THE sickest story I've ever heard in the news

[SteveMacD]

Okay, I'm a man, and I tend to not let my emotions show. I'll tell you upfront that I almost cried when I heard this story. I'm also a liberal. Not a flaming liberal, but a liberal nonetheless. I tend to disagree with the capital punishment, but this monster needs to be taken out. I honestly don't think there's any punishment harsh enough for him. Read the rest at your own risk. You've been warned.






MILFORD. Ohio -- A 34-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of raping his 7-week-old baby.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0608/4584111_200X150.jpg

The baby girl also has a broken leg, a broken wrist and bruises on her chest, nose and legs.

The baby's mother, Shannon Sorah, said her husband, Joseph Warner Sorah, admitted sexually assaulting his daughter.

"He admitted to doing it when no one was around," she said.

She said he slept next to the child's crib in another room.

"He said the reason why he wanted her to sleep in there was so I could get my sleep," she said.

Shannon Sorah said her husband had beaten her and their 2-year-old son, but she never imagined he could rape the baby.

"He's had problems. He needs help. He's sick. He's sick in a perverted way," she said through tears.

The baby's uncle, James Carpenter, said he never suspected anything.

"He's never really worked a job or anything. He's just a bum, basically. I never thought he was a child molester," Carpenter said.

Sorah was arraigned Wednesday on rape and child endangering charges and is being held in the Clermont County jail on $500,000 bond. He could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted. [He won't last a week in prison. Baby rapists are almost always killed pretty quickly -SM]

"I don't want anything to happen to him, anything bad, but he deserves it right now," his wife said.

Milford police said they discovered the crime after two women called paramedics to examine the baby.

Paramedics and police found scarring and other signs of abuse on the infant.

A later exam later revealed the rape, police said.

The baby will be turned over to Protective Services when she recovers.

[amber]

Sickest thing ever.

[GODDESS6]

that is so awful, i am a member of the america's most wanted board & they recently profiled & the arrested a guy who did the same thing, his child was 4 months old & he took photos of the act & traded them on the net~ i am so glad he was caught along w/ this a-hole!!! :distress: :distress: :distress: ~

[dudden22]

That just makes me sick. What is wrong with people. :distress:

[jannieC]

He won't last long in prison...fortunately. :(

Edited- I just re-read your post and saw you said almost the same thing. Sorry!

[ontheEdgeof17]

What's wrong with these people are mental disorders. I don't think they are "a-holes" or "perverts". They have a disease just like cancer or AIDS, but this is mental and they get placed in a category of freaks because they don't have the proper help as "other" disorders do. Pyschology help is expensive and hard to come by. I'm not approving of his doings...I think it is absolutely wrong and horrible. However, he has a mental problem and things like this happen without proper treatment. People like Tom Cruise are out there saying they are not real disorders. Bull. I've worked in mental insitutions. I see how sick these people are. I see how poor these people are and cannot afford medications...which work! Since insurance pays little to none for coverage, people are not on medications and stuff like this happens.

This guy could or could not have a mental disorder, but 9 times outta 10, they do. It's sad. It's sad for them...and mostly for the victims. That poor baby...my heart goes out.... :distress:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

These are the things that make me question my disapproval of capital punishment...sick bastard..ughh cant stand to look at his face..sicko...he will get what he deserves

Chris

[Dreammms]

that poor baby :distress:

what a mental mother ****er that guy is

i hope he rots

[SteveMacD]

What's wrong with these people are mental disorders...However, he has a mental problem and things like this happen without proper treatment. People like Tom Cruise are out there saying they are not real disorders. Bull. I've worked in mental insitutions.
I don't disagree with you on mental disorders. I'm an LSW in Ohio and I have also seen my fair shar of mental disorders. However, in the case of pedophilia of this magnitude, I think this is beyond just psychological problems. From what I've read, most pedophiliac behaviors are as a result of abuse suffered as a child. I'm not ruling out that he may have been abused as a child, but even so, doing what he did to a seven-week old baby is beyond the scope of even abnormal psych. BTW, I'm not usually of the ilk that pedophiles must die. I think most have gone through some type of trauma that has clouded all their judgement. I personally believe that there are levels of pedophilia, and this is BY FAR the most extreme example I've ever known of. If he could do what he did to any seven-week old baby, let alone his own seven-week old baby, then he needs to die. Because NOBODY is safe around a monster like this. :nod:

[Stephanie]

I have never, ever heard something so sick and twisted. THe saving grace is that it was caught and did not continue to go on.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

What are the levels of paedophilia?

What you said implies that the worst mental disorders are so bad that those with them don't deserve help. Shouldn't it be the opposite, the more advanced the disorder the more help one needs, or are we advocating mercy killings? I understand what this man has done but you were talking about people with extreme mental disorders. I don't think they should be left alone to rot, that they're too disordered to deserve help.

I didn't see anything in the article that implied he had a mental disorder...I don't think it's safe to assume that just because he does evil things means he's mental- Some people are just plain evil..

Chris

[dissention]

Hopefully he gets a life sentence and gets shanked within a week with a piece of plexi. One can hope.

[dudden22]

The mother is just as guilty here for not leaving after he beat her two year old son. She should have both children taken away. Let me guess, "but she loved him.”

I have to agree with the fact that he obviously had a mental disorder, which was not diagnosed, due to lack of education and our wonderful health care system.

[amber]

The mother is just as guilty here for not leaving after he beat her two year old son. She should have both children taken away. Let me guess, "but she loved him.”

I have to agree with the fact that he obviously had a mental disorder, which was not diagnosed, due to lack of education and our wonderful health care system.
I think the mental disorder was "Evility".

[Stephanie]

Hopefully he gets a life sentence and gets shanked within a week with a piece of plexi. One can hope.

I agree 100%

[dissention]

What are the levels of paedophilia?

What you said implies that the worst mental disorders are so bad that those with them don't deserve help. Shouldn't it be the opposite, the more advanced the disorder the more help one needs, or are we advocating mercy killings? I understand what this man has done but you were talking about people with extreme mental disorders. I don't think they should be left alone to rot, that they're too disordered to deserve help.

And what do you suggest should happen to him after he gets the help you say he so richly deserves and they claim he's rehabilitated in, say, 10 or 15 years? Let him loose? I don't give two squirts of duck **** if he gets "help" or not as long as the sick mother****er is locked up for the rest of his life. Any pain, physically or emotionally, that he might suffer would be nothing compared to pain he inflicted on this poor little baby when he took it upon himself to tear her to shreds. He should get all the "help" they're willing to give him, but he should still rot.

[Dreammms]

And what do you suggest should happen to him after he gets the help you say he so richly deserves and they claim he's rehabilitated in, say, 10 or 15 years? Let him loose? I don't give two squirts of duck **** if he gets "help" or not as long as the sick mother****er is locked up for the rest of his life. Any pain, physically or emotionally, that he might suffer would be nothing compared to pain he inflicted on this poor little baby when he took it upon himself to tear her to shreds. He should get all the "help" they're willing to give him, but he should still rot.


very well said josh

this whole thing is sickening

the mother should be put away too

[dissention]

The mother is just as guilty here for not leaving after he beat her two year old son. She should have both children taken away. Let me guess, "but she loved him.”

While I agree she should have her children removed from her custody, I don't think it was necessarily her fault. No one can understand what it's like to be in such a violent relationship, living as a battered woman, unless you are one.

I have to agree with the fact that he obviously had a mental disorder, which was not diagnosed, due to lack of education and our wonderful health care system.

Yeah, a severe case of pedophilia coupled with assholism.

[amber]

Yeah, a severe case of pedophilia coupled with assholism.


"Evility".....

[dissention]

"Evility".....

That's too kind. :o I don't think there are words to describe any "disorder" that would make a man rape his baby like that. Quite honestly, I'm surprised I haven't barfed all over my keyboard after reading that article; it actually made me feel filthy to read once again about how disgusting (and that term is an understatement in this case) some people truly are.

[amber]

That's too kind. :o I don't think there are words to describe any "disorder" that would make a man rape his baby like that. Quite honestly, I'm surprised I haven't barfed all over my keyboard after reading that article; it actually made me feel filthy to read once again about how disgusting (and that term is an understatement in this case) some people truly are.
Exactly. Which means one of the only words that comes to mind is Evil.

[dudden22]

I think the mental disorder was "Evility".

I am in no way defending him. I hope he rots in jail!! I was just trying to make the point that if perhaps his mental problems were caught sooner, like after he beat up a two year old. This may have never happened. I hate it when women stay with men who abuse their children, she should have left immediately.

[Dreammms]

While I agree she should have her children removed from her custody, I don't think it was necessarily her fault. No one can understand what it's like to be in such a violent relationship, living as a battered woman, unless you are one.


I feel bad for her too if she was battered but come on her two year old was beat up and she continued to stay with the sicko anyway? that's not right.

[GateandGarden]

I really don't know what to say about this. I believe in rehabilitating people, but then I'm not sure what it would do for this person. This reminds me of what happened at the Hosanna Church in Ponchatoula, LA, when infants were raped inside the church. I just keep thinking that someone like that should be in prison for life, and then I wonder what purpose rehabilitation would serve.

[dissention]

I am in no way defending him. I hope he rots in jail!! I was just trying to make the point that if perhaps his mental problems were caught sooner, like after he beat up a two year old. This may have never happened. I hate it when women stay with men who abuse their children, she should have left immediately.

Just look at that woman who killed her kids a couple years back. She was suffering from postpartem depression severely and her husband did nothing about it. He was just as culpable as she was in the deaths of their children, in my opinion. He neglected those children by allowing someone with such a severe illness to be around them like that. And now we have sick bastards like Tom Cruise saying that in order to "cure" those illnesses, they should 86 the prescription drugs and just take Vitamin C. How inane and dangerous.

[dissention]

I feel bad for her too if she was battered but come on her two year old was beat up and she continued to stay with the sicko anyway? that's not right.

No, it's not right one bit and she was guilty of abusing those kids by sticking around. :nod: But women who are battered like that are obviously suffering from some sort of mental illness if they still stick around.

[dissention]

I really don't know what to say about this. I believe in rehabilitating people, but then I'm not sure what it would do for this person. This reminds me of what happened at the Hosanna Church in Ponchatoula, LA, when infants were raped inside the church. I just keep thinking that someone like that should be in prison for life, and then I wonder what purpose rehabilitation would serve.

Well, I don't believe that sex offenders can be rehabilitated. I think it's an absurd notion and it's dangerous for them to be walking the streets. It's laughable that here in Mass, they have severe sex offenders walking the streets and being monitored via satellite by an ankle bracelet. Stop wasting money on that **** and keep them in prison where you don't have to monitor their every action. Do people lack common sense or what? Who comes up with such an asinine program? Is it to prevent overcrowding in prisons? If so, why not just stop giving ridiculous mandatory minimums to people caught with six ounces of weed and put the people who should be in prison in prison? Pretty soon I'm goign to stop paying my taxes and am going to send the dip****s at the IRS a letter, outlining why the stupid people should be paying taxes instead of me.

[amber]

Well, I don't believe that sex offenders can be rehabilitated. I think it's an absurd notion and it's dangerous for them to be walking the streets. It's laughable that here in Mass, they have severe sex offenders walking the streets and being monitored via satellite by an ankle bracelet. Stop wasting money on that **** and keep them in prison where you don't have to monitor their every action. Do people lack common sense or what? Who comes up with such an asinine program? Is it to prevent overcrowding in prisons? If so, why not just stop giving ridiculous mandatory minimums to people caught with six ounces of weed and put the people who should be in prison in prison? Pretty soon I'm goign to stop paying my taxes and am going to send the dip****s at the IRS a letter, outlining why the stupid people should be paying taxes instead of me.
Nice. Exactly. Etc.

[dudden22]

Just look at that woman who killed her kids a couple years back. She was suffering from postpartem depression severely and her husband did nothing about it. He was just as culpable as she was in the deaths of their children, in my opinion. He neglected those children by allowing someone with such a severe illness to be around them like that. And now we have sick bastards like Tom Cruise saying that in order to "cure" those illnesses, they should 86 the prescription drugs and just take Vitamin C. How inane and dangerous.

I completely agree. He was just as responsible for the deaths of those children. I did not mean to sound like I am blaming the mother completely, but he beat up her two year child, that is a red flag to get the f*ck out.

Tom Cruise needs a mood stabilizer IMO, his vitamins aren't working!!

[Johnny Stew]

As I've said before, my compassion for anyone ends the minute they harm a child. It's reprehensible and unforgivable in my eyes.

[estranged4life]

this sick act makes me think of the 2 month baby that died when her Mother (High on crack) tossed the infant out of the window of a SUV as it drived down a major street in OKC last year.

I'll probably get flamed for this opinion on some so-called "parents" in this state (Which ranks #1 in the US for the number of child abuse cases that have been reported to authorities), but just because you can create a child doesnt mean you can raise a child.

[Dreammms]

this sick act makes me think of the 2 month baby that died when her Mother (High on crack) tossed the infant out of the window of a SUV as it drived down a major street in OKC last year.


wow! how f*cking sick!

[GardenStateGirlie]

As I've said before, my compassion for anyone ends the minute they harm a child. It's reprehensible and unforgivable in my eyes.

Agreed. Harm yourself if you're so goddamn miserable if you must anyone at all. I'm absolutely disgusted by this--honestly and truly, there are no words. None at all.

[CreepingDeath]

Agreed. Harm yourself if you're so goddamn miserable if you must anyone at all. I'm absolutely disgusted by this--honestly and truly, there are no words. None at all.

Same here. I hope this bastard's remaining days are filled with misery.

[dissention]

What is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_re_us/toddler_porn;_ylt=AvM25.Ylj0057Mh2Hg6xiNVI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[GardenStateGirlie]

What is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_re_us/toddler_porn;_ylt=AvM25.Ylj0057Mh2Hg6xiNVI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

I don't know but reading his statements and his "reasoning" for doing so is making me physically ill :distress:

[dissention]

I don't know but reading his statements and his reasoning for doing so is making me physically ill :distress:

:nod: I know, he's a sick bastard.

They had pictures of the little girl all over the local news and in the newspaper a few days ago, but I found it odd because they didn't say she was missing or anything like that, just that they wanted information her if you recognized her. Then I saw this a few minutes ago and couldn't believe it.

[GateandGarden]

What is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_re_us/toddler_porn;_ylt=AvM25.Ylj0057Mh2Hg6xiNVI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
That is awful.

[Dreammms]

What is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_re_us/toddler_porn;_ylt=AvM25.Ylj0057Mh2Hg6xiNVI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

so sad.

so many sickos out there. very scary.

[dudden22]

That poor girl, and she is not with her parents either she is the custody of authorities. Hopefully her parents did not knowingly subject her to possible abuse and she can be back with her family soon.

[GateandGarden]

Printing photos at the photo store?I had this picture in my head of some doofus (or dufus?--sorry, I don't usually use that word in my papers or anything :laugh: ) standing around at one of those photo machines printing crap and then freaking out because someone's going to see it and taking off running. It's kind of funny. It obviously has sicko written all over it but I'm seeing loser written all over it, too.

[GateandGarden]

Yep, plenty of them are very manipulative and crafty, usually the ones who get away with it. This guy is just an idiot, his stupidity probably perplexes the minds of those who manage to get away with carrying out their perversions.Probably so.

[Johnny Stew]

This guy falls into the 'idiot' catergory. Printing photos at the photo store?There was a guy caught at one of our local libraries, using one of the public-use computers to trade kiddie porn pics with other pedophiles online.

These guys are mentally ill AND complete idiots, apparently. But, thankfully, their idiocy leads to their eventual capture.

[wondergirl9847]

There's not a toilet large enough for the amount of vomit I could spew right now. :mad: Disgusting.

Poor, lil baby. :distress:

[NaiveMelody23]

the sad thing is....we talk about this guy who may or may not have a mental disorder, but yet it happens everyday. Dont we live in such a wonderful world

[GODDESS6]

this sick act makes me think of the 2 month baby that died when her Mother (High on crack) tossed the infant out of the window of a SUV as it drived down a major street in OKC last year.

I'll probably get flamed for this opinion on some so-called "parents" in this state (Which ranks #1 in the US for the number of child abuse cases that have been reported to authorities), but just because you can create a child doesnt mean you can raise a child.
i remember this brian, how awful~ & i agree w/ u on the parenting opinion~

[cliffdweller]

Hopefully he gets a life sentence and gets shanked within a week with a piece of plexi. One can hope.

:nod: Agreed. And all this talk about mental disorders---whether this guy has one or not is no excuse for what he did. I know noone is trying to excuse this guy's behavior, but even entertaining an examination of this guy and why he could have done what he did is showing him too much mercy. I mean, when does the "cycle of abuse" stop? And how are the poor victims supposed to reconcile their trauma? They have to live their whole lives with these afflictions and possibly act out on another innocent person as a result. We could go on defending people for their actions for reasons of insanity, but at the end of the day, we have to weigh those consequences and realize that sometimes victims' lives are destroyed by too much careful deliberation of criminals' psychological make-up. I consider myself to be a liberal too, but in instances like this case, I can't help but see only black and white.

[cliffdweller]

Well, I don't believe that sex offenders can be rehabilitated. I think it's an absurd notion and it's dangerous for them to be walking the streets.

I agree Josh. I took a Criminology class a few years back and my professor described Pedophilia not as a disease (and mind you this guy is a Sociologist not a Psychiatrist) but as a sexual preference . You can't change someone's sexual preference...it is what it is, you can't "cure" someone of that. Anyway, that's one way of looking at it.

[skcin]

There's no doubt this guy is mentally ill. But I do agree with Diss from personal experience that sex offenders( especially pedophiles) cannot be rehabilitated. It's just not possible. There's something screwy with their brain that can't be fixed. No matter what you medicate them with, no matter what therapy they take part in, they will always have these urges.

Unless they are castrated, physically or chemically. JMO.

[cliffdweller]

There's no doubt this guy is mentally ill. But I do agree with Diss from personal experience that sex offenders( especially pedophiles) cannot be rehabilitated. It's just not possible. There's something screwy with their brain that can't be fixed. No matter what you medicate them with, no matter what therapy they take part in, they will always have these urges.

Unless they are castrated, physically or chemically. JMO.

It would have to be both.

[dissention]

I agree Josh. I took a Criminology class a few years back and my professor described Pedophilia not as a disease (and mind you this guy is a Sociologist not a Psychiatrist) but as a sexual preference . You can't change someone's sexual preference...it is what it is, you can't "cure" someone of that. Anyway, that's one way of looking at it.

Precisely and very well put. :nod:

[dreamongypsydkm]

I agree with most of you - these type of people are most definitely mentally unstable. I don't believe some people are just born "evil". Most of the time killers and rapists have a mental imbalance of some kind. However, I don't think these people can be committed for a while and come out of it normal. They cannot be cured, as some of you have said. They should be kept locked away from children. It's like any other temptation to these guys - they can't control themselves if the chance presents itself. I cannot believe some of the things I've read. Once I read about a man who was charged with 6 or 7 charges of child molestation and was released after his sentence. Then he was arrested again for child molestation and released again. Now he's out living somewhere near a grade school. And our government will throw a guy in jail for 20 years for having some pot? How backwards is that?

[cliffdweller]

And our government will throw a guy in jail for 20 years for having some pot? How backwards is that?

Preach it. Especially where pot issues are concerned. I mean, don't even get me started on that :laugh:.

[jannieC]

Pedophiles can't be "cured" or rehabilitated. Even if the behavior can be stopped (actual molestation), the thoughts will always be there. And because children are so naive, they are easy prey. Pedophiles <i>know</i> this, of course. There is no medication that can be given to stop the thoughts. There is no therapy that can stop a person from wanting to have sex with a child. It's so awful and scary. :(

[GateandGarden]

I think I've known this for awhile, but it saddens me that there are people out there who can never function in this world to do good for anyone. It just seems tragic that not everyone can be "cured." I know this is obvious, but whenever I spend time thinking about it, I can't get over how nonsensical it is. If there's a higher power, why would it want people whose lives serve no purpose to be born at all?

And I have a question--how is one chemically castrated?

[GateandGarden]

Evil is still a human characteristic. I don't believe in the idea that the evil people are a separate race of monsters. It doesn't make the 'evil' less horrendous but it is human. I think people don't like to believe what humans are capable of and it makes them feel more comfortable if they place those they see as evil in a catergory of sub-humans but the reality is that humans aren't ultra-beings. We're capable of greatness and evil. I don't think Hitler was a monster, he was a human and that makes it scarier, to realise what humans are capable of, too scary for some.I don't think the majority of humans are capable of that level of evil. And I'm also referring to people who seem to do far more evil than good. I don't mean to make them sub-humans; I'm still acknowledging that we're part of the same race. But if the concept of a higher power is presumably true (I personally don't believe it but that's beside the point) I have a hard time understanding why people would put on this earth by that being to serve nothing other than evil purposes. It really only makes sense to me if I can think that much of what goes on is random and unexplainable, which is what I think, but I don't have the answers, only some beliefs, anyway.

[Sugar]

Andrew Vachss, a NY based attorney who often is involved in abuse cases was once asked what's the difference between "sick" and "evil." He said "sick" is any desire to abuse or sexually use a child. "Evil" is acting on that feeling.

I think that's a real interesting distinction.

[Miss Vicky]

As you all may very well know by now, I walk the fence between liberal and conservative. Although I tend to lean to the left on many issues, I am in favor of the death penalty.

The individual who commited this horrible act, whether he is mentally ill or not, should be sentenced to death. This is not something that can be cured or fixed with medication, counseling, or other treatment. This man is extremely dangerous and it is not fair to the public for him to stand any chance of ever being free again. It is also not safe for him to be imprisoned, even if kept in solitude. If any of the other inmates get even the slightest chance, they will kill or seriously injure him. Although I doubt that the death penalty can legally be applied to this case, it really ought to be. This man is a monster.

[SteveMacD]

What are the levels of paedophilia?
It's a theory of mine, hence why I said I BELIEVE in it, not that I KNOW it. I think it can be measured. Let's split up youth by age groups:
0-3
3-5
6-11
12-15

For me, I don't believe that there's any hope for rehabilitation for somebody who offends in the first two groupings. The third group has some level of hope, and I honestly believe that many offenders in this group were offended on as a child, and this may be, for them, a natural reaction.

The fourth group is a hard measure. Today's 12-15 year olds are MUCH more sexual than those of my generation, and I'm 30. Yeah, we knew all about things, but we certainly didn't have "friends with benefits." So many kids in this age group send out sexual signals, some of which an adult may pick up on. There's a case of a 23 year old teacher getting arrested for having it off with a 14 year old student. She was in a bad place in her life, was very confused, and made a bad decision. I can see her reasoning. Of course, what 14 year old boy is going to say no to sex? And, it's not like kids in this group don't know what sex is, and in some countries (i.e. Canada), the age of consent is like 14. Hey, it's called "jail bait" for a reason. So I don't think that teacher is nearly as evil as this guy who raped his seven week old daughter.
What you said implies that the worst mental disorders are so bad that those with them don't deserve help. Shouldn't it be the opposite, the more advanced the disorder the more help one needs, or are we advocating mercy killings? I understand what this man has done but you were talking about people with extreme mental disorders. I don't think they should be left alone to rot, that they're too disordered to deserve help.
Well bravo to you. But for those of us in the real world, we understand that people like Jeffery Dahmer, the loser who raped his baby, and Adolph Hitler are so beyond evil that no amount of treatment will make a difference. They are so beyond rehabilitation that society IS safer when they die. Sorry, but there are times when we need to thin out the heard a bit.

[GateandGarden]

I don't know if you're referring to the kind of 'evil' that this subject was about but that kind is so common. Aren't one in every four women raped at some point? Already that makes the existence of a large section of men questionable. I don't believe in any higher power so I'm not the one to answer your question, in fact I wonder how they get around explaining that one when actions similar to those from these articles aren't uncommon.I was referring to what I think of as a greater evil than an isolated incident of a raping a woman. I think someone can commit rape and still be rehabilitated, particularly if it was an isolated incident. If I sound ridiculous, wrong, and/or illogical please feel free to point that out, as I often get myself into trouble for thinking outloud. Is it really true that one in four women are raped? I know many women who were never raped, so I always wonder about that statistic. As for the higher power thing, I think that things like this make the higher power hypothesis a difficult one to explain, and I felt the same way about 9/11, the tsunami, and other tragedies. Now, the idea that there was a higher power that created the world and then just left us all to our own devices and no longer has any control whatsoever? I find that plausible.

[GateandGarden]

But for those of us in the real world, we understand that people like Jeffery Dahmer, the loser who raped his baby, and Adolph Hitler are so beyond evil that no amount of treatment will make a difference. They are so beyond rehabilitation that society IS safer when they die. Sorry, but there are times when we need to thin out the heard a bit.Solitary confinement? :shrug:

Sorry, but I just don't believe that any person has a right to take another person's life away, even if that other person is truly evil. :shrug: That's just my opinion of capital punishment. :shrug:

[SteveMacD]

Solitary confinement? :shrug:

Sorry, but I just don't believe that any person has a right to take another person's life away, even if that other person is truly evil. :shrug: That's just my opinion of capital punishment. :shrug:
In general, I'm usually not in favor of capital punishment and I think it is used entirely WAY too much. But there are are EXTREME cases where it is really the only option. Serial killers, baby rapists, cannibals, etc. And, it should only be used if there is no dobt about their guilt. Still, this monster won't get death. That's why there's street justice. Oh, this guy will be killed at the hands of another person, to be sure.

[GateandGarden]

In general, I'm usually not in favor of capital punishment and I think it is used entirely WAY too much. But there are are EXTREME cases where it is really the only option. Serial killers, baby rapists, cannibals, etc. And, it should only be used if there is no dobt about their guilt. Still, this monster won't get death. That's why there's street justice. Oh, this guy will be killed at the hands of another person, to be sure.It's hard for me to understand this reasoning. If you think it's wrong for the government to kill people, that two wrongs don't make a right and so on, then why are some good to be killed and others not? If you're against capital punishment as a matter of principles, morality, etc., then it just doesn't make sense to me to make exceptions. But that's just me and my opinion, so please don't take it personally. For those who don't already know, this is my big issue in addition to gay rights. I usually don't talk about it because I get all mad and immature, so I'm amazed that I'm even trying to talk about it right now.

[SteveMacD]

If you think it's wrong for the government to kill people, that two wrongs don't make a right and so on, then why are some good to be killed and others not?
Because society is safer when certain people are not in it anymore. And really, it could argued that it is much less cruel to execute somebody by lethal injection than putting them into the general prison population, where they'll almost certainly be beaten to death, a la Dahmer. If I had to choose between lethal injection or getting a fatal ass beating, you bet I'm going with lethal inejction.

[jannieC]

It's a theory of mine, hence why I said I BELIEVE in it, not that I KNOW it. I think it can be measured. Let's split up youth by age groups:
0-3
3-5
6-11
12-15

For me, I don't believe that there's any hope for rehabilitation for somebody who offends in the first two groupings. The third group has some level of hope, and I honestly believe that many offenders in this group were offended on as a child, and this may be, for them, a natural reaction.



I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Any person, male or female, who either molests a child or is sexually attracted to a child, in that age group is a pedophile, bottom line. There is no level of hope. I know that you said this is your belief and not your knowledge, but I just felt I had to put my two cents in.

[strandinthewind]

I don't know if you're referring to the kind of 'evil' that this subject was about but that kind is so common. Aren't one in every four women raped at some point? Already that makes the existence of a large section of men questionable. I don't believe in any higher power so I'm not the one to answer your question, in fact I wonder how they get around explaining that one when actions similar to those from these articles aren't uncommon.


I agree with you here. I have hope that they can recover, though the science suggests otherwise. Maybe I have too much hope in me. I love it when we agree :angel:

[strandinthewind]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Any person, male or female, who either molests a child or is sexually attracted to a child, in that age group is a pedophile, bottom line. There is no level of hope. I know that you said this is your belief and not your knowledge, but I just felt I had to put my two cents in.


I think at 15 it becomes a little more unsure, but I think that really depends on the 15 year old. I mean I knew lots of girls who willingly had sex with 18 & 19 year olds. In fact, they sought it, lied about their age, etc. In fact the def. of ped. is sex with a pre pubescent person and at 15 most have gone through that. I must say though a 30 year old or more person having sex with a 15 year old is throughly disgusting. This is such a weird and strange subject and I mean not to offend anyone.

Here is what the Merck Manual says about this condition:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/CVMHighLight?file=/mrkshared/mmanual/section15/chapter192/192d.jsp%3Fregion%3Dmerckcom&word=pedophilia&domain=www.merck.com#hl_anchor

[equeen102289]

Oh my god, that is just sick! I really can't believe the mother let him stay alone with the baby, after he had beaten her and there son. I hope the SOB rots in hell. That really pissed me off!

[LikeAWillow]

The individual who commited this horrible act, whether he is mentally ill or not, should be sentenced to death. This is not something that can be cured or fixed with medication, counseling, or other treatment. This man is extremely dangerous and it is not fair to the public for him to stand any chance of ever being free again. It is also not safe for him to be imprisoned, even if kept in solitude. If any of the other inmates get even the slightest chance, they will kill or seriously injure him. Although I doubt that the death penalty can legally be applied to this case, it really ought to be. This man is a monster.

I completely agree with everything you said :nod: Justice is going to be carried out here one way or another, even if the court system will not allow capital punishment for this monster. Honestly, that story has completely sickened me, if that word is even strong enough. I'm not only horrified for this poor child, but also horrified by what would possess a father to rape his own 7 week old baby. Prison is not good enough for this man.

~Marissa~

[jannieC]

I think at 15 it becomes a little more unsure, but I think that really depends on the 15 year old. I mean I knew lots of girls who willingly had sex with 18 & 19 year olds. In fact, they sought it, lied about their age, etc. In fact the def. of ped. is sex with a pre pubescent person and at 15 most have gone through that. I must say though a 30 year old or more person having sex with a 15 year old is throughly disgusting. This is such a weird and strange subject and I mean not to offend anyone.

Here is what the Merck Manual says about this condition:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/CVMHighLight?file=/mrkshared/mmanual/section15/chapter192/192d.jsp%3Fregion%3Dmerckcom&word=pedophilia&domain=www.merck.com#hl_anchor

Gah, I meant to quote the ages 6-11. Sorry. I wasn't really referring to the teenage group, although that is pretty f*cked, too.

[GateandGarden]

Because society is safer when certain people are not in it anymore. And really, it could argued that it is much less cruel to execute somebody by lethal injection than putting them into the general prison population, where they'll almost certainly be beaten to death, a la Dahmer. If I had to choose between lethal injection or getting a fatal ass beating, you bet I'm going with lethal inejction.I understand that a person like that should not be out in society, and I also understand what generally happens to a person like that in prison, and that is why I suggested solitary confinement in an earlier post.

[SteveMacD]

Er....don't patronise me like that. I don't believe paedophiles can be rehabilitated, you're now referring to criminals, which is different from referring to those with severe mental disorders.
Umm, I've ONLY been talking about pedophiles, or more specifically ones who act out on it. I think that's been pretty clear. You asked what I meant about my levels of pedophilia statement, and I explained it to you. I'm sorry if you read more into the explanation than what I actually said. In any event, acting out pedophiliac behaviors IS criminal.

These are people who have acted out and are in a different catergory but you earlier implied that there is a level of mental disorder so severe that they ought to be killed and not even out of mercy, out of hatred for them. Mental disorder doesn't imply criminal but now you're suddenly talking about these criminals and applying it to what I said which is putting words in my mouth.
No, somebody else said that pedophila was a mental disorder. I agreed that it was. How could it not be? But, I also said that I generally am NOT of capital punishment for pedophiles ilk, hence why I distinguished other levels of pedophila. However, in the case of this monster, that he acted out on it, WITH HIS OWN DAUGHTER, he has to die. Not because he suffers from a mental disorder, but because he raped a SEVEN WEEK OLD baby!

[GateandGarden]

However, in the case of this monster, that he acted out on it, WITH HIS OWN DAUGHTER, he has to die. Not because he suffers from a mental disorder, but because he raped a SEVEN WEEK OLD baby!So, what purpose does that serve? Does it make someone feel better? It's a matter of revenge? I can't see how beneficial it is, since it doesn't make the baby unabused. There--I just made up a word.

[GateandGarden]

...that might be getting too carried away in the emotional response.I tend to feel like the need to execute someone is an overly emotional response to a criminal act, not a logical one which is necessary to carry out justice fairly.

Oh, why am I doing this?

[amber]

paedophilic
Why do you keep spelling it that way? Is that how you spell it in Australia?

[GateandGarden]

Why do you keep spelling it that way? Is that how you spell it in Australia?And the UK, too, I think.

[amber]

And the UK, too, I think.
Wow, I could've gone Aeons and never known that....

[dissention]

Wow, I could've gone Aeons

Flux?? :p :wavey:

[Hawkeye]

This guy is so sick, BUT i do have to say its kind of slightly better that this happened at 7 weeks as opposed to 7 years. There's no way anyone can remember anything from 7 weeks, so this kid will likely have to trauma from this. Its the one positive thing here.

[amber]

No, nothing to do with the fact that we speak English here not American, I just like to be different.
So then, snark aside, that is the British and Aus. spelling? I usually know these things. Sort of. I guess I should've figured, you're not known for your spelling errors.... :wavey:
thanks for taking time out of your busy day to clarify. :laugh: I'm busy, too, I'm making a ring out of beads..... :laugh: :rolleyes:

[amber]

Flux?? :p :wavey:
You know it, Lovah!!!! :laugh: Gosh, I love the Flux. WHY DON'T THEY MAKE ANY MORE??????? :mad: :mad:
I could watch that sh** all day!
okay, threadjack over, I swear. :sorry:

[GateandGarden]

This guy is so sick, BUT i do have to say its kind of slightly better that this happened at 7 weeks as opposed to 7 years. There's no way anyone can remember anything from 7 weeks, so this kid will likely have to trauma from this. Its the one positive thing here.I've been wondering about this. The negative effects would be obvious if the child had been seven years old, but I wonder if it's still going to be considerably tragic in this case as well. The child won't remember it, but I imagine that it's going to have some kind of emotional effect. What do y'all think?

[amber]

I've been wondering about this. The negative effects would be obvious if the child had been seven years old, but I wonder if it's still going to be considerably tragic in this case as well. The child won't remember it, but I imagine that it's going to have some kind of emotional effect. What do y'all think?
Well, I think it will be one of those subconscious traumas. When I watched the special on Prince Harry, when he went to Africa, and there was that 10 month old girl some guy did that to - She looked really bad at first. Like a zombie. terrible. Then they went back to her months later, and she was doing much better. So, basically, I think it will always be "in there" somewhere, but not enough that she really remembers. I hope that's true. It will probably have informed some part of her intrinsic personality, but maybe not so much that she will act out because of it or anything. IMLO.

[dissention]

This guy is so sick, BUT i do have to say its kind of slightly better that this happened at 7 weeks as opposed to 7 years. There's no way anyone can remember anything from 7 weeks, so this kid will likely have to trauma from this. Its the one positive thing here.

The only positive thing about it is that the poor thing is actually ALIVE. The bastard tore her to shreds, I'm surprised she isn't dead from that.

[dissention]

You know it, Lovah!!!! :laugh: Gosh, I love the Flux. WHY DON'T THEY MAKE ANY MORE??????? :mad: :mad:
I could watch that sh** all day!
okay, threadjack over, I swear. :sorry:

I think the movie comes out in September. :woohoo:

[amber]

I think the movie comes out in September. :woohoo:
I know, but I didn't mean that, I want more animation. The animation of it is a big part of what makes it so weird. It's why I love it.
Good Day, threadjack!!

[SteveMacD]

So, what purpose does that serve? Does it make someone feel better? It's a matter of revenge? I can't see how beneficial it is, since it doesn't make the baby unabused. There--I just made up a word.
In this case, if he could do something THAT wickedly awful to HIS OWN seven week old BABY, is ANYBODY safe around this guy? If he were to ever go out into society again, people would be in serious danger. While almost no prisoners escape, it has happened before. It's not probable, but it is possible. Frankly, I'd rather play it safe.

[SteveMacD]

Of course it's criminal. I don't think those with paedophilic fantasies should be killed and I don't think that those who act upon it should be killed either.

I realise how bad it was but I don't believe in the death penalty. He has to be punished but I don't believe he has to die, that might be getting too carried away in the emotional response.
Well, on this point, we'll have to disagree. This is one of the very few times I think we need to thin the heard a bit. I usually don't feel this way, and, as mentioned, I think that capital punishment has been overused far too much in the USA. This is one time I say fry the bastard. Not that it matters. He's already admitted guilt, so he's going to jail, where he'll likely meet a MUCH more brutal death at the hands of another prisoner than he'd get with lethal injection.

[dissention]

Well, on this point, we'll have to disagree. This is one of the very few times I think we need to thin the heard a bit. I usually don't feel this way, and, as mentioned, I think that capital punishment has been overused far too much in the USA. This is one time I say fry the bastard. Not that it matters. He's already admitted guilt, so he's going to jail, where he'll likely meet a MUCH more brutal death at the hands of another prisoner than he'd get with lethal injection.

I hope he doesn't sentenced to death just so that the other inmates can do what they wish with him. Let him get raped and see what it's like to be violated like that.

[amber]

Well, on this point, we'll have to disagree. This is one of the very few times I think we need to thin the heard a bit. I usually don't feel this way, and, as mentioned, I think that capital punishment has been overused far too much in the USA. This is one time I say fry the bastard. Not that it matters. He's already admitted guilt, so he's going to jail, where he'll likely meet a MUCH more brutal death at the hands of another prisoner than he'd get with lethal injection.
I hate/love capital punishment discussions on here. Because I am so on the fence. On one hand, there are too many humans, anyway, and if these crazy, murderous, raping mofos were in the stream of real life, and we were all in a tribe, we would kill those a-holes. but besides that, it's not like there is a shortage of human life to go around. And that is very big.
But -
My abstract, karmically inclined, intellectual self kind of believes that the death penalty is wrong, not only because it is used wrongly (not guilty people being sentenced to death) although that is a great reason in and of itself -
But also because I think that it might be hard for humans as a whole to work towards enlightenment and something better, a whole better society, if the death penalty is in place. I think I would support the death penalty if it was 100% accurate, but since that is impossible, I won't. I have to say, that is really the biggest reason for me. :sorry: I hate human scumminess and bad gene pools, and general large population a lot, but I hate unfairness and injustice more. And, when I think about it, life incarceration basically serves the same purpose, though I think it usually costs the taxpayers more. But if that is the price, I'm willing to pay it.
Rant Over.

[GateandGarden]

And, when I think about it, life incarceration basically serves the same purpose, though I think it usually costs the taxpayers more. But if that is the price, I'm willing to pay it.
Rant Over.Execution is more costly than life imprisonment, due to all the appeals and such. Mikki posted some statistics about it at one point.

[amber]

Yeah it's the British spelling. I'm pleased that I'm not known for my spelling errors but I fear being publically ridiculed and perhaps even stoned should I do so.

What is Flux? Someone using my name without my knowledge?


I'm only responding to this part, for obvious reasons...
yes, you are a good speller, and don't think that is not appreciated. :xoxo:
If you have not seen Aeon Flux, run, don't walk, to your video store. Using all my powers of observation, I'm thinking you will love it. It's animated. It's strange. It's Saladfingersesque. It's beautiful. Unfortunately, there are only two tapes of it, with three episodes each.
I promise you will not be disappointed, and I don't say that lightly. :)
If you are disappointed, please write to me for a full refund of your renting costs, which I will promptly ignore. Thank you.

[amber]

Execution is more costly than life imprisonment, due to all the appeals and such. Mikki posted some statistics about it at one point.
Yeah, I actually kind of remembered that while I was posting. Seems strange, doesn't it?? But, that's okay, it supports my non death leanings. In my wildest dreams, though, these people will also not be allowed to procreate, but.... :shrug: I said, yeah, well...etc.

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, I actually kind of remembered that while I was posting. Seems strange, doesn't it?? But, that's okay, it supports my non death leanings. In my wildest dreams, though, these people will also not be allowed to procreate, but.... :shrug: I said, yeah, well...etc.While we're at it, can we arrange for Britney and Kevin to not be able to procreate as well? Too late, huh? :laugh: :(

[amber]

While we're at it, can we arrange for Britney and Kevin to not be able to procreate as well? Too late, huh? :laugh: :(

:lol: :lol:
gime a break, I'm trying not to be a fascist! :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Gah, I meant to quote the ages 6-11. Sorry. I wasn't really referring to the teenage group, although that is pretty f*cked, too.


I know - I cannot even imagine thinking about that without vomiting :eek:

[lagringader&r]

The mother is just as guilty here for not leaving after he beat her two year old son. She should have both children taken away. Let me guess, "but she loved him.”

I have to agree with the fact that he obviously had a mental disorder, which was not diagnosed, due to lack of education and our wonderful health care system.

Women are weak and pathetic when they won't leave a man after he beats up a two-year-old. She's crying now, but what was she doing when her two-year-old was crying? :shocked: She should have been crying then. And packing.

[SteveMacD]

She should have been crying then. And packing.
Packing? I say have the SOB thrown in jail. Pack HIS ass up!

[lagringader&r]

Not to eliminate blame but isn't that a little presumptuous? No case is black and white.

Huh? A grown man beat up a two-year-old child. That's black and white with absolutely no room for gray. Sorry. As far as I'm concerned, that woman is partially responsible for that baby being raped. To SteveMacD: you're right. She should have hauled his ass off to jail when he was beating the two-year-old. That baby would have never been raped. See how she was partially to blame and how black and white it is? I have no sympathy for that type of ignorance on the part of a woman *in love*. :(

[GateandGarden]

You're assuming that's why she was still with him. They aren't black and white, there's a hundred other things that could be happening and who are we to say. It's certainly likely that she should take some guilt but you really can't judge every case in this stereotypical light.Ideally, a person is able to take off to protect his or her children and him or herself, but I figure it's very likely that this person was scared of what the guy would do if she took off. It's hard for me to judge if I've never been in that situation. I've always found the idea of "If you leave me I'll kill you," particuarly horrifying, understandably. I realize that she has to take some of the blame, but, as you said, not black and white.

[strandinthewind]

You're assuming that's why she was still with him. They aren't black and white, there's a hundred other things that could be happening and who are we to say. It's certainly likely that she should take some guilt but you really can't judge every case in this stereotypical light.

I agree. I know it seems like everyone should just be able to pack up and leave when things get bad. I think I would do that, though I have never really been in that horrible of a situation. The medical data suggests many women in such situations are so beaten down emotionally that they do not have the strength to contemplate packing and leaving - they are also scared that the abuser will find them and kill them, etc. So, while I agree that all being abused should leave, it is not always as easy as calling a cab.

Here are some sites with general information:

http://www.violetnet.org/info/genj-6.htm

http://www.legal-info-legale.nb.ca/showpub.asp?id=47&langid=1

of course, there are many many more.

[dissention]

Huh? A grown man beat up a two-year-old child. That's black and white with absolutely no room for gray. Sorry. As far as I'm concerned, that woman is partially responsible for that baby being raped. To SteveMacD: you're right. She should have hauled his ass off to jail when he was beating the two-year-old. That baby would have never been raped. See how she was partially to blame and how black and white it is? I have no sympathy for that type of ignorance on the part of a woman *in love*. :(

You should read Woman Thou Art Loosed by TD Jakes. Gives you not only the perspective of the child being abused, but the mother that lets it continue and the people watching from the sidelines.

[lagringader&r]

You should read Woman Thou Art Loosed by TD Jakes. Gives you not only the perspective of the child being abused, but the mother that lets it continue and the people watching from the sidelines.

I'll bet that's a painfully depressing read. :( I don't have a lot of personal experience with domestic violence, but I do have a friend that does and I understand how a man can instill fear into a woman and more or less manipulate her to stay. I still stand by what I said, though. It's one thing for a woman to allow herself to be abused but when she has children, her priorities have to change. It has to be about them all the time. She can have the sh*t beaten out of her on a daily basis if she wants to, but don't subject an innocent child or baby to it. If you don't have the balls or the means to protect your children, don't have kids. Plain and simple.

[strandinthewind]

. . . If you don't have the balls or the means to protect your children, don't have kids. Plain and simple.

Well, it is not that plain and simple. Countless women are raped by their husbands/partners in horrid acts of violence and these women do not always have access to abortions and if they did, they may think abortion is murder (remember it is called pro choice and not pro abortion for a reason) or their husbands control the money and/or would likely kill them if they found out the woman had one. So, while I agree that no one who has the choice should choose to have a child if they cannot properly care for it, I just wanted to note that not all women have the luxury of that choice.

[lagringader&r]

Well, it is not that plain and simple. Countless women are raped by their husbands/partners in horrid acts of violence and these women do not always have access to abortions and if they did, they may think abortion is murder (remember it is called pro choice and not pro abortion for a reason) or their husbands control the money and/or would likely kill them if they found out the woman had one. So, while I agree that no one who has the choice should choose to have a child if they cannot properly care for it, I just wanted to note that not all women have the luxury of that choice.

Good point. I'll give you that. That's really sad.. :distress:

[strandinthewind]

Good point. I'll give you that. That's really sad.. :distress:


I am glad you took that in a friendly way, I meant it as such, but on a re read I think I came off a little soapboxish :sorry:

[lagringader&r]

I am glad you took that in a friendly way, I meant it as such, but on a re read I think I came off a little soapboxish :sorry:

I didn't take it that way at all. It was something I never thought about. That a woman might have been raped and that she didn't make a choice to have children when she couldn't protect them. I think it's never too late to get out of those situations, though. Kids deserve better.. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

I didn't take it that way at all. It was something I never thought about. That a woman might have been raped and that she didn't make a choice to have children when she couldn't protect them. I think it's never too late to get out of those situations, though. Kids deserve better.. :nod:


I think it is sooooo great that there are so many places now that battered women can go to get shelter, help, etc. So, hopefully, that will help prevent anyone from staying in that kind of environment. I cannot imagine ever treating anyone like that - it just kills me to think that actually happens.

[lagringader&r]

I think it is sooooo great that there are so many places now that battered women can go to get shelter, help, etc. So, hopefully, that will help prevent anyone from staying in that kind of environment. I cannot imagine ever treating anyone like that - it just kills me to think that actually happens.

Me too. Luckily, no guy has ever beaten me but it happened to one of my friends and all I know about it is what she told me. She doesn't have kids, which would make it about 10 times worse. But, he started out by just shoving her around and then eventually slapping her and it got worse and worse. When she wanted to leave, he went crazy. Still, I never could understand why she didn't leave anyway. She would just say she loved him. :confused: I really don't get why women put up with that or how they can still love someone after they've abused them, whether it's shoving or slapping or worse. What is there to love? When there are kids involved, it really becomes mandatory for the woman to get out, for their sake. At least a woman can defend herself to a point.