Unite to stop extortion to hear new song

[seeknpeace]

Regardless of how you feel about the sell of the new cd that has surfaced on eBay with a new Lindsey song, (there is ample pontificating on the other thread), I would recommend that we band together to stop the sell at the price currently being asked. The seller is now wanting 500.00 for this cd. That just infuriates me. I think that we need to back off and let him eat that cd.

[wondergirl9847]

Bite me. Please, NOBODY pay that...that is most def extortion. :mad:

[chiliD]

Just one intricately worded email to eBay would kill the auction anyway. Who's game to compose & send it?

[seeknpeace]

Just one intricately worded email to eBay would kill the auction anyway. Who's game to compose & send it?

Hi...the seller pulled the auction. Stated it was pulled because the minimum required was not set properly? (ie: I think that I can get more than I first thought?). So, the eBay auction is ended. He is aware that a group wants to buy, so he has increased the price to 500.00 as a private sale. The only way to stop him is to not buy it.

[Dark Angel]

Hi...the seller pulled the auction. Stated it was pulled because the minimum required was not set properly? (ie: I think that I can get more than I first thought?). So, the eBay auction is ended. He is aware that a group wants to buy, so he has increased the price to 500.00 as a private sale. The only way to stop him is to not buy it.

What a greedy little SOB! I hate people like that. :mad:

[sodascouts]

I've already turned him down.

[seeknpeace]

I've already turned him down.

I am so glad that you did, and I thought that you would. My biggest reason for this thread was any other fans he may contact...to put it into perspective. :xoxo:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I'm fairly certain everyone he contacted was from our group. I'd love to turn him into ebay because to my knowledge, this is against e-bays rules and regulations. You can't just stop bidding on an item because you come to the conclusion you'd profit more if you sold privately. I'm going to go ahead and read over at e-bay and see what I can find.

[seeknpeace]

I'm fairly certain everyone he contacted was from our group. I'd love to turn him into ebay because to my knowledge, this is against e-bays rules and regulations. You can't just stop bidding on an item because you come to the conclusion you'd profit more if you sold privately. I'm going to go ahead and read over at e-bay and see what I can find.

Make sure that I have my info right about why he ended the auction...I am going on other emails that I have read. Nancy may know his story on that. But, it is against the rules to list an item, stop it and then contact anyone who has bid or expressed an interest to sell outside of eBay as I understand it. He has broken several eBay rules.

[wondergirl9847]

I wonder if I shouldn't have even posted it here. It just caused a big mess. :distress:

I'm sorry to everyone. :sorry:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I wonder if I shouldn't have even posted it here. It just caused a big mess. :distress:

I'm sorry to everyone. :sorry:

Honey, it's not your fault. Keep in mind that The Penguin has the option to show e-bay adds on the side of the forum. We would have seen it and bought the subject up to begin with. This isn't something you caused.

[trackaghost]

I wonder if I shouldn't have even posted it here. It just caused a big mess. :distress:

I'm sorry to everyone. :sorry:

No, I'm sorry Christy. I was the one who took the bait when everyone else was ignoring the argument.
I had promised myself not to get involved in any stupid debates on The Ledge too :o
Ah, well.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Make sure that I have my info right about why he ended the auction...I am going on other emails that I have read. Nancy may know his story on that. But, it is against the rules to list an item, stop it and then contact anyone who has bid or expressed an interest to sell outside of eBay as I understand it. He has broken several eBay rules.

In reference to ebay item 4723583396, Lindsey Buckingham - New Mixes Studio Demo, the seller claims (to ebay) that he ended the auction because "of an error in the minimum bid or Reserve amount" which is obviously bull****. Not only did he contact you and Nancy but he contacted another friend of mine as well and even told the story of how previously he had a an LP up for auction that apparently was quite sought after. The seller was told by the winner of this LP how much it was actually worth. This is when he first realized that he could get more if he went off of e-bay...we all wanted it and he knew it.

[seeknpeace]

In reference to ebay item 4723583396, Lindsey Buckingham - New Mixes Studio Demo, the seller claims (to ebay) that he ended the auction because "of an error in the minimum bid or Reserve amount" which is obviously bull****. Not only did he contact you and Nancy but he contacted another friend of mine as well and even told the story of how previously he had a an LP up for auction that apparently was quite sought after. The seller was told by the winner of this LP how much it was actually worth. This is when he first realized that he could get more if he went off of e-bay...we all wanted it and he knew it.

that is what I thought. We all need to report him to eBay. Of course, he will probably just create another user name. I was not contacted by the jerk, but, was in the pool. So, we need to post his name and info here too. No one should deal with him.

And, please no one apologize for posting the info to begin with. Hey, that is what we do, we point one another to things and that is part of the beauty of being a fan in this age of technology. 15 years ago it was hit or miss and trade groups, all in the dark more or less. So, you did a good thing. Nothing that was said or happened anywhere is reflected back to you. :xoxo:

[Kelly]

that is what I thought. We all need to report him to eBay. Of course, he will probably just create another user name. I was not contacted by the jerk, but, was in the pool. So, we need to post his name and info here too. No one should deal with him.

And, please no one apologize for posting the info to begin with. Hey, that is what we do, we point one another to things and that is part of the beauty of being a fan in this age of technology. 15 years ago it was hit or miss and trade groups, all in the dark more or less. So, you did a good thing. Nothing that was said or happened anywhere is reflected back to you. :xoxo:

I reported him ...everyone else should as well. You cannot stop an auction because you can get a higher price by selling it privately. HE SOLICITED the buyers from ebay...they want their cut for bringing him his business. He emailed me...I was only a watcher on the item so I have no idea how he got my email addy. I guess he somehow obtained the list of watchers. He contacted a good friend of mine and said he had a ton of people interested and what was she willing to bid? he told her he sold another one of these a few months back and made a ton of money. JACKASS.
BTW..he also said LBs management had made no attempt to stop him, just one potential buyer who claimed they knew LB and was speaking for him, expressing his disgust. That was the current high bidder when the auction ended. IMO, that person would have bid the item up to crazy amounts and then never paid for it. :shrug:

[seeknpeace]

I reported him ...everyone else should as well. You cannot stop an auction because you can get a higher price by selling it privately. HE SOLICITED the buyers from ebay...they want their cut for bringing him his business. He emailed me...I was only a watcher on the item so I have no idea how he got my email addy. I guess he somehow obtained the list of watchers. He contacted a good friend of mine and said he had a ton of people interested and what was she willing to bid? he told her he sold another one of these a few months back and made a ton of money. JACKASS.
BTW..he also said LBs management had made no attempt to stop him, just one potential buyer who claimed they knew LB and was speaking for him, expressing his disgust. That was the current high bidder when the auction ended. IMO, that person would have bid the item up to crazy amounts and then never paid for it. :shrug:

Hi...when you sell an item, you get a list of the watchers. So, that is how he was able to know. Everyone that he has contacted has been told the same story. Maybe we need to start this thread in the Rumours area too. I don't want anyone to buy this from him at that price.

[seeknpeace]

I reported him ...everyone else should as well. You cannot stop an auction because you can get a higher price by selling it privately. HE SOLICITED the buyers from ebay...they want their cut for bringing him his business. He emailed me...I was only a watcher on the item so I have no idea how he got my email addy. I guess he somehow obtained the list of watchers. He contacted a good friend of mine and said he had a ton of people interested and what was she willing to bid? he told her he sold another one of these a few months back and made a ton of money. JACKASS.
BTW..he also said LBs management had made no attempt to stop him, just one potential buyer who claimed they knew LB and was speaking for him, expressing his disgust. That was the current high bidder when the auction ended. IMO, that person would have bid the item up to crazy amounts and then never paid for it. :shrug:

One other thing, can someone please provide his auction name, email addy and name if you have it so that we all know who to avoid? Thanks!!

[sodascouts]

I'd like to post his actual e-mails here, but that's against Ledge rules, isn't it?

[seeknpeace]

I'd like to post his actual e-mails here, but that's against Ledge rules, isn't it?

I am not sure, but, perhaps you could "paraphrase"? ;)

[EnchantedSLN]

Hi...when you sell an item, you get a list of the watchers. So, that is how he was able to know. Everyone that he has contacted has been told the same story. Maybe we need to start this thread in the Rumours area too. I don't want anyone to buy this from him at that price.

Actually, you can see how many watchers your item has, but you can't see their usernames or contact information unless they have placed a bid. It's perplexing as to how he was able to get the e-mail addresses of people who hadn't bid or contacted him previously with a question about it. Maybe he's harvesting them from fan boards (or reading along here)... I know I've been solicited to buy bootlegs and crap that way before.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I e-mailed him with questions on the item...so did the person Kelly is referring to as well as many others (I would assume). What better way to make a deal then to take those people who had questions or wanted to know why bidding had stopped and see if they'd like to buy? As far as him knowing this board is in existance, I'm going to go ahead and doubt it. He was dumber than a box of rocks--and that's being kind. Although he is being incredibly sly with his ploy to get us to pay an astronomical amount....

I won't mind putting an e-mail in to e-bay if we're all going to do this. Kelly, what did you end up saying if you don't mind my asking?

[WelshWitchPMD]

I would like to help put this $#*&@ in his place! I was one of the people that wanted to get in on the CD. I really did not want to give the $150.00 to this person but I figured that if we all chipped in and traded it freely it might prevent to some degree price gouging on any future copies of this CD, :shrug:

[SteveMacD]

Here's a thought: maybe he came here and followed discussions amongst Lindsey fans. A Leggie's e-mail addy can be listed on his or her profile.

[glitter_fades]

Here's a thought: maybe he came here and followed discussions amongst Lindsey fans. A Leggie's e-mail addy can be listed on his or her profile.

Knowing a group was willing to buy it gave him a lot of leverage. He thought.

[Nicks Fan]

I hate greedy people. I was thinking of bidding but not at that price. FORGET IT !!!! I say we take him down!!!!!

[Kelly]

I clicked on under the REPORT a SELLER...and they gave me a list of choices to click on as to what I was reporting. It was a generalized form. I clicked OTHER and spelled it all out in an email that he solicitated business with me after removing his auction item. I explained that his auction started off at a certain price, was up to about 200 when he pulled it and he contacted me asking me what the most I was willing to pay for the item. This is against their rules. It is cutting ebay completely out of the transaction.

Also..he should never have been able to see my email addy if I was just a watcher on the item. Only a bidder..which I was not. I asked him a question AFTER he contacted me about whether anyone from LBs management had complained to him.

I want to let this guy sweat it out for a bit..although someone will probably buy it from him and we could lose out. What a greedy man.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

There is no way you can see who is actually 'watching' your auction. He had to have gotten your email addy elsewhere. I'm thinking he has been lurking on here

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

The more I think about it the more I'm sure he was reading the other thread. If he was he would have seen everyone pooling money and Nancy being told to stop bidding and pushing the price up. That happened in that thread didn't it? So he pulled it cause he knew he could try to get more money privately and thought everyone on here would be prepared to pay anything

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Hmmm...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4725550641

He relisted it... all be it very briefly.. before endingit again

Pip

[seeknpeace]

The more I think about it the more I'm sure he was reading the other thread. If he was he would have seen everyone pooling money and Nancy being told to stop bidding and pushing the price up. That happened in that thread didn't it? So he pulled it cause he knew he could try to get more money privately and thought everyone on here would be prepared to pay anything

Yeah, I had that wrong. I was remembering that I could see how many ppl were watching it, it has been a long time since I sold anything on there. Sorry bout that folks. This dude sure does have a lot of stuff he is selling on eBay. They won't do anything about this. He is making too much money for eBay. Sucks. :shrug:

[GODDESS6]

I reported him ...everyone else should as well. You cannot stop an auction because you can get a higher price by selling it privately. HE SOLICITED the buyers from ebay...they want their cut for bringing him his business. He emailed me...I was only a watcher on the item so I have no idea how he got my email addy. I guess he somehow obtained the list of watchers. He contacted a good friend of mine and said he had a ton of people interested and what was she willing to bid? he told her he sold another one of these a few months back and made a ton of money. JACKASS.
BTW..he also said LBs management had made no attempt to stop him, just one potential buyer who claimed they knew LB and was speaking for him, expressing his disgust. That was the current high bidder when the auction ended. IMO, that person would have bid the item up to crazy amounts and then never paid for it. :shrug:

i was a watcher from the very beginning, & i am pretty huge buyer/seller on ebay, the guy is a farce~ but all of a sudden u c tons of peeps selling stevie's demos, & i c some1 is now selling the '83 US festival on dvd, on there, i don't know y sometimes ebay does something about it & sometimes they seem 2 overlook this stuff~ it all confuses me :shrug: ~

[xxxmx]

i hate ebay. i hate seeing headings like 'ultra super rare import' and 'one of a kind live show'... hate!

this guy sounds like a total douchebag, his downfall would bring a smile to my face. we should form a watchdog group, protecting the innocent and uninformed from sellers such as him.

i want to message the sellers and be like 'you have no soul, that's up for free download this week on suchasite.com, i hope the karma police assault and batter you'...

the buckingham/nicks 'rare deluxe import' cd drives me insane.

[Sugar]

I was also watching this auction (mostly out of curiousity) and no one contacted me, so he must have gotten the emails from elsewhere. :shrug:

YES it drives me crazy to see all this stuff being sold. After he ended the auction I went to look for it under "completed auctions" and it made me sick to see all the GOS that have been sold. I've actually considered setting up an auction and having "Buckingham/Nicks or GOS in the title and then in the actual ad saying that NO ONE has to pay for this stuff and directing them to where they can get it or maybe just telling them to contact me and I could email them where to find it or something like that. Ebay would probably pull it eventually, but if it would help get the word out to people... :shrug:

[Street_Dreamer]

If you want Lindsey's management to solve this situation, email Jessica ([email protected]) and notify her of this and she can get to the proper channels to try to get rid of this. Whether this album was for $500.00 or 5 cents, it has no business being on eBay or anywhere else for that matter. If Lindsey wanted these songs to be heard by everyone else, they would already be out there for the rest of us to listen to. NOBODY should have access to these songs.

Matt

[dissention]

If you want Lindsey's management to solve this situation, email Jessica ([email protected]) and notify her of this and she can get to the proper channels to try to get rid of this. Whether this album was for $500.00 or 5 cents, it has no business being on eBay or anywhere else for that matter. If Lindsey wanted these songs to be heard by everyone else, they would already be out there for the rest of us to listen to. NOBODY should have access to these songs.

Matt

Yeah, you have such a big problem with unreleased material (the version of Thrown Down that was leaked in late '02 comes to mind) and promo copies (which this very well may be) that you never turned down such things in the past. You and your girlfriend should chip in together and buy this mystery disc on eBay so that you can withhold it from everyone, then wave it in front their faces that you have it and they don't. You and others may complain about this getting sold right now, but as soon as it gets out and someone like Nancy or Sara posts it on their site, you'll make a mad dash to download it.

Or are you just jumping in here to get negative responses on purpose like last time? ;)

[dissention]

Well exactly, hence the last thread. But people only seem to have a problem with the sale when the fans are being ripped off. The extortion should be prevented because this is somebody's unauthorised work but if it's at a easonable price, it's seemingly ok.

I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer and I probably never will be, but your logic regarding this "unauthorized" work is perplexing to me. You justify listening to Gift of Screws because it's already out and once it's out "it's out," yet in the next breath you say that such material being out there doesn't sit well with Lindsey and we should respect that. My question is, have you or are you going to throw out your copy of Gift of Screws? It is unauthorized, you say that it hurts Lindsey on some level because it got leaked, yet you have no qualms listening to it and getting pleasure from it. It seems to me that if you want to show him respect in regards to his unreleased material, you wouldn't listen to it at all.

If my sister bought a stolen stereo and I knew about it, would it be okay for me to listen to music on it because it's already been stolen?

[seeknpeace]

Well exactly, hence the last thread. But people only seem to have a problem with the sale when the fans are being ripped off. The extortion should be prevented because this is somebody's unauthorised work but if it's at a easonable price, it's seemingly ok.

I don't think that anyone has said that except you. Over and Over and Over and Over. And, you yourself said that you contacted East End and that they do not care...can you lighten up a tad and enjoy life?

[seeknpeace]

Yeah, you have such a big problem with unreleased material (the version of Thrown Down that was leaked in late '02 comes to mind) and promo copies (which this very well may be) that you never turned down such things in the past. You and your girlfriend should chip in together and buy this mystery disc on eBay so that you can withhold it from everyone, then wave it in front their faces that you have it and they don't. You and others may complain about this getting sold right now, but as soon as it gets out and someone like Nancy or Sara posts it on their site, you'll make a mad dash to download it.

Or are you just jumping in here to get negative responses on purpose like last time? ;)

Thank you Josh....very much. Just so much blah blah. Yada yada yada.

[Street_Dreamer]

Yeah, you have such a big problem with unreleased material (the version of Thrown Down that was leaked in late '02 comes to mind) and promo copies (which this very well may be) that you never turned down such things in the past. You and your girlfriend should chip in together and buy this mystery disc on eBay so that you can withhold it from everyone, then wave it in front their faces that you have it and they don't. You and others may complain about this getting sold right now, but as soon as it gets out and someone like Nancy or Sara posts it on their site, you'll make a mad dash to download it.

Or are you just jumping in here to get negative responses on purpose like last time? ;)

That version of Thrown Down that I had on my short lived download site was purposefully edited on my own behalf so people like you could think you had some sort of special version of the song when it really wasn't. It was the studio version that I messed around with to give it a different sound. As far as downloading this material, no I would never download it because I do not download music anymore and I most certainly don't go to other Fleetwood Mac websites for the purpose of downloading music. As time passes, folks change their opinions and my opinion about downloading demos or unreleased tracks has.
People like you are the reason that I haven't posted here in God knows how long and I probably won't post here again for a while. Thanks for reminding me!

Matt

[dissention]

Don't be such an ass. Firstly, that version of Thrown Down that I had was purposefully edited on my own behalf. It was the studio version that I messed around with to give it a different sound. As far as downloading this material, no I would never download it because I do not download music anymore and I most certainly don't go to other Fleetwood Mac websites for the purpose of downloading music. As time passes, folks change their opinions and my opinion about downloading demos or unreleased tracks has. And I know you're referring back to when the whole Peacekeeper fiasco that happened here a while back. Nobody was withholding anything, at least on my part or the part of others who were blasted for "not sharing" yet, funnily enough somebody who -already- owned it and finally did share it didn't get a negative word. Kinda strange how it works, a person buys a cd and is asked by a slew of people to share something when they don't want to or don't have the technical means gets ripped on yet somebody who does have the cd (or song) and only shares it because there's been a uproar about it doesn't. Hmmmmmm funny.

Nah, what's funny is the manner in which you conducted yourself when it became known to the board that his solo version of Peacekeeper was available. You came on here, said that your friend was not going to share, then proceeded to brag about getting a copy for yourself and that YOU were also not going to share it with anyone. You then further went on to say that you did so because you wanted to get negative reactions from people. Such a charmer, you sly devil.

It has nothing to do with not wanting to share. If someone doesn't want to share, they don't have to. But the people that don't want to share don't have to brag about what they have and then essentially tell people tough titty because they aren't going to hear it. It's tacky and unbecoming.

I sincerely hope that since you've had a change of heart about downloading unreleased material, you've trashed your copy, or MP3s, of the Gift of Screws album and any other unreleased material that you once had. Otherwise you're a hypocrite and your protesting otherwise proves as hollow as a chocolate Easter bunny.

People like you are the reason that I haven't posted here in God knows how long and I probably won't post here again for a while. Thanks for reminding me!

Matt

Oh, don't mention it, it's my pleasure. Why someone would stop posting over the very behavior that they blame on others is beyond me, but that's your prerogative.

[DownOnRodeo]

I sincerely hope that since you've had a change of heart about downloading unreleased material, you've trashed your copy, or MP3s, of the Gift of Screws album and any other unreleased material that you once had. Otherwise you're a hypocrite and your protesting otherwise proves as hollow as a chocolate Easter bunny.

:lol: :thumbsup:

[dissention]

That version of Thrown Down that I had on my short lived download site was purposefully edited on my own behalf so people like you could think you had some sort of special version of the song when it really wasn't. It was the studio version that I messed around with to give it a different sound.

There you go, proving yourself to be a real prince once again. Methinks you're blowing smoke up our collective asses because I'm referring to what has become known as the Wall of Sound version. You know, the one you bitched about people wanting to hear. How you managed to get the studio version months before it hit store shelves and magically drummed up new vocals from both Lindsey and Stevie for it, along with an entirely different tempo and music, is a mystery to me.

[amber]

That version of Thrown Down that I had on my short lived download site was purposefully edited on my own behalf so people like you could think you had some sort of special version of the song when it really wasn't.
Wait - I don't know much about this, but why would you do that? :confused: And if you didn't, why would you now say you did? Either way, I don't understand why someone would try to "trick" poeple into thinking they are getting something special...why bother? :confused: Seems kind of strange and rude. :shrug:

[dissention]

Wait - I don't know much about this, but why would you do that? :confused: And if you didn't, why would you now say you did? Either way, I don't understand why someone would try to "trick" poeple into thinking they are getting something special...why bother? :confused: Seems kind of strange and rude. :shrug:

Because he wants me to feel special, silly. :p

[amber]

Because he wants me to feel special, silly. :p
:lol: :lol:
um... :confused:
specially tricked? Does it make people feel special when you lie to them? Or, maybe, when you lie about lying to them? (in the case that he didn't make that version, and is now lying...)
very confusing.
Oh, and Diss, I hand crafted this post especially for you! :laugh:

[dissention]

:lol: :lol:
um... :confused:
specially tricked? Does it make people feel special when you lie to them? Or, maybe, when you lie about lying to them? (in the case that he didn't make that version, and is now lying...)
very confusing.

I have no clue what he's talking about, but I'm certain he's not talking about the Thrown Down I'm talking about. His special version can't be all that special if I've never heard it. Still, the idea that someone would waste their time in an effort to pass off a tweaked version of a song as some special alternate version is quite funny to me. At least that Diva Remixes dude passed them off as his own creation and not some special rarity, even if he wanted to sue the piss and **** out of anyone who mislabeled the bastard things.

Oh, and Diss, I hand crafted this post especially for you! :laugh:

I'm touched. :D

[SteveMacD]

The bottom line, for me, is that the GOS downloads were free and this e-bay item had a minimum price of $500. Both are unauthorized. But then again, there's a lot of unauthorized stuff on the net, and, it appears that even our heroes are collecting it themselves and have given their blessings to fans (i.e. Bob Welch). Here's the difference. The downloads were free. Nobody was making money off of them, hence Lindsey wasn't losing money. But, if somebody was SELLING unreleased versions of his work, then he would be losing royalties. It's pretty simple.

[amber]

I have no clue what he's talking about, but I'm certain he's not talking about the Thrown Down I'm talking about. His special version can't be all that special if I've never heard it. Still, the idea that someone would waste their time in an effort to pass off a tweaked version of a song as some special alternate version is quite funny to me. At least that Diva Remixes dude passed them off as his own creation and not some special rarity, even if he wanted to sue the piss and **** out of anyone who mislabeled the bastard things.
Yeah, I don't get the whole thing. It's hard for me to care that much.


I'm touched. :D
:laugh:
HA! tricked you! I wanted to make you feel special, but the post was really for everyone to read! HaHA!

[dissention]

The bottom line, for me, is that the GOS downloads were free and this e-bay item had a minimum price of $500. Both are unauthorized. But then again, there's a lot of unauthorized stuff on the net, and, it appears that even our heroes are collecting it themselves and have given their blessings to fans (i.e. Bob Welch). Here's the difference. The downloads were free. Nobody was making money off of them, hence Lindsey wasn't losing money. But, if somebody was SELLING unreleased versions of his work, then he would be losing royalties. It's pretty simple.

Exactly, and on this point I agree. However, some fan somewhere had to purchase the Gift of Screws tracks from someone in order to spread them around for free and to cut into the profit margin of the greedy ****er that tried selling them for extra steak. This mysterious disc that's being hocked at the moment is no different, and once it gets into the hands of fans, this schmuck won't be able to make two red cents because they'll be available for free to people who want to hear them.

[amber]

Here's what my law book says, not that I care:
"First Sale Doctrine - In copyright and patent law, the principle that once the owner of a copyrighted material or a patented item sells it, the buyer can treat the object as his or her own and freely sell, lease, or lend the work to another; in copyright law, the first sale doctrine only affects the right of distribution; see also exhaustion theory.
Exhaustion Theory - In trademark and patent law, the extinguishement or exhaustion of a trademark or patent owner's rights once a lawful first sale has been made of trademarked goods or a patented invention; in copyright law the extinguishment of a copyright owner's right to distribute a copyrighted work once a lawful first sale has been made.
So, really, the problem is that Lindsey hasn't gotten a chance to sell these first. But, it's a little late for that. :shrug: What's my point? That there is nothing on TV right now, really.

[David]

Exactly, and on this point I agree. However, some fan somewhere had to purchase the Gift of Screws tracks from someone in order to spread them around for free and to cut into the profit margin of the greedy ****er that tried selling them for extra steak.I guess that often happens, diss, but it didn't happen for the Screws album. Nothing was bought or sold until the MP3s were slapped onto a CD-R & then auctioned a few months later. No greedy ****ers were involved in the leak -- only people who were infringing on copyright. But certainly if you look at the stuff, say, with Maureen or the reels, the junk had to get purchased first.

[sodascouts]

The bottom line, for me, is that the GOS downloads were free and this e-bay item had a minimum price of $500. Both are unauthorized. But then again, there's a lot of unauthorized stuff on the net, and, it appears that even our heroes are collecting it themselves and have given their blessings to fans (i.e. Bob Welch). Here's the difference. The downloads were free. Nobody was making money off of them, hence Lindsey wasn't losing money. But, if somebody was SELLING unreleased versions of his work, then he would be losing royalties. It's pretty simple.

You make good points, but I'm not sure how he's losing royalties if the material is unreleased. Currently he makes no royalties off of it, correct? Of course, the purchase money is indeed going to the wrong person.

[amber]

You make good points, but I'm not sure how he's losing royalties if the material is unreleased. Currently he makes no royalties off of it, correct? Of course, the purchase money is indeed going to the wrong person.
In theory, I guess he's losing his first sale rights, and royalties because he hasn't released it, the theory being that since people already have it, they would not buy it if he did release it. Which is probably, for the most part, not true. :shrug:

[trackaghost]

I wish Lindsey would just release something new, that would help solve the problem of fans craving this stuff.
As a fan of nearly 20 years, during that time Lindsey has only released three albums (Tango, OOTC and SYW). I get more new materical from my favourite dead rock stars.

[wondergirl9847]

I get more new materical from my favourite dead rock stars.

We are gonna have to kill Lindsey so that all his material will be released. Hey, it worked for Tupac. :shrug:

:lol:

[trackaghost]

We are gonna have to kill Lindsey so that all his material will be released. Hey, it worked for Tupac. :shrug:

:lol:

:lol: We've gone from stealing Lindsey's stuff to killing him!!! :lol:

[amber]

:lol: We've gone from stealing Lindsey's stuff to killing him!!! :lol:
:lol: :lol:
It was bound to happen, it's a natural progression... :lol:

[DownOnRodeo]

No doubt Lux will have something negative to say about homocide! :D

[trackaghost]

Ridicule is a great way to get people in the mood for chatting, not at all degrading one's opinion.

By the way, Lindsey doesn't ever have to release anything. It's his work and he can sit on it forever, he can create all these demos, never let us hear them and never make a cent from them. it doesn't make it ok to take and distribute without his permission.

I just said I wished he would release more stuff. Apparently even wanting a new official Lindsey album is wrong now.

[dissention]

By the way, Lindsey doesn't ever have to release anything. It's his work and he can sit on it forever, he can create all these demos, never let us hear them and never make a cent from them. it doesn't make it ok to take and distribute without his permission.

I just hope you tossed your copy of Gift of Screws.

[Kelly]

She didn't. She "knows" Lindsey is devastated over the release of all the GoS tracks and has spent days trying to convince us that buying this cd is wrong as Down on Rodeo plays in the background while she types away. Hypocritical much?
It seems pretty obvious to me that if Lux contacted Lbs management, as she says she has, that they would express their dismay over unreleased tracks being for sale on ebay. Does anyone honestly think they would respond to her with a "Oh, who cares..we represent him and we are fine with the idea of him being ripped off"! What else are they going to say? Their ACTIONS speak volumes. They did nothing to stop this auction. We all know that if it was reported to ebay..it would have been removed. It takes VERY little to remove an auction and a phone call or email from East End would have taken care of the problem in 2.5 seconds. Apparently...Lindsey is not as upset about it as Lux tried to convince us he was or he would have done something about it for God's sake. :confused:

[seeknpeace]

I wasn't victimising you, I was adding my bit to the conversation this thread has become.

Do you have any idea where that turn happened? Any at all? Why it changed? Did it have to, no. Did it, yes. Why?

[glitter_fades]

Jesus, stop putting ****ing words in my mouth. I never said he was devastated by this. I only ever said that before distributing, those intending to distribute needed to consult his position in regards to the demos on the chance that he request they not be distributed. It was a good possibility that no one was interested in even hearing. He was upset about the previous demos being sold.

No matter what a hypocritical bitch you think I am, it doesn't take away Lindsey's rights as the artist. As much as it's flattering to imply that my words and morals play a significant part in Lindsey's life and are relevant to him, this is bull****. I could argue with you about my collection and yada yada but you'd win then and we'd have successfully been distracted from the point. If you keep me defending my collection for long enough, you think it's ok to distribute without his intent being consulted?

Leave me the **** out of this or don't cry foul when your morals are attacked. Stop talking like we're doing hypotheticals and address the issue. Once purchased, he should be consulted before distribution. It might sound ridiculous but it's his property.

My dear, you know we're usually in agreement about His Royal Hotness. I appreciate your concern for the man's wishes and feelings. Believe it or not, a lot of other people do too. Since we can only judge his wishes by his actions or inaction at this point, why not let it go for now? His management knows about it since you were kind enough to contact them. They probably know how the cd got out in the first place. They probably gave it out for review or publicity. By doing so they likely knew it would get passed around, copied, and distributed to grateful fans. I appreciate your concern for Lindsey and I second it. If I hear anything from Lindsey or one of his representatives that he is upset about this cd being heard by fans, then I won't have anything to do with it. OK? If I hear nothing about it, I'm going to assume it's not a big deal. If these tracks are obtained by fans and I get a copy, do you want one from me to go along with the lossless GOS I sent you ? I don't see the harm. Honestly, do you? :xoxo:

[amber]

So, will it be another unnecessary personalisation?
You smell funny!!!!
*how was that?*

[glitter_fades]

So you don't hate me? That in itself would be an unpopular position.

No. Since when do I care about being popular? :cool:

[DownOnRodeo]

it seems that mentioning this only brings out what a horrible kind of person I am and I fail to see the relevance of my personality in a situation regarding Lindsey's rights as an artist. Flattering that I seem to be a priority but all the same, irrelevant.

Is it possible that the way you approached the issue in that thread was less than devoid of accusation, hence begging retaliations? Just a thought.. :shrug:

[seeknpeace]

No. Since when do I care about being popular? :cool:


Hey Glitter, my good friend. Fortunately, I try to stay away from most of the upset that insues here since all of life came into perspective for me after my brush with cancer last year. It just gets my dander up and I get upset and it is not worth it. I am just struck by the amount of energy that is taken to create disharmony, especially considering that His Hotness really doesn't seem to want to do anything to stop it, doesn't give two ****s. I, for one, feel no need to protect a person who is highly intelligent, has more money that most of us will have in our lifetimes, and has access to the best legal representation as well as the best management available. You know that I got to know East End quite well during the past couple of years. I really like those ppl and compared to Stevie's ppl, they are light years better imo. They chose their battles, and most of their decisions are to make money for their clients and also themselves. They are not idiots, and neither is Lindsey. More positives come to Lindsey with this unreleased music than would come with the lack of participation to get this music released. As much as we all love him, we are not enough to sustain the belief that he can make money for the record companies with his efforts. He will make money releasing with Fleetwood Mac. So, with all that said, they also know that these songs keep him available to us, to a degree. And, as was pointed out before, regardless of whether we have this now or not, should he be able to find a record company that would put an album out for him, we will all buy it. Most of us buy two, one to listen to and one to shelve. So much energy has been devoted to champion Lindsey's rights as an artist, with no concern put forth by Lindsey himself. I feel no obligation to protect him, as much as I love him. It is not cool that his music is taken and given to the community. It is very uncool, but, the reality is that it exists and there we are. To constantly fight about it, and then to gooble it up once it is out there is such a paradox and makes it appear that the constant flogging is hollow. If I really had so much passion around this issue, I would box all my boots and such and send them to the artist, I would offer my services to the artist to bust all of us for buying/owning/sharing this music. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot insult, degrade and berate the community while polishing your collection. It makes the words that are gushing forth constantly hollow and nauseating. So, with all that said, you got to get on one side of the fence or the other.(not you, but, anyone who has so much conviction) End of story. No one can disagree that the fact that the music is out there is bad, but, you gotta make up your mind, is what I am hearing everyone say. And, the lossless GOS, wonderful stuff that, so you got to not accept it on principle and then your concerns and yelling all over God's kingdom has respect. The way it is now, there is none. I would allow that a thread should be started to just share how horrible this is over and over to the ppl who want to hear it over and over and then all the ones who agree and don't see the hypocrisy in posting it over and over while polishing your collection could all come together and just yell and holler and listen to their lossless cds while doing it and all the other stuff that they horde while screaming about how wrong it is to have it. :sorry:

[seeknpeace]

You mean trying to alert people to his rights and being ignored in order to discuss how much they were chipping in? I wasn't the first to go off in rage at anybody, only if you delete your attacking posts it would appear that way.

Was that you who left me a message in messenger? I don't even know, I can barely see straight. I thought it was someone else but now that I think about it, it doesn't really sound like her. Whoever it was, they said they were reading over here. I'll decide when I can talk and I don't need to be given **** for it if I can't. Incidently I was asleep and it does say that I'm away, what more can I do? But I apologise if my destructive tendencies are getting in the way of a chat.

no, it wasn't me. I hate hate hate IMing. Keep all sounds turned off..ha. It just drives me nuts.

I really do not know you Lux, and I sense your frustration. I know that you feel that no one hears what you are saying or that they are disregarding you. I don't think so. What you say is true and valid. But, it has to be one way or the other. In a perfect world, it would all work out differently, but, it is what it is so you gotta fix it, act on your conviction, follow your heart and beliefs if you wanna pull out the soap box. That is what I am reading as responses to your posts. And what I am feeling. It is not personal from me to you, but, it feels personal from you to everyone. I am a reallllllyyyy passionate and convicted person. So, if I decide that I have to take a stand, I do it balls to the wall. And, I don't think anyone will fault me for saying something is not right and then doing the opposite. I would encourage everyone to not buy from this guy 100%, and will not change how I feel about that and will not buy from him. I have contributed to help get a lot of the music we share out there and my purpose is to keep anyone from profiting from the music and to fricking hear it. I love it. And, if any of the artists I have on boots were to release that same music, hell yes. I will be first in line to buy it. The artists are choosing to not release it so there you go. I did not steal it. I did not creep into anyone's home and rip it off or take it from a studio. And, will do whatever I can to keep others from making money, and sometimes I gotta put some money out there to do it, so I do. That is my effort. Not to raise hell about it being bought but, scoff it up soon as I can. I think that is the dig. Not whether it is right for it to be out there. Hell not it is not right. That just sucks. So, you do what you think is right. I hear you loud and clear on what you think is right so the next logical thing would be for you to get rid of your collection and refuse to take any more. Cause, honey, someone has to pay for it.

[glitter_fades]

Hey Glitter, my good friend. Fortunately, I try to stay away from most of the upset that insues here since all of life came into perspective for me after my brush with cancer last year. It just gets my dander up and I get upset and it is not worth it. I am just struck by the amount of energy that is taken to create disharmony, especially considering that His Hotness really doesn't seem to want to do anything to stop it, doesn't give two ****s. I, for one, feel no need to protect a person who is highly intelligent, has more money that most of us will have in our lifetimes, and has access to the best legal representation as well as the best management available. You know that I got to know East End quite well during the past couple of years. I really like those ppl and compared to Stevie's ppl, they are light years better imo. They chose their battles, and most of their decisions are to make money for their clients and also themselves. They are not idiots, and neither is Lindsey. More positives come to Lindsey with this unreleased music than would come with the lack of participation to get this music released. As much as we all love him, we are not enough to sustain the belief that he can make money for the record companies with his efforts. He will make money releasing with Fleetwood Mac. So, with all that said, they also know that these songs keep him available to us, to a degree. And, as was pointed out before, regardless of whether we have this now or not, should he be able to find a record company that would put an album out for him, we will all buy it. Most of us buy two, one to listen to and one to shelve. So much energy has been devoted to champion Lindsey's rights as an artist, with no concern put forth by Lindsey himself. I feel no obligation to protect him, as much as I love him. It is not cool that his music is taken and given to the community. It is very uncool, but, the reality is that it exists and there we are. To constantly fight about it, and then to gooble it up once it is out there is such a paradox and makes it appear that the constant flogging is hollow. If I really had so much passion around this issue, I would box all my boots and such and send them to the artist, I would offer my services to the artist to bust all of us for buying/owning/sharing this music. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot insult, degrade and berate the community while polishing your collection. It makes the words that are gushing forth constantly hollow and nauseating. So, with all that said, you got to get on one side of the fence or the other.(not you, but, anyone who has so much conviction) End of story. No one can disagree that the fact that the music is out there is bad, but, you gotta make up your mind, is what I am hearing everyone say. And, the lossless GOS, wonderful stuff that, so you got to not accept it on principle and then your concerns and yelling all over God's kingdom has respect. The way it is now, there is none. I would allow that a thread should be started to just share how horrible this is over and over to the ppl who want to hear it over and over and then all the ones who agree and don't see the hypocrisy in posting it over and over while polishing your collection could all come together and just yell and holler and listen to their lossless cds while doing it and all the other stuff that they horde while screaming about how wrong it is to have it. :sorry:

Since you know me well I'm sure you realize I had tounge firmly planted in cheek while speaking to Lux. The GOS mention was a reminder of the goodwill shown to her by some of us thoughtless folks stomping on Lindsey's rights. Lux likes a little sarcasm now and then, so I hope you don't mind my dishing it out. You know how cranky I can be. :D
:xoxo: :wavey:

[glitter_fades]

Time to give it a rest, Lux.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Cause, honey, someone has to pay for it.

:xoxo: Thank you for a brilliant post, seeknpeace!

[seeknpeace]

Since you know me well I'm sure you realize I had tounge firmly planted in cheek while speaking to Lux. The GOS mention was a reminder of the goodwill shown to her by some of us thoughtless folks stomping on Lindsey's rights. Lux likes a little sarcasm now and then, so I hope you don't mind my dishing it out. You know how cranky I can be. :D
:xoxo: :wavey:

Yes, I do honey...you are my long time friend, I love you, love seeing you, talking to you, whatever. And, totally respect you to the max. You are not cranky...you are just honest and kind and generous to a fault. From day one. I am honored to know you. :xoxo:

[glitter_fades]

I won't take these if I know he's not happy with the distribution. I don't think they should be posted until his positive position is established. You said your intent is to allow the people to hear the music, but shouldn't there be a clause that involves seeking the artist's approval seeing that it is their work? All I've been saying is that his approval should be sought. If the buyers would agree to that before distribution then it's fine. As far as I've been informed, he was ok with the distribution of GOS but not with the sale of those demos. I wasn't aware of this when they were given to me (not by request, just as a compilation of everything FM) and I wouldn't even know where they are actually as I don't listen to them. I won't pass them on should I stumble across them and someone who wants to hear them. But again, this is all fine for my wellbeing but the issue is the artist's right to be informed about the desire to distribute. These will be bought by someone and I thought it a good chance they be someone here. That is why I persisted in trying to get attention to the issue that he should be informed.

Blah, blah, blah. Done now?

:rolleyes:

[seeknpeace]

I won't take these if I know he's not happy with the distribution. I don't think they should be posted until his positive position is established. You said your intent is to allow the people to hear the music, but shouldn't there be a clause that involves seeking the artist's approval seeing that it is their work? All I've been saying is that his approval should be sought. If the buyers would agree to that before distribution then it's fine. As far as I've been informed, he was ok with the distribution of GOS but not with the sale of those demos. I wasn't aware of this when they were given to me (not by request, just as a compilation of everything FM) and I wouldn't even know where they are actually as I don't listen to them. I won't pass them on should I stumble across them and someone who wants to hear them. But again, this is all fine for my wellbeing but the issue is the artist's right to be informed about the desire to distribute. These will be bought by someone and I thought it a good chance they be someone here. That is why I persisted in trying to get attention to the issue that he should be informed.

and to that end, you have hopefully accomplished what you wanted. You can lead a horse to water, but, not make it drink, as they say. Now you do what your heart says is right and let everyone else. They all heard you. And, I think that they all agree about what is right and wrong, so then we all chose our path. If you buy the work and do not share it, then, you really accomplish little to nothing if your intent is to stop him from making money. The only way to stop him is to distribute what he is trying to sell. I can not see Lindsey or Tony saying to anyone, sure, give it away. That would be ludicrous. Make no sense at all. But, by their lack of action, and their knowledge, they give their ok. They know that it is out there. They have been contacted by you and others, and they have taken their position, so now we do what we think is right. And, hopefully live peacefully together in our chaotic world.... so, Lux, nice to meet you...I am sure that there is a lot more to you than this. You are too intelligent to not know that this has run it's course and then it becomes like a tantrum and any and all positive influence you may have is lost. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information...very much. :wavey:

[trackaghost]

So you don't hate me? That in itself would be an unpopular position.

I don't think anyone here hates you Lux. And I'm sorry I became impatient with you.

[trackaghost]

I'm always saying things I regret, it seems to be my specialty unfortunately.

[DownOnRodeo]

I'm always saying things I regret, it seems to be my specialty unfortunately.
Well you have the ability to apologise, even when it's not entirely required. That's a gracious specialty to have. :angel:

[GODDESS6]

reading all of this has given me a headache :distress: :shocked: :distress:

once again shows me y so many times when it comes 2 things like this & other opinions, i 'shutty', i mean this thread bcame brutal w/ gauntlents being thrown, very, very sad :sorry: ~

[DownOnRodeo]

F*ck you Joe. We weren't talking to you and you probably don't even know what we were talking about. Obviously it's just some bonus where you get to slap me in the face for no reason other than you'd like to join in. Is it fun or something? You acknowledge Nancy's ability to feel, everyone else's ability to feel, I guess you don't apply to same to everyone. It feels ****ing horrible when you're blamed for being too depressed to talk and then treated like some inferior scrap worthy of being left behind for it.

I can't complement Nancy and Sharon without including you in the same breath? I don't think you're really looking for any support from me on this debate or you would have talked to me, right?

Too depressed to talk to a friend but plenty of energy to evangelise us all with your 'born again bootlegger' revelations. I'd be saying this if it was you or Carnevaca or 'Mrs White' from Burnish. It's nothing personal.

F*ck you Joe.

Well, it wasn't... ;)

[DownOnRodeo]

Sharon and I had equal differences and we can choose to reconcile without needing you to step in, trying to condescend me as you interfere with our choice. You go rushing to Nancy or whoever else takes a blow and then when it was recognised that something upset me, you want to undo the fact that I felt better about it by stating that I didn't even deserve it? What kind of civil behaviour is that? You're doing her gracious act a disservice. That is just hurting for the sake of it.

Don't you decide for me what I feel I can and cannot manage. It is personal. I am so much more angry than this sounds because that is one of the worst things an alleged friend can say. If you're struggling with 24 suicidal thoughts and taking refuge in any destructive activity possible then I'll let you decide if you're capable of a chat. If you don't want to, I won't bring it out blaming you and telling you you're some inferior mess to leave behind, particularly not after being asked to take it easy. I'm not interested in going to chat about these demos, it was just something to distract, I've got more important things going on and let me ****ing decide if I can talk or not. If this means anything to you at all then stop making me feel guilty about it and making me justify my inability to chat with you.

Too bad it had to be in a public forum I guess but thanks for finally opening up to me. My next (regrettably public) advice for a friend I care about is don't waste another second of your time in this bloody forum. I guess if I was not in a different hemisphere I would be doling out less advice and being more active. If you won't chat to me to let me know how you're doing and what you're doing about it, then I'm tempted to get in contact with P. or someone else. (Or, you can tell me to not try to help you out as a friend and '**** off', in which case I'll keep participating in this thread like anyone else and treat your posts like anyone else's.)

[DownOnRodeo]

Wheee - have never been bleeped on here before. :o

[seeknpeace]

Wait, one thing, who's 'P'? It's ok, you don't have to do anything but thankyou. I was saying vague things over here because that's exactly my point, I'm really not good with the talking thing. There's not a lot you can do in that situation.

Not sure what is up, going on here. But, there seems to be a way to vent, and some help needed. Depression is no joke and I hope that you can find someone local to help you some way. On these forums when you are working out things for yourself, and maybe you come off differently typewritten, I worry that you are going to become worse for the effort. If you need to pm, I am an old well medicated exhippie who has been there, done that. :wavey:

[DownOnRodeo]

It should be a public service announcement. 'The LB Forum is not the answer!' ;)

[wondergirl9847]

I need to go lie down. :(

[glitter_fades]

Lux, I apologize for the blah, blah. I didn't realize you're repeated posts in this thread were being driven by other issues besides the original topic. If you want to talk outside the forum, I will listen. As a courtesy to everyone let's chat elsewhere. That's all I meant when I said, give it a rest. People do care, they just aren't sure what to make of this whole thread now that things have gotten too personal. Sorry for adding fuel to the fire.

Now back to our original programming.

[SteveMacD]

God, what a bunch of drama queens.

[seeknpeace]

God, what a bunch of drama queens.


And kings...let's not discriminate please..haha. :wavey:

[David]

If you're struggling with 24 suicidal thoughts and taking refuge in any destructive activity possible then I'll let you decide if you're capable of a chat.The book to read is William Styron's "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness," published in 1985.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679736395.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[seeknpeace]

The book to read is William Styron's "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness," published in 1985.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679736395.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I read this on your recommendation, and it was a good book. It is well written and it takes thought to read it...not just for entertainment, you know? But, now, I like the other one, the "Lie Down In Darkness" by him, better, the distinction being that "Lie Down" is a novel, that he wrote about depression and the human drama associated with it, while "Memoirs" is a drier read, chronicling his own depression many years later. I think that "Lie Down" was his first novel?? Set in the 40's or 50's?

[glitter_fades]

And kings...

He who posts to the thread wears the crown. :laugh: Welcome aboard, sir. :wavey:

So, what's the latest on this LB cd everyone's been talking about? :lol:

[glitter_fades]

The book to read is William Styron's "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness," published in 1985.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679736395.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

This makes sense in the LB forum. :D

:wavey:

[dissention]

'born again bootlegger' revelations

LMAO!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[GeminiCusp82]

Wait - I don't know much about this, but why would you do that? :confused: And if you didn't, why would you now say you did? Either way, I don't understand why someone would try to "trick" poeple into thinking they are getting something special...why bother? :confused: Seems kind of strange and rude. :shrug:

I totally agree. Like My Heart when it was only a clip. Why not share the whole thing? And the Say You Will "early mixes". Why not just call them dvd-a mixes? Same with Dancing Alone and Staying True. It doesn't have to be something it's not in order for people to want to hear it. That is just my opinion.

[GeminiCusp82]

In theory, I guess he's losing his first sale rights, and royalties because he hasn't released it, the theory being that since people already have it, they would not buy it if he did release it. Which is probably, for the most part, not true. :shrug:

Personally, I would buy it just because it would be the "official release". I did the same with SYW and TISL when I already had the tracks before the cds came out. It is only fair to the band.

[GeminiCusp82]

I have no clue what he's talking about, but I'm certain he's not talking about the Thrown Down I'm talking about. His special version can't be all that special if I've never heard it. Still, the idea that someone would waste their time in an effort to pass off a tweaked version of a song as some special alternate version is quite funny to me. At least that Diva Remixes dude passed them off as his own creation and not some special rarity, even if he wanted to sue the piss and **** out of anyone who mislabeled the bastard things.


LoL I can't sue anyone without the copyright info, which in all actuality, isnt worth it because I only do it for fun. It just made me mad that they would use those ****ty remixes from my old days to circulate. I have much better ones that I guess weren't worthy enough to make the cut on the diva remixes album lol. O well. It is a ****ty remix compilation anyway imo. Whoever made the title "diva remixes" should be burned at the stake. I mean...Stevie is wonderful and all but she isn't exactly classified as a Diva...is she? When I think of Diva I think of Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin etc..Stevie is just the goddess of rock and roll ;)