The Pope has died

[Janet]

Now we know he is at least going to Heaven.

RIP

[amber]

Blessings to him. :angel:

[77Rumours77]

Very very sad. :(
Well he is with God now and happy! :angel:
Prayers go out.

[LikeAWillow]

I'm a Catholic, not really practicing, but this is still upsetting for me. At least we know that he's in a better place, and our thoughts and prayers are with him. :angel:

~Marissa~

[sodascouts]

He will indeed Rest In Peace.

[estranged4life]

he is in heaven now.

We were planting flowers from my Mother's funeral today in our yard and I just turned the TV on and saw the news.

RIP John Paul II

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ave Maria, gratia plena,
dominus tecum;
benedicta tu in mulieribus
et benedictus, fructus, ventris tui, Jesu.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,
ora pro nobis, peccatoribus;
nunc et in hora mortis nostrae,
Amen.

Rest In Peace Papas! We will miss you!

[DrummerDeanna]

I was actually at the Catholic main Parish in town - doing a pre-Pope dying press conference.....no one knew....then I went home to eat lunch and found out he'd died...

So I'm at work now....very sad - lots of people are truly saddened by this news :distress:

At least he will no longer suffer.

[WelshWitchPMD]

I was raised Catholic but I do not practice. I still feel sad in a way. He is off to a better place. May he rest in peace. :angel:

[wondergirl9847]

Wow, just horrid news within the past week or so. RIP Pope John Paul. Enjoy your young, pain-free body!

[strandinthewind]

As Christ taught us to pray:

Abwû d'bwaschmâja
Nethkâdasch schmach
Têtê malkuthach.
Nehwê tzevjânach aikâna d'bwaschmâja af b'arha.
Hawvlân lachma d'sûnkanân jaomâna.
Waschboklân chaubên wachtahên aikâna daf chnân schwoken l'chaijabên.
Wela tachlân l'nesjun,
ela patzân min bischa.
Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l'ahlâm almîn.

Amên.

[CreepingDeath]

Now we know he is at least going to Heaven.

Yes indeed. May he rest in peace.

[Stephanie]

Even though I am not catholic, I am very sad. Rest in peace, John Paul II.

[catinthedark]

I am not Catholic, but I am relieved his suffering has ended, and I do hope he is at peace.

[Hawkeye]

so who's the pope now. the world is currently Popeless at the moment, and there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency to replace him. It would seem to me that that would something the church would have lined up years before a pope dies. Especially how badly ailing Jon Paul was in his last few years.

[catinthedark]

so who's the pope now. the world is currently Popeless at the moment, and there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency to replace him. It would seem to me that that would something the church would have lined up years before a pope dies. Especially how badly ailing Jon Paul was in his last few years.

There is reems of protocol attached to this. A new pope cannot be selected before the sitting pope dies, or abdicates. From Reuters:

++ The conclave to elect a new pope starts in the Vatican's
Sistine Chapel between 15 and 20 days after the death. The
cardinals, who are confined to the Vatican for the duration of
the conclave, decide the exact day. For the first time, they
will not live in the Chapel or nearby rooms in the Vatican
Museum, but in a new residence on Vatican grounds.
++ There are 117 cardinals under the age of 80 and so
eligible to vote. Only two were not appointed by John Paul II. A
majority of at least two-thirds plus one is required to elect
the new pope. When the conclave has elected a pope, he is asked
if he accepts and which name he wishes to take. Once this is
done, he dons papal vestments -- tailors keep several sizes
ready -- and sits on a throne in the Sistine Chapel to receive
the other cardinals who file up to pay homage and pledge
obedience.
++ The world will know a pope has been elected when an
official burns the paper ballots with special chemicals to make
white smoke pour out of the chapel's chimney. They use other
chemicals to make black smoke indicating an inconclusive vote.
++ Soon afterwards, the dean of the College of Cardinals
steps on to the central balcony of St Peter's Basilica to
announce to the crowds in the square "Habemus Papam" (We have a
Pope). The new pope then appears in his papal robes and gives
the crowd his blessing.

[WelshWitchPMD]

I was listening to Art Bell last night for a little while before I fell asleep. There were a few callers that believed that The Pope did not die but was in exile. :rolleyes: Can you believe that? Art Bell disagreed with these callers.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I can't believe they are showing his body all over the internet and on TV. :shrug: I don't want to see it.

[ShamHy89]

I can't believe they are showing his body all over the internet and on TV.
I can. It's the tradition to display it and they've been showing the bodies of popes ever since photography and TV were invented. After all the ante mortem news coverage, it doesn't surprise me.

Shamus

[Enchanted_Stevi]

OK my mom works at a church rectory and the day befroe he died the news said the pope died and so the church rang the bells and then later that night they said he was alive. So the next day mom goes into work and says well the pope died...again...lol

[Serrart]

so who's the pope now. the world is currently Popeless at the moment, and there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency to replace him. It would seem to me that that would something the church would have lined up years before a pope dies. Especially how badly ailing Jon Paul was in his last few years.

Actually there's a big urgency to have a new Pope, because now all the people in charge in Vatican haven't any power except five cardinals who can bring on only the everyday activities and organize the conclave. But there are rules and times to respect. Moreover 117 cardinals (plus those who are over 80 and wouldn't vote but can partecipate to the nine days of cerimonies for John Paul II) have to arrive in Rome. Anyway the funeral would be on thursday, and 15 days after it the conclave sessions will start.

Romy

[golddustwoman77]

Although I am not Catholic, I have a great respect for the Pope, especially this Pope. Pope John Paul II was such a wonderful man who preached tolerence of all cultures, peace/end to war, uniting all religions, etc. He reached out to EVERYONE. My hope and prayer is that the next Pope will have the same ideals and hopes for all the world, and he will continue to reach out across all cultures and religions and continue the work that Pope John Paul II started and carried on for so many years. May he rest in peace sitting at the right hand of God for eternity. :angel:

[catinthedark]

He reached out to EVERYONE.

Well, unless you were a woman who wanted to be seen as an equal in the Catholic Church - or gay.

My hope and prayer is that the next Pope will have the same ideals and hopes for all the world, and he will continue to reach out across all cultures and religions and continue the work that Pope John Paul II started and carried on for so many years.

I hope the next pope sees the sense in promoting the use of condoms in the fight against the spread of AIDS.

I hope the next pope sees women as equals, and quite capable of leading a congregation, as have so many other religions.

I hope the next pope sees the advances that could be made for the health and well being of mankind through stem cell research.

I hope the next pope understands that women should have the right to choice, even if he doesn't agree with what they might choose.

[wondergirl9847]

There were a few callers that believed that The Pope did not die but was in exile. :rolleyes:

He's having lunch with Elvis in Kalamazoo. LOL

[golddustwoman77]

Well, unless you were a woman who wanted to be seen as an equal in the Catholic Church - or gay.



I hope the next pope sees the sense in promoting the use of condoms in the fight against the spread of AIDS.

I hope the next pope sees women as equals, and quite capable of leading a congregation, as have so many other religions.

I hope the next pope sees the advances that could be made for the health and well being of mankind through stem cell research.

I hope the next pope understands that women should have the right to choice, even if he doesn't agree with what they might choose.


I do agree with you on your points. My point was that he was much better than previous Popes in the department of reaching out to non-Catholics and other cultures. He was by no means perfect but better. Of course, it is the Catholic church's belief that you shouldn't use birth control of any kind. Therefore, he was upholding his church's beliefs. The same could be said for the Gay issue. I guess I didn't represent myself as clearly as I should have in my previous post.

As I stated in my previous post, I'm not Catholic, and I don't hold all the Pope's views. I believe birth control/disease control should be pushed for the sake of mankind. The idea that you shouldn't use contraceptives is quite outdated and not suitable for this day and age when sex can harm and possibly kill. As it is my belief that people who love each other should be able to marry no matter what their sex. My definition of marriage is: two people who love each other, want to be life partners, and share the ups and downs of their lives. I hope that Americans will quit dividing people and work toward uniting them. Fighting against gay rights is like a form of racism, except it isn't about race it is about who you love and who you are. I just hope I will live to see that change. I want an America where every one is free to be who they are without fear of persecution.

Therefore, I will have to disagree with the Pope on these issues as well, but aside from those issues, he did do many good things: call for peace/end to war, tried to unite all religious groups, end Communism, etc. He should be championed for those things, because no other Pope before him had done those things, especially on such a large scale. I will say that I wish the same things you do for the next Pope, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Therefore, I will hope that the next Pope will continue to champion uniting all cultures, all religions, ending war/bring peace, and be people-friendly, instead of taking a step backward. Also, we can pray for a step FORWARD.

[skcin]

I can't believe they are showing his body all over the internet and on TV. :shrug: I don't want to see it.


Me neither. Ick. I hate dead bodies. Wakes creep me out too. :( I either start giggling like a fool (not at the casket or anything, but before I go it I'm in hysterics for some bizarre reason) or staring at the body waiting for it to move. :shocked:

The place I used to work was a Catholic agency connected with one of the largest churches in the Buffalo area. The guy who built the church (Father Nelson Baker) is up for sainthood. A few years ago, they decided to move his body from the cemetery next door into a crypt in the church itself - you know, cuz it's easier to pray for his sainthood if he's in the building instead of next to it, duh. So they dug the man up & poked around at his body for a while (apparently they took some vials of blood from him when he died in the 30's & they were still liquid, which is apparently a miracle...)

Anyhoo, I was taking a patient on an appointment & we saw them wheeling the casket out of the morgue to go to the basilica. The kid was like "OMG, is that a dead body?" Pretty morbid, if you ask me.

[DrummerDeanna]

I hope the next pope sees the sense in promoting the use of condoms in the fight against the spread of AIDS.

Me too - but it's doubtful with the Catholic churchs archaic view of birth control...:distress:


I hope the next pope sees women as equals, and quite capable of leading a congregation, as have so many other religions. ME TOO! But again, sort of doubtful - but they're been talking a lot about whether this change will mean that the church can start moving in a more progressive manner....somehow I doubt it - but again, it's sticking to it's archaic view of women's place in the church


I hope the next pope sees the advances that could be made for the health and well being of mankind through stem cell research.
Oh that one won't happen...sad but true


I hope the next pope understands that women should have the right to choice, even if he doesn't agree with what they might choose.
Nor will this one :distress:

I think that though the church is capable of changing some things - the women thing is more likely to happen - but their stance on abortion and stem cell research? I don't see that budging at all :distress:

[strandinthewind]

The Catholic Chruch lives in this area of reality that makes it almost quaint. For example, I know many "cafeteria Catholics" who just take what they perceive as good (spititual guidance, etc.) and just accept that this is an institution that in the last ten years apologized for Joan of Ark :eek:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, unless you were a woman who wanted to be seen as an equal in the Catholic Church - or gay.



I hope the next pope sees the sense in promoting the use of condoms in the fight against the spread of AIDS.

I hope the next pope sees women as equals, and quite capable of leading a congregation, as have so many other religions.

I hope the next pope sees the advances that could be made for the health and well being of mankind through stem cell research.

I hope the next pope understands that women should have the right to choice, even if he doesn't agree with what they might choose.

oh no! If these things were to ever happen...I'd sure start to wonder if the world really was coming to an end...sorry these things aren't going to happen in the Catholic Church and for that I'm glad! Perhaps in smaller protestant sects...but not in the Catholic Church.

Actually so I don't get in trouble let me restate some things...lol

Women are important and can do a lot with in the church...they can become nuns...minister and be eucharistic ministers! HELLO...Who do we hold higher than any other human being that has ever walked the face of the earth (except Jesus, but him being God/Man doesn't count!)...The Virgin Mary!!!

The Catholic Church does support Stem Cell Research...just not EMBRYONIC Stem Cell Research.

Because we as catholics believe that every human being, from the moment of conception has a soul and a right to life, you can pretty much draw your own conclusions about what that means about abortion!

Condoms...sorry...no way! Abstinence...call it corny if you wish!

[DrummerDeanna]

oh no! If these things were to ever happen...I'd sure start to wonder if the world really was coming to an end...sorry these things aren't going to happen in the Catholic Church and for that I'm glad! Perhaps in smaller protestant sects...but not in the Catholic Church.

Actually so I don't get in trouble let me restate some things...lol

Women are important and can do a lot with in the church...they can become nuns...minister and be eucharistic ministers! HELLO...Who do we hold higher than any other human being that has ever walked the face of the earth (except Jesus, but him being God/Man doesn't count!)...The Virgin Mary!!!

The Catholic Church does support Stem Cell Research...just not EMBRYONIC Stem Cell Research.

Because we as catholics believe that every human being, from the moment of conception has a soul and a right to life, you can pretty much draw your own conclusions about what that means about abortion!

Condoms...sorry...no way! Abstinence...call it corny if you wish!

So I guess it's not just the Vatican who is behind the times...

Abstinence? NOT WORKING!!!

And women could be capable priests and need to be held to a higher regard by the Catholic church...

---------


Strand - so am I considered a Cafeteria Catholic? I've never heard that before..

I basically just am because

A) I was raised that way
B) I like the social justice teachings
C) I actually like the ritual of it

lol...I don't hold the "Vatican Law" as laws because they are man made and therefore well ya know...:)

I know I'm not a devout scary following blindly and accepting all the church teaches Catholic - :D

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I know I'm not a devout scary following blindly and accepting all the church teaches Catholic - :D

Well if you consider your fellow Catholics "blind" and "scary" then why do you even bother with the religion. Get out now...we're all crazy anyways...and we aim to take over the world!!! LOL

[GypsySorcerer]

So I guess it's not just the Vatican who is behind the times...

Abstinence? NOT WORKING!!!

And women could be capable priests and need to be held to a higher regard by the Catholic church...

---------


Strand - so am I considered a Cafeteria Catholic? I've never heard that before..

I basically just am because

A) I was raised that way
B) I like the social justice teachings
C) I actually like the ritual of it

lol...I don't hold the "Vatican Law" as laws because they are man made and therefore well ya know...:)

I know I'm not a devout scary following blindly and accepting all the church teaches Catholic - :D

I've heard "Cafeteria Catholic" a lot. Actually, I think the term can be applied to any belief system/ideology.

I am not a member of the Catholic Church, but I do attend Mass sometimes. It is by far my favorite worship service. I also like many of their traditions (Saints, Advent, etc) which are just not found in many Protestant churches, save the Episcopalians.

[DrummerDeanna]

Well if you consider your fellow Catholics "blind" and "scary" then why do you even bother with the religion. Get out now...we're all crazy anyways...and we aim to take over the world!!! LOL


Um I believe I just outlined why I am Catholic - and not once did I state that ALL OTHER Catholics are blind and scary...but some are....it's a fact...

There are aslo scary Muslims, jews, atheists etc...you can't get away from the crazies unfortunately...

I think the Catholic Church needs forward thinking people like myself so that it can eventually change and get with the times...

I am currently looking for a different religion though - one that IS more in touch with reality and the world....good luck to me :D :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . Strand - so am I considered a Cafeteria Catholic? I've never heard that before..

I basically just am because

A) I was raised that way
B) I like the social justice teachings
C) I actually like the ritual of it

lol...I don't hold the "Vatican Law" as laws because they are man made and therefore well ya know...:)

I know I'm not a devout scary following blindly and accepting all the church teaches Catholic - :D

I meant no disrespect by it :xoxo: I was just using that image as a way of illustrating my point that I know of no Catholic that follows every teaching of the Church. They, instead use the Church as a basic guide to live their life. I am totally okay with that because, as I mentioned, relatively few really takes the Church as 100% serious. In fact, it is pretty hard to do in today's world and IMO it is unnecessary. And, the Chruch will endure because people realize that and sort of threat it like a much loved elderly grandparent who has great advice but that advice is not always followed :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Um I believe I just outlined why I am Catholic - and not once did I state that ALL OTHER Catholics are blind and scary...but some are....it's a fact...

There are aslo scary Muslims, jews, atheists etc...you can't get away from the crazies unfortunately...

I think the Catholic Church needs forward thinking people like myself so that it can eventually change and get with the times...

I am currently looking for a different religion though - one that IS more in touch with reality and the world....good luck to me :D :laugh:

But, even in a new religion, odds are you would not accept all of its teachings. How many Catholics are against abortion, the death penalty, and stem cell research and are for no birth control whatsoever. I submit very very few. So, if you like in general Catholocism - I stay stick with it. It has a world of good to offer though it has done evil acts like playing hide the pedophile to avoid prosecution :eek:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Um I believe I just outlined why I am Catholic - and not once did I state that ALL OTHER Catholics are blind and scary...but some are....it's a fact...

There are aslo scary Muslims, jews, atheists etc...you can't get away from the crazies unfortunately...

I think the Catholic Church needs forward thinking people like myself so that it can eventually change and get with the times...

I am currently looking for a different religion though - one that IS more in touch with reality and the world....good luck to me :D :laugh:

But that's why I love being Catholic, the church refuses and is not going to change based on the secular society, especially that of America! Who would want to be a part of a religion that changes its beliefs and values just because its "with the times" and it's "what everyone else is doing". I don't see that as the "Jesus" thing to do. Just my observation. :)

[dissention]

But that's why I love being Catholic, the church refuses and is not going to change based on the secular society, especially that of America! Who would want to be a part of a religion that changes its beliefs and values just because its "with the times" and it's "what everyone else is doing". I don't see that as the "Jesus" thing to do. Just my observation. :)

Show your signature to your fellow parishioners and I bet they'll question your sexuality. :o

And all because of the man...that got away...

[GypsySorcerer]

But that's why I love being Catholic, the church refuses and is not going to change based on the secular society, especially that of America! Who would want to be a part of a religion that changes its beliefs and values just because its "with the times" and it's "what everyone else is doing". I don't see that as the "Jesus" thing to do. Just my observation. :)

I think change is positive. The CC, just like every other Institution, was shaped by context and those in power. I mean, Christianity would be totally different had the Gnostic movement not been snuffed out by the Pauline line. :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

I meant no disrespect by it :xoxo: I was just using that image as a way of illustrating my point that I know of no Catholic that follows every teaching of the Church. They, instead use the Church as a basic guide to live their life. I am totally okay with that because, as I mentioned, relatively few really takes the Church as 100% serious. In fact, it is pretty hard to do in today's world and IMO it is unnecessary. And, the Chruch will endure because people realize that and sort of threat it like a much loved elderly grandparent who has great advice but that advice is not always followed :shrug:


I didn't take it as disrespectful - I'd just never heard the term before...

But what you described...I'm totally at Cafeteria Catholic :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

I think change is positive. The CC, just like every other Institution, was shaped by context and those in power. I mean, Christianity would be totally different had the Gnostic movement not been snuffed out by the Pauline line. :shrug:


:nod: Change is good - because the world is an ever-changing place...

And in fact the church HAS changed with the times - just not as fast as the time lol....

[GypsySorcerer]

:nod: Change is good - because the world is an ever-changing place...

And in fact the church HAS changed with the times - just not as fast as the time lol....


I actually expect major changes within 50 years. I have no evidence for this; 'tis just my opinion. :)

[strandinthewind]

I think change is positive. The CC, just like every other Institution, was shaped by context and those in power. I mean, Christianity would be totally different had the Gnostic movement not been snuffed out by the Pauline line. :shrug:

Yep - it is and continues to be. I hope the Church will see that science, which I believe is divinely inspired, is illuminating mysteries once thought to be evil by the Church much in the way that scientists in the Enlightment and other eras were persecuted as heretics for saying things like the earth revolves around the sun, which we know now to be 100% true and not heretical in nature.

Anyway - here is a site that espouses many Catholic beliefs. I dare say that if we name five people we know between all of us who actually do all of this every day, we will be doing great.

Catholic Facts and General Knowledge

Catholic Belief
I. To gain the happiness of heaven we must know, love, and serve God in this world. Man must know, love and serve God in a supernatural manner in order to gain happiness of heaven. Man is raised to the supernatural order only by grace, a free gift of God.

II. We learn to know, love, and serve God from Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who teaches us through the Catholic Church.

III. In order to be saved, all persons who have attained the use of reason must believe explicitly that God exist and that he rewards the good and punishes the wicked; in practice they must also believe in the mysteries of the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation.

IV. By the Blessed Trinity we mean one and the same God in three divine persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

V. By the Incarnation is meant that the Son of God, retaining His divine nature, took to Himself a human nature, that is, a body and soul like ours.

VI. The Church is the congregation of all baptized persons united in the same true faith, the same sacrifice, and the same sacraments, under the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff and the bishops in communion with him.

VII. We find the chief truths taught by Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church in the Apostles' Creed.
The Commandments
Besides believing what God has revealed, we must keep His law.
The Two Great Commandments

that contain the whole law of God are:

You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole mind, and with your whole strength; you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

To love God, our neighbor, and ourselves, we must keep the commandments of God and of the Church, and perform the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

The Ten Commandments of God
I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Lord's day
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
You shall not covet you neighbor's goods.

The Chief Commandments or Laws, of the Church
To assist at Mass on all Sundays and holy days of obligation.
To fast and abstain on the days appointed.
To confess our sins at least once a year.
To receive Holy Communion during the Easter time.
To contribute to the support of the Church.
To observe the laws of the Church concerning marriage.

http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/beliefs.php

[dissention]

But that's why I love being Catholic, the church refuses and is not going to change based on the secular society, especially that of America! Who would want to be a part of a religion that changes its beliefs and values just because its "with the times" and it's "what everyone else is doing". I don't see that as the "Jesus" thing to do. Just my observation. :)

For the life of me, I can't comprehend this statement, darling. How could anyone be happy that such an institution remains stagnant while society progresses? If your church doesn't learn to adapt and change their ways based on the directions that society moves to, the fact of the matter is that it will become even more archaic than it already is and will become even less pertinent. It will only damage your religion in the long run.

[DrummerDeanna]

For the life of me, I can't comprehend this statement, darling. How could anyone be happy that such an institution remains stagnant while society progresses? If your church doesn't learn to adapt and change their ways based on the directions that society moves to, the fact of the matter is that it will become even more archaic than it already is and will become even less pertinent. It will only damage your religion in the long run.


:nod: :nod: Church attendence has already been on a steep decline for years...it has long been thought that the Catholic Church is a dying entity...

[strandinthewind]

:nod: :nod: Church attendence has already been on a steep decline for years...it has long been thought that the Catholic Church is a dying entity...

I would love to know the correlation between the decline in attendence in the RCC and any rise in attendence in other faiths, including non Christian faiths. I think it would be an interesting study.

[dissention]

:nod: :nod: Church attendence has already been on a steep decline for years...it has long been thought that the Catholic Church is a dying entity...

Well, didn't they just concede the fact that the Earth isn't flat in the eighties? :laugh:

Or am I thinking of something else?

[strandinthewind]

Well, didn't they just concede the fact that the Earth isn't flat in the eighties? :laugh:

Or am I thinking of something else?

Wasn't it for killing Joan of Ark?

Who knows - but the point is the Church is archaic that it is like some older beloved relative every one listens to and says "well isn't that sweet" and then they ignore.

[GypsySorcerer]

I would love to know the correlation between the decline in attendence in the RCC and any rise in attendence in other faiths, including non Christian faiths. I think it would be an interesting study.

The latest figures I have seen show that the number of people identifying themselves as Roman Catholic are holding relatively steady (Note, this is not church attendance.) People identifying themselves as Protestants are decreasing. People practicing Buddhism, Islam, Wicca, etc are also increasing, and a growing number of people are just calling themsleves "Christian," with no denomination given.


Of course, people claiming to follow a religion and actually practicing it are two different things.

I think this study came out 6-8 months ago.

[strandinthewind]

The latest figures I have seen show that the number of people identifying themselves as Roman Catholic are holding relatively steady (Note, this is not church attendance.) People identifying themselves as Protestants are decreasing. People practicing Buddhism, Islam, Wicca, etc are also increasing, and a growing number of people are just calling themsleves "Christian," with no denomination given.


Of course, people claiming to follow a religion and actually practicing it are two different things.

I think this study came out 6-8 months ago.

Very Interesting!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

I personally think many churchgoers are doing it for the kids' sake. I know many of these people who are really not churchgoers until they have kids. In fact, I was rather surprised that lightening did not strike a few of them when they darkened the Church door :laugh:

But, I think the vast majority of people consider themselves spiritual on some level but just recognize the hypocrisy of the RCC and other organized religions.

[DrummerDeanna]

The latest figures I have seen show that the number of people identifying themselves as Roman Catholic are holding relatively steady (Note, this is not church attendance.) People identifying themselves as Protestants are decreasing. People practicing Buddhism, Islam, Wicca, etc are also increasing, and a growing number of people are just calling themsleves "Christian," with no denomination given.


Of course, people claiming to follow a religion and actually practicing it are two different things.

I think this study came out 6-8 months ago.

I maintain that one of the biggest religions in the US is: "I was raised Catholic" lol...I hear that ALL the time - almost everyone I work with was raised Catholic but no longer practice.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Show your signature to your fellow parishioners and I bet they'll question your sexuality. :o

And all because of the man...that got away...

That was rude! I know that Joots is a gay icon (not as big as she used to be back in the day) but it doesn't bother me. I love the entertainers who i like and am not going to fall into a simple set of stereotypes!

Judy rocks forever!

[DrummerDeanna]

But, I think the vast majority of people consider themselves spiritual on some level but just recognize the hypocrisy of the RCC and other organized religions.

And that's a somewhat difficult thing to come to terms with with one's self.

I constantly ask myself the question, "by simply going to a Catholic church and identifying myself as Catholic am I, in a way, condoning their heinous actions of the past and perhaps present?" it's a tough question...

But I remind myself that there are good aspects of it as well...:nod:

[dissention]

That was rude! I know that Joots is a gay icon (not as big as she used to be back in the day) but it doesn't bother me. I love the entertainers who i like and am not going to fall into a simple set of stereotypes!

Judy rocks forever!

I never said you were going to fall into a "stereotype," just that you have some rather large gay icons in your signature. :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

I maintain that one of the biggest religions in the US is: "I was raised Catholic" lol...I hear that ALL the time - almost everyone I work with was raised Catholic but no longer practice.

Yep. My grandmother was baptized Catholic but hasn't attended since then. :D

[amber]

That was rude! I know that Joots is a gay icon (not as big as she used to be back in the day) but it doesn't bother me. I love the entertainers who i like and am not going to fall into a simple set of stereotypes!

Judy rocks forever!
Hmm, I don't think it's very rude to say someone's sig is as gay as Richard Simmons on the Ellen show. :shrug: But then, I'm not homophobic....

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I never said you were going to fall into a "stereotype," just that you have some rather large gay icons in your signature. :laugh:

LOL..you crack me up!

Actually Junie and Annie aren't big gay icons...

but on that...I guess any older movie star could be considered a "gay" icon...lol

oh btw...was it you who likes Chita Rivera (sp?)? Because I made some great screen caps from when she was on The Judy Garland Show in the 60's! She looked amazing!

[GateandGarden]

For the life of me, I can't comprehend this statement, darling. How could anyone be happy that such an institution remains stagnant while society progresses? If your church doesn't learn to adapt and change their ways based on the directions that society moves to, the fact of the matter is that it will become even more archaic than it already is and will become even less pertinent. It will only damage your religion in the long run.So true. :nod: It confuses me when people think that change, as a general concept, is a bad thing. The church does acknowledge that humans are flawed, so why would it assume that we got everything right the first time? We have a long way to go. I can't really see the benefits of any institution that is not open to change in the least. :shrug:

And his sig is kind of gay. I wondered if someone was going to say that. :laugh::lol:

[GypsySorcerer]

And that's a somewhat difficult thing to come to terms with with one's self.

I constantly ask myself the question, "by simply going to a Catholic church and identifying myself as Catholic am I, in a way, condoning their heinous actions of the past and perhaps present?" it's a tough question...

But I remind myself that there are good aspects of it as well...:nod:

I've struggled with that too, and with organized religion in general. I definitely understand why people have disdain for religion. I do think that every institution has committed atrocities and evil. Even Science has committed evil in the name of research and knowledge. So, I guess it just comes down to the fact we live in an imperfect world.

[dissention]

LOL..you crack me up!

Actually Junie and Annie aren't big gay icons...

but on that...I guess any older movie star could be considered a "gay" icon...lol

Ann Miller?! She sure is!

[dissention]

oh btw...was it you who likes Chita Rivera (sp?)? Because I made some great screen caps from when she was on The Judy Garland Show in the 60's! She looked amazing!

Yes, I love Chita Rivera. Woman looks damn fine for her age. :nod: Her and Eartha Kitt are ageless.

[GypsySorcerer]

Yes, I love Chita Rivera. Woman looks damn fine for her age. :nod: Her and Eartha Kitt are ageless.


Ah, I <3 Eartha Kitt.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ann Miller?! She sure is!

oh well! lol...what can I say...They have great taste. Guess Im metro!

[DrummerDeanna]

Yes, I love Chita Rivera. Woman looks damn fine for her age. :nod: Her and Eartha Kitt are ageless.


Eartha Kitt scares the bejeezus outta me :eek:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Eartha Kitt scares the bejeezus outta me :eek:

same here! lol

[DrummerDeanna]

I've struggled with that too, and with organized religion in general. I definitely understand why people have disdain for religion. I do think that every institution has committed atrocities and evil. Even Science has committed evil in the name of research and knowledge. So, I guess it just comes down to the fact we live in an imperfect world.


Good point - I think I'd be hard pressed to find any organized religion that is not flawed in some way....and anway with my laziness factor I won't put that much effort into religion shopping...I like what I doing now :)

[strandinthewind]

Good point - I think I'd be hard pressed to find any organized religion that is not flawed in some way....and anway with my laziness factor I won't put that much effort into religion shopping...I like what I doing now :)

Plus, as in all religions and pretty much all groups, there are more progressive strains within Parishes. So, you could check those out I guess.

[DrummerDeanna]

Plus, as in all religions and pretty much all groups, there are more progressive strains within Parishes. So, you could check those out I guess.


ooh - Yeah I totally found one - They let women be priests, the accept EVERYONE...gay, straight, asexual lol....they're just really progressive and open..and they have a rather large congregation...

The down side? They meet at 9:30 in the morning on Sunday....how do they possibly expect me to get out of bed that early on a Sunday lol...

[amber]

ooh - Yeah I totally found one - They let women be priests, the accept EVERYONE...gay, straight, asexual lol....they're just really progressive and open..and they have a rather large congregation...

The down side? They meet at 9:30 in the morning on Sunday....how do they possibly expect me to get out of bed that early on a Sunday lol...
Yeah, I pray a lot in the church of My Bed myself.

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, I pray a lot in the church of My Bed myself.:laugh::lol::laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Oooooo - I forgot one, the Pope condemned the war in Iraq and pretty much all war. How many Catholics in America agreed or agree with him? yet, they still call themselves Catholics :shrug:

[dissention]

ooh - Yeah I totally found one - They let women be priests, the accept EVERYONE...gay, straight, asexual lol....they're just really progressive and open..and they have a rather large congregation...

The down side? They meet at 9:30 in the morning on Sunday....how do they possibly expect me to get out of bed that early on a Sunday lol...

The Scottish Episcopal church openly ordains gay clergy. They say that someone's sexuality holds no bearing on whether or not they want to become clergy, which I find pretty cool.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oooooo - I forgot one, the Pope condemned the war in Iraq and pretty much all war. How many Catholics in America agreed or agree with him? yet, they still call themselves Catholics :shrug:

Well that issue is slightly different, because in the catholic view war is not ALWAYS considered to be "evil" such as abortion which is ALWAYS considered "evil!" However, the fact that the Pope didn't agree with the war in Iraq was an opinion and not a dogma of faith that his fellow Catholics had to share.

[GateandGarden]

Well that issue is slightly different, because in the catholic view war is not ALWAYS considered to be "evil" such as abortion which is ALWAYS considered "evil!" However, the fact that the Pope didn't agree with the war in Iraq was an opinion and not a dogma of faith that his fellow Catholics had to share.How does one distinguish? :shrug: How do you know it's merely his opinion as opposed to something every member of the church is obligated to agree with?

[The Tower]

Guess Im metro!

Me, too!!!

[amber]

Me, too!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[The Tower]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Judy RAWKS!!! Hello, gorgeous!

[catinthedark]

The Scottish Episcopal church openly ordains gay clergy. They say that someone's sexuality holds no bearing on whether or not they want to become clergy, which I find pretty cool.

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

[dissention]

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

I went to Catholic school for a few some odd years and they refused to let me have my first communion because my family was Protestant (at least that's my understanding of it). I had to sit in the pews while everyone else in my class practiced getting that little piece of cardboard put on their tongues.

[GypsySorcerer]

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

That was me. I really don't consider Protestantism a religion, though. Christianity is a religion; Protestantism is a branch. Anyway, the United Church of Canada sounds wonderful. It sounds like some of our more progressive denominations of Protestantism. (Some Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.) But it sounds nothing like most Baptist churches and the church I was raised in.

[catinthedark]

That was me. I really don't consider Protestantism a religion, though. Christianity is a religion; Protestantism is a branch. Anyway, the United Church of Canada sounds wonderful. It sounds like some of our more progressive denominations of Protestantism. (Some Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.) But it sounds nothing like most Baptist churches and the church I was raised in.

Not to be argumentative (really! :) ), but Protestantism IS a religion. It is a branch of Christianity, just like Catholocism is (and Anglican, and Presbyterian, and Unitarian, and Methodist). Just because it's a branch, doesn't mean it's not a religion in its own right.

(But it is fabulously progressive; it's a very moral based religion. "One serves God by serving one another.")

[amber]

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

[catinthedark]

It's not an offshoot, but it falls under the umbrella of Christianity.

[Tango]

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

Check your church history. The original "Catholics"/"Christians" were Jews. Peter, etc.

[amber]

Check your church history. The original "Catholics"/"Christians" were Jews. Peter, etc.
I'll check. I knew. but nevertheless, catholicism was the first Christian religion besides that.

[ShamHy89]

It's not an offshoot, but it falls under the umbrella of Christianity.
The fact that it is not Catholicism (or perhaps Orthodox) means that it's necessarily an offshoot...but still Christianity nonetheless.

Shamus

[skcin]

A little off topic...wait, back on topic? Ah, who the hell knows anymore...

Did anyone else hear that Catholic tradition dictates that someone had to hit the pope on the head 3 times after he died to make sure he was actually dead? :shocked: Is this really true?

And - is it true he has not been embalmed/preserved at all yet? Won't he start to um...well...er...go bad? :o I'm sorry, but seriously - he'll be laying there for like 5 days or something.

[catinthedark]

A little off topic...wait, back on topic? Ah, who the hell knows anymore...

Did anyone else hear that Catholic tradition dictates that someone had to hit the pope on the head 3 times after he died to make sure he was actually dead? :shocked: Is this really true?

And - is it true he has not been embalmed/preserved at all yet? Won't he start to um...well...er...go bad? :o I'm sorry, but seriously - he'll be laying there for like 5 days or something.

There is an ancient tradition, from before the times that medical advances proved death to have occurred. When the pope would die, one of the archbishops or cardinals would indeed tap him three times on the head (tap, not hit! :laugh: ) with a small hammer-like tool. Then they would call out his Christian name (Karol) three times. If he didn't answer, they would accept that his soul was gone to the Creator. From what I understand, they did carry out this tradition with John Paul II.

As for embalming, yes, they would have had to have done it already. Bodies begin to decompose very quickly. Plus if you've seen him on TV lying in state, it is pretty obvious he's been preserved and made up and everything. He has that somewhat waxy, not completely natural look to him.

One interesting thing - though he will be buried under St. Peter's in the tomb with the previous popes, his heart is to be buried in his native Poland.

[DrummerDeanna]

There is an ancient tradition, from before the times that medical advances proved death to have occurred. When the pope would die, one of the archbishops or cardinals would indeed tap him three times on the head (tap, not hit! :laugh: ) with a small hammer-like tool. Then they would call out his Christian name (Karol) three times. If he didn't answer, they would accept that his soul was gone to the Creator. From what I understand, they did carry out this tradition with John Paul II.

As for embalming, yes, they would have had to have done it already. Bodies begin to decompose very quickly. Plus if you've seen him on TV lying in state, it is pretty obvious he's been preserved and made up and everything. He has that somewhat waxy, not completely natural look to him.

One interesting thing - though he will be buried under St. Peter's in the tomb with the previous popes, his heart is to be buried in his native Poland.


Really? I actually didn't think they embalmed the Pope..and that they weren't allowed to cut him open at all :shrug: This was just something I thought...so haha...whatever - I don't know where I'd heard those things...

I've learned more about the Vatican in these last few days while watching this and while reading Dan Brown's Angels and Demons than I have living my whole life as a Catholic :laugh:

[Mad4stevie]

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

This seemed to clear it up for me:


Christianity is based upon the teachings of Jesus, a Jew who lived his life in the Roman province of Palestine. Roman communications networks enabled Christianity to spread quickly throughout the Roman empire and eventually to the rest of Europe, and finally the entire globe.

As time progressed, Christianity divided into three major branches. The Roman Catholic branch of Christianity is the successor of the church established in Rome soon after Christ's death. It traces its spiritual history to the early disciples of Jesus. The Pope, or spiritual leader, traces his office's lineage back to St. Peter, the first Pope, one of Jesus' disciples. Roman Catholicism was originally predominately practiced in Ireland, Poland, France and Spain.

During the fourth century, the Roman Catholic church split and the Eastern Orthodox branch was formed.


The split was primarily a political one due to the division of the Roman Empire into western and eastern components. The two churches became officially separate in 1054. Orthodox churches are largely national, each associated with a particular country. Orthodoxy is common in Russia, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, the Ukraine, and Armenia.

The Protestant branch split from Roman Catholicism during the Reformation, a sixteenth and seventeenth century series of church reforms in doctrine and practice. This movement challenged the authority of the Pope, and became popular in Scandinavia, England, and the Netherlands. Protestantism eventually divided into many denominations which arose in response to disputes over doctrine, theology, or religious practice. Some of the large denominations today are Lutherans, Methodists and Baptists.

[catinthedark]

Thanks for that, Heather. I think you cleared it up for many of us. :xoxo:

[catinthedark]

Really? I actually didn't think they embalmed the Pope..and that they weren't allowed to cut him open at all :shrug: This was just something I thought...so haha...whatever - I don't know where I'd heard those things...

I've learned more about the Vatican in these last few days while watching this and while reading Dan Brown's Angels and Demons than I have living my whole life as a Catholic :laugh:

You know what? I had heard the "no embalming" thing, too. We were talking about it at work the other night. But I think that might have been before the time of 24 hour news coverage, and the lying in state for days, etc. etc. :laugh: Can yuo imagine if they hadn't embalmed him?? Eeeeeeeyikes! Where's that smiley holding its nose when you need it most?

I guess the Church has moved on a few of the ancient traditions. Another is the allowing of his heart to be buried seperately. I can understand JPII's desires on that one, though. I actually find that quite moving.

Now if only they could see why condoms would stop the spread of... oh, nevermind....

[strandinthewind]

You know what? I had heard the "no embalming" thing, too. We were talking about it at work the other night. But I think that might have been before the time of 24 hour news coverage, and the lying in state for days, etc. etc. :laugh: Can yuo imagine if they hadn't embalmed him?? Eeeeeeeyikes! Where's that smiley holding its nose when you need it most?

I guess the Church has moved on a few of the ancient traditions. Another is the allowing of his heart to be buried seperately. I can understand JPII's desires on that one, though. I actually find that quite moving.

Now if only they could see why condoms would stop the spread of... oh, nevermind....


Ya know I was thinking about this on the way home - a radio program got me started :laugh:

If life begins at conception, why not Baptise while the life, which has the original sin, is still in the womb. If the baby is part of the mother, than pouring water on the stomach is no different than pouring it on the baby :shrug: Yet, they do not - and that is inexplicable to me if they regard it as a life :shrug:

Anyway, that is my random thought for the day :cool: