This makes me see red! What is wrong with these people? [Archive]

diamondsnake

04-09-2006, 01:37 AM

Apparently the American Family Association is upset because Walmart is selling Brokeback Mountain in their stores. And somehow this is promoting "evilness" and Walmart is caving in to the "homosexual lifestyle". These people need to get a life! They really need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves why they care so much about something that doesn't effect them in any way, shape, or form. Just because they don't agree with homosexuality doesn't make them rulers of the universe! I'm sorry, I know I am not making any sense, but this just makes me mad!

And, Brokeback is a damn goood movie and it was nominated for tons of Oscars. Obviously this is a movie that people want to see!

The American Family Association needs to understand that America is the the "Land of the Free" and they are fighting a losing game.

:sorry: for my rant!

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/04/040606walUpdt.htm

Miss Vicky

04-09-2006, 08:52 AM

Jason T.

04-09-2006, 10:20 AM

That's nothing. I was working at Blockbuster Video when Brokeback Mountain was hitting the theatre -- and when I mentioned to one of my co-workers that I wanted our copy of the movie poster before anyone else got it; the customer at the counter got upset and said "why would you want to watch that ****?" Also, the morning we started rotating it on our trailer sets, a woman walked out of the store when it came on and said "I'm never coming back here again..."

I quit the week before it came out, but my former coworker Marie said it rented out in the first day...and for anyone who understands how Amarillo is -- that is a near miracle.

Our Wal-Marts have posters for it when you walk in the door...

wondergirl9847

04-09-2006, 11:14 AM

If Wal-Mart is so concerned about morality, why do their employees get treated like crap?

madformac

04-09-2006, 11:47 AM

The world is full of politically correct bull****. So much in fact it's choking society lately.

You tend to find the type of people that are complaining are the ones that use topics such as homosexuality as an excuse from looking at their own problems. Not so much with society but with themselves personally. They are people with deep rooted problems and focus these on others in the form of discrimination. Most of the ones I have met are very religous too which is interesting.

I'm not gay, I don't think I really know any gay people (apart from all you guys on here! :lol: ) but I really don't have a problem with it at all. I do have a problem with people that try to stop freedom of expression and choice and this is a case of that I think.

I always give the same answer to these types of individuals. Choice.... You can choose what you see, hear, read, watch, eat, wear etc. If you don't like it then f**k off somewhere else, the world is a big enough place for everyone to get some space of their own.

:wavey:

tuigirl

04-09-2006, 11:54 AM

If you don't like it then f**k off somewhere else, the world is a big enough place for everyone to get some space of their own.

:wavey:

So...your'e in a thoughtful mood today then Mac? :thumbsup:

tuigirl

04-09-2006, 11:57 AM

If Wal-Mart is so concerned about morality, why do their employees get treated like crap?

It's all about making $$$$$$ Christy, they always want more, no matter how much you get for them, theyr'e all greedy ( and I work for one of them here!)

Richard B

04-09-2006, 12:21 PM

Let me start by saying that I don't believe in censorship.

However, Walmart, Blockbuster and other retail outlets have the right to sell what they deem "appropriate." Brokeback is not the first film, book or CD that has been banned from their retail outlets. Plenty of others (gay subject matter or not).

The best thing to do, as a consumer, is not to support their values by shopping at their retail stores. Ever. Do not give them a dime. I know it's easy to bitch and moan but still go ahead and buy low priced products.

You really want to take action? Write their corporate headquarters, state your view and again never shop there. Ever. No matter what. Probably won't make any difference. But at least you took action.

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 12:37 PM

The best thing to do, as a consumer, is not to support their values by shopping at their retail stores. Ever. Do not give them a dime. I know it's easy to bitch and moan but still go ahead and buy low priced products.

You really want to take action? Write their corporate headquarters, state your view and again never shop there. Ever. No matter what. Probably won't make any difference. But at least you took action.

But that is easier said than done. In my hometown - you either shop at Wal-Mart or you go without. There is only one other grocery store and the prices are so high that many cannot afford to shop there - especially those trying to feed families. There was a mass exodus of grocery stores when Super Wal-Mart hit my hometown and now that is pretty much your only option :shrug:

I would like to not support them - but then again I'm on a very very tight budget and often times I can get all that I need at Wal-Mart - it's ****ty but what else can someone do?

Richard B

04-09-2006, 12:55 PM

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 01:17 PM

Don't bitch and moan about it then. Never bite the hand that feeds you.

I would go without (and I have at times in my life) rather than support censorship. I'd re-arrange my budget (and consumer products) to allow for shopping at other retail outlets without giving up my hard earned finances.

Well again, I'd like to see you try to do that with five children, hell even ONE child, only ONE other very very expensive option for shopping and no money. Good luck. I do not have to agree with all that Wal-Mart does etc - and I can bitch about it as much as I want, since my money actuallY GOES to the place....perhaps it's you all who have nothing at all invested who should stop bitching and moaning.

If you hate Wal-Mart then why do you care if they're selling Brokeback Mountain or not? It goes both ways.

Anyway- I hate what they're doing to the market - it's because of them there are no other shopping choices, but sometimes things aren't as easy as re-arranging a budget.

Sorcerer386

04-09-2006, 01:40 PM

Anyway- I hate what they're doing to the market - it's because of them there are no other shopping choices, but sometimes things aren't as easy as re-arranging a budget.

I have to preface this post by saying that I honestly don't know what it is like to have to pinch pennies. I have been fortunate enough always to have money at my disposal, ALTHOUGH I have worked since I was 16 and saved a large, LARGE chunk of that money for instances that I am in now, where I am unemployed and am returning to school. That being said, take the rest for what it's worth.

WalMart hasn't done anything to the market. Consumers have allowed WalMart to grow into the spectacular giant that it is. Now, I'm in no way disputing the fact that it is EXTREMELY difficult to balance a budget with a family, especially FIVE children. However, I do have to ask, what did people do BEFORE WalMart came to their communities? I would venture to guess that the grocery stores did not raise their prices extremely in the presence of WalMart, though I could be wrong. But, the fact remains, if there WASN'T a WalMart, one would HAVE to shop at another grocery store with higher prices. WalMart makes it more convenient and easier to balance a budget, but is it really impossible to do so without WalMart...if WalMart didn't exist? I don't know honestly...it's just something to think about.

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 01:47 PM

WalMart hasn't done anything to the market. Consumers have allowed WalMart to grow into the spectacular giant that it is. Now, I'm in no way disputing the fact that it is EXTREMELY difficult to balance a budget with a family, especially FIVE children. However, I do have to ask, what did people do BEFORE WalMart came to their communities? I would venture to guess that the grocery stores did not raise their prices extremely in the presence of WalMart, though I could be wrong. But, the fact remains, if there WASN'T a WalMart, one would HAVE to shop at another grocery store with higher prices. WalMart makes it more convenient and easier to balance a budget, but is it really impossible to do so without WalMart...if WalMart didn't exist? I don't know honestly...it's just something to think about.

First off - WalMart and, yes consumers helped it along, HAS changed the face of the grocer/discount store market. One cannot dispute that because it's just plain fact.

Before Wal-Mart there were MANY option for families. In my hometown for instance there were several grocery store chains, and since there were many there was competition as well as fair and competetive pricing.

Enter Wal-Mart. Cheap cheap cheap. They undercut many stores - and hench all but maybe one hang around to compete. But they can't really - hence the outrageously high prices (but hey the affluent need a place to shop that isn't a ghetto Wal_Mart).

So - yes, people did fine before a Wal-Mart. Even in communities where there is still diversity in the marketplace - it IS very possible for a family or perso to do without Wal-Mart. But there are places where that is not possible.

BTFLCHLD

04-09-2006, 01:48 PM

personally...if walmart and only one other similar store was available in town i would choose the one other similar store (dependent upon which store that is) as opposed to forming lines at the zoo. ive shopped walmart um once and didnt find the pricing that dissimilar to that which i have seen elsewhere...we are talking pennies...and my preference for a store is product availability without the mom and five kids in tow :shrug:

paleshadow

04-09-2006, 02:11 PM

There are tons of groccery stores where I live, and a Wal-mart super center. They are about to build a new one much closer to me. The only impact Wal-mart has had has been on K-mart here. In fact, the new Wal-mart is going where K-mart is now, once they close.
They all have their moments as far as bargains go. I just have to watch the weekly ads, and sometimes that's a pain. I'd rather get everything in one place if I can.

You know, I think a good way to send Wal-mart a message would be for everyone who is going to purchase Brokeback Mountain to purchase if FROM wal-mart. Money talks and I think that could sway this and future decisions to keep what some feel is objectionable on the shelves and available for more enlightened customers.

My question though is Wal-marts inventory on a company wide basis, or does it depend on region?

Richard B

04-09-2006, 02:11 PM

Well again, I'd like to see you try to do that with five children, hell even ONE child, only ONE other very very expensive option for shopping and no money. Good luck.
Don't be so exclusive just cause you have kids. Any one individual can be dirt poor and barely able to take care of themselves and make ends meet. Having children only compounds the problem. And five no less! Wow. Someone should have budgeted for birth control or better yet, abstinence.
If you can't afford them, don't have them.

I do not have to agree with all that Wal-Mart does etc - and I can bitch about it as much as I want, since my money actuallY GOES to the place....perhaps it's you all who have nothing at all invested who should stop bitching and moaning.
You sound bitter. What's the point of bitching and moaning over something you don't want to take responsibility for? So you don't have to agree, but you'll give them your hard earned dollars? What you're really saying is: I agree, here's my money.

If you hate Wal-Mart then why do you care if they're selling Brokeback Mountain or not? It goes both ways.
I don't. It's not about Brokeback. It's about censorship. I stated that clearly in my first post. That's not the first film, book or other media that has been censored or attempted to be censored. Farenheit 911 is another example. Plenty of others. Besides Wal-Mart is not banning Brokeback anyway. But their are organizations that want to ban it from being sold. Wal-Mart has had its share of censorship from time to time. Which is why I don't shop there. Plenty of other alternatives. Plenty.

Anyway- I hate what they're doing to the market - it's because of them there are no other shopping choices, but sometimes things aren't as easy as re-arranging a budget.
True. But then consumers just like you made it all happen. Also, not everyone is good at making a realistic budget and willing to make alternative choices. It's all too convenient to buy into the hypocrisy.

dissention

04-09-2006, 02:28 PM

I don't. It's not about Brokeback. It's about censorship. I stated that clearly in my first post. That's not the first film, book or other media that has been censored or attempted to be censored. Farenheit 911 is another example. Plenty of others. Besides Wal-Mart is not banning Brokeback anyway. But their are organizations that want to ban it from being sold. Wal-Mart has had its share of censorship from time to time. Which is why I don't shop there. Plenty of other alternatives. Plenty.

Their censorship is ongoing, it never really ends. They still won't stock Sheryl Crow's self-titled album because of the "Watch out, sister/Watch out, brother/Watch your children while they kill each other/With a gun they bought at Wal Mart discount stores" lyrics in "Love Is A Good Thing." Just like they won't stock albums with parental advisory warnings on them unless they're censored, and until recently, I read that they wouldn't stock unrated movie titles and they still won't stock NC-17 releases. Though I think the best was when they banned Jon Stewart's "America: The Book" because of the nude Supreme Court Justices. Priceless!

If their tendencies towards censorship weren't enough to not shop there, their business practices and abusive treatment of employees should make people think twice about handing them any cash.

estranged4life

04-09-2006, 02:33 PM

But that is easier said than done. In my hometown - you either shop at Wal-Mart or you go without. There is only one other grocery store and the prices are so high that many cannot afford to shop there - especially those trying to feed families. There was a mass exodus of grocery stores when Super Wal-Mart hit my hometown and now that is pretty much your only option :shrug:

I would like to not support them - but then again I'm on a very very tight budget and often times I can get all that I need at Wal-Mart - it's ****ty but what else can someone do?

the state with the most Wal-Mart stores in the US....As I have stated before, Within 100 miles of any direction of our residence is 54+ Wal-Mart stores (Almost all are 24 hour "Super Grocery Stores") with 3 more being built.

And like you said, either you shop at Wel-Fare Mart (I call 'em that because it bothers me when a company has to train their employees on how to apply for "Government assistance" programs during job training, while at the same time this multi-billion dollar a year company can claim a tax break on hiring someone who just happens to be on"Government assistance") or you do without...I HATE Wal-Mart, But have to shop there (bka-Necessary evil) since they have monopolized the grocery/retail market which leaves no other shopping options (When we move closer to OKC, in the near future, we will be shopping at Target...Which will be a welcome option).

Hell, I recall an online article on yahoo.com about Wel-Fare Mart's monopoly in OKC, Whereas in the last 5 years they have taken over 46% of ALL the retail market in OKC alone and about 30 local grocery stores have gone out of business due to not being able to compete with Wel-Fare Mart's everyday low-BS-prices since the "Stupor Store" idea was first created.

Oh, just dont get me started on the shopping carts that Wel-Fare Mart purchases from Unarco Commercial Products (One of my former employers for a few years), I learned to hate Wel-Fare Mart way back then by their "contractual tactics" that were used towards my employer.

One thing I can clearly say, I NEVER PURCHASE MUSIC EVER (!!!) FROM Wel-Fare Mart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Selling an R-Rated movie but ya cant carry an album with the occassional word F**k is absotively HYPOCRITICAL!!!!

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 02:36 PM

Don't be so exclusive just cause you have kids. Any one individual can be dirt poor and barely able to take care of themselves and make ends meet. Having children only compounds the problem. And five no less! Wow. Someone should have budgeted for birth control or better yet, abstinence.
If you can't afford them, don't have them.

Wow....you're a real prize.

First off, I don't even have children.

Second - sometime people's circumstances are such that they have children they CAN afford - but then something unforseen happens. Either way - it's not up to you to tell people to not have children. Once they're here it's a parent's responsibility to feed and clothe them the best way they can.

True. But then consumers just like you made it all happen. Also, not everyone is good at making a realistic budget and willing to make alternative choices. It's all too convenient to buy into the hypocrisy.

You're right - not everyone is willing to make hard budgets and not "buy into they hypocrisy" But there are bigger fish to fry in the world - you don't like Wal-Mart? Don't shop there - it's that simple -but if you dont' shop there - then quit bitching about their censorship practices - what do you care?

Like you said - there are several other choices.

That said, I'm betting that many many more LEdgies shop at Wal-Mart than will openly admit it...I'm just sick of the self-righteous belittleing of those of us who do because we're simply trying to live within our means.

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 02:39 PM

the state with the most Wal-Mart stores in the US....As I have stated before, Within 100 miles of any direction of our residence is 54+ Wal-Mart stores (Almost all are 24 hour "Super Grocery Stores") with 3 more being built.

And like you said, either you shop at Wel-Fare Mart (I call 'em that because it bothers me when a company has to train their employees on how to apply for "Government assistance" programs during job training, while at the same time this multi-billion dollar a year company can claim a tax break on hiring someone who just happens to be on"Government assistance") or you do without...

THANK YOU!

I'm not saying I love Wal-Mart - but people seem to think that we're simply too lazy to find other options...well believe it or not there are places where there ARE no other options. I came from a place like that.

And I understand the concept of "go without" as I grew up doing tha t- but you can't "go without" basic food stuff lol - and well sometimes it's only about the Wal-Mart.

estranged4life

04-09-2006, 02:54 PM

THANK YOU!

I'm not saying I love Wal-Mart - but people seem to think that we're simply too lazy to find other options...well believe it or not there are places where there ARE no other options. I came from a place like that.

And I understand the concept of "go without" as I grew up doing tha t- but you can't "go without" basic food stuff lol - and well sometimes it's only about the Wal-Mart.

somewhat poor, but in my hometown of Muskogee, Oklahoma we ad more retail choices...Whereas now we have either shop at Wel-Fare Mart or you dont shop.

For Debbie & myself to shop, the closest town with shopping is 26 miles away (52 miles roundtrip)....And guess what is the only shopping option you have in Anadarko, Oklahoma? That's right, Wel-Fare Mart

If Debbie & myself were to avoid shopping at Wel-Fare Mart then we will have to make a 45 mile trip (90 mile roundtrip) to Lawton, Oklahoma...Where you have either Wel-Fare Mart or a failing K-Mart to shop at.

I would love to shop at K-Mart, as I did when I was younger, but their prices at much higher than Wel-Fare Mart's "everyday-BS-low prices" (I will estimate K-Mart is about 25-35% higher on average than Wel-Fare Mart on basic items...If not higher).

The way we figure is that we can either "feed the large money grubbing monopoly" and save our $$$$, Or we can try to help "the little guy/underdog" by spending extra $$$$ for higher priced items and end up being broke...And when you have someone in a family with either a severe illness (ie-Cancer) or with a possible severe illness (Or even if you have mouths to feed such as children) you try to be tight with the $$$$ you have for a budget...Even if it means going against your own morl belief and having to "give in to the Evil Empire" that you dispise!

Trust me, I would love to see more shopping options in the smaller towns around the OKC area so I could take my $$$$ elsewhere from Wel-Fare Mart, But I dont see that happening...if EVER!

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 03:20 PM

somewhat poor, but in my hometown of Muskogee, Oklahoma we ad more retail choices...Whereas now we have either shop at Wel-Fare Mart or you dont shop.

For Debbie & myself to shop, the closest town with shopping is 26 miles away (52 miles roundtrip)....And guess what is the only shopping option you have in Anadarko, Oklahoma? That's right, Wel-Fare Mart

If Debbie & myself were to avoid shopping at Wel-Fare Mart then we will have to make a 45 mile trip (90 mile roundtrip) to Lawton, Oklahoma...Where you have either Wel-Fare Mart or a failing K-Mart to shop at.

I would love to shop at K-Mart, as I did when I was younger, but their prices at much higher than Wel-Fare Mart's "everyday-BS-low prices" (I will estimate K-Mart is about 25-35% higher on average than Wel-Fare Mart on basic items...If not higher).

The way we figure is that we can either "feed the large money grubbing monopoly" and save our $$$$, Or we can try to help "the little guy/underdog" by spending extra $$$$ for higher priced items and end up being broke...And when you have someone in a family with either a severe illness (ie-Cancer) or with a possible severe illness (Or even if you have mouths to feed such as children) you try to be tight with the $$$$ you have for a budget...Even if it means going against your own morl belief and having to "give in to the Evil Empire" that you dispise!

Trust me, I would love to see more shopping options in the smaller towns around the OKC area so I could take my $$$$ elsewhere from Wel-Fare Mart, But I dont see that happening...if EVER!

Man...yeah...that sucks. In my hometown (in New Mexico) we did get a Target, and we have a K-Mart. But yeah, the prices are significantly higher. The Target is ok - so that is good for paper goods and hygiene products. But there is only one other grocery chain in town and it is way higher than Hell-mart. WAY higher. Not just pennies...we're talking dollars.

Even here - I shop at a grocery store called Wegmans - but for a dessert I like it's $1.76 at Hell-Mart - and $2.76 at Wegmans..that's quite a difference. Still -now that I'm no longer a college student I try to not shop at Wal-Mart...that was until a rash of unexpected dental work and car work put me in a position where I'm WAY Strapped :( It's hard all over....and sometimes - well you just gotta bite the bullet. And Wal-Mart carries the milk I drink (a lactose free-variety) - whereas no other store does :(

Anyway - I hate K-Mart actually more than Hell-Mart lol - so that's not even an option for me....I gotta take care of me and my doggie - and it's nice to have a few dollars left over in the case of unexpected problems....sigh.

Richard B

04-09-2006, 04:10 PM

sometime people's circumstances are such that they have children they CAN afford - but then something unforseen happens. Either way - it's not up to you to tell people to not have children. Once they're here it's a parent's responsibility to feed and clothe them the best way they can.

No ****? Ya, think?
I'm not saying not to have kids. But you sure had better think real hard before you go and have kids you can't support. This country is filled with that very real problem. Unloved, unwanted and uncared for children. So yeah, I care about it. We're over-populated as it is, and frankly no one needs to have that many children any more. Not here. Not in a country that simply can not support it. I pay taxes, so I do support those in need, just like anyone. But a little education and forethought go a long way in preventing this problem.

I'm just sick of the self-righteous belittleing of those of us who do because we're simply trying to live within our means.
Quit projecting. I wasn't belittling anyone. People can do what they want. Just don't bitch without good cause to back it up. It makes you look pathetic. And again, I was talking about censorship, not Wal-Mart specifically, even if they do.

Wow....you're a real prize.
You're no treasure either. Too bad you can't think logically and rationally as opposed to just being reactionary. I never made a snide comment to you.

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 04:51 PM

You're no treasure either. Too bad you can't think logically and rationally as opposed to just being reactionary. I never made a snide comment to you.

Actually I think very logically and rationally. You don't know me obviously - thinking I had kids and all :confused:

Either way - you can think what you want....and I won't "react" to you any longer. And I was making actual real and valid points about Wal-Mart and the climate of shopping. I said you were a real prize because you (from what I gathered) you basically told me not to have children then you assumed I had (which is very rude).

I agree about the over population actually - and yes, education is key...BUT who am I to tell someone with a great income and job not to have five kids...then telling them if one loses a job or gets downsized..."Well ya shouldn't have all those kids!?!" Whatever.

David

04-09-2006, 05:38 PM

But that is easier said than done. In my hometown - you either shop at Wal-Mart or you go without. There is only one other grocery store and the prices are so high that many cannot afford to shop there - especially those trying to feed families. There was a mass exodus of grocery stores when Super Wal-Mart hit my hometown and now that is pretty much your only option :shrug:

I would like to not support them - but then again I'm on a very very tight budget and often times I can get all that I need at Wal-Mart - it's ****ty but what else can someone do?Deanna & Richard, I guess I'm totally spoiled because I have--literally--dozens of grocery stores within, say, fifteen minutes of me where I can buy food & groceries. But sometimes I hear from people in small towns or some backwoods borough where there is literally only one market ... or one gas station ... or one shoe store ... or one whatever, &c.

Southern California cities just flood over with choices, until life here becomes a series of deliquescent options.

The more populous the region you live in, the clearer you can see the benefits of a (relatively) free market. If one guy charges too much for his widgets, another guy is right there to grab the customers with lower-priced widgets. Round & round it goes; where it stops, nobody knows.

It makes one really appreciate a truly free market, & make one very impatient with government (or "citizen watchdog" groups) tampering with that marketplace (outside obvious concerns about safety & fraud--but those are crimes, & government should play a role in crime prevention & punishment).

amber

04-09-2006, 06:16 PM

But there are bigger fish to fry in the world - you don't like Wal-Mart? Don't shop there - it's that simple -but if you dont' shop there - then quit bitching about their censorship practices - what do you care?

You're not serious, here, about not complaining about things (bitching) because they don't directly affect you, right? :confused: The world would be a lot better if more people bitched about more unfair/wrong/detrimental things that are going on.
Did I read that wrong?

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 06:35 PM

You're not serious, here, about not complaining about things (bitching) because they don't directly affect you, right? :confused: The world would be a lot better if more people bitched about more unfair/wrong/detrimental things that are going on.
Did I read that wrong?

Nah - I was saying that more in a tongue and cheek manner. I mean I think that the genocide in Darfur is horrid - it doesn't affect me, but you can bet I'll speak out against it...and some of the environmental attrocities going on in India...totally doesn't affect me...BUT I'll speak out.

I was just sort of trying to go at the issue from the other side..as in - if y'all don't shop at Wal-Mart - then why do you care if they sell Brokeback Mountain or not - or if they only sell censored cds...eh....I don't even know why I got involved in the issue at all really....

irishgrl

04-09-2006, 06:42 PM

You're no treasure either. Too bad you can't think logically and rationally as opposed to just being reactionary. I never made a snide comment to you.

No? what was that bit about budgeting in for birth control?

that sure looked snide to me.....:shrug:

btw: you can plan and try and forsee any eventuality, but life almost always has the ability to throw you a curve ball, so no matter how much you save or how many safety nets you try and erect, there is ALWAYS the possibility that you overlooked something or that something will happen completely unlooked for.....such as you could get in an accident and lose a limb or go into a coma and lose your job/insurance and now have all those hospital bills to pay for on TOP of all your other expenses.....there's just no way to be completely prepared. thats unrealistic thinking on your part.

diamondsnake

04-09-2006, 06:53 PM

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 07:06 PM

I don't live in a very large town, but we have dozens of grocery stores and markets. We have the big three super stores- Walmart, Kmart, and Target. I admit, I kind of like Target! And we also have a bunch of large grocery stores, specialty stores, and farmers markets, as well as produce stands.

Walmart is my last choice! However, I sometimes shop there if I need an item late at night. Walmart is really the only 24-hour grocery store. And, if I am baking cookies at three in the morning, Walmart can be a lifesaver.

However, I have vowed never to go back there after a horrible experience. I was in the DVD section and a man with one of those huge, wide brooms/mops was sweeping the perimeter of the store. I was apparently in his way. He didn't give me any warning and screamed "Excuse Me!!!!" while practically knocking me over with his broom! He litterally was sweeping my feet because I didn't have fast enough reflexes. I was pissed! Walmart honestly will hire anyone. What I wanted to say to this man was "On what planet is it appropriate to treat a customer like that?" But then I remembered, I was at Walmart!

:laugh: No offense - but if THAT is the worst experience you've ever had at a Wal-Mart then you're doing pretty good. My ex-boyfriend once got into a HUGE argument with a cashier - security had to escort him out. SOOOOO...when we'd go to Wal-Mart, because, again - in my hometown that was pretty much the only optin, we'd ram our carts into thing purposely....knock **** over....really childish and stupid - and really we were making no point at all - it just made us feel better. Those poor employees - they have to deal with jerks like us everyday - and the people they work for treat them bad to boot - I usually let rudeness or curtness from a Wal-Mart employee pass...

I love the commercials with all these happy friendly employees, clean aisles and friendly customers...I wanna go to THAT Wal-Mart :laugh:

It is my last resort for most things- although, like I said - they'r ethe only ones who carry the brand/type of milk I drink - which means I actually do shop there when I can't afford the more expensive Lactose-Free milk at other stores...

irishgrl

04-09-2006, 08:42 PM

:laugh: No offense - but if THAT is the worst experience you've ever had at a Wal-Mart then you're doing pretty good. My ex-boyfriend once got into a HUGE argument with a cashier - security had to escort him out. SOOOOO...when we'd go to Wal-Mart, because, again - in my hometown that was pretty much the only optin, we'd ram our carts into thing purposely....knock **** over....really childish and stupid - and really we were making no point at all - it just made us feel better. Those poor employees - they have to deal with jerks like us everyday - and the people they work for treat them bad to boot - I usually let rudeness or curtness from a Wal-Mart employee pass...

I love the commercials with all these happy friendly employees, clean aisles and friendly customers...I wanna go to THAT Wal-Mart :laugh:

It is my last resort for most things- although, like I said - they'r ethe only ones who carry the brand/type of milk I drink - which means I actually do shop there when I can't afford the more expensive Lactose-Free milk at other stores...

Deanna, can you take an OTC lactose aid to help with that? lactaid comes to mind....

amber

04-09-2006, 08:47 PM

Soy Milk. Soy Milk.

DrummerDeanna

04-09-2006, 08:59 PM

Yeah - I can do lactaid and such - I don't know why I don't. That's definitely something to think about though! I mean - I assume I can do the Lactaid thing - I take it when I know I'm going to be eating large amounts of ice cream.

The weird thing is though - I'm not totally lactose intolerant. It's just milk. I love skim milk - but I can't drink it without icky consequences. I can do ice cream, cheese etc..but no milk...I'll give Lactaid a try w/ milk and see what happens.

And as per soy. Well I love soy milk in espresso beverages - Soy Latte (yum) and I love a Soy Chai..BUT I can't stomach it on my cereal or straight :( I could probably get used to it - but I actually like the taste of skim milk lol...

BTFLCHLD

04-10-2006, 12:12 AM

SOOOOO...when we'd go to Wal-Mart, because, again - in my hometown that was pretty much the only optin, we'd ram our carts into thing purposely....knock **** over....really childish and stupid - and really we were making no point at all - it just made us feel better. Those poor employees - they have to deal with jerks like us everyday... goodthing you dont shop anywhere i do
really childish stupid? really ****ty

Richard B

04-10-2006, 12:39 AM

Actually I think very logically and rationally. You don't know me obviously - thinking I had kids and all :confused:

Either way - you can think what you want....and I won't "react" to you any longer. And I was making actual real and valid points about Wal-Mart and the climate of shopping. I said you were a real prize because you (from what I gathered) you basically told me not to have children then you assumed I had (which is very rude).

I agree about the over population actually - and yes, education is key...BUT who am I to tell someone with a great income and job not to have five kids...then telling them if one loses a job or gets downsized..."Well ya shouldn't have all those kids!?!" Whatever.
I was generalizing (I don't see how it was directed at you specifically. The world does not revolve around you. I was responding to your use of a 5 kid scenario):
"Any one individual can be dirt poor and barely able to take care of themselves and make ends meet. Having children only compounds the problem. And five no less! Wow. Someone should have budgeted for birth control or better yet, abstinence.
If you can't afford them, don't have them."

I actually never thought you had 5 kids. I doubt you'd have the time to post here if you did.

And you're right, I don't know you and you don't me. That we can at least agree on. I still think you assumed much more than I ever implied, which is evident if you read through the posts.

However, no matter how rich you are, 5 kids is way too many in the world of today. Look what's happening in China. Eventually, with time, when our streets and cities are too crowded, there just may be a limit on procreation. Course, living where you're living, you won't see it as quickly. But for me, living in a very urban environment, I already see the repercussions daily.

I guess crashing shopping carts in stores is a more amusing past time for you.

GODDESS6

04-10-2006, 06:32 AM

Actually, I was surprised when I saw that Walmart was carrying the movie, since they're always so high-and-mighty when it comes to promoting family values/their lame-brain idea of morality.

I suppose though that it just came down to the bottom line. People will buy Brokeback, so Walmart's gonna sell it.

I? Bought my copy from Amazon.
i was surprised to see my superwalmart carrying it also, matter of fact they had it in a huge display, i also noticed that they are starting to sell the "unrated" version of movies, which they never did before~

SuzeQuze

04-10-2006, 07:46 AM

The Wal-Marts near me actually are clean and the greeters are friendly. :shocked: But I don't shop there anymore. It is rediculous that the Waltons are in the top 10 of richest people in the world but cannot offer healthcare to their employees. Not to mention the way they favor male employees and their censorship practices.

I can't imagine it being the only option to shop at, that would really make me struggle with my conscience/wallet. I guess just avoid shopping there except for the necessities if their policies bother you. Shop at other retailers online to get kitchen gadgets, towels or whatever. Target.com has so much to offer. You can get anything on Amazon.com. But I can see that if there is no other grocery store within your budget you don't have much choice. People who've never been poor have a hard time understanding that. But when you have to make a choice between milk or no milk there really seems to be only one option.

DrummerDeanna

04-10-2006, 09:12 AM

:rolleyes: Umm......well it's good to know that none of you have ever done anything childish and ****ty. In case no one noticed..I said ex-boyfriend, this was a long time ago. Don't judge.

BTFLCHLD

04-10-2006, 10:33 AM

Umm......childish and ****ty

:] give us s'more examples!

cliffdweller

04-10-2006, 11:18 AM

The Wal-Marts near me actually are clean and the greeters are friendly. :shocked: But I don't shop there anymore. It is rediculous that the Waltons are in the top 10 of richest people in the world but cannot offer healthcare to their employees. Not to mention the way they favor male employees and their censorship practices.

Exactly.

I can't, in good conscience, shop at Wal-Mart for these and other reasons. Plain and simple.

However, I'm not about to berate someone because they choose to shop there.

Instead of channeling all this rage at patrons of Wal-Mart why not channel it instead at this huge behemoth of a corporation that cares more about a huge profit margin than they're underpaid, underappreciated employees? Wal-Mart execs could make a lot of internal changes that would greatly benefit both consumers and employees, but they choose not to because they are more interested in money than people. I mean, it can't be stated any more plainly than that. Oh yeah, and by the looks of things they are also more interested in empty, abstract, principals such as "family values" :rolleyes: than the 1st ammendment, so, shop for your DVD's and c.d.'s elsewhere.

And Christy, I enjoyed your comment about Wal-Mart's twisted concept of "morality." Sums up the situation entirely to me ;)

stargazer99

04-10-2006, 11:33 AM

I boycott Wal-Mart myself, but unfortunately, my husband still buys from there occassionally. We've always been lucky enough to have other options wherever we've lived, but I have read articles about other areas of the country (mostly smaller towns) where Wal-Mart has driven everyone else out of business and is the only shopping option for residents. :(

My husband stopped by Wal-Mart last Tuesday to see whether they had Brokeback Mountain. While our Wal-Mart did have it, they had it hidden way in the back -- no advertisement whatsoever. The big advertising posters for the movie that are in other Wal-Marts are non-existent in ours.

When I read about this group's boycott of Wal-Mart, my initial reaction (after disgust) was the same as someone else in this thread mentioned. I considered buying the movie from Wal-Mart in protest of the boycott. But I realized that didn't make any sense, since I'd expect every store that has a video/DVD section to carry movies that are blockbusters and Oscar contenders. Why should I reward Wal-Mart for doing what they should be doing anyway? Especially when our own Wal-Mart was a bunch of cowards and pretty much "hid" the DVD's. Not to mention the fact that they've refused to stock other products such as the Jon Stewart book or the morning after pill -- decisions I strongly disagree with. And finally, why put money in the pockets of those with such poor employment practices?

BTW, I live in Plano, TX -- home of the new (and only) "upscale" Wal-Mart:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2006-03-22-walmart_x.htm

P.S. This isn't the Wal-Mart where my husband looked for the DVD.

DavidMn

04-10-2006, 01:15 PM

estranged4life

04-10-2006, 01:19 PM

:rolleyes: Umm......well it's good to know that none of you have ever done anything childish and ****ty. In case no one noticed..I said ex-boyfriend, this was a long time ago. Don't judge.

I could plead the 5th, but I have a tendency (STILL!) to run over the shopping carts with my car in the Wel-fare Mart parking lot...Call it an "occupational payback" from my past of building those @#$%^&* things!

strandinthewind

04-10-2006, 03:06 PM

I boycott Wal-Mart myself, but unfortunately, my husband still buys from there occassionally . . . .

I have always thought that, like people, all corporations have horrible sides. So, until I find one that does not, I will shop whereever is the most convenient. Having said that, I tend to support locally owned stores if given the option. For example, I buy alot of my clothes at a locally owned shop. I have known the owners for 15 or so years and they make it worth my while to shop there even though it is a tad more $$$ to do so. For example, I just bought a FAB new coat and they gave me an extra haof off of the already marked down price. That would NEVER happen in a huge dept. store. Conversly, the person I am dating loves Wal Mart and goes there often. I go when I can, but nothing there really grabs me or is significantly less expensive than at my local Publix. So, I am not a fan of Wal Mart for that reason. Having said that, I LOVE the Target (TarJAY) by my house!

cliffdweller

04-10-2006, 03:31 PM

Having said that, I LOVE the Target (TarJAY) by my house!

:nod: Target rocks.

strandinthewind

04-10-2006, 04:05 PM

:nod: Target rocks.

AND - this one has the cool escalator that you can hook your cart to. It also makes me LMAO when two guys are holding hands while walking through the store and some of the Buckhead matrons do a double take :laugh:

SuzeQuze

04-10-2006, 04:55 PM

Target does rock, I was there yesterday getting stuff for Kenya! :blob1:

amber

04-10-2006, 05:52 PM

I have always thought that, like people, all corporations have horrible sides. !
You can think that, but it isn't true. :wavey: (not the people, the corps.)

strandinthewind

04-10-2006, 07:42 PM

You can think that, but it isn't true. :wavey: (not the people, the corps.)

Please list one corporation that has never done one bad thing and/or has never screwed anyone or other entity over in the name of profit, which is what I am talking about.

Tap Tap Tap - I'm waiting and have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time :laugh:

Seriously, I get that Wal Mart may be worse in the eyes of many, but they are all bad in some way. For example, all the CEO's making over $50 million a year could easily give a dollar more an hour to the lower third of the labor force, but they do not. Moreover, the concept of any profit is the definition of evil to some people. So, I say shop where you want and live with your conscience.

stargazer99

04-10-2006, 08:03 PM

I have always thought that, like people, all corporations have horrible sides. So, until I find one that does not, I will shop whereever is the most convenient. Having said that, I tend to support locally owned stores if given the option. For example, I buy alot of my clothes at a locally owned shop. I have known the owners for 15 or so years and they make it worth my while to shop there even though it is a tad more $$$ to do so. For example, I just bought a FAB new coat and they gave me an extra haof off of the already marked down price. That would NEVER happen in a huge dept. store. Conversly, the person I am dating loves Wal Mart and goes there often. I go when I can, but nothing there really grabs me or is significantly less expensive than at my local Publix. So, I am not a fan of Wal Mart for that reason. Having said that, I LOVE the Target (TarJAY) by my house!

Target is my place of choice as well. Decent stuff for a good price.

We try to support local shops as well. But hubby shops at Wal-Mart (and Sam's) for the prices. I personally think the quality of most of Wal-Mart's stuff sucks, and the prices aren't much lower than places like Target, where the quality is considerably better. That on top of the fact that they're infamous for screwing their employees, while banning books, etc., that they have a "moral" issue with, totally turns me off on the place.

irishgrl

04-10-2006, 08:27 PM

out of curiosity, does anyone know who the parent company for Target is?
Isnt it Lucky's/Albertsons? I cant remember.....

I know Kmart is now owned by Sears, but I could have sworn Target was also owned by another big name???

EDIT: I think I found it, Target Corp owns Target Stores, and Mervyns, and Marshall Fields

Brwn_eyes0511

04-10-2006, 08:47 PM

If Wal-Mart is so concerned about morality, why do their employees get treated like crap?

Exactly.. and the employees that they treat like crap, in turn, treat customers like crap.. I suppose you get what you are willing to pay for..

I-HATE-WAL-MART!

amber

04-10-2006, 09:42 PM

Please list one corporation that has never done one bad thing and/or has never screwed anyone or other entity over in the name of profit, which is what I am talking about.

Tap Tap Tap - I'm waiting and have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time :laugh:

.

Ben and Jerry's?
Working Assets?
Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

You can make profits without screwing people, and there are definitely companies that do so. Of course, you may not believe that, I'm sure we've discussed this before. Like with the pollution thing - it's a way of justifying not doing what you actually could do to help (that's a guess, otherwise I don't know how you could really believe what you say about some of these issues).
Just because someone doesn't want to be mindful of their shopping and consuming, doesn't mean there aren't viable ways to do so. And once again, every little bit helps. If you want to be very, very mindful, that can take some extra effort, but it's still possible. I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me. :wavey:

paleshadow

04-10-2006, 10:14 PM

Ben and Jerry's?
Working Assets?
Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

I kind of agree with Strand here. A quick search of the internet provided info on the only two specific companies you listed, Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets. As one of the articles said, it's true that it's no Watergate, it still seems like a case of both companies not providing a complete picture to their customers in order to protect their assets. With the other three instances you listed, I'm sure a search of specific companies within those industries could turn up some bad business practices as well. Here are links to the articles regarding Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets though:

http://www.jonentine.com/articles/boston_globe.htm

http://www.envirolink.org/articles/jul97-2.html

dissention

04-10-2006, 10:29 PM

amber

04-10-2006, 10:31 PM

I kind of agree with Strand here. A quick search of the internet provided info on the only two specific companies you listed, Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets. As one of the articles said, it's true that it's no Watergate, it still seems like a case of both companies not providing a complete picture to their customers in order to protect their assets. With the other three instances you listed, I'm sure a search of specific companies within those industries could turn up some bad business practices as well. Here are links to the articles regarding Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets though:

http://www.jonentine.com/articles/boston_globe.htm

http://www.envirolink.org/articles/jul97-2.html
That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself. You could at least do the best you can, the best that is available to you, while striving for better. If you don't do anything at all, if you aren't mindful of your choices, then for sure nothing will change. It's a mistake to flippantly write any responsibility off with "well, all companies do something bad, so It's pointless to try to find/support ones that don't." Because in fact, all companies are not equal, some are much more socially/environmentally responsible than others.

I'll check the literature at Earthjustice tomorrow, I know there are better companies than the above. And that the above are better than many other companies. I have Environmental Law and I'm volunteering at Earthjustice all semester, I should be able to find something. :p
In conclusion, though my examples were not 100% mountain pure, I still do not agree with Strand, and I still do find that kind of thinking dangerous :) Thanks for the info. :wavey:
You know what would be cool? If companies like Working Assets could afford to make their own energy, in the cleanest possible way with the current technology. That's one of those projects some billionaire should seriously bankroll in partnership with a company. I bet whoever put the whole plan into effect on a big business scale like that - and paid for research to make things cheapest/cleanest, the very forefront of technology - would eventually (I'm not sure how soon) make a bumload of money. Especially if their paid for research got some patents. Cashola. Why don't billionaires ever do what I want them to????

Edit - Oh, hey, Diss, didn't see you up there!:wavey: I guess now this will be the point that's twice as nice. :laugh:

dissention

04-10-2006, 10:44 PM

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself. You could at least do the best you can, the best that is available to you, while striving for better. If you don't do anything at all, if you aren't mindful of your choices, then for sure nothing will change. It's a mistake to flippantly write any responsibility off with "well, all companies do something bad, so It's pointless to try to find/support ones that don't." Because in fact, all companies are not equal, some are much more socially/environmentally responsible than others.

Edit - Oh, hey, Diss, didn't see you up there!:wavey: I guess now this will be the point that's twice as nice. :laugh:

Great minds think alike, after all. :P

paleshadow

04-10-2006, 11:02 PM

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself.

Yeah, you are right. In no way did I mean to suggest that either of those companies were bad. I do believe that like Diss said every company has some element of negativity involved with it, and I think that's what Strands original argument was, that there is no such company that is angelic. Amber, you really did pick a couple of good ones though especially when compare them to so many other companies but like Strand said, even those have their controversies.

wondergirl9847

04-10-2006, 11:42 PM

If we didn't shop at companies that did stupid crap....we wouldn't own anything. :laugh:

People don't have the time and don't wanna put forth the effort to look into every store they decide to shop at.

Love of money is the root of all evil. Greed is very dangerous. :(

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 06:23 AM

Ben and Jerry's?

We are supposed to live on and dress with ice cream :laugh:

Seriously, do you know all the in's and out's of BJ's? Do you know who they use for their suppliers and, if so, have you investigated them as well? Or, does it just stop at the BJ?

Working Assets?

They seem like a nice company, but I am sure they, like all, had screwed people in the name of the bottom line. Moreover, they do not own their own phone lines and are, therefore, using those of huge corporations like ATT, MCI, etc., which I can assure you have screwed many over in the name of the bottom line. So, so much for that.

Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

Be more specific :laugh: And - many I know of do not make their products available to people on a tight budget; in fact, most of this stuff is unobtainable to a family of five making $40,000 a year at the mill.

You can make profits without screwing people, and there are definitely companies that do so. Of course, you may not believe that, I'm sure we've discussed this before. Like with the pollution thing - it's a way of justifying not doing what you actually could do to help (that's a guess, otherwise I don't know how you could really believe what you say about some of these issues).

Because my head is not in the sand and I am no crazy, unrealistic, head in the purple haze Californian :laugh:

Seriously and back to my main point, all companies do bad things or at least things people perceive as bad. Again, it is all a matter of self conscious and choosing the less greedy, for they are all greedy, save perhaps for the pricey BJ's, which is hardly a way to clothe and feed your family on a budget.

Just because someone doesn't want to be mindful of their shopping and consuming, doesn't mean there aren't viable ways to do so. And once again, every little bit helps. If you want to be very, very mindful, that can take some extra effort, but it's still possible. I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me. :wavey:

That is hypocritical in the sense that you do so when it suits you. For example, you support many an industry and company that does bad things. I mean you smoke for goodness sake (or at least you used to) - that industry is hardly angelic :shrug: Moreover, you jetted off to Vegas with little care and no regard for the airline you used (some are way worse than others) as suggest you obtained the lowest price possible.

But, you can have the last word as I am not about to beat this horse to death because you have blinders on and want to sit there and preach about how good you are :laugh:

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 06:26 AM

Every business is going to have something that one considers to be a "bad business practice." It's unavoidable. However, it's quite outlandish for Jason to say that since every company out there embraces some sort of bad business practice, they should all be treated equally with the hard-earned dollars of consumers; that one business should not be shunned because there's another business with bad practices right around the corner. In fact, as much as I love him, I find it almost childish in it's naive simplicity. No one will ever know every practice of every corporation they give their patronage to, but when one knows about the scummy practices of one and decides to cease giving them their business, that's neither a bad nor hypocritical thing. Total awareness is nonexistent; acting on the things that a consumer is aware of is all that anyone can do.

Well, I never said that. I said they are all bad so each person needs to determine for themselves what they are willing to support. If I said anything different than that, let's see it. How that is naive is beyond me.

On edit - again, I think people should buy from whereever they are comfortable. I just take issue with people beating up one company for its bad acts and letting others off the hook because their bad acts are less severe than someone like Wal Mart. It just seems hypocritical to me. But, then again, I think everyone is a hypocrite to some degree - where's my foil hat :laugh:

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 06:27 AM

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself . . . .

and thank you for making my point, which was it is all about personal choice and what you are willing to live with and the constraints of your financial situation :cool:

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 06:31 AM

Yeah, you are right. In no way did I mean to suggest that either of those companies were bad. I do believe that like Diss said every company has some element of negativity involved with it, and I think that's what Strands original argument was, that there is no such company that is angelic. Amber, you really did pick a couple of good ones though especially when compare them to so many other companies but like Strand said, even those have their controversies.

Exactly. And - I think one should support whatever company they want and I personally try to support the ones I think do the least harm. I am just noting that if I am driving late at night and Exxon is the only station within 100 miles, I am not going to hold them too responsible for the Valdez at that exact moment in time :laugh:

GODDESS6

04-11-2006, 06:38 AM

Exactly. And - I think one should support whatever company they want and I personally try to support the ones I think do the least harm. I am just noting that if I am driving late at night and Exxon is the only station within 100 miles, I am not going to hold them too responsible for the Valdez at that exact moment in time :laugh:
you just brought up a memory~ i remember when "silkwood" came out, the kerr mcgee gas stations practically went out of business here, no one would use their services~

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 06:39 AM

you just brought up a memory~ i remember when "silkwood" came out, the kerr mcgee gas stations practically went out of business here, no one would use their services~

and I do not blame the consumers one bit :nod: But, in a bind, I bet people overlooked that and used them anyway.

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 07:03 AM

I know that the bottom line for corporations (all corporations, both good and bad) is the dollar. I think, as a matter of conscience, we should support as far as possible, those corporations who embrace environmental protections, who give back to their communities and who remember the customer, both in prices of their goods and their commitment to service. Also, I personally am angry about outsourcing, so that would also be a sticking point for me.

There is a company in the Bay Area that recycles materials from deconstructing homes, and sells them at reduced price. I saw this on an episode of "California's Green," (an offshoot of California's Gold) and I remember being quite impressed with the concept, because it reuses materials and reduces the landfill, both noble ideas!

HOME DECONSTRUCTION

Huell visits the ReUse People, an organization dedicated to salvaging building materials for reuse. Working with a network of contractors, they have "deconstructed" and salvaged hundreds of buildings while diverting more than two hundred thousand tons of usable building materials from landfills.

www.thereusepeople.org
888-588-9490

If I lived closer, believe me! I'd be a customer! I highly recommend any Californians to visit these folks and support their efforts!

And Jason, Im PROUD to be a Californian.:rolleyes:

EDIT: I went back to Huel Howser's website, and there is a whole laundry list of eco-friendly companies listed there!
many are listed if you click on the show titles on the left, and he also includes "green" companies' links on the right.

here is his "Green" link:
http://www.calgold.com/green/ (http://www.calgold.com/green/Default.asp?Series=100&Show=658)

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 07:03 AM

. . . And Jason, Im PROUD to be a Californian.:rolleyes:

I was joking you boob :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 07:27 AM

I was joking you boob :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:
then Im a proud Californian boob! :]

here is an AWESOME national Green resource link:
GreenPages (http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/greenpages/)

it also lists "Green" Corporations, so now we can make informed choices!

cliffdweller

04-11-2006, 09:59 AM

I just take issue with people beating up one company for its bad acts and letting others off the hook because their bad acts are less severe than someone like Wal Mart. It just seems hypocritical to me.

It's not really hypocritical, actually, I think it's very pragmatic rationale, I think people should think in terms of degrees which is what Amber is doing. You can't just lump everyone in the same pot because for example, Ben and Jerry's is not Wal-Mart. That's like saying your mean 3rd grade teacher is the equivalent of Hitler...not all mean people can be lumped into the same extreme category. I know that's not the tightest analogy but hey, it's too early in the morning for well thought out monologues! :laugh: I guess what I'm trying to say is that severity does matter, and so do degrees of corruption which makes Wally Mart all the more insidious as they provide MANY more services than a corp like Ben And Jerry's and therefore has a much greater impact on consumers and employees alike. Therefore, and to be dramatic, what Wal-Mart really does is spread like a cancer throughout the communities it services, and then to top it all off, drives small, independently owned businesses out of business. It's sickening!

The Tower

04-11-2006, 10:00 AM

..eh....I don't even know why I got involved in the issue at all really....
Neither do I.

DrummerDeanna

04-11-2006, 10:13 AM

Neither do I.

You didn't :shrug:

Or is that a sad attempt at jabbing me for getting involved. Wouldn't it be easier to simply ignore me? Thanks.

The Tower

04-11-2006, 10:31 AM

You didn't :shrug:
Nope.

Or is that a sad attempt at jabbing me for getting involved.
Sad is such a subjective word.

Wouldn't it be easier to simply ignore me?
One would think.

Thanks.
Anytime.

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 10:32 AM

It's not really hypocritical, actually, I think it's very pragmatic rationale, I think people should think in terms of degrees which is what Amber is doing. You can't just lump everyone in the same pot because for example, Ben and Jerry's is not Wal-Mart. That's like saying your mean 3rd grade teacher is the equivalent of Hitler...not all mean people can be lumped into the same extreme category. I know that's not the tightest analogy but hey, it's too early in the morning for well thought out monologues! :laugh: I guess what I'm trying to say is that severity does matter, and so do degrees of corruption which makes Wally Mart all the more insidious as they provide MANY more services than a corp like Ben And Jerry's and therefore has a much greater impact on consumers and employees alike. Therefore, and to be dramatic, what Wal-Mart really does is spread like a cancer throughout the communities it services, and then to top it all off, drives small, independently owned businesses out of business. It's sickening!

I agree and that is why I said that everyone should do what their conscious allows them to do.

Interestingly, despite Wal Mart's bad acts, the economic and philanthropic good they do probably outweigh the bad things -I mean if we are talking scale here :shrug:

Finally, I think the hypocrisy lies in the finger pointing. For example, I know of no one who would not stop at that gas station I mentioned earlier, esp. when the alternative is walking 100 miles at night :laugh: So, people often lose their high toned morality when inconvenienced.

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 10:33 AM

. . . Sad is such a subjective word . . . .

I was sad when we left each other on Vegas - is that subjective enough ;)

Richard B

04-11-2006, 10:36 AM

you just brought up a memory~ i remember when "silkwood" came out, the kerr mcgee gas stations practically went out of business here, no one would use their services~
Funny how movies have a bigger impact than we would think. Look at Sideways. Now everyone is drinking Pinot and not Merlot. lol.

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 10:38 AM

Funny how movies have a bigger impact than we would think. Look at Sideways. Now everyone is drinking Pinot and not Merlot. lol.

I drink neither and HATED the movie :laugh:

Lord Child - I am sooooo anti anti today :eek: :laugh: :angel:

Richard B

04-11-2006, 10:41 AM

I drink neither and HATED the movie :laugh:

Lord Child - I am sooooo anti anti today :eek: :laugh: :angel:
No worries. I liked the movie, LOVE a damn good Merlot. But give me a Cab any day. And make it good. No chip tannin rich crap.

estranged4life

04-11-2006, 10:46 AM

Funny how movies have a bigger impact than we would think. Look at Sideways. Now everyone is drinking Pinot and not Merlot. lol.

that ever had an impact on me was the HBO produced movie "And the Band Played On" (Based off the book of the same name by the late Randy Schilt), Which showed the beginning of the AIDS pademic...And how FUBAR the US govt during the early 80's were towards it.

Sad that Mr.Schilt died from exactly the same disease that his book was written about.

cliffdweller

04-11-2006, 10:48 AM

I drink neither and HATED the movie :laugh:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know how much you hated it, blah, blah, blah. Sucks to you! :p :laugh:

DrummerDeanna

04-11-2006, 10:51 AM

Nope.

Sad is such a subjective word.

One would think.

Anytime.

:shrug: What the heck? Did I do something to you? This is completely uncalled for. Please, in the future, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all (at least directed at me - just put me on ignore or something).

The Tower

04-11-2006, 12:12 PM

:shrug: What the heck? Did I do something to you? This is completely uncalled for. Please, in the future, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all (at least directed at me - just put me on ignore or something).
I don't recall saying anything mean. I'm just surprised that after all that's gone on around here that you'd be jumping into this type of a thread. I thought you were totally disinterested in this kind of discourse, which is why I posted "Neither did I."

I started reading this thread and your back and forth with Richard B knocked me into Deja Vu Land.

amber

04-11-2006, 02:54 PM

That is hypocritical in the sense that you do so when it suits you. For example, you support many an industry and company that does bad things. I mean you smoke for goodness sake (or at least you used to) - that industry is hardly angelic :shrug: Moreover, you jetted off to Vegas with little care and no regard for the airline you used (some are way worse than others) as suggest you obtained the lowest price possible.

But, you can have the last word as I am not about to beat this horse to death because you have blinders on and want to sit there and preach about how good you are :laugh:

Just a quick note - I never, ever, ever mentioned myself, so I do not know to what you are referring.
And yet here, you address my point as if I had said something about myself. And then, after you addressed something I never actually said, you accused me of having blinders. Basically, you made up the whole thing about what I said, then argued with that (nonexistant) point, then insulted me.
Again - I never ever mentioned myself or my consuming habits at all. Never.
I appreciate your creativity in conjuring a whole argument out of thin air, nevertheless I don't like to be misrepresented. :)

P.S. - Smoke free for four months now, hurrah!

Also - it takes progressive thinkers and doers to foster change. It's funny how people think Californians have our heads in the clouds - whereever our heads are, it's a place that is progressive, inventive, and socially much more forward thinking than a lot of other states. Also, our environmental standards in many cases far exceed federal standards. But you go ahead and be "realistic". We'll work to help change things for the better while you're doing that.

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 03:31 PM

Just a quick note - I never, ever, ever mentioned myself, so I do not know to what you are referring.
And yet here, you address my point as if I had said something about myself. And then, after you addressed something I never actually said, you accused me of having blinders. Basically, you made up the whole thing about what I said, then argued with that (nonexistant) point, then insulted me.
Again - I never ever mentioned myself or my consuming habits at all. Never.
I appreciate your creativity in conjuring a whole argument out of thin air, nevertheless I don't like to be misrepresented. :)

P.S. - Smoke free for four months now, hurrah!

Also - it takes progressive thinkers and doers to foster change. It's funny how people think Californians have our heads in the clouds - whereever our heads are, it's a place that is progressive, inventive, and socially much more forward thinking than a lot of other states. Also, our environmental standards in many cases far exceed federal standards. But you go ahead and be "realistic". We'll work to help change things for the better while you're doing that.

^^^^^
so five minutes ago :wavey: :xoxo:

amber

04-11-2006, 03:35 PM

^^^^^
so five minutes ago :wavey: :xoxo:
Nice deflection, but you still misrepresented me, and insulted me for something you imagined I said.
I defy you to find one of my posts here where I mentioned myself. I know, it's hard for you to be wrong. But it's definitely rude of you to say "so five minutes ago" instead of acknowledging your mistake.
I mean, aren't you glad I told you? Do you want to go all around life reading things wrong, or reading things and then making up what they said? I would think not. :shrug: It's an opportunity to grow your cognitive reading skills. And giving me a "kissy" doesn't make up for your mistake. If you don't want to see posts from me like this, watch the insults based on literally nothing.

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 03:37 PM

Nice deflection, but you still misrepresented me, and insulted me for something you imagined I said.
I defy you to find one of my posts here where I mentioned myself. I know, it's hard for you to be wrong. But it's definitely rude of you to say "so five minutes ago" instead of acknowledging your mistake.
I mean, aren't you glad I told you? Do you want to go all around life reading things wrong, or reading things and then making up what they said? I would think not. :shrug: It's an opportunity to grow your cognitive reading skills. And giving me a "kissy" doesn't make up for your mistake. If you don't want to see posts from me like this, watch the insults based on literally nothing.

^^^

this is me not taking the bait - hookah :xoxo:

amber

04-11-2006, 03:46 PM

^^^

this is me not taking the bait - hookah :xoxo:

It's also you not admitting you made a mistake. Oh, I'm so suprised.

It's not bait, you didn't have to answer in the first place, I just wanted you to know that you were wrong, and you made something up. And most of all, I want you to quit doing that. If you're going to reply to me, at least read my posts.
Obviously it was way too much to ask for you to say "oops, I guess you didn't mention yourself, I'm sorry I said you were acting high and mighty and espousing how good you were, and then said you had blinders on based on that."
Yeah. it's even funnier that being right is so important to you that you won't admit it when the evidence is right here in the thread. Anyone, including you, could go back and read and see that I didn't mention myself. :laugh:

Again - not bait, just don't f*cking make up **** I said, and then insult me about it. Thanks, much appreciated. :wavey:

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 03:47 PM

It's also you not admitting you made a mistake. Oh, I'm so suprised.

It's not bait, you didn't have to answer in the first place, I just wanted you to know that you were wrong, and you made something up. And most of all, I want you to quit doing that. If you're going to reply to me, at least read my posts.
Obviously it was way too much to ask for you to say "oops, I guess you didn't mention yourself, I'm sorry I said you were acting high and mighty and espousing how good you were, and then said you had blinders on based on that."
Yeah. it's even funnier that being right is so important to you that you won't admit it when the evidence is right here in the thread. Anyone, including you, could go back and read and see that I didn't mention myself. :laugh:

Again - not bait, just don't f*cking make up **** I said, and then insult me about it. Thanks. :wavey:

Still putting that bait out there :laugh: :laugh: :xoxo: :xoxo:

Moony

04-11-2006, 03:51 PM

P.S. - Smoke free for four months now, hurrah!

:) That's awesome! Very happy for you

amber

04-11-2006, 04:00 PM

Still putting that bait out there :laugh: :laugh: :xoxo: :xoxo:

As long as you do what I say, you can be in denial all you want, because it's evident to anyone who wants to check that you are a** enough to:
1. make something up,
2. insult me with it,
3. not admit that you made it up, and then
4. not apologize. :laugh:

You answered, by the way. To really not take this "bait" you seem to think is happening, you wouldn't answer at all, you'd move on with your life and actually read my posts in the future. I understand that you're so hot to insult me that you may want to make things up; you have done that a few times before. But I still want it to stop. :laugh: :laugh: Seriously, you are hilarious.

It's funny how with everyone else you debate, you say things like: "If am wrong I will readily admit it, but I do not think I am" and act all nice, but with me, it seems to be the worst thing in the world that you could have possibly made a mistake. Do you have a thing with poor people, or women, or something, correcting you? Or non lawyers? Or just me? It's actually kind of fascinating, I can't imagine why I get this "special treatment". Could it mean that your ego is somehow more threatened when I find out you are wrong? I can't imagine why it would make a difference that it is me, but it sure seems to.
Anywhoo, musings on what is an obvious personal reluctance to admit I am right, and conversely that you were wrong, while talking to me. Baffling.

amber

04-11-2006, 04:01 PM

:) That's awesome! Very happy for you
THanks moon! Cool, yeah? :xoxo:

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 04:05 PM

As long as you do what I say, you can be in denial all you want, because it's evident to anyone who wants to check that you are a** enough to:
1. make something up,
2. insult me with it,
3. not admit that you made it up, and then
4. not apologize. :laugh:

You answered, by the way. To really not take this "bait" you seem to think is happening, you wouldn't answer at all, you'd move on with your life and actually read my posts in the future. I understand that you're so hot to insult me that you may want to make things up; you have done that a few times before. But I still want it to stop. :laugh: :laugh: Seriously, you are hilarious.

It's funny how with everyone else you debate, you say things like: "If am wrong I will readily admit it, but I do not think I am" and act all nice, but with me, it seems to be the worst thing in the world that you could have possibly made a mistake. Do you have a thing with poor people, or women, or something, correcting you? Or non lawyers? Or just me? It's actually kind of fascinating, I can't imagine why I get this "special treatment". Could it mean that your ego is somehow more threatened when I find out you are wrong? I can't imagine why it would make a difference that it is me, but it sure seems to.
Anywhoo, musings on what is an obvious personal reluctance to admit I am right, and conversely that you were wrong, while talking to me. Baffling.

Oooooo that bait is stale by now :xoxo: :xoxo: :wavey:

amber

04-11-2006, 04:09 PM

Oooooo that bait is stale by now :xoxo: :xoxo: :wavey:
Wow - do you really believe I said something about myself? Is that why you call this bait?
My first post wasn't even controversial, I was just pointing something out. I guess the fact that you can't admit you made a mistake is what makes it "bait"? Because otherwise it is just "a post". Seriously, what is it about me that makes you incapable of admitting you made a mistake?

strandinthewind

04-11-2006, 04:10 PM

Wow - do you really believe I said something about myself? Is that why you call this bait?
My first post wasn't even controversial, I was just pointing something out. I guess the fact that you can't admit you made a mistake is what makes it "bait"? Because otherwise it is just "a post". Seriously, what is it about me that makes you incapable of admitting you made a mistake?

stale stale stale stale stale :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Moony

04-11-2006, 04:11 PM

THanks moon! Cool, yeah? :xoxo:
Totally rad

Now stop it you two or you're getting a spankin'

JazmenFlowers

04-11-2006, 04:12 PM

Totally rad

Now stop it you two or you're getting a spankin'
funny you say that...I was just rummaging to find my paddle! :nod:

amber

04-11-2006, 04:24 PM

stale stale stale stale stale :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
wrong wrong wrong. :wavey:

I think I'll start making up things you say, then insulting you about them. :blob2:

amber

04-11-2006, 04:35 PM

Just for review in case anyone missed it:

I said this: Just because someone doesn't want to be mindful of their shopping and consuming, doesn't mean there aren't viable ways to do so. And once again, every little bit helps. If you want to be very, very mindful, that can take some extra effort, but it's still possible. I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me.

Strand quoted the above, then said this:

That is hypocritical in the sense that you do so when it suits you. For example, you support many an industry and company that does bad things. I mean you smoke for goodness sake (or at least you used to) - that industry is hardly angelic Moreover, you jetted off to Vegas with little care and no regard for the airline you used (some are way worse than others) as suggest you obtained the lowest price possible.

But, you can have the last word as I am not about to beat this horse to death because you have blinders on and want to sit there and preach about how good you are"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep, I was totally preaching about how good I am! With every word of my post!! It's all right here! :lol:
good times...

BTFLCHLD

04-11-2006, 04:45 PM

id ask a question but youd bite my head off :lol:

amber

04-11-2006, 05:06 PM

I know, you're such an arrogant hag.

:lol:

:lol:
maybe other times, but not this one....:p
good to see you! Now where's my spanking??? :xoxo:

SuzeQuze

04-11-2006, 05:08 PM

Funny how movies have a bigger impact than we would think. Look at Sideways. Now everyone is drinking Pinot and not Merlot. lol.

Omigod, "If anyone orders merlot, I AM OUT OF HERE!" :lol: That line was so funny.

Moony

04-11-2006, 05:10 PM

:lol:
maybe other times, but not this one....:p
good to see you! Now where's my spanking??? :xoxo:
;)
Well the stripper in bondage is on his way to your place right now.

amber

04-11-2006, 05:19 PM

;)
Well the stripper in bondage is on his way to your place right now.
Same one as last time? Hurray!

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 07:12 PM

As long as you do what I say, you can be in denial all you want, because it's evident to anyone who wants to check that you are a** enough to:
1. make something up,
2. insult me with it,
3. not admit that you made it up, and then
4. not apologize. :laugh:

You answered, by the way. To really not take this "bait" you seem to think is happening, you wouldn't answer at all, you'd move on with your life and actually read my posts in the future. I understand that you're so hot to insult me that you may want to make things up; you have done that a few times before. But I still want it to stop. :laugh: :laugh: Seriously, you are hilarious.

It's funny how with everyone else you debate, you say things like: "If am wrong I will readily admit it, but I do not think I am" and act all nice, but with me, it seems to be the worst thing in the world that you could have possibly made a mistake. Do you have a thing with poor people, or women, or something, correcting you? Or non lawyers? Or just me? It's actually kind of fascinating, I can't imagine why I get this "special treatment". Could it mean that your ego is somehow more threatened when I find out you are wrong? I can't imagine why it would make a difference that it is me, but it sure seems to.
Anywhoo, musings on what is an obvious personal reluctance to admit I am right, and conversely that you were wrong, while talking to me. Baffling.

um....he does it to me too.....so, you're not THAT special:lol:

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 07:20 PM

yep I was totally preaching about how good I am! With every word of my post!! It's all right here! :lol:

actually, you did!

I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me.

do you drive a car? Gas companies are heinous....
most every retail giant is guilty of sweatshop labor practices overseas....
tobacco companies are heinous (glad you are smoke free now, thats great!)

I think Jason's point was that people IN GENERAL are guilty of hypocrisy because when push comes to shove a lot of people will push aside their beliefs for various reasons (I myself cant afford to shop as green as I would like)
and he gave examples that pertained to you in particular that seemed to show your hypocrisy (smoking, plane trip)
I dont know how accurate the examples are (apparently the smoking one is 4months too late!) but I think if you were honest with yourself, you could probably come up with examples that violate your personal code.
Groceries? all pretty much owned by big AG which forced all the small farmers out of business.
fibers/fabrics? Monsanto and Dupont are evil.
medicines? Ive heard many of those big name producers are more in the business of keeping us sick than they are helping us get healthy.

amber

04-11-2006, 07:31 PM

actually, you did!

No, I merely stated that I read a larger portion of enviro news than perhaps most, so maybe Strand hadn't seen the same information as I had. In fact, I never even made a value statement about that, either - You know, I didn't say I was better because of what I read.
Additionally, I never claimed or talked about what conservation/socially responsible actions I do or do not take. Not one mention.
I know what Jason's point was, I just don't want him to make up something I am talking about, then insult me about it. That's my point. And no, I don't drive a car, which is the first time I've mentioned anything about my habits here in this thread.
Also, I just want to add that many people are not hypocritical, and act according to what they believe even if it is more inconvenient than another choice. Some do in small ways, some in large. Thank goodness.

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 07:42 PM

No, I merely stated that I read a larger portion of enviro news than perhaps most, so maybe Strand hadn't seen the same information as I had. In fact, I never even made a value statement about that, either - You know, I didn't say I was better because of what I read.
Additionally, I never claimed or talked about what conservation/socially responsible actions I do or do not take. Not one mention.
I know what Jason's point was, I just don't want him to make up something I am talking about, then insult me about it. That's my point. And no, I don't drive a car, which is the first time I've mentioned anything about my habits here in this thread.
Also, I just want to add that many people are not hypocritical, and act according to what they believe even if it is more inconvenient than another choice. Some do in small ways, some in large. Thank goodness.

when you say this
But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me.
you come across as though you're somehow better for doing so.

I know that I would LOVE to be able to buy organic, but I can barely afford to shop for food at ALL. so there goes a chance for me to make a difference.
But we all wear clothes and Monsanto and DuPont are heinous big name corporations that we all patronize because the market is flooded with nothing but their products.

Big AG forces out small family farms, but I cant afford to buy from the little guy, even though I wish I could...

I guess if we care we will do what we can and increase it as our ability to do better increases.

and if anyone is serious about choosing green companies, the greenpages (http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/greenpages/) link I posted a page or two back is a good resource to find green companies and free trade companies.

by the way, I also want to congratulate you Amber on 4months smoke free. I know thats a very hard habit to quit...

paleshadow

04-11-2006, 07:45 PM

P.S. - Smoke free for four months now, hurrah!

Way to go Amber! That's really great. I've never smoked, but my sister just quit recently so I know how hard it can be. Good for you!

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 07:57 PM

I think Jason's point was that people IN GENERAL are guilty of hypocrisy because when push comes to shove a lot of people will push aside their beliefs for various reasons (I myself cant afford to shop as green as I would like)
and he gave examples that pertained to you in particular that seemed to show your hypocrisy (smoking, plane trip)

I disagree - if when push comes to shove you cast aside your standards because of some other influence, then the result becomes your standards. If your beliefs are that fragile, then you can't claim to hold them, can you?

For instance if you moan about air pollution and fossil fuels disappearing, and you drive a four-litre SUV, then your green credentials are just zero.

DavidMn

04-11-2006, 08:00 PM

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:04 PM

Exactly. I might sound ignorant in asking this, but what would youn say is the general attitude of the English poeple towards gays? Are you guys pretty open? hostile? I dont mean to paint with a broad brush, just curious.:)

Pretty open really - especially in the cities. I'm sure that in some rural areas it's still a bit frowned upon, but generally there's no problem. Just as an example, not so long ago if an entertainer came out then his career would be killed stone dead, but now it seems to be an advantage :laugh:

DavidMn

04-11-2006, 08:05 PM

Pretty open really - especially in the cities. I'm sure that in some rural areas it's still a bit frowned upon, but generally there's no problem. Just as an example, not so long ago if an entertainer came out then his career would be killed stone dead, but now it seems to be an advantage :laugh:Well, that's good to hear. I never had a problem the 2 times I was there. You're a pretty nice bunch of people actually.:cool:

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 08:06 PM

I disagree - if when push comes to shove you cast aside your standards because of some other influence, then the result becomes your standards. If your beliefs are that fragile, then you can't claim to hold them, can you?

For instance if you moan about air pollution and fossil fuels disappearing, and you drive a four-litre SUV, then your green credentials are just zero.

it takes money to be that principled. as I said, I cant afford to shop organic, though I would love to. It doesnt change my beliefs, but I cant realize my preference because the choice is to starve which I practially do anyway since I only buy food once every 3 months or so. (aside from milk eggs and bread which I get at my gas station)

I also dont believe in the willy nilly harvesting of trees but I live in a wooden house. So, whenever possible, I actively campaign against wasteful logging rules, conserve/recycle paper and plant trees.

By the way, there are mitigating actions that can reduce fossil fuel emissions and CA is quite successful in reducing smog emissions. Im not moaning about fossil fuels going bye bye, however I do think pollution is something that should be addressed and there is more than one way to skin a cat.
It is possible to be a good steward of resources (use them wisely) rather than lock them up and not use them ever again.
Alternatively there are OTHER energy sources I think we should be exploring.

so, yes I drive a jeep, but the last smog test I took, the emissions were so low, they were far better than the standard recommended. Sorry about that chief.

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:07 PM

Well, that's good to hear. I never had a problem the 2 times I was there. You're a pretty nice bunch of people actually.:cool:

Aw, you're so kind :nod:

DavidMn

04-11-2006, 08:11 PM

Aw, you're so kind :nod:I'm pretty easy to get along with actually. Not too much bothers me. I look at it this way. Is it really worth it to stay mad over something that youll forget the next day?:)

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:15 PM

it takes money to be that principled. as I said, I cant afford to shop organic, though I would love to. It doesnt change my beliefs, but I cant realize my preference because the choice is to starve which I practially do anyway since I only buy food once every 3 months or so. (aside from milk eggs and bread which I get at my gas station)

I also dont believe in the willy nilly harvesting of trees but I live in a wooden house. So, whenever possible, I actively campaign against wasteful logging rules, conserve/recycle paper and plant trees.

By the way, there are mitigating actions that can reduce fossil fuel emissions and CA is quite successful in reducing smog emissions. Im not moaning about fossil fuels going bye bye, however I do think pollution is something that should be addressed and there is more than one way to skin a cat.
It is possible to be a good steward of resources (use them wisely) rather than lock them up and not use them ever again.
Alternatively there are OTHER energy sources I think we should be exploring.

so, yes I drive a jeep, but the last smog test I took, the emissions were so low, they were far better than the standard recommended. Sorry about that chief.

Sorry, I wasn't specifically addressing you - now I look at the real car thread and find you do drive an SUV - honest coincidence ;)

Organic food is expensive, no doubt about that, but here at least it's possible to be discerning without spending a fortune. Since you do drive a Jeep, how come you don't buy something that drinks less gas? I used to work for them and their cars were soooo thirsty. Maybe then you could afford to eat? A lot of people here are converting Cherokees to LPG which saves heaps of money. My van runs on LPG and it's half the price of ordinary fuel. Although having said that, you guys pay a lot less for regular fuel than we do, so maybe there's not so much advantage in switching.

There's nothing wrong with harvesting trees if the timber isn't wasted - wooden houses are a great example, they last for ages and there's no wastage. As you say, it's the wasteful logging which does the damage. People here are starting to look at wind turbines to power their homes too, which is great.

I suddenly realise how off-topic I am :o

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:16 PM

I'm pretty easy to get along with actually. Not too much bothers me. I look at it this way. Is it really worth it to stay mad over something that youll forget the next day?:)

Quite right. I have my breaking point, but I can't remember the last time I reached it :p

irishgrl

04-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Sorry, I wasn't specifically addressing you - now I look at the real car thread and find you do drive an SUV - honest coincidence ;)

Organic food is expensive, no doubt about that, but here at least it's possible to be discerning without spending a fortune. Since you do drive a Jeep, how come you don't buy something that drinks less gas? I used to work for them and their cars were soooo thirsty. Maybe then you could afford to eat? A lot of people here are converting Cherokees to LPG which saves heaps of money. My van runs on LPG and it's half the price of ordinary fuel. Although having said that, you guys pay a lot less for regular fuel than we do, so maybe there's not so much advantage in switching.

There's nothing wrong with harvesting trees if the timber isn't wasted - wooden houses are a great example, they last for ages and there's no wastage. As you say, it's the wasteful logging which does the damage. People here are starting to look at wind turbines to power their homes too, which is great.

I suddenly realise how off-topic I am :o

not off topic to ME! thanks for that clarification, no harm done :)

our gas prices are right around $3/gal give or take....I wish I could get a commuter car that saves on gas, but there again, it takes $$$. my jeep is paid for. and my credit right now is in the crapper because my ex owes me over $2000 for childcare and Im slowly sinking in the debt heap.

in the winter, where I live you need a 4W drive. I live at about 3000ft and we get hefty amounts of snow, up to my axles and above. its necessary.

I know that there are lots of choices people could be making. but again, it takes money to have principles. poor people dont really have any choices.

that doesnt mean I dont do what I can, but if it comes down to finances, Im not able to match my philosophical bent with my wallet. and Im not alone.

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:32 PM

our gas prices are right around $3/gal give or take....I wish I could get a commuter car that saves on gas, but there again, it takes $$$. my jeep is paid for. and my credit right now is in the crapper because my ex owes me over $2000 for childcare and Im slowly sinking in the debt heap.

in the winter, where I live you need a 4W drive. I live at about 3000ft and we get hefty amounts of snow, up to my axles and above. its necessary.

I know that there are lots of choices people could be making. but again, it takes money to have principles. poor people dont really have any choices.

that doesnt mean I dont do what I can, but if it comes down to finances, Im not able to match my philosophical bent with my wallet. and Im not alone.

I'd say poor people have fewer choices - certainly there are things that restrict you, like your ex, and needing a 4WD for the snow. But there are other things that everyone can do - recycling for example. It's catching on here, and everyone can get involved for free.

I often think that the wealthier you are, the more you contribute to the problem anyway - like making needless car journeys, jetting off abroad for your holidays and wasting food etc because you can afford to buy more than you need. Modern life makes it difficult for less well-off people to be green - years ago you could grow your own (organic) vegetables, but who the hell has time to do that now? Unless you drop out completely it's hard to be completely green. The thing is just never to lose sight of the ideal and do what you can, as you obviously do.

amber

04-11-2006, 08:33 PM

Way to go Amber! That's really great. I've never smoked, but my sister just quit recently so I know how hard it can be. Good for you!
Thank you very much! :nod:

I disagree - if when push comes to shove you cast aside your standards because of some other influence, then the result becomes your standards. If your beliefs are that fragile, then you can't claim to hold them, can you?

For instance if you moan about air pollution and fossil fuels disappearing, and you drive a four-litre SUV, then your green credentials are just zero.

I tend to agree somewhat - at least logically. At least I definitely feel guilty when I don't adhere to my standards. :D I think some people could easily have higher standards than they do, as well. I am hella, hella poor - so my standards are simple. (I make about $900 a month, and my rent is $675).
*EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS WHERE I DO TALK ABOUT MY CONSUMER HABITS* I ride my ass to a separate alternate store to get organic produce (the price difference here is negligable), I recycle everything, I am very mindful of the energy my house consumes, and recently, I started using coconut oil to cook things - I don't ever put the excess down the drain, I save it in a jar to be all thrown away at once. (oil is very bad for the water system) I give my little $25 to earthjustice or someone per year. I save my batteries to be taken to the properly dispose of facility (although they are older, I bought rechargables a year ago - so simple,but helpful - see?) I decided to basically stop eating meat, and I basically have - if I do buy meat, I buy free range, and I strive to not buy meat more than once a month. If I buy a hamburger, I feel really guilty - so I've cut that to about once a month as well, and am trying hard to resist that. Are these things earth shattering? No. But they are what I can do with my limited resources, and I know they help.
And I do strive to stick to my standards, because like you said - I feel I've let my own standards down, which are a part of me, if I don't do my best.
There are some choices that people don't have any "clean" options for - like flying - and I understand that. So, since there are so many times we don't have socially responsible choices, it is important (to me, and the earth) to seek out the ways that we do. Just my $.02.
Oh, and I volunteer at Earthjustice! (okay, I had to get work experience hours for my degree, but still! I could've gone somewhere else....:D )

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 08:44 PM

I tend to agree somewhat - at least logically. At least I definitely feel guilty when I don't adhere to my standards. :D I think some people could easily have higher standards than they do, as well. I am hella, hella poor - so my standards are simple. (I make about $900 a month, and my rent is $675).
*EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS WHERE I DO TALK ABOUT MY CONSUMER HABITS* I ride my ass to a separate alternate store to get organic produce (the price difference here is negligable), I recycle everything, I am very mindful of the energy my house consumes, and recently, I started using coconut oil to cook things - I don't ever put the excess down the drain, I save it in a jar to be all thrown away at once. (oil is very bad for the water system) I give my little $25 to earthjustice or someone per year. I save my batteries to be taken to the properly dispose of facility, I decided to basically stop eating meat, and I basically have - if I do buy meat, I buy free range, and I strive to not buy meat more than once a month. If I buy a hamburger, I feel really guilty - so I've cut that to about once a month as well, and am trying hard to resist that. Are these things earth shattering? No. But they are what I can do with my limited resources, and I know they help.
And I do strive to stick to my standards, because like you said - I feel I've let my own standards down, which are a part of me, if I don't do my best.
There are some choices that people don't have any "clean" options for - like flying - and I understand that. So, since there are so many times we don't have socially responsible choices, it is important (to me, and the earth) to seek out the ways that we do. Just my .02.

I totally agree. I think when I wrote my first post there I was wearing my no-compromise hat, which I like to wear sometimes. Of course there are restrictions on everyone, as irishgirl pointed out. I guess what I should have said was that if your standards are compromised by outside factors that you have a control over, then your standards are just toilet-bound.

I greatly admire you for what you do given your disposable income - I remember being so poor I couldn't eat properly and I'll never forget it. Mainly thanks to not having a girlfriend any more, and a better job, I'm lucky enough to be doing OK, but it's still ingrained in me not to waste anything. People think I'm weird but I still bitch at them for throwing food away or leaving lights on when they go out :nod:

Richard B

04-11-2006, 08:50 PM

People think I'm weird but I still bitch at them for throwing food away :nod:
What are you supposed to do? Eat everything till you puke? If people can't finish something on their plate, big deal, it's certainly not going to help anyone in need of food. Gonna Fed-Ex it or something?

The only exception is to give it to a homeless person (if you live in an urban area). Even then I've had homeless people grunt at me for offering a doggie bag and then refuse it. But then street people tend to not always be of their right mind.

bretonbanquet

04-11-2006, 09:02 PM

What are you supposed to do? Eat everything till you puke? If people can't finish something on their plate, big deal, it's certainly not going to help anyone in need of food. Gonna Fed-Ex it or something?

The only exception is to give it to a homeless person (if you live in an urban area). Even then I've had homeless people grunt at me for offering a doggie bag and then refuse it. But then street people tend to not always be of their right mind.

What you're supposed to do is not waste food, that's my point. I'm not talking about scraps on your plate, I'm talking about buying food that goes off before you cook it, or you just forget about because you don't give a crap. Why the sarky comments? Or did you think I raise hell when someone bins an apple core or something? Christ.

And that's a major generalisation about street people not being of their right mind.

Richard B

04-11-2006, 09:14 PM

What you're supposed to do is not waste food, that's my point. I'm not talking about scraps on your plate, I'm talking about buying food that goes off before you cook it, or you just forget about because you don't give a crap. Why the sarky comments? Or did you think I raise hell when someone bins an apple core or something? Christ.

LOL. No...not being snarky. The comment actually brought me back to being a kid growing up. I was a really bad eater. Not actually a bad eater, just a light eater. Anyway, my parents (I kid you not) made me sit at the dinner table until I finished everything off my plate. I would be at the table 2 hours after everyone was done. My parents turned the lights off in the dining room as well. A couple of times I shoved things into my napkin, but my Mom just unraveled it and put it back on my plate only to tell me that their are starving children and adults who would want this food. Course, being the cheeky kid I was, I would tell her that regardless of whether or not I eat this food on my plate, those same starving people would still be starving. Which is true, but then Mom's don't want to hear that logic.

I think one time my Dad gave up on me after 2 hours alone at the dinner table and then took me and my plate and made me eat it in the bathroom sitting on the toilet! LOL. What a jerk.

But again, even if you buy food, and it ends up rotting in the frig, it still will not solve world hunger. You just wasted your money. By the time you buy food, it's a done deal. Won't change a thing.

And that's a major generalisation about street people not being of their right mind.
Of course it was a sweeping generalization. It's taken from my own poll and reality walking in the streets of San Francisco. Sadly, many of them, if you even bother to look at them, let alone engage with them, are often times a bit off. Especially thanks to the Reagan years and the major cutbacks and release of mentaly ill patients. But that's another topic.

BTFLCHLD

04-11-2006, 09:58 PM

well restaurants could serve smaller portions :shrug:

SuzeQuze

04-12-2006, 07:37 AM

well restaurants could serve smaller portions :shrug:

The portions here really are obscene.

Anyway, my parents (I kid you not) made me sit at the dinner table until I finished everything off my plate. I would be at the table 2 hours after everyone was done.

That's awful and really harmful to kids, no wonder you don't care about wasted food! My friend's parents did this to her. I was there once when they were trying to make her eat brussel sprouts. But they were easier on her when I was there and after about 20 minutes threw them out. Still it was excruciating while it was going on.

bretonbanquet

04-12-2006, 08:17 AM

LOL. No...not being snarky. The comment actually brought me back to being a kid growing up. I was a really bad eater. Not actually a bad eater, just a light eater. Anyway, my parents (I kid you not) made me sit at the dinner table until I finished everything off my plate. I would be at the table 2 hours after everyone was done. My parents turned the lights off in the dining room as well.

Saving electricity as well as food :thumbsup:

Serously though, of course that's going to affect the way you look at food.

But again, even if you buy food, and it ends up rotting in the frig, it still will not solve world hunger. You just wasted your money. By the time you buy food, it's a done deal. Won't change a thing.

Who said anything about solving world hunger? It's just an attitude about not wasting stuff. The people I knew who bought food and let it go bad were the same people who left the central heating on when they went away for the weekend. W**kers.

cliffdweller

04-12-2006, 08:20 AM

Organic food is expensive, no doubt about that, but here at least it's possible to be discerning without spending a fortune. Since you do drive a Jeep, how come you don't buy something that drinks less gas? I used to work for them and their cars were soooo thirsty. Maybe then you could afford to eat? A lot of people here are converting Cherokees to LPG which saves heaps of money. My van runs on LPG and it's half the price of ordinary fuel. Although having said that, you guys pay a lot less for regular fuel than we do, so maybe there's not so much advantage in switching.

I know this is, as Strand put it earlier, "so five minutes ago" but my husband and I have an SUV and we hardly spend ANY money on gas. First of all, we are a one car household, and secondly we take the bus everyday to work and back so we really do conserve a lot of gas that way. And before anyone even THINKS of jumping all over me for having an SUV, let me just state that we HAVE to have a car with that much space because my husband has to lug his drums around quite frequently, and he can't do that in a fuel efficient car so there! :p :laugh:

strandinthewind

04-12-2006, 09:36 AM

actually, you did!

do you drive a car? Gas companies are heinous....
most every retail giant is guilty of sweatshop labor practices overseas....
tobacco companies are heinous (glad you are smoke free now, thats great!)

I think Jason's point was that people IN GENERAL are guilty of hypocrisy because when push comes to shove a lot of people will push aside their beliefs for various reasons (I myself cant afford to shop as green as I would like)
and he gave examples that pertained to you in particular that seemed to show your hypocrisy (smoking, plane trip)
I dont know how accurate the examples are (apparently the smoking one is 4months too late!) but I think if you were honest with yourself, you could probably come up with examples that violate your personal code.
Groceries? all pretty much owned by big AG which forced all the small farmers out of business.
fibers/fabrics? Monsanto and Dupont are evil.
medicines? Ive heard many of those big name producers are more in the business of keeping us sick than they are helping us get healthy.

Exactly!

It is so nice when we agree - however, I lambasted you in the leaky W thread - so fire away as you often do - in fact as all silly women usually do :p :p

strandinthewind

04-12-2006, 09:42 AM

I'd say poor people have fewer choices - certainly there are things that restrict you, like your ex, and needing a 4WD for the snow. But there are other things that everyone can do - recycling for example. It's catching on here, and everyone can get involved for free.

I often think that the wealthier you are, the more you contribute to the problem anyway - like making needless car journeys, jetting off abroad for your holidays and wasting food etc because you can afford to buy more than you need. Modern life makes it difficult for less well-off people to be green - years ago you could grow your own (organic) vegetables, but who the hell has time to do that now? Unless you drop out completely it's hard to be completely green. The thing is just never to lose sight of the ideal and do what you can, as you obviously do.

I agree with you to a point, but then I do not - SURPRISE :laugh:

I mean no one wants to live in a one room hut made of fallen palm prawns and trees while eating only fallen fruit. At least no one I know LOL.

So, people have to carve out their niche in this world. Certainly, wealthier people can do so more easily than less wealthy people. However, who draws that line. I certainly do not want anyone to draw it for me. So, I do all the little things I can to preserve the environment, like taking the train to work instead of driving (though I have to drive to the train station).

In sum, if everyone was a little more conscious of the little things they could do, the world would be better off and a better place.

strandinthewind

04-12-2006, 09:47 AM

I know this is, as Strand put it earlier, "so five minutes ago" but my husband and I have an SUV and we hardly spend ANY money on gas. First of all, we are a one car household, and secondly we take the bus everyday to work and back so we really do conserve a lot of gas that way. And before anyone even THINKS of jumping all over me for having an SUV, let me just state that we HAVE to have a car with that much space because my husband has to lug his drums around quite frequently, and he can't do that in a fuel efficient car so there! :p :laugh:

I show my dogs and have to have one as well. But, I try and justify that by taking the train to work when I can (I need the car here sometimes) - This saves me probably two tanks of gas a month and, I think, puts me ahead of many people with smaller cars who drive everywhere. Again, to me, it is all about the little things everyone can do and certainly no one is perfect. But, you have to try even though you fail at times.

strandinthewind

04-12-2006, 10:25 AM

On a related topic:

Wal-Mart files suit vs. seller of T-shirt
Conyers man runs Web site on 'Wal-ocaust'

By CHRISTINE VAN DUSEN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/12/06

As you might imagine, Wal-Mart doesn't enjoy having its business practices likened to the horrors of the Holocaust.

So the behemoth retailer has filed suit in federal district court in Atlanta against Charles Smith, the 48-year-old computer repairman from Conyers who made the comparison and marketed it on "I (heart) Wal-ocaust" T-shirts.

Smith "seeks to cloak his illegal commercial activities under the mantle of the First Amendment" and is "tarnishing Wal-Mart's trademarks and business reputation," the company's court filing said. "Smith's tasteless enterprise demonstrates that he is attempting to profit from his repulsive wares, not merely expressing his misguided opinions about Wal-Mart."

Smith, for his part, admits the "Wal-ocaust" term is tasteless. But he and his attorneys, part of Ralph Nader's Public Citizen Litigation Group, believe this is now about more than one man's opinion of Wal-Mart.

It's about a company trying to silence its critics and stomp on their rights, Smith writes on his Web site, www.walocaust.com. "Poor taste is nothing compared to immorality."

The brouhaha started last spring, after Smith's casual conversations with Wal-Mart employees and customers convinced him that corporations destroy human beings in a manner not unlike that of the Third Reich.

He created a logo and a Web site to market "Wal-ocaust"-themed products. Predictably, Wal-Mart hit him with a cease-and-desist order, which in turn inspired Smith to file suit on March 6 in federal district court.

He asked that a judge decide whether he could go forward with his business enterprise.

Wal-Mart recently filed a counterclaim, asking the court to dismiss Smith's complaint and prohibit him from displaying or producing the "Wal-ocaust" logo. The Arkansas-based company also asked to be paid an as-yet-undetermined amount in damages "sustained as a result of Smith's trademark infringement" and accounting for "Smith's profits arising from such activities," according to court documents.

Smith's profits so far? About $5.10, from the November sale of one "Wal-ocaust" T-shirt, he said.

Find this article at:
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/0412bizwalmart.html

David

04-12-2006, 10:42 AM

The brouhaha started last spring, after Smith's casual conversations with Wal-Mart employees and customers convinced him that corporations destroy human beings in a manner not unlike that of the Third Reich.

He created a logo and a Web site to market "Wal-ocaust"-themed products. Predictably, Wal-Mart hit him with a cease-and-desist order, which in turn inspired Smith to file suit on March 6 in federal district court.

He asked that a judge decide whether he could go forward with his business enterprise.

Wal-Mart recently filed a counterclaim, asking the court to dismiss Smith's complaint and prohibit him from displaying or producing the "Wal-ocaust" logo. What an idiot. However, I support the rights of the idiot to draw fatuous, nonsensical links between corporate activity & the Holocaust. I certainly don't want corporations running around, using the courts to gag citizens.

irishgrl

04-13-2006, 01:50 PM

Exactly!

It is so nice when we agree - however, I lambasted you in the leaky W thread - so fire away as you often do - in fact as all silly women usually do :p :p

silly? is that a sexist remark my dear?

oh and I got you back. the only reason you're getting away with your usual crapola without response is because my phone line at home is DOWN and I cant keep you in check as you so richly deserve..........ah well...........

however, as you said, it is nice when we agree. we should do it more often.
admit you're wrong and be cleansed! it'll only hurt for a little while :lol: