Numbnuts Talk A Lot .... (which is what makes them look like numbnuts to begin with)

[David]

Retiree Ruth Carver of Sellersburg, Ind., said she disagrees with (Cindy) Sheehan’s protest. “I think her son would be ashamed of her,” said Carver, a Republican. “If I don’t like what’s going on, I can go to the polls every four years.” (www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9084651/)

[DavidMn]

Retiree Ruth Carver of Sellersburg, Ind., said she disagrees with (Cindy) Sheehan’s protest. “I think her son would be ashamed of her,” said Carver, a Republican. “If I don’t like what’s going on, I can go to the polls every four years.” (www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9084651/)
What a moron. Last I checked, this is a free country and Cindy Sheehan isnt advocating terrorist attacks.

[Jessica Leigh]

yeah but.... her son VOLUNTEERED.

i don't want to get into a political discussion as to whether this war is right or wrong... but i think this lady is nuts. her adult offspring voluntarily joined the military knowing he might be killed whether it's in a war in iraq or a war in canada or freakin' somewhere in south korea or in training (that's the part that would kill me- if someone tried to wake me up at 5 am with a bugle i would die)

Casey Sheehan happily joined the army and told his family that he liked it and said it was like boy scouts with guns. he wanted to defend his country and thought about a having a whole career in the military. I agree that he would be ashamed of what she is doing.

Peaceful protests against the war are acceptable and should continue if those people protesting really believe in what they are doing... but Cindy Sheehan is using her son's death in her protest against the war (if he had been drafted and taken against his will i would feel differently about this)... but THE MAN CHOSE TO GO. he wanted to go.

I sort of feel that his mother's tantrum is robbing him of his honor.

[BombaySapphire3]

yeah but.... her son VOLUNTEERED.

i don't want to get into a political discussion as to whether this war is right or wrong... but i think this lady is nuts. her adult offspring voluntarily joined the military knowing he might be killed whether it's in a war in iraq or a war in canada or freakin' somewhere in south korea or in training (that's the part that would kill me- if someone tried to wake me up at 5 am with a bugle i would die)

Casey Sheehan happily joined the army and told his family that he liked it and said it was like boy scouts with guns. he wanted to defend his country and thought about a having a whole career in the military. I agree that he would be ashamed of what she is doing.

Peaceful protests against the war are acceptable and should continue if those people protesting really believe in what they are doing... but Cindy Sheehan is using her son's death in her protest against the war (if he had been drafted and taken against his will i would feel differently about this)... but THE MAN CHOSE TO GO. he wanted to go.

I sort of feel that his mother's tantrum is robbing him of his honor.
Interesting post.one quick question for you though Jessica ..if you can answer it .Why are we ,the U.S. in Iraq and why should one single U.S. soldier give thier life for the reason I'm anxiously awaiting to hear?

[Mari]

If he actually called the army 'boyscouts with guns' I don't believe he knew what he was getting into :shocked:

[Sapphire Girl]

yeah but.... her son VOLUNTEERED.

i don't want to get into a political discussion as to whether this war is right or wrong... but i think this lady is nuts. her adult offspring voluntarily joined the military knowing he might be killed whether it's in a war in iraq or a war in canada or freakin' somewhere in south korea or in training (that's the part that would kill me- if someone tried to wake me up at 5 am with a bugle i would die)

Casey Sheehan happily joined the army and told his family that he liked it and said it was like boy scouts with guns. he wanted to defend his country and thought about a having a whole career in the military. I agree that he would be ashamed of what she is doing.

Peaceful protests against the war are acceptable and should continue if those people protesting really believe in what they are doing... but Cindy Sheehan is using her son's death in her protest against the war (if he had been drafted and taken against his will i would feel differently about this)... but THE MAN CHOSE TO GO. he wanted to go.

I sort of feel that his mother's tantrum is robbing him of his honor.

Great post Jessica Leigh. It should also be made known that Casey Sheehan re-upped.

[Sapphire Girl]

Interesting post.one quick question for you though Jessica ..if you can answer it .Why are we ,the U.S. in Iraq and why should one single U.S. soldier give thier life for the reason I'm anxiously awaiting to hear?
The U.S. is in Iraq having freed the Iraqi people from tyranny. Or is that only acceptable if a Democrat is in the White House?

[Sapphire Girl]

What a moron. Last I checked, this is a free country and Cindy Sheehan isnt advocating terrorist attacks.
True, but she has referred to the insurgents as freedom fighters. She even said to Chris Matthews in a Hardball interview that the U.S. shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan.

[Sapphire Girl]

Based on false information though.
And you know the exact date Casey Sheehan joined the military?

[dissention]

The U.S. is in Iraq having freed the Iraqi people from tyranny. Or is that only acceptable if a Democrat is in the White House?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:rolleyes:

[dissention]

True, but she has referred to the insurgents as freedom fighters. She even said to Chris Matthews in a Hardball interview that the U.S. shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan.

She's right. Going into Afghanistan in November of 2001 was quite pointless.

[dissention]

yeah but.... her son VOLUNTEERED.

i don't want to get into a political discussion as to whether this war is right or wrong... but i think this lady is nuts. her adult offspring voluntarily joined the military knowing he might be killed whether it's in a war in iraq or a war in canada or freakin' somewhere in south korea or in training (that's the part that would kill me- if someone tried to wake me up at 5 am with a bugle i would die)

Casey Sheehan happily joined the army and told his family that he liked it and said it was like boy scouts with guns. he wanted to defend his country and thought about a having a whole career in the military. I agree that he would be ashamed of what she is doing.

Peaceful protests against the war are acceptable and should continue if those people protesting really believe in what they are doing... but Cindy Sheehan is using her son's death in her protest against the war (if he had been drafted and taken against his will i would feel differently about this)... but THE MAN CHOSE TO GO. he wanted to go.

I sort of feel that his mother's tantrum is robbing him of his honor.

Lila Lipscomb's son volunteered and he was killed, should she be deprived of expressing her disgust or derided for expressing anger over her son dying because of lies that the US government told? Did her child and the child of Cindy Sheehan die for what they were told they were fighting for or did they die for other reasons? Volunteering to go doesn't mean **** if you're lied to about the reasons for going. I think the US government robbed both their sons of their honor when it signed their death warrants based on lies and misinformation.

[gldstwmn]

The campaign against Cindy Sheehan is being orchestrated by the same PR firm that orchestrated Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. :distress:
I cannot say enough about Mrs. Sheehan's decision to go to Crawford. It has finally brought the attention of the media to where it needs to be.

[gldstwmn]

yeah but.... her son VOLUNTEERED.


Oh honey. :distress: That is a talking point straight off the right wing propaganda machine. Most of these kids never thought they would be sent off to fight in a war. A lot of them are being kept over there way past their hitch by the insane stop loss policy. Also, there is the issue of the National Guard being over there. It's is highly unusual for those guys to be utilized out of country. I worry how them being away is going to effect the clean up of the disaster that is about to happen in New Orleans.
Mrs. Sheehan has one question for the president. He said that we were fighting for a noble cause in Iraq. She wants to know what that noble cause is. If my child's life was taken in an illegal, immoral war, as I think most of us know the war is now, I would ask the same question. He works for and is accountable to us, the American people.

[gldstwmn]

The U.S. is in Iraq having freed the Iraqi people from tyranny.

That's a good one. The "tyranny" of what? Electricty and running water?

[gldstwmn]

True, but she has referred to the insurgents as freedom fighters.

What do you think they are? Who do you think they are?

[gldstwmn]

She's right. Going into Afghanistan in November of 2001 was quite pointless.

Yes. It was. :) And we're really going to have probelms if we don't get the hell out of there soon too.

[Sapphire Girl]

Next in line is the US. They invade America, killing tens of thousands and freeing you all from tyranny. Expect to lose atleast someone you know but just remember it's for the greater good.
If the U.S. was like Iraq, you're damn straight I'd welcome an invasion to free me and my fellow citizens from tyranny and if my death helped facillitate my country's freedom, then good.

[Sapphire Girl]

She's right. Going into Afghanistan in November of 2001 was quite pointless.
Who would've ever guessed you'd say something like that.

[Sapphire Girl]

Lila Lipscomb's son volunteered and he was killed, should she be deprived of expressing her disgust or derided for expressing anger over her son dying because of lies that the US government told? Did her child and the child of Cindy Sheehan die for what they were told they were fighting for or did they die for other reasons? Volunteering to go doesn't mean **** if you're lied to about the reasons for going. I think the US government robbed both their sons of their honor when it signed their death warrants based on lies and misinformation.
Lila Lipscomb has the right to express her opinion. The parents of those killed in combat and who support the reasons we are there have the right to express their opinion, too. Don't you agree?

Now, regarding these so-called lies.. Why would the mission be called Operation Iraqi Freedom if it was solely about the WMDs?

U.S. soldier knocks on a door, which is opened by a Baathist party rapist/torturer.
U.S. soldier: "I'm looking for WMDs." He notices a young woman about to be raped and her husband about to be subjected to sulphuric acid. "What's going on here?"
Baathist party rapist/torturer: "This woman has said she does not like Saddam Hussein. So my men and I are going to rape her and cut out her tongue and pour this acid on her husband's face."
U.S. soldier: "I see. Mind if I look around for the WMDs?"
Baathist party rapist/torturer: "No. Go right ahead."
U.S. soldier looks around and is unable to find anything.
U.S. soldier: "I wasn't able to find anything but thanks for letting me look around. Good-bye."
He leaves as the cries and screams for help from the young couple fill the room.

[Sapphire Girl]

That's a good one. The "tyranny" of what? Electricty and running water?
If by electricity and running water you mean one of the devices utilized for torture, then YES!

[dissention]

Now, regarding these so-called lies.. Why would the mission be called Operation Iraqi Freedom if it was solely about the WMDs?

:laugh:

Do like the Bush Administration and use your imagination.

U.S. soldier knocks on a door, which is opened by a Baathist party rapist/torturer.
U.S. soldier: "I'm looking for WMDs." He notices a young woman about to be raped and her husband about to be subjected to sulphuric acid. "What's going on here?"
Baathist party rapist/torturer: "This woman has said she does not like Saddam Hussein. So my men and I are going to rape her and cut out her tongue and pour this acid on her husband's face."
U.S. soldier: "I see. Mind if I look around for the WMDs?"
Baathist party rapist/torturer: "No. Go right ahead."
U.S. soldier looks around and is unable to find anything.
U.S. soldier: "I wasn't able to find anything but thanks for letting me look around. Good-bye."
He leaves as the cries and screams for help from the young couple fill the room.

You must have forgotten that the first Shrub told the Iraqi's to revolt and when they were slaughtered in mass numbers for doing so, our country didn't do a single ****ing thing to help them. The fact that you can call us liberators is so utterly laughable when the truth is that we inflicted as much pain and horror on them as Saddam by being complacent and enabling him for so many years. This country doesn't lift a finger to help anyone unless it can benefit from doing so; Rwanda and Sudan prove as much. We never went in there to liberate the Iraqi's, that's delusional.

[Sapphire Girl]

Oh honey. :distress: That is a talking point straight off the right wing propaganda machine.
What? Casey Sheehan didn't volunteer? You mean that President Bush personally came over to all of these soldiers' homes, held a gun to their head and said "Join the military or I'll blow your brains out?"

Most of these kids never thought they would be sent off to fight in a war.
They knew very good and well that being sent off to fight in a war was a possibility.


Mrs. Sheehan has one question for the president. He said that we were fighting for a noble cause in Iraq. She wants to know what that noble cause is.
Mrs. Sheehan (or shall I say the soon-to-be ex Mrs. Sheehan) already answered that for herself after her first meeting with President Bush when she stated that he was sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqi people.

[gldstwmn]

If by electricity and running water you mean one of the devices utilized for torture, then YES!

All bluster and no facts, as usual.

[Sapphire Girl]

You must have forgotten that the first Shrub told the Iraqi's to revolt and when they were slaughtered in mass numbers for doing so, our country didn't do a single ****ing thing to help them.
I do remember and I was pissed at President George H.W. Bush for not telling the U.N. "**** you! We're finishing the job and taking Saddam out!" (I shudder to think if the U.N. had been in charge of WWII- "You can only get the Nazis out of all the countries they are occupying in Europe, but you have to stop when you get to Germany.")

The fact that you can call us liberators is so utterly laughable when the truth is that we inflicted as much pain and horror on them as Saddam by being complacent and enabling him for so many years.
And who, pray tell, was in the White House the majority of those years, from March 1991 to March 2003?

This country doesn't lift a finger to help anyone unless it can benefit from doing so;
You mean to tell me we freed Nazi-occupied Europe because we liked lederhosen?

Rwanda and Sudan prove as much.
Ah, but the U.N. is doing such a lovely job there.

[Sapphire Girl]

All bluster and no facts, as usual.
All bluster and no facts. Sounds like the liberals' mantra.

[gldstwmn]

If by electricity and running water you mean one of the devices utilized for torture, then YES!

You mean like what we did at Abu Gharib and Guantanamo Bay?

[gldstwmn]

Mrs. Sheehan (or shall I say the soon-to-be ex Mrs. Sheehan)

The soon to be ex Mrs. Sheehan and her husband decided to divorce before she ever went to Crawford so if you're trying to use that for some sort of character assasination, I'm afraid you'll have to find something else.

[gldstwmn]

I do remember and I was pissed at President George H.W. Bush for not telling the U.N. "**** you! We're finishing the job and taking Saddam out!"

All accounts wouldn't support that theory. Herbert Walker wouldn't have any problem with telling the UN **** you. Where do you think Junior learned it? General Schwarzkopf and others wisely advised him that going any further would put him in an unwinnable situation. Guess what? They were right.

[Sapphire Girl]

You mean like what we did at Abu Gharib and Guantanamo Bay?
If we did do such a thing, then that was wrong. In order to obtain information, we could have forced the prisoners to listen to Air America, but that would've been considered just as, if not more, diabolical.

[Sapphire Girl]

The soon to be ex Mrs. Sheehan and her husband decided to divorce before she ever went to Crawford so if you're trying to use that for some sort of character assasination, I'm afraid you'll have to find something else.
I'm well aware of that. Besides, Mrs. Sheehan doesn't need me to trash her character when she does such a good job on her own.

[GateandGarden]

All bluster and no facts. Sounds like the liberals' mantra.I would consider your viewpoint and I think that we need different viewpoints on this board, but then you ruin it for me when you say things like that.

[gldstwmn]

If we did do such a thing, then that was wrong.
People have plead guilty.

[gldstwmn]

I'm well aware of that.

Then why make reference to it?

[BombaySapphire3]

The U.S. is in Iraq having freed the Iraqi people from tyranny. Or is that only acceptable if a Democrat is in the White House?
Very enlightening !And all this time I thought the justification for invading was to find those pesky WMDS!

[David]

What a moron. Last I checked, this is a free country and Cindy Sheehan isnt advocating terrorist attacks.Not only that, but Mrs. Carver is a numbnuts because of her implication that peaceful protest is inappropriate or condemnable. Her numbnuts comment is: If you want to complain, wait until election time ...


WHICH IS SO NUMBNUTS AS TO BE PRACTICALLY NONVERBALIZABLE!!

[SteveMacD]

I do remember and I was pissed at President George H.W. Bush for not telling the U.N. "**** you! We're finishing the job and taking Saddam out!"
Maybe because the folks around him were telling him not to go that far. Because, many of those around H.W. didn't think we should have gone into Iraq this time around.
(I shudder to think if the U.N. had been in charge of WWII- "You can only get the Nazis out of all the countries they are occupying in Europe, but you have to stop when you get to Germany.")
Honestly, that's the only reason we got involved in WWII. We didn't care about the Holocaust, we were scared that Germany's expansion plans included the United States. Remember, there was that telegram we intercepted that was sent to Mexico propositioning them to join the Nazi cause. There were rumors about the Holocaust, but many in the USA didn't take those threats seriously. In any event, if you feel so strongly about what happened to the people of Iraq, why don't you feel as strong about those living under evil dictators in many African and South American nations? Surely what happened in Rwanda is a black eye on the Western world. EIGHT MILLION people died, and we let it happen. The only logical reason as to why we went into Iraq was oil. The other stuff if flowery BS that had nothing to do with the mission. And, if the flowery stuff WAS the reason, then Bush lied when he said he was not interested in nation building.
You mean to tell me we freed Nazi-occupied Europe because we liked lederhosen?
We freed Nazi-occupied Europe because we didn't want a Nazi-occupied America. Japan attacked us, and we recovered a telegram from Germany encouraging Mexico to become part of the Axis. So, our going into Germany wasn't as nobel as it could have been. Just think how many lives would have been saved had we not waited three years before going into Europe.

[SteveMacD]

Er.......do they only teach you history up until America arrives?
Basically, yeah. It's not always the case. I personally got lucky and had a few history professors that were actually worth a damn, but it seems that is not the norm.

[David]

Basically, yeah. It's not always the case. I personally got lucky and had a few history professors that were actually worth a damn, but it seems that is not the norm.This is to everyone: Don't depend on the schools for your schooling. Do your own reading. Read history, mathematics, physics, literature . . . everything you can or want to. The schools have NOTHING to do with education. Schools are government bureaucracies, agents of social engineering, self-perpetuating machines that run on their own friction.

[Serrart]

I do remember and I was pissed at President George H.W. Bush for not telling the U.N. "**** you! We're finishing the job and taking Saddam out!" (I shudder to think if the U.N. had been in charge of WWII- "You can only get the Nazis out of all the countries they are occupying in Europe, but you have to stop when you get to Germany.")

But he didn't did he? He wanted other Countries to go to war because this wasn't a war done mainly for the benefit of oil companies, this was a war all the world had to fight, and some idiots even believed it (my Countries among them), so he needed a big lie to give the excuse to the others to join (obviously the real reason was not to disappoint US). After all that war was not because US was seriously risking to lose its most important base in Middle East (and now even more), and needed another one in that part of the Country. It was not because he hadn't been able to find Osama Bin Laden and had to sell something to American people (and a war works so well); this was not to scare Iran off, the real enemy, but untouchable, because Khatami had an open dialogue with European countries. No, the only option was the renewed enemy, once best friend in the region, someone that before the embargos and the war in the '90s, was backed from US for years, alllowing him decades of tortures. Bu you know, he was the only one easy to be kicked off.
If he wanted to fight a dictator he had plenty in Africa to choose from (nah... not profitable, and regimes in Africa usually have economic pacts with multinationals, so...); well, there was that nice man in North Korea who also has the atomic bomb. Yes, but you don't touch a Communist regime... China could be upset by that, and nobody wants to upset China.
And there's that other gentleman in Pakistan a Country where terrorists do their holidays... oh yes, but Pakistan is friendly to Us too, and it's a good unofficial place to watch what's happening in the region.

Anyway, why to be so polemic, this war worked so well:
now there is (and there wasn't) an Al Qaeda branch in Iraq
Hundreds of people are killed everyday and among them many US soldiers
There have been bomb attacks in the European Countries who supported this war, and the others are expecting one too.
In Iran now there's a conservative government, that started again nuclear experiments.
Osama Bin Laden is still free as a bird, and counting everyday more members...

Romy

[David]

Wasn't it adopted from Germany where it was used to keep younger people out of the workforce? Not education in general obviously, but the particular method.Yes, the American school system is built on & adapted from various principles of psychology & sociology promulgated by German intellectuals like Wilhelm Wundt.

The guiding impetus has always been socialization, or social engineering, which is the complete opposite of the classical notion of education (habits of mind which foster not certain behaviors or "responses" but the ability & inclination to distinguish logic from illogic).

Imagine if every single voting American could, with skill & thoroughness, distinguish logic from illogic. Every last politician in the country would be grating cheese for drive-thru tacos, & the advertising industry (which consists in selling people junk they don't need) would crumble.

http://www.lilliput-information.com/wundt.html

[GateandGarden]

Er.......do they only teach you history up until America arrives? America involved itself when it was threatened, it not only stood back as the Holocaust took place but at the beginning Hitler was admired as a leader. You took a very odd angle of argument there seeing as America did more or less what you said. Besides which, a body that was formed after and because of an event being in control of the said event, that's quite something.If you don't go to college, you really don't get the whole picture around here. Everything before that, from my experiences, seems to be just trying to force blind patriotism onto people.

[GateandGarden]

This is to everyone: Don't depend on the schools for your schooling. Do your own reading. Read history, mathematics, physics, literature . . . everything you can or want to. The schools have NOTHING to do with education. Schools are government bureaucracies, agents of social engineering, self-perpetuating machines that run on their own friction.I think that's a really unfair generalization. I have respect for many of the departments at my university. There are a few that are jokes but mostly I consider it a great academic institution. And we don't read books that were published by the university and/or its employees only.

[David]

I think that's a really unfair generalization. I have respect for many of the departments at my university. There are a few that are jokes but mostly I consider it a great academic institution. And we don't read books that were published by the university and/or its employees only.I was really referring to mandatory schooling levels: grades 1 through 12.

The academic & research aspects of typical universities are not answerable to government agendas the way that grade schools & high schools are (think school boards). University-level academics are relatively free to pursue research & peer-review it. I was really referring to the social engineering aspects of public schools.

[GateandGarden]

I was really referring to mandatory schooling levels: grades 1 through 12.

The academic & research aspects of typical universities are not answerable to government agendas the way that grade schools & high schools are (think school boards). University-level academics are relatively free to pursue research & peer-review it. I was really referring to the social engineering aspects of public schools.Oh, I didn't realize that. In that case, I couldn't agree more. I don't know how people who plan to teach history can stand to do grades 1 through 12. They tell so many lies, particuarly in history, in my opinion. I think the only level I could teach it on and not be totally miserable is the college level.

[Jessica Leigh]

Interesting post.one quick question for you though Jessica ..if you can answer it .Why are we ,the U.S. in Iraq and why should one single U.S. soldier give thier life for the reason I'm anxiously awaiting to hear?

i have no idea.... i never said i was FOR the war- i said a grown- up 24 yr old voluntarily went to fight for his country because it was what he wanted to do and it upsets me that his mother is throwing a tantrum about the whole thing. i understand grieving when a family member dies- we all have done it many times- and i am sorry that she lost her son. do you think Cindy Sheehan would be doing all of this if her son hadn't died? would she be camping outside of the president's ranch protesting the war if Casey was alive? probably not.

like i said before- i am completely in support of peaceful protests and believe everyone has the right to free speech... Casey CHOSE to go and died honorably for his country... i don't think his mother is doing what Casey would have wanted for his legacy.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

i have no idea.... i never said i was FOR the war- i said a grown- up 24 yr old voluntarily went to fight for his country because it was what he wanted to do and it upsets me that his mother is throwing a tantrum about the whole thing. i understand grieving when a family member dies- we all have done it many times- and i am sorry that she lost her son. do you think Cindy Sheehan would be doing all of this if her son hadn't died? would she be camping outside of the president's ranch protesting the war if Casey was alive? probably not.

like i said before- i am completely in support of peaceful protests and believe everyone has the right to free speech... Casey CHOSE to go and died honorably for his country... i don't think his mother is doing what Casey would have wanted for his legacy.

Very good points (I tend to stay away from political discussions on here...and most everyone knows why...haha). I just thought I would say that I agree with you and you bring up very valid points.

[Jessica Leigh]

Lila Lipscomb's son volunteered and he was killed, should she be deprived of expressing her disgust or derided for expressing anger over her son dying because of lies that the US government told? Did her child and the child of Cindy Sheehan die for what they were told they were fighting for or did they die for other reasons? Volunteering to go doesn't mean **** if you're lied to about the reasons for going. I think the US government robbed both their sons of their honor when it signed their death warrants based on lies and misinformation.


come on- we all know at least a bit of US history and know that the government does what they want and tells people what they want them to think. those soldiers knew that they might be forced to do something they didn't want to do or didn't know the reason for or whatever... they also knew that they might be killed wherever the government sent them for whatever reason. for every person who enlists there is an excellent chance that there will be a new president before he/she finishes the time they signed on for in the military. there is also a decent chance that the new president will be from a different political party than when the person enlisted. so... there is a good chance that during the person's duty in the military, situations with the US and other countries could change and a war might occur. people who join the military KNOW that they could very well go to war for something they believe in, or something a stupid new president has decided is a good enough reason to go to war. this is why i never joined (and the money they offered for college was VERY tempting)

i am very sad for the families of those who have died in this war and yes i do believe that they have the right to mourn and be angry.

[Jessica Leigh]

So instead of being angry at the manipulation that took her child's life, she should honour her child's suicide? If the fact that he was manipulated is not relevant and he just wanted to die for his country for any reason, existent or not, then isn't that basically what it is, suicide? Of course I don't think it is, he like everyone else was sent based on lies.

honor her child's suicide? i don't quite see it that way. she should respect and honor the fact that her son died doing something he really believed in and wanted to do... even if the rest of us think it was for all of the wrong reasons.


I also don't agree that they know they could be sent to war based on any reason. That's a load of crap, and if it's true then a change ought to be taught because when one enters the military one should be able to know that their lives will never be put in a situation where they could be compromised unless it is for a very good reason. You can't toy with people's lives and tell them they were in the military, they should have expected that. They should not have to expect that and they should be very angry if they're dealt that.

sorry but the US is different from Australia. somehow, we seem to get our noses into everyone's business and we end up sending troops somewhere. for whatever reason. according to Australia's department of defense homepage there are currently only around 1500 Australian Defence Force personnel deployed outside of Australia. and when was the last time you guys had any sort of conflict with another country where blood was shed? (not counting the crap the US drags you into) it seems that you are accustomed to a country where they DON'T put anyone's lives into a situation where they could be compromised unless it is for a very good reason. unfortunately, when i hear about someone i know enlisting i wonder if i'll ever see them again. i almost expect some sort of bad news. i guess, as an american, i'm getting pretty accustomed to being messed with and i assume that anyone who joins our military would know that they might die.

[Jessica Leigh]

On a side note, if you go back in history your statement is completely innaccurate.
which statement?

[SuzeQuze]

I would consider your viewpoint and I think that we need different viewpoints on this board, but then you ruin it for me when you say things like that.

Because it is akin to name calling, which is the lowest point to go in a discussion. Liberal means open-minded and generous but it has been hijacked by right-wing media personalities and made into a dirty word. It is not.

Casey did not sign up to die. He signed up to do something productive with his life, this is why most young men sign up. They rarely think they will be the ones who to go war.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Casey did not sign up to die. He signed up to do something productive with his life, this is why most young men sign up. They rarely think they will be the ones who to go war.

And that is very true, however I think the point that she was trying to make was that even though they may "hope" that they don't have to go to war, they know that their is that possibility...and that going to war is something that could happen while they are in the military.

[DavidMn]

True, but she has referred to the insurgents as freedom fighters. She even said to Chris Matthews in a Hardball interview that the U.S. shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan.
Oh really, I hadnt heard that. Is thats true, thats totally wrong of her to say that. :distress:

[Sugar]

The woman has a right to protest the war. So she is. Frankly I don't see why that isn't the end of the conversation. What her son did or didn't do is irrelevent. If people to choose to see it as her disgracing her son's memory it's because people choose to see it that way.

I don't see it that way. I see a mother grieving. I choose to cut her some slack.

[DavidMn]

The woman has a right to protest the war. So she is. Frankly I don't see why that isn't the end of the conversation. What her son did or didn't do is irrelevent. If people to choose to see it as her disgracing her son's memory it's because people choose to see it that way.

I don't see it that way. I see a mother grieving. I choose to cut her some slack.
That's a good point. I hope I dont sound too wishy-washy :rolleyes:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ok, what is up with all the empty seats? lol

Was no one there? (http://www.sweetness-light.com/?p=54)

[Jessica Leigh]

That bit. You didn't specify how recent.

the point of that section of my post is that it seems that the US has dragged itself into a lot of bull**** conflicts that just seem really wrong. I know you must agree (in addition to many other ledgies from outside of the US who never cease to remind us here that our government is full of lies and insinuate that we should feel like **** if we feel any sort of patriotism) and pardon me for assuming that you all (outside the US) have more faith in your own governments to take care of you. i said "except the stuff the US drags you into" not to discount Australia's military's efforts, but to make a point that it was OUR fault that our sneaky government put both of our respective militaries' soldiers into danger. I don't think Australia has ever started **** with a country for stupid reasons and then dragged the US into it only to have thousands of soldiers die as a result of Australia's lies.

[SuzeQuze]

That photo really could have been taken at any time. I'm not sure what it's proving. That there is no protest? All it really proves is that at some point in time there were quite a few seats and that's about it.
...

Agreed, and most Americans support Sheehan's right to protest. I don't believe anyone is lying about the amount of people down there. Also, Cindy did not ASK anyone to go. I feel sorry for people who have to pick on a grieving mom to make themselves feel right and superior.