Screw Butterball

[jannieC]

I just sent out an email to a few people about eating turkey on Thanksgiving. I am not trying to get anyone to become a vegetarian, I'm just asking that for this holiday season, please take a minute to think about how your food got on your plate. Go <a href="http://goveg.com">here</a> to learn more about a recent investigation involving Butterball Turkeys. WARNING: Extremely graphic video, but worth the watch.

[amber]

Not gonna watch it, no way, but it's certainly easy enough to pick up an organic/free range Turkey instead of the regular kind, if you don't want to eschew turkey altogether. Side benefit, it almost certainly tastes better.

Sorry I couldn't watch.

[michelle2677]

I think that is one of the worst things I have seen. I am sick now. I want to take that guy, throw his legs in those shackles and cut his balls off. :distress:

and this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason I love animals and hate people (most people).

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

I didn't watch it - if it's anything like a chicken video I watched a while back then I don't want to.

AND I read the article on the page about what they do to these turkeys..it's just sick.

I'm with Michelle...this is why I also hate (most) people...

[michelle2677]

^^

I didn't watch it - if it's anything like a chicken video I watched a while back then I don't want to.

AND I read the article on the page about what they do to these turkeys..it's just sick.

I'm with Michelle...this is why I also hate (most) people...


I watched the KFC one and I haven't eaten there since. I think they are both about equal in cruelty.

[DrummerDeanna]

I watched the KFC one and I haven't eaten there since. I think they are both about equal in cruelty.

:nod: That's the one I watched - plus I watched one about an egg farm in New York...all I have to see if the beak seering and I lose it...I can't stand watching it....

And I just found out that a gal I work with used to have a job in a chicken farm - and she was the one who seered the beaks off :eek: I don't think I could live with myself...and judging by their faces and shrieks when it happens, I don't buy that they can't feel anything...

[michelle2677]

:nod: That's the one I watched - plus I watched one about an egg farm in New York...all I have to see if the beak seering and I lose it...I can't stand watching it....

And I just found out that a gal I work with used to have a job in a chicken farm - and she was the one who seered the beaks off :eek: I don't think I could live with myself...and judging by their faces and shrieks when it happens, I don't buy that they can't feel anything...

they didn't show that in this video (turkeys) but it was pretty bad. What did you SAY when she told you she did that? I wouldn't be able to hide my disgust.

[DrummerDeanna]

they didn't show that in this video (turkeys) but it was pretty bad. What did you SAY when she told you she did that? I wouldn't be able to hide my disgust.

Well she was saying something about Fried Chicken and KFC and I said that I would never eat there..and began to tell her why.

When I got to the part about the beaks she told me about her job and said, "they really can't feel anything..." then she tried to tell me how they used to do it...she pretty much described the video...

I didn't know what to say...I think I said something about how they sure looked like they could feel it...and I sort of went about my work :distress:

The little article about the turkeys described horrible acts toward these birds - if it showed any of that I just can't watch it.

[michelle2677]

Well she was saying something about Fried Chicken and KFC and I said that I would never eat there..and began to tell her why.

When I got to the part about the beaks she told me about her job and said, "they really can't feel anything..." then she tried to tell me how they used to do it...she pretty much described the video...

I didn't know what to say...I think I said something about how they sure looked like they could feel it...and I sort of went about my work :distress:

The little article about the turkeys described horrible acts toward these birds - if it showed any of that I just can't watch it.

yes. it was very degrading and humiliating. Not to mention (as I've already said) cruel. I cried. Still crying a tad...

[jannieC]

It's so awful and while I know it's really graphic, maybe a Butterball boycott will make a difference...maybe not. One of the workers sexually assaulted one of the turkeys for Christ's sake. It's sick.

[DrummerDeanna]

yes. it was very degrading and humiliating. Not to mention (as I've already said) cruel. I cried. Still crying a tad...

Ooh yeah, can't watch it - the written word was hard enough to swallow...So Butterball does this - how many other companies though? That's what freaks me out - is any meat I eat non-cruel? And there is no place in Greeley (that I've found) to get free-range meat...

I mean Butterball, KFC, Wegmans..these are big companies..and they get away with this...how many others??

I probably don't want to know.

[strandinthewind]

It always amazes me that people somehow seem to think the meat in the store just comes that way. Having essentailly grown up around the farming industry, I can assure you after awhile, slaughtering is all the same. I hate to sound that way, but you just become numb to it after awhile. I do think, however, the animals should be treated as humanely as possible, which almost always costs money ad these people do not want to spend it -- sad, very true. On the other hand, the reality is very few people are willing to pay extra for that. So, the market exists for that reason. I mean who amongst us has not bought the cheapest chicken in the supermarket when the cash was low :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

It always amazes me that people somehow seem to think the meat in the store just comes that way. Having essentailly grown up around the farming industry, I can assure you after awhile, slaughtering is all the same. I hate to sound that way, but you just become numb to it after awhile. I do think, however, the animals should be treated as humanely as possible, which almost always costs money ad these people do not want to spend it -- sad, very true. On the other hand, the reality is very few people are willing to pay extra for that. So, the market exists for that reason. I mean who amongst us has not bought the cheapest chicken in the supermarket when the cash was low :shrug:

I am aware that my meat does not just come that way - but I also don't want my meat to be treated in heinous ways...I mean there is NO excuse for a farm worker to be stomping on an animal, or inserting anything into its "areas"

There has to be a happy medium...some argue that simply slaughtering the animal for food is cruel - but well, that part is a fact of life - the slamming of birds against walls? Is not.

[HomerMcvie]

I am aware that my meat does not just come that way - but I also don't want my meat to be treated in heinous ways...I mean there is NO excuse for a farm worker to be stomping on an animal, or inserting anything into its "areas"

There has to be a happy medium...some argue that simply slaughtering the animal for food is cruel - but well, that part is a fact of life - the slamming of birds against walls? Is not.
But it's all in the mentality of these people that do these jobs. They have NO empathy for the animals. NONE. I'm not saying they're all like that, BUT, I've seen some scary ****.
Once, in high school, while roadtripping through the country in the middle of the night, one of my redneck cousins made me stop the car. I thought he had to pee. Nope, he made me stop it because he saw a possum walking down the road. He chased it down, and slit it's throat with his pocketknife. Just because.
Of course that's sick behavior. I'm only pointing out that there are alot of redneck/hillbilly types that do these jobs, that couldn't care less about any cruelty to the animals.:(

[DrummerDeanna]

But it's all in the mentality of these people that do these jobs. They have NO empathy for the animals. NONE. I'm not saying they're all like that, BUT, I've seen some scary ****.
Once, in high school, while roadtripping through the country in the middle of the night, one of my redneck cousins made me stop the car. I thought he had to pee. Nope, he made me stop it because he saw a possum walking down the road. He chased it down, and slit it's throat with his pocketknife. Just because.
Of course that's sick behavior. I'm only pointing out that there are alot of redneck/hillbilly types that do these jobs, that couldn't care less about any cruelty to the animals.:(

*shudder* I can't even imagine...and that still doesn't make it right....but you can't change the mentality of a whole huge group of people either I guess...

And many people truly believe these animals don't have feelings etc...it still makes me sad.

Aaaand...I just saw this news special about a group of kids who killed a classmate, then couldn't figure out a way to dispose of the body - so they called a classmate who was the kind of kid who tortured and cut up animals for fun...

He had no problem joining and cutting up this girl's body to hide her...people who torture ANYTHING scare the **** out of me....because it often doesn't end with just animals :distress:

[strandinthewind]

People who deliberately torture animals should be imprisoned.

As for the stuff we eat, I find it is just easier not to think about it. I could tell a million stories of the slaughterhoues, but I think we all get the idea.

[Nixxxed]

Well she was saying something about Fried Chicken and KFC and I said that I would never eat there..and began to tell her why.

When I got to the part about the beaks she told me about her job and said, "they really can't feel anything..."

That's utter bullplop. A bird's beak is one of the most sensitive areas of its body.

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/bleedingbeaks_askdrharris.htm

Excerpt (the site is about parrots, but it applies to most birds):

"BIRD BEAKS are one of nature's special creations. They are very much like our fingernails, but with supporting bone underneath. They also have germinal, or growth, tissue beneath the hard shell, which lets the beak grow in three directions - from top to tip, from center to edges and from deep to surface - unlike our nails, which grow in a flat sheet with growth tissue at the top. The germinal layer with its blood supply extends almost to the tip of the beak. This makes the beak a very sensitive organ, as well as a strong one. Consider how your bird can groom your eyelashes with the same beak he uses to crack a walnut! ... "

[DrummerDeanna]

That's utter bullplop. A bird's beak is one of the most sensitive areas of its body.

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/bleedingbeaks_askdrharris.htm

Excerpt (the site is about parrots, but it applies to most birds):

"BIRD BEAKS are one of nature's special creations. They are very much like our fingernails, but with supporting bone underneath. They also have germinal, or growth, tissue beneath the hard shell, which lets the beak grow in three directions - from top to tip, from center to edges and from deep to surface - unlike our nails, which grow in a flat sheet with growth tissue at the top. The germinal layer with its blood supply extends almost to the tip of the beak. This makes the beak a very sensitive organ, as well as a strong one. Consider how your bird can groom your eyelashes with the same beak he uses to crack a walnut! ... "

I'm so going to make her read that...I need no convincing - I'll be forever haunted by the video of the chicks getting their beaks seered off - it looked like they were in a great deal of pain...not to mention the result being malformed beaks that in many cases don't even allow them to eat...:distress:

[amber]

It always amazes me that people somehow seem to think the meat in the store just comes that way. Having essentailly grown up around the farming industry, I can assure you after awhile, slaughtering is all the same. I hate to sound that way, but you just become numb to it after awhile. I do think, however, the animals should be treated as humanely as possible, which almost always costs money ad these people do not want to spend it -- sad, very true. On the other hand, the reality is very few people are willing to pay extra for that. So, the market exists for that reason. I mean who amongst us has not bought the cheapest chicken in the supermarket when the cash was low :shrug:

Your logic is good, but it isn't that much more expensive. :shrug: I've been shopping at whole foods for a long time now, and the meat and produce is pretty comparable, a little more expensive. So, if you think about it, say the same poundage of Turkey costs...I dunno....a big turkey...maybe $5 more for free range? I'm not sure exactly how much it is, I'll check tomorrow, but I have bought a lot of ground beef from there that was free range/grass fed (corn fed traditional cows lack so much more nutrients than grass fed regular, btw, and have much more fat. They feed them corn so the cows will weigh more and they'll get more money. That is also the reason people keep food animals inactive, chained up, because if you can't move you'll be way fatter. This is also the reason why High Fructose Corn Syrup is so bad for you, and why the instance of diabetes is climbing. High Fructose Corn Syrup = Don't eat it. It's in almost everything cause it's so cheap, but don't eat it. It's worse than regular sugar. It's poison. Also, if you are really smart, you'll buy Venison or Bison meat, much leaner, less cholestrol, with all the iron, all the good stuff) and it is almost always $4-$5 a pound. :shrug: That isn't very much.
So, lets take for instance lots of people with middle, low middle, and higher incomes. I think most of those people would be able to afford the bit higher priced Turkey. You are right, currently more people will be resistant to buying it, and others won't buy it cause they don't know. Truthfully, I swear, most people here go organic or free range. Okay, a lot.
But I digress. I think many people, when they learn about the benefits to themselves and their bodies from this kind of meat as opposed to the other, and when they hear it's only a few dollars more expensive, would buy it. I mean, $5 is the cost of one cocktail, it isn't that much.

Also I think your opinion is slightly dated, just because I think more people are becoming conscious of the various factors of their food. There are always articles about it in many places. I think in some areas people may not automatically know where they can get that meat, but it can usually be found. And, you'll notice Safeway started carrying a whole organic line of food, even chicken - so it looks like people made it known that they want that choice, and Safeway responded. I have so much faith in the power of the dollar - if people tell their retailers what they want, it doesn't go unnoticed. :shrug: And it may take awhile, but if enough people say they want something, bet your ass a retailer would respond rather than losing business. Case in point, Safeway is so rich, you would think they would ignore the cry for healthier grown/prepared food. But they didn't.
So, I mean "outdated" in the sense that what you said lacks positive forward flow to the times and the tide, and supposes their are no answers and it will never work out. When in fact I have seen many instances where it works.

Another case - Round these parts, there is this heinous neighborhood called "West Oakland" and some others. They don't really have grocery stores nearby, lots of liquor stores that sell produce. So this Indian lady researched it a bit, and found out that these people want to eat healthy, and feed their kids right, but they are so poor/don't know/don't have accessible retailers/just bad poverty in that neighborhood and all the worst that comes with it.
So what she did, is she bought an old mail truck, I think, and she travels around the neighborhoods selling organic produce (which again, isn't really that expensive. A few cents more. I don't know her prices). And these people are the poorest of the poor for the most part, and they buy it, and are really happy they have easier access to it now. It may not sound like a big deal for people to go to the grocery store, but seriously, they have to ride the bus hella, hella far.

Anyway, I think what you said was true but is changing because of spread knowledge and the lowering price of these organic/etc. products, and their growing accessibility. And yes, I realize that some places are not so up to speed, and will take more time. But that doesn't mean the effort is useless. Heck, civil rights took centuries, and we're still dealing with that. It's about commitment. It's about realizing that to make things change, you have to change. Someway. Life is about knowlege and change anyway. The question becomes, as a human, if you know better, why don't you do better? If you are able, of course.

People can change, and want to, they just have to have the tools. Obviously that doesn't mean all people, and change is slow, but sometimes it's fast, and we know from looking at the history of this century and all others that human advancement can be rapid. I'm sure you'll agree with that, that advances can be made, and quickly. You are an avid consumer of these advances. :laugh:

I hope all that can spare an extra $5 or so from their budget do seek out that free range turkey. I almost guarantee it will taste way better. My ground beef does, and my organic veggies and fruits without a doubt do. Like, super delicious with the fruit.

It's just a matter of you, me, and all who can making little life choices every day. You'd be hard pressed to convince me, Strand, that you couldn't afford five extra dollars. And the same goes with me, who is hella poor. lol, I'm not singling you out, I'm just making an example with your name. I'm not having Turkey, but still. And if you, or others between yours and my income say they can't afford it - it's possible - but I would postulate that they could easily care about the fate of the world and their/their family's health for five more dollars.
Some people really can't afford it, I know, I'm not getting a Turkey (no big, as long as I have pumpkin pie with whipped cream and stuffing and gravy). But the more informed people are, and the more things that are accessible, the better choices people, as a whole, will tend to make.

It's been hard, but I made a pact to buy my produce organic, and my meat the same, and even better not buy meat at all - which can get a smidge more expensive, but not noticeably for someone who can afford to spend, say, $4 for four non meat patties at 10 oz. total, as apposed to say, a lb. of ground beef (grass fed) for $4. To me, that often makes the difference, though i usually spend more than I should on "good" food - but to the average person, that six ounce difference for the same price, considering the huge payoff, would be doable and worth it. It is basically paying an "extra" dollar for considerable health benefits. Considerable. More than 6 oz worth of health. lol. I have slipped a couple times, pretty few, I admit. Like when Safeway has a huge bag of apples for $2.50. But Whole foods usually has five Fuji or Granny Smith for $2.50, and they taste waaaay better.
Anyway, I've slipped a few times, but I usually only have $10 to $ 50 to spend each week for groceries, most often about $20 - $30. With not eating out, really. So, I'm sure most of you have more to spend, so...you know...hehehe....and for those of you with kids, I know you don't want to be feeding your kids a bunch of chemicals and hormones, while I also know that it's hard to make ends meet when you have kids. But there are cheap nutritious tasty foods, you just have to do them.

Many people doing small things add up to big things - I'm sure no one would argue with that. But converseley, without economic pressure, these corporations won't change, because they work on the bottom line. In my town, Whole Foods and Berkeley Bowl (another whole food kind of store) and Safeway are all within a few blocks of my house, I mean each other, lol. Berkeley Bowl and Whole Foods are 99 percent of the time more crowded than Safeway when i go into these stores, and I go all around the same times, in case anyone is wondering if this is a "controlled experiment" lol.
That is something a corporation won't ignore, is losing money. And it's worth it to me to pay 25 cents more for my produce when it's produced organically. Or a dollar more if the meat was free range, not in heinous shackles being overfed and not moving for their life. And it's worth even more if that meat was fed what they are supposed to eat, in an organic form, not given foods that aren't healthful, and shots to make them bigger and fight disease (organic beef growers use another method to fight disease, and don't have as much of it, just by virtue of the different way their cows are raised). I don't want that sh*t in my body, helping to cause cancer and whatever. I save that slot for beer and a few cigs!!! :laugh:
But I'm sure everyone wants what is better for them.
I'm not against eating animals for food, necessarily, although I think if you want optimal health it should be very limited. But the way our animals are processed has nothing to do with what humans, or even the animals themselves, should actually consume.

*Wait, someone sexually assaulted a Turkey?! My god. Men never cease to amaze me. And no, I'm not talking about most men who are normal and nice. I'm talking about men who sleep with babies, kids, turkeys, sheep, whatever. Apparently there is always some segment of the population who wants to do these things. Abhorrent.*

[ragandbone]

It's a horrible business, and that undercover guy is really cool for risking going in those places to take the footage.
Thanks JAnnieC for the post, as well.

I thought for a minute about the organic free-range chicken* I have been buying the family, and then I thought about how they are slaughtered all the same (as Strand pointed out) and I wished to be veg again. I was vegetarian for 12 years, but have been eating some meat for at least a decade.
*note that much of the "free-range, or "cage-free" methods have been shown top be deceptive, so you really have to research the farm

My mother's family raised chickens, primarily to sell eggs, for a number of years, and in the years I had stopped eating meat, I got my mother to give up red meat, but she claimed she didn't mind the thought of the chicken's death at all. Apparently she had grown to hate them. I was never able to change her mind.

Now, I would nver want to excuse the vile behavior of those workers in the Butterball (or other) poultry factory, but one of the things I noticed in the video was that the factory was unfit for birds, and humans. I think if we had seen a prison with the same conditions the video would have shown similarly awful violence to the prisoners, because, yes, humans are often hateful and nasty. I don't want to know what compels someone to take a job in that Hell.

I do want to know why/how I see see signs for hamburger 99cents, or even 1.99 cents—prices from my childhood in the seventies! It's agri-business: we eat too much, pay too little, and they make to much money. I have been fortunate in that I live in a county where there are many options for buying directly from farmers. It IS more expensive, in my experience.

I DO natter on, don't I?
Anyway,
this site has been really useful:
http://www.localharvest.org/

Here is a page with info about Con Agra the parent company of Butterball. There is a note about the PETA investigation, and then a list of the companies many food brands.
http://www.coopamerica.org/tools/print.cfm?page=/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=206

[irishgrl]

^^^

Sweetie, you dont know anything about nattering on! take a gander at the post before yours :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

I can't watch either but there's no way in hell I will buy a Butterball ever again. I don't mind paying extra money for a free range bird. I find this horrific. I had no idea the beaks were seared off. WTF?

People who abuse animals were likely abused/neglected at home. I'm not talking about people like your friend who believed the propoganda that they can't feel anything. But the people who deliberately mistreat the animals. Those people working with the animals are probably making 5.15 an hour right? They're taking their anger toward The Man out on those poor birds. People suck.

I think most people, if they knew what happened to these birds, would stop buying them. Although many people seem to be able to completely separate what happens to the animals when they're alive from the food they're eating, I never could. Sometimes I wish I could so I could avoid feeling so awful when I hear this stuff.

[strandinthewind]

I do not think any readily commercially available chicken is not from a debeaked bird. Maybe some of the free range stuff, but, I would still check and see because, as said earlier, slapping "free range" onto the package is all part of the advertising in some cases.

[JazmenFlowers]

as said earlier, slapping "free range" onto the package is all part of the advertising in some cases.
god I hope this isn't true. kinda like how everything is "organic" or "100% pure"...:rolleyes:

[DavidMn]

Well I want Turkey, so hopefully the other companies treat their birds better.

[bikerchic]

I love turkey! The Butterball, pre-stuffed, cooked from frozen is the best :thumbsup: Unfortunately, we Canadians have already had our Thanksgiving, so I will have to wait until Christmas.

[DrummerDeanna]

Well I want Turkey, so hopefully the other companies treat their birds better.

:laugh: I thought the same thing.

I can guarantee that my little old grandma is NOT going to get free-range turkey :rolleyes: She's probably never even HEARD of free-range turkey.

Oh - but I'm not actually going to be with family for Thanksgiving this year - I'll be with people who have kindly invited me into their home - so no clue what kind of turkey I'll be eating.

[estranged4life]

Havent celebrated Thanksgiving the past few years, not planning to celebrate it (ever) again in the future.

[estranged4life]

I can guarantee that my little old grandma is NOT going to get free-range turkey :rolleyes: She's probably never even HEARD of free-range turkey.


think 'free range turkeys' are ones that dont need to be cooked in a range or oven :rolleyes:

[SuzeQuze]

Havent celebrated Thanksgiving the past few years, not planning to celebrate it (ever) again in the future.

Because it's based on a crock of ****e? I can see that. The parade in Plymouth was canceled for years due to Native American protests but it is on again this year. It will be tomorrow and I am wondering how it will go.

[DrummerDeanna]

Because it's based on a crock of ****e? I can see that. The parade in Plymouth was canceled for years due to Native American protests but it is on again this year. It will be tomorrow and I am wondering how it will go.

I've not had a "traditional" thanksgiving in three years - I always have to work...and you know what? I haven't missed it :shrug:

My favorite part is the food - and I just buy myself a little Turkey leg or thigh or something - cook it and have my own little meal...it is based on a crock of poo....why not take any day of the year to be "thankful"

I'm thankful for everything I have every day -not just on some Thursday in November....oh and I don't like most of my family...so eh...

[SuzeQuze]

I've not had a "traditional" thanksgiving in three years - I always have to work...and you know what? I haven't missed it :shrug:

My favorite part is the food - and I just buy myself a little Turkey leg or thigh or something - cook it and have my own little meal...it is based on a crock of poo....why not take any day of the year to be "thankful"

I'm thankful for everything I have every day -not just on some Thursday in November....oh and I don't like most of my family...so eh...

I hear that. I was going to cook this year but my Mom got our signals crossed and she accepted another invitation. So I'm going with her to her BFs sister's. It was nice last year. Though not without it's abundance of dysfunction. Still, it is less than my family's!

[michelle2677]

I've not had a "traditional" thanksgiving in three years - I always have to work...and you know what? I haven't missed it :shrug:

My favorite part is the food - and I just buy myself a little Turkey leg or thigh or something - cook it and have my own little meal...it is based on a crock of poo....why not take any day of the year to be "thankful"

I'm thankful for everything I have every day -not just on some Thursday in November....oh and I don't like most of my family...so eh...


:blob1: preach it sistah!! and oh, I "enjoy" being around my family. Just for a limited time! After about an hour, the **** always hits the fan (I hope I don't get in trouble for bringing up **** again :laugh: ) and someone always gets their panties in a ruffle. Just pass the damn mashed potatoes, please!!

[DrummerDeanna]

:blob1: preach it sistah!! and oh, I "enjoy" being around my family. Just for a limited time! After about an hour, the **** always hits the fan (I hope I don't get in trouble for bringing up **** again :laugh: ) and someone always gets their panties in a ruffle. Just pass the damn mashed potatoes, please!!

Thanksgiving was never when the **** would hit the fan - we saved that for Christmas :laugh:

Oh the memories..the one year everyone found out my aunt had an abortion was memorable..my mom got slapped at that one :laugh:

[michelle2677]

Thanksgiving was never when the **** would hit the fan - we saved that for Christmas :laugh:

Oh the memories..the one year everyone found out my aunt had an abortion was memorable..my mom got slapped at that one :laugh:


:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: i can't think of anything that bad that happened and a family function. did your mom slap back??:laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: i can't think of anything that bad that happened and a family function. did your mom slap back??:laugh:

No..she was too shocked. And kind of deserved it :laugh: My aunt's abortion came out - she said "she didn't want to get fat" ...(ok so she deserved this too)...so my mom called her a bitch and got slapped :laugh:

lets see...there was the year it came out that the same aunt's brother was about to undergo a sex change (she's now prettier than any of her sisters)

The Christmas another aunt got trashed and she and her daughter hit on my sister's boyfriend to the point where he just had to leave...

The Christmas another aunt and my sister got into it....

Oh the memories...:laugh:

Thanksgiving? Nothing of note ever happened on that holiday....Christmas was where the action was!

[michelle2677]

No..she was too shocked. And kind of deserved it :laugh: My aunt's abortion came out - she said "she didn't want to get fat" ...(ok so she deserved this too)...so my mom called her a bitch and got slapped :laugh:

lets see...there was the year it came out that the same aunt's brother was about to undergo a sex change (she's now prettier than any of her sisters)

The Christmas another aunt got trashed and she and her daughter hit on my sister's boyfriend to the point where he just had to leave...

The Christmas another aunt and my sister got into it....

Oh the memories...:laugh:

Thanksgiving? Nothing of note ever happened on that holiday....Christmas was where the action was!

:shocked: I knew from a previous thread that your family was F*CKED up, but damn!!

and re: your aunt's bro getting a sex change-they were just all jealous!!! :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

:shocked: I knew from a previous thread that your family was F*CKED up, but damn!!

and re: your aunt's bro getting a sex change-they were just all jealous!!! :laugh:

:laugh: My sister and I keep threatening to write a book...the above? Just the bottom of the barrel....things really got ****ty when my uncle (the husband of abortion wife) stole my grandpa's identity and ran his dry-cleaning business into the ground....I'm totally not kidding....I think the business also became the front for a drug operation, but we've not proved that one for sure :laugh:

My family IS fu**ed up...it's a wonder my sister and I came out at all normal - but the fact that we have very little contact with them may help...

[michelle2677]

:laugh: My sister and I keep threatening to write a book...the above? Just the bottom of the barrel....things really got ****ty when my uncle (the husband of abortion wife) stole my grandpa's identity and ran his dry-cleaning business into the ground....I'm totally not kidding....I think the business also became the front for a drug operation, but we've not proved that one for sure :laugh:

My family IS fu**ed up...it's a wonder my sister and I came out at all normal - but the fact that we have very little contact with them may help...

the fact that your aunt admitted to having the abortion because she didn't want to get fat was a winner!!! Well, again. I 've said it before, but kudos to you for turning out normal.



well...semi-normal :p

[DrummerDeanna]

the fact that your aunt admitted to having the abortion because she didn't want to get fat was a winner!!! Well, again. I 've said it before, but kudos to you for turning out normal.



well...semi-normal :p

Yeah - she had an eating disorder for much of her adult life (as did her daughter -she had two kids from a previous marriage) and..another aunt of mine had one too...hmm...

Semi-normal is right - these women helped with my oh-so-healthy body image :laugh:

Eh - there are pockets of sanity in my family - and we usually huddled together at these Christmases...

The real fun part is this **** always happened during my grandma's big Christams opne-housess....so God only knows how many other families in Cruces have memories of those f**ked up Espinosa christmas parties :laugh:

[michelle2677]

Yeah - she had an eating disorder for much of her adult life (as did her daughter -she had two kids from a previous marriage) and..another aunt of mine had one too...hmm...

Semi-normal is right - these women helped with my oh-so-healthy body image :laugh:

Eh - there are pockets of sanity in my family - and we usually huddled together at these Christmases...

The real fun part is this **** always happened during my grandma's big Christams opne-housess....so God only knows how many other families in Cruces have memories of those f**ked up Espinosa christmas parties :laugh:

that's what I started thinking of. Your sister's boyfriend, etc. All the people that were NOT a part of the family. They were NOT prepared, I'm sure:distress: :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

that's what I started thinking of. Your sister's boyfriend, etc. All the people that were NOT a part of the family. They were NOT prepared, I'm sure:distress: :laugh:

Hey - if we ever all get together again - I'll drop an invite to any Ledgie who likes to see public spectacles...or maybe I'll just video tape it and post it on YouTube :p

But my prediction is the family will not be getting together in one place until one of my granparents dies...

[SuzeQuze]

Yeah - she had an eating disorder for much of her adult life (as did her daughter -she had two kids from a previous marriage) and..another aunt of mine had one too...hmm...

Semi-normal is right - these women helped with my oh-so-healthy body image :laugh:

Eh - there are pockets of sanity in my family - and we usually huddled together at these Christmases...

The real fun part is this **** always happened during my grandma's big Christams opne-housess....so God only knows how many other families in Cruces have memories of those f**ked up Espinosa christmas parties :laugh:

Alcoholism, drug addiction, and eating disorders are sisters.

My family is currently fighting sort of because my Dad doesn't want to host the family party this year. He has a very high maintenance girlfriend who probably doesn't want him to do it. I actually wouldn't mind if that party just never happened. A couple of my aunts married some real winners and I can't stand being around them.

[estranged4life]

Because it's based on a crock of ****e? I can see that. The parade in Plymouth was canceled for years due to Native American protests but it is on again this year. It will be tomorrow and I am wondering how it will go.

not the reason at all (I may be of Native blood, but I dont celebrate hardly any holidays that are either religion or racially based)...Let's say I had to visit a rather useless pile of humanity every year, and listen to her complain & use the ol "poor poor pitiful me" scenario once too often.

[SuzeQuze]

not the reason at all (I may be of Native blood, but I dont celebrate hardly any holidays that are either religion or racially based)...Let's say I had to visit a rather useless pile of humanity every year, and listen to her complain & use the ol "poor poor pitiful me" scenario once too often.

Yep, eff that nonsense!

[DrummerDeanna]

Alcoholism, drug addiction, and eating disorders are sisters.

My family is currently fighting sort of because my Dad doesn't want to host the family party this year. He has a very high maintenance girlfriend who probably doesn't want him to do it. I actually wouldn't mind if that party just never happened. A couple of my aunts married some real winners and I can't stand being around them.

I think everyone has family drama - and actually since most of my family doesn't talk to one another the drama is now relatively low (mother and sister excluded :laugh: )

But last year - and I hope again this year - my sister, brother-in-law and nephew have spent a low-key and quiet (and turkey-free) Christmas together - focusing more on the reason for the day than on gifts...it worked well for us :D

Back to the topic at hand...

I've just told some co-workers to stay away from Butterball :laugh: They all claim they always buy Jennie-O anyway :p