Is Bono a fraud?

[SteveMacD]

I commented a few months back that I had seen this show about Bono and about him being a fraud. The show got such a great response, that they've put a lot of their information on their site. It's pretty convincing, and well cited.

Part One (http://www.edthesock.com/News/article/sid=87.html)

Part Two (http://www.edthesock.com/News/article/sid=88.html)

Timeline (http://www.edthesock.com/News/article/sid=89.html)

[amber]

yes? probably? somewhat?

[Serrart]

I find it pretty depressing, this guy (not Bono, the reporter) has obviously a lot of time to waste. I don't care if his albums sold more thanks to the free publicity from his involvement in all the charities. He helped to focus the attention of the public on a global problem, and a lot of people donate money, wrote their government to do more also for his speaking about the debt, the aids problem in South Africa, etc. That's what is important for me. And I'm not even such a big U2 fan.

Romy

[SteveMacD]

I find it pretty depressing, this guy (not Bono, the reporter) has obviously a lot of time to waste.
He probably had a lot of staff helping him out. He works for one of the biggest media companies in Canada.
I don't care if his albums sold more thanks to the free publicity from his involvement in all the charities. He helped to focus the attention of the public on a global problem, and a lot of people donate money, wrote their government to do more also for his speaking about the debt, the aids problem in South Africa, etc. That's what is important for me. And I'm not even such a big U2 fan.
But, to me, it looks like it was a lot of talk and photo ops. He certainly wasn't the first voice, or even the loudest. To use the life and death suffering of others for personal gain (in terms of reputation or finances) is totally tasteless, IMO.

[Serrart]

He probably had a lot of staff helping him out. He works for one of the biggest media companies in Canada.

But, to me, it looks like it was a lot of talk and photo ops. He certainly wasn't the first voice, or even the loudest. To use the life and death suffering of others for personal gain (in terms of reputation or finances) is totally tasteless, IMO.

What else should he do apart from talking and doing photo ops? That's what public figures are useful for. The images of Audrey Hepburn crying for an African boy dying boosted up the donations to Unicef. A lot of young people who don't read a newspaper and don't really pay attention to Africa's problems became aware of them and did something (whatever, from donate to sign a petition) because of Bono's talking. He definitely spent a lot of time talking, acting, getting involved in these charities. I can't say I have done the same thing so I don't feel entitled to judge his morality on this.

Romy

[SteveMacD]

What else should he do apart from talking and doing photo ops?
He could take off his sun glasses and get his finger nails dirty by actually WORKING, without any talking, photo ops, or other general media whoring. Why not? Jimmy Carter does it. His name gets the attention of media, but the man actually DOES something. He actually takes part in building homes for poor people. It's more than a photo op, it's actually making a difference.

I'm not going to debate as to whether or not he actually cares about these people, but basically he's a rock star who thinks he knows how to play the political game, and it appears that he's getting his ass handed to him, which is actually hurting the cause.

Meet Jesse Helms, until recently one of America’s longest serving senators and at the time the chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee. Bono met with him to lobby for greater support in the fight against AIDS in Africa.

After their meeting, and the requisite photo-op carried by all major American news services, Bono said the North Carolina senator was a "brave and bold man" who "cares deeply about what is happening in Africa right now."

Which is very strange, because for his entire career Helms was known for kicking the crap out of foreign aid and the United Nations.

And was it “brave and bold” when this man who Bono claims cares so much for Africans said that: "The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights."

Or “"The only way to stop AIDS is to stop the disgusting and immoral activities that continue to spread the disease."

Excuse me a moment…sniff sniff...his compassion is overwhelming.

And what did this ass-kissing get Bono? Helms did put forward a bill for an extra 500 million dollars for the global AIDS fund…a figure which he then reduced to 200 million to get the bill passed. The only problem? Helms pushed his bill through, in the process defeating a competing bill that would have given the fund 700 million dollars.

[dudden22]

He could take off his sun glasses and get his finger nails dirty by actually WORKING, without any talking, photo ops, or other general media whoring.

I would much rather have him focus the media and public's attention to the problem rather than have him get his hands dirty. The media attention is priceless to the cause and can accomplish a lot more than just one man volunteering some time.

[Serrart]

The fact is that the media don't like to put a 2 months old starving black child on the first page of a newspaper or in the evening news because it's depressing and people at home switch channel and look for their favourite sitcom. Put the same baby between Angelina Jolie's arms and there would be minutes in the news and articles in the newspapers. Jimmy Carter is a politician and does his job (he already deserved the Nobel Award for me), Bono is a rockstar and helps a lot dragging some of the media and the public attention to these causes. JMO.

Romy

[gldstwmn]

I've only read the first one and he certainly makes a compelling case. This part blew my mind:

Yes, you heard right. No medicine, no volunteers, no money for Africa. They say their purpose is to lobby Washington, but that’s the same purpose as the other 36,959 registered US lobby groups.
snip

Yes, Bono is all about telling countries to increase their foreign aid. And you know where countries get their funding for foreign aid? Tax dollars. Tax dollars, of course, come from taxpayers.

Know who isn’t a taxpayer? Bono. At least not on his earnings from U2. In his home country of Ireland, where thanks to pro-entertainer tax laws, the members of U2 pay no tax on their earnings from the band.

:shocked:

[SteveMacD]

Should he relocate out of his homeland to a location with differing taxation laws?
He should just shut-up altogether, IMO. He's asking nations to increase their foreign aid, which comes from taxes, which he does not pay. If he feels that strongly about this issue, then yeah, I say put your money where your mouth is, and stop condemning politicians who don't do exactly what HE wants. If HE wants Canada to contribute x amount of dollars to Africa, then he should move to Canada and become a Canadian taxpayer.
To begin with he's under no obligation to do anything (no more so than as a human being like the rest of us) so unless it detracts from a cause I think to criticise is far more reflective of the critic.
On the other hand, if he's under no obligation, then why the hell is he so insistant on telling leaders of other nations that they're not doing enough for Africa? The last time I checked, other nations aren't under any obligation to help that continent out.
Gone are the days of just crying out lyrics in protest and now he realises that if anyone is to make any impact on the system they must be a part of it.
But his website that he has to raise issues is not intended to raise medicine, volunteers, or money for Africa. So, it's exactly the same thing. The whole point is that he's NOT actually a part of anything. He's all talk, all photo op, but no action. And, the timing of his actions is suspicious.

[tommer]

i'm not a big fan, but i do appreciate Bono's role in bringing the 3rd world's cry to the mass western media.
yet on the other hand, i keep waiting for the day in which both him and Sting/x decide to keep their mouth shut for a minute, and instead, maybe donate... let's say... a hundred million $ each for the cause.
bono is the finest example of the 21 century's global economic order; his music's copyrights are vigorously protected by a huge conglomerate which practically operates america's forign economic policy, and under this ever-sheltering umbrella, the guy became rich to the point in which he's now worth probably more than a medium african nation. a thousand coffee plantations in Ethiopia can't make half the earnings that a band like U2 generates today.
considering that it's all about the int'l trade regulations, mr. bono should take notice that african poverty is just another mean to keep us westerners safe and rich. personally, i can't even afford bon's ugly glasses, so although i do see the point he's trying to make, i still consider him to be a lousy, boring hypocrite.

[Mari]

On the other hand, if he's under no obligation, then why the hell is he so insistant on telling leaders of other nations that they're not doing enough for Africa? The last time I checked, other nations aren't under any obligation to help that continent out.


This last sentence bothers me. I get the feeling that that's what this is really about; not wanting to help Africa. And if anyone campaigns for helping out Africa, to malign them. (don't know if that's the right word, got it from the dutch/english dict.)
Now that's a political strategy I've seen too often.

I did actually get fed up with Bono and his holiness at some point and lost interest in U2 because the music sounds to me like more of the same. But I can't deny that Bono's done a lot to attract attention to these causes, playing the same games as all politicians maybe, but reaching his goal anyway.

[SteveMacD]

This last sentence bothers me. I get the feeling that that's what this is really about; not wanting to help Africa. And if anyone campaigns for helping out Africa, to malign them.
My problem isn't helping Africa. I think that's nobel. But I think many of the demands of Bono, Geldof, and the likes have been obnoxious. MY issue isn't with the cause, it's with loud-mouthed rockers who seem to use the suffering of Africans to further enhance their careers. How hypocritical is it of a super rich Bono to basically demand that the not-so super rich people of other nations pay more in taxes when he himself pays NO tax? Here's a prime example of why this crowd is really starting to irritate me.

Prime Minister Paul Martin responded cautiously Tuesday to a plea for more foreign aid from Live 8 organizer Bob Geldof.

Earlier in the day, Geldof made the plea in a videotaped message played at the official announcement for the Canadian edition of Live 8.

Geldof urged Martin to live up to the policy proposed by former prime minister Lester B. Pearson, who said 0.7 per cent of Canada's gross national income should be devoted to aid by 1975.

"There's no use your prime minister coming to Scotland unless he's prepared to do this deal," Geldof said from Rome in the message. "If he's not prepared, stay at home, just stay at home, don't come."

The leaders of the G-8 nations, including Martin, are meeting in Gleneagles, Scotland, from July 6 to 8. Live 8, a series of concerts around the world, is being staged July 2 to put pressure on them to increase the funds they send to Africa.

Speaking on the phone to the Canadian Press after his message was played, Geldof said the time was right to lobby Martin because "we're coming to the wire now."

The world is broken, the former Boomtown Rats leader said. "Live 8 will be the splint, hopefully, that joins it. In order to make that work, the Canadian prime minister must come to this with a completely open mind," he added.

There is no time to be polite, he went on: "What is the point of coming to a G-8 if you're not prepared to go along with the agenda?"

Martin responded in the House of Commons Tuesday by saying he is not prepared to make promises that the federal government can't keep.

"The problem with international public policy is that, too often, commitments are made on the grounds of photo ops and I will not do that," Martin said.

Later in the day, outside the Commons, Finance Minister Ralph Goodale said British Prime Minister Tony Blair, not Geldof, had invited Martin to the summit.

"Mr. Geldof is a very passionate advocate for the poor of the world and everyone admires his commitment, his sincerity, his panache, his ability to get global attention on issues of this nature. And more power to him," Goodale said.

"But we also don't think it's quite fair to demean or diminish what we have already done and what we are in fact doing."

Telling the leader of a nation of which he is not a citizen how to conduct his business is crap. Especially when it was a reporter from said nation that brought the initial attention to Africa back in the '80s (Brian Stewart of the CBC). Sorry, but I think Geldof, Bono, et. al. need to evaluate their ACTUAL role in society.

[Serrart]

Telling the leader of a nation of which he is not a citizen how to conduct his business is crap. Especially when it was a reporter from said nation that brought the initial attention to Africa back in the '80s (Brian Stewart of the CBC). Sorry, but I think Geldof, Bono, et. al. need to evaluate their ACTUAL role in society.

That would make sense if there weren't multinationals running the business in the whole world. It seems our Countries didn't have a problem, enriching their balances selling weapons, medicines, powdered milk without rules and at outrageous prices in Africa, but suddenly remember their individual financial issues when the problem is to avoid to see a child die after another after another. We can't be a united world only under Coca Cola or McDonald's labels, IMO.

Romy

[Mari]

Look, reality is that if someone like you or I would try to ask such attention for such a cause, we wouldn't get anywhere NEAR the results that Bono &co are getting. Can you see yourself even getting close to Bush &co, let alone be listened to?
Yes, Bongo's rich and famous! (and obnoxious :laugh: ) But at least he's putting that fame to good use. That's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not that interested in whether he pays taxes or not, really. If a leader of some other nation would try to persuade the leader of your nation in some issue.. you could use that same argument and it would sound ridiculous. Bono's into politics, same thing.

[strandinthewind]

So we each mind our own business? I cannot express my discontent with American (or any) foreign policy because I am not a citizen? That puts us all in an awkward situation where each nation is entitled to behave according to principles set out by its own citizens (leaders) and are entitled to disregard standards reached by other bodies based on the fact that they are not citizens. So why did anyone care about the communists, they were not citizens. I find your sentence so absurd. Welcome to the world of politics, apathy and passivity have never been great methods of progression. In the case of millions dying, to care to halt any relief or attention to the matter, great or small, because of problem with the messenger, would indicate a severe need to reorganise one's proriorities.

Once again, I agree with you - this may be a trend - should I seek medical attention or will you?

[SteveMacD]

So we each mind our own business? I cannot express my discontent with American (or any) foreign policy because I am not a citizen?
There's a big difference. While I don't doubt that you'd have any problems expressing your opinions to political leaders, you would not be so insistent as to suggest that they check themselves out of a summit (to which an invitation was extended by the leader of another nation, not a rock star who thinks he's a politician) if that leader couldn't make a guarantee. Sorry, but I happen to think that it's TOTALLY responsible for a leader to not write a check his country isn't willing to cash. How often have people complained that politicians never keep their promises when going through an election cycle? Now, these guys are complaining when a leader isn't making a promise because he's not sure that his nation has the political will to keep that promise. I'm sure if given a personal choice, Paul Martin would most certainly agree to 0.7 percent. However, there are other considerations, and honestly, there isn't the money to go around. Hell, Canada couldn't protect itself if attacked, and now they're expected to protect another nation?
That puts us all in an awkward situation where each nation is entitled to behave according to principles set out by its own citizens (leaders) and are entitled to disregard standards reached by other bodies based on the fact that they are not citizens.
If that's how you want to twist what I said, then okay. You honestly don't find it crass that a non-tax paying multi-millionaire is telling political leaders of other nations how to spend tax money? He's asking people in G8 nations to make a contribution that he himself does not make. I'm not saying that Bono doesn't have the right to do what he's doing, just that he needs to put things into perspective. He's not a political leader. He's a rock star. He has no political legitimacy, as he was not voted into office by any electorate. If he feels strongly enough that G8 nations need to send their tax money to Africa, then he should voluteer his money to one G8 nation's tax system. At least his words would carry SOME legitimacy.
So why did anyone care about the communists, they were not citizens.
Because there was a possibility that the communist governments were going to blow the world up? :shrug: :wavey:
I find your sentence so absurd.
As absurd as telling a leader of a country how to spend that nation's tax money, when the multi-millionaire himself pays no taxes? THAT'S absurd.
Welcome to the world of politics, apathy and passivity have never been great methods of progression. In the case of millions dying, to care to halt any relief or attention to the matter, great or small, because of problem with the messenger, would indicate a severe need to reorganise one's proriorities.
No, it just means that there are better messengers out there. People who aren't getting an ego boost out of it, who ARE raising money, ARE getting their fingers dirty, ARE taking off their sunglasses. People who ARE really doing more than getting a photo op a few months before an album is released. How brave is it really of Bono to say "let's help starving Africans." The fact that he thinks he has authority to tell leaders how to spend tax money is absurd. Remember, taxes are mandatory for citizens, they're a legal requirement. People can be jailed for not paying taxes. I think it's refreshing to see a leader actually say he's not sure his nation is ready to commit tax money to a charity. So, if it is something that is deemed important to the people of a nation, then it should be done through a charity, not a government. Bono would much better serve Africans by setting up an international charity and appeal to the hearts of citizens, not politicians.

Incidentally, the fact that the debate is over aid and debt relief really ignores the REAL problem, which is yet another reason I'm having issues with these rockers. Starvation and debt aren't the problems, rather they are the result of corrupt governments. Look at all the ethnic cleansing that's occurred in Africa in the last ten to fifteen years. So long as tyrants have control over the economies (and food) in African nations, there will always be this suffering. It's far too easy for the West to ignore what's going on there, since these people aren't white and have no oil. And thus the West has basically let genocides go unchallenged and millions are dying. So what's Bono's big solution? Let's give aid and debt relief to Africa. Will any of that really help? Probably not.

[Serrart]

Incidentally, the fact that the debate is over aid and debt relief really ignores the REAL problem, which is yet another reason I'm having issues with these rockers. Starvation and debt aren't the problems, rather they are the result of corrupt governments. Look at all the ethnic cleansing that's occurred in Africa in the last ten to fifteen years. So long as tyrants have control over the economies (and food) in African nations, there will always be this suffering. It's far too easy for the West to ignore what's going on there, since these people aren't white and have no oil. And thus the West has basically let genocides go unchallenged and millions are dying. So what's Bono's big solution? Let's give aid and debt relief to Africa. Will any of that really help? Probably not.

Excuse me but who did help most of those corrupt governments to go to the power, signing with them economic pacts? Who did finance the civil wars to sell more weapons and avoid nationalizations of industries? Who did steal to Africa for centuries their natural resources? Who's letting their pharmaceutical industries to make huge profits from Aids epidemy there? Western world had and keeps having a huge part in causing the problems that Africa has today and I think at least our governments should take responsibility of that and start giving back what we've stolen them.

Romy

[SteveMacD]

Excuse me but who did help most of those corrupt governments to go to the power, signing with them economic pacts? Who did finance the civil wars to sell more weapons and avoid nationalizations of industries? Who did steal to Africa for centuries their natural resources? Who's letting their pharmaceutical industries to make huge profits from Aids epidemy there? Western world had and keeps having a huge part in causing the problems that Africa has today and I think at least our governments should take responsibility of that and start giving back what we've stolen them.
All of that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that aid and debt relief aren't the overall solution to Africa's problems.

BTW, the main example I've been using is Canada. I don't believe (Canadian Ledgies, correct me if I'm wrong) Canada was a part of what you're talking about. Which really makes it all the more weird as to the beating Paul Martin received.

[Serrart]

All of that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that aid and debt relief aren't the overall solution to Africa's problems.

BTW, the main example I've been using is Canada. I don't believe (Canadian Ledgies, correct me if I'm wrong) Canada was a part of what you're talking about. Which really makes it all the more weird as to the beating Paul Martin received.

Every Western Country that has economic exchanges with US and Europe, use fuel for their cars and planes, is responsible, IMO. I've read about the criticism to Paul Martin (especially from some political commentators and opponents like Jack Layton) but I'm in a Country that has a clown as Prime Minister so I can't really express an opinion on Martin's beating.

Romy