To those in Katrina's path...GET OUT! (Cat. 5 HURRICANE!!!!)

[greatdarkwing]

OK Guys...I just woke up 10 minutes ago, turned on the news and saw Katrina is now a cat. 5 hurricane.

MY ADVICE IS TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!

I was 7 years old when Andrew, a category 5 hurricane, blew through Miami and it is still an image that haunts me. Storms this big are not a joke. They will kill. You will not have power or weeks. You will be flooded for weeks. Please listen to my honest advice and get out.....I'll never forget the sound of a frieght train outside my window for 12 hours that night...and I was only 7 years old....and to this very day I can honestly say it was one of the scariest moments in my life.

Please take my advice and run.....I can not stress this enough....a category 5 DESTROYS. Its not a question of if, but when t will destroy.

Hopefully this thread can convince some of you to leave....

~Alex

[sara1998]

I wasen't in Andrew, but I had lots of family living in Miami when it hit, including a then 3 month old baby cousin who was born 3 months early. They fled, becasue they had no choice, and they did it at the last minute. There were no hotel rooms available up state, or even in southern Georgia, for that matter. When they did find somewhere to stay, there was no electricity, no running water, and the baby needed all this for his heart monitors, and, of coarse, formula. What a nightmare. I'll never forget crying becasue we didn't talk to them for about 3 weeks, and all we could do is let our imagination get to us, and wonder if they were alive or dead.

I'll never forget the first time I visited Miami afterwords, either... When I saw Homestead, I was just bawling. A year later it still looked like a war zone.

[greatdarkwing]

I wasen't in Andrew, but I had lots of family living in Miami when it hit, including a then 3 month old baby cousin who was born 3 months early. They fled, becasue they had no choice, and they did it at the last minute. There were no hotel rooms available up state, or even in southern Georgia, for that matter. When they did find somewhere to stay, there was no electricity, no running water, and the baby needed all this for his heart monitors, and, of coarse, formula. What a nightmare. I'll never forget crying becasue we didn't talk to them for about 3 weeks, and all we could do is let our imagination get to us, and wonder if they were alive or dead.

I'll never forget the first time I visited Miami afterwords, either... When I saw Homestead, I was just bawling. A year later it still looked like a war zone.

Alot of families couldn't reach loved ones after Andrew...

Katrina will probably change the New Orleans landscape for time to come. Homestead was never the same after Andrew

[sara1998]

I was 7 years old when Andrew, a category 5 hurricane, blew through Miami
~Alex
This makes me feel old. I was 15 when it hit. :lol:

[sara1998]

Isn't New Orleans like a huge bowl? If they were hit with a tsunami, or massive amounts of rain, wouldn't it fill up just like a bowl??

[GateandGarden]

Ugh! F*ck this thing! It's really pissing me off. If the French Quarter is destroyed then we will lose so much!!! There is SO MUCH history there! There is so much culture there! There is an aquarium and I worry about those fish. Also, I worry about the animals at the zoo. Not to mention that they can't possibly get all the people out, despite the fact that they have declared a mandatory evacuation! I am really afraid that this is going to be horrible. We haven't seen anything like this. I don't live in New Orleans but I love it SO MUCH and this is truly scary. If New Orleans changes then the whole face of LA changes. New Orleans is our pride and joy, from my point of view.

And stupid Governor Blanco is on CNN talking about how we need to pray. They even quoted her. Leave it to our politicians to make us all look like hicks, too. My eyes were rolling around so much when she said that. "Pray strongly," she said. The only thing that CNN didn't do was include the "strongly" part when they quoted her. Not only are we screwed, the whole country gets to be reminded how backwards we are.

[GateandGarden]

Isn't New Orleans like a huge bowl? If they were hit with a tsunami, or massive amounts of rain, wouldn't it fill up just like a bowl??It pretty much is. They predict that it'll fill up with about 10 feet of water.

[GODDESS6]

this is so sad, i hope everyone flees, i hate to see this kind of destruction, entire towns just gone, i pray the loss of life is minimal~

[estranged4life]

the Weather Channel the winds on Katrina are now at 175MPH, Stronger than Hurricane Andrew.

[eclipse]

I am safe up here in New Hampshire...but I am watching this unbelievably strong monster continuing on it's path..
Hillary....I hope where you are in LA is safe.! :nod:

To all my other pals on the Ledge, take it from a gal whose family lost our entire home on the ocean in the Hurricane of 1938. I wasn't around then (obviously) but my Dad said it was a nightmareof unbelivable proportions.
So please don't try to be brave or macho, or even "think" you can out smart Mother Nature...You cannot.
PLEASE, PLEASE GET OUT OF HER WAY, TAKE YOUR CHILDREN, PETS AND JUST GO

with my warmest wishes for safe keeping
~~eclipse~~

[greatdarkwing]

the Weather Channel the winds on Katrina are now at 175MPH, Stronger than Hurricane Andrew.

Thats scary...

[AliceLover]

Yikes! I hope everyone makes it out safe!!!!

[gldstwmn]

I couldn't believe it when I woke up this morning and saw this had turned to a Cat 5 from a Cat 3 overnight. It just makes me want to cry. Hopefully most of the city has been evacuated. It appears that this storm will make a direct hit on New Orleans. :distress:

[GateandGarden]

...
Hillary....I hope where you are in LA is safe.! :nod:

with my warmest wishes for safe keeping
~~eclipse~~
Thank you, Anna. :xoxo: I'm safe. :)

I'm so sorry about your family losing their house in '38. I have no idea what that's like. :distress:

It appears that this storm will make a direct hit on New Orleans.I know I said it already, but I'm so scared for the city. :(

[gldstwmn]

And stupid Governor Blanco is on CNN talking about how we need to pray.

At this point, I don't think it could hurt. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

To all my other pals on the Ledge, take it from a gal whose family lost our entire home on the ocean in the Hurricane of 1938. I wasn't around then (obviously) but my Dad said it was a nightmareof unbelivable proportions.


My parents lived through '38. My mother talked about the strom her whole life as the most terrifying storm she had ever lived through.

[GypsySorcerer]

And stupid Governor Blanco is on CNN talking about how we need to pray. They even quoted her. Leave it to our politicians to make us all look like hicks, too. My eyes were rolling around so much when she said that. "Pray strongly," she said. The only thing that CNN didn't do was include the "strongly" part when they quoted her. Not only are we screwed, the whole country gets to be reminded how backwards we are.

Yeah. Because everyone who prays is a backwards hick.

[WELSH WITCH]

I've just seen something about the storm on CNN, it looks really scary.
Take care everyone and be safe.

[DeeGeMe]

Hurricane Hugo survivor here. Hugo was "only" a 4, with winds of about 140 miles per hour at landfall, near Charleston, SC. It then proceeded to march up through the center of the state, and left virtually no area of the state untouched. We didn't have power for days afterwards, and we were some of the luckier ones. The entire power grid had to be more or less rebuilt and some were without power or running water for weeks.

Katrina is both a very intense storm (worse than Andrew), it's also a HUGE storm in terms of the real estate it's covering--more like Hugo in that regard. And let me remind you what that means exactly-with Hugo, 12 hours after it made its initial landfall, it hit Charlotte, NC with 100 mile per hour winds, and Charlotte is 175 miles away from Charleston.

If I could say one thing to the people in the path of this monster-it would be this: GET OUT NOW.

I lived 70 miles inland, and about 70 miles up from the initial landfall of Hugo and there were trees downed everywhere afterwards. Tornadoes struck everywhere, all over the state. It was estimated later than 60-80% of the trees in the state suffered some type of damage. Economically, it was catastropic. Psychologically? It was the scariest night of my life and I do NOT scare easily.

[gldstwmn]

I only had to live through one hurricane and that was hurricane Belle in 1976, a category 1. We got more wind than anything else. I think the winds reached about 75 mph. It hit us in the middle of the night. I remember I slept in the bed with my mom that night and waking up to the sound of things flying past the window. I don't think she was sleeping at all though.

[GateandGarden]

Yeah. Because everyone who prays is a backwards hick.I thought you would know that that isn't what I mean. I think she's representing us as a state and by taking it into a public forum she's doing something inappropriate, much like praying in public schools and so on.

[GateandGarden]

At this point, I don't think it could hurt. :shrug:Agreed. But that wasn't my point. I just think it's inappropriate for her to say that.

[Nixxxed]

Okay - long, rambling post alert...

I've been awake all night, sick to my stomach about this. I was watching The Weather Channel about 1:30 AM, when the advisory came in that the storm had jumped from 110 mph to 145 - the weather guy looked like he was going to faint.

About New Orleans - most of the downtown section of the city is about 10 feet below sea level, so with a 25-foot storm surge, it could actually be under 35 feet of water. That's basically 4 stories. They're not sure the levees that separate the city from the Miss River and Lake Ponchartrain will hold at all. And that's just the storm surge - if they get 15 inches of rain on top of that like this same storm dumped on certain sections of Florida...

But Hillary, I totally agree about the history and culture that will be lost. I LOVE New Orleans - the French Quarter, Garden District, St. Charles Streetcar, Jackson Square, the new Warehouse District that has been built. I was just there in May, and I couldn't believe all the improvements they had done to Canal Street.

I went through Hurricane Alicia in 1983, and she was barely a Cat 2 storm. Just like others have said, it was 18 hours of pure terror. And that's after the 12-hour leadup of random rain bands and wind.

And the aftermath: the lack of power, water, sewage, city services are one thing. We were without power after Alicia for 2-1/2 weeks, and without phone service for almost a month. But we're also talking about the South in summer. Think swarms of mosquitoes, displaced fire ants, poisonous snakes, rats and mice, cockroaches, and biting flies feasting on all the trash and sewage backup.

And of course, not to belittle the impact this will have on Biloxi, MS, or Mobile, AL, or any of the many towns between. And the fact that a huge gasoline refining facility had to be closed yesterday (and may be destroyed).

And finally, not to shift the thread, but they just aired a taped audio statement from the President about the situation, in which he talked about ...
the Iraqi Constitution and its importance and impacts on our country for 5 minutes. And then at the end quickly said Katrina was a very bad situation. :mad:

[eclipse]

:xoxo: When my Dad told this story, his eyes always filled with tears-Back then, they had no radar-no warning. He was in school and walking home from classes and saw the church steeple fly away...He rushed to get to the beach. He met my Grandmother coming up the dirt road. "This isn't a "nor'easter, like we first thoght...the baraometer is too low and the tide is coming in too fast." (Something is seriously wrong! Our house was about 1 mile down a dirt road, right on the ocean --maybe 40 feet from the high tide mark). "We have to leave" she told him. And they did...
Anyway, my Dad says, in those years , you could not find a rock on the beach-it was all sand-powderey, sugar sand--, in fact, my Gradmother used to go into town to get rocks to outline her garden.
Lots of sand dunes and just very serene. etc. Beach roses- beautiful !!

They left the ocean and I think went as far north as Worcester? After 2 days they went "home"-
All the sand dunes were gone- All the houses were gone- the beach was completely covered with rocks- small and medium sized rocks, which remained there until I would guess maybe about 10 years ago- Now the sand is winnning again and coming back!

What remained?, Our house, which consisted of about 6 bricks from the fireplace, nothing else- all blown away- as was every other house on that stretch of ocean. My Dad says the only thing he really remembers from after the storm are rocks and seaweed- We never had rocks on the shore or beach and there wasn't any seaweed- For years there were tons of varieties of seaweed and rocks...As a child I remember putting on flip-flaps to get to the water because the rocks hurt my feet. It was a devestating dtorm and back then they didn't even name them as Hurricane's - It is known as just the storm of '38. Many (I think around 3000 or 4500 people died) luckily no one in our family or close friend were in those numbers.

The good news is...we still have a small cottage there- There is no electricity- no water (we have a pump) and we use an outhouse for the obvious reason. (I know Dissention will be mortified-but hey , it's reality )
We have kerosene laterns, gas stove, and bring in water to drink (Remember this is 50 years + later)
We can't purchase insurance on the property or cottage (The insurance companies get a big laugh out of that request...)
So it remains, a house/cottage built by my Dad, My uncle and my brothers. So far it has lasted through each storm that has assulted it in the last maybe 40 years. Each summer we go and see the damage the winter has brought. Sometimnes it is nothing- sometimes it is substantial, but it is still standing ;)

It is my favorite place on earth...
My husband and I make love there-
My Dad's ashes are dispersed there-
My dog loves to play in the surf there-
It is truly for me, a magical and special place, but I still look at the barometer on the wall as soon as I walk in- and listen to the wind -and watch the water because.....you never know when it will happen again.............

The moral of my story is: BE SMART IN LA and MI !! AGAIN-Please don't stay for the show, you may not be around to give a review....GET OUT- STAY SAFE
My thoughts and blessings are with everyone dealing with this nightmare-just keep in mind, in a few days...you can go back and see what is left, but plan on nothing being the same- because it will not be the same.
And you will deal with it at that time. For now- GO!!!!!
~~eclipse~~

[gldstwmn]

Agreed. But that wasn't my point. I just think it's inappropriate for her to say that.
In this situation I don't think it is. :shrug: People of all denominations pray. If you're an atheist, then you don't.

[gldstwmn]

And finally, not to shift the thread, but they just aired a taped audio statement from the President about the situation, in which he talked about ...
the Iraqi Constitution and its importance and impacts on our country for 5 minutes. And then at the end quickly said Katrina was a very bad situation. :mad:

Jesus H. Christ. I wanted to catch his speech but was on the phone. :distress: At least he's already declared a state of emergency. This whole situation is absolutely heartbreaking.

[Janet]

Oh my God. I looked at the satellite yesterday and it looked unorganized but now it's like this perfect looking storm.

It's the 4th strongest atlantic storm and the pressure is one of the lowest recorded.

Please, everyone be careful!!!!!!!

[GypsySorcerer]

I thought you would know that that isn't what I mean. I think she's representing us as a state and by taking it into a public forum she's doing something inappropriate, much like praying in public schools and so on.
I don't think in this context referring to prayer necessarily violates separation of church and state. Prayer means different things to different people. For some, it's just holding a good thought. Much like utterances of "Thank God" and "I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers," I think what she said seems more like a common expression.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5583239.html

New Orleans evacuated as Hurricane Katrina bears down

NEW ORLEANS — Monstrous Hurricane Katrina barreled toward the Big Easy today with 175-mph wind and a threat of a 28-foot storm surge, forcing a mandatory evacuation, a last-ditch Superdome shelter and prayers for those left to face the doomsday scenario this below-sea-level city has long dreaded.

"Have God on your side, definitely have God on your side,'' Nancy Noble said as she sat with her puppy and three friends in six lanes of one-way traffic on gridlocked Interstate 10. "It's very frightening.''

Katrina intensified into a Category 5 giant over the warm water of the Gulf of Mexico on a path to come ashore early Monday in the heart of New Orleans. That would make it the city's first direct hit in 40 years and the most powerful storm ever to slam the city.

The Superdome was named a place of refuge.Cheryl GerberAssociated Press"I'm really scared,'' resident Linda Young said as she fill her gas tank. "I've been through hurricanes, but this one scares me. I think everybody needs to get out.''

Rain began falling on southeastern Louisiana by midday today, the first hints of a storm with a potential surge of 18 to 28 feet, topped with even higher waves, tornadoes and as much as 15 inches of rain.

"We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared,'' Mayor Ray Nagin said in ordering the mandatory evacuation for his city of 485,000 people, surrounded by suburbs of a million more. "The storm surge will most likely topple our levee system.''

Preparing sandbagsDavid J. PhillipAssociated PressConceding that as many as 100,000 inner-city residents didn't have the means to leave and an untold number of tourists were stranded by the closing of the airport, the city arranged buses to take people to 10 last-resort shelters, including the Superdome

snip

Despite the dire predictions, a group of residents in a poor neighborhood of central New Orleans sat on a porch with no car, no way out and, surprisingly, no fear.

"We're not evacuating,'' said 57-year-old Julie Paul. "None of us have any place to go. We're counting on the Superdome. That's our lifesaver.''

The Superdome, the 70,000-seat home of football's Saints and the New Year's Sugar Bowl, opened at daybreak today, giving first priority to frail, elderly people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks. They were told to bring enough food, water and medicine to last up to five days.

Click the link for the full article.

[dissention]

I don't think in this context referring to prayer necessarily violates separation of church and state. Prayer means different things to different people. For some, it's just holding a good thought. Much like utterances of "Thank God" and "I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers," I think what she said seems more like a common expression.

I agree. Praying doesn't necessarily involve God, especially in the context she probably said it in. This isn't the same thing as the government putting the Ten Commandments in a courthouse or making my kid pray in homeroom.

[GateandGarden]

I agree. Praying doesn't necessarily involve God, especially in the context she probably said it in. This isn't the same thing as the government putting the Ten Commandments in a courthouse or making my kid pray in homeroom.I see the point you and Krista are making. I still think that even though it doesn't necessarily involve God, it is inevitably religious and the comment was obviously public. I can't understand why any of that has to be mentioned in a newscast. But it is far less serious than the Ten Commandments being displayed in a courthouse or someone being forced to (or even asked to) pray in homeroom. I have to give you that. But it pissed off both of my parents, and that really got me going. My dad is quite the conservative and he found it very inappropriate, so that signified something to me.

[Nixxxed]

Hillary, where in LA are you again? The lastest forecast says the storm may still be a Cat 2 even after it's a couple hundred miles inland. :distress:

I'm hoping you're on the west side of the state. :nod:

[Nixxxed]

OH JEEZ --

MSNBS just broke out the props to demonstrate the storm surge. The weather dude is raising himself to the ceiling on a mechanical sciccor-lift to show how deep the water will be. :rolleyes:

Of course, this is the network that had the plywood reconstruction of Saddam's "spider hole" and broadcast from inside it...

[GypsySorcerer]

I see the point you and Krista are making. I still think that even though it doesn't necessarily involve God, it is inevitably religious and the comment was obviously public. I can't understand why any of that has to be mentioned in a newscast. But it is far less serious than the Ten Commandments being displayed in a courthouse or someone being forced to (or even asked to) pray in homeroom. I have to give you that. But it pissed off both of my parents, and that really got me going. My dad is quite the conservative and he found it very inappropriate, so that signified something to me.

Her comment may not be "ideal," but I really don't see it as offensive at all. I think it was just a common reaction to an impending disaster. I also disagree that prayer is inevitably religious. People can pray to many gods/goddesses, the universe, the stars, whomever. Or it can be simply meditation. Prayer is spiritual, but not necessarily religious.

Anyway, it was the hick comment that got me, not your opinion.

[GateandGarden]

Hillary, where in LA are you again? The lastest forecast says the storm may still be a Cat 2 even after it's a couple hundred miles inland. :distress:

I'm hoping you're on the west side of the state. :nod:I'm safe. Thanks for your concern. :) :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Her comment may not be "ideal," but I really don't see it as offensive at all. I think it was just a common reaction to a impending disaster. I also disagree that prayer is inevitably religious. People can pray to many gods/goddesses, the universe, the stars, whomever. Or it can be simply meditation. Prayer is spiritual, but not necessarily religious.

Anyway, it was the hick comment that got me, not your opinion.About the first part...you're right.

About the second part...it just reminded me of the people I grew up with, the people who assumed that everyone wants to pray and there's something wrong with them if they don't. The people who have never been anywhere else or seen anything else and think that what they've seen is all there is to see and that everyone else has to agree, and of course adopt their opinions as well. But I know that that wasn't going through Blanco's head at all and there's a chance that she wouldn't have said it at all if she knew people would take it the way my family did. Part of this is the fact that I already really don't like Blanco at all. It's kind of like how some of us get really angry when Bush does something that isn't necessarily that bad, but coupled with other things he's already done, it's bad enough for us to get angry whereas the same action by someone else wouildn't be judged so harshly. Sorry for the sentence fragment and babbling.

[ontheEdgeof17]

They are saying more and more people are gathering in the French Quarter and partying. :shocked: WHY?!

[GateandGarden]

They are saying more and more people are gathering in the French Quarter and partying. :shocked: WHY?!I heard that, too. :distress: I really don't know why.

[Nixxxed]

They are saying more and more people are gathering in the French Quarter and partying. :shocked: WHY?!
LOL - I guess you might as well be drunk if you can't get outta the city.

[gldstwmn]

LOL - I guess you might as well be drunk if you can't get outta the city.

I guess you might as well be drunk if you're going to drown. :confused: I'm surprised the police are allowing this but they've probably got their hands full.

[Nixxxed]

NO NO NO :laugh:

There are a lot of tourists who got trapped in town, and are staying in high-rise hotels downtown. They've interviewed them via the phone all day on TV. They really don't have anything to do (as far as preparations, boarding up, etc.), and a few hours left before weather conditions really start to go downhill.

(Unfortunately for them, there have been reports that with Cat 5 winds, the integrity of the buildings they're staying in can't be guaranteed, so in the end, you may be right.)

[ontheEdgeof17]

NO NO NO :laugh:

There are a lot of tourists who got trapped in town, and are staying in high-rise hotels downtown. They've interviewed them via the phone all day on TV. They really don't have anything to do (as far as preparations, boarding up, etc.), and a few hours left before weather conditions really start to go downhill.



Yup. 100,000 people "stuck".

[GateandGarden]

Yup. 100,000 people "stuck".Yes, and I doubt the Superdome can hold everyone. And that's the only place I can think of that I feel certain would be able to keep people safe.

[gldstwmn]

Yes, and I doubt the Superdome can hold everyone. And that's the only place I can think of that I feel certain would be able to keep people safe.

Have you seen the line?:distress: 6000 members of the Louisiana National Guard are in Iraq.

[GateandGarden]

Have you seen the line?:distress: 6000 members of the Louisiana National Guard are in Iraq.Yeah, I saw many more people than I could count waiting in line to get in on TV. :(

[GypsySorcerer]

Have you seen the line?:distress: 6000 members of the Louisiana National Guard are in Iraq.

I just saw that too. Horrifying. :(

[LuckyCharms]

:distress: I wonder if there is more that can be done to get people out of there? I heard that for some folks it's an issue of not having a vehicle, why couldn't car dealerships start handing out keys or something?


Gateandgarden, you mentioned an aquarium? I just heard a quick mention about an outdoor aquarium and they stated that the birds had been shipped to Florida. A local hotel indoor pool is being converted to a place for the other animals to go.

[Nixxxed]

Yeah, I saw many more people than I could count waiting in line to get in on TV. :(
And the first heavy rain bands just hit NO. Why the hell won't they just let those people in? I saw some footage where the people were starting to get restless and starting to chant, "Let us in!"

What the hell? If they have to check everyone, they can surely do that in the lobby or playing field. It's not like they're gonna stay down there with the forecasted floods - they'll be moved to the higher levels.

Let them in!

[gldstwmn]

:distress: I wonder if there is more that can be done to get people out of there? I heard that for some folks it's an issue of not having a vehicle, why couldn't car dealerships start handing out keys or something?

How about using the buses to evacuate them? They could use school buses, I think. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

I just saw that too. Horrifying. :(

They are not providing food or water for anyone in there. You have to bring your own. :shocked: They don't even know if the structure can withstand it. It could very well become a tomb. :distress:

[gldstwmn]

http://abc26.trb.com/news/natguard08012005,0,4504131.story?coll=wgno-news-1

LA National Guard Wants Equipment to Come Back From Iraq

Yunji de Nies

August 1, 2005, 9:07 PM CDT

JACKSON BARRACKS -- When members of the Louisiana National Guard left for Iraq in October, they took a lot equipment with them. Dozens of high water vehicles, humvees, refuelers and generators are now abroad, and in the event of a major natural disaster that, could be a problem.

"The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," said Lt. Colonel Pete Schneider with the LA National Guard.

Col. Schneider says the state has enough equipment to get by, and if Louisiana were to get hit by a major hurricane, the neighboring states of Mississippi, Alabama and Florida have all agreed to help.

"As Governor Bush did for Ivan, after they were hit so many times, he just maxed all of his resources out, he reached out to Louisiana and we sent 200 national guardsmen to help support in recovery efforts," Col. Schneider said.

Members of the Houma-based 256th Infantry will be returning in October, but it could be much longer before the rest of their equipment comes home.

"You've got combatant commanders over there who need it they say they need it, they don't want to lose what they have, and we certainly understand that it's a matter it's a matter of us educating that combatant commander, we need it back here as well," Col. Schneider said.

And even if commanders in Iraq release the equipment, getting it home takes months.

"It's just the process of identifying which equipment we're bringing home, bringing it down to Kuwait, loading it on ships or aircraft however we're gonna get it back here and then either railing it in or trucking it in, so we're talking a significant amount of time before that equipment is back home," Schneider said.

[vermicious knid]

In recorded history, only three category five hurricanes have hit America. The last one was hurricane Andrew, but it hit less populated areas with trailer parks and stuff.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9106/andrew1992map9qm.png
In all, Hurricane Andrew caused some $26 billion in damage, more than any other hurricane in U.S. history. But it could have been worse. Though close, Andrew did not make a direct hit on Miami. Instead, its center came ashore 25 miles to the south. Given the Andrew's small size, its worst effects missed Miami, Miami Beach and other heavily populated cities just to the north.

"If Andrew were to hit a little farther north the next time, and goes across more populated areas of downtown Miami - the airport, the financial district - it would easily be three to four times the cost that we had in 1992," Mayfield says.
link (http://www.weather.com/newscenter/specialreports/hurricanes/vulnerablecities/miami.html)

If there were one city that did not need a direct hit by a hurricane, it's New Orleans.

[GateandGarden]

Gateandgarden, you mentioned an aquarium? I just heard a quick mention about an outdoor aquarium and they stated that the birds had been shipped to Florida. A local hotel indoor pool is being converted to a place for the other animals to go.Really? They must have been talking about the Aquarium of the Americas. That is very good news. Thank you!

[GypsySorcerer]

They are not providing food or water for anyone in there. You have to bring your own. :shocked: They don't even know if the structure can withstand it. It could very well become a tomb. :distress:

:distress: I'm so scared for them right now. There's already 12,000 people there, with buses more coming.

[Nixxxed]

They are not providing food or water for anyone in there. You have to bring your own. :shocked: They don't even know if the structure can withstand it. It could very well become a tomb. :distress:
And - it has no windows or skylights (or very very few of either). Can you imagine being inside that thing when the power finally goes out? I would hope they would have some kind of emergency lighting, but I fear only for Exit signs and stairwell lights and such.

[David]

If there were one city that did not need a direct hit by a hurricane, it's New Orleans.Is there any sort of high ground in New Orleans? Hills, for example? Anything over 50 feet above sea level?

Most of the people killed in hurricanes drown in the storm tide rather than the high winds. But Katrina's winds are so powerful now that they can easily launch airborne missiles out of just about anything: automobiles, pieces of construction, trees, etc.

It goes without saying that power lines are downed in storms like this, & that's deadly when you have so much of the area under water.

[David]

:distress: I'm so scared for them right now. There's already 12,000 people there, with buses more coming.I think being in that huge steel-reinforced concrete stadium (or whatever it is) is one of the safer places to be in the area, by far. I assume it's at least 25 feet above mean sea level?

The way to stack the odds in your favor in a powerful hurricane is to get as far as you can above sea level & the storm tide, & to get to reinforced shelter, & the stadium seems one of the best places to be if you're stuck in New Orleans.

[gldstwmn]

I think being in that huge steel-reinforced concrete stadium (or whatever it is) is one of the safer places to be in the area, by far. I assume it's at least 25 feet above mean sea level?

The way to stack the odds in your favor in a powerful hurricane is to get as far as you can above sea level & the storm tide, & to get to reinforced shelter, & the stadium seems one of the best places to be if you're stuck in New Orleans.

I hope you're right.

[Mad4stevie]

My boyfriend just finished up his dissertation for his Ph.D. in geography and his topic was crisis management and hurricanes. He was in New Orleans last fall at a conference about this very thing.

According to what he has studied, what is coming is the WORST POSSIBLE scenario for New Orleans. He told me that there were so few places to which people could escape (higher ground), and that the amount of homeless people in the city alone would result in tens of thousands of deaths from drowning.

It creeps me out that all the crisis planning and information he received last fall at his conference is exactly what is happening. Many people are going to be lost . . .

Gusts are now at 202 mph.

Check out www.noaa.gov for good hurricane info.

Link for direct info on Katrina:

Hurricane Katrina (http://www.stormtracker.noaa.gov/stormtracker-katrina.htm)

[markolas]

Is there any sort of high ground in New Orleans? Hills, for example? Anything over 50 feet above sea level?

BWAHAHAHAHA! Hills? Are you kidding me? :laugh:

[markolas]

I was in New Orleans in March. Glad I got to see the French Quarter while it was still there. :distress:

[Nixxxed]

Oh great - now the oil markets are freaking out. Oil's up past $70/gallon in the first 45 minutes of the trading session. (I guess the East Asian markets are open now?)

[gldstwmn]

Oh great - now the oil markets are freaking out. Oil's up past $70/gallon in the first 45 minutes of the trading session. (I guess the East Asian markets are open now?)

Yep. :nod:

[Mad4stevie]

They are also talking about how the new buildings construction code was only made to sustain 150 mph winds. :eek:

In Biloxi, approx. 40% of people are refusing to leave and are disregarding the evacuation order. :(

I wish I could understand what the hell is wrong with someone who decides to "ride it out". I would have left, like, last week. :nod: This kind of thing scares the sh*t out of me.

[markolas]

Oh great - now the oil markets are freaking out. Oil's up past $70/gallon in the first 45 minutes of the trading session. (I guess the East Asian markets are open now?)

Isn't there a gasoline refinery in Mississippi that's in danger?

[gldstwmn]

Isn't there a gasoline refinery in Mississippi that's in danger?

I think there are more than one.

[Nixxxed]

I was in New Orleans in March. Glad I got to see the French Quarter while it was still there. :distress:
I was there in early May, on a Monday night after an obviously very busy weekend on the quarter. The whole place smelled like vomit and trash. I remember joking to my friends that the city needed a good hard rain to wash it clean. I'm kinda feeling bad for saying that now...

[Mad4stevie]

I was there in early May, on a Monday night after an obviously very busy weekend on the quarter. The whole place smelled like vomit and trash. I remember joking to my friends that the city needed a good hard rain to wash it clean. I'm kinda feeling bad for saying that now...

There are also alot of homeless people there. They will never be able to get out in time and have no where to go.

[GateandGarden]

I was in New Orleans in March. Glad I got to see the French Quarter while it was still there. :distress:Last time I was there was July. I too am really glad that I got to see it like I'm sure it won't be after tomorrow. I just hope that somehow, it winds up being less severe than we all think it will be.

By the way, thanks for providing all the updates, Chris.

[Nixxxed]

I think there are more than one.
The one they keep talking about is Gulport, MS, which handles like 10% of the gasoline refining for the US. But there are refineries every few miles between Florida and NO.

Not to mention all the oil drilling rigs that have been shut down and evacuated in the Gulf. It will take a while to get them repaired and started back up.

[lbelle1214]

They are also talking about how the new buildings construction code was only made to sustain 150 mph winds. :eek:

In Biloxi, approx. 40% of people are refusing to leave and are disregarding the evacuation order. :(

I wish I could understand what the hell is wrong with someone who decides to "ride it out". I would have left, like, last week. :nod: This kind of thing scares the sh*t out of me.

They must not be old enough to remember Hurricane Camille..

[gldstwmn]

By the way, thanks for providing all the updates, Chris.

You are most welcome. I can't stop staring at the satellite images. :(

[GypsySorcerer]

Really? They must have been talking about the Aquarium of the Americas. That is very good news. Thank you!
I'm not sure if you're watching CNN, but they showed three dolphins that had been moved to a pool. I'm not sure if they were from the Aquarium, though. They must be scared. :(

[GateandGarden]

I'm not sure if you're watching CNN, but they showed three dolphins that had been moved to a pool. I'm not sure if they were from the Aquarium, though. They must be scared. :(I can only imagine how they're taking it. :( I wonder what's to become of the animals at the zoo? And as Heather mentioned, there are so many homeless people there and they have no place to go. It's just so saddening. I don't really know what else to say besides that. :distress:

[GypsySorcerer]

I can only imagine how they're taking it. :( I wonder what's to become of the animals at the zoo? And as Heather mentioned, there are so many homeless people there and they have no place to go. It's just so saddening. I don't really know what else to say besides that. :distress:
I haven't felt this sick to my stomach in a long, long time, and I'm hundreds of miles away. :( I just hope everyone down there finds strength.

[amber]

You are most welcome. I can't stop staring at the satellite images. :(
yes, thank you. Every time I look I start crying, though.
.

[Mad4stevie]

I can only imagine how they're taking it. :( I wonder what's to become of the animals at the zoo? And as Heather mentioned, there are so many homeless people there and they have no place to go. It's just so saddening. I don't really know what else to say besides that. :distress:

My boyfriend spoke with a homeless man for about four hours during his trip to New Orleans and was asking him all about what the homeless do in the event of any kind of natural disaster. He said they really have no place to go, no transportation out of harm's way and no money to pay someone to get them out. Many of them will just die where they are, according to this man.

I am just horrified by thinking that this will probably be the last night on earth for all those people. God bless them . . .

[StevieNicksEO17]

My boyfriend spoke with a homeless man for about four hours during his trip to New Orleans and was asking him all about what the homeless do in the event of any kind of natural disaster. He said they really have no place to go, no transportation out of harm's way and no money to pay someone to get them out. Many of them will just die where they are, according to this man.

I am just horrified by thinking that this will probably be the last night on earth for all those people. God bless them . . .

After reading that, it made me sick to my stomach. :distress:

[vermicious knid]

According to the New Orleans Health Department, there are 17,000 to 19,000 homeless people in the city. I guess it is possible that some of these people have a car, but I don't understand how we will not see huge casualties.

[David]

According to the New Orleans Health Department, there are 17,000 to 19,000 homeless people in the city. I guess it is possible that some of these people have a car, but I don't understand how we will not see huge casualties.Didn't the authorities make any attempt to get the homeless into the stadium?

New Orleans is ****ed. Never live below sea level -- whether at the coast or in the far inland deserts.

[ryan8472]

Didn't the authorities make any attempt to get the homeless into the stadium?

New Orleans is ****ed. Never live below sea level -- whether at the coast or in the far inland deserts.
I'm sure whatever attempt was made to help those people, they could've done an even better job. :distress:

[Mad4stevie]

They just said on MSNBC that New Orleans crisis management once did a calculation with only a 14 foot storm surge - and that resulted in New Orleans being 30 feet under water. :shocked:

They are calling for a 28 foot storm surge with this hurricane. Much worse than a tsumani.

Those lines going into the superdome are outrageous. Wouldn't this also flood that area?

[LiquidBlue5000]

They just said on MSNBC that New Orleans crisis management once did a calculation with only a 14 foot storm surge - and that resulted in New Orleans being 30 feet under water. :shocked:

They are calling for a 28 foot storm surge with this hurricane. Much worse than a tsumani.

Those lines going into the superdome are outrageous. Wouldn't this also flood that area?


Thats what i was thinking... isnt it possible that the stadium could be submerged partially underwater?? and those people that are stuck in there will have no way to get out??? not looking good :distress:

[macfanken]

Thats what i was thinking... isnt it possible that the stadium could be submerged partially underwater?? and those people that are stuck in there will have no way to get out??? not looking good :distress:


I think the people will be in the seating areas... not on the ground level of the stadium. I'd hate to be in there when the lights go out.

[sara1998]

You are most welcome. I can't stop staring at the satellite images. :(
Me either. I've watched this thing all day long. I've never be so scared of a hurricane in all of my life. And I'm in Indiana! :o

[sara1998]

According to the New Orleans Health Department, there are 17,000 to 19,000 homeless people in the city. I guess it is possible that some of these people have a car, but I don't understand how we will not see huge casualties.
Oh God. That's the first I've heard of that. This makes me sick.

[gldstwmn]

Those lines going into the superdome are outrageous. Wouldn't this also flood that area?

What's starting to worry me now is that earlier in the day the were telling people to go to the Superdome. Then, as the day wore on, it became "the shelter of last resort." I just heard Larry King interview the mayor of NO and it occurs to me now that they aren't certain if it will hold or not. :(

[gldstwmn]

Thats what i was thinking... isnt it possible that the stadium could be submerged partially underwater?? and those people that are stuck in there will have no way to get out??? not looking good :distress:

Yes. Everyone that is there will be camped out at higher levels of the stadium-with the food and water that they brought with them. It's entirely possible that the Superdome will flood.

[David]

I think the people will be in the seating areas... not on the ground level of the stadium. I'd hate to be in there when the lights go out."Where were you when the lights went out?"

the old saw goes!

[gldstwmn]

I think the people will be in the seating areas... not on the ground level of the stadium. I'd hate to be in there when the lights go out.

Not to mention no one can smoke, there will be no air conditioning and what will happen when people start to run out of food and water? How about when they can't flush the toilet?

[gldstwmn]

Me either. I've watched this thing all day long. I've never be so scared of a hurricane in all of my life. And I'm in Indiana! :o

I hear you. I feel the same way.

[sara1998]

Yes. Everyone that is there will be camped out at higher levels of the stadium-with the food and water that they brought with them. It's entirely possible that the Superdome will flood.
Sure it will flood. But will they be able to stay up high enough to stay away from the flood, and, will there be enough room for 12000+ people up there? And, bring enough food for 5 days??? Do they really think all this water will receed in 5 days??? From my understanding, NO has pumps to pump the water out of the city, but if the pumps are underwater, and there is no electricity, how are they going to work??

[gldstwmn]

Sure it will flood. But will they be able to stay up high enough to stay away from the flood, and, will there be enough room for 12000+ people up there? And, bring enough food for 5 days??? Do they really think all this water will receed in 5 days??? From my understanding, NO has pumps to pump the water out of the city, but if the pumps are underwater, and there is no electricity, how are they going to work??

That's the thing. They don't.

[Mad4stevie]

They just talked to the Director of Hurricane Operations on MSNBC and he said that if it hits at this heightened stage, the city will be flooded FOR 6 MONTHS. :shocked:

My God.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Sure it will flood. But will they be able to stay up high enough to stay away from the flood, and, will there be enough room for 12000+ people up there? And, bring enough food for 5 days??? Do they really think all this water will receed in 5 days??? From my understanding, NO has pumps to pump the water out of the city, but if the pumps are underwater, and there is no electricity, how are they going to work??


There were some foolish people still on Bourban Street drinking and partying during the day, not adhering to these severe warnings... i am inclined to believe that those people are not gonna make it out alive... why are some people so foolish and stubborn??? ::sigh::

[sara1998]

They just talked to the Director of Hurricane Operations on MSNBC and he said that if it hits at this heightened stage, the city will be flooded FOR 6 MONTHS. :shocked:

My God.
I have no doubt. I hope there's a plan in place to get those people out of the dome. Otherwise, it will become one mass tomb.

[Mad4stevie]

Sure it will flood. But will they be able to stay up high enough to stay away from the flood, and, will there be enough room for 12000+ people up there? And, bring enough food for 5 days??? Do they really think all this water will receed in 5 days??? From my understanding, NO has pumps to pump the water out of the city, but if the pumps are underwater, and there is no electricity, how are they going to work??

They just said the pumps could never keep up with this kind of storm surge. My guess is that it will flood. My God, can you imagine the chaos inside there when the lights go out and the water starts to fill up the stadium?

The Director of the Red Cross said that this will be the most extensive effort in the history of the Red Cross.

[LiquidBlue5000]

I have no doubt. I hope there's a plan in place to get those people out of the dome. Otherwise, it will become one mass tomb.

Thats what i'm thinking... they should have just evacuated the ENTIRE CITY... bring in military forces and demand the people get out... the 20-25,000 people stuck in the superdome may never come out of there alive :distress: :distress:

[sara1998]

I know this is of no importance compared to the loss of life/livelyhood/homes in that area but, ya know, I really wish I could have made it there on vacation. I'll never know New Orleans like it is today. And, after tomorrow, it will never, ever be the same. :distress: There's so much history there, and I'm sad it will be gone.

[Mad4stevie]

Thats what i'm thinking... they should have just evacuated the ENTIRE CITY... bring in military forces and demand the people get out... the 20-25,000 people stuck in the superdome may never come out of there alive :distress: :distress:

From what I recall, the Superdome isn't that far from the water . . .

[gldstwmn]

I have no doubt. I hope there's a plan in place to get those people out of the dome. Otherwise, it will become one mass tomb.

I don't think there is a plan to get them out. I mean I hope there is. :shrug: I posted an article earlier in the thread that talked about the National Guard's high water vehicles being in Iraq. What the hell are they doing there?
I could just hear something in the mayor's voice when he was on Larry King a little while ago that made me very uneasy. It's like he knows what's coming but doesn't want to freak everybody out. God I hope I'm wrong.

[Mad4stevie]

I know this is of no importance compared to the loss of life/livelyhood/homes in that area but, ya know, I really wish I could have made it there on vacation. I'll never know New Orleans like it is today. And, after tomorrow, it will never, ever be the same. :distress: There's so much history there, and I'm sad it will be gone.

Yes. Me too. My boyfriend said it was amazing down there. So many great antique shops and amazing historical homes.

[LiquidBlue5000]

I know this is of no importance compared to the loss of life/livelyhood/homes in that area but, ya know, I really wish I could have made it there on vacation. I'll never know New Orleans like it is today. And, after tomorrow, it will never, ever be the same. :distress: There's so much history there, and I'm sad it will be gone.


same here... i never been there... its so weird.. just a few days ago, i was discussing with Mariel (xxxmx) about having a Ledgie convention in New Orleans sometime next year... we thought it would have been the perfect spot... shame :distress:

[GateandGarden]

They just talked to the Director of Hurricane Operations on MSNBC and he said that if it hits at this heightened stage, the city will be flooded FOR 6 MONTHS. :shocked:

My God.I heard a similar estimate. Understandably, we're worried about the current situation, but what happens later is much scarier! Where are those people supposed to go afterward? I dare say that a lot of them could have gotten out of the city earlier but chose not to. This is one of those times that people should have evacuated earlier and taken it very seriously but many didn't. Of course, I know that some tried and were not able to, and others didn't have vehicles.

[GateandGarden]

From what I recall, the Superdome isn't that far from the water . . .No, not at all. What it has going for it is being so massive and tall. But still...

[David]

I have no doubt. I hope there's a plan in place to get those people out of the dome. Otherwise, it will become one mass tomb.How do you know for sure?

How many feet above mean sea level is this stadium? Meteorologists think it's possible the hurricane winds may weaken somewhat before landfall, & every little bit will help in terms of the stadium's structural integrity. I think the main danger is the storm tide -- to the whole area, really. The higher you are, the safer you'll be from being swamped in debris-choked ocean water.

[sara1998]

I posted an article earlier in the thread that talked about the National Guard's high water vehicles being in Iraq. What the hell are they doing there?

First off, here comes my ignorance. Isn't Iraq landlocked?? And second off, hats off to shrub for taking our resources and troops and ****ing sending them off. Not that it would have completely mattered in this situation, but every little bit helps.

[GateandGarden]

Yes. Me too. My boyfriend said it was amazing down there. So many great antique shops and amazing historical homes.Yes, a million times. It's like no other place. :(

There has been talk for years about building a wall around the city (particularly the French Quarter) to preserve it in case something like this were to happen. That would have been a great idea, I'm thinking! I wish they'd actually done it. Of course, there were issues with that, like, where to draw the line. Would it cover the French Quarter only and not include the "slums" outside the city that are populated mainly by blacks? That is what some people wanted, from what I understand, and that is unavoidably racist, I think. Even if they could go in and out, it would be at the very least a symbolic kind of segregation. But I guess that's all a moot point now. :distress: My brother seems convinced that the city can withstand this, that when the water's gone most of what makes it New Orleans will still be intact. I just don't believe him. I don't see how I could.

[sara1998]

How do you know for sure?

How many feet above mean sea level is this stadium? Meteorologists think it's possible the hurricane winds may weaken somewhat before landfall, & every little bit will help in terms of the stadium's structural integrity. I think the main danger is the storm tide -- to the whole area, really. The higher you are, the safer you'll be from being swamped in debris-choked ocean water.
Well, if it's built on the ground, then it's going to flood...... If it floods, you're stuck until the water receeds. If there's not enough food and any clean water, you're going to die.

[GateandGarden]

First off, here comes my ignorance. Isn't Iraq landlocked?? And second off, hats off to shrub for taking our resources and troops and ****ing sending them off. Not that it would have completely mattered in this situation, but every little bit helps.You're not ignorant--it is landlocked, and surrounded by five other countries, I believe. So, I don't know why those high water vehicles are there, really.

[GateandGarden]

How many feet above mean sea level is this stadium? The stadium itself is below sea level. (Well, I guess that's obvious). I think it's six feet below sea level. But as for the highest levels, I'm not sure. I guess that was your actual question and I wasn't able to answer it.

[sara1998]

How many feet above mean sea level is this stadium?

Well, if it's built on the ground, then it's going to flood...... If it floods, you're stuck until the water receeds. If there's not enough food and any clean water, you're going to die.

Sorry, David, I didn't mean to sound like a sarcastic smartass when I answered that. I don't know how high up it goes, but if the floor of it is flooded, I don't see any way out for those people.

[ThePenguin]

Sorry, David, I didn't mean to sound like a sarcastic smartass when I answered that. I don't know how high up it goes, but if the floor of it is flooded, I don't see any way out for those people.


From what i just heard on the news, they said they do expect that people will end up going up into the bleachers, as the floor will be flooded. and of course there will be no light and no A/C....The plan is for folks to remain in the dome until Tuesday, after which they said 'the federal govt' will remove them. what the heck does that mean? how will they remove 10,000 people? where will they put them? can you imagine people w babies/children in that situation? I really feel for them, what an absolute nightmare.

-Lis

[WelshWitchPMD]

My parents lived through '38. My mother talked about the strom her whole life as the most terrifying storm she had ever lived through.

Same here! My Mom used to tell me all about it. All of the windows blew out of the house. They had no school for at least a week. Downtown Providence was totally flooded. There are a few buildings downtown that have a plaque to mark how high the water came up during the hurricane.
My Dad just told me basically the same thing. He said that luckily everyone in his family came home right before the storm got really bad. This was back in the day when there was no warning. He said that he remembers getting out of junior high school and the sky was blue but there were some very low and fast moving clouds coming in.
It did change a lot if the landscape in RI. They have since built a hurricane barrier so that the ocean does flood downtown anymore.

I really pray for everyone in the path of storm. I hope that everyone stays safe and that New Orleans gets by with minimal damage.

[WelshWitchPMD]

I only had to live through one hurricane and that was hurricane Belle in 1976, a category 1. We got more wind than anything else. I think the winds reached about 75 mph. It hit us in the middle of the night. I remember I slept in the bed with my mom that night and waking up to the sound of things flying past the window. I don't think she was sleeping at all though.


Yeah, I remember that one. I think that I slept though that storm, too.

[vermicious knid]

Goodbye French Quarter, it was nice knowing you
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4803/nphcachecam5mz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[GateandGarden]

Goodbye French Quarter, it was nice knowing you:distress: Don't lose hope entirely. I know it doesn't look good but there's always hope that they can pick up the pieces.

[strandinthewind]

Isn't there a gasoline refinery in Mississippi that's in danger?

The coastal area off of Louisiana and neighboring states produces a significant percentage of the nation's oil supply. Those offshore platforms are evacuated and may not be able to resume production until a week from now or later depending on the damage - some could be destroyed.

To add to that, the Gulf states, particularly the area around New Orleans, refine something like 30 percent of the nation's oil supply and even more that enters the US through the ports of Orleans and Houston, which also will feel the effect of this storm. So, that is why the price of oil is jumping.

[strandinthewind]

I think being in that huge steel-reinforced concrete stadium (or whatever it is) is one of the safer places to be in the area, by far. I assume it's at least 25 feet above mean sea level?

The way to stack the odds in your favor in a powerful hurricane is to get as far as you can above sea level & the storm tide, & to get to reinforced shelter, & the stadium seems one of the best places to be if you're stuck in New Orleans.

It is the strongest building in New Orleans and was built with this intent, amongst others. People are being put in the bleachers as it is expected the field level will flood. With a little luck and God's grace, these people should be okay.

As for the food and water, there is little else the city and other authorities can do. But, in these situations, people share and bring more than required. Also, the city is working on providing some type of relief, though those efforts are a little difficult as the other citizens have most def. depleted most of the city's supplies of non-perishable items.

[strandinthewind]

There are also alot of homeless people there. They will never be able to get out in time and have no where to go.

The city has shelters - I hope the homeless find them. The police, however, usually see the homeless when they are conducting the street sweeps and guide them to a shelter. Many of them, however, are too crazy/insane to remain there and will leave on their own.

[David]

The stadium itself is below sea level. (Well, I guess that's obvious). I think it's six feet below sea level. But as for the highest levels, I'm not sure. I guess that was your actual question and I wasn't able to answer it.Huh. No, I did not know that. I did not know that the stadium floor was necessarily below sea level. I just don't know the geography of New Orleans.

So essentially the entire area is below mean sea level? That's baaad.

If I were stuck in the city, I'd find a steel & concrete reinforced structure of at least two or three stories & get to the upper stories. It's been observed that strong concrete structures do well in tsunamis, & tsunami damage & effects are very similar to storm surge damage (like rapidly rising tides containing sizable inundation & dangerous rip currents). I would imagine that the concept of "vertical evacuation" could have some validity in this context, the obvious difference being high winds.

[Mad4stevie]

There are still bars open on Bourbon street, with people in there drinking the night away! WTF????

And why do people think it is safer to "ride it out" on boats? That does not make sense to me at all.

[strandinthewind]

Sure it will flood. But will they be able to stay up high enough to stay away from the flood, and, will there be enough room for 12000+ people up there? And, bring enough food for 5 days??? Do they really think all this water will receed in 5 days??? From my understanding, NO has pumps to pump the water out of the city, but if the pumps are underwater, and there is no electricity, how are they going to work??


Yes, they can work without the public power supply. they are failrly sophisticated, but somewhat dated. The problem is they will be pumping water into already flooded areas whose sea walls will likely already be breached.

[gldstwmn]

Isn't Iraq landlocked??

No. It isn't. Now without going to Google I'm going to guess that it is bordered on one side by the Persian Gulf. But it is a desert.

[strandinthewind]

There are still bars open on Bourbon street, with people in there drinking the night away! WTF????

And why do people think it is safer to "ride it out" on boats? That does not make sense to me at all.


They could not get out. Their flights were cancelled - at least some of them. Interestingly, most of the hotels have 200 mph + windows and vertical evacuation into them is standard operating procedure.

[GateandGarden]

Huh. No, I did not know that. I did not know that the stadium floor was necessarily below sea level. I just don't know the geography of New Orleans.

So essentially the entire area is below mean sea level? That's baaad.The whole city is below sea level, yeah. It's a curious thing. It's also essentially surrounded by water--the MS River and Lake Ponchartrain.

[gldstwmn]

You're not ignorant--it is landlocked, and surrounded by five other countries, I believe. So, I don't know why those high water vehicles are there, really.

You're right. A tiny part of it touches water.

[GateandGarden]

No. It isn't. Now without going to Google I'm going to guess that it is bordered on one side by the Persian Gulf. But it is a desert.Really? I need to go look at a map again. I thought it was surrounded by five other countries, though it's near the coast because some of them are comparatively small.

[David]

And why do people think it is safer to "ride it out" on boats?That is extremely stupid. Small craft are not safe -- even in lower-grade hurricanes. In this monster, you're really just heading for an early death if you think you can climb into your 21-foot Boston whaler & "ride out" the hurricane. This ocean water inundating the coastlines is not going to be behaving like ordinary ocean water. It isn't just high surf. It's really potentially deadly to people caught in it.

[GateandGarden]

You're right. A tiny part of it touches water.Oh, okay. Thanks for clarifying.

[gldstwmn]

Same here! My Mom used to tell me all about it. All of the windows blew out of the house. They had no school for at least a week. Downtown Providence was totally flooded. There are a few buildings downtown that have a plaque to mark how high the water came up during the hurricane.


One of them used to be a department store, I think. I can't remember the name of it now.

[strandinthewind]

Goodbye French Quarter, it was nice knowing you
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4803/nphcachecam5mz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I know this is a huge storm and certainly it is dangerous, but Miami withstood Andrew (which also hit around NOLA :shrug: ) and NOLA survived as it will this one.

[strandinthewind]

Huh. No, I did not know that. I did not know that the stadium floor was necessarily below sea level. I just don't know the geography of New Orleans.

So essentially the entire area is below mean sea level? That's baaad.

If I were stuck in the city, I'd find a steel & concrete reinforced structure of at least two or three stories & get to the upper stories. It's been observed that strong concrete structures do well in tsunamis, & tsunami damage & effects are very similar to storm surge damage (like rapidly rising tides containing sizable inundation & dangerous rip currents). I would imagine that the concept of "vertical evacuation" could have some validity in this context, the obvious difference being high winds.

The hotels in NOLA are so built and also are built to withstand 200 + mph winds and vertcial evacuation is part of the plan, though evacuating the city is the best plan.

[amber]

That is extremely stupid. Small craft are not safe -- even in lower-grade hurricanes. In this monster, you're really just heading for an early death if you think you can climb into your 21-foot Boston whaler & "ride out" the hurricane. This ocean water inundating the coastlines is not going to be behaving like ordinary ocean water. It isn't just high surf. It's really potentially deadly to people caught in it.
I can't believe anyone ever thought of doing that ever. That would be the exact last place on Earth my instincts would tell me to be. 160 mile an hour winds and enormous amounts of ocean water. Yeah, ride it out... :shocked: :( I'm imagining boats flying through the air.

[GateandGarden]

I know this is a huge storm and certainly it is dangerous, but Miami withstood Andrew (which also hit around NOLA :shrug: ) and NOLA survived as it will this one.Did Miami take a direct hit from a Category 5? I didn't think there had ever been a hurricane with that strength coming straight toward such a large city. Also, is Miami that low? I didn't think it was. If you know more about this than I do (that's a given! :laugh: ), then comfort me here, Jason. I do love that city.

[David]

Interestingly, most of the hotels have 200 mph + windows and vertical evacuation into them is standard operating procedure.It's what I would do if I were stuck in that area.

The other thing about the wind & the water is debris. Think of tornadoes & tsunamis. The debris is lifted aloft, into the air or into the water, & propelled as missiles. The debris missiles sometimes kill more people than the actual elements (air, water) propelling them.

[gldstwmn]

There are still bars open on Bourbon street, with people in there drinking the night away! WTF????

And why do people think it is safer to "ride it out" on boats? That does not make sense to me at all.

I don't get that.

[strandinthewind]

That is extremely stupid. Small craft are not safe -- even in lower-grade hurricanes. In this monster, you're really just heading for an early death if you think you can climb into your 21-foot Boston whaler & "ride out" the hurricane. This ocean water inundating the coastlines is not going to be behaving like ordinary ocean water. It isn't just high surf. It's really potentially deadly to people caught in it.

I have never heard of people riding it out in a boat - but if they do, I wish them luck. Most likely, what is happening is people are riding it out in a secure strcture and brough a flat bottomed boat with them to be able to travel in the flood.

[strandinthewind]

It's what I would do if I were stuck in that area.

The other thing about the wind & the water is debris. Think of tornadoes & tsunamis. The debris is lifted aloft, into the air or into the water, & propelled as missiles. The debris missiles sometimes kill more people than the actual elements (air, water) propelling them.

Its true. The first rooms to go are the ones that face a courtyard or something as they are less vulnerable to that danger. I do not believe any 200 + mph windows have ever been smashed in by debris - though I am not sure of every case.

[Mad4stevie]

I have never heard of people riding it out in a boat - but if they do, I wish them luck. Most likely, what is happening is people are riding it out in a secure strcture and brough a flat bottomed boat with them to be able to travel in the flood.

On MSNBC, they just interviewed a woman who was planning on riding it out on a shrimp boat with her boyfriend AND THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. :distress:

What the hell is wrong with these people?

[strandinthewind]

On MSNBC, they just interviewed a woman who was planning on riding it out on a shrimp boat with her boyfriend AND THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. :distress:

What the hell is wrong with these people?


Where were they? New Orleans itself has no shrimping trade as its water is brackish. Most likely, they will be 20+ miles away, which is still stupid IMO.

[gldstwmn]

On MSNBC, they just interviewed a woman who was planning on riding it out on a shrimp boat with her boyfriend AND THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. :distress:

What the hell is wrong with these people?

I saw that earlier. I guess the rode out a category 1 before and think they can do it again.

[strandinthewind]

It's what I would do if I were stuck in that area.

The other thing about the wind & the water is debris. Think of tornadoes & tsunamis. The debris is lifted aloft, into the air or into the water, & propelled as missiles. The debris missiles sometimes kill more people than the actual elements (air, water) propelling them.


BTW - I survived the Pacific ring of fire and am back home!!!!!!!!!!!

[gldstwmn]

Where were they? New Orleans itself has no shrimping trade as its water is brackish. Most likely, they will be 20+ miles away, which is still stupid IMO.

I think they might have been in Mississippi.

[strandinthewind]

I think they might have been in Mississippi.


Then they are likely fine. But, it still seems stupid to me.

[amber]

Where were they? New Orleans itself has no shrimping trade as its water is brackish. Most likely, they will be 20+ miles away, which is still stupid IMO.
around Biloxi.

[David]

BTW - I survived the Pacific ring of fire and am back home!!!!!!!!!!!Alaska!! But I sure hope you took my warning seriously & avoided Lituya Bay.

[strandinthewind]

Alaska!! But I sure hope you took my warning seriously & avoided Lituya Bay.


We left from Vancouver, which I thought was part of that. I also thought Alaska was? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ring_of_Fire

But, yes, the literature on the ship seemed to suggest no cruise ships like to go there :eek:

[gldstwmn]

<img src="http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/2xg1_ir_anim.gif">

[David]

We left from Vancouver, which I thought was part of that. I also thought Alaska was?Alaska is most definitely in the Ring of Fire. It is -- by far -- the most actively seismic state in the Union. It has not only the most earthquakes of any state in the country, it has the most powerful. Lituya Bay is part of Glacier Bay Nat'l Park, but it's not really a tourist destination because it's not readily accessible. The Fairweather Fault butts up against the inlet, & can generate quakes of magnitude 8.
But, yes, the literature on the ship seemed to suggest no cruise ships like to go there :eek:Yeah, I don't think cruise ships could get past the spit.

The best way to survey Lituya Bay is by helicopter.

[GateandGarden]

"Katrina may be 'our Asian tsunami'"

(CNN) -- Flooding expected from Hurricane Katrina could wreak catastrophe on New Orleans, overwhelming its water and sewage systems, damaging its structures and leaving survivors in a bowl of toxic soup, a top hurricane expert said Sunday.

Landfall is expected early Monday. (Latest report)

"We need to recognize we may be about to experience our equivalent of the Asian tsunami, in terms of the damage and the numbers of people that can be killed," said Ivor van Heerden, director of the Louisiana State University Public Health Research Center in Baton Rouge.

Some 25 feet of standing water is expected in many parts of the city -- almost twice the height of the average home -- and computer models suggest that more than 80 percent of buildings would be badly damaged or destroyed, he said. (Watch a report on the worst-case scenario)

Floodwaters from the east will carry toxic waste from the "Industrial Canal" area, nicknamed after the chemical plants there. From the west, floodwaters would flow through the Norco Destrehan Industrial Complex, which includes refineries and chemical plants, said van Heerden, who has studied computer models about the impact of a strong hurricane for four years.

"These chemical plants are going to start flying apart, just as the other buildings do," he predicted. "So, we have the potential for release of benzene, hydrochloric acid, chlorine and so on."

That could result in severe air and water pollution, he said.

In New Orleans, which lies below sea level, gas and diesel tanks are all located above ground for the same reason that bodies are buried above ground. In the event of a flood, "those tanks will start to float, shear their couplings, and we'll have the release of these rather volatile compounds," van Heerden added.

Because gasoline floats on water, "we could end up with some pretty severe and large -- area-wise -- fires."

"So, we're looking at a bowl full of highly contaminated water with contaminated air flowing around and, literally, very few places for anybody to go where they'll be safe."

He went further.

"So, imagine you're the poor person who decides not to evacuate: Your house will disintegrate around you. The best you'll be able to do is hang on to a light pole, and while you're hanging on, the fire ants from all the mounds -- of which there is two per yard on average -- will clamber up that same pole. And, eventually, the fire ants will win."

The levees intended to protect the city vary in height, from as low as 10 feet above sea level to about 14 feet, he said. They too are vulnerable, because they are made of earth, he said.
Disaster waiting to happen

Previous studies have suggested a catastrophic toll in lives and property if a major hurricane were to hit the New Orleans area, where about 1.3 million people live.

Walter Maestri, the emergency management chief in neighboring Jefferson Parish, said Hurricane Georges in 1998 could have killed as many as 44,000 people had it struck the city directly.

"The way it's described, we describe it here, is Lake Pontchartrain has now become Lake New Orleans," he told CNN in 2004.

Van Heerden said levees built to protect New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain could be buffeted by waves from the lake, which is about 23 miles by 35 miles in area.

"You're going to have enormous waves develop on that lake, especially with as much as 14 hours of hurricane-force winds." Those waves will erode the levees, raising the possibility of their collapse, he said.

"This is what we've been saying has been going to happen for years," he said. "Unfortunately, it's coming true."

Rick Luettich, a professor at the University of North Carolina's Institute of Marine Sciences, compared Katrina's expected impact on areas far up the Mississippi to "grabbing the end of the bed cover and giving it a hard snap."

That snap will push "probably in excess of 10 feet" of floodwater up the river, he predicted. "It will propagate up the river like a wave," past Baton Rouge, more than 70 miles away, he said.

For 15 years, Luettich has been developing a hydrodynamic circulation model -- called AdCirc -- that he said the Federal Emergency Management Agency has endorsed to help emergency managers predict storm damage.

Apologizing for the possibility that his comment could be interpreted as somewhat ghoulish, he said, "This is, in some ways, a little bit exciting for us, because it's a real opportunity to test this technology we've developed and see how well it works."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/katrina.doomsday/index.html

[amber]

Stunning. Thanks for posting.

[gldstwmn]

Did Miami take a direct hit from a Category 5? I didn't think there had ever been a hurricane with that strength coming straight toward such a large city. Also, is Miami that low? I didn't think it was.

Link to info on Andrew:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew

[GateandGarden]

Link to info on Andrew:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_AndrewThanks Chris.

[SapphireSister]

Thanks Chris.

Hillary run for your life!! It sounds bad. I hope you are ok. :eek:

[gldstwmn]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

New Orleans CityBusiness, Jun 6, 2005 by Deon Roberts

In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding.

It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said.

I've been here over 30 years and I've never seen this level of reduction, said Al Naomi, project manager for the New Orleans district. I think part of the problem is it's not so much the reduction, it's the drastic reduction in one fiscal year. It's the immediacy of the reduction that I think is the hardest thing to adapt to.

There is an economic ripple effect, too. The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now.

Money is so tight the New Orleans district, which employs 1,300 people, instituted a hiring freeze last month on all positions. The freeze is the first of its kind in about 10 years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the Corps' Programs Management Branch.

Stephen Jeselink, interim commander of the New Orleans Corps district, told employees in an internal e-mail dated May 25 that the district is experiencing financial challenges. Execution of our available funds must be dealt with through prudent districtwide management decisions. In addition to a hiring freeze, Jeselink canceled the annual Corps picnic held every June.

Congress is setting the Corps budget.

The House of Representatives wants to cut the New Orleans district budget 21 percent to $272.4 million in 2006, down from $343.5 million in 2005. The House figure is about $20 million lower than the president's suggested $290.7 million budget.

It's now up to the Senate. Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-New Orleans, is making no promises.

It's going to be very tough, Landrieu said. The House was not able to add back this money ... but hopefully we can rally in the Senate and get some of this money back.

Landrieu said the Bush administration is not making Corps of Engineers funding a priority.

I think it's extremely shortsighted, Landrieu said. When the Corps of Engineers' budget is cut, Louisiana bleeds. These projects are literally life-and-death projects to the people of south Louisiana and they are (of) vital economic interest to the entire nation.

The Corps' budget could still be beefed up, as it is every year, through congressional additions. Last year, Congress added $20 million to the overall budget of the New Orleans district but a similar increase this year would still leave a $50 million shortfall.

One of the hardest-hit areas of the New Orleans district's budget is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes. SELA's budget is being drained from $36.5 million awarded in 2005 to $10.4 million suggested for 2006 by the House of Representatives and the president.

The project manager said there would be no contracts awarded with this $10.4 million, Demma said.

The construction portion of the Corps' budget would suffer if Congress doesn't add money. In 2005, the district received $94.3 million in federal dollars dedicated to construction. In 2006, the proposal is for $56 million.

It would be critical to this city if we had a $50 million construction budget compared with the past years, Demma said. It would be horrible for the city, it would be horrible for contractors and for flood protection if this were the final number compared to recent years and what the city needs.

Construction generally has been on the decline for several years and focus has been on other projects in the Corps.

The district has identified $35 million in projects to build and improve levees, floodwalls and pumping stations in St. Bernard, Orleans, Jefferson and St. Charles parishes. Those projects are included in a Corps line item called Lake Pontchartrain, where funding is scheduled to be cut from $5.7 million this year to $2.9 million in 2006. Naomi said it's enough to pay salaries but little else.

We'll do some design work. We'll design the contracts and get them ready to go if we get the money. But we don't have the money to put the work in the field, and that's the problem, Naomi said.

The Appropriations Committee in Congress will ultimately decide how much the New Orleans district will receive, he said.

Obviously, the decisions are being made up there that are not beneficial to the state, in my opinion, Naomi said. Let's put it this way: When (former Rep.) Bob Livingston (R-Metairie) was chairman of the Appropriations Committee, we didn't have a monetary problem. Our problem was how do we spend all the money we were getting.

[gldstwmn]

http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/raw/ww/wwus74.klix.npw.lix.txt

WWUS74 KLIX 282139
NPWLIX

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...EXTREMELY DANGEROUS HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER DELTA...
...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WATCH IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
POSSIBLE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 TO 36 HOURS.

LAZ038-040-050-056>070-MSZ080>082-290300-
ASSUMPTION-HANCOCK-HARRISON-JACKSON-LIVINGSTON-LOWER JEFFERSON-
LOWER LAFOURCHE-LOWER PLAQUEMINES-LOWER ST. BERNARD-LOWER TERREBONNE-
ORLEANS-ST. CHARLES-ST. JAMES-ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST-ST. TAMMANY-
TANGIPAHOA-UPPER JEFFERSON-UPPER LAFOURCHE-UPPER PLAQUEMINES-
UPPER ST. BERNARD-UPPER TERREBONNE-
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS IN EFFECT...

HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE AREA. TROPICAL STORM
FORCE WINDS ARE CURRENTLY MOVING INTO THE COASTAL MARSHES AND WILL
PERSIST FOR THE NEXT 26 TO 28 HOURS. HURRICANE FORCE WINDS WILL
ONSET AROUND MIDNIGHT NEAR THE COAST AND BY 3 AM CLOSER TO THE NEW
ORLEANS METRO AREA AND PERSIST FOR 9 TO 15 HOURS. MAXIMUM WIND GUSTS
AROUND 175 MPH ARE LIKELY IN THE WARNED AREA BY DAYBREAK MONDAY.

DO NOT VENTURE OUTDOORS ONCE TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ONSET!

$$

LAZ034>037-039-046>049-MSZ068>071-077-290300-
AMITE-ASCENSION-EAST BATON ROUGE-EAST FELICIANA-IBERVILLE-
PEARL RIVER-PIKE-POINTE COUPEE-ST. HELENA-WALTHALL-WASHINGTON-
WEST BATON ROUGE-WEST FELICIANA-WILKINSON-
413 PM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS IN EFFECT...

HURRICANE KATRINA CONTINUES TO APPROACH THE AREA. TROPICAL STORM
FORCE WINDS ARE CURRENTLY MOVING INTO THE COASTAL MARSHES AND WILL
SREAD NORTHWESTWARD INTO THE GREATER BATON ROUGE AREA AND
SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI LATER THIS EVENING. TROPICAL STORM FORCE
WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO ONSET AROUND 9 PM TONIGHT AND PERSIST
FOR 22 TO 26 HOURS. HURRICANE FORCE WINDS WILL ONSET AROUND
DAYBREAK AND PERSIST FOR ABOUT 5 TO 10 HOURS. MAXIMUM WIND
GUSTS OF 80 TO 90 MPH ARE POSSIBLE IN EAST-CENTRAL LOUISIANA
AND SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI.

DO NOT VENTURE OUTDOORS ONCE TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ONSET!

[Dreammms]

:( i feel so bad for all those people

[David]

alt.travel.new-orleans is getting lots of posts from people on site. I'd imagine they'd keep posting as long as they can. It's interesting getting their on-site perspectives.

is there another New Orleans newsgroup or Web board that's worth monitoring?

[amber]

Oh, man. :distress:
do you have one of those satellite pics?

[sara1998]

I know this is a huge storm and certainly it is dangerous, but Miami withstood Andrew (which also hit around NOLA :shrug: ) and NOLA survived as it will this one.
Miami did not take a direct hit. Homestead did, which is about 20 or so miles west. My family was caught up in Andrew.

[sara1998]

Hillary, I hope you're safe..... :confused:

Post when you can, OK???

[sara1998]

The roof is peeling off the superdome...

[ryan8472]

The roof is peeling off the superdome...
I'm watching that on CNN now...where are they going to put all of those people now? Can they even move them now?

[Mari]

****, that's scary. When I heard at first that people were in that stadium I had my doubts about safety.. praying for everyone's safety over there.

[sodascouts]

I know everyone is praying and sending good thoughts out to the people in New Orleans. My fellow concert-goer Kristin (gypsyrhiannon) lives there. She has evacuated safely, and our greatest concern is for those whose lives are in danger, but let's hope the majority of her things are salvageable (indeed for everyone whose home is in its path).

[AliceLover]

Did the hurricane hit yet? Any news?

[GypsySorcerer]

According to CNN, the worst has passed New Orleans. It looks like the levee will hold and those in the Superdome are safe. The pump system is failing, though, and obviously there has been major structural damage. :(

EDIT - CNN reporting a breach in the levee.

[GypsySorcerer]

NEW ORLEANS - Hurricane Katrina ripped two holes in the curved roof of the Louisiana Superdome, letting in rain as thousands of storm refugees huddled inside Monday.

Superdome and government emergency officials stressed that they did not expect the huge roof to fail because of the relatively small breaches, each about 15 to 20 feet long and 4 to 5 feet wide.

The holes were in an area of vents some 19 stories above the arena floor.

"We think the wind somehow got into the vents and got between the roof's (waterproof) membrane and the aluminum ceiling tiles," said Doug Thornton, regional manager of the company that manages the huge arena.

The dome was filled with the sound of metal rattling, which Thornton said was produced by the metal ceiling tiles.

"I could have stayed at home and watched my roof blow off," said one of the refugees, Harald Johnson, 43. "Instead, I came down here and watched the Superdome roof blow off. It's no big deal; getting wet is not like dying."

In addition to the two holes, water was leaking in through many other areas, including elevators and stairwells, as the wind forced water in through any small opening.

Refugees sitting below the tears in the roof were moved across the arena. "We wanted to keep them dry and we also wanted to make sure nothing fell on them," Thornton said.

Aside from the tear in the huge roof, the 77,000-seat steel-framework stadium, home of the NFL's New Orleans Saints, provided few comforts but at least had bathrooms and food donated by charities.

The wind that howled around the dome during the night was not heard in the interior of the building where the refugees were kept.

"Everybody slept last night. They didn't seem to have any problems," said Dr. Kevin Stephens Sr., in charge of the medical shelter in the Superdome. "They slept all over the place."

Power failed in the Superdome around 5 a.m. Monday, triggering groans from the crowd. Emergency generators kicked in, but the backup power runs only reduced lighting, not the air conditioning.

The inside of the Superdome quickly became very hot and muggy, and some floors became wet and very slippery.

"It's not very comfortable now and it's going to get more uncomfortable, but it is safe," Thornton said.

The Superdome opened its doors at noon Sunday, and New Orleans' most frail residents got priority. The stadium is by far the most solid of the Big Easy's 10 refuges for the estimated 100,000 city residents who don't have the means, or strength, to join a mandatory evacuation.

"They hadn't opened up and let us in here, there'd have been a lot of people floating down river tomorrow," said Merrill Rice, 64. "If it's as bad as they say, I know my old house won't stand it."

Residents lined up for blocks, clutching meager belongings and crying children as National Guardsman searched them for guns, knives and drugs.

Then Katrina's rain began, drenching hundreds of people still outside, along with their bags of food and clothing. Eventually, the searches were moved inside to the Superdome floor, where some people wrapped themselves in blankets and tried to sleep.

It was almost 10:30 p.m. before the last person was searched and allowed in. Thornton estimated 8,000 to 9,000 were inside when the doors closed for the 11 p.m. curfew.

More than 600 people with medical needs were inside. "And we sent another 400 to hospitals," said Gen. Ralph Lupin, who commands the 550 National Guard troops in the Dome.

"We've got sick babies, sick old people and everything in between," Stephens said. "We're seen strokes, chest pain, diabetes patients passing out, seizures, people without medicine, people with the wrong medicine. It's been busy."

Thornton worried about how everyone would fare over the next few days.

"We're expecting to be here for the long haul," he said. "We can make things very nice for 75,000 people for four hours. But we aren't set up to really accommodate 8,000 for four days."

Morris Bivens, 53, a painter, came to the dome with his wife, daughter and five granddaughters ranging in age from 1 to 9.

"I had to come," he said. "Not for me. I ride these out all the time. But I knew I couldn't save those children in this one if something happened."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome

[AliceLover]

NEW ORLEANS - Hurricane Katrina ripped two holes in the curved roof of the Louisiana Superdome, letting in rain as thousands of storm refugees huddled inside Monday.

Superdome and government emergency officials stressed that they did not expect the huge roof to fail because of the relatively small breaches, each about 15 to 20 feet long and 4 to 5 feet wide.

The holes were in an area of vents some 19 stories above the arena floor.

"We think the wind somehow got into the vents and got between the roof's (waterproof) membrane and the aluminum ceiling tiles," said Doug Thornton, regional manager of the company that manages the huge arena.

The dome was filled with the sound of metal rattling, which Thornton said was produced by the metal ceiling tiles.

"I could have stayed at home and watched my roof blow off," said one of the refugees, Harald Johnson, 43. "Instead, I came down here and watched the Superdome roof blow off. It's no big deal; getting wet is not like dying."

In addition to the two holes, water was leaking in through many other areas, including elevators and stairwells, as the wind forced water in through any small opening.

Refugees sitting below the tears in the roof were moved across the arena. "We wanted to keep them dry and we also wanted to make sure nothing fell on them," Thornton said.

Aside from the tear in the huge roof, the 77,000-seat steel-framework stadium, home of the NFL's New Orleans Saints, provided few comforts but at least had bathrooms and food donated by charities.

The wind that howled around the dome during the night was not heard in the interior of the building where the refugees were kept.

"Everybody slept last night. They didn't seem to have any problems," said Dr. Kevin Stephens Sr., in charge of the medical shelter in the Superdome. "They slept all over the place."

Power failed in the Superdome around 5 a.m. Monday, triggering groans from the crowd. Emergency generators kicked in, but the backup power runs only reduced lighting, not the air conditioning.

The inside of the Superdome quickly became very hot and muggy, and some floors became wet and very slippery.

"It's not very comfortable now and it's going to get more uncomfortable, but it is safe," Thornton said.

The Superdome opened its doors at noon Sunday, and New Orleans' most frail residents got priority. The stadium is by far the most solid of the Big Easy's 10 refuges for the estimated 100,000 city residents who don't have the means, or strength, to join a mandatory evacuation.

"They hadn't opened up and let us in here, there'd have been a lot of people floating down river tomorrow," said Merrill Rice, 64. "If it's as bad as they say, I know my old house won't stand it."

Residents lined up for blocks, clutching meager belongings and crying children as National Guardsman searched them for guns, knives and drugs.

Then Katrina's rain began, drenching hundreds of people still outside, along with their bags of food and clothing. Eventually, the searches were moved inside to the Superdome floor, where some people wrapped themselves in blankets and tried to sleep.

It was almost 10:30 p.m. before the last person was searched and allowed in. Thornton estimated 8,000 to 9,000 were inside when the doors closed for the 11 p.m. curfew.

More than 600 people with medical needs were inside. "And we sent another 400 to hospitals," said Gen. Ralph Lupin, who commands the 550 National Guard troops in the Dome.

"We've got sick babies, sick old people and everything in between," Stephens said. "We're seen strokes, chest pain, diabetes patients passing out, seizures, people without medicine, people with the wrong medicine. It's been busy."

Thornton worried about how everyone would fare over the next few days.

"We're expecting to be here for the long haul," he said. "We can make things very nice for 75,000 people for four hours. But we aren't set up to really accommodate 8,000 for four days."

Morris Bivens, 53, a painter, came to the dome with his wife, daughter and five granddaughters ranging in age from 1 to 9.

"I had to come," he said. "Not for me. I ride these out all the time. But I knew I couldn't save those children in this one if something happened."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome

Only 9,000 people out of 100,000 went to the shelter?? Thats crazy!!!! Where the F**k is everyone else?

[strandinthewind]

Only 9,000 people out of 100,000 went to the shelter?? Thats crazy!!!! Where the F**k is everyone else?


The police actually search for people on the streets and provide them a means to get to the dome. However, they cannot find everyone and people actually hide in their houses - foolishly so IMO.

On a good note, it appeara NOLA was mostly spared in a realtive sense. It would have ben worse if the storm had hit so that the Eastern seawall, which is the worst, would have hit NOLA instead of Biloxi. NOLA has gotten flodding, which is nothing really new there, and some buildings have collapsed, though those appear from what I have seen to be few.

Now, let's hope it does not become tornadoe alley like it did after Andrew.

[gldstwmn]

<img src="http://www.repubblica.it/2005/h/ARCHIVE/homepage/images/sezioni/esteri/katri/katri_HM/ap_6698082_57000.jpg">

<img src="http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2005/katrina/dopo.jpg">

[DavidMn]

Looks like maybe New Orleans missed some of it, hopefully the Levee's hold :angel:

[DavidMn]

And the thing is, I was just driving through that area like a month ago on the Stevie tour. Sad :(

[GateandGarden]

Hey y'all. We just got our power back. That was a bitch, but I have no room to complain, considering how it is for people in Orleans, Jefferson, St. Bernard, and other parishes. I'm glad Nancy let us know that Kristin evacuated. I'm still concerned about some people I know who live in and around New Orleans. It could have been worse, but it certainly isn't good.

[GypsySorcerer]

Hey y'all. We just got our power back. That was a bitch, but I have no room to complain, considering how it is for people in Orleans, Jefferson, St. Bernard, and other parishes. I'm glad Nancy let us know that Kristin evacuated. I'm still concerned about some people I know who live in and around New Orleans. It could have been worse, but it certainly isn't good.

Thanks for checking in and letting us know you're okay. I've been watching the news all day. :( All of you living in that area, please be careful.

[DavidMn]

Hey y'all. We just got our power back. That was a bitch, but I have no room to complain, considering how it is for people in Orleans, Jefferson, St. Bernard, and other parishes. I'm glad Nancy let us know that Kristin evacuated. I'm still concerned about some people I know who live in and around New Orleans. It could have been worse, but it certainly isn't good.
I'm real glad you made it through ok. Good to hear :angel:

[GateandGarden]

Thanks y'all. :)

[Mad4stevie]

I just found out that my boyfriend, through his job at Penn State University, got emergency funding to go down and study the crisis management aspect of this hurricane (his Ph.D. dissertation was in hurricane crisis management). So it appears that I might hear some interesting information from "the inside".

It certainly looks bad, especially the picture of the superdome! I had no idea that the roof had blown off that much.

[amber]

I just found out that my boyfriend, through his job at Penn State University, got emergency funding to go down and study the crisis management aspect of this hurricane (his Ph.D. dissertation was in hurricane crisis management). So it appears that I might hear some interesting information from "the inside".

It certainly looks bad, especially the picture of the superdome! I had no idea that the roof had blown off that much.

That will be really cool, heather!!! :nod:


I just watched a pet rescue thing, it said this one place rescued over 1000 pets. It showed videos of all these dogs and cats swimming around, and a pic of a cat balancing on someone's chimney - broke my heart to think how many didn't make it...

[strandinthewind]

The boat woman and her family made it. It was, of course an 80 foot long, 110+ ton steel boat. Lucky her - though there is no way I would have done it.

[strandinthewind]

Bush his credit.

FEMA been great and the administration has worked closely with the D Gov. and the senior Senator from Louisiana, a D. W, in fact, signed the necessary paperwork early enough so the stuff could be there prior to the actual emergency. So, though I am no fan of his, I give him his props here - maybe he learned from his father's mishandling of Andrew.

[sara1998]

I watched on CNN a man being rescued by Coast Guard helicoptors. That was the first time I've cried on this one.

Hillary, glad to know you're OK. :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Hillary, glad to know you're OK. :xoxo::xoxo:.....

[strandinthewind]

I watched on CNN a man being rescued by Coast Guard helicoptors. That was the first time I've cried on this one.

Hillary, glad to know you're OK. :xoxo:

If those people on those roofs had a way out and stayed for the hell of it or were just being stubborn - they ought to have to pay the bill for that rescue. The reason I say this is their "choice" and subsequent rescue could cause the death of another less fortunate person who could not flee.

[BTFLCHLD]

i hope everyone is alright...i cant imagine running for my life...and then every possesion being swept away...i pray for everyone in katrinas path...and will make a contribution to redcross upon payday...i was really worried last night when they were herding into the arena...i was so afraid of a horrible catastrophy to the structure...i couldnt sleep. pls take care everyone my friend was swept away and killed during the california flood season and i know how much it hurts...be safe.

[Mad4stevie]

At least 50 deaths now reported for Harrison County, MS. :distress:

[Jessica Leigh]

wow. i used to visit my aunt and uncle in Gulf Port when i was a teenager. The waterfront was such a cool area with the casinos on the barges and the old plantation- like houses with the wrap- around porch. it's hard to believe that's all flooded and destroyed now.