Non-Album Survivor Rounds 4-5

[sodascouts]

Sorry for the delay! Was cleaning and lost track of time.

Results for Round 3


On the Wrong Side – 11
Holiday Road – 5
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – 1

With 11 votes, “On the Wrong Side” is the third song eliminated from Non-LP survivor. “On the Wrong Side,” please leave the tribal council area immediately. The rest of you may return to the camp.

Breakdown of Votes (to ensure greater accuracy):
On the Wrong Side – Mari
On the Wrong Side – trackaghost
On the Wrong Side – sodascouts
On the Wrong Side – Patti
On the Wrong Side – wondergirl9847
On the Wrong Side – CreepingDeath
On the Wrong Side – GypsySorcerer
On the Wrong Side – Dreammms
On the Wrong Side – Johnny Stew
On the Wrong Side – face of glass
On the Wrong Side – msLinds
Holiday Road – Dark Angel
Holiday Road – golddustwoman77
Holiday Road – Miss Vicky
Holiday Road – golden braid
Holiday Road – BoBo
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – AliP


----------------


The songs in play:
Holiday Road
Time Bomb Town
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind

Voted off:
Twisted 07/19/05
Dancin’ ’Cross the USA 07/20/05
On the Wrong Side 7/21/05

Immunity:
What soundtrack did Lindsey turn down, which later spawned a hit?

[AliP]

Ghostbusters

Immunity to Holiday Road

[sodascouts]

Ghostbusters

Immunity to Holiday Road

Yes ma'am!

Immunity to HOLIDAY ROAD. Begin Round 4!

[sodascouts]

Time to DIE, Time Bomb Town! No one can save you now!

[face of glass]

A tough choice between the two, though.

[AliP]

YES! jumpy blob is in order :blob2: I finally got one right!!


buh bye Time Bomb Town.

and I can't believe On the Wrong Side is gone. There is no reasonable explanation for such madness. :shocked: :wavey:

[wondergirl9847]

I cannot vote for SGCYM....it's one of his greatest songs. This pains me!!!!!

[Miss Vicky]

There must be about a million single ways to go down... and finally Time Bomb Town is about to be sunk.

[Patti]

That is all.

[golden braid]

Yay! I finally get to vote for this song.

[CreepingDeath]

..........

[GypsySorcerer]

------------------

[Johnny Stew]

Shh... can you hear that ticking?

[Dark Angel]

....................

[Dreammms]

Holiday Road You Gotta Win!

[Mari]

TBT is just better.

[trackaghost]

I just like Time Bomb Town more.

[msLinds]

:wavey:



Its important to remember that nobody falls
into a simple set of labels

[Janet]

Not voting because I love both songs way, way too much!!!!! :(

[ontheEdgeof17]

On The Wrong Side should've won, but such is life.

[sodascouts]

Results for Round 4


Time Bomb Town – 13
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – 4

With 14 votes, “Time Bomb Town” is the fourth song eliminated from Non-LP survivor. “Time Bomb Town,” please leave the tribal council area immediately. The rest of you may return to the camp. Now, there’s only two left, and as you Survivor veterans know, the rules change now. See below.

Breakdown of Votes:
Time Bomb Town – sodascouts
Time Bomb Town – AliP
Time Bomb Town – wondergirl9847
Time Bomb Town – Miss Vicky
Time Bomb Town – Patti
Time Bomb Town – Lux
Time Bomb Town – golden braid
Time Bomb Town – CreepingDeath
Time Bomb Town – GypsySorcerer
Time Bomb Town – Johnny Stew
Time Bomb Town – Dark Angel
Time Bomb Town – Dreammms
Time Bomb Town – msLinds
Time Bomb Town – ontheEdgeof17
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – face of glass
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – ReFleetwoodMac
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Mari
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – trackaghost

----------------


The songs in play:
Holiday Road
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind

Voted off:
Twisted 07/19/05
Dancin’ ’Cross the USA 07/20/05
On the Wrong Side 7/21/05
Time Bomb Town 7/22/05

There is no immunity for the final round. And, instead of voting for the one we want to go, we are now voting for THE ONE WE WANT TO WIN. Let the final round between HOLIDAY ROAD and SOMEONE’S GOTTA CHANGE YOUR MIND begin!

[sodascouts]

Sure, SGCYM is beautiful, but Holiday Road will always have a special place in my heart. There is no better song to blast as you're driving down the highway - it's just FUN. So HOLIDAY ROAD for the win!

[trackaghost]

I agree with Nancy!

[CreepingDeath]

I agree with Lux.

[ontheEdgeof17]

By contract, I have to agree with Kimberly.

[wondergirl9847]

AAARRRRGGG!!! This is waaaaaaayyyyy too difficult! Holiday Road brought me here to this Lindsey-obsession. SGCYM is a brilliant song with strong vocals and shows us that Lindsey is a genius.

I flipped a coin and SGCYM it is. :nod:

[msLinds]

Holiday Road for the Win.

:wavey:


Its important to remember that nobody falls
into a simple set of labels.

[Miss Vicky]

Best.Lindsey.Song.Ever.Period.

[Hawkeye]

Holiday Road is great and I love what it adds to possibly the greatest series of movies ever, but just as a song SGTCYM wins.

[face of glass]

As powerful emotionally as the isolationism of "SGCYM", period.

[Johnny Stew]

"Holiday Road" is absolutely terrific... a bouyant and fun song, from start to finish... but my heart belongs to "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind."
There's just something so beautiful about it, and it has an eerie quality that I can't explain.

The music, the lyrics, the production, Lindsey's voice... everything about it is top-notch. This song is way too damn perfect to be languishing away in near obscurity.

[David]

"Holiday Road" is absolutely terrific... a bouyant and fun song, from start to finish... but my heart belongs to "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind."
There's just something so beautiful about it, and it has an eerie quality that I can't explain.

The music, the lyrics, the production, Lindsey's voice... everything about it is top-notch. This song is way too damn perfect to be languishing away in near obscurity.I don't know why I don't like this one, but there ya have it. It sounds pretentious to me & full of mannerisms. I think it's really bad.

DON'T HIT ME.
:o

[macmar71]

I love Holiday Road!!!
I was never fond of Time Bomb Town so that is the one I am voting off

[Miss Vicky]

I don't know why I don't like this one, but there ya have it. It sounds pretentious to me & full of mannerisms. I think it's really bad.

DON'T HIT ME.
:o


Really bad?????? :shocked: :shocked:

You're lucky this is the internet, buddy. :mad:

Just kidding. I respect your opinion, even though you're wrong. ;)

:xoxo:

[sodascouts]

I love Holiday Road!!!
I was never fond of Time Bomb Town so that is the one I am voting off

Hi Christa,

This is the last round, so you must vote for the one you want to WIN. The two songs you must choose between are Holiday Road and Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind. Put the one you want to win in your subject line and that will be counted as a vote.

[Johnny Stew]

I don't know why I don't like this one, but there ya have it. It sounds pretentious to me & full of mannerisms. I think it's really bad.

DON'T HIT ME.
:oReally? I find it to be one of Lindsey's least pretentious songs.

But no worries, David... I'm a lover, not a fighter. :D

[David]

Hi Christa,

This is the last round, so you must vote for the one you want to WIN. The two songs you must choose between are Holiday Road and Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind. Put the one you want to win in your subject line and that will be counted as a vote.
I can't keep up with the rules in my OWN Survivor game over on ledge #1 let alone the rules here, so please count my Holiday Road vote.

[macmar71]

OOPPPPSS! LOL!! I wrote in the one I thought I was to veto out. Thanks Soda Scouts for bringing this to my attention. It's late and I am medicated but when it comes to LB...I know what I like and Holiday Road Rocks!!!!

[golden braid]

This is such a fun song that I had to pick it for the win.

[AliP]

Hard choice, love em both.

[Mari]

..............

[Moony]

.................yes

[Patti]

For the win!

[Dreammms]

i forget if i voted this round lol

[GypsySorcerer]

Because it makes me happy, though I'd be fine with either one.

[Nico]

I gotta say...this song is just too beautiful for words.

[sodascouts]

I can't keep up with the rules in my OWN Survivor game over on ledge #1 let alone the rules here, so please count my Holiday Road vote.

Your vote is in the subject line; hence, it will be counted.

I admit I was surprised when I saw you were running a Survivor. You are much too laid back to do it properly. Only anal control freak perfectionists can run this game in an orderly fashion! Luckily I meet all those requirements. Rezamatic is more normal and well-adjusted, but I am working on him.

[sodascouts]

Results for FINAL ROUND: THE WINNER IS....

HOLIDAY ROAD!!!

With 12 votes, “Holiday Road” is the winner of Non-Album Survivor!

Breakdown of Votes:
Holiday Road – sodascouts
Holiday Road – trackaghost
Holiday Road – msLinds
Holiday Road – faceofglass
Holiday Road – David
Holiday Road – macmar71
Holiday Road – golden braid
Holiday Road – AliP
Holiday Road – Mari
Holiday Road – Patti
Holiday Road – Dreammms
Holiday Road – GypsySorcerer
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Lux
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – CreepingDeath
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – ontheEdgeof17
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – wondergirl9847
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – ReFleetwoodMac
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Miss Vicky
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Hawkeye
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – JohnnyStew
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Moony
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind – Nico

----------------

Voted off:
Twisted 07/19/05
Dancin’ ’Cross the USA 07/20/05
On the Wrong Side 7/21/05
Time Bomb Town 7/22/05
Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind 7/23/05


Great game! That’s all for now!!

[Johnny Stew]

I'm kind of surprised "Holiday Road" won. Not that it's not a great song, I guess I just assumed the majority of LB fans would go with something a little more substantive and less commercial.

I was also curious as to how "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" would fare against the winners of the album survivors.

[Miss Vicky]

Disgraceful. People simply haven't a clue. Tsk.

Agreed.

I like Holiday Road, but it's pure fluff.

[sodascouts]

I'm kind of surprised "Holiday Road" won. Not that it's not a great song, I guess I just assumed the majority of LB fans would go with something a little more substantive and less commercial.


Now, that sounds a bit like a chastisement, but I know it can't be, because it was written by a man who has argued quite often on the fallacy of dismissing a song as lesser quality simply because it is commercially viable.

Lindsey manages to make a song both quirky and appealing to the mainstream, not an easy feat, and one for which he should be lauded. The fact that he can make a song with so few words speak to people is again a testament to his talent.

Finally, perhaps all Lindsey fans do not fall into the predictable stereotype that you seem to have bought into.

[Miss Vicky]

Finally, perhaps all Lindsey fans do not fall into the predictable stereotype that you seem to have bought into.


On the other hand, maybe the results would've been different if so many Ledgies weren't on vacation.

I fail to find anything that "speaks" to me in "Holiday Road." Maybe I'm just missing something. :shrug:

It's fun, but it's fluff.

[wondergirl9847]

Do all songs have to speak to you folks? Do all songs have to have a message? LOL

YAY for Holiday Road!! All of these songs are awesome. :nod:

[Miss Vicky]

Do all songs have to speak to you folks? Do all songs have to have a message? LOL

YAY for Holiday Road!! All of these songs are awesome. :nod:

Nancy said that LB managed to write a song that spoke to people even though it has very few actual lyrics. However, I seriously doubt that it actually "speaks" to many people in the manner she seemed to be suggesting. That's all I was saying.

As for myself... does a song need to have a message for me to like it? No.
Does it need one in order to be my favorite? Absolutely.

[Johnny Stew]

Now, that sounds a bit like a chastisement, but I know it can't be, because it was written by a man who has argued quite often on the fallacy of dismissing a song as lesser quality simply because it is commercially viable.

Lindsey manages to make a song both quirky and appealing to the mainstream, not an easy feat, and one for which he should be lauded.I definitely think it's a grave mistake to dismiss a song for being commercial... though I don't think that's what I was doing here. I just think that "SGCYM" has qualities I would expect LB fans would appreciate more, as he seems to be offering a rare glimpse into his more gentle, vulnerable side. And, while doing that, retains the typical "Buckingham stamp," with the quirky production on the layered "I know (I know), I know (I know)" lines of the chorus.

As much as I love "Holiday Road," it can't help but seem like a mere trifle in comparison. :shrug:

Finally, perhaps all Lindsey fans do not fall into the predictable stereotype that you seem to have bought into.Of course they do! We're all a bunch of raging stereotypes around here, don't ya know that?

Now, I shall go twirl! ;) :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

As for myself... does a song need to have a message for me to like it? No.
Does it need one in order to be my favorite? Absolutely.What she said. :nod: :)

[face of glass]

I'm late with this pretentious response, since I was on a "holiday road". (Excuse the lame pun.)
I just think that "SGCYM" has qualities I would expect LB fans would appreciate more, as he seems to be offering a rare glimpse into his more gentle, vulnerable side.
For me "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" is a piece that is in the singer-songwriter territory, in a similar way to something like "Save Me A Place" or "Street Of Dreams" (both songs I know you dislike, albeit "Street Of Dreams" and "SGCYM" both are far more convincing atmospherically than "SMAP"). It is not a typical mode for Lindsey Buckingham, it is a mode you'd expect from someone like Bob Dylan, John Lennon, or hell, even Stevie Nicks. It is a mode where the appeal is usually to be found in the intimacy of the piece, the warmth of the vocal, the introspective lyrics and such. And it is something Lindsey Buckingham has gotten himself into only a few times during his career. So no matter how much I love "SGCYM", it won't ever find its way into my biggest favourites. Lindsey Buckingham didn't come here to bare his soul in the manners that singer-songwriters do (even though he might have done it a few times), he came here to dazzle us with his instrumental colours, to emotionally show all the various sides of his personality, his heartbreak, his spiritual uplift, his happiness, his hyperactive nuttiness, his violent and depression, through his music. "SGCYM" does show us his vulnerable side, but as I said, it is shown only in the more traditional manner of the singer-songwriters. I believe his vulnerability is present in almost anything he does, but not in the same way as in "SGCYM".
I fail to find anything that "speaks" to me in "Holiday Road."
To me "Holiday Road" is a deeply resonating artistic masterpiece, but then I am a person who believes that all emotions are equal to each other, and that no emotion is deeper than the other. Thus the have-fun attitude that one should immediately find in "Holiday Road" is no less deeper than the introspectiveness of "SGCYM", the male depression of "Street Of Dreams" or the violent imagery of something like "Play In The Rain" or "Murrow".

What is the message of "Holiday Road"? To me it goes as follows: "forget all your troubles, let your hair down, go out and have some fun". It's a deep universal message that anyone can identify with. But then the world we live in has made things seem so that such a message is seen as superficial and empty, whereas songs that deal with sadness, depression, longing, yearning and such, are seen as "heavy and important". To me that's a false assumption. Just because it is more difficult and less acceptable to talk about the latter than the former it is assumed that it's therefore "heavier and more important"? Bah.
As for myself... does a song need to have a message for me to like it? No.
Does it need one in order to be my favorite? Absolutely.
Another thing that I personally don't approve of here is the suggestion that the only way you can find a particular message in a particular song is to look at the lyrics. But then it isn't surprising, considering that there are people on this board who consider the lyrics the "meat" of a particular song, and that the music is only "gravy". Therefore it is easy to assume that a wordier piece is deeper and that something with minimal lyrics is therefore less deep. To me the message of a particular song, no matter what it is, is conveyed through music as well, the way the whole thing is arranged and performed, the way the atmosphere of the piece is created. Lyrics are only a part of creating that overall impression. So when I speak of the message of "Holiday Road" I take into account the entire piece and choose not to just stare at the lyrics written on a piece of paper in front of me. "Holiday Road" may boast less sophisticated production than most of Lindsey's other work, but that underproduction only serves to emphasize the message of the track.

Since I believe that Lindsey Buckingham's career as a whole is a collection of diverse emotions, I also believe that "Holiday Road" plays an important part in that whole, it presents another important side of him to his listeners and serves as the necessary piece of unpretentiousness just before the release of his most pretentious album. And in the collection of diverse emotions that his career as a whole is, it is no less worthy than any other part of it.

[Mari]

What he said! :lol:

[shackin'up]

Follow the leader.

[shackin'up]

What is the message of "Holiday Road"? To me it goes as follows: "forget all your troubles, let your hair down, go out and have some fun". It's a deep universal message that anyone can identify with. But then the world we live in has made things seem so that such a message is seen as superficial and empty, whereas songs that deal with sadness, depression, longing, yearning and such, are seen as "heavy and important". To me that's a false assumption. Just because it is more difficult and less acceptable to talk about the latter than the former it is assumed that it's therefore "heavier and more important"? Bah.

Another thing that I personally don't approve of here is the suggestion that the only way you can find a particular message in a particular song is to look at the lyrics. But then it isn't surprising, considering that there are people on this board who consider the lyrics the "meat" of a particular song, and that the music is only "gravy". Therefore it is easy to assume that a wordier piece is deeper and that something with minimal lyrics is therefore less deep. To me the message of a particular song, no matter what it is, is conveyed through music as well, the way the whole thing is arranged and performed, the way the atmosphere of the piece is created. Lyrics are only a part of creating that overall impression.

Agreeing totally, I don't think "holiday road" is the best example of it, but that's a matter of taste. You just gave words to my love for Given Thing, IKINW, NTF,The Ledge and That's Enough For Me, Hell, even Turn It On.
Thank you VERY much.

still the same selfindulgent buttheadiness, huh Gaius? Ramble on Fin, you make me smile and you deserve the presidency 100% with these posts.

[ReFleetwoodMac]

Lindsey Buckingham didn't come here to bare his soul in the manners that singer-songwriters do (even though he might have done it a few times), he came here to dazzle us with his instrumental colours, to emotionally show all the various sides of his personality, his heartbreak, his spiritual uplift, his happiness, his hyperactive nuttiness, his violent and depression, through his music.
So he wasn't put here to bare his soul, but he was put here to bare his emotions and thoughts and personality? I advise you to look up the definition of "soul". But if you just meant baring his soul in this one specific way, then I say why on earth would you limit him to only doing these specific things? He's not allowed to do things he's not expected to do? Isn't breaking the rules and embracing the unknown and unexplored sort what he's all about? He can bare his soul in whatever way he pleases.

[face of glass]

Isn't breaking the rules and embracing the unknown and unexplored sort what he's all about? He can bare his soul in whatever way he pleases.
Of course he can, I was just stating that his rarely-used singer-songwriter mode wasn't the one I fell in love with (except for "Street Of Dreams", but it reminds me of prime Closer-era Joy Division which I'm biased towards), it was his role as a pop eccentric that did it for me.

[Mari]

Agreeing totally, I don't think "holiday road" is the best example of it, but that's a matter of taste. You just gave words to my love for Given Thing, IKINW, NTF,The Ledge and That's Enough For Me, Hell, even Turn It On.
Thank you VERY much.

still the same selfindulgent buttheadiness, huh Gaius? Ramble on Fin, you make me smile and you deserve the presidency 100% with these posts.

Yep.. he's back! :)

[trackaghost]

I'm late with this pretentious response, since I was on a "holiday road". (Excuse the lame pun.)

For me "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" is a piece that is in the singer-songwriter territory, in a similar way to something like "Save Me A Place" or "Street Of Dreams" (both songs I know you dislike, albeit "Street Of Dreams" and "SGCYM" both are far more convincing atmospherically than "SMAP"). It is not a typical mode for Lindsey Buckingham, it is a mode you'd expect from someone like Bob Dylan, John Lennon, or hell, even Stevie Nicks. It is a mode where the appeal is usually to be found in the intimacy of the piece, the warmth of the vocal, the introspective lyrics and such. And it is something Lindsey Buckingham has gotten himself into only a few times during his career. So no matter how much I love "SGCYM", it won't ever find its way into my biggest favourites. Lindsey Buckingham didn't come here to bare his soul in the manners that singer-songwriters do (even though he might have done it a few times), he came here to dazzle us with his instrumental colours, to emotionally show all the various sides of his personality, his heartbreak, his spiritual uplift, his happiness, his hyperactive nuttiness, his violent and depression, through his music. "SGCYM" does show us his vulnerable side, but as I said, it is shown only in the more traditional manner of the singer-songwriters. I believe his vulnerability is present in almost anything he does, but not in the same way as in "SGCYM".



I prefer Holiday Road to SGCYM too, but to say Lindsey "didn't come here to bare his soul in the manners that singer-songwriters do" seems to limit him as an artist in my opinion. Why can't he do both? There's as much artistry in one as there is the other. I don't think musically something like Never Going Back Again (a simple acoustic number) is any less important than something like Play In The Rain. And I disagree with the notion that true Lindsey fans will appreciate his experimental work over his pop tracks too. Isn't it his diversity we all love and cherish?

In defense of Miss Vicky I would also say that, if we are purely speaking musically and not lyrically here, it's hard to find a deeper emotional resonance in the bontempi-minimalism of Holiday Road. The fake handclaps, barking dogs, the simple but slightly corny synth bass (which sounds like something that's comes programmed into one of those cheap kids' keyboards), it's all very lightweight.
That's not to say it's not fun, and as you say, having fun is as important as any emotion, but I still don't think it's one of Lindsey's most spectacular moments on a purely musical level. That said it's the overall effect I love. Y'know it's damn catchy and makes you feel good!

As for the lyrics, I guess this song was written primarily for a movie (National Lampoon's Vacation) and they reflect this. Unless of course he means it's a long hard road to get to easy street, to success that is.

[Mari]

I've been thinking, why do I like Holiday Road better than SGCYM, but this quote from Billy Corgan captivates it exactly: (ha, another excuse to bring up New Order ;) )

"What did he learn from New Order? Two things, he says. "One is that true power is rhythmic, it's not volume. And the rhythmic relationship is internal — that's something that all the early blues guys like Robert Johnson understood. And secondarily, where I'd always figured New Order were really pretentious and drew their whole sound out as some Bauhaus concept, no — they are energy whores. You show them where the energy goes, they will follow it. When I played with'em, they hadn't played Joy Division songs in 22 years, and I said, 'Why did you choose to play these songs again?' And they said, 'We just felt like it.' They didn't intellectualize the decision; they were just chasing down the rabbit hole." "

Holiday Road does have that Energy, I think. Some of the songs I love the most are so deceptively simple and straightforward but they have THAT energy and I feel it in my tummy. I don't care if the lyrics have no meaning then. Yes, good lyrics can give an extra dimension to music, but music it is in the first place, and that is what I care about.

And, edit, that's when Lindsey is on his best. As an Energy Whore.

[Miss Vicky]

First of all, I don't deny that a message and emotions can be transmitted through music. I've never denied that. However, I am not a musician. I am a writer and as much as I respect, enjoy, and admire the way in which a musician can evoke images and emotions simply in the way that he or she plays an instrument, the lyrics that accompany that music will always have a higher place in my heart. However, even without the lyrics, "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" is, in my opinion, a superior song to "Holiday Road," although I love both songs.
And, for the record, although Lindsey Buckingham is a guitarist at heart, he has shown us the singer/songwriter side of him on more than just a few occasions. In fact, he seems to show this side on at least one song from every album he's released, both solo and with the band. The first and probably one of the best of which was Buckingham Nicks' "Without A Leg to Stand On."

[Mari]

If lyrics are more important to you than the music, then what's the difference with poetry? Why don't you just pick up a lyric sheet and read that instead of listening to the record? Just curious.

And to my taste, Without A Leg To Stand On is one of LB's weaker songs. It's personal taste, and that goes for everything we discuss here, sure.
Musically it doesn't have enough of his distinctive sound, yet, I miss that. Some other singer/songwriter could've recorded it and you wouldn't be able to tell that it was written by him.

It's just funny to see how completely opposite we are in our ideas about his music and what we like about it, I think.

[ReFleetwoodMac]

If lyrics are more important to you than the music, then what's the difference with poetry? Why don't you just pick up a lyric sheet and read that instead of listening to the record? Just curious.
She didn't say lyrics are only reason she listens the song, just that they are more important to her. And I quote - "even without the lyrics, 'Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind' is, in my opinion, a superior song to 'Holiday Road.'" So she does have the ability to judge music too.

[Mari]

Yes, and I wanted to know how MUCH more important lyrics are to her then, just using an example.
I find it a bit weird to first say you care more about lyrics and know more about it, and then continue to say you find one song musically better than the other.

[Miss Vicky]

She didn't say lyrics are only reason she listens the song, just that they are more important to her. And I quote - "even without the lyrics, 'Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind' is, in my opinion, a superior song to 'Holiday Road.'" So she does have the ability to judge music too.

Thank you for that.

And you were quite coherent. :thumbsup:

Yes, the lyrics are more important to me than the music, but the music still holds importance, just not as much. And in my opinion, Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind is superior to Holiday Road on both a lyrical and musical level.

[Mari]

Well, you haven't got me convinced. Holiday Road's still the better song :D

[Miss Vicky]

Well, you haven't got me convinced. Holiday Road's still the better song :D

I wasn't trying to convince you, just merely restating my own opinion.
And Holiday Road is good... it's catchy, entertaining, fun, fluff.

[sodascouts]

And I disagree with the notion that true Lindsey fans will appreciate his experimental work over his pop tracks too. Isn't it his diversity we all love and cherish?

Very true.

As for the lyrics, I guess this song was written primarily for a movie (National Lampoon's Vacation) and they reflect this. Unless of course he means it's a long hard road to get to easy street, to success that is.

I think the lyrics can very easily be applied to Fleetwood Mac - their success was a "Holiday Road" but he paid a price for it. I think the "long way down" is actually after the "holiday road" is reached - not a long way TO, but DOWN. He's expressing disillusionment, IMHO, but in such a fun, catchy way you don't notice.

See, Victoria, I can find deep meaning. ;)

[Miss Vicky]

I think the lyrics can very easily be applied to Fleetwood Mac - their success was a "Holiday Road" but he paid a price for it. I think the "long way down" is actually after the "holiday road" is reached - not a long way TO, but DOWN. He's expressing disillusionment, IMHO, but in such a fun, catchy way you don't notice.

See, Victoria, I can find deep meaning. ;)

Nice interpretation, but I still think it's fluff. :p :laugh:

[face of glass]

I prefer Holiday Road to SGCYM too, but to say Lindsey "didn't come here to bare his soul in the manners that singer-songwriters do" seems to limit him as an artist in my opinion. Why can't he do both?
He can do both, but personally I see it as a wrong approach if one solely concentrates on his singer-songwriter side (=that he is judged in the same way as Lennon, Dylan, Hammill, Reed or Nicks). To me that side is just another side that I cram under the multi-coloured umbrella that is "pop eccentricity".
And I disagree with the notion that true Lindsey fans will appreciate his experimental work over his pop tracks too. Isn't it his diversity we all love and cherish?
I'd like to know where in my post I displayed such a notion. After all, I, too, am a person who appreciates his diversity with all my heart, moments like "You And I Part Two" or "It Was I" (representative of charming naivety) are no less dear to me than "D. W. Suite" or "Play In The Rain" (representative of Lindsey finally escaping the traditional song structure for a while, and acting like the Grande Artist).
In defense of Miss Vicky I would also say that, if we are purely speaking musically and not lyrically here, it's hard to find a deeper emotional resonance in the bontempi-minimalism of Holiday Road. The fake handclaps, barking dogs, the simple but slightly corny synth bass (which sounds like something that's comes programmed into one of those cheap kids' keyboards), it's all very lightweight.
Opinion appreciated, and I know I can't change anyone's mind with this obsessive ranting.

"Holiday Road" makes me feel giddy all over, it makes me want to go out and roll on a lawn, and laugh like a nutcase. Personally I find it a hard-hitting musical piece that is far from lightweight, but since you insist on it being such, let us play with that thought for a while.

To me it is difficult to do something lightweight that is impressive and resonant. I'm speaking of something like "I'm A Believer" or "Baby One More Time", songs that time will prove as timeless pop classics. I'd go as far as to call them perfect pop songs. Both of these are a collection of cliches, but they're a collection of cliches that work, unlike many other attempts at writing a well-crafted chart hit (but then that's another matter of personal opinion).
Writers like Nick Hornby have argued from time and time again that there is incredible depth in banality, that it takes actual skill to make a moment of pure pop magic from cliched ingredients, and I agree with that.
People seem to assume that "Holiday Road" is a pure throwaway, something that Lindsey quickly threw together and gave away for a soundtrack of some movie. For me it is a perfect pop song, a collection of cliches that should not work when collected together but they somehow do work and create this magical state. It is difficult to make such cliches work, but somehow the song just manages to do that. And therefore I do not see it as any less worthy than anything else Lindsey has ever done. Doing something impressive and lightweight is difficult, just as difficult as baring your soul in an impressive manner. And that's why I can't see "Holiday Road" as a throwaway.

[face of glass]

And, for the record, although Lindsey Buckingham is a guitarist at heart, he has shown us the singer/songwriter side of him on more than just a few occasions. In fact, he seems to show this side on at least one song from every album he's released, both solo and with the band. The first and probably one of the best of which was Buckingham Nicks' "Without A Leg to Stand On."
When I referred to Lindsey Buckingham's singer-songwriter side, I was mainly thinking of albums like Plastic Ono Band and Blood On The Tracks, both albums that are considered the cream of the genre (and isn't POB considered to be one of those albums that initiated the whole wave of singer-songwriters? Not to mention Dylan's influence on the genre as a whole.) Both are very intimate albums where the singer's voices are close to the listener during the fragile moments. To me the only pieces in Lindsey's catalogue that remind me of such moments are "Save Me A Place", "Street Of Dreams" and "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind". Although yes, something like "What Makes You Think You're The One" isn't far off from the harrowing screams of "Well Well Well" (but then I don't think either is necessarily a singer-songwriter piece anyway).

I'm also interested in which you think are Lindsey's singer-songwriter pieces on Law And Order and Go Insane, or Mirage and Tango In The Night for that matter. From OOTC onwards I can understand your statement, due to the increasing introspectiveness in his lyrics, but as for the earlier work I'm having difficulties with it. Personally I could call "Without A Leg To Stand On" a piece of Californian pop-rock, I do not see what makes it particularly singer-songwriterish.

[Miss Vicky]

I'm also interested in which you think are Lindsey's singer-songwriter pieces on Law And Order and Go Insane, or Mirage and Tango In The Night for that matter. From OOTC onwards I can understand your statement, due to the increasing introspectiveness in his lyrics, but as for the earlier work I'm having difficulties with it. Personally I could call "Without A Leg To Stand On" a piece of Californian pop-rock, I do not see what makes it particularly singer-songwriterish.

Singer songwriter probably wasn't the best choice of words. Okay, it was a bad choice of words. What I meant is that Lindsey has shown us the introspective and contemplative side of his lyrical talents since the beginning with "Without a Leg to Stand On."
On Law and Order he showed us this same side with "Shadow of the West" and on Go Insane with "D.W. Suite." And yes, he has brought this side of him much more to the forefront with his more recent offerings. Does that clarify?

Edit:
For Mirage, I'll give you that one. I pretty much try to forget that album even exists.
As for Tango, the title track.

[trackaghost]

I'd like to know where in my post I displayed such a notion. After all, I, too, am a person who appreciates his diversity with all my heart, moments like "You And I Part Two" or "It Was I" (representative of charming naivety) are no less dear to me than "D. W. Suite" or "Play In The Rain" (representative of Lindsey finally escaping the traditional song structure for a while, and acting like the Grande Artist).


Sorry I was referring to someone else's post when I wrote that, not you. :o (Was it Johnny Stew?)
I should have said.




People seem to assume that "Holiday Road" is a pure throwaway, something that Lindsey quickly threw together and gave away for a soundtrack of some movie. For me it is a perfect pop song, a collection of cliches that should not work when collected together but they somehow do work and create this magical state. It is difficult to make such cliches work, but somehow the song just manages to do that. And therefore I do not see it as any less worthy than anything else Lindsey has ever done. Doing something impressive and lightweight is difficult, just as difficult as baring your soul in an impressive manner. And that's why I can't see "Holiday Road" as a throwaway.

I don't think it's throwaway, I love it! But I think its power is in the fact that it's simple and not particularly deep.
I mean the Beatles, "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah" - classic!

Someone once asked Paul Simon what he thought the greatest lyrics in a pop song were and he replied: "Be bop a-lula, she's my baby", and he's right, sometimes those simple things are the most memorable and effective.

[Nico]

I think Holiday Road is an awesome song! I love it and it's repetitiveness. I think its fun. I'm known to love many fun songs. I enjoy Obla-Di Obla-Da and I admit to owning (and playing rather frequently) the original "Willy Wonka" soundtrack.

I think SGTCYM is a better song for me because it moves me more. The words and the emotion he puts into it, plus the music are SO beautiful. That's just my definition of what makes a song better, but there is nothing wrong with digging a nice, sweet, bouncy song like HR and if you like that kind of stuff, and prefer it, then it is better to you.

Anyway, I pretty much love everything Lindsey does, to varying degrees. He's really a genius and I feel so lucky to be so acquainted with all this brilliant music. :nod:

[David]

And in my opinion, Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind is superior to Holiday Road on both a lyrical and musical level.Not mine, baby. Holiday Road is a whipcrack Tex-Mex fuzz-buzz motorbikin' overdriver with a chorus that is catchy & gear-fab frenetic.

The whole damn country was humming that chorus after seeing "Vacation." You'd never see anything similar with "Someone's Gotta Change," which sounds like a cross between Yoko Ono & James Taylor on a bender.

[Nico]

You'd never see anything similar with "Someone's Gotta Change," which sounds like a cross between Yoko Ono & James Taylor on a bender.

Oh that's wicked. :lol:

[Miss Vicky]

Not mine, baby. Holiday Road is a whipcrack Tex-Mex fuzz-buzz motorbikin' overdriver with a chorus that is catchy & gear-fab frenetic.

The whole damn country was humming that chorus after seeing "Vacation." You'd never see anything similar with "Someone's Gotta Change," which sounds like a cross between Yoko Ono & James Taylor on a bender.

That's nice, baby, but I was a whole two years old when that movie came out so what it did then means nothing to me now. :shrug:

[shackin'up]

You'd never see anything similar with "Someone's Gotta Change," which sounds like a cross between Yoko Ono & James Taylor on a bender.

I'd choose that anytime above the image of 150 million fat americans humming a flat repeater when they walk out of the movies with popcorn in the corner of their mouth. Hell, I even hum achy breaky heart for 3 days everytime I incidentally hear a snippet of it. And now are you going to defend THAT as a superior song too? Brrrrr. American culture. ;)

[face of glass]

I don't think it's throwaway, I love it!
Hmm, ok. I've just seen people generally assume that of songs that are just out there to "have fun". :)

[face of glass]

On Law and Order he showed us this same side with "Shadow of the West" and on Go Insane with "D.W. Suite." And yes, he has brought this side of him much more to the forefront with his more recent offerings. Does that clarify?

Edit:
For Mirage, I'll give you that one. I pretty much try to forget that album even exists.
As for Tango, the title track.
In terms of lyrics I can understand that, but I tend to think of these songs in terms of general atmosphere and those deviate from the usual singer-songwriter one. Maybe "Shadow Of The West" is closer to that, but the Beach Boys tribute of "D.W. Suite" and the nutcracker-like "Tango In The Night" are very far away from that, IMO.
But bleh, we love it all and that's what matters. :D

[Miss Vicky]

In terms of lyrics I can understand that, but I tend to think of these songs in terms of general atmosphere and those deviate from the usual singer-songwriter one. Maybe "Shadow Of The West" is closer to that, but the Beach Boys tribute of "D.W. Suite" and the nutcracker-like "Tango In The Night" are very far away from that, IMO.
But bleh, we love it all and that's what matters. :D

I was speaking strictly in terms of lyrics. :)

But yes, we love it all... well I love it all except "Oh Diane" - probably the only Buckingham song that I can't stand - and that is what matters.

[David]

For Mirage, I'll give you that one. I pretty much try to forget that album even exists.Why? That represents some of the best engineering Lindsey's ever done. I also give props to the arrangements.

[Miss Vicky]

Why? That represents some of the best engineering Lindsey's ever done. I also give props to the arrangements.

Because the whole album is fluff. It was the band regressing. In terms of pop accessibility it was the Rumours II that people had wanted Tusk to be. Just look at "Oh Diane" and that rip-off "Book of Love." I like "Eyes of the World," "Empire State," and "Can't Go Back," but this is probably the only album where I like some Christine and Stevie's contributions ("Gypsy," "Hold Me," "Wish You Were Here") more than Buckingham's. But as a whole, the album stinks. Just my opinion.

[ReFleetwoodMac]

Because the whole album is fluff.
You have quite the fondness for that word, don't you?

You're saying that Empire state and Book of Love, and even Can't Go Back are typical pop songs?

[shackin'up]

You have quite the fondness for that word, don't you?

You're saying that Empire state and Book of Love, and even Can't Go Back are typical pop songs?

add Eyes of the world too.

That album is 10 times more daring than Tango.

[Miss Vicky]

You have quite the fondness for that word, don't you?

You're saying that Empire state and Book of Love, and even Can't Go Back are typical pop songs?

Actually, I'm not that fond of the word, but it's far less offensive than what I'd like to call the album.

Book of Love is nothing but a huge rip off of an older song by the same name (the artist escapes me at the moment) while claiming to be a Buckingham original.

As for the rest of them, yes, in terms of the overall sound I think it's typical pop. That's just my opinion. And you people can argue with me about it until the end of the world but it'll still be my opinion. :shrug:

[face of glass]

Book of Love is nothing but a huge rip off of an older song by the same name (the artist escapes me at the moment) while claiming to be a Buckingham original.
Hope it doesn't seem that I'm too obsessed with this. ;)

Quoting an older post (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=175673&postcount=13) of mine:
Finally, "Book Of Love". This song seems to encapsulate nearly everything about Lindsey's work from 1981 to 1983. You have your usual '50s I-IV-V chord structure but the delivery is really angry and yet in the chorus he is laughing at himself for some weird reason. Why on earth is that? The usual answer that I have to this is that it's Lindsey doing the sonic painting thing again. He has two very different emotions there put together, both in '50s doo-wop ballad for chrissake! And yet it still doesn't confuse me. It feels very natural, in fact.
But then again I don't find Mirage a huge letdown or a lackluster effort in Lindsey's part (I think I went into more detail on that in the post that I linked to).

Personally I don't mind that "Book Of Love" is a '50s rip-off (the name of the particular artist and the song escapes me too, but I bet this isn't the only rip-off we've heard of that song). I never fell in love with Buckingham or Nicks solely because of their songwriting anyway, I find them rather ordinary songwriters in the end. What matters to me the most has always been their delivery of a particular song, and the way the song has been arranged. They can communicate a particular topic with such emotion and power that whatever cliches or ordinariness they use takes on a new life.
When it comes to "Book Of Love", Lindsey has inserted such an amount of anger and production details into it (not to mention that precious laughter) that it doesn't feel like a rip-off to me, its atmosphere is, after all, very different from your average '50s ballads. And that's what makes me think of it as another great moment in his career.

Not that this will change anyone's mind, though. :)

[mylittledemon]

Because the whole album is fluff. It was the band regressing. In terms of pop accessibility it was the Rumours II that people had wanted Tusk to be. Just look at "Oh Diane" and that rip-off "Book of Love." I like "Eyes of the World," "Empire State," and "Can't Go Back," but this is probably the only album where I like some Christine and Stevie's contributions ("Gypsy," "Hold Me," "Wish You Were Here") more than Buckingham's. But as a whole, the album stinks. Just my opinion.

I think Mirage is very UNDERRATED myself. It is what it is...I don't think it was in any way "Rumours II." And if Tusk HAD been what everyones 'wanted' it to be, then they wouldn't have made Mirage

[ReFleetwoodMac]

I've always thought of Lindsey's Mirage songs as equally as quirky as his Tusk songs, just more polished. His Tusk stuff was so uncomfortably raw that there's no way anyone will call them typical pop songs. But his Mirage stuff is pretty much the same, just nowhere near as raw. But I still don't think any of them sound like anything else I've heard outside of Lindsey.

Casual fans I think have the same opinion about Mirage as Tusk. How many would be interested at all in Lindsey's Tusk or Mirage stuff? Probably not many. How many would like Sara or Think About Me? Gypsy or Hold Me? Plenty.

[trackaghost]

I agree they're just as quirky as his Tusk stuff. The only difference is they are more 50s influenced than punk. A lot more safe as well.
I really like Mirage. I never understand why it gets such a raw deal.