View Full Version : Dance Appreciation Thread
Janet
02-08-2006, 08:25 PM
What does the DANCE mean to you?
goldustsongbird
02-08-2006, 09:06 PM
What does the DANCE mean to you?
One word: Christine.
Actually, quite a bit. It's the first full Mac performance I ever really saw (first one was the Rhiannon Rosebud video, which got me hooked), and even with all of the overdubbing and everything.
To be honest, before I owned The Dance, I didn't care much for Christine. I was all about Stevie, but watching it, I was like, "Woah". (And yes, I'll admit, at first, I based it purely on physical appearance-- The cover was enough. She looks smokin'). Seeing her onstage, even if she didn't always look all that enthusiastic, made me appreciate her and her voice a lot more. So, really, I credit The Dance for making me a fan. Now I can't get enough of her!
Not to ignore the rest of them... It was nice to hear Stevie hitting those high notes again, and that performance of Silver Springs is always the winner for me. I like it better than the LIB version. Lindsey sounds better here too, than on LIB. Big Love always sounds strained on there. Here, not so much. And I really enjoy Go Insane. It was also nice to hear then-new songs, and different takes on older songs (like Say You Love Me-- With "John McVie on vocals!")
Seeing them all together on stage (and even listening to the bootlegs from the tour) made me appreciate their sound as a whole. Listening to them now is just as enjoyable, but without the missing link in the chain (Okay, sorry, cheesiness abounds), there's something lacking.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-08-2006, 09:44 PM
One word: Christine.
:xoxo:
She IS The Dance!
DZgirlie
02-08-2006, 10:09 PM
The Dance got me hooked. I didn't even know who Fleetwood Mac was. My mother made me sit and watch "what she grew up with". I was 12 and wanted no part of it.
I fell in love. It was a slow process, that has since turned into some wicked obsession. I was in awe of the woman with the long blonde hair. That's what got me.
And after watching it from beginning to end, it's amazing. I look back now, and wish that things were how they were then. The voices, the looks, the feeling you get from watching it. Although I still get the goosebumps, and the gasp caught in the throat at the end of Silver Springs.
It was an amazing time, and I think we can all go back, and re-live it all and watch it as if we were seeing it for the first time all over again.
<3
goldustsongbird
02-08-2006, 10:16 PM
:xoxo:
She IS The Dance!
:woohoo: Indeed!
johndoe
02-08-2006, 11:06 PM
The Dance was like the launching pad for me. I knew who Stevie Nicks was, but none of her songs. I'd heard a ton of Fleetwood Mac songs, but never knew it was them. But I needed "Landslide" for one of my projects about this book I was reading, when they mentioned that the main character loved that song, and it was the symbolisim of the book. I knew my mom had an FM CD lying around (I remembered saying,"So his names Lindsey, and hers is Stevie?! LAWLZ!"). But I saved it to the computer, and say Go Your Own Way, which I saw on some rent a car commercial at the time, and Don't Stop, which I knew. And I started listening to it, really embarassed that I was travelling away from Zeppelin and The Who to listen to Fleetwood Mac. My friends acted like I came out of the closet. But from there I bought Rumours, and had to get used to the jump from the live editions to the studio editions (It doesn't seem to different for all of you who started hearing the studio versions, but its kind of a shock when you hear the Dance versions first). But The Dance was what got me started.
I was just getting into them 2 and a half years ago. I was really bummed one day cuz my friend went away to college and my mom bought it for me to cheer me up. I watched it and was in awe. It cheered me up and Gypsy reminded me of my friend and made me want to cry.
Nothing beats the first time...
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 12:23 AM
Nothing beats the first time...
:lol:
I'm sorry, this just made me think of something totally different.
Lindsey Jr.
02-09-2006, 03:29 AM
I saw an ad for live in Boston and went to a record store in Brussels to buy it, but they only had the dance. I already knew that it was a reunion, but nothing more. Now, almost two years later, it has become my favorite music dvd. (non metal/hardrock)
HomerMcvie
02-09-2006, 03:52 AM
:lol:
I'm sorry, this just made me think of something totally different.
Pervert!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Dance was like the launching pad for me.
Same here. I was... damn, fourteen? when it first started airing on TV. I happened to see the video for "Silver Springs" on MTV one morning over the summer. Not only was this just an achingly beautiful rock ballad, but man, that lady's kinda hot and she's singing with such guts. And that wonderfully understated guitar solo...
I mentioned the reunion to my dad (it was actually fairly heavily publicized on MTV at the time - Fleetwood Mac getting back together was a big deal), and he bought the cassette tape of The Dance, which we would listen to in the car in the mornings in the fall when he drove me and my brother to school. There was only time to listen to a couple of songs, though, so it was always "Silver Springs" and "You Make Loving Fun" for a while. Then I figured out that if I turned the tape over after "Silver Springs," it was in the middle of "Rhiannon" on the other side. Then I figured out that after "Rhiannon" was this bitching guitar rock out!
Anyway, eventually I bought the CD for myself (got the VHS for Christmas and watched it constantly for a couple of days).
Then I bought all the other Rumours-era CDs. (It took me a while to figure out Tusk. I didn't get it, and even Stevie's songs disappointed me at first.)
Then I bought Enchanted when it came out and fell in love with all of that,and went to see Stevie on the tour. (I never saw the Dance tour - at the time, dad made the argument: why do we need to go to an expensive concert when it's gonna be just like this live CD? Yeah, thanks a lot, dad.)
Then I bought that wacky album with the big monkey on the cover...
Then I listened to "Oh Well" from Live at the Boston Tea Party 2 in Borders...
And now, here we are. And actually, The Dance didn't just get me into Fleetwood Mac, it also led me to start exploring all kinds of 60s and 70s rock throughout high school. So it was a pretty good springboard for me.
GypsySorcerer
02-09-2006, 06:54 AM
My parents were casual fans, so I was familiar with FM somewhat and liked the music I had heard. The Dance (I was 16 or 17 at the time) got me more into them, and after that I started buying their albums and solo projects.
macfan 57
02-09-2006, 07:29 AM
One word: Christine.
Me too, of course.:) The whole thing was a big surprise. I never thought we'd ever see the Rumours line-up again. It was a fantastic way to end Fleetwood Mac for me.:cool:
Songbird4
02-09-2006, 08:09 AM
I love The Dance!! I have worn my CD out twice!!
Unfortunately I never went to any of the concerts, but it was the starting point for my obsession. My aunt wanted me to listen to this new song that she really liked (Silver Springs). I fell in love with the song the first time I heard it. She ended up buying me the CD. It was then I realized that I actually was familiar with 2/3 of the songs on there, I just didn't know that Fleetwood Mac sang them.
The Dance was the first DVD that I ever bought. Songbird instantly became my favorite FM song. But it was the chemistry that I saw onstage that made me curious about this band. I have loved them ever since.
I wanted to see the Enchanted Tour, but my mother wouldn't let me go. I did go to a TISL concert, but it was more to hear the FM songs (:sorry: ). After my first SYW concert, my love skyrocketed to an obsession.
~Kim
P.S. The first time, and even sometimes now when I hear it on the radio, I get chills up my spine when I listen to Little Lies...when Stevie comes in on the chorus. Am I just crazy or does that happen to anyone else??
danax6
02-09-2006, 09:33 AM
:xoxo:
She IS The Dance!
Yeah, just keep telling yourself that. :xoxo: (pst, your cd is on its way)
The Dance made me fall in love with the Mac completely, whereas I merely had a crush before I saw it. If that makes any sense. ;)
Boots
02-09-2006, 10:40 AM
Sorry - this turned out to be a big post - but I'm new here, and have waited so long to post, that all my built up thoughts are just spilling out....warning...turn away, run like the wind if you don't want to read a novel. ;) :sorry:
"The Dance" for me was almost like a small rock and roll miracle. After years of witnessing this line up of Fleetwood Mac go through love affairs, drug and alcohol addiction, creative difference, industry excess and ego, it was a coup that these 5 individuals - Stevie and Lindsey especially - were able to get together and sing again.
For me, knowing how much Lindsey couldn't stand Stevie for so long, and knowing how cautious Stevie was of Lindsey all these years of he not speaking to her - made seeing them connect during the show, and during "Landslide" especially, a blow-my-mind experience. I blubbered uncontrollably back in '97, and am still in tears when I see it today. There they were - 20+ years since that song was written by a young Stevie pondering her love for Lindsey - after all they'd been through - singing it again. To me, the only true performance of the song is when Lindsey plays it alongside her. No one else. That's their song. Sorry Dixie Chicks..no way. Sorry Billy Corgan, I love ya...but nah. When she sang that last verse, and they paused and looked at each other, almost as if to say.."Can you believe we're doing this after all these years?" with tears and love in their eyes...FRIENDS AGAIN? Holy crap...that was priceless.
Another thing that totally blew my mind back then was the re-appearance of "Silver Springs". Some of the post-Dance fans might not understand how difficult it was to find that song throughout the years. It used to be played by DJ's on FM radio, back in the old days of FM radio, when the DJ was like a friend, only speaking to you. (And by FM - I don't mean Fleetwood Mac - I mean the band/frequency). They'd play this beautiful treasure called "Silver Springs", and talk about how Mac had to leave it off the Rumours album because of lack of room. It showed up on various albums, but it was an ellusive song....and so gorgeous...that it made you want to hunt it down even more. It was on the B side of the single "Go Your Own Way", but for some reason - after a while, I think they didn't issue the single with that B-side song anymore. Whatever the case - I always had trouble finding it until it was released on the Mac box set "many a year ago" (to quote Stevie).:laugh:
Then suddenly, here comes "The Dance", and those beautiful piano chords of Christine's, waving over the opening bar, and we hear the beautiful "Silver Springs", sung by an older and wiser Stevie, sounding more remorseful than the young woman we hear in the original recording. It's slower, sadder, more recriminating than ever before, as she sings to Lindsey, admonishing him...ripping him a new one...so to speak. It's a catharsis...I'm shaking and crying still - after 9 years of watching this performance. And you could tell, in every part of her being, that after all those lost years, she still held these feelings that needed to be expressed to him. During the whole "Dance", she always looked to Lindsey, not just to keep time with the harmonies, but as an anchor.
And that just blew me away.
Let's get this straight. I adore Buckingham/Nicks as a duo and individuals. I root for their friendship and any romance because they are like old friends to me, whom I love, and want to see happy. Yet, although I'm more of a Buckingham/Nicks era Fleetwood Mac fan, I don't want to just dwell on them. The whole band sounded incredibly tight during this performance. Obvious, due to the professional surroundings and the extra back up singers and session men. However, seeing the joy in Mick's face - the grandaddy of the drums - that lovely wide eyed, open mouth jubilation he expressed with every pound of the drum...oh man...that was worth the wait. Thank God he found his way out of all the drug crap, and is lucid and wonderful again. He's such a lovable rocker....may he and the Mac live on. And, my LORD, Christine just looked and sounded smashing. How I miss her on "Say You Will". Her talent and voice were and are such an important dynamic in this band. And I swear I cannot hear John McVie's voice on "Say You Love Me", but amen to him. He's a quiet soul, and it's his signature bass lines that keep this group thumping.
That's "The Dance" to me.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 10:58 AM
Same here. I was... damn, fourteen?
just how old are you?
The Dance is, obviously, what got me into FM/Stevie. I love every single song. It will always be special to me because it really opened my soul to such wonderful music.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 11:00 AM
Ok, sorry to pee on the parade, but, for me, The Dance wasn't a joyful experience.
Once the "wow" of those five people being on stage together again went away (very quickly, as well), I just felt like it was "the beginning of the end" of Fleetwood Mac.
For 30 years, Fleetwood Mac's mantra was "keep trudging on", keep moving forward...with The Dance, they took a giant leap backwards. With one fell swoop of The Dance they became a nostalgia act.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 11:02 AM
Ok, sorry to pee on the parade, but, for me, The Dance wasn't a joyful experience.
Once the "wow" of those five people being on stage together again went away (very quickly, as well), I just felt like it was "the beginning of the end" of Fleetwood Mac.
For 30 years, Fleetwood Mac's mantra was "keep trudging on", keep moving forward...with The Dance, they took a giant leap backwards. With one fell swoop of The Dance they became a nostalgia act.
who cares if they became a nostalgia act? :shrug:
did you enjoy the music? the performances?
Boots
02-09-2006, 11:09 AM
Ok, sorry to pee on the parade, but, for me, The Dance wasn't a joyful experience.
Once the "wow" of those five people being on stage together again went away (very quickly, as well), I just felt like it was "the beginning of the end" of Fleetwood Mac.
For 30 years, Fleetwood Mac's mantra was "keep trudging on", keep moving forward...with The Dance, they took a giant leap backwards. With one fell swoop of The Dance they became a nostalgia act.
Your pee ain't making it's way toward my parade - so no problem. ;) We're talking about "The Dance"...one show. At least that's what I'm talking about. Not the tour, or the SYW album. As for the "reconvening" in 1997, there ain't nothing wrong with reuniting and looking back on the past for a while. Personally, I never thought "The Dance" was a new beginning, and I don't think it was "the beginning of the end". To me, the "beginning of the end" was during/after "Mirage" back in 1982 and the "truding on" was "Tango in the Night" and "Time" and all the 80's MTV BS they trudged through. "The Dance" in 97 was a reunion and a chance to heal wounds and own up to the past. It's part of growing. That was the reason why LB spoke about cycles and growing during that performance.
As for continuing on and touring...well, that might be seen as "trudging along". However, it was part of that growing process. It's up to the fan in seeing what it is. If you think it's a nostalgia show, then don't see it. If you want to see talent that made you happy years ago, and are back together for a while...then enjoy. My gripe is that they need to shake up their set list. Sing songs off the beaten track from their catalog. I know Stevie loves her songs like children, but when does she beat her head against the floorboards for having to sing "Dreams" for the 50th zillionth time? But...still....nice to hear. :-)
Villavic
02-09-2006, 11:39 AM
What does the DANCE mean to you?
Almost everything.
- My hope of watching my favorite lineup reunited again, became true. It was magical. And this time with internet and cable channels everywhere, it was so easy to get enough info, pics, etc. I had watche al those bands reunited again, like Eagles. The 980s was the reunions decade. And I was waiting for Fleetwood Mac. The Rumours Fleetwood Mac.
- Finally I heard the famous misterous song "Silver Springs" (I never got that 45rpm vynil single, nor the boxset to that date) that everybody talked about.
- The tour, my first (and only one to this day) concert.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 11:45 AM
who cares if they became a nostalgia act? :shrug:
did you enjoy the music? the performances?
1) I do...I prefer the bands I like to be relevant and still creatively active, not rehash the past over & over & over & over & over & over.
2) Not really. I liked the new tunes, the new arrangement of "Say You Love Me", that there finally was a recording of the solo Lindsey versions of "Big Love" & "Go Insane", and that they used Pledge on "Silver Springs". Besides that, I was bored...again, after the "wow" of seeing those five together on stage went away.
strandinthewind
02-09-2006, 11:51 AM
1) I do...I prefer the bands I like to be relevant and still creatively active, not rehash the past over & over & over & over & over & over.
2) Not really. I liked the new tunes, the new arrangement of "Say You Love Me", that there finally was a recording of the solo Lindsey versions of "Big Love" & "Go Insane", and that they used Pledge on "Silver Springs". Besides that, I was bored...again, after the "wow" of seeing those five together on stage went away.
Not only that, but they were really almost boring in a glossed over package kind of way. I know they have not been exciting since say Mirage, but at least they ad libbed a little more in TITN and the BTM tours.
Having said that, I really enjoyed The Dance and the tour. I just want more - always :laugh:
chiliD
02-09-2006, 12:09 PM
...but at least they ad libbed a little more in TITN and the BTM tours....
Hmmm....and the change in the band from Mirage for those two subsequent tours was...;)
strandinthewind
02-09-2006, 12:14 PM
Hmmm....and the change in the band from Mirage for those two subsequent tours was...;)
Stevie got off of the drugs.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 12:18 PM
Stevie got off of the drugs.
And?
Oh, yeah...no Lindsey Buckingham. Gee, then the band got creative in a live setting. How ironic. Maybe they should've just "done a Beach Boys" (Brian Wilson records the albums, Bruce Johnston goes on the road)...record their albums with Lindsey..then go on the road with Billy & Rick.
Welcome, Boots! That was a wonderful post, I hope you plan on sharing many more of your thoughts with the rest of us!
And I swear I cannot hear John McVie's voice on "Say You Love Me", but amen to him. He's a quiet soul, and it's his signature bass lines that keep this group thumping.
It's there! But since he's just scatting the bass line while also playing the bass guitar, it's a wee bit difficult to pick out.
just how old are you?
I realize that math often isn't the strong suit of us poetic types, but this one isn't that hard is it?
2006 - 1997 = 9
9 + 14 = ?
who cares if they became a nostalgia act?
I'll join chiliD in caring. I love most of the performances on The Dance, but I agree that the implications of Fleetwood Mac being a nostalgia act are still troubling. Being a nostalgia act involves a certain amount of cynicism that I don't really care for, and it's more or less an admittance of, "Well, this is all we've got now. We can't be creative anymore, or rather, we don't care to be, because we can make tons of money simply touring behidn these old warhorses."
On the plus side, they didn't completely turn the corner into nostalgia land. It took them six years, but they did release an album of all-new material that turned out pretty great. Unfortunately, some of the nostalgia-act trappings still remained at the concerts - playing seven Rumours tracks every night (and in most of the same old arrangements), compared to six from Say You Will. Which album were they touring behind again?
Boots
02-09-2006, 01:09 PM
Welcome, Boots! That was a wonderful post, I hope you plan on sharing many more of your thoughts with the rest of us!
It's there! But since he's just scatting the bass line while also playing the bass guitar, it's a wee bit difficult to pick out.
:wavey: Hi Jyqm!!! Thanks for the warm welcome! Looking forward to sharing.
Yeah...I think I can hear him humming the base line, but when I first heard Christine say "on vocals, my ex-husband, John McVie", I was all "omg! that's gotta be heard"...and then I didn't really hear him. But never mind. :)
And WORD and your last post. I guess FM tends to be dangerously near the nostalgia act stage what with the same songs. Hell...I'd kill to hear Stevie sing "Angel" or "Storms"...or "Socerer"...perhaps some old B/N songs - not so much of "I'm So Afraid", but bring out "Frozen Love" or "Long Distance Winner", their perf. of "Don't Let Me Down Again" from the Live album was fun. Bring out that old chestnut. "Crystal" might be nice - but I think they already do that one. Bring out some old Mac..like..."Oh Well"... Bring out "Not That Funny" or "The Ledge" or do "Waiting for the Countdown"...do a cool cover like "Needles and Pins"..."..."I Need to Know".. I see nothing wrong with taking some of their solo hits and doing them. Stevie did "Stand Back" at Live in Boston. It would be so much fun, if someone, they could invite Walter Eagan to sit in on some shows and do "Shy"...LOVE THAT TUNE! They need to shake it up a bit.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 01:19 PM
...they could invite Walter Eagan to sit in on some shows and do "Shy"...
I'm assuming you meant Walter Egan's "Magnet & Steel". :shrug:
Sahara
02-09-2006, 01:21 PM
The Dance is just extraordinary. It's amazing how many people have said it turned them into big fans -- I'm in that category too.
My Mum got SYW and I loved it to bits, and a few weeks afterwards I saw the Dance DVD in a record shop, persuaded Mum to buy it "for both of us" ;) and ... well ... the rest is history.
The songs obviously are great but the chemistry on the DVD is what astounds me most. Silver Springs was phenomenal and it inspired me so much to completely change my creative writing style and I never once have looked back.
And WORD and your last post. I guess FM tends to be dangerously near the nostalgia act stage what with the same songs. Hell...I'd kill to hear Stevie sing "Angel" or "Storms"...or "Socerer"...perhaps some old B/N songs - not so much of "I'm So Afraid", but bring out "Frozen Love" or "Long Distance Winner", their perf. of "Don't Let Me Down Again" from the Live album was fun. Bring out that old chestnut. "Crystal" might be nice - but I think they already do that one. Bring out some old Mac..like..."Oh Well"... Bring out "Not That Funny" or "The Ledge" or do "Waiting for the Countdown"...do a cool cover like "Needles and Pins"..."..."I Need to Know".. I see nothing wrong with taking some of their solo hits and doing them. Stevie did "Stand Back" at Live in Boston. It would be so much fun, if someone, they could invite Walter Eagan to sit in on some shows and do "Shy"...LOVE THAT TUNE! They need to shake it up a bit.
They actually did play "Don't Let Me Down Again" on the SYW tour. I think it lasted one show. Maybe the crowd reaction was quite quite they'd hoped on that one night, so they just dropped it. They've never performed "Crystal" live, as far as I know.
And I also agree that I wouldn't mind if Lindsey and Stevie each did a solo song or two with Fleetwood Mac, as long as it's not the same old crap they perform every single night anyway. Both "Go Insane" and "Stand Back" can take a rest.
See this thread for my theory that they could perform two completely different setlists on back-to-back nights that would include plenty of chestnuts for us die-hards, while still including enough well-known hits to appease the beer-line fans that they seem so desperately to want to please: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=23656&page=9
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 01:33 PM
The Dance started it all for me! I was learning to play guitar back in '96, and hearing the Dance for the first time I think was October 97. My brother was really into them 1st and had bought the CD. I think the first couple of tracks that just threw me back where The Chain, So Afraid, Bleed to Love Her, and Silver Springs. And of course, Landslide. The fingerpicking on that is beautiful.
I remember going out before Thanksgiving that year, and my mom buying me the green "Greatest Hits" C. I was surprised to find that I knew most of the songs. I didn't know they sang "Gypsy" and "Hold Me." My dad likes the pre Lindsey/Stevie better, and tried to get me into that to less avail. I got the Dance on VHS for Christmas that year I think too.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 01:48 PM
I realize that math often isn't the strong suit of us poetic types, but this one isn't that hard is it?
2006 - 1997 = 9
9 + 14 = ?
insane far beyond your years
I was being sarcastic. But thanks for the lesson, I need to brush up anyway.
I'll join chiliD in caring. I love most of the performances on The Dance, but I agree that the implications of Fleetwood Mac being a nostalgia act are still troubling. Being a nostalgia act involves a certain amount of cynicism that I don't really care for, and it's more or less an admittance of, "Well, this is all we've got now. We can't be creative anymore, or rather, we don't care to be, because we can make tons of money simply touring behidn these old warhorses."
On the plus side, they didn't completely turn the corner into nostalgia land. It took them six years, but they did release an album of all-new material that turned out pretty great. Unfortunately, some of the nostalgia-act trappings still remained at the concerts - playing seven Rumours tracks every night (and in most of the same old arrangements), compared to six from Say You Will. Which album were they touring behind again?
fair enough. both you and chiliD fail to see my point though. they are not a nostalgia act. that's a label that people who must force everyone into some category places. I ask again, who cares if some people view them as a nostalgia act - I don't agree that they admitted they weren't/aren't creative anymore. It was a reunion, you expect them to pop out with new songs with new arrangements and have everyone asking wtf was that? I don't care if people are cynical or whatever...as long as I enjoy the music (new/old/revamped), that's all that matters. that's my point.
oh, and by the way, last time I checked dictionary.com, behind was not spelled behidn, but you probably already know that.
fair enough. both you and chiliD fail to see my point though. they are not a nostalgia act. that's a label that people who must force everyone into some category places. I ask again, who cares if some people view them as a nostalgia act
I don't think chiliD was saying he cared whether or not other people view Fleetwood Mac as a nostalgia act - he himself feels that they have allowed themselves to become a nostalgia act. I partly agree. They're clearly far too beholden to the idea that they have to play a boatload of the same hits every night at the expense of other more interesting material, but they are still releasing new music and playing at least some of it, so I don't think they've completely given themselves over to stagnation yet.
It was a reunion, you expect them to pop out with new songs with new arrangements and have everyone asking wtf was that?
Well, they did exactly that, to some extent. They played four new songs on that tour, and featured relatively new arrangements on "Say You Love Me" and "Big Love." At any rate, my complaint about not playing enough new material and playing the old stuff in the same tired way was directed more at the Say You Will tour. Sorry if that was unclear.
I don't care if people are cynical or whatever...
When I said that being a nostalgia act involves a certain level of cynicism, I meant on the part of the band, not the public. And quite frankly, Fleetwood Mac are incredibly cynical and patronizing in the way they approach touring.
as long as I enjoy the music (new/old/revamped), that's all that matters. that's my point.
And my point and chiliD's point is that we don't enjoy the music as much precisely because the band is so stagnant in concert.
oh, and by the way, last time I checked dictionary.com, behind was not spelled behidn, but you probably already know that.
If I start paying you, will go through and catch all of my typos for me?
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:08 PM
I don't think. . .is so stagnant in concert.
EDIT: no comment
If I start paying you, will go through and catch all of my typos for me?
EDIT: no comment
chiliD
02-09-2006, 02:08 PM
...both you and chiliD fail to see my point though.
they are not a nostalgia act.
Au contraire. That's EXACTLY what they became by doing The Dance, and, as Jyqm mentioned, too, they CONTINUED being on the Say You Will tour by filling their set with white album & Rumours material and forgoing most of their NEW material that they had hyped as "the best stuff we've ever done". If their new **** was SOOOOOO good, then, if they were telling the truth, they would've promoted the **** out of their new stuff.
It was a reunion, you expect them to pop out with new songs with new arrangements and have everyone asking wtf was that?
Yes. That's EXACTLY what they should've done. They not only need to rattle their OWN cage, they need to rattle their AUDIENCE's cage as well.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:11 PM
Au contraire. That's EXACTLY what they became by doing The Dance, and, as Jyqm mentioned, too, they CONTINUED being on the Say You Will tour by filling their set with white album & Rumours material and forgoing most of their NEW material that they had hyped as "the best stuff we've ever done". If their new **** was SOOOOOO good, then, if they were telling the truth, they would've promoted the **** out of their new stuff.
Yes. That's EXACTLY what they should've done. They not only need to rattle their OWN cage, they need to rattle their AUDIENCE's cage as well.
see my response to Jyqm.
I still don't feel, at least to me, that they are a nostalgia act, but I do agree with the last statement.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 02:12 PM
Stevie got off of the drugs.
And gained weight...and teased her hair as much as possible...and put on outragous costumes...
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 02:14 PM
Au contraire. That's EXACTLY what they became by doing The Dance, and, as Jyqm mentioned, too, they CONTINUED being on the Say You Will tour by filling their set with white album & Rumours material and forgoing most of their NEW material that they had hyped as "the best stuff we've ever done". If their new **** was SOOOOOO good, then, if they were telling the truth, they would've promoted the **** out of their new stuff.
I agree...which is kind of why I'm glad Christine said :wavey: when she did...she did it "one last time" for the band, and then she got to go out with style and class and not become part of a touring nastalgia group.
Villavic
02-09-2006, 02:14 PM
...they CONTINUED being on the Say You Will tour by filling their set with white album & Rumours material and forgoing most of their NEW material that they had hyped as "the best stuff we've ever done". If their new **** was SOOOOOO good, then, if they were telling the truth, they would've promoted the **** out of their new stuff.
I agree with you, but who said it was the "best stuff..", the band or.. just Mick Fleetwood?
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:17 PM
she did it "one last time" for the band
:lol:
1 - I'm sure the money didn't hurt
2 - I will kill over if she comes back for a tour and you have to eat those words
ok. makes sense.
(on a side note and not to give you a swelled head, but I'm always amazed at your ability to back up what you say and say it in such a level-headed way; even if I don't agree)
Don't worry, my head's probably as big as it's going to get, but thanks! As noted elsewhere in other threads, I'm not exactly one to get all wound up or take things personally on an Internet message board. Plus, you catch more flies with level-headedness than with shouting matches.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:18 PM
And gained weight...and teased her hair as much as possible...and put on outragous costumes...
by the way, do you think Christine looks like Boy George in your sig pic?
I'm just asking.
I agree with you, but who said it was the "best stuff..", the band or.. just Mick Fleetwood?
I think all three of them said something to the same effect when they were out promoting the album, because you pretty have to say that kind of stuff. Nobody promotes an album by giving interviews and saying, "Yeah, this new one's pretty okay, but actually, people will probably like the old stuff better."
That aside, they also all made such a big stink back around the time of the Dance saying, "Oh no, this is just a one-time reunion tour, we're not going to be one of those bands who just keeps on touring playing the same old stuff without any new material." Of course, they made good on that promise in word, but certainly not in spirit.
Boots
02-09-2006, 02:24 PM
I'm assuming you meant Walter Egan's "Magnet & Steel". :shrug:
YES! Thanks, ChiliD!! It's been a while...and I forgot the title! Big Ooops on my part. :o
Boots
02-09-2006, 02:32 PM
They actually did play "Don't Let Me Down Again" on the SYW tour. I think it lasted one show. Maybe the crowd reaction was quite quite they'd hoped on that one night, so they just dropped it. They've never performed "Crystal" live, as far as I know.
And I also agree that I wouldn't mind if Lindsey and Stevie each did a solo song or two with Fleetwood Mac, as long as it's not the same old crap they perform every single night anyway. Both "Go Insane" and "Stand Back" can take a rest.
See this thread for my theory that they could perform two completely different setlists on back-to-back nights that would include plenty of chestnuts for us die-hards, while still including enough well-known hits to appease the beer-line fans that they seem so desperately to want to please: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=23656&page=9
I just read your post in that thread, and I love, love, love the idea of keeping the hits, but not beating the same ones down to death. I really love the wildcard idea. However, I will admit that I haven't been to the FM concert in recent years - that is - when they were touring for SYW. I've only heard/seen DVD's of concerts, and what I've heard...sadly...is getting tired. As much as I love GYOW...the live intro doesn't fool nor surprise anyone...and I believe it's the same one Buckingham has used for nearly 30 years now for live shows. I love the Mac, but they need to get out of that rut.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:37 PM
I just read your post in that thread, and I love, love, love the idea of keeping the hits, but not beating the same ones down to death. I really love the wildcard idea.
this doesn't make sense to me.
keep the hits and have wildcards? isn't that what they did? played the hits and threw in Beautiful Child and Sara and Blue Letter, etc.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 02:39 PM
I agree with you, but who said it was the "best stuff..", the band or.. just Mick Fleetwood?
Lindsey did, in the pre-album media hype-a-thon.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 02:40 PM
this doesn't make sense to me.
keep the hits and have wildcards? isn't that what they did? played the hits and threw in Beautiful Child and Sara and Blue Letter, etc.
No..they played the same God damned set for 98% of the tour. "Wildcard" means that they play a DIFFERENT song in that spot in the set each show.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 02:42 PM
Au contraire. That's EXACTLY what they became by doing The Dance, and, as Jyqm mentioned, too, they CONTINUED being on the Say You Will tour by filling their set with white album & Rumours material and forgoing most of their NEW material that they had hyped as "the best stuff we've ever done". If their new **** was SOOOOOO good, then, if they were telling the truth, they would've promoted the **** out of their new stuff.
Hey CHILId...didnt they do like 7 or 8 songs on the SYW tour from that album...? That's not too bad. Most bands that have that kind of catalogue don't include more than 3 songs from their "newer" albums.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:43 PM
No..they played the same God damned set for 98% of the tour. "Wildcard" means that they play a DIFFERENT song in that spot in the set each show.
ok ok. don't get so hostile. and I don't think that's something I'd want them to do anyway.
Boots
02-09-2006, 02:49 PM
this doesn't make sense to me.
keep the hits and have wildcards? isn't that what they did? played the hits and threw in Beautiful Child and Sara and Blue Letter, etc.
Wildcard to me doesn't just mean the songs you've mentioned...it could be Soccerer, or Down at the Rodeo...or a cover song like the Petty ones I mentioned...perhaps some original Fleetwood Mac blues....
Sara isn't much of a Wildcard...Stevie sang it back in 79 on the Tusk tour a lot because it was a hit single.
How about bringing back old faves? Angel? I Don't Want to Know? Do they sing Christine's songs now that she's not there? How about Storms? That's Alright? Book of Love? I mean - I mentioned that I haven't been to a Mac concert in years....correct me if they have been singing these.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 02:51 PM
:lol:
1 - I'm sure the money didn't hurt
2 - I will kill over if she comes back for a tour and you have to eat those words
Oh of COURSE the money didn't hurt...can you blame her! :lol:
And if she DID come back for another tour/album...I would be MORE THAN HAPPY to eat my words
chiliD
02-09-2006, 02:52 PM
How about they play something new...something that hasn't been released yet...something that came out before 1975...something that came out between 1987-1997....how about they NOT play the same set list night in, night out? :shrug: :mad:
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 02:53 PM
Wildcard to me doesn't just mean the songs you've mentioned...it could be Soccerer, or Down at the Rodeo...or a cover song like the Petty ones I mentioned...perhaps some original Fleetwood Mac blues....
Sara isn't much of a Wildcard...Stevie sang it back in 79 on the Tusk tour a lot because it was a hit single.
How about bringing back old faves? Angel? I Don't Want to Know? Do they sing Christine's songs now that she's not there? How about Storms? That's Alright? Book of Love? I mean - I mentioned that I haven't been to a Mac concert in years....correct me if they have been singing these.
I agree..but she can still sing "Sara" pretty well. They might not be able to pull off "That's Alright" or "Book of Love" with what's left of their vocal range. Take "2nd Hand News" for example...I HATE the Say You Will tour version of that. It's wretched. I was very pleased when they threw "Eyes of of the World" and "Sara" into the mix. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they do "Oh Well" again on the next tour instead of "World Turning."
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 02:54 PM
by the way, do you think Christine looks like Boy George in your sig pic?
I'm just asking.
Not really, but if she did a little, I wouldn't be too hurt...after all Boy George has spent his entire life trying to look as much like a woman as possible.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:55 PM
it's alright baby, their doing the best that they can...
all the haters...ehhh
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 02:56 PM
Not really, but if she did a little, I wouldn't be too hurt...after all Boy George has spent his entire life trying to look as much like a woman as possible.
and I didn't mean that in a derogatory way...
DavidMn
02-09-2006, 03:01 PM
I'll tell you what it means to me. It represents the first tour I ever had a chance to see Fleetwood Mac live on. Very special to me.:nod:
chiliD
02-09-2006, 03:05 PM
Hey CHILId...didnt they do like 7 or 8 songs on the SYW tour from that album...?
If their material was supposedly the "best ever", don't you think they would've played 10-11? Of an 18 song album, that's NOT asking a lot.
How many of those "7 or 8" tunes did they play once or twice then they disappeared from the set the rest of the tour?
The show I saw, they played 5. "Say You Will", "Peacekeeper", "Come", "Say Goodbye" & "Goodbye Baby".
They did 7 from Rumours...that album had 12 songs (counting "Silver Springs") with 4 from a songwriter no longer in the band...and they STILL did 7 songs from it. 58% of the album.
So, if their thinking was that the SYW material was BETTER than Rumours, then why play only 28% of the better album and 58% of the "lesser" album??
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 03:11 PM
If their material was supposedly the "best ever", don't you think they would've played 10-11? Of an 18 song album, that's NOT asking a lot.
How many of those "7 or 8" tunes did they play once or twice then they disappeared from the set the rest of the tour?
The show I saw, they played 5. "Say You Will", "Peacekeeper", "Come", "Say Goodbye" & "Goodbye Baby".
They did 7 from Rumours...that album had 12 songs (counting "Silver Springs") with 4 from a songwriter no longer in the band...and they STILL did 7 songs from it. 58% of the album.
So, if their thinking was that the SYW material was BETTER than Rumours, then why play only 28% of the better album and 58% of the "lesser" album??
Point taken, I'm just arguing that out of their extensive catalogue of songs they gave a good proportion of the set to SYW. Out of the 3 shows I saw, 2 of them they did Peacekeeper, Say You Will, Come, Whats the World Coming To, Say Goodbye, Goodbye Baby...and then on the 3rd show, 2nd leg of the tour "Red Rover" made it in there. I think they did Destiny Rules & Running Thru the Garden on numerous occasions too. I think they should have included Bleed to Love Her as well. Great song.
You, of all people, being a touring musician know that you <I>have</I> to include the old string of material for the non-hardcore-fans. Stuff like Eyes of the World, Red Rover, and I'm Know I'm Not Wrong got put in there for "us".
ReFleetwoodMac
02-09-2006, 03:12 PM
If their material was supposedly the "best ever", don't you think they would've played 10-11? Of an 18 song album, that's NOT asking a lot.
How many of those "7 or 8" tunes did they play once or twice then they disappeared from the set the rest of the tour?
The show I saw, they played 5. "Say You Will", "Peacekeeper", "Come", "Say Goodbye" & "Goodbye Baby".
They did 7 from Rumours...that album had 12 songs (counting "Silver Springs") with 4 from a songwriter no longer in the band...and they STILL did 7 songs from it. 58% of the album.
So, if their thinking was that the SYW material was BETTER than Rumours, then why play only 28% of the better album and 58% of the "lesser" album??
Granted they could have easily balanced it out a bit better, but the reason is that obligation to the fans that they always talk about. The fans come to hear the Rumours stuff. You talk like the band wants to play the old stuff and doesn't want to play the new stuff. I think it has a lot more to do with their complete obedience to casual fans.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 03:12 PM
Stuff like Eyes of the World, Red Rover, and I'm Know I'm Not Wrong got put in there for "us".
They should have left Don't Stop OUT...THAT would have been for ME! :lol:
chiliD
02-09-2006, 03:13 PM
You, of all people, being a touring musician know that you <I>have</I> to include the old string of material for the non-hardcore-fans.
Not necessarily. Neil Young, for example. Bob Dylan, for another. Allman Bros Band, a third. Little Feat, as yet a fourth. and, the mother of all "not catering to the audience" set list bands...the Grateful Dead.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 03:16 PM
Not necessarily. Neil Young, for example. Bob Dylan, for another. Allman Bros Band, a third. Little Feat, as yet a fourth. and, the mother of all "not catering to the audience" set list bands...the Grateful Dead.
And none of those bands/artists sell close to what Fleetwood Mac does in terms of ticket sales. Granted playing the shows the way they do is "safe," but if it pulls in some new 13 year old fan who recognizes "Dreams" or "Tusk," then that's the pay off from the sacrifice.
dontlookdown
02-09-2006, 03:20 PM
it's funny to me how people think of The Dance and "look back" in a nostalgic way. it still feels relatively new to me.
for me it was sort of like answered prayers. and i don't pray much.
i'll never forget how i reacted when i saw the small article in the LA Times announcing that Lindsey Buckingham was reuniting with the bad for a few shows on a soundstage in LA. of course my first thought was how do i get tickets. but a part of me also worried that they wouldn't be able to pull it off.
i remember hanging on every note as i watched it on PBS (or was it VH1) and breathing a sigh of relief as each performance was a slam dunk.
although - in hind sight, most of christine's songs feel really phoned in.
i was surprised how great stevie sounded (and looked). you could tell she worked really hard for those shows. she had something to prove and she certainly did so - and then some. silver springs blew me a way as did dreams.
considering all they were up against, i think the album is pretty spectacular.
they redeemed themselves with this record and gained a lot of credibility that had been lost with Behind The Mask and Time (and some of Stevie's solo work).
Remember how dreadful the peformance was at Clinton's inauguration?
that was really embarassing...
So nice to have them back.
this doesn't make sense to me.
keep the hits and have wildcards? isn't that what they did? played the hits and threw in Beautiful Child and Sara and Blue Letter, etc.
No. The argument that was made in the older thread was that the reason Fleetwood Mac plays its stagnant hit parade every night is because if they didn't, the casual fans would revolt. I said that nobody was saying FM needed to completely do away with all of their hits - but there's no reason to play so many of them, every single night. My suggestion was that the band start mixing up their setlist from night to night by simply rotating some of the big hits out - instead of playing both "Go Your Own Way" AND "Tusk" every night, just play one or the other. Ditto "Rhiannon"/"Silver Springs." Ditto "Gypsy"/"Dreams." Ditto "Second Hand News"/"Never Going Back Again." This way you've still got four out of those eight getting played every night, and now you've got four "wildcard" spots to start spicing things up.
Then I suggested, what the hell, let's just start swapping out everything in the setlist except "Don't Stop." Instead of "The Chain," play "Monday Morning" sometimes. Instead of "Landslide," do a "Crystal" duet. Instead of "Stand Back," do SDMHA with Lindsey on Petty's vocals. And so on.
In the end, I came up with two almost totally different potential Say You Will tour setlists that contained plenty of hits for the casual fans, and plenty of "Holy ****!" moments for us. If they had swapped out these setlists every other night, or started mixing and matching, it would have been a very exciting and fun tour:
Setlist #1:
The Chain/Angel/I Know I'm Not Wrong/Peacekeeper/Never Going Back Again/Say You Will/Book Of Love/Silver Springs/Come/Dreams/Trouble/Landslide/Say Goodbye/Red Rover/Beautiful Child/Gold Dust Woman/Tango In The Night/What Makes You Think You're The One/Running Through The Garden/Stop Draggin' My Heart Around/Tusk//Frozen Love/Don't Stop/Goodbye Baby
Setlist #2:
Monday Morning/Sara/Eyes Of The World/Miranda/Second Hand News/Thrown Down/The Ledge/Rhiannon/Murrow/Gypsy/Big Love/Crystal/Steal Your Heart Away/What's The World Coming To/Storms/Seven Wonders/I'm So Afraid/Blue Letter/Sisters Of The Moon/Stand Back/Go Your Own Way//World Turning/Don't Stop/Everybody Finds Out
Hey CHILId...didnt they do like 7 or 8 songs on the SYW tour from that album...? That's not too bad.
They played six a night, which in itself isn't all that bad, but it was the same six every night. We'll call it seven since "Red Rover" replaced WTWCT for the second leg. "Destiny Rules" and "Running Through The Garden," however, don't count, having been played no more than two or three times and then dropped like yesterday's breakfast.
But even if you do count those two, at the end of a nearly two year tour, half of the new album - nine songs! - including two so-called "singles"! - were never played. That's just pitiful.
Most bands that have that kind of catalogue don't include more than 3 songs from their "newer" albums.
That's the stereotype, but it's an exaggeration, and it's not true in a lot of cases. There are people out there with much more impressive catalogues than BN-Fleetwood Mac's who mix things up and play new material a whole lot more than they do.
You, of all people, being a touring musician know that you <I>have</I> to include the old string of material for the non-hardcore-fans. Stuff like Eyes of the World, Red Rover, and I'm Know I'm Not Wrong got put in there for "us".
And this is why Fleetwood Mac don't bother to mix things up. They know that if they throw in one or two bones, most of the big fans will be incredibly grateful just to have something - anything - to chew on. "We'll be taking a short reprieve from the Rumours hit parade right now to play three songs out of twenty-four for our big fans who have supported us all these years! They mean so much to us, we thought we'd dedicate twelve percent of the concert to them!"
Boots
02-09-2006, 03:58 PM
I agree..but she can still sing "Sara" pretty well. They might not be able to pull off "That's Alright" or "Book of Love" with what's left of their vocal range. Take "2nd Hand News" for example...I HATE the Say You Will tour version of that. It's wretched. I was very pleased when they threw "Eyes of of the World" and "Sara" into the mix. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they do "Oh Well" again on the next tour instead of "World Turning."
You're so right about "2nd Hand News"!! I did see the performance of that song on DVD, and it was pretty disappointing.
Good point, mylittledemon.;) Perhaps they can't pull off the same songs that they used to sing so well on record.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 03:59 PM
although - in hind sight, most of christine's songs feel really phoned in.
:confused: :confused: :confused:
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:00 PM
Good point, mylittledemon.;) Perhaps they can't pull off the same songs that they used to sing so well on record.
Very rarely do I garner praise of any kind around here. Well ok...maybe a little. That's what I'm here for! And booty.
ROFL j/k
And none of those bands/artists sell close to what Fleetwood Mac does in terms of ticket sales.
You know who sells a hell of a lot more concert tickets than Fleetwood Mac? Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. Over the course of the Rising tour in 2002 and 2003, they played well over a hundred shows in arenas, stadiums and baseball parks. They played 150 different songs on that tour, including every song off The Rising. Of those 150 songs, 31 were covers, and only 44 were played just once. There were staples which were played on most nights (and of the 8 songs which were performed at every show, 6 were from The Rising - the other two were "Born To Run" and "Badlands"), but the setlist changed substantially from show to show, especially if there were multiple nights in the same city.
You want stats?
In 2003, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band played 47 shows and grossed $115.9 million. Fleetwood Mac played 71 shows, 51% more than Bruce. They grossed $69 million, 40% less than Bruce.
Granted playing the shows the way they do is "safe," but if it pulls in some new 13 year old fan who recognizes "Dreams" or "Tusk," then that's the pay off from the sacrifice.
At the prices Fleetwood Mac charges, you think they're trying to lure in new teenage fans? You think many teenagers are going to these concerts at those prices?
I honestly do not understand the desire some people have to defend the band on this level. They play the same stale setlist every night because they don't really care enough to change it up and because they (erroneously) think if they do, they'll lose concertgoers (i.e., cash). They don't do it out of generosity to casual fans, they don't do it to bring in new fans. They do it because they're greedy and lazy. End of story.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:06 PM
You know who sells a hell of a lot more concert tickets than Fleetwood Mac? Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
At the prices Fleetwood Mac charges, you think they're trying to lure in new teenage fans? You think many teenagers are going to these concerts at those prices?
I honestly do not understand the desire some people have to defend the band on this level.
#1 I think Springsteen appeals to a wider audience than Fleetwood Mac does...so that could account for the larger crowds. I'm also under the impression that they tour a helluva' lot less than Fleetwood Mac does. Weren't the "broken up" for a long time?
#2 I didnt say they were <I>trying</I> to lure in new fans...but if some kid recognizes and old song, well guess what, then they're pushing old catalog material as well as the new CD. I was implying that it <I>was</I> about money.
#3 Hey, I like Fleetwood Mac. They're my favorite band. I'm not entirely happy with the set list either...but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. Other than to boycott, and simply not go to shows. Which I wont do, because <I>some</I> Fleetwood Mac is better than none.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:11 PM
#3 Hey, I like Fleetwood Mac. They're my favorite band. I'm not entirely happy with the set list either...but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. Other than to boycott, and simply not go to shows. Which I wont do, because <I>some</I> Fleetwood Mac is better than none.
I agree totally.
I sing your praises. what's the going rate for cyberbooty? lol
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:13 PM
what's the going rate for cyberbooty? lol
HA! You're crazy J. Well, Nikki's my agent around here so give her a ring and she'll set something up. I don't like to talk about dollar amounts...
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:15 PM
HA! You're crazy J. Well, Nikki's my agent around here so give her a ring and she'll set something up. I don't like to talk about dollar amounts...
you two would do good on the jersey turnpike.
I'll be sure to PM her.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:16 PM
you two would do good on the jersey turnpike.
I'll be sure to PM her.
Dude...thats f*cking hilarious! hahaha.....the turnpike.
#1 I think Springsteen appeals to a wider audience than Fleetwood Mac does...so that could account for the larger crowds.
Well, which is it? Do certain bands sell more tickets because they appeal to a larger audience (and Rumours has sold quite a few more copies than Born In The USA, by the way), or because they play stale greatest hits setlists?
I'm also under the impression that they tour a helluva' lot less than Fleetwood Mac does. Weren't the "broken up" for a long time?
There was an E Street Band reunion tour in 1999-2000. Prior to that, the last E Street Band tour had been in 1988 (although Bruce had launched a large-scale tour with another band in 1992-1993). But they had only been off the road for two years when the Rising tour began in 2002.
To compare, there was a Fleetwood Mac reunion tour in 1997. Prior to that, the last large-scale Fleetwood Mac tour had been in 1990. But they had been off the road for nearly six years when the Say You Will tour began in 2003.
So in the past decade, there have been the same number of Fleetwood Mac and E Street Band tours. In 2003, however, one would think demand would be higher for Fleetwood Mac, as they had been off the road for much longer than Bruce & pals at that point.
#2 I didnt say they were <I>trying</I> to lure in new fans...but if some kid recognizes and old song, well guess what, then they're pushing old catalog material as well as the new CD. I was implying that it <I>was</I> about money.
As always: Nobody is saying that Fleetwood Mac should completely stop playing any and all of their hits. But they don't need to play seven songs from Rumours every single night of a given tour.
See my post about how mind-numbingly simple it would be to substantially mix up their setlists while still including a slew of major hits.
#3 Hey, I like Fleetwood Mac. They're my favorite band. I'm not entirely happy with the set list either...but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
Perhaps not, but you don't have to apologize for them and make excuses. Their setlist decisions are totally indefensible. Except for the possibility that Lindsey and Stevie are simply incredibly uncomfortable with mixing things up, there's not a single good reason for them to do what they do in regards to their setlists.
Boots
02-09-2006, 04:32 PM
I have to say that after reading and participating in all these terrific, thought provoking comments about the set lists of a FM concert - a thought occured to me.
Thank GOD that they are all alive! I mean, it's been over 30 years, and not one of them has passed on! So, let them play whatever they want. After losing 2 out of 4 Beatles, and all those regrets of what might have been if Lennon were alive, or Zappa, or Elvis...Thank goodness "the five" are still around making music and sharing this world with us.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:34 PM
To compare, there was a Fleetwood Mac reunion tour in 1997. Prior to that, the last large-scale Fleetwood Mac tour had been in 1990. But they had been off the road for nearly six years when the Say You Will tour began in 2003.
As always: Nobody is saying that Fleetwood Mac should completely stop playing any and all of their hits. But they don't need to play seven songs from Rumours every single night of a given tour.
Perhaps not, but you don't have to apologize for them and make excuses. Their setlist decisions are totally indefensible. Except for the possibility that Lindsey and Stevie are simply incredibly uncomfortable with mixing things up, there's not a single good reason for them to do what they do in regards to their setlists.
True...the mac did tour in 97 and it was a 40 date tour. Probably would've been bigger had Lindsey agreed to more shows. The one reason I think the Say You Will tour wasnt as big as it should have been was because of the lack of Christine on the tour and the album. But, thats a whole 'nuther can of worms.
If Fleetwood Mac wanna play 7 or 8 songs from Rumours a night they can do that. Like I said...I DONT LIKE it either, I'd love to see more Tusk and Mirage stuff but I can't make that call. I cant do anything about that.
And I never apologized for Fleetwood Mac making poor setlist choices or making excuses for them. I'm simply giving you reasons <I>why</I> these things possibly are the way they are. You know, another opinion from your own. And as far as mixing the setlist up...once again, there is a defensible reason as to why....MONEY. Everyone has to get paid. The album didnt sell terribly well...tours are expensive. Dont think for a minute the management and agents and lawyers and nose pickers arent telling them they have to keep the setlist more "safe" to bring in more crowds. Does it make it right? No. Do I like it? Not really. But thats the state of the music biz right now.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:36 PM
I have to say that after reading and participating in all these terrific, thought provoking comments about the set lists of a FM concert - a thought occured to me.
Thank GOD that they are all alive! I mean, it's been over 30 years, and not one of them has passed on! So, let them play whatever they want. After losing 2 out of 4 Beatles, and all those regrets of what might have been if Lennon were alive, or Zappa, or Elvis...Thank goodness "the five" are still around making music and sharing this world with us.
see my reply in David's "Let's Be Thankful" thread
chiliD
02-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Thank goodness "the five" are still around making music and sharing this world with us.
All 16 members are alive...why do people keep forgetting that there ARE more members to Fleetwood Mac than "the five"??
Conversely, the Allman Bros Band have: lost an Allman & three bass players, yet are as great as ever. (and in some ways, even BETTER than ever)
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:38 PM
All 16 members are alive...why do people keep forgetting that there ARE more members to Fleetwood Mac than "the five"??
oh ****, here he goes!
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:38 PM
True...the mac did tour in 97 and it was a 40 date tour. Probably would've been bigger had Lindsey agreed to more shows. The one reason I think the Say You Will tour wasnt as big as it should have been was because of the lack of Christine on the tour and the album. But, thats a whole 'nuther can of worms.
If Fleetwood Mac wanna play 7 or 8 songs from Rumours a night they can do that. Like I said...I DONT LIKE it either, I'd love to see more Tusk and Mirage stuff but I can't make that call. I cant do anything about that.
And I never apologized for Fleetwood Mac making poor setlist choices or making excuses for them. I'm simply giving you reasons <I>why</I> these things possibly are the way they are. You know, another opinion from your own. And as far as mixing the setlist up...once again, there is a defensible reason as to why....MONEY. Everyone has to get paid. The album didnt sell terribly well...tours are expensive. Dont think for a minute the management and agents and lawyers and nose pickers arent telling them they have to keep the setlist more "safe" to bring in more crowds. Does it make it right? No. Do I like it? Not really. But thats the state of the music biz right now.
are you listening...PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE.
agreed. they aren't as setlist adventursome as say Tori Amos or the Grateful Dead as chiliD pointed out, but they do try to change it up some...in my opinion, their outlook towards their setlists have never changed...it's been the same mindset since the 70's - and the mindset of most performers
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:39 PM
All 16 members are alive...why do people keep forgetting that there ARE more members to Fleetwood Mac than "the five"??
cause the others don't contribute to the band now - they aren't actively a part of FM
chiliD
02-09-2006, 04:42 PM
True...the mac did tour in 97 and it was a 40 date tour. Probably would've been bigger had Lindsey agreed to more shows.
It WASN'T limited to 40 dates because of Lindsey...it was Christine who put the kabosh on extending the tour.:nod:
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:43 PM
It WASN'T limited to 40 dates because of Lindsey...it was Christine who put the kabosh on extending the tour.:nod:
true, but originally I think Lindsey only signed on for the States....I guess he had more fun than he thought he would.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 04:43 PM
cause the others don't contribute to the band now - they aren't actively a part of FM
In that case, "the five" aren't "FIVE" anymore. So, let's just ignore that Christine ever was in the band, then, eh?
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 04:44 PM
In that case, "the five" aren't "FIVE" anymore. So, let's just ignore that Christine ever was in the band, then, eh?
Excellent idea ChiliD, you get full credit for that one. moving on.....
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 04:53 PM
In that case, "the five" aren't "FIVE" anymore. So, let's just ignore that Christine ever was in the band, then, eh?
sounds good to me.
anyway, another thing I loved about The Dance was the celebrities in the crowd. It was cool to see them really able to experience their idols in plain view and seemingly happy to be back together.
True...the mac did tour in 97 and it was a 40 date tour. Probably would've been bigger had Lindsey agreed to more shows.
Typo?
If Fleetwood Mac wanna play 7 or 8 songs from Rumours a night they can do that.
Well, clearly, and they do.
And I never apologized for Fleetwood Mac making poor setlist choices or making excuses for them. I'm simply giving you reasons <I>why</I> these things possibly are the way they are. You know, another opinion from your own.
But we agree on why they do it, don't we? They think it's the only way people will come see them.
And as far as mixing the setlist up...once again, there is a defensible reason as to why....MONEY.
The whole point of my frustration is that this is not a defensible reason, because mixing up their setlists would have no bearing whatsoever on the amount of money they bring in. Again, see my post about how incredibly easy it would be to significantly mix up their setlists in such a way that they could play all kinds of different "rarities" for the hardcore fans while still playing a whole bunch of their big hits.
In addition, casual fans have no idea what Fleetwood Mac's setlist is going to be before they buy their concert tickets. That's why they're casual fans - they don't look this stuff up. They're just going to have a fun night out and hopefully hear some hits.
But even if they did look these things up, and even if Fleetwood Mac decided to mix up their setlists, do you think there is any remotely significant portion of their casual fanbase who would say, "Gosh, they're only going to play four songs off Rumours? They're going to play 'Sara' but not 'Rhiannon'? Screw it, I'm not going."?
Dont think for a minute the management and agents and lawyers and nose pickers arent telling them they have to keep the setlist more "safe" to bring in more crowds.
Please. A bunch of multimillionaires could stand up to a group of know-nothing sponsors and lawyers if they wanted to. They choose not to because they simply don't care enough to.
are you listening...PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE.
agreed. they aren't as setlist adventursome as say Tori Amos or the Grateful Dead as chiliD pointed out, but they do try to change it up some...
Change it up how? They play the same songs in the same order for virtually the entire tour. Between the two legs of the SYW tour, they swapped out three songs of twenty-something.
in my opinion, their outlook towards their setlists have never changed...it's been the same mindset since the 70's - and the mindset of most performers
No. There are indeed many other performers who adopt the stagnant setlist philosophy, but it's definitely not "most."
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 05:02 PM
Typo?.
The whole point of my frustration is that this is not a defensible reason, because mixing up their setlists would have no bearing whatsoever on the amount of money they bring in.
Please. A bunch of multimillionaires could stand up to a group of know-nothing sponsors and lawyers if they wanted to. They choose not to because they simply don't care enough to.
No, no typo...
Then go work in the music biz and try to change the system. Otherwise, there aint sh*t you can do about it but sit here with me and argue over it.
The Mac probably can stand some ground...but if the almighty sponsors wont back the tour...then the band has to start putting up their own money. Rest assured they arent gonna do that. It's commending enough that Lindsey put up some of his own cash to make SYW a double album. As far as them simply not "caring" enough to...? You may be right. But hell, they're all in their late 50s and none of them have to continue doing this. So the fact that they still are is also commendable. Like I said before, some Mac is better than no Mac.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 05:04 PM
Change it up how? They play the same songs in the same order for virtually the entire tour. Between the two legs of the SYW tour, they swapped out three songs of twenty-something.
No. There are indeed many other performers who adopt the stagnant setlist philosophy, but it's definitely not "most."
I'm not arguing these points any further.
it is what it is.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 05:26 PM
Like I said before, some Mac is better than no Mac.
These days, the "some" is coming in with diminishing returns...maybe "no Mac" would be the better route for them to go...but, no, they won't pack it in until unfortunately either Mick or John goes six feet under.
They need "new blood"; and that can be done by "going back again". Add Bob Welch to the recent lineup and I'll bet that they'd show some signs of life again.
No, no typo...
All right, well as chiliD pointed out, Lindsey was all set to add more dates to the tour. It was Christine who wanted a ticket homeward bound.
Then go work in the music biz and try to change the system. Otherwise, there aint sh*t you can do about it but sit here with me and argue over it.
The Mac probably can stand some ground...but if the almighty sponsors wont back the tour...then the band has to start putting up their own money. Rest assured they arent gonna do that.
Conspiracy theories about the big evil music industry might hold water if we were talking about some no-name or three-hit wonder band. This is Fleetwood Mac. Within reason, they can do what they want and still retain their major league supporters. If they told their sponsors, "Hey, we're only going to play nine megahits a night instead of fifteen," there are no sponsors in the world who would say, "Oh well then, clearly nobody's going to come see you, we're not going to sponsor your tour anymore." Again, for the reasons I posted about mixing up the setlist having little to do with how many people come and see them. The argument simply doesn't wash.
(And by the way, nothing about this thread has anything to do with, "Here's the plan to actually make Fleetwood Mac change their setlists." This is simply a message board debate. I'm not claiming that you or I or anybody else can snap our fingers and make them change how they do things.)
It's commending enough that Lindsey put up some of his own cash to make SYW a double album. As far as them simply not "caring" enough to...? You may be right. But hell, they're all in their late 50s and none of them have to continue doing this. So the fact that they still are is also commendable.
How are these things "commendable"? They're simply facts. Launching a tour and raking in millions of dollars isn't "commendable," it's simply what musicians do.
Like I said before, some Mac is better than no Mac.
I agree. That's why I've got The Dance and Live in Boston. And if a new Mac tour rolls around, and it's not significantly different from the last outing, then I'll have The Dance, Live in Boston and a wad of money.
If you or Jason have some evidence of a bunch of major rockstars who launched tours that involved mixing up the setlist from night to night, and the sponsors pulled out because of that, or people didn't go because of that, I'm anxious to hear about it.
Until then, here's an article about the first show on Billy Joel's current tour. He just sold out eleven straight nights at Madison Square Garden. Yes, he's been off the road for a while, so demand is high, but he never sold anywhere near as many albums as Fleetwood Mac, an eleven straight nights at MSG is an incredible feat (and a record) no matter who's playing.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/reviews/live_review_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001841887
Billy has certainly been playing plenty of hits on this tour so far, with "Piano Man," "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant," "We Didn't Start The Fire," and plenty more appearing every night or almost every night. But he's also been throwing in stuff like "Great Wall of China" and "Miami 2017" and "Summer, Highland Falls" and "Vienna" and "Zanzibar" and "Lullabye." Amazingly, the fact that he's been playing rarities and mixing things up has been met with very positive press. I wouldn't be surprised if it's encouraged some people to go to the shows, either.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 05:35 PM
All right, well as chiliD pointed out, Lindsey was all set to add more dates to the tour. It was Christine who wanted a ticket homeward bound.
(And by the way, nothing about this thread has anything to do with, "Here's the plan to actually make Fleetwood Mac change their setlists."
How are these things "commendable"? They're simply facts. Launching a tour and raking in millions of dollars isn't "commendable," it's simply what musicians do.
As much as I love him, ChiliD isnt the ultimate author-I-tie on the Mac's goings ons. Christine wanted a ticket homeward and Lindsey has stated on numerous occasions that he was "more than happy" she didnt want to continue on because with the 2 of them of that mindset, it was easier to bow out. Boo-yah.
Then what do you suggest? I dont know what your point is here other than you're unhappy with the setlist and that Fleetwood Mac should change it up. None of the reasons you have given are any less convincing in the argument for them to change it. for all we know, maybe the BAND likes playing all those old songs and that could be the final "pat" answer.
You think that a guy like Lindsey Buckingham, in a band like Fleetwood Mac, comes up against his 3 other bandmates, their management, their lawyers...all pushing for it NOT to be a double album....and then Lindsey is willing to front the cash out of his own pocket for the craft isnt't commendable? Not only is it that, but that's ballsy too. How many musicians today want to do the bare minimum album of 10 or 11 songs, or whatever they get royalties on? It isnt simply "what muscians do"...its what great musicians do.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 05:40 PM
As much as I love him, ChiliD isnt the ultimate author-I-tie on the Mac's goings ons. Christine wanted a ticket homeward and Lindsey has stated on numerous occasions that he was "more than happy" she didnt want to continue on because with the 2 of them of that mindset, it was easier to bow out. Boo-yah.
Then what do you suggest? I dont know what your point is here other than you're unhappy with the setlist and that Fleetwood Mac should change it up. None of the reasons you have given are any less convincing in the argument for them to change it. for all we know, maybe the BAND likes playing all those old songs and that could be the final "pat" answer.
You think that a guy like Lindsey Buckingham, in a band like Fleetwood Mac, comes up against his 3 other bandmates, their management, their lawyers...all pushing for it NOT to be a double album....and then Lindsey is willing to front the cash out of his own pocket for the craft isnt't commendable? Not only is it that, but that's ballsy too. How many musicians today want to do the bare minimum album of 10 or 11 songs, or whatever they get royalties on? It isnt simply "what muscians do"...its what great musicians do.
you're exactly right. the fact remains, no one know why they do what they do.
bitching and criticizing is so easy
Then what do you suggest? I dont know what your point is here other than you're unhappy with the setlist and that Fleetwood Mac should change it up. None of the reasons you have given are any less convincing in the argument for them to change it.
I'm not suggesting anything, I don't think Fleetwood Mac is going to change anytime soon. I simply find the attitude of "Well, this is just how it is, so you shouldn't complain about it, rather you should be thankful that they tour at all" to be a little ridiculous, particularly when coupled with the excuses of "Well, then the casual fans won't come... well, then the sponsors will back out...," both of which are almost completely unsubstantiated.
for all we know, maybe the BAND likes playing all those old songs and that could be the final "pat" answer.
I'm sure they don't actively dislike playing those songs, but we've got plenty of evidence they don't play the same stale hit parade night in and night out simply because they enjoy it.
John, for one, doesn't care what they play, he'll do whatever everybody else is doing as long he's standing there playing bass.
Stevie has gone on record numerous times prattling on about, "Oh, I'd love to play some of those rarer songs, but then the casual fans won't come." Which, as always, is utter crap. She obviously loved doing the "acoustic set" on the Enchanted tour, and the audiences loved it too.
As for Lindsey: How many times have you watched Soundstage? Can you honestly tell me that he wasn't beyond thrilled to play SGCYM, "Down On Rodeo," etc.? He gets choked up several times.
You think that a guy like Lindsey Buckingham, in a band like Fleetwood Mac, comes up against his 3 other bandmates, their management, their lawyers...all pushing for it NOT to be a double album....and then Lindsey is willing to front the cash out of his own pocket for the craft isnt't commendable? Not only is it that, but that's ballsy too.
It's certainly ballsy, but a multimillionaire offering to put up some of his own cash to release his music as he wants it isn't particularly commendable. There are tons of musicians who do this every day, who have a lot less money in their bank accounts, and a lot more riding on the potential success of their music.
How many musicians today want to do the bare minimum album of 10 or 11 songs, or whatever they get royalties on?
I don't know, how many? I see a lot of overstuffed CDs out there these days with lots of filler, and lots of great 11 song albums... and lots of crappy 11 song albums. I can't think of any popular musician who has the attitude of "I just want to do the bare minimum because I don't care about my music," though.
you're exactly right. the fact remains, no one know why they do what they do.
bitching and criticizing is so easy
So is sitting back and accepting the status quo. So is sitting at your computer and posting anything at all on an Internet message board. No one's claiming to be a fight-for-your-rights champion here.
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 05:57 PM
So is sitting back and accepting the status quo. So is sitting at your computer and posting anything at all on an Internet message board. No one's claiming to be a fight-for-your-rights champion here.
whatever dude...
Brwn_eyes0511
02-09-2006, 06:05 PM
sounds good to me.
Don't say that...
Your precious Stevie songs might never have been "famous" within the context of FM without Christine being there...
TomBanks147
02-09-2006, 06:05 PM
You think that a guy like Lindsey Buckingham, in a band like Fleetwood Mac, comes up against his 3 other bandmates, their management, their lawyers...all pushing for it NOT to be a double album....and then Lindsey is willing to front the cash out of his own pocket for the craft isnt't commendable? Not only is it that, but that's ballsy too. How many musicians today want to do the bare minimum album of 10 or 11 songs, or whatever they get royalties on? It isnt simply "what muscians do"...its what great musicians do.
FINALLY someone agrees. MyLittleDemon you share the same opinion as me. Everyone on these boards seems to wine on about how Fleetwood Mac are a bunch of money spinners. About how every decision they make is bad. It’s kind of irritant.
Be it a new album, DVD, Tour, soundtrack (with the exclusion of talk off a ‘Best of Stevie Nicks’ which will be down to the music business taking advantage of the recent tour and trying to bring in some revenue for themselves.) Everything Fleetwood mac or it members do is for the fans. Be it the casual fans or the hardcore fans like many of us.
Sure Mick in particular might of liked to indulge himself in the money he earnt but just look at his face when he’s playing. He has a love for performing, playing drums. He has a passion for all things Fleetwood mac.
Stevie again in the same boat loves the attention she gets from a crowd paying attention to her every detail. She loves performing isn’t it obvious?
John McVie asks if he can come back and do another Q and A for us. Doesn’t that show his love and dedication to the band? He isn’t doing it for money. Do you think we show how grateful we are by slagging everything they’ve done post Dance?
Lindsey Buckingham, contributing a song to a soundtrack. Releasing a DVD full of songs that only the die-hards will really understand and appreciate. Being responsible for SYW being SYW. An album full of songs, mainly for the big fans, consisting of 18 tracks because he wanted to share his artwork. The guy has a portable studio for god sake.
Fleetwood Mac are anything but selfish money driven people. Sure there shows may seem nostalgic at times but there back catalogue is so immense any song they play would put them in that category really. There set list time is incredibly admiral. They love being on stage with each other and are very dedicated and tonight I think I’ll go and watch Destiny Rules to confirm my faith in a band that is doing something for the love of it rather than the money.
I’m going to stop now because this is getting to long but Tusk went of a completely different tangent to rumours for every reason but the money. I just can’t see you point’s of view’s to say everything they do/have done is a money scheme. It baffles me.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 06:07 PM
It's certainly ballsy, but a multimillionaire offering to put up some of his own cash to release his music as he wants it isn't particularly commendable. There are tons of musicians who do this every day, who have a lot less money in their bank accounts, and a lot more riding on the potential success of their music.
I don't know, how many? I see a lot of overstuffed CDs out there these days with lots of filler, and lots of great 11 song albums... and lots of crappy 11 song albums. I can't think of any popular musician who has the attitude of "I just want to do the bare minimum because I don't care about my music," though.
But to still DO IT WHEN YOU DONT HAVE TO. That's commendable to me. He was more concerned with the art and craft of the album than the money he stood to profit from it. Wake up.
Almost every major album released today has less than 12 songs on it. most records companies will pay "x" amount of royalties on an album that has fewer songs on it. I don't know of a musician that wants to do the bare minimum either, but with the majority of CDs being released with LESS than 12 songs...doesnt that stand to show that most artists are not willing include more work on an album simply because of money...? I've been saying it for the past up-teen posts...its about money. A manager says "hey you know this album flows better with 15 songs...but you're only gonna get paid for 12 of them..." Dont think for a second that they wont pull those tracks. This goes right back to the argument about about the double album/Lindsey's personal cash stash thing.
As far as your argument about the setlist...there's no way around it. Complain all you want. I won't defend the crappy setlist-as-usual but I'll give you reasons WHY it is the way it is. If you dont like them I dont know what else to say.
goldustsongbird
02-09-2006, 06:20 PM
I thought this was called the Dance appreciation thread? I don't know about you, but this sort of looks like the let's bitch about the set list and tour thread...
Almost every major album released today has less than 12 songs on it.
Hasn't 11 or 12 songs - or around 40-45 minutes of music - always been the norm for albums? The trend over the past ten years or so has been more and more albums that clock in at an hour or more, simply because CDs can hold that much music. Hip-hop albums in particular are notoriously for being overlong and having upwards of twenty tracks (which still leaves 14 or 15 songs if a bunch of those tracks are skits).
TomBanks147
02-09-2006, 06:29 PM
Hasn't 11 or 12 songs - or around 40-45 minutes of music - always been the norm for albums? The trend over the past ten years or so has been more and more albums that clock in at an hour or more, simply because CDs can hold that much music. Hip-hop albums in particular are notoriously for being overlong and having upwards of twenty tracks (which still leaves 14 or 15 songs if a bunch of those tracks are skits).
Could only ever fit that much on a Vinyl. more than 12 songs is pretty rare im afraid.
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 06:34 PM
Hasn't 11 or 12 songs - or around 40-45 minutes of music - always been the norm for albums? The trend over the past ten years or so has been more and more albums that clock in at an hour or more, simply because CDs can hold that much music. Hip-hop albums in particular are notoriously for being overlong and having upwards of twenty tracks (which still leaves 14 or 15 songs if a bunch of those tracks are skits).
well vinyl was only decent up to about 40+ minutes back in the day. Cds hold about 80 minutes of music tops...but an album that clocks in at more than an hour is still a "long" album.
amber
02-09-2006, 06:39 PM
I thought this was called the Dance appreciation thread? I don't know about you, but this sort of looks like the let's bitch about the set list and tour thread...
yeah but this always happens. That's why the ledge is interesting. I mean, would you want to read pages of people saying: "The Dance is rad!" "Yes, it is rad!" "Oh, I love the Dance, too!" "Me, too!".
Blergh. :)
goldustsongbird
02-09-2006, 06:55 PM
yeah but this always happens. That's why the ledge is interesting. I mean, would you want to read pages of people saying: "The Dance is rad!" "Yes, it is rad!" "Oh, I love the Dance, too!" "Me, too!".
Blergh. :)
:rolleyes: It'd be better than reading pages of people bitching about the things they are. Yeah, so, they're being a little by the book on stage, but I don't find that unusual. Did they relax a bit during other shows that weren't being officially recorded? (I'm really asking here; I didn't see them on the Dance tour, and just listening to boots doesn't tell you much) It makes sense to me that they'd be a bit more reserved... Just like the audience was asked to be, since they were at a taping.
Yeah, so, they're being a little by the book on stage, but I don't find that unusual. Did they relax a bit during other shows that weren't being officially recorded? (I'm really asking here; I didn't see them on the Dance tour, and just listening to boots doesn't tell you much) It makes sense to me that they'd be a bit more reserved... Just like the audience was asked to be, since they were at a taping.
Lindsey's really the only who ever seems to talk in between songs, but all of his little speeches on the Dance and SYW tours were more or less scripted. He'd say the same thing, almost word for word, every night. Are those speeches cut out on the bootlegs you have?
mylittledemon
02-09-2006, 07:05 PM
Lindsey's really the only who ever seems to talk in between songs, but all of his little speeches on the Dance and SYW tours were more or less scripted. He'd say the same thing, almost word for word, every night. Are those speeches cut out on the bootlegs you have?
The bootlegs of The Dance shows are just as boring (and some as horrid) as any of the Say You Will boots. I would think you wouldn't be interested in the regurgiated setlist as such.
goldustsongbird
02-09-2006, 07:09 PM
Lindsey's really the only who ever seems to talk in between songs, but all of his little speeches on the Dance and SYW tours were more or less scripted. He'd say the same thing, almost word for word, every night. Are those speeches cut out on the bootlegs you have?
No, the speeches are still there. He does say pretty much the same thing. At least on the Dance boots. I haven't listened to enough of my SYW bootlegs to notice. I mean in terms of actual stage action, though... Was it more relaxed? Was Christine at least a little happier? ;p
I think Lindsey's the only one who really interacts with the crowd during concerts. Going right up to the edge of the stage, letting people play his guitar... I know Stevie does the "Edge walk", but do you think she'd ever let people play her tamb, or something?
amber
02-09-2006, 07:21 PM
:rolleyes: It'd be better than reading pages of people bitching about the things they are. .
I think they were fine, too - but I just skip if I don't want to read. But then, I have the luxury of knowing who will be bitching. :laugh: I guess it just doesn't bother me much anymore. Besides, I hate it when I threadjack, and then someone is all "can we stay on topic? Mleah! Mleah!" :laugh:
BTW - I thought The Dance was spectacular. I especially love how it got so many youngins to like the Mac. I feel retroactively vindicated for the times when I was young, and I liked almost all music from the past.
chiliD
02-09-2006, 07:38 PM
I thought this was called the Dance appreciation thread? I don't know about you, but this sort of looks like the let's bitch about the set list and tour thread...
It is what it is. I guess The Dance wasn't all that appreciated after all, eh? :shrug:
JazmenFlowers
02-09-2006, 07:55 PM
It is what it is. I guess The Dance wasn't all that appreciated after all, eh? :shrug:
yes, it was and is
that's all.
amber
02-09-2006, 08:01 PM
It is what it is. I guess The Dance wasn't all that appreciated after all, eh? :shrug:
:laugh: :laugh:
wise a**.
ReFleetwoodMac
02-09-2006, 11:50 PM
A manager says "hey you know this album flows better with 15 songs...but you're only gonna get paid for 12 of them..." Dont think for a second that they wont pull those tracks.
Why would they take off songs just because they wouldn't make money off of them? Unless they were being concerned for the record label and didn't want to make them pay for studio time when the artist wouldn't be able to kindly pay it back, it doesn't make much sense. The artist doesn't lose money just from singing or playing an instrument do they?
The bootlegs of The Dance shows are just as boring (and some as horrid) as any of the Say You Will boots. I would think you wouldn't be interested in the regurgiated setlist as such.
I'm not! I don't have any Dance tour boots, hence my question. I've got one SYW tour boot that someone sent me in a trade before I knew we were going to have Live in Boston.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-10-2006, 03:59 AM
I'm not! I don't have any Dance tour boots,
Ummm...you MUST get the "Dancing Again" bootleg, if for no other reason than to hear a fantastic version of "Oh Daddy"! :D
Nicks Fan
02-10-2006, 11:15 AM
To me the dance is what made me a fan. I always thought that the harmonies and vocals were top notch. However when you lok back it does seem like they did it for the money. I mean I don't know their persoanl fianances but I would guess that the income generated would have bee a help to some of the members (Mick for example if you belive all the stories squandered all of his money on drugs and bad investments). However whether or not it was about the money I don't care, for the diehard fans and casual fans it was a chance to have the rumours line up reunited after having gone through the ten years of various members coming and going.
The SYW album was pretty good even if Christine wasn't on it. What makes me mad is how the set list is soooo stale and stagnant. Anybody who argues that the tour was not about the money is wrong. The songs were done the same as they always have been done. The dialogue was even the same night after night.
What I find interesting is how Lindsey did alot of lesser known stuff on his Soundsatge performance but he didn't do the same with the SYW tour. They have made enough money I think that they could afford to be a litle adventerous for once.
Come on Fm live a little and stop thinking about dollar signs!!!!
Matt
Boots
02-10-2006, 01:02 PM
:rolleyes: Did they relax a bit during other shows that weren't being officially recorded? (I'm really asking here; I didn't see them on the Dance tour, and just listening to boots doesn't tell you much)
Do me a favor. I'm new here. If the "boots" mention is in reference toward me, then I'm outta here. Because that has snark written all over it, and since I haven't established myself here - nor have I been welcomed by many through my posts, the insinuation that my comments are not important is BS. My comments about The Dance were not to enlighten anyone - it was just a post that explained my feelings about the reunion. "Just listening to boots doesn't tell you much?" What the hell are you looking at my post for information? If you're trying to gleen any nuance on what The Dance is about from what I posted, then you're pathetically barking up the wrong tree.
If you weren't referring to me, than I apologize for this blow up. But if you were - "F" this.... I've posted on more intense forums than this, and have been in dragged out verbal fights with people, but it only took less than a day of my signing up on this board for someone to be underhandly obnoxious. I came here to talk about a band I love - not this crap. My thick skin has quickly thinned. I'm outta here....already.
JazmenFlowers
02-10-2006, 01:12 PM
Do me a favor. I'm new here. If the "boots" mention is in reference toward me, then I'm outta here. Because that has snark written all over it, and since I haven't established myself here - nor have I been welcomed by many through my posts, the insinuation that my comments are not important is BS. My comments about The Dance were not to enlighten anyone - it was just a post that explained my feelings about the reunion. "Just listening to boots doesn't tell you much?" What the hell are you looking at my post for information? If you're trying to gleen any nuance on what The Dance is about from what I posted, then you're pathetically barking up the wrong tree.
If you weren't referring to me, than I apologize for this blow up. But if you were - "F" this.... I've posted on more intense forums than this, and have been in dragged out verbal fights with people, but it only took less than a day of my signing up on this board for someone to be underhandly obnoxious. I came here to talk about a band I love - not this crap. My thick skin has quickly thinned. I'm outta here....already.
it is very clear that the "boots" reference is with respect to BOOTLEG recordings regarding the band
friendly advice, if you are unsure if someone is making a reference towards you, simply ask before going into a rant. for instance, there are several Jasons on this board, but I make sure I check to see which one is being "talked" to before I respond
now, all that said, just chill and keep on talking about the greatest band EVAHHHH...you're doing great
chiliD
02-10-2006, 01:29 PM
"Just listening to boots doesn't tell you much?"
As Jason just said..."boots" refers to the many unofficial live recordings being circulated through Fleetwood Mac fandom.
I'd consider Jason's advice.
(See, Jason? We agree on something! :D :wavey: )
HomerMcvie
02-10-2006, 01:57 PM
It's all about me! That's toooo funny. EVERYONE knows that boots is bootlegs, except you....:shocked: :lol: :sorry:
JazmenFlowers
02-10-2006, 02:01 PM
As Jason just said..."boots" refers to the many unofficial live recordings being circulated through Fleetwood Mac fandom.
I'd consider Jason's advice.
(See, Jason? We agree on something! :D :wavey: )
:xoxo:
even the most hardheaded can meet in the middle...sometimes
DavidMn
02-10-2006, 02:46 PM
it is very clear that the "boots" reference is with respect to BOOTLEG recordings regarding the band
friendly advice, if you are unsure if someone is making a reference towards you, simply ask before going into a rant. for instance, there are several Jasons on this board, but I make sure I check to see which one is being "talked" to before I respond
now, all that said, just chill and keep on talking about the greatest band EVAHHHH...you're doing greatWhat a peacemaker you are!:nod:
chiliD
02-10-2006, 05:13 PM
:xoxo:
even the most hardheaded can meet in the middle...sometimes
{high five} :thumbsup:
mylittledemon
02-10-2006, 06:12 PM
If you weren't referring to me, than I apologize for this blow up. But if you were - "F" this.... I've posted on more intense forums than this, and have been in dragged out verbal fights with people, but it only took less than a day of my signing up on this board for someone to be underhandly obnoxious. I came here to talk about a band I love - not this crap. My thick skin has quickly thinned. I'm outta here....already.
Thats like saying, I don't mean to be an @$$hole, BUT.... The "but" indicates you are gonna be one anyway! haha...you should be condemned for your impertinence. I even think in MY posts I clear spelled out the word "bootlegs." how you jumped to the conclusion that you did is nigh-unfathomable. Perhaps you're used to being treated that way on other boards. We ALL disagree quite often on the Ledge, but thats what makes the place interesting. Once again, can't we all get along? Just show some love. I am. Your opinion is appreciated and duly noted, but you're still condemned....ooooooohhhhh *insert Jaws theme*
Brwn_eyes0511
02-10-2006, 06:19 PM
It's all about me! That's toooo funny. EVERYONE knows that boots is bootlegs, except you....:shocked: :lol: :sorry:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
HomerMcvie
02-10-2006, 06:51 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
M*. You have to say something. YOU said so!:wavey:
Brwn_eyes0511
02-10-2006, 06:56 PM
M*. You have to say something. YOU said so!:wavey:
DAMN! You are right...hmmmm...
This thread was such a great idea, thanks for taking the time out of your day to do this:nod:
goldustsongbird
02-11-2006, 07:57 PM
Do me a favor. I'm new here. If the "boots" mention is in reference toward me, then I'm outta here. Because that has snark written all over it, and since I haven't established myself here - nor have I been welcomed by many through my posts, the insinuation that my comments are not important is BS. My comments about The Dance were not to enlighten anyone - it was just a post that explained my feelings about the reunion. "Just listening to boots doesn't tell you much?" What the hell are you looking at my post for information? If you're trying to gleen any nuance on what The Dance is about from what I posted, then you're pathetically barking up the wrong tree.
If you weren't referring to me, than I apologize for this blow up. But if you were - "F" this.... I've posted on more intense forums than this, and have been in dragged out verbal fights with people, but it only took less than a day of my signing up on this board for someone to be underhandly obnoxious. I came here to talk about a band I love - not this crap. My thick skin has quickly thinned. I'm outta here....already.
Uh, "boots" as in bootlegs? Chill, thank you. Talk about barking up the wrong tree.
WelshWitchPMD
02-11-2006, 09:40 PM
I had been hearing some rumours of a Fleetwood Mac reunion since 1996 and I was very excited about it. I remember trying to figure out a way to get a ticket out to LA for the taping.:laugh: I would have never gotten a ticket and my Mom passed away just a few weeks before the taping anyway.
Knowing that Fleetwood Mac were filming a concert video and planning a big tour was what kept me going after my Mom passed. I was very excited when The Dance debuted on MTV. I did think that they mellowed a bit but I knew that they were older and I was just happy that all 5 of them were back performing again.:)
I do remember ordering a promo copy of The Dance CD and I got it the Friday before the official release. I was supposed to get it a week before but thanks to a UPS strike at the time I got it later and I was not too happy.:mad:
I went to only 2 Dance shows opening night in Hartford CT and then Mansfield, Ma. I really wished that I had gone to see more shows but I was not quite a world traveler yet,
johndoe
02-11-2006, 09:43 PM
Whoa. I remember the UPS strike. It held me up from getting my first bike. I just like, remembered that after reading what you wrote.Weird.
mylittledemon
02-11-2006, 10:26 PM
Whoa. I remember the UPS strike. It held me up from getting my first bike. I just like, remembered that after reading what you wrote.Weird.
you said 'strike', 'bike' and 'like' all in the same paragraph. Stunning.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-11-2006, 10:26 PM
you said 'strike', 'bike' and 'like' all in the same paragraph. Stunning.
Bwahahahah...:lol:
goldustsongbird
02-11-2006, 10:44 PM
Bwahahahah...:lol:
:shocked: Your avatar! Where is that from?
johndoe
02-11-2006, 10:51 PM
you said 'strike', 'bike' and 'like' all in the same paragraph. Stunning.
Wow. I didn't even pick up on that. Damn rhymes.
macfan 57
02-12-2006, 06:31 AM
:shocked: Your avatar! Where is that from?
goldustsongbird, check the blues piano thread in the Chris forum. I just posted some Chicken Shack pictures there.:)
Ummm...you MUST get the "Dancing Again" bootleg, if for no other reason than to hear a fantastic version of "Oh Daddy"! :D
I've got zero interest in the full bootleg, but it'd be great if you could throw "Oh Daddy" up on YouSendIt or somewhere!
I'm sad this Boots person imploded into a self-destructing drama queen after only fifteen posts. S/he actually had interesting things to say...
macfan 57
02-13-2006, 08:20 AM
Here's "Oh Daddy" from the Dancing Again bootleg.
http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29E8IKNM2YPAD1LI3AAAXUL0QX
Here's "Oh Daddy" from the Dancing Again bootleg.
http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29E8IKNM2YPAD1LI3AAAXUL0QX
Thanks! Lindsey's solo is very nice, and I really like the prominence of the piano over the organ.
David
02-13-2006, 12:48 PM
Thanks! Lindsey's solo is very nice, and I really like the prominence of the piano over the organ.That's ol' Brett on piano. It's pretty.
ReFleetwoodMac
02-13-2006, 02:40 PM
Why does it sound like Lindsey's playing with a pick?
David
02-13-2006, 03:40 PM
Why does it sound like Lindsey's playing with a pick?That's an excellent question, Bobo. How are you?
Brwn_eyes0511
02-13-2006, 04:07 PM
That's ol' Brett on piano. It's pretty.
Yes...I figured that it was...
Christine's organ playing is...sigh...fantastic.
mylittledemon
02-13-2006, 04:15 PM
Why does it sound like Lindsey's playing with a pick?
Its the clean tone of his guitar, perhaps. It doesn't sound like a pick to me though...you can hear the flailing in it.
skcin
02-13-2006, 05:32 PM
I watched it for the first time while we were visiting my cousin in VA. She and her husband asked us if we minded watching it, since they hadn't seen the whole thing yet. We didn't mind. I really enjoyed it & realized "oh, so that's a Fleetwood Mac song too!" about several tunes.
It was on VH1 constantly, and if I happened to be flipping through channels when it was on, I always watched it. I heard they were coming to Buffalo; Mark & I really wanted to go. I got drunk the night before tickets went on sale & slept late, ended up with my 4 tix in the top row of the highest section of the new arena. :o The show was totally sold out within an hour.
I don't remember that much about the show itself, we were SO far away. I do remember that it was just like The Dance show I saw on TV except that there were more songs. I remember Stevie spinning & forgetting where in Rhiannon she was, and rushing over to the mike late for "dreams unwind..." I remember Stevie wore red boots for at least one song. I remember Chris's hair looked really blond under the lights and I'm pretty sure she wore that burgundy jacket. I remember freaking out when they did Stand Back because I had NO clue she had ever done it live with Mac. I remember being upset that they didn't do Sara because I had NO clue she hadn't done it live in over 20 years. I missed Little Lies and 7 Wonders too. I think at this point I had The Dance CD, and maybe GH, but that was it.
That Christmas, Mark bought me the VHS tape. I was thrilled. We put it in and nothing happened - the tape was defective! :mad: I was so mad, it was Christmas and I obviously couldn't exchange it that day. That's when something clicked in me - I wanted to see the show sooooo badly again, despite seeing The Dance on TV 20 times and seeing the live show.
So, in conclusion :laugh: - I adore The Dance. I don't care why they did it, I don't care if they weren't as wild & spontaneous as in the past - I didn't know anything different, and you can't miss what you've never experienced. My mom listend to Elvis & my dad listened to Bulgarian folk music while I was growing up, it's not like Rumours was blaring out of their 8 Track. If it weren't for The Dance, I wouldn't be here right now composing a long pointless post. So here's to you, Dance! You rock! :thumbsup:
cliffdweller
02-13-2006, 05:40 PM
Same here. I was... damn, fourteen? when it first started airing on TV.
Wha, wha, WHAAAAAAAAA??!!?!? You're only like 23?? I thought you were older than that. Okay, comencing with the rest of your post...
GypsySorcerer
02-13-2006, 05:46 PM
Its the clean tone of his guitar, perhaps. It doesn't sound like a pick to me though...you can hear the flailing in it.
Speaking of Lindsey and picks, has there ever been a definitive yes or no if he was using a pick on "Bleed to Love Her"?
amber
02-13-2006, 05:57 PM
ISo, in conclusion :laugh: - I adore The Dance. I don't care why they did it, I don't care if they weren't as wild & spontaneous as in the past - I didn't know anything different, and you can't miss what you've never experienced. My mom listend to Elvis & my dad listened to Bulgarian folk music while I was growing up, it's not like Rumours was blaring out of their 8 Track. If it weren't for The Dance, I wouldn't be here right now composing a long pointless post. So here's to you, Dance! You rock! :thumbsup:
:nod: :nod: :xoxo:
mylittledemon
02-13-2006, 06:05 PM
Speaking of Lindsey and picks, has there ever been a definitive yes or no if he was using a pick on "Bleed to Love Her"?
You mean on The Dance? You can obviously see his finger on the Dance he is not wearing any finger picks, or playing with one. The version on Say You Will sounds like a compressed strat to me, but it doesn't sound like he's using a pick there either. I think Lindsey only uses a pick for strumming...and even then he may not do so.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-13-2006, 06:12 PM
I watched it for the first time while we were visiting my cousin in VA. She and her husband asked us if we minded watching it, since they hadn't seen the whole thing yet. We didn't mind. I really enjoyed it & realized "oh, so that's a Fleetwood Mac song too!" about several tunes.
It was on VH1 constantly, and if I happened to be flipping through channels when it was on, I always watched it. I heard they were coming to Buffalo; Mark & I really wanted to go. I got drunk the night before tickets went on sale & slept late, ended up with my 4 tix in the top row of the highest section of the new arena. :o The show was totally sold out within an hour.
I don't remember that much about the show itself, we were SO far away. I do remember that it was just like The Dance show I saw on TV except that there were more songs. I remember Stevie spinning & forgetting where in Rhiannon she was, and rushing over to the mike late for "dreams unwind..." I remember Stevie wore red boots for at least one song. I remember Chris's hair looked really blond under the lights and I'm pretty sure she wore that burgundy jacket. I remember freaking out when they did Stand Back because I had NO clue she had ever done it live with Mac. I remember being upset that they didn't do Sara because I had NO clue she hadn't done it live in over 20 years. I missed Little Lies and 7 Wonders too. I think at this point I had The Dance CD, and maybe GH, but that was it.
That Christmas, Mark bought me the VHS tape. I was thrilled. We put it in and nothing happened - the tape was defective! :mad: I was so mad, it was Christmas and I obviously couldn't exchange it that day. That's when something clicked in me - I wanted to see the show sooooo badly again, despite seeing The Dance on TV 20 times and seeing the live show.
So, in conclusion :laugh: - I adore The Dance. I don't care why they did it, I don't care if they weren't as wild & spontaneous as in the past - I didn't know anything different, and you can't miss what you've never experienced. My mom listend to Elvis & my dad listened to Bulgarian folk music while I was growing up, it's not like Rumours was blaring out of their 8 Track. If it weren't for The Dance, I wouldn't be here right now composing a long pointless post. So here's to you, Dance! You rock! :thumbsup:
That has to be one of the best posts...ever! :lol: :xoxo:
Although I was still a kid (12) when they did The Dance...it is also the reason that I am here today...a few years ago a bought The Dance CD from a CD club...just because I remember hearing Landslide and Silver Springs on the radio alot around 97/98...and after that, I was hooked! :thumbsup:
Although I was still a kid (7) when they did The Dance...
Well, as long as people are being confused about my age...
Weren't you 11 or 12 in 1997?
johndoe
02-13-2006, 06:18 PM
I was...(I suck at math)...6 when they did The Dance.
Brwn_eyes0511
02-13-2006, 06:24 PM
Well, as long as people are being confused about my age...
Weren't you 11 or 12 in 1997?
Oh dear GOD! YES...I was 12...I have no clue what the freakin' hell I was typing there.
GypsySorcerer
02-13-2006, 07:18 PM
You mean on The Dance? You can obviously see his finger on the Dance he is not wearing any finger picks, or playing with one. The version on Say You Will sounds like a compressed strat to me, but it doesn't sound like he's using a pick there either. I think Lindsey only uses a pick for strumming...and even then he may not do so.
I meant "Temporary One" on the Dance, not "Bleed to Love Her." Oops. :o
mylittledemon
02-13-2006, 07:34 PM
I meant "Temporary One" on the Dance, not "Bleed to Love Her." Oops. :o
I dont so on that one either. He holds his hands in a manner that looks like he's using a pick but I didnt notice one. When I play chords like that (intro to I'm So Afraid and Go Your Own Way) it looks as if I'm holding a pick because your fingers are in that "position." I don't think I've seen Lindsey using a pick on anything live, ever.
SteveMacD
02-13-2006, 07:43 PM
I don't think I've seen Lindsey using a pick on anything live, ever.
He used one on "Over My Head" when they did Midnight Special in 1976. One of those big ones, too!
Brwn_eyes0511
02-13-2006, 07:55 PM
He used one on "Over My Head" when they did Midnight Special in 1976. One of those big ones, too!
Ahh...I'm watching this now. I had never noticed this before.
Oykamu
02-14-2006, 12:23 AM
I was 10 when my dad turned The Dance on on MTV. My sister and I laughed at it because they were playing "Tusk." It became a family joke to run around and randomly scream, "TUSK!" at the top of our lungs. Then my dad got the CD, and I heard "Silver Springs." I sat down in the middle of our living room surrounded by Stevie Nicks' voice (and those lyrics). I didn't stop listening to that CD for at least two years. My dad bought me the tape, and I would fall asleep curled around the tape player with my ear pressed up against the speakers.
I eventually saw the whole concert, and "Landslide" convinced me that Stevie Nicks was the most beautiful women alive. The whole video still gives me the chills.
It killed me that I was in Southern California when they played in Spokane (SYW Tour), and then I was near Spokane when they played in SoCal. I don't exactly have the capital to follow them around the country, so I hope they do at least one more tour.
amber
02-14-2006, 01:17 AM
I was 10 when my dad turned The Dance on on MTV. My sister and I laughed at it because they were playing "Tusk." It became a family joke to run around and randomly scream, "TUSK!" at the top of our lungs. Then my dad got the CD, and I heard "Silver Springs." I sat down in the middle of our living room surrounded by Stevie Nicks' voice (and those lyrics). I didn't stop listening to that CD for at least two years. My dad bought me the tape, and I would fall asleep curled around the tape player with my ear pressed up against the speakers.
I eventually saw the whole concert, and "Landslide" convinced me that Stevie Nicks was the most beautiful women alive. The whole video still gives me the chills.
It killed me that I was in Southern California when they played in Spokane (SYW Tour), and then I was near Spokane when they played in SoCal. I don't exactly have the capital to follow them around the country, so I hope they do at least one more tour.
Welcome. :) That's a great Dance story - I think I listened to it for 2 years straight as well.
That SoCa/Spokane thing sucks.
skcin
02-14-2006, 01:42 PM
a few years ago a bought The Dance CD from a CD club...just because I remember hearing Landslide and Silver Springs on the radio alot around 97/98...and after that, I was hooked! :thumbsup:
Ah. So Stevie actually sucked you into the Mac vortex initially. Interesting. :cool:
BTW - I MUST add this, I almost forgot about it. When The Dance came out, I was working at a group home with profoundly developmentally disabled kids. When I say profound, I want to explain - they couldn't talk, walk, feed or dress themselves, etc. And even though we always called them "the kids", many were older than me (I was 22 at that time.) Most of them were small for their age, had facial/skeletal deformities and various medical problems.
So. Louis. I love that boy, he was my favorite. He had a very large head & cranial deformities, and curly blond hair. I used to call him my lion. Despite his different appearance, he was so regal and handsome. His spine was so twisted that his usual position was laying on a mat on the living room floor his left side, propped up on his left elbow, legs curled up behind him. If he could see, I couldn't tell - he never really focused on anything. But sounds really got him going - whether it be someone saying his name, yelling, something dropping & breaking on the floor, whatever. He loved noise, he would either yell "Whooooo!" & start pounding that one good left hand on the ground or start laughing hysterically. He especially loved when someone sneezed - cracked him right up! :laugh:
My friend Ryan (yup, that's right, gay boyfriend #1 :D ) worked with me there - actually, that's how we met. We both started really getting into The Dance & whenever it was on TV, we would put it on while we were at work. I noticed that Louis really, really got excited whenever The Chain started - I think it was the drum intro. I thought it was a fluke, but he never got that excited over any other music! Others started noticing it too. It seemed that he reacted most to Stevie's voice, guitar solos & heavy drums & bass.
The Chain, Dreams, Silver Springs, ISA, Tusk - these I can vividly remember him listening to - his eyes would open up wider, he would swing that big ol' head around & around & tap his hand on the floor, every once in a while letting out a "whooo!" Over the next few months, I bought him the VHS tape, the CD and the agency took him to the concert in November '97. He loved it. :)
So, maybe that's another reason I'm still in love with it. To get those "kids" to react to something, to be able to communicate with them SOMEHOW, since verbally & visually was not an option, was just an amazing thing. When is happened, it just blew me away. I haven't seen Lou in a few years, I really need to go & visit him again. I hope that they still play his CD for him once in a while. He has great taste in music. :angel:
mylittledemon
02-14-2006, 03:32 PM
I noticed that Louis really, really got excited whenever The Chain started - I think it was the drum intro. :
"The Chain" will do that to a person.
cliffdweller
02-14-2006, 03:33 PM
Paula, that was an awesome post. It made me think about bonding over Fleetwood Mac and I too bonded with a very good friend over The Mac (well, more like Stevie) when I first became a fan 7 years ago. I have a drunken party picture to prove it: my friend Greg and I were trying to recreate the Rumours album cover (very poorly I might add) but we were so drunk I think I was falling over him and he had a beer in his hand instead of the ball thingy that Mick is holding :laugh:. Okay, the more I think about that night, the more it's really just hilarious and nothing like your heartfelt post that was so touching and beautiful. Okay, I'll stop now. :o
skcin
02-14-2006, 04:49 PM
^ Your story is cute! I think mine came off a bit too syrupy & sappy - I didn't mean it to. But I'll honestly never forget that experience.
cliffdweller
02-14-2006, 04:54 PM
^ Your story is cute! I think mine came off a bit too syrupy & sappy -
No it really didn't! I really admire your work with the "kids" and think it's awesome that The Mac brought some joy to their lives.
To answer the question at the root of this thread: What does "the Dance" mean to me?
Well...a very smooth, elegant manner of showcasing, to me, why Lindsey Buckingham is just so effing good at what he does. :xoxo:
Oh, and that Fleetwood Mac got back together, Stevie Nicks can still do her thing with the best of them, and Christine's impressive, and sorely missed, role in FM.
SteveMacD
02-15-2006, 10:52 PM
What "The Dance" meant to me? Fleetwood Mac was not over. About a year and a half earlier, Mick announced that he was working with Lindsey, and shortly thereafter announced that he breaking Fleetwood Mac up. I thought that was it. While I was happy that Mick and Lindsey were working together again, I was saddened that Fleetwood Mac was done. (Of course, that it was Mick and Lindsey who were working together gave myself and others SOME hope that the Mac would be back. And then there was "Twisted," which REALLY gave us hope. Those were the three who had the most bad blood between them.)
The tour that followed "The Dance" for me meant one more time to see Christine. I was positive even back then that this was her swansong, at least with touring.
Overall, it was fun seeing those five together again. But, I also knew that it meant that it become even less frequent between albums and tours, which has proven true.
DavidMn
02-16-2006, 04:44 PM
What "The Dance" meant to me? Fleetwood Mac was not over. About a year and a half earlier, Mick announced that he was working with Lindsey, and shortly thereafter announced that he breaking Fleetwood Mac up. I thought that was it. While I was happy that Mick and Lindsey were working together again, I was saddened that Fleetwood Mac was done. (Of course, that it was Mick and Lindsey who were working together gave myself and others SOME hope that the Mac would be back. And then there was "Twisted," which REALLY gave us hope. Those were the three who had the most bad blood between them.)
The tour that followed "The Dance" for me meant one more time to see Christine. I was positive even back then that this was her swansong, at least with touring.
Overall, it was fun seeing those five together again. But, I also knew that it meant that it become even less frequent between albums and tours, which has proven true.Well said Steve. I concur.
nodmod
02-19-2006, 08:48 AM
The Dance meant to me the return of Lindsey Buckingham from four years in what seemed to me (pre internet) the wilderness.
I never considered that Lindsey would re-join Fleetwood Mac after the break up in '87, and this tour enabled me to see Lindsey and that classic five live for the first time, fun times
PsychCat
02-22-2006, 09:21 PM
The Dance was a musical God-send, if you will. As I was entering a new chapter in life, it was so incredible to have my "old friends" meeting me.
My first concert ever was seeing them on the Rumours tour, 3rd row! Eyeing Mick's drumset convinced me that was what I wanted to play and I've been at it ever since. Seeing my childhood heroes in person back then and then reunited so many years later was a reunion beyond compare. Interesting how we had all gotten older but the true essence of the appreciation never left.
And the Trojans playing along on "Tusk" and "Don't Stop" was icing on the cake! I love me some drums.
amber
02-22-2006, 09:36 PM
Welcome, PsychCat. :wavey: You are flaming lucky to have been in the third row for that, I tell you what.
David
02-23-2006, 01:46 AM
I appreciate "The Dance" but I can't even find it!:mad: :mad:
amber
02-23-2006, 01:57 AM
I appreciate "The Dance" but I can't even find it!:mad: :mad:
What do you mean??? Literally, you can't find the DVD, CD, or video? Or you can't find the great Dance of life that we're all a part of? Or you can't find the Dance in The Mac?
David
02-23-2006, 02:02 AM
What do you mean??? Literally, you can't find the DVD, CD, or video? Or you can't find the great Dance of life that we're all a part of? Or you can't find the Dance in The Mac?No, no, I had a copy of it I think on CD, & I can't find it. I haven't seen it for quite a while ... like three years ...??
amber
02-23-2006, 02:08 AM
No, no, I had a copy of it I think on CD, & I can't find it. I haven't seen it for quite a while ... like three years ...??
Oh, the ol' "lost in your house". I have that quite a bit. I have the CD, but I sold the video.
You probably don't like the Dance that much anyway, do you? Or shall I just go back and see if you posted your opinion somewhere else in this thread? But you do appreciate it.
I like hamburgers, but I appreciate brussel sprouts, if you see my point.
WelshWitchPMD
02-23-2006, 02:13 AM
No, no, I had a copy of it I think on CD, & I can't find it. I haven't seen it for quite a while ... like three years ...??
I can't find my copy on CD either.:distress:
Brwn_eyes0511
02-23-2006, 02:36 AM
I can't find my copy on CD either.:distress:
ha! I lost mine as well a few months ago and ended up buying a new one. Come to think of it...my best friend lost her copy and had to get another one...hmmmmmm.
Where are all these "The Dance" cd's running off to? :confused:
amber
02-23-2006, 02:47 AM
ha! I lost mine as well a few months ago and ended up buying a new one. Come to think of it...my best friend lost her copy and had to get another one...hmmmmmm.
Where are all these "The Dance" cd's running off to? :confused:
It's a plot!!! They're slowly gathering, infused with the energy of the fans who lost them, to take over the world!!! Hurray! First they'll do a 10 month take over of the U.S., then the next leg of their takeover will be Europe, then Australia. Then we'll get a DVD of their takeover. It's their pattern. :cool:
We've cracked it, by jove!
Brwn_eyes0511
02-23-2006, 02:54 AM
It's a plot!!! They're slowly gathering, infused with the energy of the fans who lost them, to take over the world!!! Hurray! First they'll do a 10 month take over of the U.S., then the next leg of their takeover will be Europe, then Australia. It's their pattern. :cool:
We've cracked it, by jove!
Well its an album with Chris in the mix...so I'm ready to be brainwashed :blob2:
madformac
02-23-2006, 02:40 PM
With one fell swoop of The Dance they became a nostalgia act.
I still think it beats a lounge act, which is what they eventually became after LB left.
I first noticed The Dance as a CD in a UK record store. Bearing in mind we get no Mac coverage over here I picked it up and thought it was some odd compilation with a new airbrushed cover. I got it and took it home. Put it on and was really in amazement that it was a new live album with Buckingham. I was blown away by Big Love, Go Insane and especially I'm So Afraid which I think is the definitive version of that song. So I bought the video and then the DVD, which I think was the first music DVD ever released in the UK too. (note: I also got the CD Advance of the album, The Chain promo CD single, the Big Love single and the Brit Awards outstanding contribution to music CD with 3 Dance tracks)
That album got me reaquainted with the band culminating in bumping into a certain chiliD on a certain file sharing program that was popular around the turn of the Millennium. He directed me here and unfortunately for the rest of you I'm still around five years later. :)
Angel69
02-24-2006, 08:17 AM
Ah. So Stevie actually sucked you into the Mac vortex initially. Interesting. :cool:
BTW - I MUST add this, I almost forgot about it. When The Dance came out, I was working at a group home with profoundly developmentally disabled kids. When I say profound, I want to explain - they couldn't talk, walk, feed or dress themselves, etc. And even though we always called them "the kids", many were older than me (I was 22 at that time.) Most of them were small for their age, had facial/skeletal deformities and various medical problems.
So. Louis. I love that boy, he was my favorite. He had a very large head & cranial deformities, and curly blond hair. I used to call him my lion. Despite his different appearance, he was so regal and handsome. His spine was so twisted that his usual position was laying on a mat on the living room floor his left side, propped up on his left elbow, legs curled up behind him. If he could see, I couldn't tell - he never really focused on anything. But sounds really got him going - whether it be someone saying his name, yelling, something dropping & breaking on the floor, whatever. He loved noise, he would either yell "Whooooo!" & start pounding that one good left hand on the ground or start laughing hysterically. He especially loved when someone sneezed - cracked him right up! :laugh:
My friend Ryan (yup, that's right, gay boyfriend #1 :D ) worked with me there - actually, that's how we met. We both started really getting into The Dance & whenever it was on TV, we would put it on while we were at work. I noticed that Louis really, really got excited whenever The Chain started - I think it was the drum intro. I thought it was a fluke, but he never got that excited over any other music! Others started noticing it too. It seemed that he reacted most to Stevie's voice, guitar solos & heavy drums & bass.
The Chain, Dreams, Silver Springs, ISA, Tusk - these I can vividly remember him listening to - his eyes would open up wider, he would swing that big ol' head around & around & tap his hand on the floor, every once in a while letting out a "whooo!" Over the next few months, I bought him the VHS tape, the CD and the agency took him to the concert in November '97. He loved it. :)
So, maybe that's another reason I'm still in love with it. To get those "kids" to react to something, to be able to communicate with them SOMEHOW, since verbally & visually was not an option, was just an amazing thing. When is happened, it just blew me away. I haven't seen Lou in a few years, I really need to go & visit him again. I hope that they still play his CD for him once in a while. He has great taste in music. :angel:
Oh my God. This story is very moving to me as I work in a school for children with developmental disabilities and found myself in the same situation last year. Where I work the age range is from 8 years old until 21 when they graduate and get placed in a group home. The children here range from autisitic to multiple disabilities and conditions. Last year my class was very low functioning. One student Evan is 17, with severe autisim. Evan cannot speak but he loves music and wearing a walkman. The cd's we had for Evan were the usual childrens sing a longs. However one day I brought in The Dance and this boy was mesmerized completely. After a while I would ask him "Evan do you want your music" and he would bang the opening drum riff from The Chain on the table. I would also sing Silver Springs to him and he would tear up, it was astounding to me. Working there touches me right to the core. He also gravitated to Stevie's voice as I started to bring in more Mac. He also loves Stand Back. He goes balistic with that one.
Although my "son" happens to be Johnathan:) who was in my class last year and graduated last year. He cannot speak wears braces on his legs and was a terror. He was a little violent and would pull hair, and basically attack people. I remember my first day with him. It took a while but he was a completely different person with me and was always by my side. At first he would scratch me so much that my hands looked bizarre, like I was into self mutilation or something. I had to walk him down the aisle at the graduation and the whole place applauded. I still go visit John and sometimes it may be a month or two between visits but they never forget and the look of happiness on his face is priceless. So go see Lou and it will be like no time has passed. I feel so good after my visits with John and so does he.
DavidMn
02-24-2006, 12:42 PM
Oh my God. This story is very moving to me as I work in a school for children with developmental disabilities and found myself in the same situation last year. Where I work the age range is from 8 years old until 21 when they graduate and get placed in a group home. The children here range from autisitic to multiple disabilities and conditions. Last year my class was very low functioning. One student Evan is 17, with severe autisim. Evan cannot speak but he loves music and wearing a walkman. The cd's we had for Evan were the usual childrens sing a longs. However one day I brought in The Dance and this boy was mesmerized completely. After a while I would ask him "Evan do you want your music" and he would bang the opening drum riff from The Chain on the table. I would also sing Silver Springs to him and he would tear up, it was astounding to me. Working there touches me right to the core. He also gravitated to Stevie's voice as I started to bring in more Mac. He also loves Stand Back. He goes balistic with that one.
Although my "son" happens to be Johnathan:) who was in my class last year and graduated last year. He cannot speak wears braces on his legs and was a terror. He was a little violent and would pull hair, and basically attack people. I remember my first day with him. It took a while but he was a completely different person with me and was always by my side. At first he would scratch me so much that my hands looked bizarre, like I was into self mutilation or something. I had to walk him down the aisle at the graduation and the whole place applauded. I still go visit John and sometimes it may be a month or two between visits but they never forget and the look of happiness on his face is priceless. So go see Lou and it will be like no time has passed. I feel so good after my visits with John and so does he.Isnt it nice how music can do positive things lilke that?:angel:
BellaDonna1986
03-01-2006, 11:28 AM
The Dance means a lot to me. I got the DVD about a year ago and it was the first Fleetwood Mac DVD I ever bought, turning me from a sort of casual fan into a proper fan. :nod:
At first, I insisted on only playing the songs that I already knew, but soon realised that I knew a lot more than I thought I did! When I started playing more of the songs, Silver Springs in particular totally blew me away, and to this day, it still does, every single time. I wasn't aware of the significance of the song, or even that the Dance was a reunion tour, but after seeing the DVD, I wanted more.
The rest, as they say, is history...
Ghost_Tracker
03-01-2006, 08:50 PM
What does the DANCE mean to you?
I don't know but if this was sevenwondersonline I'd give you about half a billion Karma Points for posting that "shippy" picture of Mulder and Scully dancing!!! . . . Kudos to you.
From "Rain King," right??? Or was it "Post-Modern Prometheus?" :]
goldustsongbird
03-01-2006, 08:58 PM
I don't know but if this was sevenwondersonline I'd give you about half a billion Karma Points for posting that "shippy" picture of Mulder and Scully dancing!!! . . . Kudos to you.
From "Rain King," right??? Or was it "Post-Modern Prometheus?" :]
It's from PMP.
SteveMacD
03-01-2006, 09:13 PM
I still think it beats a lounge act, which is what they eventually became after LB left.
LOL. Now you're just playing with semantics. The bottom line is that Fleetwood Mac has been playing it painfully safe since the "Tango" tour, regardless of who's in the band. The only difference is that with Ian & Sylvia back in the fold, we KNOW we're never going to get something that even appears somewhat different. And, adding two never played songs from "Tusk," while being a good start, is akin to putting a band-aid on a freshly amputated arm.
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