Please, Say You Will

[Sliztzan]

I'm feeling Drawn Down (pun intended) to Say You Will. Don't you feel the masterpiece? :xoxo:

[HomerMcvie]

I'm feeling Drawn Down (pun intended) to Say You Will. Don't you feel the masterpiece? :xoxo:
i Say I Won't....







SYW's okay, if you don't mind it being tooooo long, a few too many clunker songs, and no Christine.

[Sliztzan]

i Say I Won't....


SYW's okay, if you don't mind it being tooooo long, a few too many clunker songs, and no Christine.

Tusk spoiler. Listen....listen.
Let them do their stuff :P Not just second hand news.

[Sahara]

Don't you feel the masterpiece? :xoxo:

Hell yeah. :nod:

[Lala]

I like it.
Although I think I went through a stage where I listened to it a little too much, since I haven't listened to it recently.
Still, there's something smooth and easy to listen to about it.
Of course, its sound comes closer to Out of The Cradle/Gift of Screws than anything FM put out prior. Still good.

[DrummerDeanna]

Masterpiece? No. Good album? Sure.

I like it ok - there are songs I skip *coughsilvergirlcough* but all in all it's an ok album. It's upbeat enough for me to listen to when I work out -so I enjoy that.

But sadly the damn cd never wants to play in my car -and that's where I do most of my listening :\

[JazmenFlowers]

Masterpiece? No. Good album? Sure.
that's how I feel. it does, though, have some masterful cuts on it. Goodbye Baby, Everybody Finds Out, Say Goodbye...if the album had been full of these type songs it would have been a masterpiece. and I like Silver Girl...I don't get all the hate on that song. not saying you Deanna, but some people I think just jumped on the bandwagon and probably don't really dislike it. same as WISYA...it's just easier to not like that like.

anyway, I like it and listen to it on occasion, but I think it could have been better.

[cliffdweller]

It's upbeat enough for me to listen to when I work out -so I enjoy that.

oooh, me too! It's my favorite workout album. The Wild Heart is my second fave.

[DrummerDeanna]

oooh, me too! It's my favorite workout album. The Wild Heart is my second fave.


ooh...never tried Wild Heart - but now I will add that to my gym music repetoire! I just hate the crap they play at the gym -so I've always got either cd player or mp3 player in tow :D

[TomBanks147]

Best album ever made.

[HomerMcvie]

Best album ever made.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TomBanks147]

No really, it is.

Off course it all comes down to opinion. SYW is how I got into the Mac and its better than any other Mac album for me personally and its definatly in my top 5 favourite albums ever (Oasis, Beatles etc also belong there so its hard to pick a particular album).

I don't see why its funny though. I personally LOVE it.

[wondergirl9847]

If you think it's the greatest album ever made, that's cool. :thumbsup:

I love the album. It would be perfect to me if not for a couple of tunes. Those being...Silver Girl and WTWCT (I like it, but it's not a fave). I love every other song to death.

[Gailh]

I like it although I really miss Christine on it (needs her balance IMO)

I've always said it's too long by about 4 songs.

Gail

[HomerMcvie]

No really, it is.

Off course it all comes down to opinion. SYW is how I got into the Mac and its better than any other Mac album for me personally and its definatly in my top 5 favourite albums ever (Oasis, Beatles etc also belong there so its hard to pick a particular album).

I don't see why its funny though. I personally LOVE it.
Well, it's funny that the record buying public didn't think it was the GREATEST ALBUM EVER. Especially when you stack it up against the 23? million selling Rumours, or the avant-garde, critic's darling Tusk. And I'd bet you that 98%+ of Ledgie's wouldn't say it's the greatest album ever. How could the GREATEST ALBUM EVER have Silver Girl on it?
Hell, I like TIME more that SYW!


But, if SYW works for you, mo powa 2 u!

[BTFLCHLD]

It is my favorite FM "album" to date.

[amber]

It is my favorite FM "album" to date.

Did you just imply by omission that TUSK isn't your favorite album??? :mad:
Everyone must love TUSK most. I have mandated it, and I am the Decider.

:laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

*does the Say You Will dance* in honor of this amazing album.

[David]

Did you just imply by omission that TUSK isn't your favorite album??? :mad:
Everyone must love TUSK most. I have mandated it, and I am the Decider.Now don't shoot, but I like "Rumours" the best. That's really the one that does it for me. :thumbsup:

[JazmenFlowers]

Now don't shoot, but I like "Rumours" the best. That's really the one that does it for me. :thumbsup:
me too. it's the best album as a whole, imo. every song on that album is perfection.

[SortaSavageLike]

me too. it's the best album as a whole, imo. every song on that album is perfection.

Rumours would be way more popular if it wasn't so popular.

Yes, that makes sense if you think about it for a bit.

[JazmenFlowers]

Rumours would be way more popular if it wasn't so popular.

Yes, that makes sense if you think about it for a bit.
maybe in your head, my friend. :p

[cliffdweller]

Hell, I like TIME more that SYW!

Again, a matter of taste. I'm sure the 23 million people who bought Rumours (using the rhetorical maneuver you used in your post) wouldn't agree with this assessment, so :shrug:.

The point? It doesn't matter what 23 million people think---if you love it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread then knock yourself out. Numbers don't equal truth.

[danax6]

If you take out Silver Girl, it's a pretty frickin' good album. However, Tusk remains my all time favourite, nothing beats that beauty. After Tusk, I don't think I can even rank them, they are all equally great and enjoyable, so it's like picking your favourite children. Except for Behind the Mask and Time. Those two are the milkman's kids.

[shackin'up]

.... the avant-garde, critic's darling Tusk.

to h*ll with critics. It's my darling. And SYW is the closest ting to Tusk FM has ever made. TIME???:eek:
second hand toiletpaper.

[Mari]

Actually, I like Gift Of Screws more.

[DavidMn]

I'll leave at this. personally, its one of my favorite Fleetwood Mac albums, probably behind only Tusk.:nod:

[Angel69]

If you take out Silver Girl, it's a pretty frickin' good album. However, Tusk remains my all time favourite, nothing beats that beauty. After Tusk, I don't think I can even rank them, they are all equally great and enjoyable, so it's like picking your favourite children. Except for Behind the Mask and Time. Those two are the milkman's kids.

I couldn't even adopt Time from the shelter.

[DavidMn]

I couldn't even adopt Time from the shelter.Badump-Bump. Goodnight ladies and gentleman!:lol:

[foxyluva]

SYW is my thrid favourite behind "Rumours" & "Tusk" - the only problems is the album IS too long, and it is filled up with stuff that would have been better suited for Lindsey to leave for a solo venture - tracks like "Murow" and "Come" are so un-fleetwood mac. That doesn't mean that they are not great tracks, i just don't think they work as Fleetwood Mac :shrug:

[gypsysoul]

SYW is currently ensconsed in my CD player in the car. I don't think it's a classic like Rumours whereby no matter how many times you hear it you still feel a tingle down the spine. But I think it's a great album from a band at this stage in their career.
The only two tracks I skip regularly are Running through the Garden and Silver Girl. And yes, Christine would have balanced it a bit more.

[Serrart]

It is my favorite FM "album" to date.

It's my favourite FM album too. Tusk is a close second, but Say you Will is sharper and the off balance pattern makes it less reassuring but more contemporary and intriguing for me.

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

For me, 'Say You Will' takes all of the things I love best about 'Rumours,' 'Tusk' and 'Tango In The Night,' and then updates them for the new millennium.

Easily one of my all-time favorite Mac albums. :nod:

[GypsySorcerer]

I enjoy Say You Will. As far as ranking it is concerned, it's somewhere in the middle of the pack. Tusk will always be my favorite. Perfection!

[strandinthewind]

For me, 'Say You Will' takes all of the things I love best about 'Rumours,' 'Tusk' and 'Tango In The Night,' and then updates them for the new millennium.

Easily one of my all-time favorite Mac albums. :nod:

Mine is Mirage - in the minority I know - but so be it!!!!!!

As for SYW - the record lacked, for me, a cohesive feel - though some songs truly shine. I do like the record though.

[GypsySorcerer]

Mine is Mirage - in the minority I know - but so be it!!!!!!


I have always felt Mirage was a tad underrated. I love Stevie's material. Lindsey's too (except for the horrific "Empire State."). Chris' is okay.

[carrie721]

I have always felt Mirage was a tad underrated. I love Stevie's material. Lindsey's too (except for the horrific "Empire State."). Chris' is okay.

funny, i love stevie's and chris's material on mirage but can't stand lindsey's for the most part. yeah, empire state - yikes!

[HomerMcvie]

to h*ll with critics. It's my darling. And SYW is the closest ting to Tusk FM has ever made. TIME???:eek:
second hand toiletpaper.
My friend, I'm sorry, for the error in your judgement...(on both counts).....

[cliffdweller]

As for SYW - the record lacked, for me, a cohesive feel - though some songs truly shine. I do like the record though.

I agree although I think most of the songs "shine." There are only a handful that I skip past: Bleed To Love Her (never liked this one), Silver Girl, Peacekeeper, and SYW. I just got sick of the last two, they're not bad songs in their own right.

[David]

I agree although I think most of the songs "shine." There are only a handful that I skip past: Bleed To Love Her (never liked this one), Silver Girl, Peacekeeper, and SYW. I just got sick of the last two, they're not bad songs in their own right.To me, the songs on SYW are as good as all the other FM songs on the other albums, but I just don't enjoy listening to the album because of the way it sounds, the sonics of it. My theory is that, just like the army of backups ruins the sonic environment of the stage show, the army of production & engineering guys who did SYW ****ed that one up--or "updated" the sonics so that the style simulates today's semiunderground hits, possibly (or Reprise's idea of "viable" music). The other theory I have is that Lindsey, with age, has lost his keen ear & his instincts for crafting the best possible sound & presentation for each track. The Fleetwood Mac "gleam" seems to have dulled, even though the songwriters are still writing good material.

[amber]

^^^

Along those lines. Yesterday I was thinking about this album, and although I think it is really good, and like it a lot, I can't see listening to it as much as the others. Most of the songs are extremely crowded, and therefore don't highlight what I love most about the mac - vocals, and harmonies. Any harmonies are buried under huge layers of sound that fuzzes everything together, so that nothing sounds distinctive. It's ridiculous that those two singers sang so many "separate" songs on this album. Yes, I do realize they were singing on each other's songs, but to no great effect, IMO.
However - though the sound buries, I also really like the music. I think some of it is very interesting, notably Murrow and Red Rover. And I like most of the rest.
It all should've just been managed a little better, with a bit of a lighter touch and more space in many of the songs. A couple of Stevie's songs have more space, but sadly I don't like those quite as much (excepting Goodbye Baby, which I think is good with "just" her voice). However, I'm sure I would like them a lot more if Lindsey had devised some fab harmony to sing with her, and cut the band back a bit. Her voice now just isn't quite compelling enough to make me like so many songs sung solo for the most part. :shrug: but when she sings with Lindsey or others, she sounds amazing still.

I'm not a musician, so I can't really get into production and things like that, this is just an opinion about what I hear as the overall sound.
Still and all, I think it is a pretty great album.

[JazmenFlowers]

seriously people, what's wrong with Silver Girl? :shrug: it is inching on taking over Everybody Finds Out and Goodbye Baby as my favorite on the album. I freaking love it.

if you want to hate on a track, I'll give you 1...hell, I'll give you 2...Smile At You and RTTG - god, they ruined 2 of my favorite demos.

[chiliD]

At this point, the only song on SYW that just makes me want to projectile vomit is "Running Through The Garden". I've started to appreciate both "Come" & "Silver Girl" in recent listens. I liked the rest of the album right off. (especially since I'd already heard most of Lindsey's tunes for about a year or so before the album was released)

TIME???:eek: second hand toiletpaper.


{heavy sigh} :distress: :(

Some people just never learn. And, he wonders why people insult him. It's almost laughable if it weren't so pathetic

[cliffdweller]

^^^

Along those lines. Yesterday I was thinking about this album, and although I think it is really good, and like it a lot, I can't see listening to it as much as the others. Most of the songs are extremely crowded, and therefore don't highlight what I love most about the mac - vocals, and harmonies. Any harmonies are buried under huge layers of sound that fuzzes everything together, so that nothing sounds distinctive.

While this may be true, I think that absence of Chris's 3rd vocal layer on top of that two-part harmony is a big contributor to the diminshed Mac harmony you're talking about :nod:. It's glaringly obvious that Chris is absent and the vocals suffer for it.

[amber]

While this may be true, I think that absence of Chris's 3rd vocal layer on top of that two-part harmony is a big contributor to the diminshed Mac harmony you're talking about :nod:. It's glaringly obvious that Chris is absent and the vocals suffer for it.
Yeah, they would've been nice in some spots, but if the fact that Chris wasn't there is what stopped those two from singing harmonies together, and making them more prominent, that is really retarded. I mean, it's not like they don't sound great together, and surely they know that. If they've heard Buckingham Nicks. :laugh: (yes, a joke, I realize that was long ago. But still!).
If what you are saying is that all the harmonies didn't sound as good b/c of the lack of Chris, I'd have to disagree. Again, Chris would have been nice, but I also think it would have been nice with just LB and SN, had they done the songs differently. Just look at how beautiful BC was on the last tour. :shrug:

[GypsySorcerer]

seriously people, what's wrong with Silver Girl? :shrug: it is inching on taking over Everybody Finds Out and Goodbye Baby as my favorite on the album. I freaking love it.

if you want to hate on a track, I'll give you 1...hell, I'll give you 2...Smile At You and RTTG - god, they ruined 2 of my favorite demos.

I've never thought Silver Girl was as clunky as people say. :shrug: I have to disagree about Smile at You, though. I like it on the album, and of course I love the demo, too.

[cliffdweller]

If what you are saying is that all the harmonies didn't sound as good b/c of the lack of Chris, I'd have to disagree. Again, Chris would have been nice, but I also think it would have been nice with just LB and SN, had they done the songs differently. Just look at how beautiful BC was on the last tour. :shrug:

This made me wonder...is Stevie on the "Ooooh-woooo-oooooooh's" on the chorus of "To Steal Your Heart Away" or is that just Chris and Lindsey? 'Cause I love the harmonies on this song, I would say that they're my favorite on the album, but I don't think they're all doing a 3-part harmony in this song at any point at the same time. Do they all do the "to steal your heart away's" together or again, is that just Lindsey and Chris? I know Stevie does the "to steal your heart away" outro verses...:confused:

Back to your post though ^^^, I think Chris's harmony creates a richer, warmer, lusher sound for the band than just Stevie's and Lindsey's tinny harmonies together. Don't get me wrong, I do like their harmonizing a lot, and especially on the Buckingham/Nicks stuff, I just think "the Fleetwood Mac sound" is that quintessential 3-part harmony that is really hard to duplicate with just two voices. So, on SYW, when it's just Stevie and Lindsey, that's what makes me think of this album as a "Buckingham/Nicks" album. When I hear those two voices harmonizing together it takes me back to B.N.! It doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me without Chris, it feels like a Buckingham Nicks album which isn't a bad thing, it's just not signature Mac, ya know? :shrug:

[amber]

^^^

Okay. :shrug: I wouldn't label it that way (as Not FM, but as BN) but feel free. I don't really feel the loss terribly. Or, rather, I like them equally. I would just call them both Mac. Semantics.
My point was, Stevie and Lindsey should have done a lot more together vocally. Chris or not. And I don't think they sound tinny.
And I don't know if Stevie is singing on that. Like I said before, the music drowns out and fuzzes a lot of the vocals for me.

[BombaySapphire3]

Say You Will reminds me of a decent Buckingham and Nicks solo album cobbled together randomly without the cohesion of the 1973 Buckingham/Nicks LP .Although I think Christine is too bland as a solo artist ,SYW demonstrates that they need her as much as she needs Fleetwood Mac.Tusk to me ,like a lot of other hard core fans. is their shining hour after that the fragile chemistry kind of went down the crapper IMO resurfacing only in fragments and only on albums in which Buckingham was involved.

[cliffdweller]

My point was, Stevie and Lindsey should have done a lot more together vocally. Chris or not. And I don't think they sound tinny.


Maybe not so much on SYW, but go back and listen to the B.N. album! Maybe it's just the quality of my c.d., but they sound tinnnnnnay on that! I still like it though, I think it's a great album :shrug:.

[amber]

Maybe not so much on SYW, but go back and listen to the B.N. album! Maybe it's just the quality of my c.d., but they sound tinnnnnnay on that! I still like it though, I think it's a great album :shrug:.
Tey are a bit more tinny, there, but that was Stevie's voice 36 years and a million packs of cigs ago. Although, I would certainly trade that sound and fluidity and range for what we have now. But, I think her voice fills up a lot more "gaps" now. Ie, it doesn't sound tinny.

[cliffdweller]

Tey are a bit more tinny, there, but that was Stevie's voice 36 years and a million packs of cigs ago. Although, I would certainly trade that sound and fluidity and range for what we have now. But, I think her voice fills up a lot more "gaps" now. Ie, it doesn't sound tinny.

Oh definately, but it's still tinnier in quality than Chris's, although Chris's voice has deepened into a near baritone these days, so that's not saying much :shrug::laugh:.

J/K about the Chris jab, don't slander me Homer!

[amber]

Oh definately, but it's still tinnier in quality than Chris's, although Chris's voice has deepened into a near baritone these days, so that's not saying much :shrug::laugh:.

J/K about the Chris jab, don't slander me Homer!
I disagree about her voice being less tinny than theirs. Obviously the combination of the three is much less tinny. Actually, maybe "tinny" isn't the right word for Chris' voice. There's something cold about it (not in a bad way). IMO. Sometimes it sounds very warm, though.

[Sliztzan]

Masterpiece? No. Good album? Sure.

I like it ok - there are songs I skip *coughsilvergirlcough* but all in all it's an ok album. It's upbeat enough for me to listen to when I work out -so I enjoy that.

But sadly the damn cd never wants to play in my car -and that's where I do most of my listening :\

Try making a copy of the CD. Then it might work in your car. :)

Also, the copy I have is DVD Audio, so the sound is awesome compared to standard CD. So its not really a fair comparision, since it is a major difference in the mix and sound quality. It is very long, which is something to take in cosideration when listening to. It's amazing accomplishment for FM at this time in their career. I have skipped through some tracks...maybe it's one to listen to part of it and save the other for another time. I think thats a fair statement.

[Sliztzan]

I like it although I really miss Christine on it (needs her balance IMO)

I've always said it's too long by about 4 songs.

Gail

The addition of Christine would have been so nice. I love her songs.

[Sliztzan]

Well, it's funny that the record buying public didn't think it was the GREATEST ALBUM EVER. Especially when you stack it up against the 23? million selling Rumours, or the avant-garde, critic's darling Tusk. And I'd bet you that 98%+ of Ledgie's wouldn't say it's the greatest album ever. How could the GREATEST ALBUM EVER have Silver Girl on it?
Hell, I like TIME more that SYW!


But, if SYW works for you, mo powa 2 u!

You should hear the DVD Audio.

[Sliztzan]

If you take out Silver Girl, it's a pretty frickin' good album. However, Tusk remains my all time favourite, nothing beats that beauty. After Tusk, I don't think I can even rank them, they are all equally great and enjoyable, so it's like picking your favourite children. Except for Behind the Mask and Time. Those two are the milkman's kids.

I agree. Tusk is the ultimate Mac...even defeating Rumors, (I think fans would say) though I thought I read it wasn't as big in sales as Rumors. But then, I'm not a bean counter and never will be. :p

[Sliztzan]

^^^

Along those lines. Yesterday I was thinking about this album, and although I think it is really good, and like it a lot, I can't see listening to it as much as the others. Most of the songs are extremely crowded, and therefore don't highlight what I love most about the mac - vocals, and harmonies. Any harmonies are buried under huge layers of sound that fuzzes everything together, so that nothing sounds distinctive. It's ridiculous that those two singers sang so many "separate" songs on this album. Yes, I do realize they were singing on each other's songs, but to no great effect, IMO.
However - though the sound buries, I also really like the music. I think some of it is very interesting, notably Murrow and Red Rover. And I like most of the rest.

For the good ear you have for music, treat yourself to the DVD-Audio of SYW. Your in for a treat. :thumbsup:

[amber]

For the good ear you have for music, treat yourself to the DVD-Audio of SYW. Your in for a treat. :thumbsup:
:)
Would love to. But what if my DVD player speakers are crappy? Which they are, and I broke the bass speaker, so there is no bass speaker. I just play DVD's on my computer, I don't have a player.
Hey, aren't you the one who always talks about DVD Audios and how good they are? I didn't really know what they are, exactly - or rather, why they are different. :confused:

[Sliztzan]

:)
Would love to. But what if my DVD player speakers are crappy? Which they are, and I broke the bass speaker, so there is no bass speaker. I just play DVD's on my computer, I don't have a player.
Hey, aren't you the one who always talks about DVD Audios and how good they are? I didn't really know what they are, exactly - or rather, why they are different. :confused:

Don't bother with it then. And... I'm not the one, and don't even think I am. (tusk) and I know it. lmao

But, if you have the bucks the sound is awesome. You'll Never Forget.

[amber]

Don't bother with it then. And... I'm not the one, and don't even think I am. (tusk) and I know it. lmao

But, if you have the bucks the sound is awesome. You'll Never Forget.

Where do you get them? Are they just in regular stores where you buy CD's, and I've missed them? Are they expensive?
Nice Tusk pun. :p

[carrie721]

Don't bother with it then. And... I'm not the one, and don't even think I am. (tusk) and I know it. lmao

But, if you have the bucks the sound is awesome. You'll Never Forget.

i heard dvd-audio was a lame, antiquated format ... :sorry:

[amber]

i heard dvd-audio was a lame, antiquated format ... :sorry:

You're a lame antiquated format!












:laugh:

[carrie721]

You're a lame antiquated format!












:laugh:

what, you wanna start something? because i'm more than willing to drive 3000 miles so we can take this outside! :lol: :lol: :lol:

of course, my car probably would only make it to illinois ...

[Sliztzan]

Where do you get them? Are they just in regular stores where you buy CD's, and I've missed them? Are they expensive?
Nice Tusk pun. :p

Harder to find that regular CD unless your in a big city. If I can't find them local at Borders Books or Barnes and Noble I'll pick them up online. You can search for DVD-A or DVD Audio and the name of the disc. There is more online than in stores. I've bought a few at http://www.towerrecords.com/music/default.aspx
I use to live in Richmond, Virginia and could always count on them to have what I wanted. However, they don't have a store local in Virginia Beach. FYE.com has them sometimes.

By the way, Ignore that person in the antiquated curtain below or above this post. :wavey:

[carrie721]

^^^ hey! i will not be ignored!

i'm not trying to be an imp or anything, i read somewhere that dvd-a sucks. i'm trying to find where i read that ...

[HomerMcvie]

Best Buy had the Rumours DVD-A for quite awhile.

[Sliztzan]

^^^ hey! i will not be ignored!

i'm not trying to be an imp or anything, i read somewhere that dvd-a sucks. i'm trying to find where i read that ...

I'm not a salesman babe, only passing the vibe.

[amber]

I'm not a salesman babe, only passing the vibe.

:laugh: :laugh:

Carrie, you're ruining the flow of the vibe!

Thanks for the link. I live in a big city, and next to a big city, so I should be able to find one if I want.

[carrie721]

I'm not a salesman babe, only passing the vibe.

huh?

really, stud, don't call me "babe."

[amber]

huh?

really, stud, don't call me "babe."

Damn, I thought that was funny! :(

[carrie721]

Damn, I thought that was funny! :(

eh, sometimes things get lost in translation online. :wavey:

[amber]

eh, sometimes things get lost in translation online. :wavey:

Imagine him saying it like Spicoli.

[carrie721]

Imagine him saying it like Spicoli.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

ok, you should probably tell me to put this vanilla yogurt away ...

[amber]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

ok, you should probably tell me to put this vanilla yogurt away ...

See, it's funnier now!

No way, I love vanilla yogurt. At least you aren't eating ice cream. I assume it's fat free? Eat it! EAT IT!

[carrie721]

See, it's funnier now!

No way, I love vanilla yogurt. At least you aren't eating ice cream. I assume it's fat free? Eat it! EAT IT!

yeah, it's fat free. i'm starting a new diet. yikes.

[Sliztzan]

huh?

really, stud, don't call me "babe."

ok "biatch"

[amber]

yeah, it's fat free. i'm starting a new diet. yikes.

Me, too. I'm starting it right now with brie and rosemary crackers.

Okay, we can't foodjack another thread.
Good luck with the diet! Don't forget to exercise a real lot. Do weights, too.

[carrie721]

ok "biatch"

much better!! :laugh:

[Sliztzan]

much better!! :laugh:
please give me a intro

[carrie721]

please give me a intro

hmm? i don't know what you mean.

[amber]

hmm? i don't know what you mean.

Yeah, me neither.

[carrie721]

Yeah, me neither.

maybe he meant "give me nitro," like nitrous oxide. :woohoo:

... or nitro glycerine!

[shackin'up]

{heavy sigh} :distress: :(

Some people just never learn. And, he wonders why people insult him. Nobody has ever insulted me over here. Only one. But I don't report to moderators if I can't win.
It's almost laughable if it weren't so pathetic. The only thing that's laughable and pathetic is TIME. That record did not deserve FM's name.

[chiliD]

Let it go, Gerald. You crossed the line, you got reported. Live up to your mistake.

[shackin'up]

Let it go, Gerald. You crossed the line, you got reported. Live up to your mistake.

I did. And asked you to come clean with me. You insulted me in a PM and you can put new life into me posting if you do so. I still think I was highly funny, though naughty. I deleted my post BEFORE being moderated. Now you "delete" your gross PM and we can cross swords again. I've been an adult in this after my adolescent joke. You reported me and never came clean with your own insulting post and PM. Be an adult sir. I feel like fighting again.

[Angel69]

I did. And asked you to come clean with me. You insulted me in a PM and you can put new life into me posting if you do so. I still think I was highly funny, though naughty. I deleted my post BEFORE being moderated. Now you "delete" your gross PM and we can cross swords again. I've been an adult in this after my adolescent joke. You reported me and never came clean with your own insulting post and PM. Be an adult sir. I feel like fighting again.

Why were you reported to the moderators?

[Angel69]

Let it go, Gerald. You crossed the line, you got reported. Live up to your mistake.

What was his mistake?

[shackin'up]

Why were you reported to the moderators?

I made a naughty, but funny joke concerning him, his ventilated anti-lindseyattitude in a lindsey-appreciationthread, and the fact he himself plays a Turner model one. I can't repeat it because it will cost me a yellow card. But believe me, it hit his pride, so I deleted it, but alot of people over here could have grinned about it.

[HomerMcvie]

Now boys, we're friends here. A mistake was made. Big deal. Let's suck it up, and move on. How 'bout it?:angel:
I'm buying the first round!:thumbsup:

[Angel69]

I made a naughty, but funny joke concerning him, his ventilated anti-lindseyattitude in a lindsey-appreciationthread, and the fact he himself plays a Turner model one. I can't repeat it because it will cost me a yellow card. But believe me, it hit his pride, so I deleted it, but alot of people over here could have grinned about it.

Thanks I was curious to know what the fuss was all about. Dont repeat it I would hate to see a yellow card issued to you.

[Angel69]

Now boys, we're friends here. A mistake was made. Big deal. Let's suck it up, and move on. How 'bout it?:angel:
I'm buying the first round!:thumbsup:

This wouldn't be the same round which resulted in Stevie being called a whore would it?

[HomerMcvie]

This wouldn't be the same round which resulted in Stevie being called a whore would it?
Maybe I think of Steve and Gerald as friends. Is that okay with you?








BTW, I hear they're giving away toys over at Seven Wonders!:D

[Angel69]

Maybe I think of Steve and Gerald as friends. Is that okay with you?








BTW, I hear they're giving away toys over at Seven Wonders!:D

Splendid. Especially for Gerald. I have enough toys for everybody.

[David]

The only thing that's laughable and pathetic is TIME. That record did not deserve FM's name.That's okay if you don't like it, shack. Lots of people don't like it. It's really no big deal who likes it & who doesn't like it. But here's how I feel about it (& as you know I'm a keen fan of the studio popcraft years of Fleetwood Mac): "Time" has a number of elements that are also found in the Mac albums I love so much, including a very clean, clear sonic environment, thanks probably to Richard Dashut, some very charming classic-retro Christine McVie ballads, some excellent drumming & bass that reminds me a lot more of Mick & John's glory years than their work on "Behind the Mask" (or at least the way they were recorded & engineered), & a refreshing absence of that self-important, lugubrious quality, that heaviness, that muddled up the "Behind the Mask" album--with its producer who had no clue how to record this particular band. (He must have thought Fleetwood Mac needed to sound like Rick Springfield, the way Rupert Hine thought Stevie Nicks needed to sound like the Fixx or Richard Marx.)

It's just hard for me to grasp how someone can love "Rumours" & the white album but still completely hate "Time." I can understand someone's not liking the new singers, the new songwriters or the lack of various elements (such as an experimental side) that were no longer a force in the band. But "Time" still shares several elements from the older days that are up front & undeniable!

[wondergirl9847]

I think the reason that Time is not liked much is because people didn't connect with the people in the band at that time. Stevie and Lindsey connected with folks. Dave Mason, Billy and Bekka are all fine on their own, but in FM...there wasn't really a connection, I don't think. :shrug:

You can poo-poo it all you want, but the Rumours era FM is...magic. Plain and simple. :) I'm not taking away from the pre-Rumours eras by saying that because I LOVE that music too, but I cannot, with a straight face say that Rumours-era FM didn't have the fire-hot spark.

[shackin'up]

Now boys, we're friends here. A mistake was made. Big deal. Let's suck it up, and move on. How 'bout it?:angel:
I'm buying the first round!:thumbsup:

If you swallowed the first big beer at the moment I repeated my "mistake"" you'd spread the heavenly liquid all over the place my friend. THAT's for sure.

But Chili called me a d*ckless psycho wuss in his response and ,although it's quite an accurate description, the only thing I want is that he pulls that back in a post or a PM. That's all. I pulled my joke back after an hour and a half by deleting it. I am receiving PM's from other ledgies now who ask me to post more often, so I came out to try to solve this. It really killed my hunger to post here for quite a while.

cheers, mate.

[shackin'up]

That's okay if you don't like it, shack. Lots of people don't like it. It's really no big deal who likes it & who doesn't like it. But here's how I feel about it (& as you know I'm a keen fan of the studio popcraft years of Fleetwood Mac): "Time" has a number of elements that are also found in the Mac albums I love so much, including a very clean, clear sonic environment, thanks probably to Richard Dashut, some very charming classic-retro Christine McVie ballads, some excellent drumming & bass that reminds me a lot more of Mick & John's glory years than their work on "Behind the Mask" (or at least the way they were recorded & engineered), & a refreshing absence of that self-important, lugubrious quality, that heaviness, that muddled up the "Behind the Mask" album--with its producer who had no clue how to record this particular band. (He must have thought Fleetwood Mac needed to sound like Rick Springfield, the way Rupert Hine thought Stevie Nicks needed to sound like the Fixx or Richard Marx.)

It's just hard for me to grasp how someone can love "Rumours" & the white album but still completely hate "Time." I can understand someone's not liking the new singers, the new songwriters or the lack of various elements (such as an experimental side) that were no longer a force in the band. But "Time" still shares several elements from the older days that are up front & undeniable!

fair enough, david. But I think Chris' ballads sound highly predictable on time. In fact, I don't like any of her songs after Mirage except Isn't it midnight. Before that almost anything from her hand sounds divine to me.

By the way I agree on your reception of BTM. That's ugliness too. I tried to like those albums, sure but no success. I saw the Time era band Live in groningen and loved it, because John and Mick were on fire. And they played alot of the rumoursera so it was a nostalgianight for me. It was alot better than the liveshow from the BTM-line-up, though.

Only one thing blew it for me in Groningen: Blow by Blow. Yek.

[John Run]

To me, the songs on SYW are as good as all the other FM songs on the other albums, but I just don't enjoy listening to the album because of the way it sounds, the sonics of it. My theory is that, just like the army of backups ruins the sonic environment of the stage show, the army of production & engineering guys who did SYW ****ed that one up--or "updated" the sonics so that the style simulates today's semiunderground hits, possibly (or Reprise's idea of "viable" music). The other theory I have is that Lindsey, with age, has lost his keen ear & his instincts for crafting the best possible sound & presentation for each track. The Fleetwood Mac "gleam" seems to have dulled, even though the songwriters are still writing good material.


Praise you David! Praise you! This is what has always been the problem with Say You Will. It has a muted, muddled mix that softens the drum sounds and muddles so much of the guitar, bass, and keyboards into a mulch of undistinguished parts. I don't think Lindsey has lost his ear, but I do think he forced Needham to mix it like this because I can't imagine any engineer would have wanted it this way. Here is my theory: Lindsey latched onto a trend in the mid 90's that lasted for about 5 years or so that kind of took song making away from artful pop craft and towards a cloudy production haze that made your music sound dark and brooding. Problem was it took Lindsey from what I believe to be his center, which is as a producer/arranger of finely crafted pop music, into something he felt would make him more relevant. Of course it takes him so long to release anything that by the time Say You Will was released it sounded dated and out of form, which is what happens to most music that shies away from staple principles and embraces trends.

[chiliD]

... the only thing I want is that he pulls that back in a post or a PM. That's all.

Ain't gonna happen, deal with it & move on.

[DavidMn]

Ain't gonna happen, deal with it & move on.Amen brother!

[BTFLCHLD]

BTW, I hear they're giving away toys over at Seven Wonders!:D Homie, the only toy you seem to play with lately is your geritol pillbox.
Why do you make jabs at young people a habit?
Are you 50+ or fast approaching? I'm curious. :thumbsup:

[HomerMcvie]

Homie, the only toy you seem to play with lately is your geritol pillbox.
Why do you make jabs at young people a habit?
Are you 50+ or fast approaching? I'm curious. :thumbsup:
Not close by any stretch of the imagination.
Lately, it just seems like were being inundated with 16 year olds.
(AND NO BRIAN, I'm not telling them they aren't welcome here, only that I hope this board doesn't become Seven Wonders).

[Dreamz19]

No really, it is.

Off course it all comes down to opinion. SYW is how I got into the Mac and its better than any other Mac album for me personally and its definatly in my top 5 favourite albums ever (Oasis, Beatles etc also belong there so its hard to pick a particular album).

I don't see why its funny though. I personally LOVE it.

And keep loving it! :D

I can't say SYW is my all time favorite Mac album but it certainly has grown on me and I think it is good even though I miss Christine.

[Dreamz19]

that's how I feel. it does, though, have some masterful cuts on it. Goodbye Baby, Everybody Finds Out, Say Goodbye...if the album had been full of these type songs it would have been a masterpiece. and I like Silver Girl...I don't get all the hate on that song. not saying you Deanna, but some people I think just jumped on the bandwagon and probably don't really dislike it. same as WISYA...it's just easier to not like that like.

anyway, I like it and listen to it on occasion, but I think it could have been better.

I don't hate Sliver Girl either. It's not exactly a favorite of mine (mostly because of the lyrics) but I like it.

[Dreamz19]

I have always felt Mirage was a tad underrated. I love Stevie's material. Lindsey's too (except for the horrific "Empire State."). Chris' is okay.


Awww I love "Empire State." Esp Christine's piano parts. I am starting to think I am the only one on this board that likes it :laugh:

[Gailh]

Awww I love "Empire State." Esp Christine's piano parts. I am starting to think I am the only one on this board that likes it :laugh:


No I like it too!

Gail

[Dreamz19]

No I like it too!

Gail

That is good to hear :thumbsup: I guess I was getting worried since I have mostly seen people say they disliked it.

[wondergirl9847]

I like Empire State. It's not my favorite song in the whole world, but I do like it. Love the plink-plink. :laugh:

[chiliD]

"Empire State" is cool...for a long time it was my fave song on Mirage. The organ sound is a direct influence from Brian Wilson/Beach Boys.

[DavidMn]

"Empire State" is cool...for a long time it was my fave song on Mirage. The organ sound is a direct influence from Brian Wilson/Beach Boys.Thats sort of a hidden gem for me too.

[Sliztzan]

hmm? i don't know what you mean.

I"m lost in thought in left field too. Don't even try to catch it. I was listening to music, maybe it was some lyrics.

Back to Christine McVie. I really like that song "Hold Me". I thought the touches of Lindsey in the beginning were sweet. He has the ability to break though the mold...don't you think?

Did you like that one too?

[TheWILDheart]

I really like say you will. It has it's downsides - i don't like Murrow Turning Over in His Grave and I don't like Silver Girl but songs like Thrown Down, Mirranda, Running Through the Garden, Peacekeeper, Everybody Finds Out and Destiny Rules are some of Mac's best. It is just a little bit too long though. SYW was an improvement from Time but there are no Mac albums I really don't like. I'm going through a bit of a 'Behind the Mask' fase at the moment. I am not so keen on 'Fleetwood Mac' and 'Tusk' has it's annoying moments but Rumours, Mirage, Tango in the Night and Behind the Mask i love. I really DON'T like Stevie's 'Rock a Little' album though.

[chiliD]

i don't like Murrow Turning Over in His Grave.

Do you like "Big Love"? Do you like "I'm So Afraid"? :shrug:

It's basically just those two songs put in a blender.


SYW was an improvement from Time.

I wouldn't go that far. Time was a Fleetwood Mac album...Say You Will was a Buckingham Nicks album in disguise.

[TheWILDheart]

awwww i really like SYW. It's a bit long and some of the tracks are...well....crap, but on the whole i like it. Yes I like Big Love but not I'm So Affraid (i know i will be shot for that). As far as mirage is concernd, it's a little to pollised. Of course i love all 3 stevie songs and Love in Store but stuff like Oh Diane and Only Over You annoy me to no end - they just don't fit. I prefer it to Tusk though. Tusk was a little to experimental. I'm going through a bit of a Behind the Mask fase at the moment - i really like that album.

[TheWILDheart]

Except for Behind the Mask and Time. Those two are the milkman's kids.


Oh I really like Behind the Mask. It must be something to do with us britt's...it got to number 1 over here.

[David]

It's a bit long and some of the tracks are...well....crap,
That's a damn good summation!

[TheWILDheart]

lol. I couldn't think of a better word at the time. Sums some of the songs up though really....lets just say a lot of the SYW tracks aren't to mac standards.

[SteveMacD]

The problem with SYW is that it’s too long, and the songs were of varied quality. Stevie and Lindsey are both brilliant and annoying on this record. Fleetwood Mac tried to make themselves relevant on artistic and sociopolitical grounds, which is fine for solo albums, but not necessarily Fleetwood Mac. People tend not to associate that with Fleetwood Mac, at least this version of Fleetwood Mac. What people want from Fleetwood Mac is catchy songs that stick in their heads. If the songs happen to have a political message or artistic merit, all the better. In other words, no matter what they do, they have to present it as a pop band, first and foremost. Another common gripe is that two songs in particular had already been “officially” released in some form or another (“Steal Your Heart Away” and “Bleed To Love Her”).

I think they needed to release a short, straight-forward pop album. Something around 40 minutes long, that people could listen to in full in one sitting (part of the charm of “Fleetwood Mac” and “Rumours”) and really become familiar with the new material. Remember, this band was founded on the "less-is-more" principle. With this in mind, here’s the album I would have released:

What’s The World Coming To
Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Smile At You
Down On Rodeo
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

[chiliD]

I think they needed to release a short, straight-forward pop album. Something around 40 minutes long, that people could listen to in full in one sitting (part of the charm of “Fleetwood Mac” and “Rumours”) and really become familiar with the new material.

I agree with the concept, although, not necessarily with the song choices. It pretty much is the same way I felt about Tusk.

They should've released an LP's length album (maybe a song or two longer), then they could've released a SECOND album two years later, using the rest of the tunes from those sessions. I think whoever is making the marketing decisions for the band is really missing some obvious opportunities.

[Gailh]

They should've released an LP's length album (maybe a song or two longer), then they could've released a SECOND album two years later, using the rest of the tunes from those sessions. I think whoever is making the marketing decisions for the band is really missing some obvious opportunities.

I heard an interview with Mick once when he said that was one possibility they considered. that you would buy the first album and then the second one (if you liked it) and all the art work would fit together.

Gail

[SteveMacD]

I agree with the concept, although, not necessarily with the song choices.

Honestly, the song choices were fairly easy for me. I think "Murrow," "Red Rover," and "Come" would have been great on a Lindsey Buckingham album. They're fairly ambitious songs that try to make a point, which I usually associate with something found on a Lindsey album. But, in the context of Fleetwood Mac, I personally feel they don't work as well. And, as mentioned, BTLH and SYHA had already been released in some form, which is why I put "Down On Rodeo" there (a great, catchy tune). As for Stevie's material, those were really the only songs from her that I could get into, which is why there are only ten songs on my suggested album.

[Sliztzan]

I hadn't thought of who made the decision of how many songs to put on SYW. That's a good point, and it would be interesting to find out what the members say about this. I think the amount of good songs is greater than the ones I don't care for.

Comparing it to the lengthy Tusk, there is more songs in total on Tusk I like. I love the vocals on both, but I like the the creative sound variations and nuances on Tusk that Lindsey worked on in his home, which greatly adds to Tusk sound, which is just part of what makes Tusk a fantastic piece of work.