Kerry alleges misconduct in 2004 Ohio vote

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/29/ohio.kerry.ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. John Kerry didn't contest the results at the time, but now that he's considering another run for the White House, he's alleging election improprieties by the Ohio Republican who oversaw the deciding vote in 2004.

An e-mail from Kerry will be sent to 100,000 Democratic donors Tuesday asking them to support U.S. Rep. Ted Strickland for governor of Ohio. The bulk of the e-mail criticizes Strickland's opponent, GOP Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, for his dual role in 2004 as President Bush's honorary Ohio campaign co-chairman and the state's top election official.

"He used the power of his state office to try to intimidate Ohioans and suppress the Democratic vote," Kerry says in the e-mail, according to a copy provided in advance.

Kerry, D-Massachusetts, conceded the election when he lost Ohio and its 20 electoral votes. A recount requested by minor-party candidates showed Bush won by about 118,000 votes out of 5.5 million cast. But Kerry's e-mail says Blackwell "used his office to abuse our democracy and threaten basic voting rights."

Multiple lawsuits by outside groups were unsuccessful in challenging Ohio's 2004 election. One case filed by the League of Women Voters is still in U.S. District Court in Toledo. It claims Ohio's election system discriminates against minority voters.

Blackwell, who is black, says the election was run fairly, citing 1 million more votes cast than in 2000 and record turnout among black voters.

"People will say anything for money," Blackwell campaign spokesman Carlo LoParo said. "Fortunately, the historical record contradicts Senator Kerry."

Strickland spokesman Keith Dailey said the campaign welcomes Kerry's support.

[SuzeQuze]

If he really is going to run he better keep his cajones out this time! I like the fact that he would take a stand on this issue. But he is so late in doing so. Hopefully the political climate is such that people will listen now. Nobody wanted to believe that things could have been rigged in Ohio but there were alot of sketchy things that happened there to give the GOP the vote. There are facts about this on blackboxvoting.org.

[strandinthewind]

He has no hope of winning. Most people now see him as a wet noodle and, though it is unfair, his foreign wife is a huge detriment.

John Edwards should run. He can win barring any skeletons, plus, although it is unfair, his wife's breast cancer and his willingness to stick with her will help him.

That's how I see it.

[estranged4life]

John Edwards should run. He can win barring any skeletons, plus, although it is unfair, his wife's breast cancer and his willingness to stick with her will help him.

That's how I see it.

was one of the reasons I voted for the Franken-Kerry ticket last time out, for one he appearred in Oklahoma on many occassions and at least acknowledged that we are indeed a state.

Still I wonder how a state with a majority of voters who are registered as Democrats, Presidential election after Presidential election vote for the Republican candidate (Last Demo to win OK was JFK)....Oh, I know what causes this phenomena, The Demos to the far left.

Back to the task at hand, Franken-Kerry has as much chance of winning the Demo nomination for 2008 as William Shatner winning an Academy Award for his acting ability in a Shakespearan play.

[Rickypt]

He has no hope of winning. Most people now see him as a wet noodle and, though it is unfair, his foreign wife is a huge detriment.

John Edwards should run. He can win barring any skeletons, plus, although it is unfair, his wife's breast cancer and his willingness to stick with her will help him.

That's how I see it.

Interesting, I was just thinking of starting a thread about '08 candidates. A friend and I were talking about strong Dem contenders and Edwards is at the top of our list. I voted for him in the '04 primary (even though his politics overall are to my right) because he was the only candidate who talked about poverty. I think he is smart, articulate, and can win.

I would love an Edwards/Obama ticket.

As for Kerry, just go away.

[mikeschmike]

I would love an Edwards/Obama ticket.

As for Kerry, just go away.


I would love to see an Edwards/Obama ticket, too. As for Kerry, this "two years later" thing seems petty upon first glance. And I hope he doesn't even think of running in '08. Did he not see the Giant Douche/Turd Sandwich episode of South Park? It was spot on!

[SuzeQuze]

He has no hope of winning. Most people now see him as a wet noodle and, though it is unfair, his foreign wife is a huge detriment.

John Edwards should run. He can win barring any skeletons, plus, although it is unfair, his wife's breast cancer and his willingness to stick with her will help him.

That's how I see it.

I agree with you, Edwards would be a great candidate. Kerry IS sort of a wet noodle. Indecisiveness and inertia are not good qualities for a president.

[SuzeQuze]

...Still I wonder how a state with a majority of voters who are registered as Democrats, Presidential election after Presidential election vote for the Republican candidate (Last Demo to win OK was JFK)....Oh, I know what causes this phenomena, The Demos to the far left.
...

Right-wing bias in the media? (gasp) There really aren't many left-wing dems, most are pretty wussy middle of the road types.

[estranged4life]

Right-wing bias in the media? (gasp) There really aren't many left-wing dems, most are pretty wussy middle of the road types.

but in Oklahoma, if you're a Democrat that may have the "L" letter attached to your beliefs ("L" as in "Liberal") you have 0% chance of winning office (Maybe that was why John Kerry skipped out on the Democratic debate at OSU :shrug: ).


Think about it, the end results of the 2004 Oklahoma Democratic Primary proves this to be true:

Winner: Wesley Clark (Yes, he won Oklahoma-Shocking 'tis be!)
(A very close) Runner-up: John Edwards
3rd: Howard "The Scream King" Dean
(A very distant) 4th: John Kerry

[SuzeQuze]

but in Oklahoma, if you're a Democrat that may have the "L" letter attached to your beliefs ("L" as in "Liberal") you have 0% chance of winning office (Maybe that was why John Kerry skipped out on the Democratic debate at OSU :shrug: ).


Think about it, the end results of the 2004 Oklahoma Democratic Primary proves this to be true:

Winner: Wesley Clark (Yes, he won Oklahoma-Shocking 'tis be!)
(A very close) Runner-up: John Edwards
3rd: Howard "The Scream King" Dean
(A very distant) 4th: John Kerry

You're right. This is because of the talk radio people like Rush. The average person seems to trust what he says as fact. If it's on the radio, then it must be true, right? He and the other wrong-wingnuts have turned liberal (which means generous and open-minded) into a dirty word. It isn't.

I don't know why he skipped out on that debate. Maybe just cuz he's plain chicken. For his rally in Boston, when he had to concede to Bush, he never even addressed his crowd of supporters partying in Copley. Wuss wuss wuss. :distress:

[estranged4life]

You're right. This is because of the talk radio people like Rush. The average person seems to trust what he says as fact. If it's on the radio, then it must be true, right? He and the other wrong-wingnuts have turned liberal (which means generous and open-minded) into a dirty word. It isn't.

I hoped/prayed he would've been left permanently deaf (With his past hearing problem) thus ending his radio propaganda!

For some reason, he always reminded me of "Fat Bastard" from the Austin Powers movies-"Oh, Get in my belly (As he refers to his drugs)" :shrug:

And for the record, Liberal isnt a dirty word...It's just a dusty town in Kansas :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

I hoped/prayed he would've been left permanently deaf (With his past hearing problem) thus ending his radio propaganda!

For some reason, he always reminded me of "Fat Bastard" from the Austin Powers movies-"Oh, Get in my belly (As he refers to his drugs)" :shrug:

And for the record, Liberal isnt a dirty word...It's just a dusty town in Kansas :lol:

I hoped for the same thing. :o Fat Bastard :lol: Stephanie Miller calls him "Drug-Addled-Gasbag-Rush Limbaugh".

Have you listened to Ed Schultz? http://www.wegoted.com If anyone can get thru to OK peeps and others who've been voting against their own interests he can.

[estranged4life]

Have you listened to Ed Schultz? http://www.wegoted.com If anyone can get thru to OK peeps and others who've been voting against their own interests he can.

but never listened to his show (Hard to listen to talk radio with a music collection of the size that I own).

I listened to Rush Limbaugh once, and the next thing I know I have an arachnoid cyst in my brain...maybe my brain couldnt take his BS propaganda :shrug: :lol:

Brian "Hi, I'm Rush Limbaugh. I have done more drugs than all the current/former members of Fleetwood Mac combined...I've did as many prescriptions drugs as Stevie Nicks did men!!!" j.

[xxxmx]

John Edwards should run. He can win barring any skeletons, plus, although it is unfair, his wife's breast cancer and his willingness to stick with her will help him.

That's how I see it.

i think john edwards should be in my bed. that's how I see it. :wavey:

[irishgrl]

I first saw this when I was at work and didnt have time to respond, but my first thought was: why NOW? its too freakin LATE! That man doesnt know diddly about timing does he?

[strandinthewind]

i think john edwards should be in my bed. that's how I see it. :wavey:

Instead of me?

[strandinthewind]

I first saw this when I was at work and didnt have time to respond, but my first thought was: why NOW? its too freakin LATE! That man doesnt know diddly about timing does he?

Once again, Kerry hedged his bet - no surprise there is there.

I think he saw that the evidence was rather unsustainable at the time (history proves this correct as no lawsuits have been won :shrug: ) and opted out. Now, he opts in. What a schlemeel.

[irishgrl]

Instead of me?


nah, you're coming over to MY domicile my friend! We've got a nekkid date yet to fulfil! Bring your top hat and your tonsils!

[irishgrl]

Once again, Kerry hedged his bet - no surprise there is there.

I think he saw that the evidence was rather unsustainable at the time (history proves this correct as no lawsuits have been won :shrug: ) and opted out. Now, he opts in. What a schlemeel.

The fact that no lawsuits have been won only proves that there is no JUSTICE in our court system today. IMO, the Courts are packed with GOP "yes men" who will see to it that the Rethugs will not have to atone for their misdeeds. Bleh.

[strandinthewind]

The fact that no lawsuits have been won only proves that there is no JUSTICE in our court system today. IMO, the Courts are packed with GOP "yes men" who will see to it that the Rethugs will not have to atone for their misdeeds. Bleh.

Meh - if the evodence is there, esp. in this high profile case, the judgement will follow. The problem here was as noted there was a record number of AA voters and though clearly the placement of voting machines was at best foolish and at worst conniving - there was no concrete evidence. Sad - but true.

Also - you are so funny - what the hell does gender have to do with this :laugh: see Katherine Harris in Nov. 2000 - last i checked, she has a vagina and is one as well :eek:

[irishgrl]

Meh - if the evodence is there, esp. in this high profile case, the judgement will follow. The problem here was as noted there was a record number of AA voters and though clearly the placement of voting machines was at best foolish and at worst conniving - there was no concrete evidence. Sad - but true.

Also - you are so funny - what the hell does gender have to do with this :laugh: see Katherine Harris in Nov. 2000 - last i checked, she has a vagina and is one as well :eek:

Did I say (or even imply) that GENDER was a factor here? I dont think so.

my use of the term "yes men" was meant to describe ANYONE who is willing to do the party dirty work. Including Judges. of ANY gender.

And what does Katherine Harris have to do with this discussion? She was involved in the 2000 fiasco, and Kerry is complaing about Ohio in 2004 :shrug:

also, fyi:

I can think of a NUMBER of high profile cases where the "evidence was there" and the judgement most certainly did NOT follow. OJ SIMPSON ring a bell? MICHAEL JACKSON? In my own case, where the evidence certainly rises to the "preponderance of evidence" standard, there was still a Judge that allowed atrocities to happen and my son suffered as a result. Family Courts in particular are RIFE with cases where Judgements do NOT follow the evidence. Tsk Jason.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

You take bait so easily :p :p :p :p :p

[irishgrl]

^^^^

You take bait so easily :p :p :p :p :p

aaaaahhhh, you just like pushing my buttons. Ive only got two. and you push both of them. you BAHSTID! :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

aaaaahhhh, you just like pushing my buttons. Ive only got two. and you push both of them. you BAHSTID! :xoxo:

LOL - it was really meant to be sarcasm, which I am always soooo loathe to do :wavey:

[SuzeQuze]

The Conyers Report regarding what went wrong is available at Amazon.com
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/What-Went-Wrong-In-Ohio-/dp/089733535X/sr=1-1/qid=1156961890/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1642260-6774253?ie=UTF8&s=books">What Went Wrong In Ohio: The Conyers Report On The 2004 Presidential Election </a>

From Book Description: "...this book provides new insights into the abuse and manipulation of electronic voting machines and the arbitrary and illegal behavior of a number of elected and election officials which effectively disenfranchised tens of thousands of voters in order to change the outcome of an election."

[irishgrl]

As far as Im concerned, the Conyers report only confirms what I already believed anyway. The REAL $64K question(s) to my mind is(are): WHAT the HELL are we going to do about it so it doesnt happen again.....and Are the perpetrators going to be held accountable?

My personal wish list would include a President that would reverse every policy that Monkey Boy and the Vulcans (the innter circle's name for themselves--according to Melissa Rossi) have saddled this country with.

Repeal Bushwhackers bad enviro laws, Tax the HECK out of Multi-Nationals that outsource, re-institute trust busting laws, pull us OUT of Iraq..........and on and on and on.

[SuzeQuze]

As far as Im concerned, the Conyers report only confirms what I already believed anyway. The REAL $64K question(s) to my mind is(are): WHAT the HELL are we going to do about it so it doesnt happen again.....and Are the perpetrators going to be held accountable?

My personal wish list would include a President that would reverse every policy that Monkey Boy and the Vulcans (the innter circle's name for themselves--according to Melissa Rossi) have saddled this country with.

Repeal Bushwhackers bad enviro laws, Tax the HECK out of Multi-Nationals that outsource, re-institute trust busting laws, pull us OUT of Iraq..........and on and on and on.

I agree but so many people are unaware that it even happened. :confused: I also agree that the above things you mentioned need to be undone.

[strandinthewind]

I agree but so many people are unaware that it even happened. :confused: I also agree that the above things you mentioned need to be undone.

I think most people think that it is, as it was, unprovable. Thus, they are not really interested in it. Also, people were not that thrilled with Kerry and many voted for him begrudgingly. So, I think that played into it.

Again, if the media could have taken it and run - they would have.

[SuzeQuze]

I think most people think that it is, as it was, unprovable. Thus, they are not really interested in it. Also, people were not that thrilled with Kerry and many voted for him begrudgingly. So, I think that played into it.

Again, if the media could have taken it and run - they would have.

Since when does it have to be provable for the media to report on it? That is for the courts. I'm even not sure it was unprovable.

[strandinthewind]

Since when does it have to be provable for the media to report on it? That is for the courts. I'm even not sure it was unprovable.

I meant unprovable in the courts. Do I think it happened - sure it did. Do I think both parties are probably guilty of it across the US - sure they are. But, to make the charge stick even in the media, you have to prove it a la Dan Rather's fiasco (certainly what he reported occured, but he could not prove it - talk about a set up there though PHEW)

So, my point is that though it likely occured, they were clever enough in doing it that they cannot get caught.

[irishgrl]

Even tho the computer tech guys basically confessed that they needlessly "adjusted" the machines? or switched the program? or that the machines inexplicably "defaulted" to Bush? or GOP thugs intimidated Dem voters? Come ON Jason.......there was PLENTY that was verifiable, its just that the "yes men" in robes are dutifully IGNORING it. or dismissing it. either way, they are seeing to it that the guilty are not held accountable.

[strandinthewind]

Even tho the computer tech guys basically confessed that they needlessly "adjusted" the machines? or switched the program? or that the machines inexplicably "defaulted" to Bush? or GOP thugs intimidated Dem voters? Come ON Jason.......there was PLENTY that was verifiable, its just that the "yes men" in robes are dutifully IGNORING it. or dismissing it. either way, they are seeing to it that the guilty are not held accountable.

Every judge on Ohio is a yes man - that sounds a little paranoid to me. Did you investigate the judges and the records?

Again, all that is rhetoric. Let's see the signed affidavits proving it. Let's see the machines in action. Sadly, there is none of that, either through the expoliation of evidence or because it never existed.

In the end, I think both sides do this (think the Dailey D's in Chi) - - but you have to prove it and that is next to impossible other than by innuendo. Interestingly, the other side tells the story in Ohio quite differently. Moreover, if the press smells a story and they can make it stick, they are gonna do it to sell the papers, etc.

But, I defer to the thread on that two years ago for any and all references as I am off to have a marg.

[irishgrl]

Every judge on Ohio is a yes man - that sounds a little paranoid to me. Did you investigate the judges and the records?

Again, all that is rhetoric. Let's see the signed affidavits proving it. Let's see the machines in action. Sadly, there is none of that, either through the expoliation of evidence or because it never existed.

In the end, I think both sides do this (think the Dailey D's in Chi) - - but you have to prove it and that is next to impossible other than by innuendo. Interestingly, the other side tells the story in Ohio quite differently. Moreover, if the press smells a story and they can make it stick, they are gonna do it to sell the papers, etc.

But, I defer to the thread on that two years ago for any and all references as I am off to have a marg.


I didnt say EVERY Judge in Ohio was a "yes man," just the KEY Judges. As in FEDERAL. Those are the only ones who are involved in this. And what makes you think there's no proof? Did you read the Conyers report? did you even pay attention to the specifics at the time? I remember there was definite evidence of tampering and first person confessions as well.

By the way, the Ohio story was overshadowed by--of all things--IRAQ! Every time we get an inkling (or even a pretty good whiff) of wrongdoing or skullduggery by the GOP, the media (who are now the Administration's lap dogs) deflect attention elsewhere. By the way, as I recall, that thread totally supported Kerry's position at that time, but HE wasnt willing to do anything meaningful about it. What a doofus.

ps: just to jumpstart any possible research, Ive posted some old threads that are relevant:
Kerry files motion to protect evidence in Ohio vote fraud (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17439&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

more Ohio vote fraud evidence (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17537&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

questioning the statistics (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17730&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

prosecuter probes Cuyuhoga recount (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=18945&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

also, here are some links to relevant articles by Truthout:
http://www.google.com/custom?q=ohio+vote+fraud&sa=Search+TO+Archives&cof=S%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.truthout.org%3BGL%3A0%3BAH%3Acenter%3BLH%3A45%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.trutho ut.org%2Fimgs.site_01%2F1.LGO.search_1.gif%3BLW%3A455%3BAWFID%3A5a9b1b83678b74b7%3B&domains=www.truthout.org&sitesearch=www.truthout.org

ps: enjoy your Margarita :p

[SuzeQuze]

I didnt say EVERY Judge in Ohio was a "yes man," just the KEY Judges. As in FEDERAL. Those are the only ones who are involved in this. And what makes you think there's no proof? Did you read the Conyers report? did you even pay attention to the specifics at the time? I remember there was definite evidence of tampering and first person confessions as well.

By the way, the Ohio story was overshadowed by--of all things--IRAQ! Every time we get an inkling (or even a pretty good whiff) of wrongdoing or skullduggery by the GOP, the media (who are now the Administration's lap dogs) deflect attention elsewhere. By the way, as I recall, that thread totally supported Kerry's position at that time, but HE wasnt willing to do anything meaningful about it. What a doofus.

ps: just to jumpstart any possible research, Ive posted some old threads that are relevant:
Kerry files motion to protect evidence in Ohio vote fraud (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17439&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

more Ohio vote fraud evidence (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17537&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

questioning the statistics (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17730&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

prosecuter probes Cuyuhoga recount (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=18945&highlight=Ohio+vote+fraud)

also, here are some links to relevant articles by Truthout:
http://www.google.com/custom?q=ohio+vote+fraud&sa=Search+TO+Archives&cof=S%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.truthout.org%3BGL%3A0%3BAH%3Acenter%3BLH%3A45%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.trutho ut.org%2Fimgs.site_01%2F1.LGO.search_1.gif%3BLW%3A455%3BAWFID%3A5a9b1b83678b74b7%3B&domains=www.truthout.org&sitesearch=www.truthout.org

ps: enjoy your Margarita :p

If only it were just paranoia right? The Rs have so much power they've been able to suppress the truth and it is f*cking scary.

[irishgrl]

If only it were just paranoia right? The Rs have so much power they've been able to suppress the truth and it is f*cking scary.

What's worse is that they have intelligent people buying into their propaganda (you must be paranoid to think THAT) thus effectively stifling any real hope of change....:distress:

[SuzeQuze]

What's worse is that they have intelligent people buying into their propaganda (you must be paranoid to think THAT) thus effectively stifling any real hope of change....:distress:

Until we have a Dem majority in congress!

[irishgrl]

Until we have a Dem majority in congress!

Let us Pray.........