Stevie, Lindsey and Christine: all nominees for Songwriters Hall of Fame 2006 [Archive]

Livia

11-02-2005, 06:26 PM

http://www.therockradio.com/2005/11/pete-townshend-for-songwriter-hof.html

Wednesday, November 02, 2005
Pete Townshend for songwriter HoF
The list of nominees for the Songwriters Hall Of Fame class of 2006 is loaded with Rock And Roll Hall Of Famers. The "Performing" section of the ballot includes Who leader Pete Townshend, Neil Young, Kinks leader Ray Davies, Steely Dan's Walter Becker and Donald Fagen, current and former Fleetwood Mac members Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, and Christine McVie, and Felix Cavaliere and Eddie Brigati from the Rascals. Also being considered as performers are Leon Russell, Prince, country stars Mac Davis and Merle Haggard, and singer-songwriters Janis Ian and Joe South.

There's also a "Non-Performing" list that includes Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton collaborator Will Jennings, Hair composers Galt McDermott and James Rado, "Philly Soul" architect Thom Bell, and Motown veterans Henry Cosby and Sylvia Moy, among others.

Voters can choose two from the performing list and three from the non-performers, for a total of five. Ballots must be returned by November 15th, and the winners will be inducted next year.

Livia

11-02-2005, 06:33 PM

I'm also rooting for the Hair composers! One of my faaaavorite soundtracks evah! :p

dissention

11-02-2005, 06:33 PM

Voters can choose two from the performing list and three from the non-performers, for a total of five. Ballots must be returned by November 15th, and the winners will be inducted next year.

Expect Neil Young and Pete Townshend to take the performer slots.

wondergirl9847

11-02-2005, 06:52 PM

YESSSSS!!!!! They spelled Lindsey's name right!!!!!!!!!!! :blob1:

Oh, and yay about the whole songwriter hall of fame thingy. :laugh:

;)

danax6

11-02-2005, 06:54 PM

Expect Neil Young and Pete Townshend to take the performer slots.Crap.

Then again, 2 out of 3 for us would have been bad also. Who would we have wanted to win? Stevie? Lindsey? Christine? Maybe it's best they all three don't win then. ;)

xxxmx

11-02-2005, 09:26 PM

i love neil young, so that would make my day. especially if he was escorting homegirl nicks to pick up their trophies. :wavey:

cliffdweller

11-03-2005, 11:58 AM

Expect Neil Young and Pete Townshend to take the performer slots.

I'd have to say, if pressed, I'd vote for Neil too. He is my favorite songwriter of all time.

cliffdweller

11-03-2005, 11:59 AM

I'm also rooting for the Hair composers! One of my faaaavorite soundtracks evah! :p

You just reminded me of that movie, Treat Williams, oy vey :rolleyes::laugh:

dissention

11-03-2005, 12:58 PM

I'd have to say, if pressed, I'd vote for Neil too. He is my favorite songwriter of all time.

His new album is soooooooooo good. I put it on just to hear his voice, I love it on that thing.

jkmaletic

11-03-2005, 01:22 PM

His new album is soooooooooo good. I put it on just to hear his voice, I love it on that thing.

His VOICE??? :lol: OMG. The guy can write, but (IMO) the marble-mouth voice has got to go. Sorry. But, hey, if you dig him then that's all that matters. Not like there's plenty of people who don't get why people like Stevie's voice.

BTFLCHLD

11-03-2005, 01:37 PM

one would think they would provide current info :confused:

http://songwritershalloffame.org/nominees/

Before he joined Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey Buckingham was sketching out his brand of Brian Wilson-influenced pop with Stevie Nicks in the folky duo Buckingham Nicks. Mick Fleetwood invited the duo to join his band in late 1974. After Buckingham joined, the band's pop tendencies flowered under his direction. Not only did he provide the group with some brilliant, surprisingly dark pop songs, he sharpened the other members' songs with his production, arrangements, and breathtaking guitar playing. Buckingham left the band after their 1987 album, Tango in the Night, to concentrate on his solo work. While Buckingham's solo albums are deceptively simple and calm on the surface, there are complex arrangements and emotions beneath the smooth production. None of them have sold anything approaching the level of Rumours — or even Tango in the Night — yet they are rich, layered pop albums; his first solo record, Law & Order, had a hit single with "Trouble."

As the front-woman for Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks was also one of the group's most prolific writers. Major hit singles like "Dreams" and "Rhiannon" made Nicks a focal point of Fleetwood Mac, and in 1981 she took time off from the group to record her solo debut, Bella Donna, which hit Number One on the strength of the Top 20 hits "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" (a duet with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers), "Leather and Lace" (a duet with Don Henley) and "Edge of Seventeen (Just Like the White Winged Dove)." After a return to Fleetwood Mac for the 1982 album Mirage (which featured her hit "Gypsy"), Nicks released her second solo effort, The Wild Heart, highlighted by the Top Five smash "Stand Back." Rock a Little, which featured the single "Talk to Me," followed in 1985.

Christine McVie is a British-born singer who worked with Spencer Davis in the early '60s and later fronted Chicken Shack before going off on her own with a solo album in 1970. By then she had also contributed to recordings by Fleetwood Mac and become romantically involved with the group's bassist, John McVie. She then married McVie and officially joined the group, for which she has since served as vocalist/keyboardist/songwriter, contributing some of Fleetwood Mac's biggest hits. McVie made a second solo album in 1984.

Jyqm

11-03-2005, 01:45 PM

His VOICE??? :lol: OMG. The guy can write, but (IMO) the marble-mouth voice has got to go. Sorry.

Have you heard Prairie Wind? Neil's really in great voice throughout most of it, although there are a few tracks where he struggles to reach that upper register.

These days, though, I think Neil's voice is at its best when he embraces his lower register and kind of speak-sings on songs like "This Old Guitar," or "Bandit" from Greendale.

I'm with you, Diss, I think Prairie Wind is a great album, and it's one that really grows and sinks in with repeated listenings. I know a lot of folks think it's over-produced, but I really like the horns. And I know a lot of other folks think it's maudlin, but I think Neil is one of very few artists who has really earned the right to bust out that level of sincerity, and I think he really pulls it off on this record.

Now, when's he gonna get out and tour?

jkmaletic

11-03-2005, 01:57 PM

Have you heard Prairie Wind? Neil's really in great voice throughout most of it, although there are a few tracks where he struggles to reach that upper register.

These days, though, I think Neil's voice is at its best when he embraces his lower register and kind of speak-sings on songs like "This Old Guitar," or "Bandit" from Greendale.

I'm with you, Diss, I think Prairie Wind is a great album, and it's one that really grows and sinks in with repeated listenings. I know a lot of folks think it's over-produced, but I really like the horns. And I know a lot of other folks think it's maudlin, but I think Neil is one of very few artists who has really earned the right to bust out that level of sincerity, and I think he really pulls it off on this record.

Now, when's he gonna get out and tour?

Well, in all fairness, I haven't heard the new album. I'm just going from the memory of him singing "keep on roo-ckin' in the free wOOoorrllld..." So maybe his voice is better now? :shrug:

Livia

11-03-2005, 03:40 PM

You just reminded me of that movie, Treat Williams, oy vey :rolleyes::laugh:

Don't make fun of my boyfriend! :p

Neal

11-03-2005, 04:36 PM

Crap.

Then again, 2 out of 3 for us would have been bad also. Who would we have wanted to win? Stevie? Lindsey? Christine? Maybe it's best they all three don't win then. ;)

If I had to pick only one I'd have to go with Christine. Just because she deserves the recognition for being around the longest, imho... :woohoo:

ThePenguin

11-03-2005, 05:17 PM

If I had to pick only one I'd have to go with Christine. Just because she deserves the recognition for being around the longest, imho... :woohoo:

And she has written most of the hits...

-Lis

Brwn_eyes0511

11-03-2005, 06:08 PM

If I had to pick only one I'd have to go with Christine. Just because she deserves the recognition for being around the longest, imho... :woohoo:

And her songs are the most well known...

WHICH i know shouldn't matter, but...

GO CHRIS! :D

GypsySongbird

11-03-2005, 07:30 PM

And her songs are the most well known...
:D

and we just adore her!!!!! :nod:

Brwn_eyes0511

11-03-2005, 09:02 PM

and we just adore her!!!!! :nod:

yes, how we love chris!!!! :blob2: :blob2: :blob2:

ontheEdgeof17

11-03-2005, 09:03 PM

yes, how we love chris!!!! :blob2: :blob2: :blob2:

She is the best at writing meaningless pop songs.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-03-2005, 09:50 PM

She is the best at writing meaningless pop songs.

:laugh:

FM would be only a passing thought if not for the songs of Ms. McVie. However meaningless you find them, the public obviously disagreed. And her bank account didn't suffer either! :D

HomerMcvie

11-03-2005, 10:13 PM

:laugh:

FM would be only a passing thought if not for the songs of Ms. McVie. However meaningless you find them, the public obviously disagreed. And her bank account didn't suffer either! :D
His chiffon must be wedged in tight tonight...

dissention

11-03-2005, 10:15 PM

His chiffon must be wedged in tight tonight...

Let's be fair. Street Angel would put pretty much anyone in a pissy mood.

HomerMcvie

11-03-2005, 10:27 PM

Let's be fair. Street Angel would put pretty much anyone in a pissy mood.
It would put me in a "give me a refund" mood!:lol: :lol: :lol:

Brwn_eyes0511

11-03-2005, 10:32 PM

It would put me in a "give me a refund" mood!:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :xoxo:

Johnny Stew

11-03-2005, 10:32 PM

She is the best at writing meaningless pop songs.Thou shall not disparage the Queen, Curtis... off with thine head! ;)

David

11-03-2005, 11:02 PM

And she has written most of the hits...but that shouldn't matter in such an endeavor (even though it probably does). "Hit" is nothing but a commercial designation -- it makes no judgment on the intrinsic value of the song. If you're going to have such a beast as a Songwriting Hall of Fame, you need to recognize aesthetic quality, & then secondarily perhaps social relevance or influence. But if you're merely rewarding chart position (itself a function of playlists that reflect everything from corporate politics to sales figures), you might as well call yourself Billboard & the honors you're doling out gold & platinum designations.

All that said, Christine STILL deserves to be in the Hall of Fame -- her songs are artistically speaking the most skillfully crafted & performed.

However, I hate to attempt to separate the contributions of Fleetwood Mac to their series of classic albums because the general form is so consolidated from each band member's strengths & weaknesses. Trying to recover this person's or that person's special essence from the whole is akin to trying to recover the J strands from the Hebrew Bible.

Jyqm

11-04-2005, 01:53 AM

She is the best at writing meaningless pop songs.

But I thought Stevie was your favorite?

Brwn_eyes0511

11-04-2005, 02:06 AM

But I thought Stevie was your favorite?

OUCH! :lol:

Johnny Stew

11-04-2005, 02:27 AM

But I thought Stevie was your favorite?Which one are you, Jyqm... Statler or Waldorf?

Oh, wait, those positions are already filled here! :laugh:

ontheEdgeof17

11-04-2005, 03:04 AM

But I thought Stevie was your favorite?

ouch. My heart.

Johnny Stew

11-04-2005, 03:05 AM

ouch. My heart.It's ok, Curtie... your heart will go on! *thumps chest*

ontheEdgeof17

11-04-2005, 03:09 AM

It's ok, Curtie... your heart will go on! *thumps chest*

I'm The King of the Worlllllllllllllld

Brwn_eyes0511

11-04-2005, 03:27 AM

It's ok, Curtie... your heart will go on! *thumps chest*

This is my father.....I MEAN....my husband....RENEE!

Jyqm

11-04-2005, 04:34 AM

Which one are you, Jyqm... Statler or Waldorf?

Oh, wait, those positions are already filled here! :laugh:

Can I be Sam the Eagle?

Or the Swedish chef?

I can grow a mustache, if it'll help.

macfan 57

11-04-2005, 06:39 AM

All that said, Christine STILL deserves to be in the Hall of Fame -- her songs are artistically speaking the most skillfully crafted & performed.

Another vote here for the First Lady of Fleetwood Mac, Christine McVie.:blob2: :] :blob2: :]

Gailh

11-04-2005, 09:47 AM

Another vote here for the First Lady of Fleetwood Mac, Christine McVie.:blob2: :] :blob2: :]

Me too!

Gail

GypsySongbird

11-04-2005, 11:21 AM

Me too!

Gail

me three!!!! or have i said this alredy?.....never mind! long live the queen!!!!

GypsySongbird

11-04-2005, 11:23 AM

She is the best at writing meaningless pop songs.

hmm......so you find songbird meaningless? you also find brown eyes, never make me cry and why meaningless? well, its a free country but perhaps you should just take a few more listens

HomerMcvie

11-04-2005, 12:13 PM

hmm......so you find songbird meaningless? you also find brown eyes, never make me cry and why meaningless? well, its a free country but perhaps you should just take a few more listens
Nah, he won't. She doesn't spin around like a drunken sailor, so what's to get excited about?

ontheEdgeof17

11-04-2005, 12:35 PM

Nah, he won't. She doesn't spin around like a drunken sailor, so what's to get excited about?

Her lyrics are fantastic...it's her delivery that leaves me stale. I can't feel emotion from her songs.....same vocal...over and over and over....I do love her stuff...just not back to back. Total snooze fest sometimes.

GypsySongbird

11-04-2005, 01:05 PM

Her lyrics are fantastic...it's her delivery that leaves me stale. I can't feel emotion from her songs.....same vocal...over and over and over....I do love her stuff...just not back to back. Total snooze fest sometimes.

mmhmmm.......& welcome to the room sarah is riveting:p :sorry: :xoxo:

ontheEdgeof17

11-04-2005, 01:15 PM

mmhmmm.......& welcome to the room sarah is riveting:p :sorry: :xoxo:

I tend to think so....

"When you hang up the phone....you cease to exist..." That's good sh*t.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-04-2005, 02:09 PM

I tend to think so....

"When you hang up the phone....you cease to exist..." That's good sh*t.

Yes it is good sh*t!

So is talk of sailing on prayers...:wavey:

Johnny Stew

11-04-2005, 03:54 PM

Nah, he won't. She doesn't spin around like a drunken sailor, so what's to get excited about?Or maybe poor Christine is just the unfortunate victim of a growing backlash caused by some of her loutish and disrespectful fans? :shrug:

Brwn_eyes0511

11-04-2005, 03:56 PM

Or maybe poor Christine is just the unfortunate victim of a growing backlash caused by some of her loutish and disrespectful fans? :shrug:

I'm with you...

DavidMn

11-04-2005, 05:47 PM

Good for them. I hope they all make it!!:nod:

Jyqm

11-04-2005, 06:30 PM

I tend to think so....

"When you hang up the phone....you cease to exist..." That's good sh*t.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who actually likes "Welcome to the Room...Sara."

Jyqm

11-04-2005, 06:31 PM

Good for them. I hope they all make it!!:nod:

I'm gonna go ahead and say I hope none of them do, at least this time around. Pete Townshend and Neil both deserve this honor well before any of those three.

wondergirl9847

11-04-2005, 07:00 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who actually likes "Welcome to the Room...Sara."

I've always liked that one. Stevie is the best lyricist, but they all have merits for needing to be in the HOF. I don't think it should be based on lyrics alone, because Lindsey can rip my heart out, make me cry, laugh and hum along with only a strum of his guitar. :)

David

11-05-2005, 12:33 PM

I've always liked that one. Stevie is the best lyricist, but they all have merits for needing to be in the HOF.I don't think Stevie is a better lyricist than Lindsey or Chris. I think she just imbues her trippy words with more of herself, so they strike one as more truthful or passionate, whereas the other two typically stand back a bit & concoct a more rigorous, traditional structure.

I don't think any songwriter in Fleetwood Mac has ever been as skillful a lyricist as, say, Joni Mitchell or Dylan or any of the established greats. Those are people whose ability to wield just the right words in just the right rhythms pretty much outstrips the same ability of anyone in Fleetwood from '67 to the present. Not that it's totally conclusive, but it does say something about a widespread recognition that you can find English & literature courses devoted to Dylan or Joni Mitchell or Jim Morrison (as well as dozens of books & articles, even in peer-reviewed academic journals) on hundreds of university campuses; but you just don't find anything like that widespread study of Stevie's words or Peter Green's words or Christine's words.

In fact, that would make a good ledgie project: track down courses on the band's songwriters at colleges & universities, just for curiosity's sake.

Jyqm

11-05-2005, 02:36 PM

I don't think Stevie is a better lyricist than Lindsey or Chris. I think she just imbues her trippy words with more of herself, so they strike one as more truthful or passionate, whereas the other two typically stand back a bit & concoct a more rigorous, traditional structure.

I was actually just thinking yesterday that it's the fact that Stevie's lyrics are often so insrcutable and all-out bad that really gives some of her songs their charm, at least the more rocking ones. That kind of rambling relative meaninglessness, when she really belts it out and backs it up with bunch of rocking guitars or synths, is usually very effective. She makes it work.

David

11-05-2005, 05:38 PM

I was actually just thinking yesterday that it's the fact that Stevie's lyrics are often so insrcutable and all-out bad that really gives some of her songs their charm, at least the more rocking ones. That kind of rambling relative meaninglessness, when she really belts it out and backs it up with bunch of rocking guitars or synths, is usually very effective. She makes it work.Definitely. She's an auteur -- she imprints her defining characteristics & personal style on her work, & people respond to that rapturously. I sure do. That's what's so buzzy about my responses to her, something I've always been proud of: I give in to Stevie's personal style but I don't confuse my rapturous response with the intrinsic quality of those songs. Stevie makes those songs stupid & unforgettable, but without her style behind them, they'd only be stupid & forgettable.

MY OPINION of course to those of you who are consistently offended by my stating my views....

goldustsongbird

11-05-2005, 06:57 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who actually likes "Welcome to the Room...Sara."

I like it. :wavey:

Jyqm

11-05-2005, 07:11 PM

strandinthewind

11-05-2005, 07:13 PM

It's really a pretty amazing effect. She also has a knack for throwing senseless lines into a song that, taken as a whole, the whole thing is meaningless crap . . . .

Maybe to you. But to many it makes sense. Thus, her drawing power.

sparky

11-05-2005, 07:38 PM

Definitely. She's an auteur -- she imprints her defining characteristics & personal style on her work, & people respond to that rapturously. I sure do. That's what's so buzzy about my responses to her, something I've always been proud of: I give in to Stevie's personal style but I don't confuse my rapturous response with the intrinsic quality of those songs. Stevie makes those songs stupid & unforgettable, but without her style behind them, they'd only be stupid & forgettable.

Precisely and accurately put. Many of them would be. That is the root of the opinion that she is a triumph of style over substance. I think the ones that have been covered - Landslide in particular - tend to have an intrinsic quality that is fairly inarguable. But many of her songs are exactly as you state. Thus the reason she will never be in the same category of those she aspires to compare herself to. I have gotten into many lengthy arguments about this very subject. Most of which boils down to "Well I think this song is great. It makes me cry. I love it. Therefore she is great and her songs are great and that's all there is to it." :lol:

MY OPINION of course to those of you who are consistently offended by my stating my views....

I implore you to continue to post your eloquently stated and reasonably backed up opinions. And without apology to the walking wounded who are offended by every thing on earth that doesn't agree with their own precious veiws. I am really on a crusade to get the easily offended into therapy or on medication. What a bothersome, tiring turn that has been. I am over it.

Jyqm

11-05-2005, 07:44 PM

Maybe to you.

Well yeah. Duh.

Do you like my new signature?

_____
"MY OPINION of course to those of you who are consistently offended by my stating my views...." ~David

Johnny Stew

11-06-2005, 03:42 AM

I implore you to continue to post your eloquently stated and reasonably backed up opinions.Just be careful you don't praise him too much there, Sparks... David IS fond of "When I See You Again," you know.

ragandbone

11-06-2005, 04:29 AM

I don't think any songwriter in Fleetwood Mac has ever been as skillful a lyricist as, say, Joni Mitchell or Dylan or any of the established greats. Those are people whose ability to wield just the right words in just the right rhythms pretty much outstrips the same ability of anyone in Fleetwood from '67 to the present. Not that it's totally conclusive, but it does say something about a widespread recognition that you can find English & literature courses devoted to Dylan or Joni Mitchell or Jim Morrison (as well as dozens of books & articles, even in peer-reviewed academic journals) on hundreds of university campuses...
I recall Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen (fave)at the end of my textbooks in some literature survey classes, but I had no idea Jim Morrison was being studied in Universities. I loved the Doors, but IMO, Morrison's lyrics are pretty stinky when studied sober.

Gailh

11-06-2005, 08:06 AM

Of the nominees how many get inducted (is that the right word)?

Gail

Jyqm

11-06-2005, 08:51 AM

Of the nominees how many get inducted (is that the right word)?

Gail

"Voters can choose two from the performing list and three from the non-performers, for a total of five."

Gailh

11-06-2005, 01:05 PM

"Voters can choose two from the performing list and three from the non-performers, for a total of five."

Thanks for that.

Hmm. Interesting. So it's not possible for Stevie, Lindsey and Christine to be inducted at the same time?

Gail

GypsySongbird

11-06-2005, 01:14 PM

snowman

11-06-2005, 01:40 PM

I'm gonna go ahead and say I hope none of them do, at least this time around. Pete Townshend and Neil both deserve this honor well before any of those three.

I agree. Both have been around a long time and have contributed immensly.

dissention

11-06-2005, 03:01 PM

lol, i actually think the fletwood mac folks are better! actually, much better! i think lindsey, stevie & chris's lyrics are easily better than mitchals, but thats just my opinion.

In what ways?

Lyrically, I can't think of anything any of the Fleetwood Maccers have written that can even stand next to Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon" and "This Flight Tonight." Hell, even "For Free" pierces right through me on a lyrical level and remarkably illustrates the beauty of music into something that's almost tangible.

They don't have any remarkable ways with words and their lyrics generally come off as quite awkward, though Christine McVie comes closest amongst the three. Her simplistic lyrics can be trite and dull, but not only are they the most accessible, but they're the most human. Her writing contains no sense of pretension, no sly backslaps that congratulate herself for including bizarre references that no one but the writer can possibly understand. Being accessible does not equate with actually being good, but it does in her case. Sandwiched between two extremes, it becomes painfully obvious how much talent and discipline it takes to compose a simple little ditty about love without having to depend on any sort of schtick to sell it.

Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks essentially rely on stringing together various eccentricities and recylced motifs without much regard or forethought for the end result. Sometimes it works, other times it fails miserably.

JMO.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 04:31 PM

In what ways?

Lyrically, I can't think of anything any of the Fleetwood Maccers have written that can even stand next to Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon" and "This Flight Tonight." Hell, even "For Free" pierces right through me on a lyrical level and remarkably illustrates the beauty of music into something that's almost tangible.

They don't have any remarkable ways with words and their lyrics generally come off as quite awkward, though Christine McVie comes closest amongst the three. Her simplistic lyrics can be trite and dull, but not only are they the most accessible, but they're the most human. Her writing contains no sense of pretension, no sly backslaps that congratulate herself for including bizarre references that no one but the writer can possibly understand. Being accessible does not equate with actually being good, but it does in her case. Sandwiched between two extremes, it becomes painfully obvious how much talent and discipline it takes to compose a simple little ditty about love without having to depend on any sort of schtick to sell it.

Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks essentially rely on stringing together various eccentricities and recylced motifs without much regard or forethought for the end result. Sometimes it works, other times it fails miserably.

JMO.

Very interesting analysis of those three and I agree with you for the most part! I think Christine's lyrics are the most human and accessible. However aside from lyrics and speaking in terms of just musical arrangements I think THAT is where the Mac really shines. Christine writes/has written some of the catchiest hooks in pop music history!

David

11-06-2005, 05:28 PM

However aside from lyrics and speaking in terms of just musical arrangements I think THAT is where the Mac really shines. Christine writes/has written some of the catchiest hooks in pop music history!This is true. Catchy hooks & arrangements are where Fleetwood Mac (marque 1975-1987) really excels & stands apart from the herd.

markolas

11-06-2005, 06:56 PM

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 07:11 PM

Are you high??? :shocked:

I agree. When Stevie writes a song as wonderful as "Case of You"...then I'll take it back!

gldstwmn

11-06-2005, 07:29 PM

mmhmmm.......& welcome to the room sarah is riveting:p :sorry: :xoxo:

So is Everywhere and Skies The Limit.

sparky

11-06-2005, 07:40 PM

Just be careful you don't praise him too much there, Sparks... David IS fond of "When I See You Again," you know.

Everyone has a blind spot. David also loves drunked coked up Stevie. He loves the extremes. I think it is matter of reveling in her most pathetic and desperate moment.
I am sure he loves that I am talking about him like he isn't here.

dissention

11-06-2005, 07:55 PM

So is Everywhere and Skies The Limit.

:laugh:

C'mon, "Mystified" has me on the edge of my seat!

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 08:02 PM

So is Everywhere and Skies The Limit.

But people actually KNOW those songs! :p :laugh:

dissention

11-06-2005, 08:05 PM

But people actually KNOW those songs! :p :laugh:

I simply cannot tell you how many people I see bouncing up and down on their hydraulics-enhanced rides grooving to "Skies the Limit."

Who the hell knows that song?

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 08:08 PM

I simply cannot tell you how many people I see bouncing up and down on their hydraulics-enhanced rides grooving to "Skies the Limit."

Who the hell knows that song?

Well not THAT one as much as Everywhere. But I can promise you more people know Skies the Limit then they do Welcome to the room...Sara! At least Skies the Limit was a single that did manage to gain some impressions.

dissention

11-06-2005, 08:14 PM

At least Skies the Limit was a single that did manage to gain some impressions.

My bare foot in wet sand makes more of an impression.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 08:17 PM

My bare foot in wet sand makes more of an impression.

I mean radio impressions dear...it did crack AC right?

Serrart

11-06-2005, 08:44 PM

In what ways?

Lyrically, I can't think of anything any of the Fleetwood Maccers have written that can even stand next to Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon" and "This Flight Tonight." Hell, even "For Free" pierces right through me on a lyrical level and remarkably illustrates the beauty of music into something that's almost tangible.

They don't have any remarkable ways with words and their lyrics generally come off as quite awkward, though Christine McVie comes closest amongst the three. Her simplistic lyrics can be trite and dull, but not only are they the most accessible, but they're the most human. Her writing contains no sense of pretension, no sly backslaps that congratulate herself for including bizarre references that no one but the writer can possibly understand. Being accessible does not equate with actually being good, but it does in her case. Sandwiched between two extremes, it becomes painfully obvious how much talent and discipline it takes to compose a simple little ditty about love without having to depend on any sort of schtick to sell it.

Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks essentially rely on stringing together various eccentricities and recylced motifs without much regard or forethought for the end result. Sometimes it works, other times it fails miserably.

JMO.

What you find accessibile, couldn't be for me. Sometimes what is written as plain and simple is interpreted as the result of a complex summary of meanings, and sometimes is. Simplicity is a code too, it can be misleading as all the others, and hasn't any added value in respect to more hermetic approachs, or to the use of motifs, that is a language in itself, IMO. It all returns to the emotions a certain body of work has created, to the impact it had on people .

Romy

gldstwmn

11-06-2005, 09:21 PM

But people actually KNOW those songs! :p :laugh:

You're right. I've heard them in elevators all across the USA. :p

dissention

11-06-2005, 09:35 PM

You're right. I've heard them in elevators all across the USA. :p

Cool. I generally hear them in pharmacies.

Brwn_eyes0511

11-06-2005, 09:55 PM

You're right. I've heard them in elevators all across the USA. :p

And you hear Welcome to the room...Sara!....where exactly?

gldstwmn

11-06-2005, 10:19 PM

And you hear Welcome to the room...Sara!....where exactly?

In my heart, snark ass. :D

sparky

11-06-2005, 10:27 PM

And you hear Welcome to the room...Sara!....where exactly?

In a few of my more nagging and terrorized nightmares.

strandinthewind

11-06-2005, 10:29 PM

In a few of my more nagging and terrorized nightmares.

reading my PM's or soon thereafter :wavey:

Johnny Stew

11-06-2005, 11:01 PM

What you find accessibile, couldn't be for me. Sometimes what is written as plain and simple is interpreted as the result of a complex summary of meanings, and sometimes is. Simplicity is a code too, it can be misleading as all the others, and hasn't any added value in respect to more hermetic approachs, or to the use of motifs, that is a language in itself, IMO. It all returns to the emotions a certain body of work has created, to the impact it had on people.When it comes to technical proficiency, both lyrically and vocally, Stevie comes up lacking. That's a fact I've never denied (though the folks who dislike either me or my opinions, spin my comments to make it seem that way). But Stevie's lyrics have an abstract and esoteric quality that I react to viscerally. I enjoy the fact that her songs can't be easily pillaged for Hallmark greeting card-style quotes, and that the majority of them can't easily be bastardized as a cover tune for some other artist.

I respect something that's "perfectly" written (and, yes, there are times when I think Stevie could have better written a line or two), but, in the end, if the piece doesn't make me feel something, then I have no interest. Words are cold and impersonal... so it's up to the songwriter to infuse them with character and passion. And "know how" can never match instinct.

As I've said many times, to no avail, it's not that I'm blind to Stevie's limitations as a songwriter... it's just that, to me, it's those very limitations that make the songs so unique and appealing. She doesn't write songs that could have been written by anyone... she writes songs that could only have been written by Stevie Nicks, right or wrong, good or bad.
Sometimes her viewpoint is keen, other times it's myopic or off-kilter... but it's always unapologetically Stevie's.

Otherwise she might as well just be Diane Warren or Desmond Child.

dissention

11-07-2005, 12:30 AM

What you find accessibile, couldn't be for me.

That's why I stated that it was my opinion, Romy.

GypsySongbird

11-07-2005, 01:56 PM

Are you high??? :shocked:

must be :D

GypsySongbird

11-07-2005, 01:57 PM

In a few of my more nagging and terrorized nightmares.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

jadegypsy

11-07-2005, 05:23 PM

Funny this whole Joni Mitchelle thing...I never thought she would end up ranked below Chris or Lindsey...

I gotta say after listening to the album Blue she ranks up there with the best: Lennon/McCartney, Morrison (and yes he belongs), Page/Plant, CSN&Y...Dylan is of course in another building...

And if pushed I might even say Joni is better then Nicks, simply b/c Joni writes songs on more variations of themes (environment, protest, love, loss...)But Stevie is Stevie and her best songs rank up there with anyone, just that I find they are dealing on a much more personal level then a global level and that is what sometimes makes me find her limited...everything is very much an "I" perspective.

As for Chis's simpler songs being trite, well it's kinda like calling McCartneys songs trite, they may not be as abstract as her bandmates songs but they are some of the best constructed pop songs around...but unlike McCartneys I find few of Chris's songs that have much beneth the surface...so I don't rank her with the previously mentioned writters.

GypsySongbird

11-07-2005, 05:38 PM

but unlike McCartneys I find few of Chris's songs that have much beneth the surface...so I don't rank her with the previously mentioned writters.

i actually think theres alot more to some of chris's stuff than she lets on, if you really look, but that might just be me, but even so if you look, there could be deeper undercurrants, maybe not as deep, but about her personally rather than like a global scale. anyway, thats just me.

oh and about the whole mitchal thing, its partly because i just cannot stand the woman, and i just dont think shes very good!:sorry:

Jyqm

11-07-2005, 06:54 PM

oh and about the whole mitchal thing, its partly because i just cannot stand the woman, and i just dont think shes very good!:sorry:

I can understand just not liking her because you don't like her voice or her music or something, but how does one think Christine is a great lyricist but not Joni Mitchell?

jadegypsy

11-07-2005, 10:02 PM

Thanks Jyqm, I was having the same thought...It would be like saying Dylans music is no good b/c his voice is to ones dislike...

Although Joni can be an aquired taste, when I first heard her I didn't like how high her voice was, then one day I just bought a record to see what all the fuss was about (her first rec I think) and that was it...especially after I picked up Blue and heard River...

An Gypsysongbird, yes there may be some deeper undercurrents to Chris's songs, I do adore Songbird and You'll Never Make Me Cry b/c they seem to go beyond the fluff, but on a whole I don't think the songs try to go beyond the pop feel. In the Mac Chris I think is the most surface writter, not that that's bad, it just different...Stevie and Lindseys songs can have many different layers to them...but they are not nearly as talented at writting a great pop song as evidenced by SYW (In fact Stevies best pop song Dreams isn't nearly as catchy as most of Chris's, despite it hitting #1).

The best songwritters can do both quite well (Dylan with Blowing in the Wind, a very accessable song, and Rolling Stone a very complex song) or Joni with "Turn Me on I'm a Radio" to Blue or River (both have a bit more then surface meaning). In truth that's why I would be hesitant to rate any of the Mac writters as "the best songwritters." Nicks comes the closest for me since on her best songs she can be very accessable and yet still meaningful, SS, Gypsy, Dreams, GDW, Sara, EO17...genreal public can love them, poets can analyze them...I can't see a poet analyzing any of Chris's lyrics...Lindsey perhaps, but he gets so mirred in his own angst that he sometimes misses the connection.

Gailh

11-08-2005, 02:00 PM

I think Christine only writes about what she feels comfortable with.

She's said herself that she's a "pretty basic love-song writer".

she's also said after the release of ITM that she's tried to write songs with more of a political edge but she sounds like a "pretentious twot"

Gail

GypsySongbird

11-08-2005, 04:26 PM

I can understand just not liking her because you don't like her voice or her music or something, but how does one think Christine is a great lyricist but not Joni Mitchell?

i dont know, i know i may be the only one but its just my personal opinion, i dont know how my brain works! it just does somehow:)

JazmenFlowers

11-08-2005, 05:37 PM