Who else *doesn't* like Stevie Nicks' songs?

[ummagumma]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.

For instance, Tusk feels to me like it would be one cohesive musical work of art, if it weren't interrupted by endlessly droning songs like "Beautiful Child" and--again, no offense intended--"Sara". I do like many of her songs ("Gold Dust Woman" is one of my all-time favorites); it's just that her most popular songs among her fans are generally the ones I like the least.

I'm just curious to see if any other FM fans have the same opinion, because I have yet to encounter one who agrees with me. :p

[Gailh]

I'm mainly a Christine fan but I do like Stevie's songs.

It's just that her voice grates on me after a while especially on SYW

Gail

[billwebster]

I'm mainly a Christine fan but I do like Stevie's songs.

It's just that her voice grates on me after a while especially on SYW

Gail


Hmm, it was Billy's solo music that got me into Fleetwood Mac in the 1st place, and my 1st solo album of the others was Out Of the Cradle.
Strangely, I seem to like Stevie songs best that are not so popular on this board, like Docklands or Welcome To the Room Sara for example.
I have the feeling that Stevie's voice has gotten lower between the recordings of 'Street Angel' and 'Trouble in Shangri-La'. Or is it just the way she is being mic-ed in the studio?
Imho, her best 'Say You Will' song is probably Destiny Rules, but most of her Say You Will stuff I usually skip. I think that is because I can hear the tensions in the studio.

[eclipse]

I think Stevie's main quality is her vocalizing and harmonizing talent.
I think Mick's original thought was that she would be a background...in the shawdows, type of singer... that she was just a bonus that just happened to came along with Lindsey's vocals and AMAZING guitar.

So, OK he was wrong.
She was much stonger and more ambitious than he originally believed.
SHE was going to be a ROCK star! (and she was bringing Lindsey with her...not the other way around).
I think most people, who really think about this, know I am right, and agree.
That said, I have followed and loved her tunes both with FM and with others-Loggins, Eagan, Stewart,etc. Personally, I think she sounds best with someone (male), beside her. I agree that her voice has become (since like 86 til late 90's) rather tedious (I don't think that is the right word-but I will agree).

Stevie Nicks in 1972 through Bella Donna period?
Hard to beat-
Love the style, love the delivery, just love the girl!

[JazmenFlowers]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)
nice disclaimer.
Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.
plain and uninspiring? that hurts my soul. they are anything but that.
For instance, Tusk feels to me like it would be one cohesive musical work of art, if it weren't interrupted by endlessly droning songs like "Beautiful Child" and--again, no offense intended--"Sara". I do like many of her songs ("Gold Dust Woman" is one of my all-time favorites); it's just that her most popular songs among her fans are generally the ones I like the least.
see that makes no sense. BC and Sara drag on and on, but you like GDW? GDW infamously goes on and on. BC is one of Stevie's most beautiful songs, lyrically and musically.

maybe you need to re-evaluate your reasoning and provide more support and explanation so we can see exactly what it is that warrants your point.

[Miss Vicky]

I'm going to sort of agree with you - I don't like Stevie and haven't liked her for quite some time. However, it's not really her 'songs' that are the problem, though lyrically some do annoy me. However, I'm more so irritated by her deteriorated voice and range than anything else, especially since her softer songs - like "Beautiful Child" - are the songs I like best and still enjoy.

P.S.

Bill Webster - a big thumbs up to a fellow Billy fan. Stevie's music is what initially got me interested in Fleetwood Mac's music and Lindsey Buckingham is the one who turned interest into obsession, but these days Billy is my favorite.

Oh and Eclipse, it's Egan not Eagan. ;)

[JazmenFlowers]

her deteriorated voice and range
I hear a lot of these same kind of complaints by fans of other artists who have had changes in their voice; Streisand, etc. Maybe Stevie could have prevented it, maybe not. the thing that makes me sad to see someone be "irritated" or not like her for this reason is that a large part of the reason her voice, I believe, is the way it is (different, not deteriorated, by the way) is because she spent a good 10 years or more giving her heart and soul in performances of Rhiannon, GDW, SOTM and others. I just look back at her busting her ass on those songs to thousands of screaming fans and then years later...those same fans going "omg, she sounds like a dead goat" and I imagine what it must feel like for her. that's just me. it really makes the lyrics to SOTM so, so true.
Stevie's music is what initially got me interested in Fleetwood Mac's music and Lindsey Buckingham is the one who turned interest into obsession, but these days Billy is my favorite.
that's nice of you to say and it's cool Stevie hooked you and gave you the opportunity to discover Lindsey and Billy

[Miss Vicky]

a large part of the reason her voice, I believe, is the way it is (different, not deteriorated, by the way) is because she spent a good 10 years or more giving her heart and soul in performances of Rhiannon, GDW, SOTM and others.

Yes, I agree that a lot of the change in her voice is due to years of performing, and just the aging process in general, but I think a huge part of it is the result of the 3 pack a day smoking habit she had for years, not to mention the cocaine abuse.

[eclipse]

whoops-me, and a speeling error. hee-hee??
I am a really bad speller-

I like his music, especially with Stevie and Lindsey-and I know you are a huge fan Vicky...sorry for the slight' of name....

[MacMan]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.


So is it the songs you're not actually fond of or her voice? By the sounds of it, it's her voice, since you can handle reading the lyrics...

I don't know, for me I think if it were her voice I would have a hard time listening to the group as a whole since with harmonies and solo songs on the albums, she's everywhere! There's no mistaken her voice even when it's mixed in on the harmonies she's right out there. Her voice has changed alot from back in the day with only remnants of what it used to be - but it's still a pretty powerfull voice - and when she wants she can still write a good lyric.

[chiliD]

Ok, from the Buckingham Nicks days through Tusk, there were not too many straight male Stevie Nicks fans more intense than I:

I think Stevie was basically useless to Fleetwood Mac in the '80s and just should've just quit FMac outright after the Tusk tour ended (and Lindsey, too). Other than "Gypsy" on Mirage everything of hers within FMac post-Tusk was atrocious. (although a COUPLE of her background vocals on Tango... were pretty cool...the "tell me, tell me lies" part on "Little Lies" is really great). She did have a few (VERY few) high points (no pun intended) on her '80s solo albums, though (side 2 of Rock A Little & "Rooms On Fire" about cover it).

[David]

I think Stevie's main quality is her vocalizing and harmonizing talent.
That's what interests me about her, too.

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.To me, her lyrics are beside the point (as are all the other lyrics by the other Fleetwood Macsters). I like or dislike tracks based on how Fleetwood Mac treats the songs. Although some of them have nice turns of phrase, I see no great verbal poetry in these Fleetwood Mac songs, but I do hear some good aural poetry in many of them: a lyricism & an inventiveness in the treatment of the song that encompasses arrangement, production & performance.

[Peestie]

Ok, from the Buckingham Nicks days through Tusk, there were not too many straight male Stevie Nicks fans more intense than I:

I think Stevie was basically useless to Fleetwood Mac in the '80s and just should've just quit FMac outright after the Tusk tour ended (and Lindsey, too). Other than "Gypsy" on Mirage everything of hers within FMac post-Tusk was atrocious. (although a COUPLE of her background vocals on Tango... were pretty cool...the "tell me, tell me lies" part on "Little Lies" is really great). She did have a few (VERY few) high points (no pun intended) on her '80s solo albums, though (side 2 of Rock A Little & "Rooms On Fire" about cover it).

I agree that's Stevie did very little for Fleetwood Mac in the 80's and if I was in the band at the time I would have wanted to fire her for being so out of the loop and focussing on solo projects apart from 1 reason: She was the pretty face that the public had come to love and was a big star in her own right.
I do like her stuff on SYW though. Those are songs that grabbed me on first listen.
Why do you think Lindsey should have gone as well, Chilli? Similar reasons to Stevie? (i.e. focussing on solo project, song quality dropping)

TITN would have been much better if Stevie's songs had been replaced by more songs by Lindsey and Christine IMO. And Mirage is probably the same, though with the exception of 3 or 4 songs all 3 writers reach below average levels anyway, so it's not really fair to pick on Stevie. Apart from a couple of Lindsey's songs, Gypsy and WYWH none of those songs catch the ear. Just quite bland record, not bad, but unremarkable.

[bretonbanquet]

I came to Fleetwood Mac via Peter and Danny, and I never had strong feelings about Stevie one way or the other. I definitely don't have anything against her or her songs in general, and I like her 70s stuff including most of her Tusk songs. I'll also agree that her 80s Mac stuff was pretty redundant, but then I think Mac had entered the lazy phase by that time anyway.

She certainly has her share of duff songs though, for me - perhaps more than any other Macster. Her Tango stuff is fairly dire, and same goes for Behind the Mask - but I did like Billy's and Rick's stuff, so it's not that I dislike that era per se. I would also say there are many occasions when I'd rather hear Bekka Bramlett :sorry: Stevie's SYW stuff is patchy, in my humble opinion (just my opinion, of course :o ) - some I can listen to, some I generally don't.

I guess I could say that I like Stevie Nicks as an integral part of the late 70s Fleetwood Mac, but beyond that, I'm not really fussed. She's just another Macster to me, with great moments, and not-so-great moments.

[chiliD]

I do like her stuff on SYW though. Those are songs that grabbed me on first listen.

Yeah, it IS her songs that draw me back to listen to SYW. (Well, except for "Running Through The Garden"...{blech!})

Why do you think Lindsey should have gone as well, Chilli? Similar reasons to Stevie? (i.e. focussing on solo project, song quality dropping).

1) Came in together...go out together.

2) The flak he got from within the band for the (supposed) poor sales of Tusk. He basically, at that point, wasn't happy being in the band. (and his work on Mirage pretty much shows that)

3) Let him focus on his solo career full-time.

[carrie721]

2) The flak he got from within the band for the (supposed) poor sales of Tusk. He basically, at that point, wasn't happy being in the band. (and his work on Mirage pretty much shows that)

I've always sort of had this pet theory that some of his Mirage songs (especially Oh Diane) are an exaggeration/mockery of what "traditional" R&R songs sound like, and that they were a direct reaction to the flak he got for Tusk.

[Peestie]

Yeah, it IS her songs that draw me back to listen to SYW. (Well, except for "Running Through The Garden"...{blech!})


I personally like Lindsey's song's more, though I would have liked GOS instead.


1) Came in together...go out together.

2) The flak he got from within the band for the (supposed) poor sales of Tusk. He basically, at that point, wasn't happy being in the band. (and his work on Mirage pretty much shows that)

3) Let him focus on his solo career full-time.

Those are all fair points... I actually agree alot with point 3 especially. A full album of Lindsey's work is more to my liking than 3 or 4 songs on an album by him.

[jbrownsjr]

I hear a lot of these same kind of complaints by fans of other artists who have had changes in their voice; Streisand, etc. Maybe Stevie could have prevented it, maybe not. the thing that makes me sad to see someone be "irritated" or not like her for this reason is that a large part of the reason her voice, I believe, is the way it is (different, not deteriorated, by the way) is because she spent a good 10 years or more giving her heart and soul in performances of Rhiannon, GDW, SOTM and others. I just look back at her busting her ass on those songs to thousands of screaming fans and then years later...those same fans going "omg, she sounds like a dead goat" and I imagine what it must feel like for her. that's just me. it really makes the lyrics to SOTM so, so true.

that's nice of you to say and it's cool Stevie hooked you and gave you the opportunity to discover Lindsey and Billy

one thing you can say about Stevie is that she toured way more than the rest of the fab 5..... as a singer, i know i would be dying if I toured as much as Stevie Nicks

[cliffdweller]

I've always sort of had this pet theory that some of his Mirage songs (especially Oh Diane) are an exaggeration/mockery of what "traditional" R&R songs sound like, and that they were a direct reaction to the flak he got for Tusk.


:laugh: I like your theory A LOT!!

[carrie721]

:laugh: I like your theory A LOT!!

:thumbsup: Thanks!

[DavidMn]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.

For instance, Tusk feels to me like it would be one cohesive musical work of art, if it weren't interrupted by endlessly droning songs like "Beautiful Child" and--again, no offense intended--"Sara". I do like many of her songs ("Gold Dust Woman" is one of my all-time favorites); it's just that her most popular songs among her fans are generally the ones I like the least.

I'm just curious to see if any other FM fans have the same opinion, because I have yet to encounter one who agrees with me. :pI would tend to disagree disagree with you, but that's ok. You are certainly antitled to your opinion.:nod:

[TheWILDheart]

**WARNING, SERVERE RANTING AHEAD**

I love, no..i ADORE stevie and always will. For me, Stevie's music from 1975-1982 was the height of Fleetwood Mac albums until Tango came out in which 2 of her songs SUCK MAJOR ASS (Welcome to the Room, Sara and When I see You Again) but she made up for that with OSOTM and BTM. "Sara" is my favourite song of all time. I love everything about it. It's so deep and meaningful and Stevie's vocal is one of her best. I agree that her voice isn't what it used to be and agree with Vicky that this is down to smoking but I still love her voice. I really can't imagine young Stevie's voice singing songs like "Trouble in Shangri-La", "Everyday" and "Thrown Down". She has writen these songs to suit her voice today and personally i think thats great.

**END RANT**

Basically, I love Stevie. Both solo and with FM. Always have, always will. She is and always will be the rock queen!!

[cliffdweller]

3) Let him focus on his solo career full-time.

Fine, but who's gonna hear it without the tag "Fleetwood Mac" attached to it? He was smart to stay with the band as long as he did in the sense that his music continued to reach a wide audience that way, on the other hand though, his long tenure in F.M. just about killed him emotionally and psychologically so, I guess he was screwed if he did and screwed if he didn't :shrug:.

[chiliD]

Fine, but who's gonna hear it without the tag "Fleetwood Mac" attached to it? He was smart to stay with the band as long as he did in the sense that his music continued to reach a wide audience that way, on the other hand though, his long tenure in F.M. just about killed him emotionally and psychologically so, I guess he was screwed if he did and screwed if he didn't :shrug:.

He had a MUCH better chance of having the "Lindsey Buckingham" name become known in 1981, on the heels of the Tusk tour, than at any other time after that. "Trouble" was a decent hit, he could've built on that...if he'd have been able to follow it up fairly quickly, which, granted, isn't his strongsuit.

[DavidMn]

He had a MUCH better chance of having the "Lindsey Buckingham" name become known in 1981, on the heels of the Tusk tour, than at any other time after that. "Trouble" was a decent hit, he could've built on that...if he'd have been able to follow it up fairly quickly, which, granted, isn't his strongsuit.Yeah, I dont think fairly quickly is even in Lindsey's vocabulary.:lol:

[TheWILDheart]

Yeah, I dont think fairly quickly is even in Lindsey's vocabulary.:lol:

lol from what i know there is a huge difference between them. How many studio albums has Lindsey actually done? I only know of 2 (Go Insane, Out of the Cradle) and don't like either of them. I am primarilly a Stevie Nicks fan and Fleetwood Mac take a backseat IMO. Although I do love Mac, I prefer Stevie solo.

[cliffdweller]

He had a MUCH better chance of having the "Lindsey Buckingham" name become known in 1981, on the heels of the Tusk tour, than at any other time after that.

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm thinking more of today I guess. I just wonder if he had really tried, could Lindsey have been as successful a solo artist as Stevie? Both Lindsey and Christine made a stab at solo careers that just kind of petered out in the long run. I wonder why Chris only put out one solo album? Was it due to poor sales?

[chiliD]

I don't think that Lindsey's & Christine's solo careers (at that time) weren't actually solo "careers"...it was just a case of the band being on a hiatus of indetermined length.

Especially the case with Christine's 1984 solo album. I'm pretty sure was done ONLY because Fleetwood Mac didn't really exist at that moment (and the prospects of there BEING another Fleetwood Mac album was probably not such a sure thing) and she had songs that she needed to get out of her system.

No, I don't think Lindsey's solo career would've hit any kind of Nicksian heights, but I think he would've been more well known by name than he is even now...one reason is that he would've been touring to back his solo albums, which he didn't do until Out Of The Cradle.

[David]

I just wonder if he had really tried, could Lindsey have been as successful a solo artist as Stevie? No way. The answer's simple: His material doesn't delight as many record buyers as hers does.

This idea that, no matter what you sound like or write like, you can become a superstar as long as the marketing is behind you is misleading (because it's only true if you wrench it out of context). You could advertise a Satyajit Ray movie on the Disney Channel day & night for a solid year, but kids still aren't going to go see it. It doesn't give those kids anything they're interested in. "Law & Order" didn't give most listeners anything they were interested in (especially if they were expecting another "Go Your Own Way" from that song's composer).

Warner Brothers could have marketed "Law & Order" till Doomsday, & it would still not have been the smash that "Bella Donna" was.

[shackin'up]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrie721
I've always sort of had this pet theory that some of his Mirage songs (especially Oh Diane) are an exaggeration/mockery of what "traditional" R&R songs sound like, and that they were a direct reaction to the flak he got for Tusk.



:laugh: I like your theory A LOT!!


Me too, even better in my opinion, I think you're spot on, carrie721. A VERY convincing sounding thought on the way he responded musically after his masterpiece.

[cliffdweller]

Warner Brothers could have marketed "Law & Order" till Doomsday, & it would still not have been the smash that "Bella Donna" was.


From my childhood, I remember "Go Insane" being a huge hit on the radio and on MTV, but that's about it. Maybe people thought Lindsey was too weird :laugh:.

[David]

From my childhood, I remember "Go Insane" being a huge hit on the radio and on MTV, but that's about it. Maybe people thought Lindsey was too weird :laugh:.Radio play is sometimes misleading, I guess. Or your memory has faded (all our memories fade). I think a clearer picture of the popularity of "Go Insane" or "Law & Order" is found in the sales figures, which are very low for both albums--again, considering the artist was a member of Fleetwood Mac & the composer of songs like "Go Your Own Way" & "Tusk."

These were just not big hit albums ... certainly not anywhere near the scale of "Bella Donna" or "The Wild Heart" let alone any of the Fleetwood Mac albums from that era.

[jbrownsjr]

No way. The answer's simple: His material doesn't delight as many record buyers as hers does.

This idea that, no matter what you sound like or write like, you can become a superstar as long as the marketing is behind you is misleading (because it's only true if you wrench it out of context). You could advertise a Satyajit Ray movie on the Disney Channel day & night for a solid year, but kids still aren't going to go see it. It doesn't give those kids anything they're interested in. "Law & Order" didn't give most listeners anything they were interested in (especially if they were expecting another "Go Your Own Way" from that song's composer).

Warner Brothers could have marketed "Law & Order" till Doomsday, & it would still not have been the smash that "Bella Donna" was.

they could have given it away and it wouldn't have shipped as many units... he just wasn't mainstream on that album and thank God for that

[HomerMcvie]

they could have given it away and it wouldn't have shipped as many units... he just wasn't mainstream on that album and thank God for that
I LOVE Bella Donna and Law and Order EQUALLY.
The difference? I'd gladly play BD if friends were over. The idiotic public GETS it. Law and Order........that's a personal one for me, and I'd only play it when I'm alone. People don't get it, and I'm sometimes glad that I DON'T have to share it with them.
Bella Donna- I love the classic SoCal instrumentation on it. It sounds like Stevie recorded with the Eagles. Purrfection.
Law and Order- LindseyBob is sooooooo far out there, it's like an aural acid trip. Give me another hit of it! It's hard to imagine that he WASN'T on something, making it. It's so freaking weird, I love it!!!:thumbsup:

So, I love them both, for completely different reasons. And agreed, LindseyBob isn't for the masses(nor, for their consumption, do I think he ever intended himself).

[Angel69]

I dont think I would classify Stevie's music as plain, un-inspired or boring. There are some songs that are simple like Rose Garden, Landslide, The Second Time but I dont find them boring or un-inspired. They are for the most part acoustic ballads. Then we have her bombastic songs like The Nightmare, Whole Lotta Trouble. And we get her rockers like Edge, Nothing Ever Changes, Fall From Grace, Long Way To Go. And her simply beautiful songs like Beauty And The Beast, HAEWAFY, Beautiful Child, Bombay Sapphire.

Stevie for the most part always tries different styles and ususally hits the mark. Her attempts at country have always been very good like That's Alright, After The Glitter Fades, The Highwayman, Leather And Lace. These songs are more traditional country than anything we get from Urban, Hill or the others.

She has also attempted a funky R&B style with songs like Sister Honey, Love Changes (which I feel could have been a big hit had it been released as a single instead of Everyday), I Cant Wait, How Still My Love, Greta. Then of course there are her traditional pop hits which she has had many. Apart from Bella Donna her solo albums have always been an eclectic mix of material. So I feel it is safe to say that if you dont like her songs, her music is far from plain, boring and Un-inspired. She has for a "rocker" a very diverse body of work.

Songs I am not specifically fond of like Jane, Street Angel, IMO suffer more from a production standpoint than a vocal stand point.

As far as her voice I love it now as I did then. Its very rich. I feel she sings better live than Say You Will suggests. The only song on that disc that maybe could have used a better vocal is Running Through The Garden (though I LOVE that song, there is so much passion in that) On the Gold Dust Tour she was doing some excellent singing, as she has been doing with Petty. Yes she did abuse her voice in various ways but she still has it in spades. Her harmony singing on Insider at the Garden was stunning to say the least. And she kicked the **** out of I Need To Know and Stop Draggin My Heart Around.

[carrie721]

I dont think I would classify Stevie's music as plain, un-inspired or boring. There are some songs that are simple like Rose Garden, Landslide, The Second Time but I dont find them boring or un-inspired. They are for the most part acoustic ballads. Then we have her bombastic songs like The Nightmare, Whole Lotta Trouble. And we get her rockers like Edge, Nothing Ever Changes, Fall From Grace, Long Way To Go. And her simply beautiful songs like Beauty And The Beast, HAEWAFY, Beautiful Child, Bombay Sapphire.

Stevie for the most part always tries different styles and ususally hits the mark. Her attempts at country have always been very good like That's Alright, After The Glitter Fades, The Highwayman, Leather And Lace. These songs are more traditional country than anything we get from Urban, Hill or the others.

She has also attempted a funky R&B style with songs like Sister Honey, Love Changes (which I feel could have been a big hit had it been released as a single instead of Everyday), I Cant Wait, How Still My Love, Greta. Then of course there are her traditional pop hits which she has had many. Apart from Bella Donna her solo albums have always been an eclectic mix of material. So I feel it is safe to say that if you dont like her songs, her music is far from plain, boring and Un-inspired. She has for a "rocker" a very diverse body of work.

Songs I am not specifically fond of like Jane, Street Angel, IMO suffer more from a production standpoint than a vocal stand point.

As far as her voice I love it now as I did then. Its very rich. I feel she sings better live than Say You Will suggests. The only song on that disc that maybe could have used a better vocal is Running Through The Garden (though I LOVE that song, there is so much passion in that) On the Gold Dust Tour she was doing some excellent singing, as she has been doing with Petty. Yes she did abuse her voice in various ways but she still has it in spades. Her harmony singing on Insider at the Garden was stunning to say the least. And she kicked the **** out of I Need To Know and Stop Draggin My Heart Around.

What a great post, Angel69! :thumbsup: I totally agree with everything you said.

[The Tower]

There are some songs that are simple like Rose Garden, Landslide....
I think "Landslide" is one of Stevie's least simple songs she's ever written.

I feel she sings better live than Say You Will suggests. The only song on that disc that maybe could have used a better vocal is Running Through The Garden (though I LOVE that song, there is so much passion in that).
The only failing of "Running Through the Garden" is Lindsey's ****ty production. Stevie's vocal is utterly, stunningly, blistering.

[strandinthewind]

. . . The only failing of "Running Through the Garden" is Lindsey's ****ty production. Stevie's vocal is utterly, stunningly, blistering.

I agree!

AND - she somewhat repeats that vocal on Smile at You, which IMO also suffers from LB's lack originality.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree!

AND - she somewhat repeats that vocal on Smile at You, which IMO also suffers from LB's lack originality.

i agree too, i love this song... my problem with SYW is mostly LB.. and i'm more of an LB fan

[Angel69]

I think "Landslide" is one of Stevie's least simple songs she's ever written.


The only failing of "Running Through the Garden" is Lindsey's ****ty production. Stevie's vocal is utterly, stunningly, blistering.

As far as Landslide I was speaking in terms of the amount of production on it as opposed to something like Gypsy.

As for RTTG, I love that song though most people dont seem to like the vocal. I love her vocal on it, very powerful and passionate. That song has some great lyrics also.

[JunkFoodGenius]

For me, I first heard Christine McVie's stuff (I grew up listening to lite FM in the 80's), so I grew up with "Over My Head" and "Everywhere" and eventually got into my mother's records and discovered Lindsey Buckingham - I remember realizing he was the artist behind "Holiday Road" and I became a hardcore fan. I remember when "Walls" came out and thinking the back up singer was too good to be just a back up singer.

And I really don't care for Stevie Nicks. I like some songs - I found a cassette single of "Seven Wonders" in college that I wore out, I sing "Stand Back" a lot at karaoke, and one of my favorite songs to sing is "Angel". But I'm not a fan. I think she's a great harmonizer and has written some gorgeous music ("Sorceror" in particular, which I first heard in "Streets of Fire" sung by Maria McKee, I think.)

I think one of the reasons I love "Tango" so much is that it is essentially a "What if Stevie Nicks wasn't in this band?" album and you hear how unique Christine and Lindsey's voices harmonize and blend (which is why "Hold Me" is one of my favorite songs).

What's really hysterical is that a bit more than over a year ago, I met my roommate and Fleetwood Mac came up by her saying that she shared the same birthday as Stevie Nicks. I have the same birthday as Christine. We've even had a Chrstine and Lindsey vs. Stevie Fleetwood Mac Karaoke night (our local dive has quite a bit of Fleetwood Mac - they even had "Sugar Daddy" and stuff from "Out of the Cradle").

I used to be meaner to Stevie Nicks, but I've mellowed. But she doesn't make or break the band for me.

[HomerMcvie]

I think one of the reasons I love "Tango" so much is that it is essentially a "What if Stevie Nicks wasn't in this band?" album and you hear how unique Christine and Lindsey's voices harmonize and blend (which is why "Hold Me" is one of my favorite songs).

What's really hysterical is
Dude, lay off the junk food! Hold Me isn't ON Tango.
It's on Mirage.:wavey: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :thumbsup: :angel:

[skcin]

No, I don't think Lindsey's solo career would've hit any kind of Nicksian heights, but I think he would've been more well known by name than he is even now...one reason is that he would've been touring to back his solo albums, which he didn't do until Out Of The Cradle.


I always wondered why the hell he DIDN'T tour solo until OTC. :shrug:

[JunkFoodGenius]

Dude, lay off the junk food! Hold Me isn't ON Tango.
It's on Mirage.

Ah, Homer, I know that! :o I was just citing an example and neither "You and I, part I" or "You and I, part II" come close to the harmonizing they do on "Hold Me" - I'm just a little scatterbrained with my stream of consciousness. :laugh:

[Villavic]

I'm just curious to see if any other FM fans have the same opinion, because I have yet to encounter one who agrees with me. :p


Not me, partially

I mean, I started being a Fleetwood Mac fan, but in paralell I was kind of a Stevie fan. However I never was a Nicks fan since I don't like her albums, except the GH or Enchanted, maybe. I can't listen a whole album, but I do adore some of her songs, like Sara, Gypsy, If anyone falls, Stand Back, Troubel in SL, or Storms. And i do like other stuff like Talk to me or Destiny.

But I don't like Beautiful child, No question asked, That's alright or Paper doll. I bought TISL and Street angel, but never liked the whole works. I guess Bella Donna is her best solo album but I don't wanna buy it cause maybe I won't like it.

Same with Lindsey, I don't like L&O nor GI, though I did like OOTC.

[David]

I always wondered why the hell he DIDN'T tour solo until OTC. :shrug:They used to ask him about this. He would always say that he felt he didn't have enough material in those early days to be able to "make a statement apart from Fleetwood Mac" or some such.

I think that might be part of the reason he didn't want to tour earlier. But I also think he felt he didn't have enough time to really get into his own touring thing--like with "Law & Order" he had to finish doing "Mirage." Now with "Go Insane," he wasn't doing a Mac project at that point, so why didn't he tour for that album? If a career musician avoids touring for some huge stretch of time like 10 years, you can safely assume that he doesn't want to.

I think the major reason was that he was never that keen on touring--it was never his passion the way recording was. In those days, he used to say that the challenge of touring was to stay fresh & into it night after night. So that pretty much says it all about his feelings about touring.

[David]

For me, I first heard Christine McVie's stuff (I grew up listening to lite FM in the 80's), so I grew up with "Over My Head" and "Everywhere" and eventually got into my mother's records and discovered Lindsey Buckingham - I remember realizing he was the artist behind "Holiday Road" and I became a hardcore fan. I remember when "Walls" came out and thinking the back up singer was too good to be just a back up singer.Will you join a band I'm in to sing backup since you live in Los Angeles?
And I really don't care for Stevie Nicks. I like some songs - I found a cassette single of "Seven Wonders" in college that I wore out, I sing "Stand Back" a lot at karaoke, and one of my favorite songs to sing is "Angel". But I'm not a fan. I think she's a great harmonizer and has written some gorgeous music ("Sorceror" in particular, which I first heard in "Streets of Fire" sung by Maria McKee, I think.)Marilyn Martin, a Joe Walsh Band & Stevie Nicks Band backup

[chiliD]

("Sorceror" in particular, which I first heard in "Streets of Fire" sung by Maria McKee, I think.)

Marilyn Martin

[DavidMn]

Marilyn MartinI didnt care for that version.

[Pisces Queen]

I think the beautiful thing about Fleetwood Mac is there is something for everyone. You don't have to adore Stevie ~ dig Lindsey or worship Christine to LOVE Fleetwood Mac. It’s not a competition of who’s better. They are all unique and bring something special to the table. :xoxo:

[DavidMn]

I think the beautiful thing about Fleetwood Mac is there is something for everyone. You don't have to adore Stevie ~ dig Lindsey or worship Christine to LOVE Fleetwood Mac. It’s not a competition of who’s better. They are all unique and bring something special to the table. :xoxo:I couldnt agree more!:nod:

[Villavic]

I think the beautiful thing about Fleetwood Mac is there is something for everyone. You don't have to adore Stevie ~ dig Lindsey or worship Christine to LOVE Fleetwood Mac. It’s not a competition of who’s better. They are all unique and bring something special to the table. :xoxo:

Yes, specially the combination of all of them

[TheWILDheart]

I think the beautiful thing about Fleetwood Mac is there is something for everyone. You don't have to adore Stevie ~ dig Lindsey or worship Christine to LOVE Fleetwood Mac. It’s not a competition of who’s better. They are all unique and bring something special to the table. :xoxo:


I completely agree. As much as I love and prefer Stevie solo, I listen to Fleetwood Mac more because of the variety. Lindsey, Stevie and Christine are equally talented and each have something excellent but unique to offer and when you put those unique talents together, something quite incredible happens - a Fleetwood Mac record is born :). There is something very distinctive about Fleetwood Mac. Even my non-mac-fan friends can pin point the mac sound and yet there are huge differences between the singers. I mean, there are massive differences between Mac and Stevie solo - they sound different. The thing about Mac is you've gotta love one of em! However, I'm super-dooper extra FABULOUS because I love them all :D!!

[chiliD]

I think the beautiful thing about Fleetwood Mac is there is something for everyone. You don't have to adore Stevie ~ dig Lindsey or worship Christine to LOVE Fleetwood Mac. It’s not a competition of who’s better. They are all unique and bring something special to the table. :xoxo:


And, there's all the OTHER incarnations of the band that people can enjoy, too...ones that don't HAVE Lindsey, Stevie & Christine in them.

[JunkFoodGenius]

Marilyn Martin

Thank you for the assist!

As to the Fleetwood Mac variety...absolutely, yes. I came into from the adult contemporary (I was a mellow toddler), but now that I'm all grown up with my own record player and with old records fairly cheap, there's always something new to discover.

[HomerMcvie]

And, there's all the OTHER incarnations of the band that people can enjoy, too...ones that don't HAVE Lindsey, Stevie & Christine in them.
Like WHO?:D

[jbrownsjr]

Like WHO?:D

when is the last time Christine didn't appear on an album mr chili?

didn't she sort of touch Then Play On?

so all of the american release so far..

[jbrownsjr]

Like WHO?:D

i thought i told u to be quiet... where's carne when i need him:woohoo:

[Serrart]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever. I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.

For instance, Tusk feels to me like it would be one cohesive musical work of art, if it weren't interrupted by endlessly droning songs like "Beautiful Child" and--again, no offense intended--"Sara". I do like many of her songs ("Gold Dust Woman" is one of my all-time favorites); it's just that her most popular songs among her fans are generally the ones I like the least.

I'm just curious to see if any other FM fans have the same opinion, because I have yet to encounter one who agrees with me. :p

I don't agree with anything you said, for instance, Tusk without Stevie songs would sound to me like a too loud washing machine meeting a medley of club music but obviously de gustibus...

Romy

[sparky]

First off: I'm not trying to start a flamewar, and I really hope that I don't offend anyone here, because that's not my intention. Everyone has different tastes. :)

Oh Gumma, you're always gonna get someone's panties in a wad if you dare diss Stevie. But you were pretty gentle, so you weren't skinned alive and drug through the streets.

That said, I have to say that I am not overly fond of most Stevie Nicks songs. Generally they strike me as very "plain" and uninspiring from a musical standpoint, boring, monotonous, and they feel like they go on forever.

That's interesting. You know, I rarely have heard anyone characterize her songs as generally boring or plain. Monotonous, certainly. Who on the other hand, do you find stimulating ? I could, for the record, list a good dozen songs of Stevie's that I find plain and boring.
You do have a point, many of her songs are at heart tremendously simple musically. I mean, for christ's sake, she knows five chords and plays piano like a child. Thank GOD for the producers. Thank God for them.

I do appreciate her lyrics; it's just that I'd rather read them in a book of poetry.

:shocked:

Okay. Not dissing you. There are probably six or seven songs that I think have some moving poetic strains to them...Storms, Landslide (simple as it is)...
damn...I am at a loss. There are a few others. Mostly for me, it is one particular phrase in a song that hits me as pure genius. And often that is translated only musically, and I forever think of it in terms of the emotional charge it carried when she delivered it vocally. On paper it may have had little impact at all. Actually, that is my feeling about most of her lyrics. There is a flash of brilliance here and there, but it is usually couched in so much vaguery and worn out cliches that the piece can't hope to hang together on it's own without music. So I don't really consider her much of a poet. Her musicality does, however, lend a poetic quality to what are otherwise fairly pedestrian phrases and imagery. I can't refer to her as a poet with a straight face.

For instance, Tusk feels to me like it would be one cohesive musical work of art, if it weren't interrupted by endlessly droning songs like "Beautiful Child" and--again, no offense intended--"Sara". I do like many of her songs ("Gold Dust Woman" is one of my all-time favorites); it's just that her most popular songs among her fans are generally the ones I like the least.

You don't need to apologize. Of course you're going to offend someone. Hell, your name probably offends someone. I agree, her popular ones are the ones I like least, generally. What is it about BC that makes you feel it drones ? The vocal ? I suspect it is the pacing. Both it and Sara have a bit of dirge-like feel to them. And of course, they are just rife with drama queen energy. But it is a kind of tranqued out drama. Perfect for 1979.

I'm just curious to see if any other FM fans have the same opinion, because I have yet to encounter one who agrees with me. :p

I don't know that I share a lot of your opinions, but I do agree with parts of them. I'd actually like to hear a more detailed analysis of what exactly you don't like about her stuff. It beats the hell out of "SHE RAWKS!" or "SHE'S THE QUEEN OF THE GOATS AND SUCKS!"

Thoughtful and reasoned statements are fun to read.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't agree with anything you said, for instance, Tusk without Stevie songs would sound to me like a too loud washing machine meeting a medley of club music but obviously de gustibus...

Romy

I think Stevie balanced Tusk out more than Christine did.

[JazmenFlowers]

And of course, they are just rife with drama queen energy.
no wonder I like them so much.

[JunkFoodGenius]

Will you join a band I'm in to sing backup since you live in Los Angeles?
Marilyn Martin, a Joe Walsh Band & Stevie Nicks Band backup

My only credentials being a Fleetwood Mac fan? ;)

[HomerMcvie]

i thought i told u to be quiet... where's carne when i need him:woohoo:
Listen beeeatch, don't make me take my belt off!:blob2: Wait, that might not be a good idea...:sorry:

[jbrownsjr]

Listen beeeatch, don't make me take my belt off!:blob2: Wait, that might not be a good idea...:sorry:

Storms... Beautiful Child.. Sisters, Angel, Sara...

plus she didn't record them while laying naked on the bathroom floor... which by default helped balance out the whacky LB and his genius lyrics...

countin on my fingers, countin on my toes... (everybody)!!!

[HomerMcvie]

Storms... Beautiful Child..
Drone, drone..........ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............

[TheWILDheart]

Drone, drone..........ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............


are you MAD!?

[The Tower]

There are a few others. Mostly for me, it is one particular phrase in a song that hits me as pure genius. And often that is translated only musically, and I forever think of it in terms of the emotional charge it carried when she delivered it vocally. On paper it may have had little impact at all. Actually, that is my feeling about most of her lyrics. There is a flash of brilliance here and there, but it is usually couched in so much vaguery and worn out cliches that the piece can't hope to hang together on it's own without music. So I don't really consider her much of a poet. Her musicality does, however, lend a poetic quality to what are otherwise fairly pedestrian phrases and imagery. I can't refer to her as a poet with a straight face.
:nod: :nod: :nod:

This is the absolute essence of what makes Stevie "Stevie Nicks".

So much of the body of her lyric work just does not hold up. However, when you take her voice and her passion and her impact and you plug those characteristics into her questionable lyrics and those same five chords over and over and over again it is magic. ZZZZZZING!!!!! The lyrics only gain their true meaning once she has injected her magic into them. That's why with very few exceptions, no other artists can cover Stevie's material without looking like complete douchebags.

I have had disc two of Enchanted in my car CD player for the last three or four weeks (mainly because I couldn't find disc three anywhere). And, I swear, I have had the live version of "Edge of Seventeen" on repeat for probably the last five or six days. It is electric. You can just feel the energy and tension in the air when Waddy hits that guitar. And the first verse after the initial chorus is devasting...

"He was no more....... than a baby then {Roy Bittan piano fill}
Well, he- seemed broken hearted {<--- brilliant syncopation into a pause}
Something within him!! {your heart stops in anticipation of what's to come}

{Growls} But the moment- that I first laid {another brilliant pause}
Eyes. On. Him. {slides right into black ink darkness}
All alone on the edge of...........
Seventeen......."

I just keep rewinding that part over and over again because you can literally feel Stevie's intense, dedicated, sincere passion to every single word and inflection that she is singing. And her vocal is right in there in sync with all of the instruments in the band. You just know that her mind is exploding listening to Waddy's chug and Roy's excellent, excellent piano.

The only reason that Stevie ever "works" is because of her incredible passion. It's impossible for Stevie to pull anything off if she's not into the song- everything just falls completely flat. Just like drinking flat champagne. But, when she is on there is nothing else like it in the world. Nothing. It's a drug. And that's why I'm usually ended up disappointed these days- with a few exceptions.

By the by, Sparky- I followed your instructions and went over to the Lewdge to download the Montreaux version of "Woodstock" and you are right- I haven't heard that "Stevie" voice in a long time. And again, I truly believe it's because the passion was there and plugged into that song. I mean, just look at the difference between the recent versions of "I Need Know" compared to her performances of it from the last ten/fifteen years. Jeezus!!!

[The Tower]

I always thought that was a lame reason: that he didn't have enough material, especially when he then went onto call Christine and Stevie "lounge acts" because they performed Mac songs. His first tour, what does he do? Play only one song each from his first two albums, and pad it out with Mac songs, including The Chain! :rolleyes: I suspect the real reasons are the ones you stated, but really why didn't he just say that?
I remember seeing Lindsey on that tour here in SoCal at The Coach House, which is a tiny, tiny, "boutique" type venue. And I just couldn't believe that he was doing stuff like "The Chain" and "Go Your Own Way". :rolleyes: I mean- come on Lindsey, stop being such a damned hypocrite. He he was with a six-player guitar army and killer session players up the wazoo and he's playing old warhorses??? Gimme a break.

Don't get me wrong- he was ****ing brilliant. I'm just saying......

[sparky]

The lyrics only gain their true meaning once she has injected her magic into them. That's why with very few exceptions, no other artists can cover Stevie's material without looking like complete douchebags.

True enough. That's why Landslide and Dreams get covered. They are the most accessible.

I have had disc two of Enchanted in my car CD player for the last three or four weeks (mainly because I couldn't find disc three anywhere). And, I swear, I have had the live version of "Edge of Seventeen" on repeat for probably the last five or six days.

I was thinking yesterday about what lines are really decent poetically, and this song contains some corkers. My favorite is "And the days go by/Like a strand in the wind/ In the web that is my own/I begin again." Those three lines have a ****load of layers and the imagery is extremely loaded. Even though the song has an extremely odd structure, what she does in it is very evocative. As far as her catalogue goes, I think Edge is one of the last truly great songs she wrote. The other notable later one being BATB.

The only reason that Stevie ever "works" is because of her incredible passion. It's impossible for Stevie to pull anything off if she's not into the song- everything just falls completely flat. Just like drinking flat champagne. But, when she is on there is nothing else like it in the world. Nothing. It's a drug. And that's why I'm usually ended up disappointed these days- with a few exceptions.

Preacher, meet choir.

By the by, Sparky- I followed your instructions and went over to the Lewdge to download the Montreaux version of "Woodstock" and you are right- I haven't heard that "Stevie" voice in a long time. And again, I truly believe it's because the passion was there and plugged into that song.

It doesn't even sound like the same person. I certainly hope a clean copy of the entire song is out there. I never pictured Woodstock as a crazy rave up like that. It sounds like a terrible idea, but it was kick ass.

You really only get a taste of that intensity these days during SB, BATB, Edge, and on the last tour, Rock and Roll. The rest of the set is essentially phoned in. But you are right on, when she commits, it is still great. The rest of the show, drink beer and pee.:thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Drone, drone..........ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............

which makes my point, they are the counterpoint to songs like ledge, wmytyto, etc...

[Hawkeye]

They used to ask him about this. He would always say that he felt he didn't have enough material in those early days to be able to "make a statement apart from Fleetwood Mac" or some such.

I think that might be part of the reason he didn't want to tour earlier. But I also think he felt he didn't have enough time to really get into his own touring thing--like with "Law & Order" he had to finish doing "Mirage." Now with "Go Insane," he wasn't doing a Mac project at that point, so why didn't he tour for that album? If a career musician avoids touring for some huge stretch of time like 10 years, you can safely assume that he doesn't want to.

I think the major reason was that he was never that keen on touring--it was never his passion the way recording was. In those days, he used to say that the challenge of touring was to stay fresh & into it night after night. So that pretty much says it all about his feelings about touring.

Lets face it, the real reason he wasn't touring in the 80's was becuase he couldn't play all the instruments himself on stage :laugh: He would've actually had t play with ohter musicians, and for him at least at first he couldn't consider himself solo unless he actually was SOLO.

[Peestie]

Lets face it, the real reason he wasn't touring in the 80's was becuase he couldn't play all the instruments himself on stage :laugh: He would've actually had t play with ohter musicians, and for him at least at first he couldn't consider himself solo unless he actually was SOLO.

:laugh: I wouldn't be suprised!

[SteveMacD]

Honestly, Peter Green is the only member of Fleetwood Mac who I think could have handled an entire album as the sole singer/songwriter. He had the voice and the diversity of material to actually pull something like that off, he just didn't want to.

The rest are all best in balanced doses. Even when they're bringing their "A" games, they still can get on my nerves. I'm not a big fan of the solo albums.

[cliffdweller]

(I was a mellow toddler)

:laugh::laugh: I'm picturing a stoned two year old. Okay, sorry, carry on...

[cliffdweller]

I think Edge is one of the last truly great songs she wrote.


The only thing that gets me with Edge is the discontinuity. I feel like I'm listening to 4 different narratives in one song. I mean the song is epic don't get me wrong, but lyrically it seems really chopped up to me. I'm guessing the song as a whole came from several different written sources and then sewed together as is often the case with Stevie. That said, I think the lyrics (standing on their own) are amazing. It's good stuff it's just that the narrative doesn't really cohere into one long, tight song for me. I mean where are the smooth transitions from verse to verse?! Where's the red thread running throughout? :laugh: That said, I still love this song. It rocks and that's enough for me.

[JunkFoodGenius]

:laugh::laugh: I'm picturing a stoned two year old. Okay, sorry, carry on...

I did grow up in a trailer park by the cemetary in a small town in Idaho...lord knows those things aren't well insulated...this could be why I had a better understanding of "The Wizard of Oz" years ahead my classmates...;)