Neighborhood bans Christmas wreath

[DrummerDeanna]

I don't even know what to say about this....I mean..it's a freakin' PEACE sign :distress:

HOA bans Christmas wreath

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5172922,00.html

By Robert Weller, Associated Press
November 27, 2006
PAGOSA SPRINGS - In a town in scenic southwestern Colorado homeowners are battling over whether a Christmas wreath that includes a peace sign is an anti-Iraq war protest or even a promotion of Satan.
"We have had three or four complaints. Some people have kids in Iraq and they are sensitive," said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He also said some believe it is a symbol of Satan.

Jeff Heitz, of the association board, sent a letter to Lisa Jensen saying: "Loma Linda residents are offended by the peace sign displayed on the front of your house. ... This Board will not allow any signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive...."

The subdivision's convenants say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

When Kearns ordered the association's architectural control committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath removed, they refused. Jack Lilly, chairman of the group, said it decided it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Lilly also said he had received no complaints from homeowners. Kearns fired all five members of the committee.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," said Kearns in a telephone interview Sunday. Earlier another homeowner had complied when required to take down a peace sign that was made of a pie plate held up by two skis.

Jensen, a past president of the association in the subdivision of 200 homes 270 miles southwest of Denver, said: "I honestly wasn't thinking of the Iraq war. Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing. I am not going to take it down until after Christmas. Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied. What if they don't like my Santa Claus."

Kearns said the association will fine Jensen $25 a day for every day it remains up. She calculates that will cost her about $1,000, although she doubts they will be able to make her pay.

Kearns, meanwhile, also said he was concerned about the pagan symbolism of the peace sign. "It's also an anti-Christ sign. That's how it started," he told the Durango Herald.


http://mas.scripps.com/DRMN/2006/11/27/112706wreath_o.jpg

[chiliD]

How about putting up a sign that says "Bob Kearns Is A Child Molester"?

Remember that X-Files episode where Mulder & Scully go undercover in a housing tract as "Rob & Laura Petrie"?

[carrie721]

holy crap. this is like something out of 1984 ...

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

[SuzeQuze]

This is not an anti-Christ symbol. The peace symbol was designed in '58 for nuclear disarmament. This anti-peace wreath dude seems to be yet another example of a paranoid Christian fundamentalist.

It was designed in 1958 by Gerald Holtom, a professional designer and artist and a graduate of the Royal College of Arts. He showed his preliminary sketches to a small group of people in the Peace News office in North London and to the Direct Action Committee Against Nuclear War, one of several smaller organisations that came together to set up CND.

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/~lcushing/addpages/PeaceSymbolArticle.html

[DrummerDeanna]

This is not an anti-Christ symbol. The peace symbol was designed in '58 for nuclear disarmament. This anti-peace wreath dude seems to be yet another example of a paranoid Christian fundamentalist.

:nod: the odd thing is though - so many buy into the anti-Christ significance of the Peace Sign because..."it looks like an inverted cross" My sister told me that once when she went througha Fundie phase....and I didn't care..nor did I believe it...because well, it's bogus.

This story just makes me sad...it also reminds me of the Simpsons with Mulder and Scully...and the "alien" "I bring you love..." ..."it brings us love...lets kill it!!!!" or something to that effect :distress: This story is just a sad commentary on what is going on today...

And I'm glad that the person is keeping the wreath up.

[estranged4life]

and almost posted it.


People who are offended by a peace sign are just plain dumb.

[rbs3676]

Things like this floor me. There are so many other things to worry about...

rbs

[SuzeQuze]

:nod: the odd thing is though - so many buy into the anti-Christ significance of the Peace Sign because..."it looks like an inverted cross" My sister told me that once when she went througha Fundie phase....and I didn't care..nor did I believe it...because well, it's bogus.

This story just makes me sad...it also reminds me of the Simpsons with Mulder and Scully...and the "alien" "I bring you love..." ..."it brings us love...lets kill it!!!!" or something to that effect :distress: This story is just a sad commentary on what is going on today...

And I'm glad that the person is keeping the wreath up.

I am too and I wouldn't be surprised if people start sending them money to help pay that fine.

It does not look like an upside down cross either. Unless you twist it, which fundies usually do.

[carrie721]

I am too and I wouldn't be surprised if people start sending them money to help pay that fine.

It does not look like an upside down cross either. Unless you twist it, which fundies usually do.

oh snap!

i was thinking the same thing about ppl sending in money ... it's only a matter of time before that paypal acct gets started!

[DrummerDeanna]

oh snap!

i was thinking the same thing about ppl sending in money ... it's only a matter of time before that paypal acct gets started!

Yea for you listening to The Beatles :blob1:

Sorry...erm back to the topic at hand...it's a $1,000 fine - I bet they could raise that in no time at all....the more I think of this story the more disgusted I get. ugh.


And here's more to why these people think the peace sign is actually a satanic symbol....oy...
http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm

[SuzeQuze]

...
And here's more to why these people think the peace sign is actually a satanic symbol....oy...
http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm

:lol: I love being lumped in with radicals and Satanists.

There are many statements in quotes with no source cited. Interesting. :nod:

[DrummerDeanna]

:lol: I love being lumped in with radicals and Satanists.

There are many statements in quotes with no source cited. Interesting. :nod:

I know..isn't it great :D

Yeah - it's all rather ambiguous where it comes from...and I think mostly the fundamentalists have twisted things to fit their means. Surprise surprise.

I was just reading this weekend why the Catholic Church (and others) are against contraception...the Bible verses used and their reasoning is so twisted I don't know how anyone wraps their head around it...it made no sense and had me laughing/being disgusted...

Pretty much anything can be twisted to defend any means....and to say that a sign of peace is satanic..give me a freakin' break.

[estranged4life]

And here's more to why these people think the peace sign is actually a satanic symbol....oy...
http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm

to how the Nazi's STOLED the swazstika from the Native Americans and distorted its true meaning (To most Indian tribes the swazstika is a sign of "good luck", so much so that the 45th Infantry had the swazstika as their shield, until WWII)

As for symbol's that can be considered "Satanic", I have a HUGE pentagram hanging on the bedroom-About 3 feet wide. Of course it is part of a wall tapestry for Rush's "Permanent Waves" tour...Betcha the naked dude in front of the same pentagram would also be misconstrued by some durn-fool-idgits.

[SuzeQuze]

More "occult" symbols to be wary of!

http://www.radioliberty.com/Symbolsandtheirmeaning.html

:rolleyes:

[DavidMn]

People need to totally hose down.:rolleyes:

[carrie721]

Yea for you listening to The Beatles :blob1:

Sorry...erm back to the topic at hand...it's a $1,000 fine - I bet they could raise that in no time at all....the more I think of this story the more disgusted I get. ugh.


And here's more to why these people think the peace sign is actually a satanic symbol....oy...
http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm

yeah, i'm actually not a big beatles fan at all, but this book i read about the beach boys' pet sounds mentioned revolver a lot, so i decided to ... er ... "procure" it. :D

this story is pretty disgusting. if you let someone put up a peace sign, you'll have to let someone else put up a dissenting sign! FREE SPEECH O NOEZ!!!111

[DrummerDeanna]

More "occult" symbols to be wary of!

http://www.radioliberty.com/Symbolsandtheirmeaning.html

:rolleyes:

I KNEW cows were evil. :rolleyes:

And Brian - my grandma would have a complete heart attack upon seeing a pentagram hanging in someone's house. For people who've never learned for themselves what these things are and what they mean - they end up believing what they're told - and more often than not their told those things are satanic.

[DavidMn]

I KNEW cows were evil. :rolleyes:

Actually I look at them as dinner.:lol:

[SuzeQuze]

I KNEW cows were evil. :rolleyes:

And Brian - my grandma would have a complete heart attack upon seeing a pentagram hanging in someone's house. For people who've never learned for themselves what these things are and what they mean - they end up believing what they're told - and more often than not their told those things are satanic.

When I was little my friend's mother told me to run from any house with one. I told my mother and she said that was horsesh*t. :laugh:

Part of being a zealot is being dogmatic so fundamentalists just don't think critically about what they are told. They just believe what they're told by their ministers as if the info were handed down directly from God. I find that so frightening.

[estranged4life]

:lol: I love being lumped in with radicals and Satanists.


I know Satanists, and they seem moreso honest & open-minded than non-Satanists I know (And NO (!!!) they dont kill animals whatsoever-True Satanists never harm another living thing).

As for radicals, I've been one since I can remember...I still laugh at being called to the principal's office in high school for signing the letter "A" in my name as the Anarchy sign. My Mom went off on the principal for wasting her time with something so benign, And I still occassionally sign the letter "A" as the Anarchy sign just to po the squares & relig-a-tards in this hellhole town.


Brian "I flash the peace sign all the time...and when I'm pissed I flash the half peace sign, with the index finger down & middle finger GREATLY extended" j.

[DavidMn]

I know Satanists, and they seem moreso honest & open-minded than non-Satanists I know (And NO (!!!) they dont kill animals whatsoever-True Satanists never harm another living thing).

As for radicals, I've been one since I can remember...I still laugh at being called to the principal's office in high school for signing the letter "A" in my name as the Anarchy sign. My Mom went off on the principal for wasting her time with something so benign, And I still occassionally sign the letter "A" as the Anarchy sign just to po the squares & relig-a-tards in this hellhole town.


Brian "I flash the peace sign all the time...and when I'm pissed I flash the half peace sign, with the index finger down & middle finger GREATLY extended" j.Speaking of Satanic and music, I watched thig special on Metal music on VH1 Classic the other night. It was quite fasciniating. Especially the Black Metal from Norway.

[carrie721]

Brian "I flash the peace sign all the time...and when I'm pissed I flash the half peace sign, with the index finger down & middle finger GREATLY extended" j.

LOL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

the half-peace sign. i'm going to start calling it that now. :lol:

[DrummerDeanna]

I still can't get behind actual practicing satanits :sorry: That one is too far ingrained into me...no way.

But yes, I find it frightening that many take what they're told as absolute truth...and don't bother to find any truth or real meaning behind it...sad.

And Carrie--you're a Decemberists fan?

What do you think of Revolver??

[carrie721]

I still can't get behind actual practicing satanits :sorry: That one is too far ingrained into me...no way.

But yes, I find it frightening that many take what they're told as absolute truth...and don't bother to find any truth or real meaning behind it...sad.

And Carrie--you're a Decemberists fan?

What do you think of Revolver??

yeah, i like the decemberists! i only have picaresque and the tain, tho, so i haven't heard a lot of their stuff. i only got to hear a little bit of revolver before i got kicked off the other computer (mom's a whore). what i heard included eleanor rigby & yellow submarine, and who could dislike those? i'll try to listen to the rest tonight.

[DrummerDeanna]

yeah, i like the decemberists! i only have picaresque and the tain, tho, so i haven't heard a lot of their stuff. i only got to hear a little bit of revolver before i got kicked off the other computer (mom's a whore). what i heard included eleanor rigby & yellow submarine, and who could dislike those? i'll try to listen to the rest tonight.

Eh Yellow Submarine isn't one of my favorites (but Ringo's stuff..though fun..is always the weakest). Picaresque is great - I just got their newest cd but I've yet to listen to it. They're just so different...I enjoy them

They were in Denver the night after Lindsey I was so mad that I missed them :(

Oh well...anyway..peace man :p

[estranged4life]

Speaking of Satanic and music, I watched thig special on Metal music on VH1 Classic the other night. It was quite fasciniating. Especially the Black Metal from Norway.

crack me up....They're as phony as all the hip-hop gang bangers & emo kids here in the States. Those "Black Metal" acts are the biggest poseurs in metal since the rap-metal bands of the late 90's/early 2000's ("Let's burn down a church to show how real we are"...Would it be better to make sure the church is full of people first?)

I prefer "Viking Metal" (With lyrics based off Norse history & mythology. Amon Amarth is my current favorite "Viking Metal" band) and melodic death metal (No Satanic lyrics!!! I love Opeth, Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy & Evergrey) over "Black Metal", though I do like Behemoth (Nothing stranger than being a black/death metal band from Poland!)

[DavidMn]

crack me up....They're as phony as all the hip-hop gang bangers & emo kids here in the States. Those "Black Metal" acts are the biggest poseurs in metal since the rap-metal bands of the late 90's/early 2000's ("Let's burn down a church to show how real we are"...Would it be better to make sure the church is full of people first?)

I prefer "Viking Metal" (With lyrics based off Norse history & mythology. Amon Amarth is my current favorite "Viking Metal" band) and melodic death metal (No Satanic lyrics!!! I love Opeth, Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy & Evergrey) over "Black Metal", though I do like Behemoth (Nothing stranger than being a black/death metal band from Poland!)Yeah but they do burn down churches which really disturbed me. Oh and incidentally they picked Obituary as the most intense metal band.

[Für Elise]

to how the Nazi's STOLED the swazstika from the Native Americans and distorted its true meaning (To most Indian tribes the swazstika is a sign of "good luck", so much so that the 45th Infantry had the swazstika as their shield, until WWII)the swastika is indian though. the native americans adopted it but its mainly known as a hindu symbol apart from the nazi association.

[Für Elise]

Eh Yellow Submarine isn't one of my favorites (but Ringo's stuff..though fun..is always the weakest). but that a paul mccartney song :shrug:

[estranged4life]

Yeah but they do burn down churches which really disturbed me. Oh and incidentally they picked Obituary as the most intense metal band.

and laughed at the morons they showed who were proud of burning down a church.

However, Part of what they said made some sense to me, some of the people of the Scandanavian countries feel the Catholic Church was forced upon them and they (The youth) are finally retaliating by declaring war upon the church. Maybe because I live in Oklahoma I can understand their point, Since Christianity was forced upon the Native population up until the 1950's-But now the Native population's are finally rebelling and bringing back their beliefs (Along with their languages, which are almost extinct) which has the immoral majority up in arms-"Oh we gave those dirty savages Christ and now they denounce him...boo-hoo"

As for Obituary (From that haven of death bands Flor-i-DUH!!!), they used to be the heaviest/fastest band around...Now they sound as fast and as heavy as ME-tallica (That's ME as in "Lars, Lars, Lars")...Obituary's no longer the intense band as they were back in the height of their career in the late 80's/early 90's.

[DrummerDeanna]

but that a paul mccartney song :shrug:

Right..but Ringo did lead vocals...therefore I always think of it as a Ringo tune...

[estranged4life]

the swastika is indian though. the native americans adopted it but its mainly known as a hindu symbol apart from the nazi association.

forgot that it was a Hindu symbol first. You still see it alot here in Oklahoma, But not used in a racist way.

[mikeschmike]

The "banners" have such ridiculous logic behind their decision. I'm surprised no one has played the France card yet.

[Nixxxed]

If I were Ms. Jensen, I'd put up five more. Six is such an evil evil number.

Homeowner Associations should be outlawed.

[gldstwmn]

They live in a covenant controlled community unfortunately. And when you buy the property you also say you are going to abide by the covenants. They're usually pretty loosely defined so they can get away with this kind of crap. I used to live in a covenant controlled community and used to get notices when my sliding screen door was off the tracks, which was any time the wind blew. They also wouldn't allow me to have my daughter's bike on the patio. They suck.
Now if this were in Boulder, no one would bat an eye. But southern Colorado is a whole different thing. But there's probably some freeper living in the neighborhood who thinks them damn hippies are displaying their peace sign and not suppporting our troops and blah, blah, blah. It's amazing and interesting and perplexing the diversity of life in a few hundred miles.

[gldstwmn]

The "banners" have such ridiculous logic behind their decision. I'm surprised no one has played the France card yet.

You know that one's comin'.

[markolas]

the swastika is indian though. the native americans adopted it but its mainly known as a hindu symbol apart from the nazi association.

It's also a Buddhist symbol. Statues of Shakyamuni often have a swastika on his chest; it symbolizes eternity.

[DrummerDeanna]

They live in a covenant controlled community

That just sounds scary...I don't think I've heard of that...covenant controlled...yikes. And yeah...so were you constantly under a microscope? that's what it sounds like...yuck..it IS like that Laura and Rob Petrie episode of the X-Files :eek:

[carrie721]

That just sounds scary...I don't think I've heard of that...covenant controlled...yikes. And yeah...so were you constantly under a microscope? that's what it sounds like...yuck..it IS like that Laura and Rob Petrie episode of the X-Files :eek:

HOLY CRAP you read my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"woman, get in there and make me a sam-wich!"

:laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

HOLY CRAP you read my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"woman, get in there and make me a sam-wich!"

:laugh:

lol..I wouldn't have even thought of that except ChiliD brought it up :laugh: But I love that episode...and those "covenant neighborhoods" or whatever are totally what that ep was making fun of.

[carrie721]

lol..I wouldn't have even thought of that except ChiliD brought it up :laugh: But I love that episode...and those "covenant neighborhoods" or whatever are totally what that ep was making fun of.

oh, damn, i totally missed his post. sorry, chili! i think the sinister-ness of the people in charge of the neighborhood in that ep is only a slight exaggeration of reality. :D

[DrummerDeanna]

oh, damn, i totally missed his post. sorry, chili! i think the sinister-ness of the people in charge of the neighborhood in that ep is only a slight exaggeration of reality. :D

Totally...of course is this wreath-bearer winds up missing or dead then we'll have to call in Mulder and Scully...:p

[carrie721]

screw mulder. i'd love to play house with scully. :cool: :angel:

[DrummerDeanna]

screw mulder. i'd love to play house with scully. :cool: :angel:

Well ok...I'll screw Mulder..no prob....that'll free Scully up to hang with you :nod: It all works out in the end.

[carrie721]

Well ok...I'll screw Mulder..no prob....that'll free Scully up to hang with you :nod: It all works out in the end.

ba-zing! :laugh:

is your comment about scully hanging with me supposed to be some jab about autoerotic asphyxiation? because whatever you've heard isn't true. :p :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

ba-zing! :laugh:

is your comment about scully hanging with me supposed to be some jab about autoerotic asphyxiation? because whatever you've heard isn't true. :p :laugh:

:lol: You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than autoerotic asphyxiation. :p

[carrie721]

:lol: You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than autoerotic asphyxiation. :p

:laugh:

we're sick people, dee.

:laugh:

[irishgrl]

to how the Nazi's STOLED the swazstika from the Native Americans and distorted its true meaning (To most Indian tribes the swazstika is a sign of "good luck", so much so that the 45th Infantry had the swazstika as their shield, until WWII)

As for symbol's that can be considered "Satanic", I have a HUGE pentagram hanging on the bedroom-About 3 feet wide. Of course it is part of a wall tapestry for Rush's "Permanent Waves" tour...Betcha the naked dude in front of the same pentagram would also be misconstrued by some durn-fool-idgits.
actually Brian, that cross is older than the Native American usage....

The Swastika is persistently associated with the sacredfire-sticks. Agni was the god of the fire-stick (swastika).

In Great Britain it was calledfylfot from the Anglo- Saxonfower-fot-four footed or many footed. The Druids were said to have shaped their trees in the form of the swastika or fylfot cross.

The Swastika was the cross of the Manicheans and was their sale symbol. During the second and third centuries the swastika was the only form of cross used by the Christians.

The swastika touched everywhere, and wherever it appeared, like the wheel, it was looked upon as the symbolical representation of solar energy. The swastika with its 'bent arms poised for flight' was the symbol of motion, good fortune, long life, and has been looked upon from earliest times as a charm or amulet that brings good luck.
http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/V/b/8/ancientpagan58.jpg

The Nazi's reversed the pagan cross, and perverted its meaning too.

here is another blurb:
The swastika is an archetypal, universal human religious symbol. It appears on every continent and is as old as humankind. A marker of the sun's travels, it can be seen on Pictish rock carvings, adorning ancient Greek pottery, and on ancient Norse weapons and implements. It was scratched on cave walls in France seven thousand years ago. A swastika marks the beginning of many Buddhist scriptures, and is often inciused on the soles of the feet of the Buddha in statuary. In the Jain religion, it is a symbol of the seventh Jina (Saint), the Tirthankara Suparsva. To Native Americans, the swastika is a symbol of the sun, the four directions, and the four seasons.


in short, many cultures have used this symbol (its an archetype) however its use in the ancient European/Middle Eastern/Asian cultures predated the Ancient American usage.
and the Nazi's borrowed it from the European cultures not the Native American as you assert.... :sorry:


this link (http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsswastika.htm) gives a very thorough discussion of the symbol across all the various cultures that have used it.

here's more:
The Swastika has been in use by humans since prehistory. The word Swastika has its roots in Sanskrit, the language of ancient India, but the actual symbol is older. Swastikas have been found on vases, coins, and other artifacts all over the world. Various cultures that probably didn't communicate used swastikas or similar symbols independent of each other. The Swastika has been a Hindu symbol for thousands of years.

Perhaps the Swastika is an archetypal image in man's collective unconscious (as described by Carl Jung).. another words, the human brain tends to have an affinity for the swastika and similar shapes.

The Nazi use of the swastika has stained the symbol's reputation for a long damned time. Hitler's adoption of the swastika is logical when looked at in a historical context.

A few German magical groups in the late 1800's started to adopt the swastika. The symbol was the pagan sign for the German Thunder God Donner (or Thor). Wilhelm Schwaner displayed a swastika on the title page of "Der Volkserzieher" in 1897, an early "volkisch" periodical. These periodicals were designed to instill their readers with German and Nordic pride. After this, the Swastika started to appear often on Volkisch periodicals and other items meant to signify racial and national pride.

The German generation that fought in World War I saw swastikas. After World War I, the swastika was taken up by dissident and militant groups, and its darker implications started to develop. Dr. Friedrich Krohn designed the classic Nazi Swastika in 1919. Unlike the rest of Germany, Dr. Krohn acknowledged the ancient Buddhist use of the symbol, and argued that the Nazi Swastika should point "anti-clock-wise" because to Buddhists this signifies "fortune and well-being". Hitler demanded that the Nazi Swastika point "clock-wise", which to Buddhists signifies "cessation" or "away from God".

[estranged4life]

actually Brian, that cross is older than the Native American usage....

but I am only familiar with it, outside of the Nazi's use, with Native Americans & Indians (aka People from India).

[irishgrl]

but I am only familiar with it, outside of the Nazi's use, with Native Americans & Indians (aka People from India).
ok, fair enough....I myself am familiar with it both as a sanskrit symbol and as a celtic/druidic symbol, but as the articles pointed out, it is an archetype, an icon/symbol common to many (if not all!) cultures. Im not disputing the Native American usage, rather I wanted to correct your misunderstanding that Hitler "borrowed" it from the Native Americans.

[irishgrl]

They live in a covenant controlled community unfortunately. And when you buy the property you also say you are going to abide by the covenants. They're usually pretty loosely defined so they can get away with this kind of crap. I used to live in a covenant controlled community and used to get notices when my sliding screen door was off the tracks, which was any time the wind blew. They also wouldn't allow me to have my daughter's bike on the patio. They suck.
Now if this were in Boulder, no one would bat an eye. But southern Colorado is a whole different thing. But there's probably some freeper living in the neighborhood who thinks them damn hippies are displaying their peace sign and not suppporting our troops and blah, blah, blah. It's amazing and interesting and perplexing the diversity of life in a few hundred miles.
Personally, I think I'd be reading all them CCR's pretty darn closely, and looking for the loophole. Next I'd be schlepping over to the local law library and looking up recent caselaw regarding homeowner's associations and what they CAN and CANT do. Yep. thats what I'd be doing :nod:

[estranged4life]

ok, fair enough....I myself am familiar with it both as a sanskrit symbol and as a celtic/druidic symbol, but as the articles pointed out, it is an archetype, an icon/symbol common to many (if not all!) cultures. Im not disputing the Native American usage, rather I wanted to correct your misunderstanding that Hitler "borrowed" it from the Native Americans.

but Natives of this state seem to think Hitler stole it from them (The same goes for the thunderbird)....I just typed what is always said about the swazstika is all.

[irishgrl]

but Natives of this state seem to think Hitler stole it from them (The same goes for the thunderbird)....I just typed what is always said about the swazstika is all.
ok......I guess I cant blame them for feeling that way, when so much else was stolen from them........(that doesnt make them right in this instance, but I cant blame them for feeling that way....)

as for the Thunderbird.....thats a new one, I havent seen the Thunderbird used anywhere else but by the Native Americans...I know that there is such a thing as a Phoenix in other cultures but I wasnt aware that they were one and the same :shrug:

[estranged4life]

as for the Thunderbird.....thats a new one, I havent seen the Thunderbird used anywhere else but by the Native Americans...I know that there is such a thing as a Phoenix in other cultures but I wasnt aware that they were one and the same :shrug:

the German 'Iron Eagle' crest (Slayer uses a similar image as a logo-Which is the same one the Nazi's used. Interesting that guitarist Jeff Hanneman collects German/WW2 memoribilia), which was featured on WWII propaganda posters? Natives considered that a ripoff of the thunderbird.

Here is a picture of the "Iron Eagle":

<div align=center><img src="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/TSHIRTS/SLA2011~Slayer-Eagle-Tee-Posters.jpg"></div>

[gldstwmn]

That just sounds scary...I don't think I've heard of that...covenant controlled...yikes. And yeah...so were you constantly under a microscope? that's what it sounds like...yuck..it IS like that Laura and Rob Petrie episode of the X-Files :eek:

Pretty much anything with a homeowners association is going to have covenants. I think it's the word that's freaking you out. It's not as sinister as it sounds. Anyone who lives in a condo, townhome, gated community or co op knows what I'm talking about.

[gldstwmn]

Personally, I think I'd be reading all them CCR's pretty darn closely, and looking for the loophole. Next I'd be schlepping over to the local law library and looking up recent caselaw regarding homeowner's associations and what they CAN and CANT do. Yep. thats what I'd be doing :nod:

I'd bet my last nickel someone actually is doing that in this case. She's willing to take the fine so you know she's also willing to fight it in court. They specifically referred to signs, flags and banners and IMO, this is none of those. It's a holiday decoration. Like she said, what are they going to do next? Tell her that her Santa Claus display is offending someone and take it down? Nope, I don't think this one will fly in court. The president of the HOA seems like a real horses ass.

[irishgrl]

I'd bet my last nickel someone actually is doing that in this case. She's willing to take the fine so you know she's also willing to fight it in court. They specifically referred to signs, flags and banners and IMO, this is none of those. It's a holiday decoration. Like she said, what are they going to do next? Tell her that her Santa Claus display is offending someone and take it down? Nope, I don't think this one will fly in court. The president of the HOA seems like a real horses ass.
yeah, firing all five members of that committee when they didnt give the decision he wanted them to.........the guy's an uber patriot, Im thinking...(and a fundie, that goes without saying....)

[irishgrl]

the German 'Iron Eagle' crest (Slayer uses a similar image as a logo-Which is the same one the Nazi's used. Interesting that guitarist Jeff Hanneman collects German/WW2 memoribilia), which was featured on WWII propaganda posters? Natives considered that a ripoff of the thunderbird.

Here is a picture of the "Iron Eagle":

<div align=center><img src="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/TSHIRTS/SLA2011~Slayer-Eagle-Tee-Posters.jpg"></div>
Brian that Eagle doesnt remind me of any Thunderbird image I've ever seen....
Lots of regimes have used the Eagle as a symbol, Rome, the US.....

here are some clips of what I think of when I think of the Thunderbird:
http://www.imajlar.com/free_clipart/native_american_clipart/thunderbird_clipart.gif

http://imagescommerce.bcentral.com/merchantfiles/4508723/art692.jpg

the image you posted looks like the Imperial Eagle the romans used:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Seese/images/Roman%20eagle.jpg

this one is French, Napoleon used it:

http://www.napoleonguide.com/images/eagle.jpg

in short, I guess Im not seeing the connection?

[estranged4life]

Brian that Eagle doesnt remind me of any Thunderbird image I've ever seen....
Lots of regimes have used the Eagle as a symbol, Rome, the US.....

in short, I guess Im not seeing the connection?

but I have heard the complaints countless times (I live only 1/4th a mile from the Kiowa Indian Tribal Complex-the Kiowa's are hardcore in their beliefs on anything from their past and anything similarly connected to WWII. Hell, they tell me I'm not Indian because I have Irish blood!!!)


Btw, The news showed that the convenant has backed off their request to remove the peace sign (After national media coverage...Hmm, I wonder why) so the peace sign can now stay and the lady wont have to pay any fine.

The convenant said it was "all a misunderstanding".

[gldstwmn]

yeah, firing all five members of that committee when they didnt give the decision he wanted them to.........the guy's an uber patriot, Im thinking...(and a fundie, that goes without saying....)

Mmmmm. I was thinking more of the time when Nixon fired Archibald Cox. Damn Capricorns. Good or bad, they're always on my mind.

[gldstwmn]

Btw, The news showed that the convenant has backed off their request to remove the peace sign (After national media coverage...Hmm, I wonder why) so the peace sign can now stay and the lady wont have to pay any fine.

The convenant said it was "all a misunderstanding".

Yup. And you can look for that HOA president to go bye bye real soon. See Mary, just like Watergate! :laugh:

[sara1998]

Pretty much anything with a homeowners association is going to have covenants. I think it's the word that's freaking you out. It's not as sinister as it sounds. Anyone who lives in a condo, townhome, gated community or co op knows what I'm talking about.

I live in one. They're not that bad. Unless you get a real ass in there. I have had my dog pen up for 3.5 years now, and we're not allowed to have them. I never asked, I just put it up. Sometimes, it's better to ask forgivness then permission. And no one has said a word about it either. I have to ask to put up a satellite dish, a swingset for Sara, fences, and the fences have to be a certin color. It is bull**** sometimes, but for the most part, they're there to protect the homeowner. Unless you get an ass in there..... :laugh:

[carrie721]

I live in one. They're not that bad. Unless you get a real ass in there. I have had my dog pen up for 3.5 years now, and we're not allowed to have them. I never asked, I just put it up. Sometimes, it's better to ask forgivness then permission. And no one has said a word about it either. I have to ask to put up a satellite dish, a swingset for Sara, fences, and the fences have to be a certin color. It is bull**** sometimes, but for the most part, they're there to protect the homeowner. Unless you get an ass in there..... :laugh:

how do they protect the homeowner? i'm not being a jerk, i'm just curious.

[strandinthewind]

how do they protect the homeowner? i'm not being a jerk, i'm just curious.

If someone wants to paint their house burnt orange and put pink flamingos in the yard and then put up totem poles and foil their windows, that will cause the neighbors' houses to depreciate in value.

Note - any convenant must still adhere to the law. In other words, they cannot exclude black people, etc.

[sara1998]

how do they protect the homeowner? i'm not being a jerk, i'm just curious.

No cars on blocks... no excess junk in the front yard (meaning trash storage, junk pile), you have to keep your lawn mowed. This is so your house - that may be very well kept up - don't look like **** because of your neighbor. Who wants to live next to a slob? I mean, they can get pretty over the top with their placement of satellite dishes, the color of your fence, and storage sheds... I couldn't put up any ol' swing set for Sara, I had to buy a wooden one. The association dosen't allow metal ones. :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

No cars on blocks... no excess junk in the front yard (meaning trash storage, junk pile), you have to keep your lawn mowed. This is so your house - that may be very well kept up - don't look like **** because of your neighbor. Who wants to live next to a slob? I mean, they can get pretty over the top with their placement of satellite dishes, the color of your fence, and storage sheds... I couldn't put up any ol' swing set for Sara, I had to buy a wooden one. The association dosen't allow metal ones. :shrug:

Do they allow Spam cans in the recycle bins? :lol:

[sara1998]

Do they allow Spam cans in the recycle bins? :lol:
Tee hee hee... well, they allow the neighbors across the street to let their old newspapers sit underneath their mailbox for months at a time. Pisses me off....

[DrummerDeanna]

Yeah--it's the word "covenant" that freaks me out...it just sounds so...intense for neighborhood rules.

In reality, I don't think they're entirely bad - for reasons Maria has outlined etc...like I would gladly move into a neighborhood that prohibited excessively loud bass...:D

Anyway - glad they backed off of this lady - the whole peace sign thing is completely ridiculous.

[gldstwmn]

In reality, I don't think they're entirely bad - for reasons Maria has outlined etc...like I would gladly move into a neighborhood that prohibited excessively loud bass...:D

.

I live in a neighborhood where a noise ordinance is in effect. I still hear the bass, though usually only on Friday or Saturday nights. :lol:

[sara1998]

like I would gladly move into a neighborhood that prohibited excessively loud bass...:D

Well, I have asshole who lives down the street who insists on driving at least 45 mph down the street and thumping his crappy bass... sounds like the trunk is going to fall right off the back of his car. I hope to hell he wrecks that thing or it gets stolen.

[golddustwoman77]

:confused: This is the most insane thing that I have ever heard. Christmas is the season of "peace on earth and goodwill toward men." A peace sign just exhibits that thought. Besides, who doesn't want peace!? I think it is the perfect wreath. I don't see how this community could confuse peace and being anti-Iraq. I mean are these other neighbors pro-war and anti-peace?! I hope she leaves it up the whole season and doesn't pay the fine. Crazy!:rolleyes:

[skcin]

If someone wants to paint their house burnt orange and put pink flamingos in the yard and then put up totem poles and foil their windows, that will cause the neighbors' houses to depreciate in value.



When were you at my house? :shrug:

[cliffdweller]

Would it be better to make sure the church is full of people first?)


Please don't supply them with MORE stupid ideas, Brian :rolleyes: :p

Opeth is definitely (by far) the best band to come out of the black metal scene. They are so f'ing good I can't stand it. And live? Don't get me started! They are amazing!

[estranged4life]

Please don't supply them with MORE stupid ideas, Brian :rolleyes: :p

Opeth is definitely (by far) the best band to come out of the black metal scene. They are so f'ing good I can't stand it. And live? Don't get me started! They are amazing!

for a band from the black metal scene, they have melody and dont play at speeds that require the drummer to do "blast beats".

For some reason Opeth's "Ghost Reveries" has parts that remind me of the Fleetwood Mac album "Bare Trees", Maybe it is the quiet parts when Mikael (Akerfeldt-Lead singer/Guitars/Mellotron) sings in a clean voice :shrug:

"Ghost Reveries", by far was the best album I have heard by anyone the past 2 years. A Legendary album!!! (Favorite tracks-"Beneath the Mire", "Hours of Wealth" and "The Grand Conjuration")

I also agree they are mindblowing live, basically blew the other bands at this years Gigantour off the stage (Megadeth, Arch Enemy, Lamb of God & Overkill)

[strandinthewind]

When were you at my house? :shrug:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[irishgrl]

Yup. And you can look for that HOA president to go bye bye real soon. See Mary, just like Watergate! :laugh:
Well, at least its a happy ending ya know?

ALL WE ARE SAAAAAAAAAYING, IS GIVE PEACE A CHANCE........