SYW - no Grammy? [Archive]

MirrorInTheSky

11-08-2005, 11:05 PM

I'm sure this topic has been tackled before, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Since I am by no means a music connoisseur, I'd really like someone's opinion as to why FM wasn't nomiated for a Grammy for SYW. I was pleasantly surprised to see their AMA, but that's like winning a People's Choice. So was the public just over FM? Were they not commericially viable enough to nomiate for an award? Was SYW just not as "good" of an album as I think it is? Are there just too many political factors in the music biz that I just don't understand? I know some of you cognoscenti can help me out....

HomerMcvie

11-09-2005, 02:10 AM

All of the above. Wasn't the last Grammy, like 30 YEARS ago?
SYW was pretty much bought by the die-hard fans only. I got my deluxe version from a friend, a "casual" fan, who bought it for herself, and HATED it.
Her hatred centered around Come, and Murrow. "A bunch of noise".
Lindsey has lost his golden ear.....and/or FM's hit songwriter!:sorry: :lol:

Brwn_eyes0511

11-09-2005, 03:24 AM

and/or FM's hit songwriter!:sorry: :lol:

hmmm...could that be...the songbird? :xoxo: :)

ShangriLaTroubl

11-09-2005, 03:24 AM

I agree..turns out I found out my aunt has SYW...she's a VERY casual FM listener, someone gave it to her for Christmas...she hated it...

It definetely wasn't commercial enough. And in a way, had it been too commercial I think that wouldn't have worked either. It was just not enough of their "old style" that people like. They want familiarity. Of course the die hard fans bought it, but if they wanted to sell to those who only love their hits...the experimental style of much of SYW just doesn't work..

HomerMcvie

11-09-2005, 03:38 AM

hmmm...could that be...the songbird? :xoxo: :)
I'm not saying anything else on the subject! Wanna be Bob Dylan might string me up by my ....s!:rolleyes: :woohoo:

Johnny Stew

11-09-2005, 03:53 AM

I'm not saying anything else on the subject! Wanna be Bob Dylan might string me up by my ....s!:rolleyes: :woohoo:Well, it is just too funny that you like to say Stevie appeals to the lowest common denominator, and then you praise Christine for having the most Top 40 pop hits with the band.

It's what we call irony, my friend. ;)

Brwn_eyes0511

11-09-2005, 05:09 AM

Well, it is just too funny that you like to say Stevie appeals to the lowest common denominator, and then you praise Christine for having the most Top 40 pop hits with the band.

It's what we call irony, my friend. ;)

Can Christine help it if her art is appealing to a vast audience?

Not such a narrow band...

Kelly

11-09-2005, 07:47 AM

I did not really miss Chris at all on SYW.

Jyqm

11-09-2005, 07:56 AM

I'm sure this topic has been tackled before, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Since I am by no means a music connoisseur, I'd really like someone's opinion as to why FM wasn't nomiated for a Grammy for SYW.

The Grammys are perhaps the most idiotic and meaningless of all the major artistic awards. They don't have any kind of record of awarding the best musicians and records in any given year (actually, their reputation is built more on the joke of, "Can you believe they actually gave group Z an award in 19XX?"), and nobody in the world pays even the slightest bit of attention them (plenty of people go to see a movie because it's advertised as "Oscar-nominated"; have you ever known anyone to pick up an album because it has a "Grammy-winning" sticker on it?).

Why wasn't Say You Will nominated? Because it wasn't major buzz release surrounded by lots of hype (like The Dance), and it wasn't a runaway commercial success (like Rumours). And in the main categories, that's really all that matters to the Grammy folks, 99% of the time. And the other 1% of the time, they inexplicably give an award to Steely Dan.

Jyqm

11-09-2005, 08:02 AM

It definetely wasn't commercial enough. And in a way, had it been too commercial I think that wouldn't have worked either. It was just not enough of their "old style" that people like. They want familiarity. Of course the die hard fans bought it, but if they wanted to sell to those who only love their hits...the experimental style of much of SYW just doesn't work..

I shudder to think what that album would have been like if it had been more commercial.

But what's "experimental" about SYW? I have to say, I've never really understood the Tusk comparisons this album seems to get. The only one of Stevie's tracks that's even slightly "out there" is "Illume." And with Lindsey's songs, I guess "Red Rover" and "Say Goodbye" might be slightly less accessible with all the layered guitar effects, but everything else is either a fairly catchy pop song or "I'm So Afraid #3."

jannieC

11-09-2005, 10:35 AM

JazmenFlowers

11-09-2005, 12:04 PM

*I* really didn't like SYW at all when I first listened to it, so I can only imagine how a casual fan must have felt about it. I ended up bringing the CD to work and made myself listen to it, and of course I ended up fully appreciating and loving it.
I was in the same boat. I played it for some friends and we'd be 10 seconds into a song and they'd say "skip" and I had to force myself to listen to most of Lindsey's songs and finally ended up liking some of them. Stevie's are really good, but I don't like what they did to Smile At You and Running Through The Garden. I guess once you've heard those demos it's hard to like these. As far as Grammy's go, I like what Jyqm had to say, and I agree. FM hasn't ever really been in that whole loop anyway...I wish they were just for recognition's sake, but oh well. And I also agree with Kelly, I didn't really miss Chris on the album except for her nice backing vocals. Although, I guess her songs could have offset the "hard" sound of most of the songs on the album and I blame Lindsey for that. Each song has a rough edge to it that I don't like.

Jyqm

11-09-2005, 12:16 PM

I was in the same boat. I played it for some friends and we'd be 10 seconds into a song and they'd say "skip"

Gotta say, you've got some ridiculous friends. How can you possibly know whether you like a song or not based on the first ten seconds? For that matter, how can you really know if you like an album or not after a single listen? Good music takes time to sink in. I find that most albums that sound perfect on first listen tend to be largely superficial, and that glitter fades quickly after a few more spins, until you can't really remember what it was about the record that had you so excited in the first place. I'm glad that Fleetwood Mac didn't feel the need to create a slick, superficial production like that with SYW. At this point in their career, they really have no excuse to make albums that way.

As far as Grammy's go, I like what Jyqm had to say, and I agree. FM hasn't ever really been in that whole loop anyway...

Except when they won a boatload of Grammys for Rumours, anyway.

I wish they were just for recognition's sake, but oh well.

But then again, is that really the kind of recognition you want for Fleetwood Mac? NARAS is almost universally renowned for its idiocy, and the Grammys themselves are a laughingstock. Keep in mind, this is an organization that once gave a Best New Artist award to A Taste of Honey (remember them? They did "Boogie Oogie Oogie" and... um... wait, give me a second I"ll think of another one...) over Elvis Costello. Fleetwood Mac certainly does not need their approval.

Each song has a rough edge to it that I don't like.

As opposed to that demo of "Smile At You," huh?

JazmenFlowers

11-09-2005, 12:21 PM

Gotta say, you've got some ridiculous friends. How can you possibly know whether you like a song or not based on the first ten seconds? For that matter, how can you really know if you like an album or not after a single listen? Good music takes time to sink in. I find that most albums that sound perfect on first listen tend to be largely superficial, and that glitter fades quickly after a few more spins, until you can't really remember what it was about the record that had you so excited in the first place. I'm glad that Fleetwood Mac didn't feel the need to create a slick, superficial production like that with SYW. At this point in their career, they really have no excuse to make albums that way.

well, my friends aren't ridiculous and I don't think it's appropriate to say that; I was exaggerating the time, but I do agree with the rest of your statement

Except when they won a boatload of Grammys for Rumours, anyway.

ok.

But then again, is that really the kind of recognition you want for Fleetwood Mac? NARAS is almost universally renowned for its idiocy, and the Grammys themselves are a laughingstock. Keep in mind, this is an organization that once gave a Best New Artist award to A Taste of Honey (remember them? They did "Boogie Oogie Oogie" and... um... wait, give me a second I"ll think of another one...) over Elvis Costello. Fleetwood Mac certainly does not need their approval.

I understand that.

As opposed to that demo of "Smile At You," huh?

I acknowledge that Smile At You demo is unfinished, but that's not what I mean. I probably can't describe it here, but there's something that's not working for me on this one.

David

11-09-2005, 12:26 PM

It definetely wasn't commercial enough. And in a way, had it been too commercial I think that wouldn't have worked either. It was just not enough of their "old style" that people like. They want familiarity.Mac did all they could do at this point with SYW. Not only might they be disinclined to actually re-create their Rumours style of arrangement & production, they're also incapable. There wouldn't be a chance in hell of any future Mac album being arranged or produced to simulate the Rumours sonic landscape. That's gone . . . just as surely as the way we all talked before puberty kicked in. Even Mirage didn't sound like Rumours, despite what a lot of people said -- & that was twenty-something years ago.

JazmenFlowers

11-09-2005, 12:30 PM

Mac did all they could do at this point with SYW. Not only might they be disinclined to actually re-create their Rumours style of arrangement & production, they're also incapable. There wouldn't be a chance in hell of any future Mac album being arranged or produced to simulate the Rumours sonic landscape. That's gone . . . just as surely as the way we all talked before puberty kicked in. Even Mirage didn't sound like Rumours, despite what a lot of people said -- & that was twenty-something years ago.
I think I'll go slit my wrists now...

You make it sound so sad...and I know there's total truth to what you're saying, it's just depressing. :lol:

strandinthewind

11-09-2005, 12:33 PM

Can Christine help it if her art is appealing to a vast audience?

Not such a narrow band...

Ummm - "narrow band" - Stevie has sold way more solo records than any of them and since around the time of Tusk easily is the most recognizeable person in that band on and off stage. So, defining her reception by the public and/or her product as a "narrow band" is incorrect.

JazmenFlowers

11-09-2005, 12:38 PM

Ummm - "narrow band" - Stevie has sold way more solo records than any of them and since around the time of Tusk easily is the most recognizeable person in that band on and off stage. So, defining her reception by the public and/or her product as a "narrow band" is incorrect.
I was in such shock when I read that I couldn't respond, so, I'll second what you say.

HomerMcvie

11-09-2005, 01:13 PM

I did not really miss Chris at all on SYW.
Neither did the record buying public!

GypsySorcerer

11-09-2005, 01:17 PM

Fleetwood Mac isn't going to sell millions of albums anymore, period. The group who bought SYW would purchase a FM album no matter what.

As far as SYW not winning a Grammy, eh. There are a couple individual songs that may be worthy, but the album as a whole certainly is not, IMO.

dissention

11-09-2005, 01:20 PM

Fleetwood Mac isn't going to sell millions of albums anymore, period. The group who bought SYW would purchase a FM no matter what.

As far as SYW not winning a Grammy, eh. There are a couple individual songs that may be worthy, but the album as whole certainly is not, IMO.

Always the beautiful voice of reason, you are.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-09-2005, 01:33 PM

Ummm - "narrow band" - Stevie has sold way more solo records than any of them and since around the time of Tusk easily is the most recognizeable person in that band on and off stage. So, defining her reception by the public and/or her product as a "narrow band" is incorrect.

I don't think I did....:shrug:

P.S. glad you are back. How is your mom?

Brwn_eyes0511

11-09-2005, 01:34 PM

Neither did the record buying public!

:xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

strandinthewind

11-09-2005, 01:48 PM

I don't think I did....:shrug:

I thought you meant La Nicks has a narrow band of people who like her as opposed to the wider range CM has. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

P.S. glad you are back. How is your mom?

Thanks for asking. She is better. The designer antibiotics seem to be working.

DavidMn

11-09-2005, 02:00 PM

DavidMn

11-09-2005, 02:02 PM

Neither did the record buying public!You know, I missed her, but I also feel they did a helluva job on it. Hope that makes sense

Brwn_eyes0511

11-09-2005, 02:04 PM

I thought you meant La Nicks has a narrow band of people who like her as opposed to the wider range CM has. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No, I was talking about the group in general and SYW.

Thanks for asking. She is better. The designer antibiotics seem to be working.

That's great! Still in my thoughts and prayers...

JazmenFlowers

11-09-2005, 02:06 PM

Thanks for asking. She is better. The designer antibiotics seem to be working.
I didn't even know your mom was sick. I hope she is doing ok and I'll keep her in my thoughts.

DavidMn

11-09-2005, 02:07 PM

I didn't even know your mom was sick. I hope she is doing ok and I'll keep her in my thoughts.Ditto.:angel:

ontheEdgeof17

11-09-2005, 04:25 PM

As far as SYW not winning a Grammy, eh. There are a couple individual songs that may be worthy, but the album as a whole certainly is not, IMO.

You're right. Those songs that are deemed "worthy" weren't released as singles so they had no chance in hell.

Serrart

11-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Mac did all they could do at this point with SYW. Not only might they be disinclined to actually re-create their Rumours style of arrangement & production, they're also incapable. There wouldn't be a chance in hell of any future Mac album being arranged or produced to simulate the Rumours sonic landscape. That's gone . . . just as surely as the way we all talked before puberty kicked in. Even Mirage didn't sound like Rumours, despite what a lot of people said -- & that was twenty-something years ago.

I'm glad they can't arrange any more in that way, since we're thirty years later.

I miss Christine on SYW mostly for her strategic role. I have the feeling she would have backed Stevie more in the arrangements discussions, and to have songs like Friend woud have helped to balance the musical War of the Roses.
Other than that it's an awesome album, a personal all time favourite for me.

Romy

jannieC

11-09-2005, 07:25 PM

I'm glad they can't arrange any more in that way, since we're thirty years later.

I miss Christine on SYW mostly for her strategic role. I have the feeling she would have backed Stevie more in the arrangements discussions, and to have songs like Friend woud have helped to balance the musical War of the Roses.
Other than that it's an awesome album, a personal all time favourite for me.

Romy

I missed Christine's presence at the SYW shows, but that's pretty much it. I can't say that I'm in love with every song on SYW, and as I said earlier, had I been a casual fan, I probably wouldn't have given it as much attention as I did. But that CD definitely grew on me, and now I truly enjoy it.

Kelly

11-10-2005, 08:22 AM

:xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

SYW would not have sold that much more if Christine were involved. I am sure you believe that but their days of platinum selling albums of new material, are long over. For all of them. Together or apart.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 08:45 AM

SYW would not have sold that much more if Christine were involved. I am sure you believe that but their days of platinum selling albums of new material, are long over. For all of them. Together or apart.

IDK? 1997 wasn't really all that long ago. :shrug:

Jyqm

11-10-2005, 09:38 AM

IDK? 1997 wasn't really all that long ago. :shrug:

Eight years? That's a lifetime in the music industry. Especially when there's no longer the "reunion" buzz.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 09:49 AM

Eight years? That's a lifetime in the music industry. Especially when there's no longer the "reunion" buzz.

...or any promotion by the record label, or the loss of a key songwriter/member.

That is true...

seekerj

11-10-2005, 10:58 AM

I was in the same boat. I played it for some friends and we'd be 10 seconds into a song and they'd say "skip" and I had to force myself to listen to most of Lindsey's songs and finally ended up liking some of them. Stevie's are really good, but I don't like what they did to Smile At You and Running Through The Garden. I guess once you've heard those demos it's hard to like these. As far as Grammy's go, I like what Jyqm had to say, and I agree. FM hasn't ever really been in that whole loop anyway...I wish they were just for recognition's sake, but oh well. And I also agree with Kelly, I didn't really miss Chris on the album except for her nice backing vocals. Although, I guess her songs could have offset the "hard" sound of most of the songs on the album and I blame Lindsey for that. Each song has a rough edge to it that I don't like.

IMHO, I like the rough edge; I don't think Stevie's songs on SYW have enough "rough edge" or "hard sound". I think that's part of the reason for the lack of continuity on the album; you know, how some say that SYW sounds like two solo albums put together. I don't necessarilly fully agree with that, but I do think that the album as a whole would have sounded more consistent if some of Stevie's upbeat SYW tunes were arranged more dynamically. For example, more like the single remix of "Say You Will" (the song), which is much more "edgie" and more "there" compared to the arrangement on the album, which is so much more subdued. I wish that remix had been used for the album. And that similar arrangements were used for her other songs. (Except Illume, which is already edgie.)
- Jim

dissention

11-10-2005, 11:28 AM

...or any promotion by the record label, or the loss of a key songwriter/member.

That is true...

Warner promoted the **** out of SYW.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 11:32 AM

Warner promoted the **** out of SYW.

obviously not good enough.

catinthedark

11-10-2005, 11:35 AM

Warner promoted the **** out of SYW.

Did they? I must have been living under a rock. I heard/saw none of it. My friend works in radio and he said the single Peacekeeper landed with no fanfare, he played it a couple of times, and it went away.

dissention

11-10-2005, 11:37 AM

obviously not good enough.

A label can promote the hell out of a record, but that doesn't mean that people WANT what they're promoting. The appeal of a new Mac record is quite limited.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 11:41 AM

A label can promote the hell out of a record, but that doesn't mean that people WANT what they're promoting. The appeal of a new Mac record is quite limited.

which goes back to what Homer said...

dissention

11-10-2005, 11:43 AM

which goes back to what Homer said...

About die-hards and a slim number of casual fans buying it? Yup. But it had little or nothing to do with Christine being absent. It likely would have sold the same numbers with her attached to the project.

To say, as you did, that they didn't promote it is asinine.

strandinthewind

11-10-2005, 11:47 AM

Warner promoted the **** out of SYW.

I agree and so did FM themselves. They did Leno two nights in a row and with the troops there - AND they sang the two singles. They also did The Today Show (?) and tons of radio and print press for the release. They also did that Blockbuster concert promo that the videos came from. Sadly, Lindsey's performance of Peacekeeper on The Today show was horrid and I know people who were turned off by it. Also, the Leno appearances had no charisma whatsoever and they sounded bad. So, I think those unfortunate mass media events coupled with initial relatively lackluster general public appeal prevented that record from being a larger hit.

Richard B

11-10-2005, 12:37 PM

I miss Christine on SYW mostly for her strategic role. I have the feeling she would have backed Stevie more in the arrangements discussions, and to have songs like Friend woud have helped to balance the musical War of the Roses.
Other than that it's an awesome album, a personal all time favourite for me.
I agree. Christine's presence would have softened the album. I'm a sucker for three part harmonies. Obviously they made a career out of this. Those 3 distinct voices blending and oozing greatness together.

Thankfully in our kick butt technology era, we can make our own Say You Will CD/Playlist and add some In The Meantime tracks to the album and remove the dog songs.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 01:05 PM

Jyqm

11-10-2005, 01:13 PM

which goes back to what Homer said...

Something about "rosy-fingered dawn," right?

johnny4406

11-10-2005, 02:05 PM

I agree. Christine's presence would have softened the album. I'm a sucker for three part harmonies. Obviously they made a career out of this. Those 3 distinct voices blending and oozing greatness together.

Thankfully in our kick butt technology era, we can make our own Say You Will CD/Playlist and add some In The Meantime tracks to the album and remove the dog songs.

:o I've been working on the perfect mix for the past two days, off and on after work. lol

Here's what I have so far (If Christine participated on the album and NOT the tour....she wouldnt have so many tracks):

1. What's the world coming to
2. Friend
3. Thrown Down
4. Steal your heart away
5. Northern Star
6. Murrow
7. Illume
8. Peacekeeper
9. Say You will
10. You are
12. Smile At You
13. Red Rover
14. Running Through the garden
15. Bleed to love her
16. Anything is Possible
17. Everybody finds out
18. Destiny Rules
19. Say Goodbye
20. Givin it Back

..the flow is so good, try it!

DavidMn

11-10-2005, 03:42 PM

:o I've been working on the perfect mix for the past two days, off and on after work. lol

Here's what I have so far (If Christine participated on the album and NOT the tour....she wouldnt have so many tracks):

1. What's the world coming to
2. Friend
3. Thrown Down
4. Steal your heart away
5. Northern Star
6. Murrow
7. Illume
8. Peacekeeper
9. Say You will
10. You are
12. Smile At You
13. Red Rover
14. Running Through the garden
15. Bleed to love her
16. Anything is Possible
17. Everybody finds out
18. Destiny Rules
19. Say Goodbye
20. Givin it Back

..the flow is so good, try it!Not bad. I like it

dissention

11-10-2005, 03:54 PM

6. Murrow
7. Illume

Pretty good. Except those two songs back to back give me an ulcer.

Richard B

11-10-2005, 03:55 PM

DavidMn

11-10-2005, 05:04 PM

Hey John...thanks...looks good. But I certainly must remove 'Anything Is Possible' and replace it with 'Bad Journey.'

My 2¢Those arent bad ideas either. all good stuff:D

ontheEdgeof17

11-10-2005, 05:59 PM

Chris' songs on ITM are not "dark" enough or "experimental" enough to flow with SYW.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-10-2005, 06:02 PM

Chris' songs on ITM are not "dark" enough or "experimental" enough to flow with SYW.

But isn't it that dynamic that attracted so many to the sound of FM from years ago. Three very different styles on one album...I mean look at Tusk! That one worked very well...

Richard B

11-10-2005, 06:36 PM

Chris' songs on ITM are not "dark" enough or "experimental" enough to flow with SYW.
Bad Journey certainly is dark and I think pretty experimental for Christine.

foxyluva

11-10-2005, 09:36 PM

I played SYW to my manager, who is a casual Fleetwood Mac fan, and he said that the album is the strangest Fleetwood Mac he had ever heard, but he did say the guitar was awesome on "Murrow" :rolleyes:

I don't think it deserved any awards, purley because it was not all that good. It took me months to actually like the album! I agree with past comments that it sounded like two albums put in a blender. Stevies songs were completely different to Lindsey's - there is no flow from track to track, which is present on all their other efforts. And they really needed to put effort into doing this, because they no longer have Christine to balance out the record.

Oh yeah, and the album is in no way similar to Tusk at all - just because SYW is quite experimental, doesnt mean its any where near as creative. If they had maybe stuck with the idea of a double album, it may have worked, but.. who knows :shrug:

Johnny Stew

11-10-2005, 11:40 PM

Something about "rosy-fingered dawn," right?:laugh:

I hope I'm not the only one who got that. :thumbsup:

ontheEdgeof17

11-10-2005, 11:42 PM

Bad Journey certainly is dark and I think pretty experimental for Christine.

Oh Daddy
Behind The Mask
Sooner or Later

....all better :darker: songs than that.

Richard B

11-11-2005, 01:00 AM

Oh Daddy
Behind The Mask
Sooner or Later

....all better :darker: songs than that.
Yes. But I was speaking of In The Meantime tracks only.

ontheEdgeof17

11-11-2005, 01:05 AM

Yes. But I was speaking of In The Meantime tracks only.

Any song with the lyrics containing "Gitchie Gumee" is not a dark, complex song.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-11-2005, 01:07 AM

Any song with the lyrics containing "Gitchie Gumee" is not a dark, complex song.

Mood/Atmosphere honey...we learned about it in 6th grade literature.

ontheEdgeof17

11-11-2005, 01:09 AM

^ I'm sure that was some rude remark but I can't read it cuz I blocked you, but continue on to try to fit in.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-11-2005, 01:12 AM

^ I'm sure that was some rude remark but I can't read it cuz I blocked you, but continue on to try to fit in.

No it wasn't, but since you blocked me it doesn't really matter!

YES IM A CLASS A BITCH! WOOHOO:woohoo:

Jyqm

11-11-2005, 01:49 AM

just because SYW is quite experimental

What do people mean when they say SYW is "experimental"? When I listen to it, the vast majority of tracks just sound like straight ahead rock songs to me. What's experimental about it?

That's a serious question, I really don't hear it.

amber

11-11-2005, 02:03 AM

What do people mean when they say SYW is "experimental"? When I listen to it, the vast majority of tracks just sound like straight ahead rock songs to me. What's experimental about it?

That's a serious question, I really don't hear it.
It would be straight ahead rock, if anyone was still doing rock like that, which they aren't so much. And I wouldn't so much call it "experimental". Because for Lindsey, it's not experimental, really. It might be for someone else, with all the layering and such, but...
I would call it unusual, definitely. I really do think it is an unusual album.

I really like it, too. Lindsey ran away with this one for me, with a few notable Stevie exceptions.

So, yes, it is rock, but rock like people now don't really do. Plus, Lindsey's layering and some other stuff make it a few cuts above "straight ahead rock" for me.

Johnny Stew

11-11-2005, 02:10 AM

What do people mean when they say SYW is "experimental"? When I listen to it, the vast majority of tracks just sound like straight ahead rock songs to me. What's experimental about it?

That's a serious question, I really don't hear it.I don't hear anything I'd classify as experimental either.

Eclectic, definitely. But not experimental.

dissention

11-11-2005, 02:12 AM

I don't hear anything I'd classify as experimental either.

Eclectic, definitely. But not experimental.

For Fleetwood Mac, I'd call quite a few songs experimental. Are they in a general sense next to a lot of the music out there? Hell no. But for Fleetwood Mac to release stuff like Red Rover, Murrow, Illume, and a couple others, I'd call it experimental within the confines of that particular band.

jbrownsjr

11-11-2005, 03:10 AM

Pretty good. Except those two songs back to back give me an ulcer.

eat some kishka

jbrownsjr

11-11-2005, 03:15 AM

Mac did all they could do at this point with SYW. Not only might they be disinclined to actually re-create their Rumours style of arrangement & production, they're also incapable. There wouldn't be a chance in hell of any future Mac album being arranged or produced to simulate the Rumours sonic landscape. That's gone . . . just as surely as the way we all talked before puberty kicked in. Even Mirage didn't sound like Rumours, despite what a lot of people said -- & that was twenty-something years ago.

yeah that whole thing about mirage sounding like rumours was incredibly cliche and wrong.... Mirage was LB and CM doing do wop harmonies from LB's influences. they did a pretty good job too i love straight back too of course

jbrownsjr

11-11-2005, 03:17 AM

jbrownsjr

11-11-2005, 03:22 AM

Any song with the lyrics containing "Gitchie Gumee" is not a dark, complex song.

hahaha!!! that was funny

ontheEdgeof17

11-11-2005, 05:21 AM

:laugh:
that is funny, but actually that song is really sad....:p

It is.....but look on the bright side....she got to travel.

....and I like this song.

cliffdweller

11-11-2005, 09:41 AM

I got my deluxe version from a friend, a "casual" fan, who bought it for herself, and HATED it.
Her hatred centered around Come, and Murrow. "A bunch of noise".
Lindsey has lost his golden ear.....and/or FM's hit songwriter!:sorry: :lol:

Pfffffffffffffffft! :laugh: That's rich.

cliffdweller

11-11-2005, 09:48 AM

I did not really miss Chris at all on SYW.

I did. I love her organ playing (when she does it) and her harmony lends such a beautiful vocal arc to their arrangements. I think that's why I like Steal Your Heart Away so much...all those blended voices...it was like the old Fleetwood Mac again.

David

11-11-2005, 09:58 AM

What do people mean when they say SYW is "experimental"? When I listen to it, the vast majority of tracks just sound like straight ahead rock songs to me. What's experimental about it?

That's a serious question, I really don't hear it.We'd have to define what we mean specifically by "experimental" in the context of "Tusk," the typical radio playlists in 1979 against which "Tusk" offset something or other, the characteristics of "Say You Will," & the music on the radio & elsewhere at the time "Say You Will" was released.

There are different types of experimental: songcraft/going against the established grain in song structure (which is rare in popular music), instrumentation/using traditional instruments in unorthodox ways (something Lindsey used to dabble in), new approaches in building arrangements (e.g., building a dance track like "When Doves Cry" without a bass), & thematic conceptualization ("The Ninth Wave" suite by Kate Bush, for example).

Richard B

11-11-2005, 01:15 PM

Any song with the lyrics containing "Gitchie Gumee" is not a dark, complex song.
Who said anything about complex? Not me. Anyway it's not a "club over your head dark", but subtle. Here's the lyrics for your review. Not the happiest...a very subtle darkness and sadness:

Everything was looking good
Just like it should
Trusted you with all my heart
Never dreamt you'd tear me apart
So I went on a ride
Looking on the inside and not the outside
Rambled round and round
In and out of town

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

Signs were good
When I started out
No traffic anywhere
Just as well 'cos I didn't care
I felt for so long
Cracks appearing on your loving face
I saw them then I can see them now

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

Saw my dreams of love
As distant as the mountain tops
And just as far away beyond the point
Where I am today
So I picked myself up, 'cos I put myself down
And I in my car and drive around
No matter what was said
What it was that you did
All that's behind me now,
'Cos I'm moiving on

New York City to Mexico
I went to New Orleans to Boise, Idaho
On the shores of Gitche Gumee
In The Hidden Hills
I went to Key Biscayne, nothing there
So I came back again

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

So I picked myself up, 'cos I put myself down
And I get in my car and drive around
No matter what was said, what it was that you did
All that's behind me now
'Cos I'm moving on

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

ontheEdgeof17

11-11-2005, 03:08 PM

Here's the lyrics for your review. Not the happiest...a very subtle darkness and sadness:

I have the album. I read the lyric booklet.

To me, it's a song about having the power to move on. She's not sad...she's already past that point...

catinthedark

11-11-2005, 03:58 PM

I have the album. I read the lyric booklet.

To me, it's a song about having the power to move on. She's not sad...she's already past that point...

I agree - I actually find those lyrics quite empowering and positive. She was wiped right out by this guy - but in every verse, she is picking herself back up, moving on, going forward. I'd like to hear the song itself.

Richard B

11-11-2005, 06:06 PM

I have the album. I read the lyric booklet.

To me, it's a song about having the power to move on. She's not sad...she's already past that point...
That too, certainly. Anyway. Not worth bothering about. The song clicks with me.

Glad you have the CD and booklet too. She appreciates the sales. Just wanted to have it for others to look at easily.

Stevie_Buck

11-15-2005, 05:45 AM

David

11-15-2005, 12:16 PM

I find it odd when people call it experimental too. I don't even think Illume is experimental myself.It doesn't sound so to me. In fact, it sounds like a pretty conventional dance or club track -- the same grind, the same groove going on.

It's cool hearing Fleetwood Mac do that, but that's not the same as calling it experimental (except from the narrow point of view of FM doing it). I don't think there's anything on the album in terms of production, arrangement, tracking or even concept that's especially experimental for the 2003 climate (except maybe for Lindsey's "orchestral" guitar techniques implemented for "Red Rover" & "Say Goodbye").

In order to gauge experimentation, you have to look at what else is going on in music around it -- "experimental" is a relative term. For example, with "Tusk" you have to look at what ELSE was on the radio in late 1979, & then you can clearly see that "Tusk" went down few of those broad avenues but instead took a bunch of sidestreets & even a few back alleys.

dontlookdown

11-15-2005, 02:03 PM

in hind sight,
Say You Will was a welcome return to form for the band -
a move in the right direction, as far as i'm concerned.
The weak spots were the commercial tracks - the title track, Goodbye Baby and a few others.
Had the album been written by stevie and lindsey together from the start, it probably would have felt more like a cohesive collection of tracks - like the Buckingham Nicks record.
As for the Grammy's - I can't remember when they were relevant - in terms of rewarding artistry rather then sales.
We all need to start worrying when Fleetwood Mac gets another grammy.
That's when it's time to quit because it means they are making garbage.

skcin

11-15-2005, 02:50 PM

eat some kishka

He can't, it's been stolen. :nod:

"Who stole the kishka....." Now THERE'S a great song! :lol:

dissention

11-15-2005, 03:34 PM

He can't, it's been stolen. :nod:

"Who stole the kishka....." Now THERE'S a great song! :lol:

Don't tell me you missed the kishka thread on the Christine board, Paula.

Moony

11-15-2005, 04:17 PM

Everything was looking good
Just like it should
Trusted you with all my heart
Never dreamt you'd tear me apart
So I went on a ride
Looking on the inside and not the outside
Rambled round and round
In and out of town

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

Signs were good
When I started out
No traffic anywhere
Just as well 'cos I didn't care
I felt for so long
Cracks appearing on your loving face
I saw them then I can see them now

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

Saw my dreams of love
As distant as the mountain tops
And just as far away beyond the point
Where I am today
So I picked myself up, 'cos I put myself down
And I in my car and drive around
No matter what was said
What it was that you did
All that's behind me now,
'Cos I'm moiving on

New York City to Mexico
I went to New Orleans to Boise, Idaho
On the shores of Gitche Gumee
In The Hidden Hills
I went to Key Biscayne, nothing there
So I came back again

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

So I picked myself up, 'cos I put myself down
And I get in my car and drive around
No matter what was said, what it was that you did
All that's behind me now
'Cos I'm moving on

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey

It was a bad journey
It was a bad bad journey
Good gawd, Chris. Please stop with the cliched rhymes!!

DavidMn

11-15-2005, 06:32 PM

We'd have to define what we mean specifically by "experimental" in the context of "Tusk," the typical radio playlists in 1979 against which "Tusk" offset something or other, the characteristics of "Say You Will," & the music on the radio & elsewhere at the time "Say You Will" was released.

There are different types of experimental: songcraft/going against the established grain in song structure (which is rare in popular music), instrumentation/using traditional instruments in unorthodox ways (something Lindsey used to dabble in), new approaches in building arrangements (e.g., building a dance track like "When Doves Cry" without a bass), & thematic conceptualization ("The Ninth Wave" suite by Kate Bush, for example).Great stuff:nod: