What If..

[lagringader&r]

I discussed this a little with my aunt and decided to post about what we talked about or rather, debated.

I'm sure everyone probably saw the VH1 special about the making of SYW. Do you remember the part where Lindsey is alone and singing/recording in a studio? I forget what song it was, but I do remember his voice is pretty bad. I think it was Destiny Rules. Did his voice decline over the years or was it just so retouched with recording equipment before, that it just sounded better then? I know that Stevie's voice has deepened, but at least she can stay on key.

So, my question is: If Stevie or Lindsey were trying to get into the music business today and age wasn't an issue , would they get a record deal? If they tried out for a show like American Idol, would they make it to Hollywood at all or be laughed off like the bad singers? :laugh:

Second question is: If Rumours had never existed and any of the songs on it, would FM have been inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame? That's where our biggest debate came in. My aunt pointed out that Huey Lewis had lots of hits from his album "Sports" but there is no way he'll ever be inducted into the HOF. I pointed out that FM had hits from their first album, but she said that wouldn't have been enough to get them inducted. Tusk, Mirage and Tango wouldn't have even been considered. If Rumours had never been born, everything would have been very different. I'm curious how everyone feels about that?

[dudden22]

I think Simon would eat them for Breakfast and then Paula would cry. I don't think the HOF would have happened without rumours either.

[Livia]

When the Dance came out, a local music critic here said that LB's voice sounded like he'd gargled with Clorox. For all the flack people give Stevie for her voice declining over the years, personally, I think LB's has gotten MUCH worse!

[diamondsnake]

This is why I can't stand American Idol. They don't care how much passion is in your voice or how much you rock, if you can't hit the high notes or have a text book perfect Celine Dion esque voice then you are out of there! I think Stevie's current voice would garner some nasty comments from Simon. It is unfortunate because the real stars are the ones with personality and something special about them (Stevie, Janis, Elvis, Bob Dylan, etc.). None of them have the most perfect voice. But they have so much passion in their vocals and they have interesting quirks which American Idol weeds out. Anyone that is different or has any "spice" is thrown out of the competition because having a raspy voice must mean a bad voice!

[strandinthewind]

When the Dance came out, a local music critic here said that LB's voice sounded like he'd gargled with Clorox. For all the flack people give Stevie for her voice declining over the years, personally, I think LB's has gotten MUCH worse!


I sometimes cannot take it when he sings - Peacekeeper is a good example of that. And - lest I be flamed - he is a huge musical genius period. His voice is just shot. I must say though on songs like SG, he was good.

[diamondsnake]

When the Dance came out, a local music critic here said that LB's voice sounded like he'd gargled with Clorox. For all the flack people give Stevie for her voice declining over the years, personally, I think LB's has gotten MUCH worse!
Lindsey's voice was horrible on the SYW tour. He just screamed his vocals instead of singing (sans Say Goodbye).

[diamondsnake]

Stevie's voice is amazing to my ears, but an aquired taste. It is far from text book perfect but no other artist can bring tears to my eyes on songs like Beauty and the Beast, Beautiful Child, etc. Even if you can hit every high note in town, who cares? Stevie is the kind of artist who adds feeling behind every lyric she sings.

[dissention]

Neither one of them can really sing for beans nowadays, but neither of them were ever remarkable singers to begin with. He's pitchy and she drones, they're a perfect match. :woohoo:

[strandinthewind]

On the subject of LB's voice, I think he could do with a lesson or two. I think he still has the pipes, but uses them incorrectly. Again, I think he is agreat artist. I just want him to sing better.

[strandinthewind]

Neither one of them can really sing for beans nowadays, but neither of them were ever remarkable singers to begin with. He's pitchy and she drones, they're a perfect match. :woohoo:


Well, she was and she wasn't. I would put the "Whenever I Call You Friend" vocal up against just about anything out there. But, IMO she was always really a harmony singer, which is much harder than lead vocal. I think these days she is afraid to soar, though she did a little in Vegas and it was sublime.

[SapphireSister]

I heard Stevie say in an interview that if American Idol had been around when she was starting out she definitely would have gone on. Man, would I love to see that!

[dissention]

Well, she was and she wasn't. I would put the "Whenever I Call You Friend" vocal up against just about anything out there. But, IMO she was always really a harmony singer, which is much harder than lead vocal. I think these days she is afraid to soar, though she did a little in Vegas and it was sublime.

She could always use her voice very well to suit her songs, but a good singer she never was, imo. He has a tendency to whine a lot with his singing voice but, like Stevie, was usually pretty good with the ways in which he used it (Tango In the Night, Say Goodbye, etc.). I still prefer their voices to 99% of the other ones out there, though, because even with their limited vocal skills, they could sell a song by fusing as much emotion into them as they did.

[seeker007nmss]

I heard Stevie say in an interview that if American Idol had been around when she was starting out she definitely would have gone on. Man, would I love to see that!

I can see her giving the judges that "STEVIE STARE" if they criticized her too much. "Grrrrrrrrr"

[ELIUD]

Lindsey, Stevie, Christine whoever. None of the talented people that are currently in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would stand a chance on a show like American Idol. That show's only agenda is to produce more of the same homogeneous pop stars that appeal to the masses. Aside from Fantasia whats-her-name, American Idol has added NOBODY IMPORTANT OR ORIGINAL to the current talent pool of young recording artists.

[MacMan]

In the early days.... they both had exceptional voices live I think, and they sounded even better when they put the two voices together.... Today... Lindsey doesn't have such a good voice live it's very limited. On record it sounds fine, but that's been fine tuned or tweaked... Stevie's too, but she at least has that powerful voice live, and it's even more powerful now then it was in the late 90's.... Her's has changed and it's not as versitile - same with his, but both of them frankly sound a lot better when they aren't singing something where they need to be screaming it like some of the mor popular tunes... And still to this day... live and on record, they still sound amazing together.

[TheMacAttack]

He's pitchy :woohoo:

...and sometimes he is downright just bitchy :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

Lindsey, Stevie, Christine whoever. None of the talented people that are currently in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would stand a chance on a show like American Idol. That show's only agenda is to produce more of the same homogeneous pop stars that appeal to the masses. Aside from Fantasia whats-her-name, American Idol has added NOBODY IMPORTANT OR ORIGINAL to the current talent pool of young recording artists.I don't know how you can say that Fantasia is more original than Nadia. :shrug:

And I'm not a big Idol fan at all, but despite the fact that they make the contestants fit into these cookie cutter molds, they always seem to favor people who do have vocal talent. I can give them that, especially since that's absent from popular music a lot these days. (Ashlee Simpson?)

[ontheEdgeof17]

Lindsey doesn't have such a good voice live it's very limited. On record it sounds fine, but that's been fine tuned or tweaked... Stevie's too, but she at least has that powerful voice live, and it's even more powerful now then it was in the late 90's....


It's funny you say this. I was just thinking the other day on how Lindsey's vocals on SYW were more tweaked and fine tuned and Stevie's were left more raw and "unfinished-like"(RTTG, DR).

[gldstwmn]

When the Dance came out, a local music critic here said that LB's voice sounded like he'd gargled with Clorox. For all the flack people give Stevie for her voice declining over the years, personally, I think LB's has gotten MUCH worse!

He doesn't practice. :shrug: Also, even though I kind of admire him for it, he doesn't wear an ear monitor.

[gldstwmn]

It is unfortunate because the real stars are the ones with personality and something special about them (Stevie, Janis, Elvis, Bob Dylan, etc.).

Elvis had a gorgeous voice right up until the very end.

[gldstwmn]

Lindsey, Stevie, Christine whoever. None of the talented people that are currently in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would stand a chance on a show like American Idol. That show's only agenda is to produce more of the same homogeneous pop stars that appeal to the masses.

Bingo. :nod:

[markolas]

I was listening to an interview with Joni Mitchell recently, and she mentioned that she'd heard some music industry bigwig say that "we're not looking for talent...we want a "look" and a willingness to cooperate." And that's what the American Idol judges seem to be looking for. Joni also said that the technically great singers today have no passion in their voices. So, no, I don't think Lindsey & Steve would be able to make it if they were trying to break into music today...but that's not because they're no good, it's because the music industry is looking for people who fit a certain image, and who'll do exactly as they're told. It has nothing to do with creativity or art.

Yes, Lindsey's voice has deteriorated, and so has Stevie's, but there's more to their music than their voices.

[lagringader&r]

I was listening to an interview with Joni Mitchell recently, and she mentioned that she'd heard some music industry bigwig say that "we're not looking for talent...we want a "look" and a willingness to cooperate." And that's what the American Idol judges seem to be looking for. Joni also said that the technically great singers today have no passion in their voices. So, no, I don't think Lindsey & Steve would be able to make it if they were trying to break into music today...but that's not because they're no good, it's because the music industry is looking for people who fit a certain image, and who'll do exactly as they're told. It has nothing to do with creativity or art.

Yes, Lindsey's voice has deteriorated, and so has Stevie's, but there's more to their music than their voices.

I agree with all of this. Tusk is my favorite FM cd and I don't understand why it wasn't more popular. I think their voices are good on it and the music is so diverse. Rumours bores me a little, frankly :sorry: I guess it's kind of a fun one to listen to, but it's so pop. No doubt that's why it sold so well, even if their voices aren't the best. These days, I think Stevie still stays on key and while she can't hit a lot of high notes, the lower end of her register is still really strong. Lindsey can't sing at all and I wondered if he ever could? I never really heard him hold a note for a long period of time or blow me away with his vocals. Did he ever have a good voice? I can't imagine him taking voice lessons at his age. At least they still put a lot of passion into their music. You're right in there being more to music than voices.

[glitter_fades]

Lindsey can't sing at all and I wondered if he ever could? I never really heard him hold a note for a long period of time or blow me away with his vocals. Did he ever have a good voice?

He had a better voice than Stevie when they started out. Pavarotti didn't need to worry about competition but sheesh we're talking about Rock n Roll here. Stevie can't really sing either, but she does more with the voice she has. Her unusual voice gives her an edge in the rock arena. They both suck now. I'd say he sucks worse from not practicing and not wearing an ear piece during live shows to stay on pitch. I can live with that as long as he keeps playing guitar well enough not to embarass himself.

I can't imagine him taking voice lessons at his age.

Hardly.

[lagringader&r]

He had a better voice than Stevie when they started out. Pavarotti didn't need to worry about competition but sheesh we're talking about Rock n Roll here. Stevie can't really sing either, but she does more with the voice she has. Her unusual voice gives her an edge in the rock arena. They both suck now. I'd say he sucks worse from not practicing and not wearing an ear piece during live shows to stay on pitch. I can live with that as long as he keeps playing guitar well enough not to embarass himself.

I know this is *in-studio* but when I found out that Stevie did all the harmony and backup vocals on Dreams, I was shocked. She basically carried that whole song on her own. So, I'd say she could definitely sing back then. They aren't opera singers, you're right, but I think she really could hold those higher notes. Her voice is unusual, though, and her songs are weird. :laugh: That's what attracts me the most.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Pavarotti didn't need to worry about competition . . . .

Two Words:

Jose Carreras - it was better before the illness, but even after it was fab. and in many ways better than LP, who, make no mistake, ws very very good and often flawless.

http://www.jcarreras.com/dhtml.htm

[amber]

I know this is *in-studio* but when I found out that Stevie did all the harmony and backup vocals on Dreams, I was shocked. She basically carried that whole song on her own. So, I'd say she could definitely sing back then. They aren't opera singers, you're right, but I think she really could hold those higher notes. Her voice is unusual, though, and her songs are weird. :laugh: That's what attracts me the most.
Me, too. But I think they have really good voices, both of their senses of harmony is outstanding, IMO. Right, yes, they're not opera singers. For rock, though, they are great.

[glitter_fades]

Two Words:

Jose Carreras - it was better before the illness, but even after it was fab. and in many ways better than LP, who, make no mistake, ws very very good and often flawless.

http://www.jcarreras.com/dhtml.htm

Love the little brother, :xoxo: but I'm a Placido Domingo groupie all the way.

:wavey:

[SapphireSister]

They both suck now.

Ouch!That's harsh (although it did make me laugh, so thanks ;))

[Serrart]

Love the little brother, :xoxo: but I'm a Placido Domingo groupie all the way.

:wavey:

I agree, and he's a great person too, IMO.

Romy

[krrrby]

In the early days.... they both had exceptional voices live I think, and they sounded even better when they put the two voices together.... Today... Lindsey doesn't have such a good voice live it's very limited. On record it sounds fine, but that's been fine tuned or tweaked... Stevie's too, but she at least has that powerful voice live, and it's even more powerful now then it was in the late 90's.... Her's has changed and it's not as versitile - same with his, but both of them frankly sound a lot better when they aren't singing something where they need to be screaming it like some of the mor popular tunes... And still to this day... live and on record, they still sound amazing together.

Well said...ditto to that :nod:

[wondergirl9847]

Lindsey can't sing at all and I wondered if he ever could? I never really heard him hold a note for a long period of time or blow me away with his vocals. Did he ever have a good voice?

Have you not seen his Center Stage video? Boyfriend can hold onto a note for an eternity. You need to listen to him sing You Do or You Don't....and hold that note at the very end of the song. Also, if you've heard Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind....his voice is amazing. He blew my mind when he sang Say Goodbye in London....I plugged up my ears so I could tune all the screaming and crap out and listened to just his voice....it was flawless.

If he took singing lessons today...he would sound like sh*t...all his soul would be ripped out of his voice. No way.

[lagringader&r]

Have you not seen his Center Stage video? Boyfriend can hold onto a note for an eternity. You need to listen to him sing You Do or You Don't....and hold that note at the very end of the song. Also, if you've heard Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind....his voice is amazing. He blew my mind when he sang Say Goodbye in London....I plugged up my ears so I could tune all the screaming and crap out and listened to just his voice....it was flawless.

If he took singing lessons today...he would sound like sh*t...all his soul would be ripped out of his voice. No way.

I didn't know he could sing like that. I agree that he does put a lot of soul into his performances, though.

[Ghosty]

So, my question is: If Stevie or Lindsey were trying to get into the music business today and age wasn't an issue , would they get a record deal? If they tried out for a show like American Idol, would they make it to Hollywood at all or be laughed off like the bad singers? :laugh:

Second question is: If Rumours had never existed and any of the songs on it, would FM have been inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame? I'm curious how everyone feels about that?

It doesn't seem like many stars make it big in their 50's if they were never heard of before, so that's too hard to think about. But if they were in their 20's now and trying to make it in today's music world, I think it could happen. People love Stevie. She has an energy that when people love her, they *love*her. NOt everyone does, but those that do, they'd still make her a star (put together with all the people that like her and love all her hits, but aren't crazed fans like we are - hee!). I don't think they'd be laughed out of business if they were in their 20's right now. But if any 50-something year old is out there trying to get into the showbiz light, I don't think they'd have much luck, sad to say, no matter how good they are.

And I think Stevie's big thing is her as a songwriter and performer more than a singer (although I love her voice andshe stays on key great and also does great harmonies). And for Lindsey it's his guitary playing and songwriting too, and great harmonies. So it's not always about having a perfect voice. I'd rather hear Stevie and FWM songs sung by like, a not so good voice like Willie Nelson or Janis Joplin rathe than hear songs from like the Backstreet Boys and Michael Jackson by someone with a so-called perfect voice, like Whitney Houston or Celine Dion. KNow what I mean? For me it's the song more than the singer's voice. And the performance.

As for the Hall Of Fame, I think it's on a band's entire career, not just one hit album. One hit album does not get you into the Hall of Fame. It's who they have been over all these years, and the number of hit singles, the number of hit albums, and the strength they still hold in this industry after all these years and are still going and still have a huge following, and there are very few people out there who will change the station when an a Fleetwood Mac song comes on. And everyone knows who they are, even the younger generation right now. And they *did* make Rumours, so how can we try and think what would have happened if they didn't? We might as well wonder what if Lindsey and Stevie didn't join Fleetwood Mac, would they have still made it big? Would they have stayed together and made it big, or split up and then made it big? Etc. It's too hard to try and think about.

Here's another "what if". What is Stevie never went solo? Now that would be weird! Would Fleetwood Mac have made more albums since they didn't have to do them in between Stevie albums and tours? Would they have made another one as huge as Rumours, in that same way, with them all hanging out in the studio and working on songs and writing new ones right then and there, and Stevie being more involved in each song, etc.? Or what if Stevie left for solo before Tusk? Or what if she left after Tusk, but left for good, never to do another album with them again. Oy! It all boggles the mind! ;)

[wondergirl9847]

I didn't know he could sing like that. I agree that he does put a lot of soul into his performances, though.

Check out the Fritz song, Louisa Joy. It's available for download here (http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=86) Amazing voice. :nod:

[lagringader&r]

Check out the Fritz song, Louisa Joy. It's available for download here (http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=86) Amazing voice. :nod:

Wow! He sounds great! Fritz was their old band? Hearing them way back in the 60s is very cool. :thumbsup: Thanks for posting the link.

[HejiraNYC]

This is why I can't stand American Idol. They don't care how much passion is in your voice or how much you rock, if you can't hit the high notes or have a text book perfect Celine Dion esque voice then you are out of there! I think Stevie's current voice would garner some nasty comments from Simon. It is unfortunate because the real stars are the ones with personality and something special about them (Stevie, Janis, Elvis, Bob Dylan, etc.). None of them have the most perfect voice. But they have so much passion in their vocals and they have interesting quirks which American Idol weeds out. Anyone that is different or has any "spice" is thrown out of the competition because having a raspy voice must mean a bad voice!


I was just thinking about this this morning while reading the Village Voice. I saw an ad for the BB King Bar and Grill on 42nd St. and the list of upcoming performers. Just then my iPod randomly shuffled to Pat Benatar's "Fire and Ice," and I remembered that Pat Benatar had played at BB King Bar and Grill not too long ago. And as I was listening to "Fire and Ice," I was thinking about the friendly rivalry back in the early 80's about the queen of rock n roll- some said it was Pat, some said it was Stevie. And Pat clearly had the superior voice in terms of technical ability, range and power. She was a classically trained singer, after all. Soo... all these years later, Stevie just packed a 15,000 seat arena in Philadelphia with her more technically limited voice, and Pat Benatar can't pack a bar in Manhattan these days. The take home message is that there is definitely more to being a good singer than just having a technically perfect voice. There has to be a certain "X" factor that Stevie has in spades that nobody else can touch.

[strandinthewind]

Love the little brother, :xoxo: but I'm a Placido Domingo groupie all the way.

:wavey:


I really like PD as well. All three are exceptional though. I mean picking between the best :laugh: