View Full Version : Favorite Albums of 2005
dissention
10-04-2005, 05:28 PM
At Jyqm's insistence, here is a thread for you to tell us all what your favorite albums of 2005 are so far.
Fire away, babes.
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 05:30 PM
Without question: Language,Sex,Violence,Other?-Stereophonics :thumbsup:
Off the top of my head...
Erasure - Nightbird
Rob Thomas - ...something to be
Depeche Mode - Playing The Angel (not released until 10/18, but I know I'll love it :))
Coldplay - X&Y
New Order - Waiting For The Sirens Call
markolas
10-04-2005, 05:42 PM
The Bonnie Raitt album is the only thing from 2005 I've bought this year. I've been on kind of an old-school jazz kick. :sorry:
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 05:42 PM
Off the top of my head...
Erasure - Nightbird
Rob Thomas - ...something to be
Depeche Mode - Playing The Angel (not released until 10/18, but I know I'll love it :))
Coldplay - X&Y
My friend absolutely raves about that Coldplay cd.
ryan8472
10-04-2005, 05:44 PM
Let's put You Could Have It So Much Better on there now Josh. We've both already had it for a while. :laugh: It's AMAZING. :nod:
dissention
10-04-2005, 05:44 PM
Bowery Songs - Joan Baez
Bleed Like Me - Garbage
You're Speaking My Language - Juliette and the Licks
Twin Cinema - New Pornographers
You Could Have It So Much Better - Franz Ferdinand
Prairie Wind - Neil Young
Moonlight Serenade - Carly Simon (bite me)
dissention
10-04-2005, 05:46 PM
Let's put You Could Have It So Much Better on there now Josh. We've both already had it for a while. :laugh: It's AMAZING. :nod:
Get the DualDisc, the video footage has a Bike!Race to a mailbox. :laugh:
It's too good. Every song owns.
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 05:46 PM
Bowery Songs - Joan Baez
Bleed Like Me - Garbage
You're Speaking My Language - Juliette and the Licks
Twin Cinema - New Pornographers
You Could Have It So Much Better - Franz Ferdinand
Prairie Wind - Neil Young
Moonlight Serenade - Carly Simon (bite me)
Interesting. I had no idea Joan Baez had a new album out.
dissention
10-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Interesting. I had no idea Joan Baez had a new album out.
It's a live album. :nod: Worth getting for "Motherland," "Dink's Song," and "Christmas In Washington" alone. Her voice is as beautiful as ever.
Her last studio album Dark Chords On A Big Guitar is a masterpiece, too.
heyjupiter678
10-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Life in Slow Motion - David Gray
Cold Roses / Jacksonville City Nights - Ryan Adams
Extraordinary Machine - Fiona Apple
The Beekeeper - Tori Amos
Devils & Dust - Bruce Springsteen
Amos Lee - Amos Lee
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 05:52 PM
It's a live album. :nod: Worth getting for "Motherland," "Dink's Song," and "Christmas In Washington" alone. Her voice is as beautiful as ever.
Her last studio album Dark Chords On A Big Guitar is a masterpiece, too.
No doubt about it. Her voice is one of the best. :thumbsup:
face of glass
10-04-2005, 06:01 PM
http://www.neworderonline.com/Photos/Cache/6317.1511.discog.jpg
We've got violence, wars, and killing too, ALL SHRUNK DOWN IN A TWO FOOT TUBE!! I've heard the world is a beautiful place, WITH VIOLENCE WARS AND THE HUMAN RACE!!
New Order have become a parody of themselves, all down to the cover art which has none of Peter Saville's former brilliance, all down to the generic dance beats they now employ (whereas before they used to craft far more complex rhythmic patterns and helped shaping an entire genre) and all down to Bernard Sumner's lyricism which has grown weaker year by year. Now they're miserable bastards without drugs. I like it!
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 06:03 PM
Oh good lord, how could I forget whatever the hell Carrie Underwood's album is..... :rolleyes: :p :lol:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 06:09 PM
"Add To The Beauty" - Sara Groves
"Rock of Ages...Hymns & Faith" - Amy Grant
"Something To Be..." - Rob Thomas
"Now What" - Lisa Marie Presley
At Jyqm's insistence, here is a thread for you to tell us all what your favorite albums of 2005 are so far.
Fire away, babes.
This is difficult, because there are a number of albums that may or may not make it to the top of my list. There are those I haven't bought yet (like the new Franz Ferdinand), and there are all those that I've bought in the past couple weeks but haven't had enough time to absorb enough to decide if they're truly great or merely good (Ryan Adams, Neil Young, Super Furry Animals among them). So I won't rank, since the year's not over yet, but among the more distinguished recordings I've heard this year:
~Iron & Wine, Woman King and Under The Reins. Two EPs (the latter a collaboration with Calexico) which really broaden Sam Beam's sonic palette in some very intriguing ways. The range and depth on instrumentation on both of these makes me very excited for his next full-length.
~Bright Eyes, I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning. A really solid, frequently catchy, even more frequently moving album from Mr. Oberst. But I can't help but think that it's somehow lesser than Lifted... Still, I never don't enjoy listening to this. (I must admit, after all these months, I still haven't gotten around to listening to Digital Ash...)
~Sufjan Stevens, Come On! Feel The Illinoise! This album ups the ante in a big way for Sufjan's 50 states project. It's like a Broadway musical of indie pop, in the best way possible. Lots of tinkling epic anthems alongside lots of beautiful hushed folk songs with a few wild cards thrown in as well. There's so much going on in this album, it's just bursting at the seams.
~Bruce Springsteen, Devils & Dust. A better-than-good solo offering from Bruce, though as always the songs truly come alive in concert. But there are some beautiful, haunting stories told here, about folks who have simply slipped through the cracks of life and/or love and are just trying to climb back up.
~Matt Sweeney & Bonnie 'Prince' Billy, Superwolf. Will Oldham is usually haunting enough on his own, but with Sweeney's understated guitar licks propping him up and slinking around his voice, this album leaves a very deep mark. Gives me shivers just thinking about it, even though a few of the songs are almost comical.
~Kanye West, Late Registration. Oh me oh my. Kanye takes every rule in hip-hop and turns them completely upside-down. You can put on some headphones and get completely lost in all the musical tricks and tropes going on all over this album, without even paying attention to Kanye and friends' words (though those are pretty top-notch most of the time, too).
~Common, Be. Woo! This is a truly beautiful hip-hop/soul album. As great as Kanye is on his own, he's just better when he's producing for someone else; he needs somebody else in the spotlight to keep him from going too off-the-wall and give hi some focus. If Late Registration is a sprawling, messy Tusk of a hip-hop record, then Be is this year's Rumours: concise and cohesive but wonderfully lush and full of sunny musical ideas that all come to fruition and totally pay off.
So there's my list, but I have to say, I'm kind of dissatisfied with it. Almost all of the music on it seems to fall into one of two general sonic palettes (folky guitar or hip-hop). 2005 so far just doesn't seem to have had the richness of diversity that 2004 did (at least as far as my favorite records go). But I fear that might be the case with a number of upcoming years. 2004 was a banner 12 months for music, in my mind, and it's going to be very difficult for subsequent years to live up to it. My top 10 of 2004, for the record, and in some semblance of order:
1. William Shatner, Has Been.
2. Arcade Fire, Funeral.
3. Ted Leo/Pharmacists, Shake The Sheets.
4. Tom Waits, Real Gone.
5. Loretta Lynn, Van Lear Rose.
6. Wilco, A Ghost Is Born.
7. Willie Nelson, It Always Will Be.
8. Iron & Wine, Our Endless Numbered Days.
9. Modest Mouse, Good News For People Who Love Bad News.
10. Franz Ferdinand, Franz Ferdinand.
And I had to leave off The Roots, The Black Keys, and Elvis Costello! Way to go, 2004. Way to go.
The Bonnie Raitt album is the only thing from 2005 I've bought this year. I've been on kind of an old-school jazz kick. :sorry:
Not to be confused with all the albums from 2005 you bought last year, right?
What jazz have you been buying/listening to? (There are so many "old schools" to choose from!)
shackin'up
10-04-2005, 06:15 PM
I don't have a big list yet.
But Eels- Blinking lights and other Revelations is on it. Definately.
Come on now, people! Reading straight lists of album titles is boring and completely uninformative. What is it you like about these albums? If they're your favorites of the year, surely you must have something to say about them beyond their names!
shackin'up
10-04-2005, 06:18 PM
Come on now, people! Reading straight lists of album titles is boring and completely uninformative. What is it you like about these albums? If they're your favorites of the year, surely you must have something to say about them beyond their names!
When I'm ready. This thread is fresh. And I like to think about this before i barf ****.
dissention
10-04-2005, 06:21 PM
Come on now, people! Reading straight lists of album titles is boring and completely uninformative. What is it you like about these albums? If they're your favorites of the year, surely you must have something to say about them beyond their names!
Later on I will. I'm too consumed with Frvade right now.
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 06:25 PM
Come on now, people! Reading straight lists of album titles is boring and completely uninformative. What is it you like about these albums? If they're your favorites of the year, surely you must have something to say about them beyond their names!
Well for me, Language, Sex Violence,Other is by far the best Stereophonics album they've put out in their almost 10 year existence. I'm not much of a musical expert, but the passion each one of their songs on this record has is unbelieveable, especially Dakota.
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 06:26 PM
Later on I will. I'm too consumed with Frvade right now.
Tell me about it.... :confused: :shocked:
dissention
10-04-2005, 06:26 PM
Tell me about it.... :confused: :shocked:
If anyone can help with level 10, I'm open to it. :wavey:
If anyone can help with level 10, I'm open to it. :wavey:
Is that the University of Chicago one? Check out the name of the image. Where there is an a...
Also, I totally forgot about Wynton Marsalis' new album Live At The House Of Tribes. Some really great small combo jazz, especially on the ballads. Very late 50s/early 60s style, to my ears.
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 06:39 PM
Ok...what I like about them...
Sara Groves "Add To The Beauty" - (mind you it just came out as of today! lol). "Sara offers an insightful and accessible view into the complexities of Christianity being walked out in a fallen world." That quote from www.musichristian.com is perhaps the best way I know how to describe Sara and her songwriting, she is simply wonderful. Her newest album is no different, and it is IMHO her very best!
This is what Sara herself has to say about the new album...
"IN MY MIND THE NEW ALBUM IS ABOUT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, HOW IT REALLY DOES EXIST, AND IS AS REAL AS YOUR CAR OR YOUR KRISPY KREME DONUT, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR PROBLEMS. IF WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT, GOD HAS INVITED US TO LIVE in His kingdom in the midst of our regular existence. It is not a place of isolation and perfection, it is not far away where we cannot reach it. It happens at all the places where we intersect with each other. I hope the album is another reminder that the kingdom of God doesn't just come in the rally or worship event. It comes when I speak respectfully to my husband, and refrain from letting my anger spill over onto my kids, when I have an opportunity to gossip and refrain, when I open up my home, when I mess up royally, and have the stuff to go apologize, when I refuse to blame everyone else for my problems. These songs are about the beautiful character that grows out of seeing people through by loving God, and loving people." - SARA GROVES
CreepingDeath
10-04-2005, 06:41 PM
So far:
Dream Theater- Octavarium
Opeth- Ghost Reveries
Nevermore- The Godless Endeaver
Nine Inch Nails- With Teeth
Franz Ferdinand- You Could Have It So Much Better
dissention
10-04-2005, 06:44 PM
Ok...what I like about them...
Sara Groves "Add To The Beauty" - (mind you it just came out as of today! lol). "Sara offers an insightful and accessible view into the complexities of Christianity being walked out in a fallen world." That quote from www.musichristian.com is perhaps the best way I know how to describe Sara and her songwriting, she is simply wonderful. Her newest album is no different, and it is IMHO her very best!
This is what Sara herself has to say about the new album...
"IN MY MIND THE NEW ALBUM IS ABOUT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, HOW IT REALLY DOES EXIST, AND IS AS REAL AS YOUR CAR OR YOUR KRISPY KREME DONUT, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR PROBLEMS. IF WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT, GOD HAS INVITED US TO LIVE in His kingdom in the midst of our regular existence. It is not a place of isolation and perfection, it is not far away where we cannot reach it. It happens at all the places where we intersect with each other. I hope the album is another reminder that the kingdom of God doesn't just come in the rally or worship event. It comes when I speak respectfully to my husband, and refrain from letting my anger spill over onto my kids, when I have an opportunity to gossip and refrain, when I open up my home, when I mess up royally, and have the stuff to go apologize, when I refuse to blame everyone else for my problems. These songs are about the beautiful character that grows out of seeing people through by loving God, and loving people." - SARA GROVES
Hmmmmm. I think I'll pass.
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 06:45 PM
Hmmmmm. I think I'll pass.
Somewhow I knew you'd say that... ;)
Richard B
10-04-2005, 06:47 PM
Moby - Hotel
Robert Plant and The Strange Sensation - Mighty Rearranger
DavidMn
10-04-2005, 06:48 PM
Moby - Hotel
Robert Plant and The Strange Sensation - Mighty Rearranger
Moby's the one the Eminem slammed in that one song right?
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 06:51 PM
Hmmmmm. I think I'll pass.
Ohhh now I'm just shocked! :p
You are, however missing out on some awesome music...Sara is great...she is one of the finest lyricists that I have ever had the joy of listening to.
And the best part is I get to see her Oct. 20 in concert and MEET HER! :]
Richard B
10-04-2005, 06:54 PM
Moby's the one the Eminem slammed in that one song right?
Not sure. Eminem is weak. Can't stand the fool.
Rickypt
10-04-2005, 07:01 PM
Josh Rouse--Nashville: More perfect pop music from this guy; this one a wonderful 70's Jackson Browne kind of sound.
Bright Eyes--I'm Awake, It's Morning: Not quite up to the hype --isn't possible-- but a great collection of songs. Plus Emmylou is on it.
Dolly Parton--Those Were The Days: It's not out until Oct. 11th and I haven't heard it yet, but I know it will be fantastic. I heard many of the songs in concert--Imagine, Me and Bobby McGee, Blowin' In The Wind, Crimson and Clover, Where Have All The Flowers Gone--and she nails all of them.
Moby's the one the Eminem slammed in that one song right?
Moby is one of many whom Eminem has mocked, indeed.
Josh Rouse--Nashville: More perfect pop music from this guy; this one a wonderful 70's Jackson Browne kind of sound.
I really enjoyed 1972, I may have to look into Nashville...
Rickypt
10-04-2005, 07:31 PM
I really enjoyed 1972, I may have to look into Nashville...
Well, nothing will ever come close to 1972, but Nashville's definitely worth checking out.
Ohhh now I'm just shocked! :p
You are, however missing out on some awesome music...Sara is great...she is one of the finest lyricists that I have ever had the joy of listening to.
I can't say anything about Ms. Groves, because I've never listened to her, but what confuses me about popular "Christian music" in general is the fact that it feels the need to label itself as Christian. It's the only "genre" of music I can think of that delineates itself not by anything musical but by the subject matter of the lyrics. It seems very limiting and tends to lead to a lot of really obvious sentiment (both lyrically and musically) that almost feels like pandering to a certain built-in audience. There are certainly plenty of artists out there in all genres of music (especially country, but also in rap/hip-hop and R&B, as well as some rock/pop) who are Christian, or religious in some other way, and who find a way to express that religiosity in some of their music while still writing and singing about any of a hundred other aspects of life in the rest of their music. (Kanye West and particularly Sufjan Stevens are two examples just from my 2005 list.) It seems like the possibility of that sort of breadth is almost necessary for any kind of artistic growth, and it makes me wonder if most "Christian" artists have anything else at all to say? Then again, maybe most of the people who produce and/or listen to Chrstian music feel that God is or should be explicitly involved in every aspect of life. But still, it seems like a rather needlessly limited template.
Moony
10-04-2005, 07:47 PM
I can't say anything about Ms. Groves, because I've never listened to her, but what confuses me about popular "Christian music" in general is the fact that it feels the need to label itself as Christian. It's the only "genre" of music I can think of that delineates itself not by anything musical but by the subject matter of the lyrics. It seems very limiting and tends to lead to a lot of really obvious sentiment (both lyrically and musically) that almost feels like pandering to a certain built-in audience. There are certainly plenty of artists out there in all genres of music (especially country, but also in rap/hip-hop and R&B, as well as some rock/pop) who are Christian, or religious in some other way, and who find a way to express that religiosity in some of their music while still writing and singing about any of a hundred other aspects of life in the rest of their music. (Kanye West and particularly Sufjan Stevens are two examples just from my 2005 list.) It seems like the possibility of that sort of breadth is almost necessary for any kind of artistic growth, and it makes me wonder if most "Christian" artists have anything else at all to say? Then again, maybe most of the people who produce and/or listen to Chrstian music feel that God is or should be explicitly involved in every aspect of life. But still, it seems like a rather needlessly limited template.
Well said. I think "Christian" music is ridiculous.
wondergirl9847
10-04-2005, 07:51 PM
One of my fave bands is MxPx and they are labeled as punk, but they have Christian overtones to their music. Check 'em out if ya like great punk music. I'm not a huge fan of some Christian artists because they bore me or they all sound similar. I was never a Point of Grace fan and I don't listen to Christian music radio these days. I do love the old school artists though, such as Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Jars of Clay and Newsboys.
I didn't buy many CDs in 2005. I think I got Duran Duran's Astronaut and an old Keith Urban CD from 1991 this year, but that was it. I bought some music in iTunes recently like a few songs from Gwen Stefani's solo album and some jazz songs.
Oh!! Tan-Hauser Gate...that's the best album of 2005, if ya ask me. ;)
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 07:56 PM
I can't say anything about Ms. Groves, because I've never listened to her, but what confuses me about popular "Christian music" in general is the fact that it feels the need to label itself as Christian. It's the only "genre" of music I can think of that delineates itself not by anything musical but by the subject matter of the lyrics. It seems very limiting and tends to lead to a lot of really obvious sentiment (both lyrically and musically) that almost feels like pandering to a certain built-in audience. There are certainly plenty of artists out there in all genres of music (especially country, but also in rap/hip-hop and R&B, as well as some rock/pop) who are Christian, or religious in some other way, and who find a way to express that religiosity in some of their music while still writing and singing about any of a hundred other aspects of life in the rest of their music. (Kanye West and particularly Sufjan Stevens are two examples just from my 2005 list.) It seems like the possibility of that sort of breadth is almost necessary for any kind of artistic growth, and it makes me wonder if most "Christian" artists have anything else at all to say? Then again, maybe most of the people who produce and/or listen to Chrstian music feel that God is or should be explicitly involved in every aspect of life. But still, it seems like a rather needlessly limited template.
I understand exactly what you are talking about, and something I used to wonder about myself! However there IS a difference between Contemporary Christian and Praise and Worship. Most people who don't listen to any Christian music often think of Praise and Worship when they think of Christian music...but this is not ALL of what Christian music is! For example, Sara Groves, doesn't write every song about praising God, but life in general...love, heartbreak, loneliness, heck even materialism...just like most pop artist. The difference is that she comes at it from the standpoint of a Christian, and looks at all the subject matters through the eyes of her faith. If she weren't a Christian artist though, I could see her being a HUGE success mainstream wise...she just has IT! So I do see what you are talking about…
SteveMacD
10-04-2005, 07:57 PM
I can't say anything about Ms. Groves, because I've never listened to her, but what confuses me about popular "Christian music" in general is the fact that it feels the need to label itself as Christian. It's the only "genre" of music I can think of that delineates itself not by anything musical but by the subject matter of the lyrics. It seems very limiting and tends to lead to a lot of really obvious sentiment (both lyrically and musically) that almost feels like pandering to a certain built-in audience. There are certainly plenty of artists out there in all genres of music (especially country, but also in rap/hip-hop and R&B, as well as some rock/pop) who are Christian, or religious in some other way, and who find a way to express that religiosity in some of their music while still writing and singing about any of a hundred other aspects of life in the rest of their music. (Kanye West and particularly Sufjan Stevens are two examples just from my 2005 list.) It seems like the possibility of that sort of breadth is almost necessary for any kind of artistic growth, and it makes me wonder if most "Christian" artists have anything else at all to say? Then again, maybe most of the people who produce and/or listen to Chrstian music feel that God is or should be explicitly involved in every aspect of life. But still, it seems like a rather needlessly limited template.
I think you hit it on the head when you said "pandering." That's all it is. They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry (whatever that may be), otherwise it's nothing more than a sick use of people's faith to make a bunch of money (see also: Jim Baker).
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 07:58 PM
Well said. I think "Christian" music is ridiculous.
And you know this by being an avid fan...?
How can you say something is ridiculous, when the singers and songwriters are doing what they feel they are compelled to do...no different than other secular artist out there. You write about things that you believe in and what motivates you in life, etc...
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 08:01 PM
I think you hit it on the head when you said "pandering." That's all it is. They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry (whatever that may be), otherwise it's nothing more than a sick use of people's faith to make a bunch of money (see also: Jim Baker).
So I (as a singer and songwriter...which I am) am not coming from a completely honest place when I write songs about how God has shown his mercy in my life? If I were to get a record deal and record my music professionally, would I be selling out?
right now is my favorite. It's called 80 for his 80th birthday that he just celebrated Sept. 16th, so it just came out. Every song on it is with a different artist like Sheryl Crow, Elton John, Daryl Hall, Gloria Estefan, Eric Clapton, to name a few. It is great. I'd highly recommend it. :thumbsup:
Lee :)
right now is my favorite. It's called 80 for his 80th birthday that he just celebrated Sept. 16th, so it just came out. Every song on it is with a different artist like Sheryl Crow, Elton John, Daryl Hall, Gloria Estefan, Eric Clapton, to name a few. It is great. I'd highly recommend it. :thumbsup:
Lee :)
I haven't heard this album, so I don't know if it's good or... well, less good (I don't know that BB King can produce much that's actually bad), but let me go on record as saying that part of me deeply despises Frank Sinatra for introducing this concept into modern music.
I understand exactly what you are talking about, and something I used to wonder about myself! However there IS a difference between Contemporary Christian and Praise and Worship. Most people who don't listen to any Christian music often think of Praise and Worship when they think of Christian music...but this is not ALL of what Christian music is! For example, Sara Groves, doesn't write every song about praising God, but life in general...love, heartbreak, loneliness, heck even materialism...just like most pop artist. The difference is that she comes at it from the standpoint of a Christian, and looks at all the subject matters through the eyes of her faith. If she weren't a Christian artist though, I could see her being a HUGE success mainstream wise...she just has IT! So I do see what you are talking about…
But God and Christianity are major explicit presences in all of her songs, yes? Even if the gist of the song isn't simply "Ain't God grand"? And she still labels herself as a "Christian" artist? This still seems like an unnecessarily narrow template from which to write and perform. If she "looks at all the subject matter through the eyes of her faith," it seems like that could get a bit boring and repetitive after a while, especially when it's not just one artist but an entire "genre" of music built around this sort of thing. Certainly every artist has values and experiences which inform all of their work, but the point of art is to always be seeking out new things to say and new ways of looking at and thinking about the world. The idea of being a "Christian" musician seems to preclude that in a lot of ways.
SteveMacD
10-04-2005, 08:49 PM
So I (as a singer and songwriter...which I am) am not coming from a completely honest place when I write songs about how God has shown his mercy in my life?
That's not at all what I said. There are PLENTY of other things to sing about, in addition to that. And, there's a way to do it without having to pigeonhole oneself as a "Christian" artist. Lots of very successful and respected artists have been able to infuse religious themes into more secular music: Eric Clapton, Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, U2, Elvis, Loretta Lynn, Aretha Franklin, and the Staples Singers, to name but a very few. These artists are respected for their talents as all around singers/songwriters/musicians. Their religiosity was very present in their music, but it certainly didn't define their music. THAT'S the difference. The "Christian" performers are virtually unknown outside of the (Evangelical) Christian community, because there's really nothing interesting about these artists. They have absolutely nothing else to offer listeners. Furthermore, the way most execute their performances is bland at best and horrifically embarrassing at worst.
If I were to get a record deal and record my music professionally, would I be selling out?
Hell, you don't have to be a Christian to ask that question. That's the question that has dogged MANY artists, regardless of religion over the years.
macfanken
10-04-2005, 09:00 PM
...ummm... fav albums of 2005...
Death Cab For Cutie - Plans
Arcade Fire - Funeral
Fischerspooner - Odyssey
Coldyplay - X & Y
estranged4life
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
"W.A.R.P.E.D." Chris Caffery
"Octavarium" Dream Theater
"Real Illusions: Reflections" Steve Vai
"Elements of Persuasion" James Labrie
Upcoming releases that may be great:
"All the Way to the Sun" TNT
"Keeper of the Seven Keys-The Legacy" Helloween
NaiveMelody23
10-04-2005, 09:35 PM
Well, let's see
1. Extrodinary Machine- Fiona Apple
2. Late Registration- Kanye West
3. Arular- MIA
4. Venus Loves Mars- The Brunettes
5. Illinoise- Sufjan Stevens
6. The Beekeeper- Tori Amos
7. Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV- Coheed and Cambria(Dont care what you say it is great)
Cannot think of any other that are sticking out at the moment
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 09:40 PM
But God and Christianity are major explicit presences in all of her songs, yes? Even if the gist of the song isn't simply "Ain't God grand"? And she still labels herself as a "Christian" artist? This still seems like an unnecessarily narrow template from which to write and perform. If she "looks at all the subject matter through the eyes of her faith," it seems like that could get a bit boring and repetitive after a while, especially when it's not just one artist but an entire "genre" of music built around this sort of thing. Certainly every artist has values and experiences which inform all of their work, but the point of art is to always be seeking out new things to say and new ways of looking at and thinking about the world. The idea of being a "Christian" musician seems to preclude that in a lot of ways.
I think you are missing the point here. Christianity is not something you "brush" aside just for the sake of making it "big". As a songwriter, who happens to be Christian (or should I say a Christian who happens to be a songwriter) myself I can speak about this through some knowledge. Once you give yourself over to being honest anything you say that is not honest you are like "who am I kidding, why even say it, why waste the oxygen?" To plumb the depths of your feelings, in light of the love of God is an amazing thing. It's like saying "God, you're ahead of me you are behind me...you know it all, all of the junk that I’m trying to get to the bottom of before I even say it...you know it ALL!" But having that guarantee that, when I get to the end of this process I know there is ONE who will stand beside me. If you don't believe there is a God, then why dig in?
I don't see it as being boring at all? How could the songwriting process be boring when you are completely giving yourself over to being honest about yourself? You can't change the way you see life, whether it's through your faith or not. For example...tell me what is wrong with this song written by Sara Groves? How would it be any different if say it were recorded by Sheryl Crow?
ROLL TO THE MIDDLE
Sara Groves
We just had a World War III here in our kitchen
We both thought the meanest things
And then we both said them
We shot at each other till we lost amunition
This is how I know our love
This is when I feel it’s power
Here in the absence of it
This is my darkest hour
When both of us are hunkered down
And waiting for the truce
All the complicated wars
They end pretty simple
Here when the lights go down
We roll to the middle
No matter how my pride resists
No matter how this wall feels true
No matter how I can’t be sure
That you’re gonna roll in too
No matter what, no matter what
I’m going to reach for you
Brwn_eyes0511
10-04-2005, 09:43 PM
That's not at all what I said. There are PLENTY of other things to sing about, in addition to that. And, there's a way to do it without having to pigeonhole oneself as a "Christian" artist. Lots of very successful and respected artists have been able to infuse religious themes into more secular music: Eric Clapton, Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, U2, Elvis, Loretta Lynn, Aretha Franklin, and the Staples Singers, to name but a very few. These artists are respected for their talents as all around singers/songwriters/musicians. Their religiosity was very present in their music, but it certainly didn't define their music. THAT'S the difference. The "Christian" performers are virtually unknown outside of the (Evangelical) Christian community, because there's really nothing interesting about these artists. They have absolutely nothing else to offer listeners. Furthermore, the way most execute their performances is bland at best and horrifically embarrassing at worst.
This just goes to show your utter lack of knowledge when it comes to Christian music. Take time to listen to a Sara Groves CD, and tell me it is "horrific" or "embarrassing". True there IS bad Contemporary Christian music, and sadly it sometimes gets more recognition than the better stuff.
wondergirl9847
10-04-2005, 10:07 PM
LMAO at your Chappelle's Show sig pic! I just watched that ep the other night and died laughing....all over again.
dissention
10-04-2005, 10:11 PM
Aimee Mann, 'The Forgotten Arm'
I cannot believe I forgot that.
Juliette & the Licks, 'You're Speaking My Language' (I'm bummed that I can't go to their show here next month. Stupid 21+ clubs.)
You poor thing. They put on one f*cking kick ass show. I can't wait for them to cut another album.
Wild_Heart03
10-05-2005, 02:08 AM
Wreck Of The Day - Anna Nalick (this one I've been the most obsessed over, her voice is so pure and gorgeous. Absolutely fantastic.)
Waiting For The Sirens' Call - New Order
You Could Have It So Much Better -Franz Ferdinand
Playing The Angel - Depeche Mode (if their first single "Precious" is any reflection on the album, then I know I'll love it to death.)
eclipse
10-05-2005, 03:29 AM
This just goes to show your utter lack of knowledge when it comes to Christian music. Take time to listen to a Sara Groves CD, and tell me it is "horrific" or "embarrassing". True there IS bad Contemporary Christian music, and sadly it sometimes gets more recognition than the better stuff.
Remember the golden rule?
Can't discuss
sex-politics or religion without someone being either
offended, suspended or up-ended...remember...everyone has an opinion and it may not be yours :xoxo:
PLus, We like talking about the SOB club and Stevie's hair :] :] :]
We are talking deep intense issues here ;)
eclipse
10-05-2005, 03:38 AM
I am ashamed to say I have only purchased a few cd's this year-
and although I like some songs on some cd's . I haven't found one CD thast I like all the songs? Maybe it's just me...I have read others choices and I have some of those CD's and I loke some songs, i.e.
Tori Amos- Bee Keeper- I like Sleeps with Butterflies
Anna Nalick-Wreck of the Day- I like 2:00am Breathe
Madeline Peyroux-You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go
and Coldplay...Chris Martin's voice is WAY toooo high for me, he makes Sting sound like a baritone! Don't know, I just can't get into that band...
So, :shrug:
I really can't express that one particular CD is great! I'll keep checking your suggestions though, everybody...
eclipse
10-05-2005, 05:51 AM
Tracka...
You like Ray LaMontangue- Trouble is the song I'm thinking of...
and you are in London??
I didn't know that he was that well known...:confused: :confused: f
rom what I understand he is from a small town here in New Hampshire-USA, and is just starting to br heard in ,like, Boston...
(but hey- I could be wrong!)
I think you are missing the point here. Christianity is not something you "brush" aside just for the sake of making it "big".
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything I said. I don't think I meantioned anything about "making it big," or about "brushing aside" one's Christianity. As I noted elsewhere, there are a number of musicians I adore who are Christian who have written or recorded songs reflecting their religious beliefs.
As a songwriter, who happens to be Christian (or should I say a Christian who happens to be a songwriter) myself I can speak about this through some knowledge. Once you give yourself over to being honest anything you say that is not honest you are like "who am I kidding, why even say it, why waste the oxygen?" To plumb the depths of your feelings, in light of the love of God is an amazing thing. It's like saying "God, you're ahead of me you are behind me...you know it all, all of the junk that I’m trying to get to the bottom of before I even say it...you know it ALL!" But having that guarantee that, when I get to the end of this process I know there is ONE who will stand beside me. If you don't believe there is a God, then why dig in?
Well, putting aside that last question, because I really doubt any of us wants to take this thread there, this still doesn't seem to have much to do with what I was talking about. Again, I certainly don't have anything against songs written from an overtly Christian perspective. It's the idea of a "genre" of "Christian" music that I find to be severely limiting.
For example...tell me what is wrong with this song written by Sara Groves? How would it be any different if say it were recorded by Sheryl Crow?
Well, the lyrics aren't doing a whole lot for me, but written lyrics often don't. And a Sheryl Crow comparison isn't going to earn Ms. Groves any points with me, but as long as we're going to make this woman an example...
This doesn't look like a bad song, at least on paper. It also doesn't appear to be a religious song, at least any remotely overt way. So the question I find myself asking at this point is, if she writes "secular" songs like this, if she chooses to write about issues other than overt declarations of or meditations on her faith, then why does she label herself as a "Christian" artist? It's the existence of this "genre" that troubles me, and actually, I'm going to stop calling it a genre, because it's not one, it's a market. So why does she choose to restrict herself to this specific market? Why not attempt to expose other people outside the relatively small Christian culture that listens to "Christian" music to her art? Why do musicians like this find themselves to be so self-consciously Christian that they choose to label and pigeonhole themselves this way?
Again, there are simply dozens upon dozens of artists out there, and I think of more every minute, who are Christian and who write and/or perform religious songs, as well as writing and perofmring songs on other topics (as Ms. Groves seems to be doing here), but they don't label themselves as "Christian" and pigeonhole themselves into this very limiting, often bland and trite "genre"/market that separates itself almost entirely from the rest of the music industry and from most music fans. So why do other artists do this? What's the point?
Remember the golden rule?
Can't discuss
sex-politics or religion without someone being either
offended, suspended or up-ended...remember...everyone has an opinion and it may not be yours :xoxo:
That's the problem of the people discussing the issues, not the issues themselves. Personally, I'm enjoying the discussion and am not at all offended or up-ended, and I hope Brwneyes feels the same.
I'm also fairly certain that anyone who posts here realizes that other people who post here have different opinions, whether it's about religious music or about Stevie's Today Show outfit.
Madeline Peyroux-You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go
I've never heard of this artist, but what is her take on this song? How does she do it?
What the hell, here goes. No need for explanation, I just like 'em.[QUOTE]
Boring!
[QUOTE]Arcade Fire - Funeral
Came out in September 2004, but I'm sure they appreciate being at the top of many people's lists this year as well! Now, when are they finally holing themselves up to record the next one so they release and then tour Europe...
Actually I think you'll find it came out in February 2005 in the UK.
Did it! Pity for you kids then, having to go so long without it! You'd think with your Canada connections, you'd have picked up on it sooner... What took you guys so long?
golddustwoman77
10-05-2005, 07:33 AM
John Prine's Fair and Square It is just awesome. Well, he is just awesome! I saw him last weekend at the Ryman in Nashville. It kicked @ss! :thumbsup:
Neil Young's Prairie Wind It is very powerful. I especially love "When God Made Me." I loved how perfect that was for the Katrina Victims Benefit. I hope that it made a lot of people think.
Joan Baez's Bowery Songs I love her version of "Christmas in Washington."
I guess they didn't have a distribution deal here.
Rough Trade picked them up and released both Funeral and their EP this year, in advance of their UK tour.
I have no idea when the EP originally came out, but it's new to us Brits too.
So I'm keeping Funeral in my 2005 list.
The EP originally came out in 2003 on a small independent Candian label, I believe, but it was rereleased just this summer. So it's "new"-ish to most everyone!
SteveMacD
10-05-2005, 10:25 AM
This just goes to show your utter lack of knowledge when it comes to Christian music. Take time to listen to a Sara Groves CD, and tell me it is "horrific" or "embarrassing". True there IS bad Contemporary Christian music, and sadly it sometimes gets more recognition than the better stuff.
Hey, if you like her, that's wonderful. I can say with almost 100% certainty that I won't enjoy it for a second. As I've said, it's not that I have an issue with religious music, I have an issue with performers who intentionally pigeonhole themselves as "Christian" artists and do religious music to the exclusion of everything else. To me, those performers just come off as fake. They appear to be pandering to people's faith.
As for the Sheryl Crow comparison, honestly, I was 50/50 on her until she did the Gram Parsons tribute album. That’s when I knew she was the real deal, and not somebody who just had pretty good music and famous friends. I doubt I’ll ever get to that point with this Sara Groves.
SteveMacD
10-05-2005, 10:50 AM
LMAO at your Chappelle's Show sig pic! I just watched that ep the other night and died laughing....all over again.
Yeah, that's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. When I saw the pic on-line, I knew I had to use it.
wondergirl9847
10-05-2005, 11:25 AM
"Run, ho, run! Save yourself!"
:lol:
skcin
10-05-2005, 12:22 PM
I hardly ever buy CDs anymore, to be honest. I don't have tons of extra cash around to do so, and unless I've heard a few tunes off the album that I like, I usually don't take chances that I'll hate it. :shrug:
The one CD that I really loved this year is Foo Fighters "In Your Honor." I love that it's 2 CDs, one is hard rock & the other really mellow & relaxing. I like pretty much every tune on it. :nod:
The one CD that I really loved this year is Foo Fighters "In Your Honor." I love that it's 2 CDs, one is hard rock & the other really mellow & relaxing. I like pretty much every tune on it. :nod:
I haven't heard this album, but I've always kind of wished Lindsey would do a double album sort of like this...
DavidMn
10-05-2005, 12:43 PM
With regards to my earlier post on the Stereophonics: www.Stereophonics.com go check it out. You will discvoer how wonderful this band truly is. The video for Dakota is woth it alone. :thumbsup:
chiliD
10-05-2005, 12:52 PM
1) Eric Clapton - Back Home
2) BB King - 80
3) Big & Rich - Horse Of A Different Color
DavidMn
10-05-2005, 12:55 PM
1) Eric Clapton - Back Home
2) BB King - 80
3) Big & Rich - Horse Of A Different Color
BTW you wouldnt believe how big that big and rich song Ride a cowboy or whatever it's called is at the gay bars right now. I wonder if they intended that? :laugh:
Bryan
10-05-2005, 02:09 PM
1.Tori Amos 'The Beekeeper'
2.Ricky Ross 'Pale Rider'
3.Aimee Mann 'The Forgotten Arm'
4.Magne F 'Past Perfect Future Tense'
5.Natalie Imbruglia 'Counting Down The Days'
6.t.A.T.u. 'Dangerous And Moving'
7.The Corrs 'Home'
8.The Futureheads 'The Futureheads'
9.Rufus Wainwright 'Want Two'
10.Cyndi Lauper 'The Body Acoustic' (well it's not out yet but of course i'll love it :D )
-Bryan
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 02:24 PM
Well, putting aside that last question, because I really doubt any of us wants to take this thread there, this still doesn't seem to have much to do with what I was talking about. Again, I certainly don't have anything against songs written from an overtly Christian perspective. It's the idea of a "genre" of "Christian" music that I find to be severely limiting.
I still don't understand how it is limiting to have a ministry of music? Most Christian artist feel like they have been called to a ministry of music. And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...it is by no means "limiting" if more keep gaining interest.
Well, the lyrics aren't doing a whole lot for me, but written lyrics often don't. And a Sheryl Crow comparison isn't going to earn Ms. Groves any points with me, but as long as we're going to make this woman an example...
This doesn't look like a bad song, at least on paper. It also doesn't appear to be a religious song, at least any remotely overt way. So the question I find myself asking at this point is, if she writes "secular" songs like this, if she chooses to write about issues other than overt declarations of or meditations on her faith, then why does she label herself as a "Christian" artist? It's the existence of this "genre" that troubles me, and actually, I'm going to stop calling it a genre, because it's not one, it's a market. So why does she choose to restrict herself to this specific market? Why not attempt to expose other people outside the relatively small Christian culture that listens to "Christian" music to her art? Why do musicians like this find themselves to be so self-consciously Christian that they choose to label and pigeonhole themselves this way?
Again, there are simply dozens upon dozens of artists out there, and I think of more every minute, who are Christian and who write and/or perform religious songs, as well as writing and perofmring songs on other topics (as Ms. Groves seems to be doing here), but they don't label themselves as "Christian" and pigeonhole themselves into this very limiting, often bland and trite "genre"/market that separates itself almost entirely from the rest of the music industry and from most music fans. So why do other artists do this? What's the point?
Sara wrote that song after having a really big fight with her husband. She went into her room, sat at the piano, and just wrote! My point is that not all Christian artists’ songs mention the word God in them. It doesn't make them any less Christian. The reason they label themselves Christian artist is because THEY ARE CHRISTIAN and the majority of the music they write is about God's active role in their life, and also because of the record company they are with. For instance Sara is with Sponge Records which is a Christian label but she gets marketing support from Sony/Epic (so obviously Christian music is growing).
About the song and Sheryl Crow. Ok now let's turn the tables around...let’s say Sheryl Crow (or any other secular pop artist) recorded THIS song by Sara...tell me that their fans would turn on them saying they have gone "Christian"!!!
Compelled
Sara Groves
What a relief it is to know
I’m a slave to Christ
Of all the masters I have known
I’m compelled to live this life
Free for you
I’m on the other side of something
I’m on the other side of something
I have a new hope that blows away
The small hopes I knew before
And at the end of the day I am yours
And I am compelled
You’ve written on my very heart
Where no man can legislate
The law of your love has taken hold
With your holiness and grace
There’s no mistake
I’m on the other side of something
I’m coming out the other side, the other side
I have a new hope that blows away
The small hopes I knew before
And at the end of the day I am yours
And I am compelled
I am drawn and driven, I am compelled
You have written it, I am compelled
You live in me
And I can’t help myself
I still don't understand how it is limiting to have a ministry of music? Most Christian artist feel like they have been called to a ministry of music. And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...it is by no means "limiting" if more keep gaining interest.
I'm not sure if you're purposely miscomprehending what I'm writing or not, but this point isn't really a major issue.
Sara wrote that song after having a really big fight with her husband. She went into her room, sat at the piano, and just wrote! My point is that not all Christian artists’ songs mention the word God in them. It doesn't make them any less Christian.
I don't think anybody claimed that writing non-God praisin' songs makes a Christian artists less Christian.
The reason they label themselves Christian artist is because THEY ARE CHRISTIAN and the majority of the music they write is about God's active role in their life,
Once again, Steve and I and others have mentioned that there are dozens upon dozens of musicians out there who are Christian and who write music with religious themes, yet they don't pigeonhole themselves into the market of "Christian" music. The question I asked is why an artist would choose to do this.
About the song and Sheryl Crow. Ok now let's turn the tables around...let’s say Sheryl Crow (or any other secular pop artist) recorded THIS song by Sara...tell me that their fans would turn on them saying they have gone "Christian"!!!
Why do you keep bringing up Sheryl Crow? I have to say, I don't own any of her albums, and I'm not intimately familiar with her fan base or how they might react if she wrote and released a religious song. Anyway, are you implying that most fans of "secular" music would refuse to listen to a song by their favorite "secular" artist if it had religious themes? I don't think that's remotely true. If that's what you're saying, what is it that makes you think that?
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 02:44 PM
[quote]Once again, Steve and I and others have mentioned that there are dozens upon dozens of musicians out there who are Christian and who write music with religious themes, yet they don't pigeonhole themselves into the market of "Christian" music. The question I asked is why an artist would choose to do this.
You obviously weren't reading what I wrote. They label themselves Christian artist because of...
1. THEY ARE
2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music
3. It depends on what label you are with.
And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...
Why do you keep bringing up Sheryl Crow? I have to say, I don't own any of her albums, and I'm not intimately familiar with her fan base or how they might react if she wrote and released a religious song. Anyway, are you implying that most fans of "secular" music would refuse to listen to a song by their favorite "secular" artist if it had religious themes? I don't think that's remotely true. If that's what you're saying, what is it that makes you think that?
Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?
estranged4life
10-05-2005, 02:54 PM
to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.
DavidMn
10-05-2005, 02:56 PM
to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.
Micheal W Smith absolutely makes me YAWN :nod:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 02:56 PM
to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and sonme of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.
I know what you mean. That is a big problem I have with most Christian "Rock" groups...there music is a little "lame"...however I am a songwriter before I am a musician, so I always hear the words in a song first before I pay attention to the music. I do like some of the more rock/pop groups in Christian music like Switchfoot...
I usually care more for the more independent Christian artists...like Ms. Groves.
CreepingDeath
10-05-2005, 02:57 PM
to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.
Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Micheal W Smith absolutely makes me YAWN :nod:
I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha. :laugh: :p
JazmenFlowers
10-05-2005, 02:59 PM
I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha. :laugh: :p
I used to love Point of Grace and Lisa Bevill :lol:
DavidMn
10-05-2005, 03:00 PM
I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha. :laugh: :p
NO problem, To each their own. :thumbsup:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 03:01 PM
I used to love Point of Grace and Lisa Bevill :lol:
I have never heard of Lisa Bevill, but do enjoy some of Point of Grace's music...they aren't my favorite...but I do like them.
skcin
10-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.
:lol: I can hear Brian singing now...
"Free! Free to do what you want to! Choose your own destiny! Free to do what you waaaant to!"
Better than Honestly, anyway.
estranged4life
10-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.
only own one of the album's "Soldiers Under Command", Which is very heavy & melodic & well-produced...
Otherwise I find the rest of Stryper's catalog of songs to be somewhat boring musically & Michael Sweet's vocals are too cheesy after prolonged listens (His vocals are better on their newest release "Reborn", But the band sounds like they want to be the band Disturbed for this album...Big yawn!)
[QUOTE=Jyqm]You obviously weren't reading what I wrote. They label themselves Christian artist because of...
1. THEY ARE
2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music
3. It depends on what label you are with.
The label answer is getting a little closer that to what I'm asking about, but then the question becomes, why sign up with a "Christian" label? Why do these artists choose to restrict themselves to a "Christian" music audience (because, once you label yourself as a "Christian" musician, that's largely what you're doing) rather than just put their music out there for the whole of the population to discover?
And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...
I was saying that the idea of "Christian" music seems to be self-limiting in the range of ideas that can be written about;* I never said anything about popularity or record sales.
*And you countered by demonstrating that not all "Christian" artists write every song about Christianity. At which point the question turned to, why do they then label themselves as "Christian?"
Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?
No! Why on earth do you think this? Steve and I have both posted the names of a number of musicians who do not label themselves as "Christian artists" but who are Christian and have written and performed more than their share of music with religious themes with little to no backlash from anybody.
To cite the two examples I already mentioned:
1) Kanye West is one of the biggest "secular" music stars in the world right now, and he had a HUGE hit single last year with the song "Jesus Walks," the chorus of which is, "(Jesus Walk)/God show me the way 'cause the Devil's tryin' to break me down/(Jesus Walk with me)/The only thing that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now/(Jesus Walk)/And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs/(Jesus Walk)/I want to talk to God but I'm afraid 'cause we ain't spoke in so long." Incidentally, the song also grapples with this same idea of yours, that the music industry won't embrace a song about Jesus. But the song's massive success proves that idea dead wrong.
2) Sufjan Stevens is an artist who is very open about his Christianity, and a number of songs on his album Illinois are religious in nature. Critics have almost universally praised the album as one of the year's best, and it's become a commercial success by most independent music standards.
And those are just two examples from the present moment. Dig into the past a little, and you'll find dozens of "secular" artists in nearly every genre releasing widely-acclaimed and embraced religious music, from Willie Nelson's 1976 gospel album The Troublemaker to John Coltrane's 1964 masterpiece A Love Supreme.
You seem to have this dichotomous idea of the music world where there are self-labelled "Christian" artists who write songs about their religion, and then there are "secular" artists who write only about secular matters. But this simply isn't the case. There are many "secular" artists on "secular" labels who write music that deals with generally religious and/or specifically Christian themes and issues. And since this is the case, and everybody seems to be co-existing rather nicely, my question is why some artists feel the need to segregate themselves as "Christian" artists, shutting themselves off from the broader music industry.
skcin
10-05-2005, 03:25 PM
:lol:
Time to break out the Stryper picture again!
I think they achieved those hairstyles through the power of prayer myself.
http://www.sixsixfive.com/collection/stryper1.jpg
Sharon. I love you. :laugh:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 03:28 PM
The label answer is getting a little closer that to what I'm asking about, but then the question becomes, why sign up with a "Christian" label? Why do these artists choose to restrict themselves to a "Christian" music audience (because, once you label yourself as a "Christian" musician, that's largely what you're doing) rather than just put their music out there for the whole of the population to discover?
Like they are going to be that picky about who is signing them!!! Would you turn down any label deal? And also her label is promoted by Sony/Epic, which actually just started with her new record that came out Tuesday. So hopefully this means they are going to try and push her into the larger arena occupied by Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, MercyMe, Swithfoot...ect....
1) Kanye West is one of the biggest "secular" music stars in the world right now, and he had a HUGE hit single last year with the song "Jesus Walks," the chorus of which is, "(Jesus Walk)/God show me the way 'cause the Devil's tryin' to break me down/(Jesus Walk with me)/The only thing that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now/(Jesus Walk)/And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs/(Jesus Walk)/I want to talk to God but I'm afraid 'cause we ain't spoke in so long." Incidentally, the song also grapples with this same idea of yours, that the music industry won't embrace a song about Jesus. But the song's massive success proves that idea dead wrong.
A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"...:lol: Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.
2) Sufjan Stevens is an artist who is very open about his Christianity, and a number of songs on his album Illinois are religious in nature. Critics have almost universally praised the album as one of the year's best, and it's become a commercial success by most independent music standards.
A person I have never even heard of! Aren't they sort of in the "limited" boat as well...If you have never heard of Sara and I have never heard of this person. :shrug:
from Willie Nelson's 1976 gospel album The Troublemaker
Country artist....
to John Coltrane's 1964 masterpiece A Love Supreme.
the early 1960's....
You seem to have this dichotomous idea of the music world where there are self-labelled "Christian" artists who write songs about their religion, and then there are "secular" artists who write only about secular matters. But this simply isn't the case. There are many "secular" artists on "secular" labels who write music that deals with generally religious and/or specifically Christian themes and issues. And since this is the case, and everybody seems to be co-existing rather nicely, my question is why some artists feel the need to segregate themselves as "Christian" artists, shutting themselves off from the broader music industry.[/QUOTE]
Because it is a large conspiracy to make you all angry. :rolleyes: :lol:
And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...
And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.
A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"...:lol: Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.
What does that have to do with anything? The song is very explicitly about the artist's relationship with Jesus, and it was a huge commercial success. I offered it as an example when you claimed that "secular" artists would confront massive backlash if they released songs with Christian themes.
Are you just purposefully and blatantly ignoring the points I'm making? Because I'm trying to take you seriously and have an actual discussion with you.
A person I have never even heard of! Aren't they sort of in the "limited" boat as well...If you have never heard of Sara and I have never heard of this person. :shrug:
All right, fine, that's it. I give up on you. You're either a total idiot who can't read, or you're willfully misreading everything that I post. I'm not sure which is worse. But I'll repeat one more time that I said that "Christian" musicians seem to be limiting themselves in the range of topics they write about; it had absolutely nothing to do with popularity. If you've never heard of Sufjan Stevens, that's your problem, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. He's a devoted Christian who makes wonderful music, at any rate.
Country artist....
Your point being?
the early 1960's....
Your point being?
You seem to have this dichotomous idea of the music world where there are self-labelled "Christian" artists who write songs about their religion, and then there are "secular" artists who write only about secular matters. But this simply isn't the case. There are many "secular" artists on "secular" labels who write music that deals with generally religious and/or specifically Christian themes and issues. And since this is the case, and everybody seems to be co-existing rather nicely, my question is why some artists feel the need to segregate themselves as "Christian" artists, shutting themselves off from the broader music industry.
Because it is a large conspiracy to make you all angry. :rolleyes: :lol:
And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...
And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.
What on earth are you talking about! What you posted there has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I posted!
And once again: Where are you getting this idea that it is somehow "unacceptable" to sing about Jesus in the so-called "secular" music industry?
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 04:41 PM
What does that have to do with anything? The song is very explicitly about the artist's relationship with Jesus, and it was a huge commercial success. I offered it as an example when you claimed that "secular" artists would confront massive backlash if they released songs with Christian themes.
Are you just purposefully and blatantly ignoring the points I'm making? Because I'm trying to take you seriously and have an actual discussion with you.
No, I thought I was addressing them?!? I guess I have no idea where you are going with this then.
All right, fine, that's it. I give up on you. You're either a total idiot who can't read, or you're willfully misreading everything that I post. I'm not sure which is worse. But I'll repeat one more time that I said that "Christian" musicians seem to be limiting themselves in the range of topics they write about; it had absolutely nothing to do with popularity. If you've never heard of Sufjan Stevens, that's your problem, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. He's a devoted Christian who makes wonderful music, at any rate.
I thought I had already addressed to you why they label themselves as Christian artist. It is there choice and how they chose to define themselves. I too wish sometimes that they could expand their audience even more, especially someone who has so much to say like Sara Groves.
What on earth are you talking about! What you posted there has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I posted!
And once again: Where are you getting this idea that it is somehow "unacceptable" to sing about Jesus in the so-called "secular" music industry?
What on earth are you talking about? I thought what I posted did have to do with what you were talking about. You are asking why the label themselves as Christian artist and I thought I had answered that already more than once.:shrug:
chiliD
10-05-2005, 04:53 PM
And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...
Yep, just burnin' up the charts in Baghdad. :lol:
xdreamsunwindx
10-05-2005, 05:18 PM
Oh, hell. I don't think I bought many albums *from* 2005. And I'm not explaining. If you have a problem with this, then it sucks to be you.
Garbage - Bleed Like Me
Aimee Mann - The Forgotten Arm
The White Stripes - Get Behind Me Satan
Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth
The Mainliners - Bring On the Sweetlife (not that anyone has heard it, but I might add that it's best listened to live in a smokey dive bar)
Yeah. I've been too into my Velvet Underground albums to listen to anything new. Though, I love me some Rilo Kiley and The Shins. I also bought the Anna Nalick album which was decent for about 10 minutes. Now it just sucks.
PS: Amy Grant was performing at some mall over here a few weeks ago. I wanted to go. So I could point and laugh. Etc.
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 06:25 PM
Yep, just burnin' up the charts in Baghdad. :lol:
Ohhh that would be nice. You know how we have to convert them to Christianity and all... :lol:
Richard B
10-05-2005, 06:28 PM
I should add that I love the new Rolling Stones album 'A Bigger Bang.' I was hooked the first listen.
chiliD
10-05-2005, 06:29 PM
Ohhh that would be nice. You know how we have to convert them to Christianity and all... :lol:
Not until we get their oil, though. :laugh:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 06:46 PM
Not until we get their oil, though. :laugh:
Well, duh! :laugh: :thumbsup:
I should add that I love the new Rolling Stones album 'A Bigger Bang.' I was hooked the first listen.
Richard, I always misread your signature the first time I look your posts, and I think to myself, "What an odd way to restrict oneself. I wonder, are metaphors off-limits, too?"
Richard B
10-05-2005, 07:38 PM
Richard, I always misread your signature the first time I look your posts, and I think to myself, "What an odd way to restrict oneself. I wonder, are metaphors off-limits, too?"
Metaphors are wonderous things.
Sorry, I really hate smilies. I think they are silly. I think the beautiful English language, when used correctly, makes a point all on its own.
SteveMacD
10-05-2005, 08:35 PM
1. THEY ARE
So were a ton of other mainstream artists, a point which you seem unable to address. Look at Johnny Cash's last big hit, 2003's "Hurt." Since it was originally a Nine Inch Nails song, I have a really hard time calling this country, but Mr. Cash was the type of guy who could cross all kind of musical boundaries. The song itself wasn't necessarily religious (originally, it was about the angst of wanting to beat heroin), but the video featured lots of footage of a movie about the life of Jesus that Mr. Cash produced himself. The result was a visual that suggested a man who was close to death calling out for Jesus. How Christian is that? That's the type of thing that is religious, crosses all kinds of musical genres, and was able to earn the respect of critics, consumers, and musicians. If anything, this one song probably earned him MORE fans. It was art at its purist, and deeply honest. There was no backlash.
2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music
Which is a point I made when I said: "They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry..."
3. It depends on what label you are with.
Labels are about making money. The only reason there might be a "Christian" label is because they are able to focus their marketing on a certain segment of society. Even the prized "indy" label is out to turn a profit. So, this point hold absolutely no weight as far as I'm concerned.
And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...
I don't think he was referring to sales potential. He was referring to creative potential. Look at Amy Grant. She was a superstar on the Christian music scene, but had to leave it once it started limiting her.
Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?
The aforementioned video to "Hurt" was, I believe, the video of the year in 2003. Lots of Jesus in that video.
Eric Clapton's Blind Faith classic "Presence Of The Lord" is still deemed one of his better tunes. Clapton also had a hit with "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot."
U2 has always had a Christian element to their music. In fact, a few years back, a company was selling the books of the Bible individually, with a preface by a philosopher/personality/theologian. Bono did the liner notes for the Book of Psalms. I don't see there being any backlash against U2, considering they've had one of the top tours of 2005.
Al Green still packs in the crowds, and he's an ordained minister. He's recorded relgious and secular music, and has said that both are needed.
Aretha Franklin is the daughter of Reverend C.L. Franklin, who was one of the most influential ministers in Detroit in the 1950s. As such, her career has been extremely laced with Christian songs. Even today, she tops the list of popular female artists.
Dolly Parton is still one of the most popular female singers, and she did an album in 2003 called "For God & Country" that had several Christian songs (the first track being "The Lord Is My Shepherd").
Look at the critical success artists like Gillian Welch and Alison Krauss have earned with their gospel contributions to the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" soundtrack that cut across musical lines.
People aren't opposed to having religion, or more specifically Christianity, in their music. They just don't want it to be the only thing interesting about an artist. The above artists that I mentioned are but a small number (the first that came to my mind) of artists who have been able to express their religion in their music, but still were able to keep the respect and attention of the masses.
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 08:47 PM
So were a ton of other mainstream artists, a point which you seem unable to address. Look at Johnny Cash's last big hit, 2003's "Hurt." Since it was originally a Nine Inch Nails song, I have a really hard time calling this country, but Mr. Cash was the type of guy who could cross all kind of musical boundaries. The song itself wasn't necessarily religious (originally, it was about the angst of wanting to beat heroin), but the video featured lots of footage of a movie about the life of Jesus that Mr. Cash produced himself. The result was a visual that suggested a man who was close to death calling out for Jesus. How Christian is that? That's the type of thing that is religious, crosses all kinds of musical genres, and was able to earn the respect of critics, consumers, and musicians. If anything, this one song probably earned him MORE fans. It was art at its purist, and deeply honest. There was no backlash.
All great examples and I stand corrected about that.
Which is a point I made when I said: "They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry..."
There ministry is to sing and witness to people, it has nothing to do with money. They have to make a living too...
Labels are about making money. The only reason there might be a "Christian" label is because they are able to focus their marketing on a certain segment of society. Even the prized "indy" label is out to turn a profit. So, this point hold absolutely no weight as far as I'm concerned.
A Christian label is a Christian label...I mean I don't know what to say here except "those are the facts" :shrug:
I don't think he was referring to sales potential. He was referring to creative potential. Look at Amy Grant. She was a superstar on the Christian music scene, but had to leave it once it started limiting her.
I don't think Amy ever "left" the Christian Music Industry...but it can be a very limiting thing at times! She described it as "scratching someone’s back in the same place over and over...pretty soon the person is either going to tell you to stop or move to a different area." And she did feel as a songwriter that she needed to explore other things...which she does.
But you don't understand, because you are not a listener of Christian music (so I take it). Christian artist DO sing about other things, like Amy. So I don't understand what you are trying to say? The reason that a lot of them don't hit mainstream is not because they or their labels don't want them to...it's mostly because they are with independent labels. Most Contemporary Christian artists write better and more intriguing material than half of the secular pop world out there now.
SteveMacD
10-05-2005, 09:00 PM
Like they are going to be that picky about who is signing them!!! Would you turn down any label deal? And also her label is promoted by Sony/Epic, which actually just started with her new record that came out Tuesday. So hopefully this means they are going to try and push her into the larger arena occupied by Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, MercyMe, Swithfoot...ect....
A label wouldn't be interested in an artist if said artist was playing to a certain crowd. Alligator Records, a blues label, wouldn't sing a punk band.
A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"...:lol: Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.
I'm sure there are many black Christians who agree with him. Or, do they not count in your argument? The fact that he's had one of the biggest albums of the year, I think it's safe to say that he's connecting with lots of people.
Country artist....
What does that have to do with anything? If anything, that hurts your argument. You can't dismiss one genre of music while rigorously defending the legitimacy of another. The fact is that country music IS mainstream these days. Country artists are among the best selling in the business.
the early 1960's....
Again, this hurts your argument. You can't write something off as being too old when rigorously defending a concept that's just under 2000 years old. The fact remains that there have been religous songs recorded by popular artists over the years, and the songs as well as artists continue to be held in high regards, something the ilk of performers YOU'RE talking about will never reach I'm afraid.
And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...
I'll give you MWS, but Amy Grant actually made the annoucnement that she was leaving the Christian music scene to go secular, and had a string of secular hits in the mid-late '80s. As for the rest, I've never heard of them.
And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.
And then there are people who can have two thoughts at the same time. Sex is as much a part of life as religion. The problem I have is when there's too much of either. I get the EXACT same feeling whenever I have to sit through Andrew "Dice" Clay as I do "Christian" music. Both bore me to tears.
Brwn_eyes0511
10-05-2005, 09:07 PM
What does that have to do with anything? If anything, that hurts your argument. You can't dismiss one genre of music while rigorously defending the legitimacy of another. The fact is that country music IS mainstream these days. Country artists are among the best selling in the business.
Woah...hold your horses. I was not BASHING country music. I am a big fan of country music. You obviously missed my point...I was noting that the collection of "religious" songs came from a COUNTRY ARTIST...where generally they are more excepting of "Christian values and ideas".
SteveMacD
10-05-2005, 09:31 PM
Woah...hold your horses. I was not BASHING country music. I am a big fan of country music. You obviously missed my point...I was noting that the collection of "religious" songs came from a COUNTRY ARTIST...where generally they are more excepting of "Christian values and ideas".
You're right. I did miss that point. However, that means your argument that country artists and fans are more accepting of "Christian values and ideas" contradicts your argument that "it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ." If country fans are more accepting of Christian ideology, and if country is one of the most popular genres of music, then we can deduct that morality is not only accepted in popular music, but it is in fact welcomed into popular music.
And, frankly, whenever popular artists have Christian themes in their music, they've often been greeted with extra legitimacy. Aretha Franklin, U2, and Johnny Cash aren't just popular/mainstream artists. They're icons in the music business who are almost universally respected.
NaiveMelody23
10-05-2005, 11:33 PM
To this whole christian music stuff going around, I dont know, but to me Music is Music. Everyone has different tastes, who cares if it is something you don't like...at least it is making someone happy.
Btw, anyone heard the Talking Heads BRICK yet?
DavidMn
10-05-2005, 11:36 PM
To this whole christian music stuff going around, I dont know, but to me Music is Music. Everyone has different tastes, who cares if it is something you don't like...at least it is making someone happy.
Btw, anyone heard the Talking Heads BRICK yet?
good point. :thumbsup:
Metaphors are wonderous things.
Sorry, I really hate smilies. I think they are silly. I think the beautiful English language, when used correctly, makes a point all on its own.
Oh, I agree! You're not going to find any of those bouncy goofy bastards in any of my posts, either. I'd like to think that I'm pretty capable of conveying my tone without them, and that everyone else is capable of picking up on it.
Similes, though, are as dear to me as the first robin of spring...
So were a ton of other mainstream artists, a point which you seem unable to address. Look at Johnny Cash's last big hit, 2003's "Hurt." Since it was originally a Nine Inch Nails song, I have a really hard time calling this country, but Mr. Cash was the type of guy who could cross all kind of musical boundaries. The song itself wasn't necessarily religious (originally, it was about the angst of wanting to beat heroin), but the video featured lots of footage of a movie about the life of Jesus that Mr. Cash produced himself. The result was a visual that suggested a man who was close to death calling out for Jesus. How Christian is that? That's the type of thing that is religious, crosses all kinds of musical genres, and was able to earn the respect of critics, consumers, and musicians. If anything, this one song probably earned him MORE fans. It was art at its purist, and deeply honest. There was no backlash.
Cash also changed Trent's line "I wear this crown of ****" to "I wear this crown of thorns," which really heightened the Christian imagery. Very classy, Johnny.
Anyway, you have fun with this, Steve, but I've given up. Repeating myself over and over only to be greeted with responses that don't really answer the point I was making or the issue I was raising just ain't my cup of tea.
To this whole christian music stuff going around, I dont know, but to me Music is Music.
I think that's part of the point Steve and I were making, actually.
shackin'up
10-06-2005, 06:19 AM
Cash also changed Trent's line "I wear this crown of ****" to "I wear this crown of thorns," which really heightened the Christian imagery. Very classy, Johnny.
I prefer Trent's line, but taking note of Cash's condition and phase he was in this was very appropiate. You're forgiven, Johnny.
I prefer Trent's line,
Can you imagine Cash singing it, though? The man may have had a penchant for throwing around some curse words (his exchange with the audience about this on Live at Folsom Prison is so priceless), but it never came into his music. Trent's line is just perfect for Trent. But Cash's change is just perfect for Cash. He took an already great line and by tweaking it just a little bit changed the whole tenor of the song and adopted it to his own persona and situation.
Kind of like Stevie with "Just Like A Woman," actually. One of the things that makes her version more than just a throwaway cover is that tiny but so very important and telling change of "pearls" to "pills." (I wonder why she didn't just change "fog" to "dogs" and "amphetamines" to "Klonopin" while she was at it?)
shackin'up
10-06-2005, 06:42 AM
Can you imagine Cash singing it, though?
Yes. Perfectly. But not in the context of the situation and his interpretation of this song at this time. I think we agree.
Ack! I completely forgot!
Four Tet, Everything Ecstatic. This is an incredible album just brimming with life and ideas; Kieran Hebden is very talented and is hopefully going to be doing this stuff for a long time.
If you think, "Meh, well, I don't really like dancy laptop music," just go to Amazon and take a listen to "Smile Around The Face." And if you don't have one around yours by the end of the song, well, then, there's really no helping you, is there?
CelticGypsy
10-09-2005, 04:23 PM
Love Rob Thomas!!! I may be older than most of you but I certainly am not dead!! :lol: Great songwriter, sings well and easy on the eyes. Works for me :cool:
Brwn_eyes0511
10-09-2005, 04:50 PM
Love Rob Thomas!!! I may be older than most of you but I certainly am not dead!! :lol: Great songwriter, sings well and easy on the eyes. Works for me :cool:
Rob Thomas is the man! Love his new album...
golddustwoman77
10-09-2005, 05:20 PM
I should add that I love the new Rolling Stones album 'A Bigger Bang.' I was hooked the first listen.
I should have definitely thought of that one too! I love it. I also should have added Paul McCartney's new album "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard." It is excellent also. :nod:
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