Lindsey Buckingham & Rick Vito: Comparing Styles

[David]

I thought we'd have a thread comparing styles & approaches in two of Fleetwood Mac's guitarists: Rick Vito & Lindsey Buckingham.

Our moral imaginations can calculate the passage of possibilities into probabilities when we compare Vito with Buckingham, as well as to all other extant literature of the Baby Boom.

From the perspective of that Baby Boom, what is new in Vito? in Buckingham? Where do Vito's & Buckingham's crucial originalities cluster? What is it about Vito's & Buckingham's tone, stance, mode of aural narrative, that was a difference that made a difference? One large area of answer should undoubtedly concern the representation of motivic arc within the melodic line as a child to a parent, or perhaps a subject to the State. Another should concern irony, which seems to me the element of style in the Fleetwood Mac opus that is still most often & most weakly misread, even by the latest-model music critics of the New York Times.

[TomBanks147]

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.

Lindsey was just being Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac but Rick seemed so uncomfortable and forced on stage. He was trying to be something he's not.

I like his playing but I just see him as a replacement ratehr than a true member (not a huge fan of behind the mask)

[madformac]

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.


Can you expand on that?

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey overthinks the big picture, while Rick would overthink the small details of his guitar playing (in a way that I don't believe Lindsey has the ability to overthink).

Lindsey was a visionary, Rick was a team player.

Lindsey is a modernist, Rick is a traditionalist.

Lindsey had something to prove, Rick already had an impressive resumé and didn't need to prove himself.

Lindsey was intense and angry, Rick was laid back and happy.

Lindsey is a brilliant finger stylist, Rick is billiant in every other facet of guitar playing.

I think both are amazing at what they do, and I think the band was lucky to have had both. I'd have either one in my band. Hell, I'd have BOTH in my band!

[SteveMacD]

The difference in my opinion is that Rick got more out of Fleetwood Mac than he put in.
If you're talking fan base, then I agree. Fleetwood Mac fans tend to be loyal, and I'm sure he's benefitted from his time in the band. But, given that he was only in the band for three years, on one album, and that his best material was left off, I think Rick had more to offer than what he was actually allowed to do.
Lindsey was just being Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac but Rick seemed so uncomfortable and forced on stage. He was trying to be something he's not.
Rick always seemed comfortable whenever he was doing his material or blues material. But, even Lindsey said he wasn't comfortable doing songs from the earlier incarnations (save for "Oh Well" which he liked). The way they released BTM sucked. There were better songs that could have been put on that album (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).

[chiliD]

If you're talking fan base, then I agree. Fleetwood Mac fans tend to be loyal, and I'm sure he's benefitted from his time in the band. But, given that he was only in the band for three years, on one album, and that his best material was left off, I think Rick had more to offer than what he was actually allowed to do.

Rick always seemed comfortable whenever he was doing his material or blues material. But, even Lindsey said he wasn't comfortable doing songs from the earlier incarnations (save for "Oh Well" which he liked). The way they released BTM sucked. There were better songs that could have been put on that album (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).


Amen & Hallelujah Brother! :blob2: :blob2:

[strandinthewind]

. . . (especially if Stevie hadn't released TOSOTM).

I always feel for La Nicks because since the inception of her solo career, the status or notion of FM doing another record has pretty much always been in the air as far as a it being a final thing. She seemingly is torn between putting out a solo record or waiting for FM. I do not blame her for not waiting on a less than sure thing, but do wish some of her solo stuff would have made a Mac record. I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble and Fire Burning.

Interestingly, TISL is the only one I know of that she stopped to do a FM record and who could blame her then, though clearly she would have released TISL, albeit likely to much less fanfare without The Dance and her stellar performances there.

[chiliD]

I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble...

(see my previous post)

[SteveMacD]

I always feel for La Nicks because since the inception of her solo career, the status or notion of FM doing another record has pretty much always been in the air as far as a it being a final thing. She seemingly is torn between putting out a solo record or waiting for FM. I do not blame her for not waiting on a less than sure thing, but do wish some of her solo stuff would have made a Mac record. I think Vito and BB would have been all over Whole Lotta Trouble and Fire Burning.
I don't JUST blame Stevie. To be sure "Red Rocks" and TOSOTM didn't help, but neither did the "Tango" video or "Greatest Hits" album. I would have released a "retro" album and a more serious, pop-rock album.

The "retro" album would have looked something like this:

Walk Another Mile
So Excited
Hi Ho Silver
Are You Mine
Living Without You
Whole Lotta Trouble
When The Sun Goes Down
Desiree
Roll With Me Henry
Tear It Up
Love Is Dangerous
I Still Miss Someone

While the more modern album would have looked like:

Skies The Limit
Victim Of Love
Rooms On Fire
Got No Home
Save Me
Affairs Of The Heart
In The Back Of My Mind
Behind The Mask
Stand On The Rocks
Do You Know
Intuition
Paper Doll
As Long As You Follow
The Game Of Love
Lizard People

This way, we would have had two new Fleetwood Mac albums (remember, most of the songs on the "retro" album were recorded by the band or by Stevie during this period) and no lame repackaging of songs we all had, videos that suck, or a lame solo album.

[David]

I'm confused.
:shocked: :shocked:

[SteveMacD]

I'm confused.
:shocked: :shocked:
We know, David. We know.

[Ghost_Tracker]

I thought we'd have a thread comparing styles & approaches in two of Fleetwood Mac's guitarists: Rick Vito & Lindsey Buckingham.

.


I'm not really sure if you mean technical things or not - I don't really have the musical knowledge to even take a guess at that. But just in general, I'd say that Rick Vito is an extremely talented guitarist who has the ability to play anything at all that they hand him very well, no matter what the difficulty level, speed, etc. He can also "put on a show" at the same time. (on-stage, etc.)

But Lindsey IS a guitarist, "through-and-through." He claimed he "had his guitar around his neck 24/7" - Stevie's joked in interviews and stuff that he pretty much slept with the damn thing and I think that's pretty much true. So in other words, it's VERY much a part of his "identity" - and a big part of how he views himself, etc. He "gets" the music, in a very deep way. Not putting Rick Vito down but he's basically a "hired gun" whereas Lindsey's a "professional gunslinger" - he's an artist, Rick Vito's (essentially) a technical guy. (Obviously I'm kinda generalizing.)
Sound about right???

On Edit: I think maybe also, whatever the technical differences are, a large part of them is caused by the differences in type of ambition that they have, or at least had. Not putting Vito down, but I think maybe his "embellishments," "interpretations" etc. on-stage were essentially designed to show off his (extraordinary) guitar work. Obviously Lindsey does the same thing (c'mon - wasn't he showing off at least a LITTLE in "So Afraid?" :shocked: ) - - - But Lindsey is ultimately playing his own songs most of the time and so he's more concerned with expressing the emotions he felt when he wrote the songs - much more concerned with that than demonstrating technical skills. He really is at "a whole 'nother level," in other words (i.m.o.) - the technical stuff is just so basic to him, and so second-nature, that he can concentrate on other things (such as conveying emotion, etc.)

So in other words - Vito is portraying an emotion. Lindsey is expressing one that he's actually feeling, or at least has felt. (For example, when he wrote the song.)

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.

Also - Buckingham has a very strong "home court" advantage in that not only did he write the songs, he's performed many of them so many times he can't even count. So songs such as "So Afraid," etc. are sort of "permanently etched" into his memory, whereas Rick Vito would have to re-memorize things, review them in his mind before a concert, etc. So since Lindsey doesn't (usually) have to take the time with re-learning many of the songs, he can concentrate on other things.

[David]

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.Somebody fed you quite a meal, there, ghost_tracker!

Diatonic just means using major & minor but not chromatic scales. In that sense, it describes just about all mainstream rock: Lindsey, Rick, Stevie, even Weird Al Yankovic.

[TomBanks147]

I'd have to agree with what most of Ghost tracker said.

Lindsey was intense and angry, Rick was laid back and happy.

I know you used "was" but I think thise impression of Lindsey being all angry is kind of an illusion. I think he is very passionate about his music and in interviews comes across as quite agressive but the interviewer only ever asks questions about the music and everythign else that falls into that catergory the industry, band politics etc.

In actuall fact I think hes pretty laid back and easy to get along with, although, yes, he is a perfectionist and does take his music career very serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im02umpBObM&search=lindsey%20buckingham

I've also heard it said that Lindsey B. uses a "diatonic" style of playing - I think maybe that means he has two different things going on at once. (That's very clear in "So Afraid," I think... ) I don't believe that R. Vito does that, at least not in the "Tango in the Night" concert.

I think what you mean is having multiple Rhythms going at the same time (Like a drummer has to) this is Lindsey style of playing, he stuck to it his entire career and has it perfectly crafted. It ‘Travis Picking’ and not a very common style of playing as far as the guitar goes.

I think “I’m so afraid” is a bad example of this though as he doesn’t actually use the technique for that song.

[QUOTE]I'm not really sure if you mean technical things or not - I don't really have the musical knowledge to even take a guess at that. But just in general, I'd say that Rick Vito is an extremely talented guitarist who has the ability to play anything at all that they hand him very well, no matter what the difficulty level, speed, etc. He can also "put on a show" at the same time. (on-stage, etc.)
[QUOTE]

Yeah, Rick is probably on paper the better guitarist. He does exactly that, plays anything someone hands him. He certainly can't use the alternating bass technique in the same way Lindsey can but for blues etc he has the upper hand.

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.

Like I said I only see him as a replacement rather than a member in his own right. I say he got more out of Fleetwood Mac than they got out of him because, he was only in the band for three years. Wrote 3 songs, 2 of which where Co-wrote. He was the wrong man for the band and he tried to be someone he's not. I think he needed fleetwood mac but not vise visa.

People on this forum say that Fleetwood mac are a nostilga band now (which is TOTALLY untrue) in actually fact the only time they have ever been one was durring the tango tour, and this was down to Mr Vito.

[madformac]

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.


Depends on the view. I'd say Lindsey is very robotic, or maybe just very rehearsed. On the recent tours I've only once dropped my jaw at him playing anything out of his normal comfort zone of predetermined licks on a song. (That was I'm So Afraid, Earls Court 29th Nov 2003). Doesn't mean he's not extremely talented it's just he sticks to the same formula. Be it writing, talking or playing. Nothing is spontanious. I think maybe Rick had a greater sense of improvisation although I would agree it was sadly underused in his tenure with this band.

[jbrownsjr]

Somebody fed you quite a meal, there, ghost_tracker!

Diatonic just means using major & minor but not chromatic scales. In that sense, it describes just about all mainstream rock: Lindsey, Rick, Stevie, even Weird Al Yankovic.

it means he plays in the key... thank God!!!

[chiliD]

But Lindsey IS a guitarist, "through-and-through." He claimed he "had his guitar around his neck 24/7" - Stevie's joked in interviews and stuff that he pretty much slept with the damn thing and I think that's pretty much true. So in other words, it's VERY much a part of his "identity" - and a big part of how he views himself, etc. He "gets" the music, in a very deep way. Not putting Rick Vito down but he's basically a "hired gun" whereas Lindsey's a "professional gunslinger" - he's an artist, Rick Vito's (essentially) a technical guy. (Obviously I'm kinda generalizing.)
Sound about right???

No. I think "professional gunslinger" in reference to Lindsey is about the same as using the term "philanthropic" regarding Slobodan Milosevic. Couldn't be FURTHER from the truth. "Gunslinger"? Lindsey? HA! If anything Lindsey is the poster-boy for being "Anti-gunslinger". To be a guitar "gunslinger", one needs to be spontaneous...that is definitely not a Lindsey trait.

And, as far as "had his guitar around his neck 24/7"...that is a phrase you can probably use to describe just about any full-time professional guitarist. So, Lindsey is not unique in that sense.

Furthermore, to use the trite and cliche' phrase "just a hired gun" regarding Rick Vito is really just admitting that you don't know enough about Rick Vito to really comment.

[jbrownsjr]

I think that once you reach a level of what these two have reached you have achieved many goals along with many dollars.

LB... Great acoustic feel for FMac songs (Second Hand News, IDWK, Chain, Book of Love etc.)
as for lead guitar, he was great at intensity and making the song climax live. I think he is an idiot in the press.

Rick to me was not as unique, maybe because he was a great studio player. I did not like his stage presence nor his goofy outfits. He looked like he blew out of Spandua Ballet (which i like btw). His lead guitar was much cleaner than LB. He was no spaz. I loved BTM and the outakes that you all have posted here. I also thought as a whole FM was incredible on BTM tour. But I still had the sense that Rick's spot felt a little uninspired on the non-blues FM. The blues jams they had were great.

[chiliD]

Yeah, Rick is probably on paper the better guitarist. He does exactly that, plays anything someone hands him. He certainly can't use the alternating bass technique in the same way Lindsey can but for blues etc he has the upper hand.

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.

"Robotic"? Rick Vito? Again, I think you're using the right description for the wrong guy...if you'd said that about Lindsey, I'd be chiming in with a "hallelujah, brother". Rick is anything BUT "robotic".

Look, there's really not any other rock guitarist who uses the Travis picking technique...so, it is really unfair to judge someone's technique that generally by saying "...he certainly can't use the alternating bass technique..." How the F*** do you know he "can't"? I've heard him...yes, he can, when it fits what he wants to accomplish. But, he certainly isn't LIMITED to playing in that fashion. Seems to me that Lindsey's chosen technique is more limiting than it is open & freeing.


Like I said I only see him as a replacement rather than a member in his own right. I say he got more out of Fleetwood Mac than they got out of him because, he was only in the band for three years. Wrote 3 songs, 2 of which where Co-wrote. He was the wrong man for the band and he tried to be someone he's not. I think he needed fleetwood mac but not vise visa.

I think this is a load of crap. "Replacement"...what the f*** was Lindsey in 1975? Yep, a f***ing replacement for Bob Welch. And, if you think about it, unless we're talking about Peter Green or Jeremy Spencer, ANY discussion of Fleetwood Mac guitarists that isn't about those two (or Danny Kirwan, who didn't replace anybody, he was just added) is about "replacements".

It's not Rick's fault that the band left his better material in the can. I think they were too friggin' afraid that a Fleetwood Mac guitarist other than Peter Green or Lindsey Buckingham would & could actually have a "hit" song. Both "Got No Home" & "Intuition" had "radio airplay" all over them, but nope, didn't get on the album.

People on this forum say that Fleetwood mac are a nostilga band now (which is TOTALLY untrue) in actually fact the only time they have ever been one was durring the tango tour, and this was down to Mr Vito.

Again, a pile of the stinky stuff. The band is living off of past glories...why else would they still pack their set with 30 year old songs and ignore their latest (and, if you'd buy into their pre-tour/album hype, their "greatest") material? And, The Dance was earth-shatteringly ground breaking? Once the Rumours crew reunited, it was the death-knell for the band. Nostalgia-city...stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Christine saw it coming...bailed when the bailing was good. Say You Will is exactly what it was, two solo albums molded together with a common rhythm section, there's barely continuity and the missing third songwriter is conspicuous in her absence.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but since the end of the Tusk tour, Fleetwood Mac has made the most idiotic decisions as far as band direction and marketing...they've only been successful IN SPITE of those decisions, not BECAUSE of them.

[SteveMacD]

Furthermore, to use the trite and cliche' phrase "just a hired gun" regarding Rick Vito is really just admitting that you don't know enough about Rick Vito to really comment.
To be fair, though, it's not like he got a great representation of his actual abilities during his tenure with the band. If all I knew of Rick were his contributions from "Hits" to "The Chain," I don't think I'd be too impressed, either. I think the band was too ambitious with BTM. That's why I suggested doing the "retro" album, as there was clearly a retro vibe going throughout the band, and a standard pop-rock album. I think the retro stuff was a distraction on TOSOTM and on BTM. I think where some of us get frustrated is that there was potential that was just never realized. For the record, I think Rick's "Intuition" could have been the biggest hit of the era. It had the feel and the sound of a great Fleetwood Mac radio classic.

[mylittledemon]

" The Dance was earth-shatteringly ground breaking? Once the Rumours crew reunited, it was the death-knell for the band. Nostalgia-city...stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Christine saw it coming...bailed when the bailing was good. Say You Will is exactly what it was, two solo albums molded together with a common rhythm section, there's barely continuity and the missing third songwriter is conspicuous in her absence.


But they sounded damn good on The Dance, at least! I was hoping "The Dance" wouldn't be the end. The fact they are making new music, and probably going to record another album takes them out of Nostalgia City, for me at least. I think their tour was a nostalgia fest, but Say You Will certainly was not. As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.

[chiliD]

I think where some of us get frustrated is that there was potential that was just never realized. For the record, I think Rick's "Intuition" could have been the biggest hit of the era. It had the feel and the sound of a great Fleetwood Mac radio classic.

Amen. "Got No Home" would've been another.

[DavidMn]

Here's my take. I prefer Lindsey, but it's just a personal preference. I dont know nearly enough about the technical aspects of music to make that judgement.:)

[HomerMcvie]

As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.
And as many of us have said, since SYW came out, it would have been a MUCH better album(read:balanced) with some of Chris' songs from ITM. It's been done a hundred times, but, here I go:

WTWCT
Friend
Thrown Down
Peacekeeper
Northern Star
Miranda
You Are
Say You Will
Steal Your Heart Away
Destiny Rules
Calumny
Say Goodbye

That's only 12 songs, which is PLENTY long, IMO. Okay, so I only gave Stevie 3 songs, and Lindsey got 5. I was trying to go 4 songs for each, to be fair, BUT, I went with the songs that I thought sounded most like FM songs.

[madformac]

But they sounded damn good on The Dance, at least! I was hoping "The Dance" wouldn't be the end. The fact they are making new music, and probably going to record another album takes them out of Nostalgia City, for me at least. I think their tour was a nostalgia fest, but Say You Will certainly was not. As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.

Yeah but I'm not holding my breath guessing what they are gonna play on the 30th Anniversary of Rumours tour next year. :rolleyes:

Now if they (Are you listening Mick?) promoted it as a Fleetwood Mac 40th Anniversary tour and dropped in some unexpected numbers AND had guest artists such as Christine, Bob Welch, Bob Weston, Jeremy Spencer, Rick Vito, Billy Burnette and Peter Green turn up and play the odd song at the odd venue that suited them it would be great. It would be a nostalgia tour yes but a more unpredictable and fun one. The biggest live piss off I have with this band is they don't really mix up the set list. Look at the Rolling Stones. 400 songs to be rehearsed for the tour. Every night they change it and throw unexpected numbers in.

As for SYW the only song that I thought sounded like a Mac number was Destiny Rules. Signature Nicks voice, McVie bass and LB guitars. Everything else, while there are good numbers in the album, just sounded like two solo records.

[David]

I did not like his stage presence nor his goofy outfits.We should discuss that because appearance is always relevant. As John Simon has noted, what happens on stage or screen is a gesamptkunstwerk, a complete aesthetic experience (part of the reason I can't stomach Fleetwood Mac any more--they all look gristly & spent).

Why did Rick dress like the Cowboy in Wonderland? When I saw him up there in his sequins & pink & black card suits, the Elton John song "Roy Rogers Is Riding Tonight" went through my head.

Most bizarre, & most disturbing, to channel a Gene Autry Ringling Bros. clown at a Fleetwood Mac concert. It's almost as bad as when Christine channeled Camille Paglia on the 1997 reunion tour.

[David]

And as many of us have said, since SYW came out, it would have been a MUCH better album(read:balanced) with some of Chris' songs from ITM.How, praytell, would throwing Christine songs on the album have improved the other tracks? By osmosis?

If you take "Say You Will" & add Christine songs, what you get is "Say You Will" + Christine songs.

It's just basic mathematics.

[HomerMcvie]

How, praytell, would throwing Christine songs on the album have improved the other tracks? By osmosis?

Maybe by pushing the ****tier songs OFF the record. That's not rocket science, David.

[David]

Amen. "Got No Home" would've been another.
Biggest hit of the era, I have no idea. That's probably like voting for Fattest Falstaff down at Anorexics Central.

Nothing from Fleetwood Mac would have been a big hit in 1990. Absolutely nothing. It doesn't make a bit of difference what was left in the can & what was included. Whatever was added or used to substitute would have had Greg Ladanyi all over it anyway, & as if that isn't bad enough, Greg Ladanyi ain't even the reason that millions of Americans didn't buy or like the album. Fleetwood Mac was nothing in the United States in 1990--& MacDougall don't start nattering on about the "lengthy, well-attended" tour & all that kabob. That proves nothing when it comes to albums & hits & airplay & all that. Fleetwood Muck was nothing in 1990, they were perilously close to nothing in 1987, & they're nothing today.

Except, obviously, for being a concert draw.

[David]

Maybe by pushing the ****tier songs OFF the record. That's not rocket science, David.Well, sure, you can always push the ****tier songs off the record. I'm not sure that, all in all, that really still makes a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Or, in the case of Tom O'Horgan's "Futz"--a slick farce out of a sow's rear.

[madformac]

Why did Rick dress like the Cowboy in Wonderland? When I saw him up there in his sequins & pink & black card suits, the Elton John song "Roy Rogers Is Riding Tonight" went through my head.


Rick's stage outfits did nothin' for me in terms of style. Then again who did look cool on that tour? All 80's styles and Seinfeld puffy shirts..

But what of Lindsey's farmer boy look in '82? Everytime I see the bug alien in Men In Black I think of Lindsey on that tour. :laugh:


How, praytell, would throwing Christine songs on the album have improved the other tracks? By osmosis?

If you take "Say You Will" & add Christine songs, what you get is "Say You Will" + Christine songs.

It's just basic mathematics.

That is true. But, to be crude for a second, I thought Christine's album beat the **** out of SYW in terms of melody , feel and emotion. Man is she missed.

[HomerMcvie]

That is true. But, to be crude for a second, I thought Christine's album beat the **** out of SYW in terms of melody , feel and emotion. Man is she missed.
Amen, brother! Preach it!
The heart and soul is gone. The balance. The only one who can still sing!:thumbsup:
She was the secret ingredient all these years. I've known that for a long time.

[Gazza]

Okay, Rick plays the blues, like a lot of people do, and he does it reasonably well. Lindsey plays, well, like only he does. Therefore he's better.

[chiliD]

Okay, Rick plays the blues, like a lot of people do, and he does it reasonably well. Lindsey plays, well, like only he does. Therefore he's better.

Rick plays the blues BETTER than MOST people do. Lindsey plays like he does and ONLY like he does. Rick's better. Live with it.

[jbrownsjr]

We should discuss that because appearance is always relevant. As John Simon has noted, what happens on stage or screen is a gesamptkunstwerk, a complete aesthetic experience (part of the reason I can't stomach Fleetwood Mac any more--they all look gristly & spent).

Why did Rick dress like the Cowboy in Wonderland? When I saw him up there in his sequins & pink & black card suits, the Elton John song "Roy Rogers Is Riding Tonight" went through my head.

Most bizarre, & most disturbing, to channel a Gene Autry Ringling Bros. clown at a Fleetwood Mac concert. It's almost as bad as when Christine channeled Camille Paglia on the 1997 reunion tour.
http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/paglia/art/left_paglia.jpg

[jbrownsjr]

We should discuss that because appearance is always relevant. As John Simon has noted, what happens on stage or screen is a gesamptkunstwerk, a complete aesthetic experience (part of the reason I can't stomach Fleetwood Mac any more--they all look gristly & spent).

Why did Rick dress like the Cowboy in Wonderland? When I saw him up there in his sequins & pink & black card suits, the Elton John song "Roy Rogers Is Riding Tonight" went through my head.

Most bizarre, & most disturbing, to channel a Gene Autry Ringling Bros. clown at a Fleetwood Mac concert. It's almost as bad as when Christine channeled Camille Paglia on the 1997 reunion tour.

Stage presence too, I just sort of got sick of billy smiling at rick and rick smiling at mick and christine smiling at billy... it was like I was at Magic Moutain watching them perform along the walkway to the roller coasters... where at least LB made you scared to look at him... and christine on the Mirage tour was pretty scary too look at as well.... but then again when i met Greg allman i was scared too!!

[SteveMacD]

Then again who did look cool on that tour?
I thought John looked pretty cool on that tour.

[chiliD]

Then again who did look cool on that tour?

I did. I was stylin' in my 25th row seat.

[jbrownsjr]

I dont think Christine's songs fit into SYW. SYW is just a mess, and Christine's album is really really simple. I think if Christine was on SYW she may have written differently and more frantically than having 2 conservative years in England's country side. Add Dashut and Buckingham to the production and I think CM's songs on SYW would have been superb, cos the lady can still sing.

For fact, I just listened to Gilmour's new album and he had a bundle of time to make it (on his houseboat on the Thames), and it too sounds extremely conservative. It's solid but not very adventurous... (even with orchestral arrangements)...

[jbrownsjr]

I did. I was stylin' in my 25th row seat.


did you have your Ace of hearts Tshirt on!! :lol:

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey plays, well, like only he does.

Lindsey plays like he does and ONLY like he does.

Lindsey wishes he were that unique. Finger-style guitar playing in pop-rock music, while not common, existed LONG before Lindsey Buckingham came along. Hell, Lindsey's not even the BEST finger-style guitarist rock ever produced. Roger McGuinn is considerably better, considerably more significant, and considerably more inventive, than Lindsey Buckingham could ever pray to be. (And, McGuinn wasn't even the best guitarist from the Byrds! That was Clarence White.)

What Lindsey does is really good, but nothing too special. Any half-way decent classical, folk, or bluegrass guitarist would find Lindsey's style just a few steps above elementary. And, Lindsey Buckingham himself would be the first to admit this.

Neither Buckingham nor Nicks were great because of their technique. They were great personalities, which is really more important than being a great technician in terms of being a rock star. There's a reason why the Beatles are in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame and Yes isn't. But there's no way in hell anybody would consider for a second that John, Paul, George, and Ringo were better or more original than Jon, Steve, Chris, Alan, and Rick. The Beatles were good, not great, from a technical perspective, but they had the personality factor.

[SteveMacD]

I did. I was stylin' in my 25th row seat.


{Insert mullet joke here}

[David]

Stage presence too, I just sort of got sick of billy smiling at rick and rick smiling at mick and christine smiling at billy... it was like I was at Magic Moutain watching them perform along the walkway to the roller coasters.They all had their geeky "let's rock" faces on the whole time. It was patent & see-through, the sort of thing that drives hip rock critics like me & Greil Marcus to belly right up to the bar. It was shocking. The band was adult contemporary all of a sudden. It was at that point that I decided I may as well listen to Emanuel Feuermann. Fleetwood Mac was done flaying the skin off the Booboisie.

And then it began to occur to me: Fleetwood Mac is so silly & stupid, like Pop Rocks at a kid's birthday party at Farrell's, with the volcano surprise ice cream sundae being lit up & served to a worried youngster, who can't drive himself home because he's only 7, & his mom & dad are trying to punish him for being a year older than he was last year, so they hide the cards & checks he gets from his Aunts Sharon & Lois & finally give those to the poor, disillusioned kid three days after his birthday, after the pain has passed & has been replaced by a dull, thudding no-nonsense approach to life & the arts, whether it be a torn-up old Mary Poppins LP that's been through the ringer, yellowing with antiquity, & smelling of pasteboard & starched milk on the upper lips of pals at grade school, or of the latest hep-scat DVD from Criterion with so much crap in the way of commentary & extras on it that you can't even remember why you bought the damn thing in the first place.

Anyway, that's what Fleetwood Mac became to me.

[SteveMacD]

And then it began to occur to me: Fleetwood Mac is so silly & stupid, like Pop Rocks at a kid's birthday party at Farrell's, with the volcano surprise ice cream sundae being lit up & served to a worried youngster, who can't drive himself home because he's only 7, & his mom & dad are trying to punish him for being a year older than he was last year, so they hide the cards & checks he gets from his Aunts Sharon & Lois & finally give those to the poor, disillusioned kid three days after his birthday, after the pain has passed & has been replaced by a dull, thudding no-nonsense approach to life & the arts, whether it be a torn-up old Mary Poppins LP that's been through the ringer, yellowing with antiquity, & smelling of pasteboard & starched milk on the upper lips of pals at grade school, or of the latest hep-scat DVD from Criterion with so much crap in the way of commentary & extras on it that you can't even remember why you bought the damn thing in the first place.
Well isn't that special...

http://www.preemptivekarma.com/churchlady1.jpg

[David]

What Lindsey does is really good, but nothing too special. Any half-way decent classical, folk, or bluegrass guitarist would find Lindsey's style just a few steps above elementary. And, Lindsey Buckingham himself would be the first to admit this.

Neither Buckingham nor Nicks were great because of their technique. They were great personalities, which is really more important than being a great technician in terms of being a rock star. There's a reason why the Beatles are in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame and Yes isn't. But there's no way in hell anybody would consider for a second that John, Paul, George, and Ringo were better or more original than Jon, Steve, Chris, Alan, and Rick. The Beatles were good, not great, from a technical perspective, but they had the personality factor.You are so far off the mark that you're probably wondering right about now just where dinner is.

That's what happens when a sociologist trips around in the deeper, richer, darker territory that is aesthetics. He gets lashed about in the thicket of art like a kitten with a tigress by the tail.

[SteveMacD]

You are so far off the mark that you're probably wondering right about now just where dinner is.

That's what happens when a sociologist trips around in the deeper, richer, darker territory that is aesthetics. He gets lashed about in the thicket of art like a kitten with a tigress by the tail.
I've Got A Tigress By The Tail, it's plain to see;
I won't be much when you get thru' with me.
Well, I'm a losing weight and a turnin' mighty pale.
Looks like I've Got A Tigres By The Tail.


http://www.thehagertwins.com/File0345.jpg

[jbrownsjr]

They all had their geeky "let's rock" faces on the whole time. It was patent & see-through, the sort of thing that drives hip rock critics like me & Greil Marcus to belly right up to the bar. It was shocking. The band was adult contemporary all of a sudden. It was at that point that I decided I may as well listen to Emanuel Feuermann. Fleetwood Mac was done flaying the skin off the Booboisie.

And then it began to occur to me: Fleetwood Mac is so silly & stupid, like Pop Rocks at a kid's birthday party at Farrell's, with the volcano surprise ice cream sundae being lit up & served to a worried youngster, who can't drive himself home because he's only 7, & his mom & dad are trying to punish him for being a year older than he was last year, so they hide the cards & checks he gets from his Aunts Sharon & Lois & finally give those to the poor, disillusioned kid three days after his birthday, after the pain has passed & has been replaced by a dull, thudding no-nonsense approach to life & the arts, whether it be a torn-up old Mary Poppins LP that's been through the ringer, yellowing with antiquity, & smelling of pasteboard & starched milk on the upper lips of pals at grade school, or of the latest hep-scat DVD from Criterion with so much crap in the way of commentary & extras on it that you can't even remember why you bought the damn thing in the first place.

Anyway, that's what Fleetwood Mac became to me.


Good Lord give me one of those vicoden.

[HomerMcvie]

I've Got A Tigress By The Tail, it's plain to see;
I won't be much when you get thru' with me.
Well, I'm a losing weight and a turnin' mighty pale.
Looks like I've Got A Tigres By The Tail.


http://www.thehagertwins.com/File0345.jpg
Thanks for that pic, Steve.
I've got a Fender Buck Owens Tele, red, white, and blue sparkle. I have a friend, who kinda knows Buck's secretary. I sent the pick guard to him, for an auto graph. He didn't think that would do, and had it engraved for me, along with his signature engraved:
To David Bxxxx
The Twang's The Thing
Buck Owens("signature" engraved)
July 30, 1999

His secretary told me about it, and I offered to pay for the engraving. She said Buck wouldn't hear of it. Now that's a class act, and how to treat your fans.:thumbsup:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That is true. But, to be crude for a second, I thought Christine's album beat the **** out of SYW in terms of melody , feel and emotion. Man is she missed.

AMEN!

melody, feel and emotion...

Just what Chris is best at...;)

[SteveMacD]

Thanks for that pic, Steve.
I've got a Fender Buck Owens Tele, red, white, and blue sparkle. I have a friend, who kinda knows Buck's secretary. I sent the pick guard to him, for an auto graph. He didn't think that would do, and had it engraved for me, along with his signature engraved:
To David Bxxxx
The Twang's The Thing
Buck Owens("signature" engraved)
July 30, 1999

His secretary told me about it, and I offered to pay for the engraving. She said Buck wouldn't hear of it. Now that's a class act, and how to treat your fans.:thumbsup:
Absolutely. Buck's always been one of my favorites. (BTW, I can't tell you how much I envy you for having the Buck Tele alone, far less having it engraved! SUPER cool! :thumbsup: )

[jbrownsjr]

Absolutely. Buck's always been one of my favorites. (BTW, I can't tell you how much I envy you for having the Buck Tele alone, far less having it engraved! SUPER cool! :thumbsup: )

i thought u were talking about Buck as LB haha!

[HomerMcvie]

i thought u were talking about Buck as LB haha!
Nerd!:laugh: :wavey: :xoxo:

[HomerMcvie]

Absolutely. Buck's always been one of my favorites. (BTW, I can't tell you how much I envy you for having the Buck Tele alone, far less having it engraved! SUPER cool! :thumbsup: )
I'd sell it for an insane amount! I certainly hope to never have to. It's the guitar I'd most like to be buried with(damn, I forgot about that cremation thing I've requested). While burying it might seem stupid, burning it into ash seems really stupid. I hope to die a slow death, so I can take care of all this stuff.:o

I have a letter from his secretary, on his radio station's stationary(KUZZ- yeah I had to go look at the letter, to remember the call letters) framed, hanging in my music room. She explains how Buck's afraid that any ink might rub off, so would I "mind" if he had it engraved for me, instead.
I don't think so, Scooter! Engrave away!

[dontlookdown]

what's to compare?


a unique bold style vs. a tired mediocre style?

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey style is quite tired and mediocre, and quite limiting for the band. I think he should hang it up.
:blob2: :blob1: :blob2:















:lol: :lol: :lol: Just pulling your chain, Buckhead.

[macfan 57]

Thanks for that pic, Steve.
I've got a Fender Buck Owens Tele, red, white, and blue sparkle. I have a friend, who kinda knows Buck's secretary. I sent the pick guard to him, for an auto graph. He didn't think that would do, and had it engraved for me, along with his signature engraved:
To David Bxxxx
The Twang's The Thing
Buck Owens("signature" engraved)
July 30, 1999

His secretary told me about it, and I offered to pay for the engraving. She said Buck wouldn't hear of it. Now that's a class act, and how to treat your fans.:thumbsup:

Wow, that's a great story. What a classy thing for Mr. Owens to do.:thumbsup:

[macfan 57]

I dont think Christine's songs fit into SYW. SYW is just a mess, and Christine's album is really really simple. I think if Christine was on SYW she may have written differently and more frantically than having 2 conservative years in England's country side. Add Dashut and Buckingham to the production and I think CM's songs on SYW would have been superb, cos the lady can still sing.

I agree. It took her a few years to make the album since she worked on it at her own pace.... whenever she felt like it. And, it was mostly just her & her nephew and a few other friends. I think that's why it has such a warm, intimate feel to it.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree. It took her a few years to make the album since she worked on it at her own pace.... whenever she felt like it. And, it was mostly just her & her nephew and a few other friends. I think that's why it has such a warm, intimate feel to it.

exactly as much as i want her to be adventurous, that wasn't her concept or intent

[TomBanks147]

As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.


Tusk is just as much a ‘Jumbled mess’. “the Ledge” and “storms” on the same album? “Beautiful child” leading into “Walk a thin line”? Can hardly say it’s NOT a jumbled mess. Tusk also doesn’t feel like a Fleetwood Mac album (deliberately) but is still IS a Fleetwood Mac album, as is say you will. (Probably my two favourite Mac albums, Tusk and SYW)

Say You Will is exactly what it was, two solo albums molded together with a common rhythm section, there's barely continuity and the missing third songwriter is conspicuous in her absence.

How do you work that out? Yes, Lindsey’s work was originally going to be a solo album but during the writing process when it was going to be a solo album Mick was already present just jamming around in the studio.

Stevie wrote her songs for Fleetwood Mac, not a solo album. Lindsey gave his imput towards them and came up with guitar parts. John did the same, working out Bass lines for both Lindsey and Stevie. Lindsey produced a large part of the album.

John and Mick both said themselves that SYW is the album they have been MOST present on out of any Fleetwood Mac album. How can it be anything but a Fleetwood Mac album? Every Mac album has been the moulding together of there songs the various writers have come up with. Conclusion, your just VERY biased. Why, I don’t know maybe you Miss Christine?

But they sounded damn good on The Dance

They sure did. Just because the band went for the bigger epic sound rather than the rough raw sounds of the 70’s (both of which are great) doesn’t make them nostalgic. Put it into perspective. (The guys on hear that can slag of LB all day but don’t have a bad word to say about Rick, lets look at when he was in the band)

The set list for “Behind the Mask”

01. Say You Love Me
02. The Chain
03. Dreams
04. Rhiannon
05. Isn't It Midnight
06. Save Me
07. Stop Messin' Around
08. Another Woman
09. Landslide
10. World Turning
11. Gold Dust Woman
12. In The Back Of My Mind
12. Everywhere
13. Stand on the Rock
14. Little Lies
15. Stand Back
16. When The Sun Goes Down
17. You Make Loving Fun
18. Go Your own Way
19. Love Is Dangerous
20. Tear It Up
21. Don't Stop
22. Songbird

FOUR songs of “Behind the mask” where actually played. FOUR!!!!!! Some of the songs performed where wrote by a guy that was no longer in the band. That is Nostalgic. Now compared to the Dance (Which was a reunion tour, not a tour for an album) this tour also saw them play FOUR new songs, the difference being, Behind the mask was a tour for an album, the Dance was a reunion.

The songs but Big Love, Go insane, The chain, Silver Springs, say you love me, I’m so afraid and Everywhere where all tweaked (some more than others. In some cases though you could claim they where new songs) apposed to the “behind the mask” and “tango” tours “the Dance” was NOT nostalgic.

Rick Vito and Billy are the only two members of Fleetwood Mac that I don’t care for and they certainly should not of been in the band. This guy said ti in one.

a unique bold style vs. a tired mediocre style?

[wondergirl9847]

What IS a Fleetwood Mac album? Is there a formul....wait...if they followed a formula, Lindsey would crap himself. :laugh: Okay, so there is no formula. I love SYW and have all the songs (sans a couple) on my iTunes playlist. I love that each and every FM album is different...going all the way back to the beginning. :thumbsup:

[David]

Tusk is just as much a ‘Jumbled mess’. “the Ledge” and “storms” on the same album? “Beautiful child” leading into “Walk a thin line”? Can hardly say it’s NOT a jumbled mess. Tusk also doesn’t feel like a Fleetwood Mac album (deliberately) but is still IS a Fleetwood Mac album, as is say you will. (Probably my two favourite Mac albums, Tusk and SYW)

How do you work that out? Yes, Lindsey’s work was originally going to be a solo album but during the writing process when it was going to be a solo album Mick was already present just jamming around in the studio.

Stevie wrote her songs for Fleetwood Mac, not a solo album. Lindsey gave his imput towards them and came up with guitar parts. John did the same, working out Bass lines for both Lindsey and Stevie. Lindsey produced a large part of the album.

John and Mick both said themselves that SYW is the album they have been MOST present on out of any Fleetwood Mac album. How can it be anything but a Fleetwood Mac album? Every Mac album has been the moulding together of there songs the various writers have come up with. Conclusion, your just VERY biased. Why, I don’t know maybe you Miss Christine?No, I think there's something legitimately more to be said about the sense that a few of us have of the disconnectedness among the LB tracks & the SN tracks on Say You Will. It has more to do with the time frame: If you look at the stretch of time involved in the tracking for the album, SYW has by far the longest time frame of any FM album ever recorded. It's approximately seven or eight years, which is just ungodly. The vast majority of the Buckingham songs were tracked seven or eight years before the SN songs, & that extreme disparity is obvious in the sonic environment. The ambience is fundamentally disparate from LB song to SN song. On past albums, that disparateness in environment & ambience didn't exist because the tracks were basically recorded in the same two studios (or single studio in the case of Tusk) within the same time frame, & that makes a big difference in sound.

On Tusk, for example, Lindsey's songs obviously sound different from Stevie's songs, but they don't sound as if they were recorded in a different ERA with a different era's equipment & technology. THAT'S what we're talking about. "Sisters of the Moon" came out of the same aural timespace as "The Ledge" or "Walk a Thin Line" -- in that regard, they're really all of a piece. The disjointedness of Tusk is one of songwriting, not of studio vibe & technology.

But this isn't the case with SYW. Lindsey's songs sound as if they came from different eras & different locales -- they in fact were, & all the mixing & mastering in the world didn't hide that fact. The drummer on 'Miranda' sounds like a 48-year-old drummer, & the drummer on 'Thrown Down' sounds like a 56-year-old drummer, & the two tracks are wholly unrelated in band vibe -- even down to minor things like what the walls in the particular studio were made of & how that affected the ambience. SYW was total patchwork. Tusk is a patchwork of styles & sensibilities, but not of sound & ambience & certainly not of technology.

[jbrownsjr]

Tusk is just as much a ‘Jumbled mess’. “the Ledge” and “storms” on the same album? “Beautiful child” leading into “Walk a thin line”? Can hardly say it’s NOT a jumbled mess. Tusk also doesn’t feel like a Fleetwood Mac album (deliberately) but is still IS a Fleetwood Mac album, as is say you will. (Probably my two favourite Mac albums, Tusk and SYW)



How do you work that out? Yes, Lindsey’s work was originally going to be a solo album but during the writing process when it was going to be a solo album Mick was already present just jamming around in the studio.

Stevie wrote her songs for Fleetwood Mac, not a solo album. Lindsey gave his imput towards them and came up with guitar parts. John did the same, working out Bass lines for both Lindsey and Stevie. Lindsey produced a large part of the album.

John and Mick both said themselves that SYW is the album they have been MOST present on out of any Fleetwood Mac album. How can it be anything but a Fleetwood Mac album? Every Mac album has been the moulding together of there songs the various writers have come up with. Conclusion, your just VERY biased. Why, I don’t know maybe you Miss Christine?



They sure did. Just because the band went for the bigger epic sound rather than the rough raw sounds of the 70’s (both of which are great) doesn’t make them nostalgic. Put it into perspective. (The guys on hear that can slag of LB all day but don’t have a bad word to say about Rick, lets look at when he was in the band)

The set list for “Behind the Mask”

01. Say You Love Me
02. The Chain
03. Dreams
04. Rhiannon
05. Isn't It Midnight
06. Save Me
07. Stop Messin' Around
08. Another Woman
09. Landslide
10. World Turning
11. Gold Dust Woman
12. In The Back Of My Mind
12. Everywhere
13. Stand on the Rock
14. Little Lies
15. Stand Back
16. When The Sun Goes Down
17. You Make Loving Fun
18. Go Your own Way
19. Love Is Dangerous
20. Tear It Up
21. Don't Stop
22. Songbird

FOUR songs of “Behind the mask” where actually played. FOUR!!!!!! Some of the songs performed where wrote by a guy that was no longer in the band. That is Nostalgic. Now compared to the Dance (Which was a reunion tour, not a tour for an album) this tour also saw them play FOUR new songs, the difference being, Behind the mask was a tour for an album, the Dance was a reunion.

The songs but Big Love, Go insane, The chain, Silver Springs, say you love me, I’m so afraid and Everywhere where all tweaked (some more than others. In some cases though you could claim they where new songs) apposed to the “behind the mask” and “tango” tours “the Dance” was NOT nostalgic.

Rick Vito and Billy are the only two members of Fleetwood Mac that I don’t care for and they certainly should not of been in the band. This guy said ti in one.

Behind the Mask set list was different from this... at least i think so...

[SteveMacD]

Behind the Mask set list was different from this... at least i think so...
Well, for starters, the opened with "In The Back Of My Mind," not SYLM.

[chiliD]

Behind the Mask set list was different from this... at least i think so...
Well, for starters, the opened with "In The Back Of My Mind," not SYLM.

First leg of the tour, SLYM WAS the opening number...after they returned from Europe, they'd revamped the set. So, basically, there were two separate set lists for the BTM tour.

The show I saw on the tour (the final night, 12/07/1990)...EDIT: this is the set they played

In the Back of My Mind/The Chain
Dreams
Isn't it Midnight
Love Is Dangerous
Oh Well
Rhiannon
Stop Messin' Around
Say You Love Me
Gold Dust Woman
I Loved Another Woman
Landslide (w/surprise guest, Lindsey Buckingham)
World Turning
Everywhere
Stand on the Rock
Little Lies
Stand Back
You Make Loving Fun
Don't Stop
(1st encore)
Tear it Up (once again,w/guest, Lindsey Buckingham)
Go Your Own Way (still w/Lindsey Buckingham)
(2nd encore)
Songbird

[David]

The show I saw on the tour (the final night)...from memory, I'll double check the list when I get home:Steve, it was the same set list as the last two or so months of the tour. Just check a set list for any night in the last two months (November & December). It will be the same.

P.S. I remember they did play SYLM, too, only it was in the middle somewhere.

[chiliD]

Steve, it was the same set list as the last two or so months of the tour. Just check a set list for any night in the last two months (November & December). It will be the same.

P.S. I remember they did play SYLM, too, only it was in the middle somewhere.

Not exactly...they'd dropped "Love Is Dangerous" for a while, then brought it back for the last week or so. Yeah, I do recall that they did SYLM in mid-set somewhere....I'll check my notes when I get home from work.

[SteveMacD]

The way I remember, SYLM replaced "Save Me" in the set.

[David]

Not exactly...they'd dropped "Love Is Dangerous" for a while, then brought it back for the last week or so.What about all those shows in November: Boston, Indianapolis, Philly, Landover ... Did they play or not play "Love Is Dangerous"? Anyone know from a bootleg? I have Bethlehem PA on video, but I don't remember whether "Dangerous" is on it.

[HomerMcvie]

What about all those shows in November: Boston, Indianapolis, Philly, Landover ... Did they play or not play "Love Is Dangerous"? Anyone know from a bootleg? I have Bethlehem PA on video, but I don't remember whether "Dangerous" is on it.
Why don't you watch it, and tell us?:confused: :woohoo: :lol:

[David]

Why don't you watch it, and tell us?:confused: :woohoo: :lol:I never watch anything from Fleetwood Mac post-1985. Besides, there are enough people around who will (for example, AliceLover/Jimmy).

[chiliD]

Set list edited above.

[AliceLover]

What about all those shows in November: Boston, Indianapolis, Philly, Landover ... Did they play or not play "Love Is Dangerous"? Anyone know from a bootleg? I have Bethlehem PA on video, but I don't remember whether "Dangerous" is on it.

Love is Dangerous was played for the last Leg of the American tour. Which was only about a month or a month and a half. Say You Love Me replaced Save Me and was right before GDW in the middle. In the Back of My Mind was the opener.

Steve are you sure that Go Your Own Way was in the encore? I thought it was GYOW, Tear it up, then Don't Stop.

[AliceLover]

I never watch anything from Fleetwood Mac post-1985. Besides, there are enough people around who will (for example, AliceLover/Jimmy).

Yeah I watch them/love them and I am not ashamed of it at all.

Oakland 90 is probably my most watched video and thats why it broke. :laugh:

Cmon Christine on this tour was one huge orgasm. She was fantastic!

[David]

Oakland 90 is probably my most watched video and thats why it broke.So what's the deal with that proshot video that Maureen sold? Why was it incomplete? Or did I just answer my own question?
Cmon Christine on this tour was one huge orgasm. She was fantastic!Yeah, but she's almost always good. She's what you call a 'solid' performer.

[chiliD]

Steve are you sure that Go Your Own Way was in the encore? I thought it was GYOW, Tear it up, then Don't Stop.

Yes...I just copied the set list from my notes that I had paperclipped to my copy of the tour book. They probably changed the set around because of Lindsey being there the final night of the tour...they closed the set with "Don't Stop", then had him come out for the encore to play (& sing) GYOW...and then jam on "Tear It Up" (I know, I used "Lindsey" & "jam" in the same sentence!!!!!). He came out for the curtain call after "Songbird" with the rest of the band, as well.

[SteveMacD]

The set ends with "Don't Stop," with the encores being "Tear It Up" and GYOW on my well worn, non-pro-shot boot.

[AliceLover]

So what's the deal with that proshot video that Maureen sold? Why was it incomplete? Or did I just answer my own question?
Yeah, but she's almost always good. She's what you call a 'solid' performer.

The copy I had was recorded at the soundboard for sure. I don't know if this is what you mean by pro shot but it is a great video. I am not sure...did Lindsey go to Oakland and LA forum and play both shows? Or just Oakland?

[AliceLover]

The set ends with "Don't Stop," with the encores being "Tear It Up" and GYOW on my well worn, non-pro-shot boot.

My copy starts at ITBOMM and ends at Stand Back. I think the other copy starts at Love is Dangerous?

[David]

The copy I had was recorded at the soundboard for sure. I don't know if this is what you mean by pro shot but it is a great video. I am not sure...did Lindsey go to Oakland and LA forum and play both shows? Or just Oakland?Lindsey & FM did the same show both nights. But I want to know where the rest of that pro footage is. Maureen never sold the whole thing. Did she have the whole thing?

I guess it doesn't really matter to me because I thought the band mostly stunk at that point. But I was just wondering whether anyone had ever managed to wangle the rest of the pro footage out of devilwoman or any of her minions.

[macfan 57]

I bought the video from Maureen Loftus. It starts with "In The Back Of My Mind" & ends with "Stand Back". Mine is the L.A. show(the last night of the BTM tour). I believe she told me the rest of the show that's missing was of extremely poor quality, unwatchable. The video that I do have is of very good quality. It is from a distance, but the picture is steady & clear and it has excellent sound quality.

[AliceLover]

I bought the video from Maureen Loftus. It starts with "In The Back Of My Mind" & ends with "Stand Back". Mine is the L.A. show(the last night of the BTM tour). I believe she told me the rest of the show that's missing was of extremely poor quality, unwatchable. The video that I do have is of very good quality. It is from a distance, but the picture is steady & clear and it has excellent sound quality.

This is what I have.

[David]

I bought the video from Maureen Loftus. It starts with "In The Back Of My Mind" & ends with "Stand Back". Mine is the L.A. show(the last night of the BTM tour). I believe she told me the rest of the show that's missing was of extremely poor quality, unwatchable. The video that I do have is of very good quality. It is from a distance, but the picture is steady & clear and it has excellent sound quality.Hasn't there always been some confusion over which night (Dec. 6 vs. Dec. 7) & which venue (Oakland Coliseum vs. Inglewood Forum) that footage is actually from--what with Maureen selling it at first labeling it Dec. 6 & then later selling it & labeling it Dec. 7?

Somebody would need to compare it with an audience recording of one night or the other to really verify. Come on, Jimmy! do it! DO IT!! DO IT!! :laugh: :wavey: :thumbsup:

[macfan 57]

Hasn't there always been some confusion over which night (Dec. 6 vs. Dec. 7) & which venue (Oakland Coliseum vs. Inglewood Forum) that footage is actually from--what with Maureen selling it at first labeling it Dec. 6 & then later selling it & labeling it Dec. 7?

My video is definitely the Dec. 7th L.A. show. Inglewood is mentioned during the show & Billy also mentioned that it was the last show of the tour. Maureen mislabeled it when she sold it to me. She incorrectly labled it as Dec. 6th Oakland.

[David]

My video is definitely the Dec. 7th L.A. show. Inglewood is mentioned during the show & Billy also mentioned that it was the last show of the tour. Maureen mislabeled it when she sold it to me. She incorrectly labled it as Dec. 6th Oakland.You have solved an ages-old mystery, Mary Anne. And as such, you are to be commended.

I myself have solved many a Maureen Mystery (such as the "Oakland 1977" soundboard & a few of the 1977/1979 rehearsals), so you & I think alike.