Britney's prego

[wondergirl9847]

http://insider.tv.yahoo.com/celeb/2005/04/12/britneypregnant/

Uh mah gah.

[The Tower]

Good thing she's been smoking cigarettes all this time :rolleyes: .

I wonder if we'll get any pics a-la Catherine Zeta-Jones?

[DrummerDeanna]

I hate Britney Spears.





that's all.

[amber]

She went into the hospital today or yesterday or something with complications. it's on pagesixsixsix.com.
I wonder if the "complication" is an "abortion" because her husband is a cheating scuzzbag? hmmm....

[GODDESS6]

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[GardenStateGirlie]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[ontheEdgeof17]

She went into the hospital today or yesterday or something with complications. it's on pagesixsixsix.com.
I wonder if the "complication" is an "abortion" because her husband is a cheating scuzzbag? hmmm....


I wouldn't think that she would have an abortion since all she has talked about is having a kid. Her husband is a piece of white trash, though. I think her hospitalization is something involuntary and possibly very serious...or she could just have the vomiting and dehydration stuff that can be corrected fairly easily.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.


:.:.Hot.:.:

[GateandGarden]

Her husband is a piece of white trash, though.Then they're a match made in heaven. :D

[amber]

I wouldn't think that she would have an abortion since all she has talked about is having a kid. Her husband is a piece of white trash, though. I think her hospitalization is something involuntary and possibly very serious...or she could just have the vomiting and dehydration stuff that can be corrected fairly easily.
I know, it probably isn't. Perhaps wishful thinking on my part? I don't think she believes in them, anyways. I hope she's alright.

[xdreamsunwindx]

...Who cares?

[GateandGarden]

...Who cares?But doesn't it sadden you that she's reproducing? Isn't it awful that there could be a Kevin/Britney combination in the making? :eek: :shocked: That's absolutely horrifying!

[sparky]

I wonder when she will be whelping this little devil's spawn ?

[amber]

I wonder when she will be whelping this little devil's spawn ?
I think in about 6.5-7.5 months...

[xdreamsunwindx]

But doesn't it sadden you that she's reproducing? Isn't it awful that there could be a Kevin/Britney combination in the making? :eek: :shocked: That's absolutely horrifying!

It sickens me to no end. Well, that's being overdramatic, as I could care less. But eeegh, mini!Britney. The poor kid. But what really sickens me is that people actually care. She got pregnant. Big deal. She's not the first.

It just kills me that the media is succeeding in brainwashing society as a whole into giving a damn. [/rant]

[dissention]

Eh, I could care less. If it keeps her from making more music, I'm happy for her.

[amber]

Amber, you wished she'd have an abortion due to rocky circumstances? I'm pro-choice but how can you wish someone to have an abortion when they want the kid? That seems barbaric.

Basically I'm going with Kate, I don't care, and with that in mind, she should be allowed to have her kid.
Yes, but I wish most people wouldn't have kids. Not just Britney. But I don't care that much. Mostly I was just musing in a gossipy, off the cuff sort of way. I hope she is ok. At least she has the money to afford her baby. Yes, I'm extremely barbaric, that's me. No kids! is my motto. :)

[xdreamsunwindx]

Amber, you wished she'd have an abortion due to rocky circumstances? I'm pro-choice but how can you wish someone to have an abortion when they want the kid? That seems barbaric.

Basically I'm going with Kate, I don't care, and with that in mind, she should be allowed to have her kid.

Exactly. I don't know how anyone could wish an abortion on anyone. I personally feel bad for the kid..er, fetus, I guess, since it's not born and all, but anyways. I mean, Britney's not exactly bright, and Kevin's just an ass, in my opinion. Who knows how long he's going to be in the kid's life. Maybe Brit'll change once she's a mom, who knows. But I mean, that's no reason to wish that kinda stuff on her.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Eh, I could care less. If it keeps her from making more music, I'm happy for her.

:laugh:

Preach it!

Watch out for a lullaby album, though.

[GateandGarden]

Are people who make ****ty music not allowed the *joys* (she obviously wants it) of parenthood? Are people we hate not even allowed that? I don't get the big deal. She wants the kid, that seems enough to ignore the irrelevant fact that she makes ****ty music and seems like an airhead. There's no rule that airheads can't be mothers so just let her have her baby, I think she and the baby are entitled to that one thing.

Basically I'm going with Kate, I don't care, and with that in mind, she should be allowed to have her kid.It's more than just the ****ty music. She really is a world class idiot. We Louisianans know! :laugh: It's a shame for world class idiots to be having sex with other world class idiots and producing more of them. I think some people shouldn't have kids. That doesn't mean I think we should stop them or make it illegal, I just think they shouldn't. It's just my opinion.

[GateandGarden]

Exactly. I don't know how anyone could wish an abortion on anyone. I personally feel bad for the kid..er, fetus, I guess, since it's not born and all, but anyways. I mean, Britney's not exactly bright, and Kevin's just an ass, in my opinion. Who knows how long he's going to be in the kid's life. Maybe Brit'll change once she's a mom, who knows. But I mean, that's no reason to wish that kinda stuff on her.I feel sorry for the kid, too. And they're probably parade it around after it's born for the whole freakin' world (which is so tasteless, IMO) and then I'll feel even more sorry for it.

[dissention]

It's a shame for world class idiots to be having sex with other world class idiots and producing more of them.

Just because the parents are whoreanus ****tards, it doesn't mean the kid will be.

[GateandGarden]

Watch out for a lullaby album, though.Oh, the mere idea! :eek:

[ryan8472]

Just because the parents are whoreanus ****tards, it doesn't mean the kid will be.
But consider the child's eventual up-bringing... :distress:

[GateandGarden]

Just because the parents are whoreanus ****tards, it doesn't mean the kid will be.True, true. I take that back. I think the problem would come in if they were to raise the child. I think that would screw it up.

[amber]

True, true. I take that back. I think the problem would come in if they were to raise the child. I think that would screw it up.

:lol: :laugh: :lol:
:xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

But consider the child's eventual up-bringing... :distress:Oh, Ryan beat me to that. :laugh:

[dissention]

But consider the child's eventual up-bringing... :distress:

Look at the "other" Osbourne sister. She grew up with a family of intellectually retarded schmucks and she turned out fine.

Kevin and Britney emobody whoreanusness, but let's not diss on the child that's going to be born into it. For all we know, Britney will be an exemplary mother. Stupid, but maybe a good mother in the end.

[ryan8472]

Look at the "other" Osbourne sister. She grew up with a family of intellectually retarded schmucks and she turned out fine.

Kevin and Britney emobody whoreanusness, but let's not diss on the child that's going to be born into it. For all we know, Britney will be an exemplary mother. Stupid, but maybe a good mother in the end.
Perhaps...the baby will probably be raised by a nanny anyways....so who knows.

[GateandGarden]

...Kevin and Britney emobody whoreanusness...:laugh::lol::laugh::lol::laugh:

[amber]

Look at the "other" Osbourne sister. She grew up with a family of intellectually retarded schmucks and she turned out fine.

Kevin and Britney emobody whoreanusness, but let's not diss on the child that's going to be born into it. For all we know, Britney will be an exemplary mother. Stupid, but maybe a good mother in the end.
Brit and kevin were once children, but we are dissing them. So, you can diss the parents of any child, but not the children...what's the cutoff age? Was it okay to Diss brit when she first came out at 16? Or is that to young? :lol:

[dissention]

Brit and kevin were once children, but we are dissing them. So, you can diss the parents of any child, but not the children...what's the cutoff age? Was it okay to Diss brit when she first came out at 16? Or is that to young? :lol:

I think it's a bit different to say how stupid someone like Britney Spears or Kevin Ferderline is than it is to talk **** about their baby and how he/she will turn out. Hootchie has proven to be a dolt, but let's at least reserve judgement until she proves herself to be a dolt of a parent.

[amber]

I think it's a bit different to say how stupid someone like Britney Spears or Kevin Ferderline is than it is to talk **** about their baby and how he/she will turn out. Hootchie has proven to be a dolt, but let's at least reserve judgement until she proves herself to be a dolt of a parent.
You can! Oh, wait...did you want everyone else, too, as well? sounds like. S'okay, I didn't judge the kid.

[sparky]

But consider the child's eventual up-bringing... :distress:

Think of the Mommie Dearest book in thirty years !

[sparky]

I think it's a bit different to say how stupid someone like Britney Spears or Kevin Ferderline is than it is to talk **** about their baby and how he/she will turn out. Hootchie has proven to be a dolt, but let's at least reserve judgement until she proves herself to be a dolt of a parent.

Who slipped a charitable pill in your bottled water ? :lol:


Or do you have a soft spot for Skankney ?

[dissention]

Who slipped a charitable pill in your bottled water ? :lol:

Or do you have a soft spot for Skankney ?

No, I certainly don't. :laugh: I just can't believe that people are saying that she might have had it aborted and that because the parents are whoreanus idiots, their kid is going to be, too. I mean, c'mon, it's ****ing baby we're talking about. Diss the parents for the white trash that they are, but don't go after the kid; it's tasteless. It's bad enough the kid is going to have to deal with a father that smells of ass and a mother that's going to resemble Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife in five or six years.

[amber]

Who slipped a charitable pill in your bottled water ? :lol:


Or do you have a soft spot for Skankney ?
I was wondering, as well. :confused:

[dissention]

I'm not all that familiar with it but wasn't it an accusation of domestic violence? That would be making a huge and unjustified leap in assumption!

Ooh, you should read it, it's a great read. I think most of it's bull**** and that Christina Crawford is venomous bitch, but it's still a fun read for the campiness alone.

[amber]

No, I certainly don't. :laugh: I just can't believe that people are saying that she might have had it aborted and that because the parents are whoreanus idiots, their kid is going to be, too. I mean, c'mon, it's ****ing baby we're talking about. Diss the parents for the white trash that they are, but don't go after the kid; it's tasteless. It's bad enough the kid is going to have to deal with a father that smells of ass and a mother that's going to resemble Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife in five or six years.
Still, it doesn't sound like you. Especially to call something "tasteless", considering. And I was merely wondering if that's what she was doing in the hospital. And I always hope people don't have kids, anyway. 'Sides, abortion is neither a crime nor a moral failing. At least not in my state. :D It holds no connotations for me about the fitness or non fitness of Britney, ie, it is not an insult whatsoever. :wavey: Maybe to others it implies some sort of Stigma, but that other is not me.

[sparky]

I'm not all that familiar with it but wasn't it an accusation of domestic violence? That would be making a huge and unjustified leap in assumption!

I don't know that the term domestic violence really cuts it. Let's just say that Joan Crawford was a raging nutcase, and extremely emotionally abusive towards everyone who came in her path, including her kids.

Imagine the stories of being raised by the white trash who won the lotto, though. Fried spam in a mansion. Ordering chili dogs with cheese from room service at The Plaza. Visiting your father who lives in a trailer with his third wife and all their kids. Mom smoking Marlboro lights while pregnant with your siblings and watching the maid make pancakes....I could go on.

Sounds rich !

[amber]

Ooh, you should read it, it's a great read. I think most of it's bull**** and that Christina Crawford is venomous bitch, but it's still a fun read for the campiness alone.
Actually, for the record, I think the things Joan did were horrible. And I believe that they were true, for the most part. I had a mommy dearest, it was like that. Only not so heavy on the "no wire hangers". :laugh: It ain't fun, and it ain't pretty, but people do act that way. ;)
Edit - what Sparkelah said.

[dissention]

Still, it doesn't sound like you. Especially to call something "tasteless", considering.

Yeah, because I love to go around talking smack about babies and kids. :rolleyes: If anyone else wants to, go right ahead. While I may not have much class anywhere else, I don't lack it so badly that I'll talk **** about little kids and how they'll turn out to be "world class idiots."

[amber]

Yeah, because I love to go around talking smack about babies and kids. :rolleyes: If anyone else wants to, go right ahead. While I may not have much class anywhere else, I don't lack it so badly that I'll talk **** about little kids and how they'll turn out to be "world class idiots."
Fair enough. (I guess...seems a bit of a double standard, but I don't care, really). Luckily, I didn't say that, so I have no beef. :)

[dissention]

Actually, for the record, I think the things Joan did were horrible. And I believe that they were true, for the most part. I had a mommy dearest, it was like that. Only not so heavy on the "no wire hangers". :laugh: It ain't fun, and it ain't pretty, but people do act that way. ;)
Edit - what Sparkelah said.

Miss Crawford lost all credibility, in my eyes, when she reissued her trash book with collectible wire hangers. I'm not saying all of it was bull, I'm sure a lot was true, but I think it was GREATLY embellished because she was so furious at getting nothing when Crawford died.

[amber]

Miss Crawford lost all credibility, in my eyes, when she reissued her trash book with collectible wire hangers. I'm not saying all of it was bull, I'm sure a lot was true, but I think it was GREATLY embellished because she was so furious at getting nothing when Crawford died.
okay. That is lame about the wire hangers, but I, personally, didn't believe it was embellished that much. 'Course, I don't know for sure, of course, but most of it sounded plausible and real to me. Now, B.D. Hyman's book, on the other hand... :rolleyes:

[dissention]

okay. That is lame about the wire hangers, but I, personally, didn't believe it was embellished that much. 'Course, I don't know for sure, of course, but most of it sounded plausible and real to me. Now, B.D. Hyman's book, on the other hand... :rolleyes:

I simply found the wire hanger promotion to lack a great deal of class and it kind of mocked child abuse. Not cool, in my opinion.

Hyman's book is incredibly badly written and a total rip-off of Mommie Dearest, but I loved reading Bette's rebuttal in her last book before she died. :laugh:

[amber]

I simply found the wire hanger promotion to lack a great deal of class and it kind of mocked child abuse. Not cool, in my opinion.
I agree, I hadn't heard about that. And? It's almost like she knew about the upcoming movie... :laugh:
Hyman's book is incredibly badly written and a total rip-off of Mommie Dearest, but I loved reading Bette's rebuttal in her last book before she died. :laugh:
That was the best. I get a warm fuzzy just thinking about it. *snicker*

[dissention]

I agree, I hadn't heard about that. And? It's almost like she knew about the upcoming movie... :laugh:

No, this in '98 or '99 for the 20th Anniversary reissue of the book. What made her accusations even more suspicious, to me, was that she re-edited the book and wrote about MORE abuse. I had bought into it all until then, but I quickly realized she was an opportunist. When she went out on the promotional tour, she had wire hangers that she gave out at the book signings!

That was the best. I get a warm fuzzy just thinking about it. *snicker*

Bette? Was the best. :D

[amber]

No, this in '98 or '99 for the 20th Anniversary reissue of the book. What made her accusations even more suspicious, to me, was that she re-edited the book and wrote about MORE abuse. I had bought into it all until then, but I quickly realized she was an opportunist. When she went out on the promotional tour, she had wire hangers that she gave out at the book signings!



Bette? Was the best. :D
Hmm, well that is not as bad, after all it was a well known saying by that time, due to the movie and Miss Dunaway's.....vivid ... performance. It had been a joke for a long time.
It was also very opportunistic. :nod:

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, because I love to go around talking smack about babies and kids. :rolleyes: If anyone else wants to, go right ahead. While I may not have much class anywhere else, I don't lack it so badly that I'll talk **** about little kids and how they'll turn out to be "world class idiots."Uh, hello? Remember that I took back that comment? :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Miss Crawford lost all credibility, in my eyes, when she reissued her trash book with collectible wire hangers. I'm not saying all of it was bull, I'm sure a lot was true, but I think it was GREATLY embellished because she was so furious at getting nothing when Crawford died.

Yep.

I think that book was written to be vindictive and the incidences were made up or, at the least, greatly exaggerated. I am sure La Crawford was no sunshine personality, but I think it is strange that none of the people who allegedly witnessed the events ever confirmed her story.

[cliffdweller]

It's bad enough the kid is going to have to deal with a father that smells of ass and a mother that's going to resemble Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife in five or six years.

Omg, I just "spit-taked" my coffee onto the computer screen. The absolute truth in your observations is uncanny Diss. :laugh: :laugh:

That's going to be one fugly kid. That's all I have to say.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I wonder if we'll get any pics a-la Catherine Zeta-Jones?
???? What pics were they then?

[skcin]

It's bad enough the kid is going to have to deal with a father that smells of ass and a mother that's going to resemble Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife in five or six years.


HEY! You leave Beth out of this! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:


BTW, to quote myself from the last Britney thread:

"I f*cking hate her. She's a pig." Paula T. 4/05

I hope she's, like, this really awesome mom & all so like, the kid will be great & stuff. Ya'll know what I'm sayin? :D

[SuzeQuze]

???? What pics were they then?

Catherine Zeta Jones was photographed smoking while she was 8+ months pregnant and there was a big ta-do-bruhaha about it.

[jannieC]

It's more than just the ****ty music. She really is a world class idiot. We Louisianans know! :laugh: It's a shame for world class idiots to be having sex with other world class idiots and producing more of them. I think some people shouldn't have kids. That doesn't mean I think we should stop them or make it illegal, I just think they shouldn't. It's just my opinion.

World-class idiots (famous and not famous) have children all the time, and sometimes they turn out to be great people.

Just out of curiosity, why would someone wish others NOT to have children? (I can't remember who posted that comment earlier)

Sorry, this is the quote I was referring to:

And I always hope people don't have kids, anyway.

[amber]

World-class idiots (famous and not famous) have children all the time, and sometimes they turn out to be great people.

Just out of curiosity, why would someone wish others NOT to have children? (I can't remember who posted that comment earlier)
It was me. I'm for zero growth population. I think people shouldn't keep having as many kids as they do. But it's very abstract, that's not gonna happen, at least not until the worlds population so far outstrips it's resources that there isn't enough food for everyone. (you know, like in Africa and India?). Anyway, it's nothing to get upset about, it's just an abstract wish that the population stop exploding. :wavey:

[The Tower]

Just out of curiosity, why would someone wish others NOT to have children? (I can't remember who posted that comment earlier)

Sorry, this is the quote I was referring to:

And I always hope people don't have kids, anyway.
I don't want anyone having kids. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

I don't want anyone having kids. :wavey:

MUCH LESS getting a tax deduction for them :mad:

[amber]

If they have kids, though, I want them to be able to pay for them, so I'm all for tax breaks. However, I think I should also be paid for not having kids and going on welfare, which saves the state money. I think I should get a tax break for that. :laugh: :laugh: And a bigger one than people with kids, because I have already saved the gov't tons of money, what with the educational expenses my kid doesn't have, the nonexistent health care costs, etc. :D :D

[strandinthewind]

If they have kids, though, I want them to be able to pay for them, so I'm all for tax breaks. However, I think I should also be paid for not having kids and going on welfare, which saves the state money. I think I should get a tax break for that. :laugh: :laugh: And a bigger one than people with kids, because I have already saved the gov't tons of money, what with the educational expenses my kid doesn't have, the nonexistent health care costs, etc. :D :D

Nope - no tax breaks. Then again, I think there should be a flat personal income tax of no more than 10 - 15% with no deductions whatsoever :eek:

[GateandGarden]

World-class idiots (famous and not famous) have children all the time, and sometimes they turn out to be great people.I know. And as I told Josh twice, I took that comment that I made back.

[amber]

Nope - no tax breaks. Then again, I think there should be a flat personal income tax of no more than 10 - 15% with no deductions whatsoever :eek:
Whatev. It's not like you get to make up the rule right now. :laugh: I think people who have kids and are poor should get the tax break. It hurts me if their kids are all mungy, hungry, and stupid. Not to mention the kid. Flat tax - is a regressive tax, not a progressive tax - not a good idea. 15% of my income is a way bigger chunk than 15% of your income and impacts me much more adversely. But rock on with your bad middle of the road self!!!! :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

I don't want anyone having kids. :wavey:At all? Ever? Absolutely no one? You want the human race to become extinct in the near future?

[strandinthewind]

. . . It's not like you get to make up the rule right now. :laugh: . . .

Therein lies the problem :laugh:

[jannieC]

I know. And as I told Josh twice, I took that comment that I made back.

You're right, Hillary, I'm sorry. :o

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tower
I don't want anyone having kids.
At all? Ever? Absolutely no one? You want the human race to become extinct in the near future?

This is what I'm wondering, too. I have a hard time relating to this, as the priveledge of childbearing was taken away from me. It's all where we're coming from, I guess. :shrug:

[The Tower]

At all? Ever? Absolutely no one? You want the human race to become extinct in the near future?
That would never happen. The urge to have sex is too great and people are stupid.

If the human race were wiped out, I wouldn't be all that upset. It's going to happen eventually one way or the other, so why worry about it.

[diamondsnake]

I'm praying for her impending spawn. This little boy or girl has the potential to be extremely messed up and I hope Britney changes her act pretty soon- she has been plain trash lately.

[dissention]

I'm praying for her impending spawn. This little boy or girl has the potential to be extremely messed up and I hope Britney changes her act pretty soon- she has been plain trash lately.

Lately? :laugh:

[Janet]

What bothers me is that I'm sure this was not thought out. It wasn't.

She didn't make sure the marriage was secure.
Her career isn't secure and she spends money like it's going out of style.
I'm sure she thinks it will be fun but say good bye to career and to shape for a while.
After all the tabloids, why now? Why not prove yourself a little if you can? Why rush into it like everyone expects you to do? Why *uck up on purpose??

I bet the only reason she told the press because she was sick of being called fat and zitney.

I cannot believe I even spent these last 2 minutes thinking about that girl.

And I guess everyone smokes during pregnancy. Did they say Demi was smoking too? My mom smoked with me and I'm normal...hehehehehehehe.
Seriously, get over yourself and quit smoking for 9 freaking months. If you aren't selfless enough to stop, then how you expect to be selfless enough to RAISE A CHILD?

[GateandGarden]

You're right, Hillary, I'm sorry. :oIt's okay! :)

This is what I'm wondering, too. I have a hard time relating to this, as the priveledge of childbearing was taken away from me...I'm sorry about this, though. :(

[GateandGarden]

That would never happen. The urge to have sex is too great and people are stupid.

If the human race were wiped out, I wouldn't be all that upset. It's going to happen eventually one way or the other, so why worry about it.I agree with the other points but can't understand why you "wouldn't be all that upset." I have a hard time grasping this notion that because something is inevitable, then it's not upsetting or shouldn't be upsetting. You approach death the same way. You've expressed the opinion (in one of our Pope threads) that because it's going to happen to everyone then it shouldn't be lamented at all. How can you be so numb? It must be nice. Do you imagine you would bounce back and simply say "Death is inevitable" if your partner were to die suddenly? How can you step away from the situation and be so rational and logical if it's personal?

[cliffdweller]

If the human race were wiped out, I wouldn't be all that upset. It's going to happen eventually one way or the other, so why worry about it.

Nice to see you're an optimist :laugh:

I agree (somewhat) with Amber. Fertility rates are out of control! We need to slow the breeding process down, and if you're going to procreate, only have 1 kid! And Do NOT give me a bunch of "only child" hoo-ha either! :laugh:

[jannieC]

It's okay! :)

I'm sorry about this, though. :(

Eh, it's okay. But of course it makes me more sensitive to someone saying people <i>shouldn't</i> have children. But I shouldn't take that out on others who have no idea what that's like.

[The Tower]

I agree with the other points but can't understand why you "wouldn't be all that upset." I have a hard time grasping this notion that because something is inevitable, then it's not upsetting or shouldn't be upsetting. You approach death the same way. You've expressed the opinion (in one of our Pope threads) that because it's going to happen to everyone then it shouldn't be lamented at all. How can you be so numb? It must be nice. Do you imagine you would bounce back and simply say "Death is inevitable" if your partner were to die suddenly? How can you step away from the situation and be so rational and logical if it's personal?

I'm not numb to the concept of death, I just don't think it's all that dramatic. I see funerals as a complete waste of money. Physical death is just a condition. I have known a lot of people in my life and most of them I don't know anymore. For all I know some of them could be dead. Does it matter? Not really from my perspective. Would it be sad to know that they are no longer alive? Possibly, but not guaranteed.

The pope was 84 and in ill health when he died. No one should have been surprised or saddened that it was his time to go. Terri Schiavo had been in a persistant vegetative state for 15 years. Literally, the world was in an uproar over this woman's condition and her subsequent death.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people were wiped out in the Indian Ocean tsunami. Tens of thousands of people were slaughtered in the Darfur region of the Sudan. The U.S. illegally invades a sovereign nation by choice and wipes out tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. How many of the people protesting the whole Terri Schiavo thing give a rat's ass about the civilians that died in Iraq and Sudan? If they voted for Bush, they sure as hell don't give a **** about it, which makes the whole "culture of life" concept complete and utter hypocrisy.

Death happens. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it doesn't. Terminally ill patients who are in extreme pain or discomfort might find solace in death.

Yes, I would be devastated if my partner died. But, I would have to deal with it. I know that he is going to die and the odds are (because he's a little bit older than me and his family has a history of heart disease) that he will die before me. It'll be awful. That's why I try to enjoy the here and now, and the concept of being happy. Everyone is going to die, so why act as if that's something bad? Enjoy life while you have it. Be kind to others and hope that they are, in turn, kind to you.

In general, I don't think that death should be lamented. When lives are cut short- then I think it should not only be lamented, but steps should be taken to prevent that. Police car chases that ended up running over an innocent bystander? That's bull****. Students getting shot because gang members own firearms and can use them at will? That's bull****.

An 84 year old man who's lived a great life, has travelled the world and has lived in wealth and priviledge for the last 35 years? Hey bud, you had a nice time and you lucked out- no biggie to see you go because it is your time.

[GateandGarden]

I'm not numb to the concept of death, I just don't think it's all that dramatic. I see funerals as a complete waste of money. Physical death is just a condition. I have known a lot of people in my life and most of them I don't know anymore. For all I know some of them could be dead. Does it matter? Not really from my perspective. Would it be sad to know that they are no longer alive? Possibly, but not guaranteed.

The pope was 84 and in ill health when he died. No one should have been surprised or saddened that it was his time to go. Terri Schiavo had been in a persistant vegetative state for 15 years. Literally, the world was in an uproar over this woman's condition and her subsequent death.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people were wiped out in the Indian Ocean tsunami. Tens of thousands of people were slaughtered in the Darfur region of the Sudan. The U.S. illegally invades a sovereign nation by choice and wipes out tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. How many of the people protesting the whole Terri Schiavo thing give a rat's ass about the civilians that died in Iraq and Sudan? If they voted for Bush, they sure as hell don't give a **** about it, which makes the whole "culture of life" concept complete and utter hypocrisy.

Death happens. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it doesn't. Terminally ill patients who are in extreme pain or discomfort might find solace in death.

Yes, I would be devastated if my partner died. But, I would have to deal with it. I know that he is going to die and the odds are (because he's a little bit older than me and his family has a history of heart disease) that he will die before me. It'll be awful. That's why I try to enjoy the here and now, and the concept of being happy. Everyone is going to die, so why act as if that's something bad? Enjoy life while you have it. Be kind to others and hope that they are, in turn, kind to you.

In general, I don't think that death should be lamented. When lives are cut short- then I think it should not only be lamented, but steps should be taken to prevent that. Police car chases that ended up running over an innocent bystander? That's bull****. Students getting shot because gang members own firearms and can use them at will? That's bull****.

An 84 year old man who's lived a great life, has travelled the world and has lived in wealth and priviledge for the last 35 years? Hey bud, you had a nice time and you lucked out- no biggie to see you go because it is your time.I do agree with most of what you said here. I especially understand your points about the civilians for whom no one seemed to be going to bat when they were gung-ho about poor Terri Schiavo. I like to think I'm not so hypocrtical, though. Well, I'm still a hypocrite about many things, as we all are, but I'd like to think, Not about that.

I also agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments about enjoying life here and now because of its brevity. It's one reason why fundies are so obnoxious to me--so many of them are so busy obsessing over the afterlife that they don't get a chance to enjoy the wonders of this life. They make life all about anticipation and anxiety, and then they try to force other people to think the same way about it. I don't intend to spend my life wishing I was somewhere else, somewhere better, and that this is not my home. (I think I'm getting into something that should be in another thread entirely, though. :laugh: ) I feel confident in saying that this life is the only one of which we can be completely certain. It's duration is uncertain, but the fact that we have this life is certain, regardless. I'm a broken record (and I claim to be a broken record often :laugh: ), but that is part of why I love listening to hearts; they represent life and what is real to me, what is to be cherished and celebrated.

Anyway, I'm trying not to stray too far from what we're talking about here, but I'm bad at that. I also agree that this whole "culture of life" thing is utter hypocrisy, because of what you mentioned and because those who talk about this "culture of life" always seem to be proponents of capital punishment. Now, the idea that all of those who voted for Bush don't give a rat's ass about all the civilians dying is quite a controversial assertion, and I'm sure there are Ledgies who voted for Bush who would beg to differ. Marissa comes to mind. I would say that those who not only voted for Bush, but actually like him and think he's a good person who has made good, fair, and justifiable decisions don't give a rat's ass about those civilians. I would also say that those people don't give a rat's ass about the GLBT community, but I got in trouble for that on the BN board, so...:shrug: Nevertheless, I say that to vote for someone and to think someone's a wonderful, tolerant, accepting, morally sound, etc. person are two very different things. I realize the outcome is the same, though.

Okay, the last few parts are what I have a difficult time with. It was certainly the Pope's time to go, IMO. It's far less tragic to me for someone to die of old age than prematurely. But, I still think it's to be lamented, because it's hard for me to see it any other way. We had a death in my family fairly recently, and it was someone who had lived a long life. But knowing that did not make it any easier for many of my family members. Granted, it was not as traumatic as it was a few years ago when an uncle of mine died young and completely unexpectedly, but it was still awfully difficult. It's still difficult. In some ways, for some of my family members, it will always be difficult, even though life goes on. Because of my personal experiences, I can't see not mourning someone's death because it did come at the expected time. I don't see how that necessarily makes it any easier for loved ones.

I certainly do take back my statement that you are numb. (It should have been expressed like "you seem to be numb" to begin with). It was an assumption, though I didn't really present it as such. I see that you're not, and I never really thought you were completely, anyway. Some of our differences may stem from the fact that to me, you appear to have more emotional strength than I do, and that may be true. It's very good to have; maybe I'll pick some up one of these days. :laugh: Still, the paragraph preceding this one stands. Maybe when I get older I'll understand your viewpoint more, but I doubt I could ever understand it completely.

Thanks for engaging me and not being offended by the things I've said.

And if anyone else wants to jump in with opinions on any of these issues, come on! :)

[dissention]

Anyway, I'm trying not to stray too far from what we're talking about here, but I'm bad at that. I also agree that this whole "culture of life" thing is utter hypocrisy, because of what you mentioned and because those who talk about this "culture of life" always seem to be proponents of capital punishment. Now, the idea that all of those who voted for Bush don't give a rat's ass about all the civilians dying is quite a controversial assertion, and I'm sure there are Ledgies who voted for Bush who would beg to differ. Marissa comes to mind. I would say that those who not only voted for Bush, but actually like him and think he's a good person who has made good, fair, and justifiable decisions don't give a rat's ass about those civilians. I would also say that those people don't give a rat's ass about the GLBT community, but I got in trouble for that on the BN board, so...:shrug: Nevertheless, I say that to vote for someone and to think someone's a wonderful, tolerant, accepting, morally sound, etc. person are two very different things. I realize the outcome is the same, though.


I'd say that anyone who voted for Bush doesn't care enough about GLBT's to prevent active discrimination against them. If people truly cared and thought they should be treated better, they wouldn't have cast a vote for Shrubya. Simple as that. :shrug: Granted, John Kerry wasn't much better and I'm ashamed of having voted for him, but at least he wasn't seeking for a constitutional ban on gay marriage and felt that gay men and women deserved equality in the workplace; no one can say the same in regards to this bastard administration.

[GateandGarden]

I'd say that anyone who voted for Bush doesn't care enough about GLBT's to prevent active discrimination against them. If people truly cared and thought they should be treated better, they wouldn't have cast a vote for Shrubya. Simple as that. :shrug: Granted, John Kerry wasn't much better and I'm ashamed of having voted for him, but at least he wasn't seeking for a constitutional ban on gay marriage and felt that gay men and women deserved equality in the workplace; no one can say the same in regards to this bastard administration.I'd like to agree with you but if you bring that up to many conservatives, they will say that it's not true--they have gay and lesbian friends they care about, and so on and so forth. My Dad voted for Bush. I know that he cares about me and he doesn't want people to discriminate against me, but he hated Kerry and thought Bush had good economic plans. :shrug: Generally, it's not a good feeling to think that the majority of the country doesn't give a rat's ass about gay people, but that is what you're saying. :shrug: I don't know. I've thought about this issue until I couldn't think about it anymore many times. I pretty much always have to give up and start thinking about something like why there's that weird skipping noise right at the beginning of "Only Over You" on the Mirage album. Thinking about stuff like that helps me keep my sanity. :laugh:

[dissention]

I'd like to agree with you but if you bring that up to many conservatives, they will say that it's not true--they have gay and lesbians friends they care about, and so on and so forth.

Well, of course they're going to disagree, they're essentially being called out on their insensitivity and, in SOME cases, bigotry. Everyone would get defensive at such an assertion (except skinheads or Klan members, they'd wear it as a badge of honor :laugh: ). But the fact of the matter is that if they voted for him, they voted for his platform, which includes gay discrimination. It's easy to say "Oh, I voted for Bush, but I disagree with his policies in relation to gays." Unfortunately, they're still giving him four more years to push his bigotry and hatred on the American public and that, to me, is what I see as those voters enabling him by allowing him to spew his rhetoric. They're not oblivious to that fact, so I don't buy into their excuses and never will. And I'm sure those in Cow Poke, Alabama are just absolutely terrified that Al Qaeda is going to attack them, so they had to vote for Bush because he'd keep them safe. :rolleyes:

My Dad voted for Bush. I know that he cares about me and he doesn't want people to discriminate against me, but he hated Kerry and thought Bush had good economic plans. :shrug:

He only voted for Bush because of his economic plans? How does he feel about those economic plans now? :laugh: I understand what you're saying, but this isn't something that I can easily brush off as people simply voting for someone who has "good" economic or foreign policies. This is a man with an organized coalition comprised of the religious right that is trying to deprive members of our society of their rights and equality. It's vile. Let's deprive Bush voters of the right to marry and see how it goes.

Generally, it's not a good feeling to think that the majority of the country doesn't give a rat's ass about gay people, but that is what you're saying. :shrug: I don't know. I've thought about this issue until I couldn't think about it anymore many times. I pretty much always have to give up and start thinking about something like why there's that weird skipping noise right at the beginning of "Only Over You" on the Mirage album. Thinking about stuff like that helps me keep my sanity. :laugh:

If the majority of this country gave a rats ass about gay people, they'd show it. Too bad they don't and want to bask in the rights they enjoy that those of a different sexuality don't have the luxury to enjoy. How many states banned gay marriage on November 2nd, 2004? Many. How often does gay rights legislation get shot down? Quite often. How many people are comfortable calling someone a "faggot" or some other vile name, yet won't dare call a black person a "nigger" or someone of Spanish descent a "spic"? Lots. American society cultivates and nurtures negative attitudes towards homosexuality and it's rather revolting. But what can one expect from a country that only gave women the right to vote in the last century?

[GateandGarden]

I can't really disagree with what you've said, diss, but I'm just waiting for someone else to do so, since it seems inevitable. :laugh:

And check your pms in a sec.

[strandinthewind]

. . . and felt that gay men and women deserved equality in the workplace; no one can say the same in regards to this bastard administration.

While I do not like W, I cannot say he has sought any discrim. in the work place in the sense that he has not sponsored a law that says "we do not hire gay people." In fact, W purposefully has left standing Clinton's Federal Executive Order, which has the effect of law, that makes it illegal to discrim. against these people in the Federal workplace. So, with all due respect, you are incorrect here and while it gives me happiness to point it out to you :p - that does not make Bush any less of an a$$hole :cool:

Edit - for clarity and to present a counter point

I fully realize the reiligious right owns W and they vehemently want to repeal Fed Exec. Order 13152 and they work within W's regime to push the limits of this Order. But, the Bush adminsitration has bucked them and reasserted the Order at every turn I have heard of and that is to their credit though they (the religious right) are hypocritical asses and W is only a little better IMO. Yet, and to W's credit, he does not discrimminate against gays and lesbians in the Fed. workplace and has kept that law viable.

[The Tower]

Now, the idea that all of those who voted for Bush don't give a rat's ass about all the civilians dying is quite a controversial assertion, and I'm sure there are Ledgies who voted for Bush who would beg to differ.
They can beg to differ all they want. Facts are facts. The Bush administration created and orchestrated the invasion of Iraq which directly caused the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people. Voting for him during the reelection was an affirmation of that action. That's it. One always has the option of not voting if reality is too distasteful.

Nevertheless, I say that to vote for someone and to think someone's a wonderful, tolerant, accepting, morally sound, etc. person are two very different things.
I don't. Voting is an action that says you support that candidate and the platform he or she has put forward. That's enough of a step for me.

I realize the outcome is the same, though.
Bingo!

We had a death in my family fairly recently, and it was someone who had lived a long life. But knowing that did not make it any easier for many of my family members. Granted, it was not as traumatic as it was a few years ago when an uncle of mine died young and completely unexpectedly, but it was still awfully difficult. It's still difficult. In some ways, for some of my family members, it will always be difficult, even though life goes on.
Both of my grandmas died within the last decade. I loved them both very much, but it wasn't traumatic to realize their deaths. I very rarely talk to members of my family- not for because of divisive reasons, just cuz my family is "WASP Divorced". Anyways, I have the same feelings towards my dead grandmas as I do my family members that I don't speak to- for me, they're all gone and I have my memories of them.

Some of our differences may stem from the fact that to me, you appear to have more emotional strength than I do, and that may be true. It's very good to have; maybe I'll pick some up one of these days. :laugh:
Well, it's a nice compliment. However, I wouldn't attribute my attitudes toward "emotional strength". Growing up as the last of five children in a family struggling to deal with the dissolution of a twenty-five year old marriage left me alone to raise myself. I had to learn a lot of things "the hard way". My emotional strength comes from knowing my reality and coping with the scars from my past. Believe me, I am a huge romantic and really gorgeous, emotional things (like Stevie's HAEWAFY at Woodstock thingy and Gypsy from the AHI benefit) can have me bawling in a second. With that said, death is pretty much uncontrollable and inevitable so I try not to be affected by it.

Thanks for engaging me and not being offended by the things I've said.
As I once said to Jason, honey- you could never offend me.

I'd say that anyone who voted for Bush doesn't care enough about GLBT's to prevent active discrimination against them. If people truly cared and thought they should be treated better, they wouldn't have cast a vote for Shrubya. Simple as that.
Absolute truth. :nod:

If the majority of this country gave a rats ass about gay people, they'd show it. Too bad they don't and want to bask in the rights they enjoy that those of a different sexuality don't have the luxury to enjoy.

American society cultivates and nurtures negative attitudes towards homosexuality and it's rather revolting. But what can one expect from a country that only gave women the right to vote in the last century?
The cultivating and nurturing part is TRULY revolting. To witness parents instilling, encouraging, and validating homophobia in their young children is unbearable to me.

Yet, and to W's credit, he does not discrimminate against gays and lesbians in the Fed. workplace and has kept that law viable.
Dubya doesn't get credit for ****. Standing in front of the American public and stating the desire to amend the constitution to discriminate against homosexuals automatically trumps and invalidates any of that piddly crap.

[strandinthewind]

. . Dubya doesn't get credit for ****. Standing in front of the American public and stating the desire to amend the constitution to discriminate against homosexuals automatically trumps and invalidates any of that piddly crap.

I call it like a I see and that was a good thing that he did not repeal that. I am sure several hundred thousand Federal workers and their families would agree with me and disagree with you regarding the significance of that :shrug:

But, I know I know - giving credit to W for any thing is never allowed - thus the blind liberal left and, for that matter, the blind religious conservative right status quo.

Edit - once again, W is an a$$ and has been horrible for this country. I do not think pointing out that he did not repeal that Order negates this.

[strandinthewind]

. . . As I once said to Jason, honey- you could never offend me . . .

Well, there was that one time in the hotel room with that python and a jar of honey - but hey even I was shocked at that one :cool:

[The Tower]

I call it like a I see and that was a good thing that he did not repeal that. I am sure several hundred thousand Federal workers and their families would agree with me and disagree with you regarding the significance of that :shrug:
Sure, it's nice that they get to keep their jobs- but Dubya didn't initiate that protection, he just left it alone- which required oh so much of his time and attention. Again, he doesn't get credit for ****.

But, I know I know - giving credit to W for any thing is never allowed - thus the blind liberal left and, for that matter, the blind religious conservative right status quo.
Yadda, yadda, yadda.... We've heard it before. It isn't about being "blind", it's the simple fact that Dubya has proven beyond the shadow of doubt that he cannot be trusted in any manner. So, "the door is shut" so to speak.

Edit - once again, W is an a$$ and has been horrible for this country. I do not think pointing out that he did not repeal that Order negates this.
I think it's nice that you can be nice, but I cannot be nice. He's done too much.

Well, there was that one time in the hotel room with that python and a jar of honey - but hey even I was shocked at that one
Can't we keep our personal fun to ourselves, dear? :laugh: :xoxo:

[dissention]

While I do not like W, I cannot say he has sought any discrim. in the work place in the sense that he has not sponsored a law that says "we do not hire gay people." In fact, W purposefully has left standing Clinton's Federal Executive Order, which has the effect of law, that makes it illegal to discrim. against these people in the Federal workplace. So, with all due respect, you are incorrect here and while it gives me happiness to point it out to you :p - that does not make Bush any less of an a$$hole :cool:

Edit - for clarity and to present a counter point

I fully realize the reiligious right owns W and they vehemently want to repeal Fed Exec. Order 13152 and they work within W's regime to push the limits of this Order. But, the Bush adminsitration has bucked them and reasserted the Order at every turn I have heard of and that is to their credit though they (the religious right) are hypocritical asses and W is only a little better IMO. Yet, and to W's credit, he does not discrimminate against gays and lesbians in the Fed. workplace and has kept that law viable.

Last time I checked, Bush only reinstated the federal information on GLBT in '04 that he and his cronies removed after his adminstration came under fire from civil rights groups. I would hardly commend him or his administration for it. Nominating Gonzales alone shows their true colors.

[GateandGarden]

Well, there was that one time in the hotel room with that python and a jar of honey - but hey even I was shocked at that one :cool::lol::lol:

[strandinthewind]

Last time I checked, Bush only reinstated the federal information on GLBT in '04 that he and his cronies removed after his adminstration came under fire from civil rights groups. I would hardly commend him or his administration for it. Nominating Gonzales alone shows their true colors.

W never sought to repeal the Order - at least to my knowledge.

What happened was there were, I think, two instances of Agencies or other other gov. entities removing the lang. in the Order. These Agencies did not and would not seek the Pres.' approval before doing this. They do, however, usually seek the advice of their lawyers, who would have to tell the person (who usually is not the top dog) that what they are doing violates the Order and is illegal. But, that is diff. than W himself seeking to remove the lang. In the end, W stood by his guns and the Order, which can only be regarded as a good thing. He still, though, is a creep despite that good act.