a tragedy....

[GypsyBoy87]

My "great luck" keeps suprising me, basically, i was at the mall yesturday, doing some back to school shopping, and i forgot to lock my car, i realised this when i came back to it, my first thought was. THINK GOD THE CAR IS STILL HERE!, but after i got in and was relaxed, i descited i wanted a lil Rock A Little , i reach to the passenger seat for my CD's, and...well there not there, and i have come realise that they were STOLEN! within that CD case there was EVERYONE of my stevie solo CD's Bella Donna - Street angel, Troubel in shangri-la was at home, along with the enchanted box set, and most of my fleetwood stuff, i am still very very very very upset about this, my main reason for posting this on here, is i was thinking, maybe some of my fellow ledgies could maybe give me some support right now, i cant go much longer without hearing some of my stevie songs, THANK GOD FOR ENCHANTED! i can still here all the songs on that, but i need my songs back...could you guys maybe send me some if that is possible? just PM me if you could help, anything would be apprectated, i have some stuff on my computer i could trade with if you like, you could also email me at [email protected], and lets just say that i will DEFF owe ANYONE who helps me out in this depressing time thanks for anything, and i hope whoever out there has my CD's is treating them with love and respect just like i did.... :( , why did this have to happen to me!!! ughhh....im gona try and relax a lil, thanks again for anything! - Grayson

[[email protected]]

Hi Grayson,
That really bites.
Do you want songs sent via Email or a cd in the mail?
Please let me know...~Barbara




My "great luck" keeps suprising me, basically, i was at the mall yesturday, doing some back to school shopping, and i forgot to lock my car, i realised this when i came back to it, my first thought was. THINK GOD THE CAR IS STILL HERE!, but after i got in and was relaxed, i descited i wanted a lil Rock A Little , i reach to the passenger seat for my CD's, and...well there not there, and i have come realise that they were STOLEN! within that CD case there was EVERYONE of my stevie solo CD's Bella Donna - Street angel, Troubel in shangri-la was at home, along with the enchanted box set, and most of my fleetwood stuff, i am still very very very very upset about this, my main reason for posting this on here, is i was thinking, maybe some of my fellow ledgies could maybe give me some support right now, i cant go much longer without hearing some of my stevie songs, THANK GOD FOR ENCHANTED! i can still here all the songs on that, but i need my songs back...could you guys maybe send me some if that is possible? just PM me if you could help, anything would be apprectated, i have some stuff on my computer i could trade with if you like, you could also email me at [email protected], and lets just say that i will DEFF owe ANYONE who helps me out in this depressing time thanks for anything, and i hope whoever out there has my CD's is treating them with love and respect just like i did.... :( , why did this have to happen to me!!! ughhh....im gona try and relax a lil, thanks again for anything! - Grayson

[LiquidBlue5000]

My "great luck" keeps suprising me, basically, i was at the mall yesturday, doing some back to school shopping, and i forgot to lock my car, i realised this when i came back to it, my first thought was. THINK GOD THE CAR IS STILL HERE!, but after i got in and was relaxed, i descited i wanted a lil Rock A Little , i reach to the passenger seat for my CD's, and...well there not there, and i have come realise that they were STOLEN! within that CD case there was EVERYONE of my stevie solo CD's Bella Donna - Street angel, Troubel in shangri-la was at home, along with the enchanted box set, and most of my fleetwood stuff, i am still very very very very upset about this, my main reason for posting this on here, is i was thinking, maybe some of my fellow ledgies could maybe give me some support right now, i cant go much longer without hearing some of my stevie songs, THANK GOD FOR ENCHANTED! i can still here all the songs on that, but i need my songs back...could you guys maybe send me some if that is possible? just PM me if you could help, anything would be apprectated, i have some stuff on my computer i could trade with if you like, you could also email me at [email protected], and lets just say that i will DEFF owe ANYONE who helps me out in this depressing time thanks for anything, and i hope whoever out there has my CD's is treating them with love and respect just like i did.... :( , why did this have to happen to me!!! ughhh....im gona try and relax a lil, thanks again for anything! - Grayson


Grayson, i'm sorry to hear about what happened... but if any one of us sent you the tracks from those CD's, it would be illegal.. it's copyrighted material... trading bootlegs is one thing, but trading official releases is quite another.. i personally have received emails from people asking me to send them official releases.. i'm like "umm, no"...

I know it's a bitch, but you're better off just re-buying the CD's that you lost.. if you want a good deal on them, always check Ebay or a used CD warehouse type place..

[Dark Angel]

Grayson, i'm sorry to hear about what happened... but if any one of us sent you the tracks from those CD's, it would be illegal.. it's copyrighted material... trading bootlegs is one thing, but trading official releases is quite another.. i personally have received emails from people asking me to send them official releases.. i'm like "umm, no"...

I know it's a bitch, but you're better off just re-buying the CD's that you lost.. if you want a good deal on them, always check Ebay or a used CD warehouse type place..

I have to agree with Brian on this one. You might want to check www.half.com, they usually have used CDs fairly cheap. I am however, sorry about the theft. That would seriously suck.

[strandinthewind]

My "great luck" keeps suprising me, basically, i was at the mall yesturday, doing some back to school shopping, and i forgot to lock my car, i realised this when i came back to it, my first thought was. THINK GOD THE CAR IS STILL HERE!, but after i got in and was relaxed, i descited i wanted a lil Rock A Little , i reach to the passenger seat for my CD's, and...well there not there, and i have come realise that they were STOLEN! within that CD case there was EVERYONE of my stevie solo CD's Bella Donna - Street angel, Troubel in shangri-la was at home, along with the enchanted box set, and most of my fleetwood stuff, i am still very very very very upset about this, my main reason for posting this on here, is i was thinking, maybe some of my fellow ledgies could maybe give me some support right now, i cant go much longer without hearing some of my stevie songs, THANK GOD FOR ENCHANTED! i can still here all the songs on that, but i need my songs back...could you guys maybe send me some if that is possible? just PM me if you could help, anything would be apprectated, i have some stuff on my computer i could trade with if you like, you could also email me at [email protected], and lets just say that i will DEFF owe ANYONE who helps me out in this depressing time thanks for anything, and i hope whoever out there has my CD's is treating them with love and respect just like i did.... :( , why did this have to happen to me!!! ughhh....im gona try and relax a lil, thanks again for anything! - Grayson

:eek: - that sucks :nod: Check with your insurance company (homeowners and auto) - also check with the mall regarding their liability insurance (this happened on their property and they could be liable) - you may be able to get some money back through one of those ways.

Good Luck and I am sorry this happened.

[STEVEHEDRICK]

you should always lock you stuff up! too bad but you have to learn from your mistakes.

[ontheEdgeof17]

you should always lock you stuff up! too bad but you have to learn from your mistakes.

:mad:

Mistakes happen. It's not like he left his car unlocked to get stuff stolen. :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

Yeah - that really sucks - even if his car had been locked - thieves are thieves...if they wanted those cds- they would have gotten the cds :distress:

Sorry about your loss, dude -that really sucks. But totally check out used cd places -they always seem to have Stevie cds :o

[Macfanforever]

Grayson, Ii'm sorry to hear about what happened.That really sucks. my car has been robbed at a concert back in 1998. no not at Stevie's Enchanted show,It was all day affair, on a saturday,I just got back from weeks of seeing Stevie on her Enchanted tour.Friday nites Camden show was the last show I went to see, but I pickup some tickets a month earlier
for a Countrymusic Fest from a local Radio station is puting it on here in my state.so coming home at 5:30am saturday morning from Camden NJ didn't give me a chance to clean the car out. I had to get some sleep,so I left the stuff in the car "big mistake" because saturdays event starts at 12 noon.so I dragged myself to the show. and I took my camera and recorder into the show. when I got back to my car.I notice some of my stuff was moved around. and some toll change was missing.so I took inventory of everything to find out I was missing my camera flashhead , hum my Stevie tape collection was still here, wow my camcorder was untouched, my portable colortv boombox was still in the backseat. all the camera attachments were still in the camera case except the darn flashhead was missing.well I have to say I lucked out on this one, they could of wipe me out clean. $2000 worth..
I don't understand why they only took a cheap camera flashhead and some
pocket change only, hum.They must of jimmy the cardoor open from the passenger side, I noticed the window was open a hair at the top.
I know the car was locked when I left.
I sorry about your Stevie collection lost. I know it sucks, and the insurance won't cover it , because of the high deductable, so a couple of trips to Walmart they have the cheapest prices on cd's .so I learn myself to take everything out , roll up windows all the way and lockup.


P.S. the Countryfest was awesome.

[GypsySorcerer]

Sorry to hear about that. :( As others have said, check out ebay or half.com. You should be able to get them used pretty cheap. :nod:

[markolas]

Grayson, i'm sorry to hear about what happened... but if any one of us sent you the tracks from those CD's, it would be illegal.. it's copyrighted material...

Blah, blah, blah...this almost makes me want to e-mail him the songs myself. ;)

[amber]

Blah, blah, blah...this almost makes me want to e-mail him the songs myself. ;)
:lol: :laugh:

He's right though. But, of course, it would be okay for me to send him all my CD's that I've already bought. Not that I would, but I considered it for a moment when you said that, since all my songs are on my computer anyways, and I don't have a car, so I don't need them there... :p

Hey, dude - so sorry about that. People are thieving assholes, it's true. Ask all my previous bikes, my car stereo, and my friend's purse.
:xoxo:

[LiquidBlue5000]

Blah, blah, blah...this almost makes me want to e-mail him the songs myself. ;)


go right ahead... just keep in mind that you never know who you may be sending OFFICIALLY RELEASED MATERIAL to.. mmmmk? :wavey:

[Nixxxed]

but if any one of us sent you the tracks from those CD's, it would be illegal.. it's copyrighted material... trading bootlegs is one thing, but trading official releases is quite another..

But you said in the other thread that you have no problem with people selling bootlegs... Confused... :confused:

[markolas]

go right ahead... just keep in mind that you never know who you may be sending OFFICIALLY RELEASED MATERIAL to.. mmmmk? :wavey:

Are you one of RCIAA's goons, or something? :laugh:

[Macfanforever]

Hey Grayson. If you don't mind having used ones, I forgot to mention earlier, check the fleamarkets and used record shops. it's cheaper then Walmart.
but I know Stevie won't make a penny off it.

[SillyDreamer]

I actually found most of my stevie collection on amazon.com used. It's less hassle than bidding on eBay, and shipping is a flat $2.50 which beats the pants off the highway robbery most ebay sellers are asking. I was able to get pretty much all of Stevie's solo career in this way for around $30. Hope this helps.

[LiquidBlue5000]

But you said in the other thread that you have no problem with people selling bootlegs... Confused... :confused:


bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material.. record companies don't give a crap about bootlegs.. they DO however care about file-sharing COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL which prevents them from making additional sales... there is a BIG difference between a bootlegger selling his bootlegs vs. a person sharing or selling officially released material.... if record companies honestly cared about bootlegs, don't you think Bill for example, would have been arrested and in jail by now? ... there is a huge line between the two.. and i stand firmly behind both my points on this issue..

[ryan8472]

Grayson, check yer PM's. :)

[paleshadow]

My "great luck" keeps suprising me, basically, i was at the mall yesturday, doing some back to school shopping, and i forgot to lock my car, i realised this when i came back to it, my first thought was. THINK GOD THE CAR IS STILL HERE!, but after i got in and was relaxed, i descited i wanted a lil Rock A Little , i reach to the passenger seat for my CD's, and...well there not there, and i have come realise that they were STOLEN! within that CD case there was EVERYONE of my stevie solo CD's Bella Donna - Street angel, Troubel in shangri-la was at home, along with the enchanted box set, and most of my fleetwood stuff, i am still very very very very upset about this, my main reason for posting this on here, is i was thinking, maybe some of my fellow ledgies could maybe give me some support right now, i cant go much longer without hearing some of my stevie songs, THANK GOD FOR ENCHANTED! i can still here all the songs on that, but i need my songs back...could you guys maybe send me some if that is possible? just PM me if you could help, anything would be apprectated, i have some stuff on my computer i could trade with if you like, you could also email me at [email protected], and lets just say that i will DEFF owe ANYONE who helps me out in this depressing time thanks for anything, and i hope whoever out there has my CD's is treating them with love and respect just like i did.... :( , why did this have to happen to me!!! ughhh....im gona try and relax a lil, thanks again for anything! - Grayson


Hey Grayson. Sorry to hear about your cd's being stolen. At a SYW show last year I had cd's and some other stuff stolen out of my car. Nothing irreplaceable though. You are a better person than I am though hoping that the person who stole them is treating them with love and respect. I hope the person who broke into my car gets an STD. ;) If you have renters or home owners insurance you can file a claim. Auto insurance won't cover anything stolen out of your car though. Another thing you can do to replace some of these songs/CD's would be to check your local library for them, and then copy them that way. The way I see it, if you already paid for these CD's and they were really stolen, you've already paid for them, so even though technically it is illegal for someone to copy them for you, you already gave your two bits to the record company and artist the first time you purchased them. Anyway, sorry again. Good luck.

[DavidMn]

bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material.. record companies don't give a crap about bootlegs.. they DO however care about file-sharing COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL which prevents them from making additional sales... there is a BIG difference between a bootlegger selling his bootlegs vs. a person sharing or selling officially released material.... if record companies honestly cared about bootlegs, don't you think Bill for example, would have been arrested and in jail by now? ... there is a huge line between the two.. and i stand firmly behind both my points on this issue..
You know, I like your conviction on this one. If there's one thing I cant stand, it's a puss that cant make up their mind. :D

[DavidMn]

I am really careful with the stuff I have. I never leave my car unlocked, but at the same time, we can all make mistakes, believe me, I've made some, especially my last boyfriend, but we wont go there........ :eek:

[dissention]

You know, I like your conviction on this one. If there's one thing I cant stand, it's a puss that cant make up their mind. :D

Even though it's just as illegal to sell and profit from bootlegs as it is to download and give away commercially released material.

[amber]

Even though it's just as illegal to sell and profit from bootlegs as it is to download and give away commercially released material.
Yes, that's true. It's quite illegal. :) That's the downside.
On the upside, bootleggers aren't really cutting into the band's profit.

[trackaghost]

bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material.. record companies don't give a crap about bootlegs..

If record companies don't care about bootlegs, why did the BPI (the British Phonographic Industry) have a big crack down on them about five years ago? I can't imagine the US is much different.

Bootlegs are illegal, even though I love em. People shouldn't be in denial about that fact.
It's not illegal to own them however, BUT it is illegal to sell them. Just because a person recorded a show does not give them copyright on the material.

[trackaghost]

Yes, that's true. It's quite illegal. :) That's the downside.
On the upside, bootleggers aren't really cutting into the band's profit.


That's right. That's why I don't feel guilty about owning bootlegs :nod:

[LiquidBlue5000]

Yes, that's true. It's quite illegal. :) That's the downside.
On the upside, bootleggers aren't really cutting into the band's profit.


Thank You. Not only that, but bootlegs can only further promote an artist and the record companies realize that.. perfect example: I uploaded some mp3's from the Philly show back in June.. a fellow ledgie had downloaded some of the tracks and loved them.. then made the following statement: "I wasn't going to see any of the Stevie/Don shows before i heard these tracks, but i am now"...

Now, i'm not saying that i am single-handedly responsible for getting more fans interested in seeing her shows this year because i bootlegged that show, but i DID get this particular person interested in going.. and who knows how many others..

[DavidMn]

Thank You. Not only that, but bootlegs can only further promote an artist and the record companies realize that.. perfect example: I uploaded some mp3's from the Philly show back in June.. a fellow ledgie had downloaded some of the tracks and loved them.. then made the following statement: "I wasn't going to see any of the Stevie/Don shows before i heard these tracks, but i am now"...

Now, i'm not saying that i am single-handedly responsible for getting more fans interested in seeing her shows this year because i bootlegged that show, but i DID get this particular person interested in going.. and who knows how many others..
Thats an excellent point. thank you for sharing it :thumbsup:

[Nixxxed]

bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material..

But aren't they a recording of a performance of copyrighted material? And, I would think the performance itself is copyrighted in some way, or else anyone could sell their own recordings openly.

How do you feel about bootleg copies of movies that are taped in the theater on opening day, and DVDs of them sold on street corners the next? I don't see much, if any, difference.

if record companies honestly cared about bootlegs, don't you think Bill for example, would have been arrested and in jail by now?

Just because he hasn't been, doesn't mean he won't be. He could be under surveillance right now, and could have been under surveillance for years as they build a long-term airtight case against him. We have no way of knowing, which is why I asked Daniel about his advertisements in the other thread.

... there is a huge line between the two.. and i stand firmly behind both my points on this issue..

Kewl. I'm not trying to change your mind. Just friendly debate. We're on 3 pages now, and no one's called someone else a nasty name. Maybe things are looking up for The Ledge. :laugh: ;)

[amber]

Thank You. Not only that, but bootlegs can only further promote an artist and the record companies realize that.. perfect example: I uploaded some mp3's from the Philly show back in June.. a fellow ledgie had downloaded some of the tracks and loved them.. then made the following statement: "I wasn't going to see any of the Stevie/Don shows before i heard these tracks, but i am now"...

Now, i'm not saying that i am single-handedly responsible for getting more fans interested in seeing her shows this year because i bootlegged that show, but i DID get this particular person interested in going.. and who knows how many others..
Ha, no need to thank me, it's still super illegal. I'm not really debating with you, only saying it's way illegal, just so you know for sure.
I'm not really very opinionated on this subject right now. :)
I'm just sorry the band is too whatever to sell the shows themselves. Cause they should.

[LiquidBlue5000]

How do you feel about bootleg copies of movies that are taped in the theater on opening day, and DVDs of them sold on street corners the next? I don't see much, if any, difference.


There is a big difference... a bootleg copy of a movie is a direct copy of the original performance... the same as if someone would rip "Bella Donna" or "The Wild Heart" and make a CD-R copy of it... i am against it because it is basically stealing from everyone involved in making that project, be it a movie or a CD.. burning a copy of "Bella Donna" is stealing from Stevie... selling a bootleg copy of Stevie's Jones Beach show from this year will not take away from Stevie financially.. and as i stated in my last post, could actually PROMOTE her shows and create more profit for her and everyone else involved... two completely different things..

In fact, the only time in the past 10 years that i have seen a bootleg possibly interfering with official sales of a recording of Stevie or Fleetwood Mac is when the Boston 2003 bootleg surfaced... however, due to its by far inferior quality from the actual release, it wasn't much of a threat, was it? :rolleyes:

Again, there is no more money to made from a concert once the performance is over... i see no problem with a bootlegger selling his recording if there are people out there willing to buy it.. i don't do it, but i'm not gonna hold it against people who do, because i KNOW what is involved in putting a show together.. it's a pain in the ass and very time-consuming... in my opinion, the bootlegger has the right to charge for his time and effort if he/she so chooses to..


Just because he hasn't been, doesn't mean he won't be. He could be under surveillance right now, and could have been under surveillance for years as they build a long-term airtight case against him. We have no way of knowing, which is why I asked Daniel about his advertisements in the other thread.



i bet if Bill advertised that he was selling CD-R copies of Stevie's offically released material, he would be in jail within days.. it wouldn't take months or even years ;)

[amber]

... in my opinion, the bootlegger has the right to charge for his time and effort if he/she so chooses to..

Actually, according to the law, the bootlegger doesn't have a right to do anything, including recording the concert. I understand fully all of your justifications, and I may agree, but the whole thing is just still way illegal. Trackaghost thoughtfully posted the U.S. Copyright Act for you....I believe it's all there, spelled out.... :) Oh, wait, I don't see it now... anyway, you can make a bunch of justifications why it's not wrong, and I may agree, but in the end everyone has to admit that though what they're doing might not seem wrong, it is illegal. So, don't forget to admit that. :laugh:

here's the statute.

(a) Unauthorized Acts.— Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved—
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,
(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or
(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States,
shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Actually, according to the law, the bootlegger doesn't have a right to do anything, including recording the concert. I understand fully all of your justifications, and I may agree, but the whole thing is just still way illegal.

I know it's still illegal.. but then again, so is oral sex in most states ;) :wavey:

[sodascouts]

bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material.. record companies don't give a crap about bootlegs.. they DO however care about file-sharing COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL which prevents them from making additional sales... there is a BIG difference between a bootlegger selling his bootlegs vs. a person sharing or selling officially released material.... if record companies honestly cared about bootlegs, don't you think Bill for example, would have been arrested and in jail by now? ... there is a huge line between the two.. and i stand firmly behind both my points on this issue..

We're all grateful for people who tape and record shows, but you should be aware that recently Don's publicist said that he is highly displeased with all the people bootlegging his shows with Stevie, especially those that sell them. He made such a noise about it that one Eagles message board took down their trading forum.

I don't know how Stevie feels, but I did want to let you know.

[LiquidBlue5000]

We're all grateful for people who tape and record shows, but you should be aware that recently Don's publicist said that he is highly displeased with all the people bootlegging his shows with Stevie, especially those that sell them.


i think only one person out there in the Stevie community recorded his entire set... i recorded 6 of the 10 Stevie/Don shows and not once did i record anything other than the tracks that Stevie sang on... as unpleasant as that may have been for him to know, i'm sure he'll find the strength to move on.. :nod:

[sodascouts]

i think only one person out there in the Stevie community recorded his entire set... i recorded 6 of the 10 Stevie/Don shows and not once did i record anything other than the tracks that Stevie sang on... as unpleasant as that may have been for him to know, i'm sure he'll find the strength to move on.. :nod:

lol! I bet he'd still get pissy about those tracks. He apparently has great anger towards bootleggers!

[trackaghost]

i bet if Bill advertised that he was selling CD-R copies of Stevie's offically released material, he would be in jail within days.. it wouldn't take months or even years ;)

That doesn't always happen, I'm afraid to say. If that were true, the record and movie industry wouldn't be campaigning so hard against illegal copies of films and music. eBay will take down an auction if they discover it's a bootleg or a pirated film, but I bet you any money than seller will be back up and running under a different name within a few days. I see it happen all the time.

This is the relevent part of the US Copyright Act (I took it down before because I thought I came off too anti-bootleg and I'm not):

1101. Unauthorized fixation and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos

(a) Unauthorized Acts. - Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved -
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,
(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or
(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred n the United States, shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.
(b) Definition. - As used in this section, the term "traffic in" means transport, transfer, or otherwise dispose of, to another, as consideration for anything of value, or make or obtain control of with intent to transport, transfer, or dispose of.
(c) Applicability. - This section shall apply to any act or acts that occur
on or after the date of the enactment of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act.
(d) State Law Not Preempted. - Nothing in this section may be construed to annul or limit any rights or remedies under the common law or statutes of any State.

[LiquidBlue5000]

eBay will take down an auction if they discover it's a bootleg or a pirated film, but I bet you any money than seller will be back up and running under a different name within a few days. I see it happen all the time.



if that is the case, then someone from inside Ebay is the seller... if a seller is banned from Ebay, they are no longer allowed to just pick another user name and register again.. Ebay tracks all of their information that even if they sign up again under a different credit card, their information is tracked via the 3-digit security code on the back of every credit card.. it can't happen.. unless a family member or friend of that seller signs up for them..

[trackaghost]

if that is the case, then someone from inside Ebay is the seller... if a seller is banned from Ebay, they are no longer allowed to just pick another user name and register again.. Ebay tracks all of their information that even if they sign up again under a different credit card, their information is tracked via the 3-digit security code on the back of every credit card.. it can't happen.. unless a family member or friend of that seller signs up for them..

Selling pirate copies is a big business. I'm sure some of these people have access to more than one credit card. It can happen, I've seen it happen.

I'm not anti-bootleg, just so you know, but in the UK we have an organisation called FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) and my magazine works closely with them. A lot of people get arrested but a lot of people slip through the net despite the laws.

Selling bootlegs is selling copyrighted material, I'm afraid. Like Amber said, the upside is that it doesn't take away sales of official releases. But I know if I were Stevie or any artist I could tolerate people trading illegal bootlegs but I would hate people profiting illegally from my work. I know a lot of bands feel the same way, like I said before, some (Metallica is one surprisingly enough) even allow audience recordings, but none endorse selling those recordings.

[dissention]

Selling bootlegs is selling copyrighted material, I'm afraid. Like Amber said, the upside is that it doesn't take away sales of official releases. But I know if I were Stevie or any artist I could tolerate people trading illegal bootlegs but I would hate people profiting illegally from my work. I know a lot of bands feel the same way, like I said before, some (Metallica is one surprisingly enough) even allow audience recordings, but none endorse selling those recordings.

Exactly. There are many bands and artists who support people taping them and don't care, but they do have problems with people taping their shows and then selling them. Why should other people make money off of them like that? Not to mention that it stops becoming "all about the music" and into all about the money.