Stevie Vs. Madonna

[maygirl]

Do You Think If Stevie Put Out A New Solo Album With All New Work It Would Sell As Well As Madonna's New Cd???????

[jannieC]

Do You Think If Stevie Put Out A New Solo Album With All New Work It Would Sell As Well As Madonna's New Cd???????
Oh please, I wish! (Welcome, maygirl, btw!)

[equeen102289]

Definitely not...sorry to say.
Stevie just isn't at that level of stardom anymore. She could have been as big as Madonna...she said so herself, but she didn't choose that route. Although Stevie's record wouldn't sell as well, I can guarantee you the music would be better than Madonna's.

[danax6]

In a perfect world.

[UnwindedDreams]

I think stevie could. Stevie would have to really add a beat and have some appeal to the new generation.

[maygirl]

HI JANNIEC......THANKS FOR THE WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE STEVIE...........SHE IS SO TALENTED!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS ASHAME SHE WILL NEVER GET THE TRUE RECOGNITION AND HONORS SHE DESERVES. NO GRAMMY FOR HER SOLO WORK NOR DO I THINK SHE WILL BE INDUCTED INTO THE ROCK N ROLL HALL OF FAME FOR HER SOLO WORK.........THAT IS ASHAME SINCE SHE WELL DESERVES IT:confused:

[GypsySorcerer]

Do You Think If Stevie Put Out A New Solo Album With All New Work It Would Sell As Well As Madonna's New Cd???????
Simply put, no.

[catinthedark]

HI JANNIEC......THANKS FOR THE WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE STEVIE...........SHE IS SO TALENTED!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS ASHAME SHE WILL NEVER GET THE TRUE RECOGNITION AND HONORS SHE DESERVES. NO GRAMMY FOR HER SOLO WORK NOR DO I THINK SHE WILL BE INDUCTED INTO THE ROCK N ROLL HALL OF FAME FOR HER SOLO WORK.........THAT IS ASHAME SINCE SHE WELL DESERVES IT:confused:

Awards are mere pieces of hardware - and let's be honest. Who ever remembers who won the Grammy? She is already in the RRHOF with Fleetwood Mac, which I'm sure she sees as the huge honour it is. As for her solo career, I think the true recognition and honour comes from her legions of fans who have stuck with her through her (admittedly) bad times, who buy her music, love her music, who are sent to states of rapture and euphoria at her shows (and those who just sit there and clap along), and who see beyond the fake, flash in the pan "singers" they refer to as "artists" today to someone who has true talent.

And Madonna vs. Stevie? Apples to oranges. :laugh:

Oh, and welcome to the board! :wavey:

[TomBanks147]

I don't think Stevie ahs the hype Madona has at the moment and how well comerically an ablum does (here in the UK) sadly is all about Hype, advertising etc.

[Serrart]

I think it wouldn't, even if you can never say never. By the way, they haven't artistically much in common and aren't really comparable, IMO.

Romy

[sparky]

American Life was Madonna's Street Angel.
How is the new one selling ?

[Richard B]

Here's a remix mp3 for all those who do not have it already.

Madonna vs. Stevie Nicks (http://homepage.mac.com/osxsurf/FileSharing3.html)

[maygirl]

Thank that was great:thumbsup:

[Ghost_Tracker]

God bless her and her 145 I.Q., and more power to her,
but i.m.o. Madonna tends to write things she knows will sell,
whereas Stevie tends to write from her heart.
So the buckage follows Madonna, and she gets to be a billionaire,
whereas poor defenseless Stevie has to make do with a few tens
of millions. . . . :rolleyes:
I'm not saying that I don't think Madonna has never written from her
heart or written anything nice and beautiful or even deep, but the
general trend i.m.o. is that Madonna writes what will sell and
Stevie writes because she's a writer.

[dissention]

God bless her and her 145 I.Q., and more power to her,
but i.m.o. Madonna tends to write things she knows will sell,
whereas Stevie tends to write from her heart.

"I pray to the commercial gods."

Ms. Nicks writes intentionally commercial stuff, too, babe.

[danax6]

Does Madonna write her own songs?

[Richard B]

"I pray to the commercial gods."
I cringed when she said that.

[maygirl]

Yes Madonna does write her own songs;)

[KateTheCursed]

"I pray to the commercial gods."

Not to be nitpicky, but I believe she said "prayed." While I have no doubt that she has prayed for commercial success on more than one occassion, there is a difference between pray and prayed. Pray implies that it is an on-going repetative crucial part of her creative process. Call me naive, but I don't believe that is the case.

[GypsySorcerer]

Does Madonna write her own songs?

She gets writing credit on most of them, but how much she actually contributes is up for debate. ;)

[sparky]

She gets writing credit on most of them, but how much she actually contributes is up for debate. ;)

Bingo. For you, a toaster.

[strandinthewind]

Bingo. For you, a toaster.

SHe has been sued and just lost one like in Belgium for, I think, Frozen.

[Johnny Stew]

"I pray to the commercial gods."

Ms. Nicks writes intentionally commercial stuff, too, babe.Not arguing with you there, but I think Stevie does it the "right" way... her albums have a nice mixture of the non-commercial and the commercial.
She knows that if she wants to put an "Illume," she has to give the record company a "Say You Will."

Give a little, get a little... it's really not a bad trade off.

[Nicksluvver]

[QUOTE=GypsySorcerer]
I love your sig....I am a huge Marilyn fan!. Now to respond to the thread....:rolleyes: . For me personally Stevie and Madonna are in two different catagories...Dance and Rock/Pop..ok flame on, but thats my honest opinion, therefore, I have no real answer. Ask my about Janet Jackson vs Madge.....having seen both in concert a few times, Janet smokes Madge! But, Madge is still brilliant with the reinventing of herself..no pun intended! :lol: For me Stevie is in a class all by herself, if she never has another hit album in her life, I will prob. buy all the re -releases and see her in concert...everytime!

[Phoenix]

I don't think Stevie ahs the hype Madona has at the moment and how well comerically an ablum does (here in the UK) sadly is all about Hype, advertising etc.

This is true:nod: and WELCOME:wavey: to both yourself and to MAYGIRL:wavey:

[catinthedark]

"I pray to the commercial gods."

Hearing her say that was one of the worst moments ever of my entire 18 year Stevie Nicks fandom. :distress:

[BombaySapphire3]

Hearing her say that was one of the worst moments ever of my entire 18 year Stevie Nicks fandom. :distress:
Even worse than the Poison and Bon Jovi covers on Timespace?

[melly]

When did she say this about the commercial gods???

I think "Sometimes It's A Bitch" is more embarrassing than that quote :nod:

[danax6]

When did she say this about the commercial gods???
On the DR documentary when the people from Warner are over, listening to their demos. When they are done listening, she asks them: "Commercial?! Hopefully?! I pray to the commercial gods."

Ugh.

Although, Lindsey's talk about being okay with living in a two-bedroom apartment was pretty lame also. But he had a point.

[Kelly]

Hearing her say that was one of the worst moments ever of my entire 18 year Stevie Nicks fandom. :distress:


Why? I thought the comment was amusing and the way she said it to the suits was kind of embarrasing, but I think her heart was in the right place. She wanted to album to be successful......tis all. (and probably mostly to protect the producer's ego)

[catinthedark]

Why? I thought the comment was amusing and the way she said it to the suits was kind of embarrasing, but I think her heart was in the right place. She wanted to album to be successful......tis all. (and probably mostly to protect the producer's ego)

I see it slightly differently. I think an album can be successful without being a commercial success. An album can be successful if you feel that you have achieved something new and fresh musically and lyrically. If you feel you have expressed yourself and your lyrics honestly. And if you haven't compromised to please anyone but yourself. And I hated hearing Stevie sound like all she cared about was the money.

[catinthedark]

Even worse than the Poison and Bon Jovi covers on Timespace?

Definitely. :) I don't really consider them covers. Are they? Didn't they just write them for Stevie (or for someone else to record)? Anyway, I actually don't mind Sometime It's a Bitch. Love's a Hard Game to Play... well, I never really loved it, no. But it makes me cringe less simply because I hit the "skip" button! :laugh:

[Ghost_Tracker]

"I pray to the commercial gods."

Ms. Nicks writes intentionally commercial stuff, too, babe.


Ain't disagreeing here, actually -
"Say You Will, say you will give me one more chance?"
Please. She was like, "Anybody have a paper BAG i can borrow?
A napkin? SCRATCH paper???" Pu-leeese.
I just think that Madonna does it more often than Stevie,
and has different reasons for being in the biz.
Stevie was born rich, or at least well-off - not Bill Gates-level like
I said in another thread, but we're basically talking Ozzie and Harriet
land here - Madonna was HUNGRY, in more ways than one, and she
wanted to "make it big" for a WHOLE lotta nice, little reasons -
plus one big whopping one - the cash.
Not putting her down and it's just my opinion,
but that's what I see. Mostly I meant, like, what they TEND to do -
Madonna tends to write stuff she knows will sell,
whereas Stevie seems to have this blind faith that her stuff will sell,
and tends to write from her heart, and stuff her fans will like -
without trying to write stuff that will bring in more fans.
Now if you'll please excuse me, I need to go pick up my
"Most Obvious Statement of the Year Award" :shocked: :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

Hearing her say that was one of the worst moments ever of my entire 18 year Stevie Nicks fandom. :distress:

I will never get why her saying that is such a bad thing. Though she alone said it, I can assure you LB, MF, and JM all wanted commercial success as well. Also, people around here are so quick to point out that SYW wqas not a commerical success, which implies commercial success would have somehow been better. So, I am unsure why she is such a horrible person for actually saying it when everyone in FM and most everyone on this board wanted a commercial success as well.

Also, her commercial sucess has allowed us to have the benefit of her work for 30 years. How is that a bad thing?

I think in the end, it seems like people confuse commercial success with bad art, and that is not always the case and IMO it certainly was not with SYW.

It is sort of like when Rob Reiner's character Sheldon Flender in Bullets Over Broadway says something like "I have never wiritten a play that was a success - I would not stoop to that level" :laugh: :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

I see it slightly differently. I think an album can be successful without being a commercial success. An album can be successful if you feel that you have achieved something new and fresh musically and lyrically. If you feel you have expressed yourself and your lyrics honestly. And if you haven't compromised to please anyone but yourself. And I hated hearing Stevie sound like all she cared about was the money.

True - but you cannot expect to record in an mansion in Bel Air, tour on a private jet, and get paid millions of dollars unless the product is commerically viable. So, they all wanted commercial viability as a means to acheive their lifestyle. I guess I think everyone is slamming La Nicks because there is a soundbyte of her saying it and the implication that she is the only one who wanted that success.

Also, saying that she was praying to the commercial gods in no way suggests that La Nicks did not also think her work had integrity. Again, I will never get how wanting to be commercially successful is a bad thing if you believe in what you are doing, whioch I think she and they do.

[Johnny Stew]

Well said, Jason. And as I've said before, Stevie and the rest of the band are employees of Warner Bros, and, as employees, it is their obligation to live up to their end of the contract.
None of us would keep our jobs for very long if we refused to provide our employer with the output that they expected of us.

Warner Bros wants a marketable product, and there's nothing wrong with FM supplying them with such.
Stevie seems to know that if she wants to include material that satisfies her artistic impulses, then she also has to include material that will satisfy the suits and their "bottom line."

It's a compromise, which is what life is all about.

And it does seem odd to me that we'd have issues with a comment about commercial viability, from a band that has plenty of Top 40 hits and multi-platinum albums. As I see it, they're a commercial band with a non-commercial side... not the other way around.
Even Lindsey's solo music, arguably the "least commercial" of the group's solo output, has a radio-friendly sheen and plenty of "pop" touches.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Stevie seems to know that if she wants to include material that satisfies her artistic impulses, then she also has to include material that will satisfy the suits and their "bottom line. . . . "

I think she thinks her more commercial stuff also satisfies her artistic impulses. For example, I think she really liked the song SYW, which was the first single and had some potential to be a hit, though it was not. So, I do not think she sees it as a compromise, though she readily recognizes a commercial song to a non commerical song as they all do.

[Johnny Stew]

I think she thinks her more commercial stuff also satisfies her artistic impulses. For example, I think she really liked the song SYW, which was the first single and had some potential to be a hit, though it was not. So, I do not think she sees it as a compromise, though she readily recognizes a commercial song to a non commerical song as they all do.I don't disagree. I think she was pleased with "Say You Will"... her little homage to Christine.
But I think she also knows that she has to write "radio-friendly" songs now and again, in order to please the record company.

Truly though, Stevie's tastes ARE "commercial." It's easy to see, when she cites her favorite artists, etc.
Stevie doesn't say she loves the Clash or Eminem... she loves Jackson Browne and Maroon 5.

"Artistic" does not have to equate "non-commercial," and "commercial" doesn't have to equate "unartistic."

I think you can be both, even while making some compromises along the way.

[goldustsongbird]

Does Madonna write her own songs?

yeah, with beautiful, poetic lyrics such as:

I don't like cities, but I like New York
Other places make me feel like a dork

and

If you don't like my attitude, then you can F-off
Just go to Texas, isn't that where they golf?

:rolleyes:

[dissention]

yeah, with beautiful, poetic lyrics such as:

I don't like cities, but I like New York
Other places make me feel like a dork

and

If you don't like my attitude, then you can F-off
Just go to Texas, isn't that where they golf?

:rolleyes:

You do what you want to...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here
No...no...no...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here

and

Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

:rolleyes:

Let us not quote the worst lyrics from another artist when we have clunkers just as ghastly from the gypsy. :laugh:

[goldustsongbird]

You do what you want to...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here
No...no...no...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here

and

Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

:rolleyes:

Let us not quote the worst lyrics from another artist when we have clunkers just as ghastly from the gypsy. :laugh:

:p Yeah, she's had her share of WTF lyrics, too. That Made Me Stronger sucked the big one. right along with Too Far From Texas, I Miss You...

To be honest, though, I've never liked Madonna.

[Richard B]

You do what you want to...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here
No...no...no...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here

and

Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

:rolleyes:

Let us not quote the worst lyrics from another artist when we have clunkers just as ghastly from the gypsy. :laugh:
Those are indeed clunky lyrics and 2 of my least favorite songs.

Here's one that alwys made me go: HUH?
Well I talked to my famous friend last night
My third day up...well, his second nighter
He says, "I don't know how you do what you do...how do you
let the world in?"
Well I say, "Well there's no way out..."
Then I just play out the game
Well the two of us...Widow and a Dove

[sparky]

Those are indeed clunky lyrics and 2 of my least favorite songs.

Here's one that alwys made me go: HUH?
Well I talked to my famous friend last night
My third day up...well, his second nighter
He says, "I don't know how you do what you do...how do you
let the world in?"
Well I say, "Well there's no way out..."
Then I just play out the game
Well the two of us...Widow and a Dove


A Klonopin moment if ever there was one.

[catinthedark]

I will never get why her saying that is such a bad thing. Though she alone said it, I can assure you LB, MF, and JM all wanted commercial success as well. Also, people around here are so quick to point out that SYW wqas not a commerical success, which implies commercial success would have somehow been better. So, I am unsure why she is such a horrible person for actually saying it when everyone in FM and most everyone on this board wanted a commercial success as well.

Oh, believe me, I never said or even implied she was a horrible person for having said it. Don't put words in my mouth, sneaky boy. :)


Also, her commercial sucess has allowed us to have the benefit of her work for 30 years. How is that a bad thing?

There are plenty of artists, very talented artists, who release multiple albums on tiny little independent labels. If she has always truly believed in her music, as I believe she has, she would have continued to record and release music independently even if Warners dropped her. And I, for one, would have continued to buy it. I'd venture to guess one or two other people around here would have, too.

I think in the end, it seems like people confuse commercial success with bad art, and that is not always the case and IMO it certainly was not with SYW.


Well, maybe some people do. Not me. I am one of the biggest Madonna fans around. I think she's a brilliant artist. Totally in a different category than Stevie, but brilliant all the same. And I think she's sold a few albums in her lifetime.

you cannot expect to record in an mansion in Bel Air, tour on a private jet, and get paid millions of dollars unless the product is commerically viable. So, they all wanted commercial viability as a means to acheive their lifestyle. I guess I think everyone is slamming La Nicks because there is a soundbyte of her saying it and the implication that she is the only one who wanted that success.


Bingo. Too bad that's so important. Just different philosophies of life, I guess. I didn't grow up learning that money equals success, that money is the measure of success, or that money brings happiness.

I would have been disappointed and cringed just as heartily had Mick, Lindsey, or John said it. :nod: Though, I have to say, having heard Stevie all her career say she writes and sings because she needs to, because it is who she is, etc etc..., it just was that much more surprising, and disappointing.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

But and again, you seem to be assuming that she thinks the song SYW and others are somehow beneath her because she wants them to be successes. Otherwise, what is it that is disappointing to you? To me, it seems like you think that she would have written the song SYW and other songs in a different manner had she not the weight of being a success on her shoulders. I tend to think that is not the case because she has often said she could not write a hit to save her life. I mean if she is happy with the artistic nature of her work, why are you questioning her simultaneous intent to be commercially successful, a trait I suggest all musicians have to some degree though only a handful will achieve it like FM has.

[Ghost_Tracker]

You do what you want to...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here
No...no...no...
There's no Beauty and the Beast here

and

Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

:rolleyes:

Let us not quote the worst lyrics from another artist when we have clunkers just as ghastly from the gypsy. :laugh:

My GOD I agree with dissention twice in a row.
Somebody PINCH me!!! :laugh: :shrug:

From Stevie Nicks, 1964:
"I've loved and I've lost and I'm sad but not blue."

From Stevie Nicks, 2001 (yeah, okay, based on an older demo that she
scraped off the cutting-room floor with a spatula) -

"AND the planets of the universe. . . GO their way . . .
NOT astounded by the sun-or-the-moon (or BY the day...)
You and I will SIMPLY disappear - OUT of sight . . .
but I'M afraid . . . SOON there'll be - - - no light . . .
NO doubt, no pain (come) EVER again well - -
let there be light in this life-time..."

Don't get me started on Running Through the Garden and how it's
related to Gate and Garden . . . . :rolleyes:

Anyway, yeah, I gotta stick up for poor defenseless Madonna here too -
i m o she's written a LOT of beautiful songs, SOME of which are
brilliant. Maybe her 145 I.Q. has something to do with that, but w/e.
I still think her motivation is or was different than Stevie's but w/e
with that too, more power to both of them. The other thing though,
is that maybe the current dance album from Madonna should be seen
in light of her entire body of work - she's "covering all the bases."
OH well, I'm gonna go listen to Stevie's dance remix of "Dreams"
that she did for fun and to "keep up with the times" and "cover all
the bases." What can I tellya, "there's people out there turning
music in to GOLD!!!"

From Steve Martin, 1979: "AHHHhhh - - - - so it's a PROFIT thing!!! :rolleyes: "

[catinthedark]

From Stevie Nicks, 1964:
"I've loved and I've lost and I'm sad but not blue."

From Stevie Nicks, 2001 (yeah, okay, based on an older demo that she
scraped off the cutting-room floor with a spatula) -

"AND the planets of the universe. . . GO their way . . .
NOT astounded by the sun-or-the-moon (or BY the day...)
You and I will SIMPLY disappear - OUT of sight . . .
but I'M afraid . . . SOON there'll be - - - no light . . .
NO doubt, no pain (come) EVER again well - -
let there be light in this life-time..."



I'm not sure I get the point you're making here. "I've Loved and I've Lost" was the very first thing she ever wrote. You expect perfection?

And please tell me you're not suggesting that No Light, which became Planets of the Universe, is a clunker. Are you freakin' kidding me?

[catinthedark]

^^^^

But and again, you seem to be assuming that she thinks the song SYW and others are somehow beneath her because she wants them to be successes. Otherwise, what is it that is disappointing to you? To me, it seems like you think that she would have written the song SYW and other songs in a different manner had she not the weight of being a success on her shoulders. I tend to think that is not the case because she has often said she could not write a hit to save her life. I mean if she is happy with the artistic nature of her work, why are you questioning her simultaneous intent to be commercially successful, a trait I suggest all musicians have to some degree though only a handful will achieve it like FM has.


No no - I'm not assuming anything about how Stevie is feeling about SYW or the other songs. I don't think she feels at all that they are below her (though maybe she does - I have no idea). This is all about how I perceived the comment about the commercial gods. And whether or not our perceptions of it jive is of no relevance. You perceive it one way, I perceive it another. And yes, I think it does signal to me that she was writing them with the thought of being commercially successful over artistically successful. There is a difference. Have you ever heard of The Hit Factory? Songwriters and producers who produce commercially viable songs for young, hot bodies with voices who can't write to save their lives. There is a difference between that kind of song and the music of an artist who isn't obssessed with simply having a multi-million-selling track. The first time I heard Say You Will (the song), I cringed. Long before I heard her say she had prayed to the commercial gods while writing it. It does sound very calculated and poppy to me - not the kind of music I normally like, nor the kind of music that Stevie usually writes (I say usually; she has had her moments). But, since I was just writing and thinking about Doing the Best I Can (Escape from Berlin) in another thread, I'll cite that as an example of a song of hers that is far from being calculated and commercially viable. It would never ever be released as a single, but to me has far greater artistic integrity than Say You Will (the song). Just my opinion.

[ragandbone]

Stevie's comment about the "commercial gods" made me cringe too, but not because she was revealing that she might think about her songs as a product. Of course the members of FM are artists (!) but they are also part of the huge machinery of the music industry. They are commercial artists, they aren't living off of arts grants, or toiling away in attic apartments, which is what made the scene with Lindsey talking about living in a 2 bedroom for his art so silly.

Stevie's comment made me uncomfortable because it was sort of a summation of the anxiety inherent in the visit from the record company people. If there were commercial gods, then these guys might be the priests and underneath all of the casual banter and friendly greetings was the knowledge that these guys could maybe shut the project down. It was like watching a dominance display in animals, where the lesser animal grins, and lowers itself to show subservience. I didn't want to watch Stevie doing that.

[Ghost_Tracker]

I'm not sure I get the point you're making here. "I've Loved and I've Lost" was the very first thing she ever wrote. You expect perfection?

And please tell me you're not suggesting that No Light, which became Planets of the Universe, is a clunker. Are you freakin' kidding me?

Actually no, I was just contrasting them -
I think Planets of the Universe is one of the most
brilliant things I've heard in my whole life,
and I LOVE it! :)

My only point was that Stevie didn't exactly start out with it...
Planets of the Universe is extremely sophisticated and deep i m o,
and that song she wrote when she was sixteen is . . .
uhmm, NICE! :) :) :)

[dontlookdown]

Stevie is a great singer. Madonna is not.
Stevie can write great songs. Madonna can't.
Madonna's albums will always sell more because she is a commercial cash cow.
Stevie is an artist. Madonna is not.

[David]

Stevie's comment made me uncomfortable because it was sort of a summation of the anxiety inherent in the visit from the record company people. If there were commercial gods, then these guys might be the priests and underneath all of the casual banter and friendly greetings was the knowledge that these guys could maybe shut the project down. It was like watching a dominance display in animals, where the lesser animal grins, and lowers itself to show subservience. I didn't want to watch Stevie doing that.That's exactly what was going on there, but fans are pretty typically blind to the subtext.

Those scenes in the doc were uncomfortable to the extreme for the very reasons you cite. I was all too painfully aware that -- owing to age, the times, the heyday being long since over, etc. -- Fleetwood Mac was being required to explain itself to a bunch of suits, who themselves dressed down, nodded their heads, & swung their legs over their knees in a lame attempt to try not to come across as the bosses. But it was all so squirmy uncomfortable for both sides: obviously nobody wanted to be there, artist or boss. It was the single most telling moment to me about Fleetwood Mac's status in the current climate. Nothing says "Fleetwood Mac is yesteryear's news" like that part of the doc.

On the other hand, you think, The band deliberately puts itself in that position. It doesn't have to, but it insists on staying with a label like that & it insists on trying to sell products to today's children (who are no more likely to buy Fleetwood Mac than they are to buy Season 1 of "Ozzie & Harriet" on DVD). So while I squirm, I can't feel too sorry for them when they're so willfully stupid. In fact, now that I think about it, I'd have liked to see a scene in which the bosses arrive, pretend to nod their heads to stupid songs like "Say You Will," & then get back to their offices & fire off memos to secretaries to inform Fleetwood Mac that the tapes played for them are "unsuitable."

[GypsySongbird]

Stevie is a great singer. Madonna is not.
Stevie can write great songs. Madonna can't.
Madonna's albums will always sell more because she is a commercial cash cow.
Stevie is an artist. Madonna is not.

stevie is beautiful, madonna IS NOT!

[maygirl]

Dontlookdown and Gypsysongbird totally agree.........Stevie gave up her personal life .....her music is her child and significant other.....Madonna didnt....Madonna is as commercial and phony [or is it Esther now? with an English accent] as they get.:nod:

[David]

Stevie gave up her personal life .....her music is her child and significant other.....Then who were Henley, Fishkin, Dudek, Iovine, Norton, Walsh, Hine, Starbuck, et al.?

Just twenty or thirty cases of "nothing personal"?

[maygirl]

Hi David....I meant more of a long term relationship.......even marriage:shrug:

[Kelly]

Stevie's comment about the "commercial gods" made me cringe too, but not because she was revealing that she might think about her songs as a product. Of course the members of FM are artists (!) but they are also part of the huge machinery of the music industry. They are commercial artists, they aren't living off of arts grants, or toiling away in attic apartments, which is what made the scene with Lindsey talking about living in a 2 bedroom for his art so silly.

Stevie's comment made me uncomfortable because it was sort of a summation of the anxiety inherent in the visit from the record company people. If there were commercial gods, then these guys might be the priests and underneath all of the casual banter and friendly greetings was the knowledge that these guys could maybe shut the project down. It was like watching a dominance display in animals, where the lesser animal grins, and lowers itself to show subservience. I didn't want to watch Stevie doing that.


Bingo. Stevie probably knew how WB (or any major label) would react to a portion of LB's songs and realizing how important this album was to him, and the rest of them, she simply tried to craft something that would appeal to WB. (WB in 2000 was not pleased with the GoS demos remember?) Stevie, LB, John and Mick cannot just release whatever they want...they are under contract with Warner's, if this band was all about artistic integrity only they would have went with an Indie label instead. They have always been this way....a commercial band with one member who likes to pretend it is all about the art.

BTW..sort of off topic but Stevie's comment about price tags just popped into my head. She admits to never looking at one again after joining the Mac, methinks commercial success has always been a priority to her. I think her priorities are changing and that is why she hasn't written a song in the last two years.....yes money is still important, that is why we will get a final Mac tour. The fact that she hasn't written any songs but continues to write in her journal ....hmmm.......

Oh and I have no problem with her touring for money either. I have no delusions that she is touring to connect with fans. (yea she might enjoy performing and like a portion of her fan base, I am not saying that)

[dontlookdown]

Norton who?

Ed?


and Starbuck?

[Nico]

Definitely not...sorry to say.
Stevie just isn't at that level of stardom anymore. She could have been as big as Madonna...she said so herself, but she didn't choose that route. Although Stevie's record wouldn't sell as well, I can guarantee you the music would be better than Madonna's.

Oh man, I don't know. I LOVE Madonna's new album. And I have always been a fan of hers, in and out of the closet (depending on her little "stages'). Stevie is cool and I love "the Wild Heart" and some of "Bella Donna" and TISL, but Madonna isn't a slouch by any means. She's quite fantastic, actually, and I'm not sure I could agree with you on this guarantee- no offense. :)

[StreetAngel86]

Madonna has NOTHING on Stevie
Stevie is the ****!

I like Madonna's music, esp her old stuff.
Stevie coming out with a disco album? F^ck off.
that would suck

they are 2 completely different artists that ya can't compare
i don't think STevie needs to sell a quillion billion albums
she has enough of us to appreciate her :wavey:

[Jyqm]

Dontlookdown and Gypsysongbird totally agree.........Stevie gave up her personal life .....her music is her child and significant other.....Madonna didnt....Madonna is as commercial and phony [or is it Esther now? with an English accent] as they get.:nod:

So let me get this straight.


Madonna decided at one point that her career was not the only important thing in the world and that she wanted more out of life, so she got married and had children and has embraced the role of trying to be a good mother.

And this makes her "phony."

Brian Stew, take note: If you ever wondered where some of us come up with those despicable chiffonhead stereotypes, look no further than this thread.

[Johnny Stew]

Brian Stew, take note: If you ever wondered where some of us come up with those despicable chiffonhead stereotypes, look no further than this thread.:laugh:

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've never wondered where the stereotype comes from. That I can plainly see! :laugh:
I've just always wondered why certain Nicks Fans are treated as if their behaviour is all that different from that of other artists' most rabid fans (and why the rest of us are unfairly lumped into that same personality type).

Simple difference. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Stevie coming out with a disco album? F^ck off.
that would suckI don't know... if the album had a similar feel to what Deep Dish did with "Dreams," or to some of the "Planets Of The Universe" remixes (especially the Illicit mixes), I'd be open to Stevie doing a "dance" album. When it's done with style and finesse, dance music can be terrific... though the rest of it is certainly utter tripe.

Stevie's vocal and lyrical style would require something atmospheric and "vibey," but with a driving beat, and the tracks would definitely have to be tightly edited, without excessively long instrumental passages or breakdowns.