Should Stevie have left the Mac with Lindsey in the 80s?

[trackaghost]

I was watching a TOSOTM-era Stevie interview the other day, another where she was welling up with tears about all she had given up for her career and the Mac, and how Mick expected her to be back in the studio the following week despite the fact she had just been on tour in Europe, and it occured to me, why didn't she just give up the Mac when Lindsey did?

I realise it was loyalty on her part but after Tango the stuff she was doing with the Mac wasn't her best (although I know some of it have become fan favourites) and she would have benefited at that point just concentrating on her solo career.

If you think about it, if she had rested after making Tango and the RAL tour, rather than gone back out on the road, she probably wouldn't have caved in and taken klonopin and would have been much healthier in mind, body and spirit. Plus I think her songwriting would have benefited from not having the pressures of her Mac workload and probably her romantic life too.

The Mac on the other hand would probably got on fine without her, those were Christine's years really. I guess some people may disagree on this point - Stevie is a big draw in the States but I think they could have survived.

The more I think about it, I think Stevie should have left the band when Lindsey did. Those huge Mac world tours, the klonopin and all that rushing back and forward between her two careers stifled her creativity IMO. She should have just left it all behind like Lindsey did, and got on with her own life and her solo career.

What do you all think?

[amber]

Stevie should never do anything with LIndsey. :laugh: But seriously, she probably should have, though I don't think it would have necessarily made her work better, cause of the Klonopin. But it would have been easier on her psyche, I'm sure.

[trackaghost]

Stevie should never do anything with LIndsey. :laugh: But seriously, she probably should have, though I don't think it would have necessarily made her work better, cause of the Klonopin. But it would have been easier on her psyche, I'm sure.

I dunno, I think there would have been less reason for her to take the klonopin if she hadn't been on the road or about to go on tour (I don't know when exactly it started). I'm sure the pressure of that, certainly helped her make her decision. She probably thought, I don't want to let the band down.

[Serrart]

I was watching a TOSOTM-era Stevie interview the other day, another where she was welling up with tears about all she had given up for her career and the Mac, and how Mick expected her to be back in the studio the following week despite the fact she had just been on tour in Europe, and it occured to me, why didn't she just give up the Mac when Lindsey did?

I realise it was loyalty on her part but after Tango the stuff she was doing with the Mac wasn't her best (although I know some of it have become fan favourites) and she would have benefited at that point just concentrating on her solo career.

If you think about it, if she had rested after making Tango and the RAL tour, rather than gone back out on the road, she probably wouldn't have caved in and taken klonopin and would have been much healthier in mind, body and spirit. Plus I think her songwriting would have benefited from not having the pressures of her Mac workload and probably her romantic life too.

The Mac on the other hand would probably got on fine without her, those were Christine's years really. I guess some people may disagree on this point - Stevie is a big draw in the States but I think they could have survived.

The more I think about it, I think Stevie should have left the band when Lindsey did. Those huge Mac world tours, the klonopin and all that rushing back and forward between her two careers stifled her creativity IMO. She should have just left it all behind like Lindsey did, and got on with her own life and her solo career.

What do you all think?

Can't really say. :shrug: I admire the person and the artist she is now, who came out from the path we know. What person would have become going her own way in 1987? Besides, I respect her for the loyalty she showed in that occasion. It would have been far easier to say: "Okay, I guess it's over, Bye guys!". Great lady. :nod:

Romy

[amber]

I dunno, I think there would have been less reason for her to take the klonopin if she hadn't been on the road or about to go on tour (I don't know when exactly it started). I'm sure the pressure of that, certainly helped her make her decision. She probably thought, I don't want to let the band down.
Erm, from what I've read, her doctor just automatically prescribed it for her right away to help with the drug withdrawal, not because she said she was depressed, or overworked, or anything.

[SteveMacD]

Personally, I don't think she should have ever left Fleetwood Mac in the first place. As much as I loved the whole "Time" band and as much as I think Stevie's fairly lethargic performances were hurting the band (at least in 1990), I think that period really hurt the band and Stevie. I think a tour with the BTM band, minus Christine, would have served their joint interests much better than what actually happened.

Stevie gave her reasons for leaving Fleetwood Mac as she didn't want to be the only "Rumours" vocalist still in the band and that she didn't want to be in the band without Lindsey. Which is fine, but she then preceded to make a pretty crappy album on her own that hurt her credibility and forced the band to coninue without her, releasing an album that hurt its credibility. So, really, her decision really only hurt everybody. I think the BTM band should have made an album in 1994 and Mick, John, Stevie, Billy, & Rick should have toured throughout 1994 and 1995 in support of said album.

[Serrart]

Stevie gave her reasons for leaving Fleetwood Mac as she didn't want to be the only "Rumours" vocalist still in the band and that she didn't want to be in the band without Lindsey. Which is fine, but she then preceded to make a pretty crappy album on her own that hurt her credibility and forced the band to coninue without her, releasing an album that hurt its credibility. So, really, her decision really only hurt everybody. I think the BTM band should have made an album in 1994 and Mick, John, Stevie, Billy, & Rick should have toured throughout 1994 and 1995 in support of said album.

How could have she forced the band to continue without her? Threats? Prayers? Spells? Serenades?

Romy

[SteveMacD]

How could have she forced the band to continue without her? Threats? Prayers? Spells? Serenades?
Well, typically when somebody quits a band, the band is forced to continue without said person. :rolleyes:

I suppose they could have broken up, but with all the free publicity they enjoyed in 1993, how could Mick and John NOT have gone out with Fleetwood Mac? They would have been more crazy to not doing anything than putting together a new version of Fleetwood Mac. Anyway, breaking up Fleetwood Mac is just not Mick's style. Sure, he said he did it in 1996, but come on, he was already working with Lindsey again at that point. So, he wasn't REALLY breaking the band up, he was getting the band back together.

[glitter_fades]

Erm, from what I've read, her doctor just automatically prescribed it for her right away to help with the drug withdrawal, not because she said she was depressed, or overworked, or anything.

Ahh ya. That's what she says. She uses the word "doctor" whenever she talks about having it prescribed. She also says it was prescribed for drug withdrawal. I've never heard of klonipin being prescribed for that reason. When she starts getting real about that subject, like she has about Betty Ford where she used to say she went for alcohol not drugs, then we'll know the real story. I'm sure her klonipin was prescribed by a "doctor" probably an MD of a certain specialty which she doesn't like to talk about. Drug withdrawal is not the standard use for that drug. People familiar with it's use know what klonipin is prescribed for.

She should have left the band as soon as she started her solo career.

[chiliD]

I was watching a TOSOTM-era Stevie interview the other day, another where she was welling up with tears about all she had given up for her career and the Mac, and how Mick expected her to be back in the studio the following week despite the fact she had just been on tour in Europe, and it occured to me, why didn't she just give up the Mac when Lindsey did?

I realise it was loyalty on her part but after Tango the stuff she was doing with the Mac wasn't her best (although I know some of it have become fan favourites) and she would have benefited at that point just concentrating on her solo career.

If you think about it, if she had rested after making Tango and the RAL tour, rather than gone back out on the road, she probably wouldn't have caved in and taken klonopin and would have been much healthier in mind, body and spirit. Plus I think her songwriting would have benefited from not having the pressures of her Mac workload and probably her romantic life too.

The Mac on the other hand would probably got on fine without her, those were Christine's years really. I guess some people may disagree on this point - Stevie is a big draw in the States but I think they could have survived.

The more I think about it, I think Stevie should have left the band when Lindsey did. Those huge Mac world tours, the klonopin and all that rushing back and forward between her two careers stifled her creativity IMO. She should have just left it all behind like Lindsey did, and got on with her own life and her solo career.

What do you all think?

I think she (AND Lindsey) should've taken off after the end of the Tusk tour. All they did was keep Fleetwood Mac from putting out probably TWICE as much material in the 80's as they did (collectively). Fleetwood Mac would've gotten new people (or gotten an ex-member to rejoin at that point...namely Bob Welch, who was still having a fairly decent solo career) to ignite new life into the band. Lindsey's solo career probably would've taken off rather than just been red-headed step-child to the band, Stevie's solo career would've reached even HIGHER heights (no pun intended). It would've been better for all around.

She should have left the band as soon as she started her solo career.

Exactly my point. :nod:

[glitter_fades]

I think she (AND Lindsey) should've taken off after the end of the Tusk tour. All they did was keep Fleetwood Mac from putting out probably TWICE as much material in the 80's as they did (collectively). Fleetwood Mac would've gotten new people (or gotten an ex-member to rejoin at that point...namely Bob Welch, who was still having a fairly decent solo career) to ignite new life into the band. Lindsey's solo career probably would've taken off rather than just been red-headed step-child to the band, Stevie's solo career would've reached even HIGHER heights (no pun intended). It would've been better for all around.

I vote for this one. :thumbsup:

:wavey:

[KateTheCursed]

I don't know that Lindsey's solo career ever really would have taken off. Not for lack of talent or vision but rather for lack of business savvy and what ever compulsion it is that keeps him from capitalizing on opportunities as they present themselves and ever finishing anything.

[Serrart]

Well, typically when somebody quits a band, the band is forced to continue without said person. :rolleyes:

I suppose they could have broken up, but with all the free publicity they enjoyed in 1993, how could Mick and John NOT have gone out with Fleetwood Mac? They would have been more crazy to not doing anything than putting together a new version of Fleetwood Mac. Anyway, breaking up Fleetwood Mac is just not Mick's style. Sure, he said he did it in 1996, but come on, he was already working with Lindsey again at that point. So, he wasn't REALLY breaking the band up, he was getting the band back together.

So she didn't force them to go on without her, they decided to do so, no ? ;)

Romy

[SteveMacD]

Fleetwood Mac would've gotten new people (or gotten an ex-member to rejoin at that point...namely Bob Welch, who was still having a fairly decent solo career) to ignite new life into the band.
I seriously doubt Bob would have been asked, and I doubt that he would have agreed if asked. Just by watching the "Roxy" video, it seems clear that Bob got on Christine's nerves a bit, and that maybe she was a bit too subdued for him. One of the reasons why the "Rumours" band was able to sustain their success is that they were able to develop a chemistry that was lacking in earlier versions. I doubt bringing Bob back would have changed that.

Now, had Stevie and Lindsey left the band in 1981, I could see them adding some combination of the likes of Eric Clapton, Dave Mason, Robbie Patton, Todd Sharp, and maybe even George Hawkins (rhythm guitar) to the fold. I really couldn't see them adding another female vocalist in 1981. Christine was still touring then, and really, they could axe most of Stevie's songs in the set. Maybe Chris would sing "Dreams," but that's about it. In fact, I actually wonder if Bekka would have been asked to join if Christine were still touring in 1994.

[Johnny Stew]

Ahh ya. That's what she says. She uses the word "doctor" whenever she talks about having it prescribed. She also says it was prescribed for drug withdrawal.I don't recall her having ever said it was prescribed for "drug withdrawal."
What she has said on many occasions was that her friends (and, most likely, managers) were all afraid she'd relapse because of her "nervous personality," so the doctor prescribed Klonopin to calm her nerves.

[SteveMacD]

So she didn't force them to go on without her, they decided to do so, no ? ;)
Whatever. I'm not interested in have a BS discussion over symantics. Mick, John, and Christine decided that, because of renewed interest in Fleetwood Mac, they were going to do another project as Fleetwood Mac. Given the choice, Stevie would have been involved in the project. Stevie decided not to do that, thus the band was forced to do that project without her. It's pretty simple. If you want to debate something relevant, please do. But if you're going to have an argument over symantics, please count me out.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Whatever. I'm not interested in have a BS discussion over symantics. Mick, John, and Christine decided that, because of renewed interest in Fleetwood Mac, they were going to do another project as Fleetwood Mac. Given the choice, Stevie would have been involved in the project. Stevie decided not to do that, thus the band was forced to do that project without her. It's pretty simple. If you want to debate something relevant, please do. But if you're going to have an argument over symantics, please count me out.


As I recall, both Chris and Stevie "retired" from the band during the BTM era. Chris didn't want any involvement but got suckered into it and layed down tracks at the last minute for Time.

[dudden22]

I've never heard of klonipin being prescribed for that reason.

I used to work in a treatment center, klonipin is a benzodiazapine that can be used to help detox people from alcohol... However; I have a hard time believing she took them like "vitamin c" for eight years and did not know they were addictive. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

[SteveMacD]

As I recall, both Chris and Stevie "retired" from the band during the BTM era. Chris didn't want any involvement but got suckered into it and layed down tracks at the last minute for Time.
Actually, Christine only retired from the road. As of the last show on the BTM tour, both Chris and Stevie intended to continue recording with Fleetwood Mac, but only "the boys" would tour. Then Rick quit in 1991, followed by Stevie later that same year, followed (briefly) by Billy in early 1993. There was an interview from 1993 recently posted in the Christine forum where she said that she was planning on doing another album with Fleetwood Mac, but that she didn't know her plans beyond that point.

[Serrart]

Whatever. I'm not interested in have a BS discussion over symantics. Mick, John, and Christine decided that, because of renewed interest in Fleetwood Mac, they were going to do another project as Fleetwood Mac. Given the choice, Stevie would have been involved in the project. Stevie decided not to do that, thus the band was forced to do that project without her. It's pretty simple. If you want to debate something relevant, please do. But if you're going to have an argument over symantics, please count me out.

Well, as one of our most brilliant directors says 'words are important' so sometimes comes out from me this quixotic attitude about the way things are said. In any case, short, more likeable version: I don't agree. Nobody forced them to go on with the project, and they knew how Stevie was at the time so I doubt it was a huge surprise for them to see her go. :wavey:.

Romy

[SteveMacD]

I don't agree. Nobody forced them to go on with the project,
Are you positive? Were you involved directly in any of the discussions? Could it not be possible that Warners was putting a lot of pressure on the band, especially after a year of free publicity, to do another project? Could somebody from the label not have said "listen, we need another album and/or tour soon, or Fleetwood Mac is history on this label?" I certainly don't know if these types of discussions did or did not happen, but I do know enough about the industry to know that these discussions can't be ruled out. Anyway, it's not like dumber things haven't happened to Fleetwood Mac.

In any event, whether "Stevie forced them" or whether they "decided to," is irrelevant. It was Stevie's decision that created the situation, not the band's. Fleetwood Mac had a history of changing personnel, and Stevie knew this. She knew, but didn't necessarily like, that the band wasn't going to split just because she left.

[Johnny Stew]

It was Stevie's decision that created the situation, not the band's. Fleetwood Mac had a history of changing personnel, and Stevie knew this. She knew, but didn't necessarily like, that the band wasn't going to split just because she left.That woman is EVIL, I tells ya! EEEVIL!!!!

[dudden22]

That woman is EVIL, I tells ya! EEEVIL!!!!

:laugh: :xoxo:

[amber]

Whatever. I'm not interested in have a BS discussion over symantics. Mick, John, and Christine decided that, because of renewed interest in Fleetwood Mac, they were going to do another project as Fleetwood Mac. Given the choice, Stevie would have been involved in the project. Stevie decided not to do that, thus the band was forced to do that project without her. It's pretty simple. If you want to debate something relevant, please do. But if you're going to have an argument over symantics, please count me out.
How bout one over semantics? :laugh:
That woman is EVIL, I tells ya! EEEVIL!!!!
:laugh: :xoxo: Lo, gaze unto the dark heart of Stevie Nicks!!!

[SteveMacD]

That woman is EVIL, I tells ya! EEEVIL!!!!
Well, I didn't say that :rolleyes: I understand why she left the band. I'm not even saying I disagree with her decision. And, I loved the "Time" band. So, for me, it wasn't all bad. However, can anybody honestly say it was a decision that benefitted her career or the band's? If anything, she came off as washed-up, and Fleetwood Mac came off as a souped up cover band. I don't know how well they would have come off live as the BTM band without Christine, but I'm positive that the the tours would have gotten more attention and that the album (assuming there would have been one) would have sold more than SA or "Time" combined. That's not to say they would have been a hit, just that they would have been better off together.

[SteveMacD]

How bout one over semantics? :laugh:
:laugh: Hey, I've never claimed to be a goood spelllerrr.

[amber]

:laugh: Hey, I've never claimed to be a goood spelllerrr.
:laugh: Just teasing yer. In a prissy speller sort of way. I can't help it, it's a disease. I better get some Klonopin. :wavey:

[KateTheCursed]

Are you positive? Were you involved directly in any of the discussions? Could it not be possible that Warners was putting a lot of pressure on the band, especially after a year of free publicity, to do another project? Could somebody from the label not have said "listen, we need another album and/or tour soon, or Fleetwood Mac is history on this label?" I certainly don't know if these types of discussions did or did not happen, but I do know enough about the industry to know that these discussions can't be ruled out. Anyway, it's not like dumber things haven't happened to Fleetwood Mac.

In any event, whether "Stevie forced them" or whether they "decided to," is irrelevant. It was Stevie's decision that created the situation, not the band's. Fleetwood Mac had a history of changing personnel, and Stevie knew this. She knew, but didn't necessarily like, that the band wasn't going to split just because she left.


It seems to me what you just argued was not a case of "Stevie forced them," but rather Warner Brothers. And yes, this is a case of semantics...but one that by your own contradictions you invite.

[glitter_fades]

I don't recall her having ever said it was prescribed for "drug withdrawal."
What she has said on many occasions was that her friends (and, most likely, managers) were all afraid she'd relapse because of her "nervous personality," so the doctor prescribed Klonopin to calm her nerves.

Amber and I must recall something you don't. I was replying to her post:


Erm, from what I've read, her doctor just automatically prescribed it for her right away to help with the drug withdrawal, not because she said she was depressed, or overworked, or anything.

Maybe she said she took it for "nerves" or whatever euphemism she wants to label her mental health issues. Most of the time she talks about using klonipin she words it in a way that gives the impression she took it for drug addiction. I'm not the only one who got that impression. She downplays the real reason, but recently I think she actually said the word psychiatrist when talking about being put on klonipin. It was within the past few months I heard or read her say a psychiatrist gave it to her. It's refreshing to see her being more candid about this subject. There's nothing for her to be ashamed of if people know she had mental health treatment. It's always been obvious to me she has issues that required medication. It's not a crime. Cocaine was not the right drug and klonipin wasn't either, but it's not hard to see Stevie needed some help in the 80's and 90's that was too long in coming. Seems she's got a handle on it now. :nod: It's great to see her doing so well. :)

:angel:

[Johnny Stew]

Well, I didn't say that :rolleyes: I know. I was just having a little fun riffing on the "Stevie's a fame-hungry, man-leaving, band-ruining, lying, conniving, calculating bitch" silliness that goes around sometimes. She's EEEVIL, I tells ya! :laugh:

[trackaghost]

Amber and I must recall something you don't. I was replying to her post:


You and Amber must recall something I don't as well, because Johnny Stew's impression of the situation is the same as mine.
I'm pretty sure, it wasn't "automatically" prescribed, as Amber said, and that Stevie talked about how the pressure from her friends and family, concerned that she would go back on drugs, was the deciding factor for her taking klonopin.

Anyway, my point was, if she wasn't on tour her friends and family may not have been as concerned, because the road has so many temptations for a rock band.

[KateTheCursed]

Maybe she said she took it for "nerves" or whatever euphemism she wants to label her mental health issues. Most of the time she talks about using klonipin she words it in a way that gives the impression she took it for drug addiction. I'm not the only one who got that impression. She downplays the real reason, but recently I think she actually said the word psychiatrist when talking about being put on klonipin. It was within the past few months I heard or read her say a psychiatrist gave it to her. It's refreshing to see her being more candid about this subject. There's nothing for her to be ashamed of if people know she had mental health treatment. It's always been obvious to me she has issues that required medication. It's not a crime. Cocaine was not the right drug and klonipin wasn't either, but it's not hard to see Stevie needed some help in the 80's and 90's that was too long in coming. Seems she's got a handle on it now. It's great to see her doing so well.

From what I can recall she mentioned a psychiatrist at the very least during the TISL press. That being said my impression was that the "revelation" was very much downplayed in that she was there because people were worried about her and how she would deal with the stress of her lifestyle sans cocaine. She did always seem to discuss it in terms of other people's needs rather than in response to any of her own issues she may have been dealing with.

I don't think mental issues, what ever they may be, are anything to be ashamed of exactly or to be stigmatized. That being I'm sure like anyone else Stevie's not particularly proud either of the downward spiral that is marked by her Klonopin years. And I'm sure sharing something so personal is probably very difficult. I don't fault her for a lack of total honesty maybe because I don't feel entitled to that honesty simply because I'm a fan of her music and her writing. I do, however, applaud her for seeing her way through to the other side, and I am grateful that she seems to be opening up about this time.

[trackaghost]

From what I can recall she mentioned a psychiatrist at the very least during the TISL press. That being said my impression was that the "revelation" was very much downplayed in that she was there because people were worried about her and how she would deal with the stress of her lifestyle sans cocaine. She did always seem to discuss it in terms of other people's needs rather than in response to any of her own issues she may have been dealing with.


Well this has always been the impression I got too, that it was down to other people's concerns rather than any troubles she was having herself. I never heard before that it was automatically prescribed but a decision she made based on pressure from other people. Whether Stevie doesn't want to admit the real truth is another thing, however I do admire that she came through the whole affair so well.

[KateTheCursed]

Whether Stevie doesn't want to admit the real truth is another thing, however I do admire that she came through the whole affair so well.

Well I would contend that there is a difference between her admitting the truth to all of humanity and what she holds to be true in her own mind and in the company of close friends. I do not know, there may not be any discrepency between those two realities. But it is also very possible that there is. And to me it is reality that she holds to be true to herself and her loved ones that is really important. I guess some people would say that's advocating a form of phoniness, but I tend to look at it as a very human response to the need for self-preservation. I know I don't think of myself as being phoney, but quite often the me that I present to strangers is not the me I present to friends because the comfort level and the sense of security just isn't the same. And I'm certainly not going to share an unvarnished version of my deepest, darkest moments and the greatest trials of my life to every person I encounter. I don't know many people who would...and by many what I really mean is I don't know of any one.

[dudden22]

Whether Stevie doesn't want to admit the real truth is another thing, however I do admire that she came through the whole affair so well.


I admire her for that too. The only thing that bothers me is that she plays the innocent victim when she discusses her addictions. I didn't know that shoveling masses amount of coke up my nose for ten years was harmful, everybody did it. I just took klonopin every day like it was vitimin c, although I became a zombie and gained massive amounts of weight, I did not realize it was addictive. I just wish she would be more honest and real about it. I love her though and admire her for overcoming it whether she is honest about it or not.

[trackaghost]

Well I would contend that there is a difference between her admitting the truth to all of humanity and what she holds to be true in her own mind and in the company of close friends. I do not know, there may not be any discrepency between those two realities.

I agree. The fact that she talks about any of this at all is pretty amazing. It can't be easy at all.
When you think about it, she says she spent two weeks in Betty Ford, which is nothing especially if you consider she was probably taking drugs since the mid 70s. No wonder everyone was worried and really it can't have been easy for Stevie to just stop like that.

[amber]

I admire her for that too. The only thing that bothers me is that she plays the innocent victim when she discusses her addictions. I didn't know that shoveling masses amount of coke up my nose for ten years was harmful, everybody did it. I just took klonopin every day like it was vitimin c, although I became a zombie and gained massive amounts of weight, I did not realize it was addictive. I just wish she would be more honest and real about it. I love her though and admire her for overcoming it whether she is honest about it or not.
Really? That's interesting. I tend to believe what she says, in a way. But more like, I believe that stuff about why she started the drugs, but to have the addictions go on for that long, then that's just an addiction, which I'm sure she realized the ramifications of. But, of course, once you are addicted, it is hard to get off. Still, I believe she started them somewhat innocently. :)

[trackaghost]

I admire her for that too. The only thing that bothers me is that she plays the innocent victim when she discusses her addictions. I didn't know that shoveling masses amount of coke up my nose for ten years was harmful, everybody did it. I just took klonopin every day like it was vitimin c, although I became a zombie and gained massive amounts of weight, I did not realize it was addictive. I just wish she would be more honest and real about it. I love her though and admire her for overcoming it whether she is honest about it or not.

I can kinda understand the prescription drug thing, even if she was just fooling herself, you know, because a doctor has given it to me, it must be alright.
But her pleas that no one told her cocaine was dangerous :rolleyes: Honestly she can be ditzy but no one's that naive!

[Johnny Stew]

Well I would contend that there is a difference between her admitting the truth to all of humanity and what she holds to be true in her own mind and in the company of close friends.

And I certainly not going to share an unvarnished version of my deepest, darkest moments and the greatest trials of my life to every person I encounter. I don't know many people who would...and by many what I really mean is I don't know of any one.Like you, I don't see how Stevie deciding what she wants the public to know and what she doesn't want us to know, equates a form of dishonesty (or denial, or mental illness, or whatever else).

If you don't reveal your life story down to the minutiae, are you therefore being dishonest? If you gloss over or romanticize something difficult or painful for you, does that make you a liar?

Stevie has come off as being far more forthright than many celebrities (though, of course, not all), and I think she deserves the right to keep something to herself when she wants to. It's not a glaring sign of some form of mental illness... it's being human.

I have to add that I'm curious as to how Stevie saying the Klonopin was prescribed by a "doctor," is somehow a sign that she is/was in some sort of denial about her treatment.
A psychiatrist is a doctor, no?

If Stevie said she went to "a doctor" and he prescribed special inserts for her shoes to help alleviate pain, would we say that she's in denial about her problem because she failed to refer to him as a "podiatrist" when relating the story?

[SteveMacD]

It seems to me what you just argued was not a case of "Stevie forced them," but rather Warner Brothers. And yes, this is a case of semantics...but one that by your own contradictions you invite.
Umm, I only said that the band MIGHT NOT have decided to do a project. However, by Stevie quitting, whatever they had to do, they were forced to do without her. In any event, this isn't even the big point I was making.

My big point is that Stevie's leaving the band hurt her career and Fleetwood Mac's career for a few years, and all you want to do is talk about "forced" vs. "decided," which is a miniscule part of my discussion. But then, with some Stevie fans (not all), I should by now not expect any less. Instead of focusing on the big picture, you like to take an almost irrelevant point and expand on it.

[Johnny Stew]

I can kinda understand the prescription drug thing, even if she was just fooling herself, you know, because a doctor has given it to me, it must be alright.
But her pleas that no one told her cocaine was dangerous :rolleyes: Honestly she can be ditzy but no one's that naive!I think the whole "no one told us cocaine was dangerous" thing is definitely denial, too. Although Lindsey and John have pretty much said the same things... "everyone did it," "that was the 70s," "we didn't know it was bad for you," etc., etc.

But, truly, it's pretty much the same thing as the millions of people who smoke. Come on, we ALL know it's detrimental to one's health, yet how many people continue to light up?
Everyone thinks that they'll be the one lucky person who can get away with it, with no adverse effects. And when they're diagnosed with lung cancer or emphysema or heart disease, they're still shocked -- like they had NO idea that could ever happen to them.

[amber]

I can kinda understand the prescription drug thing, even if she was just fooling herself, you know, because a doctor has given it to me, it must be alright.
But her pleas that no one told her cocaine was dangerous :rolleyes: Honestly she can be ditzy but no one's that naive!
In the mid/late seventies, when she started, it was not yet known to be super dangerous. I mean, logic should tell you that, but every person on earth was doing it then, and no one more than rock stars.

[dissention]

I think the whole "no one told us cocaine was dangerous" thing is definitely denial, too. Although Lindsey and John have pretty much said the same things... "everyone did it," "that was the 70s," "we didn't know it was bad for you," etc., etc.

But, truly, it's pretty much the same thing as the millions of people who smoke. Come on, we ALL know it's detrimental to one's health, yet how many people continue to light up?
Everyone thinks that they'll be the one lucky person who can get away with it, with no adverse effects. And when they're diagnosed with lung cancer or emphysema or heart disease, they're still shocked -- like they had NO idea that could ever happen to them.

And then they sue the tobacco companies as if they were the ones who forced them to light up in the first place. :laugh: Personal responsibility has gone the way of the dinosaurs, Le Stew.

[SteveMacD]

I think the whole "no one told us cocaine was dangerous" thing is definitely denial, too.
Exactly. I mean, common sense should tell you that a substance that makes you fidgety and keeps you up for three days straight isn't good for you. Duh! Then again, they're rock stars, not rocket scientists.

[Johnny Stew]

My big point is that Stevie's leaving the band hurt her career and Fleetwood Mac's career for a few years, and all you want to do is talk about "forced" vs. "decided," which is a miniscule part of my discussion. But then, with some Stevie fans (not all), I should by now not expect any less. Instead of focusing on the big picture, you like to take an almost irrelevant point and expand on it.Yeah, that's because we're evil, too. :laugh:

I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with your point that Fleetwood Mac was "forced" to go on without her. She didn't hold a gun to their heads.
Lindsey had already left, Rick quit, Billy quit (though he eventually came back), Christine didn't want to tour anymore.... to pin any damage to Fleetwood Mac's career on Stevie and her decision to leave, seems a bit near-sighted.

By the way, if you go back a few more years to Lindsey's departure, it would seem that his defection set in motion the chain of events that lead to Fleetwood Mac eventually being regarded as, in your words, "a souped-up covers band."
Put that kind of blame on him in the company of LB fans, and, trust me, you won't get any better of a reaction than you get from Stevie's fans. ;)

[KateTheCursed]

My big point is that Stevie's leaving the band hurt her career and Fleetwood Mac's career for a few years, and all you want to do is talk about "forced" vs. "decided," which is a miniscule part of my discussion.

Perhaps you meant "you" as in "you all" and were making sweeping generalization. Or perhaps you did not notice that you were responding to someone who was replying to you for the first time and as such had made no mention of whether FM really had anything to "decided." In fact I will gladly admit that if Warners' asserted pressure that FM (in what ever incarnation Mick could piece together) had very few options at their disposal. So please don't attribute my very small statement into this elaborate idea that you have about certain Stevie fans wanting to divert your discussion because it I'm playing that game.

[Johnny Stew]

And then they sue the tobacco companies as if they were the ones who forced them to light up in the first place. :laugh: Personal responsibility has gone the way of the dinosaurs, Le Stew.You said it, brother! My favorite is the folks who sue fast food establishments for causing their obesity.
Stuff your face full of double-decker burgers every day, then wash them down with milkshakes, and guess what's going to happen, Einstein. :rolleyes:

I gained weight because my fat ass didn't know when to say "when" -- not because Mayor McCheese force fed me.

[dissention]

You said it, brother! My favorite is the folks who sue fast food establishments for causing their obesity.
Stuff your face full of double-decker burgers every day, then wash them down with milkshakes, and guess what's going to happen, Einstein. :rolleyes:

I gained weight because my fat ass didn't know when to say "when" -- not because Mayor McCheese force fed me.

:nod: You are what you eat, so if people eat all that fat, that's what they'll be.

Those lawsuits are utter jokes. Someone even tried to sue Nabisco over their Oreo cookies. :rolleyes:

[amber]

You said it, brother! My favorite is the folks who sue fast food establishments for causing their obesity.
Stuff your face full of double-decker burgers every day, then wash them down with milkshakes, and guess what's going to happen, Einstein. :rolleyes:

I gained weight because my fat ass didn't know when to say "when" -- not because Mayor McCheese force fed me.
Nevertheless, I challenge you to be a rock star, or even a person, in the late seventies and not do coke. Go on, use your wayback machine...just try, bet you can't!!!

[dissention]

Nevertheless, I challenge you to be a rock star, or even a person, in the late seventies and not do coke. Go on, use your wayback machine...just try, bet you can't!!!

Tina Turner is a good example, but you probably weren't being literal. :laugh: It still doesn't absolve anyone of personal responsibility, nor does it make the "no one ever told they were bad" excuse any less laughable. Common sense tells you that if you snort an illegal substance up your nose that has weird effects on you, it probably isn't healthy. :laugh:

[amber]

Tina Turner is a good example, but you probably weren't being literal. :laugh: It still doesn't absolve anyone of personal responsibility, nor does it make the "no one ever told they were bad" excuse any less laughable. Common sense tells you that if you snort an illegal substance up your nose that has weird effects on you, it probably isn't healthy. :laugh:
So, you are trying to tell me Tina didn't ever do coke? Okay, rock stars with kids are discounted from the challenge.... :cool:
what are you talking about? Obviously, the nose was put there by god, to ingest healthful substances.... :laugh:

[dissention]

what are you talking about? Obviously, the nose was put there by god, to ingest healthful substances.... :laugh:

My nose just loves to ingest spinach and vitamin c tablets. Shame on Stevie for putting that nasty cocaine up there. :p

[Johnny Stew]

Those lawsuits are utter jokes. Someone even tried to sue Nabisco over their Oreo cookies. :rolleyes:Or the guy who sued because he held his Pop-Tart down in the toaster and it caught his kitchen on fire.
Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

[amber]

Or the guy who sued because he held his Pop-Tart down in the toaster and it caught his kitchen on fire.
Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
Um, great. Did you use your wayback machine yet, set it to "rock star in the mid/late seventies/early eighties" and not do coke? :wavey: or, wait, better set it to "biggest rock act of the late seventies" to really get the full impact. ;)

[SteveMacD]

I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with your point that Fleetwood Mac was "forced" to go on without her. She didn't hold a gun to their heads.
Nobody said she did ;) However, Stevie's decision forced Mick, John, and Christine to do one of two things: break up or go on without her. If they were going to continue to be a band, which made complete sense after what happened in 1992/1993, it was going to have to be without Stevie, by Stevie's own choice. Just as they were forced to be Fleetwood Mac without Peter, Bob, and Lindsey.
Lindsey had already left, Rick quit, Billy quit (though he eventually came back), Christine didn't want to tour anymore.... to pin any damage to Fleetwood Mac's career on Stevie and her decision to leave, seems a bit near-sighted.
This is where I disagree. We can't really bring Lindsey into the discussion, as he had been out of Fleetwood Mac for five or six years at that point. Rick would probably have come back into the fold if Stevie were there, and Billy would have likely stayed knowing that there was going to be some stability within the group. Sure, Christine wouldn't have been on the road, but she would have been there in the studio. So, I think a lot of the damage can be attributed to Stevie's departure.
By the way, if you go back a few more years to Lindsey's departure, it would seem that his defection set in motion the chain of events that lead to Fleetwood Mac eventually being regarded as, in your words, "a souped-up covers band."

Put that kind of blame on him in the company of LB fans, and, trust me, you won't get any better of a reaction than you get from Stevie's fans. ;)
Big difference, though. When Lindsey left, the band was still a hit machine with a hit album and even a hit single. Christine and Stevie were still in the band, and they're the two who had all but three of the big hits. With the "Time" band, NONE of the folks fronting the Big Mac were in the band in the shows. Plus, it's not like Billy and Rick were doing a ton of Lindsey's material. I think they did all of two songs from Lindsey and four from Peter. By their second tour, they were only doing ONE Lindsey tune and three Peter tunes. Hell, Bob Welch did like four Peter Green tunes on his last tour with Fleetwood Mac.

Some could even blame Christine. The reason I don't is that, save for a short tour for "The Dance," Christine has stayed off the road. It wasn't Fleetwood Mac she was leaving, it was the road. Christine said that she wouldn't tour anymore, but would continue recording with Fleetwood Mac, which is exactly what she did. Now, if Stevie had stayed off the road, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'd totally understand her decision. But, let's face it, Stevie very well couldn't tour as a solo artist if she was still a part of the band, but not touring with the band.

When "As Long As You Followed" and OSOTM weren't hits, it should have been obvious that the big hit days were over for Stevie and the Mac and that they'd do better as a band than as solo artists. Let's face it, BTM was the most successful album any of them, including Lindsey, were involved with between 1987 and 1997. And, their tours were very successful. Fleetwood Mac may not have been a huge hit, but it was viable, which is more than can be said about Fleetwood Mac or Stevie Nicks after she quit the band.

[SteveMacD]

Perhaps you meant "you" as in "you all" and were making sweeping generalization. Or perhaps you did not notice that you were responding to someone who was replying to you for the first time and as such had made no mention of whether FM really had anything to "decided."
"You" as in "you all." When you've been a part of the Fleetwood Mac on-line community as long as a lot of us have been (nearly ten years here), you tend to notice certain patterns amongst certain fans.

[Johnny Stew]

Um, great. Did you use your wayback machine yet, set it to "rock star in the mid/late seventies/early eighties" and not do coke? :wavey: or, wait, better set it to "biggest rock act of the late seventies" to really get the full impact. ;)I'm really not a good guy to put to that challenge. I've been around people who smoke, have done drugs, drink excessively, and so on.... but I've never even been so much as tempted. I'm always the sober guy annoyed with everyone else for making idiots of themselves. :shrug:

[dissention]

I'm really not a good guy to put to that challenge. I've been around people who smoke, have done drugs, drink excessively, and so on.... but I've never even been so much as tempted. I'm always the sober guy annoyed with everyone else for making idiots of themselves. :shrug:

Ooh, we're agreeing a lot tonight. :laugh:

My father was a heroin junkie and living with that, I've grown to not have a very compassionate view towards drug users. Personal responsibility is not something that magically disappears.

[CreepingDeath]

My father was a heroin junkie and living with that, I've grown to not have a very compassionate view towards drug users. Personal responsibility is not something that magically disappears.

Mine was too. Except I didn't live with it for very long because he died in a car accident when I was six. That messed with my head for quite awhile, and I actually turned to drugs briefly in high school. :distress:

I'm so glad that ****'s over.

[dissention]

Mine was too. Except I didn't live with it for very long because he died in a car accident when I was six. That messed with my head for quite awhile, and I actually turned to drugs briefly in high school. :distress:

I'm so glad that ****'s over.

Aww, I'm sorry. :o

My father was a lucky bugger. He was a heavy heroin user from the time he was in his early-twenties and the bastard never bit the dust. In 2000, he robbed almost ten convenience stores to support his habit and got sent up the river. And can you believe he got out in four years? It's insane. I want nothing to do with him and haven't even spoken to him in five years.

[glitter_fades]

Nevertheless, I challenge you to be a rock star, or even a person, in the late seventies and not do coke. Go on, use your wayback machine...just try, bet you can't!!!

Ted Nugent :nod:

[trackaghost]

In the mid/late seventies, when she started, it was not yet known to be super dangerous. I mean, logic should tell you that, but every person on earth was doing it then, and no one more than rock stars.

Just because everyone was doing it doesn't mean they were unaware they could be dangerous! It's not like drugs were invented in the 70s and no one knew you could overdose. Hell, drugs killed Janis, Jim Morrison, Gram Parsons and Jimi Hendrix and a whole host of rock stars before Stevie ever sniffed a line of coke! How could she not know that rock stars could die from taking drugs?

The only thing I would say is that when you're young you think nothing will kill you, so I guess Stevie was like that.

[trackaghost]

Ted Nugent :nod:

Good one :nod:
Problem is you're more likely to hear tales of excess and debauchery than someone declining to take part in all that. I'm sure I've read about some rock stars that weren't into that whole scene though.

[trackaghost]

I think the whole "no one told us cocaine was dangerous" thing is definitely denial, too. Although Lindsey and John have pretty much said the same things... "everyone did it," "that was the 70s," "we didn't know it was bad for you," etc., etc.

But, truly, it's pretty much the same thing as the millions of people who smoke. Come on, we ALL know it's detrimental to one's health, yet how many people continue to light up?
Everyone thinks that they'll be the one lucky person who can get away with it, with no adverse effects. And when they're diagnosed with lung cancer or emphysema or heart disease, they're still shocked -- like they had NO idea that could ever happen to them.

Sorry Johnny I hadn't read your post but yeah, I agree, although I do think it was a case of denial rather than not knowing, as I said in my earlier post.

[strandinthewind]

Tina Turner is a good example, but you probably weren't being literal. :laugh: It still doesn't absolve anyone of personal responsibility, nor does it make the "no one ever told they were bad" excuse any less laughable. Common sense tells you that if you snort an illegal substance up your nose that has weird effects on you, it probably isn't healthy. :laugh:

Are you kidding? I had friends in the business who said Tina was no stranger to coke in the 70's. They claim to have done it with her.

[Lee]

I believe she stayed with the Mac b/c she is loyal to them. She always puts them first before her solo stuff, JMO.

Lee :)

[HomerMcvie]

I believe she stayed with the Mac b/c she is loyal to them. She always puts them first before her solo stuff, JMO.

Lee :)
Yeah, especially once her solo career was in the ****ter. :shrug:

[chiliD]

I seriously doubt Bob would have been asked, and I doubt that he would have agreed if asked. Just by watching the "Roxy" video, it seems clear that Bob got on Christine's nerves a bit, and that maybe she was a bit too subdued for him. One of the reasons why the "Rumours" band was able to sustain their success is that they were able to develop a chemistry that was lacking in earlier versions. I doubt bringing Bob back would have changed that.

Now, had Stevie and Lindsey left the band in 1981, I could see them adding some combination of the likes of Eric Clapton, Dave Mason, Robbie Patton, Todd Sharp, and maybe even George Hawkins (rhythm guitar) to the fold. I really couldn't see them adding another female vocalist in 1981. Christine was still touring then, and really, they could axe most of Stevie's songs in the set. Maybe Chris would sing "Dreams," but that's about it. In fact, I actually wonder if Bekka would have been asked to join if Christine were still touring in 1994.

Clapton? Pipe dream. If he said "no" to the Rolling Stones, what's gonna make him say "yes" to Fleetwood Mac? Todd Sharp, definitely (and why he never WAS asked, is amazing. In my scenario above, Todd would join WITH Bob Welch. After dealing with Stevie's "hippie/witch" persona, I think that Bob Welch's stage persona wouldn't have been as annoying as prior to his leaving. The Roxy show isn't a good gauge since it was a one-off thing, so Chris might've just had a bad day or a bad bottle of wine.

The chain of events that led to Mick forming the Zoo wouldn't have happened, so Bekka probably wouldn't have been in the picture in 1994. I could picture Martha Davis ditching the Motels for Fleetwood Mac in 1981 (the connection there being the Motels' Marty Jourard's work with Bob Welch on Man Overboard)...the Motels were about at the spot where Fleetwood Mac was during Heroes Are Hard To Find in their popularity by then...and Martha would've probably jumped at the chance to get her music the mass audience of Fleetwood Mac. Imagine Fleetwood Mac having "Only The Lonely", "Envy", "Take The L" and "Mission Of Mercy" as THEIR songs in 1982...I surely can.

[gldstwmn]

I used to work in a treatment center, klonipin is a benzodiazapine that can be used to help detox people from alcohol... However; I have a hard time believing she took them like "vitamin c" for eight years and did not know they were addictive. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Not to mention, any credible doc would not prescribe Klonopin to someone for eight years straight.

[gldstwmn]

Good one :nod:
Problem is you're more likely to hear tales of excess and debauchery than someone declining to take part in all that. I'm sure I've read about some rock stars that weren't into that whole scene though.

No, Ted was into underage girls instead.

[dudden22]

No, Ted was into underage girls instead.


And loading up on arsenals

[SteveMacD]

Clapton? Pipe dream. If he said "no" to the Rolling Stones, what's gonna make him say "yes" to Fleetwood Mac?
The fact that he would still be a singer and songwriter. Basically, he'd only have been a side man with the Rolling Stones. There really wouldn't be any creative outlet for him with them. And, let's be honest, the Stones aren't exactly the most diverse band, musically speaking. They're brilliant at being the Stones. Eric Clapton, like Fleetwood Mac, was all over the map, musically speaking. Mick, John, and Chris would not only have welcomed his input, but would require it. It would be a win-win. Plus, I think part of Eric Clapton envied what Fleetwood Mac had in terms of a working relationship.
The chain of events that led to Mick forming the Zoo wouldn't have happened, so Bekka probably wouldn't have been in the picture in 1994. I could picture Martha Davis ditching the Motels for Fleetwood Mac in 1981 (the connection there being the Motels' Marty Jourard's work with Bob Welch on Man Overboard)...the Motels were about at the spot where Fleetwood Mac was during Heroes Are Hard To Find in their popularity by then...and Martha would've probably jumped at the chance to get her music the mass audience of Fleetwood Mac. Imagine Fleetwood Mac having "Only The Lonely", "Envy", "Take The L" and "Mission Of Mercy" as THEIR songs in 1982...I surely can.
The only reason I brought Bekka into the discussion is that I'm not convinced that they would have asked her to join the band if Christine hadn't retired from the road. Because, I don't believe that they would have hired another female in 1981. I think Mick, John, and Chris wouldn't have been interested in recreating the illusion of the "Rumours" band with new people in 1981. Of course, there wouldn't have been a Zoo, as you mentioned. Still, who's to say that Mick wouldn't have met Billy in 1983? So, there's a good chance that he would have eventually ended up in the fold. My hunch is that Fleetwood Mac would have continued as a quartet for a few years (sorry, I just don't see Bob ever agreeing to rejoin Fleetwood Mac). Then, Mick would have met Billy, introduced him to the rest of the band, and invited him to join.

[Ghosty]

I dunno, I think there would have been less reason for her to take the klonopin if she hadn't been on the road or about to go on tour (I don't know when exactly it started). I'm sure the pressure of that, certainly helped her make her decision. She probably thought, I don't want to let the band down.

I think she trusted a doctor who told her - take these pills, they'll help you feel better. I trusted a doctor once too, even though my gut told me not to take the prescription. And the prescription made me much worse. Always, always, always listen to your gut. I've finally learned to.


I think FWM would have been fine without her. Christine is an awesome writer and singer. But it must be destiny..... ;)

[trackaghost]

No, Ted was into underage girls instead.

And shooting defenseless animals.

He's not a nice man (plus I hate his music) but he's still example of someone who didn't take drugs.

What was your point?

[amber]

And shooting defendless animals.

Your point?
Seriously? :D

[trackaghost]

Seriously? :D

Ted should shoot me for spelling defenseless wrong. Me bad.

He loves to hunt old Ted. He's a nasty bit of stuff.

[amber]

Ted should shoot me for spelling defenceless wrong. Me bad.

He loves to hunt old Ted. He's a nasty bit of stuff.
:laugh: :laugh:
you did it again! defenseless! But I wasn't talking about that. I've trained myself to become somewhat immune to spelling errors. 'Course the Klonopin helps.....







:lol:
some people, probably, know their waaaay to crazy already, without adding coke.

[trackaghost]

****, what's wrong with me tonight?
I need to be whacked over the head with a dictionary obviously!
:laugh:

[amber]

****, what's wrong with me tonight?
I need to be whacked over the head with a dictionary obviously!
:laugh:
meh, no big. I have words like that, too. BTW, if you really want to be whacked with the dic, I'm sure Ted Nugent is the man for the job!
And, in other pointless news, it's so weird you say "tonight" when I just got up. It's also weird that my friend brought a tequila shot over when I first woke up, but hey, it was 11:30, and she'd been up for hours.... :eek:

[trackaghost]

meh, no big. I have words like that, too. BTW, if you really want to be whacked with the dic, I'm sure Ted Nugent is the man for the job!
And, in other pointless news, it's so weird you say "tonight" when I just got up. It's also weird that my friend brought a tequila shot over when I first woke up, but hey, it was 11:30, and she'd been up for hours.... :eek:


It's 9.30pm here in the UK and I wouldn't mind having a tequila shot right now!

[amber]

It's 9.30pm here in the UK and I wouldn't mind having a tequila shot right now!
:laugh:
kay, I'll send my friend over. you two can scorp out with your tequila... :wavey: Ted will be over to slap you with dictionaries, shortly.

[cliffdweller]

I have a hard time believing she took them like "vitamin c" for eight years and did not know they were addictive. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Well, Stevie is known to feign ignorance about her drug use, "I swear, we didn't know that cocaine was bad for you"...yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh really? But wasn't GDW written about someone Stevie met who "looked like she did too much cocaine" and also what a detrimental effect this drug can have on a person? I love Stevie like there's no tomorrow but some of her excuses about drugs are so ridiculous! She couldn't have been that naive.

[dissention]

Well, Stevie is known to feign ignorance about her drug use, "I swear, we didn't know that cocaine was bad for you"...yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh really? But wasn't GDW written about someone Stevie met who "looked like she did too much cocaine" and also what a detrimental effect this drug can have on a person? I love Stevie like there's no tomorrow but some of her excuses about drugs are so ridiculous! She couldn't have been that naive.

Whoa, like, common sense. Very refreshing. :D

I agree with everything and I think Stevie's stories of drug use and addiction give more weight to the belief that she does live in a fairy world, far removed from most of reality.

[cliffdweller]

It's always been obvious to me she has issues that required medication.

I don't get it. You mean as a result of drug dependency or just in general?

[cliffdweller]

I think Stevie's stories of drug use and addiction give more weight to the belief that she does live in a fairy world, far removed from most of reality.

I guess so because when it comes to her excuses about her drug addiction, there's no way I'm buyin' what she's sellin' --no pun intended of course :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Although Lindsey and John have pretty much said the same things... "everyone did it," "that was the 70s," "we didn't know it was bad for you," etc., etc.

Not quite. Lindsey did say that drugs were part of the rock and roll climate and that everyone was doing them, but he never said anything about how he didn't think they were bad for you--at least not to my knowledge. I've never heard John discuss anything about drugs, just his alcoholism.

Sorry to nitpick but this kind of represents Lindsey unfairly. I can't believe I just made that comment! :laugh:

[Rumour0323]

But her pleas that no one told her cocaine was dangerous :rolleyes: Honestly she can be ditzy but no one's that naive!


Well I could argue this point. I am not sure how old you are, but I am a child of the 70's. Cocaine first popped up in my circle when I was around the age of 18, in 1975. I had no use for the stuff simply because there was no way, that stuff was going up my nose. Nasty...plus I was a goody goody and scared of everything that was .....gasp....illegal...oh yeah and I was dating a cop. BUT....my mother who was born in 1917 and started smoking at the age of 16, started me smoking when I was 18 to stem off the weight gain she thought she saw coming. My mother was a very intelligent woman, we did not have the information about cigarettes then that we do today. The thought of me doing the same thing to my children is unthinkable to me and due to the massive amount of education they have all received on the perils of smoking I am happy to report that so far none of them do and I hope it stays that way. I myself quit 5 years ago....10 years AFTER my mother died of emphysema.

I believe Stevie and go along with her naivete (sorry if that is spelled wrong) to some extent. In the beginning she says that being in FM was like being in the army...it had to have been unbelievably stressfull and tiring and I can see how they would have reached out for anything that would have gotten them thru that from one show to the next, one fitting to the next, one rehearsal to the next. The show must go on and all of that....Now at some point about 3, 4, 5 years into it, when their friends are dropping dead and things are spinning out of control, should they/she not have gone...hmmmm...maybe this stuff isn't so good for me? Well yes. But I really admire Stevie that when she did finally decide to do something about it she did.

The klonopin....yikes.... all I can say it watch the Tango in the Night concert DVD and tell me what you see. The woman in the Seven Wonders video and the woman in that thing are two entirely different women. I think when Lindsey left the band Stevie had a nervous breakdown. She has mentioned in the past that she considers *this* to be the time that they really broke up. I also thought that I had read that the progression was not simply ....put her on klonopin ....bam! I thought she went from Xanax to Prozac to Klonopin. Don't know where I read that so don't flame me, I just thought that's what I remember reading. Piecing together some articles from that time, I can see some conversations that went back and forth between the two of them after he left. I recall him saying one time that she called him soon after he left the band and asked him if he wanted her to leave too. Did he want to do another BN, what did he want? I don't think she got the answer she was looking for and I personally feel that she just took a nosedive. She hadn't been prepared for him to leave the band and when he not only left the band... but walked out of her life altogether.....I think it devastated her. Have you ever noticed how often Stevie looks to her left on stage? It is painful to watch her do it on the Tango video she looks almost afraid....because she knows he is not there. And I love Rick and Billy to this day, because you can tell....they know....when she looks at them.....she's not seeing them but tracking some ghost...through the fog.

Now once she herself got away from that....I agree....8 years of klonopin? Sometimes I think being surrounded by a bunch of yes people can hurt you but then from what I've heard during that time if you tried to tell her differently you were fired, so.......... who knows really. I just agree with the sentiment, of good for her. Whatever her reasons may have been, she came thru it and survived.....and I am very thankful for that. One of my very favorite lines of her's is from BOTD....."I got the message.....stay among the living." :thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

I can see some conversations that went back and forth between the two of them after he left. I recall him saying one time that she called him soon after he left the band and asked him if he wanted her to leave too. Did he want to do another BN, what did he want? I don't think she got the answer she was looking for and I personally feel that she just took a nosedive. She hadn't been prepared for him to leave the band and when he not only left the band... but walked out of her life altogether.....I think it devastated her.
I've never heard about her calling him after he quit to suggest that she quit and maybe they'd do another BN album. It would be interesting in light of the awful confrontation between the two of them the night he actually left the band. Whether or not you believe what Mick wrote, I've heard Stevie say that during the incident she thought that Lindsey was going to kill her, and that Lindsey probably thought he was going to kill her, and she told him that if he did, if the band didn't kill him first, her family would. So it wasn't pretty, slap or no slap. In any event, I think it was a day or so later that Mick and Stevie went to dinner with Billy and Rick to make an offer, and the big announcement was made shortly thereafter, and it was Stevie who said that the band was an entity that was bigger than either she or Lindsey or anyone else. I'm not saying the above mentioned conversation never happened, I just don't see when it would have, or how it could have, happened. Still, in a boot that I have from one of the last shows from the "Mask" tour, when Lindsey appeared with the band on a few songs, including "Landslide," Stevie said that she hopes that one day Lindsey can find it in his heart to someday work with her again, so it very well could have happened.
Have you ever noticed how often Stevie looks to her left on stage? It is painful to watch her do it on the Tango video she looks almost afraid....because she knows he is not there. And I love Rick and Billy to this day, because you can tell....they know....when she looks at them.....she's not seeing them but tracking some ghost...through the fog.
LOL. Billy said that during their first show, Stevie gave him an almost evil look on "Go Your Own Way," which freaked him out a little. Stevie apologized after the gig, saying it was an old habbit. I think they all had a good laugh over it.

[chiliD]

Still, in a boot that I have from one of the last shows from the "Mask" tour, when Lindsey appeared with the band on a few songs, including "Landslide," Stevie said that she hopes that one day Lindsey can find it in his heart to someday work with her again, so it very well could have happened.

Yep, I was sitting directly in front of the soundboard at the GW Forum when the dramatically tearful Stevie said that after "Landslide". Lindsey just shrugged it off. But, still he came back for the last song of the set ("GYOW") and the encore ("Tear It Up")

It was a BIG shocker that he was there. (since word hadn't travelled down from SF about his appearing with them there the night before)

[KarmaContestant]

Whether or not you believe what Mick wrote, I've heard Stevie say that during the incident she thought that Lindsey was going to kill her, and that Lindsey probably thought he was going to kill her, and she told him that if he did, if the band didn't kill him first, her family would. So it wasn't pretty, slap or no slap.

I too have heard her say this. In fact I have the audio clips on my PC. I don't understand why so many people think Mick made this story up? He may get his dates and stories a little mixed up now and then, but he did put something like 8 million worth of cocaine up his nose so I can forgive him for a few inaccuracies. I just don't believe Mick would make up something that dramatic, and then Stevie in turn say it herself.

[strandinthewind]

I too have heard her say this. In fact I have the audio clips on my PC. I don't understand why so many people think Mick made this story up? He may get his dates and stories a little mixed up now and then, but he did put something like 8 million worth of cocaine up his nose so I can forgive him for a few inaccuracies. I just don't believe Mick would make up something that dramatic, and then Stevie in turn say it herself.

In my esp. around here, people just refuse to believe either LB or SN can ever do anything wrong. They sort of get into camps and never budge :laugh: So be it :laugh:

[Kelly]

I totally think that ugly incident happened. I just don't happen to believe that LB was entirely to blame. I think Miss Stevie is quite capable of pushing buttons when she wants to and who knows how that whole incident played out leading up to the physical confrontation. Stevie also has said she ran and attacked him first. So...it is upsetting when people who were not there try to say exactly what happened and who is to blame. My own opinion is they probably are both to blame...they both contributed and it got ugly. Stevie went an apologized to LB for what Mick wrote in his book too. Obviously if she is telling him "god I am sorry he wrote that" she really feels bad that the incident was put out there like that. Maybe because he is the only one painted as the bad guy in the book? :shrug:

The klonopin thing is a sad situation and I am just thankful she got off it. I do think she perhaps feels uncomfortable talking about exactly how and why she was prescribed the drug. It is her business. Maybe her family really was worried and that is the ONLY reason why. I tend to think with her nervous problems etc..there might have been more to it but that is just my opinion.

[catinthedark]

I've just finally read this whole thread - interesting points and discussion.

I do believe Stevie was naive about coke when she started taking it. She was young, and she probably had people all around her telling her it would help her get through the day, that it was just a little boost, that using just this much wasn't dangerous - it's not like you're Janis or something - and she trusted them and she did it. And, by God, it did help her get through the day. The trouble is, once you're in an addiction, you don't have the presence of mind to say, "I am addicted, I need help." You are just concentrating on your next hit.

As to the klonipin, I agree with this:


I think when Lindsey left the band Stevie had a nervous breakdown. She has mentioned in the past that she considers *this* to be the time that they really broke up... and I personally feel that she just took a nosedive. She hadn't been prepared for him to leave the band and when he not only left the band... but walked out of her life altogether.....I think it devastated her.

It may well be that at this point, the people around her had to really work to convince her to go to a psychiatrist, and the way they convinced her may have been by using the "we are worried you're going to go back on coke" ruse. I can tell you, when you see a friend or family member in desperate need of help, sometimes you will say anything to get them to accept the help. So that's what they told Stevie, and while I don't purport to know much about psychiatry, it does certainly sound, from Stevie's own descriptions, that she was in a deep depression for many years. Not going out, weight gain, loss of interest (loss of enchantment), loss of creativity, etc. all symptoms of depression. I think she was put on the klonipin, and very likely, she had people around her who just brought her the drug - she may not have been going to see her psychiatrist every week. She was a "star" afterall - I'm not saying that is right, but it could well have been the situation. I find it absolutely infuriating that some doctor did keep her on klonipin for 8 years. I hope that doctor has been sued for malpractice.

I applaud and admire her for getting through that time and coming out so brilliantly on the other side. And I don't think she should say anymore about that time than she feels comfortable saying. Recovery is a long process - part of that recovery often includes talking about the experience. She has, over the years, revealed a little bit more, and a little bit more. There may well be gaps she doesn't remember much about - or there may just be times or experiences she doesn't care to share with her fans. And that's fine by me. I don't think she's being dishonest; I think she's protecting her own soul.

[dissention]

I too have heard her say this. In fact I have the audio clips on my PC. I don't understand why so many people think Mick made this story up? He may get his dates and stories a little mixed up now and then, but he did put something like 8 million worth of cocaine up his nose so I can forgive him for a few inaccuracies. I just don't believe Mick would make up something that dramatic, and then Stevie in turn say it herself.

Stevie also said that she attacked him first physically, so who knows what really happened.

[dissention]

I totally think that ugly incident happened. I just don't happen to believe that LB was entirely to blame. I think Miss Stevie is quite capable of pushing buttons when she wants to and who knows how that whole incident played out leading up to the physical confrontation. Stevie also has said she ran and attacked him first. So...it is upsetting when people who were not there try to say exactly what happened and who is to blame. My own opinion is they probably are both to blame...they both contributed and it got ugly. Stevie went an apologized to LB for what Mick wrote in his book too. Obviously if she is telling him "god I am sorry he wrote that" she really feels bad that the incident was put out there like that. Maybe because he is the only one painted as the bad guy in the book? :shrug:

I don't excuse Lindsey's behavior if he did hit her because no man should ever lay their hand on a woman, but I do think that whole book was simply vicious towards him. If she apologized for anything, I'm sure she apologized for the way he was portrayed throughout it. Fleetwood trashed him from here to there, donwplaying his contributions to the band, making him sound like an incessantly petulant brat, etc, while kissing the collective asses of everyone else. I don't doubt that Lindsey was a petulant little brat, but you'd think that he would be a little more kind (or at least say some kind things with the bad) about the guy that essentially formed the sound of the band. Instead, we got Fleetwood's sour grapes put down on paper. And who really knows what to believe in that ****ty book, he's even admitted to putting information about his own father in there that wasn't even true; not to mention the fact that he had been living in a drug-induced stupor for nearly fifteen years.

[trackaghost]

I don't excuse Lindsey's behavior if he did hit her because no man should ever lay their hand on a woman, but I do think that whole book was simply vicious towards him. If she apologized for anything, I'm sure she apologized for the way he was portrayed throughout it. Fleetwood trashed him from here to there, donwplaying his contributions to the band, making him sound like an incessantly petulant brat, etc, while kissing the collective asses of everyone else. I don't doubt that Lindsey was a petulant little brat, but you'd think that he would be a little more kind (or at least say some kind things with the bad) about the guy that essentially formed the sound of the band. Instead, we got Fleetwood's sour grapes put down on paper. And who really knows what to believe in that ****ty book, he's even admitted to putting information about his own father in there that wasn't even true; not to mention the fact that he had been living in a drug-induced stupor for nearly fifteen years.

I totally agree, If you knew nothing about Lindsey you'd come away after reading that book hating him IMO and none the wiser to his genius or huge contribution to the band. Sure he was a brat but they worked with him for 12 years, he couldn't have been that bad.
Mick's book is an enjoyable read but I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

[dissention]

I totally agree, If you knew nothing about Lindsey you'd come away after reading that book hating him IMO and none the wiser to his genius or huge contribution to the band. Sure he was a brat but they worked with him for 12 years, he couldn't have been that bad.

And he turned a solo album into a Mac project. He surely couldn't have been as bad as Mick made him out to be.

Mick's book is an enjoyable read but I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

I went through a few salt shakers, myself. :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

I totally think that ugly incident happened. I just don't happen to believe that LB was entirely to blame. I think Miss Stevie is quite capable of pushing buttons when she wants to and who knows how that whole incident played out leading up to the physical confrontation. Stevie also has said she ran and attacked him first. So...it is upsetting when people who were not there try to say exactly what happened and who is to blame. My own opinion is they probably are both to blame...they both contributed and it got ugly. Stevie went an apologized to LB for what Mick wrote in his book too. Obviously if she is telling him "god I am sorry he wrote that" she really feels bad that the incident was put out there like that. Maybe because he is the only one painted as the bad guy in the book? :shrug:

The klonopin thing is a sad situation and I am just thankful she got off it. I do think she perhaps feels uncomfortable talking about exactly how and why she was prescribed the drug. It is her business. Maybe her family really was worried and that is the ONLY reason why. I tend to think with her nervous problems etc..there might have been more to it but that is just my opinion.

While I don't doubt some altercation happened, I think Mick's account is embellished, and as you point out, places the blame on Lindsey. I think Mick knew whoever bought his book would flip right to the back pages to find out why Lindsey left the band. His description is comical. When I read it, I pictured Stevie chasing Lindsey around Christine's yard. Thank God they didn't turn Mick's book into a movie.

[David]

And he turned a solo album into a Mac project.I don't know whether Stevie should have left the group in 1981, but I do know she should have released a live album in 1983. She really blew it big time.

[chiliD]

And he turned a solo album into a Mac project.

Actually, THREE TIMES now.

1) He was pondering leaving the band before the Tusk sessions; and, according to some interviews, pretty much considers his portions of the album as "my first solo album"
2) Gave up work on his 3rd solo album for Tango In The Night
3) Melded Gift Of Screws into Say You Will

[chiliD]

I don't know whether Stevie should have left the group in 1981, but I do know she should have released a live album in 1983. She really blew it big time.

If they'd really mixed up their set lists (both solo AND as a group) from tour to tour, I'd say they should release a live album after EVERY tour. But, in retrospect, that would be really redundant (except the tours when they had new personnel). Just look at the duplication between Live (1980) and The Dance and they were 17 years apart!!

But, yeah, 1983 would've been a great time for Stevie to release a solo live album...a DOUBLE live album.

[dissention]

I don't know whether Stevie should have left the group in 1981, but I do know she should have released a live album in 1983. She really blew it big time.

She just would have gone into the studio to redub vocals, anyway, so I'm glad we didn't get one. It would have been a pale imitation of a real live album, much like The Dance.

[trackaghost]

But, yeah, 1983 would've been a great time for Stevie to release a solo live album...a DOUBLE live album.

God I wish she had too. What a wasted opportunity.

[Rumour0323]

This isn't the entire quote I was thinking of but at least this will redeem me to some extent. I knew that I had read somewhere that Stevie did in fact call Lindsey after "that day" and asked him, what he wanted her to do. Did he want her to leave too? Did he want to do another BN? I will keep looking for this one, but here is a small quote from another site that a friend of mine found for me....(Thanks Ang :wavey: )

Creem 9/87
(Stevie was recently asking him on the phone if he’d like to do another Buckingham/Nicks album)"You just don’t usually have to do that sort of thing-to break up with someone and then see them for the next 12 years. That’s just not normal…it’s not even very well. It’s sort of an ill thing to have to do, but what the hell. I’ve gotta tell you, the last 12 years, I think I’ve probably blocked out some of the more painful aspects. It seems like a big, long dream from which I’m just now awakening. I feel younger now that I have in years. I feel more new than I have in years. It’s a surreal thing, on that mega level. It’s gonna be a good year."

[sodascouts]

Actually, THREE TIMES now.

1) He was pondering leaving the band before the Tusk sessions; and, according to some interviews, pretty much considers his portions of the album as "my first solo album"
2) Gave up work on his 3rd solo album for Tango In The Night
3) Melded Gift Of Screws into Say You Will

I understand it for Tusk and TITN, but when he used it for SYW I had to roll my eyes. He had 6 years in between 1997 and 2003 to release the songs he had created c. 1995, yet he didn't do so. Then, he starts griping about having to give them up for FM. Come on. Lindsey tries my patience sometimes.

[SteveMacD]

I understand it for Tusk and TITN, but when he used it for SYW I had to roll my eyes. He had 6 years in between 1997 and 2003 to release the songs he had created c. 1995, yet he didn't do so. Then, he starts griping about having to give them up for FM. Come on. Lindsey tries my patience sometimes.
And, it's not like Mick, John, and Christine weren't already on the album anyway. Sure, it might not have been released as Fleetwood Mac, but the implication shure as hell was there.