Sick!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Clinic offers free abortions in wake of Katrina
Arkansas doctor says it could be dangerous for evacuees to wait


LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - A doctor has offered to perform free abortions on hurricane evacuees, saying it may be too dangerous for them to wait until they return home.

Despite protests from abortion opponents, Little Rock Family Planning clinic director Dr. Jerry Edwards said he has already performed six free abortions. The clinic usually charges between $525 and $600 for a first-trimester abortion.

“If we didn’t provide it now, they would get it later — a late-term abortion that would give greater risk to the mother’s health,” Edwards told KTHV-TV in Little Rock.

Edwards, who runs the only abortion clinic in central Arkansas, was unavailable for further comment Tuesday, a clinic employee told The Associated Press.

Rose Mimms, executive director of Arkansas Right to Life, said Edwards is risking further traumatizing women who have already lost their material belongings. “This just adds to the devastation these women already have in their lives,” she said.

But Marvin Schwartz, spokesman for Arkansas-Oklahoma Planned Parenthood, said Edwards is providing women with a needed service.

“The timing of the abortion procedure is, of course, extremely critical. The earlier in the pregnancy, the less critical it is,” he said.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Mari]

yeah, that kind of sensationalism makes me sick too.

*rolls eyes back in head which doesn't hurt much since I already have had a headache for five days anyway*

[Brwn_eyes0511]

yeah, that kind of sensationalism makes me sick too.

*rolls eyes back in head which doesn't hurt much since I already have had a headache for five days anyway*

Come on up...get your baby killings for free!

[skcin]

What effect does this have on your life? :shrug: I guess this guy should have checked with you for permission first, huh? Oh, wait, he doesn't have too since it's legal.

[Mari]

Come on up...get your baby killings for free!

Thanks for underlining my point.

I feel sick now.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

What effect does this have on your life? :shrug: I guess this guy should have checked with you for permission first, huh? Oh, wait, he doesn't have too since it's legal.

It affects me because it turns my stomach to know that innocent souls are dying everyday...and now it is being offered for free! Excuse me for my compassion.

And hopefully it won't be legal for to much longer...if Bill Maher is correct, and for once I hope he is!!!

[SuzeQuze]

Thanks for underlining my point.

I feel sick now.

Yeah, that's been my general state for a while now too. The older I get the more conservative my views on abortion are (gasp). But I would never ever vote to take a woman's right to choose away. My beliefs are for my life and not to be imposed on others. Even if they are "right". :lol: Just kidding! If that is the option these women are choosing then that is their right.

[seeker007nmss]

Where are the docs giving free prenatal care? :shrug:

[Mari]

He was underlining my point as in 'sensationalism makes me sick' ;)
I'm pro-abortion, that's all I'm going to say about the subject.

[GypsySorcerer]

It affects me because it turns my stomach to know that innocent souls are dying everyday...and now it is being offered for free! Excuse me for my compassion.

And hopefully it won't be legal for to much longer...if Bill Maher is correct, and for once I hope he is!!!
Innocent souls are dying in Iraq, but I don't see any compassion there from you.

[hayley]

Wow, how awful for all the of the people who were forced out of their homes and had their entire lives ruined to be given options. It's not like he's having a gigantic party with clowns and punch and cake and a big flashing road sign that says "GET YER ABORTIONS HERE!"

I'm so tired of vocal, militant pro-lifers. Seriously. I'm glad you disagree with a woman's right to choose. But guess what? That right to choose gives YOU and any who agree with your point of view the CHOICE to never have this procedure yourself.

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing. What about women who may have had this procedure scheduled and are now approaching or have blown through their second trimesters? Would you prefer them to have late-term or partial birth abortions? What about all the women whose pregnancies and health may have been irreperably harmed by all of the horrific conditions, environmental and otherwise, of the evacuation? What about all the women who were RAPED in evacuation areas?

It's not sick. You can disagree with the procedure, but all he's doing is offering help and charity to those who need it and who are CHOOSING to take it. It's not like he's kidnapping women off the streets to suck their babies out for fun.

[dissention]

Give me a break. If the headline read "Clinic offers pro bono abortions in wake of Katrina," it wouldn't be half as salacious and eye-catching.

What an awful thing for women to be given such options without having to worry about the financial ramifications. :rolleyes: They aren't your ****ing bodies.

[amber]

Innocent souls are dying in Iraq, but I don't see any compassion there from you.
Huzzah! Good one. :)

It's not sick. You can disagree with the procedure, but all he's doing is offering help and charity to those who need it and who are CHOOSING to take it. It's not like he's kidnapping women off the streets to suck their babies out for fun.

Very well said.

What do I have to say? Those people are very lucky to have that option. Also, they are lucky because that's a pretty expensive procedure, and lots of insurance doesn't pay for it. Kudos to the doctor/head of the clinic. :thumbsup:

[chiliD]

It affects me because it turns my stomach to know that innocent souls are dying everyday...and now it is being offered for free! Excuse me for my compassion.

And hopefully it won't be legal for to much longer...if Bill Maher is correct, and for once I hope he is!!!


"Compassion" my ass. I've read your posts...you have about as much compassion as our f***ing President...which is zero, nil, none, nada.

If abortions keep more people like YOU from entering this world, bring 'em on.

Asshole.

[Pisces Queen]

I hope that the right to choose is not taken away from women in the United States. It will get real ugly very quickly. Remember back door abortions. We are suppose to live in a free country. Free to do as we choose. If these women choose not to carry a child full term then that is their choice. You may not like it but you are not the one walking in their shoes. Taking on the responsibility of raising a child is enormous. If they choose not too and we take that right away I think that will be detrimental. I know that they should be more careful by using birth control ~ but even that is not 100%.

[DavidMn]

I'm not goinng to sit here and say I like abortions because I dont. But I'm not a woman either, so how can I really know how it feels. I dont mean to sound wishy washy, but that's about how I feel about it

[dissention]

I'm not goinng to sit here and say I like abortions because I dont. But I'm not a woman either, so how can I really know how it feels. I dont mean to sound wishy washy, but that's about how I feel about it

Who LIKES abortions, honey? :shocked: :laugh:

[DavidMn]

Who LIKES abortions, honey? :shocked: :laugh:
This is true. good point.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Innocent souls are dying in Iraq, but I don't see any compassion there from you.

Dear God here goes the Iraq banter...:rolleyes:

Regardless of that, are you denying that innocent souls are being killed by abortion?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Wow, how awful for all the of the people who were forced out of their homes and had their entire lives ruined to be given options. It's not like he's having a gigantic party with clowns and punch and cake and a big flashing road sign that says "GET YER ABORTIONS HERE!"

I'm so tired of vocal, militant pro-lifers. Seriously. I'm glad you disagree with a woman's right to choose. But guess what? That right to choose gives YOU and any who agree with your point of view the CHOICE to never have this procedure yourself.

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing. What about women who may have had this procedure scheduled and are now approaching or have blown through their second trimesters? Would you prefer them to have late-term or partial birth abortions? What about all the women whose pregnancies and health may have been irreperably harmed by all of the horrific conditions, environmental and otherwise, of the evacuation? What about all the women who were RAPED in evacuation areas?

It's not sick. You can disagree with the procedure, but all he's doing is offering help and charity to those who need it and who are CHOOSING to take it. It's not like he's kidnapping women off the streets to suck their babies out for fun.

Blah dee blah blah blah...

What was that?

You know after the same spewing rhetoric for years and years, one kind of grows numb to the "It's all about a woman's choice" garbage!

[dissention]

Dear God here goes the Iraq banter...:rolleyes:

Regardless of that, are you denying that innocent souls are being killed by abortion?

That depends on whether or not she believes a zygote and some cells constitute a "soul."

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Huzzah! Good one. :)

trite one. :)

[skcin]

Dear God here goes the Iraq banter...:rolleyes:

Regardless of that, are you denying that innocent souls are being killed by abortion?


Are you going to prove it?

[JazmenFlowers]

Abortion may not be right for you or agreeable with you. It's not for me either, but it is not my place nor yours to have to accept it. It is the woman's (hopefully the couple's) choice to decide that. I could never have an abortion, but I would never want to impose such a ****ty, sarcastic remark as you made on someone who has to make such a hard decision.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

"Compassion" my ass. I've read your posts...you have about as much compassion as our f***ing President...which is zero, nil, none, nada.

If abortions keep more people like YOU from entering this world, bring 'em on.

Asshole.

Hey moderators....

strike 1?

:rolleyes:

[dissention]

Blah dee blah blah blah...

What was that?

You know after the same spewing rhetoric for years and years, one kind of grows numb to the "It's all about a woman's choice" garbage!

That's nice. The fact remains that you are not a woman, these are not your bodies, and it's none of your goddamned business what they do with their bodies. If you don't like that, tough tacos, but it's reality and your holier-than-thou routine when it comes to abortion is tired. Consider yourself lucky that you have a dick and balls instead of being a woman and having to make a decision like that.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Who LIKES abortions, honey? :shocked: :laugh:

liberals? :shrug:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That depends on whether or not she believes a zygote and some cells constitute a "soul."

Which is why I asked her that!

[dissention]

liberals? :shrug:

You're the sick one, pal.

But I had forgotten for a moment about how you came onto this board and called us "baby killers." Silly me.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Are you going to prove it?

Would you even believe me if I tried? :rolleyes:

Didn't think so...

so, no!

[skcin]

liberals? :shrug:


I consider that a personal attack on me, since I am a liberal & you're saying that I LIKE abortions.

Moderators?

:rolleyes:

[JazmenFlowers]

liberals? :shrug:

I'm liberal and last time I checked I didn't like abortions.

[skcin]

Would you even believe me if I tried? :rolleyes:

Didn't think so...

so, no!


I would absolutely believe you if you provided scientific evidence & gave your sources, sure. Do you have any of this?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Abortion may not be right for you or agreeable with you. It's not for me either, but it is not my place nor yours to have to accept it. It is the woman's (hopefully the couple's) choice to decide that. I could never have an abortion, but I would never want to impose such a ****ty, sarcastic remark as you made on someone who has to make such a hard decision.

"such a hard decsion"

oh how touching....:rollyeyes:

I'm not going to pretend to sugarcoat my feelings towards this, nor am I going to back down from what I believe...which is...abortion is EVIL AND DISGUSTING and shouldn't be an option for anyone!

[DavidMn]

"such a hard decsion"

oh how touching....:rollyeyes:

I'm not going to pretend to sugarcoat my feelings towards this, nor am I going to back down from what I believe...which is...abortion is EVIL AND DISGUSTING and shouldn't be an option for anyone!
Ok, we get it. Time to give it a rest, don't you think?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You're the sick one, pal.

But I had forgotten for a moment about how you came onto this board and called us "baby killers." Silly me.

Oh don't sit there and deny it! Let's be honest...come now. Don't stand by your opinion that its not even a baby...let alone a being with a soul...and then turn around and say that it REALLY matters all that much to you!

[hayley]

Blah dee blah blah blah...

What was that?

You know after the same spewing rhetoric for years and years, one kind of grows numb to the "It's all about a woman's choice" garbage!
Wow. The vast majority of my post had nothing to do with that rhetoric, and was instead addressing the issue of the kind doctor you posted the ridiculously inflammatory article about. But obviously you don't want to talk about that, do you?

You're a tool.

[JazmenFlowers]

"such a hard decsion"

oh how touching....:rollyeyes:

I'm not going to pretend to sugarcoat my feelings towards this, nor am I going to back down from what I believe...which is...abortion is EVIL AND DISGUSTING and shouldn't be an option for anyone!

congrats, you're a hardass...seems like you need to be listening to Amy Grant a little more and Ann Coulter a little less before you become completely non-human

I'm dunzo -

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ok, we get it. Time to give it a rest, don't you think?

Well, not until it is done away with...

[skcin]

"such a hard decsion"

oh how touching....:rollyeyes:

I'm not going to pretend to sugarcoat my feelings towards this, nor am I going to back down from what I believe...which is...abortion is EVIL AND DISGUSTING and shouldn't be an option for anyone!


Nobdoy's telling you that you should back down. But I happen to disagree, and I'm not backing down either. :shrug:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

congrats, you're a hardass...seems like you need to be listening to Amy Grant a little more and Ann Coulter a little less before you become completely non-human

And what you think Ms. Grant is a supporter of abortion. You should take a look at her political history...she is a HUGE conservative/republican! So now Amy is heartless for not supporting the murder of a child before it sees the light of day?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That's nice. The fact remains that you are not a woman, these are not your bodies, and it's none of your goddamned business what they do with their bodies. If you don't like that, tough tacos, but it's reality and your holier-than-thou routine when it comes to abortion is tired. Consider yourself lucky that you have a dick and balls instead of being a woman and having to make a decision like that.

Well, you know, if the option wasn't there...

[stargazer99]

Dear God here goes the Iraq banter...:rolleyes:

Regardless of that, are you denying that innocent souls are being killed by abortion?



If people like you would spend half as much time thinking about some of these "innocent poor souls", the rest of us might actually take you a little more seriously:

WARNING: Very graphic

http://www.irregulartimes.com/dead.html

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you try to force your "moral values" on the rest of us, when you couldn't give a cr*p about real, living human beings who are dying by the thousands. Or all the people (including many innocent children) were caused needless suffering and death due to our government's nonchalance as people were drowning and starving in New Orleans. Unbelievable!

[dissention]

Oh don't sit there and deny it! Let's be honest...come now. Don't stand by your opinion that its not even a baby...let alone a being with a soul...and then turn around and say that it REALLY matters all that much to you!

Don't you dare presume to tell me what "REALLY matters" to me and what doesn't. You don't know **** about ****, let alone what matters to me.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I consider that a personal attack on me, since I am a liberal & you're saying that I LIKE abortions.

Moderators?

:rolleyes:

But according to you...it's not a bad thing (if it were then you wouldn't support it)...so why is it a "personal attack"

However, coming right out and calling someone an asshole...is!

And I wouldn't press it...if I myself had not already had two strikes for something pointless and stupid...and for less than calling someone an asshole!

[dissention]

Well, you know, if the option wasn't there...

If the option wasn't out there, we'd have women dying from shoving knitting needles and coat hangers up their vaginas. Women would be battling life-threatening infections after paying butchers for abortions. You should know that, being the compassionate conservative that you are.

[DavidMn]

Well, not until it is done away with...
I'm sorry I just cant agree with you. I dont fault your conviction, but I dont agree with it.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Don't you dare presume to tell me what "REALLY matters" to me and what doesn't. You don't know **** about ****, let alone what matters to me.

touche! :wavey:

I think I hit a nerve nancy! God I love when I'm right!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I'm sorry I just cant agree with you. I dont fault your conviction, but I dont agree with it.

and that is respectable!

[dissention]

And what you think Ms. Grant is a supporter of abortion. You should take a look at her political history...she is a HUGE conservative/republican! So now Amy is heartless for not supporting the murder of a child before it sees the light of day?

Didn't Amy Grant used to do endorsements for Target?

[DavidMn]

touche! :wavey:

I think I hit a nerve nancy! God I love when I'm right!
now that's the problem right there. It's not that you believe what you believe in, its when you presume to believe youre right and others are wrong. That's being unfair and overbearing.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

If the option wasn't out there, we'd have women dying from shoving knitting needles and coat hangers up their vaginas. Women would be battling life-threatening infections after paying butchers for abortions. You should know that, being the compassionate conservative that you are.

Well if the woman is foolish enough to seek out such idiocy...

I mean there is only so much that can be regulated. Sort of like...well if they were dumb enough to jump off that bridge.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Didn't Amy Grant used to do endorsements for Target?

Not to my knowledge.

[dissention]

Not to my knowledge.

Then you must not have a vast array of knowledge because she did, and Target is a big supporter of Planned Parenthood. They even sponsored one of her tours.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

now that's the problem right there. It's not that you believe what you believe in, its when you presume to believe youre right and others are wrong. That's being unfair and overbearing.

perhaps so...

I'm not a claimer of "no faults of my own."

However I was saying, in that case, that I was right about the statement he just made...and I called him on it.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Then you must not have a vast array of knowledge because she did, and Target is a big supporter of Planned Parenthood. They even sponsored one of her concerts.

Hmmm...I'll have to check into that. Do you have links? What time period?

And I can assure you that Amy IS NOT a supporter of Planned Parenthood. Just because Target is...doesn't mean that Amy is!

[skcin]

But according to you...it's not a bad thing (if it were then you wouldn't support it)...so why is it a "personal attack"

However, coming right out and calling someone an asshole...is!

And I wouldn't press it...if I myself had not already had two strikes for something pointless and stupid...and for less than calling someone an asshole!


When did I say that abortion wasn't a bad thing? :shrug:

As Diss pointed out, nobody likes abortions. Nobody thinks they are a wonderful, glorious thing. Therefore, your inference that I (and other liberals) like abortions is offensive to me - got it?

BTW - I do agree that name calling is not appropriate. Just because someone is ignorant and close-minded doesn't mean people should call said person an asshole.

[DavidMn]

perhaps so...

I'm not a claimer of "no faults of my own."

However I was saying, in that case, that I was right about the statement he just made...and I called him on it.
Fair enough. I really dont have a problem with you, no matter what your views are, because this is a free country, I'm just trying to be reasonable in pointing things out that I find arent the most fair.

[dissention]

And I can assure you that Amy IS NOT a supporter of Planned Parenthood. Just because Target is...doesn't mean that Amy is!

So, she just jumps into bed with the big daddies wielding the cash?

[DavidMn]

Hmmm...I'll have to check into that. Do you have links? What time period?

And I can assure you that Amy IS NOT a supporter of Planned Parenthood. Just because Target is...doesn't mean that Amy is!
Well, then as far as I'm concerned she shouldnt have Target sponsering her tour. Otherwise, that's quite hypocritical in my opinion.

[JazmenFlowers]

Then you must not have a vast array of knowledge because she did, and Target is a big supporter of Planned Parenthood. They even sponsored one of her tours.

So, she just jumps into bed with the big daddies wielding the cash?


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

oh yeah, I said I was dunzo...:lol:

[WildInTheWind]

liberals? :shrug:

Uh...I'm a liberal, and when I got pregnant at 19 I kept mine. :wavey:

[skcin]

Uh...I'm a liberal, and when I got pregnant at 19 I kept mine. :wavey:


Well, yeah, but according to him you MUST LIKE abortions, right? ;)

[WildInTheWind]

And I can assure you that Amy IS NOT a supporter of Planned Parenthood. Just because Target is...doesn't mean that Amy is!

Is something wrong with planned parenthood? :shrug: I go there to get my annuals and pills cause I can't afford health insurance. I'm sure as hell glad it's there.

[WildInTheWind]

Well, yeah, but according to him you MUST LIKE abortions, right? ;)

Oh I love them! Fun stuff, let me tell you. ;)

[seeker007nmss]

We interrupt this serious thread for a seeker cute critter photo thread break:


Baby cheetah:


<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/baby-cheetah-cub.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


Now back to our regulary scheduled discussion.

[skcin]

Nice try, Jim. :thumbsup:

[WildInTheWind]

We interrupt this serious thread for a seeker cute critter photo thread break:


Baby cheetah:


<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/baby-cheetah-cub.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


Now back to our regulary scheduled discussion.

Awwww........I want one! :p

[dissention]

Liz Phair and Sheryl Crow are pro-choice. :)

Get out! I am shocked.

*sarcasm drips*

[Brwn_eyes0511]

So, she just jumps into bed with the big daddies wielding the cash?

I shop it target and so do millions of others...does that mean that all support associations supported by Target? No.

I bought Sheryl Crow's new album...she is very much against the war in Iraq...does that mean that I am also? No.

What's your point?

So yes, I suppose sometimes things just are simply BUSINESS relationships.

[skcin]

Where'd he go? Aw, come on, you can't start a game & then just stop playing! :wavey:

Hmmm...must be digging up links I asked for with scientific proof that souls are kiled during abortions. Yes. That must be it.

EDIT: Oh, good you're back. Well, I have to go now, I'll check back in later.

[GateandGarden]

liberals? :shrug:Don't make me pull out the "f*ck you" and wind up with a strike. You're asking for it with that, though. I can't believe you would say something like that.

Of course if I think back to things you've said in the past and use them as gauges, then it's not hard to believe.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Uh...I'm a liberal, and when I got pregnant at 19 I kept mine. :wavey:

BRAVO! :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

I consider that a personal attack on me, since I am a liberal & you're saying that I LIKE abortions.

Moderators?

:rolleyes:

i wonder if ole W thought about that when his family killed the fetus in the girl he knocked up and then paid her hush money and apparently still is.

See, that's the thing about abortion. Any attempt to get rid of it will only effect the poor because the rich will always be able to pay some doctor to do it as opposed to using a coat hanger in a back ally. Sad, very true.

[dissention]

What's your point?


Point being that if she's pro-life, she's a pro-life hypocrite simply for the money. :xoxo:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Don't make me pull out the "f*ck you" and wind up with a strike. You're asking for it with that, though. I can't believe you would say something like that.

Of course if I think back to things you've said in the past and use them as gauges, then it's not hard to believe.

I mean come on now...let's not pretend that liberals don't look at the issue of abortion as a trivial matter. If you think that it is not a baby...but a "giant clump of cells" then why is it such a big deal? If this is a soulless combination of tissue...then why so touché about it?

[dissention]

:confused:

I was being sarcastic, hon. :laugh:

[sara1998]

BRAVO! :thumbsup:
You really do think you're holier-than-thou, don't you? Get off the soap box.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Point being that if she's pro-life, she's a pro-life hypocrite simply for the money. :xoxo:
Could it be that perhaps she was unaware of Target's affiliations?

[JazmenFlowers]

I shop it target and so do millions of others...does that mean that all support associations supported by Target? No.

I bought Sheryl Crow's new album...she is very much against the war in Iraq...does that mean that I am also? No.

What's your point?

So yes, I suppose sometimes things just are simply BUSINESS relationships.

the correct answer Pat is Yes and Yes (especially when you're supposed to be so staunchly against something)

I'd also like to buy a vowel. "I" And I'd like to solve the puzzle, "I.D.I.O.T"

I know some say name calling is not called for, but honestly this is the most fitting word and the definition of idiot fits...see below:

idiot

n : a person of subnormal intelligence

(and I'm still not dunzo)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You really do think you're holier-than-thou, don't you? Get off the soap box.

No, I never said that. I actually I have said much to the contrary.

Words - mouth - don't put them there please!

[dissention]

Could it be that perhaps she was unaware of Target's affiliations?

I highly doubt it, considering that it's no secret that they are huge Planned Parenthood supporters, routinely donating around $20,000 per year.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

the correct answer Pat is Yes and Yes (especially when you're supposed to be so staunchly against something)

I'd also like to buy a vowel. "I" And I'd like to solve the puzzle, "I.D.I.O.T"

I know some say name calling is not called for, but honestly this is the most fitting word and the definition of idiot fits...see below:

idiot

n : a person of subnormal intelligence

(and I'm still not dunzo)

Ok we obviously see different on this issue. I'm able to separate my political beliefs from the types of entertainment that I like.

So that makes me an idiot?

[seeker007nmss]

All this "discussion" is making my cat a bit edgey......




<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/attackkitty.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[sara1998]

No, I never said that. I actually I have said much to the contrary.

Words - mouth - don't put them there please!

Those words came out of my mouth.... and it's MY MOUTH. So, don't tell me what to do with it......

[strandinthewind]

Here is the deal on the person known as Brown Eyes - He likes to post things to piss people off. he does not care to discuss them. Moreover, when he does discuss them, he cajoles people into thinking he is serious and then attacks them and then later acts like a victim. So, be warned before responding to this trip - it is a trap.

For instance, he admitted in the Carter/Gore thread that he posts to piss people off and cares not if people respect him or apparently if they take him seriously. Thus, he is by my understanding of the definition, a troll in that regard.

To wit:

Yea hello, I never "swore" off pissing liberals off...that really is the point right? I just said that I would be more "gentle" in my pissing off approach!

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...589&page=5&pp=3

Do you honestly think that I come here, to gain respect from you guys and to appear as a genius? Of course I am going to look like an idiot! Let’s take a look at the people I’m surrounded by here. One "right-winger" amongst many, many "left-wingers" is not going to be well liked! If you think I'm on a desperate mission to seek the approval of those whom I do not even know...you really have no clue.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...?t=22589&page=3

Yet, he then said, quite inexplicably IMO:

Never presented myself as a victim, just simply stated that I wasn't being taken seriously. Not mad about it. Not crying over it. Just said it was pointless!

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...89&page=5&pp=15

Then - to the contray of his whining about not being taken seriously:

Again, I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me, hence the "I'm not here to gain respect" reference above. Silly rabbit...

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...89&page=5&pp=15

To be fair, the whole thread should be read for a better concept of the context. But, that is what he said in direct response to questions like the one you posed.
____________________________________________________

Also, ChiliD just said what most think. So, kudos to him.

[JazmenFlowers]

Ok we obviously see different on this issue. I'm able to separate my political beliefs from the types of entertainment that I like.

So that makes me an idiot?

yep :nod:

but mostly because that's B.S. and you know it - it just so happens to help you in this situation.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I highly doubt it, considering that it's no secret that they are huge Planned Parenthood supporters, routinely donating around $20,000 per year.

So you...highly doubt...about this. So your right?

I'm sorry!

Now who’s making presumptions about WHOM? Let's not pretend you know Ms. Grant.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Where'd he go? Aw, come on, you can't start a game & then just stop playing! :wavey:

Hmmm...must be digging up links I asked for with scientific proof that souls are kiled during abortions. Yes. That must be it.

EDIT: Oh, good you're back. Well, I have to go now, I'll check back in later.

I'm not allowed to go pick my brother up from V-Basketball practice...? :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

All this "discussion" is making my cat a bit edgey......




<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/attackkitty.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Now that is FUNNY!

[dissention]

So you...highly doubt...about this. So your right?

I'm sorry!

Now who’s making presumptions about WHOM? Let's not pretend you know Ms. Grant.

You mean to tell me that a Christian artist like her whose fanbase is made up of religious types doesn't have her business managers investigate the companies she takes money from and endorses before jumping into bed with them? You are quite naive if you think so.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Those words came out of my mouth.... and it's MY MOUTH. So, don't tell me what to do with it......

I didn't tell you to do that either...

Calm down. This is JUST a discussion you know! :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Here is the deal on the person known as Brown Eyes - He likes to post things to piss people off. he does not care to discuss them. Moreover, when he does discuss them, he cajoles people into thinking he is serious and then attacks them and then later acts like a victim. So, be warned before responding to this trip - it is a trap.

For instance, he admitted in the Carter/Gore thread that he posts to piss people off and cares not if people respect him or apparently if they take him seriously. Thus, he is by my understanding of the definition, a troll in that regard.

To wit:

Yea hello, I never "swore" off pissing liberals off...that really is the point right? I just said that I would be more "gentle" in my pissing off approach!

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...589&page=5&pp=3

Do you honestly think that I come here, to gain respect from you guys and to appear as a genius? Of course I am going to look like an idiot! Let’s take a look at the people I’m surrounded by here. One "right-winger" amongst many, many "left-wingers" is not going to be well liked! If you think I'm on a desperate mission to seek the approval of those whom I do not even know...you really have no clue.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...?t=22589&page=3

Yet, he then said, quite inexplicably IMO:

Never presented myself as a victim, just simply stated that I wasn't being taken seriously. Not mad about it. Not crying over it. Just said it was pointless!

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...89&page=5&pp=15

Then - to the contray of his whining about not being taken seriously:

Again, I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me, hence the "I'm not here to gain respect" reference above. Silly rabbit...

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/s...89&page=5&pp=15

To be fair, the whole thread should be read for a better concept of the context. But, that is what he said in direct response to questions like the one you posed.
____________________________________________________

Also, ChiliD just said what most think. So, kudos to him.

I actually just made a bet with an anonymous party that someone here would bring this stuff up...10 minutes later...here they are!

BWAHHAHAHA!!!

Hope they have paypal. OHHH...maybe I can get the paperback copy of "How To Talk To A Liberal (If You Must)" today afterall!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

yep :nod:

but mostly because that's B.S. and you know it - it just so happens to help you in this situation.

It's B.S. to like an artist and their music or whatever art they produce...BECAUSE they have different political views than you? :confused:

Hope you don't like country music then.

Hey, I bet your one of those who has no life so you ponder on politics everyday...right?

[Neal]

I highly doubt it, considering that it's no secret that they are huge Planned Parenthood supporters, routinely donating around $20,000 per year.

I don't blame them. Every time I walk into Target and proceed to be trampled by dozens of feral children, I too consider donating $20,000 to Planned Parenthood :nod: .






Of course I'm only kidding! :rolleyes:

[JazmenFlowers]

It's B.S. to like an artist and their music or whatever art they produce...BECAUSE they have different political views than you? :confused:
:confused:?

not surprised

Hope you don't like country music then.
I actually do like some country music. Dolly, for instance, loves her gay fanbase and is quite liberal in some of her views.

Hey, I bet your one of those who has no life so you ponder on politics everyday...right?
lol - actually, I have a lot going on. work 50+ hours/week, in graduate school 3 nights a week and have a very active social life and don't care too much for politics - I do, however, ponder how critical some people are of others when they have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes or deal with their issues

[seeker007nmss]

<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/kitty.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[Brwn_eyes0511]

:confused:?

not surprised

Sorry, still don't understand why I can't like those who have a different political view than me. I mean isn't that tolerance? Isn't that what the Democratic Party stands for? Where does the tolerance end...conservatives?


I actually do like some country music. Dolly, for instance, loves her gay fanbase and is quite liberal in some of her views.

I like Dolly as well. :nod:

But I hope you don't like many other country artist...because if you do...according to your rule...you must throw away their albums right now!


lol - actually, I have a lot going on. work 50+ hours/week, in graduate school 3 nights a week and have a very active social life and don't care too much for politics - I do, however, ponder how critical some people are of others when they have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes or deal with their issues

Wow, congrats on all of that stuff...that really sounds like a work load! I know school + work is not easy!

[seeker007nmss]

Well.....I am going to bed....Carry on......


<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/card_163_r.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well.....I am going to bed....Carry on......


<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/card_163_r.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

:wavey:

That is cute though!

[chiliD]

I'm not allowed to go pick my brother up from V-Basketball practice...? :laugh:


What if you didn't have the choice that you could go?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

What if you didn't have the choice that you could go?

huh? :confused:

[dissention]

I actually do like some country music. Dolly, for instance, loves her gay fanbase and is quite liberal in some of her views.


Dolly's definitely a liberal from what I've observed. I have a bootleg from her show at Radio City in New York last month and she makes many comments that are obviously anti-war. She talks about Bob Dylan's "Blowin' In the Wind" and says "I listened to it and thought this song is about what's going on right now! I've got to record this." She praised Jane Fonda, then she sang Lennon's "Imagine" and said that she didn't think we'd ever have peace. She's smart for not getting into poltics, though, because it would kill her career.

[SuzeQuze]

We interrupt this serious thread for a seeker cute critter photo thread break:


Baby cheetah:


<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/baby-cheetah-cub.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


Now back to our regulary scheduled discussion.

Please tell me where you find all these cute pics, are they all in one place? They're all wonderful. I love animals!

[SuzeQuze]

When did I say that abortion wasn't a bad thing? :shrug:

As Diss pointed out, nobody likes abortions. Nobody thinks they are a wonderful, glorious thing. Therefore, your inference that I (and other liberals) like abortions is offensive to me - got it?

BTW - I do agree that name calling is not appropriate. Just because someone is ignorant and close-minded doesn't mean people should call said person an asshole.

This is true, it is a personal attack even if someone has been baited (which is also against the rules). Please let's not reduce ourselves to name calling!

[GateandGarden]

I mean come on now...let's not pretend that liberals don't look at the issue of abortion as a trivial matter. If you think that it is not a baby...but a "giant clump of cells" then why is it such a big deal? If this is a soulless combination of tissue...then why so touché about it?I don't know anyone who looks at it as something trivial. When you use words like "soul," that's when you run into trouble. You get into a spiritual/religious realm and then it's subjective and impossible to prove and establishing a law would be difficult.

[JazmenFlowers]

I don't know anyone who looks at it as something trivial. When you use words like "soul," that's when you run into trouble. You get into a spiritual/religious realm and then it's subjective and impossible to prove and establishing a law would be difficult.


this is so off-topic, but who is that in your signature? gorgeous bone structure.

...and that line about failures is heartbreaking...is it meant to be?

[GateandGarden]

this is so off-topic, but who is that in your signature? gorgeous bone structure.It's Nico. :) She was with The Velvet Underground briefly, had a solo career, and worked as a model. Jen here on The Ledge (whose username is "Nico," in fact) got me into her. Jen rules. :nod:

[GateandGarden]

...and that line about failures is heartbreaking...is it meant to be?I meant for it to be when I decided to put it there. I was feeling all melancholy when I put my sig together. The song was actually written by Jackson Browne, though Nico did write a good bit of her own material, too.

[JazmenFlowers]

I meant for it to be when I decided to put it there. I was feeling all melancholy when I put my sig together. The song was actually written by Jackson Browne, though Nico did write a good bit of her own material, too.

cool - thanks - I'll have to look her up

[GateandGarden]

cool - thanks - I'll have to look her upCool site. http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/index2.html :thumbsup:

[chiliD]

huh? :confused:

Keep up, will ya?

You profess taking away a woman's right to control her own body by banning abortion...and offering the question "what if it wasn't an option?". Well, I'm offering a similar question. What if your choice to go pick up your brother wasn't an option? How would you deal with it?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Keep up, will ya?

You profess taking away a woman's right to control her own body by banning abortion...and offering the question "what if it wasn't an option?". Well, I'm offering a similar question. What if your choice to go pick up your brother wasn't an option? How would you deal with it?

Oh no...Now this is just silly.

Me picking up my brother...compared with the destruction of a life?

If I didn't have the "choice" to go and pick up my brother...I would simply call someone else to do it? :shrug:

Or let the teenage monster stay at school for one night, it won't hurt him! :laugh:

[Dark Angel]

And hopefully it won't be legal for to much longer...if Bill Maher is correct, and for once I hope he is!!!

I wasn't going to even bother with posting to this thread, but I do have a question for you regarding abortions. If you were married, your wife were pregnant, and you were told by her physician that the pregnancy/birth would kill her, and you had to choose between aborting a 1-2 month old fetus that you've never seen, or allowing the pregnancy take the life of a woman you truly love, with every ounce of your being, and could not even fathom spending the rest of your life without, what choice would you make?

[chiliD]

Oh no...Now this is just silly.

So is your entire "ban abortion" premise. Although, truth be told, if it weren't so f-ing insane, it WOULD be silly.

Not ONLY should we keep abortion legal, we should ALSO legalize euthanasia for the terminally ill. If we can do it to our pets, we ought to be able to do it to ourselves, as well. Let's clean out all the Death Rows, too...they were sentenced to DEATH, not sit in a cell for a couple of decades until they finally get around to stickin' the syringe in.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Well, Mick said "Stevie this is just one more link the chain
And do not FEED THE TROLL, please...."

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I wasn't going to even bother with posting to this thread, but I do have a question for you regarding abortions. If you were married, your wife were pregnant, and you were told by her physician that the pregnancy/birth would kill her, and you had to choose between aborting a 1-2 month old fetus that you've never seen, or allowing the pregnancy take the life of a woman you truly love, with every ounce of your being, and could not even fathom spending the rest of your life without, what choice would you make?

Well firstly it is important to make clear that the child's life is dependent upon his mother in a unique manner, a manner which calls for an act of self-spending on her part. The life-giving burden carried by mothers, and only by mothers, must be kept clearly in view throughout our ethical reflection. There are unusual circumstances in which a mother will die if an abortion is not performed....granted very unusual. Even in such circumstances a mother may choose to risk her own life as an act of love, but such an act of self-giving cannot be required. So I suppose it would be up to the mother in this case. But this is the only case where I would see an abortion as any sort of option.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

So is your entire "ban abortion" premise. Although, truth be told, if it weren't so f-ing insane, it WOULD be silly.

Not ONLY should we keep abortion legal, we should ALSO legalize euthanasia for the terminally ill. If we can do it to our pets, we ought to be able to do it to ourselves, as well. Let's clean out all the Death Rows, too...they were sentenced to DEATH, not sit in a cell for a couple of decades until they finally get around to stickin' the syringe in.

Comparing humans to animals are we...

No need for further explanation bud.

However I am with you on the Death Row thing. I'm tired getting kind of tired of paying for them.

[dissention]

I'm tired getting kind of tired of paying for them.

Capital punishment costs more money than it does to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Capital punishment costs more money than it does to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives.

Good lord..."I'm tired getting kind of tired." I really should over look my stuff sometimes! :lol:

But also they are actually getting their sentence...and not the "easy" way out.

[chiliD]

Comparing humans to animals are we...

Not a comparison, Humans ARE animals.

[SuzeQuze]

this is so off-topic, but who is that in your signature? gorgeous bone structure.

...and that line about failures is heartbreaking...is it meant to be?

Especially if you grew up with a very critical mother - but I digress. I agree, that woman is gorgeous and I have also been meaning to ask who she is.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Not a comparison, Humans ARE animals.

"Oh GOD it's even worse than I thought"

Hey Bea Arthur JUST said it as soon as I read your response. Had to use it!

[dissention]

But also they are actually getting their sentence...and not the "easy" way out.

How God-like. You object to abortions, but support capital punishment. Hypocrisy knows no bounds, I suppose.

[SuzeQuze]

Well, Mick said "Stevie this is just one more link the chain
And do not FEED THE TROLL, please...."

:xoxo: The voice of reason. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

How God-like. You object to abortions, but support capital punishment. Hypocrisy knows no bounds, I suppose.

Well there is a difference you know. Although I have been up in the air about capital punishment before, and to be honest I still am...The difference is...the unborn child has done nothing to deserve such treatment. Those on death row have been sentenced to death for a reason.

[dissention]

Well there is a difference you know. Although I have been up in the air about capital punishment before, and to be honest I still am...The difference is...the unborn child has done nothing to deserve such treatment. Those on death row have been sentenced to death for a reason.

And with that inane logic, I'm off to watch Anderson Cooper. Ciao. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

And with that inane logic, I'm off to watch Anderson Cooper. Ciao. :laugh:

That is no more inane than your "I pretend to care about abortion, when really I believe that the baby is nothing more than a clump of cells, but when someone points out that hypocrisy I get all huffy" logic! :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Especially if you grew up with a very critical mother - but I digress. I agree, that woman is gorgeous and I have also been meaning to ask who she is.Yeah, she is really beautiful. :nod:

[GateandGarden]

"Oh GOD it's even worse than I thought"

Hey Bea Arthur JUST said it as soon as I read your response. Had to use it!Sorry, but humans really are animals.

[GateandGarden]

That is no more inane than your "I pretend to care about abortion, when really I believe that the baby is nothing more than a clump of cells, but when someone points out that hypocrisy I get all huffy" logic! :xoxo:Well, you seem to be simplifying it. There is a difference between a baby, an embryo, and a fetus. :shrug: You make it sound like Josh is saying that a newborn is a clump of cells.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, you seem to be simplifying it. There is a difference between a baby, an embryo, and a fetus. :shrug: You make it sound like Josh is saying that a newborn is a clump of cells.

Sorry, I should have said fetus! But I tend to stay away from that when I discuss life...because to me life is life and should looked at with a compassionate eye, and that’s hard to do when you use such cold terms as "fetus" or "embryo".

But, point taken! :)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Sorry, but humans really are animals.

If you mean in the scientific way...yes I suppose. If you mean in the "there is no God and we have no soul or purpose" way...then I have to say I disagree.

[Karlie]

liberals? :shrug:

I'm a liberal but I'm extremely anti-abortion. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Sorry, I should have said fetus! But I tend to stay away from that when I discuss life...because to me life is life and should looked at with a compassionate eye, and that’s hard to do when you use such cold terms as "fetus" or "embryo".

But, point taken! :)Well, I want to look at life that way, too. And I do. I have many beliefs about life that some people just don't buy into. My personal beliefs about life that aren't based on science are not points of arguments I bring up during an abortion debate because they are not relevant. The laws of the land don't adhere to particular spiritual/religious beliefs. As Locke would say (not verbatim), we have to let "reason" reign over "passion."

[SuzeQuze]

If you mean in the scientific way...yes I suppose. If you mean in the "there is no God and we have no soul or purpose" way...then I have to say I disagree.

You don't think animals have souls? I think they do.

[estranged4life]

an abortion is a fetus, But with a chicken it is an omelet?"-George Carlin

It is so damn hard to keep out of political discussions as much I try (Impossible is the word of the day.) but the way I see abortion is simple:

It is a woman's body, Thus her individual choice....Not to be decided by some tightass, suit wearing political clowns with aspirations for God-hood.

Brian "Never call me a Liberal or a Conservative" j.

[GateandGarden]

If you mean in the scientific way...yes I suppose. If you mean in the "there is no God and we have no soul or purpose" way...then I have to say I disagree.Whether or not we have souls, etc. doesn't really have anything to do with it. :shrug: Regardless of what I meant and/or what Steve meant, humans are still animals.

[GateandGarden]

You don't think animals have souls? I think they do.Me too.....

[chiliD]

You don't think animals have souls? I think they do.

I don't "think" they do...I KNOW they do.

[GateandGarden]

I don't "think" they do...I KNOW they do.I don't see how anyone knows that any creature has a soul.

[chiliD]

Have you had an encounter with a soul from the after-life? human or otherwise?

[Johnny Stew]

I don't see how anyone knows that any creature has a soul.Well, obviously it's not something we "know" any more than we "know" that human beings have souls.

But if we have souls, then animals most definitely do.

[gldstwmn]

Is something wrong with planned parenthood? :shrug: I go there to get my annuals and pills cause I can't afford health insurance. I'm sure as hell glad it's there.

No, nothing is wrong with Planned Parenthood. In fact, it may surprise a lot of people to know that the late Senator Prescott Bush (George's grandfather) was a big proponent of Planned Parenthood many years ago.

[GateandGarden]

Have you had an encounter with a soul from the after-life? human or otherwise?No. What does that have to do with it? Based on your logic, couldn't you say that Brandon knows all of us here on The Ledge are going to hell if we're not Christian? Because he knows that Jesus is the only way to heaven and so on and so forth? I'd say those things are along the same lines.

You can believe something but that doesn't mean you know it, like we know mathematical equations or Newton's laws.

[GateandGarden]

Well, obviously it's not something we "know" any more than we "know" that human beings have souls.

But if we have souls, than animals most definitely do.I agree in that I believe the same as you do but I'm not sure we could "know" that animals must also have souls if we were to "know" that we do. Many theologians would still say that having a soul is what distinguishes a human from an animal, right? How would we know for certain that they are wrong?

[gldstwmn]

<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/kitty.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Good one! :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Well, Mick said "Stevie this is just one more link the chain
And do not FEED THE TROLL, please...."

Ooh...that's from the Cloaks And Daggers CD, right? :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, I want to look at life that way, too. And I do. I have many beliefs about life that some people just don't buy into. My personal beliefs about life that aren't based on science are not points of arguments I bring up during an abortion debate because they are not relevant. The laws of the land don't adhere to particular spiritual/religious beliefs. As Locke would say (not verbatim), we have to let "reason" reign over "passion."

And I agree with you on that. But I think that it is "reasonable" to not want to see the destruction of a generation.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

an abortion is a fetus, But with a chicken it is an omelet?"-George Carlin

It is so damn hard to keep out of political discussions as much I try (Impossible is the word of the day.) but the way I see abortion is simple:

It is a woman's body, Thus her individual choice....Not to be decided by some tightass, suit wearing political clowns with aspirations for God-hood.

Brian "Never call me a Liberal or a Conservative" j.

[light hearted]With statements like that bud, it's kind of hard not to label you as a liberal. :D [/light hearted]

[GateandGarden]

And I agree with you on that. But I think that it is "reasonable" to not want to see the destruction of a generation.I think it's ludicrous for one to assert that an entire generation is being destroyed. :confused: Surely you know better than that. Nothing is going to stop millions of babies from being born.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You don't think animals have souls? I think they do.

No, not the "God breathed" kind that is granted exclusively to us humans (again...Catholic here). Does that mean I don't think that animals will go to heaven...nope! I firmly believe my dogs will be there waiting for me! :D :nod:

[GateandGarden]

[light hearted]With statements like that bud, it's kind of hard not to label you as a liberal. :D [/light hearted]I have met pro-choice Republicans before. That's not unheard of. There are also Democrats who definitely aren't liberals. Do the generalizations ever stop?

[dissention]

I have met pro-choice Republicans before. That's not unheard of.

Arlen Specter is pro-choice.

[Johnny Stew]

I think it's ludicrous for one to assert that an entire generation is being destroyed. :confused: Surely you know better than that. Nothing is going to stop millions of babies from being born.Exactly.

And then how many thousands of them will end up in orphanages, or neglected and/or abused because they were never wanted?

All of these people scream and yell, "DON'T KILL BABIES!!!" and then once the child is born, they basically say, "well, kid, you're on your own."

How compassionate.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I don't see how anyone knows that any creature has a soul.

I think you know you have a soul when you experience one of the emotions unique to human beings. Something as simple as being touched by the kindness of a stranger, crying the first time your heart is broken, when you hear that one song that touches you deep inside...a place you didn't even realize existed.

So, to answer your question, I don't think that a soul is something that you can define as real but rather something you have to feel for yourself. :shrug:

That was a lousy explanation...lol

[dissention]

All of these people scream and yell, "DON'T KILL BABIES!!!" and then once the child is born, they basically say, "well, kid, you're on your own."


That's their modus operandi. Make sure that the woman takes her baby to full term, gives birth, and then when she's a single mother trying to provide a life for her and her child, they say "Go f*ck yourself, you should have kept those knees locked" and proceed to cut funding for social programs that are in place to benefit them. I wonder how many single mothers with unwanted pregnancies Brandon has helped out financially.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

No. What does that have to do with it? Based on your logic, couldn't you say that Brandon knows all of us here on The Ledge are going to hell if we're not Christian? Because he knows that Jesus is the only way to heaven and so on and so forth? I'd say those things are along the same lines.

You can believe something but that doesn't mean you know it, like we know mathematical equations or Newton's laws.


Hey...BTW...I don't believe that! :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

I think you know you have a soul when you experience one of the emotions unique to human beings. Something as simple as being touched by the kindness of a stranger, crying the first time your heart is broken, when you hear that one song that touches you deep inside...a place you didn't even realize existed.

So, to answer your question, I don't think that a soul is something that you can define as real but rather something you have to feel for yourself. :shrug:

That was a lousy explanation...lolAnd a scientist can argue that all the things you've described there are merely the results of chemical reactions in your brain.

[Johnny Stew]

No, not the "God breathed" kind that is granted exclusively to us humans (again...Catholic here).I've always thought it extremely egotistical to think that any god would favor us above all else.

We're "all God's creatures," no? So why would he play favorites?

By the way, I was raised Catholic, too. The religion has its good qualities, but some of the principles that Catholicism is based upon are fundamentally flawed, IMO.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I think it's ludicrous for one to assert that an entire generation is being destroyed. :confused: Surely you know better than that. Nothing is going to stop millions of babies from being born.

But my point is...

what about those that didn't have a chance. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Hey...BTW...I don't believe that! :xoxo:A light in the darkness

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I have met pro-choice Republicans before. That's not unheard of. There are also Democrats who definitely aren't liberals. Do the generalizations ever stop?

I agree, not all democrats are liberal...and republicans are definitely not all conservatives.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Exactly.

And then how many thousands of them will end up in orphanages, or neglected and/or abused because they were never wanted?

All of these people scream and yell, "DON'T KILL BABIES!!!" and then once the child is born, they basically say, "well, kid, you're on your own."

How compassionate.

Now that is unfair. You can't generalize about how those who appose abortion don't care what happens to the child after birth. You know, adoption is a wonderful option. And I do personally care what happens.

[GateandGarden]

I agree, not all democrats are liberal...and republicans are definitely not all conservatives.Okay...well then why do you continue to make such generalizations? I can't count them all and I wouldn't do anyone any good to link to various posts of yours to prove a point. Enough people have done that already.

[dissention]

And I do personally care what happens.

Yeah? What do you do, then?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

And a scientist can argue that all the things you've described there are merely the results of chemical reactions in your brain.

And I would just shake my head. :shrug:

There's nothing you can say to that I suppose.

[estranged4life]

[light hearted]With statements like that bud, it's kind of hard not to label you as a liberal. :D [/light hearted]

not a liberal...I am just a person who decided FOR HIMSELF what is right and wrong, I rely on NO POLITICIANS EVER to lead me to believe what they want me to believe!!!!!!!! You cant categorize someone like me, I have a lump located 3 feet above my ass that I use to form my OWN beliefs and opinions, F**k all the world who believe they can force their beliefs on me.

Brian "I will be burning in hell when I die...But I did so on my own accord and on my own terms without catering to someone elses whims. I would rather die on my own terms than live on my knees to be accepted or to please others and do their bidding" j.

[GateandGarden]

And I would just shake my head. :shrug:

There's nothing you can say to that I suppose.And you can disbelieve it all you want but you can't disprove it.

[Serrart]

No, not the "God breathed" kind that is granted exclusively to us humans (again...Catholic here).

Well, in Rome there's a church, Sant'Antonio Abate all'Esquilino, where animals can be always brought in and every year there's the Blessing of the animals, an important ceremony with a very long tradition. Besides, ever heard of St. Francis of Assisi? ;)

Romy

[Brwn_eyes0511]

A light in the darkness

I thought I had made that clear before.

God is a mercy seat...we have no comprehension of his compassion.

"Everybody's got a story, and the truth of the matter is regardless of what somebody's life appears to be, nobody really knows what it's like except for the people living it. And that's why we have to live with so much mercy toward each other. Everybody's got an opinion just like everybody was born with a belly button...but life is just tough sometimes!" - AMY GRANT

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Okay...well then why do you continue to make such generalizations? I can't count them all and I wouldn't do anyone any good to link to various posts of yours to prove a point. Enough people have done that already.

When I say LIBERAL I am talking not about ALL democrats but about LIBERALS.

[GateandGarden]

I thought I had made that clear before.

God is a mercy seat...we have no comprehension of his compassion.

"Everybody's got a story, and the truth of the matter is regardless of what somebody's life appears to be, nobody really knows what it's like except for the people living it. And that's why we have to live with so much mercy toward each other. Everybody's got an opinion just like everybody was born with a belly button...but life is just tough sometimes!" - AMY GRANTWell, you may have made it clear before and I wasn't present often enough on the board to see where you said it. Until yesterday, I hadn't been posting as much as I like to.

[GateandGarden]

When I say LIBERAL I am talking not about ALL democrats but about LIBERALS.And so my question still stands.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yeah? What do you do, then?

I support faith-based organizations (with money...which I'm not saying so that I can "feel good about myself") that do some truly great things.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

And you can disbelieve it all you want but you can't disprove it.

With the simple gifts in life everyday...

I think it can be disproven.

[sparky]

And I agree with you on that. But I think that it is "reasonable" to not want to see the destruction of a generation.


Abortion sickens me, but I would love to see the next generation's numbers drastically reduced. Preferably by people being responsible for their reproductive organs. Yeah, that's gonna happen. :lol:

Last time I checked, we didn't need any more people.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, in Rome there's a church, Sant'Antonio Abate all'Esquilino, where animals can be always brought in and every year there's the Blessing of the animals, an important ceremony with a very long tradition. Besides, ever heard of St. Francis of Assisi? ;)

Romy

Yes I have. And I bring my animals to my church once a year for the blessing of the animals! :nod:

[GateandGarden]

With the simple gifts in life everyday...

I think it can be disproven."...the simple gifts in life everyday" is a very subjective thing, anyway. Not to mention all the people who one can say aren't receiving any "simple gifts" at all. Besides, it's "every day." That is a pet peeve of English majors.

That also wouldn't be disproving it scientifically by any stretch of the imagination, especially with such subjectivity.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

"...the simple gifts in life everyday" is a very subjective thing, anyway. Not to mention all the people who one can say aren't receiving any "simple gifts" at all. Besides, it's "every day." That is a pet peeve of English majors.

That also wouldn't be disproving it scientifically by any stretch of the imagination, especially with such subjectivity.


Well I wasn't speaking from a scientific standpoint - I was speaking of one from faith.

The moment I wake up every day is one of the treasured simple things I thank God for.

[GateandGarden]

Well I wasn't speaking from a scientific standpoint - I was speaking of one from faith.:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: Faith isn't something that can proven. We've been through this and you agreed to what was basically the same point earlier.

[WildInTheWind]

That's their modus operandi. Make sure that the woman takes her baby to full term, gives birth, and then when she's a single mother trying to provide a life for her and her child, they say "Go f*ck yourself, you should have kept those knees locked" and proceed to cut funding for social programs that are in place to benefit them. I wonder how many single mothers with unwanted pregnancies Brandon has helped out financially.

they sure as hell wouldn't give me any help.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: Faith isn't something that can proven. We've been through this and you agreed to what was basically the same point earlier.

Oh, were we still having a political debate? I'm sorry...I was still speaking about my faith. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Oh, were we still having a political debate? I'm sorry...I was still speaking about my faith. :shrug:Not politics, just facts.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Not politics, just facts.

About what? I'm really sorry...I have gotten so off topic. :o

[strandinthewind]

they sure as hell wouldn't give me any help.


That's because you, as a silly woman who is unable to balance her checkbook, deceived the man who impregnated you, are a whore damned to hell for conceiving out of wedlock no matter how it happened, and you should have a man to guide your life because those Stepford pills get in the way :rolleyes:

They make me sick.

[GateandGarden]

About what? I'm really sorry...I have gotten so off topic. :oI was just trying to say that it is not known as factual that any creature has a soul. You said that people know they have souls when they experience deep emotions that are thought to be unique to mankind. I said that a scientist can argue that those are just chemical reactions in a person's brain. You said that you don't believe that, basically. I don't either, but those are just beliefs and we can't use them to disprove the hypothetical scientist's claims.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That's because you, as a silly woman who is unable to balance her checkbook, deceived the man who impregnated you, are a whore damned to hell for conceiving out of wedlock no matter how it happened, and you should have a man to guide your life because those Stepford pills get in the way :rolleyes:

They make me sick.

Glad to see you have eaten your crazy flakes today son. You are making so many inane statements... :rolleyes:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I was just trying to say that it is not known as factual that any creature has a soul. You said that people know they have souls when they experience deep emotions that are thought to be unique to mankind. I said that a scientist can argue that those are just chemical reactions in a person's brain. You said that you don't believe that, basically. I don't either, but those are just beliefs and we can't use them to disprove the hypothetical scientist's claims.

Science really grates on my nerves sometimes. So pompous they are! :nod: :lol:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Hillary,

So just read your xanga post! I got to take up some of your space...that's kind of sweet...even though it wasn't a "warm love fest". Just SO you know...no hard feelings...ever! :D

[GateandGarden]

Hillary,

So just read your xanga post! I got to take up some of your space...that's kind of sweet...even though it wasn't a "warm love fest". Just SO you know...no hard feelings...ever! :DIt's hard not to have them.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It's hard not to have them.

Well I guess all aren't like me. I usually have pretty thick skin...and I really separate my personal life from my political discussions...I have many liberal friends actually.

[GateandGarden]

Well I guess all aren't like me. I usually have pretty thick skin...and I really separate my personal life from my political discussions...I have many liberal friends actually.But politics can be discussed without personal attacks.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

But politics can be discussed without personal attacks.

There weren’t any personal attacks...not from me.

If I'm not mistaken I was called an asshole and an idiot by specific ledgies (and I don't think they were punished...BUT anyway...).

When I responded to Josh's "Who likes abortions?" post...it was SUPPOSED to be sort of a joke. I had thought that most everyone here gets my crude sense of humor by now...but I guess not! I didn't bring this up earlier because I knew some would have thrown it in my face as "me taking it back and playing a martyr”, which I'm not because I'm not going to apologize for my humor. I'm really going to have to start using my little [humor] or [sarcastic] brackets from now on! Now some of these other blanket statements that I have read around here are NOT intended with any kind of humor, like how all abortion opponents do not care about the mother or the child and that we are all "a$$holes".

[sara1998]

Glad to see you have eaten your crazy flakes today son. You are making so many inane statements... :rolleyes:
Whats a matter? Someone hit the nail on the head?

[GypsySorcerer]

There weren’t any personal attacks...not from me.

If I'm not mistaken I was called an asshole and an idiot by specific ledgies (and I don't think they were punished...BUT anyway...).

When I responded to Josh's "Who likes abortions?" post...it was SUPPOSED to be sort of a joke. I had thought that most everyone here gets my crude sense of humor by now...but I guess not! I didn't bring this up earlier because I knew some would have thrown it in my face as "me taking it back and playing a martyr”, which I'm not because I'm not going to apologize for my humor. I'm really going to have to start using my little [humor] or [sarcastic] brackets from now on! Now some of these other blanket statements that I have read around here are NOT intended with any kind of humor, like how all abortion opponents do not care about the mother or the child and that we are all "a$$holes".

Just a tip - humor isn't appropriate when discussing abortions.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Whats a matter? Someone hit the nail on the head?

Not at all. I just had to point out the insano statements...
:nod:

[strandinthewind]

Whats a matter? Someone hit the nail on the head?


Oh now be fair - I was just quoting his exact words :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

Also, be careful when "attacking" Brown Eyes as he will then rush to play the whole I am an innocent victim - I am just posting my opinion in a nice manner - why is everyone being mean to me card - as he did in post number 197 :rolleyes:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Just a tip - humor isn't appropriate when discussing abortions.

Without making the subject seem trivial…at the expense of a "liberal joke"...I thought so! :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oh now be fair - I was just quoting his exact words :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

Also, be careful when "attacking" Brown Eyes as he will then rush to play the whole I am an innocent victim - why is everyone being mean to me card - as he did in post number :rolleyes:

Trust me sonny...I am not a victim and will never play it that way. I stand behind all of my statements. Only clarify what needs to be clarified! :nod:

Why am I even responding to you...you are the only ledgie that I shouldn't be responding to! And to think I once thought of you as the most open minded! :lol:

[sara1998]

Oh now be fair - I was just quoting his exact words :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

Also, be careful when "attacking" Brown Eyes as he will then rush to play the whole I am an innocent victim - I am just posting my opinion in a nice manner - why is everyone being mean to me card - as he did in post number 197 :rolleyes:
So I've noticed. And you know how I don't get all political and stuff. This one I can't pass up, though!! Anyone who is holier-than-thou gets on my last nerve.

As my 6 year old would say..."oh, gimme a break already!"

[Brwn_eyes0511]

So I've noticed. And you know how I don't get all political and stuff. This one I can't pass up, though!! Anyone who is holier-than-thou gets on my last nerve.

As my 6 year old would say..."oh, gimme a break already!"

Yea what your 6 year old said....give me a break.

I have never claimed to be holier-than-thou...but I have said this before...never again! :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

So I've noticed. And you know how I don't get all political and stuff. This one I can't pass up, though!! Anyone who is holier-than-thou gets on my last nerve.

As my 6 year old would say..."oh, gimme a break already!"

Yes my dear - political conv. are best with you whilst pounding a large frozen drink at the bar of a swanky steakhouse La Nicks frequented :laugh:

Unsurprisingly, neither of us played the victim :laugh: :rolleyes:

[sara1998]

Yea what your 6 year old said....give me a break.

I have never claimed to be holier-than-thou...but I have said this before...never again! :rolleyes:
It's not a claim, it's a vibe you give off.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It's not a claim, it's a vibe you give off.

Well I suggest you check your vibe-o-meter once more! :nod:

[sara1998]

Yes my dear - political conv. are best with you whilst pounding a large frozen drink at the bar of a swanky steakhouse La Nicks frequented :laugh:

Unsurprisingly, neither of us played the victim :laugh: :rolleyes:
:D :xoxo:

[SuzeQuze]

Yea what your 6 year old said....give me a break.

I have never claimed to be holier-than-thou...but I have said this before...never again! :rolleyes:

Not in so many words but you write with a self-righteous tone quite often.

[skcin]

I'm not allowed to go pick my brother up from V-Basketball practice...? :laugh:


Of course you are, but I checked your profile yesterday to see if you were still on & it said at that time you were looking at this thread. :shrug: Therefore, I assumed you were still here. I guess you didn't log off, or someone was reading the thread from your computer while you were gone.

[chiliD]

If I'm not mistaken I was called an asshole


If the shoe fits...

[SteveMacD]

Just a tip - humor isn't appropriate when discussing abortions.
I can't totally agree on this. Sam Kinison had at least one good one.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

If the shoe fits...

Well if this is true then I should be able to get away with A LOT! :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Of course you are, but I checked your profile yesterday to see if you were still on & it said at that time you were looking at this thread. :shrug: Therefore, I assumed you were still here. I guess you didn't log off, or someone was reading the thread from your computer while you were gone.

Oh...haha! Yea, I'm sorry about that. I didn't log off...I just left explorer up and running...I have wireless so I am on 24/7.

[jadegypsy]

Regardless of that, are you denying that innocent souls are being killed by abortion?

I guess it all dempends on when one feels a "soul" is made, since I don't consider something alive until it can breath on its own, then abortion doesn'tcome off to me as someone "murdering" a child. And I'm rather loath to have that decision made for me, by people who wouldn't even know me or ever have to face that kind of decision. I am also loath to make that specific decision for anyone else...It is not my life...

As for thousands dying, have you ever seen what occurrs in Africa, talk about thousands of kids who are unquestionably alive dying, perhaps if ppl put as much energy as they do into the abortion argument towards relieving some of the worlds poverty then some changes might occur.

As for it becoming illegal, if it does all that will happen is that abortions will once again become back alley type things, terrible for womens health, close your eyes all you want, but my mother lived in the sixties and had friends who had to resort to this type of thing, and it was horrifying...

[sparky]

I guess it all dempends on when one feels a "soul" is made, since I don't consider something alive until it can breath on its own, then abortion doesn'tcome off to me as someone "murdering" a child. And I'm rather loath to have that decision made for me, by people who wouldn't even know me or ever have to face that kind of decision. I am also loath to make that specific decision for anyone else...It is not my life...

As for thousands dying, have you ever seen what occurrs in Africa, talk about thousands of kids who are unquestionably alive dying, perhaps if ppl put as much energy as they do into the abortion argument towards relieving some of the worlds poverty then some changes might occur.

As for it becoming illegal, if it does all that will happen is that abortions will once again become back alley type things, terrible for womens health, close your eyes all you want, but my mother lived in the sixties and had friends who had to resort to this type of thing, and it was horrifying...


Oh, but don't you know ? If we make it against the law no one will do it! It is just like abstinence. Just tell those kids to STOP HAVING SEX. They Will ! And Just Say No, my friend. That whole campaign completely stopped drug use. I mean, I haven't heard of a single problem about crystal meth, have you ? We just have to make a moral, national stand against these things, and people will magically stop ! Where have you been, anyway ? Don't you read the national or international news?

[seeker007nmss]

<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/cat-1.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[strandinthewind]

Oh, but don't you know ? If we make it against the law no one will do it! It is just like abstinence. Just tell those kids to STOP HAVING SEX. They Will ! And Just Say No, my friend. That whole campaign completely stopped drug use. I mean, I haven't heard of a single problem about crystal meth, have you ? We just have to make a moral, national stand against these things, and people will magically stop ! Where have you been, anyway ? Don't you read the national or international news?

Amen!!!!!!!!!

This goes to my theory that people just cannot stand others being too wild or too free - it is a form of jealousy IMO.

I think many people want others to conform to what they think is the way other people should live even though the vast majority of the people wanting others to conform were total sluts in their youth. This kind of Peyton Place morality is assinine. I mean if some 20 year old college student wants to bang five guys or girls a night, what the hell do I care as long as he or she is responsible about it and even if he or she is not - it is his or her life to piss away if he or she wants to. But, people will never see it that way and want instead to enforce their morality on him or her. Interestingly, that morality is mostly enforced on females.

[SuzeQuze]

Amen!!!!!!!!!

This goes to my theory that people just cannot stand others being too wild or too free - it is a form of jealousy IMO.

I think many people want others to conform to what they think is the way other people should live even though the vast majority of the people wanting others to conform were total sluts in their youth. This kind of Peyton Place morality is assinine. I mean if some 20 year old college student wants to bang five guys or girls a night, what the hell do I care as long as he or she is responsible about it and even if he or she is not - it is his or her life to piss away if he or she wants to. But, people will never see it that way and want instead to enforce their morality on him or her. Interestingly, that morality is mostly enforced on females.

What you and sparky said! I told my dad about the danger of a conservative court rolling back Roe and he said, "Why so women can resort to coat hangers again?" He was pissed. I love my Dad!

People who try to force this morality on others are repressed and usually something comes out behind closed doors. A certain broadcaster and suggestions involving a loofah come to mind. :laugh: Now, I gotta go find someone to... just kidding. ;)