what era is this pic from? [Archive]

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 10:59 AM

Here is the text of the interview - courtesy of www.nicksfix.com --

Details
August 1994
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevie Nicks
Would you stay if she promised you heaven
by Lance Loud
Details: Do you think Fleetwood Mac will reunite?

Stevie Nicks: Maybe. But not with me or Christine or Lindsey. Christine and I will always be close; Lindsey just plain doesn't like me. I never had any musical training of any kind. I just had this innate ability to walk in, sit down at a piano, write a song in five minutes, and go to bed. It drives him nuts.

Details: Did you keep a diary of your Mac life?

Stevie Nicks: Yeah, and if the book were to come out, a lot of people would cease to think of me as this eccentric, flaky girl. My journals tell the real story of what went on, like the way things changed after Bella Donna came out. No one in the band ever said a word to me about my solo career. They were keeping quiet for their own best interests. They knew if they ripped Bella Donna apart, I wouldn't give them any more songs. Remember, "Dreams"--which is just me--is the only gold single that Fleetwood Mac ever had.

Details: Now that you're forty-six, how are you dealing with your sex symbol status?

Stevie Nicks: I have no illusions. When I'm sixty years old I'll still be writing songs and singing them. But will someone in the audience say, "Gee, what a sexy older lady-babe she is"? I doubt it. I mean, get a life, you know? If physical beauty is the only reason people buy my records, then I don't know why I'm doing this. One of our managers once yelled at me: "If you don't lose twenty pounds, your career is over." I told him I didn't need him in my life anymore. I would prove my career wasn't over. (laughs) Then ... I lost the twenty pounds!

Details: Any advice for Madonna?

Stevie Nicks: The sexual thing is pretty exhausted. Maybe a thesis on religion?

Details: Street Angel is the title of your new album. What's the difference between a street angel and a more celestial one?

Stevie Nicks: Well, your heavenly origined angel is more like a princess. A street angel is not just a high-powered witch princess-- she can also go out and blend in with people. I've always felt that that’s the way I am: I can jump into the audience or go home with them. Then if I'm bored, I'm outta here.

Details: Who is on your CD player right now?

Stevie Nicks: Mary-Chapin Carpenter. She's brilliant. And Elvis Costello. I put "Green Shirt" on every tape I make to go out on the road.

Details: Elvis once said his songwriting motivations were revenge and guilt. What are yours?

Stevie Nicks: I write about the gypsies of the world. People who, like me, are on the road all the time. People whose roots are blown away.

Details: People used to make fun of your platforms.

Stevie Nicks: And now they’re totally in style, thank you very much. If you don't see me in platform boots, you'll probably see me in my platform Reeboks. I wear them every day.

Details: Let's play "Rumours." Surely you've heard the outlandish one about how you had a roadie blow cocaine into, well, a certain orifice after your nose became unable to snort it...

(Dead silence)

Details: Rumors like that must have been really uncomfortable to live with ...

Stevie Nicks: Yeah, they were. Eight years sober and the stories still get passed around.

Details: Rumor number two--still going around--is that you are still getting high.

Stevie Nicks: Untrue. I haven't done cocaine for eight years. Unfortunately, it's just the way I have to live. Do I miss it? Yeah, I miss it. Would I ever do it again? No. The doctors told me that I'd have a brain hemorrhage if I drank or did drugs.

Details: Rumor number three: In her act, Sandra Bernhard envisions a chiffon scarf fantasy with you. Is the feeling mutual?

Stevie Nicks: Sandra's a comedian--she’s gonna make up stuff like that. But truthfully--no, I'm not bisexual. I like men too much.

Details: What kind of men do you like?

Stevie Nicks: Smart, clever, fun--with a soul. I hate guys with too much machismo. As soon as a guy tells me what we're going to do tonight, I tell him what we're not going to do. (laughs) Actually it would be interesting to go out with someone who was a lot younger than me, 'cause I tend to have a really teenage personality.

Details: You were very public a few years ago about wanting to adopt a child. Are you still in the market for a baby?

Stevie Nicks: It just isn't the right time. But if a baby that I liked were made available to me and I thought it was definitely a destiny thing, then sure, I would take it immediately.

Details: Rumor number four: You are like the character in "Rhiannon"--a real witch.

Stevie Nicks: What do you think? (laughs) Honestly, I never dabbled in the black arts.

Details: Really? What about you and Prince?

Stevie Nicks: Let me state this here and now: We did not have a sexual relationship--I did not let that happen.

Details: How did you meet?

Stevie Nicks: When we were recording "Stand Back" I decided to be really blatant and call Prince up and tell him that I had been inspired to write the song while listening to "Little Red Corvette." I told him that I figured my song was half his. He came over to the studio where I was recording and listened to it--as I turned extremely white and started to shake. Then he walked over to the piano and put on a really incredible keyboard track. And not only did Prince make it up right on the spot, he played it with only two fingers. Then he left.

Details: Did you see him again?

Stevie Nicks: Yes, when I was on the road a year or so later. I was sick, and Prince brought some cough syrup up to my hotel room. He was sweet--he walked around the room folding things, fluffing pillows, tidying up in general. Then he gave me a spoon of it himself. But when I asked for another spoonful he changed--he said, "I didn't come all the way up here just to get you hooked on another substance!" Then he left.

Details: Do you still see him?

Stevie Nicks: No. I was at the premiere of Purple Rain, and in the scene where he slaps Apollonia I freaked and had to go sit in the bathroom. Afterward I went back to see him, and when he asked why I'd left, I had to tell him, "When you popped Apollonia, it kinda popped my brain." He looked at me like it just killed him. We've never spoken since. (sighs) It’s a shame, really...we were alike in so many ways.

Details: Such as?

Stevie Nicks: Well, for one thing, we both liked wearing black chiffon around the house.

catinthedark

06-28-2005, 11:30 AM

Stevie Nicks
Would you stay if she promised you heaven
by Lance Loud
Details: Now that you're forty-six, how are you dealing with your sex symbol status?

Stevie Nicks: I have no illusions. When I'm sixty years old I'll still be writing songs and singing them. But will someone in the audience say, "Gee, what a sexy older lady-babe she is"? I doubt it. I mean, get a life, you know? If physical beauty is the only reason people buy my records, then I don't know why I'm doing this.

"If you could see me now...."

Don't be so sure no one's saying that about you as you approach 60, Stevie honey. :thumbsup:

Details: People used to make fun of your platforms.

Stevie Nicks: And now they’re totally in style, thank you very much. If you don't see me in platform boots, you'll probably see me in my platform Reeboks. I wear them every day.

Wow - they were around back then??? I don't think I realized that. You know, I was one of the masses who didn't "get" the platforms in the early 80s. Now?? I look back, and I'm like, man, she had style.

Details: Rumor number two--still going around--is that you are still getting high.

Stevie Nicks: Untrue. I haven't done cocaine for eight years. Unfortunately, it's just the way I have to live. Do I miss it? Yeah, I miss it. Would I ever do it again? No. The doctors told me that I'd have a brain hemorrhage if I drank or did drugs.

I guess this was the klonopin era, right? Or just at the end of? When I read something like this, my respect for her just goes up hugely. I know what denial over an addiction or illness is about, and it's such a huge sign of recovery and good health when someone can talk about and admit to past addictions. I'm glad she can now - and I still think it's phenomenal where she's been in her life and where she is now.

Thanks for posting the article - I read it ages ago... but I love re-reading old stuff that I've forgotten about through the years!

DrummerDeanna

06-28-2005, 11:53 AM

Thanks for posting that interview - I found it very enjoyable - especially the fact that Stevie used the word, "Machismo" :laugh:

She is too cute!

blinker12

06-28-2005, 11:55 AM

I guess this was the klonopin era, right? Or just at the end of?

Yeah, I think she went into rehab for Klonopin in '93. At any rate, it was before Street Angel was released. The fact that she had "kicked it" by the time the record came out had to be at least partly why she was so kick-ass on tour that summer (94)! :thumbsup:

KarmaContestant

06-28-2005, 12:10 PM

That pic is from the August '94 issue of Details magazine.

Gosh, I love that picture. When it first came out, I had a friend of mine who works in a print shop blow it up into poster size for me. I still hav eit, but it's kind of tattered from being moved around so many times.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 12:42 PM

Details: Do you think Fleetwood Mac will reunite?

Stevie Nicks: Maybe. But not with me or Christine or Lindsey.
Famous last words :rolleyes:

Details: Did you keep a diary of your Mac life?

Stevie Nicks: Yeah, and if the book were to come out, a lot of people would cease to think of me as this eccentric, flaky girl. My journals tell the real story of what went on, like the way things changed after Bella Donna came out. No one in the band ever said a word to me about my solo career. They were keeping quiet for their own best interests. They knew if they ripped Bella Donna apart, I wouldn't give them any more songs. Remember, "Dreams"--which is just me--is the only gold single that Fleetwood Mac ever had.
Wow, she was sure full of herself, wasn't she? I guess "Dreams would have been what it was without the others. She acts like "Dreams" was the only hit the band ever had. This is a perfect example of why I was so turned off to Stevie in this period. Thank gawd she's not like that anymore.

SapphireSister

06-28-2005, 12:44 PM

What a phenomenal interview! Thanks so much for posting, Jason. Honestly one of the more enjoyable ones I've ever read.

Details: Do you think Fleetwood Mac will reunite?

Stevie Nicks: Maybe. But not with me or Christine or Lindsey.

Wait 3 more years Stevie....

Details: Did you keep a diary of your Mac life?

Stevie Nicks: Remember, "Dreams"--which is just me--is the only gold single that Fleetwood Mac ever had.

She loooooves to brag about this. I think it's cute.

Details: Now that you're forty-six, how are you dealing with your sex symbol status?

Stevie Nicks: I have no illusions. When I'm sixty years old I'll still be writing songs and singing them. But will someone in the audience say, "Gee, what a sexy older lady-babe she is"?

They'll all be saying it and they are!

Details: Any advice for Madonna?

Stevie Nicks: The sexual thing is pretty exhausted. Maybe a thesis on religion?

She took your advise Stevie! (Kabalah)

Details: People used to make fun of your platforms.

Stevie Nicks: And now they’re totally in style, thank you very much. If you don't see me in platform boots, you'll probably see me in my platform Reeboks. I wear them every day.

OMG and I thought the first time she wore these was for the SYW tour. She's been wearing them for over 10 years!!

Details: Rumor number two--still going around--is that you are still getting high.

Stevie Nicks: Untrue. I haven't done cocaine for eight years. Unfortunately, it's just the way I have to live. Do I miss it? Yeah, I miss it. Would I ever do it again? No. The doctors told me that I'd have a brain hemorrhage if I drank or did drugs.

But she contiuned to drink and has spoken openly about that...

Details: Rumor number three: In her act, Sandra Bernhard envisions a chiffon scarf fantasy with you. Is the feeling mutual?

Stevie Nicks: Sandra's a comedian--she’s gonna make up stuff like that. But truthfully--no, I'm not bisexual. I like men too much.

Damn you Stevie for ruining my fantasy! I don't believe you :-p

Details: Really? What about you and Prince?

Stevie Nicks: Let me state this here and now: We did not have a sexual relationship--I did not let that happen.

Details: How did you meet?

Stevie Nicks: When we were recording "Stand Back" I decided to be really blatant and call Prince up and tell him that I had been inspired to write the song while listening to "Little Red Corvette." I told him that I figured my song was half his. He came over to the studio where I was recording and listened to it--as I turned extremely white and started to shake. Then he walked over to the piano and put on a really incredible keyboard track. And not only did Prince make it up right on the spot, he played it with only two fingers. Then he left.

Details: Did you see him again?

Stevie Nicks: Yes, when I was on the road a year or so later. I was sick, and Prince brought some cough syrup up to my hotel room. He was sweet--he walked around the room folding things, fluffing pillows, tidying up in general. Then he gave me a spoon of it himself. But when I asked for another spoonful he changed--he said, "I didn't come all the way up here just to get you hooked on another substance!" Then he left.

Details: Do you still see him?

Stevie Nicks: No. I was at the premiere of Purple Rain, and in the scene where he slaps Apollonia I freaked and had to go sit in the bathroom. Afterward I went back to see him, and when he asked why I'd left, I had to tell him, "When you popped Apollonia, it kinda popped my brain." He looked at me like it just killed him. We've never spoken since. (sighs) It’s a shame, really...we were alike in so many ways.

But isn't it true he was at her house and saw her fall down the stairs or something like that and then rufused to talk to her because of her drug use? I think she left that part out.

skcin

06-28-2005, 12:53 PM

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 01:11 PM

Hello?!?! Yes they will! Sisters of the Boob ring a bell anyone? :shrug: If only she knew.....

BTW - I don't think the platform Reeboks made an actual public on-stage appearance until the TISL shows. I may be wrong.

She broke her foot or toe in the, I think, Mirror tour and wore them for some of those shoes.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 01:14 PM

Famous last words :rolleyes:

Wow, she was sure full of herself, wasn't she? I guess "Dreams would have been what it was without the others. She acts like "Dreams" was the only hit the band ever had. This is a perfect example of why I was so turned off to Stevie in this period. Thank gawd she's not like that anymore.

You said it! I was turned off by this type of attitude soon after Bella Donna. I'm sure the band was, too. There's so much b.s. in this article. Taking into consideration when it was done, I can cut Stevie a break, but she has done this type of interview many times over the years. A lot of new fans don't see what's going on in this interview because they weren't aware of how Stevie was behaving back then and what was going on in her life. This is just another example of how Stevie's comments have to be looked at in context. Passing judgment on others from the things she says when she's spouting off is a big mistake. She makes sure to mention everyone in FM treated her differently after Bella Donna becasue they were envious or jealous of her success. She doesn't mention how she changed and began acting out like a tempermental diva around that time. Lindsey hates her because she can write a song in a few minutes? Bwaahaaaaaa! :]

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 01:21 PM

You said it! I was turned off by this type of attitude soon after Bella Donna.
There's so much b.s. in this article. Any issues with Lindsey and his comments about "that band" back in the '90s, or is it always just directed at Stevie?

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 01:30 PM

Any issues with Lindsey and his comments about "that band" back in the '90s, or is it always just directed at Stevie?

Are we going to turn this into one of those threads now? :rolleyes:

This interview was with Stevie and it's about Stevie. If you want to post smarmy comments LB made about the band in the 90's go ahead. What has that got to do with my opinion of Stevie's comments in this interview?

:shrug:

SapphireSister

06-28-2005, 01:31 PM

David

06-28-2005, 01:37 PM

She STILL says the thing about Dreams being FM's only number one single. I heard her say it recently, or at least within the last 2 years.
I appriciate a lot of what you said though. Sometimes I think Stevie can do or say no wrong. She does talk a lot of sh*t in this article, even though it's still enjoyable to read.I think at this particular time, things were not very smooth among the members (or ex-members) of Fleetwood Mac. There were a lot of little fights going on or just winding up or even just starting: Mick & Stevie, Lindsey & Stevie, John & Stevie, Mick & Lindsey, Rick & Mick, Billy & Mick, etc.

It wasn't a great time for any of them in terms of their relationships with one another. They all sound a bit tired of one another in interviews at this point.

David

06-28-2005, 01:39 PM

OMG and I thought the first time she wore these was for the SYW tour. She's been wearing them for over 10 years!Actually, for more than 16 years, off & on. She had to wear them for a week or so on the 1989 "Other Side of the Mirror" tour because she broke her foot & couldn't wear the boots for awhile.

She started wearing them for most of her shows starting with the 1999/2000 Millennium Tour, & by the Shangri-La tour in 2001, she was in them practically all the time.

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 01:41 PM

Are we going to turn this into one of those threads now? :rolleyes:Sure, if you'd like. I'm always game.

This interview was with Stevie and it's about Stevie. If you want to post smarmy comments LB made about the band in the 90's go ahead. What has that got to do with my opinion of Stevie's comments in this interview? I'm just curious. All we ever hear from you are negative views about Stevie, so I was just wondering if she's the only member of the band who annoys you. It certainly sounds one-sided.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 01:45 PM

She STILL says the thing about Dreams being FM's only number one single. I heard her say it recently, or at least within the last 2 years.
I appriciate a lot of what you said though. Sometimes I think Stevie can do or say no wrong. She does talk a lot of sh*t in this article, even though it's still enjoyable to read.

The whole Dreams discussion can be shown from another viewpoint if anyone wants to post Christine's comments about that song. Are those around anywhere online? I know Chris once said Dreams started as nothing until Lindsey worked on it. I'm going from memory of a long time ago so I might not have this exactly right, word for word. She said something like Dreams wasn't even a song when Stevie showed it to the band. That was her opinion. Some people will see this viewpoint as LB propaganda even though he wasn't the one who said it.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 01:48 PM

I think at this particular time, things were not very smooth among the members (or ex-members) of Fleetwood Mac. There were a lot of little fights going on or just winding up or even just starting: Mick & Stevie, Lindsey & Stevie, John & Stevie, Mick & Lindsey, Rick & Mick, Billy & Mick, etc.

It wasn't a great time for any of them in terms of their relationships with one another. They all sound a bit tired of one another in interviews at this point.
Wait, what was up between Billy and Mick?

David

06-28-2005, 01:51 PM

Wait, what was up between Billy and Mick?I don't know! You're the one who knows what happened during the '90s!

Billy quit the band & then came back, right? Wasn't he mad at Mick about something?

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 01:53 PM

Sure, if you'd like. I'm always game.

I'm just curious. All we ever hear from you are negative views about Stevie, so I was just wondering if she's the only member of the band who annoys you. It certainly sounds one-sided.

Just becasue you can't take any criticism of Stevie doesn't mean I only say negative things about her, or that only she annoys me. I call a spade a spade on the board and I'm sorry if you don't always agree with my view. I don't see Stevie the way you do. So? You certainly didn't read my comments about Vegas if you have the nerve to say I only say negative things about her. You just don't want to read anything that shows La Nicks in a negative light. I call LB a whiney ass cry baby all the time and I get on his case for not releasing his material like he should. You just don't notice that becasue it doesn't bother you. :sorry:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 01:53 PM

Any issues with Lindsey and his comments about "that band" back in the '90s, or is it always just directed at Stevie?

LB can do not wrong and La Nicks is never allowed to feel hurt or rejected by the band she stuck with when she did not have to a la post BD - you know that :rolleyes:

Moreover, if La Nicks left the band after BD, FM would have been just as huge as it is today for La Nicks is nothing more than a talentless hack without FM despite her highly successful solo career - remember LB and CM's solo careers were so much more successful than Stevie's :rolleyes:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 01:55 PM

Are we going to turn this into one of those threads now? :rolleyes:

Like you did not know that when you posted that - blah blah blah :laugh:

This interview was with Stevie and it's about Stevie. If you want to post smarmy comments LB made about the band in the 90's go ahead. What has that got to do with my opinion of Stevie's comments in this interview?

:shrug:

The point is you hardly ever mention them but never hesitate to use Stevie's against her :wavey:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 01:56 PM

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 01:59 PM

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:02 PM

LB can do not wrong and La Nicks is never allowed to feel hurt or rejected by the band she stuck with when she did not have to a la post BD - you know that :rolleyes:

Moreover, if La Nicks left the band after BD, FM would have been just as huge as it is today for La Nicks is nothing more than a talentless hack without FM despite her highly successful solo career - remember LB and CM's solo careers were so much more successful than Stevie's :rolleyes:

Is it ever possible to criticize Stevie in a post without it turning into an issue of other band members or who is the most famous or who is the most valuable to the band? Not everyone thinks the world began when Stevie got her solo career. Why does every criticism of Stevie turn into an argument about who is better than she? She's the most famous and she stuck with the band when she didn't have to (by the way...that's b.s., too) blah, blah. What does that have to do with the way she was talking in the interview in this thread?

:shrug:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:04 PM

Like you did not know that when you posted that - blah blah blah :laugh:

The point is you hardly ever mention them but never hesitate to use Stevie's against her :wavey:

HELLO! This is the Stevie forum, isn't it? Again, it's an interview about Stevie not LB. :rolleyes:

:xoxo:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:07 PM

Is it ever possible to criticize Stevie in a post without it turning into an issue of other band members or who is the most famous or who is the most valuable to the band?

Apparantly not :laugh:

. . . She's the most famous and she stuck with the band when she didn't have to (by the way...that's b.s., too) blah, blah.

Yea right - she came back to them after selling millions of records on her own and just jumped right into the hostile environments of Mirage and TITN because she enjoyed the abuse :laugh: :laugh: Then, after sticking with FM for five or so more years, she finally calls it quits essentially when CM Mdoes as well. Boy, was I misguided in calling her loyal :laugh:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:08 PM

HELLO! This is the Stevie forum, isn't it? Again, it's an interview about Stevie not LB. :rolleyes:

:xoxo:

boy - I did a search in the LB forum and your gleeful but incorrect use of his quotes against him was so prolific my computer could'nt handle it :laugh: :laugh:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:14 PM

Apparantly not :laugh:

Yea right - she came back to them after selling millions of records on her own and just jumped right into the hostile environments of Mirage and TITN because she enjoyed the abuse :laugh: :laugh: Then, after sticking with FM for five or so more years, she finally calls it quits essentially when CM Mdoes as well. Boy, was I misguided in calling her loyal :laugh:

Again, you're view. You're entitled to it. You call it loyal. I call it shrewd. Stevie is not as dumb as some people think. Also, has it ever occurred to you that her solo handlers were insistant that she stay in FM because without the association with a supergroup Stevie wouldn't have had that much appeal to start her solo deal? Has it ever occurred to you she also stayed in the band for other reasons besides tride and true loyalty? I can think of half a dozen other reasons but I don't want to get anyone upset if I say Stevie could have had other motives besides the ones all her loyal fans want to ascribe to her. If that's what you want to believe I don't want to argue about it.

:wavey:

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 02:17 PM

Just becasue you can't take any criticism of Stevie doesn't mean I only say negative things about her, or that only she annoys me. I call a spade a spade on the board and I'm sorry if you don't always agree with my view. I don't see Stevie the way you do. So? You certainly didn't read my comments about Vegas if you have the nerve to say I only say negative things about her. You just don't want to read anything that shows La Nicks in a negative light. I call LB a whiney ass cry baby all the time and I get on his case for not releasing his material like he should. You just don't notice that becasue it doesn't bother you. :sorry:The fact that I don't spend my days picking apart the mental health of a rock star I've never met, or discussing all the ways in which she's a "lesser talent" than her bandmates, doesn't mean I can't take criticism of Stevie, or that I haven't levelled my own criticisms towards her at times.
That's just a bull**** accusation designed to justifiy your oft-voiced contempt.

The amount of times you've called Lindsey a "whiney ass cry baby" is dwarfed by the amount of times you've discussed the finer points of Stevie's mentally unstable being. I was just looking for a little balance.

HELLO! This is the Stevie forum, isn't it?Yes, it is. So don't be surprised if one of us... *gasp*... Stevie fans disagrees with your opinions.

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:18 PM

Again, you're view. You're entitled to it. You call it loyal. I call it shrewd. Stevie is not as dumb as some people think. Also, has it ever occurred to you that her solo handlers were insistant that she stay in FM because without the association with a supergroup Stevie wouldn't have had that much appeal to start her solo deal? Has it ever occurred to you she also stayed in the band for other reasons besides tride and true loyalty? I can think of half a dozen other reasons but I don't want to get anyone upset if I say Stevie could have had other motives besides the ones all her loyal fans want to ascribe to her. If that's what you want to believe I don't want to argue about it.

:wavey:

Well, I think she profited from being in FM and I think she likes and liked being in FM - but she says it was out of loyalty that she went back time and time again and that makes sense because LB was a PRICK to her then. But, you cannot ever admit that she has any kind of goodness in her regarding that scenario or that none of it at all had anything to do with loyalty - so be it.

Interestingly, have you ever watched the Tusk doc. outtakes - they are so rude to Stevie it is almost embarrasing to watch. I mean who would want to be around that when they are selling well on their own. I sure would not.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:21 PM

boy - I did a search in the LB forum and your gleeful but incorrect use of his quotes against him was so prolific my computer could'nt handle it :laugh: :laugh:

Where is the thread in the LB forum where people are discussing his quotes? I don't recall? :rolleyes:

Where is my gleeful and incorrect use of Stevie's quotes in this thread? :rolleyes:

:sorry:

You win. I see the error of my ways. I loved the way Stevie was talking like a spoiled diva after she went solo. That's why I became a chiffonhead soon after. I never allow anyone to say anything bad about her. She's my woman! :p :laugh:

:woohoo:

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:22 PM

Any issues with Lindsey and his comments about "that band" back in the '90s, or is it always just directed at Stevie?
Well, this IS an article about Stevie...

But, I generally think both Lindsey and Stevie have been the brats of the band. I think both overestimated their abilities to make it on their own in the early '90s, being completely free of Fleetwood Mac, and were basically handed a lesson in humility. They couldn't just leave the band and be classy about it. They had to make a public spectacle of it, and put the band down every chance they could.

This article shows Stevie going off the deep end. It got worse, though, when she talked about how the band "scared" her. Okay, then why did she stay in it for over fifteen years, or at least another ten years after she had a successful solo career? That Stevie would still be talking about an album she did thirteen years earlier, and about a Fleetwood Mac hit from seventeen years earlier as if they were still relevant to the discussion of her current popularity seems pretty juvenile. That's what washed up artists do. Luckily, she was able to redeem herself.

As for Lindsey, he has the biggest, yet most fragile, ego of any rocker I've ever seen. I especially find it ironic that Lindsey has ragged on Mick for hurting the band's legacy with the book and the subsequent incarnations of Fleetwood Mac, all the while making comments that were basically attacking that same legacy. Furthermore, I don't think he has appreciated the freedom that he had in Fleetwood Mac. Most bands would have fired him around the time of "Tusk" after he made so many demands. He certainly had more freedom to do whatever than any other Mac guitarist, which is something he should consider before putting the other guitarists down.

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 02:22 PM

Interestingly, have you ever watched the Tusk doc. outtakes - they are so rude to Stevie it is almost embarrasing to watch.And that was before 'Bella Donna.'
I think I would have had a bit of an attitude by the '80s if I were Stevie, too.

"Roll your eyes at me all you want, Mr. Buckingham -- I have a number 1 album."

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:25 PM

Where is the thread in the LB forum where people are discussing his quotes? I don't recall? :rolleyes:

My point was there is none because you rarely if ever attribute any unking words to him in this regard.

You win. I see the error of my ways. I loved the way Stevie was talking like a spoiled diva after she went solo. That's why I became a chiffonhead soon after. I never allow anyone to say anything bad about her. She's my woman! :p :laugh:

:woohoo:

That's more like it :laugh:

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:25 PM

I don't know! You're the one who knows what happened during the '90s!

Billy quit the band & then came back, right? Wasn't he mad at Mick about something?
No. In fact, the press release that I read said that they were still good friends, but Billy wanted to do another country album and make a movie.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:31 PM

Then, after sticking with FM for five or so more years, she finally calls it quits essentially when CM does as well.
Christine didn't call it quits altogether, though. She had the most songs of anybody on "Time." She just didn't tour.

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:33 PM

Christine didn't call it quits altogether, though. She had the most songs of anybody on "Time." She just didn't tour.

True - but that was a compromise because she quit the touring part of the band. In the end, I think they had all just had it with each other.

David

06-28-2005, 02:34 PM

No. In fact, the press release that I read said that they were still good friends, but Billy wanted to do another country album and make a movie.Well, you have "conveniently" forgotten that terrible argument they had back in ... oh, '92 ... when billy kicked Mick in the crotch. Mick doubled over in pain, gasped & then yelled something at Billy that brought an embarrassed silence to the entourage of management & co-worker.

It was a horrible, horrible contretemps. I blush with shame.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:36 PM

Well, you have "conveniently" forgotten that terrible argument they had back in ... oh, '92 ... when billy kicked Mick in the crotch. Mick doubled over in pain, gasped & then yelled something at Billy that brought an embarrassed silence to the entourage of management & co-worker.

It was a horrible, horrible contretemps. I blush with shame.
Damn that Billy! And, you KNOW he was wearing his boots!

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:39 PM

Damn that Billy! And, you KNOW he was wearing his boots!

steel toed at that :laugh:

David

06-28-2005, 02:43 PM

And that was before 'Bella Donna.'
I think I would have had a bit of an attitude by the '80s if I were Stevie, too.Yes, they were seriously nasty to her. But there's something about her fluffy personality that brings out the sadist in many people, including her bandmates. Remember that print interview she did with Sylvie Simmons in Creem? Sylvie said she wanted to pound Stevie's face to a pulp (I'm paraphrasing!) but that some of the children of her acquaintances wanted to "protect" her.

Stevie elicits widely varying responses in other people: some good, some bad. Unfortunately for Stevie, the responses she elicited from Fleetwood Mac were mostly bad back then. I hate to say it, but it's equivalent to the "so and so was just asking for it" in today's rape debates. But we must deal with that honestly if we are ever able to understand it. Why do people get violent when they think about or talk about Stevie? Was it their upbringing? Was it a combination of nature & nurture? A bad trip? A real or imagined slight by Stevie herself? Stars in the wrong alignment?

We must deal honestly with our sadistic desires to torture Stevie, & look deep within ourselves. Christine, if you are here, look deep within yourself. Same goes for you, Lindsey, & you, John .. & yes, even you, Mick. And Waddy, you could stand to do that, too, & you, too, Don Henley & Joe Walsh. Ginny, you, too.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:43 PM

True - but that was a compromise because she quit the touring part of the band. In the end, I think they had all just had it with each other.
Christine's not touring was due more to the death of her father than any feelings she had towards the others. She just wanted to spend more time with her family. Frankly, she was the most gracious of the lot. She only had glowing things to say about the others.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:44 PM

Well, I think she profited from being in FM and I think she likes and liked being in FM - but she says it was out of loyalty that she went back time and time again and that makes sense because LB was a PRICK to her then. But, you cannot ever admit that she has any kind of goodness in her regarding that scenario or that none of it at all had anything to do with loyalty - so be it.

Interestingly, have you ever watched the Tusk doc. outtakes - they are so rude to Stevie it is almost embarrasing to watch. I mean who would want to be around that when they are selling well on their own. I sure would not.

:sorry: I can't keep going around in circles with you if your view of Stevie and the other people in Fleetwood Mac comes from pasting together old quotes and watching bootlegs from years ago when you weren't even a fan of the band at that time. You and I will never see things the same way. If you got into Stevie as a solo, and you worship her and everything she does in her solo career, you can never see her from my viewpoint. Plain and simple. You're entitled to your view, as skewed as it is. I appreciate what you have to say. Perhaps a few people reading the board would like to know opinions of fans who don't see Stevie and FM the same way? Maybe not?

As far as Tusk outtakes...I don't agree everyone was always so rude to Stevie. I do know, at that time, Stevie was sneaking around laying the foundation for her solo career behind everyone's back and they heard rumblings about it. That couldn't have had anything to do with what you see as her being dissed? LB was a big asshole during the Tusk tour. No doubt. He was not too polite to her all the time during Rumours either. Again, I know what Stevie was doing offstage, and so do you, not just the stuff shown on some doc footage of the band in the studio and on tour. Doesn't excuse bad behavior or hostile attitudes from others, but Stevie is far from a martyr when it comes to her staying in FM.

I agree with you...who would want to be around that when they are selling well on their own. I sure would not. :nod:

:angel:

David

06-28-2005, 02:45 PM

Christine's not touring was due more to the death of her father than any feelings she had towards the others. She just wanted to spend more time with her family. Frankly, she was the most gracious of the lot. She only had glowing things to say about the others.On tour, she referred repeatedly to "these blow-honkies my bandmates" & often launched spitwads at them while they were singing "Rhiannon" or "Oh Well."

At first, we in the audience didn't know where the spitwads were coming from -- we thought maybe it was John Courage doing it -- but then we could see Christine ducking down behind the KX-88, preparing the next wad.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 02:46 PM

Yes, they were seriously nasty to her. But there's something about her fluffy personality that brings out the sadist in many people, including her bandmates. Remember that print interview she did with Sylvie Simmons in Creem? Sylvie said she wanted to pound Stevie's face to a pulp (I'm paraphrasing!) but that some of the children of her acquaintances wanted to "protect" her.

Stevie elicits widely varying responses in other people: some good, some bad. Unfortunately for Stevie, the responses she elicited from Fleetwood Mac were mostly bad back then. I hate to say it, but it's equivalent to the "so and so was just asking for it" in today's rape debates. But we must deal with that honestly if we are ever able to understand it. Why do people get violent when they think about or talk about Stevie? Was it their upbringing? Was it a combination of nature & nurture? A bad trip? A real or imagined slight by Stevie herself? Stars in the wrong alignment?

We must deal honestly with our sadistic desires to torture Stevie, & look deep within ourselves. Christine, if you are here, look deep within yourself. Same goes for you, Lindsey, & you, John .. & yes, even you, Mick. And Waddy, you could stand to do that, too, & you, too, Don Henley & Joe Walsh. Ginny, you, too.
sniff, sniff
Is that a little sarcasm I smell there?

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:46 PM

Mokona

06-28-2005, 02:46 PM

This interview was a shock to me. You can definitely see the impact of meds on her personality. I wonder how many milligrams of Klonopin she was taking? She went into rehab, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was taking more than the prescribed amount. Some people have a really difficult time weaning off even the smallest dosages of Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, etc.

I take both Klonopin and an anti-depressant for anxiety right now and they both can dull your creativity, change your personality and the way your mind is functioning. My dosages aren't even that high; I'd love to quit both but so far haven't been able to. Props to Stevie for being able to work on anxiety issues/whatever else on her own without meds. It's really tough.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:47 PM

The fact that I don't spend my days picking apart the mental health of a rock star I've never met, or discussing all the ways in which she's a "lesser talent" than her bandmates, doesn't mean I can't take criticism of Stevie, or that I haven't levelled my own criticisms towards her at times.
That's just a bull**** accusation designed to justifiy your oft-voiced contempt.

The amount of times you've called Lindsey a "whiney ass cry baby" is dwarfed by the amount of times you've discussed the finer points of Stevie's mentally unstable being. I was just looking for a little balance.

Yes, it is. So don't be surprised if one of us... *gasp*... Stevie fans disagrees with your opinions.

You can disagree all you want. Just don't mis-state my opinions as you both so often do. I'm entitled to my opinions same as you. :nod:

:wavey:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:49 PM

:sorry: I can't keep going around in circles with you if your view of Stevie and the other people in Fleetwood Mac comes from pasting together old quotes and watching bootlegs from years ago when you weren't even a fan of the band at that time.

I have followed them since FM FM and knew of FM prior to the five.

David

06-28-2005, 02:50 PM

I thought I read that she was tired of touring - but I defer to you.Her dad died in the summer of 1990 & Chris was in the U.S. touring. She probably felt the way we all felt if we were on tour with a dumb rock band when our dad died overseas: frustrated, angry, guilty, etc.

It's easy to picture someone saying, "I'm done touring with you blow-honkies after this." Sure enough, that's what Chris did!

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:52 PM

Her dad died in the summer of 1990 & Chris was in the U.S. touring. She probably felt the way we all felt if we were on tour with a dumb rock band when our dad died overseas: frustrated, angry, guilty, etc.

It's easy to picture someone saying, "I'm done touring with you blow-honkies after this." Sure enough, that's what Chris did!

LOL - I am imagining the term "blow-honkies" with that BBC esq. accent :laugh:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:52 PM

I have followed them since FM FM and knew of FM prior to the five.

When you were five? You were reading the contemporary rock press at that time and not just forming all your views from old quotes out of context? Sorry, I stand corrected. :sorry:

:wavey:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:53 PM

You can disagree all you want. Just don't mis-state my opinions as you both so often do. I'm entitled to my opinions same as you. :nod:

:wavey:

Considering you cannot even get the length of my fandom correct . . . :laugh: :wavey: :p

David

06-28-2005, 02:54 PM

sniff, sniff
Is that a little sarcasm I smell there?Not sarcasm, Steve. The sadism many feel is genuine & real. What is the root of this sadism directed at Stevie Nicks?

Fluoride in the water?

Headache-triggering computer monitors?

Career frustration?

An overwhelming sense of malaise?

Not enough fiber in the diet?

We must get to the bottom of this.

Say, what did one fiber strand say to the other after being swallowed? "We must get to the bottom of this."

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:54 PM

When you were five? You were reading the contemporary rock press at that time and not just forming all your views from old quotes out of context? Sorry, I stand corrected. :sorry:

:wavey:

I was born in 1966 - I had an older brother who LOVED FM as did several of my not much older relatives. So, you do indeed stand corrected.

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 02:56 PM

Considering you cannot even get the length of my fandom correct . . . :laugh: :wavey: :p

I guess I confused you with someone else. I thought you once said you were a fan of Stevie since Wild Heart. Since I form my opinions from experience and memory, not looking up quotes or people's posting history, I must be in error. I stand corrected.

:wavey:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 02:58 PM

I guess I confused you with someone else. I thought you once said you were a fan of Stevie since Wild Heart. Since I form my opinions from experience and memory, not looking up quotes or people's posting history, I must be in error. I stand corrected.

:wavey:

I cannot believe I am happy to be older :laugh:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 03:00 PM

I cannot believe I am happy to be older :laugh:

I'm sure as hell NOT. Maybe that's why I'm cranky today? Another year older and deeper in debt. :eek:

:woohoo:

Mari

06-28-2005, 03:00 PM

Not sarcasm, Steve. The sadism many feel is genuine & real. What is the root of this sadism directed at Stevie Nicks?

Fluoride in the water?

Hmm.. would have to check that..

Headache-triggering computer monitors?
check
Career frustration?
check!!
An overwhelming sense of malaise?
mwoh... uh.. yeah I guess.. check
Not enough fiber in the diet?
plenty of that.

We must get to the bottom of this.

Say, what did one fiber strand say to the other after being swallowed? "We must get to the bottom of this."
:lol: :lol:

anyway, now I know why I have a site like that...

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 03:01 PM

I'm sure as hell NOT. Maybe that's why I'm cranky today? Another year older and deeper in debt. :eek:

:woohoo:

Child - don't I know it :laugh:

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 03:16 PM

You can disagree all you want. Just don't mis-state my opinions as you both so often do. I'm entitled to my opinions same as you. :nod:I'm not sure what's left to infere from the comments you've made. You've questioned Stevie's mental health, have you not? You've talked about avoidance and her inability to face the truth. You've also said many times that despite what she may say in a direct quote, it's really not what she "means."
How am I misreading your opinions?

And, yes, you're most certainly entitled to your opinions. My disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't respect that fact.

SapphireSister

06-28-2005, 03:26 PM

Stevie elicits widely varying responses in other people: some good, some bad. Unfortunately for Stevie, the responses she elicited from Fleetwood Mac were mostly bad back then. I hate to say it, but it's equivalent to the "so and so was just asking for it" in today's rape debates. But we must deal with that honestly if we are ever able to understand it. Why do people get violent when they think about or talk about Stevie? Was it their upbringing? Was it a combination of nature & nurture? A bad trip? A real or imagined slight by Stevie herself? Stars in the wrong alignment?

We must deal honestly with our sadistic desires to torture Stevie, & look deep within ourselves. Christine, if you are here, look deep within yourself. Same goes for you, Lindsey, & you, John .. & yes, even you, Mick. And Waddy, you could stand to do that, too, & you, too, Don Henley & Joe Walsh. Ginny, you, too.

Welcome ladies and gentelmen to the Stevie Nicks Therapy Hour and please allow me to introduce the host of today's show, David. David will help us all get in touch with our inner Stevies, and to find out truly what affect she has on our souls and why we act the way we do towards her. Because you see, there is a little part Stevie in all of us and through this Stevie Nicks therapy you will finally be able to discover the real you and have a solution for all your problems and live happily ever after!!!!
:D

sparky

06-28-2005, 03:35 PM

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 03:36 PM

David will help us all get in touch with our inner Stevies, and to find out truly what affect she has on our souls and why we act the way we do towards her.Maybe it is that "fairy princess," "woman/child" side of her personality (or image).
Perhaps it makes some folks want to shake her and tell her to wake up and look at the real world.
Or maybe some are threatened because it reflects a side of themselves that they're uncomfortable with (it's not easy in this day and age to allow yourself to be vulnerable)?

Then there are others who do it simply to get attention (why be one of the multitude in a love-fest, when you can say intentionally inflammatory things that will automatically make you stand out from the crowd?).

A few others may have had parents (or puppies!) who were murdered by Stevie Nicks, and just can't get over it.

At the end of the day, this much is true... the worst thing to happen to an artist's career, is when people don't talk about you.

sparky

06-28-2005, 03:38 PM

Considering you cannot even get the length of my fandom correct . . . :laugh: :wavey: :p

Would this require a ruler ? And where would one measure from, exactly ? :wavey: :laugh:

AliP

06-28-2005, 03:39 PM

The whole Dreams discussion can be shown from another viewpoint if anyone wants to post Christine's comments about that song. Are those around anywhere online? I know Chris once said Dreams started as nothing until Lindsey worked on it. I'm going from memory of a long time ago so I might not have this exactly right, word for word. She said something like Dreams wasn't even a song when Stevie showed it to the band. That was her opinion. Some people will see this viewpoint as LB propaganda even though he wasn't the one who said it.

TA DA!! Here it is:

Classic CDs - Rumours with Roger Moore - 11/90
"Before we recorded Dreams, Stevie played it on the piano and Stevie is a self confessed non musical person she knows four chords on the piano I think and as Lindsey always says, rightly, “yes, but they’re the right four chords” and she played the song for us and I thought to myself I don’t know this sounds a little bit tedious to me it’s just going “ting, ding, ting ding” all the way through the song and Lindsey, I suppose, in his great hindsight said, “no this is going to be wonderful. We’ll record it and build each section differently so that those four chords run all the way through.” Actually I think she only used three chords for this one but although they are the same three chords it doesn’t sound like it. It was actually our first number one, our only number one single in Fleetwood Mac history.”

What a cutie Lindsey is - he recognizes Stevie's real talent! I love it! :wavey:

She's the most famous and she stuck with the band when she didn't have to (by the way...that's b.s., too) blah, blah.

This is not directed at you, glitter_fades, but just similar comments from different people. Am I the only one who doesn't think it's such a big deal that Stevie wanted to have a solo career?? It's like some people blame her for going out on her own but then turn around and blame her for saying that she liked working with FM and wanted to come back to FM. She had every right to have a solo career, as did Lindsey, and everyone else in the band. So what's the big deal?

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 03:39 PM

As usual, I think (David) deserve(s) a Pulitzer Prize.I say this with not even an ounce of sarcasm... David is the one Ledgie I'd most want to be like. He's well-read, extremely articulate, and whether he's praising or critcizing, his comments are never anything less than thoughtful and insightful.

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 03:45 PM

. . . This is not directed at you, glitter_fades, but just similar comments from different people. Am I the only one who doesn't think it's such a big deal that Stevie wanted to have a solo career?? It's like some people blame her for going out on her own but then turn around and blame her for saying that she liked working with FM and wanted to come back to FM. She had every right to have a solo career, as did Lindsey, and everyone else in the band. So what's the big deal?

Many people think La Nicks joined FM to gain stardom, used LB as a crafter for his work, contributed nothing musically to FM, and/or saved much of her better songs for her solo career, esp. in the TITN era. I do not think that, but you asked so that is some insight.

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 03:46 PM

Would this require a ruler ? And where would one measure from, exactly ? :wavey: :laugh:

I'll be over tonight and we can measure together for either a double wide or a double long fandom. :eek: :wavey:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 03:51 PM

I say this with not even an ounce of sarcasm... David is the one Ledgie I'd most want to be like. He's well-read, extremely articulate, and whether he's praising or critcizing, his comments are never anything less than thoughtful and insightful.

He is the poet in my heart. :D

:thumbsup:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 03:52 PM

Many people think La Nicks sued FM to gain stardom, used LB as a crafter for his work, contributed nothing musically to FM, and/or saved much of her better songs for her solo career, esp. in the TITN era. I do not think that, but you asked so that is some insight.

I certainly don't think so. :shrug:

Why would she sue FM? Just kidding.

:laugh:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 03:59 PM

I certainly don't think so. :shrug:

Why would she sue FM? Just kidding.

:laugh:

oops!!!!!!

I meant joined - damn laptop :mad: :laugh:

Rumour0323

06-28-2005, 04:23 PM

oops!!!!!!

I meant joined - damn laptop :mad: :laugh:

Freudian slip there Jason :laugh:

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 04:33 PM

Freudian slip there Jason :laugh:

well, if we had been talking about LB currently - then yes :laugh: :eek: :laugh:

David

06-28-2005, 04:54 PM

SapphireSister

06-28-2005, 04:59 PM

Oh, come now. Stop it. I'm trolling! I'm hijacking threads!

For the life of me, I simply can't be serious about Fleetwood Mac anymore.

David did you like my little commentary on you? It was a compliment :)

David

06-28-2005, 05:09 PM

Classic CDs - Rumours with Roger Moore - 11/90
"Before we recorded Dreams, Stevie played it on the piano and Stevie is a self confessed non musical person she knows four chords on the piano I think and as Lindsey always says, rightly, “yes, but they’re the right four chords” and she played the song for us and I thought to myself I don’t know this sounds a little bit tedious to me it’s just going “ting, ding, ting ding” all the way through the song and Lindsey, I suppose, in his great hindsight said, “no this is going to be wonderful. We’ll record it and build each section differently so that those four chords run all the way through.” Actually I think she only used three chords for this one but although they are the same three chords it doesn’t sound like it. It was actually our first number one, our only number one single in Fleetwood Mac history.” Here Chris says the rest of the band weren't that keen on what Stevie played them of "Dreams." Way back in 1980 on the Source Fleetwood Mac interview, Stevie says that she played it for them & that "they weren't nuts about it."

But didn't Stevie say more recently (since 1997 or so) that "they loved it" when she first played it?
Am I the only one who doesn't think it's such a big deal that Stevie wanted to have a solo career? It's like some people blame her for going out on her own but then turn around and blame her for saying that she liked working with FM and wanted to come back to FM. She had every right to have a solo career, as did Lindsey, and everyone else in the band. So what's the big deal?If I had been Stevie Nicks at that point, I would have gone RUNNING ... indeed, SCREAMING RUNNING to a solo career. I can imagine what it's like to hang around a group of people who all have a skill (in this case, playing instruments) that I don't have, & having to try to talk to them about tasks at hand pertaining to that skill or requiring that skill, & feeling very left out, & feeling as if they all thought I was a tad stupid & that I had nothing of much value to add to the proceedings.

I'd have fled that environment so fast that Studio D in Village Recorder would have been left spinning.

It's human nature. I think Stevie started soloing as much for that reason as for the other reason she gives -- that she wanted to get surplus songs recorded & out to people.

Fans on these boards are too narrow-minded in their interpretations of events & feelings & comments. Most people are complex mixtures of emotions & stances & preferences, & can't be labeled so easily. For example, you can be great friends with someone & still get extremely irritated with that person (or vice versa). You can feel very close -- almost like a sibling -- to someone & still dread doing certain things with that person, like a specific hobby or activity. Some of us who play or sing or something like that might like performing for some people but not for others -- for example, we don't want members of our family to hear us play the piccolo, but we love playing the piccolo for friends & strangers in a big crowd.

I think a part of Stevie has always dreaded doing music with Fleetwood Mac, either onstage or in the studio. It can't -- it just CAN'T -- have been very enjoyable for her. Remember, her inability to play an instrument or discuss a chord progression or a production effect did not hinder her status when she was in the studio with HER session players & best friends. In that environment, she was still queen of the heap. In Fleetwood Mac, she was not queen of the heap -- especially not when the band was tracking.

David

06-28-2005, 05:13 PM

David did you like my little commentary on you? It was a compliment :)I certainly did, & I wish fans would take us two a lot more seriously!! & reach deep within themselves & get to the root of that sadism & stare it in the face & say loudly & proudly to themselves: "Yeah, so I wanna bop Stevie in the face, sure. But I'm still a good person!! I also want to crack Mick's knees the next time he announces a business venture."

Sadism In Action: Remember backstage somewhere during the 1982 tour, Lindsey stuck out his foot as Stevie was walking by, & it launched her forward?

sparky

06-28-2005, 05:28 PM

Oh, come now. Stop it. I'm trolling! I'm hijacking threads!

For the life of me, I simply can't be serious about Fleetwood Mac anymore.

The real root of my appreciation.

SapphireSister

06-28-2005, 05:29 PM

I also want to crack Mick's knees the next time he announces a business venture."

I wonder how the wine venture worked out?

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 05:42 PM

Oh, come now. Stop it. I'm trolling! I'm hijacking threads!You don't believe that anymore than I do. Just take a compliment. :p :xoxo:

For the life of me, I simply can't be serious about Fleetwood Mac anymore.I think the trick is to take them seriously without taking them too seriously.
At the end of the day they're just a group of disparate individuals who got lucky and hit it big, and we're a group of disparate individuals passing our time talking about them.

chiliD

06-28-2005, 05:43 PM

I say this with not even an ounce of sarcasm... David is the one Ledgie I'd most want to be like.

:shocked:
Oh, GOD, please...NO! One in this universe is enough. :cool:

Johnny Stew

06-28-2005, 05:45 PM

:shocked:
Oh, GOD, please...NO! One in this universe is enough. :cool:Well, if there can be three Johnny Stews! :shocked: :laugh:

glitter_fades

06-28-2005, 05:56 PM

I certainly did, & I wish fans would take us two a lot more seriously!! & reach deep within themselves & get to the root of that sadism & stare it in the face & say loudly & proudly to themselves: "Yeah, so I wanna bop Stevie in the face, sure. But I'm still a good person!! I also want to crack Mick's knees the next time he announces a business venture."

Sadism In Action: Remember backstage somewhere during the 1982 tour, Lindsey stuck out his foot as Stevie was walking by, & it launched her forward?

Talk about it! I'd ram that Turner so far up his snotty nose he'd need the jaws of life to pry it loose. :laugh:

:wavey:

AliP

06-28-2005, 08:59 PM

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 09:12 PM

. . . If I had been Stevie Nicks at that point, I would have gone RUNNING ... indeed, SCREAMING RUNNING to a solo career. I can imagine what it's like to hang around a group of people who all have a skill (in this case, playing instruments) that I don't have, & having to try to talk to them about tasks at hand pertaining to that skill or requiring that skill, & feeling very left out, & feeling as if they all thought I was a tad stupid & that I had nothing of much value to add to the proceedings.

I tend to agree, but I would add that La Nicks must have thought - though this is not my genre - when we get on stage, you all need me more than I need you as witnessed by my successful solo career - so humor me in the studio damnit :laugh: I certainly would have thought that :laugh: Note - I realize the other four are huge talents, but La Nicks is a star, and attraction, etc., a quality none of the other four has as much of despite that huge musical talent.

. . . In Fleetwood Mac, she was not queen of the heap -- especially not when the band was tracking.

She was on stage from around Rumors on to the vast majority of people, though some did not like her - and that must have bugged them a little to see all this HUGE stage presence and little actual musical talent. It would have been hard for anyone to swallow.

In the end though, I am glad that all seems to be for the most part behind them to the point where they appear to be able to adjust to it, etc.

dissention

06-28-2005, 09:37 PM

LB can do not wrong and La Nicks is never allowed to feel hurt or rejected by the band she stuck with when she did not have to a la post BD - you know that :rolleyes:

Moreover, if La Nicks left the band after BD, FM would have been just as huge as it is today for La Nicks is nothing more than a talentless hack without FM despite her highly successful solo career - remember LB and CM's solo careers were so much more successful than Stevie's :rolleyes:

I cut the woman some slack when it comes to the early nineties period. She had to contend with leaving the band on less than good terms, yet another drug addiction, a declining career, and unfulfilling musical work. She may sound bitter or bitchy here and there, but what human being wouldn't be like that when all that stuff is going on in your life?

darklinensuit

06-28-2005, 09:46 PM

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/dreammms/stevie-aliceinwonderland.jpg

When I bought that magazine I thought she had visted Olive Oyle's makeup person while still in her pajamas. And that self-parody of a pose. I still can't stand the pic. :shrug:

- Jake

gldstwmn

06-28-2005, 10:18 PM

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/dreammms/stevie-aliceinwonderland.jpg

Wasn't that in a book of photos by David LaChapelle? He talks about the shoot here, I think:
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/press/oceandrive.shtml

I was photographing Stevie Nicks a few years back when she was heavy. I sat her down and said, ‘It doesn’t matter because I’m going to make you look great.’ But then when I shot her for her last album I didn’t have to do anything, because she had lost that weight. Maybe that earlier sitting inspired her and gave her a little incentive. I have power with these photos and I’m going to use it to make these people look great, in the same way the old Hollywood photographers used everything that was available to them.”

gldstwmn

06-28-2005, 10:22 PM

He also photographed this:
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/portraits/HTML/076.html

gldstwmn

06-28-2005, 10:23 PM

Another gorgeous photo from what I think is the same session:
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/portraits/HTML/164.html

It's dated November, 1993.

GardenStateGirlie

06-28-2005, 10:26 PM

I don't enjoy a great deal of LaChapelle's work--he has hits but when he misses, he misses big time. That neon picture of Stevie with the parasol reminds me of some crazy Toulouse-Lautrec creation. I don't care for it at all.

darklinensuit

06-28-2005, 10:29 PM

Another gorgeous photo from what I think is the same session:
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/portraits/HTML/164.html

It's dated November, 1993.

And I didn't see this one until a couple of years ago, but it's worlds better than the other. Old Time Hollywood. I'm surprised Stevie didn't use it; it would have been a cool cover photo had Greta been a single.

- Jake

GypsySorcerer

06-28-2005, 10:32 PM

And I didn't see this one until a couple of years ago, but it's worlds better than the other. Old Time Hollywood. I'm surprised Stevie didn't use it; it would have been a cool cover photo had Greta been a single.

- Jake

I must be the only one who dislikes that picture. I really don't even think it looks like Stevie.

strandinthewind

06-28-2005, 10:33 PM

Another gorgeous photo from what I think is the same session:
http://www.davidlachapelle.com/portraits/HTML/164.html

It's dated November, 1993.

One of my fav.'s ever.

darklinensuit

06-28-2005, 10:35 PM

I must be the only one who dislikes that picture. I really don't even think it looks like Stevie.

The hair is blech, but otherwise I like it. Do you thing the Olive Oyle with parasol looks like Stevie?

- Jake

GypsySorcerer

06-28-2005, 10:36 PM

The hair is blech, but otherwise I like it. Do you thing the Olive Oyle with parasol looks like Stevie?

- Jake

No, I hate that one too. :laugh:

darklinensuit

06-28-2005, 10:40 PM

No, I hate that one too. :laugh:

The seated one is a weird pose with weird lighting. I guess the dark things around her help it for me.
But hey, you're consistent, and that's good. ;)

- Jake

gldstwmn

06-28-2005, 10:57 PM

LOL - I am imagining the term "blow-honkies" with that BBC esq. accent :laugh:

She called it "The toot." I always loved the way she said it in that accent. It was priceless. :laugh:

gldstwmn

06-28-2005, 11:05 PM

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 11:23 PM

I don't fault any of them for doing solo material. It would be boring to only work with four other musicians after a while. In general, I don't think that most of Stevie's solo stuff would have sounded right in the context of Fleetwood Mac. I've heard some demos of songs that ended up on solo albums, often recorded with Fleetwood Mac, that just didn't work (i.e. "Think About It"). By the end of "Tusk," they had developed a band sound, and some songs no longer fit the mold. I think this is true of most of the solo albums by all five. So it's completely understandable as to why they do solo work.

Having said that, I can see why the band would have had a negative reaction to what Stevie was doing. The others' solo albums were projects that enabled them to work with other musicians and maybe do things that they wouldn't with Fleetwood Mac. Stevie was going for a second career. Plus, that in her mind her solo success gave her power within the group probably rubbed them the wrong way. And, I have to be honest, her Mac contributions from "Tango" through the box set seem like a bunch of left overs.

SteveMacD

06-28-2005, 11:28 PM

I cut the woman some slack when it comes to the early nineties period. She had to contend with leaving the band on less than good terms, yet another drug addiction, a declining career, and unfulfilling musical work. She may sound bitter or bitchy here and there, but what human being wouldn't be like that when all that stuff is going on in your life?
Well, Mick Fleetwood certainly wasn't being negative during that time, and he too was going through drug addiction, defections from his band, a declining career, and unfulfilling musical work. Oh, and don't forget, he also had a divorce in there. Yet he played on, smiling all the while, saying only glowing things about his former band mates. And somehow, he's the bad guy? :shrug:

sparky

06-28-2005, 11:52 PM

And, I have to be honest, her Mac contributions from "Tango" through the box set seem like a bunch of left overs.
:nod:
Beyond rewarming.

paperflowers

06-29-2005, 12:25 AM

Many people think La Nicks joined FM to gain stardom, used LB as a crafter for his work, contributed nothing musically to FM, and/or saved much of her better songs for her solo career, esp. in the TITN era. I do not think that, but you asked so that is some insight.

I really deplore the Lindsey vs Stevie argument but I'm gonna jump into the fray a bit. They are both BRATS, okay! John is the only member of the band of any era you care to discuss that was truly loyal. He could have left FM at any point, he is a master and any band would be proud as hell to have him.

Now having said that, I don’t blame Stevie one bit for "scheming" to have a solo career when everyone else was treating her so poorly. It had to be pure hell in that studio for tusk. I think the bands attitude propelled her to see if she had the stuff in her to make it as a solo artist. I remember an interview during the Belladonna era where she compares herself to a "baby egg" and that the band protected (code for condescended) her. I think she wanted to prove to herself that she was a creative force and that she didn’t need Lindsey or the FM machine behind her to make a great album. Did Lindsey not also do a solo album during this period? why is that not considered "scheming"? Why is everything he did not considered having a hidden agenda? Cus imo he had one just as much as she did. We all know that Tusk is Liddy's and how he pretty much pitched a fit to get his way on that. The other members of the band (including Stevie) went along with him out of a loyalty to him along with a recognition of his talent, even though they didn’t like the idea.

I also don't blame her for her snarky comments during the Klonipin period either. Partly because I cut her some slack just as I do for Lindsey during the Tusk period. Also I think she felt betrayed by Mick’s book and Lindsey’s leaving the band. I would be snarky too.

Johnny Stew

06-29-2005, 12:25 AM

And, I have to be honest, her Mac contributions from "Tango" through the box set seem like a bunch of left overs.I quite like 'em (especially "When I See You Again," "No Questions Asked," "Freedom" and "Paper Doll") -- big surprise, huh? :laugh:

Interestingly enough, in Rolling Stone's review of 'Behind The Mask' (which was posted on the Post-Rumours Forum), Stevie was praised for the growth in her songwriting (as was Christine). :shrug:

paperflowers

06-29-2005, 12:30 AM

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 12:33 AM

I quite like 'em (especially "When I See You Again," "No Questions Asked," "Freedom" and "Paper Doll") -- big surprise, huh? :laugh:

Interestingly enough, in Rolling Stone's review of 'Behind The Mask' (which was posted on the Post-Rumours Forum), Stevie was praised for the growth in her songwriting (as was Christine). :shrug:

Me too - I like her in this time period though it is not my fav. overall. I also think that her BTM stuf and NQA suffer from horrid production, which maybe was her fault or the "whatever" effect she described from the Klonopin. But, to each their own :cool: I also saw the BTM concert in Dallas and she and they were GREAT!

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 12:53 AM

I also think that her BTM stuf and NQA suffer from horrid production, which maybe was her fault or the "whatever" effect she described from the Klonopin.
The production WAS horrid. I think "Freedom," "Hard Feelings," and "When It Comes To Love" could have been GREAT songs, but the over-production totally killed them. Also, I have issues with Rick Vito's guitar tone on that album. They should definately used a different producer.

My issue with Stevie during this time is that her material was just not up to what I would expect from her. I think her voice was solid on BTM, so that's not an issue for me. But you have to admit that there were better songs on OSOTM than "Freedom" or "Affairs..." What totally gets me is that she decided to record "Whole Lotta Trouble" as a solo artist. Considering that she was in a band once known for being the best British blues band ever, a band with three British blues legends and a third veteran of John Mayall, who could play a Peter Green song note-for-note, I can't imagine what was going through her head when she decided to record her first quasi-blues song as a solo artist. Yeah, she's a blonde alright! THAT song would have been SOOOO much better as a Fleetwood Mac song, and it would have fit that incarnation's idiom to a tee.

Johnny Stew

06-29-2005, 12:59 AM

I also think that her BTM stuf and NQA suffer from horrid production, which maybe was her fault or the "whatever" effect she described from the Klonopin.Oh, the production on many of the songs from that era definitely did them a great disservice. They're not as "timeless" as the songs that came before them.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 01:00 AM

Did Lindsey not also do a solo album during this period? why is that not considered "scheming"?
Mick had one, too. The difference is that "The Visitor" and "Law And Order" were done as side projects where they were experimenting with different things that might not work so well in the context of Fleetwood Mac, although Lindsey's "Trouble" would have been a GREAT song for "Mirage," but that's really the only mainstream song on the album. "Belladonna" was the beginning of Stevie's second career. It's a scale thing.

paperflowers

06-29-2005, 01:05 AM

Mick had one, too. The difference is that "The Visitor" and "Law And Order" were done as side projects where they were experimenting with different things that might not work so well in the context of Fleetwood Mac, although Lindsey's "Trouble" would have been a GREAT song for "Mirage," but that's really the only mainstream song on the album. "Belladonna" was the beginning of Stevie's second career. It's a scale thing.

Did he (Lindsey) call it a side project at the time? I'm honestly asking or not tring to pick a fight.
Stevie wanted to have two carrers going of that I have no doubt. She wanted Belladonna to be huge but that doesnt make her wrong.

Johnny Stew

06-29-2005, 01:12 AM

The production WAS horrid. I think "Freedom," "Hard Feelings," and "When It Comes To Love" could have been GREAT songs, but the over-production totally killed them. They should definately used a different producer. Yet, oddly enough, "As Long As You Follow" (also produced by Ladanyi) is one of their best sounding songs, to my ears. The production is dead-on. Not sure what went wrong with 'BTM.' Maybe it was in the mixing.

My issue with Stevie during this time is that her material was just not up to what I would expect from her. I think her voice was solid on BTM, so that's not an issue for me. But you have to admit that there were better songs on OSOTM than "Freedom" or "Affairs..."I quite like "Affairs," but it's not in the top half of my "favorites"... but "Freedom," on the other hand, is. I just can't get enough of that song.

What totally gets me is that she decided to record "Whole Lotta Trouble" as a solo artist. I can't imagine what was going through her head when she decided to record her first quasi-blues song as a solo artist.I've often wondered if perhaps she feared that, despite how much she loved the song, Fleetwood Mac might not have been too keen to do it... and then it would have been left hanging.
She's talked about how she learned that FM's choices regarding which of her songs they should record and/or include on an album, didn't always reflect what she would have chosen. So it might have been a case of, "hmm, if I don't do this now, and Fleetwood Mac passes on it, then it's going to languish in the archives... so I better just do it now!"

For the record, I think the album version isn't the best... but I love Tom Lord-Alge's remix.

Johnny Stew

06-29-2005, 01:22 AM

Did he (Lindsey) call it a side project at the time? I'm honestly asking or not tring to pick a fight.I don't think it would have been a "side project" if 'Law & Order' had hit really big. It was promoted with videos and magazine articles and TV appearances... was definitely more than just an, "oh, I decided to tinker around in the studio to see what I'd come up with, but I'm not really looking to sell many copies" kind of thing.

But it was a crap-shoot... Lindsey's project could have been monster, and Stevie's could have simply done modest business. It just happened that it went the other way around.

paperflowers

06-29-2005, 01:32 AM

desertangel

06-29-2005, 01:38 AM

Stepping into the Stevie Nicks Sycology Korner:

I won't pretend to know how Stevie feels being in Fleetwood Mac and not play a real instrument or know as much about the dynamics of music as the rest of them. She probably knows more about the dynamics of music than I do and I've tried, studied and tried and it just doesn't work for me. I sing also and I do get kinda crazy around people who start talking musical algebra. Would I get wicked crazy if I were around it all the time? Perhaps. Particularly because I have tried so hard and that part of my brain is very lazy. Would I run to a solo career because of it? I never looked at it that way, but it makes more sense now that I have. Probably.

And about that sadistic thing where some people might feel compelled to bop Stevie over the head for unexplained reasons or something... I can identify with that one. What causes it? Wish I knew. If I had to guess it would be nature/nurture. I know sometimes people (myself included) want to bop my mom over the head and I think she and I are more alike than either of us care to admit. Grams was the same way but for opposite reasons. Do we know Stevie's mom well enough other than to say she is a nice woman? Probably not. So there's not enough information to say that's it for sure.

Exit, Stage Left...

Laura

darklinensuit

06-29-2005, 02:22 AM

I quite like "Affairs," but it's not in the top half of my "favorites"... but "Freedom," on the other hand, is. I just can't get enough of that song.

AOTH is one of her worst releases, but I think Freedom is great. Talk about a song that could kick but live.

- Jake

SapphireSister

06-29-2005, 02:50 AM

Freedeom is torture ;)

sparky

06-29-2005, 08:14 AM

AOTH is one of her worst releases, but I think Freedom is great. Talk about a song that could kick but live.

- Jake

I used to like Freedom a lot - still love the music, but now I hear it and think all the vocal, except for the bridge, is a completely phoned in Klonopin moment. Could be interesting live.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 09:07 AM

I don't think it would have been a "side project" if 'Law & Order' had hit really big. It was promoted with videos and magazine articles and TV appearances... was definitely more than just an, "oh, I decided to tinker around in the studio to see what I'd come up with, but I'm not really looking to sell many copies" kind of thing.

But it was a crap-shoot... Lindsey's project could have been monster, and Stevie's could have simply done modest business. It just happened that it went the other way around.
Where I tend to disagree is that "Law & Order" wasn't a mainstream recording, save for "Trouble." It was just too quirky, especially for a member of Fleetwood Mac, at least in terms of the public's perception. "Belladonna," by comparison, was the epitome of a mainstream recording.

But, here's a quote from Lindsey posted on Madness Fades that sort of highlights what I'm talking about in the project vs. career debate:

When Eric Clapton hangs out with Mick or us he’s always saying, “God, I wish I was in a band again.” That’s because the burden is all on him. It’s just not the same when, as a leader, you’re paying people a certain amount each week to play with you. The balance of power is not the same, and it drains you. Bob Welch had a couple of successful solo albums, but now I think he misses being in a group where people will give you honest feedback, tell you when you’ve got your head up your ass. You need that thing when other people in the band have as much at stake as you do. We could certainly all do solo albums, but that wouldn’t be the death of Fleetwood Mac. There are still good creative ties and I think we all still enjoy - and need - the feedback we get from the group situation. I can’t imagine not feeling that way anytime soon

trackaghost

06-29-2005, 09:15 AM

Having said that, I can see why the band would have had a negative reaction to what Stevie was doing. The others' solo albums were projects that enabled them to work with other musicians and maybe do things that they wouldn't with Fleetwood Mac. Stevie was going for a second career. Plus, that in her mind her solo success gave her power within the group probably rubbed them the wrong way. And, I have to be honest, her Mac contributions from "Tango" through the box set seem like a bunch of left overs.

I think it's well established that Stevie wanted a solo career so that she could release more than three songs every two years. Stevie isn't experimental, she didn't need an outlet for that side of her, she just needed a way to release more songs. So a solo career makes total sense.
As for the Tango stuff, aside from the fact that I like all three of Stevie's Tango contributions, I really don't believe she considered them leftovers. She could have given the band older songs or even tried again to record tracks like Smile At You, I don't think she was in need of material to offer the band because of her solo career.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 09:27 AM

I think it's well established that Stevie wanted a solo career so that she could release more than three songs every two years. Stevie isn't experimental, she didn't need an outlet for that side of her, she just needed a way to release more songs.
On the other hand, she COULD have had more than three songs released every few years if she would have edited her songs down a bit. Her five songs on "Tusk" took up more space than Lindsey's nine.

Livia

06-29-2005, 10:04 AM

What totally gets me is that she decided to record "Whole Lotta Trouble" as a solo artist. Considering that she was in a band once known for being the best British blues band ever, a band with three British blues legends and a third veteran of John Mayall, who could play a Peter Green song note-for-note, I can't imagine what was going through her head when she decided to record her first quasi-blues song as a solo artist. Yeah, she's a blonde alright! THAT song would have been SOOOO much better as a Fleetwood Mac song, and it would have fit that incarnation's idiom to a tee.

I have to respectfully disagree on that - the horns MAKE that song for me...FM would never have allowed the horns...synthesized or real! :rolleyes: I also think she should put WLT back in the setlist!

chiliD

06-29-2005, 10:08 AM

I have to respectfully disagree on that - the horns MAKE that song for me...FM would never have allowed the horns...synthesized or real! :rolleyes: I also think she should put WLT back in the setlist!

OMIGOD, those horns just make the song unlistenable for me. I'm with SMcD, that should've been a song for the BTM era FMac. :nod:

gldstwmn

06-29-2005, 10:24 AM

It Tusk is Liddy's and how he pretty much pitched a fit to get his way on that. The other members of the band (including Stevie) went along with him out of a loyalty to him along with a recognition of his talent, even though they didn’t like the idea.

I think they were also afraid if they didn't go along, he'd end up leaving.

gldstwmn

06-29-2005, 10:25 AM

I quite like 'em (especially "When I See You Again," "No Questions Asked," "Freedom" and "Paper Doll") -- big surprise, huh? :laugh:

Don't forget Affairs Of The Heart. :wavey:

trackaghost

06-29-2005, 10:26 AM

On the other hand, she COULD have had more than three songs released every few years if she would have edited her songs down a bit. Her five songs on "Tusk" took up more space than Lindsey's nine.

Yeah but come on, Lindsey's songs on Tusk are short! Some of them are just over a minute.
I can imagine that conversation: "Stevie, we want more of your songs on the record, but can you cut six minutes from each of them?"
Sara would just be "wait a minute baby" and then fade out...

gldstwmn

06-29-2005, 10:33 AM

Freedeom is torture ;)

That's the current administration's MO, yes. :laugh:

henryscutter

06-29-2005, 11:54 AM

I certainly did, & I wish fans would take us two a lot more seriously!! & reach deep within themselves & get to the root of that sadism & stare it in the face & say loudly & proudly to themselves: "Yeah, so I wanna bop Stevie in the face, sure. But I'm still a good person!! I also want to crack Mick's knees the next time he announces a business venture."

Sadism In Action: Remember backstage somewhere during the 1982 tour, Lindsey stuck out his foot as Stevie was walking by, & it launched her forward?
Good I dont feel so bad about wanting to bludgeon Lindsey with his own guitar when I watch or read one of his interviews :lol:

dissention

06-29-2005, 12:05 PM

Well, Mick Fleetwood certainly wasn't being negative during that time, and he too was going through drug addiction, defections from his band, a declining career, and unfulfilling musical work. Oh, and don't forget, he also had a divorce in there. Yet he played on, smiling all the while, saying only glowing things about his former band mates. And somehow, he's the bad guy? :shrug:

Mick Fleetwood isn't Stevie Nicks and Stevie Nicks isn't Mick Fleetwood. You expect them to act and deal with things in the same manner? He really had nothing but glowing things to say in that **** book of his, eh? Trashing Lindsey at every chance he got, writing admittedly false things and passing them off as fact, etc. I'd call his not allowing Stevie to use Silver Springs as another pretty good example of him being an utter asshole, but that's just me. Point at the behavior of Mick and the others if you feel the need, but don't whitewash their behavior to make Stevie look bad.

dissention

06-29-2005, 12:08 PM

Interestingly enough, in Rolling Stone's review of 'Behind The Mask' (which was posted on the Post-Rumours Forum), Stevie was praised for the growth in her songwriting (as was Christine). :shrug:

I can completely see it with Christine, but not with Stevie. I think that critic mistook the lack of her usual mysticism and overly flowery lyrics as somehow constituting an advancement for her in the craft of songwriting.

sparky

06-29-2005, 12:31 PM

I think it's well established that Stevie wanted a solo career so that she could release more than three songs every two years.

That's the ARTIST argument for a solo career.

I think everyone overlooks the fact that there were big business influences around Stevie wanting her to go solo. It is well documented that Iovine believed she should just be a solo artist. If I am not mistaken, he was a partner, along with Paul Fishkin, in Modern Records (the vanity label specifically created for Stevie). The compelling financial interest both of these men had in her solo career is as plain as the shawl on Stevie's back. I haven't heard anything about Fishkin encouraging her to just pursue a solo career...but he was pretty tight with Iovine, so it stands to reason. Also he was yet another of Stevie's paramours, so you do the math.
The money to be made off of her as solo artist was, at the time, pretty impressive. I can only imagine the amount of pressure placed on her by those who would benefit from her solo career. Considering her spending habits, the money didn't hurt her either.

David

06-29-2005, 12:39 PM

I can completely see it with Christine, but not with Stevie. I think that critic mistook the lack of her usual mysticism and overly flowery lyrics as somehow constituting an advancement for her in the craft of songwriting.The craft of criticism at Rolling Stone magazine has taken a widely recognized dive during the past fifteen years or so.

It's just sad to think that the magazine was once a bastion of incisive, hip cultural criticism with a personal voice -- influenced by Pauline Kael's critical forays into the sociology of the audience -- yet has devolved into meaningless & facile gimcrackery that isn't worth preserving.

The days of those great Rolling Stone critics -- Stephen Holden, Steve Pond, John Swenson, Cameron Crowe, Greil Marcus, Robert Christgau, J.D. Considine, Ben Fong-Torres, Dave Marsh, Jon Pareles -- are long gone (even though a few of those writers have hung around the building, submitting an occasional, bloodless writeup).

sarafield

06-29-2005, 12:44 PM

Interestingly, have you ever watched the Tusk doc. outtakes - they are so rude to Stevie it is almost embarrasing to watch. I mean who would want to be around that when they are selling well on their own. I sure would not.

Could someone who's seen that give me a couple of examples? I've never seen the documentary, and am interested in what exactly the band members did to her. I do remember her saying that they told her not to talk to the press because she "sounded stupid." :eek:

sparky

06-29-2005, 12:52 PM

Interestingly, have you ever watched the Tusk doc. outtakes - they are so rude to Stevie it is almost embarrasing to watch.

Who do I have to f*ck around here to see these things ? I have never even heard about this thing having out-takes, let alone them being posted or available anywhere.

dissention

06-29-2005, 01:17 PM

Who do I have to f*ck around here to see these things ? I have never even heard about this thing having out-takes, let alone them being posted or available anywhere.

You could start with me.

JazmenFlowers

06-29-2005, 01:23 PM

You could start with me.

add me to the list. lol

Johnny Stew

06-29-2005, 02:39 PM

Where I tend to disagree is that "Law & Order" wasn't a mainstream recording, save for "Trouble." It was just too quirky, especially for a member of Fleetwood Mac, at least in terms of the public's perception. "Belladonna," by comparison, was the epitome of a mainstream recording.Lindsey's material on 'Tusk' wasn't mainstream either... I don't think anyone expected anything too mainstream from him after that album.
And, again, it sure wasn't promoted any differently than mainstream releases.

I'm not disparaging Lindsey, I just feel that he had higher hopes for his solo albums, than for them to have only fringe appeal.

David

06-29-2005, 02:56 PM

Lindsey's material on 'Tusk' wasn't mainstream either... I don't think anyone expected anything too mainstream from him after that album. And, again, it sure wasn't promoted any differently than mainstream releases. I'm not disparaging Lindsey, I just feel that he had higher hopes for his solo albums, than for them to have only fringe appeal.Lindsey likes to sell millions. But if he wants to sell millions, he should read Mencken & not record songs like "Bwana."

You can't eat your cake & have it, too, Bucko Buckingham!

paperflowers

06-29-2005, 03:21 PM

Mick Fleetwood isn't Stevie Nicks and Stevie Nicks isn't Mick Fleetwood. You expect them to act and deal with things in the same manner? He really had nothing but glowing things to say in that **** book of his, eh? Trashing Lindsey at every chance he got, writing admittedly false things and passing them off as fact, etc. I'd call his not allowing Stevie to use Silver Springs as another pretty good example of him being an utter asshole, but that's just me. Point at the behavior of Mick and the others if you feel the need, but don't whitewash their behavior to make Stevie look bad.

YEP! Mick was no angel. Even he admits he was disloyal or dishonest in that book (I can't remember exactly how he characterized it) What we have to remember is that they were all living in a pressure cooker and they reacted in differing ways and none of them always made the right decision.

I have read the book and was under whelmed by the "bombshells", of course I already knew all the highlights before reading it. I cannot remember Mick ever faulting Lindsey talent but more his character. He certainly made disparaging comments about both Stevie and Lindsey but he also told that creepy story about him and his phone buddy. At this point Mick was broke and in the depths of a pretty serious drug addiction. So human being that he is, is a tad bitter.

IMO none of them ever thought there would be a reunion or that they would ever make amends. They all thought the other members victimized them; they all had this it’s not my fault attitude. In those days FM was pretty much a laughing stock, so Mick writes this book to get out of debt and throw a few hateful spears Lindsey’s way. Lindsey in return threw some right back at him. He is not an island; he participated in the feud also. Lindsey distances himself from the entire situation, becomes the misunderstood genius and refers to Mick as a "Rockcock". Stevie pulls the accidental super star and has less than flattering things to say. What is amazing is that Mick and Lindsey ever made up. Mick sleeps with Stevie and spins this tale about Lindsey attacking Stevie, could you forgive that? Even Mick and Stevie making up is pretty amazing given his behavior with Sara (the person not the song) and the Silver Springs incident(s).

That is what makes this band so remarkable. They all have legitimate pain because of being in FM yet they got past it somehow. Many bands could not have survived the Rumours drama. Nevertheless, here they are all these years later, alive as a band (and as individuals it’s such a miracle no one OD’ed or met with some tragic mishap) They all have a sense of loyalty every one of them, Stevie most of all because she had the most viable solo career.

sparky

06-29-2005, 07:27 PM

You could start with me.

How much is a ticket to Boston ? :]

sparky

06-29-2005, 07:28 PM

add me to the list. lol

Evidently I have my work cut out for me. It's all good. Sparky has stamina.

amber

06-29-2005, 07:38 PM

Evidently I have my work cut out for me. It's all good. Sparky has stamina.
um, great, so, after you f*** all these people, and get those outtakes, send them to me, mmkay? Cause clearly there is no one eligible for me to f*** to get them, here on the gay, gay, gay, ledge. :lol: (gay!).

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 08:39 PM

Mick Fleetwood isn't Stevie Nicks and Stevie Nicks isn't Mick Fleetwood. You expect them to act and deal with things in the same manner?
I would expect them to conduct interviews with class, which wasn't the case for some members in 1993-1995.
He really had nothing but glowing things to say in that **** book of his, eh? Trashing Lindsey at every chance he got, writing admittedly false things and passing them off as fact, etc.
False things? Like the slap? I have this documentary from the BBC back in 1994 where Stevie says that she thought Lindsey was going to kill her that night, and that Lindsey probably thought he was going to kill her, and that she told him if he did kill her, if the band didn't kill him first, her family would. Now, if Mick hadn't written his book with that story included, you can bet it would have been all over the music rags, and would probably have done even more damage to their careers. The worst thing I can say is that Mick embellished what happened. And, really, what writer doesn't? But most of the information in that book had already come out in many music magazines.

As for any OTHER comments about Lindsey, let's be honest, Lindsey was the difficult person in the band. That wasn't new, or anything exclusive to Mick. Look at Christine's comments through the years about "Tusk." In hindsight, I'm sure she's grown to appreciate that work, but at the time, it seemed excessive. She still lists "Rumours" as the band's best work, in her opinion. John made comments throughout the years about how he resented Lindsey telling him how to play bass in interviews, too. Lindsey and McVie almost look like they're going to get into a fist fight in the "Tusk" doc. Hell, watch Lindsey's interactions with McVie during "Destiny Rules." HE even acknowledges that he's been the problem child of Fleetwood Mac. So, again, I think everybody is being too hard on Mick. At the very worst, he confirmed what most of us had already suspect and embellished a few thing. If anything, I was personally underwhelmed at the shock value.
I'd call his not allowing Stevie to use Silver Springs as another pretty good example of him being an utter asshole, but that's just me.
Mick had already signed an exclusive contract with the record company to put that song on the box. There was no way he could have let her use that song. His hands were tied.
Point at the behavior of Mick and the others if you feel the need, but don't whitewash their behavior to make Stevie look bad.
I'll gladly point out all of their behaviors. I never said Mick was a saint. But during that time, he seemed to conduct himself with the most class.

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 08:43 PM

. . .

Mick had already signed an exclusive contract with the record company to put that song on the box. There was no way he could have let her use that song. His hands were tied . . . .

I never heard this. Where did you hear it? What I heard was that Mick did not want her to have a song FM had worked on though it is unclear that she wanted that exact cut or if she was going to re record it, which I am unsure if she was contractually prohibited from doing once the song was finished.

Note - I am just curious and not accusing :cool:

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 08:45 PM

so Mick writes this book to get out of debt and throw a few hateful spears Lindsey’s way. Lindsey in return threw some right back at him. He is not an island; he participated in the feud also. Lindsey distances himself from the entire situation, becomes the misunderstood genius and refers to Mick as a "Rockcock".
Of course, Lindsey forgets that he too made comments that were less than positive towards the others in just about every post-Tango interview, even before he left. It seems he could dish it out, but had a hard time taking it. Although, in his defense, he does say that even he has been a "Rockcock" at times, too.
Stevie pulls the accidental super star and has less than flattering things to say. What is amazing is that Mick and Lindsey ever made up.
Yeah, when "Twisted" came out, I knew that a Mac reunion WAS going to happen, despite certain comments made afterwards.

Kelly

06-29-2005, 08:45 PM

On the Outtakes, I recall Lindsey rolling his eyes at her. Stevie also mocks him as he is turned the other way...so.....
Christine tells her basically in so many words that "they dont need her right now" sort of implying that she is getting in their way. I think that is the rudest part, IMHO because Stevie LOOKS hurt by her words.
Other than those couple, I cannot really recall anything else.

Oh, some people find it rude that LB is kissing his girlfriend in front of Stevie. I find that ridiculous...he is allowed to kiss whomever he wants and Stevie had gone through plenty of men by Tusk. So that isn't rude, imo, at all.

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 08:48 PM

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 08:50 PM

I never heard this. Where did you hear it? What I heard was that Mick did not want her to have a song FM had worked on though it is unclear that she wanted that exact cut or if she was going to re record it, which I am unsure if she was contractually prohibited from doing once the song was finished.

Note - I am just curious and not accusing :cool:
Oh, I know. There were two Rocklines in the summer of 1992. One week was Lindsey Buckingham, the next was Mick Fleetwood's Zoo. Somebody called and asked Mick about "Silver Springs" and he said that it was already under contract with the record company and that there was no way he could let her use it. He even said that "Silver Springs" was not the reason she quit the band (which she's basically confirmed in recent years). Also, he said that the story of the slapping incident was already going to be published. He just published it first.

dissention

06-29-2005, 08:51 PM

False things? Like the slap? I have this documentary from the BBC back in 1994 where Stevie says that she thought Lindsey was going to kill her that night, and that Lindsey probably thought he was going to kill her, and that she told him if he did kill her, if the band didn't kill him first, her family would. Now, if Mick hadn't written his book with that story included, you can bet it would have been all over the music rags, and would probably have done even more damage to their careers. The worst thing I can say is that Mick embellished what happened. And, really, what writer doesn't? But most of the information in that book had already come out in many music magazines.

False things? Wasn't it just last year that he admitted to putting phoney facts in the book about his own father? Not to mention the fact that he was so drugged into a stupor that all of his recollections should be taken with a whole shaker of salt.

As for any OTHER comments about Lindsey, let's be honest, Lindsey was the difficult person in the band. That wasn't new, or anything exclusive to Mick. Look at Christine's comments through the years about "Tusk." In hindsight, I'm sure she's grown to appreciate that work, but at the time, it seemed excessive. She still lists "Rumours" as the band's best work, in her opinion. John made comments throughout the years about how he resented Lindsey telling him how to play bass in interviews, too. Lindsey and McVie almost look like they're going to get into a fist fight in the "Tusk" doc. Hell, watch Lindsey's interactions with McVie during "Destiny Rules." HE even acknowledges that he's been the problem child of Fleetwood Mac. So, again, I think everybody is being too hard on Mick. At the very worst, he confirmed what most of us had already suspect and embellished a few thing. If anything, I was personally underwhelmed at the shock value.

What Mick did in his book was write about Lindsey as if he contributed nothing worthwhile to the band, while kissing the collective asses of many other members throughout.

I'll gladly point out all of their behaviors. I never said Mick was a saint. But during that time, he seemed to conduct himself with the most class.

Yeah, because we all know having class includes writing a trashy tell-all about your band while it's still together. "Class" and "Mick Fleetwood" barely belong in the same dictionary, let alone the same sentence.

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 08:52 PM

Oh, I know. There were two Rocklines in the summer of 1992. One week was Lindsey Buckingham, the next was Mick Fleetwood's Zoo. Somebody called and asked Mick about "Silver Springs" and he said that it was already under contract with the record company and that there was no way he could let her use it. He even said that "Silver Springs" was not the reason she quit the band (which she's basically confirmed in recent years). Also, he said that the story of the slapping incident was already going to be published. He just published it first.

Cool!!!!!

I wonder if shen she rejoined, she had them or Warner's stipulate that those former restrictions were released. I say this because FM obviously worked on POTU and she re recorded it. Oh to get a look at those contracts.

dissention

06-29-2005, 08:53 PM

Oh, I know. There were two Rocklines in the summer of 1992. One week was Lindsey Buckingham, the next was Mick Fleetwood's Zoo. Somebody called and asked Mick about "Silver Springs" and he said that it was already under contract with the record company and that there was no way he could let her use it. He even said that "Silver Springs" was not the reason she quit the band (which she's basically confirmed in recent years). Also, he said that the story of the slapping incident was already going to be published. He just published it first.

And if Stevie was telling the truth in the Nicky Horne interview from 1991, he was still a complete asshole about the song by ignoring her requests and not even bothering to get back to her about it.

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 08:54 PM

And if Stevie was telling the truth in the Nicky Horne interview from 1991, he was still a complete asshole about the song by ignoring her requests and not even bothering to get back to her.

Interestingly, she could have offered to buy it back :shrug: She says "let me have" or something like that, but that does not equate to a freebie. I think things were so bad by then though that that was the icing on the bad feelings cake :nod:

ontheEdgeof17

06-29-2005, 08:55 PM

I think things were so bad by then though that that was the icing on the bad feelings cake :nod:

mmmmm.....cake.

dissention

06-29-2005, 08:56 PM

Interestingly, she could have offered to buy it back :shrug:

How do we know she didn't?

She says "let me have" or something like that, but that does not equate to a freebie. I think things were so bad by then though that that was the icing on the bad feelings cake :nod:

I agree, but it still doesn't excuse the way he treated her in regards to the song if what she's saying is true.

strandinthewind

06-29-2005, 08:59 PM

. . . I agree, but it still doesn't excuse the way he treated her in regards to the song if what she's saying is true.

oh I agree - I think mick saw his kingdom failing and the drugs caused a panic. Thankk goodness they are all apparently out of that mess.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 09:08 PM

False things? Wasn't it just last year that he admitted to putting phoney facts in the book about his own father? Not to mention the fact that he was so drugged into a stupor that all of his recollections should be taken with a whole shaker of salt.
Maybe. But, again, I have seen, heard, or read accounts by others in the band as well as articles in magazines, and much of what was written about the band was confirmed. As for the facts about his father, his father came off looking like a hero. In any event, I wasn't reading his book to learn more about his dad. I wanted to learn more about Fleetwood Mac. Just about everything I've read in his book about the BAND had already been published. The only new facts were either things I suspected anyway, or were embellished.
What Mick did in his book was write about Lindsey as if he contributed nothing worthwhile to the band, while kissing the collective asses of many other members throughout.
I totally didn't get that. Maybe he wasn't as focused on Lindsey, but Lindsey by his own admission was more reclusive than the others. It's hard to write about somebody, regardless of brilliance, if that person isn't really socializing with the others. Hence, Lindsey wasn't going to be in a lot of the stories. He was just too distant.
Yeah, because we all know having class includes writing a trashy tell-all about your band while it's still together.
LOL! We're talking about the same band that recorded "Rumours." Okay, Stevie and Lindsey write tell-all songs, using such classy lines as "packing up, shacking up's all you want to do," and that's art. Mick writes a book where most of the information had already come out, and that's trash. Hmmm, smells like hypocrisy to me.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 09:18 PM

I wonder if shen she rejoined, she had them or Warner's stipulate that those former restrictions were released. I say this because FM obviously worked on POTU and she re recorded it. Oh to get a look at those contracts.
There are a few things here:
1. "Silver Springs" had been released by Fleetwood Mac, which wasn't true of POTU. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Stevie actually wanted to use the Fleetwood Mac version of "Silver Springs" for "Timespace," which would have made things much more difficult.

2. The box set was long out of print when she rejoined. In any event, the contract between Mick and Warner's had already been fulfilled, and I suspect that the song was free to be used as they wanted at that point.

3. When she rejoined, Stevie was on Warner's roster, and a song written by a Warner's artist, being performed by a Warner's band for an upcoming Warner's release probably made it much easier for them.

SteveMacD

06-29-2005, 09:34 PM

And if Stevie was telling the truth in the Nicky Horne interview from 1991, he was still a complete asshole about the song by ignoring her requests and not even bothering to get back to her about it.
Well, one thing is for sure, she had to have lied at some point about her reasons for leaving Fleetwood Mac. In 1991, she said it was "Silver Springs." In 1997, she said it was because she didn't want to be in the band without Lindsey. You want to know what I suspect? I think it was all hogwash. I think she realized that she couldn't be a member of Fleetwood Mac and NOT tour, while still touring as a solo artist. On the one hand, she didn't want to be sole singer from the "Rumours" band still fronting the group. On the other, she didn't want to quit touring. Mick would put a ton of pressure on her to tour if she stayed. Hey, that's why Christine quit. But unlike Christine, Stevie had no intentions of retiring. And, she couldn't just quit, since things were still friendly between everybody. So she asked for "Silver Springs" knowing full well Mick wasn't going to give it to her and made a public spectacle of the situation that gave her a reason to get out of the band.

David

06-30-2005, 12:09 AM

Yeah, when "Twisted" came out, I knew that a Mac reunion WAS going to happen, despite certain comments made afterwards.Oh, come now, Mr. In-The-Know . . . in April 1996, not even all the members of the band were sure the reunion was going to happen. It was only a possibility at that point.

KarmaContestant

06-30-2005, 12:27 AM

Mick sleeps with Stevie and spins this tale about Lindsey attacking Stevie, could you forgive that?

Sorry guys, I've read all the post up to the current time, and I didn't see where anyone really refuted the above comment. If I missed it, please accept my apology....but I have to say.... Mick did NOT 'spin a tale' or otherwise make up the story about Lindsey attacking Stevie. It really happened. Otherwise, why would Stevie herself have corroborated this story? Live? In person? On a recording? Broadcast on the radio airwaves? I've heard her talk about it! I have the clips from the interview! I'm happy to share them with anyone who wants to hear.

:shrug:

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 12:28 AM

Stevie had no intentions of retiring. And, she couldn't just quit, since things were still friendly between everybody. So she asked for "Silver Springs" knowing full well Mick wasn't going to give it to her and made a public spectacle of the situation that gave her a reason to get out of the band.I have no doubt that Stevie knows exactly how to get what she wants... but I don't think her request for "Silver Springs" was a calculated way to get out of the band.
I really do think that she was hoping to save it from a life of b-side obscurity, and to put it on a greatest hits album that was sure to earn some extra cash for her mother (who we know benefits financially from that song).

I honestly think that if the "Silver Springs" thing had happened ten years prior or ten years later, it wouldn't have been such a big deal. She'd have been angry and then gotten over it. But given that this woman was already in an extremely fragile mental state, and damn near at breakdown point, she took this as the ultimate betrayal. In her mind, it was an all-out feud between her and "Mr. Fleetwood."

Again, it's extremely impressive (which I know you agree) that she was able to come back from all of that -- realizing she had a problem, dealing with it, and then making amends with all of the people she hurt during that time.
That is someone worthy of respect.

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 12:31 AM

Mick did NOT 'spin a tale' or otherwise make up the story about Lindsey attacking Stevie. It really happened. Otherwise, why would Stevie herself have corroborated this story?I think the main problem is that Mick made it sound like Lindsey was the one and only guilty party in that incident. Stevie has stated, on many occasions, that she attacked Lindsey just as aggressively as he attacked her. That she was just as guilty.
Mick didn't make it sound that way at all.

KarmaContestant

06-30-2005, 12:32 AM

strandinthewind

06-30-2005, 12:33 AM

I think the main problem is that Mick made it sound like Lindsey was the one and only guilty party in that incident. Stevie has stated, on many occasions, that she attacked Lindsey just as aggressively as he attacked her. That she was just as guilty.
Mick didn't make it sound that way at all.

Well, I am unsure she said exactly that - though she did say she attacked him - but she did not throw him on the hood of a car, etc. In the end, I think it was a bad scene and seeing as I am from the South, LB was wrong because, outside of medical necessity, no gentleman ever hits a woman no matter what. Others may differ in that opinion, but I never will.

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 12:41 AM

Well, I am unsure she said exactly that - though she did say she attacked him - but she did not throw him on the hood of a car, etc. In the end, I think it was a bad scene and seeing as I am from the South, LB was wrong because, outside of medical necessity, no gentleman ever hits a woman no matter what. Others may differ in that opinion, but I never will.I don't disagree that Lindsey went too far. He could have restrained her fairly easy, I'd think, given that she's considerably shorter than he is. Or he could have simply gotten into his car and left.
It's NEVER right for a man to attack a woman, in my opinion. Well, ok, if Stevie had pulled a gun... or the stiletto from her garter.... then it would have been all right!
Otherwise, no.

But the fact remains, that Stevie did attack him/lunge at him. She provoked him, so she's not entirely innocent in that scenario.

paperflowers

06-30-2005, 02:19 AM

I think the main problem is that Mick made it sound like Lindsey was the one and only guilty party in that incident. Stevie has stated, on many occasions, that she attacked Lindsey just as aggressively as he attacked her. That she was just as guilty.
Mick didn't make it sound that way at all.

Mick skewed the entire incident to color Lindsey as the bad guy. I believe that Stevie said something like "I just went after him" when he said he would not tour. I believe this interview I mentioned was in the mist of her Klonipin days. For all the fueding and her mental state she still didn't let it go so far as to paint Lindsey as a woman beater.

Edit: and by the way I think Lindsey did go too far I don't care where your from.

SteveMacD

06-30-2005, 03:11 AM

Oh, come now, Mr. In-The-Know . . . in April 1996, not even all the members of the band were sure the reunion was going to happen. It was only a possibility at that point.
I'm just saying that if Mick, Stevie, and Lindsey could work together, a reunion was going to happen. Considering all the crap those three in particular went through, there was no way it wasn't going to happen.

SteveMacD

06-30-2005, 03:43 AM

Mick skewed the entire incident to color Lindsey as the bad guy.
Lindsey DID fly off the handle that day. When John McVie says "I think you'd better leave," things had to have gotten pretty crazy. And, John confirms that he said that to Lindsey.

Was the incident skewed? Probably. But, if I were to put myself in Mick's shoes, I probably would not have been objective, either. Mick takes a lot of pride in Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey quitting had to be very hard for Mick. Lindsey talks a lot about the sacrifices he made for Fleetwood Mac. The flip side is that he got a LOT of creative freedom in the process. I'm sure there had to be some resentment on Mick's part, too, that here they gave this man almost everything he asked for, and he still flaked out on them. Plus, the tour had already been planned, so there were contractual obligations for which the band would be liable if the tour didn't happen. And, Mick even admits in the book that he needed to tour to get his financial house back in order. At the end of the day, he was writing from his perspective. To expect him JUST to write a factual book without really talking about how he experienced everything is unrealistic. The title IS called "MY Life And Adventures In Fleetwood Mac" after all.
For all the fueding and her mental state she still didn't let it go so far as to paint Lindsey as a woman beater.
I know many will disagree, but I don't think a simple slap qualifies as a beating. Is it in bad taste? Absolutely. But that isn't what I'd call being a woman beater. He was hardly going Ike Turner on her. Ever see that episode of Cheers where Sam and Diane keep slapping each other? Hardly violence. And, if Mick had wanted to paint him as a woman beater, all he would have had to do was get some choice quotes for Carol Harris, Lindsey's ex who claims Lindsey beat her. I think Mick's main motivation was to show that not only did Lindsey not want to be in Fleetwood Mac, but that he was raging to get out, to the point where he just snapped at EVERYBODY. Given their history, it was especially personal between Stevie and Lindsey.

paperflowers

06-30-2005, 04:10 AM

Lindsey DID fly off the handle that day. When John McVie says "I think you'd better leave," things had to have gotten pretty crazy. And, John confirms that he said that to Lindsey.

Was the incident skewed? Probably. But, if I were to put myself in Mick's shoes, I probably would not have been objective, either. Mick takes a lot of pride in Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey quitting had to be very hard for Mick. Lindsey talks a lot about the sacrifices he made for Fleetwood Mac. The flip side is that he got a LOT of creative freedom in the process. I'm sure there had to be some resentment on Mick's part, too, that here they gave this man almost everything he asked for, and he still flaked out on them. Plus, the tour had already been planned, so there were contractual obligations for which the band would be liable if the tour didn't happen. And, Mick even admits in the book that he needed to tour to get his financial house back in order. At the end of the day, he was writing from his perspective. To expect him JUST to write a factual book without really talking about how he experienced everything is unrealistic. The title IS called "MY Life And Adventures In Fleetwood Mac" after all.

I know many will disagree, but I don't think a simple slap qualifies as a beating. Is it in bad taste? Absolutely. But that isn't what I'd call being a woman beater. He was hardly going Ike Turner on her. Ever see that episode of Cheers where Sam and Diane keep slapping each other? Hardly violence. And, if Mick had wanted to paint him as a woman beater, all he would have had to do was get some choice quotes for Carol Harris, Lindsey's ex who claims Lindsey beat her. I think Mick's main motivation was to show that not only did Lindsey not want to be in Fleetwood Mac, but that he was raging to get out, to the point where he just snapped at EVERYBODY. Given their history, it was especially personal between Stevie and Lindsey.

ITA you just said it way better than I :) Except maybe the Sam and Diane comparison I think it wasn't just a slap slick fight they had.
My real point is that no one is blameless thats all.

glitter_fades

06-30-2005, 05:09 AM

Kelly

06-30-2005, 05:59 AM

Stevie does say that that she ran over and "attacked him" in the house. She takes the blame too. It is very clear that she does not harbor any ill feelings or fear of him from that fight. She only brought it up when she was angry at him. The quotes from the early nineties..when they were hardly speaking, are much different from what she says now about the incident. Stevie does not strike me as a woman who would call up a man who just violently threw her on a hood of a car and apologize to him and then ask him if he wants her to quit the band too and do BN. If Lindsey pushed her down on the car, which I think he did, Stevie apparently believes she provoked him. She hasn't painted him as the aggressor or bad guy in the incident since her klonopin days. Stevie was in a bad place around the time of this fight and the idea of Lindsey actually not touring probably scared her to death. That is why she got just as crazy as he did. He was cutting the last cord and Stevie really hit rock bottom in the years to come. Lindsey finally leaving the band affected Stevie more than most people want to admit....I think alot of what happened in the years after was related to his leaving.

BTW..John asking Lindsey to leave does not mean that Stevie was not just as involved or responsible for the altercation. It was obviously a fuc@@ed up time for all of them but I hate when Lindsey is painted as the only one at fault.

sarafield

06-30-2005, 07:05 AM

Thank you Kelly and others who provided some tidbits from the Tusk doc. about the rudeness to Stevie!

I checked the Fleetwood book out of the library last night after reading this thread... I haven't gotten to the fight yet, but I could swear he calls the line in GYOW "cracking up, shackin' up" instead of "packin' up." Another thing that struck me was how disposable everyone's relationship seemed back then. Jenny has an affair with Bob W... oh well. Let's all hang out by the pool together. CM is living with the lighting guy, then meets Dennis Wilson, lighting guy moves out and Dennis moves in. Mick is married and dating Stevie, then decides he likes Sara R. so he moves in with her. Then he says "I stopped visiting Stevie so much" as if they were still sometimes sleeping together. Then he has a phone affair and tells Sara he's in love with someone else, but when the someone else turns out to be fat, he apologizes and gets back together with Sara. (He must be hung like a horse because I can't imagine why all these women would continue to see him after all this humiliation.)

trackaghost

06-30-2005, 07:07 AM

Stevie also dated Curry Grant.
I wonder if Chris and Stevie ever compared notes...

dissention

06-30-2005, 07:27 AM

Well, I am unsure she said exactly that - though she did say she attacked him - but she did not throw him on the hood of a car, etc. In the end, I think it was a bad scene and seeing as I am from the South, LB was wrong because, outside of medical necessity, no gentleman ever hits a woman no matter what. Others may differ in that opinion, but I never will.

Mick is the one who said that Lindsey threw her over the hood of a car. I have a bit of a hard time swallowing that, so, like I said, I take what he says in that book with a whole shaker of salt. I'm not excusing any of what Lindsey did because I find it reprehensible for a man to lay his hand on a woman, but I'm certainly not going to put stock in any of what Mick Fleetwood has to say about that particular incident. Wasn't it Stevie who supposedly apologized to Lindsey for what Mick wrote? Surely that has something to do with Mick embellishing the incident to make the book sound more juicy. The guy was coked out of his gourd for years, yet he still has a good enough memory to give us a play-by-play in his book that supposedly reprints what was said verbatim? I think not.

David

06-30-2005, 08:52 AM

Surely that has something to do with Mick embellishing the incident to make the book sound more juicy. The guy was coked out of his gourd for years, yet he still has a good enough memory to give us a play-by-play in his book that supposedly reprints what was said verbatim?What puzzles me is whether Stephen Davis was also bombed out of his gourd. Davis should know better than to plagiarize dozens of other magazine articles, lifting phrases, descriptions & even whole paragraphs from old magazines & plopping them down in Mick's book as if he had just written them.

What was that all about? "Creativity"?

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 01:29 PM

Nobody ever responded to the poster who made a very interesting point in another thread where this topic was discussed. That person showed a quote from a Lindsey interview which said something about Stevie calling him up after the fight they had. Only the people who were there know what really happened that day, but the fact remains she called him after it happened and what she wanted to talk about is very interesting. She wanted to know if he wanted her to quit the band, too. She said if she quit would he want to do Buckingham Nicks again. Seems like she didn't suffer so much injury from his abuse that she was afraid to call and offer to quit the band and go off with him and work together. Why doesn't anyone ever mention this little tidbit when the topic of that fight is discussed?I remember reading that post, where someone (I forget who now) recalled Lindsey saying that Stevie had phoned him after the fight about her quiting the band and doing another Buckingham Nicks album, but I don't remember seeing a direct quote from Lindsey about it. Could you post it for me?

I'm definitely curious to read it, because the only time I ever remember Lindsey mentioning Stevie broaching the subject of a second Buckingham Nicks, was in that 1987 Cream magazine article. But that interview was conducted before he left the band. It's hard to follow this band sometimes!

Rumour0323

06-30-2005, 02:37 PM

I remember reading that post, where someone (I forget who now) recalled Lindsey saying that Stevie had phoned him after the fight about her quiting the band and doing another Buckingham Nicks album, but I don't remember seeing a direct quote from Lindsey about it. Could you post it for me?

I'm definitely curious to read it, because the only time I ever remember Lindsey mentioning Stevie broaching the subject of a second Buckingham Nicks, was in that 1987 Cream magazine article. But that interview was conducted before he left the band. It's hard to follow this band sometimes!

It was me.....I already posted it once and I don't know how to link to it so I will just copy and paste it here.

This isn't the entire quote I was thinking of but at least this will redeem me to some extent. I knew that I had read somewhere that Stevie did in fact call Lindsey after "that day" and asked him, what he wanted her to do. Did he want her to leave too? Did he want to do another BN? I will keep looking for this one, but here is a small quote from another site that a friend of mine found for me....(Thanks Ang )

Quote:
Creem 9/87
(Stevie was recently asking him on the phone if he’d like to do another Buckingham/Nicks album)"You just don’t usually have to do that sort of thing-to break up with someone and then see them for the next 12 years. That’s just not normal…it’s not even very well. It’s sort of an ill thing to have to do, but what the hell. I’ve gotta tell you, the last 12 years, I think I’ve probably blocked out some of the more painful aspects. It seems like a big, long dream from which I’m just now awakening. I feel younger now that I have in years. I feel more new than I have in years. It’s a surreal thing, on that mega level. It’s gonna be a good year."

This is from Lindsey the one I was thinking of is actually Stevie talking saying that she called Lindsey soon after the fight and asked him .....but I can't find it now.

David

06-30-2005, 05:35 PM

Creem 9/87
(Stevie was recently asking him on the phone if he’d like to do another Buckingham/Nicks album)"You just don’t usually have to do that sort of thing-to break up with someone and then see them for the next 12 years. That’s just not normal…it’s not even very well. It’s sort of an ill thing to have to do, but what the hell. I’ve gotta tell you, the last 12 years, I think I’ve probably blocked out some of the more painful aspects. It seems like a big, long dream from which I’m just now awakening. I feel younger now that I have in years. I feel more new than I have in years. It’s a surreal thing, on that mega level. It’s gonna be a good year."Kind of confusing. How does one know whether LIndsey is referring to a phone call from Stevie that took place before he left or after he left?

Hard to believe she called him so soon after such an unpleasant parting of the ways. Unbelievable, in fact.

Also, how did an event that occurred in August 1987 make it into print by September 1987 in a magazine that typically had stories run three, four or even five months after events they related? (For example, you might get a story about the Mirage tour in March 1983 <---that was typical.)

SteveMacD

06-30-2005, 05:49 PM

Mick is the one who said that Lindsey threw her over the hood of a car. I have a bit of a hard time swallowing that, so, like I said, I take what he says in that book with a whole shaker of salt. I'm not excusing any of what Lindsey did because I find it reprehensible for a man to lay his hand on a woman, but I'm certainly not going to put stock in any of what Mick Fleetwood has to say about that particular incident.
What about Stevie saying that she thought Lindsey was going to kill her, and that Lindsey probably thought he was going to kill her, and that if he did, if the band didn't kill him, her family would? Or, what about John telling Lindsey that he'd better leave? Stevie and John have both basically confirmed that whatever happened that night was violent. Maybe not physically, but it still violent. And, I'm not saying Lindsey is soley responsible. Sure, Mick's account was one sided. It doesn't change the fact that whatever happened that night wasn't pretty.
Wasn't it Stevie who supposedly apologized to Lindsey for what Mick wrote? Surely that has something to do with Mick embellishing the incident to make the book sound more juicy. The guy was coked out of his gourd for years, yet he still has a good enough memory to give us a play-by-play in his book that supposedly reprints what was said verbatim? I think not.
Or maybe she apologized because the description of what happened was so one sided and was embellished. It's not like Mick was standing right beside them when it happened. Given that Lindsey was quitting his band, his baby, I'm sure Mick's view of what happened was colored. Again, the book was written from HIS point of view. And, no, the drug use didn't help. Anyway, I didn't think coke caused memory loss like pot.

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 10:02 PM

Kind of confusing. How does one know whether LIndsey is referring to a phone call from Stevie that took place before he left or after he left?

Hard to believe she called him so soon after such an unpleasant parting of the ways. Unbelievable, in fact.

Also, how did an event that occurred in August 1987 make it into print by September 1987 in a magazine that typically had stories run three, four or even five months after events they related? (For example, you might get a story about the Mirage tour in March 1983 <---that was typical.)That Cream article was definitely finished before Lindsey left the band. I have that issue (which also includes a review of 'Tango'), and, in it, he's still him-hawing about touring with Fleetwood Mac. Says he's more interested in doing a solo show, "something somewhere between Laurie Anderson and Frank Sinatra."
I remember rolling my eyes when I read that the first time, because I couldn't stand Laurie Anderson. (He also mentions Laurie two or three other times throughout the article.) :laugh:

Another interesting tidbit in that article, is the mention of Christine's plans to record a solo album "next year," and that she had already asked Lindsey and Richard Dashut to produce some of the tracks.

Johnny Stew

06-30-2005, 10:05 PM

Oops, almost forgot! :o
Thank you, Suzanne, for re-posting the quote! :xoxo:

Kelly

07-01-2005, 07:28 AM

Like I pointed out earlier...Stevie only said she thought LB was going to kill her in the early nineties. She was saying tons of bad stuff then, about Mick, about LB...she was out of it and has stated she regrets much of what she did and said on klonopin. I take that "kill" quote in the context of the time it was made...when Lindsey was not talking to Stevie. She was hurt and lashing out. I am not saying that she and Lb did not have a physical confrontation and that Lindsey did not push her on the hood but did she fear for her life? Obviously if she still wanted to work with him and she was apologizing to him, it stands to reason that Stevie knew in her heart they were both at fault. As recently as 2003 Stevie was telling the story differently, saying she ran over and attacked him. It is not really fair to take the one quote about killing and assume that is exactly what happened. She was mad as a hornet back then and spouting off about alot of things. She very well could have exagerated what happened in her early 90's quotes or she could be downplaying it now. Another thing, Jess Nicks. He and LB are close, whether people want to believe that or not, it is true. Would Jess adore a man who was physically abusive to his daughter? Doubt it. (and yeas, Jess adores Lindsey)

Suzanne...there is another quote too that I will look for. I think it is actually LINDSEY who says that Stevie called him up and asked him to do BN if she quit. I know I read it somewhere and it is describing what happened after he left the band. Lindsey specifically says "she called him up and asked him if he wanted her to quit TOO and if he wanted to do BN if she did". I think that adds even more weight to my feeling that LB's leaving the band affected Stevie a great deal. (emotionally)

SteveMacD

07-01-2005, 09:02 AM

Like I pointed out earlier...Stevie only said she thought LB was going to kill her in the early nineties. She was saying tons of bad stuff then, about Mick, about LB...she was out of it and has stated she regrets much of what she did and said on klonopin. I take that "kill" quote in the context of the time it was made...when Lindsey was not talking to Stevie. She was hurt and lashing out. I am not saying that she and Lb did not have a physical confrontation and that Lindsey did not push her on the hood but did she fear for her life? Obviously if she still wanted to work with him and she was apologizing to him, it stands to reason that Stevie knew in her heart they were both at fault. As recently as 2003 Stevie was telling the story differently, saying she ran over and attacked him. It is not really fair to take the one quote about killing and assume that is exactly what happened. She was mad as a hornet back then and spouting off about alot of things. She very well could have exagerated what happened in her early 90's quotes or she could be downplaying it now. Another thing, Jess Nicks. He and LB are close, whether people want to believe that or not, it is true. Would Jess adore a man who was physically abusive to his daughter? Doubt it. (and yeas, Jess adores Lindsey)
That's all fine. The fact is that what Stevie was saying gives credit to what Mick said in his book, hence I find it difficult to say that Mick fabricated the whole story. He may have been one sided and embellished certain things, but the fact is that it was ugly. Even before "Behind The Mask" came out, Stevie was saying that they said the kind of things that you say when you're ending a relationship forever.