Fla. agency gets teen's abortion blocked

[gldstwmn]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/04/27/fla_agency_gets_teens_abortion_blocked/

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The state's social services agency was granted a court order to block an abortion for a pregnant 13-year-old girl living in a state shelter, prompting an emergency appeal Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The ACLU in its appeal on the girl's behalf cited Florida statutes that protect a minor's decision to decide on an abortion.

"No (Department of Children & Families) regulation or state law can override a constitutional right as recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court," said Howard Simon, the organization's executive director for Florida.

"But putting aside the legalisms, forcing a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against her wishes not only is illegal and unconstitutional, it's cruel."

The girl learned she was pregnant two weeks ago and planned to have an abortion Tuesday. Her caseworker arranged for transportation and help. But the state Department of Children & Families asked a Palm Beach County juvenile judge Tuesday morning to block the procedure.

The state agency argued the 13 1/2-week pregnant girl -- described as L.G. in court documents -- is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision, according to the ACLU appeal.

A judge granted a temporary injunction and ordered a psychological evaluation.

There was no immediate indication when a decision on the appeal would be made.

In 2003, the Florida Supreme Court struck down a law requiring parents to be notified if their minor daughters seek an abortion. Florida's high court also cited privacy rights in 1989 when it tossed out a law that would have required parental consent for a minor's abortion.

But DCF spokeswoman Marilyn Munoz said state law prohibits the department from consenting to an abortion for a minor in any instance. "It's not our decision. We stand in different shoes. We're held to a higher accountability," Munoz said.

She declined to comment specifically on L.G.'s case; no details on the girl's parents or family history were available.

Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida lawmakers have tried for years to tighten state laws on abortion.

After the Florida Supreme Court struck down the 1999 parental notice law, lawmakers voted last year to change the constitution to make such a law possible.

Voters approved the constitutional amendment in November and lawmakers currently are pushing legislation to require physicians to notify at least one parent before performing an abortion on a girl under age 18. Another bill would tighten regulation of clinics that perform second-trimester abortions.

[irishgrl]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/04/27/fla_agency_gets_teens_abortion_blocked/

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The state's social services agency was granted a court order to block an abortion for a pregnant 13-year-old girl living in a state shelter, prompting an emergency appeal Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The ACLU in its appeal on the girl's behalf cited Florida statutes that protect a minor's decision to decide on an abortion.

"No (Department of Children & Families) regulation or state law can override a constitutional right as recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court," said Howard Simon, the organization's executive director for Florida.

"But putting aside the legalisms, forcing a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against her wishes not only is illegal and unconstitutional, it's cruel."

The girl learned she was pregnant two weeks ago and planned to have an abortion Tuesday. Her caseworker arranged for transportation and help. But the state Department of Children & Families asked a Palm Beach County juvenile judge Tuesday morning to block the procedure.

The state agency argued the 13 1/2-week pregnant girl -- described as L.G. in court documents -- is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision, according to the ACLU appeal.

A judge granted a temporary injunction and ordered a psychological evaluation.

There was no immediate indication when a decision on the appeal would be made.

In 2003, the Florida Supreme Court struck down a law requiring parents to be notified if their minor daughters seek an abortion. Florida's high court also cited privacy rights in 1989 when it tossed out a law that would have required parental consent for a minor's abortion.

But DCF spokeswoman Marilyn Munoz said state law prohibits the department from consenting to an abortion for a minor in any instance. "It's not our decision. We stand in different shoes. We're held to a higher accountability," Munoz said.

She declined to comment specifically on L.G.'s case; no details on the girl's parents or family history were available.

Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida lawmakers have tried for years to tighten state laws on abortion.

After the Florida Supreme Court struck down the 1999 parental notice law, lawmakers voted last year to change the constitution to make such a law possible.

Voters approved the constitutional amendment in November and lawmakers currently are pushing legislation to require physicians to notify at least one parent before performing an abortion on a girl under age 18. Another bill would tighten regulation of clinics that perform second-trimester abortions.

the gauntlet has been thrown down.

[Mari]

too young to have an abortion, but old enough to have a child? Sick.

[xxxmx]

from what i have seen, this is typical of floridian politics. this state is truly the drain of the nation. it's where all of the ****ty and hairball issues end up, in the drain. as mari said, they think it is so tragic that a 13YO has an abortion, but condemning that child to a life with that 13YO is clearly tragic as well.

[strandinthewind]

If they had educated her about sex, including abstience, and given her access to BC instead of leaving it essentially to the wealthy and/or lucky at that age - she/they would not be in the mess. But, we just CAN'T have that :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

too young to have an abortion, but old enough to have a child? Sick.My thoughts exactly.

[tynan88]

If they had educated her about sex, including abstience, and given her access to BC instead of leaving it essentially to the wealthy and/or lucky at that age - she/they would not be in the mess. But, we just CAN'T have that :rolleyes:

I find it most shocking that a 13 year old girl is getting pregnant, or maybe I am a tad sheltered :confused:

[strandinthewind]

I find it most shocking that a 13 year old girl is getting pregnant, or maybe I am a tad sheltered :confused:

I agree. But, it happens and kids, thanks to IMO tv and a lack of education, are FAR more experimental on average at a younger age than when I was a kid.

[tynan88]

I agree. But, it happens and kids, thanks to IMO tv and a lack of education, are FAR more experimental on average at a younger age than when I was a kid.

Oh I agree with that but I am actually talking the psychical side...no wonder I don't still do science but wouldn't that be extremely dangerous to the mother, I just find it hard to believe a girl being developed enough to give birth at 13.

[strandinthewind]

Oh I agree with that but I am actually talking the psychical side...no wonder I don't still do science but wouldn't that be extremely dangerous to the mother, I just find it hard to believe a girl being developed enough to give birth at 13.


According to this source http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/pdfs/menstrual.pdf

Menstruation. You will also start getting your monthly menstrual period. Most girls start getting their menstrual
periods about 2 and a half years after they first start developing breasts. Most girls have their first menstrual period
between the ages of 12 and 13, but some girls start as early as age 9 and others as late as 15 or 16.

So, she was within the norm for that.

[GypsySorcerer]

According to this source http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/pdfs/menstrual.pdf



So, she was within the norm for that.

:laugh: Jason, you will even google menstruation for us. :xoxo:


Seriously, though, girls are reaching puberty at very young ages. Throw in the media's influence, and we have girls as sex objects at 10. It's sick. :distress:

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: Jason, you will even google menstruation for us. :xoxo: . . . .

AND - I said fellatio and cunniligus in the foster care thread :] :] :] :]

:cool:

[GypsySorcerer]

AND - I said fellatio and cunniligus in the foster care thread :] :] :] :]

:cool:

You've done your good deeds for the day. :wavey: :D

[strandinthewind]

You've done your good deeds for the day. :wavey: :D


Well, you know me - always off on my cockleshell spreading the joy of an optimist while blurting fellatio and cunnilingus to the masses - perhaps I am advertising and should be in a beaded halter while doing so :eek:

Can ya tell it is one of those days - I am craving a margarita sooooooo bad right now to grease the time :laugh:

[tynan88]

But I couldn't imagine a 13 year old having developed the right hips for birth yet would they?

[strandinthewind]

But I couldn't imagine a 13 year old having developed the right hips for birth yet would they?

I do not know. I do know that throughout history, girls got married at 15 or less. So, maybe so.

[GypsySorcerer]

But I couldn't imagine a 13 year old having developed the right hips for birth yet would they?

In junior high, I went to school with some girls who had the bodies of a 20-year-old.

[DrummerDeanna]

from what i have seen, this is typical of floridian politics. this state is truly the drain of the nation. it's where all of the ****ty and hairball issues end up, in the drain. as mari said, they think it is so tragic that a 13YO has an abortion, but condemning that child to a life with that 13YO is clearly tragic as well.


:nod: :nod:

And she's obviously a kid with no means of supporting herself or a kid - sounds like she's barely being supported herself by the system...

This story is disgusting...

Make her have the baby - I'll give you a million bucks if anyone then steps up to fully take care of that baby....

They fight so hard to save these unborn children but could give a **** about them once their actually born....

[DrummerDeanna]

In junior high, I went to school with some girls who had the bodies of a 20-year-old.


:nod: I remember this one girl in 5th grade- everyone was in awe of her because she already had her period...and was therefore more developed than the rest of us fifth graders :eek:

I don't communicate at all with my ex-father's side of the family - but I recently heard that a 13 year old cousin on that side of the family had a baby...so sick...they're a total gangsta thug family...and this kid having a kid is just so sad :distress:

[strandinthewind]

. . .

They fight so hard to save these unborn children but could give a **** about them once their actually born....

and then treat the girl like she is a godless slut who should be shunned. I mean who wiped Christ's feet with her tears and what was her social status. yet, these buttheads are all "Christ"ians :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

Didn't it say she is living in a shelter? If that's the case and was for some time then we can assume she wasn't living under the care of nurturing guardians and whilst pregnancy isn't an automatic result of that, the correlation is there so it's hardly surprising. Then they want to deny her an abortion? Jesus Christ! They may aswell set aside a bed for the next one and prepare for its pregnancy in 12 or so years time.I agree and think it's unfair to blame it on the media. I think one's primary providers can very well be to blame in many cases.

[tynan88]

:nod: I remember this one girl in 5th grade- everyone was in awe of her because she already had her period...and was therefore more developed than the rest of us fifth graders :eek:

I don't communicate at all with my ex-father's side of the family - but I recently heard that a 13 year old cousin on that side of the family had a baby...so sick...they're a total gangsta thug family...and this kid having a kid is just so sad :distress:

Geez that really shocks me, not so much it is happening so young but that it physically can, unfortunately the media isn't so much sexualising young girls, but making them mre mature and grown up which leads to sexualisation and that is wrong.

[GateandGarden]

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know it could occur that early. I mean, I suppose I've heard of girls that age getting pregnant but it always stuck out as odd to me, in terms of how that's physically possible.

But I couldn't imagine a 13 year old having developed the right hips for birth yet would they?I'd say, all things considered, that I was physically capable of bearing children at 10.

[tynan88]

I'd say, all things considered, that I was physically capable of bearing children at 10.

Well you learn something new everyday :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

I agree and think it's unfair to blame it on the media. I think one's primary providers can very well be to blame in many cases.

I think the parents are partly to blame, but I think the media yields far more influence than parents, adults, church, etc. Look what these kids see on MTV, magazine covers, etc everyday. Teenagers like Lindsey Lohan sporting fake boobs and no clothes. Britney and the rest of the bubble-gum pop gang were only teenagers when they achieved stardom. It's getting younger and younger. In the 1950s, your sex symbols were in their 20s and 30s. They weren't 18-year-olds.

[strandinthewind]

I think the parents are partly to blame, but I think the media yields far more influence than parents, adults, church, etc. Look what these kids see on MTV, magazine covers, etc everyday. Teenagers like Lindsey Lohan sporting fake boobs and no clothes. Britney and the rest of the bubble-gum pop gang were only teenagers when they achieved stardom. It's getting younger and younger. In the 1950s, your sex symbols were in their 20s and 30s. They weren't 18-year-olds.

and they did not pander directly to the teen and younger market by dressing in high school uniforms a la Spears in the beginning :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

and they did not pander directly to the teen and younger market by dressing in high school uniforms a la Spears in the beginning :shrug:


Right - and I was reading in a magazine at the gym this article about guys fantasies...

A bunch were like....(and these are guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s)"I'm up against a locker and there are three school girls in little uniforms doing all sorts of things to me...." yada yada yada...

I was really disturbed by this...why is the "school girl" thing appealing!?! It really makes me cringe....that this is what men are finding sexual kicks in...ugh!

[DrummerDeanna]

and then treat the girl like she is a godless slut who should be shunned. I mean who wiped Christ's feet with her tears and what was her social status. yet, these buttheads are all "Christ"ians :rolleyes:


:nod:

Moby was on Talk of the Nation from NPR yesterday and I thought he was great...

Someone asked him what his thoughts on organized religion are...

He said something to the effect of...

I'm a sort of *he used some cool word I can't remember* Christian...

But then he went on to blast the "Christians" who are prevelant in today's world who are totally not Christian in their words, behaviours etc....he made some GREAT points and pretty much summed up the way I feel as well :D

[strandinthewind]

Right - and I was reading in a magazine at the gym this article about guys fantasies...

A bunch were like....(and these are guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s)"I'm up against a locker and there are three school girls in little uniforms doing all sorts of things to me...." yada yada yada...

I was really disturbed by this...why is the "school girl" thing appealing!?! It really makes me cringe....that this is what men are finding sexual kicks in...ugh!

I think it is because most guys never had sex in high school :shrug: Plus, most guys (generalization I know) like young girls and this like is set into motion in their heads via the media, which is all about youth :shrug:

Personally, I want Margaret Thatcher in riding toggs :eek:

Lord - I am in a mood today :laugh:

[tynan88]

Personally, I want Margaret Thatcher in riding toggs

Dammit I nearly woke up the house with that one!

Seriously though I think guys like younger girls just because that is the way it has always been...that is nothing new and this is no new fascination...however it wasn't always sexual. It has always been common for a guy to marr someone much younger than him, that is ancient but now the focus is on a sexual side as opposed to marriage which for such a long time was the standard.

[dissention]

Personally, I want Margaret Thatcher in riding toggs :eek:

Lord - I am in a mood today :laugh:

OMG, I think the neighbors can hear me laughing. :laugh:

As for the school girls business, I'm not into it; I think it's kind of perv-ish. I remember being absolutely horrified with all of those sites that had countdowns until the Olsen twins were legal. Talk about gross. I much prefer real women, not little girls.

[tynan88]

OMG, I think the neighbors can hear me laughing. :laugh:

As for the school girls business, I'm not into it; I think it's kind of perv-ish. I remember being absolutely horrified with all of those sites that had countdowns until the Olsen twins were legal. Talk about gross. I much prefer real women, not little girls.

I have a thing for school girls...but then again it would be wierd if I didn't :lol:

But I can understand it, guys wanting the youth...it isn't that hard to understand really I don't think, but I think those Legal countdowns are sick.

[estranged4life]

I think it is because most guys never had sex in high school :shrug:

I didnt...I was in my 20's for the first time :eek:

Plus, most guys (generalization I know) like young girls and this like is set into motion in their heads via the media, which is all about youth :shrug:

Gimme an older woman and I am happy (ie-Stevie, Rita, etc...Of course I have Deb :nod: ), I have never been attracted to ANY females younger than me.

One thing this punk has never bought into, Or EVER will, is jumping on what the media considers to be the hip/in thing..."Sorry, I have this lousy thing I do called THINKING, I like to formulate my own opinions & thoughts!"

[GypsySorcerer]

Sorry if this sounds insulting but holy moly! I had no idea. These things were never discussed around me, I wasn't even allowed to go to sex-ed at school. I only managed to go to the doctor about a certain lack of woman-hood at 19. Is that normal, your situation? And do you talk about it with your friends at that age? Obviously nobody mentioned any of this around me. So I guess 13 is quite possible then.

I can't remember anyone getting out of sex ed when I was in school. I remember talking about sex a lot (or what we thought we knew about it) in middle school.

[GypsySorcerer]

OMG, I think the neighbors can hear me laughing. :laugh:

As for the school girls business, I'm not into it; I think it's kind of perv-ish. I remember being absolutely horrified with all of those sites that had countdowns until the Olsen twins were legal. Talk about gross. I much prefer real women, not little girls.


Exactly. Those same guys who were panting after the Olsens watched them in diapers on Full House. Disgusting.

[gldstwmn]

If they had educated her about sex, including abstience, and given her access to BC instead of leaving it essentially to the wealthy and/or lucky at that age - she/they would not be in the mess. But, we just CAN'T have that :rolleyes:

Since she was in the custody of protective services, I think there is a good possibility she may be the victim of rape or incest, in which case abstinence education is worthless. :shrug:

[tynan88]

I feel sorry for these people.

[Janet]

She did not make that baby with some 13 year old boy. Some older creep knocked her up.

I will admit here, much to all of your dismay, I HATE abortion. I hate it.

But in this case, that girl is not old enough to have a child. She cannot take care of herself obviously.

It's really sad. Florida is wacked.

[Sugar]

I will admit here, much to all of your dismay, I HATE abortion. I hate it.



I don't think anyone LIKES abortion... :wavey:

And I wish there was more conversation about making every pregnancy a wanted one via decreasing violence against women, teaching about birth control and making it available, protecting young girls better, etc.

This case is so sad, and I keep thinking about the TIME factor in this...she's not getting any less pregnant while the courts figure out what to do with her... :distress:

[dissention]

I don't think anyone LIKES abortion... :wavey:

And I wish there was more conversation about making every pregnancy a wanted one via decreasing violence against women, teaching about birth control and making it available, protecting young girls better, etc.

This case is so sad, and I keep thinking about the TIME factor in this...she's not getting any less pregnant while the courts figure out what to do with her... :distress:

I have to admit that until recently, I was pretty ignorant in regards to Roe v. Wade. I mean, I knew all about it, I just wasn't really aware of the circumstances surrounding it and how it came about. Thanks to HBO for airing the movie with Holly Hunter and Amy Madigan a few weeks ago. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Don't they atleast have an exemption from the rules for rape cases? Isn't that a standard?

There need be no exemption because there are no limits as to the reason. A woman does not have to state why she chooses to end her pregnancy.
What they're doing is unconstitional but remember these are the very same group of people who wanted the Supreme Court to "save" Terri Schiavo. My guess is the Florida Supremes will rule against the state if it goes that far. She has until the sixth month until it gets really dangerous for her.
Notice how the article makes no mention of how she got pregnant, almost as though it was all her fault. :distress:

[xxxmx]

It's really sad. Florida is wacked.
i could not agree more.

oh, and things will never change. ever. judging by the sheer number of political bumper stickers in the grocery parking lot - everyone is just thrilled with the state of the state. then again, florida has gone so far as to offer a (hideous yellow) "Choose Life" license plate. i can assure you, as i asked at the DMV when i was registering my car down here, there is no "Choose Choice" plate. this story is just the tip of the **** iceberg that melts all over the southeast.

[skcin]

Update:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/03/abortion.dispute.ap/index.html

[xxxmx]

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/03/abortion.dispute.ap/index.html
i am shocked... and not in a bad way. there is at least a modicum of sanity left in this neck of the woods...

[GateandGarden]

Sorry if this sounds insulting but holy moly! I had no idea. These things were never discussed around me, I wasn't even allowed to go to sex-ed at school. I only managed to go to the doctor about a certain lack of woman-hood at 19. Is that normal, your situation? And do you talk about it with your friends at that age? Obviously nobody mentioned any of this around me. So I guess 13 is quite possible then.Sorry that I didn't see this days ago. I hadn't looked at this thread since I posted that. Yeah, I was an early-bloomer (is that the correct term?), but I've certainly heard of other people going through puberty at ten. When I was in the fifth grade, I got in trouble for sticking my breasts out. My P.E. teacher said, "Does your mom know you do that?!?" I was just excited because I was the only person at school who had them! :laugh: Anyway, I was forced into many sex-ed seminars and such and about a million of those puberty/menstruation lectures for girls in elementary/middle school. Those were painful. One of them was actually at a hospital. Well, the point of that is that they told is it was totally possible for a girl to "start" at the age of nine, though it was uncommon. When I was in the fifth grade, all of the girls and boys in my class were separated for an hour to go to one of these lectures in different rooms. No telling what they told the guys. :laugh: But after that ordeal, all the girls were talking about menstruation and sex, which most of us found bizarre, intriguing, and quite foreign. When I "started" that year, some of the girls wanted to know "what it's like" to have your period and I told them that frankly, it's gross. :laugh: And then I had to take more sex ed in tenth grade. I'm finally free of it now that I'm in college. :laugh:

More than everyone wanted to know? :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

She did not make that baby with some 13 year old boy. Some older creep knocked her up.

I will admit here, much to all of your dismay, I HATE abortion. I hate it.

But in this case, that girl is not old enough to have a child. She cannot take care of herself obviously.

It's really sad. Florida is wacked.I'm not dismayed to read that. I hate abortion, too. I think it's an awful idea. Yes, I'm pro-choice, but abortion is one of many things that I support being legal in some cases but personally feel is awful. So you're not alone.