Senators compromise on filibusters

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/23/filibuster.fight/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A bipartisan group of senators reached an agreement after days of talks to avert a showdown Tuesday over President Bush's judicial nominees, Sen. John McCain announced Monday evening.

Standing with a group of 14 senators, the Arizona Republican said the seven Republicans and seven Democrats had brokered a deal to "avert a crisis" over the nominees.

Democrats filibustered 10 of Bush's 218 nominees in his first term, saying they were too radical for a lifetime appointment to the bench.

Forty-four Democrats and one independent in the current Senate have stuck to that position.

Bush has renominated seven of those judges -- including Texas Supreme Court Justice Priscilla Owen. Senate debate began last week on Owen's nomination to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Unable to garner the 60 votes necessary to end a filibuster -- a form of extended debate that has been part of Senate rules since the early 19th century -- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, has put into motion what some call the "nuclear option."

Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, moved Friday for cloture to end debate on Owen's nomination. The vote is set for Tuesday. (Full story)

If the cloture vote were to fail, Frist would use some parliamentary maneuvering, with help from Vice President Dick Cheney as the body's presiding officer, to get a vote on a procedural motion that effectively would limit debate on a judicial nominee, according to a scenario described by Senate sources cited in The Washington Post.

Such a procedural motion would not be subject to debate and presumably would pass with a simple majority of 51 votes, instead of the three-fifths supermajority required for cloture on a filibuster.

Once that happens, the Senate would set a time to vote on Owen's nomination, which would require only a simple majority for confirmation.

The "nuclear" aspect of the scenario is that it effectively would circumvent a Senate rule that requires a two-thirds vote of 67 to change a rule.

If the Republican majority eliminated the filibuster, Democrats threatened to use Senate rules to push their agenda and disrupt the GOP's -- effectively slowing the chamber's business to a crawl.

Earlier Monday, Bush called for the full Senate to vote on his judicial picks, saying his nominees deserve "a fair hearing."

"I expect them to get an up-or-down vote. That's what I expect," Bush said at a news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. "And I think the American people expect that as well."

Bush said his philosophy in selecting nominees has been been consistent.

"My job is to pick people who will interpret the Constitution, not use the bench from which to write law," Bush said.

The nominees under consideration have been tapped for federal appellate courts. But Supreme Court nominations -- including the chief justice post -- are likely at stake down the road.

[strandinthewind]

"My job is to pick people who will interpret the Constitution, not use the bench from which to write law," Bush said.
What an a$$, I mean I guess those pronciples do not hold true for the Republican appointed judge in the Terri Schiavo case who followed the MOTHER FU*&ING LETTER of the law - W just could not abide that - and that a$$hole Delay effectively called for someone to lynch that and other judges :mad:

bad night can ya tell :mad:

[gldstwmn]

What an a$$, I mean I guess those pronciples do not hold true for the Republican appointed judge in the Terri Schiavo case who followed the MOTHER FU*&ING LETTER of the law - W just could not abide that - and that a$$hole Delay effectively called for someone to lynch that and other judges :mad:

bad night can ya tell :mad:

:sorry: I'm just wondering if Pryor, Owens and Brown are going to be confirmed tomorrow.
This isn't good for Frist. Hee. :laugh:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Well I think a compromise is always good...although I wonder how the language in this is worded...because I know they said they compromised to NOT use the filibuster except in "extreme circumstances" I think it will be a big debate to define EXTREME...One Republican on the news mentioned that this deal leaves the door open for the nuclear option if the filibuster is "abused" in the future...So will the Republicans go back on their compromise if Democrats filibuster AT ALL? I mean it's all kinda suspicious to me...

I would have almost rather had the Democrats not agree on any deal, even if it meant the Republicans changing the rules...I dunno

Chris

[macfanken]

Hmmm... maybe I'm missing something, but how is this a compromise? :shrug: Basically the Dems agreed not to filibuster and the Rethuglicans agree not to use their "Nuclear Option" (nice choice of words) to do away with fillibusters. It seems to me like the Rethugs basically cried until they got their way. Am I wrong? :shrug:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Hmmm... maybe I'm missing something, but how is this a compromise? :shrug: Basically the Dems agreed not to filibuster and the Rethuglicans agree not to use their "Nuclear Option" (nice choice of words) to do away with fillibusters. It seems to me like the Rethugs basically cried until they got their way. Am I wrong? :shrug:


Well it is sorta compromise since the Dems only agreed to not filibuster 3 nominees, they made no agreements on others--and Republicans agreed to not use the "nuclear option"

Chris

[strandinthewind]

I agree - the two will not get a vote but the other three will. Personally, I think the D's should have stood their ground and refused all five. I think the sooner they show backbone - the better off they will be because this compromise in the end is essentially meaningless except IMO to show that the D's seem to think they have no chips to bargain with.

[macfanken]

Oh, I didn't realize there were 5, I thought there were only 3 nominees. The big fight will be for the Supreme Court... they can't back down then. :distress:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I agree - the two will not get a vote but the other three will. Personally, I think the D's should have stood their ground and refused all five. I think the sooner they show backbone - the better off they will be because this compromise in the end is essentially meaningless except IMO to show that the D's seem to think they have no chips to bargain with.


I agree to an extent---but do they really have any chips to bargain with otherwise? Sure they could "slow down Senate business to a crawl" but that would look unfavorable on them for elections--so they would never do it...Had they not accepted it , I do wonder tho if the Republicans would have had the votes to even enact the Nuclear option--possibly the reason the Republicans decided to "compromise" was because they didnt feel they had the votes?

Chris

[strandinthewind]

I agree to an extent---but do they really have any chips to bargain with otherwise? Sure they could "slow down Senate business to a crawl" but that would look unfavorable on them for elections--so they would never do it...Had they not accepted it , I do wonder tho if the Republicans would have had the votes to even enact the Nuclear option--possibly the reason the Republicans decided to "compromise" was because they didnt feel they had the votes?

Chris


All I know is Rove wins again. He took a situation where all but a handful have been approved and turned it into the D's are anti - religion and obstructionists and, once again, the D's just took it. I mean could you see Bill Clinton taking this crap - I think not.

[gldstwmn]

Hmmm... maybe I'm missing something, but how is this a compromise? :shrug: Basically the Dems agreed not to filibuster and the Rethuglicans agree not to use their "Nuclear Option" (nice choice of words) to do away with fillibusters. It seems to me like the Rethugs basically cried until they got their way. Am I wrong? :shrug:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=47847

Dobson Blasts Filibuster 'Betrayal'

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., May 23 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Focus on the Family Action Chairman Dr. James C. Dobson today issued the following statement, upon the announcement by members of the U.S. Senate that a "compromise" had been reached on the filibuster issue:

"This Senate agreement represents a complete bailout and betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats. Only three of President Bush’s nominees will be given the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, and it's business as usual for all the rest. The rules that blocked conservative nominees remain in effect, and nothing of significance has changed. Justice Clarence Thomas, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Chief Justice William Rehnquist would never have served on the U. S. Supreme Court if this agreement had been in place during their confirmations. The unconstitutional filibuster survives in the arsenal of Senate liberals.

"We are grateful to Majority Leader Frist for courageously fighting to defend the vital principle of basic fairness. That principle has now gone down to defeat. We share the disappointment, outrage and sense of abandonment felt by millions of conservative Americans who helped put Republicans in power last November. I am certain that these voters will remember both Democrats and Republicans who betrayed their trust."

----

[gldstwmn]

Well it is sorta compromise since the Dems only agreed to not filibuster 3 nominees, they made no agreements on others--and Republicans agreed to not use the "nuclear option"

Chris

The full Senate still has to have an up or down vote on the nominees and according to Senator Lindsay Graham, R-South Carolina at least one of the three will not make it through the up or down vote.
Also, Graham basically gave the finger to the White House in his speech with the gang of fourteen when he said the White House would have to work with them on the judicial nominees. :shocked:

[gldstwmn]

I do wonder tho if the Republicans would have had the votes to even enact the Nuclear option--possibly the reason the Republicans decided to "compromise" was because they didnt feel they had the votes?

Chris

I'd bet my house they didn't. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

Links to Graham's comments:
http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/cnn/cnn_ac_filibuster_deal_lindsey_graham_050523-01.rm

[dissention]

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=47847

Dobson Blasts Filibuster 'Betrayal'

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., May 23 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Focus on the Family Action Chairman Dr. James C. Dobson today issued the following statement, upon the announcement by members of the U.S. Senate that a "compromise" had been reached on the filibuster issue:

"This Senate agreement represents a complete bailout and betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats. Only three of President Bush’s nominees will be given the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, and it's business as usual for all the rest. The rules that blocked conservative nominees remain in effect, and nothing of significance has changed. Justice Clarence Thomas, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Chief Justice William Rehnquist would never have served on the U. S. Supreme Court if this agreement had been in place during their confirmations. The unconstitutional filibuster survives in the arsenal of Senate liberals.

"We are grateful to Majority Leader Frist for courageously fighting to defend the vital principle of basic fairness. That principle has now gone down to defeat. We share the disappointment, outrage and sense of abandonment felt by millions of conservative Americans who helped put Republicans in power last November. I am certain that these voters will remember both Democrats and Republicans who betrayed their trust."

----

:laugh:

I can hear the ulcers in those Dobson quotes!

[Merf]

Of course, the pundits don't care what's going on now-- everyone's already pushing for 2008. Joe Scarborough, the biggest douchebag on MSNBC (and deserves a spot at Fox News) noted that McCain's chances for the Republican nomination probably were hurt tonight because of his role in the compromise. Sad state of affairs, isn't it?

[gldstwmn]

Of course, the pundits don't care what's going on now-- everyone's already pushing for 2008. Joe Scarborough, the biggest douchebag on MSNBC (and deserves a spot at Fox News) noted that McCain's chances for the Republican nomination probably were hurt tonight because of his role in the compromise. Sad state of affairs, isn't it?

That's laughable. They're just trying to carry water for Frist now. He had a lot riding on this.

[strandinthewind]

That's laughable. They're just trying to carry water for Frist now. He had a lot riding on this.

and he lost - sort of. I think this is all subterfuge and classic Rove strategy to lay the ground rules for the USSC nominees. I think the fact that the D's caved means Rove knows the D will cave in the furture. This is a very convoluted thing and who knows what is going on.

[dissention]

Of course, the pundits don't care what's going on now-- everyone's already pushing for 2008. Joe Scarborough, the biggest douchebag on MSNBC (and deserves a spot at Fox News) noted that McCain's chances for the Republican nomination probably were hurt tonight because of his role in the compromise. Sad state of affairs, isn't it?

I don't know. MSNBC has an overabundance of douchebags at the moment. Even Tom Selleck narrates their programming promos, for cripes sake. At this point, there's no way that the Republicans are going to nominate anyone who is remotely middle-of-the-road like McCain is on certain things. Everyone is screaming that Giuliani is going to get the nom, but he's too liberal for them. Now that they've had a taste of what it's like to have someone as extreme and loony as Bush in the White House calling the shots, they'll die before they revert to anything less extreme ever again.

[Merf]

I don't know. MSNBC has an overabundance of douchebags at the moment. Even Tom Selleck narrates their programming promos, for cripes sake. At this point, there's no way that the Republicans are going to nominate anyone who is remotely middle-of-the-road like McCain is on certain things. Everyone is screaming that Giuliani is going to get the nom, but he's too liberal for them. Now that they've had a taste of what it's like to have someone as extreme and loony as Bush in the White House calling the shots, they'll die before they revert to anything less extreme ever again.

Not all of them. I think the moderate republicans, especially the ones that took part in the news conference today, are finally understanding how fascist and damn scary this administration is. [For example, Lindsey Graham from SC, whom I once thought to be hella scary, took part in it, which was shocking to me] Hopefully more of them will fall in line with the middle and take back their party, because as it stands now, it is getting more and more like fascism and less and less like America. But I'm sure three years from now they will put some nutjob up and they will lose the election. America is tiring of the extremist right wing. Just look at Bush's approval numbers. They are poor.

[gldstwmn]

and he lost - sort of. I think this is all subterfuge and classic Rove strategy to lay the ground rules for the USSC nominees. I think the fact that the D's caved means Rove knows the D will cave in the furture. This is a very convoluted thing and who knows what is going on.

Frist didn't have the votes. Otherwise he would have pulled the trigger.

[gldstwmn]

Not all of them. I think the moderate republicans, especially the ones that took part in the news conference today, are finally understanding how fascist and damn scary this administration is. [For example, Lindsey Graham from SC, whom I once thought to be hella scary, took part in it, which was shocking to me]

Senator Warner also participated which raised my eyebrows.
Best trying to have it both ways award goes to DeWine of Ohio.

[Merf]

Senator Warner also participated which raised my eyebrows.
Best trying to have it both ways award goes to DeWine of Ohio.

That definitely raised my eyebrows. You have to wonder what some of these people's true intentions are. You can be moderate but that isn't the same thing as playing both sides of the fence.

[dissention]

Not all of them. I think the moderate republicans, especially the ones that took part in the news conference today, are finally understanding how fascist and damn scary this administration is. [For example, Lindsey Graham from SC, whom I once thought to be hella scary, took part in it, which was shocking to me] Hopefully more of them will fall in line with the middle and take back their party, because as it stands now, it is getting more and more like fascism and less and less like America. But I'm sure three years from now they will put some nutjob up and they will lose the election. America is tiring of the extremist right wing. Just look at Bush's approval numbers. They are poor.

It doesn't take much to fool the American public. If they pulled it off this past election, they'll have no problem doing it in 2008. This country has been on the path to fascism ever since Election 2000, the fact that people are only now finally beginning to realize it is what I, personally, find so scary. I just want to collectively slap all of these people and ask them why they were so blind to recognize it in the beginning. Besides, we've still got a few more years of this garbage. I'm going to wait for the Republicans to work their magic before I happily rejoice in what I hope will be their downfall.

[amber]

It doesn't take much to fool the American public. If they pulled it off this past election, they'll have no problem doing it in 2008. This country has been on the path to fascism ever since Election 2000, the fact that people are only now finally beginning to realize it is what I, personally, find so scary. I just want to collectively slap all of these people and ask them why they were so blind to recognize it in the beginning. Besides, we've still got a few more years of this garbage. I'm going to wait for the Republicans to work their magic before I happily rejoice in what I hope will be their downfall.
Nice post. I call road to fascism since 1981. Superfascism 2000. Hey, it's no accident that education is underfunded. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Interestingly, if Rudy G. did run, he would win and I could live that even though he is a pill. Interestingly, the R's have few moderate candidates so far. They are all, mostly because of the positioning in the last 4 years, religious extremitsts. I think the tide is starting to turn a little due to people realizing Iraq was wrong, we are relatively safe despite the insane color coding crap, and the economy, though better, is FAR from what W promised. So, we shall see. I mean had 9/11 never happened, I truly believe W would never have been elected for a second term. I mean Kerry very well almost beat W (all arguments aside) and it was Kerry's to lose, etc. So, the religious extremist thing, I think, is waning a little. But, we shall see.

[strandinthewind]

Not all of them. I think the moderate republicans, especially the ones that took part in the news conference today, are finally understanding how fascist and damn scary this administration is. [For example, Lindsey Graham from SC, whom I once thought to be hella scary, took part in it, which was shocking to me] Hopefully more of them will fall in line with the middle and take back their party, because as it stands now, it is getting more and more like fascism and less and less like America. But I'm sure three years from now they will put some nutjob up and they will lose the election. America is tiring of the extremist right wing. Just look at Bush's approval numbers. They are poor.

oops - ditto :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

It doesn't take much to fool the American public. If they pulled it off this past election, they'll have no problem doing it in 2008. This country has been on the path to fascism ever since Election 2000, the fact that people are only now finally beginning to realize it is what I, personally, find so scary. I just want to collectively slap all of these people and ask them why they were so blind to recognize it in the beginning. Besides, we've still got a few more years of this garbage. I'm going to wait for the Republicans to work their magic before I happily rejoice in what I hope will be their downfall.

But don't you think the fact that a bumbler like Kerry almost won proves people are not so easily fooled. It clearly was Kerry's to lose and he did so, which does not mean W won on his merits. But, we shall see I guess.

[dissention]

Interestingly, if Rudy G. did run, he would win and I could live that even though he is a pill. Interestingly, the R's have few moderate candidates so far. They are all, mostly because of the positioning in the last 4 years, religious extremitsts. I think the tide is starting to turn a little due to people realizing Iraq was wrong, we are relatively safe despite the insane color coding crap, and the economy, though better, is FAR from what W promised. So, we shall see. I mean had 9/11 never happened, I truly believe W would never have been elected for a second term. I mean Kerry very well almost beat W (all arguments aside) and it was Kerry's to lose, etc. So, the religious extremist thing, I think, is waning a little. But, we shall see.

I'm beginning to suspect more and more that my very own Mutt Romney will get the nomination in 2008. Color me insane, but I'm convinced of it. I didn't think they'd dare, but I'm not so sure at this point. He's already going to get the boot in the upcoming election and he's been essentially promoting himself across the country for the job ever since he was first elected governor. He's been in dozens of states badmouthing Mass and trying to distance himself from us, I think that says something about his intentions and aspirations within his party.

[strandinthewind]

I'm beginning to suspect more and more that my very own Mutt Romney will get the nomination in 2008. Color me insane, but I'm convinced of it. I didn't think they'd dare, but I'm not so sure at this point. He's already going to get the boot in the upcoming election and he's been essentially promoting himself across the country for the job ever since he was first elected governor. He's been in dozens of states badmouthing Mass and trying to distance himself from us, I think that says something about his intentions and aspirations within his party.


I sort of think that too, esp. in light of his staunch support for anti-gay rights and what they can paint as a crusader against gay people, etc. But, the fact that he is from MA will never play in the South to the effect that they need.

I think McCain is positioning himself nicely and Frist is trying, but the heir apparent is not doing so well and who knows what they can did up on him and his crooked hospitals.

I think they may get Jeb, who would be fairly unbeatable at this point.

[dissention]

But don't you think the fact that a bumbler like Kerry almost won proves people are not so easily fooled. It clearly was Kerry's to lose and he did so, which does not mean W won on his merits. But, we shall see I guess.

Enough people were obviously fooled if we're suffering through this current bastard regime for the second time.

[amber]

Enough people were obviously fooled if we're suffering through this current bastard regime for the second time.
I tend to agree.

[dissention]

I sort of think that too, esp. in light of his staunch support for anti-gay rights and what they can paint as a crusader against gay people, etc. But, the fact that he is from MA will never play in the South to the effect that they need.

All he has to do is play his Utah Mormon card. It could work. To what effect, I've no idea, but he can play it.

I think McCain is positioning himself nicely and Frist is trying, but the heir apparent is not doing so well and who knows what they can did up on him and his crooked hospitals.

Dr. Frist will never get it. No way. Not with his hospitals. :laugh:

I don't think McCain wants it, so I don't see it happening.

I think they may get Jeb, who would be fairly unbeatable at this point.

You've effectively ensured me that I'll have nightmares tonight.

[strandinthewind]

Enough people were obviously fooled if we're suffering through this current bastard regime for the second time.

Well, that is not exactly true - my point was people looked at Kerry and his perceived double talk and thought W was the lesser of two evils. They thought although W is an idiot who got us into a BS war (against Arabs who most Americans I submit could care a less about) but Kerry cannot be trusted. Those "lesser of two evil" voters were, as always IMO, the ones that elect Presidents. Again, it was Kerry's to lose, not Bush's to win.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

i think it will be either Mccain or Guiliani for the republicans in 08

and Kerry or Clinton for Dems

Chris

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Well, that is not exactly true - my point was people looked at Kerry and his perceived double talk and thought W was the lesser of two evils. They thought although W is an idiot who got us into a BS war (against Arabs who most Americans I submit could care a less about) but Kerry cannot be trusted. Those "lesser of two evil" voters were, as always IMO, the ones that elect Presidents. Again, it was Kerry's to lose, not Bush's to win.


You're right...my mom said today..she wouldve voted for Edwards, but she felt like Kerry lied, and wasnt honest about issues...so she voted for Bush who she felt was "honest" atleast...well of course I disagree with that, if she only knew how HONEST he is lol
Chris

[strandinthewind]

. . . You've effectively ensured me that I'll have nightmares tonight.

I am sorry darling :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

THe real question is who will the D's put up. It most certainly is Hillary's if she wants it. Other than Hillary, I can see John Breaux, who is very moderate and well liked and from the South. He has been out of politics for awhile now - so who knows. It is widely rumored Clark will run again - in fact my friends who had dinner with him not that long ago implied as such. Dean is just too nuts, though I like him. I think if the D's put up a ball breaker like Dean, they may have a chance, but it is still too early to tell.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I dont think Dean will run again, he seems to be liking his DNC Chair job..and promised if he ran for DNC Chair he wouldnt run for Pres in 08

Chris

[dissention]

Well, that is not exactly true - my point was people looked at Kerry and his perceived double talk and thought W was the lesser of two evils.

Which is exactly how they were fooled. They bought into that "lesser of two evils" **** when comparing the two. Anyone with half a f*cking brain would realize that Kerry was a dip****, but that he was a God compared to Shrub. One of the big elements of the Bush campaign was to push Bush as the lesser of two evils to the moderates and undecideds by pointing out Kerry's doublespeak. And it worked, because the voters were obviously fooled into believing it.

They thought although W is an idiot who got us into a BS war (against Arabs who most Americans I submit could care a less about) but Kerry cannot be trusted. Those "lesser of two evil" voters were, as always IMO, the ones that elect Presidents. Again, it was Kerry's to lose, not Bush's to win.

Yes, Jason. I'm sure that's exactly what they thought.

"Bush got us into a bull**** war, but the one that can't be trusted is John Forbes Kerry."

:laugh: Kind of shows you how f*cked up ther logic and reasoning skills are.

[dissention]

I am sorry darling :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

It's okay, I've had the same nightmares before, so I know how to deal. :laugh:

THe real question is who will the D's put up. It most certainly is Hillary's if she wants it. Other than Hillary, I can see John Breaux, who is very moderate and well liked and from the South. He has been out of politics for awhile now - so who knows. It is widely rumored Clark will run again - in fact my friends who had dinner with him not that long ago implied as such. Dean is just too nuts, though I like him. I think if the D's put up a ball breaker like Dean, they may have a chance, but it is still too early to tell.

If they want to lose, they'll nominate Hillary. :thumbsup:

Clark would be a fool to run again. He'd have as much success as Braun, bless her heart because I love her dearly. Clark is the man who said marriage was an "art" and that intelligence was a "gray goo." Wouldn't even get my vote and they'd play that clip of him and Michael Moore 24/7 on the tittytainment news channels. :laugh:

I wonder if they'll dare to nominate Obama, actually.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Yes, Jason. I'm sure that's exactly what they thought.

"Bush got us into a bull**** war, but the one that can't be trusted is John Forbes Kerry."

:laugh: Kind of shows you how f*cked up ther logic and reasoning skills are.

I think so too. But, Kerry just looked like a bafoon next to W and the Rove machine. They ate his lunch - period. And - I willingly admit that is hard to do as Kerry is a VERY smart man. I also have to wonder on what level him having a foreign born wife played into it. I heard from soooooo many people that she was just an awful woman, blah blah blah. But, speculation regarding why aside, he still lost and it was his to lose. I truly think if he had done as Clinton suggested and address every single attack within hours of it and hammer away at the non truth of it, he would have done better. But, he did not - such is history.

I will say this though, Rove will have met his match in Hillary. She has some of Bill's teflon and the fact that Bill will actively stump for he cannot hurt her.

It shall be a very very interesting next year :nod:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

If they want to lose, they'll nominate Hillary. :thumbsup:




Maybe Barbara Boxer then? lol

Chris

[strandinthewind]

. . . I wonder if they'll dare to nominate Obama, actually.

As VP maybe - but not as Pres. because ignoring the obvious racial issue (which is sad) he will perhaps correctly be considered inexperienced. He would, however, make a GREAT VP to Hillary's Pres. He would and could bring much of the black vote that went to the R's due to the gay marriage red herring. I think Hillary could win, depending on the R's candidate. Against, Rudy, she would most likely lose because NY would then be up for grabs. Against Frist or some other hardline right winger, she would would do better because she is seen as moderate, which in fact she is though the right paint her as horribly liberal.

[dissention]

I think so too. But, Kerry just looked like a bafoon next to W and the Rove machine. They ate his lunch - period. And - I willingly admit that is hard to do as Kerry is a VERY smart man. I also have to wonder on what level him having a foreign born wife played into it. I heard from soooooo many people that she was just an awful woman, blah blah blah. But, speculation regarding why aside, he still lost and it was his to lose. I truly think if he had done as Clinton suggested and address every single attack within hours of it and hammer away at the non truth of it, he would have done better. But, he did not - such is history.

Kerry's smart when he doesn't speak. Once he opens his mouth, he f*cks it up. If it isn't a scripted and heavily vetted line, he lays waste to himself. Mary beth Cahill ran the most incompetent campaign I've ever seen. I mean, it was horrendous. The way they hid from the Swift Boat Vets was unbelievable. I think that the American public wanted to see him come out and attack their claims, but were letdown when he didn't and they saw that as a big sign of weakness. It really hurt him.

I will say this though, Rove will have met his match in Hillary. She has some of Bill's teflon and the fact that Bill will actively stump for he cannot hurt her.

It shall be a very very interesting next year :nod:

I just find it implausible that Hil would run. If she does, it will certainly be the best presidential race in history. :laugh:

[dissention]

Maybe Barbara Boxer then? lol

Chris

I spray my shorts at the thought. Gawd, I love her. She's got a hefty pair of brass balls.

[amber]

Maybe Barbara Boxer then? lol

Chris
Oh, if we're talking about superfantasyland!!! :thumbsup:

[dissention]

As VP maybe - but not as Pres. because ignoring the obvious racial issue (which is sad) he will perhaps correctly be considered inexperienced. He would, however, make a GREAT VP to Hillary's Pres. He would and could bring much of the black vote that went to the R's due to the gay marriage red herring. I think Hillary could win, depending on the R's candidate. Against, Rudy, she would most likely lose because NY would then be up for grabs. Against Frist or some other hardline right winger, she would would do better because she is seen as moderate, which in fact she is though the right paint her as horribly liberal.

I think Hillary alone would get the black vote, she doesn't really need Obama for it. Her last name is Clinton, after all, and her husband is Bill.

Have I ever said how much I can't stand Obama? Oh, man, he's right up there with Bush for me on the obnoxious scale. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . I just find it implausible that Hil would run. If she does, it will certainly be the best presidential race in history. :laugh:

Lord Child - if that happens, I may have to move to Mass. and buy the house next to you so we can yell at each other in person :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I think Hillary alone would get the black vote, she doesn't really need Obama for it. Her last name is Clinton, after all, and her husband is Bill.

Have I ever said how much I can't stand Obama? Oh, man, he's right up there with Bush for me on the obnoxious scale. :laugh:


I think he is okay enough I guess - but he is a little too smooth in that creepy preacher way for my taste :cool:

[dissention]

Lord Child - if that happens, I may have to move to Mass. and buy the house next to you so we can yell at each other in person :laugh:

Yup, I'll have lots of nightmares tonight. :laugh:

[dissention]

I think he is okay enough I guess - but he is a little too smooth in that creepy preacher way for my taste :cool:

Ooh, good description.

I find him to be so phoney and cheap. He really gets under my skin. I wouldn't vote for him EVER. I'd stay home from the polls before that happened.

[strandinthewind]

Yup, I'll have lots of nightmares tonight. :laugh:


I'll get Hayden to come live with me and be the yard boy - better :wavey:

[dissention]

I'll get Hayden to come live with me and be the yard boy - better :wavey:

:laugh:

Ah, sweet dreams at last. :p

[strandinthewind]

:laugh:

Ah, sweet dreams at last. :p


Did I mention he will do it shirtless and I will give you a pair of binoculars :p :p :p :p

[dissention]

Did I mention he will do it shirtless and I will give you a pair of binoculars :p :p :p :p

Gawd, stop slutting up this thread, you hussey.











(No need for binoculars. I'll just plant myself on your steps with a towel in my lap for him. :P )

[strandinthewind]

Gawd, stop slutting up this thread, you hussey.











(No need for binoculars. I'll just plant myself on your steps with a towel in my lap for him. :P )


LOL - I am envisioning Blanche Dubois and the drug store delivery boy - "Young Man - young young young young young man - you make my mouth waaaaater" ostensibly referring to the though of the lemon coke with chipped ice :eek:

[dissention]

LOL - I am envisioning Blanche Dubois and the drug store delivery boy - "Young Man - young young young young young man - you make my mouth waaaaater" ostensibly referring to the though of the lemon coke with chipped ice :eek:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Reminds me of that old joke about the horny old lady who has a bagboy bring her groceries out to her car at the supermarket, can't handle herself any longer and blurts out "Young man, I have an itchy booty," only to be rebuffed when the young man says "Sorry, lady, I don't know one Japanese car from the next."

I *love* that one. I still laugh when I think of it. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Reminds me of that old joke about the horny old lady who has a bagboy bring her groceries out to her car at the supermarket, can't handle herself any longer and blurts out "Young man, I have an itchy booty," only to be rebuffed when the young man says "Sorry, lady, I don't know one Japanese car from the next."

I *love* that one. I still laugh when I think of it. :laugh:


:] :] :] :] :] :]

I never heard that one

[dissention]

:] :] :] :] :] :]

I never heard that one

I am laughing hysterically right now, it's not even funny. :laugh:

I must retire for the evening, love. It's been enchanting. :laugh: :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

I am laughing hysterically right now, it's not even funny. :laugh:

I must retire for the evening, love. It's been enchanting. :laugh: :wavey:
Ta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!