A Million Little Pieces

[gldstwmn]

I just picked up the book tonight. Has anyone else read it?

[MacMan]

No, But I want to read it. The Author is going to be on Larry King Live tonight... Apparently the Smoking Gun website is claiming a lot of what is written is lies, or really over embelished. And the author and his lawyers tried to stop the site from posting such info. They claim to have checked out a few things that he said or wrote about where there would be court records, police records etc. and they don't add up. Doesn't matter, I still want to read it.

[jannieC]

I tried to last year when my husband first went into rehab. Someone gave it to me, but it was hitting too close to home, so I couldn't read it. I've heard it's good though.

[sara1998]

I just picked up the book tonight. Has anyone else read it?
I'll bet there's a lot of people who did that. What great publicity! I would like to read it also.

[dissention]

No, But I want to read it. The Author is going to be on Larry King Live tonight... Apparently the Smoking Gun website is claiming a lot of what is written is lies, or really over embelished. And the author and his lawyers tried to stop the site from posting such info. They claim to have checked out a few things that he said or wrote about where there would be court records, police records etc. and they don't add up. Doesn't matter, I still want to read it.

He sounds like a regular Augusten Burroughs.

I read it and enjoyed it quite a bit, so now I'm off to the Smoking Gun website...

[The Tower]

There was a whole big deal on Air America tonight on this book. Apparantly, the guy lifted his entire story from other AA/NA members at meetings. Supposedly, he had his court records purged so that no one follow up on it (I find that one kind of unbelivable). So, when whoever was investigating this pulled all the police reports, they either were contradictory to the passages in his book, or the passages in his book didn't exist at all.

Apparantly, he has hired a big gun Hollywood lawyer to defend/protect him from all the stuff that's going on- the same lawyer that defended/protected Eddie Murphy when he was screwing around with all those Trannies.

:shrug:

[gldstwmn]

It was pretty interesting when Oprah called in there at the end of Larry King. Frey was looking at Larry with what looked to be hatred in his eyes. I don't know about this guy.

[dissention]

It was pretty interesting when Oprah called in there at the end of Larry King. Frey was looking at Larry with what looked to be hatred in his eyes. I don't know about this guy.

What happened on Larry? I can't wait for the transcript. :laugh:

BTW, here's the Smoking Gun stuff. VERY interesting...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0104061jamesfrey1.html

[gldstwmn]

There was a whole big deal on Air America tonight on this book. Apparantly, the guy lifted his entire story from other AA/NA members at meetings.

That is just wrong. :distress:

[MacMan]

There was a whole big deal on Air America tonight on this book. Apparantly, the guy lifted his entire story from other AA/NA members at meetings.

Except that James Frey never went to AA/NA. He didn't believe in those programs (for himself) and what they were preaching/teaching, so he rejected them and went at it his own way.

He looks like he's had a rough time of it with all the bad press... But like he said, it's kind of the price you pay for having #2 in sales for 05. But I give him credit for remaining calm, I know I probably couldn't have, and he has to stand up for his product if he wants to continue to sell books now and in the future.

[dissention]

Except that James Frey never went to AA/NA. He didn't believe in those programs (for himself) and what they were preaching/teaching, so he rejected them and went at it his own way.

He looks like he's had a rough time of it with all the bad press... But like he said, it's kind of the price you pay for having #2 in sales for 05. But I give him credit for remaining calm, I know I probably couldn't have, and he has to stand up for his product if he wants to continue to sell books now and in the future.

I'm reading all of the stuff on Smoking Gun right now and this guy seems like a real whack-job. If he really lied about the train accident like that, he's scum.

[The Tower]

Except that James Frey never went to AA/NA. He didn't believe in those programs (for himself) and what they were preaching/teaching, so he rejected them and went at it his own way.
I can't remember whether or not they said he actually went to meetings. Randi Rhodes was on leave tonight and the one of the two dudes who replaced said that a large portion of the book was based on the life of his good friend who died from complications from drug use, etc. I believe they said he interviewed various AA/NA members a stitched together a lot of things to make a composite.

I haven't read the book and I hadnt heard anything about this dude until the Air America show tonight on the way home from work.

(Again) :shrug:

[The Tower]

I'm reading all of the stuff on Smoking Gun right now and this guy seems like a real whack-job. If he really lied about the train accident like that, he's scum.
Didn't they interview one of the women who was in that train wreck and she stated that he wasn't on the train??? Something like that.

[gldstwmn]

Except that James Frey never went to AA/NA. He didn't believe in those programs (for himself) and what they were preaching/teaching, so he rejected them and went at it his own way.



If he went to the Hazelden clinic in Minnesota he would have attended meetings daily, if not several times a day as part of his program there. He must at least know enough about NA/AA to say that he disagrees with it.

[Lala]

I'm in the middle of it. I borrowed it from my friend who's studying to be an Addiction's Councellor. It's pretty reveting; it's kept me up late the past few nights because it's so hard to put down. I'd be pretty disapointed if it was proven to be lies, but as far as I can see this is rumour right now. If I was true, I'm not sure why he wouldn't market the book as a story about someone else.

[DavidMn]

Quite a bit of this story t ook place in MInnesota btw.

[dissention]

Quite a bit of this story t ook place in MInnesota btw.

That's exactly what it is, a story.

I can't watch another minute of this Larry King puff piece. It's infuriating me and I feel so duped for having bought into the **** he wrote about. Being made a fool out of isn't exactly pleasing to the intellect. Thank the stars that I caught the rerun or else I would have called in in the hopes of telling him where to shove his book. What a lying sack of feces.

[dissention]

I'm in the middle of it. I borrowed it from my friend who's studying to be an Addiction's Councellor. It's pretty reveting; it's kept me up late the past few nights because it's so hard to put down. I'd be pretty disapointed if it was proven to be lies, but as far as I can see this is rumour right now. If I was true, I'm not sure why he wouldn't market the book as a story about someone else.

Rumours, my ass. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jamesfrey/0104061jamesfrey1.html

[DavidMn]

That's exactly what it is, a story.

I can't watch another minute of this Larry King puff piece. It's infuriating me and I feel so duped for having bought into the **** he wrote about. Being made a fool out of isn't exactly pleasing to the intellect. Thank the stars that I caught the rerun or else I would have called in in the hopes of telling him where to shove his book. What a lying sack of feces.so to sum up you opinion would it go something like "UH DUDE, YOURE BUSTED?"
:laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

so to sum up you opinion would it go something like "UH DUDE, YOURE BUSTED?"
:laugh: :laugh:

He's a fukcer. The ultimate was when he told King that he's been tempted this past week to go back to drugs. I literally screamed at my television set and woke up everyone in my apartment from all my bitching about that rat bastard. What a weasel. Pray that CNN reruns it this weekend so that everyone interested can see it because this guy is a real piece of work. A memoir is an autobiography, **** For Brains, not "creative nonfiction."

AND he trotted out his poor mother on the show to play the sympathy card.

[Josh2003]

This guy went to Denison University, where I currently go, and it's interesting to see all these news reports regarding the infamous (to us) GPD (Granville Police Department). I even saw one of the favorite bars in town on Anderson Cooper tonight!

[dissention]

This guy went to Denison University, where I currently go, and it's interesting to see all these news reports regarding the infamous (to us) GPD (Granville Police Department). I even saw one of the favorite bars in town on Anderson Cooper tonight!

I was not digging the white shirt tonight, man.

[estranged4life]

I should write a book about the **** that I did in my younger violent ( And yes...Felonious) days, Maybe God-Phra will kiss my ass as she gives me a reach-around and make me tons of $$$ with her wit-less book club zombie/cult-like followers/members...

But then again, I am ashamed of the **** I lived thru and dont want to share it with the public no matter how much $$$ it could possibly make me.

[Josh2003]

I was not digging the white shirt tonight, man.

I, dare I say it, didn't really pay much attention to the shirt tonight! :distress: I was actually only half-paying attention, catching up on livejournal business after a day of no internet.

[hayley]

It was pretty interesting when Oprah called in there at the end of Larry King. Frey was looking at Larry with what looked to be hatred in his eyes. I don't know about this guy.
WATCH OUT FOR THE FURY!!@!

I liked the book well enough, but so much of it rang false for me in the initial read that I wasn't surprised by this news. I work part-time in a bookstore, and when the initial James Frey fever hit, we were selling out of every shipment we had of the book- we're talking hundreds of copies a night. It was insane. I'm waiting to see if people start bringing their books in for refunds, as apparently Random House has advised them to do ?

[gldstwmn]

He's a fukcer. The ultimate was when he told King that he's been tempted this past week to go back to drugs. I literally screamed at my television set and woke up everyone in my apartment from all my bitching about that rat bastard. What a weasel. Pray that CNN reruns it this weekend so that everyone interested can see it because this guy is a real piece of work. A memoir is an autobiography, **** For Brains, not "creative nonfiction."

AND he trotted out his poor mother on the show to play the sympathy card.

He's an addict, babe. His behavior is classic. I'm 130 pages into the book and I must say, it is very, very good. He's talented. But from what I saw of him on Larry King Live last night, I don't see a whole lot of the joy and healing that comes with recovery. I wonder if he's a dry drunk.

[sara1998]

I wonder if he's a dry drunk.
What's that?

[gldstwmn]

I was not digging the white shirt tonight, man.

But you have to admit, the little post Oprah segue was awesome. He broke into a really big smile.

[SuzeQuze]

He's an addict, babe. His behavior is classic. I'm 130 pages into the book and I must say, it is very, very good. He's talented. But from what I saw of him on Larry King Live last night, I don't see a whole lot of the joy and healing that comes with recovery. I wonder if he's a dry drunk.

I was thinking this exact thing, lying is part of the disease. I haven't read the book but I did see that Oprah episode. The follow-up episode should be interesting - she must be livid.

[gldstwmn]

WATCH OUT FOR THE FURY!!@!

I thought of that later. :lol: Another one that cracks me up is John Everett, Sexual Ninja, San Francisco and the World. :lol:
Random House issued a statement last night through Larry King saying that the refund offer was just a hoax. So I hope you don't have to put up with people trying to return the books. I suspect that it will only make the book sell faster. I didn't even know about this book until a few days ago when I heard about the controversy. If I had read it thinking it was a true story, I'd be kind of pissed though. I know people, hell, I'm sure we all do, who lived things very similar to what Frey did in the book. In a way, by being disingenuous the way he has, I almost feel he is doing a disservice to their stories.

[gldstwmn]

What's that?

Dry drunk is when people actually get sober but the habits they formed when drunk are still with them. So even though they're sober, they're still trapped in the rut of bad behavioral patterns that afflicted them when drunk.

[gldstwmn]

I was thinking this exact thing, lying is part of the disease. I haven't read the book but I did see that Oprah episode. The follow-up episode should be interesting - she must be livid.

She's not. She called in to Larry King last night and said she stands behind him.

[SuzeQuze]

She's not. She called in to Larry King last night and said she stands behind him.

Hmm. What does she mean by that? That she's okay with his lying or she does not believe he lied?

Dry drunk is when people actually get sober but the habits they formed when drunk are still with them. So even though they're sober, they're still trapped in the rut of bad behavioral patterns that afflicted them when drunk.

Another part of the meaning of this is that dry drunks are not in a treatment program like AA which will help keep them sober while also fostering good relationships and character. Some call the president a dry drunk.

[Jyqm]

Hmm. What does she mean by that? That she's okay with his lying or she does not believe he lied?

She means that she chose the book for her book club because she thought it was a good book with a good message that people would enjoy reading and get a lot out of. Whether or not the events described in the book actually happened has no effect on any of that.

You people who are all outraged at this guy and calling him scum because you somehow feel cheated or duped because the book isn't entirely true are just ridiculous. What the hell difference does it possibly make to you?

[dissention]

You people who are all outraged at this guy and calling him scum because you somehow feel cheated or duped because the book isn't entirely true are just ridiculous. What the hell difference does it possibly make to you?

I take it you've never read Jerzy Kosinski's book, pal. When I read nonfiction, I expect it to be truthful, especially when the prick who wrote it is going around town telling everyone who will listen that it's all a completely true account of his life and something that he wrote in attempt to be honest with himself over his past transgressions. Call me silly, but I think it's pretty disgusting and scummy when someone invents a role for themself in an accident that claimed the lives of two people. Just as it's equally scummy to write a book detailing all of the horrible things that your involvement with drugs were partly responsible for when half of those things were fictionalized in your head. So, what difference does it make to me? A helluva lot. Not to mention the fact that it makes me sick to see him enjoying all the riches and accolades that this book brought him when he lied to everyone so blatantly. Without his truth banner attached to it, it wouldn't have sold or become as popular as it has.

[dissention]

She means that she chose the book for her book club because she thought it was a good book with a good message that people would enjoy reading and get a lot out of. Whether or not the events described in the book actually happened has no effect on any of that.


What a crock of ****. She chose it mostly because it was a "true story," so that people could look at this Frey character and say to themselves 'Look at all the incredible stuff he's been through and he's still here.'

[Jyqm]

I take it you've never read Jerzy Kosinski's book, pal. When I read nonfiction, I expect it to be truthful, especially when the prick who wrote it is going around town telling everyone who will listen that it's all a completely true account of his life and something that he wrote in attempt to be honest with himself over his past transgressions. Call me silly, but I think it's pretty disgusting and scummy when someone invents a role for themself in an accident that claimed the lives of two people. Just as it's equally scummy to write a book detailing all of the horrible things that your involvement with drugs were partly responsible for when half of those things were fictionalized in your head.

How is this scummy?

So, what difference does it make to me? A helluva lot.

Sorry, I know that question can be read two different ways. I didn't mean, "How much of a difference does it make to you?" I meant, "What difference does it make to you?"

Not to mention the fact that it makes me sick to see him enjoying all the riches and accolades that this book brought him when he lied to everyone so blatantly.

I'm enjoying the fact that the "scandal" is bringing him twice the riches and accolades he had even a week ago.

Without his truth banner attached to it, it wouldn't have sold or become as popular as it has.

No, it certainly would not have. Which again begs the question: What's the difference?

I say good for him for exploiting an America that doesn't give a **** about fiction anymore but creams all over every two-bit inspirational memoir it can get its hands on. And good for Oprah and Doubleday for recognizing that a good book is a good book (according to them, anyway, I haven't read it).

[Jyqm]

What a crock of ****. She chose it mostly because it was a "true story," so that people could look at this Frey character and say to themselves 'Look at all the incredible stuff he's been through and he's still here.'

How is this purpose and effect any different whether the book in question is a meoir or a novel? Are people these days so entrenched in their own realities and so far removed from the possibilities and promises of literature that they need to be told that the main character of a book is a real person in order to get anything out of it?

[SuzeQuze]

She means that she chose the book for her book club because she thought it was a good book with a good message that people would enjoy reading and get a lot out of. Whether or not the events described in the book actually happened has no effect on any of that.

You people who are all outraged at this guy and calling him scum because you somehow feel cheated or duped because the book isn't entirely true are just ridiculous. What the hell difference does it possibly make to you?

I guess our period of peace is over. Telling people they're rediculous for an opinion just stirs the pot.

[dissention]

How is this scummy?

That's up to you, babe. Your sense of morality must be different from mine and vice versa.

I'm enjoying the fact that the "scandal" is bringing him twice the riches and accolades he had even a week ago.

He had better enjoy it while it lasts because I predict his next book will sink as quickly as Jayson Blair's and Stephen Glass'.

No, it certainly would not have. Which again begs the question: What's the difference?

The difference is that he lied to the book-buying public to sell his book. It's a work of fiction and should have been treated as such.

I say good for him for exploiting an America that doesn't give a **** about fiction anymore but creams all over every two-bit inspirational memoir it can get its hands on. And good for Oprah and Doubleday for recognizing that a good book is a good book (according to them, anyway, I haven't read it).

The book is fabulously entertaining, but he can't write for ****. It reads like a Hubert Selby Jr. rip-off.

[Jyqm]

Telling people they're ridiculous for an opinion just stirs the pot.

I'm sorry, Nurse Ratched.

Don't worry, though, I think Josh and I are largely capable of having an interesting, heated discussion without... whatever it is that people seem to be so afraid will happen if people actually have an interesting, heated discussion around here.

But I'll be sure to make my next post about which brands of shampoo people prefer, if it will make everybody feel better about themselves.

[dissention]

Are people these days so entrenched in their own realities and so far removed from the possibilities and promises of literature that they need to be told that the main character of a book is a real person in order to get anything out of it?

I find it hilarious that you feel the need to ask such a question when the answer is as obvious as the nose on your face.

[Jyqm]

The difference is that he lied to the book-buying public to sell his book. It's a work of fiction and should have been treated as such.

Okay, so again: What's the difference? What difference does that make?

(Sorry if it seems like I'm repeating myself or beating you over the head with this, but it's an honest question. I read novels and memoirs more or less in the same way, and I'm interested in what the difference is for some people.)

[Jyqm]

I find it hilarious that you feel the need to ask such a question when the answer is as obvious as the nose on your face.

I actually lost my nose in a drug-induced car wreck, you insensitive--nah, I just made that up.

Rhetorical, dear! The question was rhetorical!

[dissention]

Okay, so again: What's the difference? What difference does that make?

(Sorry if it seems like I'm repeating myself or beating you over the head with this, but it's an honest question. I read novels and memoirs more or less in the same way, and I'm interested in what the difference is for some people.)

When I read novels, I don't expect to read something that the author is trying to pass off as reality to me. When I read nonfiction, I expect the works to have enough truth to them to be respectable and deserving of the label "nonfiction." I don't expect the author to invent entire criminal records, prison stays, drug offenses, involvements in train accidents, and tense meetings in rehab about how they're going to deal with all of the things they've supposedly done. It's deceptive and unfair to the reader.

Just last night on Larry King, he said that he wrote of cutting his cheek when, in reality, he "fell down, [his] lower teeth tore up my lip and penetrated it in two separate places." When pressed by King as to why, he said "Because it's a lot easier than saying over and over again that I cut the area between my lower lip and my chin." That answer made me wonder if he was still lighting that crackpipe up. He had no reason to invent all of these things or exaggerate these things unless his actual story wasn't all that interesting to begin with. Don't tell me it's 100% true when it's 75% bull****.

[Jyqm]

When I read novels, I don't expect to read something that the author is trying to pass off as reality to me. When I read nonfiction, I expect the works to have enough truth to them to be respectable and deserving of the label "nonfiction." I don't expect the author to invent entire criminal records, prison stays, drug offenses, involvements in train accidents, and tense meetings in rehab about how they're going to deal with all of the things they've supposedly done. It's deceptive and unfair to the reader.

That's still not really answering for me what the difference is, though. I understand the difference in expectations of literal veracity that comes with reading either fiction or nonfiction. (Also, just so we're clear on terms, when I say "nonfiction" in this thread, I'm just referring to the specific type of nonfiction that includes memoirs and autobiographies, which are of course very different from nonfiction books about history or cooking or flower arranging.) But why do those expectations make a difference in what you get out of such a book?

I think maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and making unstated assumptions, so we're not on the same page yet as far as what I'm trying to ask. So here's an attempt at explication of what I'm trying to get at: By their very nature, memoirs of non-famous people, especially those that are only tangentially or not at all related to well-known public events or history, are more or less novels in just about every aspect except the assumption that a memoir is literally true. Pick your favorite Bildungsroman (Great Expectations?) or first-person novel (Catcher in the Rye?); the only difference between it and a non-famous person's non-historical memoir is that the events described in the memoir are expected actually to have taken place. (Or am I wrong? Is there something else?)

So putting aside whether the author is a dick, how he's acting on television, and all that, and just looking at the book, what difference does it make to you as a reader if you know that the book is a first-person novel or a memoir? How do those differing expectations of truth affect how you read the book and what you get out of it?

Or is it impossible today to put the author aside in a world where any non-famous person who writes a memoir instantly becomes famous and is all over TV and the Internet? Do the author's celebrity persona and real-life actions in the present then become inextricably linked with the book?

[Jyqm]

A new wrinkle:

I just read this on another newsgroup; I asked the person who posted it if they had a source, so I'll post that as soon as I get it. But apparently, Frey and his agent originally pushed AMLP as a novel. They were turned down by seventeen different publishers. When they decided to call it a memoir instead (after thoroughly editing the text), the book got picked up almost immediately.

EDIT: Best non-blog source I can find for this is the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Scroll down past Jessica Simpson and Lindsay Lohan: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/peopleinthenews/story/9CF35AB2E2C07A49862570F30001FE3E?OpenDocument

[Raeven Skye]

A new wrinkle:

I just read this on another newsgroup; I asked the person who posted it if they had a source, so I'll post that as soon as I get it. But apparently, Frey and his agent originally pushed AMLP as a novel. They were turned down by seventeen different publishers. When they decided to call it a memoir instead (after thoroughly editing the text), the book got picked up almost immediately.

EDIT: Best non-blog source I can find for this is the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Scroll down past Jessica Simpson and Lindsay Lohan: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/peopleinthenews/story/9CF35AB2E2C07A49862570F30001FE3E?OpenDocument

that's interesting...i read all the smoking gun stuff yesterday...puts him in a terrible light

[Jyqm]

that's interesting...i read all the smoking gun stuff yesterday...puts him in a terrible light

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it puts American consumer culture in general in a much more unflattering light than it does him. I think the whole story reveals a lot more about the piss-poor state of the American literary imagination, celebrity worship, rampant voyeurism, all that crap, than it does about Frey's ethics as an author. I say good for him for exploiting the system and the public.

[dissention]

That's still not really answering for me what the difference is, though. I understand the difference in expectations of literal veracity that comes with reading either fiction or nonfiction. (Also, just so we're clear on terms, when I say "nonfiction" in this thread, I'm just referring to the specific type of nonfiction that includes memoirs and autobiographies, which are of course very different from nonfiction books about history or cooking or flower arranging.) But why do those expectations make a difference in what you get out of such a book?

It depends on the reader's reason for deciding to pick up such a book and invest so much time into. Whereas I simply picked it up and read it after being told that it was an entertaining read, there could be people out there who decided to read it based on the fact that it was a true account of one man's life and they wanted to gain a better understanding of drug addiction & the effects it had on someone. For those people, I'm sure that there are some who feel fooled by this Frey character and now don't put any stock into what he said. Some of those people now probably feel as if they didn't gain that much by reading the book since it's mostly a work of fiction.

So putting aside whether the author is a dick, how he's acting on television, and all that, and just looking at the book, what difference does it make to you as a reader if you know that the book is a first-person novel or a memoir? How do those differing expectations of truth affect how you read the book and what you get out of it?

Or is it impossible today to put the author aside in a world where any non-famous person who writes a memoir instantly becomes famous and is all over TV and the Internet? Do the author's celebrity persona and real-life actions in the present then become inextricably linked with the book?

I think that for some people who have read it, they became as attached to Frey as they did to the story being told simply based on the fact that he is a real person who is supposedly writing truthfully about his life. Because he's a real person, I'm sure there are readers who found him more human than they would have if they were consciously reading it as a work of fiction. To find out that the author wrote a book that wasn't the nonfiction cautionary/inspirational tale that it was made out to be seems deceptive and people are obviously going to question what they got out of the book. For example, Frey writes continuously about his drug addiction causing him to lie about all kinds of things in his life to the people around him. What is the reader to think when they discover that this is a man who has supposedly been off of drugs for 12 years and is now lying in his memoir about things that happened to him? It disrupts the trust that the reader may have established with him. No one who picks up the book with the mindset that smoking crack is an okay thing to do, so it's not as if that's what they're reading the book in an attempt to learn. It's being read by and large as a book that outlines one man's struggle with drug addiction and the ways in which he dealt with it. If he's lying about things like his criminal past, he could very well be lying about and glamorizing rehabilitation. You're still going to come away from the book with respect for the character that Frey constructed, but you're going to wonder what the truth is since he's obviously not writing about it.

Speaking for myself, I only read it because it was recommended to me and I'm only insulted over it because I don't appreciate being lied to when I'm told something is nonfiction when, in reality, it's a work of fiction. I still think it's a fantastically entertaining read, even if it's poorly written.

[Raeven Skye]

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it puts American consumer culture in general in a much more unflattering light than it does him. I think the whole story reveals a lot more about the piss-poor state of the American literary imagination, celebrity worship, rampant voyeurism, all that crap, than it does about Frey's ethics as an author. I say good for him for exploiting the system and the public.
I get your point, and I only say that it puts him in a bad light because he so obviously lied about everything, and is trying desperately to stick to his guns (which don't exist). If this was supposed to be a work of fiction, then BFD...but it was supposed to be his autobiography, and people (not me, b/c i'm not "invested"), feel cheated. what should happen? he should tell the truth.

[Jyqm]

It depends on the reader's reason for deciding to pick up such a book and invest so much time into. Whereas I simply picked it up and read it after being told that it was an entertaining read, there could be people out there who decided to read it based on the fact that it was a true account of one man's life and they wanted to gain a better understanding of drug addiction & the effects it had on someone. For those people, I'm sure that there are some who feel fooled by this Frey character and now don't put any stock into what he said. Some of those people now probably feel as if they didn't gain that much by reading the book since it's mostly a work of fiction.



I think that for some people who have read it, they became as attached to Frey as they did to the story being told simply based on the fact that he is a real person who is supposedly writing truthfully about his life. Because he's a real person, I'm sure there are readers who found him more human than they would have if they were consciously reading it as a work of fiction. To find out that the author wrote a book that wasn't the nonfiction cautionary/inspirational tale that it was made out to be seems deceptive and people are obviously going to question what they got out of the book. For example, Frey writes continuously about his drug addiction causing him to lie about all kinds of things in his life to the people around him. What is the reader to think when they discover that this is a man who has supposedly been off of drugs for 12 years and is now lying in his memoir about things that happened to him? It disrupts the trust that the reader may have established with him. No one who picks up the book with the mindset that smoking crack is an okay thing to do, so it's not as if that's what they're reading the book in an attempt to learn. It's being read by and large as a book that outlines one man's struggle with drug addiction and the ways in which he dealt with it. If he's lying about things like his criminal past, he could very well be lying about and glamorizing rehabilitation. You're still going to come away from the book with respect for the character that Frey constructed, but you're going to wonder what the truth is since he's obviously not writing about it.

Speaking for myself, I only read it because it was recommended to me and I'm only insulted over it because I don't appreciate being lied to when I'm told something is nonfiction when, in reality, it's a work of fiction. I still think it's a fantastically entertaining read, even if it's poorly written.

That completely answers my question, thank you! And I guess we agree somewhat on the state of the American literary imagination, though I've got a bit less sympathy than you do for those folks who don't or can't get as much out of fiction as they would out of an inspirational memoir. But I guess I've never really made any bones about being something of a literary snob. Now, back to my eighteenth century German epic poetry... (There's centaurs!)

(Now that this relatively intelligent and interesting - if I say so myself, anyway - discussion has reached something of a conclusion, by the way, the rest of you can return to your period of "peace." I hear that Jennifer Aniston did... something... today. Probably.)

[Jyqm]

I get your point, and I only say that it puts him in a bad light because he so obviously lied about everything, and is trying desperately to stick to his guns (which don't exist). If this was supposed to be a work of fiction, then BFD...but it was supposed to be his autobiography, and people (not me, b/c i'm not "invested"), feel cheated. what should happen? he should tell the truth.

I agree, he is making himself look rather silly at this point by not saying simply, "All right, you got me, it started out as fiction, a lot of it is exaggerated and made up! Oops!"

As for those who feel cheated, though, I think this is almost more an instance of them cheating themselves, assuming this the attitude they take toward literature in general.

[dissention]

That completely answers my question, thank you! And I guess we agree somewhat on the state of the American literary imagination, though I've got a bit less sympathy than you do for those folks who don't or can't get as much out of fiction as they would out of an inspirational memoir. But I guess I've never really made any bones about being something of a literary snob. Now, back to my eighteenth century German epic poetry... (There's centaurs!)

Meh, at least they're reading something instead of sitting in front of the telly and playing video games for three hours a day. :laugh:

It is somewhat disconcerting to see what passes for literature these days, we do agree on that, and it's nothing short of depressing to peruse the bestseller lists. I remember getting quite a laugh a year or so back when "1776" by David McCullough was continually sitting atop the nonfiction bestseller lists. You just know that people were only buying it to show it off in their bookshelves and I'd be amazed if 20 percent, a rather high estimate, even read the first fifteen pages or so. I still go to look it up on Amazon just to see it's current position and get a good chuckle. These are the masses who make books by Sharon Rocha and Amber Frey bestsellers.

(Now that this relatively intelligent and interesting - if I say so myself, anyway - discussion has reached something of a conclusion, by the way, the rest of you can return to your period of "peace." I hear that Jennifer Aniston did... something... today. Probably.)

I heard that she urinated and took a breath earlier today, though my source could have bad intel.

[cliffdweller]

I take it you've never read Jerzy Kosinski's book, pal. When I read nonfiction, I expect it to be truthful, especially when the prick who wrote it is going around town telling everyone who will listen that it's all a completely true account of his life and something that he wrote in attempt to be honest with himself over his past transgressions. Call me silly, but I think it's pretty disgusting and scummy when someone invents a role for themself in an accident that claimed the lives of two people. Just as it's equally scummy to write a book detailing all of the horrible things that your involvement with drugs were partly responsible for when half of those things were fictionalized in your head. So, what difference does it make to me? A helluva lot. Not to mention the fact that it makes me sick to see him enjoying all the riches and accolades that this book brought him when he lied to everyone so blatantly. Without his truth banner attached to it, it wouldn't have sold or become as popular as it has.


Yeah, I believe it's called ethos, and when an author (be it fiction or non-fiction) has none, I'm not interested. Bottom line.

I'm with you Diss about the train story. What a douchebag.

[Jyqm]

Meh, at least they're reading something instead of sitting in front of the telly and playing video games for three hours a day. :laugh:

Agreed!

And as long we're on the topic of literature, can somebody tell me what on earth that questionnaire thread has to do with Proust? I've been staring quizzically at it for days. (Also, you're all woefully boring people. "In my sleep!" "Quickly and painlessly!" Yeah, great. Time to grow a pair, kids. A mid-air sword fight with Sean Connery after jumping out of a plane. That's how I'm going out.)

[dissention]

I'm with you Diss about the train story. What a douchebag.

And not just any old douche, the cheap water & vinegar crap that you can buy at Price Rite on special two for a dollar.

[BTFLCHLD]

has anyone read frey's followup "My friend Leonard"

[dissention]

Agreed!

And as long we're on the topic of literature, can somebody tell me what on earth that questionnaire thread has to do with Proust? I've been staring quizzically at it for days. (Also, you're all woefully boring people. "In my sleep!" "Quickly and painlessly!" Yeah, great. Time to grow a pair, kids. A mid-air sword fight with Sean Connery after jumping out of a plane. That's how I'm going out.)

It was a famous birthday party game that Proust played a couple of times and the answers he wrote in the birthday books have been published. He didn't invent it or anything.

His answer to "How would you like to die?" is quite good: A better man than I am and much beloved.

[cliffdweller]

Agreed!

And as long we're on the topic of literature, can somebody tell me what on earth that questionnaire thread has to do with Proust? I've been staring quizzically at it for days. (Also, you're all woefully boring people. "In my sleep!" "Quickly and painlessly!" Yeah, great. Time to grow a pair, kids. A mid-air sword fight with Sean Connery after jumping out of a plane. That's how I'm going out.)


Onward my friend. Just make sure YOU win. I hate Sean Connery.

[gldstwmn]

Some call the president a dry drunk.

There's nothing dry about him. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Just last night on Larry King, he said that he wrote of cutting his cheek when, in reality, he "fell down, [his] lower teeth tore up my lip and penetrated it in two separate places." When pressed by King as to why, he said "Because it's a lot easier than saying over and over again that I cut the area between my lower lip and my chin." That answer made me wonder if he was still lighting that crackpipe up. He had no reason to invent all of these things or exaggerate these things unless his actual story wasn't all that interesting to begin with. Don't tell me it's 100% true when it's 75% bull****.

That was one uncomfortable interivew. It's obvious though that something happened to his face, looking at pictures of him before and seeing him now.

[gldstwmn]

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it puts American consumer culture in general in a much more unflattering light than it does him. I think the whole story reveals a lot more about the piss-poor state of the American literary imagination, celebrity worship, rampant voyeurism, all that crap, than it does about Frey's ethics as an author. I say good for him for exploiting the system and the public.

Get over yourself, already. :rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

has anyone read frey's followup "My friend Leonard"

No but I probably will. Does that make me pathetic? :laugh:

[dissention]

That was one uncomfortable interivew. It's obvious though that something happened to his face, looking at pictures of him before and seeing him now.

I cringed throughout the interview. He couldn't even come up with any good excuses for being such a liar. "It's a memoir." If he said that one more damned time, I would have kicked a hole through my telly. Who the fukc remembers spending three months in prison when they never did? Who remembers hitting a cop with their car when they never did? Who remembers being charged with felony mayhem and felony DUI when those charges didn't even exist? Who remembers being beaten up in prison by a man they read Tolstoy and James Joyce to in retaliation for hitting a cop with their car when they were never in prison in the first place? If that's his memory, I'm sending his stupid ass a case of Ginkgo.

[macfanken]

I cringed throughout the interview. He couldn't even come up with any good excuses for being such a liar. "It's a memoir." If he said that one more damned time, I would have kicked a hole through my telly.


He should have said "truthiness".

[dissention]

He should have said "truthiness".

He should have said "I suffer from assholism."

[Jyqm]

Get over yourself, already. :rolleyes:

No.

(idiotic emoticon of some sort)

[sara1998]

Get over yourself, already. :rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol:

[DavidMn]

He's a fukcer. The ultimate was when he told King that he's been tempted this past week to go back to drugs. I literally screamed at my television set and woke up everyone in my apartment from all my bitching about that rat bastard. What a weasel. Pray that CNN reruns it this weekend so that everyone interested can see it because this guy is a real piece of work. A memoir is an autobiography, **** For Brains, not "creative nonfiction."

AND he trotted out his poor mother on the show to play the sympathy card.That mother thing was bad. I was dissapointed to see that. Bull**** is bull**** no matter which way you try to spin it.

[cliffdweller]

He should have said "truthiness".

:laugh: Long live Stephen Colbert!!

[Jyqm]

Interesting article on CNN.com today that looks at this controversy from the literary perspectivewe were getting into here. It's not terribly long or in-depth, but it strikes a nice balance between my and Josh's opinions, I think:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/01/12/eye.ent.story/index.html

[SuzeQuze]

There's nothing dry about him. :laugh:

'Cept maybe the powder going up his nose. :eek: :lol:

[Jyqm]

Very good op-ed piece in the New York Times today about this whole thing. Josh, I think you'll really like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/opinion/15karr.html

[dissention]

Very good op-ed piece in the New York Times today about this whole thing. Josh, I think you'll really like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/opinion/15karr.html

Thanks, it was a good read. That's essentially how I feel, though I did get a chuckle out of "And now, writing my own memoirs, I know God is in the truth."

And did you hear what Oprah just picked for her new selection? Elie Wiesel's "Night." I found that to be particularly amusing.

[SuzeQuze]

Thanks, it was a good read. That's essentially how I feel, though I did get a chuckle out of "And now, writing my own memoirs, I know God is in the truth."

And did you hear what Oprah just picked for her new selection? Elie Wiesel's "Night." I found that to be particularly amusing.

Well according to Amazon "Night" is a novel taken from Wiesel's life, he didn't say it was all factual. That's all I know about it so I wonder, why do you find the choice amusing?

[Jyqm]

Well according to Amazon "Night" is a novel taken from Wiesel's life, he didn't say it was all factual. That's all I know about it so I wonder, why do you find the choice amusing?

Not to speak for Josh, but "novels" don't really get much more autobiographical than Night. So the irony/amusing part is that Oprah's newest pick is now a work that's labelled as "fiction" but which is very firmly rooted in real events, as opposed to her last pick, a work labelled as "nonfiction" that ended up being not quite that.

EDIT: Also, for everyone's reading pleasure, here's a bunch of letters to the editor from today's New York Times. Lots of different takes on the issue of A Million Little Pieces and some interesting points made: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/opinion/l17memoir.html

EDIT #2: And here's another article from today's Times about Oprah's choice of Night. Wiesel mentions that he gets angry when people refer to the book as a "novel." As always, I find these categories and their implications and people's reactions to them to be infinitely fascinating: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/16/books/16cnd-oprah.html

EDIT #3: The Times just can't get enough Frey today. Here's an article by in-house lit critic Michiko Kakutani that looks at Pieces as an embodiment of American culture's obsession with relativism and subjectivity over objective truth. Some very interesting comparisons to the Bush administration, television pundits and postmodernism, but I wish Kakutani had also examined the issue from the decline-of-fiction perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/books/17kaku.html

[gldstwmn]

Just a heads up, Frey will be on Oprah this afternoon. It should be interesting.:)

[dissention]

Just a heads up, Frey will be on Oprah this afternoon. It should be interesting.:)

It's going to be him, Oprah, and his publisher. Expect nothing but damage control and spin.

[macfanken]

It's going to be him, Oprah, and his publisher. Expect nothing but damage control and spin.


I hear Oprah regrets supporting him on Larry King recently and is not very happy... sounds like Oprah will be doing damage control for Oprah... and feeding him to the sharks.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

CALLING RANDY...

I know you don't post often, but I thought you should ring in here! You DO work in books dear...

:xoxo:

[dissention]

I hear Oprah regrets supporting him on Larry King recently and is not very happy... sounds like Oprah will be doing damage control for Oprah... and feeding him to the sharks.

Really? Where did you hear that? I may tune in after all. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Really? Where did you hear that? I may tune in after all. :laugh:

ummmmmmmm........

on Larry King recently

[dissention]

ummmmmmmm........

Ummmmmmm...

"Oprah regrets supporting him on Larry King recently..."

He's talking about when she called in to Larry King to support him, bub.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ummmmmmm...

"Oprah regrets supporting him on Larry King recently..."

He's talking about when she called in to Larry King to support him, bub.

Ohhh my mistake. I read it wrong..oopsy! :)

[macfanken]

Really? Where did you hear that? I may tune in after all. :laugh:


i just saw something on msnbc... saying OPRAH is *not* happy. They showed a little clip... she looked a little pissed. :lol:

[dissention]

From People:

http://people.aol.com/people/articles/0,19736,1153155,00.html

Oprah Confronts James Frey

Oprah Winfrey made a stunning reversal on Thursday, confronting James Frey about his memoir of drug and alcohol addiction, A Million Little Pieces, and telling him that she felt "duped" by the book that she helped launch onto the bestseller lists.

"It is difficult for me to talk to you because I really feel duped ... but more importantly I feel that you betrayed millions of readers," Winfrey says to Frey, during the live-to-tape show, and asks why the writer "felt the need to lie," the Associated Press reports.

A Million Little Pieces hit stores in 2003 and enjoyed only moderate sales, then became the second bestselling title of last year, after Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, once Winfrey touted it as her book club pick in September.

The high of the book's commercial success came to a crashing end on Jan. 8, however, when the Smoking Gun Web site published a report about Frey's accounts, saying that the author embellished, and even invented, some of his material.

In a surprise call into Larry King Live while Frey was a guest, Winfrey called the criticism "much ado about nothing," and said: "What is relevant is that he was a drug addict ... and stepped out of that history to be the man he is today and to take that message to save other people and allow them to save themselves."

But Winfrey says now that she regrets making that call. "I left the impression that the truth is not important," she says on her show.

In his interview with King, Frey acknowledged he had embellished certain parts of the book but characterized the changes as minor.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/books/01/26/frey.disputed.memoir.ap/index.html

Oprah to author: 'I really feel duped'
James Frey upbraided by talk show host

Thursday, January 26, 2006; Posted: 11:57 a.m. EST (16:57 GMT)


CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Oprah Winfrey challenged author James Frey over his disputed memoir, asking him on a live telecast of her show Thursday to explain why he "felt the need to lie."

"It is difficult for me to talk to you because I really feel duped ... but more importantly I feel that you betrayed millions of readers," Winfrey said to Frey, who wrote the hugely popular "A Million Little Pieces."

Frey's story of substance abuse and recovery became one of the best-selling books of 2005 after Winfrey named it to her book club last fall, with countless addicts citing it as inspiration. It was originally published in 2003.

The memoir began to unravel earlier this month when an investigative piece on The Smoking Gun Web site (www.thesmokinggun.com) challenged some of the facts in the book, including Frey's assertion that he once spent three months in prison.

Frey, 36, appeared on CNN's "Larry King Live" show after The Smoking Gun story appeared, and Winfrey phoned in her support for him and for the book, calling the allegations against Frey "much ado about nothing."

"What is relevant is that he was a drug addict ... and stepped out of that history to be the man he is today and to take that message to save other people and allow them to save themselves," Winfrey said in the surprise call two weeks ago.

But Winfrey, who has been widely criticized, even by e-mailers on her Web site, for her apparent indifference to the controversy, said Thursday that she regretted making that call.

"I left the impression that the truth is not important," she said.

Frey acknowledged to King that he had embellished parts of the book, and he told Winfrey Thursday that the same demons that fueled his addictions caused him to mischaracterize himself.

"I made a mistake," Frey told Winfrey on Thursday.

Frey's acknowledgments have not hurt sales so far, with both "A Million Little Pieces" and its sequel, "My Friend Leonard," high on best seller lists. His publisher, Doubleday, said last week that Frey was writing a brief author's note for future editions of "A Million Little Pieces."

[gldstwmn]

i just saw something on msnbc... saying OPRAH is *not* happy. They showed a little clip... she looked a little pissed. :lol:

I'll definitely watch this afternoon. Should be good.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oprah to author: 'I really feel duped'

Oprah said "duped"...hehe...

Am I the only one who thinks that is a funny word? hehe....

[JazmenFlowers]

Oprah said "duped"...hehe...

Am I the only one who thinks that is a funny word? hehe....
it's the queen of talk and perfectly strategized wording trying to be ghetto...again...

[bikerchic]

Oh.My.God. This is good! Are you watching? Lying bastard.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I LOVE watching people suffer...have I ever mentioned that before???

:lol:

This guy is a loser!

[macfanken]

I LOVE watching people suffer...have I ever mentioned that before???




of course you do... you're a repub.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

of course you do... you're a repub.

:rolleyes: .........

[macfanken]

:rolleyes: .........


oh come on... you set yourself up... what am I supposed to do? Be nice and ignore it? :eek: :lol:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

oh come on... you set yourself up... what am I supposed to do? Be nice and ignore it? :eek: :lol:

No you can't...you're a lib. :p

[gldstwmn]

Oh.My.God. This is good! Are you watching? Lying bastard.

It's on now. I've never seen an Oprah like this one. :lol:

[dissention]

It's on now. I've never seen an Oprah like this one. :lol:

She's pissed. I love it!

Now if only the Smoking Gun went after that asshole Augusten Burroughs and his tall tales.

[DavidMn]

Who was Oprah pissed at? I missed it? was it the author?

[macfanken]

GRRRR!!!! OPRAH NOT HAPPY!!! :mad:

[DavidMn]

GRRRR!!!! OPRAH NOT HAPPY!!! :mad:Tell me why!! I must know!:lol:

[macfanken]

Tell me why!! I must know!:lol:


Let's just say you don't want to f**k with OPRAH or you will feel her wrath.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Let's just say you don't want to f**k with OPRAH or you will feel her wrath.

You must hate being on the West coast in times like this...!

Oh man...it only gets better!!!!

[RavenOfRhiannon]

CALLING RANDY...

I know you don't post often, but I thought you should ring in here! You DO work in books dear...

:xoxo:


If you think the press and the reaction has been bad in public, you should hear the goings on backstage in the publishing world. Everything from I told you so to intense fear that Oprah will discontinue her book club.
Expect to see memoirs pulled from release lists as the fact checkers give them a once over one last time

[Brwn_eyes0511]

If you think the press and the reaction has been bad in public, you should hear the goings on backstage in the publishing world. Everything from I told you so to intense fear that Oprah will discontinue her book club.
Expect to see memoirs pulled from release lists as the fact checkers give them a once over one last time

Wow Randy, I had no idea that things were THAT bad. At least not until I watched Oprah today...good LORD! It's pretty serious **** this man has gotten himself into...I do feel a little sorry for him.


(HEAR THAT KEN!!! I SAID SORRY!!! ;) )

[dissention]

I do feel a little sorry for him.


Why? He's the one who lied to everyone.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Why? He's the one who lied to everyone.

I was just trying to show that I do have a little compassion!!!:p

but a large hunk of me wants the fool to fall flat on his face!!!!! HARD!

[dissention]

I was just trying to show that I do have a little compassion!!!:p

By showing some for a swindler? I hope his writing career crashes and burns. His books are selling well now, but just wait for the follow-up. It will bomb.

but a large hunk of me wants the fool to fall flat on his face!!!!! HARD!

He already has. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

He already has. :laugh:

Yes, but he hasn't done it enough...

MORE for the liar man!!! ;)

[dissention]

Yes, but he hasn't done it enough...

MORE for the liar man!!! ;)

I think being called a liar and a fraud by Oprah on national television is MORE than enough. :shocked: That asshat has been slaughtered!

[gldstwmn]

If anyone missed the show, they can read about it here:

http://www.gawker.com/news/fake-writer-day/do-not-piss-off-the-oprah-151023.php

[MoonChilde]

Kudos to Oprah for doing this on her show and admitting not only was she "duped" but wrong..She also tried to get the author to come clean..(in case there are more lies)..What a low life he is..I noticed he would not make eye contact with anyone and had a sneer on his mug most of the time..

[Brwn_eyes0511]

<img src="http://www.gawker.com/news/IMG_0243.jpg">

Ok, Randy...you said you have met this woman....

does she really look like THIS in person???

:lol:

Although I DID feel sorry for her...

[gldstwmn]

I think being called a liar and a fraud by Oprah on national television is MORE than enough. :shocked: That asshat has been slaughtered!

I can't believe he went on the show. God, she was pissed. He didn't even want to answer any of her questions.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I know most of you don't like her, but Michelle's blog is the only place I have been able to find a clip from Oprah's show today...OPRAH MAD!

http://media.michellemalkin.com/videos/Freyfinal.wmv

[jannieC]

If anyone missed the show, they can read about it here:

http://www.gawker.com/news/fake-writer-day/do-not-piss-off-the-oprah-151023.php
Oh lord, that was funny.


I only got to watch the first few minutes of Oprah before I had to leave, but she really was pissed, and much more focused than I have ever seen her on the show.

[bikerchic]

Just a head's up for today's Oprah, the cast of "Brokeback Mountain" :thumbsup:

[gldstwmn]

Oh lord, that was funny.


I only got to watch the first few minutes of Oprah before I had to leave, but she really was pissed, and much more focused than I have ever seen her on the show.

I wanted her to ask what else was altered in the book but I think she was afraid the whole thing might just unravel and the audience would attack him. :lol:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I wanted her to ask what else was altered in the book but I think she was afraid the whole thing might just unravel and the audience would attack him. :lol:

She did ask him that...at the end.

[GiniLeaE]

<center>I think being called a liar and a fraud by Oprah on national television is MORE than enough. :shocked: That asshat has been slaughtered!</center>


<center> You can say that again... :shocked: Not sure if anyone saw this already, but here's his statement on his publisher's website that they've just released! It will be in the newly published copies...

http://www.randomhouse.com/trade/publicity/pdfs/AMLP020106.pdf</center>