Stevie, '75 vs. '77

[Rickypt]

I recently got DVD of a '75 FM concert in Largo and '77 Japan concert/Rosebud film. Which I'm sure you've all seen a million times, but brand new to me (except for the Rhiannon clip).

I notice a remarkable change in Stevie between the '75 and '77 performances. In '75, she is wearing pants, seems a bit awkward onstage, and her moves are rather hippiesh. I love her in this video!

In '77, she seems to have fully developed her "persona", with the skirts, spins, spacey moves, and she is totally confident.

Also, as much as I love current Stevie, watching the '05 Las Vegas show after seeing these performances is rather :eek:

[gldstwmn]

I agree that there is a big difference between '75 & '77. I love the jeans and the long shawl she wears in '75. But there is a sort of hesitancy in her performance, almost like she doesn't want to stand out too much. By '77, she had comletely changed her lifestyle and had a number one hit record, so she was much more confidant.

[AuDustWoman]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:

[ontheEdgeof17]

You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us


Well, that depends on what your definition of "rockin'" is.....;)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:

A fan can't have an opinion?

[AuDustWoman]

There is having an opinion and then there is just being rude.

Let him put his money where his mouth is. Wait I forget when you are 17 you know it all.:cool:

[DavidMn]

There is having an opinion and then there is just being rude.

Let him put his money where his mouth is. Wait I forget when you are 17 you know it all.:cool:I didnt know **** when I was 17... Still dont.:lol: And I'm damn near 35 now...:eek:

[jannieC]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:
I don't think he's passing judgement. I've loved Stevie for over 20 years, but her performances of today in no way match her performaces of almost 30 years ago. Eh, this conversation has been had before..too many times, IMO.

Glad you're enjoying the old footage, Rickypt. ;)

[David]

I recently got DVD of a '75 FM concert in Largo and '77 Japan concert/Rosebud film. Which I'm sure you've all seen a million times, but brand new to me (except for the Rhiannon clip).

I notice a remarkable change in Stevie between the '75 and '77 performances. In '75, she is wearing pants, seems a bit awkward onstage, and her moves are rather hippiesh. I love her in this video!

In '77, she seems to have fully developed her "persona", with the skirts, spins, spacey moves, and she is totally confident.She turned into "Stevie Nicks" even sooner than that. By the end of the touring year in 1975, she was witch-dancing & wearing black chiffon & top hat.
Also, as much as I love current Stevie, watching the '05 Las Vegas show after seeing these performances is rather :eek: Cold are the hands of time that creep along relentlessly, destroying slowly but without pity that which yesterday was young. Alone, our memories resist this disintegration and grow more lovely with the passing years. --The Wienie King in Preston Sturges's "Palm Beach Story" (1942)
http://www.filmsite.org/posters/palm2.jpg

[Rickypt]

I can't believe after all the times I've defended Stevie on and off this board that I would have to defend my status as a fan.

I didn't say her Vegas performance was :eek: in and of itself. I said it was :eek: compared to this old footage that I'd never seen. Maybe I don't understand the emoticon :eek: , to me it means surprising or shocking. It's not like I used a vomiting face or anything.

I know damn well that Stevie is 57 years old and I think she looks and sounds great these days. I also think her Vegas performance that I have on DVD (first performance of the run) was stiff and uninspired. When I compare Rhiannon from Rosebud with Rhiannon from Vegas, sorry but it's :eek: to me.

I also noticed the comparison because I just finished watching Heart soundstage and couldn't believe how much Ann Wilson still rocks and hits high notes. She's probably not that much younger than Stevie, and I was thinking to myself, wow what a difference. Then I put on the Stevie DVDs, and...well, never mind. I really didn't mean to start anything or insult Stevie. I'm willing to put up 2K to see her sing a setlist I can't stand for christsake.

[Rickypt]

Wait I forget when you are 17 you know it all.:cool:

I'm not sure if you're referring to me, but I'm on the edge of 37. And I know quite a bit about getting older.

[Rickypt]

She turned into "Stevie Nicks" even sooner than that. By the end of the touring year in 1975, she was witch-dancing & wearing black chiffon & top hat.

Do you know what sparked the change? Maybe just gaining confidence?

[gldstwmn]

There is having an opinion and then there is just being rude.

Let him put his money where his mouth is. Wait I forget when you are 17 you know it all.:cool:

I think you're misconstruing the meaning of the post. I doubt it was intended with any malice. In fact, he said it wasn't. Ease up.

[MacMan]

I also think her Vegas performance that I have on DVD (first performance of the run) was stiff and uninspired. When I compare Rhiannon from Rosebud with Rhiannon from Vegas, sorry but it's :eek: to me.

I understood what you meant in your initial post Rick... And with what you are comparing the old footage to, you are right... The first night in Vegas WAS a little stiff and uninspired, but it's the first night... a little nervy I suppose. She loosened up as the week and eventual tour went on.

[StevieNicksEO17]

I understood what you meant in your initial post Rick... And with what you are comparing the old footage to, you are right... The first night in Vegas WAS a little stiff and uninspired, but it's the first night... a little nervy I suppose. She loosened up as the week and eventual tour went on.

I LOVE that first picture of Stevie in your signature!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:


Well first of all I dont think you should pass judgement to him for having an opinion...he can have whatever opinion of any era of Stevie's performance he wants to dont you think?
I like that Stevie is still rockin at 57, but some people just dont like it..and that's their choice.. I think she's doing much better now at 57, than she was in 1986 when she was so coked out she talked her way and growled through songs, often actually sounding like a goat..We all have our eras we prefer over others...I don't think he is any less a "Fan" because he doesnt like the current era.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I LOVE that first picture of Stevie in your signature!

I was just thinking that also!

Chris

[David]

Do you know what sparked the change? Maybe just gaining confidence?Probably. I mean, everybody in that situation would gain some confidence sooner or later: Lindsey certainly did. He blossomed as a performer throughout the Rumours Tour & was the onstage leader for the Tusk Tour & after. When people are applauding & cat-calling & whistling for you, your confidence is going to blossom. Plus you get into the swing of things with your new band: the first few months of touring aren't going to be as relaxed as the months after that. You get into the groove & you're able to play on autopilot & you don't have to worry about technical things that you worried about at first. It's just like any job: You learn how to do it & you learn to expend less & recoup more.

As far as the costume, I take Stevie pretty much at face value: She said Margi designed an outfit (the black chiffon outfit) for her that she could wear every night & accessorize & look really cool in & not have to worry about. There must be something really confidence-inducing about that outfit because look at all the women (& men) who dress up in it--for Fleetwood Mac concerts & fan gatherings & grocery shopping. I think thousands of people really love wearing that particular outfit, so part of the reason must be that it makes them feel cute, sexy, alluring, comfortable, &c.

So which band is Fleetwood Mac opening for on this Capitol Centre video? And did it really take place in May? I thought it was in September.

[Travis]

I don't think he's passing judgement. I've loved Stevie for over 20 years, but her performances of today in no way match her performaces of almost 30 years ago.




Actually, I disagree. There is no denying that Stevie was electrifying in her younger days, mainly the 70’s and early 80’s. But we all know that was enhanced by substances. It eventually caught up with her and her performances in the last 80’s and early 90’s suffered as a result of that. Now that Stevie is clean and sober and has been for a very long time, from the late 90’s to now, I don’t think Stevie has ever been more consistent in her performances. This past Gold Dust tour was my favorite tour ever (Mac or solo) seeing Stevie live. Unfortunately, people have a hard time watching our favorites performers grow old. I know for a while I was one of the ones that insisted there had to be better footwear than those platform Reeboks, LOL. But now I’m totally over it. I could care less. If it means that Stevie is more comfortable and is able to give us great performances such as this past tour, then that is fine with me.

[The Tower]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:
There is having an opinion and then there is just being rude.

Let him put his money where his mouth is. Wait I forget when you are 17 you know it all.
Wow- the post that Ryan made was infuriating enough to warrant SIX mad emoticons?? Geez, I wonder what calling Stevie a fat, old, washed up goat would get?

Regarding old footage, I'm still on "Ebony Eyes" from Cal Jam II. She looks so great and the smile on her face is just pure rapture. She really looks happy in that one. I would love to be able to sit down with her in the present and play that video and get her comments on it.

I can't believe after all the times I've defended Stevie on and off this board that I would have to defend my status as a fan.
You don't.

I also think her Vegas performance that I have on DVD (first performance of the run) was stiff and uninspired. When I compare Rhiannon from Rosebud with Rhiannon from Vegas, sorry but it's :eek: to me.
I'll do you one better- her performances of "Rhiannon" these days just plain suck. But, I've said that one before.

I also noticed the comparison because I just finished watching Heart soundstage and couldn't believe how much Ann Wilson still rocks and hits high notes. She's probably not that much younger than Stevie, and I was thinking to myself, wow what a difference.
Ann is two years younger than Stevie. Comparing the two of them really isn't fair. Stevie isn't on the same level as Ann is vocally. If we're talking about holding up to the ravages of aging, I think Stevie wins this one. Ann was looking great after stomach surgery and when I was standing three feet away from her in the front row of the Greek on the Jupiter's Darling tour she still looked pretty good. However, just a year later on the Soundstage performance her face is looking much older and puffier and she has gained back a significant amount of weight.

I LOVE that first picture of Stevie in your signature!
It's odd that she has her hands clenched into fists. Anyone else think that looks kinda strange?

[JazmenFlowers]

It's odd that she has her hands clenched into fists. Anyone else think that looks kinda strange?
I noticed that too...but after looking at it again I think she's holding the tips of her coat, like she does during the Today Show appearance.

[cliffdweller]

I also noticed the comparison because I just finished watching Heart soundstage and couldn't believe how much Ann Wilson still rocks and hits high notes. She's probably not that much younger than Stevie, and I was thinking to myself, wow what a difference. Then I put on the Stevie DVDs, and...well, never mind.


Preach it friend. I feel the same way whenever I see/hear Ann Wilson sing. She is STILL amazing, and I make the same comparison you do between Ann and Stevie or Stevie and anyone else out there still belting it like Cyndi Lauper, Pat Benatar, Tina Turner, etc. Stevie is not rising to the vocal challenge. Don't get me wrong, she still rocks, but it's just like she doesn't put her heart and soul into it vocally anymore. Straining one's voice is not really singing, and that's what Stevie tends to do more than anything these days.

[cliffdweller]

Ann is two years younger than Stevie. Comparing the two of them really isn't fair. Stevie isn't on the same level as Ann is vocally.

I think they are comparable. Why not? They both have had a good career of shredding their voices, the only difference is, Ann still sounds good and delivers killer performances whereas Stevie strains through the vocally challenging parts of her songs and takes the safe way out by lowering high notes and not "belting it" the way she used to. There's a marked difference between older Stevie voice and younger Stevie voice, the same is not true of Ann.

And one person who I am amazed does not have a ravaged voice is Robert Plant and just LOOK at the abuse he has heaped upon his vocal chords throughout the years. I'm surprised the man can still talk much less give amazing vocal performances at his age.

[Rickypt]

Wow- the post that Ryan made was infuriating enough to warrant SIX mad emoticons??

I know, I felt so bad that I ruined someone's Sunday out there. :cool:

I'll do you one better- her performances of "Rhiannon" these days just plain suck.

Well, I agree, but I was trying to be non-controversial in my opening post! I think Stevie should keep Rhiannon to a ballad these days if she's not going to let loose at the end. And I think she's perfectly capable of letting loose; she just holds herself back.

Comparing the two of them really isn't fair. Stevie isn't on the same level as Ann is vocally. If we're talking about holding up to the ravages of aging, I think Stevie wins this one.

No, I was talking about maintaining the same vocal abilities as 30 years ago. You are right, Ann has always been at a different level. But I also think that Stevie plays it way too safe vocally these days, and Ann doesn't. Physically, though, you're right. Stevie is way ahead.

And, by the way, I saw Stevie on the Gold Dust Tour, and thought she was really good. My comments about her recent performance was specific to Vegas, May 10, 2005.

[The Tower]

I think they are comparable. Why not?
Because Stevie has never been in the same vocal league as Ann- ever. There really isn't any singer out there that is really in Ann's league. However, Stevie is truly not the same caliber of singer that Ann is.

There's a marked difference between older Stevie voice and younger Stevie voice, the same is not true of Ann.
I would disagree with that. Ann's vocal timbre had changed quite a bit- her range is still there for sure, the the tone of her voice has aged.

And one person who I am amazed does not have a ravaged voice is Robert Plant and just LOOK at the abuse he has heaped upon his vocal chords throughout the years. I'm surprised the man can still talk much less give amazing vocal performances at his age.
Sorry, babe- Robert Plant's voice is a pale, pale shadow of it's former self. The difference/decline began with In Through the Out Door and has cruised downhill ever since.

[markolas]

Wow- the post that Ryan made was infuriating enough to warrant SIX mad emoticons?? Geez, I wonder what calling Stevie a fat, old, washed up goat would get?

A couple of busted kneecaps, probably. :nod: :lol:

[The Tower]

A couple of busted kneecaps, probably. :nod: :lol:
Well, then I won't call Stevie that, cuz I need my knees in good condition! ;)

[gldstwmn]

Now that Stevie is clean and sober and has been for a very long time, from the late 90’s to now,

In program terms, she is neither.

[gldstwmn]

Regarding old footage, I'm still on "Ebony Eyes" from Cal Jam II. She looks so great and the smile on her face is just pure rapture. She really looks happy in that one.

It's one of my favorite performances.


It's odd that she has her hands clenched into fists. Anyone else think that looks kinda strange?

Yeah, I noticed that. She's tense there.

[gldstwmn]

And one person who I am amazed does not have a ravaged voice is Robert Plant and just LOOK at the abuse he has heaped upon his vocal chords throughout the years. I'm surprised the man can still talk much less give amazing vocal performances at his age.

He dodges most of his high notes. And he gets a lot of help from his sound guy. I don't think Robert's voice sounds that great anymore.

[BombaySapphire3]

In program terms, she is neither.
Well if her only addiction was Cocaine and Klonopin she has been clean I presume.I'm not 100% sure how NA works so is having a shot of tequila or a glass of wine considered a relapse?I'm not certain what her weed habits are either but I'd guess she still imbibes.

[cliffdweller]

He dodges most of his high notes. And he gets a lot of help from his sound guy. I don't think Robert's voice sounds that great anymore.

I saw him live last year and he was amazing, so I'd have to disagree. Of courrse he's nowhere near where he used to be, but considering all the stress he's put his voice through, it's quite amazing that he can still sing well.

[cliffdweller]

I would disagree with that. Ann's vocal timbre had changed quite a bit- her range is still there for sure, the the tone of her voice has aged.

Well sure, but it's not as marked a difference as Stevie's. Ann still sounds like Ann from the 70's, perhaps a few shades off from aging, but not much. Imo, Stevie's voice sounds NOTHING like it did in the 70's. The difference is like night and day. That was the point I was mainly making :angel:.

And as far as Stevie's voice not being the same caliber as Ann's...you're right. The point I was trying to make, is that both women wailed like banshees back in their younger years, yet, one came out sounding much better than the other in her later years. Perhaps Ann's voice is just naturally stronger, or maybe she took better care of it, I don't know. All I know is, Stevie's voice sounds like a, as you say, "pale shadow of its former self." She's still got it, but boy, some of the live stuff from the past couple of years is not a good testament to her vocal ability. She's really more off key than people realize I think.

[aleuzzi]

I didnt know **** when I was 17... Still dont.:lol: And I'm damn near 35 now...:eek:


I'm 35 now and know next-to-nothing. David. I think I know less than I did when I was 21!:laugh:

[aleuzzi]

I recently got DVD of a '75 FM concert in Largo and '77 Japan concert/Rosebud film. Which I'm sure you've all seen a million times, but brand new to me (except for the Rhiannon clip).

I notice a remarkable change in Stevie between the '75 and '77 performances. In '75, she is wearing pants, seems a bit awkward onstage, and her moves are rather hippiesh. I love her in this video!

In '77, she seems to have fully developed her "persona", with the skirts, spins, spacey moves, and she is totally confident.

Also, as much as I love current Stevie, watching the '05 Las Vegas show after seeing these performances is rather :eek:



I think it's cool that you and I got the dvds at the same time and posted something re: the "75 Stevie" almost simultaneously! I did mine on the Rumors link. Maybe I should have done it on here!

[The Tower]

Well sure, but it's not as marked a difference as Stevie's. Ann still sounds like Ann from the 70's, perhaps a few shades off from aging, but not much. Imo, Stevie's voice sounds NOTHING like it did in the 70's. The difference is like night and day. That was the point I was mainly making :angel:.
Ann's voice actually got better with age. She was at the top of her form between '84 and '90- she's only a shade off of that now. I think it's sad that we don't have the Stevie voice from that era anymore.

[BlackWidow]

I understood what you meant in your initial post Rick... And with what you are comparing the old footage to, you are right... The first night in Vegas WAS a little stiff and uninspired, but it's the first night... a little nervy I suppose. She loosened up as the week and eventual tour went on.
I was at opening night in Vegas..in all fairness..it was NOT a good show!

[JWS]

I recently got DVD of a '75 FM concert in Largo and '77 Japan concert/Rosebud film. Which I'm sure you've all seen a million times, but brand new to me (except for the Rhiannon clip).

I notice a remarkable change in Stevie between the '75 and '77 performances. In '75, she is wearing pants, seems a bit awkward onstage, and her moves are rather hippiesh. I love her in this video!

In '77, she seems to have fully developed her "persona", with the skirts, spins, spacey moves, and she is totally confident.

Also, as much as I love current Stevie, watching the '05 Las Vegas show after seeing these performances is rather :eek:

Ricky..please help. I've been looking for '75-'77 era FM video/dvd and haven't found anything on Amazon or similar prior to '82 Mirage. Where did you get these DVD's?

[Moony]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::distress: :eek:
Everybody run, it's mega-chiffonhead.

[MacMan]

Ricky..please help. I've been looking for '75-'77 era FM video/dvd and haven't found anything on Amazon or similar prior to '82 Mirage. Where did you get these DVD's?

You can still download them here: http://www.throwndown-videos.net/bittorrents/torrents.php

Artist: Fleetwood Mac
Title: Japan 77 and Largo 75

1975 Largo, MD 1:00:38

Intro/Get Like You Used to Be
Station Man
Spare Me A Little
Rhiannon
Why
So Afraid
Oh Well
Green Manalishi
World Turning/Mick’s drum solo
Blue Letter
Hypnotized

Japan 12/05/77 Young Music Special 45:19

Oh Well
Rhiannon
Over My Head
Go Your Own Way
World Turning
Blue Letter
The Chain
Songbird

[Rickypt]

I think it's cool that you and I got the dvds at the same time and posted something re: the "75 Stevie" almost simultaneously! I did mine on the Rumors link. Maybe I should have done it on here!

I should have a look! I never venture out of here and chitty chat because I don't have much to say about the other band members.

Although I loved Stevie's line in Rosebud where she says something like "Lindsey wears a kimono, I wear a Halloween costume, Christine looks like she's going to Catholic confirmation, Mick is going to a Renaissance fair, and John's going to the beach".

I thought it was hilarious. :]

[gldstwmn]

Well if her only addiction was Cocaine and Klonopin she has been clean I presume.I'm not 100% sure how NA works so is having a shot of tequila or a glass of wine considered a relapse?I'm not certain what her weed habits are either but I'd guess she still imbibes.

Any use of any substances including weed and alcohol would not be considered clean and sober.

[gldstwmn]

I saw him live last year and he was amazing, so I'd have to disagree. Of courrse he's nowhere near where he used to be, but considering all the stress he's put his voice through, it's quite amazing that he can still sing well.

He was on The Late Late show a few weeks back and saing Going To California. He dodged most of the high notes and when he did hit them there was a lot of reverb. He sounded better than the last time I saw him. He looks really good too.

[dissention]

Rick, what are you saying about Stevie'sperformance being :eek: !!! Let's see what kind of rocker you are at the age of 57!!! How dare you pass judgement like that, and you call yourself a fan? You should be thrilled that she is still out there Rockin' her heart out for us, her devoted and eternally grateful fans!!!


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Rocking her heart out, my ass. I've seen geriatrics exert more energy by attempting to slide a bedpan beneath themselves.

[dissention]

There really isn't any singer out there that is really in Ann's league.

I think Cyndi Lauper is, but that's me. Not only is her voice as well-preserved and powerful as Ann's, she's a better singer now than she ever was before.

[The Tower]

I think Cyndi Lauper is, but that's me. Not only is her voice as well-preserved and powerful as Ann's, she's a better singer now than she ever was before.
Yes, Cyndi is a phenomenal vocalist. I guess Cyndi and Pat Benetar would be in the same realm as Ann, although Ann is the better of the three.

[dissention]

Yes, Cyndi is a phenomenal vocalist.

I get chills listening to her lately. Her voice hasn't deteriorated one bit. If anything, it's become more powerful than ever before and she hits notes that demonstrate how obsessive she must be about taking care of herself. ****ing amazing.

I guess Cyndi and Pat Benetar would be in the same realm as Ann, although Ann is the better of the three.

That's personal preference, babe. :laugh: Though the three of them are all nearly perfect.

[markolas]

That's personal preference, babe. :laugh:

Indeed. Pat Benatar has always annoyed me, for some reason.

[The Tower]

Indeed. Pat Benatar has always annoyed me, for some reason.
It's the headbands and the cheezy music and the shimmying from the "Love is a Battlefield" video... :nod:

[Rickypt]

I get chills listening to her lately. Her voice hasn't deteriorated one bit. If anything, it's become more powerful than ever before and she hits notes that demonstrate how obsessive she must be about taking care of herself. ****ing amazing.

Body Acoustic gives me nonstop goosebumps.

I saw Pat Benatar on some VH1 concert a year or two ago (I think she did a duet with Lisa Marie Presley?) and she didn't sound very good at all. She didn't hit any high notes on Heartbreaker.

[David]

Japan 12/05/77 Young Music Special 45:19

Oh Well
Rhiannon
Over My Head
Go Your Own Way
World Turning
Blue Letter
The Chain
SongbirdWhy the hell didn't 'Monday Morning' get upgraded along with the rest of the show?

[dissention]

Indeed. Pat Benatar has always annoyed me, for some reason.

I love Pat. :laugh: That little thing has a marvelous voice.

[ontheEdgeof17]

It's the headbands and the cheezy music and the shimmying from the "Love is a Battlefield" video... :nod:

....and that all her songs sound the same? :shrug:

[GODDESS6]

I love Pat. :laugh: That little thing has a marvelous voice.
aaahhhh someone elso who loves pat, i thinks she is great & has a phenomenal voice~

[JWS]

You can still download them here: http://www.throwndown-videos.net/bittorrents/torrents.php

Artist: Fleetwood Mac
Title: Japan 77 and Largo 75

1975 Largo, MD 1:00:38

Intro/Get Like You Used to Be
Station Man
Spare Me A Little
Rhiannon
Why
So Afraid
Oh Well
Green Manalishi
World Turning/Mick’s drum solo
Blue Letter
Hypnotized

Japan 12/05/77 Young Music Special 45:19

Oh Well
Rhiannon
Over My Head
Go Your Own Way
World Turning
Blue Letter
The Chain
Songbird

Thanks very much for your response and this information. I was hoping I could just purchase these somewhere. Unfortunately, I'm not equipped to download videos or music right now. Looking to upgrade to a new computer soon.

[markolas]

It's the headbands and the cheezy music and the shimmying from the "Love is a Battlefield" video... :nod:

That's part of it, but her voice gets on my nerves, too. :D

[Rickypt]

Thanks very much for your response and this information. I was hoping I could just purchase these somewhere. Unfortunately, I'm not equipped to download videos or music right now. Looking to upgrade to a new computer soon.

I'll PM you, JWS.

[amber]

I love Pat. :laugh: That little thing has a marvelous voice.
That's 'cause it stings when Pat slaps your ass. At least that's why I love her.
:woohoo:
That's what her voice reminds me of...I love it. She wails.

[sparky]

That's 'cause it stings when Pat slaps your ass.

Yeah, Mark. It stings. Come on, I get the idea you might like that.

[amber]

Yeah, Mark. It stings. Come on, I get the idea you might like that.

er...I said "that's why I love her" and "that's what her voice reminds me of - I love it".

So what gave you that idea, Lou?

[sparky]

er...I said "that's why I love her" and "that's what her voice reminds me of - I love it".

So what gave you that idea, Lou?

It is something I read between Mark's lines, Frank.

[amber]

It is something I read between Mark's lines, Frank.

You're brill, I swear.

[David]

I love Pat. :laugh: That little thing has a marvelous voice.I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.

[BombaySapphire3]

I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.
Yep everything he said .I was the right (or maybe the wrong:shrug: ) age at the time of the peak of Benatar's popularity to be deluged with her image then .It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .I was still young enough then to be a blindly loyal Nicksian devotee and frankly in the early 1980s it was still easy to think that Nicks could do no wrong musically because at that point she really hadn't.I remember being sickened when at one of those American music awards shows Pat beat Stevie out for an award .silly now I know but I thought she was undeserving of it and her Grammys ,just the aural equivalent of nails on the chalkboard.

[amber]

She still has a really good voice. I'm glad I'm younger, otherwise I might have missed out on liking Pat B. :distress: Luckily, I never saw her image or anything, only heard the songs and liked them. Of course Stevie should still have won. Pat isn't that good.

[sparky]

Yep everything he said .I was the right (or maybe the wrong:shrug: ) age at the time of the peak of Benatar's popularity to be deluged with her image then .It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .I was still young enough then to be a blindly loyal Nicksian devotee and frankly in the early 1980s it was still easy to think that Nicks could do no wrong musically because at that point she really hadn't. I remember being sickened when at one of those American music awards shows Pat beat Stevie out for an award .silly now I know but I thought she was undeserving of it and her Grammys ,just the aural equivalent of nails on the chalkboard.

I was the same age too, and at the time I was really pissed that Pat won awards over Stevie. Nonetheless, I was a huge Pat fan as well. It goes without saying that Pat's image, which was based on bitch goddesses straight out of 1950's comic books, was a little annoying. Evidently, it was less annoying to critics and voters of those bodies than Stevie's image, which was that of an airhead, wanna be witch straight out of a fairy tale.
At the time, many people thought Stevie was just an act, and certainly members of the recording industry, who no doubt knew about how instrumental Lindsey and others had been in the creation of her songs, thought she was a hack with good collaborators. Technically, Benatar's voice was a wonder, in studio and live. Her reputation as a singer at the time was unrivaled, whereas Stevie was cancelling concerts due to intoxication, and turning in performances that were at times incoherent and humiliating to any sober witness to them. Let us not forget that as early as the White Winged Dove tour, she was dropping keys, dodging high notes, and coked out of her gourd. The same cannot be said of Pat Benatar. Music industry insiders knew of what was going on at the beginning of this long decline way before us fans knew anything. LA is a very small town, folks.

As I look back, I think Stevie should have won a grammy for Edge of 17, in spite of the overwhelming presence of backup singers. Nonetheless, I think she had done herself in among industry insiders. Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country. Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.

[elie]

Hi! As I have already said in another thread, I have never had the chance to see Stevie performing in the early days because it is simply impossible to get this kind of footage here and I don't know my way around the internet very well. I downloaded a short GDW clip from an 1979 tour (I think) but the quality was not very good and I could not hear and see very clearly. As far as the 77 -today comparison goes, I would say that I like Stevie now, but it is just different. And I would be extremely surprised if her voice sounded the same as 30 years ago - now that would be spooky. When I listen to her current live recordings, I sometimes unintentionally think of Marianne Faithfull. The voice-destruction from the 60's to today is similar (darker, hoarse voice).

Any use of any substances including weed and alcohol would not be considered clean and sober.

I was having similar thoughts the other day. I don't have personal experiences with drugs, but when I hear that a certain rock singer (like Stevie) is clean and sober today, I have my doubts about what this actually means. I might be wrong about that, but how can someone who has openly used hard drugs for so long, and what's more, as a way to gain more confidence on stage (correct me if I am wrong -I have read that one of the reasons Stevie started to use coke is that she had stage fright) stay away from drugs completely?? My understanding is that - at least in some cases and I have no clue if that's the case here- the drug use goes on, it is just more moderate when they grow older/and have gone into rehab/ and realised that they cannot go on using as much as they used to.

Sorry for the long post:o !

[BombaySapphire3]

I was the same age too, and at the time I was really pissed that Pat won awards over Stevie. Nonetheless, I was a huge Pat fan as well. It goes without saying that Pat's image, which was based on bitch goddesses straight out of 1950's comic books, was a little annoying. Evidently, it was less annoying to critics and voters of those bodies than Stevie's image, which was that of an airhead, wanna be witch straight out of a fairy tale.
At the time, many people thought Stevie was just an act, and certainly members of the recording industry, who no doubt knew about how instrumental Lindsey and others had been in the creation of her songs, thought she was a hack with good collaborators. Technically, Benatar's voice was a wonder, in studio and live. Her reputation as a singer at the time was unrivaled, whereas Stevie was cancelling concerts due to intoxication, and turning in performances that were at times incoherent and humiliating to any sober witness to them. Let us not forget that as early as the White Winged Dove tour, she was dropping keys, dodging high notes, and coked out of her gourd. The same cannot be said of Pat Benatar. Music industry insiders knew of what was going on at the beginning of this long decline way before us fans knew anything. LA is a very small town, folks.

As I look back, I think Stevie should have won a grammy for Edge of 17, in spite of the overwhelming presence of backup singers. Nonetheless, I think she had done herself in among industry insiders. Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country. Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.
Actually alot of us hardcore fans were clued into Stevie's hedonistic ways and flaky concert cancelling antics even then .I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show .The woman at the Head shop were I bought the tickets said it was because she was 'too coked out ' and I had no problem believing it.However in the studio Stevie's work had been quite prisitine up to this point and that is what I was referring to as 'musically.In a few years that would all change too. Sure Pat was professional but I wanted to be in love with a real Rock Star and that Stevie was beyond a shadow of a doubt.Sure some of my animosity toward Pat was because I worshipped La Nicks and Pat was her main competition then but it was also that her image was annoying in general .I had no problem enjoying Heart and Ronstadt a few years earlier while idolizing Nicks. There isn't much I wouldn't give now to see one of those sloppy coke fueled performances again .I treasure the memories of the ones I did see.It is interesting to see whom history has acquitted though. I would have to say at this point in time and for the last decade or so that Stevie's legacy looms far above Pat's

[BlackWidow]

Actually alot of us hardcore fans were clued into Stevie's hedonistic ways and flaky concert cancelling antics even then .I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show .The woman at the Head shop were I bought the tickets said it was because she was 'too coked out ' and I had no problem believing it.However in the studio Stevie's work had been quite prisitine up to this point and that is what I was referring to as 'musically.In a few years that would all change too. Sure Pat was professional but I wanted to be in love with a real Rock Star and that Stevie was beyond a shadow of a doubt.Sure some of my animosity toward Pat was because I worshipped La Nicks and Pat was her main competition then but it was also that her image was annoying in general .I had no problem enjoying Heart and Ronstadt a few years earlier while idolizing Nicks. There isn't much I wouldn't give now to see one of those sloppy coke fueled performances again .I treasure the memories of the ones I did see.It is interesting to see whom history has acquitted though. I would have to say at this point in time and for the last decade or so that Stevie's legacy looms far above Pat's
I completely agree!!!!!!!

[jannieC]

aaahhhh someone elso who loves pat, i thinks she is great & has a phenomenal voice~

Me too. I hated the whole Love is a Battlefield thing, but Hell is for Children, You Better Run, Shadow of the Night, Promises in the Dark, etc...in-credible. I could go on and on. I don't think she's nearly as interesting as Stevie, and her persona never really did much for me. But I was a teenager when I got interested in Pat Benatar, and her voice blew me away. She was quite enthuiastic on stage, too. My brother-in-law was at a concert where she passed out. She was all over the damn place!

[Rickypt]

Me too. I hated the whole Love is a Battlefield thing, but Hell is for Children, You Better Run, Shadow of the Night, Promises in the Dark, etc...in-credible.

Yes, and Wuthering Heights, We Live For Live, Heartbreaker for me.

My mom wouldn't let me see Pat in concert because she thought Pat was a "tart". I would've loved to have seen her in her heyday.

Still, she's nowhere Stevie or Ann Wilson in my opinion.

[chiliD]

I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.


LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!

Time to pull back the curtains & let the sun in your apt, there boy.

[cliffdweller]

It's the headbands and the cheezy music and the shimmying from the "Love is a Battlefield" video... :nod:


Love that video!

[cliffdweller]

LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!

Time to pull back the curtains & let the sun in your apt, there boy.


What he said, except ain't nothin' wrong with Joan Jett. She still I rocks, I saw her two years ago at SXSW and it was great.

Anyway, David, I'd say Pat Benatar has held up much better than Lita Ford. I only remember two songs by Lita: the Ozzy duet and Kiss Me Deadly. What else has she done (solo) and how can you EVEN compare her "career" to Pat's prolific catalogue?? :shrug:

Anyhoo, corporate or no corporate Pat rocks my socks off with that voice of hers. You know she's a trained operatic singer...and I think it shows in the power and intensity of her beautiful voice.

[markolas]

Lita Ford?? You guys have some ****ty taste in music. :eek: :p :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Lita Ford?? You guys have some ****ty taste in music. :eek: :p :laugh:

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David :shrug:.

[markolas]

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David :shrug:.

Well, I don't really get Pat Benatar, either, but then again, I think I'm the only Ledgie who doesn't really listen to all this hard rock stuff.

[dissention]

It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .

Oh, it was totally calculated, kind of like Stevie's persona. Homegirl went from a shag haircut & flair jeans to chiffon & top hats in a matter of months. Organic is not what I'd call it. Calculated is. It was the schtick she adopted, though it was much, much more interesting than Pat's. Back then, she would give interviews where she spoke about the persona she adopts onstage actually being the way she is in real life. More recently, she's admitted to it being all an act. Looking at how her career progressed over the years, one can see just how heavily she pushed it all as the years wore on. Whereas she wrote beautiful songs about dreams and Welsh witches early on, she eventually descended into babbling about "the moon and her sisters" & any old thing that would play up her image, no matter how silly and over the top it was.

Bring on the onslaught of fierce disagreement, I'm ready.

[David]

Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country.You're exaggerating by a country mile, spark.
Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.I have never doubted her professionalism. As for her much-touted operatic training (one of her initial marketing points), I wouldn't doubt that, either. But I've been listening to opera singers my whole life, & I find nothing of the opera in Pat's vocal style--except in the most overtly negative sense of the term "operatic": shrieking harpies & Screeching Mimis. All in all, Pat was a pretty pedestrian tough cookie persona with "gutsy" vocals & songs whose only effect on rock history & life was a commercial effect, a pop culture Five-Year Plan.

The other thing is, I am certainly not counterbalancing Stevie with Pat Benatar. My original contradistinction was with a certain thread in Fleetwood Mac's style that was an identifiable & deliberate attempt to avoid ubiquitous approaches to pop--both in the studio & onstage. So I want to let my inverse parallel stand, but it has nothing to do with Stevie Nicks as a soloist (who was closer to Pat Benatar in terms of approach than to Fleetwood Mac at its bravest).

I'm sorry, guys. Never liked Benatar. Please don't kill me!!

EDIT: Oops. I do want to add that in all the interviews I've seen of Pat, she comes across as very intelligent, mature & gracious. In short, a nice gal.

[dissention]

I'm sorry, guys. Never liked Benatar. Please don't kill me!!

You'll have to plead better than that. I'm just itching to stone you over it. :woohoo:

Pat's nothing truly special, I just think her songs are fun and she's got a great voice to my ears. I'm sure if I grew up hearing and seeing her in her heyday, I might have a different view on her, but as it stands, I find listening to her once in awhile to be quite satisfying.

[dissention]

EDIT: Oops. I do want to add that in all the interviews I've seen of Pat, she comes across as very intelligent, mature & gracious. In short, a nice gal.

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.

[David]

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David :shrug:.I never said or implied Lita Ford was any better with her music than Pat Benatar was with hers (I don't think either one of them created anything of artistic value). My point was that, back in 1980, Lita Ford was widely considered a more authentic tough rock chick with a REAL edge than Benatar was.

What does any of that have to do with musical taste? Come on, you guys. If people are going to respond to other posts, they should read them with at least some care.

[David]

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.Really? How awful. This is the girl who went on the '94/'95 Fleetwood Mac tour for a time, right? the girl who John McVie said used to practice singing Rhiannon at a makeshift mic.

Or am I thinking of Molly?

[David]

LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!No self-respecting rock fan in 1980 thought much of Pat Benatar, whereas quite a few of them were fans of Lita Ford, Chrissie Hynde & Patti Smith (ladies who, incidentally, all outhailed Ann Wilson, as well). All you have to do is read Lester Bangs, Robert Christgau & Greil Marcus.

[David]

When I listen to her current live recordings, I sometimes unintentionally think of Marianne Faithfull.That's interesting because one of the short magazine reviews of the 1983 "Fleetwood Mac In Concert" video compared Stevie to Marianne Faithfull in terms of ragged intensity & let-fly emotionalism.

[dissention]

No self-respecting rock fan in 1980 thought much of Pat Benatar, whereas quite a few of them were fans of Lita Ford, Chrissie Hynde & Patti Smith (ladies who, incidentally, all outhailed Ann Wilson, as well). All you have to do is read Lester Bangs, Robert Christgau & Greil Marcus.

Bangs' book on Blondie is one of my most treasured possessions. What a howler that schizophrenic read is.

[David]

I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show.It's amazing that here was a scheduled concert, practically in my backyard, which I knew nothing about at the time. Given that, I'm glad she canceled. I saw the shows in L.A. & the show in Oakland, & if this San Diego gig had happened, I would be seriously annoyed today.

[chiliD]

In short, a nice gal.


Now you're baggin' on her height?!? :lol:

[Rickypt]

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.

She was indeed annoying, as are nearly all reality people. I always thought Pat and Neil seemed like a great couple and good parents, though, taking their daughter on the road with them and only doing summer tours so they could have a relatively normal life during the school year.

[David]

Pat's nothing truly special, I just think her songs are fun and she's got a great voice to my ears. I'm sure if I grew up hearing and seeing her in her heyday, I might have a different view on her, but as it stands, I find listening to her once in awhile to be quite satisfying.Well, on the other hand, I haven't listened to Benatar in fifteen or twenty years--when I saw Fleetwood in '94 & '95 in Konocti, they didn't co-bill with Benatar or REO.

So maybe (& I do mean maybe) if I listened to some Benatar today, I might get a kick out of it. I'd certainly prefer it to today's rapping & hip-hopping.

[David]

Now you're baggin' on her height?!? :lol:Remember how often the word "pixie" cropped up in discussions or reviews of Benatar back then?

What is she? 4-foot-8 or sumpin?

Her body back then ... she'd have made an excellent figure skater.

[cliffdweller]

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.


That's exactly what I was thinking! They (Pat and Neil) don't seem to be the types of people who would raise such a daughter, but stranger things have happened I guess. Still, what a little brat! :laugh:

[skcin]

As far as the 77 -today comparison goes, I would say that I like Stevie now, but it is just different.


You just summed it up perfectly in that one sentence, sweetie. :nod: It's different, and it's everyone's personal opinion which is better. I really don't think you can honestly compare - it's apples & oranges. My opinion tends to vary, depending on specific songs & performances rather than generalizing time frames. For example, I much prefer Rosebud Rhiannon over The Dance Rhiannon, but I prefer B&tB from Vegas much more than the live performances that I've personally heard from '91 tour. :shrug: So I can't really say "oh, I think Stevie is so dull now compared to 30 years ago" because that statement does not hold true for all songs/performances/shows that I've hgeard/seen/been to.


Oh, it was totally calculated, kind of like Stevie's persona. Homegirl went from a shag haircut & flair jeans to chiffon & top hats in a matter of months. Organic is not what I'd call it. Calculated is. It was the schtick she adopted, though it was much, much more interesting than Pat's. Back then, she would give interviews where she spoke about the persona she adopts onstage actually being the way she is in real life. More recently, she's admitted to it being all an act. Looking at how her career progressed over the years, one can see just how heavily she pushed it all as the years wore on. Whereas she wrote beautiful songs about dreams and Welsh witches early on, she eventually descended into babbling about "the moon and her sisters" & any old thing that would play up her image, no matter how silly and over the top it was.

Bring on the onslaught of fierce disagreement, I'm ready.


I can't really disagree with what you wrote. Except to say that The Nightmare is NOT babbling, you bastard. :mad:

:lol:

I know what you're saying. But don't you think she kept that persona going because that's what the fans wanted? They wanted her to be weird & spooky & witchy & mysitcal & a little flaky. :shrug: That's what was expected from her - by her fans, the record company, everyone around her. So that's what she did, for better or worse.

[cliffdweller]

I never said or implied Lita Ford was any better with her music than Pat Benatar was with hers

Oh, I thought you DID imply. Sorry, my mistake.

[cliffdweller]

I know what you're saying. But don't you think she kept that persona going because that's what the fans wanted? They wanted her to be weird & spooky & witchy & mysitcal & a little flaky. :shrug: That's what was expected from her - by her fans, the record company, everyone around her. So that's what she did, for better or worse.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have $.02 anyway. I don't think Stevie does things solely for the fans. I mean, it's partly that I guess, but I tend to think that she does what she does mainly because that's what SHE wants to do. Otherwise, she'd be wearing the platform boots every night, switch up that damn stage wardrobe, and revamp her setlist! :nod:

[dissention]

I can't really disagree with what you wrote. Except to say that The Nightmare is NOT babbling, you bastard. :mad:

:lol:

I was being kind, you witch. :laugh:

I know what you're saying. But don't you think she kept that persona going because that's what the fans wanted? They wanted her to be weird & spooky & witchy & mysitcal & a little flaky. :shrug: That's what was expected from her - by her fans, the record company, everyone around her. So that's what she did, for better or worse.

Yes, most definitely. Doesn't make it any less calculated, though. If anything, it makes it even moreso. She found what worked for her and made her the dough, so she amped it up as the years progressed. 'Twas nothing organic about it.

[JazmenFlowers]

Yes, most definitely. Doesn't make it any less calculated, though. If anything, it makes it even moreso. She found what worked for her and made her the dough, so she amped it up as the years progressed. 'Twas nothing organic about it.
I see what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it was as contrived as you make it seem.

As for Stevie of yore versus Stevie of today, I agree with Paula, there are different times when I go back and forth. I think Stevie is as fabulous today as she was in the 70's, but I think it's just different.

[cliffdweller]

As for Stevie of yore versus Stevie of today, I agree with Paula, there are different times when I go back and forth. I think Stevie is as fabulous today as she was in the 70's, but I think it's just different.

Stevie in '97 was fabulous but she continues to drop off vocally as the years progress. She can rise to the occassion if she wants to, but I wonder sometimes how invested she is in trying to knock our socks off these days. I don't know, I didn't see the Vegas shows so :shrug:.

[skcin]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have $.02 anyway. I don't think Stevie does things solely for the fans. I mean, it's partly that I guess, but I tend to think that she does what she does mainly because that's what SHE wants to do. Otherwise, she'd be wearing the platform boots every night, switch up that damn stage wardrobe, and revamp her setlist! :nod:


No, not soley for the fans - for everyone. I think she herself bought into it, she kind of "became" this person even though it started off as an act. I'm sure the dope helped that along - staying in this little fantasy world. And I don't think while she was writing that she said to herself, "hmmm, I'd better stick something magical in here," I think after a while it was more of an unconscious thing.

[JazmenFlowers]

Stevie in '97 was fabulous but she continues to drop off vocally as the years progress. She can rise to the occassion if she wants to, but I wonder sometimes how invested she is in trying to knock our socks off these days. I don't know, I didn't see the Vegas shows so :shrug:.
I can see that. And I don't disagree with you either. Sometimes, I'm sad for her because I feel like she's scared to try to do it or she's not sure how to capture that "feeling" again. Vegas totally secured my belief in Stevie. If ever I doubted her, I never, EVER will again. Whether she's stomping in platform boots, wailing out the end of Rhiannon and dancing with the tambo or not, she is the queen of rock. Hell, she's done it, she gave the world what, 10-15 years of that...I'm ok with having the Stevie of today; yeah, I'd like to relive those years, but I accept it and still throw the bitch mad props.

she's made it in this business, continues to record (albeit rarely) and tour, sold millions, and touched people's lives and hearts...and I can't ask for more than what she's already given

[JazmenFlowers]

No, not soley for the fans - for everyone. I think she herself bought into it, she kind of "became" this person even though it started off as an act. I'm sure the dope helped that along - staying in this little fantasy world. And I don't think while she was writing that she said to herself, "hmmm, I'd better stick something magical in here," I think after a while it was more of an unconscious thing.
I think so too...it happens to everyone in some form or another. You start doing something, maybe not totally of your own organic need, and before you know it, you're comfortable and actually enjoy it...it becomes a part of you

[skcin]

Stevie in '97 was fabulous but she continues to drop off vocally as the years progress. She can rise to the occassion if she wants to, but I wonder sometimes how invested she is in trying to knock our socks off these days. I don't know, I didn't see the Vegas shows so :shrug:.


It blows me away to hear how strong she was vocally on The Dance DVD compared to now. Blows. Me. Away. Same for the Enchanted tour. Sheebus.

I think in general, she is not as strong now, I notice her straining during some songs at some shows. But I think some shows have been spectacular since The Dance era (The AHI benefits, esp '00 when she did Gypsy accoustically & The Difficult Kind with Sheryl; L.A. 7/26/05 also comes to mind.)

As far as Vegas goes, it was not vocally superb all night long at the shows I went to (opening night & the night after), but B&tB showed that she still has it, IMO. I've never felt what I felt that first night, when she came out & opened her mouth & started singing that song, at ANY Stevie or Mac shows I've attended before or since.

Wow - that didn't make any sense, and I've tried rewriting that sentence 3 times. :laugh: Sorry. Hope you get my drift.

[JazmenFlowers]

I've never felt what I felt that first night, when she came out & opened her mouth & started singing that song, at ANY Stevie or Mac shows I've attended before or since.
holla

I'm wit u girl

[skcin]

holla

I'm wit u girl

:nod:

I know it sounds cheesy, or cliche, or silly, but I don't give a damn. I will never, ever, forget that moment as long as I live. Never.

[cliffdweller]

It blows me away to hear how strong she was vocally on The Dance DVD compared to now. Blows. Me. Away. Same for the Enchanted tour. Sheebus.

I think in general, she is not as strong now, I notice her straining during some songs at some shows. But I think some shows have been spectacular since The Dance era (The AHI benefits, esp '00 when she did Gypsy accoustically & The Difficult Kind with Sheryl; L.A. 7/26/05 also comes to mind.)

As far as Vegas goes, it was not vocally superb all night long at the shows I went to (opening night & the night after), but B&tB showed that she still has it, IMO. I've never felt what I felt that first night, when she came out & opened her mouth & started singing that song, at ANY Stevie or Mac shows I've attended before or since.

Wow - that didn't make any sense, and I've tried rewriting that sentence 3 times. :laugh: Sorry. Hope you get my drift.

Made perfect sense! I'm sorry I didn't get to go to Vegas :distress:
It sounds like you had an out of body experience! :laugh:

[amber]

:nod:

I know it sounds cheesy, or cliche, or silly, but I don't give a damn. I will never, ever, forget that moment as long as I live. Never.

Me neither. The silence (of course it was intense silence). And then my god that performance.
The awed silence is what really stamped it, though.

[JazmenFlowers]

Made perfect sense! I'm sorry I didn't get to go to Vegas :distress:
It sounds like you had an out of body experience! :laugh:
I totally did...as I watched the film on the screens in slow motion - just as Beauty is running down the hall with the candles in her hands and Stevie singing...that's the feeling I want just before I die...(urm, that's morbid)

[BombaySapphire3]

Yes, and Wuthering Heights, We Live For Live, Heartbreaker for me.

My mom wouldn't let me see Pat in concert because she thought Pat was a "tart". I would've loved to have seen her in her heyday.

Still, she's nowhere Stevie or Ann Wilson in my opinion.
Benatar's awful butchering of Kate Bush's sublime Wuthering Heights was yet another reason for disdain . She sucked the psychology Kate had down of Katherine Earnshaw right out of the song. Kind of like if Celine Dion covered Rhiannon.

[The Tower]

I can't really disagree with what you wrote. Except to say that The Nightmare is NOT babbling, you bastard. :mad:
You're right, Paula- "The Nightmare" is incoherent babbling....

I know it sounds cheesy, or cliche, or silly, but I don't give a damn. I will never, ever, forget that moment as long as I live. Never.
Me neither. Never, ever. I was just telling Jason the other day that I've only had three things that have truly, deeply affected me out of my jaded haze- and this performance was one of them.

Me neither. The silence (of course it was intense silence). And then my god that performance.
It was really amazing how hard it hit the audience. I remember just standing there and seeing the people in front of me in stunned, silent awe- just like I was.

[The Tower]

Kind of like if Celine Dion covered Rhiannon.
Could you imagine that?!?!?!?! Please lawd, somebody plant this idea in her head. That trainwreck is something that I must hear!

[JazmenFlowers]

speaking of Pat...she's 53 today

[cliffdweller]

Could you imagine that?!?!?!?! Please lawd, somebody plant this idea in her head. That trainwreck is something that I must hear!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

Could you imagine that?!?!?!?! Please lawd, somebody plant this idea in her head. That trainwreck is something that I must hear!
don't even put that out there in the universe

[sparky]

You're exaggerating by a country mile, spark.

Well, as a teenager, I knew people in OREGON who had claimed to have sold her drugs, and the DJ's in my town, with whom I talked a lot, all told me stories they had heard from their connections in the industry. The stories were cool to me at the time, actually. But as I look back, they weren't flattering. She cancelled a show in Protland in 83 because she was hungover. If I was hearing these stories in Protland, of all places, I suspect many music insiders in LA knew way more than I did.

I have never doubted her professionalism. As for her much-touted operatic training (one of her initial marketing points), I wouldn't doubt that, either.

I don't think she is opera caliber, or ever was. But, it was an unusual kind of pedigree to boast about at the time. She certainly sang with a range and control unusual for rock singers at the time.

[amber]

It was really amazing how hard it hit the audience. I remember just standing there and seeing the people in front of me in stunned, silent awe- just like I was.

I was speaking of Tuesday. There was stunned silence when she walked out in that dress, and stunned silence throughout the entire performance. I mean, no dildos yelling "Stevie!!!", no clapping after every single sustained note - it really was intense silence. It was thick with disbelief, shock, and awe.
Not that there wasn't any of that on subsequent nights. :) Tuesday was just...way more intense, sustained silence. But yes, that's a showstopping moment for the decade, whichever night you saw it.

[BlackWidow]

Could you imagine that?!?!?!?! Please lawd, somebody plant this idea in her head. That trainwreck is something that I must hear!
Honey..the trainwreck is Lindsay Lohan "trying" to sing Edge Of 17..that bitch should be SHOT!!!!

[BlackWidow]

I see what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it was as contrived as you make it seem.

As for Stevie of yore versus Stevie of today, I agree with Paula, there are different times when I go back and forth. I think Stevie is as fabulous today as she was in the 70's, but I think it's just different.
She went from being a singer..to an interpreter of her own music..most took the leap with her..others did not.

[BlackWidow]

speaking of Pat...she's 53 today
speaking of Pat..her career died 20 yrs ago......:lol:

[elie]

Well, I don't really get Pat Benatar, either, but then again, I think I'm the only Ledgie who doesn't really listen to all this hard rock stuff.

No, no ! I wanted to write something similar myself! I am not into hard rock at all and I have never been. And I would also say that FM are probably the only band of this so-called soft rock style that I like. When I happen to read which artists are considered kind of similar or of the same style, I realise that I 've never been into any of those other bands. But I guess it's Stevie's persona and style that first drew (?! please correct my english if necessary!:o ) my attention to them.

[skcin]

You're right, Paula- "The Nightmare" is incoherent babbling....




How dare you! I wish I could fling my heart against you in all my wisdom. You bastard. :cool:

[David]

How dare you! I wish I could fling my heart against you in all my wisdom. You bastard. :cool:You can rest secure in the sure knowledge that The Nightmare is a Supreme Stevie Moment, Paula.

Because it is.

[The Tower]

How dare you! I wish I could fling my heart against you in all my wisdom. You bastard. :cool:
:p

You can rest secure in the sure knowledge that The Nightmare is a Supreme Stevie Moment, Paula.

Because it is.
"The Nightmare" is a piece of ****. The lyrics are the worst example of Stevie's non-sensical cut and paste from her journals. The production is embarrassingly dated. The arrangement of the background vocals is jaw dropping. Throw the Chris Nicks writing credit on it with a liberal dusting of cocaine and you've got Stevie Nicks at her worst.

[JazmenFlowers]

:p


"The Nightmare" is a piece of ****. The lyrics are the worst example of Stevie's non-sensical cut and paste from her journals. The production is embarrassingly dated. The arrangement of the background vocals is jaw dropping. Throw the Chris Nicks writing credit on it with a liberal dusting of cocaine and you've got Stevie Nicks at her worst.
really? I can see where you're coming from, but for some reason this song is a guilty pleasure. I love it.

[David]

"The Nightmare" is a piece of ****. The lyrics are the worst example of Stevie's non-sensical cut and paste from her journals. The production is embarrassingly dated. The arrangement of the background vocals is jaw dropping. Throw the Chris Nicks writing credit on it with a liberal dusting of cocaine and you've got Stevie Nicks at her worst.You should sit down at the piano & play it & sing it, & its beauties will flicker & flare & finally blaze up before your eyes.

[The Tower]

You should sit down at the piano & play it & sing it, & its beauties will flicker & flare & finally blaze up before your eyes.
I have the Rock A Little songbook, however....

David, there is no way on earth I could ever sing-

"So about the moon and her sisters
How dare he take them prisoner
Well, if she had flung out her heart against him
Then in all of her wisdom
Oh, well that was a mystery"

Not to mention the rest of it. Oy, the lyrics are baaaaaad.

**** shudder ****

[ontheEdgeof17]

Not to mention the rest of it. Oy, the lyrics are baaaaaad.


The only thing that is bad is your attitude. Now get on that piano bench....play your lil pea-pickin' heart out and pay tribute to the classic that is The Nightmare.

[The Tower]

The only thing that is bad is your attitude. Now get on that piano bench....play your lil pea-pickin' heart out and pay tribute to the classic that is The Nightmare.
Yeah, and then I'll post the audio file of it while I'm at it.......

:rolleyes: :p

[ontheEdgeof17]

Yeah, and then I'll post the audio file of it while I'm at it.......


Can't wait! :wavey:

[BlackWidow]

You'll have to plead better than that. I'm just itching to stone you over it. :woohoo:

Pat's nothing truly special, I just think her songs are fun and she's got a great voice to my ears. I'm sure if I grew up hearing and seeing her in her heyday, I might have a different view on her, but as it stands, I find listening to her once in awhile to be quite satisfying.
Pat Benetar SUCKS!!!!:lol: :lol:

[BlackWidow]

How dare you! I wish I could fling my heart against you in all my wisdom. You bastard. :cool:
"some may never know or share any kind of dream..WHOA!"

[BlackWidow]

:p


"The Nightmare" is a piece of ****. The lyrics are the worst example of Stevie's non-sensical cut and paste from her journals. The production is embarrassingly dated. The arrangement of the background vocals is jaw dropping. Throw the Chris Nicks writing credit on it with a liberal dusting of cocaine and you've got Stevie Nicks at her worst.
Why do you think Jimmy Iovine walked off the project??!!

[dissention]

You should sit down at the piano & play it & sing it, & its beauties will flicker & flare & finally blaze up before your eyes.

Only with the help of hallucinatory substances.

[skcin]

:p


"The Nightmare" is a piece of ****. The lyrics are the worst example of Stevie's non-sensical cut and paste from her journals. The production is embarrassingly dated. The arrangement of the background vocals is jaw dropping. Throw the Chris Nicks writing credit on it with a liberal dusting of cocaine and you've got Stevie Nicks at her worst.


Bite me. :cool:











And where, oh where, is my dear Sapphiresister to help me out here?

[The Tower]

Bite me. :cool:
Interestingly enough, Jyqm started a thread awhile back that basically explains how "The Nightmare" was written:

We need to create our own Stevie song generator!

Now unfortunately, I know nothing about writing computer programs, but if somebody who does wants to help me out on this, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's what we need:

First, we need to compile a list of all the nouns, verbs and adjectives that we want to see in our new Stevie songs. Here are my lists; feel free to add to them:

NOUNS: Stars. Stairs. Gate. Door. Garden. Moon. Love. Heart. Room. Eyes. Song. Angel. Ghost. Everything. Night. Wind. Lady. Woman. Feeling. Universe. Ocean. Poet. Dream. World. Prisoner. Friend. Thing. Crystal. Boots. Wing. Storm. Child. Sister. Gypsy. Queen. Candle. Shadow. Feeling. Freedom. Sea. Mother. Father. Destiny. Day. Mirror. Window. Hand. Light. Something. Castle. Home. Girl. Escape. (Plus the names of various colors, fabrics, birds, precious stones, flowers and seasons.)

VERBS: Love. See. Think. Run. Go. Turn. Leave. Laugh. Shine. Touch. Lose. Have. Take. Promise. Say. Try. Give. Be. Become. Seem. Stay. Tell. Change. Sing. Call. Dream. Haunt. Believe. Stand. Begin. Look. Stare. Walk. Grow. Wonder. Wish. Miss. Sleep. Show. Dance. Stop. Have. Do. (Plus all modal verbs, of course.)

ADJECTIVES: Pretty. Older. Calm. Deadly. Bright. Wrong. Alone. Softest. Frozen. Dark. Good. Wild. (That's all I can come up. Stevie's not really much for adjectives. Again, colors and fabrics can be included here.)

MISCELLANEOUS WORDS AND PHRASES: Well. He says. She says. In love. Baby. Very. Just like. Down. Deep inside. All the way. Real. Honey. Anymore. Right. Still. Ooh.

Okay, so now that we've got our nouns, verbs and adjectives, they just need to be inserted into various grammatical structures, mostly simple declarative statements, but with special emphasis on questions and free-standing prepositional phrases and subordinating conjunctions. Surely there must be a way to create a fairly simple computer program that will do this.

So let's hop to it, people! We'll have this album written in no time!

EDIT: Okay, I'm going to start adding people's suggestions to my original post as they come up. Even if we can't write a computer program, with enough words, we should be able to suss out these songs ourselves.

"The Nightmare" is Stevie's worst example of self-plagiarization and trite cliches.

[gldstwmn]

Yeah, and then I'll post the audio file of it while I'm at it.......

:rolleyes: :p

Doooooo it! :blob2:

[amber]

Interestingly enough, Jyqm started a thread awhile back that basically explains how "The Nightmare" was written:



"The Nightmare" is Stevie's worst example of self-plagiarization and trite cliches.


oooo...I don't like The Nightmare much, and you are a well known RAL hater anyways, but I don't think it could possibly be her worst example of self plagiarism and trite cliches.

I'd also like to remind everyone again that Tower likes "Desert Angel".

[The Tower]

oooo...I don't like The Nightmare much, and you are a well known RAL hater anyways...
"Talk to Me", "HAEWAFY", and "No Spoken Word" are great- the rest is from "not so hot" to "crap".

...but I don't think it could possibly be her worst example of self plagiarism and trite cliches.
What would be your choice for that award?

I'd also like to remind everyone again that Tower likes "Desert Angel".
I'd also like to remind everyone again that Amber likes "Kick It" and "Listen to the Rain".

[JazmenFlowers]

"Talk to Me", "HAEWAFY", and "No Spoken Word" are great- the rest is from "not so hot" to "crap
really?

I think If I Were You and Some Become Strangers are really great.

[sparky]

I'd also like to remind everyone again that Amber likes "Kick It" and "Listen to the Rain".


Ahh Touche !

[The Tower]

really?

I think If I Were You and Some Become Strangers are really great.
"If I Were You" is a decent tune- nothing to write home about. "Some Become Strangers" isn't a strong enough song NOT written by Stevie, so I don't think she should have recorded it.

[skcin]

Interestingly enough, Jyqm started a thread awhile back that basically explains how "The Nightmare" was written:



"The Nightmare" is Stevie's worst example of self-plagiarization and trite cliches.


That's nice. Did you bite me yet? :D

[amber]

Ahh Touche !
That is NOT touche. The only thing that I could like that would match the appallingness of DA is...oh, I dunno....Starshine! Well, you used to be silver! :shocked: :rolleyes:
or maybe...nope, DA is pretty much the worst song ever.
Kick It and Listen to the Rain hardly qualify for touche.

[amber]

really?

I think If I Were You and Some Become Strangers are really great.

No no no! The best songs on RAL are the first four. :cool: The worst song is The Nightmare.


HIT IT!!!!

[The Tower]

That's nice. Did you bite me yet? :D
Look for the teeth marks in your ass.... ;) :p

Kick It and Listen to the Rain hardly qualify for touche.
Yeah, that's it......

Stevie has been known to write some pretty ****ty bridges, however, I think "Kick It" is probably the worst.

"So what is this...when you can
What is this...what about me
What is this...(What is this)
I understand...(I understand)
What is this...I'm lonely...I'm lonely...(I'm lonely)"

I don't really need to present the case against "Listen to the Rain" again, do I? Hello, Josh????

[dissention]

I don't really need to present the case against "Listen to the Rain" again, do I? Hello, Josh????

Hey, and that's good!!

Well, I am overcome!!!!!!!

No, no, NO...

...there's no Beauty and the Beast here!!

You're just an instant flash of light...

...THAT SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINES!

[The Tower]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Her true masterpiece.

Well you're not like anyone else
You're just a song so bad and trite
That bugs and annoys like a pubic louse

[The Tower]

Her true masterpiece.
Yes, her true masterpiece (of ****).

[dissention]

Yes, her true masterpiece (of ****).

Well she didn't know better!!
She's a victim!
Phantom of the Op-er-ahhhhh!

[amber]

Look for the teeth marks in your ass.... ;) :p


Yeah, that's it......

Stevie has been known to write some pretty ****ty bridges, however, I think "Kick It" is probably the worst.

"So what is this...when you can
What is this...what about me
What is this...(What is this)
I understand...(I understand)
What is this...I'm lonely...I'm lonely...(I'm lonely)"

I don't really need to present the case against "Listen to the Rain" again, do I? Hello, Josh????


Kick It rocks. The music sounds good, is the thing about Kick It.
Also, that is one of the most innocuous of Stevie's bad bridges, too. At least I know what it means.
And Josh? I love when you play our song. You're a frontliner, all right. :cool:

[dissention]

Kick It rocks. That is one of the most innocuous of Stevie's bad bridges, too. At least I know what it means.

Her worst bridge is in One More Big Time Rock and Roll Star. It has the same effects as ipecac.

And Josh? I love when you play our song. You're a frontliner, all right. :cool:

Ooooooooh, we put it all on the li-hine!

:xoxo:

[amber]

Her worst bridge is in One More Big Time Rock and Roll Star. It has the same effects as ipecac.
Worse then Desert Angel? What is the bridge of DA, I never listen to that song. Worse than Starshine? (well, you used to be silver!)



Ooooooooh, we put it all on the li-hine!

:xoxo:

Well I am overcome!

[dissention]

Worse then Desert Angel? What is the bridge of DA, I never listen to that song.

Desert Angel is just one horrific song of epic proportions that every part of it is as bad as another. Lester Bangs was a genius for saying that Stevie suffered from "emetic narcissism."

Worse than Starshine? (well, you used to be silver!)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well I am overcome!

Then open up the window!

[amber]

Desert Angel is just one horrific song of epic proportions that every part of it is as bad as another. Lester Bangs was a genius for saying that Stevie suffered from "emetic narcissism."



:lol: :lol: :lol:



Then open up the window!

:laugh:

That's twice now I had to go to dictionary.com. How many other words do you know for things that cause vomiting? :woohoo:
Aww, but I love the funny parts of the Stevie Show, where you get to laugh at the absurdity. (well, you used to make me shiver!)

[dissention]

:laugh:
That's twice now I had to go to dictionary.com. How many other words do you know for things that cause vomiting? :woohoo:

Mal de mer is my particular favorite. :woohoo:

Aww, but I love the funny parts of the Stevie Show, where you get to laugh at the absurdity. (well, you used to make me shiver!)

So did Lester Bangs. He said her music was "a bunch of ****" but that her "emetic narcissism" was so humorous and entertaining that he listened to her stuff anyway. Hahahaha. :laugh:

[BlackWidow]

Mal de mer is my particular favorite. :woohoo:



So did Lester Bangs. He said her music was "a bunch of ****" but that her "emetic narcissism" was so humorous and entertaining that he listened to her stuff anyway. Hahahaha. :laugh:
Even Lindsay has said Stevie "romantisizes her romanticism"