Election day results discussion thread

[Rickypt]

For anyone interested in discussion results as they come in.

2 1/2 hours until Ohio polls close!! And 3 hours for Connecticut and Tennessee (I think). And Pennsylvania when we can put our boot in Santorum's ass.

[DavidMn]

I heard there were problems in Maryland with some alleged voter intimidation.:mad:

[mikeschmike]

CNN lets you personalize a page to get results for any specific race. It's pretty informative. For instance, I had no idea that eight states had same sex marriage bans on the ballot this year. I have my races selected, and will be anxiously waiting to see how things turn out.

[Rickypt]

Virginia polls close at 7 pm EST, so only 1 hr. 15 min. until some results start coming in. I have to go out for a bit, but will check results on my cellphone. :nod: If they call the VA race for Webb, I'm having a celebration martini before I go home.

[DrummerDeanna]

Denver has been a MESS...Dems tried to sue the city to get the polls an extension so they'd close at 9pm...it was turned down...

The lines have been crazy and they've had computer problems all day...but it's a Democratic stronghold..I'm fearful of how this will affect results :distress:

[Nixxxed]

can'twatchresultstoonervousnomorefingernailstobiteoutofchocolatedowntomylastcigarettewakemewhenit'so ver

[DrummerDeanna]

can'twatchresultstoonervousnomorefingernailstobiteoutofchocolatedowntomylastcigarettewakemewhenit'so ver

Wow..I actually figured out what that that said :laugh:

I'm SO nervous as well...it's been crazy here...I'm on pins and needles though - but they're saying some close races may not be decided for several weeks :eek:

[ELIUD]

The exit polls are showing democrats are favored. But I am still leery about what that means. The HBO documentary about hacking voting machines was very disturbing. Hopefully if the results are tampered with, it'll be a demorat fixing the results.

[DrummerDeanna]

The exit polls are showing democrats are favored. But I am still leery about what that means. The HBO documentary about hacking voting machines was very disturbing. Hopefully if the results are tampered with, it'll be a demorat fixing the results.

Exit polls are completely unreliable as was witnessed in the 2004 election - many media outlets aren't even using them (NPR included) --and there are supposed to be all sorts of measures in place to keep those exit poll results from leaking...

So much for that :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

I heard there were problems in Maryland with some alleged voter intimidation.:mad:

There were problems in Virginia as well - people getting calls saying that they're registered somewhere else and if they vote they'll face federal charges...

People getting calls saying their polling places had changed.

The FBI is now investigating those...ugh. And with all the technology available elections are even MORE screwed up now than ever before...

[sasja]

Preliminary WHEW! on NJ and PA :woohoo: And Ohio too!

Come on, VA! ~crossing fingers~

Sasja

[Rickypt]

Dems have taken two seats in the Senate! Ohio and PA.

Bye, bye Santorum you homophobic #$@#

[ontheEdgeof17]

And with all the technology available elections are even MORE screwed up now than ever before...

I know. I get PA news on one of my channels and they were saying a whole slew of touch screens had the wrong dates on them, which, in turn, wouldn't take the voter's votes. They had to go to paper voting....which the newscaster said would take "days to count". :rolleyes:

[sasja]

I hope this will be the trend of the whole eve! :blob2:

Sasja

[DrummerDeanna]

I'm way wary of getting to optimistic too soon...

I'm sure all my joy will soon be sucked dry as I have to head to a Repub. party.

[Rickypt]

Spitzer called for NY! Not a surprise, but I like him a great deal.

[DrummerDeanna]

Spitzer called for NY! Not a surprise, but I like him a great deal.

Oh yeah - no surprise...but the man kicks ass - I would have voted for him had I stayed in NY...that kicks ass..

Now if they can ONLY unseat Tom Reynolds...though it's not likely :(

[Rickypt]

Katherine Harris losing in FL. I'm surprised the Bushies couldn't have figured out how to rig the election for her.

[Rickypt]

Lieberman projected in CT. Barf.

[estranged4life]

Only 1 election so far that has been called in Oklahoma:

Governor
Brad Henry (D) 69%
Ernest Istook (R) 21%

[Rickypt]

I didn't know Istook ran for Gov. He's a pig.

Hey! Cardin called in MD!! Go Dems.

[amber]

Katherine Harris losing in FL. I'm surprised the Bushies couldn't have figured out how to rig the election for her.

:laugh: :laugh:

Snap!

[SuzeQuze]

Exit polls are completely unreliable as was witnessed in the 2004 election - many media outlets aren't even using them (NPR included) --and there are supposed to be all sorts of measures in place to keep those exit poll results from leaking...

So much for that :laugh:

Except some think the exit polls were more reliable than the vote was. Scientifically speaking, they are more reliable. Elections have been thrown out whose exit polls did not match the count. Of course those were in other countries.

[Rickypt]

Anne Northrup gone in Kentucky!!

Dems are in for a good night!

[estranged4life]

I didn't know Istook ran for Gov. He's a pig.

(Istook, or the name I use for him: Is-Crook) left Congress, to try to be the next governor of the GREAT STATE of Oklahoma (He got smoked by Brad Henry bigtime!)

Sadly, The National Democratic party DID NOT back Dr.David Hunter to win that vacated US Congress spot against current Oklahoma Lt.Governor Mary Fallin - Looks like Dr.Hunter is getting shlacked.

Update-R.I. US Senate is called for (Democrat) Whitehouse

[amber]

Anne Northrup gone in Kentucky!!

Dems are in for a good night!

Yes, so far, and I desperately want Schwartzenegger gone, but I suspect it won't be so. :distress: Thanks a lot, central valley!!! Thanks alot, foothill rednecks! :mad: :p

[Rickypt]

CNN has called Rhode Island for the Dem!!

So Dems need 3 out of 4: Tennessee, Missouri, Virginia, Montana

[Rickypt]

Yes, so far, and I desperately want Schwartzenegger gone, but I suspect it won't be so. :distress: Thanks a lot, central valley!!! Thanks alot, foothill rednecks! :mad: :p

Yeah, Arnold's in for a big victory, but we can also blame lam-o Angelides for that. But I hope the central valley votes out redneck f*khead Pombo!

[strandinthewind]

Yes, so far, and I desperately want Schwartzenegger gone, but I suspect it won't be so. :distress: Thanks a lot, central valley!!! Thanks alot, foothill rednecks! :mad: :p

I never got all the Arnie hate - I mean he has been rather mediocre and certainly FAR from a far right winger :shrug: And, he has done some if not mostly good things though I wish a more left (as currently defined) leaning person would take the office :shrug:

[Rickypt]

I never got all the Arnie hate - I mean he has been rather mediocre and certainly FAR from a far right winger :shrug: And, he has done some if not mostly good things :shrug:

No, he's done a lot of really bad things. Like try to cut Medicaid for kids and organized a very expensive "special election" to attack nurses and teachers. He's an enigma, but not a very good Gov. He's not a right winger, though.

[irishgrl]

Exit polls are completely unreliable as was witnessed in the 2004 election - many media outlets aren't even using them (NPR included) --and there are supposed to be all sorts of measures in place to keep those exit poll results from leaking...

So much for that :laugh:
I beg to differ, exit polls ARE reliable. its DIEBOLD machines that arent reliable. plz.

oh and I read Santorum is pffft.

[ontheEdgeof17]

CNN has called Rhode Island for the Dem!!

So Dems need 3 out of 4: Tennessee, Missouri, Virginia, Montana

Looks like the Repubs might take Va. and Tennessee.

[strandinthewind]

No, he's done a lot of really bad things. Like try to cut Medicaid for kids and organized a very expensive "special election" to attack nurses and teachers. He's an enigma, but not a very good Gov. He's not a right winger, though.

But, he has done good things as well and he is far from what the far right owuld have had in there. So, I check him as a relative win.

[irishgrl]

Yes, so far, and I desperately want Schwartzenegger gone, but I suspect it won't be so. :distress: Thanks a lot, central valley!!! Thanks alot, foothill rednecks! :mad: :p
hey, I voted Angelides. dont blame me. Straight Dem ticket all the way. lessee how it goes....

[Rickypt]

But, he has done good things as well and he is far from what the far right owuld have had in there. So, I check him as a relative win.

What are the good things that he's done?

But you're right, he's not a big loss or anything. I actually voted for the Green.

[Rickypt]

Looks like the Repubs might take Va. and Tennessee.

Tennessee is probably a lost cause (I'm not a big Harold Ford fan anyway, he's a total Republican pretending to be a Dem). Looks like the uncounted votes in VA are from Webb's stronghold, though. I'm not a Webb fan either, but would like to see the Dems win both Houses.

[amber]

Yeah, Arnold's in for a big victory, but we can also blame lam-o Angelides for that. But I hope the central valley votes out redneck f*khead Pombo!

Way late, but yeah, I actually trade Pombo out for Schwartz. Pombo is evil.

[SuzeQuze]

How did you guys vote on whether a candidate can run in more than one party, if nominated, and thus be listed on the ballot more than once? Was that national? I hadn't even heard of it and I didn't have a strong opinion either way so I did not choose. It seems like a slippery slope for a lot of confusion. On the other hand we could have someone run as Green/Dem or something like that and avoid losing those votes. But then once in office are they Dem or Green? Again, slippery slope. Okay if I had written this out I would've voted no. :lol: Anyway, let me know what you think.

[SuzeQuze]

hey, I voted Angelides. dont blame me. Straight Dem ticket all the way. lessee how it goes....

We're so friggin blue here most of the local offices only had a D candidate running unopposed. I voted for them, of course. :thumbsup:

[ryan8472]

Looks like Joe-Lieb might win here in CT again. Good for him though, I can't stand Ned Lamont.

[Rickypt]

How did you guys vote on whether a candidate can run in more than one party, if nominated, and thus be listed on the ballot more than once? Was that national? I hadn't even heard of it and I didn't have a strong opinion either way so I did not choose. It seems like a slippery slope for a lot of confusion. On the other hand we could have someone run as Green/Dem or something like that and avoid losing those votes. But then once in office are they Dem or Green? Again, slippery slope. Okay if I had written this out I would've voted no. :lol: Anyway, let me know what you think.

Sounds like a state initiative. I wouldn't support anything that allowed a candidate to be in more than one party.

[Rickypt]

We're so friggin blue here most of the local offices only had a D candidate running unopposed. I voted for them, of course. :thumbsup:

Mass. is the best. :thumbsup:

[SuzeQuze]

Looks like Joe-Lieb might win here in CT again. Good for him though, I can't stand Ned Lamont.

But we need that majority so take one for the team! :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

Mass. is the best. :thumbsup:

That's how I felt leaving the polls.

[irishgrl]

Suze, to answer your question, we didnt have anything like that on our ballot in CA............

[Rickypt]

But we need that majority so take one for the team! :laugh:

Barely. Lieberman would keep this immoral war going on for decades.

[Rickypt]

That's how I felt leaving the polls.

Gay marriage....african-american governor...all Dems in House of Reps...if you had anything close to decent weather, I'd live there in a heartbeat.

[irishgrl]

Barely. Lieberman would keep this immoral war going on for decades.
besides now that Joe is Independent, I hardly think he can be counted on in Dem issues any more. I have a feeling he's gonna give Dems the finger.

[strandinthewind]

Here are some sites:


http://www.joinarnold.com/site/c.jkIVLdMTJrE/b.1805097/k.258C/The_Record.htm

http://www.dailygusto.com/news/august/arnold-082703.html

-- there are other more mainstream articles, but I thought these were somewhat clever :cool:

Again - I am not a advocate of Arnold, though I do think his personality is engaging, for what that is worth.

[ryan8472]

Barely. Lieberman would keep this immoral war going on for decades.
True, but Ned Lamont just reeked of asshole when I saw him up close in person. :rolleyes:

[Rickypt]

I do think his personality is engaging, for what that is worth.

It is. and he really hasn't been that bad...no worse than Gray Davis. But he's also done some crappy stuff that people don't pay attention to because he's so slick that he just has to say "I'm sorry" and it's all over.

[Rickypt]

True, but Ned Lamont just reeked of asshole when I saw him up close in person. :rolleyes:

Well, reeking of asshole isn't that great, but it's like:

Reeking of asshole, or immoral war in Iraq?

Wait...off to This Or That

[strandinthewind]

besides now that Joe is Independent, I hardly think he can be counted on in Dem issues any more. I have a feeling he's gonna give Dems the finger.

I disagree -- he has been a good friend to the D's.

[Rickypt]

I disagree -- he has been a good friend to the D's.

Yes, Lieberman will vote with the Dems except for the Iraq issue.

[estranged4life]

Well...The Repubs are getting slaughtered in Oklahoma bigtime:

They're losing (Or have lost) the following State Offices to the Democrats (Most due to re-election):
Governor
Lt.Governor
State Auditor
Attorney General
Treasurer
Superintendent for Public Instruction
Commissioner of Labor
Insurance Commissioner

But the Repubs have kept 4 of the 5 US Congressional seats for Oklahoma (David Boren, the lone Democrat from the Boren family political dynasty, was re-elected) and they may keep Corporation Commissioner.

[irishgrl]

Yes, Lieberman will vote with the Dems except for the Iraq issue.
I think he's gonna say F YOU to all the Dems because the Dems didnt back him in his reelection bid.

[SuzeQuze]

Gay marriage....african-american governor...all Dems in House of Reps...if you had anything close to decent weather, I'd live there in a heartbeat.

Well, it is warmer here than it's ever been! But that has nothing to do with the lefties. But yeah, we have about 10 mos of winter. :lol: It's actually been mild so far (knocks wood). We had some chilly weather this weekend though and freezing lows. :eek:

[SuzeQuze]

Yes, Lieberman will vote with the Dems except for the Iraq issue.

Oh yeah, forgive me I'm exhausted. Screw him then! Stupid Lieberman.

[Rickypt]

I think he's gonna say F YOU to all the Dems because the Dems didnt back him in his reelection bid.

I really don't think so. I disagree with his policy positions, but I think the man is decent and a Democrat at heart.

So...Dems SWEEP all contested races in Indiana and will likely take Nancy Johnson's seat in CT.

~If you see my reflection in a snow-covered hill

[sparky]

So glad that Santorum is gone. Thank you Dan Savage. I would have preferred video of Santorum with a dick in his mouth, but I'll settle for him being gone.

I'm not totally thrilled with Arnold, but he's okay. I hate Angelides. And Cruz Bustamente, who I prefer to call Crusty Bustamove.

Voting was fun this year. I voted no on almost all the damned initiatives. No more money being spent ! Looking like a good night for Dems, so some balance might be restored on a national level. I just hope at least a few of them are strong on the whole immigration fiasco.

[strandinthewind]

Yes, Lieberman will vote with the Dems except for the Iraq issue.

Ummm - the D's voted for Iraq and as of this last year, I believe the majority of the Congressional D's support the war in that they agree (wisely IMO) that an immediate withdrawal would be the wrong decision. So, they are pretty much "stay the course" only "light."

As an aside, there was good article in Newsweek last week on how we should proceed in Iraq, which I mostly agree with:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Downside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech


Upside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech

[Rickypt]

Ummm - the D's voted for Iraq and as of this last year, I believe the majority of the Congressional D's support the war in that they agree (wisely IMO) that an immediate withdrawal would be the wrong decision. So, they are pretty much "stay the course" only "light."


You're right about past votes, but I think when Dems take over, they will take a completely different stand. I expect a vote for timed withdrawal...not immediate, but timed. And Lieberman won't support that.

[carrie721]

just watched blackwell's concession speech. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Rickypt]

Downside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech


Upside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech

Enjoy! :thumbsup:

[SuzeQuze]

Downside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech


Upside to getting PA news:

Watching Santorum's Concession Speech

:blob1: :blob2: :blob1: PA had the most calls regarding voter irregularities today.

Chelsea Clinton was registered in the wrong district and so had to use a provisional ballot.

[estranged4life]

I'm enjoying the BS on Faux News tonight, Those talking heads all look as if they have lost their best friend (More like an opposum in the headlights actually).

[SuzeQuze]

just watched blackwell's concession speech. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Niiice. These guys so had it coming. Karma is a beautiful thing, man. :D

[ryan8472]

Way off topic, but all of this talk made me think of Chris Dodd, and how he outright lied to me, that motherf*ck. :rolleyes: :mad: :laugh:

Too bad he's in office until like, 2011. :rolleyes:

[carrie721]

Niiice. These guys so had it coming. Karma is a beautiful thing, man. :D

:nod: i hate that f*cker. shady, shady, shady.

[ontheEdgeof17]

PA had the most calls regarding voter irregularities today.


Yeah. I hope this doesn't cause a big uproar.

[strandinthewind]

You're right about past votes, but I think when Dems take over, they will take a completely different stand. I expect a vote for timed withdrawal...not immediate, but timed. And Lieberman won't support that.

I think you are correct, though the D's certainly have yet to reveal it :laugh: :rolleyes:

Actually, I think the D's will adopt the plan set forth in Newsweek, which was, in sum, drop over a year or so from 144,000 troops to 30,000 troops, make the sunni Triangle stable through Iraqi forces, and establish a Kursistan (note the Kurds are not fighting now) -- the article concedes that the initial process of the Iraqi takeover of responsibility to keep the peace will be horribly tumultuous, but they need to do it at some point and that time is now.

[estranged4life]

Damn, 58% of all Independents, according to National exit polls, voted for the Democrats.

65% were against the war in Iraq & 68% are displeased with President Bush.



Haha, Watching Is-Crook's concession speech...Boo frikkedy hoo-He got smoked by 160,000 votes!

[SuzeQuze]

Way off topic, but all of this talk made me think of Chris Dodd, and how he outright lied to me, that motherf*ck. :rolleyes: :mad: :laugh:

Too bad he's in office until like, 2011. :rolleyes:

Still, he WILL get his! Oh yeah!

[SuzeQuze]

:nod: i hate that f*cker. shady, shady, shady.

Shady McShadeball. C-ya!

[carrie721]

nice.

AKRON -- Machine failures don't sway resolve of man looking to cast his first ballot.
Gregory Chinn entered United Presbyterian Church in East Akron with a shirt that read "November 7th" and a button with "I will vote today". He couldn't see either one himself, but he wanted others to know that he meant business.

"This is the first time in my entire life that I've ever been able to cast a secret ballot," Chinn said.

The 50-year-old has been blind since birth and has always been forced to have someone else cast his ballot for him. This year was supposed to be different. Summit County purchased new voting machines for the visually impaired, but unfortunately, Chinn's machine wouldn't work.

As the hours ticked away, Chinn refused to give up. He sat in a corner and waited for a new machine to be brought from Board headquarters. It finally arrived and Chinn accomplished his goal four hours after coming to the polls.

"And there's so many issues that concern me, especially because I'm a person with disabilities," Chinn said. "It's very important for me to participate in the political process."

It's doubtful that very many of the hundreds of voters who cast their ballots at Precinct 10-J even noticed Chinn waiting patiently in the corner for his chance to vote. Poll workers certainly did take notice, and applauded Chinn's resolve.

"I told him that I respect the fact that you'll wait so you can vote when other people could care less," said Kalli Alvis, poll worker.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/elections/election_article.aspx?storyid=59017

that's great ... hooray for our new secure electronic voting machines! it's a victory for us all! gah, why don't we have a barfing emoticon ... :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

Watching Fox and reading their website is HYS FUKCING ERICAL RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

I may actually listen to Rush L. tommorow just to hear him go apoplectic :laugh:

[Rickypt]

I think you are correct, though the D's certainly have yet to reveal it :laugh: :rolleyes:

Actually, I think the D's will adopt the plan set forth in Newsweek, which was, in sum, drop over a year or so from 144,000 troops to 30,000 troops, make the sunni Triangle stable through Iraqi forces, and establish a Kursistan (note the Kurds are not fighting now) -- the article concedes that the initial process of the Iraqi takeover of responsibility to keep the peace will be horribly tumultuous, but they need to do it at some point and that time is now.

Believe me, I'm not a fan of the Dems' actions on the war. Newseek plan sounds interesting.

[Rickypt]

Dems get Sherwood's seat in PA.:thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

Believe me, I'm not a fan of the Dems' actions on the war. Newseek plan sounds interesting.


I looked for it online, but could not find it. It was great reading. It compared Iraq to Korea and set forth this plan that would prohibit our deaths from going to 30,000+ -- I mean I am sure not all will agree with every aspect of the plan, but, to me, it at least WAS a fukcing plan, which is better than either party has proffered.

[SuzeQuze]

Believe me, I'm not a fan of the Dems' actions on the war. Newseek plan sounds interesting.

Me neither. I think Kerry did have a plan. The dems haven't said much coming into this vote because the Rs just imploded and they didn't have to and risk losing votes.

Wish I could stay up and chat/celebrate more but I'm just beat. 'night Ledgies. :wavey:

[irishgrl]

In case anyone cares, here are the initiatives facing CA voters:


November 7, 2006 General Election Ballot

Legislative Constitutional Amendment
Proposition 1A

Transportation Funding Protection. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.

Legislative Bond Act
Proposition 1B

Highway Safety, Traffic Reduction, Air Quality, and Port Security Bond Act of 2006

Legislative Bond Act
Proposition 1C

Housing and Emergency Shelter Trust Fund Act of 2006.

Legislative Bond Act
Proposition 1D

Kindergarten - University Public Education Facilities Bond Act of 2006.

Legislative Bond Act
Proposition 1E

Disaster Preparedness and Flood Prevention Bond Act of 2006.

Initiative Statute
Proposition 83

Sex Offenders. Sexually Violent Predators. Punishment, Residence Restrictions and Monitoring. Initiative Statute.

Initiative Statute
Proposition 84

Water Quality, Safety and Supply. Flood Control. Natural Resource Protection. Park Improvements. Bonds. Initiative Statute.

Initiative Constitutional Amendment
Proposition 85

Waiting Period and Parental Notification Before Termination of Minor's Pregnancy. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.

Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute
Proposition 86

Tax on Cigarettes. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute.

Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute
Proposition 87

Alternative Energy. Research, Production, Incentives. Tax on California Oil Producers. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute.

Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute
Proposition 88

Education Funding. Real Property Parcel Tax. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute.

Initiative Statute
Proposition 89

Political Campaigns. Public Financing. Corporate Tax Increase. Campaign Contribution and Expenditure Limits. Initiative Statute.

Initiative Constitutional Amendment
Proposition 90

Government Acquisition, Regulation of Private Property. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.

[strandinthewind]

Me neither. I think Kerry did have a plan. The dems haven't said much coming into this vote because the Rs just imploded and they didn't have to and risk losing votes.

Wish I could stay up and chat/celebrate more but I'm just beat. 'night Ledgies. :wavey:

I think Kerry had no plan (or at least any plan worth any merit or significantly different then W's "plan" ) when he ran. Otherwise, he would have used it. I mean that election was Kerry's to lose, and he did, which is a strong testament to how inept he was and is IMO.

[estranged4life]

hooray for our new secure electronic voting machines! it's a victory for us all! gah, why don't we have a barfing emoticon ... :rolleyes:

with voting technology, I thought with the advances voting would be easier-Guess not (There's never been a voting problem in Oklahoma, I think the rest of the country needs to use the same system we use, it's fast and very reliable-Just connect the arrow which points at ONLY the candidate/issue with a black felt pen and there ya go, so easy that even 80 & 90 yrs. old consistently do it without any problem)

As for barf emoticons, I like the following 2:

<div align=center>
<img src="http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/puke.gif">

<img src="http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/throwup.gif">
</div>

[gldstwmn]

I just got back from voting, stood in line for 90 minutes. I'll have to get caught up.

[strandinthewind]

I just got back from voting, stood in line for 90 minutes. I'll have to get caught up.

90 minutes - was it comparatively understaffed :eek:

[GypsySorcerer]

God, I am glad Santorum is out. What an ass.

[mikeschmike]

I'm listening to Amy Klobuchar's speech right now. She whooped our GOP incumbent's ass out of here 62%-34%

[estranged4life]

I just got back from voting, stood in line for 90 minutes. I'll have to get caught up.

Damn, most we have ever stood in line was about 5 minutes (Mainly because the former facility was a very small room, now it's a cafeteria of a senior center.)

[markolas]

I voted straight Democrat, with a few exceptions. In some of the state court races, the only choice was between a Republican (incumbents, I'm sure) and a Libertarian. I voted Libertarian, even though they're basically the same thing as Republicans. :laugh:

Anyway, I don't think any of my votes amounted to a hill of beans, this being Texas and all. That bitch Kay Bailey Hutchinson will win by a landslide, even though I took great pleasure in voting against her. Same goes for that MF Perry.

[gldstwmn]

Denver has been a MESS...Dems tried to sue the city to get the polls an extension so they'd close at 9pm...it was turned down...

The lines have been crazy and they've had computer problems all day...but it's a Democratic stronghold..I'm fearful of how this will affect results :distress:

I stood in line for 90 minutes begining at 6:30 pm. Had no problem with the machine. It was the same type I voted on in '04.
Someone decided to make "voting centers" where you could vote anywhere in Denver County so there were no precincts like it used to be. The problem is we had 55 voting centers to accomodate 350,000 registered voters. I drove to three voting centers that were not too far from my house. the one that was a block from my house had a line wrapped around the block. I wanted to come back and grab my camera to take a picture of it because I had never seen anything like this in Denver and it was still light enough out but my daughter had it with her. The other two voting centers were just as bad if not worse. The only saving grace was a couple of nice gentlement came by a broke out their acoustic guitars and played music for us while we were in line.
The bad thing is I have to guess that many people tried to vote today but could not due to the lines and their own time restrictions. :distress:
Another thing, I'm starting not to dig our (Democrat) mayor too much. My nickname for him is Mayor Micromanager. He owns a bunch of restaurants and is starting to run our city like that.

[Rickypt]

MSNBC is projecting a gain of 29 seats for Dems in the House, enough for a big win.

In the Senate, the VA race is very close, with Allen having a slight lead. Talent is leading in Missouri.

I'm beginning to think Dems won't take the Senate. To be honest, it is not so bad for Democrats to only win one chamber. In the House, they can call for investigative hearings and can stop any bad legislation.

[gldstwmn]

WE JUST TOOK THE HOUSE OF REPRESNETATIVES!:blob1: :blob1: :blob1: :woohoo:

[GypsySorcerer]

WE JUST TOOK THE HOUSE OF REPRESNETATIVES!:blob1: :blob1: :blob1: :woohoo:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Merf]

WE JUST TOOK THE HOUSE OF REPRESNETATIVES!:blob1: :blob1: :blob1: :woohoo:

They even picked up one in my state, North Carolina, District 11 (Asheville) which was a huge shocker. WHOO!!!!!!!! :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

. . . That bitch Kay Bailey Hutchinson will win by a landslide, even though I took great pleasure in voting against her . . . .

:laugh: I readily admit she is that and more - but the bitch can wear a Chanel suit like no one else and her hair is FIERCE :laugh:

Other than that - I have no use for the sow.

[strandinthewind]

WE JUST TOOK THE HOUSE OF REPRESNETATIVES!:blob1: :blob1: :blob1: :woohoo:

I know - I saw that as I read your post!!!!!!!

I do, however, feel a bit sorry for Lincoln Chaffe - I rather liked him. But, that is that.

[strandinthewind]

and WTF is up with Folely's seat being so tight?

[mikeschmike]

I love the set that CNN is using, and doesn't Anderson Cooper seem sexier when he delivers GREAT news?

[Rickypt]

I know - I saw that as I read your post!!!!!!!

I do, however, feel a bit sorry for Lincoln Chaffe - I rather liked him. But, that is that.

The Senate thing is a little odd. Mainly moderate Republicans like Dewine and Chafee losing and possibly conservative Democrats like Webb/Tester winning. Not sure how it will change anything ideologically.

The House is a big deal. Go Nancy Pelosi! My rep is now the speaker elect!!

[strandinthewind]

I love the set that CNN is using, and doesn't Anderson Cooper seem sexier when he delivers GREAT news?

. . . reading the phone book, singing the National Anthem, sitting on a Ritz . . . :o :o :o

[Rickypt]

and WTF is up with Folely's seat being so tight?

Why did this crack me up so much? Is that really what you meant to say? :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Why did this crack me up so much? Is that really what you meant to say? :laugh:

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

me :angel: - make a pun - why would you suggest such a thing kind sir :D

[estranged4life]

and WTF is up with Folely's seat being so tight?

I'm straight. Oh, ya meant his seat in Congress...My bad! :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Of course, my state, which would reenact lynchings if it could, is bucking the trend. Oy!

On a lighter note - I told my mom the lynching joke earlier and she responded that when she lived in Albany, Ga in the 40's, she saw teenage boys go off to ****** town and beat up some just for fun. Then she said that was horrifying and unchristian -- and to add insult to injury, she knew many lovely black people like her maid!

Oh to be 80 and a not so faded and still fiesty Southern Belle :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Allen is going to win and I cannot BELIEVE that. Though, his margain is shrinking and because the margain is less than 1% and shrinking, Webb can request and get a recount - that is impt. because over 2 million votes have been cast and the lead is by 6,000 or so votes.

Also, the SD abortion ref. will be defeated.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

a sad day for GOPers like myself.. my wine is right beside me! ;)

although im not shocked.. midterm elections do tend to favor the party out of power!

I did find a few bright spots tonight.. such as <a href="http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/MI/I/01/index.html">Michigan saying NO to affirmative action!</a> :blob2:

[BTFLCHLD]

I wait until the last minute every year to avoid the crowds. They did say there was a two hour wait earlier. I was there and back in 30 mins.

[Rickypt]

Allen is going to win and I cannot BELIEVE that.

I can't either. Unbelievable. Democrats will not win the Senate. The Missouri race doesn't look good either.

[GypsySorcerer]

I do, however, feel a bit sorry for Lincoln Chaffe - I rather liked him. But, that is that.

I was sort of surprised he lost by that large of margin, but then again, not really. With his defeat, the only decent Republican is Snowe. Specter is barely tolerable.

[Rickypt]

I see that gay marriage is getting creamed all over the place. And Colorado doesn't even seem to be okay with domestic partnership. How f*king awful can people possibly be....

[Rickypt]

Allen is going to win and I cannot BELIEVE that. Though, his margain is shrinking and because the margain is less than 1% and shrinking, Webb can request and get a recount - that is impt. because over 2 million votes have been cast and the lead is by 6,000 or so votes.

Also, the SD abortion ref. will be defeated.

Webb only 3,000 votes down with 99% precincts counted.

[gldstwmn]

How did you guys vote on whether a candidate can run in more than one party, if nominated, and thus be listed on the ballot more than once? Was that national?

Wasn't on my ballot. I think candidates can change parties, just not in the middle of their term. It's not fair to the people who voted for them. We had one do it here. Ben Nighthorse Campbell went from Dem to Repub.

[GypsySorcerer]

I see that gay marriage is getting creamed all over the place. And Colorado doesn't even seem to be okay with domestic partnership. How f*king awful can people possibly be....

I know. :distress: And the stem cell measure in Missouri probably won't pass, either.

[Rickypt]

Webb is ahead!!!!!!

[gldstwmn]

I think he's gonna say F YOU to all the Dems because the Dems didnt back him in his reelection bid.

And they'll take his seat on his committe and that will be the end of that. Nope, he walk the line, except for the war.

[gldstwmn]

Same goes for that MF Perry.

Governor Goodhair?

[gldstwmn]

I know - I saw that as I read your post!!!!!!!

I do, however, feel a bit sorry for Lincoln Chaffe - I rather liked him. But, that is that.

Well, that's the Senate. Lincoln had the chance to cross over to the Dems but he wouldn't do it. There was talk of running Patrick Kennedy against him there for a while.

[gldstwmn]

and WTF is up with Folely's seat being so tight?

There is a really bad joke in there somewhere but I am not going to be the one to make it.

[gldstwmn]

a sad day for GOPers like myself.. my wine is right beside me! ;)



Keep it close dear. Come January you're going to need it. :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

I was sort of surprised he lost by that large of margin, but then again, not really. With his defeat, the only decent Republican is Snowe. Specter is barely tolerable.

I can tolerate Christopher Shays. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

I see that gay marriage is getting creamed all over the place. And Colorado doesn't even seem to be okay with domestic partnership. .

I voted for it. :sorry:

[gldstwmn]

Webb only 3,000 votes down with 99% precincts counted.

The remaining 1% are traditionally DEM districts!

[Nixxxed]

Governor Goodhair?
I can't believe Texas is stuck with Rick Perry again. Chris Bell probably would have won if the other two Republicans who pulled Liebermans (Strayhorn, Friedman) hadn't been in the race. :(

Also, I just checked my local results and not a single person I voted for won. :laugh: Democrats could be competitive here again if they actually put some effort into it.

[Rickypt]

The remaining 1% are traditionally DEM districts!

And McCaskill slowly gaining on Talent. Looking much better for getting the Senate.

[Nixxxed]

Ummm ... am I watching a Macaca concession speech?

[sasja]

Oooh oh oh oh I am crossing EVERYTHING for McCaskill to keep gaining.

Still hoping for Virginia too.

Sasja

[Rickypt]

McCaskill took the lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Wait: now it looks like she's behind.

[irishgrl]

Allen is going to win and I cannot BELIEVE that. Though, his margain is shrinking and because the margain is less than 1% and shrinking, Webb can request and get a recount - that is impt. because over 2 million votes have been cast and the lead is by 6,000 or so votes.

Also, the SD abortion ref. will be defeated.
thank GAWD.
just got home from visiting a friend and saw the Dems now control the HOUSE!

WE CLEANED HOUSE!!!! :blob1: :blob2:

[irishgrl]

Governator wins again in CA. woo frickedy hoo.

other CA news:

LOS ANGELES - Gov.
Arnold Schwarzenegger will be baaack.


The bodybuilder-turned-action-star-turned-politician coasted to an easy victory over Democrat Phil Angelides on Tuesday, completing a comeback from a disastrous bid a year ago to realign political power in Sacramento.

Schwarzenegger admitted his mistakes and changed course. Aided by a rolling state economy, his campaign won back Democratic and independent support by blending Reaganesque optimism with a return to the middle-ground politics that helped propel him to office amid the historic recall of Gov.
Gray Davis in 2003.

The 59-year-old Schwarzenegger was seen as a bright spot for Republicans in a year when the party has struggled to hold on nationwide amid frustration with the war in
Iraq.

Two Republicans linked to the Jack Abramaoff lobbying scandal were fighting for survival. Rep. Richard Pombo (news, bio, voting record), the chairman of the House Resources Committee, was challenged by Democrat Jerry McNerney, a 53-year-old wind-energy engineer who holds a doctorate in mathematics. Meanwhile, Republican Rep. John Doolittle (news, bio, voting record) faced Democrat Charlie Brown, a retired Air Force officer and decorated war veteran.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., easily won her third term by a wide margin.

Voters also decided on a massive rebuilding package for highways, schools, housing and levees totaling $37 billion, a pillar of Schwarzenegger's agenda.

They were asked for the second time in a year to weigh in on an initiative to require parents to be notified 48 hours before their minor child has an abortion, unless the parents or a judge waived the requirement. A nearly identical measure was rejected last November.

Hollywood and political celebrities including
Bill Clinton,
Al Gore and Julia Roberts got involved in campaigining for Proposition 87, which would tax companies drilling for oil in California. The money from the tax would be set aside to promote clean energy, with the goal of promoting clean energy.

Also put before voters was a plan to finance campaigns with tax dollars and "Jessica's Law," which would prohibit paroled sex offenders from living in many urban areas. Voters also considered whether to boost tobacco taxes to pay for health care.

[estranged4life]

Also, I just checked my local results and not a single person I voted for won. :laugh:

local elections for this area this year, just state elections and questions (I was 7-3 on state office elections and 3-1 on state questions, for a 10-4 record.)


I cannot believe state question 733 passed, but I guess people wanna get ****faced on election day:

"This measure would remove the ban on sales of alcoholic beverage purchases from package stores on election day."



I am still happy that Brad Henry annihilated Ernest Istook by over 250,000 votes - A complete whitewash.

[Rickypt]

Cnn.com showing McCaskill ahead!

[estranged4life]

The Governator is spea-king now...At least we wont have to see another of his movies for a few more years :thumbsup:

[vermicious knid]

Three Senate races left to call, and Dems need all three to get take control. As far as I can tell, the three are Missourie, Montana, and Virginia. It seems like it would be a longshot, but I am getting my hopes up looking here. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/senate/full.list/)

[amber]

Crap, prop 87 is behind (CA). just got home, looking at the results. Also, of course, no one wants to fund education as usual. People get so pissed off at any hint of funds for anything, not realizing that it will make everyone's life better.

Anyway, it's weird that the Senate is staying repub. Do you guys think some people consciously split their vote, like "oh, I'll vote Dem for the House, and Repub for the Senate, that will even it all out!" or something?:confused:
Curiouser.

Emminent Domain (prop 90) is really close, 50% to 49%. I'll die if that passes. Whatever, everyone's stupid, I hate them.:laugh:

[amber]

I just freaked out looking at a map of which states were red and blue as far as Governors go. Everything is askew, it's bizarro governor red/blue world. :shocked: All results aren't in, but still. VT and CA, red?! gar.

But seriously, I'm soo pissed 87 isn't passing. f*cknuts.

Um, yeah, great, CA is now a repub state. mmm.

[amber]

So glad that Santorum is gone. Thank you Dan Savage. I would have preferred video of Santorum with a dick in his mouth, but I'll settle for him being gone.

I'm not totally thrilled with Arnold, but he's okay. I hate Angelides. And Cruz Bustamente, who I prefer to call Crusty Bustamove.

Voting was fun this year. I voted no on almost all the damned initiatives. No more money being spent ! Looking like a good night for Dems, so some balance might be restored on a national level. I just hope at least a few of them are strong on the whole immigration fiasco.

A) I hate you. :laugh: :xoxo: Not really, I just really wanted some of those propositions to pass, and resent people who think "spending is bad" in a kind of blanket way. We all benefit when everyone benefits, if you see what I mean. I especially get mad when people vote against education things, as they always do. I at least hope you voted yes on 87 for alternative fuel, but whatevs. ;)
B) Why do you hate Angelides? I really don't know that much about him, but I really hate Schwartzenlamer, a lot, mega. I broke my own rule this time, though, and didn't vote Green for Governor, voted Dem instead (I've only had that rule since last election). I wanted Arnie out that bad.

You know who I knew was really slick and creepy every since I saw him last election, and still think the same thing, even though he's a Dem?
Cruz Bustamante. *shudder*. Something about him just really creeps me out. It was an immediate and very visceral reaction when I first saw him. He's still creepy even though he lost weight, too - almost creepier. Is he gay? Does anyone know? Not that I'm saying that makes him creepy - I just sense something really off. He's so snakelike somehow, just seems really dishonest. He seems like a total self serving pawn.

Oh, and on a side note, it appears that any cigarettes we may buy won't be taxed. Hurray! Thank goodness! :rolleyes: Lamers. hella.

[Nixxxed]

I'm freaking out. This Senate thing is killing me.

Virginia - *claimed* by Webb - over .5% difference, so Allen will have to pay for recount

Missouri - McCaskill wins, Rush becomes official pariah

Montana - Talent up up up

:shocked:

[DrummerDeanna]

Just got back from Republicanland....aka MY HELL!

It was horrid - and the congresswoman from my district won..boo - but at least the Dems had already taken control of the house by the time she was declared...

I'm way excited - but exhausted :blob1:

[sparky]

A) I hate you. :laugh: :xoxo: Not really, I just really wanted some of those propositions to pass, and resent people who think "spending is bad" in a kind of blanket way. We all benefit when everyone benefits, if you see what I mean. I especially get mad when people vote against education things, as they always do. I at least hope you voted yes on 87 for alternative fuel, but whatevs. ;)

I voted for a few of the bonds for infrastructure. Against my better judgement and only because the roads are a disaster and the water problems are severe. I don't believe in running the state on credit cards and loans. But that's how most people live their lives, and bond measures frequently pass. I don't always vote against education things, but I have started to. Until the state gets a handle on illegal immigration, I will continue to vote against education measures. Especially with the state legislature wanting to give kids of illegal immigrants in state tuition. Drives me bat****. Pissed that school classes are to big ? Seal the f*ckin border already.

I voted against 87 too. Good idea, bad plan. Gas prices would just go up, and the plan had zero oversight. Another huge beauracracy was going to be set up with no clear cut goals. It was just too vague for me get behind.

B) Why do you hate Angelides?

He is charmless and had nothing concrete to say about what he wanted to do. I thought he was reactionary. He just bitched about Arnold and offered nothing else. If he's the best the Dems can come up with, they can't get my vote. I kind of like Arnold. He was the best of a bad lot. As far as Repubs go, I find him tolerable. I like that he took a stand on the global warming thing, and the fact that he actually works with Dems and doesn't shun them.

You know who I knew was really slick and creepy every since I saw him last election, and still think the same thing, even though he's a Dem?
Cruz Bustamante. *shudder*. Something about him just really creeps me out. It was an immediate and very visceral reaction when I first saw him. He's still creepy even though he lost weight, too - almost creepier. Is he gay? Does anyone know? Not that I'm saying that makes him creepy - I just sense something really off. He's so snakelike somehow, just seems really dishonest. He seems like a total self serving pawn.

He's a slimeball. But Fabio Nunez is worse.

Oh, and on a side note, it appears that any cigarettes we may buy won't be taxed. Hurray! Thank goodness! :rolleyes: Lamers. hella.

2.60 a pack! Ridiculous. And a fraction of the money was to be spent on smoking stuff. I sure hope the imminent domain thing goes right. That **** is scary.

[BombaySapphire3]

Well homegirl gave her victory speech as the first woman Speaker of the House and at this late hour it looks like the Senate could go too.Can someone please start impeachment hearings against the gaggle of war criminals in the White House????:shrug:

[amber]

Yeah, here's the county breakdown of prop 87 vote: Blue equals no, green yes. (it's the alternative fuels research bond). So predictable. Humbolt, and us, some of the beautiful coastal places down south. It boggles my mind that the central valley, and much of down south coastal, doesn't care that all their children have asthma, and that all the pollution blows over to them, that they can't eat the fish from their ocean. It also boggles my mind the amount of money spent by oil companies to win that victory. Also mindboggling is the fact that prop 87 offered incentives to reduce petroleum consumption, and also that it's goal was a modest 25% reduction of dependence on oil - and was to be funded on a tax of only 1% to 6% - even my broke ass broke ass would pay that (if I had a car) and yet, no. No, it won't pass.

It's so weird to me to think that I, I who (right now) could easily have nothing if slight amounts of money were taken from me - would be glad to give up some of that money if these problems are solved, but that a huge majority of people who have more money absolutely vote that these problems don't need to be solved. Yes, I know there are hella poor other poeple who vote against - but not that many. It's not really that much money. I don't get it. Perhaps I hold the stupid hope that humans are different than how they actually are. If it cost me...I dunno...20-100 more dollars a month in gas taxes - that seems a bargain, to me. :confused: A massive bargain. It's like the bargain of the century. Perhaps I am suprised that the selfish nature of humans (which is fine) can't project a tiny bit into the future and realize that they would be even happier and more fulfilled and have more abundance of all kinds with just a bit of compromise. They would be rich and rich. They may not have to work as hard for their money.

We can all see the detriment of oil consumption clearly - all of us in CA. I mean, you can see it, and you can see the results of it. It isn't some nebulous abstract concept, it's like "oh, my kid has severe asthma" and "oh, there is no fish left in our bay" and "Oh, there is an air quality warning for us out today, so don't breathe!"

Here's how the monies would have been dispersed for 87:
"58% for alternative fuels to reduce gasoline and diesel use, 27% for research and innovation acceleration, and 10% for commercialization acceleration. Fuels considered "alternative" are fuel blends consisting of at least 85% ethanol, or a fuel blend consisting of at least 20% bio-diesel"


Simple pimple, you would think. And I love how the commercials were all "Prop 87 doesn't require results!" - well, lets take a look at science. You can't "require" results of it in a certain time period with science. That's how pharmaceutical companies work, and we all know about pharm companies. The pressure to put out drugs that sell, the pressure for profit - the bazillions of dollars they funnel to the gov't.

You can only make scientists discover things "faster" to a point. And no one will discover anything if they don't have any funding. Which is what will happen, now. It's totally illogical to say "Prop 87 doesn't require results!" and then not fund anything - which also yields no results. :shocked:

Which leaves these issues largely to private industry - for profit companies - which not only may be dangerous to humans, but by their very nature will not address the totality of the problems - it will mostly address problems that can yield profit. And when you put deadlines on that, and profit demands, it is imminently possible that the "product" may not be the best it can be. If you've studied your history, you know there are numerous examples of this problem. Just right of the top of my head I'm going to name Thalidomide. Also I will name the powerful big money lobby that, back in the day, evilized hemp (a much more efficient and useful plant) in favor of tobacco. Just saying.

If you don't pluck populace/other money for these things, All the people who already have money will control those things. And, since we know these people mostly are avaricious, it would be a huge folly to believe that any of them have any of our interests in mind. Well, they may have the well being of their fellow income bracket folk in mind, and of course there are other exceptions - some. But money talks, and people pay scientists to say what they want the public to hear. Easy as that, anyone can be bought. And anyone can put out science if their job depends on it.

Yet, somehow, humans don't understand that if they fund people to figure out complex sh*t, in a way that profits aren't the main issue, that that is the moment when their lives become better, and the lives of everyone around the world. They also can't figure out that if they don't fund education, that there may be many, many, many, many fewer people to have the opportunity to figure this complex sh*t out.

Okay, that's probably enough for one night. :laugh: My $.02.
Whatever, Elections make me rant, just like everyone. Sorry about how it wasn't that well organized. Sometimes you just gotta flow.
Sucks that 67% of the county I am from (El Dorado) voted against. But of course. I remember, in fifth grade, our teacher asked us if we would vote for Reagan or Mondale. That's an age where everyone just does what their parents say. Only two kids in a thirty kid class raised their hand for Mondale. :laugh: How did I ever survive? :p

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/antisnark/mapR087-1.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[amber]

I voted for a few of the bonds for infrastructure. Against my better judgement and only because the roads are a disaster and the water problems are severe. I don't believe in running the state on credit cards and loans. But that's how most people live their lives, and bond measures frequently pass. I don't always vote against education things, but I have started to. Until the state gets a handle on illegal immigration, I will continue to vote against education measures. Especially with the state legislature wanting to give kids of illegal immigrants in state tuition. Drives me bat****. Pissed that school classes are to big ? Seal the f*ckin border already.

I voted against 87 too. Good idea, bad plan. Gas prices would just go up, and the plan had zero oversight. Another huge beauracracy was going to be set up with no clear cut goals. It was just too vague for me get behind.



He is charmless and had nothing concrete to say about what he wanted to do. I thought he was reactionary. He just bitched about Arnold and offered nothing else. If he's the best the Dems can come up with, they can't get my vote. I kind of like Arnold. He was the best of a bad lot. As far as Repubs go, I find him tolerable. I like that he took a stand on the global warming thing, and the fact that he actually works with Dems and doesn't shun them.



He's a slimeball. But Fabio Nunez is worse.



2.60 a pack! Ridiculous. And a fraction of the money was to be spent on smoking stuff. I sure hope the imminent domain thing goes right. That **** is scary.

Wow. I almost totally disagree with you. But appreciate your explanations. I can't really get into how much I disagree, cause I don't want to argue with my Sparkelah. I will only say, I don't care that 87 didn't require results (but was explicit on what the percentage of money going to what would be) - at this point something is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, better than nothing. I balk when people bitch about "beaurocracy" - and make no mistake, repubs waste money like no other, they just don't talk about it - Defense spending is five billion times that of welfare - and then I think that those people don't truly understand what really wastes money, or who really wastes money, or what money is beneficial and may be required to make meaningful changes.

My god, the amount of money wasted by things people don't know about, and so never blame the people involved, is monumental, and has nothing to do with what you (and others) perceive as traditional scapegoat money wasters. Nothing at all. It's all talk, all surface, and everyone is fooled, they've been hearing it for so long.
Now is the time when Diss should pipe in and post all the specifics about how repubs and their ideas are bloatedly riddled with pork bellies and plans to make the rich richer. Bonds and Propositions included. How very much regular people are taxed under repubs while simultaneously tax cuts for the very wealthy are abundant, and also while people being told that cutting education, welfare, healthcare, is "fiscally responsible" - and how defense spending is really important - when anyone who actually looks at the numbers can see that they not only being swindled and robbed, while others better off are not, but that the nature of the swindle informs policy that is detrimental to themselves, and humanity as a whole, with far reaching pervasive consequences. It's funny. It really is.
It's like a common card shark on the street using sleight of hand and fast talk so that you can't guess the card. You still think that if you really watch carefully, you can win your bet this time - but you can't, and never do. Because it's rigged. Every time. And not in your favor.

I still love you, though. No big. :xoxo:
Ahem - So Cruz isn't gay? I guess his giant lie is simply all pervasive greed and powermongering. Hmm, the strength of his icky made it seem more unusual and subversive and socially unacceptable than that. :laugh: What's another giant lie that could account for that?

And I voted for the cigarrette tax. *insert self righteous tone* :laugh:

[BombaySapphire3]

Solano. a Bay Area county is blue by 58%?! Well I Guess Vacaville is pretty redneck.

[strandinthewind]

Also, isn't it ironic that Allen will likely call for a recount in VA. I am not saying he does not have the right or that he should not do it. I am just echoing the former sentiments of the GOP about letting sleeping dogs lie.

"the votes have been counted, and recounted . . . . . . . "

[strandinthewind]

November 8, 2006
A Virginia Recount Would Not Come Soon
By JOHN O’NEIL
Virginia’s election laws allow an apparent loser to request a recount if a contest’s margin is less than 1 percent — and the margin in the preliminary results of the state’s Senate campaign stood this morning at about one-third of 1 percent.

But while a recount seems likely, if it comes, it will not come quickly.

According to a statement issued this month by the state’s Board of Elections, any request for a recount cannot be filed until the vote is certified, which is scheduled to happen this year on Nov. 27.

After certification, a losing candidate has 10 days to file a recount request with the state courts. The petition will be considered by a court made up of the Chief Judge of the Circuit Court in Richmond and two judges appointed by the Chief Justice of the state Supreme Court. Those judges then set out guidelines for conducting the recount.

The costs of a recount are borne by the counties and cities conducting the review if the apparent margin of victory from the original count is less than one half of 1 percent, or if the candidate requesting the recount is declared the winner. With 99 percent of precincts reporting this morning, the margin between Senator George Allen, a Republican, and his Democratic challenger, Jim Webb, stood at less than 8,000 votes out of more than 2.3 million cast.

Last year, a recount involving the state’s attorney general race did not begin until Dec. 20th. The margin in that election was the closest in a statewide race in modern Virginia history, with Bob McDonnell, the Republican incumbent, leading his Democratic opponent, Creigh Deeds, by only 323 votes of more than 1.9 million cast.

Mr. Deeds conceded defeat on Dec. 21 after preliminary figures in the recount showed that he would not make up the difference.

www.nytimes.com

[strandinthewind]

I think it is so funny that people actually vote for tax increases as if they are really gonna do anything but pad the already felonious pockets of the politicians and corps. The Federal Govt. makes WAY too much money as it is. If they would stop the RIDICULOUS spending by both sides on crap like $100 hammers, $45 six packs of Coke in Iraq, no bid contracts, funding of art when we can't feed and care for everyone, a welfare system out of control, no price haggled meds, etc. We would have more than enough money, esp. considering we pay on average something like 25% or more to the Feds alone in income tax alone and then pay another 15% or so via phone taxes, Social Security, Medicare, excise taxes, etc. That is not even counting the Federal taxes like port taxes that are passed on to us via the price of goods. It also does not count the 25% or more paid in the various state and local taxes. So, I say FUKC any new taxes until the ridiculous spending is brought under control, which will never happen because both sides are beholden to the big corps (and I mean all of them)

I always use the phone bill as an example. Take a look at what you pay as a "tax." 911 emergency services is a seemingly good idea. Yet, when examined, it is a pork barrell. If Georgia has 10 million phones (and I submit it has at least twice as many as that as 5 million live in Atlanta alone and most people have a land line and then a cell for each family member over 12) and each phone pays $1.50 to fund 911 -- that is $180 million a year to fund and run 911 if there are just 10 million phones (I submit the figure is likely 20 million phones for $360 million a year) -- Give me fukcing break.

Then, the other taxes like the tax to ensure people in rural areas have phones (like $3.99 + a month or almost 1/2 a billion a year in Georgia alone using that 10 million phone low estimate) are just a result of Bellsouth's lobbying. Wouldn't you love to own your own business and have the governement pay for FREE most or a significant portion of your labor costs, which is what this "tax" does. FUKC THAT!

Then, the 9/11 fees for the airports. Who was paying this before? Why the airlines were. But, they aren't anymore and they are charging the same or more for tickets even adjusting for the more expensive fuel. Wouldn't you love for the govt. to pay for the security costs of your business FOR FREE. FUKC THAT!

So, I conclude that until BOTH the R's and D's stop acting like a silly woman with a credit card who can't balance her checkbook, I say FUKC THEM and their new taxes.

[irishgrl]

Wow. I almost totally disagree with you. But appreciate your explanations. I can't really get into how much I disagree, cause I don't want to argue with my Sparkelah. I will only say, I don't care that 87 didn't require results (but was explicit on what the percentage of money going to what would be) - at this point something is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, better than nothing. I balk when people bitch about "beaurocracy" - and make no mistake, repubs waste money like no other, they just don't talk about it - Defense spending is five billion times that of welfare - and then I think that those people don't truly understand what really wastes money, or who really wastes money, or what money is beneficial and may be required to make meaningful changes.

My god, the amount of money wasted by things people don't know about, and so never blame the people involved, is monumental, and has nothing to do with what you (and others) perceive as traditional scapegoat money wasters. Nothing at all. It's all talk, all surface, and everyone is fooled, they've been hearing it for so long.
Now is the time when Diss should pipe in and post all the specifics about how repubs and their ideas are bloatedly riddled with pork bellies and plans to make the rich richer. Bonds and Propositions included. How very much regular people are taxed under repubs while simultaneously tax cuts for the very wealthy are abundant, and also while people being told that cutting education, welfare, healthcare, is "fiscally responsible" - and how defense spending is really important - when anyone who actually looks at the numbers can see that they not only being swindled and robbed, while others better off are not, but that the nature of the swindle informs policy that is detrimental to themselves, and humanity as a whole, with far reaching pervasive consequences. It's funny. It really is.
It's like a common card shark on the street using sleight of hand and fast talk so that you can't guess the card. You still think that if you really watch carefully, you can win your bet this time - but you can't, and never do. Because it's rigged. Every time. And not in your favor.

I still love you, though. No big. :xoxo:
Ahem - So Cruz isn't gay? I guess his giant lie is simply all pervasive greed and powermongering. Hmm, the strength of his icky made it seem more unusual and subversive and socially unacceptable than that. :laugh: What's another giant lie that could account for that?

And I voted for the cigarrette tax. *insert self righteous tone* :laugh:
I voted YES on 87
in fact, here's how I went on the ticket…

YES on 1A-1E
YES on 83 (sex offender residence restrictions)
YES on 84 (water quality)
NO NO NO on 85 (parental notification act)
YES on 86 (cigarette tax)
YES on 87 (tax the oil companies to provide $$$ for alt energy research)
NO on 88 (education bond/property tax) **I usually vote yes for education**
YES YES YES on 89 (political/campaign reform)
YES on 90 (government may not "take" or condemn private property to promote other private projects--remember that community back east where people had their homes taken out from under them so a developer could make a shopping center on a lake? this prevents that. I hope it passes)


here's the current results for CA:


State Ballot Measures
97.7% ( 24525 of 25090 ) precincts reporting as of Nov 8, 2006 at 4:22 am

Statewide Results County Returns | Other Contests

Propositions Yes
Votes % No
Votes %
1A Y Transp Fund Protect 4,875,244 76.6% 1,493,167 23.4% Map
1B Y Hwy/Air/Port Bond 3,906,162 61.3% 2,476,018 38.7% Map
1C Y Housing Shelter Fund 3,668,325 57.5% 2,716,961 42.5% Map
1D Y School Facility Bond 3,614,675 56.5% 2,786,884 43.5% Map
1E Y Disaster/Flood Bond 4,045,387 64.0% 2,284,033 36.0% Map
83 Y Sex Offender Reform 4,538,164 70.5% 1,900,050 29.5% Map
84 Y Water/Flood/Park 3,395,833 53.8% 2,919,923 46.2% Map
85 N Parental Notificat. 2,970,461 45.9% 3,492,629 54.1% Map
86 N Cigarette Tax 3,137,125 47.8% 3,418,330 52.2% Map
87 N Energy/Oil Tax 2,946,653 45.3% 3,557,508 54.7% Map
88 N Educ. Fund/Prop. Tax 1,475,309 23.0% 4,913,297 77.0% Map
89 N Campaign Public Fund 1,612,241 25.4% 4,711,082 74.6% Map
90 N Eminent Domain 3,007,589 47.5% 3,321,887 52.5% Map

Y - Proposition is passing
N - Proposition is not passing

Well...................Im bummed about 89 and 90 of course, but 85 did NOT pass and 83 DID :blob2: :blob1:
Im actually MAD that 87 didnt pass. Them A**hole oil companies spent (edit: MILLIONS) to defeat it. MILLIONS. money which could have financed alternative energy research and development. Which we are going to need anyway as the world's oil is diminishing rapidly. Nobody in this state has any foresight!! except for me and Amber apparently :eek:

edited my exaggeration for Jason who just couldnt STAND it.

[strandinthewind]

Put it this way, it cost Rhode Island only $7 million to run 911 emergency services. I get that Rhode Island is a small state, but even if that number is multiplied by 20, that is only $140 million - - so where does the other $220 million of the very conservatively estimated $360 million go? if you have to think about that one too long, then this argument likely has gone over your head :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . NO NO NO on 85 (parental notification act) . . .

That is such a cock o shiitte.

As with any child, 12 year old girls should not be able to get any medical prodedure without parental consent :rolleyes: I cannot believe you support this. In the end though, it is a mountain out of a mole hill because how is that 12 year old girl gonna pay for it? Of course, you'd vote for free abortions for all, unless they are rich, which in that case, the rich should tithe to the abortion clinics and send their cars for the 12 year olds :rolleyes:

Moreover, what happens if she goes to some horrid free clinic across the tracks and gets septicemia and dies from it. All because she was not required to let an adult help her.

Note - I would have voted against a parental consent law that did not have a judicial or other adult authorization provision.

[strandinthewind]

Looks like the oil companies spent only 133 million on 87.

Also,

As for the other stuss, stripping judges from immunity is assinine to say the least. The standard should be specific intent al la fraud. I mean if a jusde makes a close call and it turns out bad, they should not go to jail for doing their job :shrug:

I like the random million dollars for some lucky voter proposition.

I also like the no consideration of race or gender in college applications. I think any special consideration should be based on poverty alone and this whole "we need to correct past mistakes by giving people a free ride" is for th birds. Why should some son of a black millionaire get any special treatment because some anscestor he probably never knew was treated poorly as many in this country were back then - just ask the Irish or the Chinese?

Anyway - food for thought

___________________________________________________

(AP) -- South Dakotans rejected a toughest-in-the-nation law that would have banned virtually all abortions, even in cases of rape and incest -- defeating one of the most high-profile state measures facing voters Tuesday.

The outcome was a blow to conservatives, although they prevailed in five other states where voters approved constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage. Among them was Wisconsin, where gay-rights activists had nursed hopes of engineering the first defeat of such a ban.

Five states approved increases in their minimum wage, while Arizona passed four measures targeting illegal immigrants, including one making English the state's official language. (View real-time results for key ballot measures)

Voters weren't keen about another, more quirky Arizona measure: They defeated a proposal that would have awarded $1 million to a randomly selected voter in each general election.

Nationwide, a total of 205 measures were on the ballots in 37 states, but none had riveted political activists across the country like the South Dakota abortion measure. Passed overwhelmingly by the legislature earlier this year, it would have allowed abortion only to save a pregnant woman's life.

Lawmakers had hoped the ban would be challenged in court, provoking litigation that might eventually lead to a U.S. Supreme Court reversal of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion.

"This is a wake-up call to lawmakers in other states that America's pro-choice majority will not allow an assault on Roe v. Wade to go unanswered," said Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America.(Watch how initiatives indicate a 'frustration with government' -- 1:22)

Eight states had ban-same-sex-marriage amendments on their ballots. Idaho, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia joined Wisconsin in approving them, according to projections. Results were pending in Arizona, Colorado and South Dakota.

Similar amendments have passed previously in all 20 states to consider them.

Colorado voters had an extra option -- a measure that would grant domestic-partnership rights to same-sex couples.

Conservatives hoped the same-sex marriage bans might increase turnout for Republicans. Democrats looked for a boost from low-income voters turning out on behalf of measures to raise the state minimum wage in six states.

The wage hike passed in Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada and Ohio, according to CNN projections. Results were pending in Colorado. (Watch talk of minimum wage and pregnant pigs -- 2:20)

In Missouri, a proposed amendment allowing stem cell research was a factor in the crucial Senate race there; incumbent Republican Jim Talent opposed the measure, while Democratic challenger Claire McCaskill supported it.

Missouri -- along with Arizona, South Dakota and California -- had a sharp increase in tobacco taxes on its ballot. In California alone, big tobacco companies spent more than $56 million fighting a tax increase that would boost the average price of a pack of cigarettes to $6.55.

In Ohio, anti-smoking activists won a showdown with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco. Voters approved a tough ban on smoking in public places and rejected a Reynolds-backed measure that would have exempted bars, bowling alleys and racetracks.

The costliest ballot campaign -- a state record of $133 million -- was raised in the fight over California's Proposition 87, which would tax companies drilling for oil in the state. The proposal sought to raise $4 billion to promote alternative fuels and energy-efficient vehicles.

Nevada and Colorado both offered measures -- trailing badly in the pre-Election Day polls -- that would legalize possession of up to an ounce of marijuana by anyone 21 and older. A measure in Rhode Island would restore voting rights to felons on probation and parole.

In Michigan, CNN projects that voters will approve a proposition to bar the state government from using race and gender to determine who gets into college, who gets hired and who receives contracts.

Elsewhere, land use was a hot issue, part of a backlash against a 2005 Supreme Court ruling allowing the city of New London, Connecticut, to buy up homes to make way for a private commercial development.

Eleven states considered eminent-domain measures barring the government from taking private property for a private use; Florida, Georgia and South Carolina approved them overwhelmingly. In four states -- Arizona, California, Idaho and Washington -- voters could require state and local authorities to compensate property owners if land-use regulations lowered the value of their property.

South Dakota voters could make their state the first to strip immunity from judges, exposing them to the possibility of lawsuits, fines and even jail for their actions on the bench. Opponents, including leaders of both major parties, said it would create chaos in the judicial system.

In Maine, Nebraska and Oregon, voters considered measures that would cap increases in state spending -- similar to a controversial measure approved in Colorado in 1992.

Pennsylvania voters gave the state the go-ahead to borrow $20 million so that nearly 33,000 veterans in the state who participated in the Persian Gulf War could collect one-time payments up to $525.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/07/election.measures.ap/index.html

[irishgrl]

That is such a cock o shiitte.

As with any child, 12 year old girls should not be able to get any medical prodedure without parental consent :rolleyes: I cannot believe you support this. In the end though, it is a mountain out of a mole hill because how is that 12 year old girl gonna pay for it? Of course, you'd vote for free abortions for all, unless they are rich, which in that case, the rich should tithe to the abortion clinics and send their cars for the 12 year olds :rolleyes:

Moreover, what happens if she goes to some horrid free clinic across the tracks and gets septicemia and dies from it. All because she was not required to let an adult help her.

Note - I would have voted against a parental consent law that did not have a judicial or other adult authorization provision.
I voted against it because.....follow me here:
any girl who didnt already go to her parents and discuss the issue, didnt do so for A REASON. Girl children are often abused by their fathers and not believed by their mothers and there are so many dysfunctional families out there that I am convinced that if a girl feels she cant go to her parents on her own about something like that, there is a very good reason.

The state has NO BUSINESS legislating ANY personal medical decision. NONE.
and all the fundies need to get their morality out of everyone's lives. Period.

Clinics arent horrid and septicemia is not an issue really. This bill was NOT about adults "helping" a child, this bill was about nosybodies trying to whittle away a woman's/girl's right to do what she wants with her own body. But I wouldnt expect you to understand. An apple has no idea what an orange is all about anyway..................

[strandinthewind]

Most girls do not go to their parents because they are scared shiitteless about the stigma, etc. While I get that the abuse occurs, I still think that does not excuse allowing a 12 year old to get a medical procedure willy nilly when they have to have consent for every other procedure. I also think the abuse is not nearly as common as you assert, but you love to play that card.

The state has NO BUSINESS legislating ANY personal medical decision. NONE.
and all the fundies need to get their morality out of everyone's lives. Period.

Good -then that 12 year old ought to just be able to waltz down to the lippo center and pay for her own lipposuction and nose job. After all, it is her body and her decision and the state has no right to interfer. That is just such a load of crap.



But, I would never expect you to get that because you would condone a live birth abortion as a woman's right.

[strandinthewind]

To further my argument - let me ask all who read this this question:

If your 12 year old daughter went to get an abortion without telling you, would you be okay with that?

[SuzeQuze]

I just freaked out looking at a map of which states were red and blue as far as Governors go. Everything is askew, it's bizarro governor red/blue world. :shocked: All results aren't in, but still. VT and CA, red?! gar.

But seriously, I'm soo pissed 87 isn't passing. f*cknuts.

Um, yeah, great, CA is now a repub state. mmm.

We were red for a long time! But now we've made history with our first black governor. Sorry you got the governator again.

[strandinthewind]

a sad day for GOPers like myself.. my wine is right beside me! ;) . . . .

It just amazes me how you can align yourself with a party that:

1. wants to put you in jail for a felony for the type of sex you have

and

2. the R's have been in complete control and this is the most fiscally irresponsible thing I have ever seen.

Have you looked at the spending in the last six years. Compare that to the Clinton years. I am no fan of Clinton, but come on -- at least under him the national debt did not tiple and every Amercian's share of that debt was not $30,000. How are we ever going to pay that?

[SuzeQuze]

I think it is so funny that people actually vote for tax increases as if they are really gonna do anything but pad the already felonious pockets of the politicians and corps. The Federal Govt. makes WAY too much money as it is. If they would stop the RIDICULOUS spending by both sides on crap like $100 hammers, $45 six packs of Coke in Iraq, no bid contracts, funding of art when we can't feed and care for everyone, a welfare system out of control, no price haggled meds, etc. We would have more than enough money, esp. considering we pay on average something like 25% or more to the Feds alone in income tax alone and then pay another 15% or so via phone taxes, Social Security, Medicare, excise taxes, etc. That is not even counting the Federal taxes like port taxes that are passed on to us via the price of goods. It also does not count the 25% or more paid in the various state and local taxes. So, I say FUKC any new taxes until the ridiculous spending is brought under control, which will never happen because both sides are beholden to the big corps (and I mean all of them)

I always use the phone bill as an example. Take a look at what you pay as a "tax." 911 emergency services is a seemingly good idea. Yet, when examined, it is a pork barrell. If Georgia has 10 million phones (and I submit it has at least twice as many as that as 5 million live in Atlanta alone and most people have a land line and then a cell for each family member over 12) and each phone pays $1.50 to fund 911 -- that is $180 million a year to fund and run 911 if there are just 10 million phones (I submit the figure is likely 20 million phones for $360 million a year) -- Give me fukcing break.

Then, the other taxes like the tax to ensure people in rural areas have phones (like $3.99 + a month or almost 1/2 a billion a year in Georgia alone using that 10 million phone low estimate) are just a result of Bellsouth's lobbying. Wouldn't you love to own your own business and have the governement pay for FREE most or a significant portion of your labor costs, which is what this "tax" does. FUKC THAT!

Then, the 9/11 fees for the airports. Who was paying this before? Why the airlines were. But, they aren't anymore and they are charging the same or more for tickets even adjusting for the more expensive fuel. Wouldn't you love for the govt. to pay for the security costs of your business FOR FREE. FUKC THAT!

So, I conclude that until BOTH the R's and D's stop acting like a silly woman with a credit card who can't balance her checkbook, I say FUKC THEM and their new taxes.

Oh don't say "silly woman"! I otherwise agree with you. I think the government has plenty of money if it managed it properly. Although I did vote for a small local increase here but I am not sure if it passed.

[strandinthewind]

Oh don't say "silly woman"! . . . .

:p :p :p :p :p :angel:

[SuzeQuze]

Put it this way, it cost Rhode Island only $7 million to run 911 emergency services. I get that Rhode Island is a small state, but even if that number is multiplied by 20, that is only $140 million - - so where does the other $220 million of the very conservatively estimated $360 million go? if you have to think about that one too long, then this argument likely has gone over your head :laugh:

Meth? Male prostitutes? :shrug: :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Meth? Male prostitutes? :shrug: :lol:

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ME!!!!!!!!!!

and it was smack, not meth

[irishgrl]

Most girls do not go to their parents because they are scared shiitteless about the stigma, etc. While I get that the abuse occurs, I still think that does not excuse allowing a 12 year old to get a medical procedure willy nilly when they have to have consent for every other procedure. I also think the abuse is not nearly as common as you assert, but you love to play that card.



Good -then that 12 year old ought to just be able to waltz down to the lippo center and pay for her own lipposuction and nose job. After all, it is her body and her decision and the state has no right to interfer. That is just such a load of crap.



But, I would never expect you to get that because you would condone a live birth abortion as a woman's right.
Jason, you forget, I have researched extensively the issue of parental sexual abuse. I do not make those statements lightly. And I am more than willing to trot out the stats again and show you AGAIN how wrong you are on this issue and always have been.

[SuzeQuze]

Looks like we're going to get Tesser in Montana, after 99% of precincts counted he is leading by 1,500. We've taken the senate.

[irishgrl]

To further my argument - let me ask all who read this this question:

If your 12 year old daughter went to get an abortion without telling you, would you be okay with that?
yes. the alternative is a 13 year old raising a child she is not equipped to raise. an education will be postponed at best. family will end up helping her raise a baby she isnt able to raise (nor can she afford to)

personally, I think the best approach is prevention, and I would hope she would get birth control to avoid this scenario. but yes, in the long run, abortion would be better for all concerned.

[SuzeQuze]

Yea - but your concept of abuse is likely not most peoples. At least that is what I have gathered from past conversations.

So, define abuse when you haul out those stats.

Please note - I am not talking about the obvious stuff, like rape, etc.

God, you really don't want to know if you don't believe her. It's just so much more prevalent than people realize.

[irishgrl]

Yea - but your concept of abuse is likely not most peoples. At least that is what I have gathered from past conversations.

So, define abuse when you haul out those stats.

Please note - I am not talking about the obvious stuff, like rape, etc.
the abuse I am talking about is sexual abuse by a parent of his/her child or step child (or some other familial tie). you know that.

[strandinthewind]

the abuse I am talking about is sexual abuse by a parent of his/her child or step child (or some other familial tie). you know that.

oops - I deleted the post as I misstated my intent.

But, I agree with you that if a parent inappropriately touches the genitalia of the child, that is abuse.

[irishgrl]

Looks like we're going to get Tesser in Montana, after 99% of precincts counted he is leading by 1,500. We've taken the senate.
plus (hopefully) Virginia right?

[SuzeQuze]

plus (hopefully) Virginia right?

I think so. Maddow just came on AAR and announced Montana. VA isn't in yet. But just with Montana we have it?

[strandinthewind]

plus (hopefully) Virginia right?

If there is a recount, we likely will not know until December.

[strandinthewind]

. . . personally, I think the best approach is prevention, and I would hope she would get birth control to avoid this scenario.

I agree, but it will never happen.

[irishgrl]

God, you really don't want to know if you don't believe her. It's just so much more prevalent than people realize.
yes, to wit:

Sexual Abuse Facts

Approximately 1 out of 4 girls and 1 out of 7 boys will be sexually abused before the age of 18 (Finkelhor, 1994). However, when one includes incidents of non-contact sexual abuse, the rate is much higher. Some researchers estimate the rate to be as many as 62.1% of females and 29% of males are sexually abused as children (Fergusson & Mullen, 1999).

Only 6-12% of sexual abuse cases are ever reported to the authorities (Berliner & Elliott, 2001). Sorenson and Snow (1991) found that among school aged children, educational awareness programs that included discussions about inappropriate behaviors, and stressed assertiveness and personal rights, had a dramatic effect on the number of children who purposefully told.

According to Dr. Baladerian (1991), persons with developmental disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers. Children with disabilities represent approximately 15% of the population. The reported incidence of sexual abuse among children with a disability is 1.75 times the rate for children with no disability (National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect [NCCAN], 1993).

The peak vulnerability for the sexual abuse of boys and girls is between the ages of 7 and 13 years old. There is little research showing a difference in rates of sexual abuse among children of different races (Finkelhor, 1994). Some experts estimate that 5 or 6 children in a typical class- room of thirty have been affected by sexual abuse, regardless of geographic area, race, or socioeconomic class.

The National Victim Center (1992) reports, "One out of every eight adult women, or at least 12.1 million American women have been the victim of forcible rape. Sixty-one percent of all forcible rapes occurred before victims reached the age of 18; twenty-nine percent occurred when the victim was less than eleven years old; and another 32% occurred between the ages of 11 and 17. Rape victims often suffer devastating mental health problems, with 31% developing Rape- related Post-traumatic Stress Disorder sometime in their lifetime. Rape-related PTSD dramatically increases the risk for major alcohol and drug abuse problems. They are 13 times more likely to have two or more major alcohol problems, and 26 times more likely to have two or more major drug abuse problems."

The Perpetrator

Offenders are not usually strangers to children. Approximately 90% of offenders are known to the child victim (Finkelhor, 1994).

There is no specific profile for a child molester. A child molester matches the US population in education, ethnicity, percentage married or formerly married, and religious observance (Abel & Harlow, 2001).

In one study, researchers found that 68% of molesters sexually abuse children in thier own families (Abel & Harlow, 2001).

It is estimated that approximately 3% of child molesters get caught (Abel et. al, 1987). Fewer than 1% are arrested, convicted and imprisoned (Russell, 1984).

According to Abel and Harlow (2001) in a study of 4000 child molesters, they found that the child molester who was severely sexually abused (50+ times), committed well over 100 more acts of child molestation than the never-abused molesters.

Abel et al. (1987) found that 377 extrafamilial child molesters sampled committed 48,297 acts against a total of 27,416 victims. Those who molested female children averaged 19.8 victims and those who molested boys averaged 150.2 victims. The 203 incest offenders in the group committed 15,668 acts against 361 victims. The 377 extrafamilial child molesters sampled committed 48,297 acts against a total of 27,416 victims.

Adolescent sex offenders commit 30-50% of child molestations and 20% of rapes (Murphy & Page, 2000). 1/3 to 1/2 began offending in adolescence (Prentky et al., 2000). 46% of juvenile sex offenders began offending under age 12 (Burton, 2000).

Of the pedophiles who molest girls, 21% also molest boys. Of those pedophiles who molest boys, 53% also molest girls (Abel & Harlow, 2001).

Studies have revealed that 60-80% of adult sex offenders begin offending as adolescents. Adolescents perpetrate 50% of sex offenses against boys, and 15-20% of offenses against girls. (Rasmussen, Buton, Chrisopherson, 1992)

70% of the men who molest boys rated themselves as heterosexual in their adult sexual preferences. These men are married, divorced, widowed, or living with an adult partner. 9% of those molesters who molest boys are equally heterosexual and homosexual and only 8% reported themselves as being exclusively homosexual (Abel & Harlow, 2001).


here are more stats from another site:

The statistics are shocking

* 1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 5 children are solicited sexually while on the internet.
* Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under.
* An estimated 39 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse exist in America today.

Even within the walls of their own homes, children are at risk for sexual abuse

* 30-40% of victims are abused by a family member.
* Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.
* Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know.
* Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.

Sexual abuse can occur at all ages, probably younger than you think

* The median age for reported abuse is 9 years old.
* More than 20% of children are sexually abused before the age of 8.
* Nearly 50% of all victims of forcible sodomy, sexual assault with an object, and forcible fondling are children under 12.

so YES, I jolly well DO think that if a girl doesnt come to her family for help, there's a DAMN GOOD REASON.

[strandinthewind]

1994 stats are not that relevant now as evidenced here, which indicates "Since 1993, rape/sexual assault has fallen by more than half."

http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html?gclid=CMXLhZjEt4gCFRNLGgod1TI4yg

[SuzeQuze]

If there is a recount, we likely will not know until December.

My gut feeling is there will be no recount but we shall see.

[strandinthewind]

My gut feeling is there will be no recount but we shall see.

He would be a fool not to :shrug: Moreover, the GOP likely will demand one as the Senate rests on it.

But, if not, great!

[SuzeQuze]

AZ gay marriage ban defeated.

[strandinthewind]

AZ gay marriage ban defeated.

WOW - that is rather stunning!!

[irishgrl]

1994 stats are not that relevant now as evidenced here, which indicates "Since 1993, rape/sexual assault has fallen by more than half."

http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html?gclid=CMXLhZjEt4gCFRNLGgod1TI4yg

Edit: your info is just plain wrong as evidenced by this from www.childwelfare.gov
WASHINGTON, D.C. --- An estimated 872,000 children across the country were victims of abuse or neglect in 2004 according to national data released today by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. This number, which is 34,000 lower than last year’s statistic, indicates that about 11.9 out of every 1,000 children were victims of abuse or neglect, compared to last year’s victimization rate of 12.4 per 1,000 children.

same site:
Victims

An estimated 872,000 children were determined to be victims of child abuse or neglect in 2004. The rate of victimization per 1,000 children in the national population has dropped from 13.4 children in 1990 to 11.9 children in 2004. (some DROP eh Jason? Woo Hoo.....)

More than 60 percent of child victims experienced neglect. Almost 18 percent were physically abused, 10 percent were sexually abused, and 7 percent were emotionally maltreated. In addition, 15 percent of cases were associated with "other" types of maltreatment, based on specific State laws and policies.2

Children ages birth to 3 years had the highest rates of victimization at 16.1 per 1,000 children of the same age group. Girls were slightly more likely than boys to be victims.

African-American, Pacific Islander, and American Indian or Alaska Native children had the highest rates of victimization when compared to their national population, with rates of 19.9, 17.6, and 15.5 per 1,000 children, respectively. White children and Hispanic children had rates of approximately 10.7 and 10.4 per 1,000 children, respectively. Asian children had the lowest rate of victimization at 2.9 per 1,000 children.


and your own site had THIS to say:

Because of the methodology of the National Crime Victimization Survey, these figures do not include victims 12 or younger. While there are no reliable annual surveys of sexual assaults on children, (pdf) the Justice Department has estimated that one of six victims are under age 12.

It's Not Always a Stranger Hiding in the Bushes

Contrary to the belief that rapists are hiding in the bushes or in the shadows of the parking garage, almost two-thirds of all rapes were committed by someone who is known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger – 38% of perpetrators were a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 28% were an intimate and 7% were another relative.
National Crime Victimization Survey, 2005

therefore, I maintain that sexual abuse occurs with regularity in a family situation and if a girl does not go to her family for help there is a damn good reason.

[strandinthewind]

yes, to wit:



here are more stats from another site:


so YES, I jolly well DO think that if a girl doesnt come to her family for help, there's a DAMN GOOD REASON.

But, the incidence of pregnancy from these attacks is not that great - at least not according to the stats you posted :shrug:

Note - I am not in any way saying that adults do not abuse children. I am just saying that the indicence of pregnancy resulting from this abuse is insignificant when compared to the indidence of pregnancy resulting from consenual sex.

Again, no 12 year old should be able to have a medical procedure without some adult consenting. That is just wrong.

Also, I noticed you never commented on them having any medical procudure, including cosmetic surgery, which you appeared to condone.

[strandinthewind]

Abuse or neglect does not speak solidly to abuse and, more specifically, sexual abuse, which is all my info spoke to :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

The projection is 235-200 in the house, that is quite a majority, holy sh*t!

[SuzeQuze]

Abuse or neglect does not speak solidly to abuse and, more specifically, sexual abuse, which is all my info spoke to :shrug:

Most girls are going to tell their parents because they need their support. If a 12 yo girl is pregnant she likely had a history of abuse to be so promiscuous. She is probably at the least neglected. So why should she tell her sorry ass parents when she is essentially on her own anyway? Parents need to be aware of what is going on with their kids. The government should just MYOB.

[strandinthewind]

The projection is 235-200 in the house, that is quite a majority, holy sh*t!

I know - it was a bloodbath!

[irishgrl]

Abuse or neglect does not speak solidly to abuse and, more specifically, sexual abuse, which is all my info spoke to :shrug:
my original stats indicated 25% sexual abuse, the later ones indicated 10% sexual abuse. There is still a dearth of reporting however and the true numbers will never be known Im afraid.

as for your ridiculous question about rhinoplasty or liposuction.....I cant imagine any 12 yr old having the $$$$ to get such an operation, much less the desire....most kids know their faces are changing and hope that time will turn them into attractive adults.

[irishgrl]

Most girls are going to tell their parents because they need their support. If a 12 yo girl is pregnant she likely had a history of abuse to be so promiscuous. She is probably at the least neglected. So why should she tell her sorry ass parents when she is essentially on her own anyway? Parents need to be on top of what is going on with their kids. The government should just MYOB.
yes. thank you.

[SuzeQuze]

I know - it was a bloodbath!

Where the exit polls showed corruption was the #1 reason. Now, I know dems have the same capacity for corruption and are not angels. But there is now a balance of power. I learned in my junior high history class how dangerous it can be with the congress and the executive branch are of the same party. We've seen it at its worst over the last 6 yrs.

I have to give props to all of the vote watch orgs. There were hotlines to report fraud and lots of oversight of the election. Kudos to the dems for taking care of that.

[strandinthewind]

Most girls are going to tell their parents because they need their support. If a 12 yo girl is pregnant she likely had a history of abuse to be so promiscuous. She is probably at the least neglected. So why should she tell her sorry ass parents when she is essentially on her own anyway? Parents need to be aware of what is going on with their kids. The government should just MYOB.

If your 12 year old went and got an abortion without telling you -- how would you feel?

I get that the situation described happens, which is why I am for the judicial or other adult override mechanism which obviates the need for parental consent.

[SuzeQuze]

If your 12 year old went and got an abortion without telling you -- how would you feel?

I get that the situation described happens, which is why I am for the judicial or other adult override mechanism which obviates the need for parental consent.

She would tell me because I would be in touch with what was going on with her.

[strandinthewind]

Where the exit polls showed corruption was the #1 reason. Now, I know dems have the same capacity for corruption and are not angels. But there is now a balance of power. I learned in my junior high history class how dangerous it can be with the congress and the executive branch are of the same party. We've seen it at its worst over the last 6 yrs.

I have to give props to all of the vote watch orgs. There were hotlines to report fraud and lots of oversight of the election. Kudos to the dems for taking care of that.

and the abuse was reported on both sides. It will be interesting to see what happens with those reports.

As for one party in control - it is scary as evidenced by the last six years.

[strandinthewind]

She would tell me because I would be in touch with what was going on with her.

Cop out. What if she did not was the question. How would you feel about that? I suspect, you'd be horrified and in disbelief that the state would allow such a thing, though you may not admit it here.

[SuzeQuze]

Cop out. What if she did not was the question. How would you feel about that? I suspect, you'd be horrified and in disbelief that the state would allow such a thing, though you may not admit it here.

Of course I would be horrified but not that the state allowed it but that I wasn't in tune with what was going on with my daughter. But it wouldn't happen so it's a mute point.

[strandinthewind]

. . . as for your ridiculous question about rhinoplasty or liposuction.....I cant imagine any 12 yr old having the $$$$ to get such an operation, much less the desire....most kids know their faces are changing and hope that time will turn them into attractive adults.

You said all medical procedures :shrug:

[irishgrl]

Of course I would be horrified but not that the state allowed it but that I wasn't in tune with what was going on with my daughter. But it wouldn't happen so it's a mute point.
Suze, I lurve you. sesly. (note the usage of appropriately hip slang :lol: )

[strandinthewind]

yes.

lets let the other topic die for now......and concentrate on the Thread topic

BABY KILLER :p :p :p :p :p

[irishgrl]

You said all medical procedures :shrug:
then I will amend it to say "all reproductive choices"

there. happy? you are still being an ARSE about this.

[strandinthewind]

Of course I would be horrified but not that the state allowed it but that I wasn't in tune with what was going on with my daughter. But it wouldn't happen so it's a mute point.

I think you might be just a little pissed at the state, esp. if she died from it. But, I know you will never admit that here.

Also, I agree with you that parents should take the lead, which is why I am for their consent.

[SuzeQuze]

Suze, I lurve you. sesly. (note the usage of appropriately hip slang :lol: )

:xoxo: Chest bump!

[irishgrl]

BABY KILLER :p :p :p :p :p
actually my friend, all three of my pregnancies are walking around today. Ive killed no one. but if I would have felt I couldnt raise a child properly or there was some other significant issue to deal with, I might have made a different choice. We really cant tell another person what to do in their life because we dont know all of the variables they are dealing with. cant you see that?

[SuzeQuze]

I think you might be just a little pissed at the state, esp. if she died from it. But, I know you will never admit that here.

Also, I agree with you that parents should take the lead, which is why I am for their consent.

If she died from it I'd be pissed at the DOCTOR who should not have a LICENSE. I'm going to take Mary's advice now because you're too pig-headed to even see the other side of this argument. I also love how you presume to know who I'd be pissed at.

[strandinthewind]

. . . We really cant tell another person what to do in their life because we dont know all of the variables they are dealing with. cant you see that?

I agree. I never said anything to the contray. I am just saying that a 12 year old ought to have some guidance in this area because a 12 year old hardly is able to make such a life changing decision on her own. That guidance should come from the parents. If they are bad people, then it ought to have to come from elsewhere.

Again, the thought of a 12 year old walking into a hospital and getting a medical procedure on her own, by herself, etc. is horrifying.

[irishgrl]

shoot I deleted that post because we were still debating.........ARRGH!

[strandinthewind]

If she died from it I'd be pissed at the DOCTOR who should not have a LICENSE. I'm going to take Mary's advice now because you're too pig-headed to even see the other side of this argument. I also love how you presume to know who I'd be pissed at.

I presume because I would be. The law is supposed to protect innocents - not let them die by their own hand.

As for being pig headed - that is not mutually exclusive on this board.

[irishgrl]

I agree. I never said anything to the contray. I am just saying that a 12 year old ought to have some guidance in this area because a 12 year old hardly is able to make such a life changing decision on her own. That guidance should come from the parents. If they are bad people, then it ought to have to come from elsewhere.

Again, the thought of a 12 year old walking into a hospital and getting a medical procedure on her own, by herself, etc. is horrifying.
ok, guidance, yes, but not necessarily from her parents. maybe the school counselor or a priest or a best friend (or his/her mom!) but if a child doesnt automatically go to his/her own parent, there is a damn good reason why.

btw, the "life changing" event is the pregnancy itself, not necessarily the abortion.

[strandinthewind]

. . . but if a child doesnt automatically go to his/her own parent, there is a damn good reason why.

I agree and never said anything to the contrary :shrug:

[irishgrl]

I agree and never said anything to the contrary :shrug:
you did, but we can drop it now......please?

[strandinthewind]

. . . btw, the "life changing" event is the pregnancy itself, not necessarily the abortion.

I am unsure about that. Every person I know who has had one is still haunted by it. Even most of the guys whose child it was as well are still haunted by it. There was a series on this as well awhile back. So, the decision to abort is life changing :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

you did . . .

No, I did not. I always said there should be some sort of judicial or other exception to the parental notification. If you can find where I said differently, let's see it.

To help you out - here is my original post (emphasis supplied):

That is such a cock o shiitte.

As with any child, 12 year old girls should not be able to get any medical prodedure without parental consent I cannot believe you support this. In the end though, it is a mountain out of a mole hill because how is that 12 year old girl gonna pay for it? Of course, you'd vote for free abortions for all, unless they are rich, which in that case, the rich should tithe to the abortion clinics and send their cars for the 12 year olds

Moreover, what happens if she goes to some horrid free clinic across the tracks and gets septicemia and dies from it. All because she was not required to let an adult help her.

Note - I would have voted against a parental consent law that did not have a judicial or other adult authorization provision.

Moreover, I repeatedly said abuse occurs.

[SuzeQuze]

I am unsure about that. Every person I know who has had one is still haunted by it. Even most of the guys whose child it was as well are still haunted by it. There was a series on this as well awhile back. So, the decision to abort is life changing :shrug:

Those who give them up for adoption are even more haunted. I think the best course is to have it and get support from adults. But sadly that isn't always possible. Especially if it's the adult parent that got you pregnant. I personally would never have an abortion (unless it were a life-threating situation) but I don't want it over regulated for others.

[strandinthewind]

Those who give them up for adoption are even more haunted . . . .

I have never seen any statistics on that and I have never know anyone who gave one up for adoption. But, it could be true I suppose - though, to me, the haunting of terminating a life or possible life would be more haunting than thinking about what ever happened to the life I gave and then gave up for the benefit of the child.

[irishgrl]

I am unsure about that. Every person I know who has had one is still haunted by it. Even most of the guys whose child it was as well are still haunted by it. There was a series on this as well awhile back. So, the decision to abort is life changing :shrug:
there would be no need to abort if there werent a pregnancy that was problematic, thus the actual life changing event is the pregnancy. The decision to abort is traumatic as well, but the original life changing event is the pregnancy.

I agree with Suze's post 100%.

also, Jason, you insisted that parents be notified, which as I explained, is not always best. so, you are contradicting yourself.

Judicial exception is a crock. What judge is going to understand a child's reluctance to confide in their parents when most judges I know look the other way when solid evidence of child abuse is presented to them? No, I dont trust Judges any more.

[irishgrl]

I have never seen any statistics on that and I have never know anyone who gave one up for adoption. But, it could be true I suppose - though, to me, the haunting of terminating a life or possible life would be more haunting than thinking about what ever happened to the life I gave and then gave up for the benefit of the child.
go to any website that helps adopted kids find their birth parents, or birth parents find their kids. you'll see........

[strandinthewind]

there would be no need to abort if there werent a pregnancy that was problematic, thus the actual life changing event is the pregnancy. The decision to abort is traumatic as well, but the original life changing event is the pregnancy.

Nice spin :rolleyes:


also, Jason, you insisted that parents be notified, which as I explained, is not always best. so, you are contradicting yourself . . . .

No, I said judge or other adult - can't you read?

[strandinthewind]

go to any website that helps adopted kids find their birth parents, or birth parents find their kids. you'll see........

But, she said "more" haunted than one who aborts. I get that both are haunting events and never said otherwise. Why are you putting words in my mouth today?

[SuzeQuze]

But, she said "more" haunted than one who aborts. I get that both are haunting events and never said otherwise. Why are you putting words in my mouth today?

They're more haunted because of carrying the child and the bonding that occurs between mother and baby at that time and during birth.

[irishgrl]

Nice spin :rolleyes:




No, I said judge or other adult - can't you read?
Jason, you said you agreed with PARENTAL notification but wouldnt vote for it unless there was a Judicial exception. Cant YOU read? dont you even know what you posted?

if anyone is spinning here, its YOU my friend...

[irishgrl]

But, she said "more" haunted than one who aborts. I get that both are haunting events and never said otherwise. Why are you putting words in my mouth today?
Im doing no such thing! you just cant seem to keep track of your comments apparently!

[strandinthewind]

Im doing no such thing! you just cant seem to keep track of your comments apparently!

1. Show me where I said that parental notification was the only way.

2. Show me where I said that abuse within the family (which is the reason for the exceptions) never occured.

You cannot and you know it :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Jason, you said you agreed with PARENTAL notification but wouldnt vote for it unless there was a Judicial exception. Cant YOU read? dont you even know what you posted?

if anyone is spinning here, its YOU my friend...

I said (emphasis supplied):

Note - I would have voted against a parental consent law that did not have a judicial or other adult authorization provision.

Poor effort this morning dear.

[strandinthewind]

They're more haunted because of carrying the child and the bonding that occurs between mother and baby at that time and during birth.

Again, where are the studies on this that say it is more haunting that aborting a child? If that is your opinion, that is cool though.

If you do a google of "regret abortion" - you will see example of the regret there as well as a similar google of "regret adoption" - - so it is the use of term "more" I take issue with as I can find no evidence other than opinion.

Again, both events are life changing to say the least.

[irishgrl]

1. Show me where I said that parental notification was the only way.

2. Show me where I said that abuse within the family (which is the reason for the exceptions) never occured.

You cannot and you know it :wavey:
now you're putting words in everyone's mouth. of course you didnt say it was the only way, and I never said you did. What you said was, you SUPPORTED PARENTAL NOTIFICATION with a caveat for Judicial exception. You said you couldnt understand why I would vote against such a bill, and I showed you why.

I never said you said abuse didnt occur but you posted a link that said it was decreasing, which was misleading because what is actually decreasing is the incidence of RAPE, and your website was clear that the statistics didnt apply to those 12 and younger which are in fact covered by MY statistics. so again you were comparing apples and oranges. as usual. so go and spin no more.

[irishgrl]

I said (emphasis supplied):

Note - I would have voted against a parental consent law that did not have a judicial or other adult authorization provision.

Poor effort this morning dear.
what court in the land do you suppose would even recognize SOME OTHER ADULT AUTHORIZATION if it wasnt a PARENT? come ON! give it UP!

[SuzeQuze]

This is insane. Can we agree to disagree and drop it please? This time I'm really dropping it on my end.

[strandinthewind]

what court in the land do you suppose would even recognize SOME OTHER ADULT AUTHORIZATION if it wasnt a PARENT? come ON! give it UP!

Ummm - I've seen it happen, when abuse was proven :shrug:

[irishgrl]

Ummm - I've seen it happen, when abuse was proven :shrug:
Jason, we will never agree, so Im done. Im just glad it didnt pass in MY state.
I love ya dear but sometimes you're just such a MAN!

sending you a virtual hug anyway :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

now you're putting words in everyone's mouth. of course you didnt say it was the only way, and I never said you did. What you said was, you SUPPORTED PARENTAL NOTIFICATION with a caveat for Judicial exception. You said you couldnt understand why I would vote against such a bill, and I showed you why.

I never said you said abuse didnt occur but you posted a link that said it was decreasing, which was misleading because what is actually decreasing is the incidence of RAPE, and your website was clear that the statistics didnt apply to those 12 and younger which are in fact covered by MY statistics. so again you were comparing apples and oranges. as usual. so go and spin no more.


Umm - no. The site I posted to addressed rape and sexual assault, to wit:



2005 Statistics
In 2005, there were 191,670 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assaults according to the 2005 National Crime Victimization Survey (pdf). Of the average annual 200,780 victims in 2004-2005, about 64,080 were victims of completed rape, 51,500 were victims of attempted rape, and 85,210 were victims of sexual assault.
Because of the methodology of the National Crime Victimization Survey, these figures do not include victims 12 or younger. While there are no reliable annual surveys of sexual assaults on children, (pdf) the Justice Department has estimated that one of six victims are under age 12.

which are two different things, at least in the eyes of the law. One involves penetration - the other does not.

As for the 12 and under. I suggest there is no difference in one year, so let's keep it to 13 and above :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

Jason, we will never agree, so Im done. Im just glad it didnt pass in MY state.
I love ya dear but sometimes you're just such a MAN!

sending you a virtual hug anyway :xoxo:

and you my wild Irish femi nazi :xoxo: :angel:

[irishgrl]

Umm - no. The site I posted to addressed rape and sexual assault, to wit:





which are two different things, at least in the eyes of the law. One involves penetration - the other does not.

As for the 12 and under. I suggest there is no difference in one year, so let's keep it to 13 and above :rolleyes:
sweetie, we were talking about 12 year olds, so it is definitely pertinent that there are no stats from your site that speak to this issue.

btw, in case you didnt know it, there is a world of difference between child sexual abuse and rape/sexual assault. one indicates the perpetrator is known, the other indicates the perpetrator is a stranger. two different things.

Jason, you are just wrong. again. but I promised Suze I'd let it go so, Im really done and you can have your last word (It'll kill me but Im doing it for YOU Suze! :lol: )

ps: Jason, you know I love ya, and only you can call me a "wild Irish femi-nazi" and not make me mad! Dont you feel a song coming on?

[strandinthewind]

"You Shook Me All Night Long"

[Rickypt]

He is charmless and had nothing concrete to say about what he wanted to do. I thought he was reactionary. He just bitched about Arnold and offered nothing else. If he's the best the Dems can come up with, they can't get my vote.


Yeah, Angelides is awful. I voted for the Green. Arnold, though, is a bit of a fraud in my opinion. He reached out to Democrats and did some okay stuff this year in order to be elected. Which was the complete opposite of his strategy last year. Let's see what happens next year now that he doesn't need to run again.

....and POMBO IS GONE!

Couldn't be a more glorious morning. :woohoo:

[estranged4life]

I also like the no consideration of race or gender in college applications. I think any special consideration should be based on poverty alone and this whole "we need to correct past mistakes by giving people a free ride" is for th birds. Why should some son of a black millionaire get any special treatment because some anscestor he probably never knew was treated poorly as many in this country were back then - just ask the Irish or the Chinese?


I am Irish, but also Cherokee. As it is I can attend college in either Oklahoma or Arkansas at a fraction of what others may have to pay in tuition because I 'could' play the race card and state on the application I am of Cherokee descent!

Trust me, do I look Indian to anyone who has met me or seen my pictures? No. Do I know anything about my ancestors who were also Cherokee? No.


The whole "correcting past mistakes by giving people a free ride" is a issue the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is currently going through.

The 'Freedman' band of Cherokee's (Slaves who were freed and decided to live among the Cherokee's, who were somewhat more accepting than other tribes) are wanting more power/say/$$$$, But the thing is they are not Cherokee Indian whatsoever, Their names are not listed in the tribal roll books.

The chief of the Cherokee Nation asked the tribal members what they thought about this issue and enough names were collected & verified to bring this issue to a vote (It will easily pass)...BUT, the Freedman are trying to block the vote & the ballot.

Interesting **** here in the land of the Redman...

I'm staying out of that one.

[Rickypt]

I think so. Maddow just came on AAR and announced Montana. VA isn't in yet. But just with Montana we have it?

No, we need both.

Boy, Arizona has really changed since I lived there in the 80's. Cheers to that state for defeating the marriage ban. They also knocked out one or two House Republicans. AZ will be key to the Democrats taking the White House in '08.

[irishgrl]

No, we need both.

Boy, Arizona has really changed since I lived there in the 80's. Cheers to that state for defeating the marriage ban. They also knocked out one or two House Republicans. AZ will be key to the Democrats taking the White House in '08.
do you see that happening? I havent even begun to look that far forward....
and who would we run anyway?

[Rickypt]

Affirmative Action in college is not about addressing the sins of slavery, but acknowledging the racism of today that creates inequities in education. At some point, a.a. will be unnecessary, but we aren't there yet.

However, I agree with Strand that economics are the main factor. I would have some sort of blend of poverty/race in creating affirmative action policy.

[Rickypt]

do you see that happening? I havent even begun to look that far forward....
and who would we run anyway?

I think the best chance of getting Arizona, New Mexico, etc. is to have Bill Richardson on the ticket.

[strandinthewind]

. . . The 'Freedman' band of Cherokee's (Slaves who were freed and decided to live among the Cherokee's, who were somewhat more accepting than other tribes) are wanting more power/say/$$$$, But the thing is they are not Cherokee Indian whatsoever, Their names are not listed in the tribal roll books.

The chief of the Cherokee Nation asked the tribal members what they thought about this issue and enough names were collected & verified to bring this issue to a vote (It will easily pass)...BUT, the Freedman are trying to block the vote & the ballot.

Interesting **** here in the land of the Redman...

I'm staying out of that one.

That is some interesting shiitte indeed :eek:

[Rickypt]

I guess victory isn't 100% sweet.....Nancy Pelosi has to have lunch with Bush tomorrow.

[strandinthewind]

Affirmative Action in college is not about addressing the sins of slavery, but acknowledging the racism of today that creates inequities in education. At some point, a.a. will be unnecessary, but we aren't there yet.

However, I agree with Strand that economics are the main factor. I would have some sort of blend of poverty/race in creating affirmative action policy.


I believe AA was started to correct the wrongs of the past, which presumably have carried over into the current day.

Hhere are some interesting articles:

http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/caleb/aff-action.html

http://www.umich.edu/~mrev/archives/1995/11-15-95/affirm.html

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V124/N7/crandall7.7c.html

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/pages/news2001.html

My point is enough is enough. If the sins of the past have not yet been significantly corrected in 40 years, then it is time to fix the system as it obviously is not working. That is why I look to poverty alone. I mean if you were a third generation, middle class black kid, you do not deserve to be helped more than any other kid in your situation or more than a poor whi8te kid who has no hope of higher education, which is I think what you agreed to.

What I am trying to avoid is someone like an exceptionally wealthy, rather dumb, blonde hair blue eyes friend of mine who got his school paid for because something like his great, great, great grandfather was an American Indian. That should be prevented as he certainly knew nothing of this ancestoral lineage that got him in, paid for him, etc.

[irishgrl]

I guess victory isn't 100% sweet.....Nancy Pelosi has to have lunch with Bush tomorrow.
she probably better bring along an officlal "taster".......

[strandinthewind]

I guess victory isn't 100% sweet.....Nancy Pelosi has to have lunch with Bush tomorrow.

Are they serving crow?

[Rickypt]

I believe AA was started to correct the wrongs of the past, which presumably have carried over into the current day.

Hhere are some interesting articles:

http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/caleb/aff-action.html

http://www.umich.edu/~mrev/archives/1995/11-15-95/affirm.html

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V124/N7/crandall7.7c.html

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/pages/news2001.html

My point is enough is enough. If the sins of the past have not yet been significantly corrected in 40 years, then it is time to fix the system as it obviously is not working. That is why I look to poverty alone. I mean if you were a third generation, middle class black kid, you do not deserve to be helped more than any other kid in your situation or more than a poor whi8te kid who has no hope of higher education, which is I think what you agreed to.

What I am trying to avoid is someone like an exceptionally wealthy, rather dumb, blonde hair blue eyes friend of mine who got his school paid for because something like his great, great, great grandfather was an American Indian. That should be prevented as he certainly knew nothing of this ancestoral lineage that got him in, paid for him, etc.

Yeah, I think we pretty much agree on this. Fix the system sounds good to me.

[SortaSavageLike]

Dear Montana and Virginia:

You're wasting my time! Why don't you make up your minds? :mad:

[Livia]

I don't have time to go thru this whole thread, so if this has already been posted, sorry!

Landslide reference in political blog:

http://greensclues.blogspot.com/2006/11/democrats-win-house-poised-to-take.html

Wednesday, November 08, 2006

Democrats win House, poised to take Senate

Well, they'd been afraid of changing
'Cause they'd built their life around him
But time makes you bolder
Even children get older
And they're getting older, too

So take their love, take it down
If he climbs a mountain and he turns around
And if he sees their reflection in the snow covered hills
Well the landslide bring it down

I always said Stevie Nicks was good for any occasion.

The Democrats are clueless and whining, but the Republicans are incompetent and arrogant. Neither is all that hot, really - but a wake-up call to a stubborn, out of touch President is a pretty good result, I suppose.
posted by Jason Bo Green at 4:49 AM

[irishgrl]

Here is a really nice breakdown of State initiatives, with results:

A look at ballot measures nationwide

A look at ballot measures across the country, broken down by major issues and then by state.
___

State constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage:
Arizona. Rejected
Colorado. Approved
Idaho. Approved
South Carolina. Approved
South Dakota. Approved
Tennessee. Approved
Virginia. Approved
Wisconsin. Approved
___

Limit eminent domain seizures:
Arizona. Approved
California. Rejected
Florida. Approved
Georgia. Approved
Idaho. Rejected
Michigan. Approved
North Dakota. Approved
New Hampshire. Approved
Nevada. Approved
Oregon. Approved
South Carolina. Approved
___

Raise state minimum wage:
Arizona. Approved
Colorado. Approved
Missouri. Approved
Montana. Approved
Nevada. Approved
Ohio. Approved
____

Increase tobacco taxes:
Arizona. Approved
California. Rejected
Missouri. Rejected
South Dakota. Approved
___

Cap state spending:
Maine. Rejected
Nebraska. Rejected
Oregon. Rejected
___

STATE-BY-STATE:

Alaska:
Tax North Slope oil companies $1 billion a year until a natural gas pipeline is built. Rejected.
___

Arizona:
Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Rejected
Deny bail to illegal immigrants charged with serious felony. Approved
Make English the state's official language. Approved
Bar illegal immigrants from receiving punitive damages in lawsuits. Approved
Bar illegal immigrants from receiving certain government subsidies. Approved

Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Award $1 million to a random voter each general election. Rejected
Limit eminent domain seizures; require compensation for adverse land-use rulings. Approved

Hike tobacco taxes. Approved
Prohibit smoking in public places. Approved
Prohibit smoking in public places, but exempt bars. Rejected
__

California:

Require parental notification before minors could have abortion. Rejected.
Tax oil producers to fund alternative energy programs. Rejected
Implement public financing of campaigns. Rejected
Limit eminent domain seizures; require compensation for adverse land-use rulings. Rejected
Hike tobacco taxes. Rejected
Toughen penalties and parole terms for sex offenders. Approved
_

Colorado:

Legalize possession of up to one ounce of marijuana. Rejected
Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Ban gifts from lobbyists to public officials. Approved
Ban same-sex marriage. Approved
Allow same-sex domestic partnerships. Rejected
Impose term limits on top judges. Rejected
___

Florida:

Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
___

Georgia:

Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
___

Idaho:

Limit eminent domain seizures; require compensation for adverse land-use rulings. Rejected
Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Approved
__

Maine:

Place cap on state spending. Rejected
___

Massachusetts:

Allow food stores to sell wine. Rejected
___

Michigan:

Scrap affirmative action programs in university admissions and government hiring. Approved
Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
___

Missouri:

Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Hike tobacco taxes. Rejected
Allow stem cell research, including on embryos. Approved
___

Montana:

Raise state minimum wage. Approved
___

Nebraska:

Place cap on state spending. Rejected
___

Nevada:

Legalize possession of up to one ounce of marijuana. Rejected
Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Limit eminent domain seizures: Approved
___

New Hampshire:

Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
___

North Dakota:

Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
___

Ohio:

Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Ban smoking in public places. Approved
Ban smoking in public places, but exempts bars. Rejected
___

Oregon:

Require parental notification before minor could have abortion. Rejected
Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
Place cap on state spending. Rejected
Impose term limits on legislators. Rejected
___

Rhode Island:

Restore voting rights to felons on probation and parole. Approved

___

South Carolina:

Limit eminent domain seizures. Approved
Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Approved
___

South Dakota:

Ban all abortions, except to save pregnant woman's life. Rejected
Legalize medical marijuana. Rejected
Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Approved
Hike tobacco taxes. Approved
Strip judges of immunity. Rejected
___

Tennessee:

Ban gay marriage. Approved
___

Virginia:

Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Approved
___

Washington:

Require large utility companies to increase renewable energy sources.
Require compensation for adverse land-use rulings. Rejected

___

Wisconsin:

Ban gay marriage and civil unions. Approved


I must say, CA voters really surprised me: They voted against taxing big oil and against banning eminent domain seizures.........I cant understand that :shrug:

[estranged4life]

Award $1 million to a random voter each general election. Rejected

WTH? That sounds like 'enticement' to me.


As for tobacco taxes, I live in the state with one of the highest tobacco taxes in the US-A generic pack of cigarettes will run you about $2.50-$2.80 whereas a pack of Marlboro will be around $4.50 a pack (The tobacco tax law passed a few years ago, mainly to help those tobacco users who do not have health coverage to pay for medical treatment.)

[carrie721]

Ohio:

Raise state minimum wage. Approved
Ban smoking in public places. Approved
Ban smoking in public places, but exempts bars. Rejected

i have to say these results totally shocked me. it was time for a raise in min. wage, but i'm totally surprised by the smoking ban.

[Nixxxed]

Dear Montana and Virginia:

You're wasting my time! Why don't you make up your minds? :mad:

Especially since neither Burns nor Allen believe in recounts:

*********

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/8/121127/066

MT-Sen, VA-Sen: Allen and Burns don't believe in recounts by kos
Wed Nov 08, 2006 at 09:11:27 AM PST

Both Allen and Burns will have the right to call for a recount, it seems. Yet given their prior public comments on recounts, we should expect them to pass.

Burns press release, 11/28/2000:

On November 28, 2000, when the Florida election results were certified, Conrad Burns said Gore "appears more and more like a man who wants to win at any cost." Burns added, "It is time, as some have said, for Vice President Gore to stop being a litigant and start being a Patriot. The good of our nation is greater than any one man, and it is time for Mr. Gore to end these challenges and bow out gracefully."

More Burns in the 11/30/2000 Great Falls Tribune:

At the end of November 2000, Conrad Burns said he would like to see an end to Gore's legal efforts in Florida. Burns said, "Mr. Gore should step aside and let the Bush team begin its orderly transition to the presidency."

And Allen on the Today show 11/8/2000:

The morning after Election Day 2000, when Florida was counting absentee ballots, George Allen said, "we'll need to move America forward as soon as those votes are cast."

I'm sure these former Senators will stand by their words, and not develop a double standard now. Right?

Right?

[Nixxxed]

I don't have time to go thru this whole thread, so if this has already been posted, sorry!

Landslide reference in political blog:

http://greensclues.blogspot.com/2006/11/democrats-win-house-poised-to-take.html

Wednesday, November 08, 2006

Democrats win House, poised to take Senate

Well, they'd been afraid of changing
'Cause they'd built their life around him
But time makes you bolder
Even children get older
And they're getting older, too

So take their love, take it down
If he climbs a mountain and he turns around
And if he sees their reflection in the snow covered hills
Well the landslide bring it down

I always said Stevie Nicks was good for any occasion.

The Democrats are clueless and whining, but the Republicans are incompetent and arrogant. Neither is all that hot, really - but a wake-up call to a stubborn, out of touch President is a pretty good result, I suppose.
posted by Jason Bo Green at 4:49 AM
Nice find as always Livia! However, this is one time I wish the Dixie Chicks cover of the song had been mentioned. :laugh:

[estranged4life]

The AP has declared Tester (D) the winner over Burns (R) for the Senate race in Montana, Which would place the Democrats at 50 Senate seats.

[irishgrl]

Dems Lead In The Senate!!!!!

[strandinthewind]

Dems Lead In The Senate!!!!!

Not with Cheney - right?

[Rickypt]

Not with Cheney - right?

Dems don't officially take the Senate until the VA race is called.