Madformac

[David]

Madformac, please come back to the ledge. You're very important here. I've come to really enjoy & even rely on your knowledge & opinions. Your feelings may have been hurt, I don't know. But you're essential to this board.

PLEASE return.

[trackaghost]

I hope he returns too :(

[GateandGarden]

I also hope he comes back. I think it's sad that people were upset in those threads in the Stevie forum. :distress:

[wondergirl9847]

MFM will still continue to lurk, but he won't be participating. I believe there are many reasons, but the main reason would be the tone of the Ledge lately. :( VERY unfortunate because I know MFM and he's a great friend. Here is some of his PM to me...with his permission to quote.

There have been an awful lot of threads lately that have angered me by their false sentiments or deliberate hatred from some quarters, especially to respected members of this community. It used to be a fun place to come to but I don't get that feeling anymore.

I'll always be grateful for what Marty and Lis have achieved here and I'm sure it will grow even more in popularity . Indeed without the Adelsons I wouldn't have met so many nice people, some of whom I now consider very close friends. But everything has a beginning and an end, an ironic statement, particularly today, and I feel the need to move on. I'll drop in from time to time as a guest to read any band related stuff but consider my posting days over. I'll always be a Mac and Buckingham fan, but I'll just do it quietly from now on.

[DrummerDeanna]

Damn. Thanks for posting that Christy. I, too, have noticed some more negative things afoot as of late - there just seems to be a lot of negativity and that is very sad. I try very hard to contribute to the crap - sometimes I can't help myself and end up getting sucked in.

It sucks that he's not going to be posting anymore though :distress:

[wondergirl9847]

I try very hard to contribute to the crap

You meant to put a "not" in there, didn't you? LOL

I know, Brian (estranged4life) was going to leave, Seteca has a lot going on so he's not around, now MFM....:distress:

Perhaps this is telling me to get a life? LOL

[GypsySorcerer]

He certainly will be missed, but I respect his decision. I have definitely noticed a shift in the board's tone the past several months.

[DrummerDeanna]

You meant to put a "not" in there, didn't you? LOL

I know, Brian (estranged4life) was going to leave, Seteca has a lot going on so he's not around, now MFM....:distress:

Perhaps this is telling me to get a life? LOL


:laugh: :laugh: Oh no - freudian slip? ;) Yes - I meant to put a "not" in there for sure!

Brian was goign to leave??? I know he's got a lot going on - but oh my gosh - that would just be so depressing if he left..Briian!!! DON'T GO!!!!

[wondergirl9847]

I think Brian got bombarded with PM's and emails begging him to not go...so he decided to stay. :) We love ya, B!!

I try to ignore the crap too and if I read something that makes me angry, I go to another board (Keith, Justin, TWoP or something) to cool off.

Just goes to show...WE NEED A LINDSEY SOLO ALBUM AND TOUR NOWWW!!!!!! LOL

[shackin'up]

Did I miss something???? :confused: :confused:

MFM rules. Brian "J" rules bigtime.Which threads got harsh? Was it on the Stevieforum only (i'm not there usually)? I only remember some discussions in the bucksurvivors and that ledgiesurvivorthought, but that wasn't mean was it? :shrug:

[mylittledemon]

Madformac, please come back to the ledge. You're very important here. I've come to really enjoy & even rely on your knowledge & opinions. Your feelings may have been hurt, I don't know. But you're essential to this board.

PLEASE return.

Some of us need to stop being so damned ass-holey, and some of need to stop being so damned sensitive as well.

[DrummerDeanna]

I think Brian got bombarded with PM's and emails begging him to not go...so he decided to stay. :) We love ya, B!!

I try to ignore the crap too and if I read something that makes me angry, I go to another board (Keith, Justin, TWoP or something) to cool off.




Whoa - I totally missed that!!!

Yeah - that is a good method there Christy - I think I will start doing that - going elsewhere to cool off before I get involved in anything stupid. I always wondered how ya did it!

[Johnny Stew]

I, too, have noticed some more negative things afoot as of late - there just seems to be a lot of negativity and that is very sad.
I try very hard (not) to contribute to the crap - sometimes I can't help myself and end up getting sucked in.
I think the negativity started a few years ago, and because the monster was fed, it just kept growing and spawning.

And anytime someone said something about it, they'd get belittled and admonished. Told to "put up or shut up."
Many of those on the receiving end of that have since moved on from the Ledge, while the negativity and aggression continued to build here.

Unfortunately, I let myself get sucked into those arguments far too often as well, and played far too large of a role in them.

Hopefully we can swing things back the other way again.

[wondergirl9847]

Yes, it was on the Stevie Ledge. When people get emotional, they say things they may not mean and it can get VERY heated. That's why if you are sending an angry email to someone, you may wanna put it off for a few days, cool down, then go back and read it before hitting that send button. Not being face to face with people, it's much easier to say silly/stupid things. I'm sure people say things here they would NEVER say in real life, but since everyone is kind of "faceless", it's easier to be mean and hateful, I guess. :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

Yes, it was on the Stevie Ledge. When people get emotional, they say things they may not mean and it can get VERY heated. That's why if you are sending an angry email to someone, you may wanna put it off for a few days, cool down, then go back and read it before hitting that send button. Not being face to face with people, it's much easier to say silly/stupid things. I'm sure people say things here they would NEVER say in real life, but since everyone is kind of "faceless", it's easier to be mean and hateful, I guess. :shrug:

Ain't THAT the truth :nod:

I just recently sent an e-mail to my ex-bf - he sent me one first that in restrospect I'm thinking may have been sent in a drunken stupor...anyway I was PISSED....and I sent an e-mail.

I don't even remember what I said in it...:eek: I really should have thought it through though.

[Johnny Stew]

Yes, it was on the Stevie Ledge.Did MadForMac's decision begin totally with those exchanges the other day in the Stevie Forum?

He posted on the Stevie Forum so extremely infrequently that I just assumed his feelings must have been building for a while, based on various threads throughout the entire Ledge.

A pity either way.

[wondergirl9847]

No, it was a long time coming...but you are right, a pity either way. :(

[dissention]

Did MadForMac's decision begin totally with those exchanges the other day in the Stevie Forum?

He posted on the Stevie Forum so extremely infrequently that I just assumed his feelings must have been building for a while, based on various threads throughout the entire Ledge.

A pity either way.

What happened on the Stevie forum (if no one minds my asking)? I've only read a couple threads in there since last week.

[Johnny Stew]

What happened on the Stevie forum (if no one minds my asking)? I've only read a couple threads in there since last week.Basically, there was a bit of confusion with semantics. In the "Stevie's Dad" thread, LiquidBlue5000 said he thought it would be nice for Stevie's fans to have a "forum to express their sympathies" (I'm paraphrasing).

From the tone of MadForMac's reply, it seemed he took that to mean that LB5000 was calling for an actual separate Ledge forum to be created for those purposes, and stated that the idea was tasteless.
However, LB5000 was meaning "forum" as in an outlet.

Unfortunately, the conversation disinegrated from there, when a simple explanation should have been enough to clear things up.

Maybe it's all of this ungodly heat lately.

[trackaghost]

It's was in the Stevie's dad thread. MFM was just pointing out the fact that Stevie's family needed privacy and that none of us actually knew the man.

While I think it's nice we got to express our sympathy for Stevie, he does have a point. I mean I hope some of those people are as sympathetic to people they actually know in their own lives.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=385273&postcount=151

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=385322&postcount=170

[amber]

Maybe it's all of this ungodly heat lately.
I've been p**** cause it's been about...67? here everyday. And foggy/cloudy. :laugh:
yes, that whole exchange was unfortunate and a bit confusing too.

[GateandGarden]

He certainly will be missed, but I respect his decision. I have definitely noticed a shift in the board's tone the past several months.I agree with every word there. Fairly recently, I had to throw in the towel, though it was for a week only. I know the "I don't really need this in my life; why don't we forget about it" sentiment. Sometimes it's just too much. For me, all it took was about a week to get past it, but I can see how others (especially those who have been around longer--I've only been a Ledgie for a little more than a year) have just had enough. There are so many wonderful things about this board, but I can see how circumstances would make the bad outweigh the good for some. But I am sorry that he plans not to post at all any longer.

[GateandGarden]

I've been p**** cause it's been about...67? here everyday. And foggy/cloudy. :laugh: Wow! The gauge in my mom's car said 116 degrees this afternoon. :shocked: It's like The Day After Tomorrow is starting to become real life, and god help us because that movie sucked. :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

god help us because that movie sucked. :laugh:


:lol: :lol: omg too funny.

It was finally nice here today - rainy and cloudy and COOL all day - it's been so gross and hot and humid...so it was nice to finally have a break and to give my air conditioner a break!!

[The Tower]

Basically, there was a bit of confusion with semantics. In the "Stevie's Dad" thread, LiquidBlue5000 said he thought it would be nice for Stevie's fans to have a "forum to express their sympathies" (I'm paraphrasing).

From the tone of MadForMac's reply, it seemed he took that to mean that LB5000 was calling for an actual separate Ledge forum to be created for those purposes, and stated that the idea was tasteless.
However, LB5000 was meaning "forum" as in an outlet.

Unfortunately, the conversation disinegrated from there, when a simple explanation should have been enough to clear things up.
The whole exchange was a big nothing. I don't understand how people can get so bent out of shape over little things- especially little things on an internet forum. So, they disagreed- big deal. Was it necessary to have the hissy fit and storm off?

I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they refer to the "tone" of the Ledge changing over the last few months. It's all seemed about the same to me. :shrug:

[Serrart]

I try to ignore the crap too and if I read something that makes me angry, I go to another board (Keith, Justin, TWoP or something) to cool off.

I have always tried to do that, I come here mostly to gather informations about my favourite band /singer, read various opinions or exchange point of views with people I don't meet everyday. But last week, I don't know why, I thread made me angry and after thinking for a moment to quit I realized there was no point in giving all this importance to it, life is already tough enough; so I reacted going like Don Quixote in the thread that annoyed me. At least it made me cool off.

By the way, I hope MadForMac will come back soon, I like a lot his posts even if I don't share his opinions about the condolences threads.

Romy

[lbelle1214]

Did I miss something???? :confused: :confused:

MFM rules. Brian "J" rules bigtime.Which threads got harsh? Was it on the Stevieforum only (i'm not there usually)? I only remember some discussions in the bucksurvivors and that ledgiesurvivorthought, but that wasn't mean was it? :shrug:
I must have missed it, too. What's up?

[dissention]

Wow! The gauge in my mom's car said 116 degrees this afternoon. :shocked: It's like The Day After Tomorrow is starting to become real life, and god help us because that movie sucked. :laugh:


Yeah, but Dennis Quaid was hot. :laugh:

[dissention]

The whole exchange was a big nothing. I don't understand how people can get so bent out of shape over little things- especially little things on an internet forum. So, they disagreed- big deal. Was it necessary to have the hissy fit and storm off?

I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they refer to the "tone" of the Ledge changing over the last few months. It's all seemed about the same to me. :shrug:

Beautifully put, my dear.

As far as the threads about Stevie's father are concerned, I think they're created and comments are made by people with their hearts in the right place, but you have to be wary of when enough is enough; of when you cross the line from giving your condolences to getting just a little too personal about the whole thing. I just feel that people should express their well wishes for Stevie and her family during this time, and leave it at that for privacy's sake. And - I find it sad that people feel the need to have arguments in such threads. Have a little respect for the Nicks', people, and don't taint threads like that with personal bull****.

[DeeGeMe]

Amen Dissention, Amen. I couldn't believe the flaming that was going on in that thread. It was both infuriating and depressing. And kinda disgusting to boot.

[strandinthewind]

Beautifully put, my dear.

As far as the threads about Stevie's father are concerned, I think they're created and comments are made by people with their hearts in the right place, but you have to be wary of when enough is enough; of when you cross the line from giving your condolences to getting just a little too personal about the whole thing. I just feel that people should express their well wishes for Stevie and her family during this time, and leave it at that for privacy's sake. And - I find it sad that people feel the need to have arguments in such threads. Have a little respect for the Nicks', people, and don't taint threads like that with personal bull****.

I agree :cool:

[David]

I think the negativity started a few years ago, and because the monster was fed, it just kept growing and spawning.The problem seems to be how negativity is interpreted, or more accurately, categorized. A lot of people get mad (& say so) when someone posts a negative opinion about something relating to the band. You can't have an interesting message board unless people are left alone to post negative things about the topic (although the negative views aren't what make the board interesting -- the wide variety of opinions is what makes the board interesting).

the other type of negativity is the insulting stuff that is directed at other posters. That's a whole different kettle of fish. When it's not just joking around (a few weeks ago, I jokingly called everyone a moron in the survivor threads & I think everyone saw it was a joke), it builds up in a person's mind & can hurt. Some people here are continually ripped new assholes, & it's very personal & quite ugly & I can't understand why they don't run screaming from this place.

[macfanken]

(a few weeks ago, I jokingly called everyone a moron in the survivor threads & I think everyone saw it was a joke)

That was a joke? :shocked:

[Johnny Stew]

It was most definitely the latter type of negativity I was referring to David. :nod:

Though I'd venture to say that some posters do take the opportunity to express negative comments that are outwardly directed at the band (or its members and their songs), but are ultimately meant as jabs towards other Ledgies.

[David]

That was a joke? :shocked:Shut the hell up, you rotten sonofabitch, you!!

I hope Cascadia lets rip & the demons of the Ninth Circle drag you into the abyss! :xoxo:

[Johnny Stew]

I hope Cascadia lets rip & the demons of the Ninth Circle drag you into the abyss!You know, if anyone's going to insult me, I'd want it to be you! :laugh:

[David]

It was most definitely the latter type of negativity I was referring to David. :nod:

Though I'd venture to say that some posters do take the opportunity to express negative comments that are outwardly directed at the band (or its members and their songs), but are ultimately meant as jabs towards other Ledgies.I often think of Valerie Hurter, back in grade school. I never heard her insult a classmate. I know you don't know her, but I wonder where she is nowadays. She'd be about my age (67-68). I hope she's brilliant & alive & blessed & that the words of the wise are as goads to her & that she understands what Epictetus meant by "good."

[David]

You know, if anyone's going to insult me, I'd want it to be you! :laugh:Thank you! But I couldn't possibly insult people who don't live near a major megathrust-type subduction zone.

I mean . . . what would I say? :shrug:

You're probably closer to an intraplate region or, at best, to a strike-slip transform-type zone, & I ask you: How do you build an insult out of that? I could mention something about your lithosphere, I suppose.

[macfanken]

Thank you! But I couldn't possibly insult people who don't live near a major megathrust-type subduction zone.



I think you like that about me... the fact that I live in an area that's susceptible to earthquakes of biblical proportions! :lol:

[tuigirl]

I think a lot of this negativity comes from not being respectful to other people in that there's no /little "self censoring"..this is perhaps more evident with newer Ledgies who might not know the rules, when jumping onto a thread. I'm thinking maybe the "older" Ledgies (those whov'e been around for longer, not nesessarily age) have it more under control. There have been some odd threads of late questioning Ledgie morals/the grossest Ledgie etc, which could be interpreted funny by some, or completely off by others.
It does seem, that while the band is off the road and there's no particular news coming out to discuss in a logical and interesting manner, the threads tend to end up in the gutter..... but utimately, it's up to individuals to keep the tone and content of threads from sinking into the depths, by self control and just thinking of others before hitting that send button

[sodascouts]

I think a lot of this negativity comes from not being respectful to other people in that there's no /little "self censoring"..this is perhaps more evident with newer Ledgies who might not know the rules, when jumping onto a thread. I'm thinking maybe the "older" Ledgies (those whov'e been around for longer, not nesessarily age) have it more under control. There have been some odd threads of late questioning Ledgie morals/the grossest Ledgie etc, which could be interpreted funny by some, or completely off by others.
It does seem, that while the band is off the road and there's no particular news coming out to discuss in a logical and interesting manner, the threads tend to end up in the gutter..... but utimately, it's up to individuals to keep the tone and content of threads from sinking into the depths, by self control and just thinking of others before hitting that send button

You nailed it, Mich. A lot of people say whatever the hell the want to and if hurts or offends anyone, that's their problem. While it's impossible not to tick off people at one point or another (I know I have), and certainly it's no fun to constantly walk on eggshells, there IS such a thing as consideration of others. I mean, at least make an effort. Self-censoring would pretty much solve 95% of the problems here, but suggest that to some people and they rip you a new one. How DARE you try to "limit" them. Their answer: Just stop reading it! OK, fine. Here you have an example of someone who did just that, and he's not the only one. Too bad the Ledge is the lesser for it.

I'm not one of the Ledgies who's been around for 8 years but I know some who have been and they pretty much have expressed this sentiment to me. There was even a brief time when I felt continually attacked and considered stopping posting, but then I just decided I'd rather duke it out, and I'm glad I did. I'm like that, but not everyone is.

I do agree that this little tiff in the Stevie thread must not have been the reason he's leaving, because it really was just a semantical deal and not that huge. It must have just been the straw that broke the camel's back.

That said, I still think the Ledge is THE definitive Mac board. While perhaps it's not at the best place right now, it's certainly still enjoyable in many ways. I still find it fun for the most part. Also, it's very possible that as time passes, the pendulum will swing back up again and all the pettiness, rudeness, gutter-sniping, and generalized moronic behavior will die down. You know, everything goes in cycles. ;) So let's all hang in there!

[estranged4life]

I know, Brian (estranged4life) was going to leave

time to time, Especially with all the negativity on here as of late (Which is minor to the stress in my life on the "other side of the mirror...errr...Screen").

As of late this has been the most negative I have ever seen the Ledge since I started posting here 4 years ago.

I dont need anymore negativity in my life...I post here out of some kinda "wack-a-loon self-preservation" therapy if you say, Makes me feel like I can connect with the folkz here instead of always feeling there's only NOW 1 person in the whole world who I connect with.

I also stayed just because I felt welcomed and a slight bit needed here...Being needed at this time in my life is something I openly welcome since the one person who needed me the most is no longer walking with us mortals.

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge :nod:

[GateandGarden]

Also, it's very possible that as time passes, the pendulum will swing back up again and all the pettiness, rudeness, gutter-sniping, and generalized moronic behavior and will die down. You know, everything goes in cycles. ;) So let's all hang in there!I think there needs to be a change, too. Although, of the things you mentioned, I welcome some of the moronic behavior because I think that as long as it isn't intended to be offensive it has the potential to be a great means of escape from the real world, something I've been seeking out a lot in the past couple of months. I have to disagree (though I know you didn't say this) that the grossest/immoral threads have anything to do with the rift I've observed, but I could be wrong. But I really don't think that anything Bobo has started has been responsible. I thought it was pretty clear that he means no offense to anyone; he likes to make trouble in very harmless ways, IMO.

In my mind, the root of the problem are some of the more serious quarrels, and not the ones where you get the impression that the parties understand one another and just want a healthy debate but the passive aggressive or just plain aggressive ones. The worst thing for me was watching the whole Amber versus Lux & Darrelle thing play out. Actually, it was pretty painful for me. I think it's an example of something that shouldn't have been public. I know I am guilty of that, too, though. I shouldn't have started what was a serious argument with you not too long ago in one of those Ledge forums in that moderator thread. It seems like too many of those types of quarrels are being played out in public and maybe we would all be more comfortable if they didn't. If those things were taken care of privately and we didn't all know the details, then, ignorance would be bliss? :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

I also stayed just because I felt welcomed and a slight bit needed here...Being needed at this time in my life is something I openly welcome since the one person who needed me the most is no longer walking with us mortals.

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge :nod:You certainly are welcome and "a slight bit needed here," Brian. :xoxo: At the same time, I don't want anyone to feel bad about leaving if he or she is no longer happy with it.

[chiliD]

I left a LONNNNNNNG time ago...my computer just keeps coming back and posts for me. "HAL" has taken over. ;)


..."Dave, will I dream?"


MFM...get back here! :thumbsup: (I know exactly how you feel...I've felt it more times than I can count!)

[GypsySorcerer]

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge :nod:
I am glad you decided to stick around, Brian. :nod:

Personally, I think the Stevie forum has been a wreck since the May Vegas shows. :shrug:

[dissention]

I am glad you decided to stick around, Brian. :nod:

Me, too. Especially if coming here gives you a little bit of comfort with all of the terrible things going on, Brian.

Personally, I think the Stevie forum has been a wreck since the Mag Vegas shows. :shrug:

:nod: I think it's very hard to dig through that thing.

Personally, I wish Lindsey, Stevie, or the Mac would do something so that we'd have something new to talk about, dammit. :laugh:

[tuigirl]

Nancy..yes, it was the last straw that broke the camels back and when MFM says he's gonna do something, then he does, with a passion!
I can't see any amount of begging (i've tried) or cajoling will make him change his mind unfortunately to return as anything other than a lurker... :xoxo:

Personally, I wish Lindsey, Stevie, or the Mac would do something so that we'd have something new to talk about, dammit....haha..exactly Dissention!

[GypsySorcerer]

Personally, I wish Lindsey, Stevie, or the Mac would do something so that we'd have something new to talk about, dammit. :laugh:

Seriously. That way, we all could bicker about who owned the album more, Stevie or Lindsey. ;)

[DrummerDeanna]

time to time, Especially with all the negativity on here as of late (Which is minor to the stress in my life on the "other side of the mirror...errr...Screen").

As of late this has been the most negative I have ever seen the Ledge since I started posting here 4 years ago.

I dont need anymore negativity in my life...I post here out of some kinda "wack-a-loon self-preservation" therapy if you say, Makes me feel like I can connect with the folkz here instead of always feeling there's only NOW 1 person in the whole world who I connect with.

I also stayed just because I felt welcomed and a slight bit needed here...Being needed at this time in my life is something I openly welcome since the one person who needed me the most is no longer walking with us mortals.

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge :nod:


You are more than "slightly needed" around here, Brian - we love you!!!!

I can see where negativity is something you absolutely don't need in your life right now though - hopefully we can all swing the Ledge in a better direction :o

I'm glad you decided to stick around...

[dissention]

Seriously. That way, we all could bicker about who owned the album more, Stevie or Lindsey. ;)

Or whose voice sounds more ragged. Or why Lindsey feels the need to overproduce his songs to the point where they're next to impossible to play live. Or why Stevie continues to write songs about Lindsey even though they broke up almost 30 years ago.

C'mon, guys, throw us a bone. :angel:

[strandinthewind]

That was a joke? :shocked:

not in your case :p :p :p :p :p :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Personally, I think the Stevie forum has been a wreck since the May Vegas shows. :shrug:

Interesting. Could you elaborate? If not, then that's fine. :)

[GypsySorcerer]

Interesting. Could you elaborate? If not, then that's fine. :)

When people had differences of opinion on the Vegas shows, i.e. whether she lived up to expectations or not, I thought things were getting a little out of hand. (The Jim Ladd interview kept being thrown around.) I had no objections to the opinions themselves; we were talking about Stevie and her music/shows. But I thought the arguments became more like personal attacks. ("You will kiss Stevie's ass no matter what", etc.) I've also noticed some personal attacks in seemingly innocent threads, such as the Survivor ones. Then, the Peter Jennings thread snowballed into another huge debacle. Just too much drama for me. JMO, of course.

:wavey:

[GateandGarden]

Interesting. Could you elaborate? If not, then that's fine. :)I was thinking that she meant it's too much to dig through, as Josh said.

[dissention]

Interesting. Could you elaborate? If not, then that's fine. :)

I'm not Krista, but at one point, there were around 40 threads solely about those Vegas shows. Greg even counted them. :laugh: I suggested merging them to tidy the board up, but was shot down. Now, there's thread after thread about Stevie's father. Why, I've no clue, when one or two would suffice. I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO.

[BTFLCHLD]

I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO. agreed :nod:
sumtimes i dont bother :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

I'm not Krista, but at one point, there were around 40 threads solely about those Vegas shows. Greg even counted them. :laugh: I suggested merging them to tidy the board up, but was shot down. Now, there's thread after thread about Stevie's father. Why, I've no clue, when one or two would suffice. I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO.


But at the same time it's also difficult to go wade through a thread that is 6+ pages long. I'm just sayin' :)

[David]

When people had differences of opinion on the Vegas shows, i.e. whether she lived up to expectations or not, I thought things were getting a little out of hand. (The Jim Ladd interview kept being thrown around.) I had no objections to the opinions themselves; we were talking about Stevie and her music/shows.A ledgie should be able to express negativity about the topic of this forum, & should be able to say, "I can't stand the Las Vegas show," without being jumped on in personal ways by the other ledgies. But that's rarely the case. A negative opinion about the TOPIC is construed as either a character flaw or a transgression, & then attacked -- all of which bugs me.

Even now, in this very thread, people are complaining about the "negativity" & I don't know for sure what they're talking about: are they talking about personal attacks? or about negative opinions about the subject(s) of the board?

If saying something negative -- however harsh -- about Fleetwood Mac is considered a serious problem by the site owners or moderators, or by the poster community in general here, prohibit it. Just prohibit it now & be done with it. At least then participants know where they stand & what exactly they can say.

But all this reactive crap -- "Why are you so negative about Stevie/Mick/Lindsey/Bekka?" -- about some people's opinions is what incites fights & unhappiness & creates what I call a HUAC atmosphere.

[trackaghost]

I'm not Krista, but at one point, there were around 40 threads solely about those Vegas shows. Greg even counted them. :laugh: I suggested merging them to tidy the board up, but was shot down. Now, there's thread after thread about Stevie's father. Why, I've no clue, when one or two would suffice. I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO.

I couldn't agree more, the Vegas threads were ridiculous!

And as for the threads about Stevie's dad. I just don't get it. Imagine if every Ledgie started a thread called "My thoughts on Stevie's dad". After the main "Stevie's Dad" thread, I'm not sure there's anything left to say.

[The Tower]

I'm not Krista, but at one point, there were around 40 threads solely about those Vegas shows. Greg even counted them. :laugh: I suggested merging them to tidy the board up, but was shot down. Now, there's thread after thread about Stevie's father. Why, I've no clue, when one or two would suffice. I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO.
But at the same time it's also difficult to go wade through a thread that is 6+ pages long. I'm just sayin' :)
Of course, everyone could just not post and then we wouldn't have anything to worry about... :rolleyes:

I like reading people's opinions. If I don't feel like slogging through a thread, I'll either skip it or maybe skim through it to see if there's anything of merit there. I like it when there's lots of debate and things get heated- that's what makes this place fun. If I wanted to read a sycophant board, I'd probably go somewhere else. Seriously, could you imagine how ridiculous this place would be if the threads read like this?:

"Did you see Stevie- wasn't she great?"
"Yeah, I loved her."
"Me too, I love her."
"Stevie RAWKS!"
"Long live the Goddess!"

and on, and on, and on..... If you want to see this type of board in action, go read the Heart Music board at the official site. It's the biggest yawn ever. No discourse, no commentary, no nothing.

Sometimes things get out of hand. I thought the whole Brown Eye era with 1/2 Insane around here was pretty bad. I don't like to see people start to feel bad about themselves because of specific things posted that only occur here. While I could give a **** about those two idiots, some of the personal things they said to specific people were not cool.

If someone can't handle it if Stevie or Lindsey or any artist gets dressed down, then they really need to take some inventory and reassess just how important these kinds of discussions are to one's life. If one is boo-hoo'ing because someone said Stevie looked fat or sounded croaky, perhaps one might want to take a step back.

I, for one, love the concept of trying to challenge Stevie and her fans to consistently demand great product and great performances from her. Her personal life? Meh. Don't really care about that.

[GateandGarden]

I was thinking that she meant it's too much to dig through, as Josh said.
Oh, Krista, I'm sorry that I replied when you had already explained! :sorry:

[GateandGarden]

Sometimes things get out of hand. I thought the whole Brown Eye era with 1/2 Insane around here was pretty bad. I don't like to see people start to feel bad about themselves because of specific things posted that only occur here. While I could give a **** about those two idiots, some of the personal things they said to specific people were not cool.That was a pretty aggravating time, though I've found that for me it's more painful when people that I really do care about on this board wind up in some huge fight that is usually a misunderstanding of some sort and then people can't take back what they've said, etc. Those two were sometimes just plain mean and it was hard to take them seriously.

[GateandGarden]

Even now, in this very thread, people are complaining about the "negativity" & I don't know for sure what they're talking about: are they talking about personal attacks? or about negative opinions about the subject(s) of the board?I shouldn't speak for others so I'll say that I am talking about the personal attacks when I say "negativity." I certainly don't think there should be a rule against critcizing the band or its members. And I think there should be a way for people to respectfully disagree with one another's comments without chaos ensuing.

[DrummerDeanna]

I was just stating that it's hard to go through a long-ass thread - that's it. I also think it's ridiculous to have 9837473 threads about the same thing :)

All in all - I find the Ledge enjoyable- I don't get deterred from the long threads - as Tower said - if I don't feel like slogging through a thread I won't :)

I also agree that it would be boring as hell is everyone agreed all the time.

What i have/had a problem with is more what tower referred to - the BrownEyes/1/2 Insane phase...

There seemed to be a period there where we had a higher than usual troll count - that got really old and pretty depressing.

[madformac]

Whoooow... Where do I start?!?!?!

OK. I'll start at the top and go from there.

David. Thankyou for starting a thread in my honour.. :thumbsup: I'm surprised anybody really noticed me missing actually.. But anyway, the reason I'm replying to this is out of courtesy and respect for some of the Ledgie "old school" if you will. I had planned to slip away quietly, a dawn departure if you like but alas, with David's thread I feel a need to speak up and clarify my leaving.

David, Sharon, Hillary, Christy, Deanna, Krista, Romy, Michele, Amber, Gerald and all the others I've not mentioned that have expressed goodwill. Thanks for your thoughts.

The truth of the matter is it's been a long time coming anyway. In my relative four years here I can honestly say I've had a lot of fun and achieved things I probably wouldn't have done without the Ledge. It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place. Having spotted me as Fleetwood Mac fan on another site he suggested I come here and hang out. It's been a while now to say the least! Because of The Ledge I've made some very close and lifelong friends, I've met Peter Green.. Twice... Kinda met Lindsey and played his Turner :laugh: Chatted online with Bob Welch, Mick Fleetwood, Ken Calliat and others. I've seen some cool Ledgies come and go (CarneVaca springs to mind, and where is BellaDonnaGypsy these days?) and I've seen some unsavory characters depart (Well ArizonaRanger anyway). So it's been good and I thank Marty and Lis for everything they have done and continue to do with the best, and let's face it, the REAL official Fleetwood Mac site. I'm sure it will continue to grow and thrive.

But lately there has been an undercurrent. Its nobody's fault and it happens when any community increases its population drastically in a short space of time. What I'm talking about is respect for people. There has always been and always will be the odd squabble or difference of opinions. It happens. Most of the time it's good for debate and it's healthy interaction. Lately there have been an awful lot of issues where individuals have been personally attacked for their views. I'm sure most substantial posters here will have been name called or attacked at some point. Some of it is just having fun, but some is not, there is a line to be drawn. It's easy to take a cheap shot on a public forum. You will never meet the person in question, you will never look them in the eye, face them off. I think it's important for me to stress that I don't really get "hurt" or "offended" but I do get sick and tired of consistently reading posts with venom directed at individuals. I'm not blaming the moderators. They do a great job, something I wouldn't have the patience to do, but I would hate to see the boards go the way of the official Pink Floyd forum and get closed because of constant personal attacks and even threats resulting in legal action.

For me the thread in question that I posted on in the Stevie Nicks forum was indeed the final straw. I would admit my phrasing was probably a little strong given the circumstances, however given my experience of reading various Stevie Nicks threads where things have totally lost a grip on reality and entered the realms of self delusion, I sensed the same thing could happen here and given the nature of the thread I didn't want that to be the case. For the benefit of doubt, I'm going to say that the use of the word "forum" instead of "thread" by the thread starter was misinterpreted by myself. It was sort of clarified that it's use was a mistake later in the thread by which time I had been personally attacked by the same poster. Had it been clarified with an apology and said in a considered way I would have probably accepted and reciprocated, as is the way sometimes, but that didn't happen. I'm not going to name names or retaliate, it's not been my way in the past and I'm not going to start now. I respected the wishes of the person in question not to post on the thread and indeed got the reply I had expected anyway. I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict. I do have thoughts about what was said but I'm not going to print them here. :D

As for me being "cold" and maybe not having any sympathy for the family of the deceased, well, my father was overdosed in hospital by a nurse and died right in front of my eyes within the hour at the age of 58. If that wasn't enough I had to be interviewed by the Police in case of it being a murder scene. There was a public enquiry, the nurse was transferred to another hospital and promoted as punishment.... I'm not looking for sympathy here, the only reason I pointed that out is to give you a little bit of an insight into my personal life which is something I don't talk about online. We all have things we have to deal with. Brian shared his loss and we have all tried to support him the best we can in our small way. I keep mine private. It's probably easier to make assumptions about somebody online when you don't know about thier personal lives. We are all different. Christy shares her life events and becuase of it we maybe feel we know her better than other Ledgies.

So the response to my post was typical of the sentiment I've felt recently. I expect some of the same in response to this but I felt I owed it to some of you to say goodbye properly given that my absence was mentioned.

I will read the boards from time to time, interestingly within hours of my final post my I.P Address was blocked from this site, I couldn't even read it until I changed my address. I would love to know how or why or who did it but it may remain a mystery to me (no pun intended).

So I'm off.. It's been a good ride but I think it's time for me to bow out now. If anybody wants me to answer a question I'll stay active on this thread only for a short time. Also if anybody wants to stay in touch then please PM me your email addy.

Thanks and goodbye all. :wavey:

JB.

[Serrart]

I was just stating that it's hard to go through a long-ass thread - that's it. I also think it's ridiculous to have 9837473 threads about the same thing :)

All in all - I find the Ledge enjoyable- I don't get deterred from the long threads - as Tower said - if I don't feel like slogging through a thread I won't :)

I also agree that it would be boring as hell is everyone agreed all the time.

What i have/had a problem with is more what tower referred to - the BrownEyes/1/2 Insane phase...

There seemed to be a period there where we had a higher than usual troll count - that got really old and pretty depressing.

I totally agree, negative as positive opinions if respectfully expressed are equally interesting, IMO. It's when people get nasty just for the sake of a moment of visibility that I lose interest, but it happens in real life so it's normal to see it happening from time to time also on a message board.

About the multiplication of threads on Vegas gigs or Stevie's dad, I've noticed that generally an 'event' brings a lot of lurkers or new members to post, and it seems to me to start a thread is most commonly their way to be sure to be read. I don't see a big harm in that.

Romy

[dissention]

Thanks and goodbye all. :wavey:


Hopefully you come and jump back in eventually, you were an asset to the board (your knowledge of guitars, etc.) and have a fun sense of humor. :woohoo:

[Serrart]

Whoooow... Where do I start?!?!?!

OK. I'll start at the top and go from there.

David. Thankyou for starting a thread in my honour.. :thumbsup: I'm surprised anybody really noticed me missing actually.. But anyway, the reason I'm replying to this is out of courtesy and respect for some of the Ledgie "old school" if you will. I had planned to slip away quietly, a dawn departure if you like but alas, with David's thread I feel a need to speak up and clarify my leaving.

David, Sharon, Hillary, Christy, Deanna, Krista, Romy, Michele, Amber, Gerald and all the others I've not mentioned that have expressed goodwill. Thanks for your thoughts.

The truth of the matter is it's been a long time coming anyway. In my relative four years here I can honestly say I've had a lot of fun and achieved things I probably wouldn't have done without the Ledge. It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place. Having spotted me as Fleetwood Mac fan on another site he suggested I come here and hang out. It's been a while now to say the least! Because of The Ledge I've made some very close and lifelong friends, I've met Peter Green.. Twice... Kinda met Lindsey and played his Turner :laugh: Chatted online with Bob Welch, Mick Fleetwood, Ken Calliat and others. I've seen some cool Ledgies come and go (CarneVaca springs to mind, and where is BellaDonnaGypsy these days?) and I've seen some unsavory characters depart (Well ArizonaRanger anyway). So it's been good and I thank Marty and Lis for everything they have done and continue to do with the best, and let's face it, the REAL official Fleetwood Mac site. I'm sure it will continue to grow and thrive.

But lately there has been an undercurrent. Its nobody's fault and it happens when any community increases its population drastically in a short space of time. What I'm talking about is respect for people. There has always been and always will be the odd squabble or difference of opinions. It happens. Most of the time it's good for debate and it's healthy interaction. Lately there have been an awful lot of issues where individuals have been personally attacked for their views. I'm sure most substantial posters here will have been name called or attacked at some point. Some of it is just having fun, but some is not, there is a line to be drawn. It's easy to take a cheap shot on a public forum. You will never meet the person in question, you will never look them in the eye, face them off. I think it's important for me to stress that I don't really get "hurt" or "offended" but I do get sick and tired of consistently reading posts with venom directed at individuals. I'm not blaming the moderators. They do a great job, something I wouldn't have the patience to do, but I would hate to see the boards go the way of the official Pink Floyd forum and get closed because of constant personal attacks and even threats resulting in legal action.

For me the thread in question that I posted on in the Stevie Nicks forum was indeed the final straw. I would admit my phrasing was probably a little strong given the circumstances, however given my experience of reading various Stevie Nicks threads where things have totally lost a grip on reality and entered the realms of self delusion, I sensed the same thing could happen here and given the nature of the thread I didn't want that to be the case. For the benefit of doubt, I'm going to say that the use of the word "forum" instead of "thread" by the thread starter was misinterpreted by myself. It was sort of clarified that it's use was a mistake later in the thread by which time I had been personally attacked by the same poster. Had it been clarified with an apology and said in a considered way I would have probably accepted and reciprocated, as is the way sometimes, but that didn't happen. I'm not going to name names or retaliate, it's not been my way in the past and I'm not going to start now. I respected the wishes of the person in question not to post on the thread and indeed got the reply I had expected anyway. I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict. I do have thoughts about what was said but I'm not going to print them here. :D

As for me being "cold" and maybe not having any sympathy for the family of the deceased, well, my father was overdosed in hospital by a nurse and died right in front of my eyes within the hour at the age of 58. If that wasn't enough I had to be interviewed by the Police in case of it being a murder scene. There was a public enquiry, the nurse was transferred to another hospital and promoted as punishment.... I'm not looking for sympathy here, the only reason I pointed that out is to give you a little bit of an insight into my personal life which is something I don't talk about online. We all have things we have to deal with. Brian shared his loss and we have all tried to support him the best we can in our small way. I keep mine private. It's probably easier to make assumptions about somebody online when you don't know about thier personal lives. We are all different. Christy shares her life events and becuase of it we maybe feel we know her better than other Ledgies.

So the response to my post was typical of the sentiment I've felt recently. I expect some of the same in response to this but I felt I owed it to some of you to say goodbye properly given that my absence was mentioned.

I will read the boards from time to time, interestingly within hours of my final post my I.P Address was blocked from this site, I couldn't even read it until I changed my address. I would love to know how or why or who did it but it may remain a mystery to me (no pun intended).

So I'm off.. It's been a good ride but I think it's time for me to bow out now. If anybody wants me to answer a question I'll stay active on this thread only for a short time. Also if anybody wants to stay in touch then please PM me your email addy.

Thanks and goodbye all. :wavey:

JB.

Thanks for your post, it helped me to understand better the situation. You've obviously pondered this decision but I'll keep hoping sometime in the future you'll decide to bring your wit and reasoning to the Ledge again.

Romy

[The Tower]

Hopefully you come and jump back in eventually, you were an asset to the board (your knowledge of guitars, etc.) and have a fun sense of humor. :woohoo:
I absolutely agree. :nod:

I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict.
It just seemed to me that there was a very quick "snap" at the time and your "this may be the last time I post here" thing seemed very directly tied to the back and forth that went on in that thread. Yes, I know I can be a drama queen- hissy fit was just my way of describing it.

It's a shame to see a contributor such as you voluntarily leave. For awhile there you were the Official Straight Guy On The Ledge- all the ladies are going to miss you. If the whole of the board isn't jiving for you I can understand- I just hope it isn't a few squabbles that would change your overall perspective.

I hope this is just a lull- see you around. :wavey:

[JazmenFlowers]

I think the negativity started a few years ago, and because the monster was fed, it just kept growing and spawning.

And anytime someone said something about it, they'd get belittled and admonished. Told to "put up or shut up."
Many of those on the receiving end of that have since moved on from the Ledge, while the negativity and aggression continued to build here.

Unfortunately, I let myself get sucked into those arguments far too often as well, and played far too large of a role in them.

Hopefully we can swing things back the other way again.

yeppers :nod: and it's unfortunate. I have been really really close to leaving a time or two. Did once and regretted it for a long time. But I just choose which threads to give my energy to and which ones aren't worth the time. There are times when I just can't NOT respond to something I find offensive or stupid...that's just me, but after that I try to leave the thread alone or avoid it completely. I think there are lots of people here who are assholes and just post for the sake of stirring the cow poo, but you gotta try to overlook them and go on. I try to say my piece and move forward.

[trackaghost]

Well I'm sad to see you go MFM.
I have to say the Stevie forum definitely is the craziest that's for sure, I think that's why I've taken refuge in the relative calm of the Lindsey and Christine forums. It gets very weird when newbies are telling someone like Nancy she's not a fan, because she dares criticise Stevie.

But anyway, I've wandered off the point. I do hope you'll come back. I once stormed off The Ledge after an argument with Gaius, and I was back after a month, but mine definitely was a hissy fit!

[madformac]

I absolutely agree. :nod:

Thanks fellas. Who knows how life will pan out.. Wasn't it Lindsey that said say we'll meet again? :laugh:



It just seemed to me that there was a very quick "snap" at the time and your "this may be the last time I post here" thing seemed very directly tied to the back and forth that went on in that thread. Yes, I know I can be a drama queen- hissy fit was just my way of describing it.

Reading it in retrospect it might have appeared directly linked to that thread although it wasn't. Another Ledgie hinted it on the very same thread. I would have posted a proper farewell but didn't want to go out dramatically although it's turning that way now. :shrug:


It's a shame to see a contributor such as you voluntarily leave. For awhile there you were the Official Straight Guy On The Ledge- all the ladies are going to miss you. If the whole of the board isn't jiving for you I can understand- I just hope it isn't a few squabbles that would change your overall perspective.


Ahh yes. Brian and ChiliD are married. Seteca rarely posts now and I'm off to pastures new.. Sorry Ladies, and there are some very nice ladies here too.. :xoxo: I'm leaving you all in the capable hands of good ol' Gerald... I know he's not wrong ( :D ) when it comes to giving advice to the ladies so listen to his words of advice.. :lol: I can handle squabbles. I just don't want to come home from work and relax by watching unnecessary personal stuff on my screen. It's a choice I've taken.

[chiliD]

It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place.

"fault"?!? :shrug: I never considered the suggestion you come to this place a "fault" :D ...considering how you thrived here for all that time. I think you were (uh...what's with the past-tense, chili?)...ARE a major asset to the Ledges.

I know we'll keep in touch outside of here; but, just to let you know publicly from the standpoint of a fellow Ledgie, I hope that you will consider your departure more of an open-ended "leave of absence", than as a full on permanent departure.

And, ya know...there's always that "other board" where you started out, to go back to. :D

[amber]

But anyway, I've wandered off the point. I do hope you'll come back. I once stormed off The Ledge after an argument with Gaius, and I was back after a month, but mine definitely was a hissy fit!
:lol: :laugh:
MFM - you already know how much I love you. Hope everything works out, and we all get to see you again. Of course!

[Johnny Stew]

I will read the boards from time to time, interestingly within hours of my final post my I.P Address was blocked from this site, I couldn't even read it until I changed my address. I would love to know how or why or who did it but it may remain a mystery to me (no pun intended).Before I go back and reply to other posts, I wanted to quickly comment on the above.

I just double-checked, and the IP address you were using when you posted in the Stevie Forum was not blocked by any of us, nor has it ever been.
None of your IP strings have been.

Also, we have never blocked someone unless they had received a strike (which now comes with a minimum 48 hour "probation") or were banned or "under review" for banning.

I'm not sure exactly what happened to prevent you from viewing/posting here, but I can assure you that you were not blocked by Marty or any of the moderators.

[skcin]

Sorry to hear about your decision, Madormac, but I understand where you're coming from.

[madformac]

"fault"?!? :shrug: I never considered the suggestion you come to this place a "fault" :D ...considering how you thrived here for all that time. I think you were (uh...what's with the past-tense, chili?)...ARE a major asset to the Ledges.

I know we'll keep in touch outside of here; but, just to let you know publicly from the standpoint of a fellow Ledgie, I hope that you will consider your departure more of an open-ended "leave of absence", than as a full on permanent departure.

And, ya know...there's always that "other board" where you started out, to go back to. :D

Hey Steve,

I hope you got my PM the other day.. Drop me an email anyway, I need some help on an unrelated matter... ;)

My departure... Yes, not exactly Lindsey like in it's way but having said that....

The world was calling you away
And your leaving was just a way of staying with what you'd come to say
This pain was a poem slowly written
Torn from the book and cast into a corner of the attic where no one could look
This rage for all to see caught fire and burned all around me till there was nothing left to burn
Now I stand alone in these attic bones and reread that poem all yellowed with age
Tears heal such as healing is so I cast that page into the ashes
But there is no blame, only shades of regret
And those too will fade as the world calls me away

:lol: :lol: :lol: I should be back in about 10 years then...... :laugh:

[madformac]

Before I go back and reply to other posts, I wanted to quickly comment on the above.

I just double-checked, and the IP address you were using when you posted in the Stevie Forum was not blocked by any of us, nor has it ever been.
None of your IP strings have been.

Also, we have never blocked someone unless they had received a strike (which now comes with a minimum 48 hour "probation") or were banned or "under review" for banning.

I'm not sure exactly what happened to prevent you from viewing/posting here, but I can assure you that you were not blocked by Marty or any of the moderators.

Yeah I kinda figured it wasn't done by Marty, Lis or a Mod.. Thanks for clarifying it anyway..

[GateandGarden]

Thank you for taking to the time to type that post for us. I respect and understand your decision not to post any longer. From what you've said, it sounds like you've gotten a lot out of your experience from The Ledge and I'm really glad that it has been so positive in the past four years. I'm sorry that the current tone of the board has made you want to leave, but at the same time, I imagine many of us will be ready to move on eventually. And, of course, if you decide to come back at a later date, I'll be happy to see you. :)

[Johnny Stew]

In regards to multiple threads on the same topic... I have debated how to handle those, but I've never come to a satisfactory conclusion.
This is one of those areas in which Marty leaves it to the moderators' discretion.

I know on many other message boards I visit, any new thread posted that's related to the topic of a previous thread (no matter how old), is immediately deleted or locked.
The mods will post something in regards to, "we've already had a thread on this topic, please use the Search function before creating new topics in the future," and then close the thread.

To me, that just seems rather cold and unwelcoming, especially to new/newer posters who aren't completely familiarized with the boards just yet.

Yes, there were a LOT of Vegas threads, but some seemed to me that they needed to be separate... such as those discussing accomodations and Ledgie meetings.

So the question became: Where do we draw the line? What (if anything) should remain separate, and what should be locked.

Should ALL Vegas-related conversations (to continue using that as an example) be kept to one single thread, no matter what?

Maybe this should be something that the moderators come to an agreement on, so we can all handle this in a consistent way.

[Johnny Stew]

Yeah I kinda figured it wasn't done by Marty, Lis or a Mod.. Thanks for clarifying it anyway..Anytime. :)
I didn't want to leave you with the impression that someone here had blocked you.

[tuigirl]

Well Mac...you've proved me wrong by posting so much! :]
This thread has actually become extremely interesting and hopefully made a few people a little bit more aware of how easily things can affect others.
As for the "official straight guy" award..there can't be too many of you left here on the Ledge.!!!
I'm sure Gerald is more than capable of taking over the helm ;) and looking after all the ladies....

:wavey: See ya 'bout.. :xoxo:

[Hawkeye]

The whole exchange was a big nothing. I don't understand how people can get so bent out of shape over little things- especially little things on an internet forum. So, they disagreed- big deal. Was it necessary to have the hissy fit and storm off?

I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they refer to the "tone" of the Ledge changing over the last few months. It's all seemed about the same to me. :shrug:

I hate saying this, but I agree. Nothing has been different at all here lately except a bit more sadness for a few days when Stevies dad died.

[Johnny Stew]

A ledgie should be able to express negativity about the topic of this forum, & should be able to say, "I can't stand the Las Vegas show," without being jumped on in personal ways by the other ledgies. But that's rarely the case. A negative opinion about the TOPIC is construed as either a character flaw or a transgression, & then attacked -- all of which bugs me.

Even now, in this very thread, people are complaining about the "negativity" & I don't know for sure what they're talking about: are they talking about personal attacks? or about negative opinions about the subject(s) of the board?

If saying something negative -- however harsh -- about Fleetwood Mac is considered a serious problem by the site owners or moderators, or by the poster community in general here, prohibit it. Just prohibit it now & be done with it. At least then participants know where they stand & what exactly they can say.

But all this reactive crap -- "Why are you so negative about Stevie/Mick/Lindsey/Bekka?" -- about some people's opinions is what incites fights & unhappiness & creates what I call a HUAC atmosphere.You make excellent points, no doubt about it.

And I'd certainly hate for the atmosphere here to become such that folks are afraid of saying anything that could even remotely be considered a criticism towards the band.

However, I do think there are many times when a criticism is lobbed at the band, or certain members of the band, not as a means of self-expression, but as a way of jabbing other Ledgies. To simply incite them, or to passive-aggressively insult them and their intelligence.

I think the latter behaviour, the pattern of which becomes quite obvious in a rather short amount of time, has created higher levels of resentment here. Those higher levels of resentment then cause people to react quicker or more harshly than they probably normally would, and perception turns even the most innocuous comment into a personal afront.

But how do you moderate such behaviour? I can't even count how many times I've tried to politely caution people to take others' feelings into consideration before they post, on both sides of the arguments, only to find myself being lambasted for having the gall to call someone on their conduct.

It's difficult when you have no other choice but to rely on people... who should be plenty old enough to know better... to act maturely in their dealings with others.

[GateandGarden]

I hate saying this, but I agree. Nothing has been different at all here lately except a bit more sadness for a few days when Stevies dad died.I honestly don't see how you could say that. Some people have been outright hateful toward each other. Of course I don't want to start an argument about it because that would be painfully ironic, but things are definitely different. There is a lot more hostility, though I keep hoping it's going to go away and I'll wait and see.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Sorry to see you go madformac......us Brits are in short supply on here!

Take care

Pip

[WelshWitchPMD]

I am sorry to see you go. I totally understand how you feel, however. Good luck and maybe we will see you around these parts again.

[sodascouts]

I shouldn't have started what was a serious argument with you not too long ago in one of those Ledge forums in that moderator thread. It seems like too many of those types of quarrels are being played out in public and maybe we would all be more comfortable if they didn't. If those things were taken care of privately and we didn't all know the details, then, ignorance would be bliss? :shrug:

You're right - there's no reason to subject everyone else to personal fueds. Some people (not saying you) however see airing it in public as one more weapon - they hope to publicly humiliate their "enemy."

[sodascouts]

Whoooow... Where do I start?!?!?!

OK. I'll start at the top and go from there.

David. Thankyou for starting a thread in my honour.. :thumbsup: I'm surprised anybody really noticed me missing actually.. But anyway, the reason I'm replying to this is out of courtesy and respect for some of the Ledgie "old school" if you will. I had planned to slip away quietly, a dawn departure if you like but alas, with David's thread I feel a need to speak up and clarify my leaving.


Thanks for offering an explanation. There are a lot of people quietly leaving for the same reason but they never say, and no one ever realizes why - especially a lot of veteran Ledgies.

[SuzeQuze]

Thanks fellas. Who knows how life will pan out.. Wasn't it Lindsey that said say we'll meet again? :laugh:

Reading it in retrospect it might have appeared directly linked to that thread although it wasn't. Another Ledgie hinted it on the very same thread. I would have posted a proper farewell but didn't want to go out dramatically although it's turning that way now. :shrug:

Ahh yes. Brian and ChiliD are married. Seteca rarely posts now and I'm off to pastures new.. Sorry Ladies, and there are some very nice ladies here too.. :xoxo: I'm leaving you all in the capable hands of good ol' Gerald... I know he's not wrong ( :D ) when it comes to giving advice to the ladies so listen to his words of advice.. :lol: I can handle squabbles. I just don't want to come home from work and relax by watching unnecessary personal stuff on my screen. It's a choice I've taken.

Honey, you many have checked out, but you can never leave. :sorry: :) I think The Ledge is sort of a microcosm of life and there will always be conflict due to our lower nature has imperfect human beings. We can rise above that but unfortunately not everyone is motivated to do that. Also, anyone is capable of a personal attack if they don't think before they post. We have all done it I think, some more than others. None of us should post in anger at someone! That always turns out badly.

Ah yes, now we have even fewer straight guys. :rolleyes: You will be missed. :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Thanks for offering an explanation. There are a lot of people quietly leaving for the same reason but they never say, and no one ever realizes why - especially a lot of veteran Ledgies.Yes, I know about some of them, though I don't think I know about any of the veteran Ledgies who are leaving or have already left, though I'm sure there are many. It saddens me, but I also understand.

[wondergirl9847]

Thanks for posting and clarifying for everyone. You KNOW you will be missed, just like any "old school" Ledgie would be. ;) It's kind of like working at a job for 20 years or something, and then people you like start quitting for whatever reason, and then, they hire, like 16 year olds. Yeah, like that. LOL