Peter Jennings Reportedly Near Death

[gldstwmn]

http://www.nationalledger.com/scribe/article_2726142.shtml

[Red]

Yikes, I had no idea how grave his condition was. Does anyone know how old he is?

[GateandGarden]

Yikes, I had no idea how grave his condition was. Does anyone know how old he is?He's 67....

[GODDESS6]

awww this is sad, my mother-in-law used to have the major hots for ole peter, she used to say that he could eat crackers in her bed aytime :lol: ~

[markolas]

Michelle Malkin? I don't know that I'd trust a word out of that bitch's mouth. She'd like to see him dead, I'm sure. :distress:

[GateandGarden]

Michelle Malkin? I don't know that I'd trust a word out of that bitch's mouth. She'd like to see him dead, I'm sure. :distress:Oh yeah! I totally forgot who she is until you said that. She is a bee-yotch and you're probably right.

[Red]

This might be a dumb question but who's Michelle Malkin?

[gldstwmn]

Michelle Malkin? I don't know that I'd trust a word out of that bitch's mouth. She'd like to see him dead, I'm sure. :distress:

I know. I can't stand her. There are other sources as well.

[gldstwmn]

This might be a dumb question but who's Michelle Malkin?

She's sort of like Ann Coulter only Asian.

[GateandGarden]

She's sort of like Ann Coulter only Asian.I think that about sums it up.

If not, there's always this--http://www.michellemalkin.com/

I just had loads of fun ( :rolleyes: ) looking at shirts like these

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1670/3560741793320vb.gifhttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3489/3560741945552zw.gif
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3526/3560742164307ao.gifhttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8243/3560742609538xs.gif

[GypsySorcerer]

I think that about sums it up.

If not, there's always this--http://www.michellemalkin.com/

I just had loads of fun ( :rolleyes: ) looking at shirts like these

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1670/3560741793320vb.gifhttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3489/3560741945552zw.gif
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3526/3560742164307ao.gifhttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8243/3560742609538xs.gif

Egad. :rolleyes: :eek:

[GateandGarden]

Egad. :rolleyes: :eek:Yeah, I'm trying really hard not to be angry at some stupid shirts. Sad how some stupid shirts can anger me.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4270/modeldiversity3vd.jpghttp://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3893/modeldiversitybkl1hx.jpg

[SteveMacD]

Man, if her head was any further up her ass, her body would be a hat!

[DeeGeMe]

www.tvnewser.com is a good source. basically a website (subscription only)--News Blues reported last night/this morning that the ABC affiliates had been told to stand by. Then they retracted this story but said that they had confirmed that several of the larger affiliates had been told that his death would be very soon.

[BTFLCHLD]

yikes he is one of my favorite newscasters
i wish him well

[LuckyCharms]

Dang, I had no idea he was that bad off. I've known that face my whole life. :(

[heyjupiter678]

ABC is reporting that he has died. :distress:

[LuckyCharms]

They're doing a special report right now. R.I.P. Peter

[wondergirl9847]

Yep, it's on ABC now. Wow, he went downhill very quickly, didn't he? Seems like he just left ABC not that long ago and now he's gone. :(

[DeeGeMe]

Both CNN and MSNBC are doing in-depth pieces right now as well. CNN had an emotional interview with Aaron Brown who had worked with Peter for years at ABC. Such sad news.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Damn -- :distress: May he rest in peace.

[dissention]

She's sort of like Ann Coulter only Asian.

Tweety bitch slapped her last year before the election on his program. It was a ****ing riot.

[dissention]

ABC is reporting that he has died. :distress:

:distress:

He was so young. I'm truly shocked that he's passed. Thankfully, he won't have to suffer any longer.

[estranged4life]

you'll be missed.

[CelticGypsy]

I am so sad he has passed away. May God bless his family and friends during this hard and difficult time.

[wondergirl9847]

Peter Jennings (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050808/ap_on_en_tv/obit_jennings)

[GypsySorcerer]

RIP Peter. He'll be missed.

[gldstwmn]

Tweety bitch slapped her last year before the election on his program. It was a ****ing riot.

I know. I remember. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

My condolences to Mr. Jennings family. May he rest in peace.

[LuckyCharms]

Yep, it's on ABC now. Wow, he went downhill very quickly, didn't he? Seems like he just left ABC not that long ago and now he's gone. :(

Yeah, I thought he was just taking an absense until he got better. I really had no idea he was so ill. :distress:

[desertangel]

Peter Jennings was my favorite news anchor and that is saying a lot because I don't think much of media-types. He was a very compassionate person. (and handsome too.) RIP Mr. Jennings. :(


Laura

[GODDESS6]

:angel: R.I.P. peter :angel: ~

[ontheEdgeof17]

:distress: How upsetting. Rest in Peace.

[GateandGarden]

Oh no. I really didn't think he was doing so poorly. I'm sorry for his family. RIP

[bikerchic]

God damn that smoking!!! :mad: :distress: Rest in peace Peter.

[DrummerDeanna]

Wow - I really had no clue he was so bad off. May he rest in peace. :distress:

[gldstwmn]

Yep, it's on ABC now. Wow, he went downhill very quickly, didn't he? Seems like he just left ABC not that long ago and now he's gone. :(

Inoperable lung cancer. :distress:

[SuzeQuze]

I also really liked and respected Mr Jennings and am shocked and saddened by this. I never watch the news and had forgotten he left. He was such a comfort during the Sept. 11 coverage, a truly compassionate man and a class act. He will be sorely missed.

[The Tower]

Inoperable lung cancer. :distress:
And completely preventable.

He was a three/four pack a day smoker for years and years and years. Hello smokers??? {knock-knock} Anybody home?? Smoking kills. The sooner you stop the better off you'll be in the long run.

[GateandGarden]

And completely preventable.

He was a three/four pack a day smoker for years and years and years. Hello smokers??? {knock-knock} Anybody home?? Smoking kills. The sooner you stop the better off you'll be in the long run.Right. I gave up on trying to convince people I love of those facts. They get pissed off and don't want to speak to me.

[HomerMcvie]

And completely preventable.

He was a three/four pack a day smoker for years and years and years. Hello smokers??? {knock-knock} Anybody home?? Smoking kills. The sooner you stop the better off you'll be in the long run.
I know. It's SOOO stupid to smoke. I honestly can't understand how any semi-intelligent person would smoke.
Here come the smokers now, "blah, blah, blah"......
It's an automatic 3 point deduction on my rating scale! If you smoke, you'd better be SMOKIN' hot! :lol:

[bikerchic]

I have three words for smoking...........dirty, dirty, dirty. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

I do not think it is about smoking and it being bad for you. Everyone knows that. It is about people telling you what to do in an bossy way - who needs that :shrug:

I mean if your going to get right down to it - we should all be smoke free, alcohol free, macrobiotic vegans - yet, I do not hear anyone advocating that - and thank GAWD :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Right. I gave up on trying to convince people I love of those facts. They get pissed off and don't want to speak to me.
For the most part, nearly all my extended family has quit, save for one aunt, and her daughter. And I frequently point out to them, that they're the only two left. "Hellooooo!"
Am I the only one who thinks it's really trashy to smoke(don't jump me smokers, I'm asking the nons)?

[strandinthewind]

For the most part, nearly all my extended family has quit, save for one aunt, and her daughter. And I frequently point out to them, that they're the only two left. "Hellooooo!"
Am I the only one who thinks it's really trashy to smoke(don't jump me smokers, I'm asking the nons)?

Well, I think it is trashy to wear clothing I think is inappropriate - should the whole world obey me? Actually - that is not a bad idea :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Right. I gave up on trying to convince people I love of those facts. They get pissed off and don't want to speak to me.


Perhaps it is because you are telling someone how to live their life. I do not think you would react kindly to someone telling you they thought you should live in a certain way no matter how true their intent were.

[bikerchic]

Am I the only one who thinks it's really trashy to smoke(don't jump me smokers, I'm asking the nons)?
:thumbsup: :nod:

[bikerchic]

Perhaps it is because you are telling someone how to live their life. I do not think you would react kindly to someone telling you they thought you should live in a certain way no matter how true their intent were.
Yah, but when they're smoking around us, we're living their filthy (life) habit with them.

[HomerMcvie]

Well, I think it is trashy to wear clothing I think is inappropriate - should the whole world obey me? Actually - that is not a bad idea :laugh:
But you're killing yourself, and me. And I don't want to see either one of us to die! :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

Yah, but when they're smoking around us, we're living their filthy (life) habit with them.

True - but you pretty much have the option of not going where you know people are going to smoke. I mean no one is forcing you to go to a bar, etc.

Note - I do think there should be smoking sections, etc. so that people who do not want to be around it do not have to be.

As for second hand smoke - do you know that if the tire makers of the world would make tires 20 or so percent more durable, the rate of lung cancer would decline sharply - same thing applies if people drove 20 percent less - only more so then because it is fumes and tires. So, living in a metropolitan area where there are more cars, I stand a better chance of getting lung cancer because soccer mom cannot carpool or the Harley people want to drive here to have their convention. Applying it to me, people have a better chance of getting lung cancer because I drive solo to work instead of taking the train.

Food for thought before we all point that judgemental finger :shrug:

[skcin]

Hubby's grandmother (smoked about 50 years) just found out she has lung cancer & it has spread to the liver. My grandfather died of lung cancer. My dad recently had 2 close friends die in their 60's from esophogeal cancer, most likely due to heavy smoking & drinking.

I smoked for 11 years, continuing through nursing school. I developed asthma & continued to smoke lightly for about 2 years. I finally totally quit about 5 years ago (although I have been known to drunkenly light up once or twice a year liks a fool.)

I knew it was bad for me, I knew it was expensive, I knew my clothes smelled like smoke. Doesn't matter. Nobody will quit successfully until they make the decision that that's what they want to do. You can lecture, beg, scream, whatever. Won't work.

[The Tower]

I do not think it is about smoking and it being bad for you. Everyone knows that. It is about people telling you what to do in an bossy way - who needs that :shrug:

I mean if your going to get right down to it - we should all be smoke free, alcohol free, macrobiotic vegans - yet, I do not hear anyone advocating that - and thank GAWD :laugh:
If people want to smoke- smoke. My mother smoked for 33 years and I never said anything one way or another about it. Then she had a heart attack. At that point, she said "I'm not going to smoke anymore". Fine- but, remember, you could have prevented this.

As for second hand smoke - do you know that if the tire makers of the world would make tires 20 or so percent more durable, the rate of lung cancer would decline sharply - same thing applies if people drove 20 percent less - only more so then because it is fumes and tires. So, living in a metropolitan area where there are more cars, I stand a better chance of getting lung cancer because soccer mom cannot carpool or the Harley people want to drive here to have their convention. Applying it to me, people have a better chance of getting lung cancer because I drive solo to work instead of taking the train.
There you go deflecting again. "It's okay for me to smoke because tire makers are polluters" If you choose to smoke (or if you're addicted and you choose to not seek help with your addiction) you are increasing your chances of getting lung cancer, etc., etc. That's all there is to it.

Food for thought before we all point that judgemental finger :shrug:
I'm not judging you, Mr. Guilty. Peter Jennings died because of the choices he made in life. No biggie.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Nobody will quit successfully until they make the decision that that's what they want to do. You can lecture, beg, scream, whatever. Won't work.

and then there are people who have no desire to quit. One on good friends os one of them. He made his decision and is in his late 50's and in good health. Will he live to 70 - who knows? All I know is he knows smoking is bad for him, but in the end, it is his decision if he wants to live like that and I respect that because I do not like it when people lecture me about how they think I should live my life.

I mean all of us do things that are detrmimental to us and others. I mean driving over the speed limit, which I submit we all do or at least have done, pollutes the environment more, wastes gas, and puts us and others in jeapordy more so than driving the speed limit. Yet, how many of us have thought - I am soooo late or thought 70 in the 65 zone was cool :shrug:

Thus, I say maybe we should all concentrate on working out our own vices before getting preachy with others on a particular habit we do not like and remeber how me being this preachy feels the next time a smoker gets a little cranky when told how to live their life by someone who causes peril in other ways :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

If people want to smoke- smoke. My mother smoked for 33 years and I never said anything one way or another about it. Then she had a heart attack. At that point, she said "I'm not going to smoke anymore". Fine- but, remember, you could have prevented this.


There you go deflecting again. "It's okay for me to smoke because tire makers are polluters" If you choose to smoke (or if you're addicted and you choose to not seek help with your addiction) you are increasing your chances of getting lung cancer, etc., etc. That's all there is to it.


I'm not judging you, Mr. Guilty. Peter Jennings died because of the choices he made in life. No biggie.

:laugh:

The point of "defelecting" was to note that people in glass houses should not throw stones :wavey:

BTW - we all die mostly as a consequence of the choices we made. I mean people who drink alcohol pretty much die before non-drinkers. Yet, I know few drinkers who are willing to stop because of this?

[bikerchic]

True - but you pretty much have the option of not going where you know people are going to smoke. I mean no one is forcing you to go to a bar, etc.

Note - I do think there should be smoking sections, etc. so that people who do not want to be around it do not have to be.

As for second hand smoke - do you know that if the tire makers of the world would make tires 20 or so percent more durable, the rate of lung cancer would decline sharply - same thing applies if people drove 20 percent less - only more so then because it is fumes and tires. So, living in a metropolitan area where there are more cars, I stand a better chance of getting lung cancer because soccer mom cannot carpool or the Harley people want to drive here to have their convention. Applying it to me, people have a better chance of getting lung cancer because I drive solo to work instead of taking the train.

Food for thought before we all point that judgemental finger :shrug:
Your right, I do choose not to go to bars. But we do have a no smoking law here in the bars which still sucks. Some of my girlfriends begged me to go to a bar down in Toronto one night to have a long over due "girl's night out", so I decide to go but sat at the bar most of the night by myself because they're all outside in the shielded off with plastic patio with heaters (this was in the middle of January), smoking their brain's out, having a grand ol time. I was so pissed, that I left early :mad:

Do you smoke? Because who else would defend smoking :shrug:

[The Tower]

:laugh:

The point of "defelecting" was to note that people in glass houses should not throw stones :wavey:

BTW - we all die mostly as a consequence of the choices we made. I mean people who drink alcohol pretty much die before non-drinkers. Yet, I know few drinkers who are willing to stop because of this?
Perhaps, I didn't get my point across because I didn't want to seem like an asshole. Yes, people die all the time due to poor choices. I don't think it's particulary sad or upsetting when people die due to poor choices.

The people who died at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market because that idiot old man hit the gas instead of brake, wiping out a dozen people on the sidewalk- that's sad. Peter Jennings dying because of a specific choice that he knew would adversely affect him, if not kill him? Not so sad. In fact, not really sad at all. Just another death due to poor choices.

There are all kinds of things in this world that contribute to our death. Hell, once one is born you're time is gradually killing you anyway. However, there are specific things out there that we know will greatly contribute to or potentially cause one's death. If one is concerned about dying, don't smoke. If one is concerned about dying from cirrhosis, don't drink alcohol. Otherwise, live it up, baby.

[strandinthewind]

Your right, I do choose not to go to bars. But we do have a no smoking law here in the bars which still sucks. Some of my girlfriends begged me to go to a bar down in Toronto one night to have a long over due "girl's night out", so I decide to go but sat at the bar most of the night by myself because they're all outside in the shielded off with plastic patio with heaters (this was in the middle of January), smoking their brain's out, having a grand ol time. I was so pissed, that I left early :mad:

Do you smoke? Because who else would defend smoking :shrug:

Well, your friends were just rude - period. I would have left as well.

I am not defending smoking as it, like many things, is not defensible.

But, smoking is not my point. My point is the "someone is telling me how to live my life" is offensive. That is why I was pointing out that we all do other things that can harm themselves and others and if anyone bitched at them 1/10 as much as smokers get bitched at the person being bitched at would likely tell off the person bitching.

But, people have a hard time separating the two notions. Tower just did it. He ignored my point and went in for the smoking kills, which no one is arguing against :shrug:

Thus, I am not defending smoking.

[strandinthewind]

Perhaps, I didn't get my point across because I didn't want to seem like an asshole. Yes, people die all the time due to poor choices. I don't think it's particulary sad or upsetting when people die due to poor choices.

The people who died at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market because that idiot old man hit the gas instead of brake, wiping out a dozen people on the sidewalk- that's sad. Peter Jennings dying because of a specific choice that he knew would adversely affect him, if not kill him? Not so sad. In fact, not really sad at all. Just another death due to poor choices.

There are all kinds of things in this world that contribute to our death. Hell, once one is born you're time is gradually killing you anyway. However, there are specific things out there that we know will greatly contribute to or potentially cause one's death. If one is concerned about dying, don't smoke. If one is concerned about dying from cirrhosis, don't drink alcohol. Otherwise, live it up, baby.

I would never think you were an a$$hole. A butthead maybe - but never an a$$hole :wavey:

[bikerchic]

Well, your friends were just rude - period. I would have left as well.

I am not defending smoking as it, like many things, is not defensible.

But, smoking is not my point. My point is the "someone is telling me how to live my life" is offensive. That is why I was pointing out that we all do other things that can harm themselves and others and if anyone bitched at them 1/10 as much as smokers get bitched at the person being bitched at would likely tell off the person bitching.

But, people have a hard time separating the two notions. Tower just did it. He ignored my point and went in for the smoking kills, which no one is arguing against :shrug:

Thus, I am not defending smoking.
You still didn't answer my question, do you smoke?

[bikerchic]

I finally totally quit about 5 years ago

I knew you were a smart girl! :wavey:

[BTFLCHLD]

wow 20+ posts on the hazards of smoking

RIP PETER JENNINGS :angel:
<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/peterjennings.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[bikerchic]

wow 20+ posts on the hazards of smoking

RIP PETER JENNINGS :angel:
<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/peterjennings.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
I know, it's the age old smoking debate :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

You still didn't answer my question, do you smoke?


LOL - why would you ask such a question (bats eyes)

I smoke every now and then, but nowhere near as much as I used to. But, I lessened it because I wanted to, not because anyone preached to me, which again is my point, which I think is escaping you because all you seem to want to do is know if I smoke so you can then think "oh well he smokes therefore of course he is defending smoking," which, again, I am not defending. I defend only the choice.

Put it this way, one does not have to believe in abortion to believe in the choice to have one in an unfettered way. Of course smoking and abortions are mostly unrelated, but the choice to do either is not.

[strandinthewind]

I know, it's the age old smoking debate :laugh:

Well, it is really a debate about freedom to live the way you want to without constant bitching from people wanting to run your life :laugh:

[bikerchic]

LOL - why would you ask such as question (bats eyes)

I smoke every now and then, but nowhere near as much as I used to. But, I lessened it because I wanted to, not because anyone preached to me, which again is my point, which I think is escaping you because all you seem to want to do is know if I smoke so you can then think "oh well he smokes therefore of course he is defending smoking," which, again, I am not defending. I defend only the choice.

Put it this way, one does not have to believe in abortion to believe in the choice to have one in an unfettered way. Of course smoking and abortions are mostly unrelated, but the choice to do either is not.
Your missing my point, (second hand smoke) does effect my health, where as someone choosing to have an abortion is not going ruin my time out or kill me. Therefore the choice is not the same.

[strandinthewind]

Your missing my point, (second hand smoke) does effect my health, where as someone choosing to have an abortion is not going ruin my time out or kill me. Therefore the choice is not the same.

Well, it kills the fetus according to some :shrug:

But, in any event, it is all about the choice. To take you literally, then I (figuratively) could smoke all I want on my own any not around anyone and you would be okay with that and never preach to me to stop.

But, now that you raised it, please show me one scientific study that clearly demonstrates second hand smoke in a very limited capacity such as in a bar for two hours twice a month will lead to cancer. I know of no such study and suggest you will not find one.

[The Tower]

I am not defending smoking as it, like many things, is not defensible.

But, smoking is not my point. My point is the "someone is telling me how to live my life" is offensive. That is why I was pointing out that we all do other things that can harm themselves and others and if anyone bitched at them 1/10 as much as smokers get bitched at the person being bitched at would likely tell off the person bitching.

But, people have a hard time separating the two notions. Tower just did it. He ignored my point and went in for the smoking kills, which no one is arguing against :shrug:

Thus, I am not defending smoking.
Well, I started the whole smoking thing with this-
And completely preventable.

He was a three/four pack a day smoker for years and years and years. Hello smokers??? {knock-knock} Anybody home?? Smoking kills. The sooner you stop the better off you'll be in the long run.
And then I posted this:
If people want to smoke- smoke.
So, where was it where I ignored your point? I don't have any problems with people choosing to smoke. Just don't bitch about the consequences and don't be surprised if you die an early death.

I would never think you were an a$$hole. A butthead maybe - but never an a$$hole :wavey:
And don't jack up my insurance rates because you continue to poison yourself by choice.

See, I told you I was an asshole.

[bikerchic]

Well, it kills the fetus according to some :shrug:

But, in any event, it is all about the choice. To take you literally, then I (figuratively) could smoke all I want on my own any not around anyone and you would be okay with that and never preach to me to stop.

But, now that you raised it, please show me one scientific study that clearly demonstrates second hand smoke in a very limited capacity such as in a bar for two hours twice a month will lead to cancer. I know of no such study and suggest you will not find one.
I'll let you find it, since your the expert on finding and posting articles :laugh:

Your right, as long as I don't have to smell and breath in that filthy smoke, I couldn't care less if you smoked your self to the grave, your choice.

[strandinthewind]

. . . So, where was it where I ignored your point? I don't have any problems with people choosing to smoke. Just don't bitch about the consequences and don't be surprised if you die an early death.

First, where exacly was I bitching about the consquesnces of smoking :shrug: Mu point was it is my choice. If you read where I said differently, let's see it. Otherwise stick to the point :wavey:


And don't jack up my insurance rates because you continue to poison yourself by choice.

See, I told you I was an asshole.

Don't even start the insurance argument. If you do then, you will have to concede that anyone who travels for pleasure, etc., also raises ins. rates because fossil fuels and the air debris from tires causes cancer, death, etc. Yet, I am not bitching at you for going to Hawaii and contributing to that am I.

[strandinthewind]

I'll let you find it, since your the expert on finding and posting articles :laugh:

Your right, as long as I don't have to smell and breath in that filthy smoke, I couldn't care less if you smoked your self to the grave, your choice.

I hope you are willing to apply that same rationale to anyone who drives other than out of true need because cars and tires pollute the environment and directly impede your health far more than cig.s ever will.

[Serrart]

Well, it is really a debate about freedom to live the way you want to without constant bitching from people wanting to run your life :laugh:

In Italy it has just been approved a law that forbids to smoke in any office, bar, restaurant, etc outside the smoking areas and it also encourages the local owner to call the police to fine those who don't respect the rules; but local owners have decided not to denounce anyone saying that being sheriffs is not their job.

Romy

[strandinthewind]

In Italy it has just been approved a law that forbids to smoke in any office, bar, restaurant, etc outside the smoking areas and it also encourages the local owner to call the police to fine those who don't respect the rules; but local owners have decided not to denounce anyone saying that being sheriffs is not their job.

Romy

Most of Europe has anti-smoking laws or is moving toward that. I love it when in the airports, the employees are smoking under the No Smoking signs :eek:

[bikerchic]

I hope you are willing to apply that same rationale to anyone who drives other than out of true need because cars and tires pollute the environment and directly impede your health far more than cig.s ever will.
I know, I can hear Peter Jennings right now, saying on the evening news, "Yes folk's, I have lung cancer. I have been a heavy driver all my life". :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

I do not think it is about smoking and it being bad for you. Everyone knows that. It is about people telling you what to do in an bossy way - who needs that :shrug:Yes, I know. I've tried to approach it as respectfully as possible with people. In one instance, I went looking for books about it to read and spent months preparing to tell a friend that I really would like for her to try to stop smoking. I wasn't pushy about it at all, but she was so mean to me about it. She couldn't believe I would have the nerve to bring it up at all. And so I have decided to keep my mouth shut. Now I get to watch people die sooner than their time.

[strandinthewind]

I know, I can hear Peter Jennings right now, saying on the evening news, "Yes folk's, I have lung cancer. I have been a heavy driver all my life". :laugh:

Yep!!!!!

Seriously though, fossil fuels contribute more to lung and other cancers far more than tobacco products. Yet, people care only about tobacco to the point of screaming at people to stop. I mean could imagine walking up to some person getting on the plane to go on vacation and saying "I cannot believe you are supporting me getting cancer just so you can go on vacation - I want you to stop this behavior NOW" :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

Perhaps it is because you are telling someone how to live their life. I do not think you would react kindly to someone telling you they thought you should live in a certain way no matter how true their intent were.Refer to previous post that was a response to your other post.

[The Tower]

Don't even start the insurance argument. If you do then, you will have to concede that anyone who travels for pleasure, etc., also raises ins. rates because fossil fuels and the air debris from tires causes cancer, death, etc. Yet, I am not bitching at you for going to Hawaii and contributing to that am I.
Well, I told you I was an asshole... ;) :xoxo:

Meh. You'll never win the "smoking is just as awful as burning fossil fuels needlessly" argument with me. Sorry, won't happen- apples and oranges. It's a dirty and dangerous habit (I oughta know, I used to smoke) that has no benefits whatsoever. It's just the way it is, my dear.

[GateandGarden]

BTW - we all die mostly as a consequence of the choices we made. I mean people who drink alcohol pretty much die before non-drinkers. Yet, I know few drinkers who are willing to stop because of this?These comparisons aren't fair. Light drinking is not detrimental, last time I checked. Casual smoking is managable as well but most of the people I know who smoke do it because they are addicted.

[GateandGarden]

Well, it is really a debate about freedom to live the way you want to without constant bitching from people wanting to run your life :laugh:What about family members who care about you? I don't see any sense in telling someone "No, you cannot eat that candy bar," but if someone who is very close to me happens to weight 300 pounds (or 90, on the other hand) I think I would try to help that person make healthier choices. I expect that family members would do that for me. These are extreme cases, not just saying, "Maybe you don't need dessert on this particular day." I think that would be running someone's life. Someone smoking three packs of cigarettes a day for thirty or so years is certainly worse.

[The Tower]

Yes, I know. I've tried to approach it as respectfully as possible with people.
That's not possible.

In one instance, I went looking for books about it to read and spent months preparing to tell a friend that I really would like for her to try to stop smoking. I wasn't pushy about it at all, but she was so mean to me about it.
Replace "stop smoking" in that sentence with "stop being a homosexual" and you'll probably feel what she was feeling.

And so I have decided to keep my mouth shut.
Smart girl. :nod:

Now I get to watch people die sooner than their time.
Eh- we all gotta go sometime.

[strandinthewind]

What about family members who care about you? I don't see any sense in telling someone "No, you cannot eat that candy bar," but if someone who is very close to me happens to weight 300 pounds (or 90, on the other hand) I think I would try to help that person make healthier choices. I expect that family members would do that for me. These are extreme cases, not just saying, "Maybe you don't need dessert on this particular day." I think that would be running someone's life. Someone smoking three packs of cigarettes a day for thirty or so years is certainly worse.

True - but if they told you they did not care what you thought and you persisted, then you would deserve any wrath given after that.

[Serrart]

Most of Europe has anti-smoking laws or is moving toward that. I love it when in the airports, the employees are smoking under the No Smoking signs :eek:

Yes, that's a classic. :nod:

Romy

[GateandGarden]

That's not possible.


Replace "stop smoking" in that sentence with "stop being a homosexual" and you'll probably feel what she was feeling.


Smart girl. :nod: This is the thing--I'm sure we both believe we are born gay. People choose to smoke. That's a big difference.


Eh- we all gotta go sometime.It's ridiculous of you to say that and surely you know it. That's the most assholeish (word I made up just now) statement I've seen you make. Do you know what my family has been through recently? If you did, you might think twice before making such a casual remark on this subject.

[GateandGarden]

True - but if they told you they did not care what you thought and you persisted, then you would deserve any wrath given after that.I didn't. When she said that my opinion didn't matter I just got tears in my eyes and dropped it. Besides, I was a kid at the time.

[strandinthewind]

. . . It's ridiculous of you to say that and surely you know it. That's the most assholeish (word I made up just now) statement I've seen you make. Do you know what my family has been through recently? If you did, you might think twice before making such a casual remark on this subject.

Well, I do not think so - your family aside and I am sorry for any bad thing that has happened to them.

But, I think when someone chooses to smoke or really do anything that will shorten their life, then when they go is their time. There is no other time for them in a coulda shoulda woulda mindset. Again, unless you are a non-smoking, non-meat eating, marcrobiotic vegan who works daily to be perfectly physcially fit - you are lessening your time on this planet. Yet, how many actually do that from birth to death? So, I say I will live my life like I want to and when it is my time it is my time.

[strandinthewind]

I didn't. When she said that my opinion didn't matter I just got tears in my eyes and dropped it. Besides, I was a kid at the time.

Then they were a jerk for teeing off on a pesky kid. Kids get a break no matter how pesky :laugh:

[bikerchic]

But, now that you raised it, please show me one scientific study that clearly demonstrates second hand smoke in a very limited capacity such as in a bar for two hours twice a month will lead to cancer. I know of no such study and suggest you will not find one.
Here's just a couple but there is way too many to post:

http://lung.bioimmune.com/no_smoking/cigarettes/quitting/facts.asp
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1110547043886_8?s_name=&no_ads=
http://www.whsc.on.ca/Publications/hazardbulletins/winter01-02/secondhandsmoke.html
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/tobacco/problem_tobacco.htm
http://www.bishops.k12.nf.ca/Guidance/nosmoke.htm

[GateandGarden]

Well, I do not think so - your family aside and I am sorry for any bad thing that has happened to them.

But, I think when someone chooses to smoke or really do anything that will shorten their life, then when they go is their time. There is no other time for them in a coulda shoulda woulda mindset. Again, unless you are a non-smoking, non-meat eating, marcrobiotic vegan who works daily to be perfectly physcially fit - you are lessening your time on this planet. Yet, how many actually do that from birth to death? So, I say I will live my life like I want to and when it is my time it is my time.Thank you for being polite, but I have to say again that there are degrees of these things, like everything else in life. You can shorten your life to some minor degree by eating at McDonald's once every two months or you can smoke nonstop for decades. I don't see the point in comparing it to other things. It seems to me that it is one of the most severe of life-threatening habits.

And I think that if someone makes such a choice, he or she can always make another choice. That's the nice thing about choices; many times they can be reversed.

EDIT: And again, thank you for being polite about it. I thought it was a particularly insensitive comment for him or anyone else to make. You can say something like that and you have no idea what's going on in someone's life, more specifically who may have died recently. I think it's best not to direct such a comment to someone, especially on a message board. It's already all too easy for something to come out all wrong or be wrongly interpreted.

[GateandGarden]

Then they were a jerk for teeing off on a pesky kid. Kids get a break no matter how pesky :laugh:I think she was a jerk. Looking back, I had no idea what I was doing and I'm sure I came off like a naive idiot, but I meant well and I think I deserved better.

[strandinthewind]

Here's just a couple but there is way too many to post:

http://lung.bioimmune.com/no_smoking/cigarettes/quitting/facts.asp
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1110547043886_8?s_name=&no_ads=
http://www.whsc.on.ca/Publications/hazardbulletins/winter01-02/secondhandsmoke.html
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/tobacco/problem_tobacco.htm
http://www.bishops.k12.nf.ca/Guidance/nosmoke.htm

Those do not credibly directly link causual second hand smoke to lung cancer. Nice try though.

The first one admits this by saying "Approximately 2% of lung cancer deaths each year are thought to be caused by passive smoking" Thought to be is not direct evidence and 2% is way within any credible margin of error. Ditto for the comment "Scientists estimate that second-hand smoke is responsible for approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths per year among nonsmokers in the U.S."

But, in the end, these tiny percentages of possible cases are repeated exposure and not a few hours in some bar every once and awhile. My fav.'s are the ones that pass by someone smoking on the street one time and think they have cancer - which I submit is so statistically remote that it cannot happen.

Moreover, I think there should be smoking areas so this conv. essentially is moot to me.

[The Tower]

This is the thing--I'm sure we both believe we are born gay. People choose to smoke. That's a big difference.
It's all perspective. One person's upset about smoking is another person's upset about being gay- some think it's a choice, yadda, yadda, yadda.

It's ridiculous of you to say that and surely you know it. That's the most assholeish (word I made up just now) statement I've seen you make. Do you know what my family has been through recently? If you did, you might think twice before making such a casual remark on this subject.
Not really. People die- it's a fact of life. Those that I love I try to spend as much time as I can with them, but when they go is pretty much beyond anything that's under my control.

[bikerchic]

Those do not credibly directly link causual second hand smoke to lung cancer. Nice try though.

The first one admits this by saying "Approximately 2% of lung cancer deaths each year are thought to be caused by passive smoking" Thought to be is not direct evidence and 2% is way within any credible margin of error. Ditto for the comment "Scientists estimate that second-hand smoke is responsible for approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths per year among nonsmokers in the U.S."

But, in the end, these tiny percentages of possible cases are repeated exposure and not a few hours in some bar every once and awhile. My fav.'s are the ones that pass by someone smoking on the street one time and think they have cancer - which I submit is so statistically remote that it cannot happen.

Moreover, I think there should be smoking areas so this conv. essentially is moot to me.
Well if there is scientific proof that 1st hand smoke does indeed cause cancer and that second hand smoke has 4,000 more chemicals in it then 1st hand, wouldn't it just be common sense to believe that it does have some sort of cancer causing effects on our health?

[GateandGarden]

It's all perspective. One person's upset about smoking is another person's upset about being gay- some think it's a choice, yadda, yadda, yadda.Well, for me it wasn't a choice. I don't know any gay person who refers to it as a choice that he or she made.

Not really. People die- it's a fact of life. Those that I love I try to spend as much time as I can with them, but when they go is pretty much beyond anything that's under my control.You can go on stating the obvious as you always do but that doesn't take away how rude and insensitive your comment was.

[strandinthewind]

Well if there is scientific proof that 1st hand smoke does indeed cause cancer and that second hand smoke has 4,000 more chemicals in it then 1st hand, wouldn't it just be common sense to believe that it does have some sort of cancer causing effects on our health?

A google of "second hand smoke lies" will reveal people smater than I's answers to that question.

In the end, I think people should not smoke around people who do not want to be around it - period. I think that if a bar wants to be a smoking bar, it ought to be able to be. If it wants to be non-smoking, it ought to be able to be. I think airplanes, floors on hotels, concerts, malls, etc. ought to be smoke free. I think if that were the case, any chance of SHM cancer would be greatly lessened from the statistically insignificant levels it allegedly is at now.

[The Tower]

You can go on stating the obvious as you always do but that doesn't take away how rude and insensitive your comment was.
It would be rude and insensitive if I had any clue what you're talking about, but unfortunately I do not. My comment was based on people smoking and dying and living with consequences. I wasn't referring to anything in your personal life.

[skcin]

and then there are people who have no desire to quit. One on good friends os one of them. He made his decision and is in his late 50's and in good health. Will he live to 70 - who knows? All I know is he knows smoking is bad for him, but in the end, it is his decision if he wants to live like that and I respect that because I do not like it when people lecture me about how they think I should live my life.

:laugh:


I have a few friends that LOVE to smoke. Love it. No desire to quit. :shrug: And if there were absolutely no health risks, I'd still be puffing away too.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Interesting points...it is my opinion that regardless if there is scientific proof that 2nd hand smoke causes cancer, as everyone has the right to smoke--I also think that people have the right to not be subjected to cigarette smoke if they do not wish to be. It irritates many people's health, especially people with breathing problems...I know if by breathing in 2nd hand smoke it makes me cough, and my chest burn it CANNOT be good for me, right?

I do believe this addiction is a serious one, as my Dad who is 42 had lung cancer, and had one lung removed--and STILL smokes..

Chris

[bikerchic]

Interesting points...it is my opinion that regardless if there is scientific proof that 2nd hand smoke causes cancer, as everyone has the right to smoke--I also think that people have the right to not be subjected to cigarette smoke if they do not wish to be. It irritates many people's health, especially people with breathing problems...I know if by breathing in 2nd hand smoke it makes me cough, and my chest burn it CANNOT be good for me, right?

I do believe this addiction is a serious one, as my Dad who is 42 had lung cancer, and had one lung removed--and STILL smokes..

Chris
So true. It makes me choke and get stuffed up and my eyes water.

[strandinthewind]

So true. It makes me choke and get stuffed up and my eyes water.

that happens to me when I see bad hair or an inappropriate outfit :cool:

[Red]

that happens to me when I see bad hair or an inappropriate outfit :cool:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[skcin]

that happens to me when I see bad hair or an inappropriate outfit :cool:


Go immediately to the "things you didn't need to see" thread.

[gldstwmn]

And completely preventable.

He was a three/four pack a day smoker for years and years and years. Hello smokers??? {knock-knock} Anybody home?? Smoking kills. The sooner you stop the better off you'll be in the long run.

I know all too well. It killed my father.

[The Tower]

I know all too well. It killed my father.
My dad smoked from the late 40's until 1970. Luckily, he quit. He's now at 72 and can attribute part of that to ditching smoking when he did. It would be great if no one smoked because it's such a health hazard and costs the public billions of dollars every year.

My partner Geoffrey smoked and when he discovered he had high blood pressure he stopped. He didn't smoke a lot (neither did I), but it was still a health risk. At no point did I ever suggest or tell Geoffrey that he had to stop smoking- his doctor did, but I didn't- it's his life and his choices.

[bikerchic]

It always humour's me how smoker's just can't admit what they're doing is killing them. They always have to bring up all these other health risks when a non-smoker talks about how deadly it is. It's like, just admit your addicted, it's just too hard quit, you know it's killing you, and stop living in denial.

[strandinthewind]

It always humour's me how smoker's just can't admit what they're doing is killing them. They always have to bring up all these other health risks when a non-smoker talks about how deadly it is. It's like, just admit your addicted, it's just too hard quit, you know it's killing you, and stop living in denial.

I think that is BS - Everyone I know who smokes knows it is bad for them and in general they do not care and, though this concept is foreign to you, they enjoy it. It is sort of like people who do not drink cannot understand how people can stomach the taste of alcohol :shrug: Thus, I see none of this denial you assert as factual.

Again, it is their choice just as it is everyone's choice to do things that are bad for us. None of us are perfect :shrug:

[skcin]

I think that is BS - Everyone I know who smokes knows it is bad for them and in general they do not care.

Again, it is their choice just as it is everyone's choice to do things that are bad for us. None of us are perfect :shrug:


I gotta agree with Strand. I know personally that I knew full well that it would eventually kill me & I still chose to continue smoking for years. No denial, just addiction & lack of willpower here.

[The Tower]

I gotta agree with Strand. I know personally that I knew full well that it would eventually kill me & I still chose to continue smoking for years. No denial, just addiction & lack of willpower here.
I gotta agree with both of you. Although I think part of bikerchic was saying is that smokers tend to act naive about the seriousness of the dangers of smoking- ya know, somehow downplaying the serious health hazard that it is. "Yeah, it's bad for me- but I'm exposing myself to just as much, if not more of a risk to cancer by breathing exhaust and tire fumes, sooooooooooo why not smoke?"

I'm just glad I only smoked one or two cigarettes a day, if that. I stopped smoking- I didn't need to quit an addiction. I never had that "pull" towards nicotine.

[bikerchic]

I gotta agree with both of you. Although I think part of bikerchic was saying is that smokers tend to act naive about the seriousness of the dangers of smoking- ya know, somehow downplaying the serious health hazard that it is. "Yeah, it's bad for me- but I'm exposing myself to just as much, if not more of a risk to cancer by breathing exhaust and tire fumes, sooooooooooo why not smoke?"

I'm just glad I only smoked one or two cigarettes a day, if that. I stopped smoking- I didn't need to quit an addiction. I never had that "pull" towards nicotine.
Yes, thank you. They just seem to turn the other cheek, ignore all the warnings and pictures on the cartons (denial) and think, it will never happen to me and then bring up all the other things in life that are bad for you. I'm not disagreeing on any of the other statistics. I understand the power of addiction and I sympathize for anyone that is battling an addiction (god knows I've had my share in my family). I would hate to wake up every morning and have that hanging over my head, oh god, I gotta quit smoking. I have enough to worry about. I guess I'm just very fortunate.

[bikerchic]

I gotta agree with Strand. I know personally that I knew full well that it would eventually kill me & I still chose to continue smoking for years. No denial, just addiction & lack of willpower here.
But you did quit! :nod:

[strandinthewind]

Yes, thank you. They just seem to turn the other cheek, ignore all the warnings and pictures on the cartons (denial) and think, it will never happen to me and then bring up all the other things in life that are bad for you. I'm not disagreeing on any of the other statistics. I understand the power of addiction and I sympathize for anyone that is battling an addiction (god knows I've had my share in my family). I would hate to wake up every morning and have that hanging over my head, oh god, I gotta quit smoking. I have enough to worry about. I guess I'm just very fortunate.

No they do not - they know the risks of smoking and determine for themselves that whatever joy they get out of smoking is worth that risk, which is different than denial.

Again, I am not bringing up the other bad things to justify smoking - it is a little unfair of you to assert that. I am bringing them up to demonstrate we all make choices and those choices will dictate our lives. Many of these choices (fast food, driving, sex, etc.) can be bad for us, yet we do them anyway and most of them do not get the wrath that smoking gets and most are just as stupid on some level.

[gldstwmn]

Yah, but when they're smoking around us, we're living their filthy (life) habit with them.

You are correct. People can smoke wherever they want, just not around me please.

[gldstwmn]

Hubby's grandmother (smoked about 50 years) just found out she has lung cancer & it has spread to the liver. My grandfather died of lung cancer. My dad recently had 2 close friends die in their 60's from esophogeal cancer, most likely due to heavy smoking & drinking.

I'm sorry to hear that.


I knew it was bad for me, I knew it was expensive, I knew my clothes smelled like smoke. Doesn't matter. Nobody will quit successfully until they make the decision that that's what they want to do. You can lecture, beg, scream, whatever. Won't work.

Nicotene is probably just as addictive as smack or meth or coke. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

:BTW - we all die mostly as a consequence of the choices we made. I mean people who drink alcohol pretty much die before non-drinkers. Yet, I know few drinkers who are willing to stop because of this?

Ummm...ever been to AA? Or is this just some random study you conducted while you were out at the bars? :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Nicotene is probably just as addictive as smack or meth or coke. :shrug:
Did you see the movie "The Insider", wow, the tabacco companies actually lied about nicotene being addictive. That would be enough for me to want to quit.

[strandinthewind]

Ummm...ever been to AA? Or is this just some random study you conducted while you were out at the bars? :laugh:


Well, I WAS in that bar in Hong Kong that had brass plates commemorating people who died there drinking on that very spot :laugh:

Seriously, if people drink a bunch in their life, the odds are they will not live as long as that sober, nictotine free macrobiotic vegan who runds ten miles a day I keep talking about :laugh:

[skcin]

But you did quit! :nod:

Yes, but it's not like I suddenly realized it was bad for me and quit. I kept smoking even after I found out I had asthma.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Nicotene is probably just as addictive as smack or meth or coke. :shrug:

Thank, sorry about your father.

And I agree - a friend of mine did quite a few drugs nack in the day, including meth and coke. He stopped the drugs without any difficulties, but he quitting smoking was tougher.

[gldstwmn]

A google of "second hand smoke lies" will reveal people smater than I's answers to that question.



It would probably also reveal people who sold their soul out to the tobacco companies for lots of cash.

[gldstwmn]

I do believe this addiction is a serious one, as my Dad who is 42 had lung cancer, and had one lung removed--and STILL smokes..

Chris

It's an addiction. I'm sorry about your fathers illness.

[bikerchic]

No they do not - they know the risks of smoking and determine for themselves that whatever joy they get out of smoking is worth that risk, which is different than denial.


You mean the addiction is determining for themselves that it is worth the risk.

[strandinthewind]

It would probably also reveal people who sold their soul out to the tobacco companies for lots of cash.

Well, there is that and there just like there are people who are so rabidly against cigs that they spin and make up lies. That sword cuts both ways. In the end and regardless of the Tobacco Companies, I know people who grown their own tobacco and are not subject to that and these people love to smoke. Who am I to keep them down :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

You mean the addition is determining for themselves that it is worth the risk.

I am unsure what you mean. I think cigs are hard to quit, but it is not like heroine or anything. I mean you get a little angry, but your entire body is not in physical pain to the point you need methadone :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Did you see the movie "The Insider", wow, the tabacco companies actually lied about nicotene being addictive. That would be enough for me to want to quit.

The Insider. Was that with Russell Crowe playing the tobacco executive?

[bikerchic]

Yes, but it's not like I suddenly realized it was bad for me and quit. I kept smoking even after I found out I had asthma.


I'm sorry, I thought you said you quit because you found out you had asthma.

[gldstwmn]

Well, I WAS in that bar in Hong Kong that had brass plates commemorating people who died there drinking on that very spot :laugh:

Seriously, if people drink a bunch in their life, the odds are they will not live as long as that sober, nictotine free macrobiotic vegan who runds ten miles a day I keep talking about :laugh:

Nice dance. You didn't answer the question. Further what you are alluding to in your second paragraph is not what you were talking about in the original post I quoted. Tsk, tsk.

[bikerchic]

The Insider. Was that with Russell Crowe playing the tobacco executive?
:nod: Very good story.

[gldstwmn]

Yes, but it's not like I suddenly realized it was bad for me and quit. I kept smoking even after I found out I had asthma.



Thank, sorry about your father.

And I agree - a friend of mine did quite a few drugs nack in the day, including meth and coke. He stopped the drugs without any difficulties, but he quitting smoking was tougher.

Well, Tower's right. We're all going to leave here some day.
I made my peace with my father's death a while ago. That is to say, as much peace as I can make with it.

[strandinthewind]

Nice dance. You didn't answer the question. Further what you are alluding to in your second paragraph is not what you were talking about in the original post I quoted. Tsk, tsk.

I thought you were joking. Apparently, I did not understand what you were asking. I have not been to AA other than to suport someone who needed to go (who did not smoke BTW :laugh: ) -- I also went to partners of cocaine addicts for one meeting because I was somewhat dating a coke head - I stayed five minutes and realized all I had was self pity and these people had FAR larger issues than I had - so I left and never looked back.

[gldstwmn]

Well, there is that and there just like there are people who are so rabidly against cigs that they spin and make up lies.

Such as? The American Association Of Cigarette Haters?


That sword cuts both ways. In the end and regardless of the Tobacco Companies, I know people who grown their own tobacco and are not subject to that and these people love to smoke. Who am I to keep them down :shrug:

Are we talking about pot now?

[strandinthewind]

Such as? The American Association Of Cigarette Haters?

Are they still around :laugh:


Are we talking about pot now?

No, they grow tobacco as a side thing.

[gldstwmn]

:nod: Very good story.

I vaguely remember it. That guy was just the tip of the iceberg.

[bikerchic]

I vaguely remember it. That guy was just the tip of the iceberg.
oh yeah. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

I thought you were joking. Apparently, I did not understand what you were asking. I have not been to AA other than to suport someone who needed to go (who did not smoke BTW :laugh: ) -- I also went to partners of cocaine addicts for one meeting because I was somewhat dating a coke head - I stayed five minutes and realized all I had was self pity and these people had FAR larger issues than I had - so I left and never looked back.

Gah. I was joking partly. Here is what you said:BTW - we all die mostly as a consequence of the choices we made. I mean people who drink alcohol pretty much die before non-drinkers. Yet, I know few drinkers who are willing to stop because of this?

Having sat in a room with people at NA or AA can you honestly tell me that they don't know or care that the disease is killing them and that they don't want to stop for that reason? Are you serious?

[strandinthewind]

oh yeah. :nod:

The tobacco industry was soooo stupid with that. I remember when that big wig testified before Congress that nicotine was not addictive - which was laughable. In fact, it lead pretty much directly to the lawsuits, which I, of course, am against because they are part of the whole "I am not responsible for my actions though I knew what I was doing - so pay me a million dollars" society we live in.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Having sat in a room with people at NA or AA can you honestly tell me that they don't know or care that the disease is killing them and that they don't want to stop for that reason? Are you serious?

That is where the confusion was. I was not talking about alcoholics. I was talking about people who party and are not addicted. Certainly a few drinks every weekend is not that great for you and could shorten your life as opposed to the terrifying vegan I keep referring to :shrug:

[Dreammms]

And I agree - a friend of mine did quite a few drugs nack in the day, including meth and coke. He stopped the drugs without any difficulties, but he quitting smoking was tougher.

I have friend that did coke for years and years and smoked cigs. He was able to quit coke four years ago and is still having trouble giving up cigs. He knows smoking is bad for him but it's just too hard for him to quit.

[strandinthewind]

I have friend that did coke for years and years and smoked cigs. He was able to quit coke four years ago and is still having trouble giving up cigs. He knows smoking is bad for him but it's just too hard for him to quit.

I often wonder if that is because cigs are legal and it is in general considered okay from that point of view to smoke them.

Also, while the addiction to nictotine is on par with heroine, coke, etc., I often wonder if people think it is okay to smoke because it does not have the same immediate and damaging effect coke, heroine, etc. do. For example, I know lots of people who have lost everything (jobs, money, family, health, etc. ) over coke, heroine, etc. -- but I know none who have lost those things over cigs. though when they hit 55 or so, they may or may not get lung cancer. Maybe the threat is too remote so they do it anyway as opposed to coke, heroine, etc.

[Dreammms]

I often wonder if that is because cigs are legal and it is in general considered okay from that point of view to smoke them.

Also, while the addiction to nictotine is on par with heroine, coke, etc., I often wonder if people think it is okay to smoke because it does not have the same immediate and damaging effect coke, heroine, etc. do. For example, I know lots of people who have lost everything (jobs, money, family, health, etc. ) over coke, heroine, etc. -- but I know none who have lost those things over cigs. though when they hit 55 or so, they may or may not get lung cancer. Maybe the threat is too remote so they do it anyway as opposed to coke, heroine, etc.


I think that is the case. Coke is illegal. Smoking isn't. I know one of the reasons my friend quit doing coke is because he got caught and he got off with probation. So I guess he was kinda scared into it. He is very happy now four years later that he did quit and says he doesn't miss it. I guess he knows that smoking is bad for him but in his mind there is nothing there really forcing him to stop. Of course he is scared of the risks of smoking but I guess it's too hard to quit. I never had the addiction to any drugs or cigs. So I don't know how it feels. I am able to have a cig here and there if I want and I don't get addicted.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I am able to have a cig here and there if I want and I don't get addicted.

Me too - I smoke on vacation, like in Vegas last weekend, but it pretty much is only when I have cocktails. For example, this last Sat., I had none during the day - until we had cocktails, which was around 5:30 p.m. I had none on Sunday and none today. I often go for weeks or months without them. But, YEARS ago, I smoked during the day, which I have no desire to do now.

[dissention]

In Italy it has just been approved a law that forbids to smoke in any office, bar, restaurant, etc outside the smoking areas and it also encourages the local owner to call the police to fine those who don't respect the rules; but local owners have decided not to denounce anyone saying that being sheriffs is not their job.

Romy

Massachusetts made it illegal to smoke in any bar, restaurant, or public establishment a couple of years ago. Thank the stars for that, too, because I was ready to beat a bitches ass when I would go into Bickford's for breakfast and catch someone lighting up. Non-smoking section, my ass, I can still smell that whoreanus **** in the air, seeping into my nostrils, and going into my lungs. People that try to light up in public need to be bitchslapped.

[Dreammms]

Massachusetts made it illegal to smoke in any bar, restaurant, or public establishment a couple of years ago.

So did New York. :nod:

[dissention]

I love it when in the airports, the employees are smoking under the No Smoking signs :eek:

You know that if I saw that ****, I'd cause a scene. I would scream at the top of my pink lungs for their supervisor and demand a voucher for the gift shop just for my troubles.

[bikerchic]

Massachusetts made it illegal to smoke in any bar, restaurant, or public establishment a couple of years ago. Thank the stars for that, too, because I was ready to beat a bitches ass when I would go into Bickford's for breakfast and catch someone lighting up. Non-smoking section, my ass, I can still smell that whoreanus **** in the air, seeping into my nostrils, and going into my lungs. People that try to light up in public need to be bitchslapped.
Thanks dissention. You said it best! That's what I've been trying to say all along! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

You know that if I saw that ****, I'd cause a scene. I would scream at the top of my pink lungs for their supervisor and demand a voucher for the gift shop just for my troubles.


Well, first of all darling, I want to see what YOU pick out in the airport gift shop :laugh:

Secondly, people were bitching at them, but they could have given a rat's a$$ :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

So did New York. :nod:

So did Florida, Atlanta, and bunch of other places. I think it is great because the places are less dense for it even though people have to go outside to smoke. I think that is a minor inconvenience for the people who do not want to be around it. Of course, I also think that if a bar wants to allow smoking it should be able to.

[Dreammms]

Me too - I smoke on vacation, like in Vegas last weekend, but it pretty much is only when I have cocktails. For example, this last Sat., I had none during the day - until we had cocktails, which was around 5:30 p.m. I had none on Sunday and none today. I often go for weeks or months without them. But, YEARS ago, I smoked during the day, which I have no desire to do now.


Well, at least you are cutting down. :)

Last weekend when I was drinking I did have two cigs. But I haven't had one since. But then maybe next weekend or a month from now I might have one.

[Dreammms]

So did Florida, Atlanta, and bunch of other places. I think it is great because the places are less dense for it even though people have to go outside to smoke. I think that is a minor inconvenience for the people who do not want to be around it. Of course, I also think that if a bar wants to allow smoking it should be able to.

Well, there is a bar here and there that DOES allow smoking. I guess they just sneak it.

[dissention]

Well, first of all darling, I want to see what YOU pick out in the airport gift shop :laugh:

Bottles of spring water with sport caps on them to spray at the cigarettes of the selfish bitches who want to pollute my lungs with their disgusting habit.

Secondly, people were bitching at them, but they could have given a rat's a$$ :laugh:

Like I said, I'd raise holy hell and scream for a supervisor or two. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

Well, at least you are cutting down. :)

Last weekend when I was drinking I did have two cigs. But I haven't had one since. But then maybe next weekend or a month from now I might have one.

I went Jan., Feb., most of March (sans the China trip) - April, some of May, almost all of June, and three weeks of July without any cigs. Aug. has been a relative smoke fest though :laugh: It really depends if I am out drinking and even then, I may not have one. That works for me I guess :cool:

[strandinthewind]

Well, there is a bar here and there that DOES allow smoking. I guess they just sneak it.

I know of a few - one of which is in the East Village and is a little scary. I have also closed more than one bar, when they lock the door and its the regulars and it is okay then.

[Dreammms]

That works for me I guess :cool:

And I guess that's honestly all that matters! :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

Bottles of spring water with sport caps on them to spray at the cigarettes of the selfish bitches who want to pollute my lungs with their disgusting habit . . .


LOL - boy that five second exposure is gonna kill ya :rolleyes:

[Dreammms]

I know of a few - one of which is in the East Village and is a little scary. I have also closed more than one bar, when they lock the door and its the regulars and it is okay then.

I live about 45 minutes from NYC and there are only a couple of bars here that do allow it and the bars aren't located in scary areas. I wonder why they haven't gotten caught.

[strandinthewind]

I live about 45 minutes from NYC and there are only a couple of bars here that do allow it and the bars aren't located in scary areas. I wonder why they haven't gotten caught.

The Chief of Police probably smokes there :laugh: Who knows though :cool:

[dissention]

Thanks dissention. You said it best! That's what I've been trying to say all along! :laugh:

Oh, you're quite welcome. :D Smoking is something I can't deal with. It gives me headaches, sore throats, etc. It's vile.

[Dreammms]

The Chief of Police probably smokes there :laugh: Who knows though :cool:

:lol: :lol: :lol: that could be the reason

[dissention]

LOL - boy that five second exposure is gonna kill ya :rolleyes:

Yup. It's called being inconsiderate. If they want to smoke, by all means do so. But to expose me or anyone else to it is not only inconsiderate, but it's rude and only invites the kind of "telling someone how to live their life" comments that smokers seem to abhor. If you don't want to hear it, have some decency and take it outside so that the people who don't want to be around it don't have to be. It ain't hard to comprehend.

[strandinthewind]

Yup. It's called being inconsiderate. If they want to smoke, by all means do so. But to expose me or anyone else to it is not only inconsiderate, but it's rude and only invites the kind of "telling someone how to live their life" comments that smokers seem to abhor. If you don't want to hear it, have some decency and take it outside so that the people who don't want to be around it don't have to be. It ain't hard to comprehend.

Oh I agree, there has to be a happy medium. For example, people should be allowed to smoke outside of buildings, but not by the entrance to a building.

[dissention]

Oh I agree, there has to be a happy medium. For example, people should be allowed to smoke outside of buildings, but not by the entrance to a building.

Precisely. That's why I show my contempt for people who do. I shouldn't have to wander through a heavy gauze of smoke to get to my destination. Much like spandex, smoking is a privilege and not a right.

[strandinthewind]

Precisely. That's why I show my contempt for people who do. I shouldn't have to wander through a heavy gauze of smoke to get to my destination. Much like spandex, smoking is a privilege and not a right.

Child - I am old enough to remember smoking on planes :eek:

[gldstwmn]

That is where the confusion was. I was not talking about alcoholics. I was talking about people who party and are not addicted. Certainly a few drinks every weekend is not that great for you and could shorten your life as opposed to the terrifying vegan I keep referring to :shrug:

Now I'm totally confused. :confused: :shrug: :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Oh I agree, there has to be a happy medium. For example, people should be allowed to smoke outside of buildings, but not by the entrance to a building.

How about 2 miles away from the entrance to a building. MY daughter and I were down at Sick Kids Hospital for the day, she was having a series of tests done, we went outside to eat our lunch, it was a beautiful afternoon and we wanted to sit on the ledge of this huge circular water fountain but the only spot left was by a smoker. Of course we weren't going to sit there, so we had to go down the street abit and sit on a little ledge protruding from the building. No big deal, but my point is why should I (the non-smoker) have to adjust my life for the smokers. Another thing that made me sick was the little kids that were sitting out there hooked up to an oxygen tank or I.V. with their parents sitting beside them puffing away. :distress:

[gldstwmn]

I often wonder if that is because cigs are legal and it is in general considered okay from that point of view to smoke them.

Also, while the addiction to nictotine is on par with heroine, coke, etc., I often wonder if people think it is okay to smoke because it does not have the same immediate and damaging effect coke, heroine, etc. do. For example, I know lots of people who have lost everything (jobs, money, family, health, etc. ) over coke, heroine, etc. -- but I know none who have lost those things over cigs. though when they hit 55 or so, they may or may not get lung cancer. Maybe the threat is too remote so they do it anyway as opposed to coke, heroine, etc.

How many families do you suppose have been destroyed by cancer?

[gldstwmn]

Massachusetts made it illegal to smoke in any bar, restaurant, or public establishment a couple of years ago. Thank the stars for that, too, because I was ready to beat a bitches ass when I would go into Bickford's for breakfast and catch someone lighting up. Non-smoking section, my ass, I can still smell that whoreanus **** in the air, seeping into my nostrils, and going into my lungs. People that try to light up in public need to be bitchslapped.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I'm so glad you're here to make the discussion more lively. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

How many families do you suppose have been destroyed by cancer?

Well, lots, but it usually is much later as opposed to the immediate threat of coke, etc. That is the point I was making.

[gldstwmn]

Bottles of spring water with sport caps on them to spray at the cigarettes of the selfish bitches who want to pollute my lungs with their disgusting habit.

Weeeeeee! :blob2: :blob2: :blob2:

[strandinthewind]

How about 2 miles away from the entrance to a building. MY daughter and I were down at Sick Kids Hospital for the day, she was having a series of tests done, we went outside to eat our lunch, it was a beautiful afternoon and we wanted to sit on the ledge of this huge circular water fountain but the only spot left was by a smoker. Of course we weren't going to sit there, so we had to go down the street abit and sit on a little ledge protruding from the building. No big deal, but my point is why should I (the non-smoker) have to adjust my life for the smokers. Another thing that made me sick was the little kids that were sitting out there hooked up to an oxygen tank or I.V. with their parents sitting beside them puffing away. :distress:

Well, two miles is assinine, unrealistic, and why people want to tell people to Piss Off when they make suggestions like that :laugh:

It is a big world and the smokers have to live with the non-smokers, etc. If both sides give a little, it will be a lot easier. I mean that smoker you refered to had just as much right as you to be there, whether you like that or not, and there were other places to go and they were there first.

[gldstwmn]

Well, lots, but it usually is much later as opposed to the immediate threat of coke, etc. That is the point I was making.

Not necessarily. The financial ramifications can be devastating.

[strandinthewind]

Not necessarily. The financial ramifications can be devastating.


You are missing my point, which is that people continue to smoke after they have stopped the coke etc. because the threat of the cancey they may or may not get from the cigs is a furture threat as opposed to the business they may have just lost due to the coke, but not the cigs.

To your point, yes, the financial ramifications of cancer can be huge, even if you have insurance.

[bikerchic]

I mean that smoker you refered to had just as much right as you to be there, whether you like that or not, and there were other places to go and they were there first.
Ya, smokers have the right to smoke around all those little sick kids who went outside for a "breath of fresh air" so to speak, hell ya, and they were there first damn it......your all heart strandie.

[strandinthewind]

Ya, smokers have the right to smoke around all those little sick kids who went outside for a "breath of fresh air" so to speak, hell ya, and they were there first damn it......your all heart strandie.

No, but they have a right to smoke outside of a building if it is far from the entrance, which I assume this was. I mean you apparently want them never to smoke anywhere at all ever. That is never going to happen and it is unfair to them. Moreover, you and your kid did not have to sit there nor did you have a right to do so. But, now you are yelling and attacking me personally. So, I am done with this discussion.

[bikerchic]

But, now you are yelling and attacking me personally. So, I am done with this discussion.
yelling and attacking :shrug: o.k.

[fleetln]

Peter Jennings was my favorite news anchor and that is saying a lot because I don't think much of media-types. He was a very compassionate person. (and handsome too.) RIP Mr. Jennings. :(


Laura



Me Too: Rest In Peace Peter :(



Dani

[strandinthewind]

yelling and attacking :shrug: o.k.

that was the tone I took when you said "damn it......your all heart strandie" and then spun it to mean I said or implied "Ya, smokers have the right to smoke around all those little sick kids who went outside for a 'breath of fresh air'" because they were there first. I never did that - I was referring to people a respectable distance from the entrance to a building, which presumably in front of a fountain large enough for several people to sit on the ledge of would be. But, if you did not mean it that way, so be it.

In the end, I am sorry you and your kid had to move on, but if this smoker was far enough from the entrance so that the smoke was not going in the building or attacking the people entering and leaving the building, then they had a right to be there. Most buildings have a designated area though.

[bikerchic]

that was the tone I took when you said "damn it......

"damn it", is not exactly my idea of a harsh tone but whatever.


I was referring to people a respectable distance from the entrance to a building,

What do you consider a respectable distance?

In the end, I am sorry you and your kid had to move on, but if this smoker was far enough from the entrance so that the smoke was not going in the building or attacking the people entering and leaving the building, then they had a right to be there. Most buildings have a designated area though.
The fountain was right at the front of the hospital, part of the entrance.

What about outdoor patio's at restaurant's, they're full of smoker's now. Does that mean that non-smoker's cannot enjoy the outdoor's for a drink or something to eat anymore?

[amber]

What about outdoor patio's at restaurant's, they're full of smoker's now. Does that mean that non-smoker's cannot enjoy the outdoor's for a drink or something to eat anymore?
Yep. That's what it means. Sorry sweetie. Sad but true.












:laugh: :sorry: JK. :D

[bikerchic]

Yep. That's what it means. Sorry sweetie. Sad but true












:laugh: :sorry: JK. :D
:laugh: What happen to your # of day's without smoking countdown, Amber?

[amber]

:laugh: What happen to your # of day's without smoking countdown, Amber?
Sadly interrupted. Don't worry, though, I'm fighting the good fight.
Note to self:
"Dear Amber -
You can never, ever, ever, go out drinking with your friends again.



Love, Amber.
*You skank smoking whore!* :mad: "

I've been on and off the wagon, very frustrating. I haven't been able to go to Acupuncture, which I now firmly believe helps a lot. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

What do you consider a respectable distance?

Well, in places it is outlawed, the law sets it at usually around 20 or so feet. In places where the law sets it, the building usually does. It usually is somewhere 20 feet from the actual door - but it really depends on the building and the grounds.

The fountain was right at the front of the hospital, part of the entrance.

I assumed it was a large fountain (like 25 feet wide) because you said there were several people sitting on it.

What about outdoor patio's at restaurant's, they're full of smoker's now. Does that mean that non-smoker's cannot enjoy the outdoor's for a drink or something to eat anymore?

Well, they were full of smokers before in that most patios were the smoking areas :shrug: Plus, you are going to have to compromise by sitting inside or going some place else. I mean the smokers are compromising by not going inside, etc. - in the end, its not a perfect world and people are going to smoke and that is going to effect you unless you never leave your house :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Sadly interrupted. Don't worry, though, I'm fighting the good fight.
Note to self:
[B]"Dear Amber -
You can never, ever, ever, go out drinking with your friends again . . . .

Yes you can. I do it often. Congrats though!!!!!!!!

[bikerchic]

Sadly interrupted. Don't worry, though, I'm fighting the good fight.
Note to self:
"Dear Amber -
You can never, ever, ever, go out drinking with your friends again.



Love, Amber.
*You skank smoking whore!* :mad: "

I've been on and off the wagon, very frustrating. I haven't been able to go to Acupuncture, which I now firmly believe helps a lot. :wavey:
I'm rooten for ya Amber, you go girl, you can do it!

[amber]

I'm rooten for ya Amber, you go girl, you can do it!
I CAN DO IT!!!!
yep. I have plans. big plans. :D

[bikerchic]

Well, they were full of smokers before in that most patios were the smoking areas :shrug:

I mean before when the smoking area was a section in the restaurant and the patio was just an outdoor patio, open for everyone. Now that they have been kicked outside, they consume the whole patio.


Plus, you are going to have to compromise by sitting inside or going some place else. I mean the smokers are compromising by not going inside, etc. - in the end, its not a perfect world and people are going to smoke and that is going to effect you unless you never leave your house :shrug:
I believe it will be just a matter of time before smoking will not be allowed on the patio's and smokers will have to go out on the street to smoke or will have to sit in their car.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I believe it will be just a matter of time before smoking will not be allowed on the patio's and smokers will have to go out on the street to smoke or will have to sit in their car.

I actually have no problem with them going outside, except for a true uncovered outdoor patio area - then I have less of a problem and consider that a suitable compromise.

But, sitting in the car just will not work in that in NYC and many other big cities, most people do not have cars and other places places could be the situation where the cars are parked blocks away :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Well, two miles is assinine, unrealistic, and why people want to tell people to Piss Off when they make suggestions like that :laugh:

It is a big world and the smokers have to live with the non-smokers, etc. If both sides give a little, it will be a lot easier. I mean that smoker you refered to had just as much right as you to be there, whether you like that or not, and there were other places to go and they were there first.

We're talking about a hospital. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

You are missing my point, which is that people continue to smoke after they have stopped the coke etc. because the threat of the cancey they may or may not get from the cigs is a furture threat as opposed to the business they may have just lost due to the coke, but not the cigs.

To your point, yes, the financial ramifications of cancer can be huge, even if you have insurance.

I get your point. My point is that they are equally destructive addictions.

[gldstwmn]

Sadly interrupted. Don't worry, though, I'm fighting the good fight.
Note to self:
"Dear Amber -
You can never, ever, ever, go out drinking with your friends again.



Love, Amber.
*You skank smoking whore!* :mad: "

I've been on and off the wagon, very frustrating. I haven't been able to go to Acupuncture, which I now firmly believe helps a lot. :wavey:

I think it does too. :nod:

[estranged4life]

Tom Brokaw & Dan Rather on ABC's Nightline with Ted Koppel tonight, That's a trip to the brain!!!

[gldstwmn]

I believe it will be just a matter of time before smoking will not be allowed on the patio's and smokers will have to go out on the street to smoke or will have to sit in their car.

Good. :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Tom Brokaw & Dan Rather on ABC's Nightline with Ted Koppel tonight, That's a trip to the brain!!!

That comes on in about 10 minutes. I'll have to check it out.
I also heard Letterman cracked a beauty about W's 5 week vacation during the opening monologue. What to do, what to do? :laugh:

[estranged4life]

To your point, yes, the financial ramifications of cancer can be huge, even if you have insurance.

Deb's cancer (Even with insurance) was financially damaging/devastating/draining to us, Any life savings we had (Saving's acct/401k/etc.) is practically non-existant now, We get by, But not as easily as before.

At last count, We figure Deb's $$$$ amount of the whole medical treatment (Including a near 4 month stay in a hospital due to complications from her chemo-treatments) is close to the $600,000 range, Give/take a few thousand $$$$'s

[Johnny Stew]

Smoking is something I can't deal with. It gives me headaches, sore throats, etc. It's vile.I couldn't agree more, and it makes me sick, too. I've even gotten sinus infections from prolonged exposure.

I have zero compassion for "smokers' rights"... if you want to pollute your lungs, then do it somewhere away from me. And I personally think that all restaurants and public buildings should be smoke-free.
Why on Earth does one need to smoke while EATING anyway?!?

[Johnny Stew]

It always humour's me how smoker's just can't admit what they're doing is killing them. They always have to bring up all these other health risks when a non-smoker talks about how deadly it is. It's like, just admit your addicted, it's just too hard quit, you know it's killing you, and stop living in denial.My friend Anne is the ultimate example of smoker denial... she claims she can't quit smoking, not because she's addicted, but because the nicotine in the cigarettes helps her ADHD. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, if she goes 15 minutes without a cigarette, she turns into Bitchzilla. And since we do not allow smoking in our house, she will stand outside in 5-degree weather, if she has to, just to have a cigarette.

Nah, that's not an addiction! :laugh:

(For the record, I'm not talking about her behind her back -- I tell her all of this to her face. :laugh: )

[The Tower]

I CAN DO IT!!!!
yep. I have plans. big plans. :D
You CAN do it!!!!

I believe in you!

XOXOXOXO

:xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

We're talking about a hospital. :shrug:

Every hospital I have ever been to has a smoking area that is far from the entrance and the exit :shrug: -- usually is is at the top of the parking deck. But, assuming it is at least 20 or so feet from any entrance, it is not like they are smoking in the building and it is not having any effect on the patients in the hospital. So, your point is not really relevant to anything about the patients in the hospital if that was the point you were making :shrug: Moreover, if you assert there should be no smoking on hospital property, good luck getting that past the unions (ironic isn't it that I am citing unions) ; and how far do we take that - can people smoke in the designated area in front of the building next door to the hospital - what about two doors down?

[strandinthewind]

I get your point. My point is that they are equally destructive addictions.

Not really. Cigarettes do not alter your mind and ability to cope and act in society like coke/heroine/tina/etc. I have never seen anyone kill for a cigarette. Yet, people kill all the time to get a fix from drugs. So, while cigs. (like many other things) probably will lead to cancer and perhaps financial devestation many decades later, cigs. do not have the same immediate effect on a smoker's life that the desecent into drugs does. Again, when was the last time someone lost their job due to their cig. habit - I submit even if that has happened, the number of times is 99% less than the number of times a person has lost their job due to coke/heroine/tina/etc. - which is a rather interesting statement considering far more people smoke then the number that do coke/heroine/tina/etc.

In the end and again, all are bad for you and probably will lead to your ruin - I am not disagreeing with that.

[strandinthewind]

Deb's cancer (Even with insurance) was financially damaging/devastating/draining to us, Any life savings we had (Saving's acct/401k/etc.) is practically non-existant now, We get by, But not as easily as before.

At last count, We figure Deb's $$$$ amount of the whole medical treatment (Including a near 4 month stay in a hospital due to complications from her chemo-treatments) is close to the $600,000 range, Give/take a few thousand $$$$'s


The state of medical insurance in this country is apalling. There should be better coverage. Sadly, no policitians seem really interested in taking on the ins. companies and instead suggest we buy supplemental policies, which are great if you can afford it, but many cannot. Then, to qualify for state and Fed. care, you have to be essentially destitute. I mean I get that a person may wind up with a a saved life, but to come back to no home, no money, etc. after a devastating illness is just wrong on sooo many levels.

[strandinthewind]

My friend Anne is the ultimate example of smoker denial... she claims she can't quit smoking, not because she's addicted, but because the nicotine in the cigarettes helps her ADHD. :rolleyes:

Before you get too unlearnedly smug -

"Nicotine, in particular, may act as a medication that improves ADHD symptoms."

"Deficiencies in these neurotransmitters create an intense need that causes individuals to seek chemicals, such as nicotine or certain drugs, that actually attach to receptors for dopamine and that help reduce these needs."

"Nicotine Replacement. Nicotine improves ADHD symptoms."

http://www.reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc30.html

see also -- http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archive/Potter_nicotine.pdf

of course, that does not mean she has to smoke a cig. to get the nicotine :cool:

[BTFLCHLD]

news announced this morning that dana reeves (widow of chris reeves) has been diagnosed with lung cancer...
did she smoke?

[gldstwmn]

Every hospital I have ever been to has a smoking area that is far from the entrance and the exit :

Maybe they should add a bar to pad their profit margins. Put it in the parking garage.

[gldstwmn]

Before you get too unlearnedly smug -

"Nicotine, in particular, may act as a medication that improves ADHD symptoms."

"Deficiencies in these neurotransmitters create an intense need that causes individuals to seek chemicals, such as nicotine or certain drugs, that actually attach to receptors for dopamine and that help reduce these needs."

"Nicotine Replacement. Nicotine improves ADHD symptoms."

http://www.reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc30.html

see also -- http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archive/Potter_nicotine.pdf

of course, that does not mean she has to smoke a cig. to get the nicotine :cool:

I wonder who funded that study?

[strandinthewind]

I wonder who funded that study?

Why don't you find out :rolleyes:

It is pretty much proven that stmuilants help control the symptoms of ADHD - if you don't believe me, look it up.

[strandinthewind]

Maybe they should add a bar to pad their profit margins. Put it in the parking garage.

Well, that is not a bad idea considering how many times I would have LOVED a cocktail while there :laugh:

P.S. - almost all Charity Hospitals have them as well and they have no profit margins :wavey:

[SuzeQuze]

Why don't you find out :rolleyes:

It is pretty much proven that stmuilants help control the symptoms of ADHD - if you don't believe me, look it up.

I am sure this is true, however, a drug like Strattera is much safer. So Stewey is right in that that is an excuse not to quit and not a real reason. She can get treated for the ADHD.

I think a lot of people smoke because they are depressed too. The stimulating effects can temporarily pull you out of that. For these people the idea of quitting and facing their moods without their cigarettes (who feel like best friends) is terrifying. Stewey, your friend may be depressed since irritability (Bitchzilla) is a symptom.

I think people wrongly believe they are in control using drugs like cigs and booze to control their moods whereas they see a prescription as giving up control. This is not true since the prescription not only treats the disease but it will not put you at risk like the others.

[SuzeQuze]

Well, that is not a bad idea considering how many times I would have LOVED a cocktail while there :laugh:

P.S. - almost all Charity Hospitals have them as well and they have no profit margins :wavey:

You can't smoke on the property of Mass General Hospital at all.

[SuzeQuze]

I think she was a jerk. Looking back, I had no idea what I was doing and I'm sure I came off like a naive idiot, but I meant well and I think I deserved better.

I agree, it sounds like she was just a jerk. If a child told me something like that I would be touched not offended.

[wondergirl9847]

What I was just reading about Stevie being self-absorbed because of her letter to Peter Jennings....applies to politicians in this country. They are so self-absorbed and buffered from the real world, they don't know how to deal with regular Americans. These men are wealthy and probably have the best health care money can buy, so who cares about everyone else. It is disgusting and I pray the next president will be younger and realize that Americans are made up of mostly middle-class and poverty-level people. :mad:

These 90 year old men don't know sh*t about sh*t.

[GateandGarden]

I agree, it sounds like she was just a jerk. If a child told me something like that I would be touched not offended.
Thank you Suze. :xoxo:

[sara1998]

All this bitching makes me want a cigarette. I'm sick of non-smokers being on their high-horse and making smokers out to be something of a sub-standard culture. We're not completly stupid- we know the risks, we understand the potential consequences, we've heard the warnings, and, ultimatly, it's up to us. I'll be the first to tell you it's one of the stupidest things I've picked up. But, whoever it was that was complaining that the smokers were on the patio of a restaruant, get over it. Non-smokers wanted us out of restaurants, that's ok, and I even agree with it. But it's called give and take. We're not in there, we took it outside. This is all I will contribute to this thread. It's like arguing politics and religion. No one will ever win.
-Now, I'm taking my sub-standard ass outside to smoke.

[gldstwmn]

You can't smoke on the property of Mass General Hospital at all.

Kudos to Mass General.

[GateandGarden]

All this bitching makes me want a cigarette. I'm sick of non-smokers being on their high-horse and making smokers out to be something of a sub-standard culture. We're not completly stupid- we know the risks, we understand the potential consequences, we've heard the warnings, and, ultimatly, it's up to us. I'll be the first to tell you it's one of the stupidest things I've picked up. But, whoever it was that was complaining that the smokers were on the patio of a restaruant, get over it. Non-smokers wanted us out of restaurants, that's ok, and I even agree with it. But it's called give and take. We're not in there, we took it outside. This is all I will contribute to this thread. It's like arguing politics and religion. No one will ever win.
-Now, I'm taking my sub-standard ass outside to smoke.I just want you to know that I'm not someone who feels that way at all, Maria. I would never think that smokers are some collective different type of people and I'm superior to them. That's absurd. I just wanted to say that that is not how I feel about you or anyone else who happens to smoke.

[strandinthewind]

Kudos to Mass General.

Well, when I was there awhile back, you could go outside and smoke - maybe they changed that since then. But, it was less than a year ago.

My curiousity was peaked, so I did a little research. The smoking policy on their website reads:

Smoking policy changes

Changes have been made to the MGH smoking policy to reduce smoking on the MGH campus. The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) requires that the smoking policy is consistently adhered to, and noncompliance could have a negative effect on the hospital's JCAHO accreditation.

Smoking is prohibited in the interior of any hospital building or department, as well as outside all entrances and exits of the hospital and the perimeter of the buildings. Smokers are expected to cross the streets or move away from common areas to smoke. To help ensure the safety of patients, visitors and employees who smoke, a smoking shelter has been built next to the entrance of the Fruit Street garage. It is open seven days a week and will give smokers a place to go that is away from the main entrance as well as the WACC entrance, but is close enough to be safe after hours. Smokers currently smoking outside of the Jackson and Gray lobbies on Blossom Street should use the old shuttle bus stop that is behind the current shelter outside of the Jackson Lobby. This area also has been designated as a smoking-permitted location. Smoking is not permitted on the hospital side of Blossom or Charles streets.

For patients who smoke, a room is open in the Warren corridor across from the glass-enclosed play area of the Back-up Child Care Center. This room is for patients only and will be open from 7 am to 8 pm daily. It is well ventilated and has an emergency phone to Security as well as a closed-circuit television camera for patient safety. Employees smoking in the room will be subject to disciplinary action.

http://www.massgeneral.org/pubaffairs/Issues/012100smoking.htm

It is dated January 21, 2000 - so it could be old. So, I called them and they said it was okay to smoke outside of the building and away from any entrances. So, they apparently have the same policy I was talking about.

Suze, however and I think, works there. So, she may know of more recent changes.

[estranged4life]

The state of medical insurance in this country is apalling. There should be better coverage. Sadly, no policitians seem really interested in taking on the ins. companies and instead suggest we buy supplemental policies, which are great if you can afford it, but many cannot. Then, to qualify for state and Fed. care, you have to be essentially destitute. I mean I get that a person may wind up with a a saved life, but to come back to no home, no money, etc. after a devastating illness is just wrong on sooo many levels.

in April 2004 we had to apply for assistance (Food Stamps) because after we payed all of our bills we were broke (Which finally flattened our savings to $0), And we werent about to starve because our pride forbid us for asking for help.

We received only temporary help for 2 months, And even then we were told we were ONLY being helped since we never had to apply before and "strapped the system"...We were however told that if "we had a child then they would have bent over backwards for us"...I think that is utter complete BS.

Kinda sucked for Deb to finally gain her strength to survive her illness and come home to only find out we made too much $$$ to qualify for basically ANY assistance.

We'll be filing bankruptcy soon because when it came down to brass tacks, Were we supposed to pay our credit card bills and not pay for Deb to survive? Sorry, I had a priority in my life, And that was to see Deb survive, Sorry the credit card companies didnt see it that way.

[DrummerDeanna]

I don't think of smokers as sub-human or whatever.

BUT I do think it's quite the inconsiderate habit sometimes. Like someone mentioned - smoking right outside of a door.

My sister and nephew have really bad asthma - just PASSING THROUGH smoke can and has triggered horrible asthma attacks -that's not fair.

It's not fair that I, as someone who has chosen not to smoke, still has to be subjected to smoke :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

in April 2004 we had to apply for assistance (Food Stamps) because after we payed all of our bills we were broke (Which finally flattened our savings to $0), And we werent about to starve because our pride forbid us for asking for help.

We received only temporary help for 2 months, And even then we were told we were ONLY being helped since we never had to apply before and "strapped the system"...We were however told that if "we had a child then they would have bent over backwards for us"...I think that is utter complete BS.

Kinda sucked for Deb to finally gain her strength to survive her illness and come home to only find out we made too much $$$ to qualify for basically ANY assistance.

We'll be filing bankruptcy soon becase when it came down to brass tacks, Were we supposed to pay our credit card bills and not pay for Deb to survive? Sorry, I had a priority in my life, And that was to see Deb survive, Sorry the credit card companies didnt see it that way.

Listen, I have seen many people forced into bankruptcy from this and similar things. You did nothing wrong. The system just sucks. So, do not lose sleep over the bankruptcy, just make sure you hire a seasoned lawyer who knows how the system works :cool:

[estranged4life]

Listen, I have seen many people forced into bankruptcy from this and similar things. You did nothing wrong. The system just sucks. So, do not lose sleep over the bankruptcy, just make sure you hire a seasoned lawyer who knows how the system works :cool:

because I know what I did was right (ie-Took care of my wife), The credit card idiots have/had no compassion (Unlike our bank loan for our car, The bank completely understood the situation and never gave us ANY hassle even when we were about 2 months behind on our payments...We easily paid the loan off this past summer) so they can kiss my big fat hairy ass.

[strandinthewind]

because I know what I did was right (ie-Took care of my wife), The credit card idiots have/had no compassion (Unlike our bank loan for our car, The bank completely understood the situation and never gave us ANY hassle even when we were about 2 months behind on our payments...We easily paid the loan off this past summer) so they can kiss my big fat hairy ass.

LOL - I want a picture of that kiss :laugh:

Credit Card companies will almost always not even bother to work with you until you are on the verge of bankruptcy and the stupid idiot do not realize that if they had worked with you, you might not be discharging that debt. So, they kind of get what they ask for as far as I am concerned. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!

[hayley]

I don't think of smokers as sub-human or whatever.

BUT I do think it's quite the inconsiderate habit sometimes. Like someone mentioned - smoking right outside of a door.

My sister and nephew have really bad asthma - just PASSING THROUGH smoke can and has triggered horrible asthma attacks -that's not fair.

It's not fair that I, as someone who has chosen not to smoke, still has to be subjected to smoke :shrug:
That's the thing. Some people are assholes, and some people are not. Some smokers are inconsiderate assholes, some non-smokers are inconsiderate assholes.

I'm a smoker. But I do not smoke in public places where smoking is prohibited. I do not smoke in restaurants, even if there's a smoking section, because it's gross. I do not smoke near doors/entrances to buildings. I always ask my friends if they mind if I smoke, no matter how many hundreds of times I've smoked around them before. If someone has a problem with the smell of my car, which I smoke in, we don't take it. I smoke on the balcony of my own apartment out of consideration for my roommate, my animals, and any guests. If I'm at a bar or a club where everyone else is smoking, I still ask the people around me if they mind. And if they do? Then I don't do it. I would never smoke around children, or outside a hospital, or any place where it's a nuisance or health hazard to anyone but myself.

I also smoke because I love smoking. Not because of an addiction, or ADHD, or my own selfishness. I like smoking. I love the physical act of doing it, as disgusting as some people may find it. I loooooove taking my smoke breaks at work, because it's calming and the only thing that keeps me going AK-47 postal on everyone in this place.

There isn't a smoker in the world who doesn't know the risks and dangers of smoking. For whatever reason, they choose to do it despite those risks. People aren't stupid, and you can't make them quit something they've made a conscious choice to do.

[SuzeQuze]

LOL - I want a picture of that kiss :laugh:

Credit Card companies will almost always not even bother to work with you until you are on the verge of bankruptcy and the stupid idiot do not realize that if they had worked with you, you might not be discharging that debt. So, they kind of get what they ask for as far as I am concerned. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!

Exactly, stick it to the bastards Brian. Hopefully the new legislation making bankruptcy more difficult will not apply to your situation. I would hope that it does not. This is exactly the situation where it is warranted as you know and as strand said. I'm next in line for the ass kiss shot viewing. :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

That's the thing. Some people are assholes, and some people are not. Some smokers are inconsiderate assholes, some non-smokers are inconsiderate assholes.

I'm a smoker. But I do not smoke in public places where smoking is prohibited. I do not smoke in restaurants, even if there's a smoking section, because it's gross. I do not smoke near doors/entrances to buildings. I always ask my friends if they mind if I smoke, no matter how many hundreds of times I've smoked around them before. If someone has a problem with the smell of my car, which I smoke in, we don't take it. I smoke on the balcony of my own apartment out of consideration for my roommate, my animals, and any guests. If I'm at a bar or a club where everyone else is smoking, I still ask the people around me if they mind. And if they do? Then I don't do it. I would never smoke around children, or outside a hospital, or any place where it's a nuisance or health hazard to anyone but myself.

I also smoke because I love smoking. Not because of an addiction, or ADHD, or my own selfishness. I like smoking. I love the physical act of doing it, as disgusting as some people may find it. I loooooove taking my smoke breaks at work, because it's calming and the only thing that keeps me going AK-47 postal on everyone in this place.

There isn't a smoker in the world who doesn't know the risks and dangers of smoking. For whatever reason, they choose to do it despite those risks. People aren't stupid, and you can't make them quit something they've made a conscious choice to do.

You are extremely courteous Hayley and we non-smokers really appreciate it. :xoxo: That said, I did smoke a few cigarettes on Sat with the family. :o Many in my family smoke. I do think there is a genetic predisposition to addiction that makes some people have an even harder time getting rid of the addiction.

When I smoked regularly I also loved my smoke breaks. I still miss them sometimes because getting away for a moment after stress and having a smoke was the best.

However asthma runs in my family and when I smoked I got bronchitis or an upper respiratory infection every winter. When I don't smoke I don't get any. Plus I couldn't breathe well enough to work out. I was over weight and unhappy. I decided stealing those 10 minute breaks weren't worth it for me. But there were many aspects of smoking that I highly enjoyed especially the social ones.

It is a choice and I do NOT think less of anyone for smoking. It does not make you less of a person or somehow "bad".

One more thought, it is less of a choice than we would like to believe because everyone wants to think they are consciously in control of their minds/bodies. However addiction takes free will hostage which tips the scales toward continuing the habit considerably. Enough in my opinion that the tobacco companies should be sued. Especially by the older smokers who truly believed it was not addictive and harmful because these companies said so. There was a time when people trusted other people to tell the truth, even those in big corporations.

[SuzeQuze]

Well, when I was there awhile back, you could go outside and smoke - maybe they changed that since then. But, it was less than a year ago.
...

Smoking is prohibited in the interior of any hospital building or department, as well as outside all entrances and exits of the hospital and the perimeter of the buildings. Smokers are expected to cross the streets or move away from common areas to smoke. ...

It is dated January 21, 2000 - so it could be old. So, I called them and they said it was okay to smoke outside of the building and away from any entrances. So, they apparently have the same policy I was talking about.

Suze, however and I think, works there. So, she may know of more recent changes.

I tried to reply to this earlier but was booted from the ledge. No I don't work there. Strand, I was going on my memory so you may be correct here since my memory tends to fail me now and again. I used to smoke though and I remember having to put it out well before the entrance. At least I think I remember that. ;)

I can't believe you called them, you're insane. I'm going to go over there, take pictures of the no smoking signs, and then post here. Okay, not really because that is also insane. :lol:

The policy above does state that there is no smoking around the perimeter of the buildings, people have to cross the street. So I guess it isn't non smoking on the entire campus but just outside every building. I guess if you can get 50 feet or so away from the building then you can smoke.

It just seems disrespectful to smoke outside of a hospital though. The doctors and nurses see so many people dying from smoking related illnesses I bet this makes them crazy. Although I'm sure some of them also smoke. Actually a few of my good friends are nurses who smoke.

Okay, I swear I am done with this topic. You've already heard way too much blabbering from me.

[The Tower]

I can't believe you called them, you're insane.
I was going to say this, but I glad you did it for me... :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

I was going to say this, but I glad you did it for me... :laugh:

Something tells me it is not news to him anyway. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I tried to reply to this earlier but was booted from the ledge. No I don't work there. Strand, I was going on my memory so you may be correct here since my memory tends to fail me now and again. I used to smoke though and I remember having to put it out well before the entrance. At least I think I remember that. ;)

I can't believe you called them, you're insane. I'm going to go over there, take pictures of the no smoking signs, and then post here. Okay, not really because that is also insane. :lol:

The policy above does state that there is no smoking around the perimeter of the buildings, people have to cross the street. So I guess it isn't non smoking on the entire campus but just outside every building. I guess if you can get 50 feet or so away from the building then you can smoke.

It just seems disrespectful to smoke outside of a hospital though. The doctors and nurses see so many people dying from smoking related illnesses I bet this makes them crazy. Although I'm sure some of them also smoke. Actually a few of my good friends are nurses who smoke.

Okay, I swear I am done with this topic. You've already heard way too much blabbering from me.


I think I should haul my big a$$ up there, we should get knee walking snot slinging drunk on cheap wine and go on a field trip in a limo. While passing through the porte-cochere, you can blithely query - "Excuse me, please tell the driver where the smoking area is" :eek: :laugh: :wavey: :p :woohoo: :] :]

[strandinthewind]

Something tells me it is not news to him anyway. :laugh:

Its nothing that I didn't know - ;)

Its a long story, but I was there awhile back and was just curious - but let this serve as a warning to all hoodwinkers out there :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

We'll be filing bankruptcy soon because when it came down to brass tacks, Were we supposed to pay our credit card bills and not pay for Deb to survive? Sorry, I had a priority in my life, And that was to see Deb survive, Sorry the credit card companies didnt see it that way.

Make sure you do it before October. That's when the law changes. Check out your attorney thoroughly and make sure you get a good one. Good luck, Brian.

[SuzeQuze]

Its nothing that I didn't know - ;)

Its a long story, but I was there awhile back and was just curious - but let this serve as a warning to all hoodwinkers out there :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

Right, and it takes one to know one (that's me).

Good grief, I'm going to have to start using footnotes. And not the Coultergeist kind!

Regarding the cheap wine and limo thing? As long as it's Two Buck Chuck I am in. :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

. . . Regarding the cheap wine and limo thing? As long as it's Two Buck Chuck I am in. :thumbsup:


Can't you see us - I would get out and in my best Suzanne Sugarbaker - belt - EXCUSE MEEE EXSXXCUUSSSSEEEE MMEEEEEE - PEOPLE - HELLLO I NEED TO SMOKE :laugh: We really may have to do this one day and not just on one unsuspecting place but MANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Johnny Stew]

I am sure this is true, however, a drug like Strattera is much safer. So Stewey is right in that that is an excuse not to quit and not a real reason. She can get treated for the ADHD.She was actually on ADHD medication as a teenager, but went off of it and took up smoking instead. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. And her 3-pack a day habit certainly costs more than medication ever would, since she has a good insurance plan.

I think a lot of people smoke because they are depressed too. The stimulating effects can temporarily pull you out of that. For these people the idea of quitting and facing their moods without their cigarettes (who feel like best friends) is terrifying. Stewey, your friend may be depressed since irritability (Bitchzilla) is a symptom.She does take a anxiety medication actually. But that doesn't seem to have helped her irritability levels. She's a classic high-strung Type-A personality... and that's by her own admission! :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

All this bitching makes me want a cigarette. I'm sick of non-smokers being on their high-horse and making smokers out to be something of a sub-standard culture. We're not completly stupid- we know the risks, we understand the potential consequences, we've heard the warnings, and, ultimatly, it's up to us. I'll be the first to tell you it's one of the stupidest things I've picked up. But, whoever it was that was complaining that the smokers were on the patio of a restaruant, get over it. Non-smokers wanted us out of restaurants, that's ok, and I even agree with it. But it's called give and take. We're not in there, we took it outside. This is all I will contribute to this thread. It's like arguing politics and religion. No one will ever win.
-Now, I'm taking my sub-standard ass outside to smoke.I've never thought of myself as better than people who smoke. Though I will be honest and say that I have questioned the logic of people who take up smoking in this day and age, knowing full well the consequences. There is absolutely no benefit to smoking that outweighs the very serious and deadly risks.

Having said that, my only true qualm with smoking is that I do not like the fact that someone else's little bad habit could give ME cancer. If it was just a matter of cigarettes smelling unpleasant, I'd get over it the way I do when someone douses themselves with cologne.

But since someone blowing their carcinogenic smoke into my face can give me cancer, it becomes my business.
If they do it away from me, then I couldn't care less.

[estranged4life]

Make sure you do it before October. That's when the law changes. Check out your attorney thoroughly and make sure you get a good one. Good luck, Brian.

soon, But have bigger law matters to deal with currently...The ball will now get rolling since we have an appt with an attorney this Friday in regards to the BS we were/are being fed with the medical screwup which MURDERED my Mother...We NOW have the autopsy results, And the ball is now in OUR court and the line will be drawn in the sand on Friday.

[BTFLCHLD]

We'll be filing bankruptcy soon because when it came down to brass tacks, Were we supposed to pay our credit card bills and not pay for Deb to survive? Sorry, I had a priority in my life, And that was to see Deb survive, Sorry the credit card companies didnt see it that way. it's brass tax isnt it? :shrug:

[estranged4life]

it's brass tax isnt it? :shrug:

it's all the same to me...

[Johnny Stew]

That's the thing. Some people are assholes, and some people are not. Some smokers are inconsiderate assholes, some non-smokers are inconsiderate assholes.

I'm a smoker. But I do not smoke in public places where smoking is prohibited. I do not smoke in restaurants, even if there's a smoking section, because it's gross. I do not smoke near doors/entrances to buildings. I always ask my friends if they mind if I smoke, no matter how many hundreds of times I've smoked around them before. If someone has a problem with the smell of my car, which I smoke in, we don't take it. I smoke on the balcony of my own apartment out of consideration for my roommate, my animals, and any guests. If I'm at a bar or a club where everyone else is smoking, I still ask the people around me if they mind. And if they do? Then I don't do it. I would never smoke around children, or outside a hospital, or any place where it's a nuisance or health hazard to anyone but myself.I wish all smokers were like you, Hayley.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the smokers I know or have encountered, couldn't care less about whether or not it bothers anyone... and I imagine that attitude is probably the biggest cause of my vehement disdain for smoking.

I once got ripped a new one by my aunt because I admonished a friend of hers who was feeding her infant a milk bottle WHILE SMOKING. :mad:
In my mind, that's akin to child abuse, and I wasn't the least bit sorry for having opened my mouth about it, and I refused to apologize.

If that made me an asshole, so be it... but I think her child's health was more important than her addiction.

But, again, if all smokers were like you, then I wouldn't butt in (pun intended). :)

[estranged4life]

is do it to yer hearts content, As long as yer not blowing it in my face or bringing it into my home then we'll get along fine...Cause otherwise there will be a problem.

[BTFLCHLD]

it's all the same to me... i was just wondering

ive lived around smokers a good majority of my life. i smoked as a child...yes (i will tell you why if you want to know.) my dad smoked. he didnt die of lung cancer but after two heart attacks and three strokes. no one else in my family smokes. my mom did once (thats part of the other story.) ive had a couple of bfs who smoked and an x-husb who smoked. did i build a tolerance for the 2nd hand? i dont smoke. it is f'ed up that cig companies pour this daily poison and the addiction leaves many helpless, hopeless and eventually dead. i apprec when smokers ask about smoking around me...and my preference is not. state of cali has a law coming in place to ban smoking in prisons (prisoners/gaurds/staff.) imagine!

[estranged4life]

i was just wondering

ive lived around smokers a good majority of my life. i smoked as a child...yes (i will tell you why if you want to know.) my dad smoked. he didnt die of lung cancer but after two heart attacks and three strokes. no one else in my family smokes. my mom did once (thats part of the other story.) ive had a couple of bfs who smoked and an x-husb who smoked. did i build a tolerance for the 2nd hand? i dont smoke. it is f'ed up that cig companies pour this daily poison and the addiction leaves many helpless, hopeless and eventually dead. i apprec when smokers ask about smoking around me...and my preference is not. state of cali has a law coming in place to ban smoking in prisons (prisoners/gaurds/staff.) imagine!

smoked when we first met back in 1991, She quit once we became a couple because I cant stand the smell of it and also because it can affect my chronic bronchitis on occassions.

Glad she did quit because when she was diagnosed with cancer I immediately thought of lung cancer since she admitted to smoking several packs a day before we met...We were lucky that she only had Hodgkin's Lymhoma and it was not attributed to her past smoking.

Do I wish my older brothers & sister would quit? Sure, But do I see that happening? Nope...

[BTFLCHLD]

smoked when we first met back in 1991, She quit once we became a couple because I cant stand the smell of it and also because it can affect my chronic bronchitis on occassions.

Glad she did quit because when she was diagnosed with cancer I immediately thought of lung cancer since she admitted to smoking several packs a day before we met...We were lucky that she only had Hodgkin's Lymhoma and it was not attributed to her past smoking.

Do I wish my older brothers & sister would quit? Sure, But do I see that happening? Nope... you are obviously very important to her...thats cool

[BTFLCHLD]

no diss but there certainly is a lot of coverage of his death.

[BTFLCHLD]

And~
If you smoke~
Please stop


she and peter certainly have us
at least talking about it :angel:

[strandinthewind]

I've never thought of myself as better than people who smoke. Though I will be honest and say that I have questioned the logic of people who take up smoking in this day and age, knowing full well the consequences. There is absolutely no benefit to smoking that outweighs the very serious and deadly risks.

Having said that, my only true qualm with smoking is that I do not like the fact that someone else's little bad habit could give ME cancer. If it was just a matter of cigarettes smelling unpleasant, I'd get over it the way I do when someone douses themselves with cologne.

But since someone blowing their carcinogenic smoke into my face can give me cancer, it becomes my business.
If they do it away from me, then I couldn't care less.

Again, the medical evidence to support that you will get cancer from very limited exposure to cigs is really nonexistent. You would have to be around smoke everyday and pretty much in closed quarters - which you say you are not. So, the logic behind that concern is specious - though I readily admit smokers should be courteous, etc. It reminds of a crazy friend I have that thinks she is going to get cancer everytime she smells cig. smoke no matter if she is 50 feet away :laugh: :rolleyes: We humor her though and make sure her meds are notched up :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

i was just wondering

ive lived around smokers a good majority of my life. i smoked as a child...yes (i will tell you why if you want to know.) my dad smoked. he didnt die of lung cancer but after two heart attacks and three strokes. no one else in my family smokes. my mom did once (thats part of the other story.) ive had a couple of bfs who smoked and an x-husb who smoked. did i build a tolerance for the 2nd hand? i dont smoke. it is f'ed up that cig companies pour this daily poison and the addiction leaves many helpless, hopeless and eventually dead. i apprec when smokers ask about smoking around me...and my preference is not. state of cali has a law coming in place to ban smoking in prisons (prisoners/gaurds/staff.) imagine!

I have always thought smoking should be banned in prison because smoking is a luxury and prisoners do not deserve luxuries - period. Then again, I am for chain gangs :eek:

[catinthedark]

Again, the medical evidence to support that you will get cancer from very limited exposure to cigs is really nonexistent. You would have to be around smoke everyday and pretty much in closed quarters - which you say you are not. So, the logic behind that concern is specious - though I readily admit smokers should be courteous, etc.

Interesting aside: I heard last night that Dana Reeves never smoked. And that one in five women diagnosed with lung cancer never smoked.

There was also a public service announcement that ran in this country (Canada) with a woman who worked for something like 40 years as a waitress in a truck stop. She never smoked a cigarette in her life - but the smoke was blue where she worked. When she was diagnosed with lung cancer, her doctor told her she had the lungs of someone who'd smoked for 40 years.

[strandinthewind]

Interesting aside: I heard last night that Dana Reeves never smoked. And that one in five women diagnosed with lung cancer never smoked.

There was also a public service announcement that ran in this country (Canada) with a woman who worked for something like 40 years as a waitress in a truck stop. She never smoked a cigarette in her life - but the smoke was blue where she worked. When she was diagnosed with lung cancer, her doctor told her she had the lungs of someone who'd smoked for 40 years.

The medical evidence shows that prolonged exposure to excessive second hand smoke in a confined and closed setting, like this poor woman's job apparently was, can lead to lung cancer, even though the chances are still pretty slight.

Also, that this woman worked constantly around diesel fumes and the smoke from the grill in the diner did not help as these also contain cancer causing elements.

Finally, I have always wondered if there is a correlation between lung and breast cancer. It seems that many that I know who have had breast cancer have it later spread into the lungs. I wonder if there have been any studies on that.

[dissention]

I've never thought of myself as better than people who smoke. Though I will be honest and say that I have questioned the logic of people who take up smoking in this day and age, knowing full well the consequences. There is absolutely no benefit to smoking that outweighs the very serious and deadly risks.


Amen. And don't even get me started on the idiots who take up smoking and then have the audacity to sue the tobacco companies. I think we're all in agreement that the tobacco companies are evil mother****ers, but I'm not going to willingly stick my hand in my oven until the skin melts off and then sue the manufacturer. Gimme a break.

[strandinthewind]

Amen. And don't even get me started on the idiots who take up smoking and then have the audacity to sue the tobacco companies. I think we're all in agreement that the tobacco companies are evil mother****ers, but I'm not going to willingly stick my hand in my oven until the skin melts off and then sue the manufacturer. Gimme a break.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think this whole "I am not responsible for my actions" society in which we live is complete and utter BS. I used to be a Plaintiff's Personal Injury lawyer and the utter CRAP I saw was sickening. The sad part is the crap makes the real stuff, like the person made a vegetable by a careless driver, suffer in compensation. To top all of that off, insurance companies are, for the most part, complete a$$holes. Our system sucks, but it would be worse if the govt. took it over, which really is the only option. In the end, millions because McDonald's super hot coffee burned your legs because you were dumb enough to put the cup between them while driving is an outrage.

[dissention]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think this whole "I am not responsible for my actions" society in which we live is complete and utter BS. I used to be a Plaintiff's Personal Injury lawyer and the utter CRAP I saw was sickening. The sad part is the crap makes the real stuff, like the person made a vegetable by a careless driver, suffer in compensation. To top all of that off, insurance companies are, for the most part, complete a$$holes. Our system sucks, but it would be worse if the govt. took it over, which really is the only option. In the end, millions because McDonald's super hot coffee burned your legs because you were dumb enough to put the cup between them while driving is an outrage.

I had a neighbor who sued Burger King because they actually put her coffee in the bag with her food and it ripped open the bag and fell into her lap when they handed it to her. What special kind of ****tard does that? :eek:

She ended up getting almost $50,000.

[strandinthewind]

. . . is absolutely no benefit to smoking that outweighs the very serious and deadly risks . . . .

You are being so judgemental lately :laugh:

I know this will be hard for you to fathom because you hate smoking so much, but there are people who like it and consider it worth the risk.

[strandinthewind]

I had a neighbor who sued Burger King because they actually put her coffee in the bag with her food and it ripped open the bag and fell into her lap when they handed it to her. What special kind of ****tard does that? :eek:

She ended up getting almost $50,000.

That is just silly unless she was burned to the tune of $50,000, which I feel certain she was not.

Again, even though BK may have made a mistake on some level, it is insane to give someone $50,000 for benefiting from that mistake - and it most certainly is benefiting from it in this case.

Put it this way, I would let someone spill hot coffee on me for $50,000 (sexual pleasure aside :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh: ) - who wouldn't :shrug: If the answer is no to $50,000 - then how about the millions that McDonald's Plaintiff won :shrug:

[dissention]

That is just silly unless she was burned to the tune of $50,000, which I feel certain she was not.

Again, even though BK may have made a mistake on some level, it is insane to give someone $50,000 for benefiting from that mistake - and it most certainly is benefiting from it in this case.

Put it this way, I would let someone spill hot coffee on me for $50,000 (sexual pleasure aside :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh: ) - who wouldn't :shrug: If the answer is no to $50,000 - then how about the millions that McDonald's Plaintiff won :shrug:

Well, her poontata was quite badly burned (she was wearing shorts), along with her inner thighs, and she had surgery twice. I'd want more than fifty grand if someone burned my weiner to hell, but that's just me.

[strandinthewind]

Well, her poontata was quite badly burned (she was wearing shorts), along with her inner thighs, and she had surgery twice. I'd want more than fifty grand if someone burned my weiner to hell, but that's just me.

Well, that makes it different. If you are injured then you deserve compensation. In this case, if they paid her medicals outside of the $50,000, then that seems fair.

Finally, your weiner could not be more flaming or hot now :wavey: