Adding Lindsey and Stevie

[SteveMacD]

The more I think about it, the more curious this decision was. Looking at all of the guitarists the band went through between 1967 through 1974, it would seem to me that Waddy Wachtel was the more obvious choice to replace Bob Welch. He used a pick, he played Les Pauls, he played slide guitar, he was more bluesy rock meets pop, he enjoys heavy touring, and he would have been joining the band alone. (And, he's geeky-but-cool, in a way not too dissimilar from Bob Welch.)

When Lindsey joined, Mick and John tried to get him to use a pick and basically made him switch to Gibson. They had to go through that whole "Stevie can only join if Christine approves" thing, which admittedly wasn't much, but still. And, Lindsey's own style was a bit unusual as far as Mac guitarists are concerned. Lindsey's main focus has always been the finger style. The solos were always secondary. He didn't play slide. In fact, I think Welch was the only other guitarist up to that point who didn't play slide, though "Heroes" was the only album affected by that, and even then it featured a cameo by Sneaky Pete Kleinlow.

Of course, in the long run, adding Stevie and Lindsey, and having that slight paradigm shift (as I've said, I don't their sound was all that significantly different from some of the lighter pre-1975 Mac stuff), ultimately was the greatest thing to ever happen to the band, at least from a commercial standpoint.

It just seems to me that it would have been a much easier, and more obvious, transition with Waddy than Stevie and Lindsey.

[Sahara]

The more I think about it, the more curious this decision was. Looking at all of the guitarists the band went through between 1967 through 1974, it would seem to me that Waddy Wachtel was the more obvious choice to replace Bob Welch. He used a pick, he played Les Pauls, he played slide guitar, he was more bluesy rock meets pop, he enjoys heavy touring, and he would have been joining the band alone. (And, he's geeky-but-cool, in a way not too dissimilar from Bob Welch.)

When Lindsey joined, Mick and John tried to get him to use a pick and basically made him switch to Gibson. They had to go through that whole "Stevie can only join if Christine approves" thing, which admittedly wasn't much, but still. And, Lindsey's own style was a bit unusual as far as Mac guitarists are concerned. Lindsey's main focus has always been the finger style. The solos were always secondary. He didn't play slide. In fact, I think Welch was the only other guitarist up to that point who didn't play slide, though "Heroes" was the only album affected by that, and even then it featured a cameo by Sneaky Pete Kleinlow.

Of course, in the long run, adding Stevie and Lindsey, and having that slight paradigm shift (as I've said, I don't their sound was all that significantly different from some of the lighter pre-1975 Mac stuff), ultimately was the greatest thing to ever happen to the band, at least from a commercial standpoint.

It just seems to me that it would have been a much easier, and more obvious, transition with Waddy than Stevie and Lindsey.

I didn't know Waddy was connected with the band at that point, I only knew Waddy as Stevie's guitarist on her solo outings.

Interesting point though ... hmm.

[SortaSavageLike]

The more I think about it, the more curious this decision was. Looking at all of the guitarists the band went through between 1967 through 1974, it would seem to me that Waddy Wachtel was the more obvious choice to replace Bob Welch. He used a pick, he played Les Pauls, he played slide guitar, he was more bluesy rock meets pop, he enjoys heavy touring, and he would have been joining the band alone. (And, he's geeky-but-cool, in a way not too dissimilar from Bob Welch.)


From what I've heard, he's a lousy vocalist. His take on Stop Dragging My Heart Around has been described as a "violation". Maybe we're lucky they didn't take him. :eek:

[Richard B]

The more I think about it, the more curious this decision was.
Waddy has a **** singing voice. Not sure he is a solid writer either.

[Jyqm]

It just seems to me that it would have been a much easier, and more obvious, transition with Waddy than Stevie and Lindsey.

Waddy's a great guitarist, but as others have mentioned he's not much of a singer. And is he much of a songwriter?

Regardless, I think part of the reason Mick wanted Lindsey in the first place is because his style was rather different than Welch's. Not to slight Bob, but the band simply didn't have as much success as they might have liked while he was on-board. So perhaps Mick was looking for someone who would help the band shift gears somewhat sound-wise. Once Mick heard "Frozen Love," I imagine all it took was the studio employee saying, "Oh yeah, this guy's a singer and songwriter, too," and Mick was sold.

[Sahara]

From what I've heard, he's a lousy vocalist. His take on Stop Dragging My Heart Around has been described as a "violation".

Are you joking?! It was CLASS!! I loved it! Very different but much more interesting than the album version. Give me Waddy any day. :o JMO.

"Geeky but cool"? Waddy's cool to the bone. ANY man with hair like that has GOT to be cool. :D

[HomerMcvie]

Well, he and Bob both had that funky hair/Coke bottle glasses thing going on. Bob looked SO much better when he lost the Coke bottles!

[gldstwmn]

I didn't know that Waddy was ever considered for FM. I don't think he was.
Isn't someone playing slide on Over And Over or are my ears deceiving me?
As far as a front man goes, I lurve Waddy and he is a great player but I mean, look at Lindsey. And Stevie, for that matter. They couldn't have had too many doubts about her appeal.
Didn't Mick also say that Lindsey's playing reminded him of Peter Green?

[HomerMcvie]

Didn't Mick also say that Lindsey's playing reminded him of Peter Green?
Here comes Chili, with a baseball bat.....:p

[gldstwmn]

Here comes Chili, with a baseball bat.....:p

Hey, Mick said it, not me. :lol:

[johndoe]

Waddy can write. He worked with Warren Zevon a few songs and wrote the entire first verse of werewolves of London.

"I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
He was looking for a place called Lee Ho Fook's
Going to get himself a big dish of beef chow mein
Werewolves of London"

Thats him.

[Richard B]

Waddy can write.
I did look him up. He did indeed co-write that song. Upon further research he does have some additional writing credits, mostly co-writer credits and nothing that matched quite the success of 'Werewolves of London.'

But a long history he does have. I pulled the following bio off of allmusic.com, and you can search him there for more info and all compositions and credits.


Biography by William Ruhlmann
"People would hire me," Waddy Wachtel told Musician magazine in February 1999, "because they needed that rock & roll element." At that point, Wachtel's clean, direct, rock guitar-playing had been 'putting an edge,' as he as he phrased it, into the sound of soft-rock Los Angeles singer-songwriters for nearly a quarter of a century, and he had even gotten to record with such legends as Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones.

Wachtel was born Robert Wachtel and raised in the Jackson Heights section of the borough of Queens in New York City. His unusual nickname was adopted at a young age. His first break in the music business came in the early '70s, when Warren Zevon, musical director for the Everly Brothers, hired him as a guitarist in the duo's backing band. He played guitar on the Everlys' 1972 album Stories We Could Tell, his first major credit. His next one came three years later with Kenny Rankin's Inside. But 1976 was his breakthrough year, as he appeared in quick succession on four chart albums: Maria Muldaur's Sweet Harmony; John David Souther's Black Rose; James Taylor's In the Pocket; and Zevon's Warren Zevon. Also appearing as an onstage backup musician, Wachtel cut a distinctive figure, a thin, left-handed electric guitarist with a head full of long blond corkscrew curls, wearing wire-frame glasses. In 1977, his credits included Linda Ronstadt's chart-topping Simple Dreams and Randy Newman's acclaimed Little Criminals. In 1978, he played guitar on another Ronstadt number one, Living in the USA, as well as Grateful Dead member Bob Weir's solo project, Heaven Help the Fool, and he earned a production credit on Bryan Ferry's The Bride Stripped Bare. But his most notable work released that year was on Zevon's Excitable Boy, which he helped produce and for which he co-wrote the Top 40 hit "Werewolves of London." Continuing to work with the cream of Southern California performers and other singer-songwriters in 1979, he appeared on Taylor's Flag, Newman's Born Again, Souther's You're Only Lonely, and Bonnie Raitt's The Glow.

In 1980, in a bid to get beyond being a sideman, Wachtel formed the group Ronin with Dan Dugmore, Rick Marotta, Don Grolnick, and Stanley Sheldon, and he wrote songs, sang, and played guitar on the band's self-titled debut album, released on Mercury Records. It flopped, but Wachtel had not given up his day job, and that year he also appeared on Zevon's Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School and Ronstadt's Mad Love. In 1981, he again participated creatively on a hit, co-writing "Her Town Too" with Taylor and Souther for Taylor's album, Dad Loves His Work; the single reached the Top Ten. The same year, Wachtel appeared on Kim Carnes' number one album Mistaken Identity and forged a long-term commitment with Stevie Nicks, playing on her debut solo album, Bella Donna, another number one hit, and joining her touring band. Nineteen eighty-two found him playing on such albums as Karla Bonoff's Wild Heart of the Young, the Motels' All Four One, Don Henley's solo debut I Can't Stand Still, and Ronstadt's Get Closer. His work with Nicks in the mid-'80s took up much of his time, but in addition to touring with her and appearing on 1983's Wild Heart and 1985's Rock a Little, he managed a few other sessions each year, notably Joe Walsh's You Bought It - You Name It and the Motels' Little Robbers in 1983, Steve Perry's Street Talk (his lead guitar work on the Top Ten hit "Oh Sherrie" was particularly characteristic of his playing) and Henley's Building the Perfect Beast in 1984, Walsh's The Confessor and Rosanne Cash's Rhythm & Romance in 1985, Jackson Browne's Lives in the Balance and Graham Nash's Innocent Eyes in 1986, and Zevon's Sentimental Hygiene, Cher's self-titled comeback album, and Dolly Parton's Rainbow in 1987.

With Nicks off touring with Fleetwood Mac, Wachtel was able to expand his outside work in 1988. Among other projects, he produced the Church's gold-selling Starfish album and developed an important new relationship by working on Keith Richards' debut solo album Talk Is Cheap. (He also appeared onstage with Richards and can be heard on the belated release of Live at the Hollywood Palladium, recorded in 1988 but not released until 1991.) In 1989, he played guitar on albums by several familiar names, including Nicks' The Other Side of the Mirror, Henley's The End of the Innocence, Cher's Heart of Stone, and Zevon's Transverse City. But 1990 brought a raft of new clients. In addition to producing the Church's Gold Afternoon Fix, Wachtel played on Iggy Pop's Brick by Brick, Bob Dylan's Under the Red Sky, and Hall and Oates' Change of Season. Nineteen ninety-one brought a mix of old friends like Walsh (Ordinary Average Guy) and Zevon (Mr. Bad Example) and new ones like Bob Seger (The Fire Inside) and Rod Stewart (Vagabond Heart).

As the '90s went on, Wachtel worked steadily in the studio, and among his many credits over the next few years, the following represent only a sampling: in 1992, Tracy Chapman's Matters of the Heart, Richards' Main Offender, Ringo Starr's Time Takes Time, and Tom Waits' Bone Machine; in 1993, Browne's I'm Alive, Melissa Etheridge's Yes I Am, Bruce Hornsby's Harbor Lights, and Nicks' Street Angel; in 1995, Aaron Neville's Tattooed Heart, Newman's Faust, John Prine's Lost Dogs and Mixed Blessings, and Brian Wilson's I Just Wasn't Made for These Times; and in 1996, Browne's Looking East and Neil Diamond's In My Lifetime. Another notable credit in 1996 was Wachtel's participation on comedian Adam Sandler's What the Hell Happened to Me?, for which he served as arranger and musical director. He also went on the road as Sandler's musical director and eventually began to work on Sandler's films, notably The Waterboy (1998), for which he co-wrote the song "New Year's Eve" with Walsh.

Wachtel reached something of a peak as a session musician in 1997 by playing on the Rolling Stones' Bridges to Babylon, the same year appearing on Sandler's What's Your Name, George Thorogood's Rockin' My Life Away, the Bee Gees' Still Waters, and the self-titled album by the Wilsons. Among his 1998 credits were Johnny Rivers' Last Train to Memphis and Ronstadt's We Ran (which featured his song "I Go to Pieces"). In 1999, in addition to appearing on Michael Hutchence's posthumously released solo album, Wachtel concentrated on working with up-and-coming artists such as Janice Robinson, playing on her first album, The Color Within Me. He also found time to cut some solo tracks of his own for distribution on mp3. com, which has made available half-a-dozen of them under the title WW1 Unfinished Business.

[SteveMacD]

I didn't know that Waddy was ever considered for FM. I don't think he was.
I don't think Waddy was, but that's what I find so odd. It's not like he wasn't right there, LITERALLY!
Isn't someone playing slide on Over And Over or are my ears deceiving me?
I think he's tinkered with the slide (also on "Gold Dust Woman"), but he definately does not have the chops to do something like "Shake Your Moneymaker," "Show Biz Blues," "Believe Me," "Stand Back," or even "I Got It In For You." There's USING a slide, and then there's PLAYING slide!
Didn't Mick also say that Lindsey's playing reminded him of Peter Green?
The quote I heard from Mick is that Lindsey's playing reminded him of Danny Kirwan. The quote I heard from Stevie is that Mick heard the solo on "Frozen Love" and thought something like "My God, it's Peter Green."

[gldstwmn]

I think he's tinkered with the slide (also on "Gold Dust Woman"),

There's so much going on in that song it's hard for me to tell. I always thought I heard a sitar there too and there is a picture of Lindsey playing one during the Rumours sessions. But yes, I would definitely call what I hear in Over And Over tinkering if in fact he is playing slide there at all. He could just be making his guitar sound as if.


The quote I heard from Mick is that Lindsey's playing reminded him of Danny Kirwan. The quote I heard from Stevie is that Mick heard the solo on "Frozen Love" and thought something like "My God, it's Peter Green."

That's probably what I was remembering.

[Jyqm]

Waddy can write. He worked with Warren Zevon a few songs and wrote the entire first verse of werewolves of London.

There's a bit of a difference between having a few co-writing credits to your name and being a songwriter, don't you think?

[DavidMn]

Waddy has a **** singing voice. Not sure he is a solid writer either.I've always heard that he's the falsetto voice on Jackson Browne's version of Stay. Is that true?

[chiliD]

I've always heard that he's the falsetto voice on Jackson Browne's version of Stay. Is that true?

No. That was David Lindley.

[DavidMn]

No. That was David Lindley.But he lead guitar on some of Linda Ronstadt's stuff right? Like It's SO Easy

[chiliD]

But he lead guitar on some of Linda Ronstadt's stuff right? Like It's SO Easy

Yeah, Waddy was in Linda Ronstadt's band for a few years before Linda went "Gilbert & Sullivan"; and, Waddy ended up with Stevie's band. (as did bassist Bob Glaub & drummer Russ Kunkel...who LATER became the rhythm section for Jackson Browne's band...along with Craig Doerge on keyboards & Rick Vito on lead guitar)

[shackin'up]

Yeah, Waddy (..) bassist Bob Glaub & drummer Russ Kunkel...who LATER became the rhythm section for Jackson Browne's band...)

didn't these guys play with Jackson Browne back in the NO NUKES-days too, before stevie's band?

[johndoe]

There's a bit of a difference between having a few co-writing credits to your name and being a songwriter, don't you think?

Well, thats true. But I think that if he was needed to write songs, he would be able to do at least SOMETHING. And even if he doesn't write, whats stopping the band from getting a rhythm guitarist who can sing (in the same vein as the Vito/Burnette pairing)? Or Just getting a lead singer who doesn't play intruments, like Stevie. Just. Not stevie.

[chiliD]

didn't these guys play with Jackson Browne back in the NO NUKES-days too, before stevie's band?

Well, yeah...they did separate tenure's with Jackson. First around The Pretender & Running On Empty...then again from Lawyer's In Love onwards.

[Jyqm]

Well, thats true. But I think that if he was needed to write songs, he would be able to do at least SOMETHING.

Well sure, but so could a lot of people. The band needed a new songwriter to help turn around their fortunes, though, not just someone who could probably toss off a few half-decent tunes if you really pushed him to.

And even if he doesn't write, whats stopping the band from getting a rhythm guitarist who can sing (in the same vein as the Vito/Burnette pairing)? Or Just getting a lead singer who doesn't play intruments, like Stevie. Just. Not stevie.

Well, at the time, they were in the market for one person who could play guitar, write songs and sing, having just lost someone who did all three. They weren't out looking for three different people to fill those roles. Of course, we all know they ended up getting two, but that wasn't the original gameplan.

[SteveMacD]

They weren't out looking for three different people to fill those roles. Of course, we all know they ended up getting two, but that wasn't the original gameplan.
You say that as if they really HAD a gameplan. Fleetwood Mac had been coasting though their career ever since Peter Green quit. It wasn't until they actually started working with Stevie and Lindsey that they seemingly began to take things a little seriously. I'd be willing to bet that their plan the day before they met Stevie and Lindsey was to record an album in no more than a month, tour, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Jyqm]

You say that as if they really HAD a gameplan. Fleetwood Mac had been coasting though their career ever since Peter Green quit. It wasn't until they actually started working with Stevie and Lindsey that they seemingly began to take things a little seriously. I'd be willing to bet that their plan the day before they met Stevie and Lindsey was to record an album in no more than a month, tour, and let the chips fall where they may.

Well, that much is pure speculation. But we do have plenty of evidence that they were in the market for a single guitarist/singer/songwriter. Whether or not they were coasting, we know what they were looking for at that point.

[cliffdweller]

I mean, look at Lindsey. And Stevie, for that matter. They couldn't have had too many doubts about her appeal.

:nod: Yup, you got it: Stevie and Lindsey had the package: star power, looks, talent, commercial appeal. Waddy has great guitar playing and that's about where it stops.

[SteveMacD]

:nod: Yup, you got it: Stevie and Lindsey had the package: star power, looks, talent, commercial appeal.
If "star power," "looks," and "commercial appeal" were important to the band's decision in adding personnel, Bob Welch would never have gotten through the front door of Benifolds! They all but begged him to stay just a few weeks prior to hooking up with Stevie and Lindsey. So, how important were THOSE factors to them at the time? I believe it was in Keith Olsen's Q&A where he said something which basically suggested John had serious doubts about the band's credibility when they were recording "Rhiannon." It wasn't obvious to them at the time. Their top priority at that moment was survival. Lindsey and Stevie were broke, which means they came relatively cheaply, which is exactly what the band was looking for! Which is not to say those didn't BECOME factors over time. But, in Jan. 1975, I'm pretty sure Lindsey could have been ugly and still would have gotten the job.

To be sure, Lindsey got the job because Mick heard a certain quality that reminded him of the Green-Kirwan days, and the band needed a new guitarist ASAP. Mick just went with the first guy he could think of. Stevie got the job because she was Lindsey's significant other.
Waddy has great guitar playing and that's about where it stops.
Not really. He's an idea man (like "hey Warren, I think we need to get Mick Fleetwood and John McVie to play on 'Warwolves Of London'). I'm sure there's a lot more to Waddy's talents than what we see.

[chiliD]

But, in Jan. 1975, I'm pretty sure Lindsey could have been ugly and still would have gotten the job.

To be sure, Lindsey got the job because Mick heard a certain quality that reminded him of the Green-Kirwan days, and the band needed a new guitarist ASAP.


Since Mick was "sold" on Lindsey before he ever met him, just by hearing his guitar work on "Frozen Love", looks weren't even a consideration. It was the Lennon/Ono's concept of "Bagism" at work in its natural form.

[SteveMacD]

Well, that much is pure speculation. But we do have plenty of evidence that they were in the market for a single guitarist/singer/songwriter. Whether or not they were coasting, we know what they were looking for at that point.
Again, I'm not really sure of the "single guitarist" thing is really all that true. I mean, we also have plenty of evidence that they were going to get at least another guitarist even if Bob had stayed. The main reason they didn't simply replace Weston and made "Heroes" as a quartet was due mostly to timing. They HAD to make "Heroes" when they did and release it when they did, or they could have risked losing the band altogether. "Heroes" was essentially a chess move. So, when Bob left, they knew they needed at least one guitarist. So, Mick calls the only other potentially available guitarist he knows of who kind of sounds a little like Peter Green or Danny Kirwan. I don't think there was a game plan, at least at that point.

[chiliD]

The "what if Bob DIDN'T leave and they STILL added Stevie & Lindsey" is one of my favorite "what ifs" about Fleetwood Mac.

[cliffdweller]

If "star power," "looks," and "commercial appeal" were important to the band's decision in adding personnel, Bob Welch would never have gotten through the front door of Benifolds!


:laugh: Ahhh, that made me laugh quite a little bit. But seriously, I think by the time Lindsey and Stevie joined, Mick and Co. were interested in busting through the American market which means they would have to adopt some kind of commercial appeal if they were going to reach a mass audience. What you say still holds, bit I think it was more like Mick thought he wanted Lindsey before laying eyes on him but the deal wasn't cinched yet. I think after Mick met Linds and Stevie, aside from the cheap factor, he saw that their appearance would certainly help the band become popular...I mean, those two were striking. Mick knew that two attractive front people (especially Stevie) would be one of the ways to amass a larger, and more diverse (because they brought in the American, SoCal sound too) crowd of fans. I mean, even Jimmy Page admitted that when they signed on Robert Plant as singer they knew that they could use his good looks to their advantage in helping to bring in the throngs (and this was in the early days before people knew how badass Led Zep was).