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BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 01:54 AM

Come Into My Parlour

Spencer Bright
VOX Magazine (London) February 1992***

Deserted by Mick Fleetwood, bullied by her record company, and haunted by the memory of four abortions, Stevie Nicks is rich but not happy. Spencer Bright breaks out the Kleenex for the woman who couldn't go her own way. Homely snaps by George Bodnar.

I pull a Kleenex from its box and hand it to Stevie Nicks. She wipes a tear as it slides down her cheek. She cries when she speaks of Mick Fleetwood, she cries when she speaks of the babies she might have had, and she cries when she speaks of the bullies in the record industry shoving her around. She's like a damsel in distress in her castle, and we're in her fairy land lounge. There is a warm glow from the chunky candles and the blue flame on the log fire. While outside in LA, the temperature sizzles up to 80.

Stevie points out her favourite chaise lounge. Her favourite doll, which resembles her, sits regally upon it. Shawls are draped about. One, a 12-year-old garment, is loosely draped around the chanteuse. Stevie needs the comfort of these long familiar possessions; they stress a continuity and equilibrium that have been sadly lacking in her emotional life.

To say that Stevie Nicks is considered flaky is a mild understatement. But, as with so many things Nicksian, it's a mythical fog that masks the true woman. She isn't just a mystical old crone running a witches coven in the Hollywood Hills. The fantasy world she appears to inhabit actually stems from her love of England, mainly its history, kings and queens.

Her home in Encino - up the road from Dave Stewart's house and over the brow of the hill from that of her former lover Tom Petty - is the sort of chocolate box creation you'd expect to find in a theme park. From the outside it's a Tudor mansion with Elephantitis; as you enter there's a drained waterfall replaced by plants and flowers running alongside the winding brick staircase.

Climbing the stairs it changes from medieval to Hansel and Gretel, as the carved wooden banisters meander perpendicularly up three more stories. At the top of the house is an octagonal bell tower, but there's no bell, just a viewing platform and windows where Stevie, her friends, and employees go to watch the sun set over San Fernando Valley.

I'm given a guided tour that the barman at my hotel would have died and gone to Heaven for. There's Stevie's grand four-poster bed with lace cushions and lacy covers. In the adjoining dressing room a sweet musty smell of perfume hangs in the air. All around are satin and silk nightgowns bunched on hangers. Stevie says she bought this house because she could imagine Ann Boleyn living here.

When Stevie Nicks first made money with Fleetwood Mac, she was able to fulfil her Dickensian fantasies of looking like a "ragged doll"- she came off resembling Artful Dodger, Bill Sykes' girlfriend from Oliver Twist and Miss Haversham from Great Expectations.

Stevie is not quite sure where this obsession with English things came from. "It was born into me. Maybe my last life was in England." Thus, when, in January 1975, a 6'5'' English eccentric named Mick Fleetwood came and asked her and her boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham to join his band, she had to say yes. "Just the idea that his band was English was reason enough to join. It was a dream come true." It was also a perfect opportunity to learn about kings, queens, princes and princesses.

Fleetwood perfectly matched her dreams. "The first time Mick walked into the room I thought I was witnessing the entrance of an English king, because that's how he looked to me. He was wearing a burgundy coloured water silk vest (waistcoat) with a watch chain and a very long jacket that was very nipped at the waist, and beautifully made pants. I was awe struck. I still am to this day of Mick's presence. The whole air around him is power." The people who saw Fleetwood's performance with Samantha Fox may find this a little hard to accept.

Previously Lindsey Buckingham had dominated Stevie. He was the artist; he didn't know how to do anything except music. "What was he going to do, sell shoes? I had a $50,000 education, I could do anything." Her waitress job paid for the rent, the food, the car. "I knew it was going to take my strength to push Lindsey and I over the edge if we were going to make it in the music business."

After Buckingham came a rogues' gallery of rock'n'roll suitors not known for their wimpishness- Joe Walsh, Don Henley, Tom Petty and producers Jimmy Iovine and Rupert Hine. And the man who called his on-the-road dalliances an attack of "veal viper", Mick Fleetwood. All get their individual tributes on Stevie's Best Of compilation album, Timespace.

In parallel with the last 10 years of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie enjoyed the most successful career of the whole group. Her first solo album, Bella Donna, sold 10 million copies and subsequent collections have enjoyed less spectacular, but still reputable sales. Now, though, with the apparently final demise of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie is suffering a personal and professional crisis.

The recent Mac troubles can be traced to an old song called Silver Springs. So taken was Stevie's mother by this number that she was moved to open an antique clothing shop in Phoenix in the same name. Stevie made a gift of the song to her.

Silver Springs nearly became a classic, but was dropped at the last minute from the 20-million selling Rumours album. Stevie thought it would be nice to resurrect the song and place it on Timespace. But Mick Fleetwood refused to give up the group's performance rights; he wants the option of having the number on a boxed set due for this year's commemoration of Fleetwood Mac's 25th anniversary.

"I have told the world what a vile thing it was that Mick Fleetwood had done to me, who has fought like a dog for 15 years to keep this band from breaking up. I don't really know what's going through Mick's mind. He never returned a phone call, and he never felt it was his duty to sit down and write a letter to tell me why.

"He has always been very English, and very proper and sometimes very arrogant, but to me a very close and loving friend. And somebody that I always felt I could trust and love" says Stevie, wiping away tears.

"He has always been the boss of the group. He has always made all the decisions. And he has always made all the decisions. And he has always made them without asking anyone else. So he had no reason to do this to us. To break up the whole band."

In the tradition on rock'n'roll's greatest soap opera, Stevie has Fleetwood's soon-to-be ex-wife Sarah on her side. "She's singing with me now, she's a very good friend. She's divorcing Mick after being with him for 13 years; they are completely separated. She doesn't understand."

Stevie has included 'Beauty and the Beast' on Timespace, a song written about her affair with Mick in the late 70's. She explains that it is not a dig at him being a beast, but about the beauty and the beast within us all. The album's sleeve notes are full of similar references to her ex-lovers.

Was there a common thread among her men? "They're all very smart and very loving, and they all had a difficult time with my life and the way that I live it and how busy I am." For four lovers, a crucial test came when she became pregnant and opted for terminations. "It's always been a tragedy. But they understood." But they didn't really. "Eventually their hearts couldn't take it, they couldn't understand quite enough, how deeply embedded in this I was. And so it eventually hurt them too much and they had to leave, or face devastation on their own."

She put her relationship with her fans before a relationship with one man. Ever since she saw Janis Joplin perform, Stevie has wanted to emulate her, to achieve that state of communion with the crowd. "I just wanted to be in love with my audience and I wanted them to be in love with me back."

But now there is remorse at the havoc her abortions have wreaked on her psyche. "To give up four babies is to give up a lot that would be here now. So that bothers me, a lot, and really breaks my heart. But they're gone, so..." She composes herself. "But I couldn't have because I was too busy. And I had all these commitments." She wants to adopt, but age and single-parenthood are against her.

"I've also though about having one myself but I'm booked up for the next four years. I don't know if, at my age, I can get pregnant right away, do an album at the same time, have a baby, promote an album, go out on tour with the baby. So I'm going back and forth in my mind. At 43 years old, my time clock is ticking, so I can't afford to wait around for very long." Surely these are the same excuses she made on the last four occasions -- with two important differences. There is no obvious candidate for the father, and even if there were, the decision totally remains in her hands.

In an epic inversion of the star's role, she is subservient to the 40 people who depend on her for their livelihoods. "I don't know quite how to walk away without hurting a lot of people -- even though every one of those people would say 'you've done a lot for us and we know that you love us, but go do something for yourself for a change' But I just can't."

The determination, toughness, and pragmatism that helped her achieve success now seem elusive, but what hurts most is being pushed around by business moguls. She is smarting from the inclusion - against her wishes - of Jon Bon Jovi's song "Sometimes It's a Bitch" on Timespace.

"I was told that if I didn't do a song by Jon Bon Jovi then my career was over. I don't have any reason to hate Jon Bon Jovi. He wrote me a song that was a wonderful thing to do. I knew that just me singing it wasn't going to go over well with my fans, which it hasn't. But I was told by the industry, by management, and by everybody else that if I did NOT do this, and reach this new audience, that my career was simply, finally, completely over.

They exerted all the pressure you could possibly exert, they scared me to death. So I did the song, and is it a big hit song? No, it's not."

She found it particularly distasteful to sing the word 'bitch', which she considers a swear word. Stevie concedes that she has difficulty challenging authority figures.

It all makes her appear so fragile. While we speak she only opens her doe eyes to wipe away the tears, preferring instead to look down when the talk gets serious. There are no crutches anymore. she gave up the cocaine and alcohol in 1986 when she admitted herself to the Betty Ford Center.

Bad as she was, she still had the inner strength to take control of her destiny, probably because she sensed she was in mortal danger. One night she was inspired to write a personal creed: "I am not special, I am not infallible, I am dying."

"I started crying really hard, and I wrote under it something to the effect never forget these three lines. And so I feel that yes, I can write stories for people, but that I'm not indestructible that I'm not special. And that I was dying. So, that was a very bug turning point at Betty Ford for me."

If Fleetwood Mac had been told to do 'Sometimes It's A Bitch', she thinks she knows what would have happened. "Mick would have ridden in on his white horse and swept me up and told them all to go to hell and say I won't let her do it." The tragedy is that after all these struggles, Stevie Nicks is a victim once again.

Photo caption:
VOX was privileged to receive a guided tour of Stevie Nicks's home. However, since several previous attempts at photographing the interior of her mansion had not matched up to her idea of how it should look, Nicks chose to recreate the interior in sympathetic lighting conditions.

Two days later Ms. Nicks summoned our photographer to a professional sound-stage at a studio near LA International airport. There, with the aid of two articulated lorries of furniture, clothes, dolls, and assorted knickknacks, she recreated her bedroom. A staff of more than a dozen people-- including caterers (note bulging fridge), lighting men, set builders, makeup artists, hairdressers, and a mysterious "personal assistant"-- spent a whole day recreating the authentic ambiance of Stevie's home.

All of this was done at her own cost. But Ms. Nicks is no stranger to excess. During the last Fleetwood Mac world tour, she had every hotel room she stayed in redecorated to her personal taste-- and at her own considerable cost

BombaySapphire3

07-06-2006, 03:26 AM

strandinthewind

07-06-2006, 06:49 AM

It did. I must point out though that the reference to the "four" in this article referes I believe to a live interview around that time, where it is unclear whether she refers to four abortions or four lovers or loves of her life. We do know, however, that she had an abortion for Don Henley's child in the 70's as they have both admitted that.

Kelly

07-06-2006, 08:00 AM

Hopefully this thread will die quickly. :rolleyes:

danax6

07-06-2006, 08:14 AM

Why, why, why did this get posted again? :shrug:

DashingDan

07-06-2006, 08:26 AM

I liked the picture of the stocked 'fridge in the article.

Christopher

07-06-2006, 09:07 AM

Thanks for posting this article...I have never read it.....such a dark time for Stevie, you cant help but cringe when you read it....she was so bitter during this era.

I understand the controversy of Stevies' revelations during this interview may stir the pot between us fans, but I dont think such honest and candid words should be swept under the carpet.

Stevies interviews of this era (91'-94' )were the most down to earth and candid of her entire career, a must read for a true Stevie fan not interested in revisionist history. To say that Stevies career has been codependent upon image and illusion is an understatement, so few articles such as this gives us flashes of the the real woman behind the curtain.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 10:00 AM

Why, why, why did this get posted again? :shrug:
I meant no malice..I had never seen this article.:angel:

strandinthewind

07-06-2006, 10:18 AM

I think it is fine to post the article, esp. if you have never seen it, etc. Having said that, the article created a huge argument awhile back on this board and others and the poster then did not have your good intent. So, I say no harm and no foul - but I also say that all of the peeps worried about where this thread could lead to should just avoid this thread, etc.

Anyway, my $0.02

Standback383

07-06-2006, 10:34 AM

I've never read this article either....I had only heard of it until now....

Hawkeye

07-06-2006, 10:46 AM

This article is FASCINATING. I've never read it. How any of you can complain that BlackWidow posted is beyond me. Look past the abortions part, this article shows more then anything I've seen just how depressed Stevie was in this era. Say what you want about Stevie now, but at least shes happy with what shes doing now. In 1992 it appears that she's regreting her decision to focus on her career quite a bit.

And another thing, her feelings for Mick really came through in this article. I always knew of how her lovers she's had the closest connection to Mick, but never as much as this article says. I also never knew Stevie had a thing for England and thats a big reason why she wanted to join, becuase she was joining 3 englishmen. I loved the end when she said Mick would've rode in on a white horse and said she doesnt have to do SIAB. Im guessing that song will never be a suprise in a Stevie show :lol:

But Id say the biggest shocker in this article is that Stevie was actually considering maybe having a kid in 1992. It sounds she was at a crossroads and seriously considering it.

danax6

07-06-2006, 11:28 AM

But Id say the biggest shocker in this article is that Stevie was actually considering maybe having a kid in 1992. It sounds she was at a crossroads and seriously considering it.Oh, she said that in most of the 89-93 articles, that's nothing new. It wasn't until around the Dance that suddenly she started saying that she never regretted making the decisions she made. Me thinks she was having a lot of regrets in the early 90's.

David

07-06-2006, 12:01 PM

Come Into My Parlour

Spencer Bright
VOX Magazine (London) February 1992***Great article, BlackWidow! Thanks for posting it. In this along with the 1991 BBC radio interview, you really hear a woman on the skids. It's like Fitzgerald--like "The Crackup"--or one of those blubbery, mawkish Susan Hayward movies.
I pull a Kleenex from its box and hand it to Stevie Nicks. She wipes a tear as it slides down her cheek. She cries when she speaks of Mick Fleetwood, she cries when she speaks of the babies she might have had, and she cries when she speaks of the bullies in the record industry shoving her around. She's like a damsel in distress in her castle, and we're in her fairy land lounge. Had anyone else I know been in her state, he'd have been in bed in privacy. It's unfortunate that Stevie felt compelled to continue marketing & careering all through this ghastly emotional jam.
Stevie points out her favourite chaise lounge. Now to me what's shocking is how Vox editors would let slip this solecism without correcting it.
Climbing the stairs it changes from medieval to Hansel and Gretel, as the carved wooden banisters meander perpendicularly up three more stories. At the top of the house is an octagonal bell tower, but there's no bell, just a viewing platform and windows where Stevie, her friends, and employees go to watch the sun set over San Fernando Valley.That's a rare day, given the smog.
Stevie is not quite sure where this obsession with English things came from. "It was born into me. Maybe my last life was in England." Or gee Stevie maybe you're just an Anglophile like millions of other people.
Thus, when, in January 1975, a 6'5'' English eccentric named Mick Fleetwood came and asked her and her boyfriend Lindsey Buckingham to join his band, she had to say yes. "Just the idea that his band was English was reason enough to join. It was a dream come true." It was also a perfect opportunity to learn about kings, queens, princes and princesses.There's a perfect example of Stevie's "intelligence": joining a rock band in Southern CA provides a "perfect opportunity" to learn about the succession of the Stuarts or the vagaries of the House of Hanover (as if Mick Fleetwood has any more idea of it than Stevie did).
Fleetwood perfectly matched her dreams. "The first time Mick walked into the room I thought I was witnessing the entrance of an English king, because that's how he looked to me. He was wearing a burgundy coloured water silk vest (waistcoat) with a watch chain and a very long jacket that was very nipped at the waist, and beautifully made pants. I was awe struck. I still am to this day of Mick's presence. The whole air around him is power." The people who saw Fleetwood's performance with Samantha Fox may find this a little hard to accept.I still haven't seen a video of that legendary botchup! Anyone have it for YouTube?
Previously Lindsey Buckingham had dominated Stevie. He was the artist; he didn't know how to do anything except music. "What was he going to do, sell shoes?He could have taught swimming at the camp for kids or been a lifeguard; he could have taught music/guitar/bass; he could have taken part in his dad's business. There are dozens of things he could have done for a decent income.
In parallel with the last 10 years of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie enjoyed the most successful career of the whole group. Her first solo album, Bella Donna, sold 10 million copieswhoa--is that accurate? that seems inflated by at least twice. I thought BD was about 4 million in worldwide sales.
But now there is remorse at the havoc her abortions have wreaked on her psyche. "To give up four babies is to give up a lot that would be here now. So that bothers me, a lot, and really breaks my heart. But they're gone, so..." She composes herself. "But I couldn't have because I was too busy. And I had all these commitments." She wants to adopt, but age and single-parenthood are against her. This is an excellent read, this interview. Thanks again for posting it, Widow.

Doesn't anybody remember two stays in Betty Ford? One around the early part of the '86 year & another in very late '86? I think the L.A. Times cryptically reported the first one & then made the 2nd one much more public. But I never hear fans talk about it.

Boots

07-06-2006, 01:23 PM

Thanks for posting this, BlackWidow! I've never seen it before. It's extremely fascinating, and does indeed show how vulnerable our girl was back in the early 90's. Sometimes, tho...I wish she'd be a bit stronger. She does tend to play the victim in many of her recollections, and that's not a very pleasing trait in La Nicks. You make yourself the victim, Stevie - not other people....you.

In the words and melody of an old, wise Joni Mitchell song..."It all comes down...to you."

David

07-06-2006, 01:28 PM

Thanks for posting this, BlackWidow! I've never seen it before. It's extremely fascinating, and does indeed show how vulnerable our girl was back in the early 90's. Sometimes, tho...I wish she'd be a bit stronger. She does tend to play the victim in many of her recollections, and that's not a very pleasing trait in La Nicks. You make yourself the victim, Stevie - not other people....you.her fans respond deeply to that.
In the words and melody of an old, wise Joni Mitchell song..."It all comes down...to you."That's in "Gypsy" too! :thumbsup:

SuzeQuze

07-06-2006, 01:45 PM

Yes, this topic has created heated discussions in other forums as well. The minute it gets nasty the thread will be archived. Otherwise the topic remains open to intelligent discussion. Remember to keep your anger and emotions in check and no personal attacks. If this topic or a post makes you angry, please wait to respond until you're no longer angry.

HejiraNYC

07-06-2006, 02:10 PM

He was wearing a burgundy coloured water silk vest (waistcoat) with a watch chain and a very long jacket that was very nipped at the waist, and beautifully made pants. I was awe struck. I still am to this day of Mick's presence. The whole air around him is power."

Ah... finally I get it. The song "Watchdevil" is about Mick:

"And a watch chain becomes you...
You're just a watch chain...
Watchdevil... keeper of the time."

As the drummer in the band, Mick is literally the keeper of the time. Duh! I love the way she made the association between Mick the drummer and this rather innocuous (but telling) accessory he was wearing. Brilliant. But what's really intriguing is that last verse:

"Be aware of the danger as you cross the great water.
Be careful of strangers who are new to your eyes.
Be careful of the people who look not straight at you.
~The keeper of the time is blind.
~The keeper of the time is blind."

Could this possibly have to do with Mick and the affair that his then-wife had with Bob Weston, who had just recently started in the band? And Mick was initially kind of oblivious to what was going on?

Discuss.

HejiraNYC

07-06-2006, 02:15 PM

uh didn't this article result in a shake up of sorts on here quite a few years ago including the acrimonious departure of a group of Ledgies and the subsequent creation of an alternate somewhat darker ledge.I may be mistaken but I think that this article and the posting of it caused quite a stir at one time.:shrug:

Did I miss something? I'm totally not understanding why this article would have caused an uproar or caused people to form their own underground sect. It's a fascinating article about a very sad time in Stevie's life. So what's all the fuss for? :shrug:

skcin

07-06-2006, 02:23 PM

Ah... finally I get it. The song "Watchdevil" is about Mick:

"And a watch chain becomes you...
You're just a watch chain...
Watchdevil... keeper of the time."

As the drummer in the band, Mick is literally the keeper of the time. Duh! I love the way she made the association between Mick the drummer and this rather innocuous (but telling) accessory he was wearing. Brilliant. But what's really intriguing is that last verse:

"Be aware of the danger as you cross the great water.
Be careful of strangers who are new to your eyes.
Be careful of the people who look not straight at you.
~The keeper of the time is blind.
~The keeper of the time is blind."

Could this possibly have to do with Mick and the affair that his then-wife had with Bob Weston, who had just recently started in the band? And Mick was initially kind of oblivious to what was going on?

Discuss.

That is a very interesting interpretation of that tune. I've never thought of Watchdevil being about a specific person, and that does make sense. But when was Watchdevil written and/or recorded? I always assumed it was a BN demo, but I'm not sure.

Did I miss something? I'm totally not understanding why this article would have caused an uproar or caused people to form their own underground sect. It's a fascinating article about a very sad time in Stevie's life. So what's all the fuss for? :shrug:

The abortion issue gets some people upset, and then people argue about how accurate & truthful the article is, and then it gets personal, and then the thread gets locked. :laugh: You know, like usual.

Johnny Stew

07-06-2006, 02:24 PM

There's a perfect example of Stevie's "intelligence": joining a rock band in Southern CA provides a "perfect opportunity" to learn about the succession of the Stuarts or the vagaries of the House of Hanover (as if Mick Fleetwood has any more idea of it than Stevie did).It should be noted, though, that the "perfect opportunity to learn about kings, queens, princes and princesses" comment was made by the author of the article, not by Stevie.

I've never had any major problems with this article... it's more sad and depressing than shocking or inflammatory. One thing is certain, Stevie is undoubtably human, and she's as vulnerable to life's ups and downs as the rest of us. This article shows her at the lowest point in her life, and, as a document to that time period, it makes her ultimate reemergence as a healthy, vibrant, clear-headed woman all the more impressive.

DavidMn

07-06-2006, 03:02 PM

I meant no malice..I had never seen this article.:angel:Dont worry. I've never seen it before and I found it informing. I dont think you should have to apologize. I find it rather rude for people to jump down someone's throat that meant no malice.

HejiraNYC

07-06-2006, 03:11 PM

That is a very interesting interpretation of that tune. I've never thought of Watchdevil being about a specific person, and that does make sense. But when was Watchdevil written and/or recorded? I always assumed it was a BN demo, but I'm not sure.

If memory serves, I believe Watchdevil first surfaced on the FM "Almanac" bootleg LP that was released in either 1979 or 1980. I would suspect that it is a "Rumours" era boot since to my ears the bass sounds like John McVie and her voice has that "Dreams"-like raspy quality to it. And since Mick's own marriage was falling apart around that time I suspect Stevie was consoling him by saying "I think that I should hold your hand," to which Mick would reply "I'm hurting, Darling, do you understand?" You know how Stevie flip-flops between the first and third voice without any warning!

David

07-06-2006, 03:36 PM

If memory serves, I believe Watchdevil first surfaced on the FM "Almanac" bootleg LP that was released in either 1979 or 1980.Yeah that's where it first appeared. I still have my Almanac vinyl (two records) that I bought back then at Rockaway Records in Glendale. The vinyl is mostly inaudible by now because it was such cheap vinyl.
I would suspect that it is a "Rumours" era boot since to my ears the bass sounds like John McVie and her voice has that "Dreams"-like raspy quality to it.I think the recording on Almanac is no earlier than 1978. There's a yamaha cp-30 on it, & those weren't manufactured until around '78 (although one of the music magazines had an ad for it in late '77). Chris bought one & used it at the Village Recorder to play on Tusk tracks. Stevie is probably playing Christine's cp-30 on this demo (given the nature & design of the instrument, it's unlikely stevie or anyone else in her circle would have owned one--christine needed a heavy-duty combo instrument to tour with).

David

07-06-2006, 03:38 PM

As the drummer in the band, Mick is literally the keeper of the time. Duh!
Excellent, hejira! I think the song has something to do with Mick, too.

SuzeQuze

07-06-2006, 03:45 PM

It should be noted, though, that the "perfect opportunity to learn about kings, queens, princes and princesses" comment was made by the author of the article, not by Stevie.

I've never had any major problems with this article... it's more sad and depressing than shocking or inflammatory. One thing is certain, Stevie is undoubtably human, and she's as vulnerable to life's ups and downs as the rest of us. This article shows her at the lowest point in her life, and, as a document to that time period, it makes her ultimate reemergence as a healthy, vibrant, clear-headed woman all the more impressive.

Yes, and the first I saw of this was her performance at MixFest where she was just on fire. I never thought I'd see that Stevie again and boy was I ever grateful. I still am!

ELIUD

07-06-2006, 03:50 PM

Oh it is a bit scandalous, this article, but I did love reading through it and for the first time actually. The only thing that bothered me, in fact was the bitchyness of the interviewer. Those English and their possessiveness of their precous Samantha Fox. **** em.

David

07-06-2006, 04:03 PM

It should be noted, though, that the "perfect opportunity to learn about kings, queens, princes and princesses" comment was made by the author of the article, not by Stevie.Mea culpa!
I've never had any major problems with this article... it's more sad and depressing than shocking or inflammatory. One thing is certain, Stevie is undoubtably human, and she's as vulnerable to life's ups and downs as the rest of us. This article shows her at the lowest point in her life, and, as a document to that time period, it makes her ultimate reemergence as a healthy, vibrant, clear-headed woman all the more impressive.I don't think any less of my artists when they don't or can't re-emerge as healthy, vibrant & clear-headed. They might sink deeper & deeper into the mire of obsession, confusion, self-torture, drug addiction, illness & insanity. I love reading about Beethoven, Hölderlin, Hugo Wolf, Tchaikovsky, Van Gogh, Hoffmann, Fitzgerald, Falconetti, Twain, Griffith, Pabst, Pavese, Kafka, Robert Lowell, William James, Camus, Herzog, Ingmar Bergman, Conrad, Poe, Hawthorne, Lincoln, Romain Gary, Jean Seberg, Abbie Hoffman, Randall Jarrell, Primo Levi, & on & on. I also have always loved reading about Stevie's (& Peter's & Danny's & Lindsey's & John's) psychical battles, their agones.

carrie721

07-06-2006, 04:10 PM

Mea culpa!
I don't think any less of my artists when they don't or can't re-emerge as healthy, vibrant & clear-headed. They might sink deeper & deeper into the mire of obsession, confusion, self-torture, drug addiction, illness & insanity. I love reading about Beethoven, Hölderlin, Hugo Wolf, Tchaikovsky, Van Gogh, Hoffmann, Fitzgerald, Falconetti, Twain, Griffith, Pabst, Pavese, Kafka, Robert Lowell, William James, Camus, Herzog, Ingmar Bergman, Conrad, Poe, Hawthorne, Lincoln, Romain Gary, Jean Seberg, Abbie Hoffman, Randall Jarrell, Primo Levi, & on & on. I also have always loved reading about Stevie's (& Peter's & Danny's & Lindsey's & John's) psychical battles, their agones.

I'm fascinated also by people's descent into madness (especially if they have some sort of artistic talent to hang it on), but I also find it really inspiring and reaffirming when people pull themselves out of it.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 04:33 PM

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:11 PM

Oh, she said that in most of the 89-93 articles, that's nothing new. It wasn't until around the Dance that suddenly she started saying that she never regretted making the decisions she made. Me thinks she was having a lot of regrets in the early 90's.
It was around The Dance..she changed her tune...:nod:

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:23 PM

Great article, BlackWidow! Thanks for posting it. In this along with the 1991 BBC radio interview, you really hear a woman on the skids. It's like Fitzgerald--like "The Crackup"--or one of those blubbery, mawkish Susan Hayward movies.
Had anyone else I know been in her state, he'd have been in bed in privacy. It's unfortunate that Stevie felt compelled to continue marketing & careering all through this ghastly emotional jam.
Now to me what's shocking is how Vox editors would let slip this solecism without correcting it.
That's a rare day, given the smog.
Or gee Stevie maybe you're just an Anglophile like millions of other people.
There's a perfect example of Stevie's "intelligence": joining a rock band in Southern CA provides a "perfect opportunity" to learn about the succession of the Stuarts or the vagaries of the House of Hanover (as if Mick Fleetwood has any more idea of it than Stevie did).
I still haven't seen a video of that legendary botchup! Anyone have it for YouTube?
He could have taught swimming at the camp for kids or been a lifeguard; he could have taught music/guitar/bass; he could have taken part in his dad's business. There are dozens of things he could have done for a decent income.
whoa--is that accurate? that seems inflated by at least twice. I thought BD was about 4 million in worldwide sales.
This is an excellent read, this interview. Thanks again for posting it, Widow.

Doesn't anybody remember two stays in Betty Ford? One around the early part of the '86 year & another in very late '86? I think the L.A. Times cryptically reported the first one & then made the 2nd one much more public. But I never hear fans talk about it.
True.
I believe there were 2 stays at Betty Ford. The first time she left Rehab early as reported by The L.A. Times saying "..it's a worthless thing" - lines she echoed in Welcome To The Room Sara. Her friends/family and Management Company (Frontline) did an intervention on her that did not go well. In Wecome..she says "Frontline baby, well you held her prisoner and after all these years..well as well as you knew her..when you hang up that phone..well you cease to exist!" I read the first thing she did when she left Betty Ford was fire Frontline Mgt. for sponsoring her Intervention.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:27 PM

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:29 PM

her fans respond deeply to that.
That's in "Gypsy" too! :thumbsup:
Stevie is also a Joni fan..I always thought that was a nod to Joni..or she stole it...lol.;)

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:35 PM

Dont worry. I've never seen it before and I found it informing. I dont think you should have to apologize. I find it rather rude for people to jump down someone's throat that meant no malice.
Love Ya David!:xoxo: :D

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 05:38 PM

Yeah that's where it first appeared. I still have my Almanac vinyl (two records) that I bought back then at Rockaway Records in Glendale. The vinyl is mostly inaudible by now because it was such cheap vinyl.
I think the recording on Almanac is no earlier than 1978. There's a yamaha cp-30 on it, & those weren't manufactured until around '78 (although one of the music magazines had an ad for it in late '77). Chris bought one & used it at the Village Recorder to play on Tusk tracks. Stevie is probably playing Christine's cp-30 on this demo (given the nature & design of the instrument, it's unlikely stevie or anyone else in her circle would have owned one--christine needed a heavy-duty combo instrument to tour with).
My friends David & Wayne (brothers)..own Rockaway Records in Glendale!!!
Small world huh? Where in L.A. are you? I'm in Studio City.....

vermicious knid

07-06-2006, 06:32 PM

This has been one of the most informative threads I have ever read.

As for the Vox article, are we believing that Stevie told the interviewer that Tom Petty was a former lover? It would surprise me since it is admitting being with a married man. I might believe she would do it, but I have a hard time believing she would put it out in the world for Jane Petty to know.

I think this Encino house is the one in that video of Stevie's house for sale. I have it saved on my computer, and it was fun to pause it and find all the things the writer described.

I want to put the microscope on this portion:
For four lovers, a crucial test came when she became pregnant and opted for terminations. "It's always been a tragedy. But they understood." But they didn't really. "Eventually their hearts couldn't take it, they couldn't understand quite enough, how deeply embedded in this I was. And so it eventually hurt them too much and they had to leave, or face devastation on their own."
I am thinking the writer is being disingenuous here because it doesn't sound to me like she is talking about her abortions.

gldstwmn

07-06-2006, 06:33 PM

What was the deal with Mick and Samantha Fox?

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 06:38 PM

What was the deal with Mick and Samantha Fox?
I WANNA KNOW TOO....:lol:

DashingDan

07-06-2006, 06:38 PM

What was the deal with Mick and Samantha Fox?

They hosted "The Brits" (the UK equal to The American Music Awards, and, to a lesser extent The Grammys) and they were horrible at it. Mick was embarrassing because he didn't know who anyone was...and he was acting like mick.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 06:39 PM

They hosted "The Brits" (the UK equal to The American Music Awards, and, to a lesser extent The Grammys) and they were horrible at it. Mick was embarrassing because he didn't know who anyone was...and he was acting like mick.
hmmm.....i see....:)

SapphireSister

07-06-2006, 07:02 PM

True.
I believe there were 2 stays at Betty Ford. the first time she left Rehab saying "..it's a worthless thing" - lines she echoed in Welcome To The Room Sara. Her friends/family and Management Company (Frontline) did an intervention on her that did not go well. In Wecome..she says "Frontline baby, well you held her prisoner and after all these years..well as well as you knew her..when you hang up that phone..well you cease to exist!" I read the first thing she did when she left Betty Ford was fire Frontline Mgt. for sponsoring her Intervention.
Really? That's my first time hearing of this. I always thought Stevie went to Betty Ford once and only once and on her own recognizance. My perception from what she's said in interviews is that she checked herself in and just knew when enough was enough. Then again I've learned that you can't always take Stevie's word as law. I never thought though there was any kind of formal intervention, she sure hasn't said anything about it to my knowledge.

Stevie: I went to a plastic surgeon who told me, "You know, you're really going to have a lot of problems with your nose if you don't stop doing this." And [that] really scared me. And then I went and did a seven-month tour… and I came home and I went straight to Betty Ford. And nobody had to make me go. I wanted to go as quick as possible.

Serrart

07-06-2006, 07:23 PM

Sometimes, tho...I wish she'd be a bit stronger. She does tend to play the victim in many of her recollections, and that's not a very pleasing trait in La Nicks. You make yourself the victim, Stevie - not other people....you.

In the words and melody of an old, wise Joni Mitchell song..."It all comes down...to you."

Where's again the complaints book about how Stevie talks of her own past? Who took it the last time? When I saw it it was close to the "She never thanks Lindsey enough" one.

Romy

David

07-06-2006, 07:29 PM

Really? That's my first time hearing of this. I always thought Stevie went to Betty Ford once and only once and on her own recognizance. My perception from what she's said in interviews is that she checked herself in and just knew when enough was enough. Then again I've learned that you can't always take Stevie's word as law.The Pop Eye column (usually compiled by staffer Patrick Goldstein) in the L.A. Times followed Stevie's stays in Betty Ford pretty frequently back in 1986. I have long since thrown out those clippings. Maybe someone can do some library work & seek out the appropriate archives.

Johnny Stew

07-06-2006, 08:30 PM

It was around The Dance..she changed her tune...:nod:I don't know that she necessarily "changed her tune." I think that once she was in a better place both mentally and emotionally, she re-evaluated her life and priorities and realized that, as much as she would have loved to have had a child, she was just not willing to give up her career.

Johnny Stew

07-06-2006, 08:32 PM

I don't think any less of my artists when they don't or can't re-emerge as healthy, vibrant & clear-headed.I don't think any less of artists who are unable to successfully battle their demons. But, as someone with a few demons of his own, I find it inspiring when they do.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 09:07 PM

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 09:12 PM

Really? That's my first time hearing of this. I always thought Stevie went to Betty Ford once and only once and on her own recognizance. My perception from what she's said in interviews is that she checked herself in and just knew when enough was enough. Then again I've learned that you can't always take Stevie's word as law. I never thought though there was any kind of formal intervention, she sure hasn't said anything about it to my knowledge.
Yea..I read it in the L.A. Times!
She fired Frontline Management the day she got out.
She was asked what she got out of her stay..(she left early the first time)
Her reply was "It was a worthless thing, really"
In Welcome to the room she sings:
"Well its a worthless thing so take it all the way back home..take it home"
Her Intervention was organized by her managers at Frontline Mgt.

BlackWidow

07-06-2006, 09:26 PM

Really? That's my first time hearing of this. I always thought Stevie went to Betty Ford once and only once and on her own recognizance. My perception from what she's said in interviews is that she checked herself in and just knew when enough was enough. Then again I've learned that you can't always take Stevie's word as law. I never thought though there was any kind of formal intervention, she sure hasn't said anything about it to my knowledge.
She does tend to rewrite her own past....
She did of course ultimately take responsibility for her own health..I think that is what she means.

sparky

07-06-2006, 09:38 PM

I never heard the two rehabs story. How did I never know this ?
Learn something every day. So, the first one was before the RAL tour ? Then she realized they were right and did it on her own ? What is the timeline? Fascinating.
Every time someone digs up this sorry assed article, there is a ****strom and I find out something new. Awesome. :thumbsup:

Mageboy25

07-07-2006, 04:36 AM

I love this **** too!!!! I never new about the 2 rehabs stays in 86. I thought she went to Betty Ford in early 87????? She was in there with Tammy Wynette, that would be another way to research when they were there.

If Frontline REALLY wanted to make some cash they should of filmed the Intervetion with Stevie and put it on tv and released it on home video :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: !

I would have LOVED to of been there for that! Imagine Stevie in rehab, wouldnt that be a great reality show! I can see Tammy singing instead of D I V O R C E,
"C O C A I N E Stevie is breaking up your nose pretty baddly"!

:laugh:

Dear God im going to hell!

danax6

07-07-2006, 05:37 AM

I am thinking the writer is being disingenuous here because it doesn't sound to me like she is talking about her abortions.Thank you, I agree. It sounds to me like she was talking about something else, relationships most likely and somehow the writer wanted it to make it all more dramatic and heard an abortion bell ring somewhere and included it, especially since Stevie brought up the subject of maybe having a child, or adopting one, for the gazillionth time. I think our first clue that this article is at least somewhat fictional is the fact that the writer brings up her 'former lover Tom Petty' who I seriously doubt she ever had a relationship with, and if so, she would not admit that while Tom Petty was still married. Don't forget the crumbling of the empires.

danax6

07-07-2006, 05:39 AM

I love this **** too!!!! I never new about the 2 rehabs stays in 86. I thought she went to Betty Ford in early 87????? According to Mick's book it was Spring of 1987, according to Stevie it was after the RAL tour in 1986. It's up to you who you think is the most credible source. :p

HejiraNYC

07-07-2006, 09:23 AM

According to Mick's book it was Spring of 1987, according to Stevie it was after the RAL tour in 1986. It's up to you who you think is the most credible source. :p

I really doubt that she was in rehab in early 1987 since "Tango in the Night" was released in the early spring of 1987. And my understanding is that she was pretty much off cocaine when she recorded "Tango." But then I could be wrong...

What I have always found perplexing is that she released a very anti-cocaine song in the spring/summer of 1986, "Battle of the Dragon," which came out right before the notoriously drug-fueled RAL tour. The Dragon is cocaine. In that song she sounds as if she conquered her addiction alone ("...when your friends start asking you why, you just say nothing") and moved on. She reflects on the other rock stars who have succumbed to drugs ("We are adapting to your silence, I can live here without you, but at least I'm learning to live without your songs") and seems almost defiantly triumphant in lines like "I see myself remaining when all of you are gone" and "I can and I will go on." Perhaps this song was written and recorded after the first unsuccessful detox in early 1986 when, full of hubris, she determined that she could conquer the Dragon on her own whenever she felt like it. "Battle of the Dragon" was recorded and released. Then after falling off the wagon big time during the RAL tour, when she realized she could not do this alone, the second stint at rehab occurred in the late summer/early fall of 1986 before entering the "Tango" recording sessions at the last minute. This also helps to explain why Stevie's vocals are pretty much absent on over half of the album.

Sahara

07-07-2006, 10:01 AM

I've read this article before in the context of it having lots of controversy around it and even a certain level of taboo, which I accepted, but which I'm sort of glad isn't quite as evident as I thought it would be.

We do know, however, that she had an abortion for Don Henley's child in the 70's as they have both admitted that.

I didn't know that. :shocked: When was that said?

And did Stevie or her management ever have anything to say about this article? :shrug:

strandinthewind

07-07-2006, 10:06 AM

. . .

I didn't know that. :shocked: When was that said?

And did Stevie or her management ever have anything to say about this article? :shrug:

Off the Record with Mary Turner - December, 1994

“Don Henley blew it on the fact that I had an abortion. He told a big magazine [Vanity Fair] that. I guess I could tell my story about me and Don cause Don accidentally let the cat out of the bag about that so there are things that I could write about but a lot of things that I couldn’t. See I would have never told that, I would have never told the world that. Ninety-two phone calls from Don and eight hundred apologies later but the fact is that that story it out now but the story behind it isn’t out, what really happened isn’t out, so that’s what everyone has to wait for.”

Sahara

07-07-2006, 10:11 AM

Off the Record with Mary Turner - December, 1994

“Don Henley blew it on the fact that I had an abortion. He told a big magazine [Vanity Fair] that. I guess I could tell my story about me and Don cause Don accidentally let the cat out of the bag about that so there are things that I could write about but a lot of things that I couldn’t. See I would have never told that, I would have never told the world that. Ninety-two phone calls from Don and eight hundred apologies later but the fact is that that story it out now but the story behind it isn’t out, what really happened isn’t out, so that’s what everyone has to wait for.”

Yikes.
Poor Stevie. :distress:

David

07-07-2006, 10:37 AM

What I have always found perplexing is that she released a very anti-cocaine song in the spring/summer of 1986, "Battle of the Dragon," which came out right before the notoriously drug-fueled RAL tour. The Dragon is cocaine. In that song she sounds as if she conquered her addiction alone ("...when your friends start asking you why, you just say nothing") and moved on. She reflects on the other rock stars who have succumbed to drugs ("We are adapting to your silence, I can live here without you, but at least I'm learning to live without your songs") and seems almost defiantly triumphant in lines like "I see myself remaining when all of you are gone" and "I can and I will go on." Perhaps this song was written and recorded after the first unsuccessful detox in early 1986 when, full of hubris, she determined that she could conquer the Dragon on her own whenever she felt like it.An interesting idea, but I heard the song with Tom Petty & Stevie way back in '85.

strandinthewind

07-07-2006, 10:57 AM

An interesting idea, but I heard the song with Tom Petty & Stevie way back in '85.

and there was an interview (live) posted awhile back where she says BOTD is about strong willed people in relationships or something like that - then she sings a little of it.

But, that could be a small part of it as her songs tend to have many topics.

DavidMn

07-07-2006, 12:28 PM

Love Ya David!:xoxo: :DNo problem! anytime.:wavey:

Mageboy25

07-07-2006, 02:37 PM

carrie721

07-07-2006, 02:56 PM

Story behind her abortion? She makes it sound like she had a good reason for this. Stevie please its very basic, you had an abortion bc you were a drug addicted rockstar, and didnt want to give that up for a child.

Or she didn't think it would be fair to bring a child into that kind of lifestyle. You can put any kind of spin on it. I think it's pretty presumptuous to say that the story behind any major decision in anyone's life - especially when it's someone you don't even know - is "simple." Like it or not, none of us know Stevie, and none of us really know why she does anything.

SapphireSister

07-07-2006, 03:01 PM

Story behind her abortion? She makes it sound like she had a good reason for this. Stevie please its very basic, you had an abortion bc you were a drug addicted rockstar, and didnt want to give that up for a child.
Ouch :sorry:! I think there was a hell of a lot more to it than that. A woman's decision to give up a child is not an easy one and you just made it sound like she's a selfish whore. I'm sure there were many other factors contributing to this decision other than the fact that she was a "drug addicted rockstar". Did you ever consider that maybe Don didn't want the child, she wasn't mentally or emotionally ready for a child, or that her lifestyle at the time (apart from the drugs) was not conducive to raising a child, etc. ? I'm sure there are a plethora of other reasons she chose not to have the child that neither you nor I will ever be aware of so I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions and state that that was simply all there was to it.

Tango

07-07-2006, 03:15 PM

Story behind her abortion? She makes it sound like she had a good reason for this. Stevie please its very basic, you had an abortion bc you were a drug addicted rockstar, and didnt want to give that up for a child.

Wow, you're a tough judge. Hopefully the thread won't be locked because of your comments. Isn't it possible that the times Stevie got pregnant she wasn't planning on having sex and wasn't prepared? Apparently the person fathering wasn't prepared either. How can you judge her? There's more than one person involved, but it's sad that you are so tough on solely the woman.

skcin

07-07-2006, 03:21 PM

Here we go..... :(

DashingDan

07-07-2006, 03:30 PM

sparky

07-07-2006, 03:43 PM

Story behind her abortion? She makes it sound like she had a good reason for this. Stevie please its very basic, you had an abortion bc you were a drug addicted rockstar, and didnt want to give that up for a child.

Dude, congrats on turning the ritter fan on the ****storm !

Of course that's a great reason on paper. I too doubt it was so simple. You know who we're talking about. I am sure there were recriminations, arguments, doors slammed, ultimatums, and all the kinds of mishigaz that would come in such a situation. My guess is that it is a humdinger of a story and that no one will ever hear the truth about it.

Isn't it possible that the times Stevie got pregnant she wasn't planning on having sex and wasn't prepared? Apparently the person fathering wasn't prepared either.

WTF ? :laugh: Here's a concept : if the car hasn't got seat belts, don't get in ! Sex isn't something that just happens, like a gust of wind. It's actually a decision. And adults are responsible for their actions. I know nothing about the specific situation at issue in the thread, but that concept was just too ridiculous to pass without comment.

Tango

07-07-2006, 04:06 PM

SapphireSister

07-07-2006, 04:09 PM

Here we go..... :(
At least I was diplomatic...I could have turned into a raving bitch and ripped him a new one :nod: :p

SapphireSister

07-07-2006, 04:17 PM

WTF ? :laugh: Here's a concept : if the car hasn't got seat belts, don't get in ! Sex isn't something that just happens, like a gust of wind. It's actually a decision. And adults are responsible for their actions. I know nothing about the specific situation at issue in the thread, but that concept was just too ridiculous to pass without comment.
Dude, I love you for that :xoxo: Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing. What a peculiar comment that was. Or better yet, maybe she forgot to get her birth control pills refilled :rolleyes:.

danax6

07-07-2006, 04:30 PM

WTF ? :laugh: Here's a concept : if the car hasn't got seat belts, don't get in ! Sex isn't something that just happens, like a gust of wind. It's actually a decision. And adults are responsible for their actions. I know nothing about the specific situation at issue in the thread, but that concept was just too ridiculous to pass without comment.Hey, it was the 70's. :shrug:

Anyway, that Mary Turner interview still isn't proving anything to me. She ain't denying anything, but she ain't confirming anything either. She focuses on Don and then finishes by saying it wasn't the true story. Until I hear the true story, I am not buying anything that Don or whoever the hell else says.

gypsysoul

07-07-2006, 04:47 PM

Am I the only one who thinks this is a badly written, badly researched, sensationalist tabloid style article that shouldn't be taken particularly seriously?

Stevie is all over the place in it; either because she was pretty much out of it in which case we shouldn't take her comments as gospel.
Or because her quotes have been deliberately tossed around to create the scandalous story the writer wanted to put out, in which case, ditto.

For example I would take all the stuff about Mick with a pinch of salt.
This 'loving and loyal friend' was the man who dumped Stevie for her best friend and kissed and told on her in his nasty little book.

This man who looked the 'part of an English king' also dressed in cheerleader outfits and wedding dresses. Please:laugh:

And yes, being British I had the misfortune to see him on the Brit awards. It's regularly voted as one of the top 5 most awful moments in tv history in polls. Trust me, 'Powerful presence' are not the first words that come to mind!

And i really doubt that Mick was a unilateral decision maker in the band whose 'wisdom' the others accepted easily.

Also I think this interview should be put in its context. Stevie was clearly unhappy at this time and her life was a mess.
It's interesting that Lindsey is conspicuous by his absence (apart from a brief mention) in this interview while she 'bigs up' Mick.

Her other interviews around this time veer between the very sad and the bitter. Lindsey was a big feature of this sadness and bitterness. He at this time was largely ignoring Stevie and apparently doing well without her for the first time in many years.
I'd suggest she felt his loss keenly for many different reasons. 1987 -mid 90's were her worst period, coincidentally the years she didn't have the security blanket of Lindsey both professionally and personally.

As for the abortions. Henley told Vanity Fair he 'believes' Stevie's abortion was of his child.
Assuming she had an abortion, either it was his child or it wasn't.
Maybe THAT is the story behind it rather than how or why the abortion came about.

And I don't believe I've ever seen anything else that suggests Bella Donna sold anywhere near 10 million copies.

wheart

07-07-2006, 04:52 PM

I meant no malice..I had never seen this article.:angel:

Thanks for posting this. I had never read it and found it to be very interesting. I don't really understand why the posting of this article would result in such a stink. Why? Did Stevie not sit down with this journalist and share these things about herself and her life? It's where she was at the time...

mikeschmike

07-07-2006, 04:54 PM

For what it's worth, here is my opinion. This article is probably so twisted and misconstrued from what actually happened, and for a multitude of reasons.

For one thing, the story usually changes depending on Stevie's state at the time. Notice the bitterness of the klonopin era interviews, and how that compares to the flakiness of the post Dance interviews. The context changes all of the time, so who really knows what happened? Hell, there are ten different explanations as to the meaning of EO17 so when it comes to something as personal as romance and/or pregnancy I doubt the reader is going to get a clear picture from La Nicks.

Second, it's pretty obvious that the interviewer was trying to get some juicy bits out of this interview, whether they be 100% accurate or not. It looks like a lot was taken out of context and some blanks were filled in by the author. It sells magazines, sure. Does it portray the truth? Probably not.

jannieC

07-07-2006, 06:41 PM

Surprisingly, I've never seen this article either. So thanks for posting it.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous for anyone to speculate why another person has had an abortion. Its a very personal decision and is no one else's business. Personally, I think that journalist made things sound the way s/he wanted. Grain of salt, I say.

sparky

07-07-2006, 07:16 PM

Dude, I love you for that :xoxo: Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing. What a peculiar comment that was. Or better yet, maybe she forgot to get her birth control pills refilled :rolleyes:.

It made me think of a story I heard, or read somewhere. I cannot remember if a friend of mine said this or I read it in a book. A gay guy mentions sex with women and says, "I didn't really mean to, but I had sex with a girl once. It was kind of an accident." The listener responds, "What ? So you were just walking down the street and you fell into a vagina ?"

Hey, it was the 70's.

A time period in which I believe sperm plus egg meant pregnant ?:shrug:

BlackWidow

07-07-2006, 07:33 PM

I really doubt that she was in rehab in early 1987 since "Tango in the Night" was released in the early spring of 1987. And my understanding is that she was pretty much off cocaine when she recorded "Tango." But then I could be wrong...

What I have always found perplexing is that she released a very anti-cocaine song in the spring/summer of 1986, "Battle of the Dragon," which came out right before the notoriously drug-fueled RAL tour. The Dragon is cocaine. In that song she sounds as if she conquered her addiction alone ("...when your friends start asking you why, you just say nothing") and moved on. She reflects on the other rock stars who have succumbed to drugs ("We are adapting to your silence, I can live here without you, but at least I'm learning to live without your songs") and seems almost defiantly triumphant in lines like "I see myself remaining when all of you are gone" and "I can and I will go on." Perhaps this song was written and recorded after the first unsuccessful detox in early 1986 when, full of hubris, she determined that she could conquer the Dragon on her own whenever she felt like it. "Battle of the Dragon" was recorded and released. Then after falling off the wagon big time during the RAL tour, when she realized she could not do this alone, the second stint at rehab occurred in the late summer/early fall of 1986 before entering the "Tango" recording sessions at the last minute. This also helps to explain why Stevie's vocals are pretty much absent on over half of the album.
I remember reading that Stevie was upset she was left off Tango for the most part. She was quoted as saying to Lindsey.."..and what am I supposed to say to Rolling Stone when they ask me why I am not on this record?" Of course she was in Rehab. Her stuff was recorded last. I think her was angry at her for not being there. He did not include her backing vocals on any of the tracks she laid out except Mystified and Little Lies.

BlackWidow

07-07-2006, 07:37 PM

Here we go..... :(
Leave it to Mageboy to stir the pot...:rolleyes:

danax6

07-07-2006, 07:38 PM

A time period in which I believe sperm plus egg meant pregnant ?:shrug:Ofcourse, but also a time when people were less...careful. The general consensus was still that casual sex was okay, blown over from the 60's hippie movement. The beginning of the 80's basically killed that.

I'm just saying, who the hell knows what happened.

BlackWidow

07-07-2006, 07:40 PM

Dude, congrats on turning the ritter fan on the ****storm !

Of course that's a great reason on paper. I too doubt it was so simple. You know who we're talking about. I am sure there were recriminations, arguments, doors slammed, ultimatums, and all the kinds of mishigaz that would come in such a situation. My guess is that it is a humdinger of a story and that no one will ever hear the truth about it.

WTF ? :laugh: Here's a concept : if the car hasn't got seat belts, don't get in ! Sex isn't something that just happens, like a gust of wind. It's actually a decision. And adults are responsible for their actions. I know nothing about the specific situation at issue in the thread, but that concept was just too ridiculous to pass without comment.
ok..that was funny....:nod: :D

BlackWidow

07-07-2006, 07:46 PM

It made me think of a story I heard, or read somewhere. I cannot remember if a friend of mine said this or I read it in a book. A gay guy mentions sex with women and says, "I didn't really mean to, but I had sex with a girl once. It was kind of an accident." The listener responds, "What ? So you were just walking down the street and you fell into a vagina ?"

A time period in which I believe sperm plus egg meant pregnant ?:shrug:
Well:D hey "you know"..it was the 70's..lol.

Tango

07-07-2006, 07:57 PM

With your analogy, Sparky: Car=Stevie. Seatbelts=birthcontrol. Driver=accountable. There's a concept.

Vehicle- by Jim Peterik

Hey well, I'm a friendly stranger in a black Sedan
Won't you hop inside my car?
I got pictures, got candy, I'm a lovable man
And I can take you to the nearest star

I'm your vehicle, baby
I'll take you anywhere you wanna go
I'm your vehicle, woman
But I'm not sure that you know
That I love ya (love ya)
I need ya (need ya)
I want ya, got to have you, child
Great God in heaven, you know I love you

:sorry: ;)

sparky

07-07-2006, 08:03 PM

Ofcourse, but also a time when people were less...careful. The general consensus was still that casual sex was okay, blown over from the 60's hippie movement. The beginning of the 80's basically killed that.

Oh yeah, people were less careful. No STD's were fatal. Sex was like fast food, and abortions were all the rage. I still think casual sex is okay, for the record. I just think people need to be held responsible for their actions and the consequences of them, regardless of the era. You can't really hold people responsible for getting HIV when they didn't know it existed. But pregnancy, Lord, I could soap box that one for pages and pages.

I'm just saying, who the hell knows what happened.

Oh, we'll never know. And the parties involved are hardly to be taken at face value when recollecting the past.

SapphireSister

07-07-2006, 09:00 PM

I remember reading that Stevie was upset she was left off Tango for the most part. She was quoted as saying to Lindsey.."..and what am I supposed to say to Rolling Stone when they ask me why I am not on this record?" Of course she was in Rehab. Her stuff was recorded last. I think her was angry at her for not being there. He did not include her backing vocals on any of the tracks she laid out except Mystified and Little Lies.
I'm still not sold on the idea she had an initial stint at Betty Ford via intervention. What you've said above is totally true but would still support that she went to rehab herself willingly after the RAL tour. I would really love to see the LA times article that states her management forced her to enter rehab and she left only to return on her own will. I think I'm especially fascinated with this idea since Stevie herself has done such a good job of hiding it (if it's true). Like myself and others have said this is the first we've heard there was any kind of intervention where she entered rehab and left early. She's always been so clear about the story - "I went to the doctor, he told me I could die if I snorted another line, I spent the RAL tour coked out and went to rehab for the first time willingly the day the tour ended". Funny she left out the part about being forced to go there before and walking out and firing her mgmt. God only knows there is so much to this woman's life we are totally in the dark about (as it should be) but it's always interesting to learn new things.

SapphireSister

07-07-2006, 09:11 PM

So many things could be taken out of context in this article, it's mind blowing! The writer was obviously out for shock value and used whatever means necessary to twist her words and insert his own biases whenever possible. He did a phenomenal job of making her look like a real sob story. I feel bad for her after reading this article not only because it was obviously a low point in her life but for the simple fact that someone like this in the media used her own words against her in a sense to make her look completely pitiful. How irresponsible (but it sure as hell made for a great read)! Oh well being a celeb she's fair game, it comes with the territory. I would just really love to see the official transcript of the interview and compare it to this, I bet we'd see something really interesting.

StreetAngel86

07-07-2006, 11:37 PM

OMG the was depressing ****

if Stevie EVER says again she wasn't depressed and has never been depressed especially post 87 she is a LIAR

i dont think the article is that bad tho
is is because she was truthful (we assume?)
i think that's all the more reason why this is a good article.........subject matter aside
i dont see why people make such a big deal about it
maybe when it first came out.
but i just think it's sad and that interviewer GOT TO TOUR HER HOUSE

DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE :D

StreetAngel86

07-08-2006, 12:23 AM

It was around The Dance..she changed her tune...:nod:

gee, i wonder who was responsible for THAT change in attitude :laugh:

destiny rules yeah? :p

StreetAngel86

07-08-2006, 12:31 AM

According to Mick's book it was Spring of 1987, according to Stevie it was after the RAL tour in 1986. It's up to you who you think is the most credible source. :p

I thought Stevie was in Rehab November 86?
i think i would rather believe Stevie

but OT for a second.......does anyone know when she went in 92/93? that is the only big hole in my timeline that i am interested in :wavey:

Mageboy25

07-08-2006, 02:41 AM

Even though im against abortion for the most part, I believe a woman has a right to choose, and no one can tell you what to do with your body. Anywho Stevie was coked up and drunk everyday probably and didnt even know she was pregnant. So maybe the abortion saddly enough was the best thing to do maybe, instead of bringing in a drug addicted baby with mental and birth defects into the world.

:(

Back to Rehab lol, yeah I too would love to see the old LA Times articles.

Sahara

07-08-2006, 04:13 AM

1987 -mid 90's were her worst period, coincidentally the years she didn't have the security blanket of Lindsey both professionally and personally.

Ooh. Interesting. I'd never even thought of it like that before.

Kelly

07-08-2006, 08:30 AM

David

07-08-2006, 11:11 AM

So many things could be taken out of context in this article, it's mind blowing! The writer was obviously out for shock value and used whatever means necessary to twist her words and insert his own biases whenever possible. He did a phenomenal job of making her look like a real sob story. I feel bad for her after reading this article not only because it was obviously a low point in her life but for the simple fact that someone like this in the media used her own words against her in a sense to make her look completely pitiful. How irresponsible (but it sure as hell made for a great read)! Did you ever hear the 1991 BBC radio interview with Nicky Horne? Stevie sounds exactly the same on tape as she does here in print.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 11:14 AM

I'm still not sold on the idea she had an initial stint at Betty Ford via intervention. What you've said above is totally true but would still support that she went to rehab herself willingly after the RAL tour. I would really love to see the LA times article that states her management forced her to enter rehab and she left only to return on her own will. I think I'm especially fascinated with this idea since Stevie herself has done such a good job of hiding it (if it's true). Like myself and others have said this is the first we've heard there was any kind of intervention where she entered rehab and left early. She's always been so clear about the story - "I went to the doctor, he told me I could die if I snorted another line, I spent the RAL tour coked out and went to rehab for the first time willingly the day the tour ended". Funny she left out the part about being forced to go there before and walking out and firing her mgmt. God only knows there is so much to this woman's life we are totally in the dark about (as it should be) but it's always interesting to learn new things.
Since the source was the L.A. Times - I trust it.

David

07-08-2006, 11:14 AM

Back to Rehab lol, yeah I too would love to see the old LA Times articles.It wasn't exactly an article I remember. It was the Pop Eye feature of the L.A. Times Calendar section--a column of briefs (short items) compiled by Patrick Goldstein. Kinda like the Random Notes section in Rolling Stone.

I got a lot of great Stevie & FM tidbits of info from that feature over the years, including some tipoffs about upcoming guest spots at other people's concerts (for example, the whole "Madame X" thing for the Bob Welch band reunion in November 1981).

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 11:16 AM

Did you ever hear the 1991 BBC radio interview with Nicky Horne? Stevie sounds exactly the same on tape as she does here in print.
She seems to be more revealing in other countries..She was more forthcoming in all her recent New Zealand Interviews too.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 11:18 AM

It wasn't exactly an article I remember. It was the Pop Eye feature of the L.A. Times Calendar section--a column of briefs (short items) compiled by Patrick Goldstein. Kinda like the Random Notes section in Rolling Stone.

I got a lot of great Stevie & FM tidbits of info from that feature over the years, including some tipoffs about upcoming guest spots at other people's concerts (for example, the whole "Madame X" thing for the Bob Welch band reunion in November 1981).
Yep..Spot On David!!! So you saw it too???

David

07-08-2006, 11:23 AM

Yep..Spot On David!!! So you saw it too???
Oh I used to read the Calendar section avidly for news on Fleetwood Mac in those days. I scoped it out but good, not only in the big Sunday section but throughout the week, as well. I was the best-informed fan that damn band ever had back then! :lol:

You had to read the papers thoroughly in those pre-Internet days. That's how we found out to get our tickets as soon as possible for concerts & big events like Peace Sunday. They didn't talk about Peace Sunday on the radio, & you would never have known that Stevie Nicks was going to do a set for a big day-long thing like Peace Sunday unless you read the Calendar section. It was invaluable. Rolling Stone was good, too, but the fact that it was published several months after the topical news was a drawback, obviously.

Pop Eye in the Times also reported that Stevie Nicks was going to start a U.S. tour in 1984 with Julian Lennon ("Too Late for Goodbyes" was a current hit) opening. It was going to kick off with a big festival at Anaheim Stadium--David Bowie, Stevie Nicks, & others. Man, I was geared up for that sucka. I was so looking forward to it.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 11:28 AM

Oh I used to read the Calendar section avidly for news on Fleetwood Mac in those days. I scoped it out but good, not only in the big Sunday section but throughout the week, as well. I was the best-informed fan that damn band ever had back then! :lol:

You had to read the papers thoroughly in those pre-Internet days. That's how we found out to get our tickets as soon as possible for concerts & big events like Peace Sunday. They didn't talk about Peace Sunday on the radio, & you would never have known that Stevie Nicks was going to do a set for a big day-long thing like Peace Sunday unless you read the Calendar section. It was invaluable. Rolling Stone was good, too, but the fact that it was published several months after the topical news was a drawback, obviously.

Pop Eye in the Times also reported that Stevie Nicks was going to start a U.S. tour in 1984 with Julian Lennon ("Too Late for Goodbyes" was a current hit) opening. It was going to kick off with a big festival at Anaheim Stadium--David Bowie, Stevie Nicks, & others. Man, I was geared up for that sucka. I was so looking forward to it.
So true..Where in L.A. are you?

David

07-08-2006, 11:32 AM

So true..Where in L.A. are you?
At that time, I lived in Arcadia. I'm in OC now.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 11:35 AM

At that time, I lived in Arcadia. I'm in OC now.
Aww..
I'm in Studio City. My friends own Rockaway Records in Glendale...:p

David

07-08-2006, 12:32 PM

Aww..
I'm in Studio City. My friends own Rockaway Records in Glendale...:p
Rockaway was my joint. I bought so much there over the years. I bought a baseball Tusk Tour jacket with "Sharon" sewn on the front. Back then, I thought it was Sharon Weisz, the band's former publicist. But maybe it was Sharon Celani's...I dunno. I wore it up to fleetwood's bay area shows on the mirage tour. It was small because it was a woman's but it was cool. Rockaway used to have a great collection of audio vinyl bootlegs & radio interviews, too. Then I switched over to the Old Hippie in Goldmine.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 01:05 PM

Rockaway was my joint. I bought so much there over the years. I bought a baseball Tusk Tour jacket with "Sharon" sewn on the front. Back then, I thought it was Sharon Weisz, the band's former publicist. But maybe it was Sharon Celani's...I dunno. I wore it up to fleetwood's bay area shows on the mirage tour. It was small because it was a woman's but it was cool. Rockaway used to have a great collection of audio vinyl bootlegs & radio interviews, too. Then I switched over to the Old Hippie in Goldmine.
That is so cool....:thumbsup:

DavidMn

07-08-2006, 01:16 PM

sparky

07-08-2006, 02:14 PM

Aww..
I'm in Studio City. My friends own Rockaway Records in Glendale...:p

In high school, I used to mail order stuff from Rockaway all the time. Radio concerts, Innerview, promo stuff. I pored through their ads, and also through the entire Goldmine. I remember begging my mom to give them her credit card number, and buying money orders at Safeway to send to people all over the country for stuff.:lol:

When I first moved to LA and drove by Rockaway by accident, I almost wrecked my truck. Now I live about 10 minutes away from them.

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 02:16 PM

Did you ever hear the 1991 BBC radio interview with Nicky Horne? Stevie sounds exactly the same on tape as she does here in print.
Nope, I haven't heard it but I would love to! Do you have it? Anyway I do believe she was extremely depressed at the time but I think the writer put an even more negative spin on it and added insult to injury so to speak. There's no doubt in my mind she was at a low point.

David

07-08-2006, 02:24 PM

Nope, I haven't heard it but I would love to! Do you have it?
I will look for it & try to get it posted here. It's like a Douglas Sirk movie: high Bavarian melodrama, sauerbraten with treacle. It's the pinnacle of the Stevie-in-a-miasma style.

If you're gonna be a rock star, you may as well go all the way. and she did!

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 03:06 PM

In high school, I used to mail order stuff from Rockaway all the time. Radio concerts, Innerview, promo stuff. I pored through their ads, and also through the entire Goldmine. I remember begging my mom to give them her credit card number, and buying money orders at Safeway to send to people all over the country for stuff.:lol:

When I first moved to LA and drove by Rockaway by accident, I almost wrecked my truck. Now I live about 10 minutes away from them.
Cool.
I used to work in a Restraunt on Glendale Blvd-Osteria Nonni..do you know it?
I met the owners at that time..they are great guys! I don't know Goldmine...
Where is it?

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 03:09 PM

SpyNote

07-08-2006, 03:31 PM

whoa--is that accurate? that seems inflated by at least twice. I thought BD was about 4 million in worldwide sales.

5x platinum in the US, as of Oct-04. I'd imagine cumulative sales are around 7-8 million. Looks like the writer rounded up quite a bit.

THINKABOUTIT

07-08-2006, 04:46 PM

Black Widow and David ;) .....I'm in Burbank...and my fellow Stevie freaks are here and there in l.a. too :thumbsup: .....I used to live in Studio City!! :woohoo:

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 05:03 PM

I will look for it & try to get it posted here. It's like a Douglas Sirk movie: high Bavarian melodrama, sauerbraten with treacle. It's the pinnacle of the Stevie-in-a-miasma style.
I would be eternally grateful! I don't know why it makes that much of a difference to me if it happened or not but I'm just very curious about this whole alleged intervention. Not so much about whether it happened or not but the fact that she's done such a great job of hiding it all these years by neglecting to mention that part in the numerous interviews about her stint at Betty Ford.

If you're gonna be a rock star, you may as well go all the way. and she did!
"Here I am dramatic" :nod:, no kidding Steph!

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 05:04 PM

5x platinum in the US, as of Oct-04. I'd imagine cumulative sales are around 7-8 million. Looks like the writer rounded up quite a bit.
The whole article is embellished IMO.

David

07-08-2006, 05:09 PM

I would be eternally grateful! I don't know why it makes that much of a difference to me if it happened or not but I'm just very curious about this whole alleged intervention.intervention? oh, no, wait a minute. I don't know anything about this intervention--other than what some of the articles have reported the past few years. I don't think stevie mentions an intervention in the nicky horne interview. She talks about robin, about kim, about her marriage, about mick being a prick (it even rhymes!) & about how john stewart was the absolute most important, most romantic love of her long life.

& lemme tell ya, that gal can sing!! :thumbsup:

David

07-08-2006, 05:10 PM

Black Widow and David ;) .....I'm in Burbank...and my fellow Stevie freaks are here and there in l.a. too :thumbsup: .....I used to live in Studio City!! :woohoo:Welcome to burbank!! they have an airport, plus johnny carson .... or is he dead?

burbank always reminded me of richard burbage, the elizabethan stage actor. or was he a victorian actor?

sparky

07-08-2006, 05:16 PM

Cool.
I used to work in a Restraunt on Glendale Blvd-Osteria Nonni..do you know it?
I met the owners at that time..they are great guys! I don't know Goldmine...
Where is it?

I love that restaurant, and have eaten there many times !

Goldmine is a record collector magazine ! If you were talking about Rockaway, it is on the other arm of Glendale Blvd. Say, if you go down past
Nonni towards Silverlake, over the bridge onto Hyperion, take a left onto Rowena...Rowena turns into Glendale at the Ralph's intersection. Rockaway is on the right side. Just across from the Red Lion - an awesome German beer joint.

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 05:23 PM

intervention? oh, no, wait a minute. I don't know anything about this intervention--other than what some of the articles have reported the past few years. I don't think stevie mentions an intervention in the nicky horne interview. She talks about robin, about kim, about her marriage, about mick being a prick (it even rhymes!) & about how john stewart was the absolute most important, most romantic love of her long life.

& lemme tell ya, that gal can sing!! :thumbsup:
Ok now I'm confused, I thought BlackWidow stated there was an article in the LA times that supported the rumor that their was an intervention staged by Stevie's management and she went to Betty Ford and then left before returning again after the RAL tour. Do you know anything about this alleged intervention where Stevie left rehab?

And who is John Stewart? I only know of the comic and surely he's not the love of her life.

gldstwmn

07-08-2006, 05:42 PM

And who is John Stewart? I only know of the comic and surely he's not the love of her life.

He was in the Kingston Trio and recorded Gold with Stevie singing backup.

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 05:51 PM

He was in the Kingston Trio and recorded Gold with Stevie singing backup.
Oh duh I just had a huge brain fart, Gold from the Enchanted box set, of course I know it. And yuck! I never thought that song should have been included. Wow, they were lovers? They just keep coming out of the wood work, I keep hearing about all these men who were supposedly her lovers and the list keeps growing and growing. John Stewart is definitely a new one for me.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 05:54 PM

intervention? oh, no, wait a minute. I don't know anything about this intervention--other than what some of the articles have reported the past few years. I don't think stevie mentions an intervention in the nicky horne interview. She talks about robin, about kim, about her marriage, about mick being a prick (it even rhymes!) & about how john stewart was the absolute most important, most romantic love of her long life.

& lemme tell ya, that gal can sing!! :thumbsup:
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!
John Stewart????:shrug:
I know Lindsey produced Gold..but they were still a couple then..he & Stevie.
When did she have time to be with John Stewart????

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 05:56 PM

Black Widow and David ;) .....I'm in Burbank...and my fellow Stevie freaks are here and there in l.a. too :thumbsup: .....I used to live in Studio City!! :woohoo:
We are neighbors baby!!!:thumbsup:

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 06:06 PM

I would be eternally grateful! I don't know why it makes that much of a difference to me if it happened or not but I'm just very curious about this whole alleged intervention. Not so much about whether it happened or not but the fact that she's done such a great job of hiding it all these years by neglecting to mention that part in the numerous interviews about her stint at Betty Ford.

"Here I am dramatic" :nod:, no kidding Steph!
Why is an Intervention hard to believe? Even Paul Fishkin on her Behind The Music, said she had "near overdoses on the road" and "having to scrape Stevie off the floor"..of course her Mnt Co. had a vested interest in her getting better. An Intervention is a supportive enviornment where all parties concerned stand up and say why they think you need treatment. I did not say she was "committed" LOL! The patient always has the option of going or not going in. Yes..she went ..but at that time was very much in denial and or embarresed I'm sure. I mean her friends/parents/record label/..I'm sure it was intense. Imagine that scene in a Stevie Nicks movie!!! It was recorded that she left her initial stay at Betty Ford 10 days before her scheduled release. When asked by the reporter for comment - she was reported to say.."It was a worthless thing" I know because that is all me and all my friends who saw it too talked about for weeks. End of story. That's what I know.

BlackWidow

07-08-2006, 06:12 PM

I love that restaurant, and have eaten there many times !

Goldmine is a record collector magazine ! If you were talking about Rockaway, it is on the other arm of Glendale Blvd. Say, if you go down past
Nonni towards Silverlake, over the bridge onto Hyperion, take a left onto Rowena...Rowena turns into Glendale at the Ralph's intersection. Rockaway is on the right side. Just across from the Red Lion - an awesome German beer joint.
WOW! Maybe I waited on you..LOL!!
I worked there from 93-98...:nod:

David

07-08-2006, 06:15 PM

Ok now I'm confused, I thought BlackWidow stated there was an article in the LA times that supported the rumor that their was an intervention staged by Stevie's management and she went to Betty Ford and then left before returning again after the RAL tour. Do you know anything about this alleged intervention where Stevie left rehab?I think you can find out stuff about the intervention her friends did in the BLA. I think Timothy White wrote about it in one of his epic literary portraitures of Stevie.

The stuff I saw in the Times just talked about two stays at Betty Ford, even though Mick just mentioned a single stay.

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 06:26 PM

Why is an Intervention hard to believe? Even Paul Fishkin on her Behind The Music, said she had "near overdoses on the road" and "having to scrape Stevie off the floor"..of course her Mnt Co. had a vested interest in her getting better. An Intervention is a supportive enviornment where all parties concerned stand up and say why they think you need treatment. I did not say she was "committed" LOL! The patient always has the option of going or not going in. Yes..she went ..but at that time was very much in denial and or embarresed I'm sure. I mean her friends/parents/record label/..I'm sure it was intense. Imagine that scene in a Stevie Nicks movie!!! It was recorded that she left her initial stay at Betty Ford 10 days before her scheduled release. When asked by the reporter for comment - she was reported to say.."It was a worthless thing" I know because that is all me and all my friends who saw it too talked about for weeks. End of story. That's what I know.
It's not hard to believe but it's just the first time I ever heard of an official intervention and her going to Betty Ford twice. You stated back a few pages that there were 2 stints at Betty Ford Yea..I read it in the L.A. Times! She fired Frontline Management the day she got out.
She was asked what she got out of her stay..(she left early the first time)
Her reply was "It was a worthless thing, really"
I'm sorry if I'm totally dragging this out guys! So maybe she did go initially and leave only to return after the tour. I guess we'll never know for sure and you're right, it must have been very difficult for her and the bottom line is you can't really help someone until they are ready. Interventions are well intentioned but the addict themself is the one who has to make the ultimate decision to get clean.

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 06:29 PM

I think you can find out stuff about the intervention her friends did in the BLA. I think Timothy White wrote about it in one of his epic literary portraitures of Stevie.

The stuff I saw in the Times just talked about two stays at Betty Ford, even though Mick just mentioned a single stay.
So it sounds like there were really 2 stays, thanks for being so helpful David (as usual). It also seems like if there were 2 stays the first one may have been the result of some type of intervention even if the article didn't metion that directly.

****, I'm just going to ask Stevie! I'll submit the question on the nicksfix, think she'll answer it? lol

What's the BLA?

strandinthewind

07-08-2006, 06:30 PM

SapphireSister

07-08-2006, 06:42 PM

Well, there is that part of the recent Annie Leibowitz interview about the Rolling Stone FM in the sack cover photo shoot where AL states that she brough a bunch of coke and was horrified to realize the band had recently been in rehab. Of course, BF was not open then because she was still the drunken First Lady in or around that time period.
I don't know why but that totally just me laugh out loud! I keep forgetting that Betty Ford is called Betty Ford for a reason lol. I'd love to hear some BF drunken stories.

sparky

07-08-2006, 06:58 PM

I don't know why but that totally just me laugh out loud! I keep forgetting that Betty Ford is called Betty Ford for a reason lol. I'd love to hear some BF drunken stories.

She may have never told this story but for some reason the image I have of her is wandering around the white house in a stupor in a robe and slippers, living on vodka and Fruit Loops.:thumbsup:

Someone gave me that image, but I don't know if it was her or not.

jannieC

07-08-2006, 07:00 PM

She may have never told this story but for some reason the image I have of her is wandering around the white house in a stupor in a robe and slippers, living on vodka and Fruit Loops.:thumbsup:

Someone gave me that image, but I don't know if it was her or not.
I wonder what the premise is at BF. Like, do they use 12 steps, etc., or less traditional methods.

strandinthewind

07-08-2006, 07:16 PM

Here are some stories

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/19/lkl.00.html

I also remember some big televised thing where she literally fell asleep on the stage behind his podium.

All in all, she is quite a woman who has inspired millions.

gldstwmn

07-08-2006, 08:42 PM

I don't know why but that totally just me laugh out loud! I keep forgetting that Betty Ford is called Betty Ford for a reason lol. I'd love to hear some BF drunken stories.

There were times when she was on television where she was clearly sloshed. It was really sad. She also had a pill problem in addition to the alcohol.

Kelly

07-09-2006, 08:07 AM

David

07-09-2006, 10:51 AM

What's the BLA?Blue Letter Archives

Johnny Stew

07-09-2006, 03:56 PM

The Blue Letter Archives can be found here (http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php). Hours and hours of free entertainment for Fleetwood Mac lovers! :)

WelshWitchPMD

07-09-2006, 04:57 PM

amber

07-09-2006, 05:12 PM

John Stewart? I thought that Joe Walsh was who Stevie claimed to have been the love of her life? :shrug:

She rotates them every five years or so...:laugh:

skcin

07-09-2006, 05:15 PM

She rotates them every five years or so...:laugh:

Yeah, I would say she was leaning back toward Lindsey around SYW time, so we're probably due for Mick next. :D

WelshWitchPMD

07-09-2006, 05:17 PM

Yeah, I would say she was leaning back toward Lindsey around SYW time, so we're probably due for Mick next. :D

Maybe she will say that it was John all along. :laugh:

amber

07-09-2006, 05:18 PM

Maybe she will say that it was John all along. :laugh:

:laugh:
I want her to name some random waiter or something she dated for a coke fueled month in '84...he lived in Ohio, and she was playing a date there, and it was magic - as magic as it gets, it was...

WelshWitchPMD

07-09-2006, 05:21 PM

:laugh:
I want her to name some random waiter or something she dated for a coke fueled month in '84...he lived in Ohio, and she was playing a date there, and it was magic - as magic as it gets, it was...

Yeah, I know what you mean. I am sure that it happened but I guess to Stevie it doesn't sound fabulous. There are a few kooks out there who claimed to have dated her however.

amber

07-09-2006, 05:22 PM

Yeah, I know what you mean. I am sure that it happened but I guess to Stevie it doesn't sound fabulous. There are a few kooks out there who claimed to have dated her however.

But she has dated non famous men, yes? :shrug:

WelshWitchPMD

07-09-2006, 05:25 PM

But she has dated non famous men, yes? :shrug:

I am sure that she has been with all kinds of men. ;) :laugh:

skcin

07-09-2006, 05:39 PM

:laugh:
I want her to name some random waiter or something she dated for a coke fueled month in '84...he lived in Ohio, and she was playing a date there, and it was magic - as magic as it gets, it was...

Didn't she recently mention a waiter? Did I imagine that? :laugh: In one of the Aussie interviews? Well, if she did mention it, she didn't name the waiter.

jannieC

07-09-2006, 05:45 PM

Didn't she recently mention a waiter? Did I imagine that? :laugh: In one of the Aussie interviews? Well, if she did mention it, she didn't name the waiter.
I remember her sayng somewhere she dated men from waiters to famous people. :nod:

skcin

07-09-2006, 06:17 PM

I remember her sayng somewhere she dated men from waiters to famous people. :nod:

YES! That's it! Not imagining thing, good, OK...

HenleyFan

07-09-2006, 06:42 PM

It was GQ he told not Vanity Fair. You can read it on our Eagles site, if you want.

Off the Record with Mary Turner - December, 1994

“Don Henley blew it on the fact that I had an abortion. He told a big magazine [Vanity Fair] that. I guess I could tell my story about me and Don cause Don accidentally let the cat out of the bag about that so there are things that I could write about but a lot of things that I couldn’t. See I would have never told that, I would have never told the world that. Ninety-two phone calls from Don and eight hundred apologies later but the fact is that that story it out now but the story behind it isn’t out, what really happened isn’t out, so that’s what everyone has to wait for.”

skcin

07-09-2006, 07:59 PM

It was GQ he told not Vanity Fair. You can read it on our Eagles site, if you want.

Hey there, nice to see you again! Any Don or Eagles news? Is there really a new album coming out later this year?

strandinthewind

07-09-2006, 08:08 PM

It was GQ he told not Vanity Fair. You can read it on our Eagles site, if you want.

Oops!!!!! Mea Culpa - thanks for the correction!!!!!!! And, as always, good to see ya around!

HenleyFan

07-09-2006, 08:17 PM

We lurk...just haven't had anything to contribute :)

It's looking like the Eagles album will be out in the spring (of 2007) with a big US tour to follow in the summer. I know we've all heard that before but this time it came right from Don's mouth. :)

L&M

Hey there, nice to see you again! Any Don or Eagles news? Is there really a new album coming out later this year?

JunkFoodGenius

07-09-2006, 09:27 PM

Black Widow and David ;) .....I'm in Burbank...and my fellow Stevie freaks are here and there in l.a. too :thumbsup: .....I used to live in Studio City!! :woohoo:

Lawsy, there are a lot of LA people here! (I'm by LAX.)

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 09:33 PM

I do not think it is hard to believe that an "intervention" occurred, I just do not know if it was her management who intervened. If things were as bad as we think they were, I hope her family staged one before Frontline. :confused:
As I stated above..an Intervention includes family/friends and in her case her mngt company. It was reported that it was organized by her Mgt Co - Frontline. So..they were all there.

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 09:39 PM

Yeah, I would say she was leaning back toward Lindsey around SYW time, so we're probably due for Mick next. :D
How 'bout a lil Rupert Hine?:laugh:

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 09:41 PM

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 09:44 PM

Didn't she recently mention a waiter? Did I imagine that? :laugh: In one of the Aussie interviews? Well, if she did mention it, she didn't name the waiter.
Can you imagine waiting on her / then asking for her digits???:D

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 09:47 PM

Lawsy, there are a lot of LA people here! (I'm by LAX.)
Welcome Jr. Ledgie...:p

sparky

07-09-2006, 10:10 PM

As I stated above..an Intervention includes family/friends and in her case her mngt company. It was reported that it was organized by her Mgt Co - Frontline. So..they were all there.

Which makes this double rehab make sense. I remember reading a few times where she specifically mentioned an intervention involving management, and of course her saying she went in after the RAL tour willingly. Lord, none of it makes sense, but consider the source. :lol:

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 10:28 PM

Which makes this double rehab make sense. I remember reading a few times where she specifically mentioned an intervention involving management, and of course her saying she went in after the RAL tour willingly. Lord, none of it makes sense, but consider the source. :lol:
What is she going to say? "I went kicking & screaming!"....
Welcome To The Room Sara says it all.
"Frontline baby, well you held her prisoner and after all these years..well as well as you knew her..In the never forgotten words of another one of your friends..(she was pissed at those never forgotten words)..when you hang up that phone..well you cease to exist" - yea..cuz you're fired!
I have the BLA looking for it....

sparky

07-09-2006, 10:48 PM

What is she going to say? "I went kicking & screaming!"....
Welcome To The Room Sara says it all.
"Frontline baby, well you held her prisoner and after all these years..well as well as you knew her..In the never forgotten words of another one of your friends..(she was pissed at those never forgotten words)..when you hang up that phone..well you cease to exist" - yea..cuz you're fired!
I have the BLA looking for it....

I don't know what the hell she should say. I just never heard the two stints story. And from the endless mentions of the subject, I never inferred that there were two different trips. The classic Stevie doublespeak of "there was an intervention" and "I went in willingly right after the tour" would finally make sense if there were two trips.

BlackWidow

07-09-2006, 10:55 PM

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 09:48 AM

David

07-10-2006, 10:42 AM

Maybe she felt like Frontline held her prisoner by making her tour more than she wanted to for RAL considering she spent a million or so to make that record. maybe she felt like she waqnted to stop the "life" during the tour but could not or she wanted to stop the tour to end the abuse, with a possible firest intervention at that time.

In the end, who knows.All good points. You have all raised such truly good points. I love all you guys. Plus, something I just thought of: Frontline, in those days at least, wasn't all business for Stevie. Some of her best friends, like Rebecca, were Frontline execs.

So to say that "Frontline intervened" in 1986 isn't exactly to say that a bunch of business suits intervened only. It was also her friends, people who had known her for a long time.

cliffdweller

07-10-2006, 11:24 AM

I don't know that she necessarily "changed her tune." I think that once she was in a better place both mentally and emotionally, she re-evaluated her life and priorities and realized that, as much as she would have loved to have had a child, she was just not willing to give up her career.

I agree. Try conducting an interview (with a seemingly unsympathetic interviewer no less) during one of the lowest emotional points in your life and see how you come across. Stevie is the queen of emotional highs and lows, her crazy, demanding life provokes them, so these kinds of mood swings don't really shock or aggravate me.

The one thing that gets on my nerves, however, in this interview is all her talk about SIAB. If in fact she was told by her record company that if she didn't do the song her career was over, why did she believe them? What? they'd drop her from her lable if she didn't do SIAB? I just don't buy it. Stevie does what Stevie wants to do, noone pushes her around like she's some up and coming ingenue. The woman is a rock music institution and she's trying to tell us that she was "bullied" by big bad music execs into doing a song she had no interest in? I think it's a wash. She agreed to do the song, probably begrudgingly, but I think she probably believed what the record people were saying, that it'd save her career from extinction, so she recorded the song and was dismayed that it didn't become the hit they promised it would become. Now THAT is revisionist history. And that part about if Mick had been there to rescue her on his white horse is utterly lame, but I know she was in a sad, pathetic emotional state at the time so I can forgive her for that. I'm just so glad Stevie picked herself back up from all of that. Man, this interview was really hard to read. I just wanted to yell, "suck it up Stevie and get back up on that horse (not Mick's though) you're much stonger than this!" :laugh:

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 12:29 PM

^^^^^

I think she was scared. I also think that many of her friends and family may have been telling her that her career was not what it used to be and that FM was pretty much dead in the water at that time, though TITN was very successful. Also, at that time, she said she was strung out on Klonopin. So, I think it was hard for her not to believe the so called experts.

David

07-10-2006, 12:38 PM

I also think that many of her friends and family may have been telling her that her career was not what it used to be Well yeah... I mean, I think the charts were telling her that! :eek:

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 12:41 PM

Well yeah... I mean, I think the charts were telling her that! :eek:

True - but I think it was further along than that. In other words, how to cure that or at least put her herself on the right track to curing that. I think OSOTM was a shock to her because I think she thought it was going to be a big hit. She really had no reason not to. RAL was a bona fide hit as was the tour. TITN was a huge hit. So, why wouldn't OSOTM be as well? So, I see where she is coming from when she says she was scared. I mean Bon Jovi at that time was selling millions of records. So, she was rather lucky to get him. Personally, I think a duet would have suited them better.

Johnny Stew

07-10-2006, 01:06 PM

The one thing that gets on my nerves, however, in this interview is all her talk about SIAB. If in fact she was told by her record company that if she didn't do the song her career was over, why did she believe them? What? they'd drop her from her lable if she didn't do SIAB? I just don't buy it. Stevie does what Stevie wants to do, noone pushes her around like she's some up and coming ingenue. The woman is a rock music institution and she's trying to tell us that she was "bullied" by big bad music execs into doing a song she had no interest in?I believe it's because she was in an emotional place where she could be bullied. She wasn't our "tough as nails"/"bounce back from anything" Stevie at that point in time. She was a woman who was overweight, felt tired all the time, and was struggling with being middle-aged. Her star was fading fast, and that was probably a very scary thing for her, after having been so famous for so long.

So the record execs come along and say, "you know, you might not like this song, but obviously you don't know what's best for your own career right now... look at the way "Two Kinds Of Love" and "Whole Lotta Trouble" flopped. We think you should record this -- otherwise, you might as well pack it in."

I just don't think Stevie had enough fight in her at that time to say "no."

sparky

07-10-2006, 01:19 PM

I believe it's because she was in an emotional place where she could be bullied. She wasn't our "tough as nails"/"bounce back from anything" Stevie at that point in time. She was a woman who was overweight, felt tired all the time, and was struggling with being middle-aged. Her star was fading fast, and that was probably a very scary thing for her, after having been so famous for so long.

So the record execs come along and say, "you know, you might not like this song, but obviously you don't know what's best for your own career right now... look at the way "Two Kinds Of Love" and "Whole Lotta Trouble" flopped. We think you should record this -- otherwise, you might as well pack it in."

I just don't think Stevie had enough fight in her at that time to say "no."

Dude, that Superman picture in your sig has been creeping me out for months and now I know why. He looks like Anne Hathaway !

danax6

07-10-2006, 01:45 PM

I don't know what the hell she should say. I just never heard the two stints story. And from the endless mentions of the subject, I never inferred that there were two different trips. The classic Stevie doublespeak of "there was an intervention" and "I went in willingly right after the tour" would finally make sense if there were two trips.But it makes me wonder why it did work the second time around then, if there were indeed two trips to BF in '86. It was obvious she didn't get off it the first time around, otherwise she wouldn't have had to go twice. She fell off the wagon after her first visit. Would her having checked herself in the second time around been more effective than her being pushed towards it? I don't buy that, I think there was probably more at stake that second time she went, or other people intervening, not some suits at the record company, if that is in fact what took place. She might have not taken them seriously, and just went because they forced her.

Then again, I don't think she was 100% healthy and cured after her BF visit when she did get off of coke either...it's very obvious Stevie only went more down and down as the years went by, hooked on yet another substance. Drugs are drugs, addiction is addiction. The only time she really got off of everything was in late 1993, which took her twice as long as her 1986 stint.

cliffdweller

07-10-2006, 01:55 PM

So the record execs come along and say, "you know, you might not like this song, but obviously you don't know what's best for your own career right now... look at the way "Two Kinds Of Love" and "Whole Lotta Trouble" flopped. We think you should record this -- otherwise, you might as well pack it in."

I just don't think Stevie had enough fight in her at that time to say "no."

And if this is the case, I wish I could have been there to kick their asses right out the door! I'd be Stevie's strength 'cause that song is ludicrous :laugh:.

ka10

07-10-2006, 01:58 PM

Would her having checked herself in the second time around been more effective than her being pushed towards it? I don't buy that, I think there was probably more at stake that second time she went, or other people intervening, not some suits at the record company, if that is in fact what took place.

Didn't she say she went because a doctor told her she could have a brain hemorrhage if she kept doing coke? Maybe she went in the second time because she was scared. :shrug:

-Kat

danax6

07-10-2006, 02:01 PM

Didn't she say she went because a doctor told her she could have a brain hemorrhage if she kept doing coke? Maybe she went in the second time because she was scared. :shrug:

-KatYes, but she was told that months before she even went. If she was that scared, I'd think she would have gone right away.

David

07-10-2006, 02:24 PM

Yes, but she was told that months before she even went. If she was that scared, I'd think she would have gone right away.
you make an excellent point there, vanessa
:wavey: :thumbsup:

The Tower

07-10-2006, 02:28 PM

The one thing that gets on my nerves, however, in this interview is all her talk about SIAB. If in fact she was told by her record company that if she didn't do the song her career was over, why did she believe them? What? they'd drop her from her lable if she didn't do SIAB? I just don't buy it. Stevie does what Stevie wants to do, noone pushes her around like she's some up and coming ingenue. The woman is a rock music institution and she's trying to tell us that she was "bullied" by big bad music execs into doing a song she had no interest in? I think it's a wash. She agreed to do the song, probably begrudgingly, but I think she probably believed what the record people were saying, that it'd save her career from extinction, so she recorded the song and was dismayed that it didn't become the hit they promised it would become. Now THAT is revisionist history.
And none of it explains away why on earth she recorded "Love's a Hard Game to Play". Bret Michaels wasn't ever that hot to begin with, and by 1990/91 Poison was pretty much over and on its way out.

I blame the combination of Klonopin, Stevie's laziness and the people she surrounded herself with at the time for this whole mess.

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:35 PM

All good points. You have all raised such truly good points. I love all you guys. Plus, something I just thought of: Frontline, in those days at least, wasn't all business for Stevie. Some of her best friends, like Rebecca, were Frontline execs.

So to say that "Frontline intervened" in 1986 isn't exactly to say that a bunch of business suits intervened only. It was also her friends, people who had known her for a long time.
No one EVER said it was just a bunch of suits "forcing" her to do anything!!
dana keeps creating that scenario in her own mind.:shrug:

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:38 PM

Well yeah... I mean, I think the charts were telling her that! :eek:
You can say that again!:shocked:

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:42 PM

True - but I think it was further along than that. In other words, how to cure that or at least put her herself on the right track to curing that. I think OSOTM was a shock to her because I think she thought it was going to be a big hit. She really had no reason not to. RAL was a bona fide hit as was the tour. TITN was a huge hit. So, why wouldn't OSOTM be as well? So, I see where she is coming from when she says she was scared. I mean Bon Jovi at that time was selling millions of records. So, she was rather lucky to get him. Personally, I think a duet would have suited them better.
There had been a progressive decline in sales from every solo project she released. In terms of sales...:shrug:
So I'm sure that creates some fear.

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:46 PM

But it makes me wonder why it did work the second time around then, if there were indeed two trips to BF in '86. It was obvious she didn't get off it the first time around, otherwise she wouldn't have had to go twice. She fell off the wagon after her first visit. Would her having checked herself in the second time around been more effective than her being pushed towards it? I don't buy that, I think there was probably more at stake that second time she went, or other people intervening, not some suits at the record company, if that is in fact what took place. She might have not taken them seriously, and just went because they forced her.

Then again, I don't think she was 100% healthy and cured after her BF visit when she did get off of coke either...it's very obvious Stevie only went more down and down as the years went by, hooked on yet another substance. Drugs are drugs, addiction is addiction. The only time she really got off of everything was in late 1993, which took her twice as long as her 1986 stint.
One is never "cured" from an addictive personality.
Treatment is about managing your disease. Maybe it
worked the second time because she was ready!

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:50 PM

Yes, but she was told that months before she even went. If she was that scared, I'd think she would have gone right away.
But Vanessa - that is what addiction is..
You are not clear headed and reasonable and responsible.
It makes you do stupid ****..regardless of the consequences.
seeing raw footage of Red Rocks alone would have made me go..lol.;)

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 02:51 PM

There had been a progressive decline in sales from every solo project she So released. In terms of sales...:shrug:
So I'm sure that creates some fear.

Yes, there had been, but RAL still sold very well as did her tour and TITN was a huge hit. In fact, TITN is the next best selling record of new material they have - with Rumors being the best. So, clearly, she was coming from that point of view. I mean if OSOTM was as successful as RAL, I think she would have been pleased. Sadly, it was not, which I blame on the production because many of the songs are brilliantly written IMO.

Note - I am not saying she as unaware of the beginning of her fading popularity and cool factor. I am just saying her sales history for the five years prior to that indicated she was still popular enough to sell at least a million solo records.

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 02:54 PM

Yes, there had been, but RAL still sold very well as did her tour and TITN was a huge hit. In fact, TITN is the next best selling record of new material they have - with Rumors being the best. So, clearly, she was coming from that point of view. I mean if OSOTM was as successful as RAL, I think she would have been pleased. Sadly, it was not, which I blame on the production because many of the songs are brilliantly written IMO.

Note - I am not saying she as unaware of the beginning of her fading popularity and cool factor. I am just saying her sales history for the five years prior to that indicated she was still popular enough to sell at least a million solo records.
But - Record Execs want better numbers than that I assure you.
It is Show "Business"

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 02:57 PM

But - Record Execs want better numbers than that I assure you.
It is Show "Business"

I know. But, her most recent effort, TITN, sold very well :shrug: I think it was 8 million - though I could be wrong. Coming off of that, I think she thought OSOTM would sell well - I would have.

danax6

07-10-2006, 02:57 PM

No one EVER said it was just a bunch of suits "forcing" her to do anything!!
dana keeps creating that scenario in her own mind.:shrug:I didn't create any scenario, I am just going by what other have been saying, which is her record company intervening with her supposed first BF visit. I am not saying it isn't true, because I can see it happening really, I always found it miraculous she got off coke after only going in once. It takes most people a lot more times to achieve that. But, it also takes a lot more motivation than your record company intervening... and I don't care about the people there being her friends or not, in the end it will always come to business and money with those people. I'd think an intervention of people much closer to her would be more effective, that is why I wonder what ultimately made her 'succeed' the second time around, and who was involved for that. She said she went in by herself, and that could very well have happened, but like I said, she was told months before she went that it could kill her. Obviously that didn't scare her enough to go to rehab right away. So, what did? :shrug:

danax6

07-10-2006, 03:00 PM

But Vanessa - that is what addiction is..
You are not clear headed and reasonable and responsible.
It makes you do stupid ****..regardless of the consequences.
seeing raw footage of Red Rocks alone would have made me go..lol.;)You are totally missing my point.

cliffdweller

07-10-2006, 04:39 PM

Bret Michaels wasn't ever that hot to begin with

Whew! You can say that again. And since we're on the subject, what's up with his horribly dried out, frizzeled out mess of a hairdo? It's ALWAYS looked that bad too from the 80's to now. Dude looks like he has something dead sitting atop that pumpkin head of his :laugh:.

Villavic

07-10-2006, 05:56 PM

.
Her home in Encino - up the road from Dave Stewart's house and over the brow of the hill from that of her former lover Tom Petty - is the sort of chocolate box creation you'd expect to find in a theme park. From the outside it's a Tudor mansion with Elephantitis; .........Climbing the stairs it changes from medieval to Hansel and Gretel, as the carved wooden banisters meander perpendicularly up three more stories. .....

Don't know about you but I immediately thought in Michael Jackson. Fortunately she didn't end like him.

.
Silver Springs nearly became a classic, but was dropped at the last minute from the 20-million selling Rumours album. Stevie thought it would be nice to resurrect the song and place it on Timespace. But Mick Fleetwood refused to give up the group's performance rights; he wants the option of having the number on a boxed set due for this year's commemoration of Fleetwood Mac's 25th anniversary....

Again that story? So actually it was Mick and not the record company, who didn't let her include SS in Timespace???

Anyway, it was an interesting article. Luckily Stevie Nicks seems to be far happier than in 1971. Hopefully this story has a happy end

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 10:38 PM

Don't know about you but I immediately thought in Michael Jackson. Fortunately she didn't end like him.

Again that story? So actually it was Mick and not the record company, who didn't let her include SS in Timespace???

Anyway, it was an interesting article. Luckily Stevie Nicks seems to be far happier than in 1971. Hopefully this story has a happy end
I hope so...:woohoo:

BlackWidow

07-10-2006, 10:58 PM

I didn't create any scenario, I am just going by what other have been saying, which is her record company intervening with her supposed first BF visit. I am not saying it isn't true, because I can see it happening really, I always found it miraculous she got off coke after only going in once. It takes most people a lot more times to achieve that. But, it also takes a lot more motivation than your record company intervening... and I don't care about the people there being her friends or not, in the end it will always come to business and money with those people. I'd think an intervention of people much closer to her would be more effective, that is why I wonder what ultimately made her 'succeed' the second time around, and who was involved for that. She said she went in by herself, and that could very well have happened, but like I said, she was told months before she went that it could kill her. Obviously that didn't scare her enough to go to rehab right away. So, what did? :shrug:
"I am not special, I am not infallible, I am dying."

strandinthewind

07-10-2006, 11:19 PM

I used to have an article where La Nicks talks about checking into the clinic and the people she met there, including this Texan oil man who lost his family and money, etc. It was very interesting and shed lots of light on he stint there.

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 11:23 AM

gldstwmn

07-11-2006, 11:29 AM

David

07-11-2006, 11:31 AM

"She was a self made woman, he was a self made man..."
Play a sound with the certainty that you have an infinite amount of time and space.
Play a vibration in the rhythm of dreaming and slowly transform it into the rhythm of the universe.

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 11:31 AM

"She was a self made woman, he was a self made man..."
There you go...:D

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 03:00 PM

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 03:01 PM

:D Whew! You can say that again. And since we're on the subject, what's up with his horribly dried out, frizzeled out mess of a hairdo? It's ALWAYS looked that bad too from the 80's to now. Dude looks like he has something dead sitting atop that pumpkin head of his :laugh:.
That was too funny...

skcin

07-11-2006, 03:09 PM

She did say 4 babies..not four lovers.

Right - 4 babies, not 4 abortions. I've bolded Stevie's words:

Was there a common thread among her men? "They're all very smart and very loving, and they all had a difficult time with my life and the way that I live it and how busy I am." For four lovers, a crucial test came when she became pregnant and opted for terminations. "It's always been a tragedy. But they understood." But they didn't really. "Eventually their hearts couldn't take it, they couldn't understand quite enough, how deeply embedded in this I was. And so it eventually hurt them too much and they had to leave, or face devastation on their own."

She put her relationship with her fans before a relationship with one man. Ever since she saw Janis Joplin perform, Stevie has wanted to emulate her, to achieve that state of communion with the crowd. "I just wanted to be in love with my audience and I wanted them to be in love with me back."
But now there is remorse at the havoc her abortions have wreaked on her psyche. "To give up four babies is to give up a lot that would be here now. So that bothers me, a lot, and really breaks my heart. But they're gone, so..." . She composes herself. "But I couldn't have because I was too busy. And I had all these commitments." She wants to adopt, but age and single-parenthood are against her.

I'm not saying she couldn't have terminated her pregnancy(ies), but I must point out that she is not quoted as stating she had 4 abortions - those are the interviewer's words. Perhaps there were 4 men at 4 times in her life who wanted to have kids with her & she told them no. :shrug: Perhaps she was pregnant & then miscarried 4 times. :shrug: Perhaps she did terminate 4 pregnancies. :shrug: My point is that we don't really know for sure what occurred, or why.

The Tower

07-11-2006, 03:23 PM

My point is that we don't really know for sure what occurred, or why.
And why would anyone care anyway??? It's nobody's business but Stevie's and the sperm donor(s)'. Why people think that this kind of thing is important in any scheme of things is beyond me.

Of course, I'm not directing this at you, Paula my dear- cuz I know you probably agree me with on this one. I'm just saying.... ya know?

amber

07-11-2006, 03:58 PM

And why would anyone care anyway??? It's nobody's business but Stevie's and the sperm donor(s)'. Why people think that this kind of thing is important in any scheme of things is beyond me.

Of course, I'm not directing this at you, Paula my dear- cuz I know you probably agree me with on this one. I'm just saying.... ya know?

I'm not sure people think it's important (well, I don't) but it is still fun to discuss unimportant things sometimes. I was laughing when everyone was upset with how mageboy described STevie's theoretical feelings about her abortions. "Oh, I'm sure it was a hard decision, and there was more emotional factors to it than that!" is what they said. Well, we don't know that either, and so what if it wasn't a hard decision? So what if it wasn't agonized over? So what if Stevie thought "Oh, hell no, I just became a rockstar, I'm hot, I have tons of sudden money, I'm having hella fun taking drugs and meeting cool people, I'm only 28, and a baby would be the biggest, non fun pain in the ass!" I certainly don't care. People were acting like he'd insulted her by insinuating that the decision was less then agonizing, and that it was related to drugs. So, big friggen what?

The Tower

07-11-2006, 04:03 PM

So, big friggen what?
Yeah- maybe Stevie was thinking, "Chuck it down the pan! Bring me a knitting needle!" or "Vaccuum that thing out, I got me some blow to do and some Mick to love!"

"I wanna boogie at Cal Jam II in a rockin' sun dress with my tambo a-flappin'!"

amber

07-11-2006, 04:04 PM

Yeah- maybe Stevie was thinking, "Chuck it down the pan! Bring me a knitting needle!" or "Vaccuum that thing out, I got me some blow to do and some Mick to love!"

"I wanna boogie at Cal Jam II in a rockin' sun dress with my tambo a-flappin'!"
:laugh: :laugh:

I think more sensitive souls are offended that she could be thinking anything like that. Although, I'm almost positive she didn't think it that crassly, if at all. :angel: But you left out "Oh, hell no, I am not getting fat and saggy right now!!!"

The Tower

07-11-2006, 04:08 PM

But you left out "oh, hell no, I am not getting fat and saggy right now!!!"
Or the- "I already looked hella fat in that crappy Civil War 'Stand Back' video- there ain't no way in hell I'm having Jimmy's kid now!!! Besides, we'll still be together in the next five or ten years- we can wait..."

amber

07-11-2006, 04:09 PM

Or the- "I already looked hella fat in that crappy Civil War 'Stand Back' video- there ain't no way in hell I'm having Jimmy's kid now!!! Besides, we'll still be together in the next five or ten years- we can wait..."

:lol:

And "Crap! I just got my new jugs a few years ago, there's no way I'm breastfeeding now. Shyeah."

strandinthewind

07-11-2006, 04:36 PM

She did say 4 babies..not four lovers.

My recollection is she did not say four babies explicitly in the audio interview, which is where I think this written interview comes from. They were talking about giving up children and loves of her life for her career and then after all that, she said there were four, which could mean babies of loves. If anyone has that interview, I would appreciate them posting it to refresh my memory.

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 08:01 PM

Right - 4 babies, not 4 abortions. I've bolded Stevie's words:

I'm not saying she couldn't have terminated her pregnancy(ies), but I must point out that she is not quoted as stating she had 4 abortions - those are the interviewer's words. Perhaps there were 4 men at 4 times in her life who wanted to have kids with her & she told them no. :shrug: Perhaps she was pregnant & then miscarried 4 times. :shrug: Perhaps she did terminate 4 pregnancies. :shrug: My point is that we don't really know for sure what occurred, or why.
I never said 4 abortions either! I said 4 babies...Maybe it is a reference to her Cabbage Patch Collection or maybe her beanie babies. I personally could care less.:)

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 08:04 PM

amber

07-11-2006, 08:10 PM

Amber,
I love how you keep it real and never lose your sense of humour!
Cheers!

West Sy-Eed.

\/\/

Johnny Stew

07-11-2006, 08:14 PM

Dude, that Superman picture in your sig has been creeping me out for months and now I know why. He looks like Anne Hathaway !:laugh:
I never noticed it until you pointed it out... but you're right, he does!

Don't worry though -- I was planning to change it soon anyway.

BlackWidow

07-11-2006, 08:22 PM

:laugh:
I never noticed it until you pointed it out... but you're right, he does!

Don't worry though -- I was planning to change it soon anyway.
So..Johnny,
How was Superman Returns??

SapphireSister

07-11-2006, 09:47 PM

I'm not sure people think it's important (well, I don't) but it is still fun to discuss unimportant things sometimes. I was laughing when everyone was upset with how mageboy described STevie's theoretical feelings about her abortions. "Oh, I'm sure it was a hard decision, and there was more emotional factors to it than that!" is what they said. Well, we don't know that either, and so what if it wasn't a hard decision? So what if it wasn't agonized over? So what if Stevie thought "Oh, hell no, I just became a rockstar, I'm hot, I have tons of sudden money, I'm having hella fun taking drugs and meeting cool people, I'm only 28, and a baby would be the biggest, non fun pain in the ass!" I certainly don't care. People were acting like he'd insulted her by insinuating that the decision was less then agonizing, and that it was related to drugs. So, big friggen what?
Right, all she told herself was "I don't want no crack baby!" Your points are valid but knowing the type of person Stevie is (without actually knowing her personally) I still believe in my heart it had to have been a difficult decision (not to mention the physical ramifications of having an abortion). I'm open to the idea that she may not have agonized over it as much as some of us might think but I still don't think having an abortion is an easy decision for anyone, even if you know you 100% don't want a kid. Mageboy's comment alluded to the fact that there was nothing more to the decision other than her drug habit and I totally disagree. The drugs may have played a part in the decision but I don't think they were the ultimate deal breaker. All of the things you said may have also contributed but I'm still not buying that it wasn't a tough situation even if she was sure about the outcome.

amber

07-12-2006, 01:10 AM

The drugs may have played a part in the decision but I don't think they were the ultimate deal breaker. All of the things you said may have also contributed but I'm still not buying that it wasn't a tough situation even if she was sure about the outcome.
That's fine. I don't really care if it was a tough decision for her or not, you can ascribe those emotions to her. I don't think Mageboy said anything so terrible or wrong, though. And I think it could be an easy decision for some people. You know, countering your point that it's not an easy decision for "anyone." It's mighty bold of you to say that you know how every single person in the world ("anyone") would feel about it. :)

skcin

07-12-2006, 08:08 AM

SapphireSister

07-12-2006, 11:24 AM

That's fine. I don't really care if it was a tough decision for her or not, you can ascribe those emotions to her. I don't think Mageboy said anything so terrible or wrong, though. And I think it could be an easy decision for some people. You know, countering your point that it's not an easy decision for "anyone." It's mighty bold of you to say that you know how every single person in the world ("anyone") would feel about it. :)
I don't know how every single person in the world would feel about it but I'm confident most woman would not just say "oh darn, I'm pregars, no big deal I'll have an abortion". I don't know if you know of anyone who's had one but it's physically not the easiest thing in the world. Again, the decision itself may be very clear to someone and may be an "easy" decision but the whole process in general is no piece of cake. I know someone personally who had one and it was never a question of whether or not she'd have the baby, she always knew it wasn't an option but it still was not an easy thing to have to deal with.
And again, we're talking about Stevie Nicks here. I just can't imagine it was something that simple for her and she did it and never looked back. She's very emotional and affected by things and if she did indeed have an abortion(s) I think it's something that deeply impacted her but again, that's just my opinion.

David

07-12-2006, 11:33 AM

I wonder whether Stevie has ever had a colonoscopy. Anyone know? ...

SapphireSister

07-12-2006, 11:47 AM

I wonder whether Stevie has ever had a colonoscopy. Anyone know? ...
Yes she has...she mentioned it in an interview back in 1992 and said it was a very "tough" decision. She actually wrote a song about it but has yet to record the demo. I'm holding out for a release on her next solo album, I think it may turn out to be one of her greatest masterpieces to date.

David

07-12-2006, 12:11 PM

Yes she has...she mentioned it in an interview back in 1992 and said it was a very "tough" decision. She actually wrote a song about it but has yet to record the demo. I'm holding out for a release on her next solo album, I think it may turn out to be one of her greatest masterpieces to date.All right. Enough with the goofy. Back to the abortion(s). I think these were major decisions in Stevie's life & I think they must have left their psychic mark on her & profoundly influenced her songwriting. In fact, they might have even influenced Lindsey's songwriting, & possibly even Christine's.

In fact--& I realize this is a long shot--but could Stevie's late-1975 move to black chiffon (which resembles mourning clothes) have been a result of these operations? I know Stevie always says that she switched to black because it made her look thinner, etc., but in 1975, it's hard to believe that woman was concerned with looking thinner. She was a sexy mite, lithe & lean like a professional dancer. Why would she have been thinking about wanting to appear thinner onstage? I don't buy that.

Also, her move to pink & powder blue clothes for the beginning of the Tusk tour in 1979 ... could that have been prompted by a desire to move beyond the "mourning period" of her operations, rather than her stated desire not to be called a witch any more? I don't buy that excuse, either--it seems totally bogus. She continued throughout the Tusk tour & beyond to present the clear image of mystical witchery & sorcery in so many ways (onstage performances, clothes, songwriting), so I don't buy her claim that she was trying to avoid the "witch" image by simply changing the color of her witchy clothes (which she also at about that time began to refer to as "Dickensian").

SapphireSister

07-12-2006, 12:49 PM

All right. Enough with the goofy.
Sorry you weren't amused :( I thought it was kind of funny and besides, you started it.
Back to the abortion(s). I think these were major decisions in Stevie's life & I think they must have left their psychic mark on her & profoundly influenced her songwriting.
Thank you! I'm glad you agree with me that it was a major event in her life and I definitely think it influenced her mental and emotional state and songwriting whether or not the decision itself was a difficult one.

In fact, they might have even influenced Lindsey's songwriting, & possibly even Christine's.
In fact--& I realize this is a long shot--but could Stevie's late-1975 move to black chiffon (which resembles mourning clothes) have been a result of these operations? I know Stevie always says that she switched to black because it made her look thinner, etc., but in 1975, it's hard to believe that woman was concerned with looking thinner. She was a sexy mite, lithe & lean like a professional dancer. Why would she have been thinking about wanting to appear thinner onstage? I don't buy that.

Also, her move to pink & powder blue clothes for the beginning of the Tusk tour in 1979 ... could that have been prompted by a desire to move beyond the "mourning period" of her operations, rather than her stated desire not to be called a witch any more? I don't buy that excuse, either--it seems totally bogus. She continued throughout the Tusk tour & beyond to present the clear image of mystical witchery & sorcery in so many ways (onstage performances, clothes, songwriting), so I don't buy her claim that she was trying to avoid the "witch" image by simply changing the color of her witchy clothes (which she also at about that time began to refer to as "Dickensian").
I'm not sure that it affected Chris and/or Lindsey's songs but it may have affected the overall vibe of the band if she was in distress. Did it affect her wardrobe choices? You're right that's a long shot but an interesting theory none the less. Wait she moved to pink and powder blue, the colors representing a newborn baby girl or boy? Interesting...

BlackWidow

07-12-2006, 08:29 PM

I don't know how every single person in the world would feel about it but I'm confident most woman would not just say "oh darn, I'm pregars, no big deal I'll have an abortion". I don't know if you know of anyone who's had one but it's physically not the easiest thing in the world. Again, the decision itself may be very clear to someone and may be an "easy" decision but the whole process in general is no piece of cake. I know someone personally who had one and it was never a question of whether or not she'd have the baby, she always knew it wasn't an option but it still was not an easy thing to have to deal with.
And again, we're talking about Stevie Nicks here. I just can't imagine it was something that simple for her and she did it and never looked back. She's very emotional and affected by things and if she did indeed have an abortion(s) I think it's something that deeply impacted her but again, that's just my opinion.
I think you are right!

BlackWidow

07-12-2006, 08:30 PM

BlackWidow

07-12-2006, 08:35 PM

All right. Enough with the goofy. Back to the abortion(s). I think these were major decisions in Stevie's life & I think they must have left their psychic mark on her & profoundly influenced her songwriting. In fact, they might have even influenced Lindsey's songwriting, & possibly even Christine's.

In fact--& I realize this is a long shot--but could Stevie's late-1975 move to black chiffon (which resembles mourning clothes) have been a result of these operations? I know Stevie always says that she switched to black because it made her look thinner, etc., but in 1975, it's hard to believe that woman was concerned with looking thinner. She was a sexy mite, lithe & lean like a professional dancer. Why would she have been thinking about wanting to appear thinner onstage? I don't buy that.

Also, her move to pink & powder blue clothes for the beginning of the Tusk tour in 1979 ... could that have been prompted by a desire to move beyond the "mourning period" of her operations, rather than her stated desire not to be called a witch any more? I don't buy that excuse, either--it seems totally bogus. She continued throughout the Tusk tour & beyond to present the clear image of mystical witchery & sorcery in so many ways (onstage performances, clothes, songwriting), so I don't buy her claim that she was trying to avoid the "witch" image by simply changing the color of her witchy clothes (which she also at about that time began to refer to as "Dickensian").
Wow........

BlackWidow

07-13-2006, 09:53 AM

DestinyRules

07-13-2006, 11:13 AM

When I was on Enchanted, the topic of Stevie having abortions regularly ripped through the board. There were very strong opinions from people who wanted any mention of the topic banned and there were those who wanted to lay it out there like anything that had to do with Stevie or FM.

I never had that topic affect me as much as it seemed to affect others until the three months I was acting as Enchanted's list op back in '99. I had to deal with the whole issue of whether or not to censor the subject on my watch. Ultimately, I felt then as I do now: Censorship of something related to Stevie or FM should NOT be what Enchanted is all about. The same holds true for the Ledge. Enchanted lost several people who couldn't bear to be around with the topic being discussed. That's part of life.

I hadn't read the article until just now. I hadn't even seen it until just now. All I can say is, I'm in the camp of those who believes Stevie's abortions should NOT be out of bounds for us fans to talk about. She had them, didn't she?

cliffdweller

07-13-2006, 11:29 AM

I'm in the camp of those who believes Stevie's abortions should NOT be out of bounds for us fans to talk about.

Well no, technically it's not "out of bounds" as a topic of conversation, but you gotta think ethically, should we be talking about them? Maybe not. It's still none of our business even if it leaked out to the press. I think people should exercise some decorum on the subject, I mean, is it worth talking about as fans? Isn't it really kind of tacky to drone on and on about the subject? And furthermore, who the f*ck cares? :laugh:

David

07-13-2006, 11:40 AM

I never had that topic affect me as much as it seemed to affect others until the three months I was acting as Enchanted's list op back in '99.
Oh my god were you the one who kickbanned me?? :(

skcin

07-13-2006, 11:55 AM

And furthermore, who the f*ck cares? :laugh:

That's kind of how I feel. I'm not saying "everyone shut up, how dare you talk about this." But really, does it matter to me? No.

sparky

07-13-2006, 12:23 PM

Well no, technically it's not "out of bounds" as a topic of conversation, but you gotta think ethically, should we be talking about them? Maybe not. It's still none of our business even if it leaked out to the press. I think people should exercise some decorum on the subject, I mean, is it worth talking about as fans? Isn't it really kind of tacky to drone on and on about the subject? And furthermore, who the f*ck cares? :laugh:

I don't really care if she did or not. But, Henley leaked it, and she herself talked about them in the press. So, the door is open. If it is of interest to people, I say chat away.

If people can't "bear" to be around that kind of discussion, I guess there is always ignore, or therapy.

DestinyRules

07-13-2006, 12:33 PM

Oh my god were you the one who kickbanned me?? :(
I don't know... I was acting list op from October through December IIRC. It was supposed to be a short term gig and it lasted three months.

However, you may know me from being friends with Susan on the newsgroup (the one who loves horse racing and football).

David

07-13-2006, 12:46 PM

I don't know... I was acting list op from October through December IIRC. It was supposed to be a short term gig and it lasted three months.

However, you may know me from being friends with Susan on the newsgroup (the one who loves horse racing and football).
Hot dang. It's been so long since I've talked to her. How is she doing?!

cliffdweller

07-13-2006, 01:33 PM

I don't really care if she did or not. But, Henley leaked it, and she herself talked about them in the press. So, the door is open. If it is of interest to people, I say chat away.

Yeah, I get it. I just don't think it's warrants lengthy discussion. I guess I'm not all that interested in the bodily functions of Stevie Nicks :laugh: and think it's an unworthy topic of discussion, but that's just me. If people want to talk about it fine, I just think it's kind of irrelevant and tasteless.

If people can't "bear" to be around that kind of discussion, I guess there is always ignore

I agree.

strandinthewind

07-13-2006, 01:56 PM

I don't really care if she did or not. But, Henley leaked it, and she herself talked about them in the press. So, the door is open. If it is of interest to people, I say chat away.

If people can't "bear" to be around that kind of discussion, I guess there is always ignore, or therapy.

I tend to agree. I mean if La Nicks put it out there, it is fair game. Interestingly, she really did not put this one out there in the sense that Henley did and she responded to that. As for this article, if it is based on the audio I heard, it is unclear if she meant four abortions or four loves of her life. She does, however, talk generically about never having children for her career, which is a form of putting this issue out there. So, I just take that for what it is worth :cool:

DestinyRules

07-13-2006, 02:49 PM

Hot dang. It's been so long since I've talked to her. How is she doing?!
About the same as always, re: diabetes. She has her good days and her not so good days, but we talked a couple of weeks ago and it was one of our usual "It's Late" convos.

I always thought you were the David she and I know from the newsgroup. I just couldn't be sure until just now!

sparky

07-13-2006, 03:48 PM

Yeah, I get it. I just don't think it's warrants lengthy discussion. I guess I'm not all that interested in the bodily functions of Stevie Nicks :laugh: and think it's an unworthy topic of discussion, but that's just me. If people want to talk about it fine, I just think it's kind of irrelevant and tasteless.

It is odd, and a point of interest to me, the different aspects of Stevie that people find worthy of discussion. On one hand, this whole abortion thing is just one more aspect of Stevie's personal life that made it out there into the arena of public knowledge. Is it intensely private ? Sure ? Could she have handled it in a way that made it hands off and taboo in spite of Henley's statement? Probably. But, much of her mythology and personal life has become so intertwined with her art, it is hard to see a distinction between private and public. It is my opinion that the shipper angle is is a little twisted and tasteless. From a fan POV and a psychological POV. But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie. I suspect there is something about that blend of public and private, persona and reality, that makes people so compelled to know more. Unfortunately it has become part and parcel of Stevie's schtick. And I use the word schtick with purpose and with all the meanings it could possibly imply.

strandinthewind

07-13-2006, 03:55 PM

It is odd, and a point of interest to me, the different aspects of Stevie that people find worthy of discussion. On one hand, this whole abortion thing is just one more aspect of Stevie's personal life that made it out there into the arena of public knowledge. Is it intensely private ? Sure ? Could she have handled it in a way that made it hands off and taboo in spite of Henley's statement? Probably. But, much of her mythology and personal life has become so intertwined with her art, it is hard to see a distinction between private and public. It is my opinion that the shipper angle is is a little twisted and tasteless. From a fan POV and a psychological POV. But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie. I suspect there is something about that blend of public and private, persona and reality, that makes people so compelled to know more. Unfortunately it has become part and parcel of Stevie's schtick. And I use the word schtick with purpose and with all the meanings it could possibly imply.

I agree in theory and if all parites in the discussion were altruistic in intent. The problem with Stevie (IMO FAR more than the other members) is that people just enjoy berating her and purposefully antagonizing the Chiffon Heads. So, that spice is in the discussion mix as well - at least to me.

sparky

07-13-2006, 03:58 PM

I agree in theory and if all parites in the discussion were altruistic in intent. The problem with Stevie (IMO FAR more than the other members) is that people just enjoy berating her and purposefully antagonizing the Chiffon Heads. So, that spice is in the discussion mix as well - at least to me.

I don't understand. The discussion is done to antagonize the chiffonheads ?

strandinthewind

07-13-2006, 04:01 PM

I don't understand. The discussion is done to antagonize the chiffonheads ?

No. But, some people participate in it or start it just to stir up shiitte. Certainly you have noticed that :shrug: Note - the Chiffon Heads can be way too sensitive as well, but, I submit not significantly more than the cheerleaders for the others. I think it just pisses the Stevie haters off that La Nicks is so much more popular than all the other members. I get that popularity does not equate to musical talent a la CM's piano playing, but without that popularity, the songs do not get produced, etc. So, it is a yin/yang as I see it. Yet, some, but certainly not all, people cannot help but bash and that is what I am talking about.

David

07-13-2006, 04:12 PM

No. But, some people participate in it or start it just to stir up shiitte. Certainly you have noticed that :shrug: Note - the Chiffon Heads can be way too sensitive as well, but, I submit not significantly more than the cheerleaders for the others. I think it just pisses the Stevie haters off that La Nicks is so much more popular than all the other members. I get that popularity does not equate to musical talent a la CM's piano playing, but without that popularity, the songs do not get produced, etc. So, it is a yin/yang as I see it. Yet, some, but certainly not all, people cannot help but bash and that is what I am talking about.Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

skcin

07-13-2006, 04:17 PM

Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

ChiliD. Well, actually, he bashes Stevie's fans more than Stevie herself, I guess. That's all I can think of right now. :shrug:

strandinthewind

07-13-2006, 04:24 PM

Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

Homie does it for a rise - but he can be funny and most know his shenanigans :laugh: I think Diss used to do it a little. Carne certainly did it.

As for defining bashing - I think calling her a cow, talentless, etc. is pretty close to the mark.

David

07-13-2006, 04:25 PM

ChiliD. Well, actually, he bashes Stevie's fans more than Stevie herself, I guess. That's all I can think of right now. :shrug:
Okay. Over the past ten years or so, I've been interested in the definition of bashing, the underpinnings of bashing, the motives, etc. I've come to the conclusion that bashing is essential to fan worship (& also exists apart from fan worship). Mike Bise used to bash Bekka pretty mercilessly in his fanzine Mirror Mirror. His hatred of her was musical & vocal, yes, but it also existed apart from that. He gave one the sense, in his writing, that Bekka was a usurper, a parvenu, that she was muscling in on Stevie's territory (even though Stevie had relinquished that particular plot of earth voluntarily herself) & even in some way trying to destroy Stevie & her legacy.

But can legacies be destroyed--at least in so facile a way?

I just ate a big piece of smoked sockeye salmon from the cold waters of Alaskan rivers. I destroyed it! Yum!

According to some definitions, I bash Stevie; & yet what's going on here? it's very interesting because all my sig banners, for example, have Stevie in them.

So that's why I'm interested in the characterizations of "bashing." I rely on YOU & other ledgies to help me form my delineative characterizations.

David

07-13-2006, 04:31 PM

As for defining bashing - I think calling her a cow, talentless, etc. is pretty close to the mark.Well, that's a good point. It would be hard to quibble with that characterization.

Now I'm beginning to wonder why bashing takes on a certain character, a theme if you will, with specific members of the band. For example, Stevie is often scoffed at for being dumb (whether she is or not is a separate issue). Mick has, too, whereas Christine, John & Lindsey--who have all been scoffed at for varied reasons--have never been called or considered dumb. Mick gets bashed for being a crass capitalist who turns the fan-artist relationship into nothing more than a marketplace of buying & selling. The others, from Peter to Bob Welch to Stevie to Rick, never get bashed for being crass & venal.

Different themes of bashing seem to accrue to the different members, not in turn but exclusively in some cases.

DestinyRules

07-13-2006, 04:32 PM

The biggest problem I see when people talk about "bashers" is the fact that, I get the sense that in the minds of some, if you're not OMG! fawning all over Stevie and if you don't see her as can-do-no-wrong, you are "bashing" Stevie.

There are people on here who can look at Stevie with a balanced eye. They can see her faults (perhaps that she's not a *musician* per se or she had as much to do with the reasons behind her breakup with Lindsey as he did), but also see her for what she does well. Namely, write some jaw-droppingly great lyrics that can summarise in a few pithy words things that it takes other people volumes to express.

When people criticise THAT group for trying to be objective, that's where I have a problem. I also have a problem with people who bash Stevie because of whatever reason, whether it's to get a rise out of the chiffon heads or it's some genuine vitriol toward her. But I also have a problem with too much hero worship of her, especially when it's done to the detriment of the other members of Fleetwood Mac.

cliffdweller

07-13-2006, 04:35 PM

But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie.

I know. That 1992 article was so sad though. Stevie was such a train wreck, I felt like a voyeur reading that article.

David

07-13-2006, 04:37 PM

The biggest problem I see when people talk about "bashers" is the fact that, I get the sense that in the minds of some, if you're not OMG! fawning all over Stevie and if you don't see her as can-do-no-wrong, you are "bashing" Stevie.See, I think that's at the crux of a great deal of antagonism between fans. It seems to self-perpetuate the motives for bashing. One person's perspective is obviously that he's just bringing a little balance & reason to a rabid group of worshippers, while the other person's perspective is that HE is the balanced & reasoned one, believing that he sees the idol squarely & without blinders & the other guy is just grinding an ax or exhibiting rage. So the more one person experiences the other, the more firmly entrenched his perspective is going to be in the future, & the other guy will continue to drop in his estimation.

See how interesting bashing & fan relationships are? :blob2: :blob2:

chiliD

07-13-2006, 04:43 PM

ChiliD. Well, actually, he bashes Stevie's fans more than Stevie herself, I guess. That's all I can think of right now. :shrug:

Sorry, I'm late...just finished a 3 day version of "Free Bird", so I couldn't hear the ruckus due to the 10 guitar duel.

Just saying that Stevie isn't my favorite member of Fleetwood Mac doesn't equate to "bashing" in my book. Making fun of the Chiffon Heads, however...:lol:...that's a hobby.

sparky

07-13-2006, 05:32 PM

No. But, some people participate in it or start it just to stir up shiitte. Certainly you have noticed that :shrug:

Not in a while. It has happened though.

Note - the Chiffon Heads can be way too sensitive as well, but, I submit not significantly more than the cheerleaders for the others.

Oh, I disagree. There are few people on earth more sensitive than the young bright eyed chiffonhead. Stevie inspires defense in many.

I think it just pisses the Stevie haters off that La Nicks is so much more popular than all the other members. I get that popularity does not equate to musical talent a la CM's piano playing, but without that popularity, the songs do not get produced, etc. So, it is a yin/yang as I see it. Yet, some, but certainly not all, people cannot help but bash and that is what I am talking about.

I have no idea what pisses anyone off. The bashing, as David so wisely points out, does inspire discussion. It is probably more instrumental in creating discussion than the kind of criticism of Nicks that I do. Mine is straight forward, logical to my way of thinking, and comes from frustration, genuine disappointment, or befuddled reaction at her various and many blunders.

TheWILDheart

07-13-2006, 05:38 PM

I have no idea what pisses anyone off. The bashing, as David so wisely points out, does inspire discussion. It is probably more instrumental in creating discussion than the kind of criticism of Nicks that I do. Mine is straight forward, logical to my way of thinking, and comes from frustration, genuine disappointment, or befuddled reaction at her various and many blunders.

Stevie was, is, always will be the ROCK QUEEN! So we laugh and forget about the blunders as she is so very wonderful and fabulous!!

strandinthewind

07-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Oh -- I don't know - let's start a thread and state the fact that La Nicks was a super nova of stardom was one of the main reasons FM reached mega star status and that FM was very lucky La Nicks did not leave them for a solo career and see who gets bent out of shape :laugh:

DavidMn

07-13-2006, 07:39 PM

Sorry, I'm late...just finished a 3 day version of "Free Bird", so I couldn't hear the ruckus due to the 10 guitar duel.

Just saying that Stevie isn't my favorite member of Fleetwood Mac doesn't equate to "bashing" in my book. Making fun of the Chiffon Heads, however...:lol:...that's a hobby.And youre quite good at that sir.:laugh:

Johnny Stew

07-13-2006, 09:29 PM

I've been lurking on a few different artists' message boards over the past year... especially a Madonna forum... and I've discovered that the interactions and personalities amongst the fans are all pretty much the same there as they are here.

Take Madonna for instance... she has her "Madonna can do NO wrong -- everything she touches is GOLD" fans, and she has her "She's gotten SO lazy lately -- have you seen her God-awful new video?!?" fans. And, of course, the two "factions" argue and haggle constantly about who's hopelessly blind to reality and who's just a miserable sourpuss.

Stevie's most lemming-like fans are, truly, no worse than the most blindly devoted fans of other artists. The same can be said of her most severe critics... they have identical counterparts within other fan communities as well.

Sadly, we're not as unique as we might like to think!

amber

07-13-2006, 09:46 PM

David

07-13-2006, 09:47 PM

Sadly, we're not as unique as we might like to think!
Well, d'uh, stew ... madonna.....I mean, geez... I coulda told you that madonna fans & stevie fans were all one big single personality.

Have you checked in with the fan base for Elvis Costello or the Smiths?

Johnny Stew

07-13-2006, 09:52 PM

Have you checked in with the fan base for Elvis Costello or the Smiths?I'm not sure that would be a good comparison though, as the fan-bases for male artists/all-male groups, seem to be different than fan-bases for female artists or bands with female members.

David

07-13-2006, 09:54 PM

I'm not sure that would be a good comparison though, as the fan-bases for male artists/all-male groups, seem to be different than fan-bases for female artists or bands with female members.
You may have hit the bull on the head there, stew.