Rove testifying without immunity

[strandinthewind]

Rove to give additional testimony in leak inquiry

Prosecutors won't guarantee that Bush advisor won't be indicted

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal prosecutors have accepted an offer from presidential adviser Karl Rove to give 11th hour testimony in the case of a CIA officer's leaked identity but have warned they cannot guarantee he won't be indicted, according to people directly familiar with the investigation.

The persons, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, said Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has not made any decision yet on whether to file criminal charges against the longtime confidant of President Bush or others.

The U.S. attorney's manual requires prosecutors not to bring witnesses before a grand jury if there is a possibility of future criminal charges unless they are notified in advance that their grand jury testimony can be used against them in a later indictment.

Rove has already made at least three grand jury appearances and his return at this late stage in the investigation is unusual.

The prosecutor did not give Rove similar warnings before his earlier grand jury appearances.

Rove offered in July to return to the grand jury for additional testimony and Fitzgerald accepted that offer Friday after taking grand jury testimony from the formerly jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller.

Before accepting the offer, Fitzgerald sent correspondence to Rove's legal team making clear that there was no guarantee he wouldn't be indicted at a later point as required by the rules.

Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, said Thursday he would not comment on any ongoing discussion he has had with Fitzgerald's office but that he has been assured no decisions on charges have been made. Rove would first have to receive what is known as a target letter if he is about to be indicted.

"I can say categorically that Karl has not received a target letter from the special counsel. The special counsel has confirmed that he has not made any charging decisions in respect to Karl," Luskin said.

He said that Rove "continues to be cooperative voluntarily" with the special counsel investigation and "beyond that, any communication I have or may have in the future are going to be treated as completely confidential."

For almost two years, Fitzgerald has been investigating whether someone in the Bush administration leaked the identity of Valerie Plame as a CIA officer for political reasons. Dozens of government officials were interviewed and box loads of documents collected.

Reporters have been called before a grand jury to testify about their conversations with Rove and I. Lewis Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff.

Leaking the identity of a covert agent can be a crime, but it must be done knowingly and the legal threshold for proving such a crime is high. Fitzgerald could also seek charges against anyone he thinks lied to investigators in the case.

The leak investigation stems from a July 2003 syndicated column by Robert Novak identifying Plame as a CIA operative. Plame is married to former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, who says his wife's identity was disclosed to discredit his assertions that the Bush administration exaggerated Iraq's nuclear capabilities to build the case for war.

Miller spent 85 days in jail before agreeing to testify before the grand jury. The newspaper identified Libby as her source.

Rove, Bush's top adviser on political strategy and policy, has known the president for three decades. He worked for Bush as far back as 1978, when he unsuccessfully ran for Congress. Rove orchestrated Bush's campaigns for Texas governor and president, then brought his political skills into the White House.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/06/cialeak.rove.ap/index.html

[dissention]

There was an article printed yesterday, I forget where, that talked about how Rove has been MIA since the middle of September. Something is going down, no two ways about it.

[strandinthewind]

There was an article printed yesterday, I forget where, that talked about how Rove has been MIA since the middle of September. Something is going down, no two ways about it.

More like "someone" :eek:

[dissention]

More like "someone" :eek:

I've been crossing my fingers for something big to happen ever since Stephanopolous let it slip that Bush and Cheney were involved. I know it's futile to hope that they go down, but by golly, it comforts me during these trying times of terra'ists and amid worries that we're not good conservers. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I've been crossing my fingers for something big to happen ever since Stephanopolous let it slip that Bush and Cheney were involved. I know it's futile to hope that they go down, but by golly, it comforts me during these trying times of terra'ists and amid worries that we're not good conservers. :laugh:

Now now - don't go all nucleer on me :cool:

[dissention]

Now now - don't go all nucleer on me :cool:

Shouldn't that be "nucular"? :lol:

[The Tower]

Now now - don't go all nucleer on me :cool:
Get it right!! It's pronounced "nuke-u-lur".........

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[dissention]

Get it right!! It's pronounced "nuke-u-lur".........

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Great minds, babe.

[The Tower]

Shouldn't that be "nucular"? :lol:
Jinx!!!!! :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Shouldn't that be "nucular"? :lol:

LOL at you and your little Towie too :laugh:

I was unsure how to type that pronunciation :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Muahahahahahahahahahahahahaah! :]

[gldstwmn]

There was an article printed yesterday, I forget where, that talked about how Rove has been MIA since the middle of September. Something is going down, no two ways about it.

Of course. That's why commander Cuckoo Bananas has been on television for the last few days talking about bird flu and terra. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

I've been crossing my fingers for something big to happen ever since Stephanopolous let it slip that Bush and Cheney were involved. I know it's futile to hope that they go down, but by golly, it comforts me during these trying times of terra'ists and amid worries that we're not good conservers. :laugh:

According to the CNN crawl, we're being asked to use energy efficient light bulbs now. They're probably made by some subsidiary of Kellogg, Brown and Root.

[strandinthewind]

Of course. That's why commander Cuckoo Bananas has been on television for the last few days talking about bird flu and terra. :laugh:

I guess they figure scaring the shiitte out of the masses worked the last four times :mad:

[gldstwmn]

I guess they figure scaring the shiitte out of the masses worked the last four times :mad:

Well, they just issued an alert for the NYC Subways. :distress:

[dissention]

Well, they just issued an alert for the NYC Subways. :distress:

Just in time for the indictments. :D

[Nixxxed]

Well, they just issued an alert for the NYC Subways. :distress:
And wasn't there a shutdown of the White House yesterday due to an "incident"?

[strandinthewind]

Well, they just issued an alert for the NYC Subways. :distress:

Call me a conspirtacy theorist, but I would not put it past Rove to blow up a subway to take the heat off W, etc.

I mean they lied about the reasons for attacking another country when W failed to get OBL :eek:

[Nixxxed]

Call me a conspirtacy theorist, but I would not put it past Rove to blow up a subway to take the heat off W, etc.

I mean they lied about the reasons for attacking another country when W failed to get OBL :eek:
Me too.

And I have a question - NYPD news conference on right now - they're leaving the threat level at Orange on the color wheel. If they have such specifics, detail, designated targets why doesn't it go up to red? Or would they only do that after the fact?

[macfanken]

Well, they just issued an alert for the NYC Subways. :distress:


I don't understand... how can there be a terra alert? Didn't Dubya say we were fighting the terra-ists "over there" so we wouldn't have to fight them here? How can they be in two places at the same time? :shocked: I thought the war in Iraq (which has gone fantastically, by the way) was supposed the make us safer? :shocked: Errr... I'm so confused.

[gldstwmn]

Call me a conspirtacy theorist, but I would not put it past Rove to blow up a subway to take the heat off W, etc.


Nor would I. This is exactly how this little cabal works.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/07/politics/07leak.html?ei=5088&en=99adce81987f89a2&ex=1286337600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

October 7, 2005
Rove Ordered to Talk Again in Leak Inquiry
By DAVID JOHNSTON
WASHINGTON, Oct. 6 - The special prosecutor in the C.I.A. leak case has summoned Karl Rove, the senior White House adviser, to return next week to testify to a federal grand jury in a step that could mean charges will be filed in the case, lawyers in the case said Thursday.

The prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, has held discussions in recent days with lawyers for several administration officials suggesting that he is considering whether to charge them with a crime over the disclosure of an intelligence operative's identity in a 2003 newspaper column.

Mr. Fitzgerald is said by some of the lawyers to have indicated that he has not made up his mind about whether to accuse anyone of wrongdoing and will use the remaining days before the grand jury's term expires on Oct. 28 to decide.

Mr. Rove has appeared before the grand jury on three previous occasions.

Meanwhile, Mr. Fitzgerald has indicated that he is not entirely finished with Judith Miller, the reporter for The New York Times who recently testified before the grand jury after serving 85 days in jail. According to a lawyer familiar with the case, Mr. Fitzgerald has asked Ms. Miller to meet him next Tuesday to further discuss her conversations with I. Lewis Libby, the vice president's chief of staff.

Ms. Miller went to jail rather than divulge the identity of her source, but agreed to testify after Mr. Libby released her from a pledge of confidentiality.

Mr. Fitzgerald has not indicated whether he plans to summon Ms. Miller for further testimony before the grand jury.

Robert D. Luskin, a lawyer for Mr. Rove, said that Mr. Rove has not received a target letter, which are sometimes used by prosecutors to advise people that they are likely to be charged with a crime. Mr. Luskin said Thursday that "the special counsel has said that he has made no charging decision."

Mr. Fitzgerald's conversations with lawyers in recent days have cast a cloud over the inquiry, sweeping away the confidence once expressed by a number of officials and their lawyers who have said that he was unlikely to find any illegality.

In coming days, the lawyers said, Mr. Fitzgerald is likely to request that several other White House officials return to the grand jury to testify about their actions in the case - appearances that are believed to be pivotal as the prosecutor proceeds toward a charging decision.

Mr. Fitzgerald is also re-examining grand jury testimony by Mr. Libby, the lawyers said, but it is unknown whether he has been asked to appear again before the grand jury. Mr. Libby's lawyer, Joseph A. Tate, did not respond to telephone messages left on Thursday at his office.

Mr. Luskin said that he had offered to have Mr. Rove return to the grand jury if needed to clarify any questions that were raised by the testimony in July by Matthew Cooper, a reporter for Time magazine who was questioned about a conversation that he had with Mr. Rove in July 2003.

"Karl's consistent position is that he will cooperate any time, any place," Mr. Luskin said.

Mr. Rove has been caught up in the inquiry since the F.B.I. began investigating the matter in 2003. He has told investigators that he spoke with the columnist Robert D. Novak a few days after the operative's husband wrote an Op-Ed article for The Times, a lawyer in the case has said. In that conversation, Mr. Rove said that he learned the operative's name from the columnist and the circumstances in which her husband traveled to Africa.

But at the end of that conversation, Mr. Rove told Mr. Novak that he had already heard the outlines of the columnist's account.

The conversation with Mr. Novak took place several days before Mr. Rove spoke with a second reporter, Mr. Cooper. Mr. Cooper said later in an e-mail message to his editors that Mr. Rove had talked about the operative, although not by name.

In recent days, Mr. Rove has been less visible than usual at the White House, fueling speculation that he is distancing himself from Mr. Bush or has been sidelined. But according to a senior administration official, Mr. Rove and his wife are on a long-planned trip visiting colleges with their teenage son. Several lawyers who have been involved in the case expressed surprise and concern over the recent turn of events and are increasingly convinced that Mr. Fitzgerald could be poised to charge someone with a crime for discussing with journalists the identity of a C.I.A. officer.

The C.I.A operative was Valerie Wilson, also known by her maiden name, Valerie Plame. Her identity was first publicly disclosed in a July 14, 2003, newspaper column by Mr. Novak, which suggested that she had a role in arranging a 2002 trip to Africa by her husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, a former ambassador. The purpose of the trip was to look into intelligence reports that Iraq had sought nuclear fuel from Niger.

Mr. Novak's column was published a week after Mr. Wilson wrote an Op-Ed article in The Times on July 6, 2003, discussing his trip. Mr. Wilson wrote that he traveled to Africa at the request of the C.I.A. after the office of Vice President Dick Cheney had raised questions about the possible uranium sales. Mr. Wilson wrote that he concluded that it was "highly doubtful" that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear material from Niger.

Mr. Fitzgerald has focused on whether there was a deliberate effort to retaliate against Mr. Wilson for his column and its criticism of the Bush administration's Iraq policy. Recently lawyers said that they believed the prosecutor may be applying new legal theories to bring charges in the case.

One new approach appears to involve the possible use of Chapter 37 of the federal espionage and censorship law, which makes it a crime for anyone who "willfully communicates, delivers, transfers or causes to be communicated" to someone "not entitled to receive it" classified information relating the national defense matters.

Under this broad statute, a government official or a private citizen who passed classified information to anyone else in or outside the government could potentially be charged with a felony, if they transferred the information to someone without a security clearance to receive it.

The lawyers who discussed the investigation declined to be identified by name citing the ongoing nature of the inquiry and Mr. Fitzgerald's requests not to talk about it.

Bill Keller, the executive editor of The Times, said Ms. Miller had been cautioned by her lawyers not to discuss the substance of her grand jury testimony until Mr. Fitzgerald finished questioning her.

"We have launched a vigorous reporting effort that I hope will answer outstanding questions about Judy's part in this drama," Mr. Keller said. "This development may slow things down a little, but we owe our readers as full a story as we can tell, as soon as we can tell it."

[strandinthewind]

Rove to Bush: It Wasn't Me

Friday, October 07, 2005



WASHINGTON — White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told President Bush and others that he never engaged in an effort to disclose a CIA operative's identity to discredit her husband's criticism of the administration's Iraq policy, according to people with knowledge of Rove's account in the investigation.

They said Rove's denial to Bush occurred during a brief conversation in July 2003, shortly after media reports revealed that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame (search), worked as a covert CIA operative (search).

Those with direct knowledge of evidence gathered in the criminal investigation spoke to The Associated Press only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy.

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald (search) is wrapping up an investigation into whether Rove; Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby; or other White House aides divulged Plame's identity in violation of federal law.

Besides the disclosure of Plame's identity, the investigation is examining whether presidential aides mishandled classified information, made false statements or obstructed justice.

Rove is slated to testify before the grand jury soon for a fourth time, although prosecutors have told him they no longer can assure he will avoid indictment. Rove offered in July to return to the grand jury for additional testimony, and Fitzgerald accepted that offer after taking grand jury testimony from the formerly jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller.

The discussion with Bush, along with others, was general and did not get into specifics concerning Rove's contacts with two reporters, Time magazine's Matthew Cooper and syndicated columnist Robert Novak (search), who wrote stories identifying Plame, the people familiar with Rove's account said.

They said Bush asked Rove to assure him he was not involved in an effort to divulge Plame's identity and punish Wilson, and the longtime confidant assured him so. He answered similarly when White House press secretary Scott McClellan asked a similar question.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, declined Friday to comment on the specifics of the discussions with Bush but confirmed his client maintains — then and now — he did not engage in an effort to disclose Plame's identity.

Rove has told a grand jury he first learned of Plame's work for the CIA from news reporters and then discussed it with Novak and Cooper.

"Did Karl purposely set out to disclose Valerie Plame's identity in order to punish Joe Wilson for his criticism? The answer is, 'No,"' Luskin said. "That was his answer in July 2003 and in October 2003 (when he first testified) And it remains his answer today."

"He always truthfully denied that he was never part of any campaign to punish Joe Wilson by disclosing the identity of his wife," Luskin said.

In addition to Rove's discussions with reporters, investigators are also looking into a delay in learning about Rove's contact with Cooper and an e-mail between Rove and now-National Security Adviser Steve Hadley (search) that referenced the conversation.

Cooper's contact with Rove did not come up in Rove's first interview or grand jury appearance, but he volunteered the information and provided the email during a second grand jury appearance.

Wilson, Plame's husband, went public on July 6, 2003, with criticism of Bush administration officials, suggesting they manipulated intelligence to justify the Iraq war.

Eight days later, Novak revealed the identity of Wilson's wife, giving her maiden name, Valerie Plame, the name she used as a covert CIA officer. Novak said his information about Wilson's wife had come from two senior administration officials.

Rove acknowledged talking to Novak about the story. Cooper's wrote a similar story a few days after also talking with Rove.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171636,00.html

[dissention]

Rove to Bush: It Wasn't Me

I can rest easy now.

:rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

I can rest easy now.

:rolleyes:

It is interesting in light of his testimony. He must be confident. In any event, we will hopefully know something soon as the espiration date is approaching.

[dissention]

It is interesting in light of his testimony. He must be confident. In any event, we will hopefully know something soon as the espiration date is approaching.

My dreams of some of these thugs going down are being dashed. It pains me.

And I know it's silly, but this avian bird flu **** is freaking my ass out. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

. . . And I know it's silly, but this avian bird flu **** is freaking my ass out. :lol:

Well, it is scary. But, it is unlikely it will amnount to anything. I mean there are no huge epidemics of it anywhere in the world that I know of. So, why should we assume that will happen here when the US is far cleaner regarding the spread of germs that most of the other countries in the world, esp. in places like China.

[dissention]

I mean there are no huge epidemics of it anywhere in the world that I know of.

Because it hasn't mutated yet. It's spread to birds in Turkey now, though.

So, why should we assume that will happen here when the US is far cleaner regarding the spread of germs that most of the other countries in the world, esp. in places like China.

Because it's scary, that's why. :laugh: Drowning in your own fluid? I go limp just thinking about it.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^^^
Well, there is that :laugh: But, it is still a very remote chance. So, don't worry your pretty little head :xoxo: