Was TITN a surprise? [Archive]

skcin

07-10-2006, 12:51 PM

chiliD

07-10-2006, 01:05 PM

I was surprised that they did another album with the same 5 people, yeah. I figured after that long that somebody wouldn't come back...so, that made Lindsey's departure NOT all that much of a surprise (well, a little bit of one. He did the album, so I kind of expected he'd tour, too)...I was actually MORE surprised that Stevie Nicks came back (read on).

I liked Lindsey's tunes, right away...I liked Christine's tunes on first listen...I thought Stevie's tunes were horrid..."Seven Wonders" kind of grew on me a bit, but the other two? {insert sound of projectile vomiting here}. I really though after hearing them and how much I liked 1/2 of Rock A Little that Stevie was starting to bring her B-material to Fleetwood Mac and saving the good songs for her own career (that thought was quickly shattered once I heard OSOTM...she'd just lost it altogether) and I thought "Why did she even bother rejoining the band for this album?".

I think the strength of the album sales was mainly due to the greatness of their live show during that subsequent tour. (with the added help of the MTV videos...it was still a fairly new medium then...when MTV was still "MTV" if you know what I mean.)

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 01:07 PM

I was 20 or so when it came out. I remember being excitred for it and then being let down a little because the songs were perhaps too sleek and La Nicks' work was bad, with the exception of Seven Wonders. TITN also marked the first huge change I noted in her voice - it was lower and flat in places, esp. live.

But, I grew to like TITN.

MacMan

07-10-2006, 01:14 PM

I think I was sortof was moving on from them at that point... I don't recall even seriously following them or hearing about the album before it's release - so I definately wasn't counting the days. I remember the constant radio and video play of the tracks... and I remember when I bought it thinking that Stevie's hardly heard anywhere on it except mainly the tracks she sang on. I liked the album at the time, thought it sounded great and went with the times - still like Little Lies and 7 Wonders and a couple of other tracks...

David

07-10-2006, 01:15 PM

This question is mainly for longtime fans - I was 12 when it came out, and I clearly remember 7 Wonders, Little Lies & Big Love being very big hits. But at the time, I didn't know exactly who Mac was, and couldn't connect the dots. I just thought they were a good band with some awesome hit songs, but I didn't realize they had done Gypsy & GYOW.

So, was the success of TITN a bit unexpected? It had been 5 years since Mirage and I assume the Mac wasn't all that popular anymore, or at least not at the forefront of the public's consciousness.Madonna was the biggest name in the business. She was everywhere. Fleetwood Mac was still a pretty big name, though--it was kind of like the status they had in 1997/1998: not the hippest kid on the block by a long shot but still a big name as an 'elder statesman' band, & still impressive commercially (probably thanks to Stevie).

So, when you heard it was coming out, were you nervous that it wouldn't do well? Excited? Yeah, I was really excited. I went to that big splashy benefit at the sports arena in the late summer 1986, where Lindsey performed & said that the band was finishing up its best album ever, so we were pretty excited. We were definitely waiting for it, month by month.

What about upon its release - did you love it or did it take time to grow on you? A few weeks before the album came out, the radio started playing Big Love, & I really liked that one. Even the L.A. Times loved that one, calling it one of the best singles so far that year. About a week before the album was released, Jim Ladd (surprise surprise) played the whole album on KMET or KLOS or wherever he was at that point, & I listened to the broadcast & taped it, & I remember just loving the sound of all the songs as they unfolded one after another. I remember thinking the whole pentatonic thing going through so much of it & the crystal clarity of it all were just about the most beautiful thing I had ever heard from Fleetwood Mac. I had a Sony Walkman then & I remember thinking that I was going to be listening to THIS for a long time.

When it became a hit, with videos all over MTV, were you shocked?Yes that was a little weird. Little Lies, especially...pop-rock radio in Los Angeles just kept playing it & playing it, twelve times a day every day. People at class in college were humming it & you walked into a store or a mall & there it was. It was slightly weird to me. It wasn't like Rumours because the band themselves weren't hip that way anymore, but all this airplay was bizarre. It was like these songs--Little Lies, Seven Wonders, Everywhere--just got stuck in people's brains & they couldn't get rid of them even though they didn't really love them. The songs were so hook-filled & that's what effective hooks do: they insinuate themselves in somebody's brain even when that person doesn't want it to happen. Have you ever started humming a song that you didn't even like? That's because of the damn hook, & that's what Tango had.

DavidMn

07-10-2006, 01:32 PM

I remember getting it and thinking back I had the same feeling that I had with Say You Will in that I had to listen to it several times to wrap myself around it. A good album for sure.

The Tower

07-10-2006, 03:35 PM

I think the strength of the album sales was mainly due to the greatness of their live show during that subsequent tour. (with the added help of the MTV videos...it was still a fairly new medium then...when MTV was still "MTV" if you know what I mean.)
Yeah- I remember it was alllllll over Mtv back then. It was only five years after Mirage, though- and Stevie had released two solos in between, with Lindsey and Christine each releasing one. I think the general public and, especially, the fans were really revved up to receiving it. I remember I bought it on vinyl the day it was released and went home and played and it and was :shrug: . I had to warm up to it over time- on first listen I was completely WTF?? on "When I See You Again".

I remember sitting around in front of the tee-vee waiting for the official first airing of "Big Love". I thought it was odd that Stevie was even in the performing parts of the video since she's not even on the song. If I was a member of the band who didn't perform on a track I certainly wouldn't just lip-sync as if I my voice as was there. How embarrassing. But, they wanted to present a united front, blah, blah, blah. At the time, I thought "Seven Wonders" should have been the first single.

Now the whole album is pretty much blah for me. It's extremely dated. "Isn't It Midnight" and "Tango in the Night" are pretty much the only songs that really hold up after nineteen years. They should have done "Tango" instead of "I'm So Afraid" on the SYW tour :nod: . Would've been a much better choice.

chiliD

07-10-2006, 03:53 PM

They should have done "Tango" instead of "I'm So Afraid" on the SYW tour :nod: . Would've been a much better choice.

Agree in principle. Actually, they should've done "Tango" on The Dance tour in place of "I'm So Afraid"...then done "Murrow" on the SYW tour.

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 04:36 PM

Towie -

I think many people thought the love grunts on Big Love had La Nicks in them. I certainly did.

Villavic

07-10-2006, 05:38 PM

Maybe So Afraid was good for the Reunion tour and the Dance, but the latest tours, they should have included Tango in the Night, I agree.

Now, the album was kind of suprise to me. In a decade full of Duran Durans, Culture Clubs and Thompson Twins, and no news of the band since 1982, TITN was a glad surprise to me.

Of course there was no internet at that time, and news were not so many in Peru ad in the States, about music industry. In 1997 I knew about the Dance and the reunion weeks before the show, and it was a huge surprise to me..

I like TITN, I like it very much, though it was the Stevie's weakest collaboration. But I like it far more than Mirage, as a whole album. Unfortunately then I knew the tour wouldn't be with Lindsey, so I thought it was the end of the band, as I knew it.

Houseonthehill

07-10-2006, 06:35 PM

Wow interesting, this entire thread is phenomenal, just realizing the thoughts about quite possibly my favorite FM album at the time (about 6 months before I was born!)

PenguinHead

07-10-2006, 06:43 PM

I eagerly awaited the Tango album with great excitement. It had been so long since their last album. Big Love started getting a lot of airplay right off the bat. As different as it was, I was happy to see Lindsey have another hit single (since there weren't any from him on the Mirage album (although Oh Diane and Can't Go Back were issued as foreign singles).

Overall I like the album, although Mirage, by a slim margin, seems more cohesive to me. I really liked Seven Wonders immediately, but over time, the crappy verse lyrics have sort of spoiled it. And, am I the only one who actually likes Welcome to the Room Sara? Yes, it's a very odd song, and that's why I like it....because it features the background voices of both Christine and Lindsey, and it addresses her stint at Betty Ford in a way that only Stevie could conjure up.

Didn't Stevie submit other songs for consideration? For example, Juliet and What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done For You? When I See You Again could have been a new Landslide-like song...but she so missed the mark on that one, lyrically and vocally. In fact, her voice sounded very shrill during that period, and I think the production only enhanced it.

UndoingTheLaces

07-10-2006, 11:48 PM

I was in the summer before going off to college when Tango came out. I was already a big fan of Stevie Nicks but up until this point never really had made the distinction between Fleetwood Mac and Stevie as a solo performer. On a mix tape Gypsy sat alongside Stand Back and I just knew they were the same person singing. So when Tango came out I finally got that Stevie was a part of Fleetwood Mac. I went totally nuts for Seven Wonders. It was my favorite song that summer. Then I remember hearing the remix of Big Love on the radio and totally falling in love with it, but when they would play the single version I couldn't figure out why they cut Stevie's part. Once I got the album I realized it was just a special feature of the remix.

I enjoyed the whole album. Welcome to the Room Sara made no sense to me until years later when I found out it was about her time in rehab and it became much darker to me. Same thing had happened with Gypsy, a flightly song about mystical gypsies and lost loves became a very somber story of a dying friend. I still get emotional when I hear it.

That album was the one I listened to most during my freshman year at college. It was because of it that I went out and got all the other FM CDs (well, all the ones from that line-up anyway). I saw the tango tour and had no idea Lindsay wasn't going to be there until the night of the show and I was really crushed. It was still a very enjoyable show. I remember Stevie catching a frisbee thrown by a fan during Don't Stop and throwing it back into the audience.

I'm a huge fan of remixes, and the Seven Wonders and Big Love remixes had constant play in my dorm room and my walkman. I listened to the Little Lies remix a lot but really didn't like it very much. By the time Family Man came out I was losing interest and getting really wrapped up in Tusk, which is my favorite FM album.

GarboSpeaks!

07-11-2006, 02:03 AM

I liked Lindsey's tunes, right away...I liked Christine's tunes on first listen...I thought Stevie's tunes were horrid..."Seven Wonders" kind of grew on me a bit, but the other two? {insert sound of projectile vomiting here}. I really though after hearing them and how much I liked 1/2 of Rock A Little that Stevie was starting to bring her B-material to Fleetwood Mac and saving the good songs for her own career (that thought was quickly shattered once I heard OSOTM...she'd just lost it altogether) and I thought "Why did she even bother rejoining the band for this album?".

It's an interesting ? to ask cause I think age has a lot to do with this.

What I mean to say is...older fans who were around for the Rumours heyday (maybe even Tusk) would be a tad more "eh" about the release of TITN vs. those coming of age in the video era...getting acquainted w/ the Mac and it's solo member efforts via MTV.
Those of us not at all of age to recall ANY album release but being aware of TITN, it's gonna have a different effect. Am I making sense w/out offending people? ;)
I was maybe 16 I'd say...and had no idea of it coming out. I can't recall a build up to the album, but I was WAY into them by then and definately all over the possibility of FINALLY getting to see my 1st concert...add to it that it was for this album. BL & 7W were ALL over the tv, in rotation w/ Gypsy & Stand Back...to help those of us that hadn't "connected the dots." (Of which I had only done when Mirage came out.) I was swamped in jr. high w/ the "your not cool unless you are into WHAM & Madonna etc." Being in the know was just not happening for me, so it just sorta came out. I made more effort to know about these things in advance from OSOTM on. I don't think that TITN was an accomplishment in my book at the time, cause I was just grateful for more music. Prolly only by this time had I finally acquired all FM/solo efforts I could get my hands on, and was oblivious to the back catalog of guest efforts and music soundtracks. At the time I thought it was all great, but ofcourse w/ years of listening to it, I have my opinions. I still think it is a great album. Dated to be sure. One of the few Mac albums that just screams it's era. Stevie's WTTRS took FOREVER to grow on me, but I like all of Chris & LB's stuff. I would never have thought to think "hmmm, this stuff sounds like Stevie's leftovers from a solo album." But today I'd have to agree 10fold. LB's tunes sound like he's still trapped in the Kleenex boxes he used for Tusk, but can't quite break out. Chris...well Chris always writes poppy tunes.
In retrospect, it was a cool year. Saw them for that tour, and just became more hardcore. Still break out TITN once in a while for a listen, and enjoy it for a time...but then put it away again.

JazmenFlowers

07-11-2006, 08:29 AM

*in my best Miranda Priestley voice*

When I See You Again is amazing. that's all.

I was only 6 or 7 when TITN came out so I can't really add anything else to this conversation, but I had to add my $.02

HejiraNYC

07-11-2006, 09:00 AM

For me, every time I bought a new SN or FM album when it was released was an EVENT that had its own timespace :p - I remember the place I bought it, how much it cost, and most of all, the sense of anticipation of getting to the car, ripping it open and looking at the inner sleeve/booklet for pictures and lyrics. TITN was no exception (CD, Kemp Mill Records, Greenbelt, MD $14.99).

I remember that my biggest anticipation was to see whether Stevie's voice had changed. Some months earlier I saw my first Stevie concert, the RAL tour, and I was sorely disappointed- her voice was off-key and hoarse. As it turned out, TITN confirmed my fears, especially WISYA. And I was also really bummed that Stevie was barely on the album. And although I loved the cover art work, there really weren't any decent band shots in the CD booklet! Grrr...

Musically I wasn't all that shocked- it seemed like the next logical step after the very poppy "Mirage." And "Stand Back" and the RAL album had already paved the way for a very 80's contemporary, synth-driven sound. But the one thing I absolutely deplored (in addition to WISYA) is "You and I Part II." Gawd, that song was cheesy then as it is today. It reminded me so much of "Copa Cabana" and it was definitely a song that I didn't want blaring out of my car speakers.

In a nutshell I thought it was an okay effort, but even for its time I thought it sounded cold and mechanical. Oh, and Stevie's songs were by-and-large ass.

Sahara

07-15-2006, 08:39 AM

I wasn't around at the time it was released but I can imagine that what people are saying about it being popular because it had that "hook" was true ~ even though I think it has much more going for it than just that.

And I would kill or die to see TITN done live. Pretty please, Lindsey?! :thumbsup:

priestofnothing

07-15-2006, 09:36 AM

Agree in principle. Actually, they should've done "Tango" on The Dance tour in place of "I'm So Afraid"...then done "Murrow" on the SYW tour.

That's funny. Not ha-ha funny, but co-incidence funny. I believe Lindsey (or maybe it was Mick) said once that the music for Tango in the Night (the song) was born out of some of Lindsey's live performances of I'm So Afraid. I can't remember where I heard that though - maybe it was in Mick's book?

littlewolf

07-16-2006, 12:06 PM

Towie -

I think many people thought the love grunts on Big Love had La Nicks in them. I certainly did.
so did i.
tango in the night was the beginning of fleetwood mac to me,after a couple of turns.
the first time they were about to play big love on mtv(was it mtv at the time?)the vj said:listen to those aaahhs,they´re stevie nicks.
this couldn´t have been my first time hearing FM,because i knew that reference meant that stevie hadn´t left the band,as it was rumoured at the time.
following year i changed a job and met a couple of guys who introduced me to peter green period fleetwood mac.
this brought back my interest in tango in the night and at the time everywhere was playing a lot,so i bought it,but didn´t like it very much,so when one of the guys from work wanted to buy it,i sold it to him.
for years i only listened to peter green period FM,but when behind the mask came,little lies was played several times and i decided to buy it again in -91 and from there i started to buy other rumours line up albums(and bare trees)

aleuzzi

07-16-2006, 04:26 PM

I just learned to drive when Tango was released. I'd been a die-hard Mac fan since I was twelve and was anxious for this long-awaited LP. I was, on first listen, disappointed. Lindsey and Christine's songs were strong--this I could easily see; but the production was too cold, too slick and, to my way of thinking, derivative of so much synth pop of the time. I remember being annoyed with the way Christine's excellent voice was manipulated a bit in the stuido to sound more sugary than seductive, more breathy than smooth.

Stevie's songs were an all-out disaster. Seven Wonders was good--as many have already noted, but it wasn't hers. The "additional lyrics" credit she gave herself was embarassing, as if she were trying to claim some right to her only solid contribution. As ChilD had noted, Rock a Little was quite a good record. At least half of the songs were hot. So why the sudden drop in writing and performance?

I eventually warmed up to the record. I realized some of my criticisms (where Chris and Lindsey were concerned) were the result of my holding them to a standard that,, by then, was a decade old. There was no GYOW on Tango, but all of Lindsey's songs were meaty contributions. And, as an immediate fan of "Litttle Lies," I soon realized Chris struck gold. Her live performance of "Isn't It Midnight" was even better than the studio one.

Poor Stevie. No amount of spin could save her two songs, which sound inserted, inorganic to the proceedings. I was pleasantly surprised to see she returned to top form on Behind the Mask.

priestofnothing

07-16-2006, 07:02 PM

Stevie's songs were an all-out disaster. Seven Wonders was good--as many have already noted, but it wasn't hers. The "additional lyrics" credit she gave herself was embarassing, as if she were trying to claim some right to her only solid contribution. As ChilD had noted, Rock a Little was quite a good record. At least half of the songs were hot. So why the sudden drop in writing and performance?

Poor Stevie. No amount of spin could save her two songs, which sound inserted, inorganic to the proceedings. I was pleasantly surprised to see she returned to top form on Behind the Mask.

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...." Lindsey himself said there were many years of unresolved feelings between him and Stevie since they broke up 10 years before then, and that when he quit FM after Tango was released, it kind of put some closure on that.

Plus, Stevie had 3 very successful solo albums at that point, Lindsey was not enjoying that much commercial success... I could see how he wouldn't run to her aid in making this record out of jealousy or competitiveness or whatever. I think he was also resentful that she didn't spend much time in the studio for this album, he's made several snide comments about it in interviews over the years.

Just my opinion. :)

jbrownsjr

07-16-2006, 10:25 PM

aleuzzi

07-17-2006, 12:18 AM

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...." Lindsey himself said there were many years of unresolved feelings between him and Stevie since they broke up 10 years before then, and that when he quit FM after Tango was released, it kind of put some closure on that.

Plus, Stevie had 3 very successful solo albums at that point, Lindsey was not enjoying that much commercial success... I could see how he wouldn't run to her aid in making this record out of jealousy or competitiveness or whatever. I think he was also resentful that she didn't spend much time in the studio for this album, he's made several snide comments about it in interviews over the years.

Just my opinion. :)

Why would you be flamed for saying this? I think your observations are accurate. They don't change the facts of the quality of the music, but they certainly put some of it in context.

skcin

07-17-2006, 09:26 AM

I don't think that assessment is inaccurate either. LB not wanting to help Stevie (or deal with her **** anymore) is probably a huge reason why her songs weren't up to par. Of course, I must throw in my disclaimer that I actually LOVE 7W, and I do like WISYA & WTTRS a lot- BUT I understand that these songs are nowhere near her best work.

Another possibility in my mind is that Stevie had exhausted a lot of her best material on the 2 albums she released between Mirage & TITN. For a while there, it was every other for Stevie (Mac album '79, solo '81, Mac '82, solo '83.) So then was she waiting for Mac to restart & it didn't happen? Did she say "well screw them, I'm tired of waiting for LB to figure out what he wants to do, I'll put these songs out on my own album instead."

I mean, what was the band doing those 5 years? I know, solo projects & such, but 5 YEARS?!?! Can I assume that LB was the one holding out/stalling? Did he want to leave the band after Mirage, but said "f*ck it" & did one more album for the hell of it? For the money? To shut Mick up? Any clue? :shrug:

chiliD

07-17-2006, 10:21 AM

I mean, what was the band doing those 5 years? I know, solo projects & such, but 5 YEARS?!?!

One VERY GOOD point of contention of my idea that Stevie & Lindsey should've just bid adieu to Fleetwood Mac at the end of the Tusk tour. Fleetwood Mac could've carried on with new people and put out an album every (or every other) year. Buckingham & Nicks screwed us FLEETWOOD MAC fans out of at least 3 albums by not being focus solely on the band.

jbrownsjr

07-17-2006, 10:47 AM

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 10:57 AM

One VERY GOOD point of contention of my idea that Stevie & Lindsey should've just bid adieu to Fleetwood Mac at the end of the Tusk tour. Fleetwood Mac could've carried on with new people and put out an album every (or every other) year. Buckingham & Nicks screwed us FLEETWOOD MAC fans out of at least 3 albums by not being focus solely on the band.

That is a little unfair IMO because:

1. CM released a solo record

2. Mick did two I believe

and

3. None of them really seemed to be too interested in FM at the time, though during Stevie's RAL tour they apparently went back in the studio and she worked with them from the road.

So, IMO it was more than just LB and SN's solo stuff. I also think La Nicks' loyalty to a group she really did not need at the time and who really in many ways did not want her around was outstanding. Who among us would stay in that kind of work environment?

HomerMcvie

07-17-2006, 12:15 PM

That is a little unfair IMO because:

1. CM released a solo record

2. Mick did two I believe

and

3. None of them really seemed to be too interested in FM at the time, though during Stevie's RAL tour they apparently went back in the studio and she worked with them from the road.

So, IMO it was more than just LB and SN's solo stuff. I also think La Nicks' loyalty to a group she really did not need at the time and who really in many ways did not want her around was outstanding. Who among us would stay in that kind of work environment?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Mick's were only done during FM downtime(edit below).
And Chris's- wasn't it 1984? FM was in the middle of FIVE YEARS OF NOTHING! Try saying the same about the timing of Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, or Law and Order!
Okay, The Visitor was during this time, BUT, it's not like it was some all time-encompassing effort, requiring Mick two years to finish.

chiliD

07-17-2006, 12:23 PM

That is a little unfair IMO because:

1. CM released a solo record

2. Mick did two I believe

and

3. None of them really seemed to be too interested in FM at the time, though during Stevie's RAL tour they apparently went back in the studio and she worked with them from the road.

So, IMO it was more than just LB and SN's solo stuff. I also think La Nicks' loyalty to a group she really did not need at the time and who really in many ways did not want her around was outstanding. Who among us would stay in that kind of work environment?

Yeah, unfair to both Fleetwood Mac as a band and FMac's fans.

1) CM released her solo album ONLY BECAUSE there wasn't an active Fleetwood Mac at the time. Had Fleetwood Mac been an active entity, those songs would've been Fleetwood Mac songs, Christine wouldn't have released a solo album. (unlike Lindsey & Stevie, who PLANNED solo careers)

2) pretty much ditto for Mick...although his albums came as a result of playing live (the trip to Africa...then the Zoo started out as a "live only" band...the album was an afterthought)

3) My point. Stevie's RAL tour was placed at a higher priority than the Fleetwood Mac recording project. Which set up a situation of Stevie trying to do too much which affected the quality of both her solo career AND her work with Fleetwood Mac.

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 12:24 PM

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Mick's were only done during FM downtime(edit below).
And Chris's- wasn't it 1984? FM was in the middle of FIVE YEARS OF NOTHING! Try saying the same about the timing of Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, or Law and Order!
Okay, The Visitor was during this time, BUT, it's not like it was some all time-encompassing effort, requiring Mick two years to finish.

I think the point was that La Nicks and LB's solo stuff detracted from FM's ability to put out more records. I think that can be said for CM and Mick's efforts as well.

I mean Stevie's BD was relatively quickly produced and the tour was very very short.

In the end, I do not blame La Nicks one bit for moving forward with her work and essentially dropping her work and running to FM when they called - and this was also when she was in personal crisis. So, I think it is unfair to assert that her solo career in any way effected FM's ability to produce records. I actually think her very successful solo career enhanced that ability.

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Yeah, unfair to both Fleetwood Mac as a band and FMac's fans.

1) CM released her solo album ONLY BECAUSE there wasn't an active Fleetwood Mac at the time. Had Fleetwood Mac been an active entity, those songs would've been Fleetwood Mac songs, Christine wouldn't have released a solo album. (unlike Lindsey & Stevie, who PLANNED solo careers)

2) pretty much ditto for Mick...although his albums came as a result of playing live (the trip to Africa...then the Zoo started out as a "live only" band...the album was an afterthought)

3) My point. Stevie's RAL tour was placed at a higher priority than the Fleetwood Mac recording project. Which set up a situation of Stevie trying to do too much which affected the quality of both her solo career AND her work with Fleetwood Mac.

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds. And - she did everything she could to conbtribute to TITN once FM went ahead. I mean CM's solo effort was produced in relatively the same time period as much of RAL and CM toured to support it :shrug: So, I think some "fault" must be given to her as well.

Personally, I think and will always think LB was the cause of the five year gap and it had little to do with his solo career as much as his internal demons with the band and la Nicks.

chiliD

07-17-2006, 12:35 PM

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds. And - she did everything she could to conbtribute to TITN once FM went ahead. I mean CM's solo effort was produced in relatively the same time period as much of RAL and CM toured to support it :shrug: So, I think some "fault" must be given to her as well.

Personally, I think and will always think LB was the cause of the five year gap and it had little to do with his solo career as much as his internal demons with the band and la Nicks.

Sure, sure, I get the picture...in your eyes, La Nicks is blameless. No sense in going up against that brick wall any further.

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 12:41 PM

Sure, sure, I get the picture...in your eyes, La Nicks is blameless. No sense in going up against that brick wall any further.

LOL - I am not saying that and you know it!!!!

I am just saying people seemingly want to portray her as the be all and end all of the reason the Mac did nothing from 1982 to 1987. I am just nothing that four of the five did solo stuff and that solo stuff took away from time that could have been spent on Mac efforts.

As for La Nicks - again, I am unsure I would have been as loyal as she was esp. considering they really treated her poorly or at least with condescending tones a la the un released Tusk doc. footage.

But, yes, La Nicks efforts did take away from time when FM could have been doing somthing. I am just saying she was not alone in taking time for herself.

chiliD

07-17-2006, 01:02 PM

LOL - I am not saying that and you know it!!!!

I am just saying people seemingly want to portray her as the be all and end all of the reason the Mac did nothing from 1982 to 1987. I am just nothing that four of the five did solo stuff and that solo stuff took away from time that could have been spent on Mac efforts.

As for La Nicks - again, I am unsure I would have been as loyal as she was esp. considering they really treated her poorly or at least with condescending tones a la the un released Tusk doc. footage.

But, yes, La Nicks efforts did take away from time when FM could have been doing somthing. I am just saying she was not alone in taking time for herself.

And, I wasn't laying 100% blame on her...just 50%. Lindsey gets the other half. The only reason Mick & Christine even dabbled in "solo" careers was out of necessity of musical expression rather than a "grand scheme". I'd say only Mick's The Visitor project was the only real planned project he had...the I'm Not Me album was done out of "waiting" for the band. Which also must've been really frustrating, since Lindsey participated in both Mick's & Christine's solo albums at the time. If he had the time for THAT, why didn't they just do Fleetwood Mac album? :shrug:

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 01:11 PM

I do not know the answer to that. Personally, I think LB always wanted to stay in the Mac, but also wanted that "I am too cool for the mainstream" aura he likes so much, esp. at that time. I think La Nicks just got fed up asking "are we ready yet?" and set sail without the band. I think CM to some extent did the same thing with her solo venture.

I do not get the sense that LB ever thought that way. Indeed, his alleged solo work became TITN. So, he seems to always come back to them when he is ready.

What a complex group of people indeed.

Sahara

07-17-2006, 01:37 PM

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...." Lindsey himself said there were many years of unresolved feelings between him and Stevie since they broke up 10 years before then, and that when he quit FM after Tango was released, it kind of put some closure on that.

Plus, Stevie had 3 very successful solo albums at that point, Lindsey was not enjoying that much commercial success... I could see how he wouldn't run to her aid in making this record out of jealousy or competitiveness or whatever. I think he was also resentful that she didn't spend much time in the studio for this album, he's made several snide comments about it in interviews over the years.

Just my opinion. :)

That's a very interesting point -- it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Is there something in there about the quality of Stevie's work from TITN and TOSOTM? I know a lot of people really don't like that album for the same sorts of reasons they dislike her work on TITN -- production wise, lack of imagination etc.
So if Lindsey had nothing to do with OSOTM and yet the same sort of thing happened on both records, is it possible that Stevie had a lot to do with it herself?

I love them both, I'm just wondering.

David

07-17-2006, 01:44 PM

I think the point was that La Nicks and LB's solo stuff detracted from FM's ability to put out more records. I think that can be said for CM and Mick's efforts as well.

I mean Stevie's BD was relatively quickly produced and the tour was very very short. I don't think any of the 1981 projects (Law & Order, Bella Donna, The Visitor) interfered with Fleetwood Mac. After the Tusk tour, the entire band agreed to take time off, so three of the members did their own albums.

But all the solo stuff began to be a problem in later years. It was probably a vicious cycle: The less Fleetwood Mac did, the more the members did solo stuff; & the more the members did solo stuff, the less Fleetwood Mac did. Stevie's combination of albums & touring took the most time, but then again the band needed her in the studio the least for a Fleetwood Mac project. That, too, was probably a self-perpetuating cycle.

Certainly by 1985 or so, the band was unwilling to rouse itself. Finally starting work on a new album the following year was a good sign on the outside, but I don't think it compensated for the fact that several members of the band probably wished they weren't involved.

David

07-17-2006, 01:46 PM

Personally, I think LB always wanted to stay in the MacI think he wanted to get out in the mid 1980s, but didn't want to brave the emotional pain of leaving a band (& leaving a band is emotionally painful, make no mistake about it).

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 01:48 PM

I think he wanted to get out in the mid 1980s, but didn't want to brave the emotional pain of leaving a band (& leaving a band is emotionally painful, make no mistake about it).

I do too - I also think he knew that if he stayed in he could be around Stevie. After all, there are many many stories of the antics of those two on the Mirage tour that indicate they were more than friends.

HomerMcvie

07-17-2006, 01:52 PM

I do too - I also think he knew that if he stayed in he could be around Stevie. After all, there are many many stories of the antics of those two on the Mirage tour that indicate they were more than friends.
Shipper! Shipper! Shipper!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

:lol:

David

07-17-2006, 01:53 PM

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...."I think that unwillingness to help her trackify her demos stretched across many years, but I don't think it really manifested itself on Fleetwood Mac albums. What I hear in "Seven Wonders" & "When I See You Again" is some of the most gorgeously arranged & produced songs the band did throughout the entire 1980s. My hunch is that by that point, Lindsey was using entire Fleetwood Mac albums (including his material, Christine's material & Stevie's material) to show off his arrangement & production chops. I don't think he was deliberately slighting any of the other writers' material. You may not like his conception or execution, but that's a different kettle of fish from saying that he deliberately didn't put any Try into it.

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 01:53 PM

WHO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:eek: :]

Johnny Stew

07-17-2006, 05:27 PM

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds.Stevie has said... I believe to Jim Ladd... that she was there when the band first started discussing the idea of recording 'Tango' (just after the band, sans Stevie, collaborated on Christine's cover of "Can't Help Falling In Love"), but that by the time all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed, it was time for her tour to start.

If I recall correctly, she also said that she submitted several demos and recorded some stuff on the road that she sent to the band, in an attempt to stay connected to the project... but I think, ultimately, her personal demons had just gotten too far ahead of her, for her to seriously commit herself to 'Tango.'

Having said that though, it was "When I See You Again" that cemented my fandom. It may not be everyone's cup of tea... even some of Stevie's biggest diehards... but it sure hit me in a powerful way.

strandinthewind

07-17-2006, 08:51 PM

. . . Having said that though, it was "When I See You Again" that cemented my fandom. It may not be everyone's cup of tea... even some of Stevie's biggest diehards... but it sure hit me in a powerful way.

I agree that WISYA is a beautiful song and the words, to me, are great. I also think it marks the end of LB being the "master" of interpreting her work and making the instrumental nature of it into greatness a la Gypsy or Sara. I do think the music is good on Seven Wonders and WISYA though. But, it just lacked the majesty of the prior issues.

jbrownsjr

07-17-2006, 09:52 PM

I agree that WISYA is a beautiful song and the words, to me, are great. I also think it marks the end of LB being the "master" of interpreting her work and making the instrumental nature of it into greatness a la Gypsy or Sara. I do think the music is good on Seven Wonders and WISYA though. But, it just lacked the majesty of the prior issues.

i really like this song too.. it really is a great fm song

Phoenix

07-19-2006, 06:10 PM

this has been a really interesting thread.
my 2 cents:
I agree, younger fans not able to "participate" in the 70's used the videos to "connect the dots" I was a HUGE fan of who I called "the magic lady" when I was little. LOVING if anyone falls, Stand back, and of course gypsy. and LOVED got a hold on me (and the video) and sang Holiday Road out loud on every family vacation we ever took.:lol: And then when I saw the video for SEVEN WONDERS. I was like "oh my gosh, all of these people are all together. WOW, whats that about. :shocked: I just thought it was cool. Then Little lies and big love, and I remember thinking, I really love the magic lady, but I really like it when all these other people are with her cause they're really good.

Phoenix

07-23-2006, 10:52 PM

and again, I kill another thread.:distress:

HomerMcvie

07-24-2006, 12:20 AM

and again, I kill another thread.:distress:
Then WHY resurrect it, again?

BlackWidow

07-25-2006, 09:25 PM

No one was "surprised" that Tango was a huge success!
They were actually being challenged in the press for being rock n rollers
turning 40..the old should they or shouldn't they??? SO..Twenty years later...you know the rest. It was odd that Chris got more attention than Stevie on a FM project..but Stevie was not well then.."whatsamattababy"

BlackWidow

07-25-2006, 09:28 PM

Johnny Stew

07-25-2006, 10:53 PM

and again, I kill another thread.:distress:Don't worry about it -- we've all had the "last word" in a few threads here and there, even when we didn't mean to!

Phoenix

07-26-2006, 05:39 PM

That was a sweet story! We all love The Magic Lady!!!
yep:thumbsup:

Phoenix

07-26-2006, 06:10 PM

Don't worry about it -- we've all had the "last word" in a few threads here and there, even when we didn't mean to!
thanks:xoxo:

Serrart

07-26-2006, 06:15 PM

I don't think that assessment is inaccurate either. LB not wanting to help Stevie (or deal with her **** anymore) is probably a huge reason why her songs weren't up to par:

Actually Stevie songs on TITN are the element that doesn't make me ignore that record. I agree, her songs have defects (well... not that much Seven Wonders) but are able to break the sickening '80's vibe of the album. Spearately I like Christine and Lindsey's songs on it (with some exceptions), but I need Stevie's streams of consciousness not to be overwhelmed by the images of huge hairdos, bad make-ups, lousy synthetizers and a sea of shoulder pads.

Romy

BlackWidow

07-26-2006, 07:19 PM

Actually Stevie songs on TITN are the element that doesn't make me ignore that record. I agree, her songs have defects (well... not that much Seven Wonders) but are able to break the sickening '80's vibe of the album. Spearately I like Christine and Lindsey's songs on it (with some exceptions), but I need Stevie's streams of consciousness not to be overwhelmed by the images of huge hairdos, bad make-ups, lousy synthetizers and a sea of shoulder pads.

Romy
With all due respect:
Stevie flung her share of cheesy 80's schmultz in her heydey!
Do I need to post the photos to remind you??? LOL!!!

elie

07-27-2006, 03:12 AM

Like Paula:wavey: , I was also around 11-12 when TITN came out and I remember listening to Big Love and Little Lies all the time, especially in the car when I was travelling with my parents.
Not having had any other contact with older FM records at the time, I wasn't surprised..I can say for sure that I liked the songs a lot. (And a couple of years later, I discovered Rooms on Fire and then I played that all the time!).

I wouldn't say it's my favorite album but I certainly like it more than Mirage.
And I still believe that Stevie looked great in the Seven Wonders video despite of all the 80's- ness!

eclipse

07-27-2006, 08:13 AM

OH GOD--- Am I the only one that was like 28 when this Album came out???
Was always a big fan of the Mac and especially loved the Stevie/Lindsey influence.
Flashback= I remember getting the cassette tape and going over to my friend Marty's house for our first listen..Couple of beers, some w##d, and on goes the tape. At the time, I also had the big hair, shoulder pads, 80 smaltz that everyone had- Remember it was Fashion..as David Bowie would say.
Anyway, I digress...
At the time of this release, I was singing back-up vocals with a local band;(and not very well, I may add- all the smoking and scotch, did a number on my horsey little voice.) And, I was cute up there, in the shadows, but never really a great singer ;). However we did some FM and Stevie songs as part of our sets.
When I heard the Stevie tunes ...I was stunned! I swear, I am not saying this to sound like a jerk, but when I heard 7 Wonders, and Welcome to the Room, I thought...WHAT IS THAT?? I can sing better than that!!!
I was very bummed that she sounded like she was in desperate and immediate need of a serious writing/vocal vacation. However, I will state for the record (as I have before).
I totally fell in love with "When I see you Again", YES, I know, her voice is shot...but the emotion/honesty and pain she brings to that song...and Lindsey's single vocal at the end with acoustic guitar...still get to my emotional, sentimential side after all these years.
As time as passed I have come to appreciate Welcome to the Room, for the reasons already stated by others.
I loved Tango...thought it was and still do, a Lindsey Masterpiece.
Big Love, I liked... but I have come to appreciate the live versions better...Dear Lord that man can play a guitar...you don't really hear that in the studio version. Caroline has always been another favorite.

Christine's songs were right in the 80's groove too, with Mystified and Isn't it Midnight, being the highlights--- in my opinion.

And all in all I loved the TITN-Loved the cover art too-= so very different from what I came to expect from FM (tusk aside).
Although for some reason I never was fond of Family Man, or You and I

Hey just my 2 cents...more like $20.00 sorry, I got carried away:)
As usual...Great thought provoking question Paula:wavey:

Serrart

07-27-2006, 10:21 AM

With all due respect:
Stevie flung her share of cheesy 80's schmultz in her heydey!
Do I need to post the photos to remind you??? LOL!!!

I don't deny it, but not on TITN.

Romy

chiliD

07-27-2006, 10:41 AM

OH GOD--- Am I the only one that was like 28 when this Album came out???

No. But, you were still a youngster, I was "like" 31. ;) :D (The ol' saying, "never trust anyone over 30"...but, being that 30 is 20 years in my rearview mirror, I sing a different tune these days!)

madformac

07-27-2006, 04:32 PM

I think I was 13 when TIT Night came out. :laugh:

No real input from a drugged up Nicks IMO. Buckingham's Big Love is still good and I much prefer it to the self indulgent acoustic wank we get now.

Personally I prefer Christine's input on this one to any other member.

Am I the only one that thinks Lindsey's work with Christine is more musically fulfilling than the stuff he worked on for Stevie?

macfan 57

07-27-2006, 06:03 PM

Am I the only one that thinks Lindsey's work with Christine is more musically fulfilling than the stuff he worked on for Stevie?

No, you're not the only one who thinks that.:D Chris & Lindsey always worked very well together, especially on the Tango album.

BlackWidow

07-27-2006, 06:40 PM

jbrownsjr

07-27-2006, 11:38 PM

Am I the only one that thinks Lindsey's work with Christine is more musically fulfilling than the stuff he worked on for Stevie?

no, you are not the only one.... LB and CM had a chemistry that I think was responsible for FMac being very interesting musically.... sort of how oil and vinegar make a good dressing
.

strandinthewind

07-27-2006, 11:48 PM

Well..she was recovering from addiction.
Otherwise she would have stolen that album too.;)

I tend to agree in that La Nicks tends to be the center of attention if for no other reason than, despite her talent, CM eschews that part.

jbrownsjr

07-28-2006, 12:19 AM

I tend to agree in that La Nicks tends to be the center of attention if for no other reason than, despite her talent, CM eschews that part.

i agree 100% it is what it is

strandinthewind

07-28-2006, 07:34 AM

i agree 100% it is what it is

I think CM likes it when La Nicks dances around to her music. Again, I think CM and La Nicks got along great. I have always thought it was LB who would get mad at La Nicks for taking the light he wanted and she knew this and tried to tone it down a little - or hype it up if she were pissed. I mean one twirl sequence during the GYOW solo and may if not most eyes go from him to her in a second. I think CM did not have any of that for the most part a la her comments on how La Nicks' shenanigans added to the show.

madformac

07-28-2006, 07:52 AM

Seems to me that Chris was reasonably at peace with herself, at least in terms of her place in the music industry. Nicks and LB were always posturing for attention where as CM and John too seemed to me to be really musicians through and through and not too bothered with all the bull**** and glamour. Chris knew her position and never tried to be anything she wasn't, she never sold out. The two at the front are different creatures entirely and sold out for fame and fortune. Regardless of what they may say..

Christine has seen really everything in Fleetwood Mac from Peter's genius through to his personal disintegration. Jeremy, Danny, the Bobs, Billy, Rick etc etc. She already had tasted fame and fortune before Buckingham Nicks joined so I think it gave her a certain peace, call it wisdom of experience, that they never had. I think Stevie has mellowed now but LB still seems like he needs to prove something in the musical power stakes.

shackin'up

07-28-2006, 08:47 AM

but LB still seems like he needs to prove something in the musical power stakes.

And that's why he's the only one left who's really interesting........ if he did put out music....:distress:

Aisling

07-28-2006, 08:47 AM

no, you are not the only one.... LB and CM had a chemistry that I think was responsible for FMac being very interesting musically.... sort of how oil and vinegar make a good dressing
.

what a perfect assessment! i agree completely!

madformac

07-28-2006, 09:15 AM

And that's why he's the only one left who's really interesting........ if he did put out music....:distress:

I would totally agree there. Although I have to say I really loved Christine's last solo album. Chris is pretty much retired I guess. Nicks I think really should either retire/semi retire or change her approach quite soon as I think she risks looking a bit silly trying to do the same routine as the years progress, certainly she should give up the witchy woman look by 60 IMO, I think its a little embarrasing already really. (although I remind myself most witches I've seen in films are over 60!).

Lindsey is a different animal. I think he still has the talent and skills to provide us with something musically valid in these times but hes so damn anally retentive I doubt it will happen anytime before its too late.

David

07-28-2006, 10:49 AM

Chris is pretty much retired I guess. Nicks I think really should either retire/semi retire or change her approach quite soon as I think she risks looking a bit silly trying to do the same routine as the years progressShe'll never look silly to her fans. It's pretty apparent, by this point, that they will love her forever. She's a woman with a fan base & she has the full support of those devout followers. That will be her story for the rest of her life & even beyond. The fact that non-followers of Nicks think she's silly or antiquated is wholly irrelevant at this point, don't you think?

Lindsey is a different animal. I think he still has the talent and skills to provide us with something musically valid in these times but hes so damn anally retentive I doubt it will happen anytime before its too late.
He's a complete write-off. He has been a far more harmful influence on his own career than any record label or stuffy executive. His reputation worldwide is that of a constipated guitarist who seems pathologically unable to rouse himself or even sustain a career in music. He's a joke. He's like a character in an old Shaw play. He's cartoonish with his grand ideas & his passion, & no actual product. If you asked him, he'd tell you he is still going to create "the best thing I've ever done." He's delusional if he thinks that any of his neuroses or any of his pipe dreams have any validity in the marketplace. I'm still shocked he produced a Soundstage DVD, but that was what? three years after it was recorded?

Johnny Stew

07-28-2006, 10:58 AM

I think she risks looking a bit silly trying to do the same routine as the years progress....Someone should tell Mick Jagger and Tina Turner (and Bette Midler and Steven Tyler and....)! ;)

madformac

07-28-2006, 11:05 AM

She'll never look silly to her fans. It's pretty apparent, by this point, that they will love her forever. She's a woman with a fan base & she has the full support of those devout followers. That will be her story for the rest of her life & even beyond. The fact that non-followers of Nicks think she's silly or antiquated is wholly irrelevant at this point, don't you think?

Yes I see your point here David. 60 could have been 50, or even 40 right? To the non devout fans anyway. But Stevie could be stood on platform heels with a walking frame at 85 and it would be acceptable to some of those fans.

I don't think the saying "grow old gracefully" applies to the music industry. (Little Richard anyone??)

I've always believed to grow you need to adapt. I would have said survive but there are plenty of artists still around that churn out the same sound and image year after year. (I'm waiting for Gerald to mention Clapton now... :lol: )

He's a complete write-off. He has been a far more harmful influence on his own career than any record label or stuffy executive. His reputation worldwide is that of a constipated guitarist who seems pathologically unable to rouse himself or even sustain a career in music. He's a joke. He's like a character in an old Shaw play. He's cartoonish with his grand ideas & his passion, & no actual product. If you asked him, he'd tell you he is still going to create "the best thing I've ever done." He's delusional if he thinks that any of his neuroses or any of his pipe dreams have any validity in the marketplace. I'm still shocked he produced a Soundstage DVD, but that was what? three years after it was recorded?

Well, now I know Gerald will reply! :lol:

I do agree he is his own worst enemy. I don't think he can accept that possibly his best work is behind him and I think its stopping him from moving forward and getting on with at least something.

madformac

07-28-2006, 11:08 AM

Someone should tell Mick Jagger and Tina Turner (and Bette Midler and Steven Tyler and....)! ;)

I don't think Jagger applies. He's always looked.. well... That way.. :laugh:

All the others are the musical equivilent of the Hollywood curse of aging.:shocked:

I think there should be a law to stop acts performing after a certain age in the rock and pop world. :lol: Gospel, Jazz and Blues are fine..

David

07-28-2006, 11:13 AM

Well, now I know Gerald will reply! :lol: Hehheh. Well, Gerald knows I like Lindsey even though he's a complete write-off!

I do agree he is his own worst enemy. I don't think he can accept that possibly his best work is behind him and I think its stopping him from moving forward and getting on with at least something.Yes. He seems emblematic of Bloom's anxiety of influence theory, except that in Bloom it's that anxiety that spurs new achievement. Lindsey has an Oedipal conflict not with his father or his precursor but with himself!

David

07-28-2006, 11:18 AM

I think there should be a law to stop acts performing after a certain age in the rock and pop world. :lol: Gospel, Jazz and Blues are fine..
I don't mind their performing year after year. But I howl with laughter when, like Lindsey, they don't ever do anything except talk about how rich & full their bank of ideas still is & how they are just around the corner from tapping it & out will spill all these wondrous new albums & productions.

"It's the best thing I've ever done" . . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He always says he's going to "reassert" himself or "engage" his "center." Yeah, Lindsey ...:rolleyes:

Serrart

07-28-2006, 11:22 AM

She'll never look silly to her fans. It's pretty apparent, by this point, that they will love her forever. She's a woman with a fan base & she has the full support of those devout followers. That will be her story for the rest of her life & even beyond. The fact that non-followers of Nicks think she's silly or antiquated is wholly irrelevant at this point, don't you think?

I agree, and think she's highly respected in the music business and from those who aren't strictly her fans, looking at how influential for younger artists she still is now. I also believe she still has a lot to express as a songwriter if she decided to devote more time to it, but if to tour makes her happier, I'm only glad she's doing what she really wants.

He's a complete write-off. He has been a far more harmful influence on his own career than any record label or stuffy executive. His reputation worldwide is that of a constipated guitarist who seems pathologically unable to rouse himself or even sustain a career in music. He's a joke. He's like a character in an old Shaw play. He's cartoonish with his grand ideas & his passion, & no actual product. If you asked him, he'd tell you he is still going to create "the best thing I've ever done." He's delusional if he thinks that any of his neuroses or any of his pipe dreams have any validity in the marketplace. I'm still shocked he produced a Soundstage DVD, but that was what? three years after it was recorded?

I'm not the greatest fan of his solo work, but I'm quite convinced he also has much to say yet. For instance a couple of his songs on SYW were brilliant (especially Miranda) and I loved Shut us down. I know it doesn't look very likely but if Thomas Pynchon published a new book 17 years after Gravity's Rainbow (I'm not making comparisons here), even Lindsey Buckingham could finally put out that album. I'm hopeful.

Romy

skcin

07-28-2006, 12:40 PM

Yes. He seems emblematic of Bloom's anxiety of influence theory, except that in Bloom it's that anxiety that spurs new achievement. Lindsey has an Oedipal conflict not with his father or his precursor but with himself!

So, current Lindsey is in constant competition with bearded bell-bottom kimono Lindsey? Or is his nemesis tight jean short hair cowboy hat Lindsey?

I tease you, but you really made a great point. So true. :nod:

Johnny Stew

07-28-2006, 01:03 PM

So, current Lindsey is in constant competition with bearded bell-bottom kimono Lindsey? Or is his nemesis tight jean short hair cowboy hat Lindsey?I'm picturing the "Wrong" video, with the Battling Lindseys.

jbrownsjr

07-28-2006, 01:25 PM

I don't mind their performing year after year. But I howl with laughter when, like Lindsey, they don't ever do anything except talk about how rich & full their bank of ideas still is & how they are just around the corner from tapping it & out will spill all these wondrous new albums & productions.

"It's the best thing I've ever done" . . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He always says he's going to "reassert" himself or "engage" his "center." Yeah, Lindsey ...:rolleyes:

what got me was when he said, "with christine gone we'll be able to expand our sound more" and the first thing i heard was "Whats the world comin too"

good job LB! way to really dig deep, thank God CM left because she sure would have ruined that gem...

shackin'up

07-29-2006, 07:02 AM

He's a complete write-off. He has been a far more harmful influence on his own career than any record label or stuffy executive. His reputation worldwide is that of a constipated guitarist who seems pathologically unable to rouse himself or even sustain a career in music. He's a joke. He's like a character in an old Shaw play. He's cartoonish with his grand ideas & his passion, & no actual product. If you asked him, he'd tell you he is still going to create "the best thing I've ever done." He's delusional if he thinks that any of his neuroses or any of his pipe dreams have any validity in the marketplace. I'm still shocked he produced a Soundstage DVD, but that was what? three years after it was recorded?

True truer truest.

I can't say anything against this. Yer right. The freaky thing is, that it's part of his art. That anal ï'm bigger than life as an artist-attitude towards himself.

And it's the story of MY life that SUCH an artist has an entry to my soul.

IamwaitingIamwaitingohyeahohyeah

shackin'up

07-29-2006, 07:05 AM

what got me was when he said, "with christine gone we'll be able to expand our sound more" and the first thing i heard was "Whats the world comin too"

good job LB! way to really dig deep, thank God CM left because she sure would have ruined that gem...

In all 17 tracks after that he proves his point though.

jbrownsjr

07-29-2006, 06:31 PM

True truer truest.

I can't say anything against this. Yer right. The freaky thing is, that it's part of his art. That anal ï'm bigger than life as an artist-attitude towards himself.

And it's the story of MY life that SUCH an artist has an entry to my soul.

IamwaitingIamwaitingohyeahohyeah

i hear ya!

jbrownsjr

07-29-2006, 06:39 PM

In all 17 tracks after that he proves his point though.

yes and no...

1. all these songs were tracks that he was already working on without the band... they would have gone on the album whether Christine was there or not...the only thing that Christine's absence did was allow more tracks for him...she really wouldn't have done much musically other than add a cool harmony or some great hammond.... I mean really how often did you see her piano or keys get in the way of any of his stuff...

Hold Me is a great example of them playing off each other... but she never got in his way....

musically...especially live... i don't think they are a better band without her...

i will however agree that a few of his songs on SYW were the experimental stuff i like to see and was happy to hear him doing them....

I believe he missed her in that studio for a few reasons... one being Stevie... haha:laugh: (that was for you stew!)

Johnny Stew

07-29-2006, 07:09 PM

I believe he missed her in that studio for a few reasons... one being Stevie... haha:laugh: (that was for you stew!)Phoeey on you. ;)

The one thing I found strange, was that I don't recall Lindsey ever once saying he missed Christine. Perhaps he was trying to sell people on the idea of her not being there, but he only seemed to ever talk about all the great things they could do with her gone, as opposed to any comments about missing her contributions in the studio. I think Stevie was really the only one who vocally lamented Christine's absence from the recording sessions.

BlackWidow

07-29-2006, 09:07 PM

what got me was when he said, "with christine gone we'll be able to expand our sound more" and the first thing i heard was "Whats the world comin too"

good job LB! way to really dig deep, thank God CM left because she sure would have ruined that gem...
It will always be about Buckingham/Nicks:wavey: :woohoo:

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 12:16 AM

It will always be about Buckingham/Nicks:wavey: :woohoo:

yes i realize the simple minded will feel this way...:xoxo:

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 12:29 AM

Phoeey on you. ;)

The one thing I found strange, was that I don't recall Lindsey ever once saying he missed Christine. Perhaps he was trying to sell people on the idea of her not being there, but he only seemed to ever talk about all the great things they could do with her gone, as opposed to any comments about missing her contributions in the studio. I think Stevie was really the only one who vocally lamented Christine's absence from the recording sessions.

yeah Stevie Nicks said, "Are we a better band without Christine McVie? No band is ever better without someone like Christine McVie. We are different without her."

something close to this i remember her saying on AOL interview

HomerMcvie

07-30-2006, 01:34 AM

yes i realize the simple minded will feel this way...:xoxo:
I'm so glad that you're here!:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 11:42 AM

yes i realize the simple minded will feel this way...:xoxo:
Well..it will always be that simple...:wavey:

HomerMcvie

07-30-2006, 12:10 PM

Well..it will always be that simple...:wavey:
Yes, it will. We understand that your simple mind can't comprehend anything beyond the simple.:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

And the really stupid thing? You're cheating YOURSELF out of tons of great music, just because b/n aren't on it.

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 12:22 PM

Yes, it will. We understand that your simple mind can't comprehend anything beyond the simple.:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

And the really stupid thing? You're cheating YOURSELF out of tons of great music, just because b/n aren't on it.
Oh honey..I love FM! All of them..let's not forget who put them on the map!

HomerMcvie

07-30-2006, 12:49 PM

Oh honey..I love FM! All of them..let's not forget who put them on the map!
Yeah, PETER F**KING GREEN!

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 02:57 PM

Yeah, PETER F**KING GREEN!
Love Peter Green..He is not currently relevant to this line-up.
Nor is he the reason this line-up works and is successful! If it were not for
Buckingham/Nicks..John & Mick would be running a bed and breakfast in
Venice, CA. So..just keeping it real.:wavey:

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 04:18 PM

Love Peter Green..He is not currently relevant to this line-up.
Nor is he the reason this line-up works and is successful! If it were not for
Buckingham/Nicks..John & Mick would be running a bed and breakfast in
Venice, CA. So..just keeping it real.:wavey:

yeah but black widow... if you follow your "what if" logic.. then........

if not for fleetwood, john and christine... stevie would be still waiting tables at IHOP and LB would still be smoking pot in her studio apartment with his buddies trying to get polydor to distribute Buckingham Nicks II....

HomerMcvie

07-30-2006, 04:34 PM

jannieC

07-30-2006, 05:07 PM

I hated TITN when it came out. HATED it. Granted I was only 19-ish so what did I know. :shrug: Seven Wonders had to grow on me. EVentually I loved the title song, but it took me awhile. I was very disappointed with this album at the time.

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 07:42 PM

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 07:45 PM

yeah but black widow... if you follow your "what if" logic.. then........

if not for fleetwood, john and christine... stevie would be still waiting tables at IHOP and LB would still be smoking pot in her studio apartment with his buddies trying to get polydor to distribute Buckingham Nicks II....
Honey..there is no "what if" about it. Buckingham/Nicks would have made it with or without FM. FM did not gain commercial or critical success until they brought in Buckingham/Nicks! No "if's ands or what if's about that fact!
They would have been playing some lounge in Vegas otherwise.

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 07:47 PM

Eh, quit wasting yer time on her....LOST CAUSE.:lol: :lol:
You kids are just laying on the floor smoking dope relishing in your Peter Green haze...:lol:

SteveMacD

07-30-2006, 08:29 PM

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 08:36 PM

Honey..there is no "what if" about it. Buckingham/Nicks would have made it with or without FM. FM did not gain commercial or critical success until they brought in Buckingham/Nicks! No "if's ands or what if's about that fact!
They would have been playing some lounge in Vegas otherwise.

I disagree, if you read Stevie's quotes about joining FMac she says something to the effect, "Wow we were riding around in an old car and they were picking us up in limos. I mean we had just joined a Fleetwood Mac!!" This was a big move for both parties... You are going to need to trust me on this on Widow....

Do you really have knowledge of FMac's whole history? or are you just pulling my chain.. either way i like it! Bob Welch, Christine, Mick and John were already touring with a lot of success. So much so that when they quit... their manager tried to put a fake FMac so he could still rake in the cash... They were touring more than Vegas, they were touring everywhere. Buckingham Nicks did not have anywhere near the success FMac was having at this same point..They were flopping Widow and FMac saved their careers. Go break out a book widow, speak to me in what really happened... and report back... on the double!!

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 08:44 PM

You kids are just laying on the floor smoking dope relishing in your Peter Green haze...:lol:

my expertise is more in the Welch/McVie era

i refer to Chili or SteveMac when I need pre Kirwan info...

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 08:46 PM

I disagree, if you read Stevie's quotes about joining FMac she says something to the effect, "Wow we were riding around in an old car and they were picking us up in limos. I mean we had just joined a Fleetwood Mac!!" This was a big move for both parties... You are going to need to trust me on this on Widow....

Do you really have knowledge of FMac's whole history? or are you just pulling my chain.. either way i like it! Bob Welch, Christine, Mick and John were already touring with a lot of success. So much so that when they quit... their manager tried to put a fake FMac so he could still rake in the cash... They were touring more than Vegas, they were touring everywhere. Buckingham Nicks did not have anywhere near the success FMac was having at this same point..They were flopping Widow and FMac saved their careers. Go break out a book widow, speak to me in what really happened... and report back... on the double!!
Bitch -
I was there!

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 08:48 PM

Hmmm, so why is it that neither Stevie or Lindsey sing on what was the break out single (Over My Head), which has a guitar part that could have easily been played by Bob Welch (compare it to the song "Heroes Are Hard To Find")? Now, go think about that one for a while.
Because that song sucks..they refused to do harmonies for it..:wavey:

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 08:50 PM

my expertise is more in the Welch/McVie era

i refer to Chili or SteveMac when I need pre Kirwan info...
EXACTLY!
You have no clue...:cool:

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 08:50 PM

Bitch -
I was there!

oh ok .

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 08:52 PM

EXACTLY!
You have no clue...:cool:

thanks best buddy:woohoo:

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 08:53 PM

thanks best buddy:woohoo:
LMFAO....:lol: :lol:

Johnny Stew

07-30-2006, 08:56 PM

Hmmm, so why is it that neither Stevie or Lindsey sing on what was the break out single (Over My Head)I'm staying away from the age-old Peter Green vs. Buckingham Nicks argument, but I had to ask why people say that Lindsey and Stevie aren't singing on "Over My Head."
Ok, I'll admit that I don't hear Lindsey, but I absolutely hear Stevie. She's actually singing a high harmony, but she's definitely there.

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 08:59 PM

I'm staying away from the age-old Peter Green vs. Buckingham Nicks argument, but I had to ask why people say that Lindsey and Stevie aren't singing on "Over My Head."
Ok, I'll admit that I don't hear Lindsey, but I absolutely hear Stevie. She's actually singing a high harmony, but she's definitely there.

it doesn't matter.. my point is that they helped each other... is that not clear to you simpletons!!!! (total sarcasm)

jbrownsjr

07-30-2006, 09:02 PM

LMFAO....:lol: :lol:

where are in you Los Angeles... we need to go have a drink and fight it out dammit!

Johnny Stew

07-30-2006, 09:08 PM

it doesn't matter.. my point is that they helped each other... is that not clear to you simpletons!!!! (total sarcasm)Ooh, John -- you know I love when you get fired up. *bats eyelashes* :laugh:

Of course you know you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned... while I might have a preference towards the Buckingham Nicks years, I love all eras of the band. For my money, they've all made their mark... to one degree or another... and all deserve credit for the fact that Fleetwood Mac still exists in 2006. :thumbsup:

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 09:23 PM

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 09:25 PM

where are in you Los Angeles... we need to go have a drink and fight it out dammit!
I'll take you to the Mat baby!:cool:

BlackWidow

07-30-2006, 09:27 PM

Ooh, John -- you know I love when you get fired up. *bats eyelashes* :laugh:

Of course you know you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned... while I might have a preference towards the Buckingham Nicks years, I love all eras of the band. For my money, they've all made their mark... to one degree or another... and all deserve credit for the fact that Fleetwood Mac still exists in 2006. :thumbsup:
very true.."We are the world..We are the children":xoxo:

HomerMcvie

07-30-2006, 11:39 PM

Bitch -
I was there!
Bullsh*t!!!!! If you're really not 16 years old, you just completely
BLEW MY MIND!!!

Because you CERTAINLY come across at being about 16...(no smiley needed, because I'm 100% serious.)l

David

07-31-2006, 10:30 AM

Of course you know you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned... while I might have a preference towards the Buckingham Nicks years, I love all eras of the band. For my money, they've all made their mark... to one degree or another... and all deserve credit for the fact that Fleetwood Mac still exists in 2006. :thumbsup:See, I don't give anyone credit for making marks or "keeping the band going" because I feel it's irrelevant. It's a silly way of congratulating oneself on one's tastes or something. I don't really understand it.

A band records some songs & either I like them or I don't. I don't care who kept what going or what would have happened if or whatever else. Peter & Danny were great for aesthetic reasons, not sociological reasons ... & of course same for any of the other parts of Fleetwood Mac that were great. This is why I give MacDougall such a hard time all the time. He's always citing data--irrelevant numbers & historodemographics to indicate so & so. Or Homie, who, in a discussion of the artistry of the Bob Welch years, just drags in the sociology of bringing the band to America or keeping it going or some such other irrelevancy--irrelevant to aesthetics, to what actually got put on the album & what it sounds like.

Also Stevie's biggest fans: They credit her with gifting them with her songs or they credit her dad for being the paragon of all dads or her mom for being the kindest, gentlest soul that ever breathed Arizona air.

All this sociology goes in one of my ears & out the other!

BlackWidow

07-31-2006, 10:40 AM

Bullsh*t!!!!! If you're really not 16 years old, you just completely
BLEW MY MIND!!!

Because you CERTAINLY come across at being about 16...(no smiley needed, because I'm 100% serious.)l
whateva greenie....you dont know shiite...:xoxo:

BlackWidow

07-31-2006, 10:42 AM

See, I don't give anyone credit for making marks or "keeping the band going" because I feel it's irrelevant. It's a silly way of congratulating oneself on one's tastes or something. I don't really understand it.

A band records some songs & either I like them or I don't. I don't care who kept what going or what would have happened if or whatever else. Peter & Danny were great for aesthetic reasons, not sociological reasons ... & of course same for any of the other parts of Fleetwood Mac that were great. This is why I give MacDougall such a hard time all the time. He's always citing data--irrelevant numbers & historodemographics to indicate so & so. Or Homie, who, in a discussion of the artistry of the Bob Welch years, just drags in the sociology of bringing the band to America or keeping it going or some such other irrelevancy--irrelevant to aesthetics, to what actually got put on the album & what it sounds like.

Also Stevie's biggest fans: They credit her with gifting them with her songs or they credit her dad for being the paragon of all dads or her mom for being the kindest, gentlest soul that ever breathed Arizona air.

All this sociology goes in one of my ears & out the other!
Points well spoken...

SteveMacD

07-31-2006, 07:33 PM

but I had to ask why people say that Lindsey and Stevie aren't singing on "Over My Head."
Ok, I'll admit that I don't hear Lindsey, but I absolutely hear Stevie. She's actually singing a high harmony, but she's definitely there.

Johnny, that harmony is layered. It's Christine harmonizing with herself. She did that a lot before and after Stevie and Lindsey were in the band. Listen a little closer. The voice is too rich/full to be Stevie, who has a more nasal voice.

SteveMacD

07-31-2006, 07:36 PM

Because that song sucks..they refused to do harmonies for it..:wavey:

Well, if that were really the case (which, it was not), their attitudes certainly changed rather quickly.

BlackWidow

07-31-2006, 07:37 PM

Well, if that were really the case (which, it was not), their attitudes certainly changed rather quickly.
I guess that had mercy on her...:wavey:

BlackWidow

07-31-2006, 07:38 PM

strandinthewind

07-31-2006, 07:58 PM

Johnny, that harmony is layered. It's Christine harmonizing with herself. She did that a lot before and after Stevie and Lindsey were in the band. Listen a little closer. The voice is too rich/full to be Stevie, who has a more nasal voice.

I hear Stevie as well. In fact, in Mick's book, he refers to that song and how when it was hit, La Nicks felt better because her voice had been an significant part of the harmony.

BlackWidow

08-01-2006, 12:02 PM

I hear Stevie as well. In fact, in Mick's book, he refers to that song and how when it was hit, La Nicks felt better because her voice had been an significant part of the harmony.
Very True Strand...:D

SpyNote

08-09-2006, 01:54 AM

I'm totally behind in this thread, so some of this may have already been covered...

I was a sickly child of 15 lying in a hospital bed :p when I first heard the Tango album. My brother bought me the cassette and I listened to the album nonstop for the week that I was there. The songs I enjoyed most at the time were Christine's and I recall being initially very disappointed with all of Stevie's songs, especially Welcome to the Room...Sara, which I thought was a silly title. I did like When I See You Again but kept obsessing over how Lindsey changed "when I see you again" to "if I see you again," and not understanding why having little background on their relationship. I'm pretty sure I asked the nurse for her opinion.

I loved all the MTV coverage and how they played Fleetwood Mac videos all day until the new Big Love vid premiered. (I know I have the whole day taped on VHS somewhere because back in the day, that's all I did--watch and tape MTV for hours on end. Unlike other kids in my neighborhood, I didn't get a job, go to summer camp, or read 1984 and Brave New World for English class.) Mark Goodman was so into it all. And then a few months later the Little Lies videos hit #1 on their very unscientific video chart for like four weeks. :laugh: Any of you remember VJ Carolyn Helmond? She was so down to earth and an obvious Mac fan as well, loved her.

Someone mentioned remixes from the album. Looking back, they're kind of cheesy and dated (Mac never did find their niche on the dance floor). But I still like them in spite of their world music sound. Here are some remixes from the album.

Big Love (Single Remix) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=AD8B47624FA853DE)
There's way too much going on in this mix. But I like the mix over all because it sounds, well, big. :D I favor the remix's transitional solo to the bridge over the album's.

Seven Wonders (Remix Edit) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=140028BA27EBB39A)
I edited the main remix years ago, adding the cool guitar part that Lindsey plays in the dub version.

Little Lies (Remix Edit) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=AEFCB4216F428EE2)
This one starts with the dub intro and segues into the main remix, slightly edited.

Family Man (Remix Edit) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E152A36715FD8CE6)
Pared down edit of the Extended Vocal Remix

face of glass

08-09-2006, 03:42 AM

Big Love (single remix) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=AD8B47624FA853DE)

There's way too much going on in this mix. But I like the mix over all because it sounds, well, big. :D I favor the remix's transitional solo to the bridge over the album's.
Arthur Baker. :nod:

But wasn't the extended version of this even cooler with that prominent Stevie vocal track that wasn't on the album version? And the toying of her and Lindsey's voices on the sampler, funny stuff.

SpyNote

08-09-2006, 11:59 AM

Arthur Baker. :nod:

But wasn't the extended version of this even cooler with that prominent Stevie vocal track that wasn't on the album version? And the toying of her and Lindsey's voices on the sampler, funny stuff.

I like her unused backups for Big Love, not so much on Little Lies and Family Man.

nightbird28

08-12-2006, 03:35 PM

I was 3 when TITN came out but I do remember it was the only Fleetwood Mac Album my aunt owned and she didn't like them, but she loved that record. When I first listened to it I absolutely loved Seven Wonders, and Caroline. I could have done without mystified. I know it seems to be a very solid record my gf who never heard of FM till she met me fell in love with Family Man.

there's my 2 cents.

Johnny Stew

08-12-2006, 09:20 PM

Seven Wonders (remix edit)
I edited the main remix years ago, adding the cool guitar part that Lindsey plays in the dub version.Daniel, you made this? Excellent job! I always wondered where it originated, since I've never been able to track it down on a 12" promo.
I actually use this version anytime I want to include "Seven Wonders" on a compilation. :thumbsup:

SpyNote

08-13-2006, 05:00 PM

Daniel, you made this? Excellent job! I always wondered where it originated, since I've never been able to track it down on a 12" promo.
I actually use this version anytime I want to include "Seven Wonders" on a compilation. :thumbsup:

Thanks. I've always been a fan of "single remixes" so if there isn't one avaiable, I will try to make one :woohoo:

Here's an edit of Tracy Young's Club Mix. It's a shame they didn't release an official radio version. With the radio success of Deep Dish's Dreams, I'm sure Planets would have been a radio hit as well.

Planets of the Universe (Tracy Young Club Edit) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F5DFE61B7A247FC6)

I added a few other Tango edits (see earlier message) that I made for Remix in the Night, a CD-R comp I put together when I was ga ga over burning CDs.

Phoenix

08-13-2006, 06:54 PM

Thanks. I've always been a fan of "single remixes" so if there isn't one avaiable, I will try to make one :woohoo:

Here's an edit of Tracy Young's Club Mix. It's a shame they didn't release an official radio version. With the radio success of Deep Dish's Dreams, I'm sure Planets would have been a radio hit as well.

Planets of the Universe (Tracy Young Club Edit) (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F5DFE61B7A247FC6)

I added a few other Tango edits (see earlier message) that I made for Remix in the Night, a CD-R comp I put together when I was ga ga over burning CDs.

THESE REMIXES ROCK!!!!!!! Seriously, you are my new hero.