Gold Dust Tour DVDs! [Archive]

catinthedark

08-19-2005, 10:41 AM

:( that's a much better reason than my clothes buying :( That sucks....still no end in sight??

Management refuses to come back to the bargaining table. Our union is still ready to talk. I believe they'll keep us out for at least 2 weeks before they resume talks. They need to make sure we're suffering a bit. rumours on the lines are that we'll be out anywhere from 3 weeks to seven months.

The worst part of all this - we are getting no footage of the historic Gaza pullout, or any other major story in the world. We will never have any tape of this in our archives. That is the biggest shame of all for a public broadcaster.

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 10:57 AM

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 11:04 AM

I'll probably never see these DVDs, but I admit I do find it odd. I'd prefer to just go to two Stevie shows and enjoy them, then go to a dozen be worried about having to film them all. It makes me wonder what his motives are personally :shrug:
It's a fair question to ask IMO, esp when what he is doing is essentially illegal.

I think his motives are for fans to enjoy great DVD's personally, although I can't speak for him. His DVD's are the best Stevie/Fmac bootleg videos out there...esp. the ones he has done in this Gold Dust Tour...He's totally reliable, and a great guy and has been very generous in adding extras from time to time, etc...I don't think he has any evil motive or anything. If I was brave enough I would do it...Now if you are totally against bootlegs in general, that's a whole other topic that has been discussed way too many times.

Chris

David

08-19-2005, 11:21 AM

I think his motives are for fans to enjoy great DVD's personallyThen you're naive, Chris. His motive is a monetary one.
His DVD's are the best Stevie/Fmac bootleg videos out there...esp. the ones he has done in this Gold Dust Tour...He's totally reliable, and a great guy and has been very generous in adding extras from time to time, etc...I don't think he has any evil motive or anything.A monetary motive isn't an evil motive. It's just a . . . monetary motive.

I haven't seen Bill's DVDs because I have no interest in Stevie's current career, but Bill did a great job of baking & transferring all the reels, which finally seeped their way into all our individual collections. Everything sounded great, & many of us are grateful to Bill for taking such care with those reels -- for being a detail-oriented guy (unlike Devilwoman, for example). But Bill is a businessman, Chris. He's in business. He's a bootlegger. I love bootleggers, Chris. I have always bought & traded bootlegs of Fleetwood Mac. But let's not start redefining "bootlegger" as "someone who gives away concert recordings out of the goodness of his heart." Bootleggers are businesspeople, plainly & simply. The fact that they supply something you want is irrelevant. Chevron supplies me with gas for my automobile, but I don't call the folks in charge of Chevron to thank them for giving me gasoline -- I buy it from them because I want it.

Same with Bill. If Bill were selling something I wanted, I'd quite possibly buy it from him. I have no problems with buying from a businessman who taped the shows himself & wants to sell them. But Bill isn't an actual fan -- he's in business. Why reinvent words, Chris?
If I was brave enough I would do it.But actual fans have for decades been doing what Bill is now doing -- fans like Torri, for example. Going to huge numbers of shows & recording them. I've recorded several shows myself & traded them with other fans.

That isn't something that only bootleggers do, Chris.

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 11:22 AM

Is this guy reliable? I'm about to order my LA show...
I guess I have very strong opinions on people who make money off Bootlegs.
It is a criminal offense for starters. And Stevie's opinion on this subject matter has been well documented. It truly upsets her..and knowing that her father just passed makes it all the more..not cool. If she wanted you to have copies of this show..she will release it on DVD herself..and make the money on it..since it is her work! IMO.....

David

08-19-2005, 11:25 AM

Of course he loves StevieThen that's something recent. He didn't used to be a Stevie Nicks fan. He was just a guy who found himself in a circumstance of owning all those reels.

If he is now a Stevie Nicks fan, I'll take your word for it. I don't know the guy personally -- for all I know, maybe all these shows he has seen have turned him on to Stevie's music.

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 11:25 AM

Regardless of what Bill is, I still see no problem with it, and I do not know that he is not a fan...Maybe you know him on a personal level, but I do not. I dont claim to know if he is, but I had heard he was. You can be a fan AND a businessman at the same time, and that may well be what he is..I do know that in my correspondence with him, and his descriptions of the DVDS and answers to my questions, he has described things in the DVD's that only a fan would appreciate..

As I said before, all that really needs to be done is one person buy them and trade them for everyone...so REALLY it doesnt have to be that big of a business

Chris

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 11:26 AM

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 11:28 AM

I guess I have very strong opinions on people who make money off Bootlegs.
It is a criminal offense for starters. And Stevie's opinion on this subject matter has been well documented. It truly upsets her..and knowing that her father just passed makes it all the more..not cool. If she wanted you to have copies of this show..she will release it on DVD herself..and make the money on it..since it is her work! IMO.....

First of all I dont think the passing of her father has anything to do with bootlegs,but it was quite nice of you to add that in there, I'm sure to add some kind of guilt effect to your post..If you dont like bootlegs, guess what don't buy them, don't trade for them--that's your choice..but don't come on here trying to relate the death of her father to bootleg sales in some attempt to make us feel guilty

Chris

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 11:30 AM

I guess I have very strong opinions on people who make money off Bootlegs.
It is a criminal offense for starters. And Stevie's opinion on this subject matter has been well documented. It truly upsets her..and knowing that her father just passed makes it all the more..not cool. If she wanted you to have copies of this show..she will release it on DVD herself..and make the money on it..since it is her work! IMO.....

Also to add she has never mentioned bootlegs of concerts, so you are ASSUMING it upsets her..She has mentioned being upset that many of her unreleased songs were leaked in bootleg form, because they were stolen from her at one point...but she has never mentioned bootleg concerts

Chris

dissention

08-19-2005, 11:55 AM

Maybe one day Bill will be a real fan & start trading.

My advice is not to bet on it.

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:07 PM

While I understand that he is making a little profit, he does spend a hell of a lot of time going to all these shows just for the sake of filming them..Of course he loves Stevie, but he can't 100% enjoy the show because of his great DVDs...I see no problem with him getting a little something back. Afterall, just get together with some friends, and all go in on it...and then make copies for everyone.. If you want to trade them, trade them...I love how everyone is quick to use the term "a REAL FAN"

Chris

The real question is why people go after those who sell Stevie boots on eBay so viciously when they obviously have no qualms about lining Bill's pockets by buying the bootlegs he sells? The hypocrisy that's so evident amongst the Stevie/FM "trading community" is gag-inducing. You don't see Brian going to Stevie shows, taping them, and then telling other fans that if they want to hear it, they must send him money. He's honorable, this dude isn't. If people want to buy his bootlegs so that he can make a quick buck, that's fine. But when I decide that I want to sell off all of my Stevie boots on eBay for $20 a pop, don't any of you people who buy these DVDs, and defend the selling of them, dare to bitch at me about it.

StevieNicksEO17

08-19-2005, 12:07 PM

I don't know why fans get in such a huff about other fans making a few bucks. It's not any of these fans are making a substantial amount of money off these recordings, surely nothing to retire on. The other thing that people always overlook are the costs associated with recording shows...travel costs, accommodations, tickets, hardware, software, media, etc. If a fan makes a few bucks after all the overhead is taken care of, so what? What happened to "a few bucks for your trouble." And as Chris said, once one person gets ahold of a copy, fans will start trading it.

I don't see what the problem with it is either. If one of my shows were in there, I would be all over it like white on rice. 20 bucks for a show that I loved and never want to forget? Sure, why not. This world is completly about money, and that's how he makes some extra bucks. What can you do?

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:12 PM

The other thing that people always overlook are the costs associated with recording shows...travel costs, accommodations, tickets, hardware, software, media, etc. If a fan makes a few bucks after all the overhead is taken care of, so what?

I see. Bootleggers should not only get their travel, accomodations, AND concert tickets paid for by other fans, but they should also make a profit after said costs are taken care of? I'm no twat and all I can smell at the moment is the pungent aroma of bull**** nipping at my nostrils. You don't hear the people who tape shows and then freely give them to other fans whining about "costs." Hell, the last time I checked, Bill wasn't even much of a Stevie or Fleetwood Mac fan. Now he's going around taping their shows to sell to other fans? Golly, what a swell guy. :rolleyes:

As David said, Bill is a businessman.

seeker007nmss

08-19-2005, 12:27 PM

It's a personal choice. People do things that are considered "illegal" by some all the time. I don't think there is anyone here who has never driven above the speed limit - atleast once. As far a legality and taking the high road, (no pun intended), I believe Ms. Nicks might have done a few illegal narcotics herself. was it right? Should she have done it? It's a personal choice. The money she lost from bootleggers - would some of it go to that habit? possibly. In a logic sort of way, you could say that by buying bootlegs keeps Stevie from doing illegal things also. (I know, but you see the point). Each their own. If you want them, get them. If you don't, let it go.

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:27 PM

Have you met Bill? It's easy for some fans to judge when they are remote from the situation.

I don't need to meet the guy in order to say that I find his selling of bootleg DVDs for $20 a pop to be downright ****ty and that his motives are monetary. If he was concerned about getting the stuff out there for fans to enjoy, as others have implied, he wouldn't feel the need to charge those fans for the luxury of enjoying it. Simple as that. It's what separates the honorable tapers (an oxymoron, I know) from the dishonorable ones. Once money exchanges hands, things turn to ****.

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:30 PM

As far as I can see, you basing a lot of your argument on what David said. That's hearsay, last time I checked.

Not at all. It's a known fact that he isn't much of a Stevie fan, unless things have changed since he started with those master reels. I was simply agreeing with David's assertion that Bill is in it for monetary purposes.

seeker007nmss

08-19-2005, 12:36 PM

I don't need to meet the guy in order to say that I find his selling of bootleg DVDs for $20 a pop to be downright ****ty and that his motives are monetary. If he was concerned about getting the stuff out there for fans to enjoy, as others have implied, he wouldn't feel the need to charge those fans for the luxury of enjoying it. Simple as that. It's what separates the honorable tapers (an oxymoron, I know) from the dishonorable ones. Once money exchanges hands, things turn to ****.

Diss, why do you care? If you don't like it - don't support it. Yes, he wants the cash. Who cares? There are alot of things I don't like out there, but they aren't going away anytime soon. There are people who sell crack on the streets. I don't like it, I don't buy it, nothing will stop it (Prohabition didn't work for alchohol - not going to work for drugs either). If someone wants to waste their cash on it... so be it. Bootleggers and copiers have been around forever, (The first printing presses and the copying of Church writs - comes to mind). Accept that these things are not going away anytime soon. :nod: :wavey:

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:46 PM

Actually you were piggybacking on what David said, which you often do. :xoxo:

I've sold CDs in the past (I've also been called a "nazi," "tyrant" and a "bootlegger.") I guess I'm dishonest too! Does that make me a bad fan as well. :laugh:

No, I don't judge what makes someone a fan or what doesn't, I could care less. And, yes, I do think making a profit off of someone else's work like that is dishonorable, especially when the Stevie "trading community" so often rails against it. It's ****ty, but do what you want.

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:50 PM

Diss, why do you care? If you don't like it - don't support it. Yes, he wants the cash. Who cares? There are alot of things I don't like out there, but they aren't going away anytime soon. There are people who sell crack on the streets. I don't like it, I don't buy it, nothing will stop it (Prohabition didn't work for alchohol - not going to work for drugs either). If someone wants to waste their cash on it... so be it. Bootleggers and copiers have been around forever, (The first printing presses and the copying of Church writs - comes to mind).

Comparing bootlegs to crack is ludicrous.

Accept that these things are not going away anytime soon. :nod: :wavey:

I accept it perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean I have to like people trying to make a buck off of the artists they say they love. Trade bootlegs freely, but don't try to make money off of them. It's not right.

Nixxxed

08-19-2005, 12:52 PM

Actually you were piggybacking on what David said, which you often do. :xoxo:

I've sold CDs in the past (I've also been called a "nazi," "tyrant" and a "bootlegger.") I guess I'm dishonest too! Does that make me a bad fan as well. :laugh:
I have a few honest questions, Daniel. And I've told you several times how much I love your site and the work you do there, so I hope you'll keep that in mind.

Why are you advertising these DVDs here, instead of on your site? I just checked your site, and see nothing about them (unless it's buried somewhere I haven't discovered). And why are you doing this Bill person's "dirty work"?

The reason I ask is because, bottom line, the bootlegs are illegal. Not that I care - if I had money I might buy a few. But it does somewhat disturb me that you're using Marty & Lis's forum to advertise them, rather than your own. If the hammer came down, would that make them accessories? And what would that do to this place? See what I'm saying...?

Again, I don't care one way or another who's doing the taping, duplicating, buying, or selling. However, IMHO, if that's what you choose to do, I just think there should be a big shameless banner headline on Stevie-Nicks.info announcing them.

dissention

08-19-2005, 12:52 PM

seeker007nmss

08-19-2005, 12:55 PM

Comparing bootlegs to crack is ludicrous.
.

Both exchanging cash for an illegal product.

David

08-19-2005, 01:14 PM

I don't know why fans get in such a huff about other fans making a few bucks.Nothing against Bill, per se, from my vantage point, Daniel. The only time I sort of grin or groan is when bootleggers are painted as "spreading the joy for the sheer joy of spreading the joy" type of people. I'm just saying a business is a business, as distinct from "I taped this show -- want to set up a trade?" That's a different activity from selling. Fans can:

1. Do one.
2. Do the other.
3. Do both.
4. Do neither.

But they are separate, distinct activities.

LiquidBlue5000

08-19-2005, 01:20 PM

I see. Bootleggers should not only get their travel, accomodations, AND concert tickets paid for by other fans, but they should also make a profit after said costs are taken care of? I'm no twat and all I can smell at the moment is the pungent aroma of bull**** nipping at my nostrils. You don't hear the people who tape shows and then freely give them to other fans whining about "costs." Hell, the last time I checked, Bill wasn't even much of a Stevie or Fleetwood Mac fan. Now he's going around taping their shows to sell to other fans? Golly, what a swell guy. :rolleyes:

As David said, Bill is a businessman.

ummm, not for anything... but there would be about 3 bootlegs for this entire 2005 tour if not for Bill and myself risking our asses recording this stuff for ourselves and for the fans... so quit your bitching, thanks :wavey:

.. there i go again, patting myself on the back :rolleyes:

David

08-19-2005, 01:27 PM

Well, my friend, you can't believe everything you read. I've met and hung out with Bill and he is a fan. He even went to my Stevie party in 2001. Tell me, how is it a "well known fact" that he is not a fan? Or are you basing that solely on his current practices?Speaking for myself here (obviously, since that's the only password I have to this board), when I said Bill wasn't a fan, I wasn't basing that on what he does with his concert videos. I thought I was just providing an empirical fact -- something that Bill himself wouldn't deny.

I was told back in the days of the reels first being done that Bill was not a Stevie Nicks fan. He just happened to come into possession of the reels, through a series of circumstances. If he has been turned on to Stevie & her music since that time, lovely for him!

To clarify my perspective:

1. I have nothing against people who tape concerts & sell them. This includes Bill.

2. I harbor intense disgust for people who grab taped concerts for free off a Web site or a CD-R & then turn around & sell it. This includes you-know-whom on eBay.

3. Selling is different from trading. When you sell, you bring money in -- whether it's thousands of dollars a year or a few cents. When you trade, you swap something you have for something you don't have. Maybe it's the old Woodstock hippie in me, but traders spread the love. Sellers sell the product.

4. Matsumoto is still the best of the best, the wildest of the wild hearts.

dissention

08-19-2005, 01:35 PM

ummm, not for anything... but there would be about 3 bootlegs for this entire 2005 tour if not for Bill and myself risking our asses recording this stuff for ourselves and for the fans... so quit your bitching, thanks :wavey:

.. there i go again, patting myself on the back :rolleyes:

It makes no difference to me if there is three, six, or zero bootlegs from this tour out there. I can live without bootlegs. If you had bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I said you and your efforts were honorable due to the fact that you tape the shows and then share them freely with other fans. You don't ask for money in return for your bootlegs and that's to be admired when you could easily go right to eBay and make some dough. Bill does charge money and I, personally, think it's ****ty. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on bootlegs and what is right and what isn't, my opinion is that they should not be used to make money. Trade them or keep them to yourself, it's all good. Only when you try to make money off of them does it become tacky.

LiquidBlue5000

08-19-2005, 01:36 PM

To clarify my perspective:

1. I have nothing against people who tape concerts & sell them. This includes Bill.

2. I harbor intense disgust for people who grab taped concerts for free off a Web site or a CD-R & then turn around & sell it. This includes you-know-whom on eBay.

3. Selling is different from trading. When you sell, you bring money in -- whether it's thousands of dollars a year or a few cents. When you trade, you swap something you have for something you don't have. Maybe it's the old Woodstock hippie in me, but traders spread the love. Sellers sell the product.

I could not agree more with this... if someone is going to risk their ass to record a show or several shows in the case of Bill, in my opinion he has the right to sell that show.. it's HIS show.. it's not as if Stevie is putting out a similar show and charging for it as well... once the concert is over, it's over.. there is no more money to be made for Stevie and her people..
If that recorder feels he/she should be compensated for it, then that is their choice... again, it is their product.. they can do what they want with it..

Nixxxed

08-19-2005, 01:38 PM

Well, I don't see it as "dirty work".

:lol:

That's why I put that in quotes - for lack of a better term... Again, I don't care about the bootlegs, especially since we'll probably never see anything of the sort officially released - I'm just jaded that way after nearly 30 years of frustrating fandom.

But using others' forums/bandwidth/yadda yadda yadda instead of your own to promote these things just seems suspect. (Again, lack of a better term - I haven't reached my Recommended Daily Allowance of caffeine today ... :laugh: )

But I'm not hating, and no hard feelings. :xoxo: Since you have registered users on your site, maybe set up a Bootlovers e-mail list? Just an idea... (And yes, I would sign up. ;) )

Cour

08-19-2005, 01:41 PM

They're not currently on my site.

I'm curious as to why you thought it was okay to advertise them here, where it is against the rules, but you didn't think to put even a mention of the DVD's on your own site?

As for posting on my own site, I've thought about it. But the Fix and Stevie's label monitor my site constantly. FleetwoodMac.com is actually hotlinking off my site. You'll notice that the downloads are still there (and being updated constantly), but they are a lot harder to find.

Again, I'm curious what difference it would make to your site if the Nicksfix or WB found that on your site? What action do you think they would take against you that you think they would not take against The Penguin?

I'm assuming you thought it wouldn't make any difference if they found it on The Penguin since you posted it here. I'm just interested in your reasoning as to why it wouldn't matter to Marty and Lis, especially since there's a specific rule against this.

You know, that's a good idea :laugh:

So, should we expect to see a big beautiful banner advertising these DVD's on your site in the next few days? ;)

AliceLover

08-19-2005, 01:45 PM

I hope I can shed some light on this argument.

I chipped in 20 dollars:

#1. I had the money
#2. I wanted these dvds for my collection
#3. I wanted them for my own enjoyment

I dont care how I get them I just want them. Call me greedy but whatever. Diss do you even want these dvds? Well if thats what your concerned about then wait and then trade for them. I just see this as a situation if you want them bad enough you can get them! If fans think this is wrong, big whoop, its not going away like Jim said. I also think theres nothing wrong with making a few bucks back. Im glad Bill taped this, now I can see If Anyone Falls and R&R from Vegas for the last show. Did he have to do this? No. In the emails I saw from Bill he seemed very sincere. AND in the Vegas dvd of the last show in May you can hear him talking (almost sure its him) and he gets very excited over Beauty and the Beast. His emails also show how much he loves Stevie. He spent all that money on tix and stuff i see nothing wrong with throwing some money his way. Done.

LiquidBlue5000

08-19-2005, 01:54 PM

It makes no difference to me if there is three, six, or zero bootlegs from this tour out there. I can live without bootlegs.

Well, that's fine for you.. but there are many many other people who are big traders and collectors who live for this stuff... and i think they would prefer the dozens of boots to just 3... :rolleyes:

If you had bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I said you and your efforts were honorable due to the fact that you tape the shows and then share them freely with other fans.

how sweet... but i don't share them "freely" with anyone.. if i were to share them freely, i would be torrenting every single one of my shows.. i don't do that.. i trade my shows for other shows.. i don't do 2:1's and i don't do B & P's... i like to get something in return for my efforts, and i do.. for me, it's other Stevie/Mac shows.. for other people, like Bill, it's money... but i'm not going to judge him for charging because that's his business... not yours or mine or anyones

David

08-19-2005, 02:04 PM

To be honest, I didn't know there was a rule prohibiting these types of posts. I know now, the post is gone.If you ever get any Wild Heart Tour soundboards, you'd better post about them here, there or somewhere. Or I'll bop youz on the head! :xoxo:
The main difference is that John K, Stevie's label, and Mac's fan club (as well Associate Press, and several angry writers) have all contacted me on different occasions to remove content from my site.Oh my god! John Kickey ordered you to remove something on your site? What a @$*@!#.

Did you tell him, "The stuff I post is what makes my site infinitely better & more popular than yours"?

Nixxxed

08-19-2005, 02:09 PM

If you ever get any Wild Heart Tour soundboards, you'd better post about them here, there or somewhere. Or I'll bop youz on the head! :xoxo:
Oh my god! John Kickey ordered you to remove something on your site? What a @$*@!#.

Did you tell him, "The stuff I post is what makes my site infinitely better & more popular than yours"?
Oh my god! John Kickey ordered you to remove something on your site? What a @$*@!#.

Did you tell him, "The stuff I post is what makes my site infinitely better & more popular than yours"?

:nod: :nod: :nod:

Cour

08-19-2005, 02:21 PM

The main difference is that John K, Stevie's label, and Mac's fan club (as well Associate Press, and several angry writers) have all contacted me on different occasions to remove content from my site.

But you didn't know if this site has been contacted over the years by any of the people you mentioned. You also don't know if or when this site was contacted by many, many more associates of the band and press that you didn't mention. My point is, the implications for The Penguin might have been just as serious, if not more serious that anything you could have known or imagined for your own site.

I've never seen that kind of wicked surveillance on these boards, so I thought it would be more discreet to post here where fans would actually be looking for them.

Since this is the number one Fleetwood Mac site and is known to all the band members, management, Warner Bros, etc, etc., it would stand to reason that this is the site that is more closely watched than any other.

You also must have missed the entire Fanclub fiasco and the fact that The Penguin was directly involved. Marty & Lis very graciously allowed the Ledge to be used to fight for the removal of Jonathan Todd for over a year and helped organize the effort.

I'm sure many of the fans here didn't know about the wicked surveillance of your site, most site owners don't usually make that public knowledge. My only point was it seems like you were trying to protect your own site from dangers you knew were out there, but you didn't stop to give the same consideration to this site.

ontheEdgeof17

08-19-2005, 02:23 PM

But you didn't know if this site has been contacted over the years by any of the people you mentioned. You also don't know if or when this site was contacted by many, many more associates of the band and press that you didn't mention. My point is, the implications for The Penguin might have been just as serious, if not more serious that anything you could have known or imagined for your own site.

We talk about bootlegs and outtakes all the time on this board. There are even threads directly related to the Torrent sites. This thread was no different. :shrug:

estranged4life

08-19-2005, 02:30 PM

I've seen Bill work. It's excellent, probably some of the best audience recordings ever captured.

to say while his shows are good, they arent even close to the best audience recordings ever...I have say that mantle to say that belongs to the U2 (ie-March 28,2005 San Diego 4 camera mix...Smokes ANY Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks audience recording I have seen or own, Those folkz at U2Preservation.com are SICK with their quality of videos, Makes even some of the professional shows look pale in comparison) and Bruce Springsteen camp who take video boots of shows to a professional like level.

Cour

08-19-2005, 02:38 PM

We talk about bootlegs and outtakes all the time on this board. There are even threads directly related to the Torrent sites. This thread was no different. :shrug:

Difference of opinion. Those are freely traded items. These are being sold for $20 each (this time in a group of 6 or 7 shows) and someone is profiting from a band member. That might mean different things to certain people looking at that kind of promotional post.

This is not about my own beliefs and I wouldn't have even commented about the thread had it not been for part of Daniel's response about not posting anything about them on his own site, because he knew it might cause him problems, so he posted about them here instead.

Cour

08-19-2005, 02:44 PM

to say while his shows are good, they arent even close to the best audience recordings ever...I have say that mantle to say that belongs to the U2 (ie-March 28,2005 San Diego 4 camera mix...Smokes ANY Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks audience recording I have seen or own, Those folkz at U2Preservation.com are SICK with their quality of videos, Makes even some of the professional shows look pale in comparison) and Bruce Springsteen camp who take video boots of shows to a professional like level.

:nod: :nod: :nod:

Those guys are truly amazing. They also did other shows where they found a better audio than what was on the DVD so they remixed and synched it with the seperate audio from a different area in the arena, then added in another camera from the other side...crazy stuff and the result is flawless. They've done this a few times. They've got it down to an art form and I'm waiting to see what they have planned for the Fall leg of the US tour because they do plan ahead so they cover each show or try to.

ontheEdgeof17

08-19-2005, 02:45 PM

Difference of opinion. Those are freely traded items. These are being sold for $20 each (this time in a group of 6 or 7 shows) and someone is profiting from a band member. That might mean different things to certain people looking at that kind of promotional post.

The Penguin must not have a problem with it, cuz I see bootlegs being sold on ebay all the time....and it shows up everytime I go into a forum. If they didn't like this behavior, I wouldn't think they would advertise ebay throughout the message board....a well-known place for selling of bootlegs and other items for outrageous profit.

....but you're right...a difference of opinion.

estranged4life

08-19-2005, 02:52 PM

:nod: :nod: :nod:

Those guys are truly amazing. They also did other shows where they found a better audio than what was on the DVD so they remixed and synched it with the seperate audio from a different area in the arena, then added in another camera from the other side...crazy stuff and the result is flawless. They've done this a few times. They've got it down to an art form and I'm waiting to see what they have planned for the Fall leg of the US tour because they do plan ahead so they cover each show or try to.

if the Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac bootlegs were in the same catergory as those U2Preservation shows then I can tell ya most folkz wouldnt give a flyin' Mongolian clusterf**k if any "official" product ever makes it to the shelves...Sick, Just sick quality shows that blows my mind!!!

Cant wait to see what they have up their sleeves for the Fall U.S. tour shows...I think they will up the ante in how audience recording video bootlegs are to be seen.

ShangriLaTroubl

08-19-2005, 02:57 PM

if the Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac bootlegs were in the same catergory as those U2Preservation shows then I can tell ya most folkz wouldnt give a flyin' Mongolian clusterf**k if any "official" product ever makes it to the shelves...Sick, Just sick quality shows that blows my mind!!!

Cant wait to see what they have up their sleeves for the Fall U.S. tour shows...I think they will up the ante in how audience recording video bootlegs are to be seen.

No the bootlegs from this Summer tour have been excellent, I have only seen two...but of all the bootlegs I have , they are the best of them all

Chris

Cour

08-19-2005, 02:59 PM

The Penguin must not have a problem with it, cuz I see bootlegs being sold on ebay all the time....and it shows up everytime I go into a forum. If they didn't like this behavior, I wouldn't think they would advertise ebay throughout the message board....a well-known place for selling of bootlegs and other items for outrageous profit.

But it seems clear they do have a problem with it or they wouldn't have a rule prohibiting it. :shrug:

I think it's clear Ebay and the auction links are viewed differently and that's a whole other can of worms since Ebay can't and/or won't keep the bootlegs off their site:)

....but you're right...a difference of opinion.

right....and a different source of information.

estranged4life

08-19-2005, 03:00 PM

No the bootlegs from this Summer tour have been excellent, I have only seen two...but of all the bootlegs I have , they are the best of them all

Chris

also, I still wished the Stevie Nicks shows would be similar to the U2 shows (I received a few "Street Angel" shows on DVD recently, And all I can say is that they are typical of the Stevie Nicks bootleg/trading circles in terms of quality.)

ontheEdgeof17

08-19-2005, 03:07 PM

But it seems clear they do have a problem with it or they wouldn't have a rule prohibiting it. :shrug:

Then I don't understand why they list bootlegs that are sold in stores in their discography section. :shrug:

BTFLCHLD

08-19-2005, 03:08 PM

JMO i personally would rather spend $20 for a dvd i want of a show i attended than wait for someone lurking in the shadows to pick and choose which fans their recording is worthy of being bestowed upon :wavey:

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:08 PM

also, I still wished the Stevie Nicks shows would be similar to the U2 shows (I received a few "Street Angel" shows on DVD recently, And all I can say is that they are typical of the Stevie Nicks bootleg/trading circles in terms of quality.)

This is the largest FM site and there are a little over 3000 members. The largest U2 site that I've found has over 39,000 members. I guess they just have more than their fair share of audio/video geeks and we have less than our fair share:)

What I find funny about them is how their fans complain, complain complain about the set lists and lack of spontaneity, even though they change it up 1 zillion times more than we ever see. I think to myself, come over to my little world and you'd know set list misery and stale stage dialogue! :laugh:

Beachwood Mac

08-19-2005, 03:10 PM

I'm not one to usually jump in to a mix like this but as a fan I will pay for the cd or video if that's my only way of getting it. I have also paid for cd's from other members of this board who imply that they only trade. Many of us also download concert audio or video off of the dime website and some of those shows wouldn't be available to download if someone hadn't paid for the show to begin with.

Terry

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:12 PM

Then I don't understand why they list bootlegs that are sold in stores in their discography section. :shrug:

Don't know. It might be an oversight, might have been something someone else input into the discography, could be a lot of reasons. Or, there may be a specific reason it's there and Marty wanted it there. It might be something leftover from earlier days. :shrug:

whitesoxx

08-19-2005, 03:13 PM

if someone is going to risk their ass to record a show or several shows in the case of Bill, in my opinion he has the right to sell that show..

Isn't that overdoing it a bit? Probably the worst thing that could have happened is his camera getting confiscated- which he would have then been able to get back after the show...

ontheEdgeof17

08-19-2005, 03:17 PM

estranged4life

08-19-2005, 03:22 PM

What I find funny about them is how their fans complain, complain complain about the set lists and lack of spontaneity, even though they change it up 1 zillion times more than we ever see. I think to myself, come over to my little world and you'd know set list misery and stale stage dialogue! :laugh:

they would consider themselves lucky wouldnt they? :lol: :laugh:

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:22 PM

I don't think it's an oversight since the word "bootleg" is slapped across the cover. :laugh:

Oh well...to each their own. No sense in fighting over something that's hard to get a handle on and control.

I just sent you a PM if you want to send the links I'll try to find out something about it. Hardly a fight, there are literally thousands of entries in the discography and as I said to you in the PM, I believe the rule was put in to discourage bootleggers and people selling ashtrays, mugs, t-shirts and every other kind of thing from posting on the message boards.

If you want to send me some links to the pages you found in the discography, I'll look into it.

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:24 PM

they would consider themselves lucky wouldnt they? :lol: :laugh:

funny how they don't see it that way :laugh:

That would also mean there are fans who have it worse than we do! lol poor things :distress:

Nixxxed

08-19-2005, 03:31 PM

Don't know. It might be an oversight, might have been something someone else input into the discography, could be a lot of reasons. Or, there may be a specific reason it's there and Marty wanted it there. It might be something leftover from earlier days. :shrug:
I think they're just included just for completionist purposes. The front page does say "Check out the largest Mac discography online."

If there were a link on each entry to buy an illegal copy that would be different. Information is one thing, direct promotion to make a quick buck is another.

Plus, weren't most of the ones listed as Bootleg mass-produced by companies in other countries. (As opposed to sold onesy-twosy directly from the taper...)

thepoetinmyhear

08-19-2005, 03:33 PM

Don't know. It might be an oversight, might have been something someone else input into the discography, could be a lot of reasons. Or, there may be a specific reason it's there and Marty wanted it there. It might be something leftover from earlier days. :shrug:

Actually I think it is the rule that is a leftover from earlier days. You will find a few months ago a thread in the chit chat forum in which we discussed adding a new trading/bootleg forum back to the site as there had been a great one before the bid to become the official site. The ultimate decision hasn't been made but the response basically was that it's cool to talk about all that stuff now.

MacMan

08-19-2005, 03:38 PM

Management refuses to come back to the bargaining table. Our union is still ready to talk. I believe they'll keep us out for at least 2 weeks before they resume talks. They need to make sure we're suffering a bit. rumours on the lines are that we'll be out anywhere from 3 weeks to seven months.

The worst part of all this - we are getting no footage of the historic Gaza pullout, or any other major story in the world. We will never have any tape of this in our archives. That is the biggest shame of all for a public broadcaster.

You must work for the CBC! I hate this labour crap... I love watching the National every night - I'm starting to get used to the BBC World News, but it's not the same...

Nixxxed

08-19-2005, 03:43 PM

Actually I think it is the rule that is a leftover from earlier days. You will find a few months ago a thread in the chit chat forum in which we discussed adding a new trading/bootleg forum back to the site as there had been a great one before the bid to become the official site. The ultimate decision hasn't been made but the response basically was that it's cool to talk about all that stuff now.
Are you talking about this thread? http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=20020&highlight=trading+forum

It's completely about wanting a forum to trade bootlegs, not sell them. Plus, there's no post from Marty or Lis in it. Or did I not find the wrong one? (I'm still not smart enough to make the Search function work properly, after several years here... :laugh: )

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:43 PM

I think they're just included just for completionist purposes. The front page does say "Check out the largest Mac discography online."

If there were a link on each entry to buy an illegal copy that would be different. Information is one thing, direct promotion to make a quick buck is another.

Plus, weren't most of the ones listed as Bootleg mass-produced by companies in other countries. (As opposed to sold onesy-twosy directly from the taper...)

It could be any of those things, Curtis gave me the names of a few of them and I said I'd check them out. The link is also a general link and the disc is not actually for sale at this time, but it could be is the point.

Cour

08-19-2005, 03:53 PM

Actually I think it is the rule that is a leftover from earlier days. You will find a few months ago a thread in the chit chat forum in which we discussed adding a new trading/bootleg forum back to the site as there had been a great one before the bid to become the official site. The ultimate decision hasn't been made but the response basically was that it's cool to talk about all that stuff now.

I'm aware that has been brought up several times.

The only rule I was refering to was the this one:

Advertising or any form of commercial solicitation for sale products, services or other websites

I was not talking about recording, trading, owning, or torrenting bootlegs. I was also not debating or trying to inhibit anyone from selling bootlegs on other sites.

The post that you quoted from me is about a different conversation between Curtis and me about whether or not this site condones or promotes the sale of bootlegs. You'd have to go back and read through the posts to see how the conversation evolved.:)

realcowgirl

08-19-2005, 04:00 PM

are available.
How do we go about getting a copy?

JazmenFlowers

08-19-2005, 04:37 PM

I'm not going to get into this whole situation because it's retarded :lol:, but I just wanted to point out that when I first became a fan and joined the ledge for the first time back in 1997, guess where my first $100 was spent...

...buying bootleg video and cassettes from this very site. It was only later that The Penguin stopped selling those, I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) after they decided to campaign to be the official FM website.

And I treasure those tapes and videos so much. I remember getting the package in the mail at my aunt's house and hearing Maker of the Birds and Julia for the first time. Anyway...like everyone has said, it's a huge difference of opinion and nothing in these 6 pages of posts will change anything.

JazmenFlowers

08-19-2005, 04:38 PM

thepoetinmyhear

08-19-2005, 05:55 PM

Just saw your post - mine is in a similar vein...sorry for the duplicate.

No problem, it's nice for emphasis :xoxo: I'm sure many of us learned about and bought our first boots here.

Cour

08-19-2005, 06:44 PM

It was only later that The Penguin stopped selling those, I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) after they decided to campaign to be the official FM website.

It's my memory that it stopped a lot earlier, if I remember correctly it stopped a year before that...but I could be wrong.

Cour

08-19-2005, 06:48 PM

No problem, it's nice for emphasis :xoxo: I'm sure many of us learned about and bought our first boots here.

Emphasis on what? What Marty and Lis did in the early day to keep this site alive and running, so that we still have a place to come hang out today? :nod:

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 09:00 PM

Also to add she has never mentioned bootlegs of concerts, so you are ASSUMING it upsets her..She has mentioned being upset that many of her unreleased songs were leaked in bootleg form, because they were stolen from her at one point...but she has never mentioned bootleg concerts

Chris
Yea..Next Tour I'm sure Stevie will open the show with a big drawn out explanation for all the bootleggers to please not film her and give her "official" statement about it all being illegal and uncool...so that way it is official and you will all know better then, Yea..sure.

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 09:06 PM

First of all I dont think the passing of her father has anything to do with bootlegs,but it was quite nice of you to add that in there, I'm sure to add some kind of guilt effect to your post..If you dont like bootlegs, guess what don't buy them, don't trade for them--that's your choice..but don't come on here trying to relate the death of her father to bootleg sales in some attempt to make us feel guilty

Chris
You obviously feel guilty or you would not have responded.
The lack of integrity on this subject is blaringly obvious.
No one can make you feel anything..that is up to you.

ontheEdgeof17

08-19-2005, 09:09 PM

You obviously feel guilty or you would not have responded.
The lack of integrity on this subject is blaringly obvious.
No one can make you feel anything..that is up to you.

I can't speak for Chris, but for me, I love bootlegs. <3333 No guilt here. :p

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 09:12 PM

Hmmm I don't think that would hold up in court...

A lot of bands, however, don't mind their concerts being traded if no money exchanges hands, Marah and Wilco are just two I know of. Jewel used to have a trading network called Angel Food that was even on her official site. Some bands even let people put their mini discs into the soundboard at their shows. I can't think of one band who encourages people to tape or video their shows and then sell them on though...

I'm almost sorry I posted anything, but I can't help it, I think selling bootlegs is wrong. Someone who sells pirate copies of films also makes an effort making fake covers, putting menus to the DVD etc. I don't think that gives them the right to sell it either. I don't think the effort it takes justifies it IMO. If this Bill person just charged for the cost of the DVD and the postage then I'd think fair enough. Only then I'd think that maybe he was doing it out of the goodness of his heart.
I guess the bootleggers would attack anyone with a conscience.
You have character & integrity. You never have to defend the truth. :xoxo:

BlackWidow

08-19-2005, 09:16 PM

Isn't that overdoing it a bit? Probably the worst thing that could have happened is his camera getting confiscated- which he would have then been able to get back after the show...
Thank you.."Oh..the drama of it all." :laugh:

nickslover2071

08-19-2005, 09:18 PM

Hey BTW

If anyone wants to trade for copies of these
DVDs PM me..... :angel:

SapphireSister

08-19-2005, 09:32 PM

How do you get the freakin dvd's? I've pm'd Daniel and emailed Bill and haven't heard back :(.

Macfanforever

08-19-2005, 09:33 PM

Personally I don't go for buying boots for cash, maybe he is thinking of the time to copy the videos,wear and tear of his equipment. costs of the media, and shipping charges.I like to trade or do Bittorrent. $ 20.00 is average for videos.
it's a little steep for me,but it you want it ,you will buy it.I know Stevie hates people doing this. but maybe people will have a heart to send the procides from the boots to the Arizona Heart Institute or the City of Hope, Stevie will love that.

nickslover2071

08-19-2005, 10:06 PM

How do you get the freakin dvd's? I've pm'd Daniel and emailed Bill and haven't heard back :(.

HI

I ordered mine awhile ago...And I email Bill alot..so he usually gets back to me quick...

trackaghost

08-20-2005, 08:13 AM

I guess the bootleggers would attack anyone with a conscience.
You have character & integrity. You never have to defend the truth. :xoxo:

Thanks... but I'm not against trading just selling bootlegs...

thepoetinmyhear

08-20-2005, 08:33 AM

AHEM

Yea..Next Tour I'm sure Stevie will open the show with a big drawn out explanation for all the bootleggers to please not film her and give her "official" statement about it all being illegal and uncool...so that way it is official and you will all know better then, Yea..sure.

I guess I have very strong opinions on people who make money off Bootlegs.
It is a criminal offense for starters. And Stevie's opinion on this subject matter has been well documented. It truly upsets her..and knowing that her father just passed makes it all the more..not cool. If she wanted you to have copies of this show..she will release it on DVD herself..and make the money on it..since it is her work! IMO.....

It was you who claimed that Stevie's opinion had been well documented, not anyone else, but We'll give you a :D for effort.

nicks4kicks

08-20-2005, 09:05 AM

How do you get the freakin dvd's? I've pm'd Daniel and emailed Bill and haven't heard back :(.

Hi everybody.......I'm new here........I'm interested in the DVD's as well despite the debate that's going on..........Who is Bill and how do I get a hold of him....????

Thanks....

Shelley

Dreammms

08-20-2005, 11:30 AM

also, I still wished the Stevie Nicks shows would be similar to the U2 shows (I received a few "Street Angel" shows on DVD recently, And all I can say is that they are typical of the Stevie Nicks bootleg/trading circles in terms of quality.)

I agree Brian. I wish Stevie/Mac DVD's could be like the U2 ones. They are so amazing.

About buying these DVD's and others...I don't see a big problem with it. When a DVD is being sold for 20 bucks and 10 people buy it all together it only comes to 2 dollars a person. Not a biggie.

I love collecting cds and dvds. Anything out there I want....

Just wanted to add that I wouldn't sell bootlegs. I like to trade and if somebody doesnt have something to trade I am always willing to do a 2:1.

Dreammms

08-20-2005, 11:37 AM

You obviously feel guilty or you would not have responded.
The lack of integrity on this subject is blaringly obvious.
No one can make you feel anything..that is up to you.

I don't feel guilt at all and I am sure Chris doesn't feel guilty. A group of us gets together and buys the DVDs that are being sold and then we trade them. It's not a big deal...

I LOVE BOOTLEGS!!!!

WelshWitchPMD

08-20-2005, 11:41 AM

I agree Brian. I wish Stevie/Mac DVD's could be like the U2 ones. They are so amazing.

About buying these DVD's and others...I don't see a big problem with it. When a DVD is being sold for 20 bucks and 10 people buy it all together it only comes to 2 dollars a person. Not a biggie.

I love collecting cds and dvds. Anything out there I want....

Just wanted to add that I wouldn't sell bootlegs. I like to trade and if somebody doesnt have something to trade I am always willing to do a 2:1.

Why are the U2 ones so amazing? How do they record them? Figures the artists that I don't like have great boots. That might change when a certain someone tours. ;)

I used to buy CDs and DVDs at record shows back in the day when I did not know any better. I paid about $25.00 for my Mirage DVD back in 2000. Now I share it and all my others freely by trading. :)

Dreammms

08-20-2005, 11:44 AM

Why are the U2 ones so amazing? How do they record them? Figures the artists that I don't like have great boots. That might change when a certain someone tours. ;)

I'll send you the two U2 DVDs I have Pattie.

It's a 4 Cam mix. It's like watching an officialy released dvd.

estranged4life

08-20-2005, 01:39 PM

It's a 4 Cam mix. It's like watching an officialy released dvd.

the 4 camera mix of the March 28,2005 San Diego show is as close to an official release...Without being an official release.

The multi-angle shots, The split screen shots and the 4 corner shots are unheard of for an audience recording, But that was before U2Preservation.com proved it can be done.

Hell, U2 tapers has taken audience videos in the recent past and synced 'em up with ALD/IEM/Soundboard sourced audio recording to make some brilliant shows that not only look great, But have great audio backing tracks.

trackaghost

08-20-2005, 02:20 PM

I don't feel guilt at all and I am sure Chris doesn't feel guilty. A group of us gets together and buys the DVDs that are being sold and then we trade them. It's not a big deal...

I LOVE BOOTLEGS!!!!

No, that's cool (really cool in fact). I don't want anyone to think I'm on the anti-bootleg train. I just agree with David, that's all.

BlackWidow

08-20-2005, 02:29 PM

:) AHEM

It was you who claimed that Stevie's opinion had been well documented, not anyone else, but We'll give you a :D for effort.
It is obviously an integrity issue...

Kelly

08-20-2005, 03:08 PM

:)
It is obviously an integrity issue...

Stevie allows digital cameras at her shows. She also owns a digital camera so she is well aware they record also.
I have heard her comment about bootleggers mostly in context of her stolen demos and IMHO, she sounds most angry at the fact they were stolen from her house. I don't usually buy stuff, I prefer to trade but I have no problem with people buying these dvds. I have bought stuff from Bill in the past. I will get these from trade most likely but if I want them bad enough, I will just buy em first. It is an individual choice and from the tone of your posts, I assume you have none of Stevie's unreleased material? You have never heard any of the unreleased BN tracks? Never seen the Rumours Japan footage? I certainly respect your choice if you only have released material on your computer and on your cds.

BTW...this is a whole other can of worms but where did the TiSL demos come from? Yea, I know ebay but how did they get on ebay? Stuff suddenly and randomly appears. My Heart appeared at an interesting time...when intense negotiations were going on with WB and Stevie was very unhappy with their Greatest Hits plan. Coincidence? Probably.

LiquidBlue5000

08-20-2005, 03:11 PM

BTW...this is a whole other can of worms but where did the TiSL demos come from? Yea, I know ebay but how did they get on ebay? Stuff suddenly and randomly appears. My Heart appeared at an interesting time...when intense negotiations were going on with WB and Stevie was very unhappy with their Greatest Hits plan. Coincidence? Probably.

Kelly, i often wondered about all that myself.. especially those TISL demos... nothing comes from nothing and i highly doubt someone "stole her tapes" yet again ;)

MacMan

08-20-2005, 04:38 PM

when intense negotiations were going on with WB and Stevie was very unhappy with their Greatest Hits plan. Coincidence? Probably.

Huh? Really... So what were the "intense" negotiations about?

My Heart came out long before we even heard about a possible Greatest Hits collection. It was discovered in November, 2004 when someone bought an acetate of TISL or a final mix of the cd or something like that..

ShangriLaTroubl

08-20-2005, 06:17 PM

Stevie allows digital cameras at her shows. She also owns a digital camera so she is well aware they record also.

Not at any of the shows I've been to

Chris

WildInTheWind

08-20-2005, 08:59 PM

Hi everybody.......I'm new here........I'm interested in the DVD's as well despite the debate that's going on..........Who is Bill and how do I get a hold of him....????

Thanks....

Shelley

Welcome to the board :)

Nicks Fan

08-20-2005, 11:02 PM

Well this is my stance on the issue.

I do NOT agree with anybody making a dime of the bootlegs. I don't mind trading but when you sell them for any amount of money it just seesm like a low thng to do.

However I have many times requested certain shows and not one member has offerd me the shows. I am new at all of this so I my response is always that een though I have no fm things to trade for I can send you a blank CD or DVD and money for the shiping etc for your troubles. But the response I have always gotten is things like "I have them but I am not trading for them right now". So why then should it be so wrong for people to buy them or sell them when at least from my perspective that seems the only way to get them. I come form Canada and since fm and any of the members rarely play here It would mean something to me to have all of there Cdn shows in my collection. I have asked countless times here and on other boards for any copies that might be floating about but not ONE person has offered me the shows unless I have offered money and even at that I still have yet to obtain a single Bootleg from any show.

My brother has countless bootlegs from Tori Amos hows where he only has to send a blank CD or DVD and some money for postage and handling. To me that is how it should be done. No one loses out in the end.

Matt

Kelly

08-21-2005, 07:40 AM

Not at any of the shows I've been to

Chris

Okay. In Vegas Caesars does not normally allow cameras. The security guys specifically told us that "STEVIE" was allowing cameras, as long as they were not professional recording equipment. The guys seemed genuinely surprised, like they do not see that often.
We were allowed to take photos in Philly and Atlantic City as well. In Hershey, my friends were told to take their cameras back to the car but other people took photos. I have seen Stevie look at people photographing her and not a darn thing is done to stop them....if they are using a flash, maybe they will be asked to turn off the flash.
I remember a fan from some FM board comment that they started to take a photo of Stevie, from right in the front row. She was a young fan and got sort of rattled when Stevie looked at her. She came right on one of these boards and said that Stevie smiled at her and mouthed "its ok".
Stevie has no problem with fans taking photos. If she did, people would be stopped much more often and band members wouldn't be posing for shots.

* I do not think that Stevie wants her shows recorded though. Or videotaped from beginning to end and sold on dvds. However, she allows digital cameras, so logically she knows people can take video clips.

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 12:29 PM

but too many people are either too lazy to read my guidelines (ie-Want more discs than I allow for a B&P or they do not send the right type of blank media for me to use) or they're just too damn stupid too.

I prefer B&P trades over 2:1 trades since most trading circles (ie other artists) frown down upon the practice of 2:1 trades as a type of "profitting" (I will occassionally do a 2:1 trade for a newbie ONLY who doesnt have anything trade wise as a foundation to build a collection with.)

LiquidBlue5000

08-21-2005, 01:20 PM

I prefer B&P trades over 2:1 trades since most trading circles (ie other artists) frown down upon the practice of 2:1 trades as a type of "profitting" (I will occassionally do a 2:1 trade for a newbie ONLY who doesnt have anything trade wise as a foundation to build a collection with.)

I think that is absolutely ridiculous.. i swear, the trading community has go to be the most overly sensitive group of individuals on the planet... where else in the world would someone NOT get something in return for doing a FAVOR for someone they don't even know?? :shrug:

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 01:41 PM

I think that is absolutely ridiculous.. i swear, the trading community has go to be the most overly sensitive group of individuals on the planet... where else in the world would someone NOT get something in return for doing a FAVOR for someone they don't even know?? :shrug:

between the Stevie/Mac circles and the other artists I collect...Don't really agree with the rules for other artists, but I abide by their rules to get what I need (There's a trader 'out there' who has several 2003-2004 SYW shows he taped that arent currently in circulation, He is NOT a FM fan, Just a taper who tapes all the shows in his area...He wont accept either a 2:1 for the shows, Or even a B&P...So I have been unsuccessful at getting his shows into circulation.)

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 01:49 PM

between the Stevie/Mac circles and the other artists I collect...Don't really agree with the rules for other artists, but I abide by their rules to get what I need (There's a trader 'out there' who has several 2003-2004 SYW shows he taped that arent currently in circulation, He is NOT a FM fan, Just a taper who tapes all the shows in his area...He wont accept either a 2:1 for the shows, Or even a B&P...So I have been unsuccessful at getting his shows into circulation.)

Could you list these shows he has. Im curious. Would be a nice thing to let us traders know there are more shows out there.

MoonChilde

08-21-2005, 01:54 PM

However I have many times requested certain shows and not one member has offerd me the shows. I am new at all of this so I my response is always that een though I have no fm things to trade for I can send you a blank CD or DVD and money for the shiping etc for your troubles
(quote)

I have to disagree with this poster somewhat..Being as I am fairly new here and don;t know the ins and outs of trading and even that bootlegs even existed before(Imagine my thrill to find out that there is lots more versions to my faves) I have requested a copy of something and was met with much kindness !(((thank you))))..
Saying all that that, I was wondering if someone could explain to me some of the lingo ??I am so excited that I will be receiving a copy of show in the mail soon and can;t wait to try and start a small collection..(LOL My husband will be forever grateful he doesn;t have to watch the same 2 Fm dvds over and over)with the new one added..But I honestly dont understand the lingo on some of the sites and want to make sure before I request anything from anyone I know what I am asking for and not causing to many headaches for the kind soul I request it from..
For example what does 2:1 mean?
what does B&P mean?
Please don;t think me stupid ..lol well ok but maybe just a little but it would be great to have a thread where this stuff is all explained to us newbies.Please!!! :sorry:

WelshWitchPMD

08-21-2005, 01:56 PM

between the Stevie/Mac circles and the other artists I collect...Don't really agree with the rules for other artists, but I abide by their rules to get what I need (There's a trader 'out there' who has several 2003-2004 SYW shows he taped that arent currently in circulation, He is NOT a FM fan, Just a taper who tapes all the shows in his area...He wont accept either a 2:1 for the shows, Or even a B&P...So I have been unsuccessful at getting his shows into circulation.)

Then what is the point of even taping these show? Are these videos or audios?

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 02:04 PM

Could you list these shows he has. Im curious. Would be a nice thing to let us traders know there are more shows out there.

I kept after another overseas trader informed me about this person's list of shows he had that werent in circulation (A couple are in circulation, But they are not from the same taper):

Audio, not in circulation
May 15,2004-Atlanta, GA-Chastain Park
May 18,2004-W.Palm Beach, FL-Sound Advice Amp
May 23,2004-Jacksonville, FL-Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena

Audio in circulation, but different source
June 3,2003-Atlanta, GA-Philips Arena
Sept.7,2003-Duluth, GA-The Arena at Gwinnett Center (Complete show, The version in circulation is incomplete)

The taper said he may, repeat "He May", list 'em up on torrent in the future for download.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 02:07 PM

between the Stevie/Mac circles and the other artists I collect...Don't really agree with the rules for other artists, but I abide by their rules to get what I need (There's a trader 'out there' who has several 2003-2004 SYW shows he taped that arent currently in circulation, He is NOT a FM fan, Just a taper who tapes all the shows in his area...He wont accept either a 2:1 for the shows, Or even a B&P...So I have been unsuccessful at getting his shows into circulation.)

He's not trading period for any of the artists he has... He's just not interested in it at the moment, but that might change later (if we are talking about the same guy - which I'm sure we are).

MacMan

08-21-2005, 02:16 PM

I kept after another overseas trader informed me about this person's list of shows he had that werent in circulation (A couple are in circulation, But they are not from the same taper):

Audio, not incirculation
May 15,2004-Atlanta, GA-Chastain Park
May 18,2004-W.Palm Beach, FL-Sound Advice Amp
May 23,2004-Jacksonville, FL-Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena

Audio in circulation, but different source
June 3,2003-Atlanta, GA-Philips Arena
Sept.7,2003-Duluth, GA-The Arena at Gwinnett Center (Complete show, The version in circulation is incomplete)

The taper said he may, repeat "He May", list 'em up on torrent in the future for download.

Also should ad that this 9/7/03 Duluth, GA show from this trader is on DVD and he calls it: "Crystal Vision" 9/7/03 The Arena @ Gwinnett Center Duluth, GA

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 02:29 PM

Saying all that that, I was wondering if someone could explain to me some of the lingo ??I am so excited that I will be receiving a copy of show in the mail soon and can;t wait to try and start a small collection..(LOL My husband will be forever grateful he doesn;t have to watch the same 2 Fm dvds over and over)with the new one added..But I honestly dont understand the lingo on some of the sites and want to make sure before I request anything from anyone I know what I am asking for and not causing to many headaches for the kind soul I request it from..

For example what does 2:1 mean?
what does B&P mean?
Please don;t think me stupid ..lol well ok but maybe just a little but it would be great to have a thread where this stuff is all explained to us newbies.Please!!! :sorry:

not know the lingo of trading:

A 2:1 is when you send 2 blank discs for every 1 disc that you would like to trade for...The copier copies the requested show and keeps the extra blank for their time/service

A B&P is when you mail blank media (The "B" in B&P...The media being either audio discs or DVD's) and postage for the return of the copied discs (The "P" in B&P.)

A very good source for understanding trade lingo is JG's website (Her "Trade Guidelines" & "FAQ" are recommended!!!) she is one of the best traders you can find:

http://www.geocities.com/chula71619732/index2.html

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 02:30 PM

Also should ad that this 9/7/03 Duluth, GA show from this trader is on DVD and he calls it: "Crystal Vision" 9/7/03 The Arena @ Gwinnett Center Duluth, GA

the trader who had the shows I listed didnt list the complete Duluth show as a DVD, Just as an audio disc set.

MoonChilde

08-21-2005, 03:03 PM

not know the lingo of trading:

A 2:1 is when you send 2 blank discs for every 1 disc that you would like to trade for...The copier copies the requested show and keeps the extra blank for their time/service

A B&P is when you mail blank media (The "B" in B&P...The media being either audio discs or DVD's) and postage for the return of the copied discs (The "P" in B&P.)

A very good source for understanding trade lingo is JG's website (Her "Trade Guidelines" & "FAQ" are recommended!!!) she is one of the best traders you can find:

http://www.geocities.com/chula71619732/index2.html

:xoxo: :xoxo: Thank you Brian !! and thanks for the link too..

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 04:22 PM

I kept after another overseas trader informed me about this person's list of shows he had that werent in circulation (A couple are in circulation, But they are not from the same taper):

Audio, not incirculation
May 15,2004-Atlanta, GA-Chastain Park
May 18,2004-W.Palm Beach, FL-Sound Advice Amp
May 23,2004-Jacksonville, FL-Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena

Audio in circulation, but different source
June 3,2003-Atlanta, GA-Philips Arena
Sept.7,2003-Duluth, GA-The Arena at Gwinnett Center (Complete show, The version in circulation is incomplete)

The taper said he may, repeat "He May", list 'em up on torrent in the future for download.

Brian,

People are dreading over that May 15 2004 show. That was the show silver springs was dropped and that she did an amazing job. Im sure if you got that into cirrculation, you would have a lot of new friends. :thumbsup:

MacMan

08-21-2005, 05:21 PM

I started a list awhile back to list out all the bootlegs for each tour... So far, I've got four tours put together.. it's obviously a work in progress, but if anyone sees any errors, or additions... let me know :)

http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/nickslive/SYWBootSummary.htm

sodascouts

08-21-2005, 05:23 PM

ontheEdgeof17

08-21-2005, 05:26 PM

WelshWitchPMD

08-21-2005, 05:33 PM

MacMan

08-21-2005, 05:42 PM

Hershey is on DVD. It is only half the show up to GDW but there is a video.

Thanks Patti.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 05:45 PM

Thanks Patti.

peter,

I have two Tango in the Night shows and one Behind the Mask show that aren't listed as cirrculating on that page. They are:

June 11, 1988 Dortmund, W/Germany Westfalenhalle
June 15, 1988 Rotterdam, Holland Ahoy Hal
March 23, 1990 Brisbane, AU Boondall Entertainment Centre

WelshWitchPMD

08-21-2005, 05:48 PM

Thanks Patti.

You are welcome! Great idea and site BTW! I would love to have that 9/7/2003 Duluth, GA show on DVD.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 05:49 PM

peter,

I have two Tango in the Night shows and one Behind the Mask show that aren't listed as cirrculating on that page. They are:

June 11, 1988 Dortmund, W/Germany Westfalenhalle
June 15, 1988 Rotterdam, Holland Ahoy Hal
March 23, 1990 Brisbane, AU Boondall Entertainment Centre

Thank you Sir.. They are there now.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 05:50 PM

Thank you Sir.. They are there now.

No problem!

When you get to Other Side of the Mirror let me know, im sure ill be a great help! ;)

WelshWitchPMD

08-21-2005, 05:56 PM

I kept after another overseas trader informed me about this person's list of shows he had that werent in circulation (A couple are in circulation, But they are not from the same taper):

You know what else is supposedly out there but nobody can find? Lindsey's OOTC show from Boston. I would LOVE to have that!
I am really surprised that there were not a lot more European SYW shows that were recorded and that none of the Australian shows were recorded.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 05:56 PM

No problem!

When you get to Other Side of the Mirror let me know, im sure ill be a great help! ;)

Yes. I'm sure you'll be a source of much information on that tour... especially if they include "Alice".

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 05:57 PM

gldstwmn

08-21-2005, 06:15 PM

Audio, not incirculation
May 15,2004-Atlanta, GA-Chastain Park

There are people who would die to hear this show. :laugh:

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 06:17 PM

Yes. I'm sure you'll be a source of much information on that tour... especially if they include "Alice".

Yes I could help with the whole tour. There are a lot of recordings that came from overseas that are going to be in cirrculation soon. Someone is transferring them all from tape and deserves a lot of credit.

Also Pattie,

One Aus Show was taped on audio. I know a few people on this board might have it.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 06:24 PM

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 06:30 PM

Yes I could help with the whole tour. There are a lot of recordings that came from overseas that are going to be in cirrculation soon. Someone is transferring them all from tape and deserves a lot of credit.

19 OSOTM shows I have in my possession and about 3 more to transfer to disc...Thanks in part to an Italian trader who has plenty of music on audio cassette not in circulation here in the US/North America.

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 06:32 PM

I thought Tiff posted the soundboard on her page a while back and then it was torrented??

has is different than the one I have...I dont recall that it was torrented though it may have been.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 06:38 PM

to have all the shows that are available listed, the bad thing is that sometimes there are multiple versions of each show from different sources, (Such as the Nov.12,1987 Houston show, The version I own is a "Soundboard recording", Not the "Audience recording") or unless someone owns a tour schedule that is accurate there can be problems with listing the correct tour date.

The only problem with the multiple recording listing is that no one keeps track of who's recording it is to seperate them from the others. That's why on the list, I just have an "x" for multiple recordings, or sources... The only seperation would be whether its an audience or sbd... The whole thing is a work in progress and the tour dates are pretty much accurate. Obviously things change as we move along so if there are corrections/additions they are certainly welcome.

sodascouts

08-21-2005, 06:39 PM

The only problem with the multiple recording listing is that no one keeps track of who's recording it is to seperate them from the others. That's why on the list, I just have an "x" for multiple recordings, or sources... The only seperation would be whether its an audience or sbd... The whole thing is a work in progress and the tour dates are pretty much accurate. Obviously things change as we move along so if there are corrections/additions they are certainly welcome.

And even if it's not perfect it'll still be extremely helpful. It's inevitable that every trader will have errors in his/her listings and maybe if we get something like this we can watch out for those better.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 06:47 PM

19 OSOTM shows I have in my possession and about 3 more to transfer to disc...Thanks in part to an Italian trader who has plenty of music on audio cassette not in circulation here in the US/North America.

Theres more than 19. 22 sounds like a good number. 25 sounds even better. They will be making an appearance very soon. And the best part is they will all be lossless.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 06:50 PM

Yes I could help with the whole tour. There are a lot of recordings that came from overseas that are going to be in cirrculation soon. Someone is transferring them all from tape and deserves a lot of credit.

Also Pattie,

One Aus Show was taped on audio. I know a few people on this board might have it.

Does anyone know the details of this Aussie show out there - The date, city audio quality.. all the fun stuff?

Thanks.

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 06:53 PM

shows where the dates were wrong, And thankfully for people such as the Ledges own David I have been able to correct the dates to the exact date and sometimes the location where the concert occurred.

One thing I try to do no matter what the quality of the recording (Believe me I just received some FM/SN shows that werent that spectacular) is to listen to each recording and list all the tracks and double check to make sure the show is not another show incorrectly listed/dated.

As of late on newer recordings I list all the source/lineage info if it is available...Especially helpful is if the taper's name is known which can help weed out incorrect date/location info and it also can help when there's several versions of the same show (ie-Stevie Nicks-May 11,2005-Las Vegas...3 versions at last count.)

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 06:53 PM

Does anyone know the details of this Aussie show out there - The date, city audio quality.. all the fun stuff?

Thanks.

You might want to talk to Lux or Joe (DownonRodeo) I think they said something about having one hald of the Aussie show and someone else had the other half. I believe I have a sample Mp3 from it on this PC.

MacMan

08-21-2005, 06:55 PM

You might want to talk to Lux or Joe (DownonRodeo) I think they said something about having one hald of the Aussie show and someone else had the other half. I believe I have a sample Mp3 from it on this PC.

Come to think of it.. I remember Lux talking about that - were it was only a partial.

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 06:59 PM

Theres more than 19. 22 sounds like a good number. 25 sounds even better. They will be making an appearance very soon. And the best part is they will all be lossless.

I have several now that I havent bothered to burn to disc since the sound-quality blows and no amount of PC editing program could fix these recordings to a listenable quality.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 07:00 PM

I have several now that I havent bothered to burn to disc since the sound-quality blows and no amount of PC editing program could fix these recordings to a listenable quality.

I know someone who did. They worked very hard and I can say that of some of the D rated recordings were changed to at least C+/B- and very listenable.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 07:11 PM

Come to think of it.. I remember Lux talking about that - were it was only a partial.

Yes I think she had one half and someone else had the other half. I could be mistaken but ill ask her if I chat with her.

estranged4life

08-21-2005, 07:13 PM

I know someone who did. They worked very hard and I can say that of some of the D rated recordings were changed to at least C+/B- and very listenable.

the ratings of discs, What someone may consider B- some may consider a D- (I received some Stevie shows recently and a great majority of the recordings were B or worse at best). I dont have a need anymore for shows that are on the bottom rung of the quality ladder.

I have started to consider what a few artist groups have started and that is to use the system of is a show going to have a large amount of requests to be heard or is it going to be a show that only the completists would want.

What I try to grade on is clarity of the performance more so than how the artist performed, how complete is the show, how many errors does the show contain be it from the taper or be it from how many generations it is removed from being a 1st generation quality recording, is the taper in a quiet location or near a noisy crowd, how well will the recording transfer from tape to disc without PC editing, does the show have a great balance when it is being played through my stereo systems, And how well all of the instrument/vocals come through on the recording.

IMO, the Stevie Nicks shows only started to show improvement in quality with the shows from 1998 onwards....Mainly due to better equipment and technology that is available to tapers. You can always find a good recording or two from any tour, But going by an average rating for a tour instead of individual shows I still say the 1998-to-present shows are the best for Stevie.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 07:16 PM

the ratings of discs, What someone may consider B- some may consider a D- (I received some Stevie shows recently and a great majority of the recordings were B or worse at best). I dont have a need anymore for shows that are on the bottom rung of the quality ladder.

I have started to consider what a few artist groups have started and that is to use the system of is a show going to have a large amount of requests to be heard or is it going to be a show that only the completists would want.

What I try to grade on is clarity of the performance more so than how the artist performed, how complete is the show, how many errors does the show contain be it from the taper or be it from how many generations it is removed from being a 1st generation quality recording, is the taper in a quiet location or near a noisy crowd, how well will the recording transfer from tape to disc without PC editing, does the show have a great balance when it is being played through my stereo systems, And how well all of the instrument/vocals come through on the recording.

IMO, the Stevie Nicks shows only started to show improvement in quality with the shows from 1998 onwards....Mainly due to better equipment and technology that is available to tapers. You can always find a good recording or two from any tour, But going by an average rating for a tour instead of individual shows I still say the 1998-to-present shows are the best for Stevie.

I see your standpoint Brian. Plus you collect a lot of other artists and their bootlegs have such better quality. I only collect FM/SN and the eras I like do not have the best quality. So im sure our opinions would differ. But I do know these new OSOTM shows were cleaned up a LOT. Like 10 months were put into these!!!

MacMan

08-21-2005, 07:27 PM

the ratings of discs, What someone may consider B- some may consider a D- (I received some Stevie shows recently and a great majority of the recordings were B or worse at best). I dont have a need anymore for shows that are on the bottom rung of the quality ladder.

I have started to consider what a few artist groups have started and that is to use the system of is a show going to have a large amount of requests to be heard or is it going to be a show that only the completists would want.

What I try to grade on is clarity of the performance more so than how the artist performed, how complete is the show, how many errors does the show contain be it from the taper or be it from how many generations it is removed from being a 1st generation quality recording, is the taper in a quiet location or near a noisy crowd, how well will the recording transfer from tape to disc without PC editing, does the show have a great balance when it is being played through my stereo systems, And how well all of the instrument/vocals come through on the recording.

IMO, the Stevie Nicks shows only started to show improvement in quality with the shows from 1998 onwards....Mainly due to better equipment and technology that is available to tapers. You can always find a good recording or two from any tour, But going by an average rating for a tour instead of individual shows I still say the 1998-to-present shows are the best for Stevie.

I've always graded based on what the overall recording sounds like whether the artist sucked that night or not... it's always been about the clarity of the performace for me on the grading...never about the performace cause I couldn't remember from one show to the next which one they did an better job on or not.. I'm not that detailed. The noisy surroundings - that's another issue.. I would suspect it's hard for tapers to find a quiet corner. If they do... that's great... but as long as there's not too much "in your face" talking or what not.. It's hard to grade that for me.. Unless they talk all the way through the show like that Mansfield SYW show with all the commenting. Now that took away from the show.. I remember the talking more then the show.. :]

Dark Angel

08-21-2005, 07:28 PM

I see your standpoint Brian. Plus you collect a lot of other artists and their bootlegs have such better quality. I only collect FM/SN and the eras I like do not have the best quality. So im sure our opinions would differ. But I do know these new OSOTM shows were cleaned up a LOT. Like 10 months were put into these!!!

It has not been ten months! :p Only about six, and that's because I had to find for myself that no cassette deck plays as the same speed as another, and use another deck.

AliceLover

08-21-2005, 07:30 PM

It has not been ten months! :p Only about six, and that's because I had to find for myself that no cassette deck plays as the same speed as another, and use another deck.

Excuse me! Six months! :lol:

Dreammms

08-21-2005, 07:35 PM

It has not been ten months! :p Only about six, and that's because I had to find for myself that no cassette deck plays as the same speed as another, and use another deck.

lolol lisa i was thinking it was about ten months too :)
you worked very hard and we thank you :) :xoxo:

Dark Angel

08-21-2005, 07:46 PM

lolol lisa i was thinking it was about ten months too :)
you worked very hard and we thank you :) :xoxo:

:laugh: Thank you! :) Now I get to update my trade page. Shoot me please! :lol:

Dreammms

08-21-2005, 07:53 PM

:laugh: Thank you! :) Now I get to update my trade page. Shoot me please! :lol:

:lol: :lol: I need to do a major update too. I got so far behind so now it sucks. After this update I am going to make sure I always add as soon as I get it...

you should start transfering your vhs to dvd :wavey:

JeannieKartis

08-22-2005, 02:45 PM

Not at all. It's a known fact that he isn't much of a Stevie fan, unless things have changed since he started with those master reels. I was simply agreeing with David's assertion that Bill is in it for monetary purposes.

and your point would be what?? That Stevie will never be able to retire because of someone selling some dvd's...come on, give it a rest.

btw, I know Bill, he's a great guy and certainly isn't making enough $$ to retire himself...

dissention

08-22-2005, 02:49 PM

and your point would be what?? That Stevie will never be able to retire because of someone selling some dvd's...come on, give it a rest.

btw, I know Bill, he's a great guy and certainly isn't making enough $$ to retire himself...

Point being that he shouldn't be selling bootlegs. If you disagree, that's fine, but he's no different than the people who sell bootlegs on eBay.

trackaghost

08-22-2005, 02:55 PM

Point being that he shouldn't be selling bootlegs. If you disagree, that's fine, but he's no different than the people who sell bootlegs on eBay.

That's what I don't get Josh. If someone was selling these on eBay there would be an uproar about it but because some people know him and he's a "nice guy", somehow that makes it alright.

I have nothing against anyone who buys them, hell I've bought a few dodgy CDs in the past, but I can't agree he has the right to sell this stuff. Only Stevie and her record company do.

dissention

08-22-2005, 03:22 PM

It doesn't make it "alright." Like I said before, none of this is legit no matter how you break it down or legitimize one thing over the other (e.g. selling vs. trading). Strangely enough, this issue only matters to fans, not Stevie's record label. If that were the case, they would be shutting down eBay auctions and scouring message boards now, like they do for other artists.

Considering how your site is monitored by Warners and Stevie's people, I suggest advertising the DVDs there so that you can gauge their reaction.

sodascouts

08-22-2005, 05:47 PM

Well, if you go there, you can just download them for free. That's how all the "good" fans do it :thumbsup:

That's great! Are you torrenting them?

LiquidBlue5000

08-22-2005, 05:58 PM

Point being that he shouldn't be selling bootlegs. If you disagree, that's fine, but he's no different than the people who sell bootlegs on eBay.

No, there is a distinct difference... for the most part, the morons who sell bootlegs on Ebay have downloaded those shows from various websites or have traded for them with other traders.. then they turn around and try to make a buck off of fans who are unaware of these existing traders who will send them for free... so these "sellers" try to make money off someone else's bootleg...

Bill, as an example, is the creator of the bootleg, so if ANYONE has the right to sell that boot, it should be him because he put the time and effort to make the boot possible..

i don't know if Bill sells on Ebay, but i don't believe he does...

BTFLCHLD

09-11-2005, 11:29 AM

recd the vegas 8/6 dvd and worth every single penny...from the artwork, quality of cd, quality of recording...LOVE IT! stevie looks/sounds absolutely amazing! many many thanks to bill for recording/offering and spynote for bringing to my attention :nod:

Stephanie

09-11-2005, 12:11 PM

I could not agree more with this... if someone is going to risk their ass to record a show or several shows in the case of Bill, in my opinion he has the right to sell that show.. it's HIS show.. it's not as if Stevie is putting out a similar show and charging for it as well... once the concert is over, it's over.. there is no more money to be made for Stevie and her people..
If that recorder feels he/she should be compensated for it, then that is their choice... again, it is their product.. they can do what they want with it..

I agree. The person taping the show takes the risk, and therefore the reward, from their show. And I personally don't mind buying the boots I want, especially if I don't have time to get into the whole trading thing. It is convenient sometimes to just buy the shows, at least for me.

Macfanforever

09-11-2005, 12:33 PM

No, there is a distinct difference... for the most part, the morons who sell bootlegs on Ebay have downloaded those shows from various websites or have traded for them with other traders.. then they turn around and try to make a buck off of fans who are unaware of these existing traders who will send them for free... so these "sellers" try to make money off someone else's bootleg...

Bill, as an example, is the creator of the bootleg, so if ANYONE has the right to sell that boot, it should be him because he put the time and effort to make the boot possible..

i don't know if Bill sells on Ebay, but i don't believe he does...

I agree, Those Ebay bozos that downloaded from the Dime or other bittorrent sites are scumbags of the world.Tapers like Bill, he produced it from scratch and taking a chance to get his equipment taken for him.also the costs of wear and tear of the equipment of the tapers, also add the media costs too. I rather trade then buy myself . but sometimes I got to buy.
also add the media costs too.