SYW production

[stefan]

Hi folks,
I once read something about Stevie not being happy with the production of her songs on SYW in retrospect. Has anybody more information about this or perhaps knows the link to the article. What was her issue?
Thanks,
Stefan

[nightbird89]

I think it was posted on stevie-nicks.info a while ago. i think they were sorta twisting wat she sed, tho. remember on vh1 all access she sed she thought it was a great record... who noes, sum1 has 2 ask her personally:p

[SpyNote]

Was it this one? Stevie was a little grumpy in parts of this interview. The writer does make a strange connection between her thoughts on making a new record and working on Say You Will.

A magical life
Sunday, 12 February 2006
By Guy Blackman
The Age (Australia)

Stevie Nicks, 57, says life is a lot calmer now.

One of the many rumours that have trailed along behind Stevie Nicks since she joined an ailing Fleetwood Mac in 1975 and helped to turn them into one of the most successful bands in pop history, is that she is some kind of witch. Some rather credulous people believe her lyrics in songs such as Rhiannon, Gold Dust Woman and even the recent Sorcerer reference a demi-monde of white magic and wiccan ritual. As further evidence they point to her music publishing company, Welsh Witch Music, an allusion to both the song Rhiannon and the Celtic lunar goddess who inspired it.

Perhaps during the heady years of the 1970s and '80s - a time when, as Nicks has admitted, she took so much cocaine that "you could put a big gold ring through my septum" - the singer's lifestyle was wild and magical enough for these kind of rumours to flourish. But now, at the age of 57, Nicks is as far from witchy as you can imagine, and no longer willing to humour such romantic delusions.

"I've become very neat in my older age," Nicks says in her famous husky drawl. The living room in her Los Angeles mansion is all red velvet and hanging palms, she tells me, with a crystal ball on her coffee table and elegant candles on her grand piano. But there is an edge to all this orderliness that is almost compulsive. "I used to be a lot crazier, but now I really want everything to be beautiful, and it makes me nervous when things aren't," she says. "I'll get up and straighten up everything if I have to, even in a hotel room."

That revelation offers a little glimpse of the interior life of Stevie Nicks, but with her solo recording career now a fading memory and the recent Fleetwood Mac reunion a creative disappointment, it seems there's nothing to stop her speaking her mind. So she dismisses the mysticism in her songwriting, arguably the very trait that has earned her millions of fans worldwide, by reducing it to an act of calculation. "I write in codes, because I want my songs to appeal to everyone," she says. "From the beginning, I've had fans that are 20, 30 years older, so those people are now like 102, or dead! The first bright idea for a lyric comes, and then I go back and I say, 'Well, that line is really too heavy, I'm going to take that out, because that line might turn off one generation'. I'm very careful to cover all bases."

Can it really be the case that, beneath the gauzy gold-dust image, the real Stevie Nicks is so careful, pragmatic and razor-sharp? It's worth remembering that in 1973, when her pre-Fleetwood album with boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham stiffed, it was Nicks who worked menial jobs to pay the rent and to keep their dreams alive, each night stepping over the passed-out bodies of Buckingham and his muso buddies as she returned home from waiting tables or cleaning houses. In other words, Nicks is a woman who has always known what she wants and is willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

But these days there's not that much left to aim for. Fleetwood Mac have sold more than 70 million records since Nicks joined the group, while her six solo albums (beginning with 1981's now classic Bella Donna) have sold in excess of 20 million. Nicks is an all-pervasive element of modern pop culture, maybe not as influential now as at her height, but still a figure to be referenced (mockingly or otherwise) everywhere from South Park to The Simpsons, and to be covered by artists as young and current as Lindsay Lohan and Joss Stone.

Little surprise, then, that she feels no pressure to produce new material. "It's like, does it really matter at this point?" she says when asked if she is working on a follow-up to her last solo album, 2001's Trouble In Shangri-La. "Do people really want to hear a whole other solo record, when you can get one or two songs for I-Tunes? I'm thinking about a way you could just put out a few songs once in a while, maybe four songs that you loved, instead of having to figure out 16 songs, many of which you might not love."

The singer could be making a backhanded reference to Say You Will, the 2003 Fleetwood Mac album that Nicks recorded without long-time ally and confidante Christine McVie, who left the band in 1998 in favour of a quiet life in London. Originally conceived as a Lindsey Buckingham solo project, Say You Will came to resemble two separate albums awkwardly squashed together, with nine songs apiece from Buckingham and Nicks alternating in strict succession.

"I'd be totally lying if I said that record is what I wanted, because it isn't," she says. "I argued with Lindsey all the way through it, and he argued with me. It wasn't very much fun, and I wasn't that pleased with the music. I felt my demos were better, which of course is easy to say, but I did. And what can I say? It wasn't a lot of fun."

It seems that almost 30 years after the end of her romantic relationship with Buckingham there's still tension. But you would never have known it in February 2004, at the Melbourne show of the 135-date Say You Will tour. Buckingham kissed Nicks' hand several times during the show, while she draped her arms tenderly over his shoulders as he played guitar.

According to Nicks, that tenderness, like her witchy lyrics, was just for show. "We are extremely professional, and when we get up there on the stage we get lost on the fun parts of the show," she explains. "So it's never going to show anything bad, because we're always going to rise above and concentrate on the good things."

Nicks' successful battle against addiction has also improved her ability to rise above. After two decades spent in the thrall of cocaine, alcohol and the prescription sedative Klonopin (which she describes as the worst thing of all), Nicks has been drug-free since 1994. So the past 12 years have been perhaps less colourful, but definitely smoother sailing. "My life is calmer now because I'm not on drugs, but it's also wonderful and exciting because I'm not on drugs. A lot of the time during those last four or five years before I went into rehab, I really didn't think I was going to make it out alive. So I'm thrilled every day that I did."

She lives alone in Los Angeles and has no room for a man in her life, preferring the freedom to be able to take off for Australia for six weeks, fly to Washington to visit injured soldiers, or play a corporate function in New York. "If I meet somebody, that's great," she says. "But if that doesn't happen I'm not lonely. I'm happy and I have lots of fun by myself. I'm not looking for somebody to fill up my life."

Nicks is similarly at peace with her decision to favour her career over starting a family. "I have lots of kids," she says happily, meaning her niece, four god-daughters and one godson. "It's much more fun to be the crazy auntie than it is to be the mom, anyway. I couldn't do what I'm doing if I had kids."

Even the death last year of her 80-year-old father Jess has made little impact on Nicks' serenity. "I have had a very easy time with it, and the reason is that he did 55 of those 135 Fleetwood Mac shows with us," she says. "He had such a great time, he had a little electric scooter and he was buzzing all over the venues."

Six months after the end of the Fleetwood Mac reunion tour, her father joined her again on a short US solo tour with Don Henley. But this time things were very different. "I said out loud to everybody, 'In my heart I really wish that he would just go on to the next plane, because he is not having fun'," Nicks says. " 'He doesn't feel well, he can't buzz around in his scooter any more, someone is wheeling him around in a wheelchair, and he is hating it.' "

The next night, Jess Nicks fell in his hotel room. A week later, he was dead. "I really took it with the grace he would have wanted," his daughter says. "I feel he pushes me towards the beauty in my life. So it's been OK. I'm not sad, I'm just glad that he's not in pain any more."

This confrontation with mortality has led Nicks to review her own life, and the singer is considering writing an autobiography, though she jokes that the people involved aren't yet old enough that she could safely name names. "I have to wait till we're 90, and then nobody would care," she says with a laugh.

And despite the ups and downs, the struggles with lovers, bandmates and addiction, Nicks is well aware that she has led a charmed - some might say magical - life. "I've had a lot of amazing experiences, and it is all good," she says. "Even the bad stuff is interlaced with the good, so it wouldn't be just one depressing monologue. It's a fabulous story. A Cinderella story for all of us, not just me."

Stevie Nicks performs with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra at Rod Laver Arena on Saturday. Tel: 132 849

[Johnny Stew]

"I wasn't that pleased with the music. I felt my demos were better, which of course is easy to say, but I did."Personally, I loved what Lindsey did with all of Stevie's songs, but many fans' opinions seem to reflect Stevie's own... especially in regards to "Running Through The Garden," "Smile At You," "Goodbye Baby," "Thrown Down," and the little snippets we've heard of the demos for "Destiny Rules" and "Silver Girl."

[Kelly]

I think there are quite a few other articles where she raved about SYW and Lindsey's production. There is also one where she says she knows LB would never put out a song she was unhappy with, all she had to do was tell him if she did not like something and he would change it. She stressed that point.

[Johnny Stew]

I think there are quite a few other articles where she raved about SYW and Lindsey's production. There is also one where she says she knows LB would never put out a song she was unhappy with, all she had to do was tell him if she did not like something and he would change it. She stressed that point.It often seems that they sugarcoat things during the promotion of an album, and then talk about how they REALLY felt afterwards.

I remember Lindsey saying what a breeze it was to record 'Tango' in comparison to their other albums, and how much he enjoyed it. I think he even said, "this was the most fun we've ever had in the studio."
Now when he talks about it, he says that things were crazy and stressful in the studio and he feared that it would only get worse on the road.

[jwd]

"I'd be totally lying if I said that record is what I wanted, because it isn't," she says. "I argued with Lindsey all the way through it, and he argued with me. It wasn't very much fun, and I wasn't that pleased with the music. I felt my demos were better, which of course is easy to say, but I did. And what can I say? It wasn't a lot of fun."

I can honestly say that I'd be perfectly content if Stevie never did another album with Lindsey/FM again. Especially after seeing how much she has come to life on both her Gold Dust Tour with and without Henley, and this year, singing fabulously with Petty and the Heartbreakers. As Petty said so aptly in another article, Stevie is in a good place right now, singing better or as good as she ever has. I agree, and that makes me happy.


Thanks for posting that article Daniel. Interesting reading.

[Johnny Stew]

By the way, Kelly... I do remember an early article right before 'SYW' was released, where Lindsey talked about feeling hurt that Stevie hadn't complimented him yet about his work on her songs. He also said something to the effect that he felt she needed time to reflect and absorb the album.

[Kelly]

By the way, Kelly... I do remember an early article right before 'SYW' was released, where Lindsey talked about feeling hurt that Stevie hadn't complimented him yet about his work on her songs. He also said something to the effect that he felt she needed time to reflect and absorb the album.


Yup, and when the interviewer told Stevie that Lindsey had said that, she seemed shocked and said she gave him all the credit for crafting her sparse songs into what they were. I don't think any of us know how she REALLY feels about SYW. Maybe she hates the songs, maybe she loves them. She sounds a bit grumpy in other parts of the above interview too, so perhaps she was mad at LB that day. Her opinions do tend to change like the weather, so who knows.

[SpyNote]

She even changes opinions in her songs over time! :laugh:

1981
"Well it's one more link in the chain/I can't believe that"

1986 (possibly even earlier)
"Well Mick said Stevie this is one more link in the chain/Well I have to believe him"

[DestinyRules]

Personally, I loved what Lindsey did with all of Stevie's songs, but many fans' opinions seem to reflect Stevie's own... especially in regards to "Running Through The Garden," "Smile At You," "Goodbye Baby," "Thrown Down," and the little snippets we've heard of the demos for "Destiny Rules" and "Silver Girl."
The one song I could definitely point to Lindsey making worse was "Silver Hurl"... I mean "Silver Girl", which was slightly listenable in its demo form and is flat out atrocious in its recorded version.

I liked the "wall of sound" version of "Thrown Down," but I think Lindsey did some really nice things with that song. "Destiny Rules" gained some great subtlety from Lindsey's production (not to mention killer guitar work).

[FMtastic]

I can honestly say that I'd be perfectly content if Stevie never did another album with Lindsey/FM again.

I agree with you, though my reasons are different. I think SYW is already aging poorly and that's because Stevie's songs weren't that good. Silver Girl is not only incredibly dull musically but the lyrics sound like they were composed by a drowsy fourth grader. Several of the songs sound like they should have been in an 80s record and I believe this happened because she wanted them that way. None of Lindsey's songs sound like that. When he took her songs in an unexpected direction, like the one about 9/11, whatever it was called, it seemed to miss the target in a way. It's as if he was restrained in what he could have really done with it because maybe she didn't want him to go too far.

Lindsey needs to work only on his own stuff or with artists who are completely open to letting him take control, and that is not the case with Stevie Nicks anymore.

[vermicious knid]

and the little snippets we've heard of the demos for "Destiny Rules" and "Silver Girl."

Yes! I still want that version of "Destiny Rules" that you hear in the documentary.

[Phoenix]

I KNOW!:nod: so do I. Seriously, I love all the demo "snippetts". from the new songs she wrote. ANOTHER reason why she needs to just record and do another album on her own. (and of course, mick and john could play on that album too:cool: )

[foxyluva]

The only song I like more as a demo is "Silver Girl" - it sounds funny on SYW...

[ELIUD]

I don't really appreciate demos all that much. They just don't sound ready to me but for a few exceptions. And I LOVE Lindsey's production on Stevie's songs for the most part and think if the two of them were f*cking again they'd make better albums. I want a new Buckingham Nicks collaboration.

[jwd]

I think SYW is already aging poorly and that's because Stevie's songs weren't that good. Silver Girl is not only incredibly dull musically but the lyrics sound like they were composed by a drowsy fourth grader. Several of the songs sound like they should have been in an 80s record and I believe this happened because she wanted them that way. None of Lindsey's songs sound like that. When he took her songs in an unexpected direction, like the one about 9/11, whatever it was called, it seemed to miss the target in a way. It's as if he was restrained in what he could have really done with it because maybe she didn't want him to go too far

I take it you're a Lindsey fan! :laugh: To each his own I suppose. But when I find myself playing SYW, which is rarely, I usually play Stevie's songs. I know, I'm more of a Stevie fan. I think you give Stevie way too much credit for having total control over how her songs turn out, at least within the confines of FM. It is a band after all, and Lindsey usually takes the lion's share role in the production.


Seems to me at this point, that Lindsey and Stevie should just "Go Their OWn Ways". I think they're both a lot happier that way. Lindsey creates some incredible music on his own, without the "interference" of Stevie. It won't sell too many copies ;), but that's not what being an artist is all about, RIGHT?! And I don't think that Stevie is inspired by Bucky anymore. Put her in a room with Henley, Petty, Crow, Shanks, or some other artist/producer and she soars. Spread your wings and fly little Stevie. :)

Runs off to play TISL................

[FMtastic]

I think you give Stevie way too much credit for having total control over how her songs turn out, at least within the confines of FM. It is a band after all, and Lindsey usually takes the lion's share role in the production.


If you compare Running About the Garden in SYW with the demo, it isn't that different, from a production standpoint, and that is one of the songs I think really sound like Loverboy in 1981 or something. There are other songs, like the title track, that weren't that different from the demos. Lindsey messed with Illume and that last song, Goodbye Baby, but the others sound like they were kept as she wanted them.



Seems to me at this point, that Lindsey and Stevie should just "Go Their OWn Ways"..

I couldn't agree more.

[diamondsnake]

I have to say that I love Stevie's SYW songs and Running Through The Garden has to be one of my favorite Stevie rockers. If they would have replaced "Silver Girl" with "Not Make Believe" and gotten rid of "Come" it would be a perfect album to me. I know a lot of people like "Come", but I am just not a fan.

My favorite Stevie songs on the album are RTTG, Illume, SYW, and Destiny Rules. Although I will admit that I don't listen to the album regularly anymore. I have been playing "The Dance" a lot lately. I really just want some new music to play because I am getting a tad bored with the same old same old. Come on Stevie, get in the studio!

[wheart]

I can honestly say that I'd be perfectly content if Stevie never did another album with Lindsey/FM again. Especially after seeing how much she has come to life on both her Gold Dust Tour with and without Henley, and this year, singing fabulously with Petty and the Heartbreakers. As Petty said so aptly in another article, Stevie is in a good place right now, singing better or as good as she ever has. I agree, and that makes me happy.


Thanks for posting that article Daniel. Interesting reading.

I completely agree! To me, Stevie is a little "weighted down" with the Mac, both on record and on stage. The solo Stevie really comes to life

[strandinthewind]

I maintain and will always do so that La Nicks did SYW as a present or favor to LB, whose career was in the toilet. Granted, she got benefit from it too, but she really had to juggle her life and success (albeit somewhat lesser financially but not critically) outside of FM to do so. I think LB did what he could with her songs while she was on the road with TISL, but he lost his flair with them and IMO tricked them up with all the gimmick crap that he loves, e.g. that helium voice - OY! Then, she delivers these amazing vocals on RTTG and SAY and he turns them into something with lackluster production. I am not saying he did this to be mean to her; I think he thought he was doing good by her. But, the songs are just dull to these ears.

In the end, I do not care for his production of her demos on SYW and likely never will.

On edit - I think La Nicks is a pragmatist and she thought the SYW songs were good enough to go out - so she was happy from that vantage point. That, however, is wildly different than being totally thrilled about the way they were produced - which is what she says in that interview :shrug:

But, yes, they have to sugarcoat it for the press surrounding the release and FM is always gonna play the LB/La Nicks tension card.

[JazmenFlowers]

^^^
couldn't agree more.

[FMtastic]

I maintain and will always do so that La Nicks did SYW as a present or favor to LB, whose career was in the toilet.

Is this supposition or has any of the band members said something to this effect? If they have, I haven't seen it. I am aware, however, that prior projects, such as Tango, were more about helping other band members out of a hole, not Lindsey.

Lindsey's solo career was over, yes, but his career with the band was just as alive as any other band member's, and I don't think the band got together for SYW at Lindsey's suggestion. It wasn't the case for The Dance and it wasn't the case for SYW, unless of course you can share statements from band members that would contradict this.

[strandinthewind]

Well, LB said his career was in the toilet because Warner's dropped GOS. So, what was he going to do? Moreover, why would La Nicks come back to FM? Enchanted and TISL were mostly commercial successes and they certainly were, esp. TISL, critical successes. So, what other than loyalty would make her come back to the tension filled FM drama? Would you go back? I am pretty sure I would not - except out of loyalty. Remember, there was talk of a FM recording after The Dance, but them CM did not want to participate if it meant touring. La Nicks released two records and did two tours in the meantime (no pun intended :cool: ) -- So, she really did not need FM as she did in 97. Conversly, LB has pretty much always need FM from a commercial standpoint and her certainly did after GOS was a no go.

I am not demeaning LB and glorifying La Nicks. I am just saying La Nicks is the commercial draw and pretty much always has been. I mean TISL and SYW sold or shipped roughly the same amount (within like 100,000 I think). That speaks volumes.

[FMtastic]

Well, LB said his career was in the toilet because Warner's dropped GOS.

I remember Lindsey mentioning something to the effect that he decided to pull the record because he and Warner couldn't agree on some things, in light of changes in management at the label. Then he got philosophical and said it was more important to get the music out, even if it meant doing it as part of Fleetwood Mac.

I am just saying La Nicks is the commercial draw and pretty much always has been. I mean TISL and SYW sold or shipped roughly the same amount (within like 100,000 I think). That speaks volumes.

Yes, she has been perceived as the biggest commercial draw through the years, but that still doesn't mean she went back to FM to get Lindsey's career out of the toilet, which is what you said earlier. Did she go back out of loyalty? Sure, loyalty to the band.

As for who was the biggest commercial draw, you start to really wonder when you realize how poorly SYW did in the record stores. It had the weakest sales of all the albums with Buckingham and Nicks. What it lacked was Christine, and it seems the public wasn't too interested in buying FM music without Christine, Stevie's draw notwithstanding. Stevie's Enchanged and Sangri-La commercial success was limited to her core fan base, anyway. It's not as if she was selling at Bella Donna levels.

[stefan]

Conversly, LB has pretty much always need FM from a commercial standpoint and her certainly did after GOS was a no go.


No. Lindsey doesn't need the commercial success. He can have two warm meals a day with or without new records. :cool: That he would like to have a commercial success with his work is a sure thing for me, but that are two different things.
The point is. Lindsey got used to this major label and attention thing. This whole crappy Stevie and Lindsey drama show-thing they did on the concerts are part of this too. One could blame him for doing so and a lot of fans did so.
He could have released his material over the years on smaller independent labels like some others do too. He opted not to do so, therefore we had to wait 14 years for a new album. Surely Stevie is not needed to get an album out that he wanted to get out. It did help to get it out by Warners for sure.

SpyNote, thanks for digging the interview article out.
I look at her songs on SYW in a different way. Stevies solo outings to me are very much lacking of something. There are 2-3 songs on here solo things I could appreciate but most of her stuff is just redundant and boring to me. (esp since OTOTM) TISL makes no exception. Her FM songs are`nt suffering from that effect as much to me. Of course songs like Silver girl are extremely hard to stand through. That kind of thing would fit on her solo outings better imo. However I like Illume very much, as it is something completely different and had a fresher sound to my ears. RTTG is of course an 80's style production and I wonder if that was an intentional thing or not. I assume it was. On TITN it would have been perfect. But be that as it may, I like this one, it also is something different. There are some songs on SYW I don`t like too much too but my point is. Stevies SYW songs alone put together on a virtual solo album still sound much more interesting to my ears than f.e. TISL.

[strandinthewind]

No. No other member of FM has sold 1/10 of what La Nicks has sold in her solo career - worldwide or just in the US. Most recently, TISL sold somewhere around 700,000 copies - which is close to what SYW sold. Moreover, whose songs got radio time on The Dance? Finally, she toured rather successfully last Summer with no recoird to supprt - a feat neither LB nor CM could pull off to such crowds (and sadly so) - So, La Nicks clearly is the commercial draw. I think that pisses so many people off, which I will never get because facts are facts. It does not mean she is better per se than any other FM member. It just means she has an added talent of being coveted by people and she consistently works at that.

LB went on about how the time was bad at Warner's etc. The bottom line is no matter what he says, Warner's would have chomped at the bit had it thought it had a commercial success on its hands.

[strandinthewind]

No. Lindsey doesn't need the commercial success. He can have two warm meals a day with or without new records. :cool: That he would like to have a commercial success with his work is a sure thing for me, but that are two different things.
The point is. Lindsey got used to this major label and attention thing. This whole crappy Stevie and Lindsey drama show-thing they did on the concerts are part of this too. One could blame him for doing so and a lot of fans did so.
He could have released his material over the years on smaller independent labels like some others do too. He opted not to do so, therefore we had to wait 14 years for a new album. Surely Stevie is not needed to get an album out that he wanted to get out. It did help to get it out by Warners for sure.

I agree that LB could have released it, but I think the ole ego gets in the way at times. He goes on about how the big machine is evil, but he runs back to it every chance he get, the exception being TITN and even then, he recorded the record instead of the solo project :shrug: Mind you, I'd do the same thing :cool:

Also, yes, La Nicks is not needed, but they would have a tough time in FM without her, though they could do it IMO - just on a snaller scale. But, my point was I think La Nicks thought one more time with FM would be cool and LB could use the help. Rumors abounded about this during the day and esp when the third leg was added to the tour. And, these rumors were from credible sources, though I never heard one first hand.

[FMtastic]

Wind, you have changed your story. You say Stevie rejoined FM for SYW to save Lindsey's ass, a supposition that I challenged. Now you are anchoring your entire argument on her commercial succes, but it's not the same thing. Stevie could not have toured for two years by herself selling out at or near capacity. But, whatever, good for her that she has been so popular over the years. That still does not mean she agreed to do SYW to save Lindsey. That is what I am disputing, and which you haven't proven.

[strandinthewind]

Wind, you have changed your story. You say Stevie rejoined FM for SYW to save Lindsey's ass, a supposition that I challenged. Now you are anchoring your entire argument on her commercial succes, but it's not the same thing. Stevie could not have toured for two years by herself selling out at or near capacity. But, whatever, good for her that she has been so popular over the years. That still does not mean she agreed to do SYW to save Lindsey. That is what I am disputing, and which you haven't proven.


No I have not. I still maintain that and her commercial success is part of that. She knew without it LB and FM would not have a chance at the record company getting behind them like it did. Again, why else would she go back to that drama?

Does it really piss you off that she is so popular?

[JazmenFlowers]

Yes, she has been perceived as the biggest commercial draw through the years, but that still doesn't mean she went back to FM to get Lindsey's career out of the toilet, which is what you said earlier. Did she go back out of loyalty? Sure, loyalty to the band.

As for who was the biggest commercial draw, you start to really wonder when you realize how poorly SYW did in the record stores. It had the weakest sales of all the albums with Buckingham and Nicks. What it lacked was Christine, and it seems the public wasn't too interested in buying FM music without Christine, Stevie's draw notwithstanding. Stevie's Enchanged and Sangri-La commercial success was limited to her core fan base, anyway. It's not as if she was selling at Bella Donna levels.
perception is a dangerous tool. Stevie has the largest fanbase, the largest sales record, the most hits of any of the members of FM so why is it such a sour pill to swallow to say she has the largest draw out of anyone in the band, not as a negative comment, just fact...simply because Stevie has reached more folks. logic seems simple enough to me. :shrug:

as far as people not buying SYW because the "public wasn't too interested...without Christine" is bull. FM will never sell like Rumours and Stevie will never sell like Bella Donna. again, that logic seems simple enough to me.
Of course songs like Silver girl are extremely hard to stand through.
I can't for the life of me understand why so many people hate SG. I love it. I wonder if some, not saying you specifically, just jump on that bandwagon cause everyone else has...a la WISYA.
No. No other member of FM has sold 1/10 of what La Nicks has sold in her solo career - worldwide or just in the US. Most recently, TISL sold somewhere around 700,000 copies - which is close to what SYW sold. Moreover, whose songs got radio time on The Dance? Finally, she toured rather successfully last Summer with no recoird to supprt - a feat neither LB nor CM could pull off to such crowds (and sadly so) - So, La Nicks clearly is the commercial draw. I think that pisses so many people off, which I will never get because facts are facts. It does not mean she is better per se than any other FM member. It just means she has an added talent of being coveted by people and she consistently works at that.

LB went on about how the time was bad at Warner's etc. The bottom line is no matter what he says, Warner's would have chomped at the bit had it thought it had a commercial success on its hands.
right you be.
No I have not. I still maintain that and her commercial success is part of that. She knew without it LB and FM would not have a chance at the record company getting behind them like it did. Again, why else would she go back to that drama?

Does it really piss you off that she is so popular?
:xoxo:

[FMtastic]

She knew without it LB and FM would not have a chance at the record company getting behind them like it did.

Has she said this? As far as I know, she hasn't. And the record company will put out anything with the Fleetwood Mac brand on it, as we have already seen.

Does it really piss you off that she is so popular?

Why on earth would you say this? You make too many assumptions.

[FMtastic]

as far as people not buying SYW because the "public wasn't too interested...without Christine" is bull.

Fact: Every FM album with Christine and the B/N duo has sold in the millions.

Fact: The one album with the B/N duo and without Christine didn't break a million.

Bull? Well, the facts speak for themselves.

I can't for the life of me understand why so many people hate SG. I love it. I wonder if some, not saying you specifically, just jump on that bandwagon cause everyone else has...a la WISYA.

right you be.

:xoxo:

This is a perplexing comment. I like Say Goodbye' it's one of the best songs in the whole album.

[ELIUD]

Stevie did Say You Will to make money and because she was excited about doing an album without Christine. A "more guitar-oriented" sound and going back to what she and Lindsey had started was her way of putting it. Lindsey did it to release his songs from the Screw album because the record company told him they were more interested in a new Fleetwood Mac release than a new Lindsey solo disc. But I'm almost certain he wasn't strapped for cash - especially after the success of The Dance. So that sounds to me, like he was more just sticking it to "the man" rather than salvaging his career.

As far as the possibliity of the album selling more with Christine, I think the masses are just a little burnt out on Fleetwood Mac radio-friendly tunes - as characterized by another Christine shuffle. They should have released "Everybody Finds Out" to capture the public's attention and released the album as a new Buckingham/Nicks CD. That would have been a better way to give the band new life.

[strandinthewind]

You make too many assumptions.

Pot, kettle, black :laugh:

(meant with humor)

[strandinthewind]

Fact: Every FM album with Christine and the B/N duo has sold in the millions.

Fact: The one album with the B/N duo and without Christine didn't break a million.

Bull? Well, the facts speak for themselves . . . .

Esp. when you account for CM's stellar sales of "In the Meantime" as opposed to TISL :wavey:

If you really think that La Nicks is not the commercial draw of FM - so be it.

Interestingly, you remind me a whole lot of my friend Carne. In fact, you even have his cadence and style of writing. Hmmmmmmmm :cool:

[FMtastic]

Pot, kettle, black :laugh:

(meant with humor)

I'm afraid I don't follow, unless you can point out which assumptions I have made here.

[strandinthewind]

I'm afraid I don't follow, unless you can point out which assumptions I have made here.

Not taking the bait :wavey:

[bikerchic]

This is a perplexing comment. I like Say Goodbye' it's one of the best songs in the whole album.
I think he means Silver Girl. Which I can't even listen to the first note. Sorry Jazz.

Now must go back and read through entire thread. OY!

[strandinthewind]

I think he means Silver Girl. Which I can't even listen to the first note. Sorry Jazz.

Now must go back and read through entire thread. OY!

I suggest a shot of vodka prior to it :cool:

Also - I think parts of SG are really good - like the whole "see her soul" - how it goes from she let's you see her soul to an imperative SEE her soul as in she really wants you to. But, the production is deadful. I much prefer the sniglet of the Middle Eastern sounding demo we heard in the doc.

[bikerchic]

I suggest a shot of vodka prior to it :cool:
:laugh: :wavey:
[QUOTE]
Also - I think parts of SG are really good - like the whole "see her soul" - how it goes from she let's you see her soul to an imperative SEE her soul as in she really wants you to. But, the production is deadful. I much prefer the sniglet of the Middle Eastern sounding demo we heard in the doc.

Running to cd player and putting SYW in, whilst I read this thread :woohoo:

[FMtastic]

If you really think that La Nicks is not the commercial draw of FM - so be it.

I didn't say that at all. I am asking you where you got the evidence that Stevie Nicks rejoined FM for SYW to save Lindsey's career, and I think that is what started this discussion.

[JazmenFlowers]

Fact: Every FM album with Christine and the B/N duo has sold in the millions.

Fact: The one album with the B/N duo and without Christine didn't break a million.

Bull? Well, the facts speak for themselves.
and I guess you could say that, but look at what the B/N duo DID do for FM...they'd never have had #1 single without Stevie.
This is a perplexing comment. I like Say Goodbye' it's one of the best songs in the whole album.
I meant Silver Girl, but yeah, Say Goodbye is awesome too.
Esp. when you account for CM's stellar sales of "In the Meantime" as opposed to TISL :wavey:

If you really think that La Nicks is not the commercial draw of FM - so be it.
you beat me to it. if the world were longing for more Christine McVie as FMtastic's posts seem to suggest (sorry if I'm misinterpreting), then why wasn't ITM insanely popular? how many copies did ITM sell anyway?
I think he means Silver Girl. Which I can't even listen to the first note. Sorry Jazz.
I did mean Silver Girl. why oh why can't you listen? the harmonies, the soft spoken vocal stylings...ahhh...

[ELIUD]

I did mean Silver Girl. why oh why can't you listen? the harmonies, the soft spoken vocal stylings...ahhh...

...the rinky dinky keyboard, the coma-inducing melody.

Honey, it's bad.

[strandinthewind]

...the rinky dinky keyboard, the coma-inducing melody.

Honey, it's bad.

Nut isn't that dreadful (IMO) keyboard LB's doing as the demo sniglet we heard sounded nothing like that? The flute is, however, in there in the mix. If you can find it and strip it down to it, it sounds MUCH better.

[JazmenFlowers]

...the rinky dinky keyboard, the coma-inducing melody.

Honey, it's bad.
honey? when did we become tight like that? :wavey:

I like it, so eat yellow snow.

[ELIUD]

Silver Girl is so bad I wanna hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

[JazmenFlowers]

Silver Girl is so bad I wanna hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
:lol:

surely there's someone around here that can take care of that.

[shackin'up]

Sorry dears, I read this one and I have to say:

YES. Strand is right.
Stevie Nicks is the biggest commercial draw in FM-with BN.
Totally true.
But the draw is based on work she did before 1983, and in hindsight, one must confess that the quality of the work that Chris and Lindsey did during Stevies creative haydays were equally important artisticly. After that, only Lindsey brought freshness and new bite to the band. Commercially a failure, artisticly....something else. And one can hate RTTG, but those guitarparts are KILLING.

[nightbird89]

She even changes opinions in her songs over time! :laugh:

1981
"Well it's one more link in the chain/I can't believe that"

1986 (possibly even earlier)
"Well Mick said Stevie this is one more link in the chain/Well I have to believe him"

lol that's great!:laugh: :lol:

[rianbay1]

.
you beat me to it. if the world were longing for more Christine McVie as FMtastic's posts seem to suggest (sorry if I'm misinterpreting), then why wasn't ITM insanely popular? how many copies did ITM sell anyway?



30,000 copies at last count. If I remember right, that was a couple of months after it came out.

[foxyluva]

After reading this entire post, I can't believe some of the things that have been said about my precious "Say You Will" - I don't give a flying **** how much it sold or any of the other crap that has been mentioned - the album ****ing rocks, and thats all there is to it :p

[SpyNote]

Stevie has also changed her mind in these songs...

1979
Now it's gone
It doesn't matter what for
When you build your house
Call me

1980
It's never gone
It always matters what for
When you build your house
I'll come by


And sometimes she's changed her mind within the same chorus...

1983
It's alright
It's alright
To be standing in a line

1986
It's alright
It's alright
It's really not alright!
To be standing in a line

But that's OK because as Stevie explained in 1988...

So today she says
Well I've changed my mind
Well that's a woman's right, they say

:woohoo:

[nix4life]

Stevie has also changed her mind in these songs...

1979
Now it's gone
It doesn't matter what for
When you build your house
Call me

1980
It's never gone
It always matters what for
When you build your house
I'll come by



i always thought that both of those were in the song the whole time -

only the last one was "ill come by and all the previous were "call me home"
but i may be confusing the live and studio versions -
ill have to listen to both and see

and two weeks ago i got to hear them back to back on my random play -
4000 songs on there and it played sara studio and sara live one after the other - now that is a day maker

[Serrart]

No I have not. I still maintain that and her commercial success is part of that. She knew without it LB and FM would not have a chance at the record company getting behind them like it did. Again, why else would she go back to that drama?

Does it really piss you off that she is so popular?

That's a rethoric question right? ;) She will never be forgiven for that, the genius suffered too much for that reason.

Romy

[Serrart]

Silver Girl is so bad I wanna hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

I liked the refrain, and I'm still curious aboput the demo with a flute. I guess Lindsey must have it since nobody from Stevie camp has stolen it yet ... just kidding.

Romy

[DavidMn]

I know a lot of people like "Come"Nothin wrong with that!;)

[DavidMn]

Not taking the bait :wavey:ThaT Was quite the interesting little catfight there.

[strandinthewind]

Sorry dears, I read this one and I have to say:

YES. Strand is right.
Stevie Nicks is the biggest commercial draw in FM-with BN.
Totally true.
But the draw is based on work she did before 1983, and in hindsight, one must confess that the quality of the work that Chris and Lindsey did during Stevies creative haydays were equally important artisticly. After that, only Lindsey brought freshness and new bite to the band. Commercially a failure, artisticly....something else. And one can hate RTTG, but those guitarparts are KILLING.

I disagree in that I think LB's creativity lacked on the SYW songs he produced in 2001, etc. I am not talking about the GOS stuff, which was done a decade or so earlier. For example, I think WTWCT is juvenile for a person of his talent.

Conversely, Stevie displayed IMO much more creativity on TISL (the song) and the lyrics of Thrown Down, which most agree was written after The Dance. So, I think it is incorrect to say La Nicks hayday was over after say 1983.

But, yes, all of their work was important artistically. Personally, I think CM's work on Tusk is amongst the best of just about any artist.

Tone - I am not slamming any member of the band. I am just noting what I think and why.

[strandinthewind]

That's a rethoric question right? ;) She will never be forgiven for that, the genius suffered too much for that reason.

Romy

I know - and it seemingly just burns the Stevie bashers up that someone of in their opinion such little talent could possibly eclipse the serious artist known as LB, who they think eschews the spotlight and would never be a commercial sellout - as they hum along to GYOW as they watch a rental car commercial on television :rolleyes: Again, LB is brilliant and that is that. Stevie, though less talented, by her own admission, musically - has a draw that LB will never have and that is that.

[michelle2677]

I know - and it seemingly just burns the Stevie bashers up that someone of in their opinion such little talent could possibly eclipse the serious artist known as LB, who they think eschews the spotlight and would never be a commercial sellout - as they hum along to GYOW as they watch a rental car commercial on television :rolleyes: Again, LB is brilliant and that is that. Stevie, though less talented, by her own admission, musically - has a draw that LB will never have and that is that.

I couldn't have said that better myself. So I wan't try and just agree with your post!!:nod:

[BlackWidow]

Personally, I loved what Lindsey did with all of Stevie's songs, but many fans' opinions seem to reflect Stevie's own... especially in regards to "Running Through The Garden," "Smile At You," "Goodbye Baby," "Thrown Down," and the little snippets we've heard of the demos for "Destiny Rules" and "Silver Girl."

I agree with you kiddo..her demos are rarely that great!

[strandinthewind]

I agree with you kiddo..her demos are rarely that great!

I actually agree with you, esp. the ones after the Tusk album - whoever gave the ole broad a synth. and drum machine oughta be shot LOL.

But, the piano ones were so stunning to me, esp. The Tower, POTU, SOTM, SS, Sara, etc.

But, my point was that I think IMO LB did not bring out the message I think she tried to convey was not apparent in LB's SYW production. Again, this is not a slam on LB. I just think he missed the mark then. I mean he is human after all :laugh:

[carrie721]

I actually agree with you, esp. the ones after the Tusk album - whoever gave the ole broad a synth. and drum machine oughta be shot LOL.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

i actually really like those demos, probably for the reason many think they're lame.

[BlackWidow]

I love the SYW Production!

[UndoingTheLaces]

Can anyone post that demo of Silver Girl. I've never heard it.

I'm sorry, I think the production on Running Through The Garden could have been better. That song has such energy but the guitar sounds really one dimensional and lifeless. And it always sounds to me like the end of Thrown Down isn't done. The part where she ad libs "about just how much he never really told her...", there should be something else going on there, harmony or repeating the main chorus with Stevie singing over top of it like at the end of Rooms on Fire. I dunno. Maybe it's just me.