Question for the regulars in this forum

[DavidMn]

I want to make it very clear before I go any further that I am not trying to troll the Christine room here. That being said, I've noticed that some of Chris' fans particularly dislike Stevie, which is perfectly ok because it's a free country. However, I havent noticed as much venom directed towards Christine fans by Stevie fans as I have the opposite. Personally I enjoy both very much, it's one of the reasons I love Fleetwood Mac so much, cause theyre both there. I guess the question I have is why some of you feel so strongly about this? I'm not trying to incite anything, It's more out of curiosity thatn anything. And, please feel free to express your opiion any way you wish.:)

[becca]

I haven't felt strongly about it, but there were quite a few years where I really had heard enough Stevie and yet I never got tired of Christine's music. Rhinannon is a memorable touchstone for me from the time it came out as are many other Stevie songs, but I really got to a point where like the Eagles or Creedence Clearwater or later Pink Floyd, I didn't want to hear it. The odd song like Outside The Rain was a rare exception where I could enjoy that again, but anything by Christine I have been able to enjoy all along.

I guess putting Stevie in with The Floyd etc. is a kind of praise. I can enjoy her music again lately but there must have been a dozen years where I would run from it. Christine is often unfairly lost in her shadow in many Christine fans' opinions, none of which is Stevie's fault. Success can breed a kind of contempt or resentment sometimes too. I can't count how many times someone who liked something that wasn't popular got mad at REM or Coldplay or The Strokes as being unworthy comapred to such and such.

[DavidMn]

I haven't felt strongly about it, but there were quite a few years where I really had heard enough Stevie and yet I never got tired of Christine's music. Rhinannon is a memorable touchstone for me from the time it came out as are many other Stevie songs, but I really got to a point where like the Eagles or Creedence Clearwater or later Pink Floyd, I didn't want to hear it. The odd song like Outside The Rain was a rare exception where I could enjoy that again, but anything by Christine I have been able to enjoy all along.

I guess putting Stevie in with The Floyd etc. is a kind of praise. I can enjoy her music again lately but there must have been a dozen years where I would run from it. Christine is often unfairly lost in her shadow in many Christine fans' opinions, none of which is Stevie's fault. Success can breed a kind of contempt or resentment sometimes too. I can't count how many times someone who liked something that wasn't popular got mad at REM or Coldplay or The Strokes as being unworthy comapred to such and such.I appreciate your thoughtful response. Thank you.:nod:

[foxyluva]

Christine is often unfairly lost in her shadow in many Christine fans' opinions, none of which is Stevie's fault. Success can breed a kind of contempt or resentment sometimes too.

Wow, so true...

[GypsySongbird]

i love stevie, i really do, honestly as much as christine. sometimes its slightly annoying however the way christine is seen as second best, not really in the opinion of alot of stevie fans but just as an accepted fact, which we know is not true, theyre as amazing as each other! :D

[becca]

theyre as amazing as each other! :D

The difference for me is the solo albums of Stevie's which have been such massive commercial successes, and her solo tours. Christine's music isn't as brassy but is equally excellent, just in quieter way. Commercially they have done as well with Mac recordings. I know how much Over My Head and Say You Love Me were being played when they were new and they were huge hits.

[Rickypt]

Even though I'm a huge Stevie fan, I can honestly say that I don't dislike a single Christine McVie song. Which I can't say about anyone else. She's a remarkably talented woman.

And I haven't participated in this forum, so I can't speak to the Stevie fan vs. Christine fan thing.

[eclipse]

I admire them both-for different reasons...
I think it must have been INCREDIBLY difficult for Christine to have Stevie placed in front of her and asked...."OK you decide if she stays"...
That said..It must have been very difficult for Stevie, to feel wanted and needed in this band that her boyfriend had brought her along to....

I am sure that there are many stories that we will never know-but I have always felt like Christine liked being the only girl in FM..
then came Stevie...
That said, I think there was a large part of Chris that was happy to allow Stevie to soak up the limelight (while Chris dealth with John and her music and watched Stevie grow from a "singing in the shadows background /harmonizing singer" to...STEVIE
I think Chris has a lot of pride in helping Stevie become so "frontline"
But back in the day, it must have been a bit of a struggle for both girls.
have also read many articles that state that they liked each other immediately ...who knows?
(perhaps somewhere in the back of their minds, they knew that they would end up depending upon each other)....
more than their husbands/boyfriends/managers/ et al, ______fill in the blank
More, much more than we will ever know.

I think it is a great story , the story of Christine and Stephanie- and one that not many bands can associate with, maybe no other bands, for that matter....ahh the MAGIC of fleetwood mac...

God, I miss them:distress:

[Gailh]

I am speaking solely for myself here and not anyone else.

I do not dislike Stevie.

I do however have some issues with some Stevie fans who seem to think that Stevie is Fleetwood Mac and some of their remarks are downright rude "I am glad that Christine left so we can get back to what we all want - Buckingham Nicks" "Christine is ugly - fact"

Fleetwood Mac was a very popular band because of the chemistry between five very different people. IMO Say You Will lacked the balance (and the hits) that Christine provided.

Stevie has had the most solo success - good for her.

I prefer Christine's more understated music and her down to earth attitude.

Gail

[Johnny Stew]

I do however have some issues with some Stevie fans who seem to think that Stevie is Fleetwood Mac and some of their remarks are downright rude "I am glad that Christine left so we can get back to what we all want - Buckingham Nicks" "Christine is ugly - fact"Those types of remarks are rude and downright unfair, both to other fans and to Christine's innumerable contributions to Fleetwood Mac.
Having been around these parts for quite some time, I tend to think those comments (and we should point out that it is still a relatively few Nicks fans who make them) are a kneejerk reaction to the often downright rude and disgusting things other fans in the Mac camp say about Stevie (and her fans).
I guess it's that old "eye for an eye" thing.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not excusing it. I just think sometimes it's born more out of retaliation than out of the actual feelings of the people making the comments. If we could all respect each others' tastes, rather than stubbornly adhering to these strict "we're right -- you're wrong" stances, we'd better be able to discuss our opinions without it dissolving into grade-school antics.

[Gailh]

Having been around these parts for quite some time, I tend to think those comments (and we should point out that it is still a relatively few Nicks fans who make them) are a kneejerk reaction to the often downright rude and disgusting things other fans in the Mac camp say about Stevie (and her fans).
I guess it's that old "eye for an eye" thing.


I agree that we don't want to get into playground behaviour.

If the remarks of some Stevie fans are a kneejerk reaction to things said about them and Stevie then sometimes Christine's fans have kneejerk reactions as well. We do have to put up with cretins coming onto Christine's own website to slag her off. I know that we should behave as adults and ignore the little twerps and it's not necessarily anyone who posts on this website and it is a small minority of Stevie fans who do it but it does drive you round the bend at times.

We all have the right to free speech but with any right comes responsibility.

Here endeth the lesson!

Gail

[ragandbone]

Thanks for raising this question David. I have wondered, a little, about the animosity towards Stevie from some Christine fans, and it has seemed especially odd because I have never heard any nasty, or dismissive comments from Stevie about Christine, and rarely heard anything less than kind from Christine about Stevie. I think there are all sorts of valid reasons to prefer one singer/writer over the other, and loyalty towards Christine (who has not been given the swame attention as Stevie is laudable, but I don't understand the need to pit the two artists against each other, when they don't do that themselves.

Mostly, when I visit this forum, though, I hear interesting details about Christine, and great pics, and audio clips, I would never have otherwise seen, all presented thoughtfully, and with class, and little or nothing about Stevie, which is how it should be, IMO.

[Johnny Stew]

If the remarks of some Stevie fans are a kneejerk reaction to things said about them and Stevie then sometimes Christine's fans have kneejerk reactions as well. We do have to put up with cretins coming onto Christine's own website to slag her off.I absolutely agree that it's a two-way street.
I didn't know there are trolls who visit Christine's official forum to post nasty things about her, but I guess I should have realized that'd be the case, since there doesn't seem to be a single message board in existence that hasn't been bugged by trolls.

But trust me, those "Stevie Fans" (if they really even are Stevie fans, or if they're just using that guise to fuel the response to their antics) don't speak for the majority of Nicks fans. Maybe in days gone by it was a different story, but no longer.

You and me, Gail, we need to help foster good relations between the Christine & Stevie fancamps! Our ladies love and respect each other -- we should follow their lead.

[GypsySongbird]

You and me, Gail, we need to help foster good relations between the Christine & Stevie fancamps! Our ladies love and respect each other -- we should follow their lead.

totally agree!!! :D yaay for love and peace! phsycadelic........man.......:]


anyway we love christine and stevie!

[DavidMn]

I am speaking solely for myself here and not anyone else.

I do not dislike Stevie.

I do however have some issues with some Stevie fans who seem to think that Stevie is Fleetwood Mac and some of their remarks are downright rude "I am glad that Christine left so we can get back to what we all want - Buckingham Nicks" "Christine is ugly - fact"

Fleetwood Mac was a very popular band because of the chemistry between five very different people. IMO Say You Will lacked the balance (and the hits) that Christine provided.

Stevie has had the most solo success - good for her.

I prefer Christine's more understated music and her down to earth attitude.

GailI totally respect where youre coming from. ANd I do appreciate the civility in this thread so far.:nod: I wanted to pose the question as someone who doesnt really have a huge bias towards one or the other, but I was still worried that it would blow up in my face. I'm glad it hasnt and that people have understood that I'm not coming at it from the standpoint of someone whos trying to stir up trouble.

[Gailh]

I absolutely agree that it's a two-way street.
I didn't know there are trolls who visit Christine's official forum to post nasty things about her, but I guess I should have realized that'd be the case, since there doesn't seem to be a single message board in existence that hasn't been bugged by trolls.

You and me, Gail, we need to help foster good relations between the Christine & Stevie fancamps! Our ladies love and respect each other -- we should follow their lead.

There are maybe trolls who visit Stevie's own site purporting to be Christine fans just to stir up trouble - if so they too are little twerps who should be ignored.

Gail

[Dreamz19]

I want to make it very clear before I go any further that I am not trying to troll the Christine room here. That being said, I've noticed that some of Chris' fans particularly dislike Stevie, which is perfectly ok because it's a free country. However, I havent noticed as much venom directed towards Christine fans by Stevie fans as I have the opposite. Personally I enjoy both very much, it's one of the reasons I love Fleetwood Mac so much, cause theyre both there. I guess the question I have is why some of you feel so strongly about this? I'm not trying to incite anything, It's more out of curiosity thatn anything. And, please feel free to express your opiion any way you wish.:)

Very interesting thread. I am new to the board so I haven't really seen this here yet. But in times past I have seen both Stevie and Christine fans put the ladies down *on other boards and just in convo*

I first started liking FM because of Stevie and her songs. At first I didn't really give Christine her due. However, I quickly began to love Christine and appreciate her. It does bother me when I hear some say they are happy she wasn't on SYW because then Lindsey and Stevie would have more songs. Just like it bothers me when some put down Stevie. I just feel that both of these ladies are talented and equally play an important role in FM. I understand that not everyone is going to like Christine or Stevie but I think some can try to be respectful and not put them down about petty stuff.

Overall I think sometimes people will put down others just to prop up their favorites. You pretty much see that in anything where it appears to be some competition. Having them be the only women in the band it might seem like there is some competitiveness. I think that could be one of the many reasons. But I really don't think for a second Christine or Stevie see it that way. I hope I am making sense. It's a little hard to put it in words.

[Gailh]

Very interesting thread. I am new to the board so I haven't really seen this here yet. But in times past I have seen both Stevie and Christine fans put the ladies down *on other boards and just in convo*

I first started liking FM because of Stevie and her songs. At first I didn't really give Christine her due. However, I quickly began to love Christine and appreciate her. It does bother me when I hear some say they are happy she wasn't on SYW because then Lindsey and Stevie would have more songs. Just like it bothers me when some put down Stevie. I just feel that both of these ladies are talented and equally play an important role in FM. I understand that not everyone is going to like Christine or Stevie but I think some can try to be respectful and not put them down about petty stuff.

Overall I think sometimes people will put down others just to prop up their favorites. You pretty much see that in anything where it appears to be some competition. Having them be the only women in the band it might seem like there is some competitiveness. I think that could be one of the many reasons. But I really don't think for a second Christine or Stevie see it that way. I hope I am making sense. It's a little hard to put it in words.

I think both women got on well from the start. Stevie has said that Christine was like her big sister. I think Christine also felt that way - in the true sense of being sisters. Sometimes your little sister gets on your nerves! Sometimes your big sister bosses you around!

I don't know why we Christine fans feel the need to protect her, I cannot think of anyone less in need of protection than Christine McVie! She strikes me as being well able to look after herself!

I think it's probably that we feel that the attention Stevie gets is out of proportion. But hell that's life. I for one will continue to stick up for Christine if I feel she's being critisized unfairly without, I hope, critisizing Stevie unfairly in return.

Gail

[Dreamz19]

I think both women got on well from the start. Stevie has said that Christine was like her big sister. I think Christine also felt that way - in the true sense of being sisters. Sometimes your little sister gets on your nerves! Sometimes your big sister bosses you around!

I don't know why we Christine fans feel the need to protect her, I cannot think of anyone less in need of protection than Christine McVie! She strikes me as being well able to look after herself!

I think it's probably that we feel that the attention Stevie gets is out of proportion. But hell that's life. I for one will continue to stick up for Christine if I feel she's being critisized unfairly without, I hope, critisizing Stevie unfairly in return.

Gail

I could not agree more. I haven't been a fan for very long but after reading some of the interviews and seeing them together I never picked up anything but love and admiration between them. Although, I am a really big Stevie fan I also find myself defending Christine when I hear people downplay her contribution to the band. I have seen some Stevie bashing on here but since I am new I'll let it slide for now ;)

[JazmenFlowers]

you can't get away from the tsk tsk attitude of Stevie/FM/Christine fans...it's just human nature. that said, I agree that both Stevie and Christine are talented in their own way and have very different personalities. some just lean towards Stevie and some to Christine, depending on each person's tastes. it just happens that Stevie has more mass appeal, I guess. I like Stevie, but that doesn't mean I hate or dislike Christine or think she is any less talented; Stevie just touches me more with her work, image, etc. I don't think Stevie IS FM or FM IS Stevie or any of that...I think Stevie has a special place in FM that can't be filled or overlooked and so does Christine.

as far as remarks made by Stevie/Christine fans about Christine/Stevie, I defer to Stewy's remarks, as ITA.

[DestinyRules]

I think it's probably that we feel that the attention Stevie gets is out of proportion. But hell that's life. I for one will continue to stick up for Christine if I feel she's being critisized unfairly without, I hope, critisizing Stevie unfairly in return.
I've long said Christine was (and I still sometimes say "is") my second favourite member of Fleetwood Mac. I have great respect, admiration, and love for Christine and I think Say You Will suffered without her presence.

It frustrates me when people starting going on a Christine bashing campaign regardless of which "camp" they're in. I find I get my defences up almost as quickly for Christine as I do for Stevie. One of my best friends from my Burnish days (and the only one I stayed in consistent contact with for a long time) was a Christine fan. Of course, he also loves Stevie, but he's a Chris fan first. Then again, one of my biggest allies on that board was a Lindsey fan, but I digress...

If someone really is as talented and as worthy of admiration as we believe them to be, we shouldn't have to tear down other members of THE SAME BAND to elevate them in anyone else's eyes.

[aleuzzi]

Love em both! Why not embrace two entirely different performers with different songwriting styles?

I'm a much bigger Christine fan, but it wasn't always that way. When I was a kid (about 12) I loved Stevie's voice and presence--it's what largely drew me me to the band. I was a young, closeted gay kid who took her "Set your secrets free" slogan from the Rock a Little tour seriously. And I was addicted to the Gypsy video.

But I was never a big fan of Stevie on her own. And, as I got older, I became a bigger Chris fan. I liked her solid musicianship and no-nonsense attitude about making music. That was when I was about 14 and have never stopped...That voice...I could listen to it for hours.

Now that Chris is on her own, I listen to ITM ALL the time! But I'm almost equally floored by some of Stevie's contributions to Say You Will--particularly Illume, which taps into her incredibly unique, powerful, mysterious energy, an eneregy no one else has in rock.

As I said, I love em both!

[JazmenFlowers]

I liked her solid musicianship and no-nonsense attitude about making music.

But I'm almost equally floored by some of Stevie's contributions to Say You Will--particularly Illume, which taps into her incredibly unique, powerful, mysterious energy, an eneregy no one else has in rock.

As I said, I love em both!
that is a great way to put it. even though I'm a much bigger Stevie fan, I like them both.

[DavidMn]

that is a great way to put it. even though I'm a much bigger Stevie fan, I like them both.Good attitude sir!
:)

[JazmenFlowers]

Good attitude sir!
:)
what can I say? I'm in a giving mood today. :wavey:

[DavidMn]

what can I say? I'm in a giving mood today. :wavey:Sounds like your day is going good.
:cool:

[David]

I get pissy when people toss that word "bashing" around lightly. If someone says she thinks Christine is boring, some other prig usually jumps in self-righteously & screams, "You don't need to bash Chris just to prop up Stevie!" yadda yadda, when all that person did was admit that Christine bores her.

If I could just extirpate from people's thinking that illogical notion that all Fleetwood Mac fans have to like (or pretend to like so as not to upset sensitive souls) everything about Fleetwood Mac, I'd do so.

Saying you hate Christine, or Stevie, or "Time," or Bekka, or Peter, or Lindsey, or "Rumours," or "Kiln House," etc. etc., is not bashing!!! You don't have to like anything you don't happen to like. Just let people speak their minds, fer chrissake. It's a lot more important that forum users not insult one another (that to me is where moderators are really necessary) than that you have to worry about everyone who hates what you love about Fleetwood Mac or vice versa. When that oppressive, stifling, Soviet atmosphere descends over the forum--where everybody feels he'd better not criticize an album or a singer--it's a real drag. I love "Rumours," but I'd rather read someone who says she hates "Rumours" than someone who skirts around it & says she "appreciates" it even though she doesn't, or some other bloodless, phony remark.

P.S., aleuzzi, I liked your post!

[chiliD]

Saying you hate ..."Time,"...is not bashing!!!

Yes, it is. :mad:



















:lol: (sorry, couldn't hold it anymore)

[SteveMacD]

Stevie vs. Christine...

Honestly, I think the greatest thing about the whole "Rumours" band is that the three singers balanced each other out. I hate to say this, but I find it hard to listen to most Stevie solo albums, "In The Meantime," and all of Lindsey's solo albums all the way through. Stevie's albums get too etherial, "In The Meantime" is too bland, and Lindsey's solo albums are too off the wall. "Bella Donna" and "Christine McVie" are exceptions, probably because there was so much input from others (i.e. Tom Petty, Don Henley, Steve Winwood) that the albums had a "band" feel to them. While I personally prefer Christine's vibe over Stevie's, I still think Stevie is an amazing talent.

Why the rub with some fans? I think many Stevie fans have overstated her importance to the band (or, maybe even pop culture) over the years and treat her as being more than just a rock singer. Sometimes, these particular fans begin to overstate things to a point where facts do not necessarily back up their opinions. I think that more than anything has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

[David]

Why the rub with some fans? I think many Stevie fans have overstated her importance to the band (or, maybe even pop culture) over the years and treat her as being more than just a rock singer. Sometimes, these particular fans begin to overstate things to a point where facts do not necessarily back up their opinions. I think that more than anything has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.I think it's a personality clash--not between Stevie & Christine but between Stevie fans & Christine fans. Both camps just use their respective idols as fronts, but they're red herrings. Each side hates the other side's characteristics & personality traits. It's not like the split between the side for the blues rock years of F. Mac & the side for the pop rock years of F. Mac--that's based overwhelmingly on the music differences. But today's animosity is an animosity based on hatred, disgust, scoffery & utter dismissal.

I think that's healthy!

As Frank Lentricchia once said (about the Avignonish infallibility of the Yale Mafia in literary studies), "Teach the conflict!"

[jbrownsjr]

hmmmm

I guess my question is why do you care what the other camp thinks... It's art and very subjective..... so speak your mind... bash criticize if you want... give your opinion all you want...

Because nobody can tell me what to think or say about either one of these great women. I love talking about Stevie here and Christine in the other forum. It's fun... :) I think Stevie sounds like a goat sometimes, and I think Christine is boring sometimes... so what.. I love them.... And I want to marry both of them!!

[David]

hmmmm

I guess my question is why do you care what the other camp thinks... It's art and very subjective..... so speak your mind... bash criticize if you want... give your opinion all you want...

Because nobody can tell me what to think or say about either one of these great women. I love talking about Stevie here and Christine in the other forum. It's fun... :) I think Stevie sounds like a goat sometimes, and I think Christine is boring sometimes... so what.. I love them.... And I want to marry both of them!!Okay, jb, but what if there's like a Robert Altman/Nashville situation one day, & the crazed fans of one of them assassinates the idol of the other side? Wouldn't that be sad? if crazed Christine fans assassinated Stevie? or if crazed Stevie fans assassinated Christine? Then you'd have blood & extremely bad vibes all around. :(

Somebody needs to step in ..... NOW! & prevent this potential tragedy.

[jbrownsjr]

Okay, jb, but what if there's like a Robert Altman/Nashville situation one day, & the crazed fans of one of them assassinates the idol of the other side? Wouldn't that be sad? if crazed Christine fans assassinated Stevie? or if crazed Stevie fans assassinated Christine? Then you'd have blood & extremely bad vibes all around. :(

Somebody needs to step in ..... NOW! & prevent this potential tragedy.

oh **** ur right!!! where the hell is homer :(

[Johnny Stew]

where the hell is homer :(Lurking around Paradise Valley with a rifle.

[carrie721]

Lurking around Paradise Valley with a rifle.

i totally just snorted. :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

i totally just snorted. :laugh:

i recently snorted when meeting someone for the first time... ugh! :laugh: :distress:

[SteveMacD]

Stevie stopped snorting in 1987, and Mick in 1995.

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie stopped snorting in 1987, and Mick in 1995.


no wonder Time was so good... he stopped snorting!!!

[HomerMcvie]

oh **** ur right!!! where the hell is homer :(
For the zillionth time, I have MUCH more of a problem with her army, than the general herself.:wavey:

[Gailh]

For the zillionth time, I have MUCH more of a problem with her army, than the general herself.:wavey:


Yup me too (but only a small proportion of them)

Gail

[DavidMn]

For the zillionth time, I have MUCH more of a problem with her army, than the general herself.:wavey:I was wondering when youd show up in this thread.
:wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

I was wondering when youd show up in this thread.
:wavey:
I've been avoiding it like the plague!!!!


Better late than never, I guess...

[jbrownsjr]

I've been avoiding it like the plague!!!!


Better late than never, I guess...

there's no stopping him

[HomerMcvie]

there's no stopping him
Troublemaker!












:wavey:

[jbrownsjr]

Troublemaker!












:wavey:

i wonder how many regulars got that reference...

[David]

i wonder how many regulars got that reference...
I did, but I guess not everybody did. Homie, did you get it?

[macfan 57]

i wonder how many regulars got that reference...

I think I did.;)

[becca]

I wonder if people into Abba take sides over Agnetha and Ani-Frida? Personally it took me twenty five years just to remember which was which. :D

Hmm, there are a lot of similarities to Fleetwood Mac... two couples, both peaked in the mid '70s... sales records makers... both wrote good songs about birds (Eagle and Albatross)... um, a blonde and a brunette... WACK! (That was from Stevie fans) :D

[jbrownsjr]

I think I did.;)

i would think u would get it for sure!!! :shocked: