Danny LP

[Neb-Maat-Re]

So what's this album?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4805155609

[chiliD]

That's the US release of his Midnight In San Juan album. Here, it was just titled Danny Kirwan and had the alternate cover you see in the eBay photo.

Here's the entry from the Penguin Discography:

Danny Kirwan: Midnight In San Juan (http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=79)

[dino]

So what's this album?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4805155609

That's a decent album. The other Kirwan album sucks...Horrible!!!!!
"hello big boy" I haven't heard though...

[chiliD]

Hello There, Big Boy is pretty good, too. Although, Danny's guitar is pretty much non-existent. Bob Weston & Kirby handle most of the lead guitar work on it. Plus there's a great version of "Only You" (with a cool middle section that wasn't in the early Fleetwood Mac versions).

Actually, HTBB, sounds quite a bit like the latter day Badfinger albums.

I don't think Second Chapter "sucks", but it was such an odd left turn in sound from his Fleetwood Mac days that it took me quite a few years to accept.

[SteveMacD]

Hello There, Big Boy is pretty good, too. Although, Danny's guitar is pretty much non-existent. Bob Weston & Kirby handle most of the lead guitar work on it. Plus there's a great version of "Only You" (with a cool middle section that wasn't in the early Fleetwood Mac versions).

I agree that "Only You" from "Hello There, Big Boy" (http://www.geocities.com/dayton1974/onlyyou.mp3) was pretty great, although the Mac's version also had the middle section, if we're talking about the slow section of the song.

My biggest gripe with the album is that they were clearly trying to capitalize on the success of Bob Welch's "French Kiss" album. Both had racey titles, both had old Mac song, and both had similar covers:

http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/covers/351.jpghttp://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/covers/297.jpg

[chiliD]

My biggest gripe with the album is that they were clearly trying to capitalize on the success of Bob Welch's "French Kiss" album. Both had racey titles, both had old Mac song, and both had similar covers:

http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/covers/351.jpghttp://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/covers/297.jpg


And, it had a song on the album titled "Spaceman" which COULD be taken as a dig at Bob Welch's spacey songwriting.

[bretonbanquet]

I'm fairly sure that "Hello There Big Boy", a phrase which in England suggests our sort of tongue-in-cheek 'seaside postcard' humour, plus the silly cover, is very much a light-hearted dig at Bob Welch's rather moody "French Kiss" cover. I really can't see Danny's cover as anything else :nod: There's certainly nothing racy about it, just look at Danny's expression! Although maybe it was a bit more pointed than that - Danny and Bob never got on particularly well.

Also it's worth noting that Bob was practically unheard of in the UK, and as a British artist, Danny probably wouldn't have seen Bob's success as worth trying to emulate - Danny was surely well beyond travelling to the States by that point. HTBB was only done to fulfil a contractual obligation to DJM Records, there was no promotion, gigs or publicity and I'm sure no success of any type anywhere was anticipated.

The album is patchy, I think - 'Caroline' and the aforementioned 'Spaceman' are the best two, with 'Only You' - I heard the Mac version (Live at the BBC) first, so I always preferred that one. That song was surely used as a filler to try and disguise the fact they didn't have many songs, and since at that time it had never been officially released as a Mac song, it was new to most ears. 'Wings of a Dove' is OK, and most of the rest are covers, or contributions from the other guys working on the album. Kirby wrote one, Tony Rivers wrote quite a good one and Dana Gillespie wrote one with Clifford Davis. The only other track is Danny's duet with Dana Gillespie, 'Summer Days and Summer Nights', which is a strange little song.

As for "Second Chapter", it doesn't suck - it's over-produced though. The "Ram Jam City" demos CD is a better bet - it's effectively the same album stripped of the cheesy horns and strings, and it fits in much better with the style of his second album. I heard RJC first and afterwards hearing SC was a bit of a disappointment, but I like all of it really :)

[chiliD]

As for "Second Chapter", it doesn't suck - it's over-produced though. The "Ram Jam City" demos CD is a better bet - it's effectively the same album stripped of the cheesy horns and strings, and it fits in much better with the style of his second album. I heard RJC first and afterwards hearing SC was a bit of a disappointment, but I like all of it really :)


My biggest disappointment with RJC is the omission of "Love Can Always Bring You Happiness", which is probably my fave tune on SC.

I just wish that Danny would have layered guitar parts instead of favoring those cheezy Mini-Moog synthesiser parts throughout Midnight In San Juan.

[sharksfan2000]

I just wish that Danny would have layered guitar parts instead of favoring those cheezy Mini-Moog synthesiser parts throughout Midnight In San Juan.
That's for sure. It would have been great to hear that album with different (better) production. Almost all the songs are very good and could have been great with more of Danny's guitar work in place of those synth parts. Maybe his declining mental health had already taken its toll on his guitar abilities by then?

[DavidMn]

When was it released?

[chiliD]

Per the Penguin Discography link I posted above:

EDIT, EDIT, EDIT...Danger, Wil Robinson, Danger Wil Robinson, typo alert, typo alert: SHOULD'VE been:

September 1, 1976...about 5 months before Rumours

[DavidMn]

Per the Penguin Discography link I posted above:

September 1, 1979...about 40 days before TuskDammit, I need to remember that stuff more. You can tell I'm not that great around computers huh?:lol:

[sharksfan2000]

DavidMn, which album are you asking about? ChiliD's response would be for Hello There, Big Boy. Midnight In San Juan was released in 1976, and I believe much or all of it was recorded in '75 (maybe even late '74?).

[DavidMn]

DavidMn, which album are you asking about? ChiliD's response would be for Hello There, Big Boy. Midnight In San Juan was released in 1976, and I believe much or all of it was recorded in '75 (maybe even late '74?).Thats the one I was referring to, yes.

[chiliD]

See edit above...1979 was a typo.

[DavidMn]

Danny's not reall in any kind of shape to be making music these days is he? That's a pretty sad situation:(

[Neb-Maat-Re]

That's the US release of his Midnight In San Juan album. Here, it was just titled Danny Kirwan and had the alternate cover you see in the eBay photo.[/URL]

Thanks for that - and thanks to SteveMacD for the mp3.

[DavidMn]

I wonder why he didnt include Trinity, that unreleased song from the Box Set?

[bretonbanquet]

My biggest disappointment with RJC is the omission of "Love Can Always Bring You Happiness", which is probably my fave tune on SC.

Agree with that - maybe there wasn't a good enough demo recording of that one? It would have been nice to have that maybe instead of two recordings of a couple of other songs.

I just wish that Danny would have layered guitar parts instead of favoring those cheezy Mini-Moog synthesiser parts throughout Midnight In San Juan.

Agreed again :nod: God knows whose idea the synth parts were, or whether they were there to cover up any failings on Danny's part. Trying to get anyone to talk about these sessions is next to impossible :distress: Doesn't stop me trying though :)

As for when the albums were recorded - as an educated guess I think the demos for SC were laid down maybe in '73 or '74 with the MISJ songs done in '74 or '75. HTBB was recorded in January 1979 - according to the test pressing I have of that album.

Release dates were:
SC: Sep. 12, 1975 (UK) / ? (US)
MISJ: Sep. 1, 1976 (UK) / May 1977 (US - as "Danny Kirwan")
HTBB: Mar. 21, 1979 (UK) / Apr. 25, 1979 (US)

[Wouter Vuijk]

HTBB was recorded in January 1979 - according to the test pressing I have of that album.

Release dates were:
SC: Sep. 12, 1975 (UK) / ? (US)
MISJ: Sep. 1, 1976 (UK) / May 1977 (US - as "Danny Kirwan")
HTBB: Mar. 21, 1979 (UK) / Apr. 25, 1979 (US)[/QUOTE]
:confused: So what really was the cause of Danny's decline? I mean, he was out of FM for quit some time then, building up his own career. He wa sdrinkinking excessively during his FM days, which eventually drove him out of the band. But then he still made music, recorded and released albums. What was the decisive turning point?
Anybody got a clue?

[wetcamelfood]

I think Clifford Davis felt DK was still under contractual obligation with him, but who knows?

Thanks for posting these release dates. I'll update them in the new discog & give you full credit of course. :)

I noticed "Rumours 'n fax" lists Sept 9th 1976 for MISJ. I guess I'll just assume that's an error, unless someone can post otherwise with another source listing 9/9/76?

John

[bretonbanquet]

I've never seen Sept 9th anywhere, but I've seen Sept 1st in several places - I've never managed to find out the US release date for 'Second Chapter' though...

HTBB was definitely a contractual obligation for Danny - bearing in mind that he was barely capable of playing guitar, and off on another planet the whole time (according to Bob Weston) - surely they wouldn't have bothered doing the album otherwise? I'm trying to find out more from other people present at the sessions, but it's like some big conspiracy of silence :(

As for the turning point in Danny's health, it's total speculation because we have so few facts. He was obviously unwell when he left Mac in August '72, and I understand he sought medical help at that time. He clearly recovered to some extent as he recorded 'Second Chapter' and the sleeve notes for the 'Ram Jam City' (written with the help of Danny's ex-wife) say he was well and happy at the time of the SC demos. However, at some point after that there was a downturn which never reversed - maybe before or during sessions for MISJ, maybe slightly later. Possibly the lack of commercial success made things worse. Also the fact that Danny never did any live gigs after 1974 suggests he didn't feel able to perform on stage.

The problem is that no-one really explained exactly what his health problems were - persistent alcoholism for sure, but what else? You could guess at a nervous problem, but it's not a good thing to be guessing about. People around Danny don't want to talk about it, and that's what we have to accept, even though we all mean well.