wetcamelfood
04-24-2006, 12:16 PM
This is the first in a series of polls on helping to determine the most appropriate ways or sorting some oddball items in the new Penguin discography.
Even though some of the examples used here & in future polls might not directly relate to those in the “Rumours” line up of FM, we’ve just decided to post these hear since this is the most viewed band related forum on The Ledge.
The coding at this point is if it’s a version of a song that has a FM member on it, it’s bold & italics, if someone covers a FM member’s song but the FM members aren’t on it then it’s bold but no italics. If it’s a song that has no FM involvement then the song title is neither bolded or italicized.
OK, as you know, we've added some albums to the discog via the old "Songs covered" page:
http://fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/fmcovers.htm
…because they included some covers of "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around", like this one:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=1132
…which, though a solo SN song, she didn't write it etc.
Now, this is where it gets sticky - Just as an example: In checking through the "Atlantic Records 50 Years: Gold Anniversary Collection" V/A comp:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=58
…you’ll see that Otis Redding's "Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay" is on there, then I remembered that Billy has a version of this song too on his “Between Friends” solo album:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=148
So, I guess this is where some politics come in to play, I mean, most people would associate SDMHA w/SN, even though it was really a Tom Petty throwaway, whereas Otis Redding will always be associated with SOTDOTB & honestly, not many would even know (or care) that Billy recorded a version of SOTDOTB. However, as I’m sure you know with a database, something either “is or isn’t” & we'd like to set some fair rules on this so we don’t come across as having double standards.
Regardless of whether “people generally care more about Stevie than Billy (etc.)”, there’s lots of examples that affect what are deemed to be the most popular FM members, say, “At Last” which Stevie covered on the “Stormy weather” CD, Etta James’ version will always be considered the classic rendition, but if the vote turns out that we don’t add in albums with other people’s versions because a FM didn’t write the song then we won’t make an exception because Stevie covered it as opposed to a less popular member, and so on.
So, for this example, should we put items in to the discog that have “anybody’s” version of SOTDOTB in or not?
I mean, as of now, I’d put Redding’s version is going to be in there anyways since the “Atlantic…” album has an SN song on it anyways but for consistent coding, we’d make OR’s SOTDOTB title bold & put a similar note in that we did to the Loud Lucy version of SDMHA on the Petty tribute, but we’d like to get your view on this rather than just decide for you. Naturally, everyone won’t agree but we’ll go with the option that gets the most votes.
If not, then I guess we should remove those items that “just have another version of SDMHA on them as well. If this is what the majority vote comes out with, we’d rather know now than have to remove hundreds of albums etc. later & I know the easy vote is just to say “oh yeah, just go & add everything” but if you guys don’t honestly think you’ll ever go to look at the pages of “(albums) that have (so & so’s) version of (whatever)” then please don’t choose that option, as it’d save us a lot of time that we could better use on discography features that will matter more to you.
We realize that there are many items to add to the new discog but we’d prefer to get all of the existing items sorting properly etc. before we delve in to adding new things so please do not submit new items to add in at this point, we WILL get to that, but NOT at this time.
We’ve tried to make these vote choices as specific as possible so that things don’t get lost in what is said underneath in the thread so please just choose which option you feel and only post in this thread if you have a genuine, legitimate “gray area” to point out for revising the vote choices if needed.
I would like to hear some ideas below though as to what we should label such an “appearance” if it is decided to add in “all versions” of such songs (or if we don’t & it’s decided to make notations on other versions that happen to be in the discog for other reasons) rather than what we have in currently (which is under the “Production roles” drop downs of the artist’s discogs & for the moment it’s called “Cover Of Related Solo Song”).
Remember that in many cases the FM member’s version was much later (like Billy covering Otis), especially regarding the blues recordings, so “Cover Of Related (FM/other band/solo) Song” doesn’t really work in those instances & it would be clearest if we have this under a category with a name that made sense & didn’t sound silly (whether it was a song done soon after being written or years later).
If necessary, we’ll do 2 separate categories but of course the whole point of a database is to link up as much as possible so things are easy to find & if we had a “FM member covering another artists song” category, I could see surfers wondering why we had such a category if FM & it’s members are the focus of this site’s discography, you know what I mean?
Naturally, we just put “Songwriter” in as the reason for another artist actually covering a song that a FM member writes, like the Smashing Pumpkins album “Pisces Iscariot” for it’s “Landslide” cover:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=1144
…for example…but for those they didn’t write…?)
We can determine closer the time what to do if there’s a tie & we do a revote with the same results etc.
Thanks for the ops in advance. :)
John
EDIT: Had to shorten vote names. Here's the full options:
Option 1: All versions of those songs should still be added to the discography including bolding titles of other artist’s versions (if you choose this vote, please suggest below what the category name should be for such an instance)
Option 2: Only the versions they recorded/appeared on should be included. If another artist’s version happens to be in the discog because of another FM related issue then the title of the other artist’s version should be bold with the notation stating that the FM member isn’t on that recording (if you choose this vote, please suggest below what the category name should be for such an instance).
Option 3: Only the versions they recorded/appeared on should be included. If another artist’s version happens to be in the discog because of another FM related issue then the title of the other artists version should not be bold, no notation should be made & it should not sort in to the FM member’s discog.
Even though some of the examples used here & in future polls might not directly relate to those in the “Rumours” line up of FM, we’ve just decided to post these hear since this is the most viewed band related forum on The Ledge.
The coding at this point is if it’s a version of a song that has a FM member on it, it’s bold & italics, if someone covers a FM member’s song but the FM members aren’t on it then it’s bold but no italics. If it’s a song that has no FM involvement then the song title is neither bolded or italicized.
OK, as you know, we've added some albums to the discog via the old "Songs covered" page:
http://fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/fmcovers.htm
…because they included some covers of "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around", like this one:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=1132
…which, though a solo SN song, she didn't write it etc.
Now, this is where it gets sticky - Just as an example: In checking through the "Atlantic Records 50 Years: Gold Anniversary Collection" V/A comp:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=58
…you’ll see that Otis Redding's "Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay" is on there, then I remembered that Billy has a version of this song too on his “Between Friends” solo album:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=148
So, I guess this is where some politics come in to play, I mean, most people would associate SDMHA w/SN, even though it was really a Tom Petty throwaway, whereas Otis Redding will always be associated with SOTDOTB & honestly, not many would even know (or care) that Billy recorded a version of SOTDOTB. However, as I’m sure you know with a database, something either “is or isn’t” & we'd like to set some fair rules on this so we don’t come across as having double standards.
Regardless of whether “people generally care more about Stevie than Billy (etc.)”, there’s lots of examples that affect what are deemed to be the most popular FM members, say, “At Last” which Stevie covered on the “Stormy weather” CD, Etta James’ version will always be considered the classic rendition, but if the vote turns out that we don’t add in albums with other people’s versions because a FM didn’t write the song then we won’t make an exception because Stevie covered it as opposed to a less popular member, and so on.
So, for this example, should we put items in to the discog that have “anybody’s” version of SOTDOTB in or not?
I mean, as of now, I’d put Redding’s version is going to be in there anyways since the “Atlantic…” album has an SN song on it anyways but for consistent coding, we’d make OR’s SOTDOTB title bold & put a similar note in that we did to the Loud Lucy version of SDMHA on the Petty tribute, but we’d like to get your view on this rather than just decide for you. Naturally, everyone won’t agree but we’ll go with the option that gets the most votes.
If not, then I guess we should remove those items that “just have another version of SDMHA on them as well. If this is what the majority vote comes out with, we’d rather know now than have to remove hundreds of albums etc. later & I know the easy vote is just to say “oh yeah, just go & add everything” but if you guys don’t honestly think you’ll ever go to look at the pages of “(albums) that have (so & so’s) version of (whatever)” then please don’t choose that option, as it’d save us a lot of time that we could better use on discography features that will matter more to you.
We realize that there are many items to add to the new discog but we’d prefer to get all of the existing items sorting properly etc. before we delve in to adding new things so please do not submit new items to add in at this point, we WILL get to that, but NOT at this time.
We’ve tried to make these vote choices as specific as possible so that things don’t get lost in what is said underneath in the thread so please just choose which option you feel and only post in this thread if you have a genuine, legitimate “gray area” to point out for revising the vote choices if needed.
I would like to hear some ideas below though as to what we should label such an “appearance” if it is decided to add in “all versions” of such songs (or if we don’t & it’s decided to make notations on other versions that happen to be in the discog for other reasons) rather than what we have in currently (which is under the “Production roles” drop downs of the artist’s discogs & for the moment it’s called “Cover Of Related Solo Song”).
Remember that in many cases the FM member’s version was much later (like Billy covering Otis), especially regarding the blues recordings, so “Cover Of Related (FM/other band/solo) Song” doesn’t really work in those instances & it would be clearest if we have this under a category with a name that made sense & didn’t sound silly (whether it was a song done soon after being written or years later).
If necessary, we’ll do 2 separate categories but of course the whole point of a database is to link up as much as possible so things are easy to find & if we had a “FM member covering another artists song” category, I could see surfers wondering why we had such a category if FM & it’s members are the focus of this site’s discography, you know what I mean?
Naturally, we just put “Songwriter” in as the reason for another artist actually covering a song that a FM member writes, like the Smashing Pumpkins album “Pisces Iscariot” for it’s “Landslide” cover:
http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=1144
…for example…but for those they didn’t write…?)
We can determine closer the time what to do if there’s a tie & we do a revote with the same results etc.
Thanks for the ops in advance. :)
John
EDIT: Had to shorten vote names. Here's the full options:
Option 1: All versions of those songs should still be added to the discography including bolding titles of other artist’s versions (if you choose this vote, please suggest below what the category name should be for such an instance)
Option 2: Only the versions they recorded/appeared on should be included. If another artist’s version happens to be in the discog because of another FM related issue then the title of the other artist’s version should be bold with the notation stating that the FM member isn’t on that recording (if you choose this vote, please suggest below what the category name should be for such an instance).
Option 3: Only the versions they recorded/appeared on should be included. If another artist’s version happens to be in the discog because of another FM related issue then the title of the other artists version should not be bold, no notation should be made & it should not sort in to the FM member’s discog.