Getting the most out of an orchestra

[Jyqm]

Preamble: I haven't listened to any of the bootleg Melbourne tracks except for "Beautiful Child," which I found fairly underwhelming in terms of the use of the orchestra. But admittedly no bootleg is going to sound that great or capture the full sound of an orchestra, so I'm waiting until an official release to listen to anymore of these songs and pass judgment. That said, I'd be lying if I said expect a Stevie Nicks and the MSO album to be anything more than mediocre. I simply can't imagine it being at all better than any of a handful of run-of-the-mill pop/rock-music-with-an-orchestra because, well, is there any reason to think it will be?

However, if anyone's interested in hearing how a pop musician can truly use an orchestra to its full potential, I'd highly recommend Elvis Costello's newest release, My Flame Burns Blue, a recording of a 2004 concert from the North Sea Jazz Festival with the Metropol Orkest, one of the world's premier jazz orchestras and the only one with a full string section. Of course, Mr. MacManus is much more of an eclectic musician and much more of a composer than Ms. Nicks has ever had any desire to be, so they can't possibly be held to the same standard. But My Flame Burns Blue is really a wonderful album that truly highlights a lot of the talents of both EC and the Metropol. Included of course are a lot of EC's more jazz- and classical-oriented compositions, but there's a good sampling of his rock and pop tunes as well ("Clubland," "Watching The Detectives," "Episode Of Blonde," "God Give Me Strength"), and most of the arrangements are just stunning. Clearly a lot of thought was put into fully realizing the potential of recording these songs with an orchestra (the only other musician playing on stage is EC's pianist Steve Nieve), so there's a lot of interesting music going on, a lot of great dynamic instrumentation, instead of just slapping some bland string arrangement on top of a bunch of pop songs. This is really the pop orchestra album to beat this year.

David, I don't know if you're an Elvis Costello fan at all, but I think you might really enjoy this album.

[David]

David, I don't know if you're an Elvis Costello fan at all, but I think you might really enjoy this album.I consider Elvis Costello one of the preeminent composers of the modern pop era. Just the other day, Tammy highly recommended this album to me.

I have heard zilch nada of the recent Australian stuff with the MSO, but I bet the orchestrations are mostly insipid. I feel that if you're going to bring in large string, wind & horn sections to your rock band presentation, make those orchestrations bark. Don't use the orchestra to overlay the skeletal rock framework with syrupy sounds. Try novel, inventive orchestrational ideas; retool the arrangements. Use the pieces of the orchestra the way Buckingham used to use various guitars & guitar effects: to approximate the sounds of other instruments & technologies in ways that those instruments & technologies were not specifically designed for.

But my very, very strong hunch is that this is not what happened with Stevie's MSO concerts. (However, not a single fan who attended these shows has brought this up -- which gives you an excellent idea of just what Stevie's audience wants & feels safe with.)

[Jyqm]

I consider Elvis Costello one of the preeminent composers of the modern pop era. Just the other day, Tammy highly recommended this album to me.

I have heard zilch nada of the recent Australian stuff with the MSO, but I bet the orchestrations are mostly insipid. I feel that if you're going to bring in large string, wind & horn sections to your rock band presentation, make those orchestrations bark. Don't use the orchestra to overlay the skeletal rock framework with syrupy sounds. Try novel, inventive orchestrational ideas; retool the arrangements. Use the pieces of the orchestra the way Buckingham used to use various guitars & guitar effects: to approximate the sounds of other instruments & technologies in ways that those instruments & technologies were not specifically designed for.

Yeah, you'll love the Costello album. Run, don't walk! It also comes with a bonus disc featuring an edited performance of Il Sogno, EC's recent ballet of A Midsummer Night's Dream, by the London Symphony Orchestra.

But my very, very strong hunch is that this is not what happened with Stevie's MSO concerts. (However, not a single fan who attended these shows has brought this up -- which gives you an excellent idea of just what Stevie's audience wants & feels safe with.)

Well, of course. Most Stevie fans and most fans of the kinds of artists who usually do these orchestra-rock performances I think aren't terribly interested in intriguing or off-the-wall arrangements. Just throw some strings and flutes over the usual framework of the song, and that's different enough to keep most happy and feeling that they've got something a little different and special.

There were a few comments that "Rhiannon" featured an interesting string prelude, but I'm guessing that was about the extent of the MSO's innovations. Based on some of Stevie's published comments, it doesn't sound like she herself was terribly interested in radically rearranging her songs. I imagine she kept the MSO on a fairly short leash. And of course she kept her whole band up onstage playing over the orchestra.

[tynan88]

But my very, very strong hunch is that this is not what happened with Stevie's MSO concerts. (However, not a single fan who attended these shows has brought this up -- which gives you an excellent idea of just what Stevie's audience wants & feels safe with.)

I think orchestras can turn out great, I don't think it really did with Stevie though, in fact we mentioned this to Al, Brett and Jimmy when we met them and they seemed to agree.

They too safely went with what they knew and the orchestra generally just acted as another backing track.