Some questions

[MacFans]

We've been wondering about a few things and even though we don't like posting much, there are a lot of experts here. So here goes.

We always got the impression that Stevie broke up with LB and not the other way around but if that's true and Dreams is about him and about their breakup, why does she say "well there you go again, you say you want your freedom, well who am I to keep you down, it's only right that you should play the way you feel it". Did he want his freedom? Some of the words to Dreams sound like he wanted to break up and she didn't but we always thought she did.

Next question, did LB put down a lot of Stevie's songs and is he known for not liking her songs?

Also and last but not least, there are some people here who think that Stevie and LB are a good match and it would be good if they got back together. We're divided on this sort of but I think it would be nice if they did. Nothing against his wife of course but has anybody here seen LB's Behind the Music? There was so much chemistry between Stevie and LB and it sound a little mean but his wife..okay, sorry because I don't know how to say it without it sounding really bad. It just didn't seem all that real except that they have children.

I think that's all but we might have more questions later on. Thanks a lot.

[michelle2677]

as far as "dreams" and any other stevie or liddy songs, you can go to http://www.buckinghamnicks.net and there are interpretations to all of their songs. VERY helpful site :)

as for the other questions-I'll let someone else take those.....;)

[danax6]

Why did I have a feeling you were going to be the first one to answer? :laugh:

[MacFans]

Thanks for the link to Dreams and all the other ones! I agree with what everybody there said and I'm glad we weren't the only ones confused about those lines! I especially agreed with Sharon that Stevie didn't have a choice to leave because LB was an emotional infant. Again no disrespect to his wife at all but I think he still is. I'm more the Stevie fan and Syd is more the LB fan but since I'm typing right now, this is just how I feel. I'm thinking about the big article in Rolling Stone about how he was single and looking, all the young gfs he had and now his wife who is way younger than him. He said they hit it off right away but I think he was just ripe to be picked. :laugh: His wife might be really sweet but for example Syd might be LB's type. If Syd (and she wishes) had taken those pics of him, they would probably be married by now. Anyway, that's what I think and it's only my opinion. I just think he needed somebody and he was getting older and his wife said she was "stunned" by him and went back to see him so what was he going to do? Choose to be alone some more? They met around the time of the Dance and Stevie didn't seem to be into him anymore and they were enemies for a long time. So even though his wife seemed really sweet and was stunned by him, I think he just needed somebody and she went back. Also even though people fight a lot, it doesn't mean they aren't right for each other. My mom told me that when lovers stop fighting, that's when it's over.

We're not sure if LB doesn't like Stevie's songs and neither one of us has actually seen a quote but LB seems like he might not like her style or puts her songs down. Maybe I'm thinking about her giving him Belladonna and signing it and he just left it there. Okay sorry for how long this is but that's why I think what I think and nobody else can really answer these questions. Thanks and Merry Christmas! :wavey:

[David]

I just think he needed somebody and he was getting older and his wife said she was "stunned" by him and went back to see him so what was he going to do? Choose to be alone some more?I don't think it was a case of being alone -- he always seemed to have longterm relationships despite not getting married -- but I do think he very strongly wanted children. His dad was dead & his brother had recently died very young. When you see members of your family drop off, having kids -- for various complex reasons -- becomes appealing, especially when you believe the heart disease that killed your father & brother might get you too. And then his mother died just after his first child was born.
We're not sure if LB doesn't like Stevie's songs and neither one of us has actually seen a quote but LB seems like he might not like her style or puts her songs down.I think Lindsey does not think Stevie is one of the great songwriters (say, in Dylan's league), although I think he thinks that she's written some good lyrics (as well as a lot of poor lyrics).

[gldstwmn]

We're not sure if LB doesn't like Stevie's songs and neither one of us has actually seen a quote but LB seems like he might not like her style or puts her songs down. Maybe I'm thinking about her giving him Belladonna and signing it and he just left it there. Okay sorry for how long this is but that's why I think what I think and nobody else can really answer these questions. Thanks and Merry Christmas! :wavey:


I don't think Lindsey necessarily dislikes Stevie's solo songs. From what I can glean, he's uninterested in what he hasn't worked on/produced.

[catinthedark]

I don't think Lindsey necessarily dislikes Stevie's solo songs. From what I can glean, he's uninterested in what he hasn't worked on/produced.

I think you're bang on there.

I don't think he dislikes her songs or her music as a general rule. I mean, they were a musical duo long before FM came along. He called her and invited her into Fritz, didn't he? There was definitely something he liked (besides her looks). :)

[michelle2677]

Why did I have a feeling you were going to be the first one to answer? :laugh:

well JEEEEZZ!! I waited for 6 1/2 hours for any other takers!!! ;)

[David]

I think you're bang on there.

I don't think he dislikes her songs or her music as a general rule. I mean, they were a musical duo long before FM came along. He called her and invited her into Fritz, didn't he? There was definitely something he liked (besides her looks). :)I think you guys are talking about two different things as if they were a single thing: Stevie's songwriting & Stevie's albums. Are we of the view that he enjoys the former but not the latter? I am. You gotta remember that Lindsey's primary interest--his art--is the art of track conceptualization & execution: instrumentation, arrangement, orchestration, heterodox ideas not carried to extremes necessarily but pushing boundaries/orthodoxies. In that light, there probably isn't much that is interesting to Lindsey's ear or mind about "Bella Donna," "The Wild Heart," "Rock a Little," "The Other Side of the Mirror" or the others. These are mainstream, formalistically translucent backdrops for Stevie's songwriting, singing & persona. They don't really stand as statements apart from any of those elements of Stevie's. I doubt Lindsey thinks those albums excel in any of those ways that pop music really excites him: as laboratory trials in musical terms.

I think in this context he thinks much more highly of his own albums. In fact, I think he even said at one point that he liked his first solo album better than he liked Stevie's solo album, & I think we can take that statement from just about literally. He _did_ like "Law & Order" better, because "Law & Order"--his own work--dealt more cohesively & thoroughly with Lindsey's musical concerns.

Incidentally, I think the same thing is true of Stevie, only in reverse. I think she vastly prefers her own albums to his. Her concerns don't center on pop reconceptualization or subversive structure; she likes an album to have a bunch of good songs on them--good in terms of a good vocal & lyric that resonate with wisdom & emotion, that tell a story of the heart. So her favorite albums tend to be the classic works by the '70s singer-songwriters, like Jackson Browne, Tom Petty, the Eagles.

[Kelly]

I am not sure if this was already answered in the link posted because I did not click it but the lines in Dreams you asked about.....IMHO is something that LINDSEY is saying to Stevie. "pfft, there you go again, saying you want your freedom!" "Who am I to keep a bad girl like you down??... Go, go, go your own way!!!"....Lindsey is repeating back to Stevie what she has said to him, about wanting her freedom. Stevie does that ALOT, writes about what other people are saying to her intermixed with her own thoughts. That is part of why her songs get so confusing.

As far as him liking her stuff...yea, i think he does. I think he likes to produce it though. :o He did say some nice things about Planets and the TISL album, according to Stevie.

The rest of it about his "wife"........not touching. :lol:

[danax6]

He seemed to enjoy Stand Back just fine during the last tour. :nod:

[SpyNote]

He seemed to enjoy Stand Back just fine during the last tour. :nod:

I was surprised that he was seemingly overjoyed to perform Stand Back in concert, even mouthing the words at times. I think Lindsey generally likes a good pop song, in spite of his experimental ways, and would agree that even Stevie has a written a few of those over the years.

If there were ever an Ask Lindsey forum, I'd ask him what his favorite songs of Stevie were. I'd guess:

1. Gypsy
2. Landslide
3. Destiny Rules

[Sahara]

We're not sure if LB doesn't like Stevie's songs and neither one of us has actually seen a quote but LB seems like he might not like her style or puts her songs down. Maybe I'm thinking about her giving him Belladonna and signing it and he just left it there. :wavey:


Not really sure on this one but there's always that thing Stevie said on the Destiny Rules documentary -- "Of course you hate it, I wrote it"...

:shrug: Maybe we'll never know

[catinthedark]

Not really sure on this one but there's always that thing Stevie said on the Destiny Rules documentary -- "Of course you hate it, I wrote it"...


How did I miss that? Time code, please. :)

[paperflowers]

I don’t think we will ever know for sure why Stevie broke it off with Liddy during Rumours. I'm sure there were many factors as there is with any relationship. Stevie has said that OTR is a continuation of Dreams and in that she says "no loves that hard to find...and I'm tired of trying" I think they were just at each other throats both intense both proud and it just got to "heavy" for her.

Excerpt OTR
So you're still lonely
You say that it's been forever
Maybe you never knew me -
Maybe you thought that
I'd never change - but
You know I'm changing
- You're wrong -
And it's been like dying -
No love's that hard to find -
And I'm tired of -
I'm tired of trying

In my opinion, Lindsey was at the very least conflicted about joining FM in the first place. His vision was the duo Buckingham/Nicks. He thought they would be giving up the dream if they joined FM. Of course, he was right (even though I see Buckingham/Nicks as the band with-in the band and the duo survives). Stevie being more adaptable saw joining as a great opportunity or at least a steady paycheck. She was at her wits end and ready the pack up and go home, Mick’s offer must have felt like a miracle to her.
I can see her saying "C'mon Lindzzzz!!! We are broke, we have no record label, and I'm sick of cleaning houses. This is like a free commercial for us! Total exposure for Buckingham/Nicks." You see, I think at the very beginning she saw joining as a temporary thing. If they didn't fit in with FM they could leave. She didn't feel that joining FM threatened the duo. She was flattered that someone who "made it" recognized Lindsey's talent.
Lindsey on the other hand, was more concerned about what this would do to his art. He would rather be poor than "sell out" and join an already established blues band. He didn't want to adapt his dream to fit the circumstances. He wanted to engineer his and Stevie’s career, not ride on someone else’s coat tails. Perhaps his experience with Fritz left a bad taste. They just left a band with someone else as the boss (Javier), why join another band and have another boss (Mick)? Eventually, He saw the logic in Stevie's way of thinking or maybe relented to it. How could he argue without having another plan or at least a lead on an opportunity for Buckingham/Nicks? I think it was difficult to say the least for Lindsey to watch as Stevie became a star and he felt overlooked. She became a major draw making Buckingham/Nicks less and less likely.
I think she got frustrated with Lindsey’s tortured artist bit; she just wanted to have a good time for once. I mean the miracle happened and he is still melancholy and insecure, what a bummer.
As for the lyrics about wanting freedom I think she is directing them at Lindsey. If you take the entire song as a whole she also talks about the rain washing him clean and women they will come and go and it’s only me who wants to wrap around your Dreams.

I think there was a time when Lindsey poo poo-ed on anything Stevie did (and vice-versa) including her commercial solo work. Even Mick alluded to that in LB’s BTM (I think) when he said LB must have gone over and over that (referring to Belladonna’s success without her soul mate producer) Now I think they both have a live and let live attitude regarding many things including their differing musical tastes and ambitions.

Would Stevie and Lindsey be a good couple if that were possible (LB not married)? For me the answer is yes, even with all their quirks and bull headed-ness, who else has this kind of history? I mean fate keeps throwing them at each other I wish they would just relent and give it a go.

K done rambling

Lori

[MacFans]

Not really sure on this one but there's always that thing Stevie said on the Destiny Rules documentary -- "Of course you hate it, I wrote it"...

:shrug: Maybe we'll never know
That's why I thought that! I couldn't remember why I did or where I got it from. It wasn't on the long hour and a half thing though. When they were promoting it, it was on this thing called "All Access." I still have it on VHS but forgot she said that. Now I remember! It didn't show the whole conversation but just Stevie saying that when they were in the middle of a fight.

I'm sorry if I insulted anyone with my thinking about LB's wife. I really don't have anything against her and she probably is really good for him. I just think that even after he got married he was still thinking about Stevie. I think it's weird to be married to one woman and still be talking about how your love for another one wrecked all your relationships after her. I think if his wife is good for him and he loves her, he probably should stop saying things like that. It's just my opinion but I think it's really weird unless he just does that for those of us (me) that think they would still be a cute couple. Anyway thanks for the help and the link! Ciao.

[MacFans]

I don’t think we will ever know for sure why Stevie broke it off with Liddy during Rumours. I'm sure there were many factors as there is with any relationship. Stevie has said that OTR is a continuation of Dreams and in that she says "no loves that hard to find...and I'm tired of trying" I think they were just at each other throats both intense both proud and it just got to "heavy" for her.

Excerpt OTR
So you're still lonely
You say that it's been forever
Maybe you never knew me -
Maybe you thought that
I'd never change - but
You know I'm changing
- You're wrong -
And it's been like dying -
No love's that hard to find -
And I'm tired of -
I'm tired of trying

In my opinion, Lindsey was at the very least conflicted about joining FM in the first place. His vision was the duo Buckingham/Nicks. He thought they would be giving up the dream if they joined FM. Of course, he was right (even though I see Buckingham/Nicks as the band with-in the band and the duo survives). Stevie being more adaptable saw joining as a great opportunity or at least a steady paycheck. She was at her wits end and ready the pack up and go home, Mick’s offer must have felt like a miracle to her.
I can see her saying "C'mon Lindzzzz!!! We are broke, we have no record label, and I'm sick of cleaning houses. This is like a free commercial for us! Total exposure for Buckingham/Nicks." You see, I think at the very beginning she saw joining as a temporary thing. If they didn't fit in with FM they could leave. She didn't feel that joining FM threatened the duo. She was flattered that someone who "made it" recognized Lindsey's talent.
Lindsey on the other hand, was more concerned about what this would do to his art. He would rather be poor than "sell out" and join an already established blues band. He didn't want to adapt his dream to fit the circumstances. He wanted to engineer his and Stevie’s career, not ride on someone else’s coat tails. Perhaps his experience with Fritz left a bad taste. They just left a band with someone else as the boss (Javier), why join another band and have another boss (Mick)? Eventually, He saw the logic in Stevie's way of thinking or maybe relented to it. How could he argue without having another plan or at least a lead on an opportunity for Buckingham/Nicks? I think it was difficult to say the least for Lindsey to watch as Stevie became a star and he felt overlooked. She became a major draw making Buckingham/Nicks less and less likely.
I think she got frustrated with Lindsey’s tortured artist bit; she just wanted to have a good time for once. I mean the miracle happened and he is still melancholy and insecure, what a bummer.
As for the lyrics about wanting freedom I think she is directing them at Lindsey. If you take the entire song as a whole she also talks about the rain washing him clean and women they will come and go and it’s only me who wants to wrap around your Dreams.

I think there was a time when Lindsey poo poo-ed on anything Stevie did (and vice-versa) including her commercial solo work. Even Mick alluded to that in LB’s BTM (I think) when he said LB must have gone over and over that (referring to Belladonna’s success without her soul mate producer) Now I think they both have a live and let live attitude regarding many things including their differing musical tastes and ambitions.

K done rambling

Lori
Wow thanks for typing all this and I think you're right about all of it. Maybe what Mick said in BTM made me think he didn't like her music too (but mostly the All Access thing). Also in BTM, LB said he was "quick to critique (sp?) Stevie's music and nothing has changed" and then he laughed and in the long documentary, he was doing that exact thing to her song, Thrown Down. Thanks for the help. K done rambling too. :laugh:

[paperflowers]

How did I miss that? Time code, please. :)


I think it was actually a teaser or commercial not in the actual doc:)

[paperflowers]

Wow thanks for typing all this and I think you're right about all of it. Maybe what Mick said in BTM made me think he didn't like her music too (but mostly the All Access thing). Also in BTM, LB said he was "quick to critique (sp?) Stevie's music and nothing has changed" and then he laughed and in the long documentary, he was doing that exact thing to her song, Thrown Down. Thanks for the help. K done rambling too. :laugh:


A few comments regarding my original post so not to bash on Lindsey unfairly. For all his tortured artist and emotional infant stuff LB really is a team player. Even during Tusk which might be when LB was at his most distant if not down right hating on Stevie he treated her songs with such tender care letting her words shine. What a total master of production, that's why I wuv him:)
It's one example of why I love this band each member just mere mortals with short coming and insecurities and each one of them reached beyond that to make wonderful music.

I personally think leaving FM in 87 when everyone (except him) was in the depth of drug struggles and so on and impossible to deal with I’m sure ( the DD at of the party is a drag) , was still one of the hardest and painful things he ever did because he loved them but he hated the drama.

Of course I can't remember what this came from but Chris made a comment about how Stevie only knows three cords and Lindsey said, "Yes, but it's the right ones." Interestingly, I think Stevie reserved her more scathing comments toward Lindsey until 2005. Her comments regarding the infamous New Zealand kick (which I don't think she ever discussed before) were her most sarcastic and cold. Her comments regarding her choice of the librarian Rhiannon dress for the SYW tour on the radio interview prior to Vegas was most interesting.

[danax6]

Her comments regarding her choice of the librarian Rhiannon dress for the SYW tour on the radio interview prior to Vegas was most interesting.Which were? :)

[ELIUD]

...Nothing against his wife of course but has anybody here seen LB's Behind the Music? There was so much chemistry between Stevie and LB and it sound a little mean but his wife..okay, sorry because I don't know how to say it without it sounding really bad. It just didn't seem all that real except that they have children.
Lindsey had his own "Behind the Music"?

[danax6]

Lindsey had his own "Behind the Music"?Yup.

123456

[paperflowers]

Which were? :)


On the jim ladd interview which was glorious if u havent heard it I felt her comments about her choice of dress and her remarks about LB wanting her to be more casual were interesting. Why would he care what her dress looked like? In the interveiw she also refered to him as Mr. Buckingham when Ladd inquired who would care what she wore she was responded with "Guess...Mr Buckingham" to funny and also rather snarky imo

[BlackWidow]

We've been wondering about a few things and even though we don't like posting much, there are a lot of experts here. So here goes.

We always got the impression that Stevie broke up with LB and not the other way around but if that's true and Dreams is about him and about their breakup, why does she say "well there you go again, you say you want your freedom, well who am I to keep you down, it's only right that you should play the way you feel it". Did he want his freedom? Some of the words to Dreams sound like he wanted to break up and she didn't but we always thought she did.

Next question, did LB put down a lot of Stevie's songs and is he known for not liking her songs?

Also and last but not least, there are some people here who think that Stevie and LB are a good match and it would be good if they got back together. We're divided on this sort of but I think it would be nice if they did. Nothing against his wife of course but has anybody here seen LB's Behind the Music? There was so much chemistry between Stevie and LB and it sound a little mean but his wife..okay, sorry because I don't know how to say it without it sounding really bad. It just didn't seem all that real except that they have children.

I think that's all but we might have more questions later on. Thanks a lot.
How do you know the opening lines of Dreams wasn't what Lindsay said to her? Yes..she "officially" broke up with LB. Lindsay & Stevie have always been competetive for the spotlight of FM..unfortunately Stevie took him down on that one and it created much drama for decades! Real chemistry is not a peice of paper..it is a fact between two souls.:nod: