Does FM have any African American fans?

[diamondsnake]

I know this is not PC, but has anyone else noticed how FM seems to have no African American fan base? I don't think I have ever seen a black person at a FM/Stevie concert.

Sorry... I'm just thinking out loud I guess.

[amber]

I posted that in another thread, too, but a little different. I met two at Concord SYW, and one in Vegas after Fri nights show. So i guess there are a few.
My AFA friend doesn't know barely any of the same songs as I do from the 80's and 90's, and I remember being shocked last year that she had only heard the song People Are Strange just that year. :shrug: Conversely, of course, I don't know lots of the songs she knows. I think Stevie's voice makes her cringe, a little, too. Either that, or she's just sick of her.... :laugh: I tried - sometimes she'll sing Edge w/me.... :D
oh, and don't forget about Sparky.... ;)

[diamondsnake]

I posted that in another thread, too, but a little different. I met two at Concord SYW, and one in Vegas after Fri nights show. So i guess there are a few.
My AFA friend doesn't know barely any of the same songs as I do from the 80's and 90's, and I remember being shocked last year that she had only heard the song People Are Strange just that year. :shrug: Conversely, of course, I don't know lots of the songs she knows. I think Stevie's voice makes her cringe, a little, too. Either that, or she's just sick of her.... :laugh: I tried - sometimes she'll sing Edge w/me.... :D
oh, and don't forget about Sparky.... ;)
I saw that you posted something about that in a differnt thread and it made me start thinking about the whole thing.

Even when I saw FM in Atlanta (which has a heavy African American community) I didn't see one black person at the concert....

I guess it is just a different culture. I mean, I would never listen to rap.

[johnny4406]

Down here in Florida there's always a couple!!

And on "The Dance" there's 2!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

[skcin]

My friend Kim (who entered that contest for me that won us the tix to the LA rehearsal 4/03) has always liked Mac & Stevie, but got way more into them after that show. She also won front row tix to Buffalo & took her dad. :D

I've seen a few AA fans at shows, but not too many.

[svnwndrs]

I have an African American friend, and she was temporarily living with her aunt and her uncle, and her aunt found a mix CD I made for her, and her aunt said "Stevie Nicks is a devil worshipper!" And of course, she took the mix CD and threw it away. We were both so PISSED! :(

[Dreammms]

there were some at pnc. :)

[darklinensuit]

And on "The Dance" there's 2!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

First thing I thought as well.

That and Elisecia doing HAEWAFY at Red Rocks - love it. :]

- Jake

[johnny4406]

First thing I thought as well.

That and Elisecia doing HAEWAFY at Red Rocks - love it. :]

- Jake


I miss Bobye Hall

she was off the chain

;)

[darklinensuit]

I miss Bobye Hall

she was off the chain

;)

As much I like Taku, Bobbye's drum dance during the Stand Back intro was inspired. :blob2:

- Jake

[HejiraNYC]

I sat next to an AA man at the SYW Camden show last year. Total chiffon head... yelling out "You sing it, girl!" whenever Stevie was doing a song. But looking around it was pretty much a sea of white... in Camden, NJ no less! And I thought to myself, geez... the two token minorities, and we're both seated next to each other! What are the chances of that at a FM concert? :lol:

[Jyqm]

I know this is not PC, but has anyone else noticed how FM seems to have no African American fan base? I don't think I have ever seen a black person at a FM/Stevie concert.

Sorry... I'm just thinking out loud I guess.

Heaven forbid! You must flagellate yourself for one full hour every day for thirty days for daring to suggest that people of different races might travel in largely different cultures!

Anyway, pop music doesn't get much more "white" than Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac, so it shouldn't be very surprising to anyone that the Mac's audience is almost entirely white. That said, I would venture the following guesses:

1) Fleetwood Mac probably has more black fans in Europe and Africa than they do in America.

2) Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac probably has more black fans than any other era of the band.

Are there many classic rock bands that do have much of a black fan base, though? Are there many classic rock bands that have black people in them?

[Jyqm]

I guess it is just a different culture. I mean, I would never listen to rap.

Well, that's a bit of a silly statement. The white audience for rap and hip-hop is enormous. Probably even larger than the black audience.

[KarmaContestant]

I think there are alot of African-American fans of Stevie and the Mac. I just don't think they shell out the cash to see them live because their are other artists that are more ingrained into their culture. For example, Etta James is playing here in Denver the same day that Stevie is at Red Rocks, and I'm sure there will be very few white people in the audience at that show.

I manage a retail store, and we play ALOT of Stevie and Mac in the store. I would venture to say that 70 percent of my customers are black, and it's so much fun when the black women come in and start doing a little dance to Stand Back or Dreams while they sing along. They always know the words. White customers never do that, they're too reserved and stuffy. :nod: One of my best friends, Santo, LOVES Stevie and would really like to go to Red Rocks with me, but he just bought his first home and is strapped for cash.

I remember when the FM reissues came out...I was listening to Beautiful Child, very loudly, as there were no customers in the store. This young black man decked to the hilt in hip-hop regalia came in, and I turned down the music. He said to me, "No man, you can jam, turn it back up!" So I did. He ended up listening to it, asked who it was, and so I showed him the CD. He said it was haunting and beautiful, and that he was off to go buy it. I love recruiting new fans. :)

The older generation of blacks doesn't seem to be too aware of Stevie or Fleetwood Mac, but the younger crowd is quite hip to them from what I've noticed. Most people's musical choices are influenced by what they heard while growing up, so it's really just a matter of exposure.

[bookie29]

I know this is not PC, but has anyone else noticed how FM seems to have no African American fan base? I don't think I have ever seen a black person at a FM/Stevie concert.

Sorry... I'm just thinking out loud I guess.

They have at least one African American fan... ME!! I have always loved Stevie/FM even before I knew who they were. I know what you mean though since I am usually the only one at the concerts that I attend. My partner, who is Mexican, and I are always looking for other people of color. By the way he is not really a fan but tolerates FM because I have brainwashed him somewhat.

Look for me at the LB Soundstage whenever that airs.

Sean

[wondergirl9847]

Look for me at the LB Soundstage whenever that airs.

Sean

I should have been there at Soundstage. :( STILL kicking myself.

Cool to know that people of all ages, races, religions, etc...love the Mac. :)

[sparky]

oh, and don't forget about Sparky.... ;)

That's me, a brutha all the way. :laugh:

You so silly, AMber.

[trackaghost]

I should have been there at Soundstage. :( STILL kicking myself.

Cool to know that people of all ages, races, religions, etc...love the Mac. :)


Let's get Lindsey to do a private concert just for us Christy. It will be 10 x better than Soundstage.

But back to the question, aren't Macy Gray and Destiny's Child fans of La Nicks?

[SteveMacD]

Anyway, pop music doesn't get much more "white" than Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac,
I somewhat disagree. I mean, ABBA is clearly "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac. Even during the Rumours-era, I think there was some grooving going on in the music, for example "You Make Loving Fun."
That said, I would venture the following guesses:

1) Fleetwood Mac probably has more black fans in Europe and Africa than they do in America.

2) Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac probably has more black fans than any other era of the band.
I would tend to agree on 1, but not necessarily on 2. If we're just talking about popularity in America, I still think the Rumours band would win, mainly because in America, that IS Fleetwood Mac.

Actually, I'd think Bob Welch would probably be more likely to have AA fans, as his stuff was more jazzy and funky. Bob's influences are as rooted in African American music as Peter Green's, maybe even moreso. But, Bob's influences are seen as still being relevant to many African Americans. Sadly, many African Americans write off the blues as being slave music, and don't realize its importance to American culture. Given the connotation of the blues for many African Americans, imagine how it must look to see a white person playing "the slave's" music. In fact, I'd say that a typical blues audience in my area is probably only 15-20% African American, regardless of who's on the bill (i.e. B.B. King or Buddy Guy). When I saw Peter Green in Cleveland, I think the audience was about 100% white.
Are there many classic rock bands that do have much of a black fan base, though? Are there many classic rock bands that have black people in them?
In terms of classic rock, the Allman Bros. have a black drummer, Eric Clapton has been touring with Nathan East for about twenty years, and we can't forget about Hendrix. The problem is that over the last fifteen years, the lines between various sects of popular music have become much more rigid. So, where would one put groups like War, Sly & The Family Stone, or Earth, Wind, & Fire? You can't tell me that people who were likely to buy a Fleetwood Mac album in the '70s weren't also likely to buy an Earth, Wind, & Fire album.

[chiliD]

Are there many classic rock bands that do have much of a black fan base, though? Are there many classic rock bands that have black people in them?

Holy cow, yes...see below


In terms of classic rock, the Allman Bros. have a black drummer, Eric Clapton has been touring with Nathan East for about twenty years, and we can't forget about Hendrix. The problem is that over the last fifteen years, the lines between various sects of popular music have become much more rigid. So, where would one put groups like War, Sly & The Family Stone, or Earth, Wind, & Fire? You can't tell me that people who were likely to buy a Fleetwood Mac album in the '70s weren't also likely to buy an Earth, Wind, & Fire album.

Beatles/Rolling Stones/Eric Clapton Band: um...hello? BILLY PRESTON!!!

Doobie Brothers: Bassist Tiran Porter; later to be replaced by Willie Weeks...then Tiran came back, then I haven't a clue who their bass player is now.

Dave Mason Band/Steve Miller Band: bassist Gerald Johnson (I'm surprised you didn't mention HIM, Steve-o!)

Jimi Hendrix's Band Of Gypsys was ALL-black: Buddy Miles, drums; Billy Cox, bass...and then there's the all-black rock band, LIVING COLOR ...guitarist Vernon Reid is the only member I know by name.

The Allman Bros have had TWO black bass players: the late Lamar Willams and currently Oteil Burbridge.

Current Rolling Stones bass player (and bass player in the first Sting solo band): Darryl Jones

And, while were talking Sting's first band: the late Kenny Kirkland, keyboards, sax player Branford Marsalis, drummer Omar Hakim, too. Background singers, Janice Pendarvis & Dolette McDonald

And, later, drummer Manu Katche' (who previously had been in Peter Gabriel's band)

E-Street Band: CLARENCE CLEAMONS...and ex-E Street-er, ex-Sting band, ex-Eric Clapton Band keyboardist David Sancious

Santana's had more black members than I can even remember...original bass player, Dave Brown...singer Greg Walker (from the late '70's/early 80's incarnation)...keyboardist Leon Patillo (from the mid-70's incarnation.

And, Fleetwood Mac & Stevie Nicks have had black members of their touring entourage:

Eliscia Wright, Lynn Mabry, Lenny Castro, Bobby Hunt, Bobbye Hall...the bass player for Stevie's Street Angel & Enchanted tours, whose name I've forgotten...oh, wait...yeah...Don Boyette. And, Lindsey's bass player on the OotC tour...another space out on a name. Bob Welch's drummer for French Kiss and Three Hearts albums, Alvin Taylor

Ex-Animals lead singer Eric Burdon had an all-black backup band in the mid-70's (the Eric Burdon Band)...of which the aforementioned Alvin Taylor was the drummer.


It just seems ridiculous to even have to mention these people as "being black". It's the music that comes out of 'em, not the color of their skin.

[dissention]

Holy cow, yes...see below



Beatles/Rolling Stones/Eric Clapton Band: um...hello? BILLY PRESTON!!!

Doobie Brothers: Bassist Tiran Porter; later to be replaced by Willie Weeks...then Tiran came back, then I haven't a clue who their bass player is now.

Dave Mason Band/Steve Miller Band: bassist Gerald Johnson (I'm surprised you didn't mention HIM, Steve-o!)

Jimi Hendrix's Band Of Gypsys was ALL-black: Buddy Miles, drums; Billy Cox, bass...and then there's the all-black rock band, LIVING COLOR ...guitarist Vernon Reid is the only member I know by name.

The Allman Bros have had TWO black bass players: the late Lamar Willams and currently Oteil Burbridge.

Current Rolling Stones bass player (and bass player in the first Sting solo band): Darryl Jones

And, while were talking Sting's first band: the late Kenny Kirkland, keyboards, sax player Branford Marsalis, drummer Omar Hakim, too. Background singers, Janice Pendarvis & Dolette McDonald

And, later, drummer Manu Katche' (who previously had been in Peter Gabriel's band)

E-Street Band: CLARENCE CLEAMONS...and ex-E Street-er, ex-Sting band, ex-Eric Clapton Band keyboardist David Sancious

Santana's had more black members than I can even remember...original bass player, Dave Brown...singer Greg Walker (from the late '70's/early 80's incarnation)...keyboardist Leon Patillo (from the mid-70's incarnation.

And, Fleetwood Mac & Stevie Nicks have had black members of their touring entourage:

Eliscia Wright, Lynn Mabry, Lenny Castro, Bobby Hunt, Bobbye Hall...the bass player for Stevie's Street Angel & Enchanted tours, whose name I've forgotten...oh, wait...yeah...Don Boyette. And, Lindsey's bass player on the OotC tour...another space out on a name. Bob Welch's drummer for French Kiss and Three Hearts albums, Alvin Taylor

Ex-Animals lead singer Eric Burdon had an all-black backup band in the mid-70's (the Eric Burdon Band)...of which the aforementioned Alvin Taylor was the drummer.


It just seems ridiculous to even have to mention these people. It's the music that comes out of 'em, not the color of their skin.

Hey! Don't forget Randy Jackson in Journey!

[chiliD]

My list was FAR, FAR, FAR from "complete". :thumbsup:

[amber]

My list was FAR, FAR, FAR from "complete". :thumbsup:
Still, I don't think bunches of AFA's like those bands.... :shrug:

[SteveMacD]

Hey! Don't forget Randy Jackson in Journey!
Hell, I've BEEN trying to forget about that! Randy Jackson in tight leather pants. Sorry, but there's not enough beer in Milwuakee to make me think that was a good idea!

[SteveMacD]

later to be replaced by Willie Weeks

Dave Mason Band/Steve Miller Band: bassist Gerald Johnson (I'm surprised you didn't mention HIM, Steve-o!)

Ex-Animals lead singer Eric Burdon had an all-black backup band in the mid-70's (the Eric Burdon Band)...of which the aforementioned Alvin Taylor was the drummer.
FYI, Willie Weeks also played on Billy Burnette's "Coming Home" album. For that matter, Nathan East played on Bob Welch's s/t album. And, let's not forget Greg Wright of The Zoo! While not a "rock" album per se, can I mention Fleetwood Mac In Chicago? I'd mention "The Visitor," but this discussion is about African AMERICANS, and those folks were Africans.

As for Gerald Johnson, I actually didn't know he was black. I've never seen a picture of him. Hey, I didn't have a lot to work with when I had that Dave Mason site!

Finally, dont' forget that it was Eric Burdon who actually founded War!

[wondergirl9847]

Let's get Lindsey to do a private concert just for us Christy. It will be 10 x better than Soundstage.

I'm so there, Sharon!! I. am. so. there! It has to be in London too. Hehe!

BTW, I chatted with a black dude at Best Buy once about FM. I was looking at their CDs and he goes "You like FM, you're too young!" I told him I was 27 (at the time, I was) and he told me he used to listen to them when he was in the Army. He liked the blues FM. :)

[SteveMacD]

Still, I don't think bunches of AFA's like those bands.... :shrug:
It's hard to say. They don't collect demographic information from Soundscan. However, it was a two-part question, and we answered the only part that anybody really could answer.

[amber]

It's hard to say. They don't collect demographic information from Soundscan. However, it was a two-part question, and we answered the only part that anybody really could answer.
Fair enough. I really doubt there are many, though, judging from what I've heard/seen. No big.

[Serrart]

I think there are alot of African-American fans of Stevie and the Mac. I just don't think they shell out the cash to see them live because their are other artists that are more ingrained into their culture. For example, Etta James is playing here in Denver the same day that Stevie is at Red Rocks, and I'm sure there will be very few white people in the audience at that show.

Etta James and Stevie Nicks the same day?!?!?! And I'll miss them both, Yippeee! :mad:

Romy

[SteveMacD]

Etta James and Stevie Nicks the same day?!?!?! And I'll miss them both, Yippeee! :mad:
Ouch. I feel your pain. Although, I don't know if I could make the decision as to who I'd see. Stevie is a member of my favorite band, but Etta is a major influence on my favorite band. I'd probably choose Etta only because I haven't had the opportunity to see her live, whereas I've seen Stevie six times (once solo).

[chiliD]

Oh...also forgot CSNY's original bass player, Fuzzy Samuels

[estranged4life]

I have met several who happen to love Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks:

When Deb was first having diagnosis of her cancer I met one lady who was a ER RN who noticed my Rumours t-shirt and asked "Is that Stevie Nicks on your shirt? I love Ms. Stevie..." She proceeded to sing "Gypsy" in her Jamacian accent as she worked the ER floor :nod:

Last June when I was filling out paperwork before my throat surgery the receptionist noticed my Fleetwood Mac "SYW" t-shirt and asked "when/where did you see the Mac?" I told her I bought the shirt at the OKC show...She 'bout had a cow cause she said she never heard their concert being advertised on TV/radio (Which was true! It wasnt advertised period!). We sat for about 10-15 minutes talking about FM and how her whole family would've died had they known FM played OKC.

At the 2004 Dallas show a couple sat directly behind me and knew the lyrics to even the SYW tracks...That was cool!!!

[Serrart]

Ouch. I feel your pain.

Thanks. :)

Although, I don't know if I could make the decision as to who I'd see. Stevie is a member of my favorite band, but Etta is a major influence on my favorite band. I'd probably choose Etta only because I haven't had the opportunity to see her live, whereas I've seen Stevie six times (once solo).

I haven't seen live any of them and It would be a very hard decision for me too, Etta James gives me the same sensations singing that Glenn Gould gives me playing Bach. But Stevie Nicks emotionally right now is even more involving. I mean the lady is making me sing all around Hotel California and New York Minute and Don Henley wasn't really my cup of tea before these concerts. I'd be heading to Red Rocks to see my first Stevie solo show... hoping that you'd bring a recorder to Etta's. :D.

Romy

[WelshWitchPMD]

Even when I saw FM in Atlanta (which has a heavy African American community) I didn't see one black person at the concert....




I did at the Gwinnett show Sept 2003. There was a couple in the same row as myself (4th) but more in the center. They were really into it too! It was funny because the lady seemed to be more into Stevie and the gentleman was more into Lindsey and totally rocking out to Come! :thumbsup:

Also there was a gentleman in the front row at the East Rutherford, NJ show in May of 2003 who had roses for Stevie.

[amber]

I have met several who happen to love Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks:

When Deb was first having diagnosis of her cancer I met one lady who was a ER RN who noticed my Rumours t-shirt and asked "Is that Stevie Nicks on your shirt? I love Ms. Stevie..." She proceeded to sing "Gypsy" in her Jamacian accent as she worked the ER floor :nod:

Last June when I was filling out paperwork before my throat surgery the receptionist noticed my Fleetwood Mac "SYW" t-shirt and asked "when/where did you see the Mac?" I told her I bought the shirt at the OKC show...She 'bout had a cow cause she said she never heard their concert being advertised on TV/radio (Which was true! It wasnt advertised period!). We sat for about 10-15 minutes talking about FM and how her whole family would've died had they known FM played OKC.

At the 2004 Dallas show a couple sat directly behind me and knew the lyrics to even the SYW tracks...That was cool!!!
My (AFA) friend just stopped by, and she loved this story. She was cracking up at the Jamaican lady.... :thumbsup:

[DownOnRodeo]

I was preoccupied with the apparent abundance of Anonymous Alcoholics.

Hey, we have feelings, too, you know. :wavey: :woohoo:

[cliffdweller]

Hey! Don't forget Randy Jackson in Journey!

Oh lord, don't remind me of that spandex pic! :laugh::laugh:

[dontlookdown]

this is an odd thread - bordering on un-PCness I think but -


What about Macy Gray?!

She's a fan!

[SteveMacD]

this is an odd thread - bordering on un-PCness I think but -
In all honesty, most people who are in a minority demographic with whom I've either had a personal or professional relationship haven't cared about the whole PC thing. At the end of the day, everybody, regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual preference, wants to be treated with dignity and respect. The rest of it, the PC part of it, is mostly just an academic exercise that really hasn't benefitted anybody. And, most people have a sense of humor about their particular demographic group. Just look at the gays and lesbians on this board. There's a discussion over on the chit-chat board about what famous/historical figure certain ledgies resemble. There was a debate over one male Ledgie being more like Paul Lynde or Bea Arthur, and said Ledgie thought either was pretty funny. In any event, I don't think anybody has been disrespectful in this thread.

[darklinensuit]

Hey! Don't forget Randy Jackson in Journey!

I honestly thought of that but wasn't sure that Journey is considered classic rock.
Feeling old.

- Jake

[amber]

I honestly thought of that but wasn't sure that Journey is considered classic rock.
Feeling old.

- Jake
You should pick up a subscription to Der magazine...

[Jyqm]

this is an odd thread - bordering on un-PCness I think but -

Heavens no!

Seriously, life is short, don't waste your time worrying that hypothetical people might be hypothetically mildly offended by posts on an Internet message board. I don't think there's been a single actual complaint in this thread about anybody feeling at all put out by an open discussion of the impact of race on pop culture demographics.

[skcin]

I don't think it's Un-PC at all. :shrug: We're not making racist comments, or saying anything derogatory about anyone. It's an honest question posed by a fan. Nobody has been offended who has posted - and why would they be?

Bookie29 didn't seem to be upset about Chris' curiousity. Welcome, btw! :wavey:

[amber]

I don't think t's Un-PC at all. :shrug: We're not making racist comments, or saying anything derogatory about anyone. It's an honest question posed by a fan. Nobody has been offended who has posted - and why would they be?
Chocolate.

[skcin]

Chocolate.


Stop it. ;)

[SteveMacD]

Chocolate.

Mmmmm....chocolate.....
http://www.macdesktops.com/Previews/BC01HomerPreview240.jpg

:shocked: Wait a second...We were having a conversation about...

http://www.c-webb.20fr.com/homer_screaming.jpg

Okay, I'm going to step back slowly, and then I'm going to start running like hell...http://emoticons4u.informationalot.com/cartoon/1279.gif

[darklinensuit]

I don't think it's Un-PC at all. :shrug:

Me neither. Some of my best friends are Fleetwood Mac fans. ;)

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

You should pick up a subscription to Der magazine...

Why, are you on the centerfold? :wavey:

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

To add to the list of famous African Americans who love Fleetwood Mac... meteorologist Mark McEwan (formerly on CBS's 'The Early Show') is a major Stevie fan. :nod:

[Tango]

Does FM have any African American fans?

The simple answer is no, not a single one. If they even listen to their music, it must be done in secret. I hope this answers this question once and for all. :shrug:

[amber]

Why, are you on the centerfold? :wavey:

- Jake
No, I'm the editor.

[seeker007nmss]

No, I'm the editor.

Then why does your picture have a staple in the middle? :D

[amber]

Then why does your picture have a staple in the middle? :D
Why are you still staring at it?

[diamondsnake]

Does FM have any African American fans?

The simple answer is no, not a single one. If they even listen to their music, it must be done in secret. I hope this answers this question once and for all. :shrug:
Sheesh! I didn't mean to offend you.

[seeker007nmss]

Why are you still staring at it?

I am trying to figure out how you got into that position. :nod: And why the Clown shoes. :shocked:

[golddustwoman77]

My best friend's ex girlfriend (who is African American) is a HUGE Fleetwood Mac fan. She also likes the Eagles. She asked me to burn her some Fleetwood Mac and Eagles stuff, because someone stole hers. :laugh: Of course, I burned her a lot of Mac stuff. We can't have a Mac fan without their music, can we?! :D

[WelshWitchPMD]

My best friend's ex girlfriend (who is African American) is a HUGE Fleetwood Mac fan. She also likes the Eagles. She asked me to burn her some Fleetwood Mac and Eagles stuff, because someone stole hers. :laugh: Of course, I burned her a lot of Mac stuff. We can't have a Mac fan without their music, can we?! :D


I saw four of them at the Stevie/Don show in Mansfield, Ma. 3 of them even bought a VIP package.

[bluecalmsea]

Yes, bumping another old thread to add to it... ;)

This is funny~ I fall into a rare category of Stevie fans, relatively young (27) and I'm black haha. Completely obsessed too, and hoping to catch them on tour twice this year, once on each coast. I actually just found my old, forgotten fansite I made dedicated to Stevie when I was 16. I can't even share it, it's so embarrassing!!! (Cat Dancer plays automatically on one of the pages)

I was at the mall yesterday and stopped at the makeup counter and was chatting with the saleswoman (also black) about the music they were playing. She asked me who my favorite group was and I said "this will sound strange, but Fleetwood Mac" is practically all I listen to!" She said she loves them too and that the world stops for her when she hears the song "Dreams."

Every black person I have talked to about FM tells me they love "Dreams" :laugh:

Even still, I have never personally known another non-white FM fan. Doesn't change anything for me, of course! :xoxo:

[redbird]

I'm not black, but I'm not white either, and I'm a fan, so nice to meet you bluecalmsea :)

Kanye West is a fan, I believe.

[bluecalmsea]

I'm not black, but I'm not white either, and I'm a fan, so nice to meet you bluecalmsea :)

Kanye West is a fan, I believe.

Nice to meet you too! :wavey:

[WatchChain]

This is an interesting thread. I listen to a lot of music by black artists and when I attend their concerts, there are usually white people there.

Throughout the years, I have attended numerous Fleetwood Mac shows as well as solo concerts by Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie. The only black people that I've seen at these concerts were employees of the venue and members of the stage band: Eliscia Wright, Bobbye Hall, Lynn Mabry, etc... So, no I have never seen a black audience member. I guess our black sisters and brothers just don't feel the need to groove to chiffon, tambourines, heavy handed guitar solos, California Pop, British Humour, Welsh Witches, White Elephant Tusks, platform boots and big love.

Also, as one someone previously stated, I LOVES ME SOME BOBBYE HALL !! "She is OFF THE CHAIN !!!" I sure wish Stevie would bring back Ms. Bobbye Hall for her next solo tour. That hot mama has rhythm!!!!

[cantgoback]

I have an African American friend, and she was temporarily living with her aunt and her uncle, and her aunt found a mix CD I made for her, and her aunt said "Stevie Nicks is a devil worshipper!" And of course, she took the mix CD and threw it away. We were both so PISSED! :(

...what the hell...

[Jondalar]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

[bluecalmsea]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

I don't get that impression at all! Just someone making an observation about fans, I think! :cool:

[SteveMacD]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

No...Just VERY Anglo-Saxon.

[Fireflies]

as a person of color, this offends me.

[chriskisn]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

It is interesting that racism always raises its head when the difference between cultures is mentioned. Like it or not, people from different cultures, backgrounds etc like different styles of music.

[GypsySorcerer]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

Well, considering that the person who started the thread (way back in 2005 :eek: ) was a teenager then, I highly doubt that was his intention.

[McTrouble]

as a person of color, this offends me.

I am not surprised - it's a totally weird and unnecessary thread!

[redbird]

I think some people in this thread are confusing colorblindness with political correctness. For whatever it's worth, and that may not be much, I can't think of many activists I've encountered who would say that the two are the same thing.

As for why this might be, rock and roll was birthed out of musical traditions of black Americans (although of course there were important influences from the Appalachian folk/country tradition) but popularized for the white mainstream by white artists. Perhaps when that happened that music could no longer speak of the specific experiences of a disenfranchised minority so they continually sought out newer forms of expression. It's hard to separate art from sociology IMO, if you really want to understand it, even though it might be more comfortable to ignore the latter.

There's something possibly to the fact too that if you never see another non-white person at a Fleetwood Mac concert you might not ever feel like it's your place to be. There was an interesting article I read recently at MTVhive.com called "The Only Black Guy at the Indie Rock Concert" that talks about what an analogue of that might feel like. The author is probably not literally the only one, but it's easy to see how he sure could feel like it.

Anyway, things get branded as "for" these people or "for" those people. Some of it is maybe grounded in truth (it was hip-hop music that spoke for the experiences of urban black America in the 80's and 90's, more than other genres, so why would people who live that reality find other genres that don't even acknowledge those realities more relatable?) and some of it is less so. But once that happens it can be a self-feeding cycle. I think the thing that hip-hop and rap was able to do especially the 1990's was come across not only as "for black people" but also "for young people", because it was young and new, it was the new kid on the block. So a lot of young people can identify with hip-hop through a generational identity regardless of race. Rock music OTOH hasn't been the new kid on the block since the 1950's, the only thing that's going to appear edgy to kids now is either very hard rock or very experimental/obscure rock.

I'm aware that I've spoken in gross generalizations and nothing should be taken to apply to every single person ever. Individual variations always happen. Uh, I'll just end with a shout out to Skeetwood Mac, The Melker Project's mashup tribute to Rumours that features a lot of current hip-hop artists like Rihanna, Ciara, Jay-Z, Ludacris, 2 Chainz, etc. If mashups are your thing then some of these are really successful.

[dreamer78]

What happened to Bobbi Hall?

[vivfox]

What happened to Bobbie Hall?


A few weeks ago she lifted a pic of Stevie and Mick off of Sara Fleetwood's FB page that I had posted there.

[QueenStevie]

Is the point of this thread to somehow insuate that Fleetwood Mac's music is racist?

Musical artists usually aren't a racist bunch.

[Musicman408]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iaNwKRcR6O8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[louielouie2000]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iaNwKRcR6O8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That was really beautiful, thanks for sharing. :nod:

[SpyNote]

I think some people in this thread are confusing colorblindness with political correctness. For whatever it's worth, and that may not be much, I can't think of many activists I've encountered who would say that the two are the same thing.

As for why this might be, rock and roll was birthed out of musical traditions of black Americans (although of course there were important influences from the Appalachian folk/country tradition) but popularized for the white mainstream by white artists. Perhaps when that happened that music could no longer speak of the specific experiences of a disenfranchised minority so they continually sought out newer forms of expression. It's hard to separate art from sociology IMO, if you really want to understand it, even though it might be more comfortable to ignore the latter.

There's something possibly to the fact too that if you never see another non-white person at a Fleetwood Mac concert you might not ever feel like it's your place to be. There was an interesting article I read recently at MTVhive.com called "The Only Black Guy at the Indie Rock Concert" that talks about what an analogue of that might feel like. The author is probably not literally the only one, but it's easy to see how he sure could feel like it.

Anyway, things get branded as "for" these people or "for" those people. Some of it is maybe grounded in truth (it was hip-hop music that spoke for the experiences of urban black America in the 80's and 90's, more than other genres, so why would people who live that reality find other genres that don't even acknowledge those realities more relatable?) and some of it is less so. But once that happens it can be a self-feeding cycle. I think the thing that hip-hop and rap was able to do especially the 1990's was come across not only as "for black people" but also "for young people", because it was young and new, it was the new kid on the block. So a lot of young people can identify with hip-hop through a generational identity regardless of race. Rock music OTOH hasn't been the new kid on the block since the 1950's, the only thing that's going to appear edgy to kids now is either very hard rock or very experimental/obscure rock.

I'm aware that I've spoken in gross generalizations and nothing should be taken to apply to every single person ever. Individual variations always happen. Uh, I'll just end with a shout out to Skeetwood Mac, The Melker Project's mashup tribute to Rumours that features a lot of current hip-hop artists like Rihanna, Ciara, Jay-Z, Ludacris, 2 Chainz, etc. If mashups are your thing then some of these are really successful.

Wow, this thread originated in 2005!

As one of those minorities, I actually read every post in this thread, and yours resonated with me the most. It is, indeed, a strange feeling to be one of few non-whites at a Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac, particularly in a metropolitan area where it tends to be more of a mixed crowd. But that's not really the case with Stevie or Mac. It's generally 98% white and 2% everybody else. But feeling uncomfortable in this setting is my own personal issue. I just don't like to stick out or draw attention at a concert. I'm just there for the music, like everybody else. But I have never experienced any racism at any Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac concert. And the Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac fans that I've met in person have always welcomed me with open arms.

[redbird]

I dug out this article that I really liked in Pop Matters, We Were the World: 85 Word Aboard the Crossover Express (http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/121173-we-were-the-world-86-words-aboard-the-crossover-express). It talks about the cultural politics of music from a (not "the", as if there was only one legitimate one) black American perspective with much more authority than I can.

My dad and my uncles were among the first generation of recognizably educated black men. They were high-brow intellectuals with an image to maintain in the Chicago black community. During my toddler years, they mixed in their “white” albums and eight track tapes with communally acceptable black artists. Sinatra, Lanie Kazan, and the Association (yep—“[they] harmonized as good as the Dells,” swore my Uncle Jeff) were their kiddie porn, black people’s “race music”. It was music not be shared in “same” company, racially speaking; a fetish that could cause huge embarrassment and misunderstanding amongst “the peeps”, especially for my black nationalist, black is beautiful, “death to whitey” Uncle Jeff. They had no problem with their reading of Playboy and Esquire being public knowledge, but “that” music was listened to at low volume and with windows—car and home—closed, and was their way of setting themselves apart (and maybe a little above) their working and middle class cousins and neighbors.

Come the ‘70s, and the walls of my bedroom walls blared out with Sean Cassidy, David Bowie, and the Average White Band competing for space alongside Bootsy Collins, a shirtless and unsanctified Al Green, and the Jackson 5. Apartheid in music had vanished, “crossover” was the order of the day, and even some country spun on the turntables at black radio stations. I could go my own way, indeed.

...

We debated openly the messy politics of sexual lust and the respectful co-opting of “race music” as American race and sex politics in became less honorable and more contemptible each passing day until the ‘70s ended.

The ‘80s brought an unabashed and proudly apartheid moment in music. MTV entrenched itself. Music was to be seen and not heard. Artists that looked more carnival geek (hello, Joe Jackson) or over 30 (goodbye, Fleetwood Mac), no matter the beauty and intellect in notes and lyrics, found themselves the musical equivalent of a televangelist, stuck in the 3AM time slot, if their videos rotated at all—as was the case for black artists looking for purchase on MTV. Corporate entities that produced wire hangers and air fresheners bought up every radio station in America, leaving behind a hard-wired playlist not to be diverted from. Music for the respectable misogynist/racist/ageist/homophobe became the flagship of the American Cultural Armada.

The whole thing is a good read, IMO, and good food for thought. It speaks to the fluid dynamics at play when culture meets art (and when doesn't it?).

[SteveMacD]

The ‘80s brought an unabashed and proudly apartheid moment in music. MTV entrenched itself. Music was to be seen and not heard. Artists that looked more carnival geek (hello, Joe Jackson) or over 30 (goodbye, Fleetwood Mac), no matter the beauty and intellect in notes and lyrics, found themselves the musical equivalent of a televangelist, stuck in the 3AM time slot, if their videos rotated at all—as was the case for black artists looking for purchase on MTV.
The only problem is that that's not exactly true. Fleetwood Mac's videos got lots of play on MTV. "Little Lies" even topped the MTV video charts. It was an MTV special that brought the classic Fleetwood Mac back. Solo Stevie, Don Henley, Glen Frey, Tom Petty, the Traveling Wilburys, Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Genesis, etc, all were in heavy rotation.

As for black artists on MTV, I think "Thriller" is still considered the most successful video of all time. I watched a lot of MTV, and I never really thought they had a racial diversity deficit. Look at the mainstream success of hip hop. You don't think Yo! MTV Raps! had anything to do with that?

MTV can be partially blamed for the downfall of popular music to some extent, but I think MTV actually did more to narrow the racial divide in the culture of music than not.

[Hard Road]

I am African-American and I love Fleetwood Mac. I got into the Mac by listening to their music during AM radio during the mid to late 70's as a kid. My first FM album I actually purchased was Tango In The Night. I went back over the years and got all of the Fleetwood Mac albums. I love the Green era and the Kirwan/Welch era too!

I saw the FM in Mountain View, Ca on the Dance tour. I did not pay too much attention but I did notice that there was not that many African-American fans there at all. At the end of the day I go for the music and not to see if there are a lot of black folks there.

[gypsy333]

Mary J. Blige said she liked Stevie's voice....Dr. Dre was interviewed in the studio once and Rumours was playing and he made the comment, "That's the real deal"...Destiny's Child and Beyonce asked Stevie to be in Bootylicious,...and Queen Latifah once introduced Stevie as, "my girl, Stevie Nicks.....

[vivfox]

Dr. Dre was interviewed in the studio once and Rumours was playing and he made the comment, "That's the real deal"


Thank you for this info. It's music to my ears.

[GoldDustBoy]

Mary J. Blige said she liked Stevie's voice....Dr. Dre was interviewed in the studio once and Rumours was playing and he made the comment, "That's the real deal"...Destiny's Child and Beyonce asked Stevie to be in Bootylicious,...and Queen Latifah once introduced Stevie as, "my girl, Stevie Nicks.....

Queen Latifah's song Cue The Rain borrows lyrics from The Chain. Stevie is credited as one of the writers.

[redbird]

The only problem is that that's not exactly true. Fleetwood Mac's videos got lots of play on MTV. "Little Lies" even topped the MTV video charts. It was an MTV special that brought the classic Fleetwood Mac back. Solo Stevie, Don Henley, Glen Frey, Tom Petty, the Traveling Wilburys, Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Genesis, etc, all were in heavy rotation.

As for black artists on MTV, I think "Thriller" is still considered the most successful video of all time. I watched a lot of MTV, and I never really thought they had a racial diversity deficit. Look at the mainstream success of hip hop. You don't think Yo! MTV Raps! had anything to do with that?

MTV can be partially blamed for the downfall of popular music to some extent, but I think MTV actually did more to narrow the racial divide in the culture of music than not.

Because the author implied that Lindsey's and Stevie's solo careers followed, I assume she is talking specifically about the early 80's. In the early 80's it was definitely a recognized criticism of MTV that they did not play many black artists:

MTV was called to task on the air in 1983 for its lack of black artists by none other than David Bowie. At about the same time, MTV famously refused to air Rick James' "Superfreak" video. It defended itself by claiming it wasn't a rock song. - source (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/vigilante.jackson/)

SuperStation WTBS launched Night Tracks on June 3, 1983, with up to 14 hours of music video airplay each late night weekend by 1985. Its most noticeable difference was that black artists received airplay that MTV initially ignored. - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV#Following_concepts_.281981-1992.29)

MTV's original head of talent and artist relations, Carolyn Baker, who was black, had questioned why the definition of music had to be so narrow, as had a few others. What's more, as MTV received more and more press attention, a growing number of journalists and music critics and black artists really began to slam the network for its segregated view of music. True, the critics said, album rock stations didn't play many black acts, either. But other radio formats did, and black music was still widely available on the radio. MTV, on the other hand, was still the only music video channel on television, and therefore, according to the critics, it had an obligation to expose black acts and to educate its viewers to what else was out there.

Perhaps the most vocal critic of MTV was black musician Rick James. Despite the fact that his most recent album, Street Songs, had sold more than three million copies in 1982, MTV had passed on clips for his songs "Super Freak" and "Give It To Me Baby."The funk star clearly wasn't pleased by what he considered a snub, so in early 1983 he took every opportunity to publicly call MTV a racist network. - source (http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id127.htm)

When Michael Jackson came along, he was already an established star. That was good for all. He put a lot of money into the 'Billie Jean' video. It looked great and better than everything else that had ever come out. MTV executives to this day contended they added the video right out of the box, there was never any doubt. Everyone else, including all the record company executives and Jackson's manager said that's not true. Walter Yetnikoff, who was the very powerful head of CBS Record, said to [MTV head] Bob Pittman, "If you don't play Michael Jackson's video, we're gonna pull all our videos from rotation," which would have been a significant loss for MTV. - source (http://www.spinner.com/2011/12/08/i-want-my-mtv-oral-history/)

So it seems to me like it was definitely a struggle to get MTV to respect black artists initially. And even once Michael Jackson changed that, it could still have been in the memories of audiences and artists alike. MTV helped once black artists stood up for themselves and demanded better treatment.

[elle]

Queen Latifah's song Cue The Rain borrows lyrics from The Chain. Stevie is credited as one of the writers.

yes:

CUE THE RAIN songwriters listed are:

BUCKINGHAM LINDSEY
FLEETWOOD MICHAEL
LYON ANDRE CHRISTOPHER
MC VIE CHRISTINE
MC VIE JOHN GRAHAM
MONTILLA EDWARD JOHN
NICKS STEPHANIE
OWENS DANA E
VALENZANO MARCELLO ANTONIO

Performer: QUEEN LATIFAH

[Dreamz19]

The only problem is that that's not exactly true. Fleetwood Mac's videos got lots of play on MTV. "Little Lies" even topped the MTV video charts. It was an MTV special that brought the classic Fleetwood Mac back. Solo Stevie, Don Henley, Glen Frey, Tom Petty, the Traveling Wilburys, Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Genesis, etc, all were in heavy rotation.

As for black artists on MTV, I think "Thriller" is still considered the most successful video of all time. I watched a lot of MTV, and I never really thought they had a racial diversity deficit. Look at the mainstream success of hip hop. You don't think Yo! MTV Raps! had anything to do with that?

MTV can be partially blamed for the downfall of popular music to some extent, but I think MTV actually did more to narrow the racial divide in the culture of music than not.

Because the author implied that Lindsey's and Stevie's solo careers followed, I assume she is talking specifically about the early 80's. In the early 80's it was definitely a recognized criticism of MTV that they did not play many black artists:

- source (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/vigilante.jackson/)

- source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV#Following_concepts_.281981-1992.29)

- source (http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id127.htm)

- source (http://www.spinner.com/2011/12/08/i-want-my-mtv-oral-history/)

So it seems to me like it was definitely a struggle to get MTV to respect black artists initially. And even once Michael Jackson changed that, it could still have been in the memories of audiences and artists alike. MTV helped once black artists stood up for themselves and demanded better treatment.

You're correct Redbird. Quincy Jones and Micheal Jackson spoke about having issues getting MTV to play MJ's videos in the early 80s. Quincy did an interview right after Micheal died and talked about it again. MTV's resistance to showing more black artist is one of the reasons BET started showing music videos in the early 80s. As for Yo MTV Raps, that show premiered in the late 80s and by then MTV had changed their views. So when it comes to what happened in the late 80s, I agree with Steve that MTV did help to bring hip hop mainstream.