Holy sheet...I want this!!!

[wondergirl9847]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=307&item=4723583396&rd=1

:shocked: I wanna hear the first two desperately!!!

[GardenStateGirlie]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=307&item=4723583396&rd=1

:shocked: I wanna hear the first two desperately!!!

I can't help but wonder if he's leaking these or if someone else is. I'm very curious as to what exactly Is This Right is and of course, ever since watching the SYW Doc, i've been in love with I Am Waiting. Hopefully whoever ends up with it, shares but who knows?

[WelshWitchPMD]

I agree that it would be interesting to hear these songs. I was kind of hoping that they would be titles that we have never heard before, however.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I might bid towards the end. :o

[EnchantedSLN]

I was kind of hoping that they would be titles that we have never heard before, however.

"Is This Right" appears to be new.

[WelshWitchPMD]

"Is This Right" appears to be new.


Yeah, I was hoping for more, however. It's OK cause I am never happy. :laugh:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I might bid towards the end. :o

If you don't, I will ;) I just want someone to end up with it that will be willing to share with all of us

[GardenStateGirlie]

Yeah, I was hoping for more, however. It's OK cause I am never happy. :laugh:

If this is out there, i'd imagine there are more we don't know about or that will eventually appear.

[WelshWitchPMD]

If you don't, I will ;) I just want someone to end up with it that will be willing to share with all of us


I was going to bid on it, too. I wonder how much it will end up at? I will be short of funds by that time after Vegas. :distress:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I was going to bid on it, too. I wonder how much it will end up at? I will be short of funds by that time after Vegas. :distress:

I think we all will :laugh: Hopefully it ends up with someone we know.

[estranged4life]

planned, But I might see if I can win this auction...If so I'm sure it will be traded about :nod:

[GardenStateGirlie]

New Lindsey music is what the whole fandom is about. However why would this just pop out of nowhere? Who would be leaking these and is he just being screwed over again? I don't know how you'd find out, you probably can't, but not matter how great new material of his is, I wouldn't want to be the one who purchased it if it were the case.

Seeing as two are already released and one is a cover of a song we've already heard on the documentary, the only song that begs that question is the Is This Right (which may be the working title of a song we already know). As far as how it was put on e-bay, we'll never know. We could ask the seller but i'm sure he'd have some generic response as to where it came from. Perhaps Lindsey himself gave it to someone to listen to and they in turn are selling the copy they have or gave it to someone else who is selling it? Not sure but I am always curious as to where these things come from.

[Dark Angel]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=307&item=4723583396&rd=1[/url]


Cool!! I just bookmarked it. If I manage to win it, I'll be more than willing to share. :)

[Hawkeye]

I really hope a ledgie or someone who likes to share wins this.

[shackin'up]

the only song that begs that question is the Is This Right (which may be the working title of a song we already know).

Let's pretend it's a working title of a song we already know....which one could it be?
Given thing? I can imagine he changed the lyrics of this song (although I hope not cause I LOVE it!), that was def. not finished yet...

[Kelly]

With everyone who has mentioned bidding on this thread..you guys should communicate. If all of you bid you will just jack up the price. It would be better for one or two Ledgies to go for it and if people want to chip in or something, do that. If we all are competing each other for this thing, we will end up paying more and most of us would share it if we won, correct?
As far as how these are getting out..this seems to be the pattern. All the GoS songs were leaked through ebay..the TISL songs as well. My Heart was just leaked on a cd sold on ebay. I predict Is This Right will be a new song...it is lumped with two older songs and a cover...that totally fits with the pattern of alot of the leaked songs. I do not know why there would be a problem with who wins the auction..the seller is the one who is ultimately the one in the wrong. Unless it is Lindsey or his management, who have some motivation for doing it. I always felt that the WoS TD was leaked intentionally but that is just a feeling.

[WelshWitchPMD]

With everyone who has mentioned bidding on this thread..you guys should communicate. If all of you bid you will just jack up the price. It would be better for one or two Ledgies to go for it and if people want to chip in or something, do that. If we all are competing each other for this thing, we will end up paying more and most of us would share it if we won, correct?
As far as how these are getting out..this seems to be the pattern. All the GoS songs were leaked through ebay..the TISL songs as well. My Heart was just leaked on a cd sold on ebay. I predict Is This Right will be a new song...it is lumped with two older songs and a cover...that totally fits with the pattern of alot of the leaked songs. I do not know why there would be a problem with who wins the auction..the seller is the one who is ultimately the one in the wrong. Unless it is Lindsey or his management, who have some motivation for doing it. I always felt that the WoS TD was leaked intentionally but that is just a feeling.


It's already up to $36.00 right now! :eek:

[hayley]

I was really excited for a minute, thinking you were talking about the <a href="http://www.snopes.com/religion/sheet.htm">urban legend</a>. Instead, it's just more Lindsey and his boring illegally leaked demos.

[Dark Angel]

With everyone who has mentioned bidding on this thread..you guys should communicate. If all of you bid you will just jack up the price. It would be better for one or two Ledgies to go for it and if people want to chip in or something, do that. If we all are competing each other for this thing, we will end up paying more and most of us would share it if we won, correct?


I was thinking about that, but have no idea who would want to go in on it. :shrug:

[Dreammms]

I was thinking about that, but have no idea who would want to go in on it. :shrug:

i'd be willing to chip in

[sodascouts]

Anybody who wants to chip in, PM me.

[estranged4life]

I'll volunteer to make multiple copies since I have the equipment to do so...

[sodascouts]

I am "dustyfury" and currently have the high bid. I will share if I win. PLEASE no Ledgie bid against me! Again, if you want to help pay for this, PM me. Right now the price is up to $122.00.

[golddustwoman77]

I would love to have this CD! :D I just can't believe how high the bidding has gotten. It is up to almost $150.00! :eek: Wow! I guess I'll have to wait and try and trade for it.

[Kelly]

Nancy...if you are not currently the high bidder, wait until the end of the auction and come in with your top bid. No need to keep upping it to stay the highest bidder all week long. As long as you are the highest bidder in the end! I am sure you know that already but I wanted to mention it just in case some Ledgie or lurker is bidding against you. So many people continually bid on ebay items days before the end and seem to think it actually means something that they stay top bidder. I enjoy trying to swipe an auction after some yutz has placed fifty five bids on something for days on end. Please, PM Nancy if you are interested in helping win the auction!

[GODDESS6]

I am "dustyfury" and currently have the high bid. I will share if I win. PLEASE no Ledgie bid against me! Again, if you want to help pay for this, PM me. Right now the price is up to $122.00.
glad 2 know your ebay name, i am a reg on ebay & wouldn't want 2 bid against u~

[wondergirl9847]

I PMed ya, Nancy. Sheesh, this is getting way too expensive. :distress: That guy/girl must really want this...they outbid Nancy. :(

[skcin]

I PMed ya, Nancy. Sheesh, this is getting way too expensive. :distress: That guy/girl must really want this...they outbid Nancy. :(

I know! Someone tell Carol Ann to cut it out! ;)

[wondergirl9847]

Damn you, Carol Ann...go towards the light!!!

[BTFLCHLD]

Damn you, Carol Ann...go towards the light!!! :lol: youresofunny

[GardenStateGirlie]

I know! Someone tell Carol Ann to cut it out! ;)

High in her life...obsessive was her love... :laugh:

[stefan]

Obviously I've become invisible.
I think that making money with his work is wrong. The guy who offered "Gift of screams" on ebay with the crazy song titles and the hysterical LB grafic annoyed me a lot. But to share the GOS songs for free that were in circulation on audiogalaxy was never a problem for me. Yes, it may be selfish but:
LB has taken 11 years to then not release his new CD. Exactly the same happens right now. He speaks about a solo album and a soundstage DVD that sure as hell both will never see the light of the day. A lot of his GOS songs didn't make it on the SYW album because Stevie was involved. I never would have heard DOR for example. So- would I break in his house and steal his masters? No. Would I try to listen to the songs once they are available? Yes. He should go and release his music- I`ll certainly buy it. If he doesn`t- well that`s the way to go for me.
Hopefully the songs from this ebay CD appear soon on the net.

[trackaghost]

This of course was all under the assumption that it isn't approved by him. My confusion is in regards to why nobody else has even addressed that in any small way. Did it not cross anybody's mind or are we too wrapped up in what we can take from him without even a moment's thought for him as person? I don't expect your desire for the music to diminish nor do I expect to change your minds, but I was surprised to not see even a slight consideration for a the matter.


While I agree none of us has a right to this music if Lindsey hasn't approved its release, if Nancy wins this auction it will be distributed among the FM community for free and these guys trying to make money out of Lindsey's work will have less chance of selling their illegal wares.
It probably doesn't justify it, but I do know, that although I have Gift Of Screws through downloading it illegally, I would buy that sucker in a second if Lindsey were ever to officially release it and I think most people here would too.

Nancy,
stop bidding right now!!! You're jacking up the price! It would be better to wait until the end of the auction.

[trackaghost]

This may be true that it is better to be in her hands than in the hands of some money-maker, but it's still only the lesser of two evils. Although the word 'evil' might be a slight exaggeration, it's obviously not the end of the world. However don't assume you're being ethical by distributing it for free, the only ethical thing to do would be to not defy Lindsey's wishes and return it to him or simply sit on it without distributing. Of course the winning bidder could approach his management and find out whether he approves of the release and distribute it or not depending on the outcome. To me that would be the ethical thing to do.

You're right of course but, like you said it's the lesser of two evils.

[trackaghost]

It is the lesser of two evils but as I mentioned, there is a third option. The person who wins the bid has the power to change it into the ethical solution by returning it or facilitating the other methods I mentioned in the previous post.

Is that what you'd do?
You're a better person than me then, especially if I had paid out $150 for it.
I think the best option would have been for no one to bid on it at all, then the seller can't make a profit. But that isn't going to happen.

I want to hear the tracks too much to be honest. If that makes me a bad person that so be it. I am bad. But I still think I'm better than those making a profit from his music. I know if it were my music being sold on eBay, I wouldn't blame the person buying it so much as the person selling it.

That said. If this is a legitimate promo, then those get sold all the time. They're not supposed to be sold, but most record companies know it happens and turn a blind eye to it. I used to work at a magazine where the reviews editor would have bags of promos of albums he was sent every week and he just sold them for cash to the local record shop. I don't actually agree with that, but it happens. I get sent free stuff too but I tend to give it to my friends, I think it's wrong to sell it, but that's just me.

[GardenStateGirlie]

IMO, Lindsey doesn't have a hope nor a prayer when it comes to WB/Reprise releasing him as a solo artist. As much as we love him and think that his work is nothing short of amazing, he's not viable. In the days of the Britney Spears and Ushers, he's not a hot commodity in the eyes of the label. I tend to think we will never see the release of any more from him unless it's with Fleetwood Mac in 2006 OR he decides to go ahead and create his own label as an outlet for himself (and perhaps then for other artists too).

After giving it much thought and in light of the girls answers recently (Sharon and Lori, which I take with much consideration and whom I hold a great deal of respect for), when it comes to Lindsey, I don't feel terrible about a group of fans willingly buying a demo tape containing 4 songs...two of which have not been formerly released. With GOS and even with this small batch of songs, I do not feel it's done him any disservice. In fact, it's done the opposite as far as i'm concerned. It's only HIS FANS that are going to want to buy his album to begin with because no one is willing to take a chance on him and market what he's offering. Thusly, when it comes time for his album to be released (if it's ever released) the fans are STILL going to buy it. We'll want it for our collections...for the insert...for the lyrics. We're harcore dorks, guys and the last thing we would EVER want to do to Lindsey would be to dick him out of money that is deservingly his. But, we won't do that...because we'll STILL buy the album anyway.

Take Fleetwood Mac and Stevie for example. How many friggin' greatest hits compilations can they possibly release with the same songs over and over again? And you know what? We buy them all...because we adore the work they do and we love the music (and again, that whole collection obsession).

So, in conclusion of this very long-winded post, I don't think us buying this demo tape will in any way, shape, or form hurt him in any way. It's his demos that have kept us all interested for years and have held us in anticipation for an album we may never receive. JMO.

[GardenStateGirlie]

You guys are missing the point. I agree that it's great to hear the demos but there's one clause and that involves the release being with his permission. This is not about how well he'd sell in the market. It's not about us doing him a favour by getting his music out to his fans (unless he approves of the sale in which case it may be). It's not about your individual morals relating to the fact that it won't prevent you from purchasing anything he might subsequently release. That's got nothing to do with it. The point that makes all of that irrelevant is that it's his property and if he does not approve of it being distributed then tough titties folks, that's his right to not have it distributed. I don't know how many ways I can say this but your desires for it and justifications relating to your fandom etc do not matter in this situation of stealing and unauthorised distribution (assuming that's what it is).

The other posters' complete lack of consideration for his position in this did make bidding on this (with a few others) tempting. However I'm in no financial position to be doing so when his management, upon failing to legally stop the sale, could simply just purchase it back. If I did purchase it then there's no way I'd distribute it without seeking approval and if it weren't granted I'd return it, rid of it or whatever was necessary. That's not saintly, it's just showing an ounce of consideration for his work. As I said before, if it's not a concern of his then everything I've said can be deemed irrelevant but this is an unauthorised sale so as yet we can only assume it is against his wishes. My intention is not to deny the fans his music (which they are not owed simply because he choses to take his time), my intention was to atleast address the possibility that to purchase and spread is to aid in stealing and going against his will (again, if that's what it is).

Lux, you know I adore the quicksand you walk on but I don't think we're missing the point at all. We're taking into consideration what you say and I, for one, don't agree. It's about having a differience of opinion. If that makes the large number of us willing to front money to purchase this **** fans, so be it. Then we're **** fans. We've spent a ton in the past few years on merchandise, concert tickets, etc. He has gotten nothing but love and adoration from us and will continue to have such. The fact remains is we don't know how it got out there. He could have easily WANTED it there. We don't know and we won't know. To my knowledge, through the years he has tried but is unable to get this material released because he isn't marketable yet he's not yet bold enough to take a risk and put it out on his own. Do you think he does all this work to leave on tape and have no one hear it ever? He's been trying to for YEARS and where did his seven years worth of work on GOS go? Fleetwood Mac. Where will everything else go? Fleetwood Mac, and it seems as though the next album will be a "from the ground up" deal so he'll have new songs, I bet. If I may ask, do you listen to the GOS demos? Will you listen to these when they're distributed, without cost, to the fans in this community? That makes you just as "guilty" as the rest of us i'm afraid.

[David]

All the GoS songs were leaked through ebay.No, a batch of those songs (Twist of Fate, Red Rover, Gift of Screws, Say Goodbye, etc.) were posted as free MP3 downloads on a popular Stevie site in 2001, & they were put up there because the solo album had been aborted & there were no plans at that time to make an FM album. It was only later that some bootleggers took those MP3s & auctioned CDs of them with goofy titles. It's not a major distinction, but it is a distinction -- they were free initially.

Still, Lux is right that it's completely unauthorized (like the Shangri-La unreleased songs) & it's an infringement of copyright. There's no getting around it. All bands contend with this copyright infringement in dozens of forms. It will ever stop. Look what Dylan did: released a legitimate collection of "basement" tapes that were already in the hands of Dylan fans.

If Stevie wants to put the kabosh on leaks of her unreleased material (or even leaks of her soon-to-be-released material), she would need to:
1. Stay out of recording studios
2. Avoid letting engineers, producers, friends, family & "staff" have or even hear her tapes-in-progress
3. Avoid sharing any of her work-in-progress with anyone at any record company
4. Erase all rough takes on tape
5. Avoid using any other musicians (or somehow make sure they can't get any tapes from the sessions ) -- but even then how could she prevent a session player from bringing in his own Sony recording Walkman & taping a session?

As you can tell, that's totally impractical (or impracticable).

But what the fans do is copyright infringement, no doubt about it.

[Kelly]

[QUOTE=David]No, a batch of those songs (Twist of Fate, Red Rover, Gift of Screws, Say Goodbye, etc.) were posted as free MP3 downloads on a popular Stevie site in 2001, & they were put up there because the solo album had been aborted & there were no plans at that time to make an FM album. It was only later that some bootleggers took those MP3s & auctioned CDs of them with goofy titles. It's not a major distinction, but it is a distinction -- they were free initially.

I thought there was an auction for cassettes on ebay several years ago that was stopped for awhile and eventually the guy got the auction through? Is that wrong? I always assumed, maybe incorrectly, that the person who purchased the cassettes, transferred them and put them up for free download. similar to what Nancy will do if she wins.
Still, Lux is right that it's completely unauthorized (like the Shangri-La unreleased songs) & it's an infringement of copyright. There's no getting around it. All bands contend with this copyright infringement in dozens of forms. It will ever stop. Look what Dylan did: released a legitimate collection of "basement" tapes that were already in the hands of Dylan fans.

[AliP]

I thought there was an auction for cassettes on ebay several years ago that was stopped for awhile and eventually the guy got the auction through? Is that wrong?

I know that the person who first distributed the cassette which later became known as the Village Recorder demos was a friend of Cheri Caspari. Once she realized how huge the demand was for these demos, she began to sell them on ebay. I don't know if she was the only one who sold them, but I do know that she was one of them.

[trackaghost]

Unless the buyer takes steps to confirm that the distribution is approved by him then, by your own proclamation, you're "**** fans". If it's distributed without this knowledge, no amount of money given to him via concert tickets, albums purchases etc justifies stealing from him. If the buyer isn't willing to seek his approval then I think we need to start distinguishing between fans who see him as a machine for their listening pleasure and those who regard him as a person. I went into debt in order to see him in concert, he's certainly got value out of me as a fan but this is entirely different. If he wants you to hear it, he'll make that possible, if he doesn't then no matter how much we've given to him financially, no matter how good we decide it will be for his career, it still doesn't give us the right to steal. Despite how much I loved the demos we were exposed to last time, that should have never been possible. He was screwed over and with that in mind, it would have been better had we never been exposed to them. If this is at all similar then I don't blame the buyer quite the same as the seller, but the buyer (assuming they distribute) must take some responsibility in screwing over the person they otherwise claim they idolise and care about.

Are you saying that you don't listen to the GOS demos? Beause I thought you did. Did you seek out Lindsey's permission to listen to them?
I'm not saying any of this is right and my suggestion would be if you feel so strongly against it maybe you should contact Lindsey's management to let them know this auction is happening. If they want to do something about it, then they can.

[David]

I thought there was an auction for cassettes on ebay several years ago that was stopped for awhile and eventually the guy got the auction through? Is that wrong? I always assumed, maybe incorrectly, that the person who purchased the cassettes, transferred them and put them up for free download. similar to what Nancy will do if she wins.It's like with Stevie Nicks: different batches of songs come from different sources, in different ways. But the studio material that was gonne be his album at that point was not sold -- it was put up for everyone to grab online. Plus, a few months ago, Brian or Neil or somebody got the lossless version torrented. Unfortunately, I think those torrent sites shut down a few weeks later.

Most of us are probably somewhat split on this whole issue, which is really a couple of issues all in one: Should you infringe on an artist's copyright? Should you buy unreleased material that you yourself get for free? What if you pay some source for it ... is it ethical to recoup your outlay?

I hope everyone would at least agree that you're a big jerk & of no use to anyone if you just download stuff that's free online (file-sharing or Web sites) & then turn around & start burning products out of it just to make some fast money on eBay. That's the absolute lowest of the barrel, & it includes scum who swipe photos off Web sites & then sell cheaply copied photo-paper duplications as "real" photos.

[trackaghost]

His management has been contacted. However unless the sale actually does stop, in which case we know his intent, we can't know whether he isn't concerned or has no power to stop the sale.

Yes, obviously I've listened to he demos, hence my opinion of them. The point was that I should never have been in any position to ever do so, none of us should have. They should not have been sold and distributed because it was directly against his wishes. Once it's up on the net then the game's up, which is why it should be stopped before then if it is indeed not what he wishes. If this is along those lines and it's possible to prevent it from occuring again, then we should aim more towards that than having him screwed over again, should we not?

Lindsey's management would have no problem stopping the sale if they contacted eBay. I can't see a reason why they couldn't halt it.

I'm well aware that you're saying that fans should take responsibility, however how do you know it was directly against his wishes? Is there an interview in which he says this?
I still don't feel guilty about it, I have to admit. If Lindsey wanted to do something about it he could. Look at Prince and Jeff Buckley's estate. You'll rarely find anything of Prince's on the net, because his management keeps a close eye on such things. Jeff Buckley's estate (run by his mother) threatens to sue anyone posting his unreleased stuff and I dare to you find something on any of his fan sites. It's possible to monitor this stuff and Buckley isn't worth a faction of what Lindsey is worth.

[David]

His management has been contacted. However unless the sale actually does stop, in which case we know his intent, we can't know whether he isn't concerned or has no power to stop the sale.

Yes, obviously I've listened to he demos, hence my opinion of them. The point was that I should never have been in any position to ever do so, none of us should have. They should not have been sold and distributed because it was directly against his wishes. Once it's up on the net then the game's up, which is why it should be stopped before then if it is indeed not what he wishes. If this is along those lines and it's possible to prevent it from occuring again, then we should aim more towards that than having him screwed over again, should we not?Lux, some people probably feel that they're being lectured to. I think it's fine to have one's own convictions on these issues -- we all do, probably -- but those convictions are going to vary, maybe widely in some cases. I think it's a good idea for this message board to remain a safe place for people to feel they can post about bootlegs & demos & similar stuff.

[face of glass]

Plus, a few months ago, Brian or Neil or somebody got the lossless version torrented. Unfortunately, I think those torrent sites shut down a few weeks later.
Actually it's still up and running at a new domain:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=26917

[trackaghost]

Most of us are probably somewhat split on this whole issue, which is really a couple of issues all in one: Should you infringe on an artist's copyright? Should you buy unreleased material that you yourself get for free? What if you pay some source for it ... is it ethical to recoup your outlay?

I hope everyone would at least agree that you're a big jerk & of no use to anyone if you just download stuff that's free online (file-sharing or Web sites) & then turn around & start burning products out of it just to make some fast money on eBay. That's the absolute lowest of the barrel, & it includes scum who swipe photos off Web sites & then sell cheaply copied photo-paper duplications as "real" photos.

With the sheer volume of Mac bootlegs out there, they must be aware it goes on and turn a blind eye to it. Of course it's not right, it's their property but in the scheme of things I don't think it's hurting Lindsey, it just helps keep his fanbase more dedicated. Maybe that's a screwed up way to look at it, I don't know.

But yeah, fans who get stuff from the net just to sell it are the lowest of the low. It doesn't just happen in Mac world either, it happens with lots of artists.
Even with the demo thing. I know The Jayhawks (a band I love) are well aware of the fact their demos are bootlegs and shared on the internet and they just accept it. Apparently they even call certain collections of their songs by the titles fans have given them. Not every band or artist is against this stuff. Some, like Wilco for instance, even embrace it.

[face of glass]

I'm well aware that you're saying that fans should take responsibility, however how do you know it was directly against his wishes? Is there an interview in which he says this?
I once chatted about this with the second owner of Lindsey's official website, they had been talking to Lindsey's management about the GOS leak and had heard from those people that it had not been Lindsey's intention for GOS to be leaked. That's all I know about this though.

[trackaghost]

Lux, some people probably feel that they're being lectured to. I think it's fine to have one's own convictions on these issues -- we all do, probably -- but those convictions are going to vary, maybe widely in some cases. I think it's a good idea for this message board to remain a safe place for people to feel they can post about bootlegs & demos & similar stuff.


I don't feel lectured to and I think it's Lux's right to bring it up.
I think it's a good thing to discuss these things really.

[trackaghost]

I once chatted about this with the second owner of Lindsey's official website, they had been talking to Lindsey's management about the GOS leak and had heard from those people that it had not been Lindsey's intention for GOS to be leaked. That's all I know about this though.

Thanks for that. It may not have been his intention but I wonder if he thinks it's a bad thing?
I know that Juliana Hatfield has an unreleased album (God's Foot - Warner refused to release it) and unlike Fiona Apple, she put a halt to things right away when it reached the internet because she was so unhappy about it. Hatfield is a tiny artist with not much money and she was able to do that. I can't see why Lindsey couldn't.

As for the eBay thing. If Lindsey's management contacted eBay and said a seller was auctioning a illegal bootleg of his, eBay would take it down right away. That's been my past experience anyway.

[trackaghost]

He does not have the power to prevent a private sale and as for the question relating to whether or not he perceieved the sale of his demos as a bad thing, I can assure you he did. If those responsible for that sale and purchase had any respect for him we would never have heard the demos. Perhaps that's not the case now, but until we know it's not, I don't think we should run the risk of screwing him over again.

I think you're wrong there. I'm pretty sure eBay says you're not allowed to sell bootlegs and that they will take them down if they are notified. In fact I've seen eBay stop auctions because of that. Often people selling illegal stuff only put them up for a day or two, so they won't be up long enough for eBay to realise.

As for Lindsey perceiving the sale of his demos as a bad thing: I'm sure he did think that was a bad thing. What I meant was, did he think fans freely distributing them was a bad thing?
Has he ever said this?

[Sugar]

He does not have the power to prevent a private sale and as for the question relating to whether or not he perceieved the sale of his demos as a bad thing, I can assure you he did. If those responsible for that sale and purchase had any respect for him we would never have heard the demos. Perhaps that's not the case now, but until we know it's not, I don't think we should run the risk of screwing him over again.

I respect your concern for Lindsey, but he's got more money than all of us combined. If he wanted to stop it he could. What, is he sitting at home right now trying to figure out if he can scrape together the $200 bucks to win this auction? That is, if it's important to him to keep it out of the hands of the public. Those GOS MP3s David was talking about were up for a long time as she cycled through them!

If I was close to Lindsey and I had access to his tapes, would I make a copy and sell them? Probably not. But if it's not important enough to him to stop the sale, it's not going to be more important to me.

Not that I'm coughing up $200 bucks for this CD! They'll come around. Patience is a virtue. :D

[trackaghost]

The fact that the last demos sold is evidence that he does not have the power to prevent the sale, regardless of ebay. It was deviant.

As for the distribution, that is exactly my point. We don't know if he approves of the distribution so an effort should be made to determine this before they are freely distributed. If he does not mind then this is all fine of course, but until then it shouldn't occur.

Well ultimately we all have to make our own decisions. I will be downloading these tracks when they become available because, like I said before, I believe that Lindsey does in fact turn a blind eye to it all otherwise they wouldn't be out there (again other less prominent artists manage to keep the net free of their bootlegs). As Sugar said, if his management is worried that this seller is just going to attempt to sell the CD again if eBay take it down, $200 is nothing to him to buy it outright.
I'm sure many other fans such as yourself (I know John aka Wetcamelfood doesn't believe in the bootleg or unofficial release thing and I respect his opinion), will also do what they think is best.

[trackaghost]

Ok but just know that he did not turn a blind eye to it. You are mistaken if you think that the stealing and private sale of his demos was not a concern of his.


I'm not saying that anyone has the right to SELL his demos. I've never said that.
In fact didn't I say it's wrong for this seller to profit from Lindsey's work without his permission?
I feel like you're attributing things to me that I've never said!

How do you know he didn't turn a blind eye to it btw (meaning the free distribution of his tracks on fans sites rather than the illegal sale of them on eBay which obviously is a concern for any artist)? Sounds like you know something.

I still don't get why you're so against all this when you yourself downloaded the GOS demos. Seems weird. John at least stays away from all that stuff.
Plus, you never said any of this stuff to me when I made you that video tape of Lindsey stuff and none of that was official. :confused: :confused: :confused: I'm truly baffled I must say.

[AliP]

Ok but just know that he did not turn a blind eye to it. You are mistaken if you think that the stealing and private sale of his demos was not a concern of his.


I agree that it is a concern of his, but if it really was a top priority, he would make it so. It would not be hard for him to instruct management (or whoever) to scan ebay etc and put stops on such things. He has the money and the power to do so.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I do apologize for not being as acutely aware of Lindsey's thoughts, feelings, and wishes as you apparently are. I have no problem with people thinking that this isn't the right thing to do. Much like trackaghost, I respect everyone’s opinion regardless of whether or not it's that of my own and whether or not you choose to believe it, I did debate whether or not to go in on the purchase. What I don't respect nor appreciate is you telling me as well as others that wish to purchase this demo (many of whom I'm sure don't want to touch this thread with a ten foot pole) that we don't regard him as a human being which translates into you indirectly professing to be a better fan than everyone else because you won't take part. Considering how much you adore GOS, that smacks of hypocrisy. I find that to be incredibly condescending and flat out rude. You're a much better person than that, Lux.

This isn't an entire album. It's one song we haven't heard, two songs that were released, and one song we have yet to hear in its entirity but have heard on the documentary. If this was an entire album, perhaps I'd feel differently but at present, I do not.

That being said, I've e-mailed the seller and he responded rather quickly. To his knowledge, it came from either the promotions department or a journalist (he wasn't sure which). This tells me one of two things...it was either being distributed by East End Management to people in the business for reasons unbeknownst to us and was more than likely to be part of SYW but did not make the cut when the album did not become a double (the two unreleased songs, that is). It has apparently been listened to several times before it was sold to this seller. That's all the information I could get out of the guy right now.

[trackaghost]

That being said, I've e-mailed the seller and he responded rather quickly. To his knowledge, it came from either the promotions department or a journalist (he wasn't sure which). This tells me one of two things...it was either being distributed by East End Management to people in the business for reasons unbeknownst to us and was more than likely to be part of SYW but did not make the cut when the album did not become a double (the two unreleased songs, that is). It has apparently been listened to several times before it was sold to this seller. That's all the information I could get out of the guy right now.

If that's true, and I have no reason to believe it's not, then Lindsey obviously gave permission for it to be distributed to the press etc and is not against people hearing it.

Maybe I'm fooling myself, in order to justify all this to myself I don't know anymore. Anyway I'm off to bed.

[DownOnRodeo]

Like you say Lux, 'once they're out, they're out'. No matter who buys this, the person who sold it would have another copy to possibly sell again (especially with this one fetching such a good price), and if one person has this 4-track CD, surely others do. 'Once it's out, it's out'.

When we met Lindsey in the lobby in Brisbane, and someone mentioned SGCYM, he looked at us a bit stranegly and asked, "Where did you hear that? The internet?"

I thought that his response meant he wasn't happy with the whole internet, GOS thing. But you insisted afterwards that he actually seemed fine about it.

[wondergirl9847]

SGCYM was released through that GLAAD CD. Somebody posted on the Ledge that they got the CD by filling out some form on the Reprise (Warners?) website and they got it free. Then, it circulated that way. That's how I got mine too. I'm not sure why he would be surprised about folks knowing that song, but perhaps he forgot about that. :shrug:

[DownOnRodeo]

SGCYM was released through that GLAAD CD. Somebody posted on the Ledge that they got the CD by filling out some form on the Reprise (Warners?) website and they got it free. Then, it circulated that way. That's how I got mine too. I'm not sure why he would be surprised about folks knowing that song, but perhaps he forgot about that. :shrug:

Hmm, good point. But from the tone of his voice and the way he said 'internet', you could tell that this guy KNOWS about the GOS circulation etc. Does he really care that his biggest fans have this stuff? It didn't seem to bother him, according to Lux. I wasn't sure, but still I'm gonna listen to any demos that are leaked, and I don't see much point making each other feel guilty about it.

Lux, what would you do if you had the chance to buy an unheard Lennon tape - send it back to Yoko without a listen? :eek:

[christinaliz]

Although I don’t normally participate in discussions here, after being led to this one, I feel compelled to say a little something.

To say that I’m passionate about this sort of thing would be an understatement. Copyright infringement is serious business, in whatever form it may take. Legally, obviously. There’s another issue to be considered though, and that would be the moral. The latter frequently gets overlooked. The internet is a wonderful invention, but has made it extremely difficult for artists to keep their property their property. That’s right. It’s their property. If their property is sold, traded, transferred or copied without the intellectual property rights owner’s permission, it is stolen property.

Let’s run this back for a moment to previous sales of the artist’s property that have been solicited and ultimately spread over the internet. The unreleased demos you’re speaking of? Try to imagine working diligently for ten years and not being paid for that work, as well as being virtually powerless to stop the sale or transfer of that work by an unscrupulous third party. I realize the people here have said that they would ultimately purchase the released product, even after downloading for free, but not all would. That isn’t even the issue. Money isn’t the issue. The issue is, once again, stolen property.

As a writer, much of my work is unfinished. Some of it is published. The published material, I willingly and knowingly submitted for publication. I wanted it to be read. Would I feel the same about the unfinished portions of my work? Of course not. However, all of it is my intellectual property and I own the rights. What I choose to share and put out there should be my decision and done in my own time, when I’m ready. It may take me one year or twenty to get it out there. It's my property, my business, and my right. The artist you’re speaking of in this discussion is entitled to those same rights and that same privacy. When someone crosses over to ‘celebrity’ (and I dislike that word passionately), their work isn’t up for grabs, nor is their privacy, regardless of what their net worth amounts to in buying it back. They are entitled to the same freedoms.

The moral obligation now exists between seller and buyer. If the intellectual property rights owner does not authorize the sale, it should be terminated. In the case of the internet, that isn’t always possible, nor enforced. Even if removed, the seller has several high bidders to email for private sale. So, it goes back to being a moral issue. The seller may be unscrupulous, but does the buyer have to be? No bids equal no sale. The questions to be asked are these: Do you feel the artist and the owner of this material would sanction such a sale of his unedited, alternate or unreleased work? If so, would he promote it on a site such as eBay? Do you feel he would support or approve of the material being traded, exchanged, transferred, copied or sold without his consent over the internet?

One more thing to consider. There are cases in which the intellectual property rights owner and the artist are not one in the same. The artist may not sanction the transfer of said material, but through various sticky legal channels and rights being handed over, may not have as much power to stop it as you think.

Just points to ponder..

[DownOnRodeo]

Well then why don't you ('you' being anyone who is denouncing the rest of us trying to get our hands on it) ring up LB's management and get the to cancel the ebay sale? It's easy to preach, but perhaps taking that action would be the most moral thing to do here?

[Dreammms]

well the auction is over....

The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the minimum bid or Reserve amount.

[wondergirl9847]

Didn't think this thread would go like this. LOL Wonder what's gonna happen with it now.

[DownOnRodeo]

Oh, didn't see the bit earlier in the thread to say that the management had already been contacted. I'm happy enough with the sale being pulled - the idea of random somebody getting all that money for it, and good fans having to pay them, irks me . If it turns up on some fan site for download during the ten years between now and when it's officially released (if ever), then download I shall.

[DownOnRodeo]

I don't want to unnecessarily cause a debate but I did want to ask you, does it not "irk" that Lindsey did not want this to occur more than it irks to see fans having to pay? I don't think the issue was people having to spend their money on his work, the issue was his right to not have his property being sold without permission.

Seriously, what makes you think I would care any less about his personal preferences than you do? You know he's my 'hero' as it were. I think that he is just that to everyone here in this thread, to some extent, so it just seems redundant for each of us to mention that we wouldn't go against his express disapproval.

And beyond that obvious point, the idea of some random ripping off his work to get money from his small but loyal legion of obsessed fans is very irksome to me.

[DownOnRodeo]

OMG I just realised the irony...

..this thread should be retitled: IS THIS RIGHT?

:laugh:

[Kelly]

I am not sure if you realize Lux..but if the seller chose to stop the auction early..which apparently he did, that does not mean that it was pulled! When auctions are ended by ebay for copywrite violations..they simply disappear from ebay and the people who have placed bids on the auction recieve an email stating that the auction has been ended due to Vero violations. When you can still see the auction but there is a message from the seller that he chose to stop this auction to perhaps relist...ebay did not stop it! Therefore this auction was not stopped because Lindsey's management requested it. WB is very active in keeping up with ebay. Back when SYW was going on they were diligent in having illegally recorded dvd or vhs copies of any SYW show removed. With that in mind, if Lindsey was so concerned about this one new song getting out..he DOES have the power to contact ebay and inform that someone is selling his intellectual property. I am not sure why you keep implying that you KNOW for sure that Lindsey is upset about this auction. Are you just assuming that because you know he was upset about the release of his ENTIRE GoS album? This is one song, not ten years worth of work. Do you know for certain that he is upset about this particular cd? Or did you contact East End and someone there tell you they would look into it, it is a matter that concerns them? That would seem a logical response to a fan reporting a copywrite violation.

I agree, Trackaghost...this cd will make its way out shortly. The seller will either relist or sell it privately. If not, there are obviously more copies of this cd around. Eventually, like alot of this stuff, it makes its way out.

Does anyone else think it is possible that some of the time...certainly not all of the time, (whole GoS)..this stuff could be leaked intentionally? When Thrown Down came out...I just felt like it was something done intentionally to see the fans reaction. I could be way off base but that was the feeling I had at the time.

[DownOnRodeo]

I am not sure if you realize Lux..but if the seller chose to stop the auction early..which apparently he did, that does not mean that it was pulled! When auctions are ended by ebay for copywrite violations..they simply disappear from ebay and the people who have placed bids on the auction recieve an email stating that the auction has been ended due to Vero violations. When you can still see the auction but there is a message from the seller that he chose to stop this auction to perhaps relist...ebay did not stop it! Therefore this auction was not stopped because Lindsey's management requested it. WB is very active in keeping up with ebay. Back when SYW was going on they were diligent in having illegally recorded dvd or vhs copies of any SYW show removed. With that in mind, if Lindsey was so concerned about this one new song getting out..he DOES have the power to contact ebay and inform that someone is selling his intellectual property. I am not sure why you keep implying that you KNOW for sure that Lindsey is upset about this auction. Are you just assuming that because you know he was upset about the release of his ENTIRE GoS album? This is one song, not ten years worth of work. Do you know for certain that he is upset about this particular cd? Or did you contact East End and someone there tell you they would look into it, it is a matter that concerns them? That would seem a logical response to a fan reporting a copywrite violation.

I agree, Trackaghost...this cd will make its way out shortly. The seller will either relist or sell it privately. If not, there are obviously more copies of this cd around. Eventually, like alot of this stuff, it makes its way out.

Does anyone else think it is possible that some of the time...certainly not all of the time, (whole GoS)..this stuff could be leaked intentionally? When Thrown Down came out...I just felt like it was something done intentionally to see the fans reaction. I could be way off base but that was the feeling I had at the time.

I agree with all of what you just said, Kelly. Well put!

[David]

I don't think the issue was people having to spend their money on his work, the issue was his right to not have his property being sold without permission.Fleetwood fans have considered that issue for decades. You're not the first to raise it & you won't be the last. The fact of the matter is that it bothers some fans & not others.

That nut Ginny used to tell Stevie Nicks fans in letters & e-mail that her "boss" was always extremely upset (Ginny often made it sound as if Stevie were practically hysterical about it) about her unreleased material being quieted away from her somehow, time & time again, & sold or otherwise leaked to the public. That hasn't stopped most Stevie fans from amassing huge collections of demos & unreleased studio tracks & unreleased videos & other memorabilia that does still in legal fact belong to Stevie. Legally -- & even ethically -- it's all wrong. But what should we all do? apply bloody self-scourges in the back room? use whips with barbs on them?

As I said earlier, it is copyright infringement. There's no getting around it. So what are your faults, Lux -- or don't you have any?

[David]

Does anyone else think it is possible that some of the time...certainly not all of the time, (whole GoS)..this stuff could be leaked intentionally?As far as the members of FM are concerned, I seriously doubt it, myself. In fact, in numerous specific cases from around 1978 to the present, I know it not to be true.

[sodascouts]

I know that the person who first distributed the cassette which later became known as the Village Recorder demos was a friend of Cheri Caspari. Once she realized how huge the demand was for these demos, she began to sell them on ebay. I don't know if she was the only one who sold them, but I do know that she was one of them.

I guess I will further appall certain people and admit I was the one who purchased the rough Village Recorder demos from the friend of Cheri Caspari (not the finished ones that were put up on SaraRhiannon's site) and then put them up for download. I feel like it's unfair to be criticized by people who took advantage of the download and get pleasure from listening to the songs, but perhaps that's just me.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I feel like it's unfair to be criticized by people who took advantage of the download and get pleasure from listening to the songs, but perhaps that's just me.

And we've hit the nail on the head here. It's more than a little hypocritical for one to complain and then turn around, download them and then rave about them on a message board and hold open discussions on "Favorite Demos" etc.

Even if you aren't the person who initially purchases the demos that eventually become available to fans for free to download, aren't you equally as wrong to be downloading them for free and listening to them? I just think trying to take the moral high road by saying purchasing is more of a crime than downloading them once they're out there is ridiculous. No one is better than anyone else, IMO.

[GardenStateGirlie]

What you don't seem to understand is that EVERYONE has listened to his demos (that chose to do so) so regardless of whether or not they were purchased privately, they were offered to his fanbase. You didn't have to pay for them but you have them (whether or not you were in the postion to have them is irrelevant). You listened! It doesn't make you any more moral than anyone else! If you feel so strongly, then last month or whenever you first heard GOS, you could have said "no thanks," or will you be sending Lindsey a check in the mail?

We're beating a dead horse here.

[sodascouts]

Do you mean through private sale?

They're good songs, I don't see what that has to do with it though. We shouldn't have been in the position to ever hear them. You don't agree obviously. It would be easier to agree to disagree if you hadn't just said you purchased that last demos.

Yes, I did. Privately. And you know what's funny? I actually thought I was going a good thing, because by offering it for download (using my own funds for the purchase and the bandwidth) was decreasing profiteering. It is true we disagree. It would be easier to disagree with you if you hadn't just said that you are one of the people who take advantage of these downloads. You act affronted and refuse to see the hypocrisy of that, I guess because it would force you to relinquish your pretense of moral superiority.

[AliP]

I guess I will further appall certain people and admit I was the one who purchased the rough Village Recorder demos from the friend of Cheri Caspari (not the finished ones that were put up on SaraRhiannon's site) and then put them up for download. I feel like it's unfair to be criticized by people who took advantage of the download and get pleasure from listening to the songs, but perhaps that's just me.


I'm not appalled at all. I think that was very generous of you. :) I actually slipped right in there and got the demo for free (beside paying for the cost of the tape and shipping) before she realized how huge the demand was for it and put it on ebay.

[amber]

Yes, I did. Privately. And you know what's funny? I actually thought I was going a good thing, because by offering it for download (using my own funds for the purchase and the bandwidth) was decreasing profiteering. It is true we disagree. It would be easier to disagree with you if you hadn't just said that you are one of the people who take advantage of these downloads. You act affronted and refuse to see the hypocrisy of that, I guess because it would force you to relinquish your pretense of moral superiority.
I am very grateful for everything that you post for all of us to enjoy, Nancy. You are tireless, and it seems you share everything. So, thank you very much. :xoxo:

[sodascouts]

I am very grateful for everything that you post for all of us to enjoy, Nancy. You are tireless, and it seems you share everything. So, thank you very much. :xoxo:

Thank you. :)

[thepoetinmyhear]

Do you mean through private sale?

They're good songs, I don't see what that has to do with it though. We shouldn't have been in the position to ever hear them. You don't agree obviously. It would be easier to agree to disagree if you hadn't just said you purchased that last demos.

Yeah, I'm sorry Lux but it seems like you're trying to take the high ground by reallocating blame. It's like the person who sued McDonald's because they were overweight, "I should never have been able to buy the food. It should never have been made available to me." It's a little thing called personal choice and responsibility. We're not your mommy and I happen to know you're old enough to make the decision for yourself.

Is it wrong that these tapes are stolen? Yes.

Do We know that these tapes were stolen? No.

Was Lindsey's management aware of the auction? Yes.

Did they even attempt to pull it? No. (How do I know this? I decided to alert ebay to a fraudulent auction, auctioning off demos. I did this today and within 1 hour the auction was down and any links to it resulted in a page saying Invalid item, so I a non-copyright holder got an auction taken down in less than an hour).

I'm grateful to all the fans that have made things available and grateful for my ability to choose whether or not to download it.

[sodascouts]

So Nancy, why do you presume they were not being sold on ebay? Don't pretend that isn't deviant. Do you not realise that you're taking pride in the partaking of causing some kind of grief for the one person you claim to idolise. I cannot understand the logic in defying him in that manner, the person I imagine you'd like only to impress. The day that purchase is ok is the day you get to greet Lindsey and tell him without any concerns that you were the one who purchased and distributed those at his expense. I can say that I'd be more than embarassed and apologetic. The seller is obviously that main one at fault but purchasing and distributing that despite him and his expressed intent is deviant. Wouldn't it have been more considerate to him to not distribute the songs? You had that power and at this point it has nothing to do with being selfish and keeping those songs from the 'true fans'. I'm one of those 'true fans' and my desire for his music does not outweigh his rights as the owner and one would presume, his feelings as our proclaimed idol. If he was at all a concern you could have simply sat on those songs and played whatever part you could in aiding him. It's hard to see that he's any more than a machine for your site's popularity at this point.

I had no idea what these even were when I was given them by a friend, I was entirely new and uneducated about his music, simply receiving a batch of Lindsey's work, old and new. I would have had much more conflict about taking them had I known any of this. Also don't come back at me with something about my still being able to hear them and say this because I obviously would have otherwise loved to hear this new material that is no longer there. I lose in that regard like you all but as I said, it's not about our listening desires.


Wow, Lux. If you really believe that I don't have any regard for Lindsey other than as a tool for promoting my site, that I spent hours and hours and hours on a site dedicated to him not because I love him, but because for some reason I feel this is my road to fame (?!!), I really don't know how to respond to you. You really think I'm that pathetic? Wow. Well, you win. You've truly rendered me speechless. Yay Lux.

[amber]

So Nancy, why do you presume they were not being sold on ebay? Don't pretend that isn't deviant. Do you not realise that you're taking pride in the partaking of causing some kind of grief for the one person you claim to idolise. I cannot understand the logic in defying him in that manner, the person I imagine you'd like only to impress. The day that purchase is ok is the day you get to greet Lindsey and tell him without any concerns that you were the one who purchased and distributed those at his expense. I can say that I'd be more than embarassed and apologetic. The seller is obviously that main one at fault but purchasing and distributing that despite him and his expressed intent is deviant. Wouldn't it have been more considerate to him to not distribute the songs? You had that power and at this point it has nothing to do with being selfish and keeping those songs from the 'true fans'. I'm one of those 'true fans' and my desire for his music does not outweigh his rights as the owner and one would presume, his feelings as our proclaimed idol. If he was at all a concern you could have simply sat on those songs and played whatever part you could in aiding him. It's hard to see that he's any more than a machine for your site's popularity at this point.

I had no idea what these even were when I was given them by a friend, I was entirely new and uneducated about his music, simply receiving a batch of Lindsey's work, old and new. I would have had much more conflict about taking them had I known any of this. Also don't come back at me with something about my still being able to hear them and say this because I obviously would have otherwise loved to hear this new material that is no longer there. I lose in that regard like you all but as I said, it's not about our listening desires.
Lux, I say this with love - do you think, perhaps, in this case, considering all the factors, you may be personalizing Lindsey a little bit too much? I see your point, and all, but.... :shrug:

[Serrart]

I had no idea what these even were when I was given them by a friend, I was entirely new and uneducated about his music, simply receiving a batch of Lindsey's work, old and new. I would have had much more conflict about taking them had I known any of this. Also don't come back at me with something about my still being able to hear them and say this because I obviously would have otherwise loved to hear this new material that is no longer there. I lose in that regard like you all but as I said, it's not about our listening desires.

You mean you didn't know what a demo is? Come on.

Romy

[Serrart]

Yes, I did. Privately. And you know what's funny? I actually thought I was going a good thing, because by offering it for download (using my own funds for the purchase and the bandwidth) was decreasing profiteering. It is true we disagree. It would be easier to disagree with you if you hadn't just said that you are one of the people who take advantage of these downloads. You act affronted and refuse to see the hypocrisy of that, I guess because it would force you to relinquish your pretense of moral superiority.

Just want to thank you too, Nancy. When I found your site, as a new FM fan, to listen to their old concerts for the first time or to GOS or BN album was really a gift. :)

Romy

[DownOnRodeo]

Is this even Lux typing these posts? They're making less and less sense.

[thepoetinmyhear]

I think the best thing anyone can say at this point is, We disagree on ALL counts. It does not appear there is a chance that either side will be convinced that the other is right, so let's call the whole thing off. (To ma to) (to mah to)

[DownOnRodeo]

Lux if you'd be so kind as to respond to MSN then maybe I will be able to see where you're coming from.

[DownOnRodeo]

I'll respond when I can or want to. I have enough to respond here occasionally but that doesn't mean I'm obliged to chat even if I'm sitting here (and in fact I've been asleep for most of the day) when you won't be so kind as to allow me to be human. If the rules of friendship consist of 'no drama' then you can't always expect a chat. People lives are too dramatic to always talk about the weather and I'm not referring to this little drama over here. I'll chat when I can but don't get annoyed to the point of posting in a public forum when you're the one who requested it be this way.

Would the counsel for the plaintiff please rest her case? There's no rules to my friendship and there's no clean-cut rules for bootlegs for that matter. Aiee!

[DownOnRodeo]

you won't be so kind as to allow me to be human

If this is referring to my post that doubted whether it was really you who had been posting in this thread, let me assure you that I was not being sarcastic or derogatory. It seemed to me that someone else (Scott? who knows) might have been pretending to be you.

And the fact that you weren't (aren't) replying to MSN strengthened that theory for me. I thought, 'If this is the real Lux, she'll be happy to talk about it'.

Anyway, you may as well forget MSN and just use this thread as I think you'll find few others will be bothering to come back here, what with the Reception of Brutus awaiting them. :shrug:

[DownOnRodeo]

I'm not recalling the conversation in question - perhaps mentioning it privately in MSN would refresh my memory.

Nice attempt to paint me as a bastard who turns away friends in need! Hah! The irony is that my friends know that I am always eager to try 'counselling' them through their problems. Clearly nothing and no one will agree with you in your current frame of mind - perhaps even Lindsey himself should he pay you a visit would say the wrong thing and contradict what he has previously said at some random point in history (although this is of course less likely for him, with his penchant for decades of cyclical repetetion). So, as always, and as all my friends know, including you too hopefully, I remain available on MSN if they need an ear and some 'Dr Phil'-ish advice.

As for my 'no drama policy'.. who <i>does</i> want it?? Anyway, now that most of my friends are well into their 20s I don't really have that problem anymore (ie of people who do nothing but moan or gossip or what have you.)

God, while I've been writing these replies I've been trying to give advice to my friend on MSN who's mother died earlier this year and her father's seeing someone new already, which is really upsetting to my friend, the daughter, and her sister. At one point she had sent about 10 messages and I missed them all cause I was working on a reply to you. She got a bit annoyed and joked that she won't bother talking to me about any of her problems again.

Hard to put a foot right when you try to be friendly to a lot of people at the same time.

[Kelly]

Lux...you have stated several times that you "know" Lindsey is upset about this auction and that his management tried to have this auction stopped but ebay did nothing. Do I undernd that correctly? You have implied that his management tried in vain to have this item removed..right? How do you know that?? Are they telling you that? I am unclear how you know what Lindsey's wants, desires, wishes, feelings are on this particular auction?
I have contacted the seller and he has informed me that no one from Lindsey's management has made any effort to communicate with him regarding this auction. They have not emailed him and requested he remove it. HE REMOVED this auction. He may relist. It was not removed by ebay...not matter how many people may have complained. If LBs management was disturbed by this auction..certainly an email to the seller would be reasonable. They could have appealed to his sense of right from wrong..they could have explained that these are unauthorized...they could have threatened legal action...they could have offered to buy it back from him for a few hundred bucks. East End chose not to do any of those things... therefore, I can only assume they did not want to.

Nancy...thanks for everything! Do not feel guilty...Stevie has damn near a hundred of her demos all over the place. This is one...I am sure he is not losing sleep over it.
Before anyone says that justifies stealing from LB..it does not.

[seeknpeace]

It is the lesser of two evils but as I mentioned, there is a third option. The person who wins the bid has the power to change it into the ethical solution by returning it or facilitating the other methods I mentioned in the previous post.

while all of this is very ethical and clean, are you aware that the seller is trying to get 500.00 for this work now? He pulled the deal off eBay to up the price? Personally, I do not feel that any fan should have to pay the extortion that this seller wants and then give it over to Lindsey. He should buy it, or his people, if that is what he wants. None of use are responsible to return work to him that he can just as well either buy or send his attorneys after to stop. Why don't you just call East End Management and inform them that this is going on and let them handle it, if indeed they even care. They have deeper pockets than we do, and access to better legal representation and advice.

[seeknpeace]

An attempt was made but responded with no effort to take action. I suspect that you were not the first to report this other auction.

so you know, I have had auctions removed many times for infringements. If they get a dispute, it comes down. There do not have to be numerous ones...just one.

[Highway Woman]

I don't think anyone should pay this guy $500.

[seeknpeace]

I don't think anyone should pay this guy $500.

Hell no...no way. He is a greedy person and has no shame.

[David]

Hell no...no way.But somebody will . . . doncha think?

[seeknpeace]

But somebody will . . . doncha think?

Very possibly, very probably Mr. Dave :shocked: