For Those Without Kids...

[dissention]

What would you name your kid(s) if you ever had any? Which names do you love?

[DrummerDeanna]

Girls: Vivien Elaine, Louise

Boys: Jeremy, Seth :D

[wondergirl9847]

I just read part of that post on the Stevie Ledge about naming your kid Rhiannon, Sara, etc.

I thought of a kickin' name the other day, and I can't remember what it was.
:( Stupid memory. :mad: I love makin' up names because I wrote a lot of stories when I was younger and choosing names was one of my favorite things.

I love these names:

Allison
Briana
Lindsey (girl or boy. Hehe ;) )

I don't think I'll be having children (ya never know, but chances are low), so coming up with names is mostly for stories I need to write. LOL

[amber]

Lynx, Aleshanee (she plays all the time), Sylven, Celeste...I used to like Allegra (lively and happy) until those damn commercials. :mad: My cousin has a name I think is really pretty, Amorette.
I would need longer on a boys name, but I like Max and Jack. and Silas. :laugh:

[dissention]

Some of my favorites:

Calista
Laurel
Jude
Aaralyn
Douglas
Jensen

[GretaRhiannon]

Rhiannon
Lily
Aeryn
Jasmine
Rosalee
Brenden
Cole

[bikerchic]

My favourite girl's name is Bronte and my favourite boy's name is Dean, that's why I named my daughter and son that.

I also like for a girl, Jamie, Carly, Kura (sp?) pronounced Cure-a, Bella and Drea (pronounced Dray).

[GardenStateGirlie]

For the kids i'm never having (and apparently they're all girls... :shrugs: )

Madison (Michelle for a middle name)
Mackenzie (Elaine for a middle name)
Jocelyn
Paige
Hayden (no, Meredith...not after your man)
Caleigh
Natalya/Natalia

I used to like Nicolette Elise but...meeeh to the Nicolette (thanks, Sheridan).

[diamondsnake]

Gwen, Kate, or Greta for a girl
Ethan, Christian, or Austin for a boy

[bikerchic]

I used to like Nicolette Elise but...meeeh to the Nicolette (thanks, Sheridan).
That made me think of Nicola, I love that.

[GardenStateGirlie]

That made me think of Nicola, I love that.

:nod:

You can't tell i'm part Italian or anything :laugh:

[amber]

:nod:

You can't tell i'm part Italian or anything :laugh:
I love the Nicole names, too. One of my best friends names was: Alexis Nicole Nicolini Last Name. (Nicolini was a family last name). Her nickname was Lexi, or, of course, sexy Lexi. :laugh: It's a shame Nicollette (sheridan) has ruined it for some people... :distress:

[WildInTheWind]

Well, I'm not without kids, but while I really wanted to name my daughter rhiannon (I think it would be cool to have 90 million versions of your own song!) I named her Olivia. Which I like, but still would have liked to have gone with Rhiannon. If she was a boy (which they said she was :rolleyes: ) I was going to name her Kalob. I have no idea if that's spelled correctly!

[macmar71]

Sarah or Charlotte for a girl


James or Devlin for a boy

[amber]

Well, I'm not without kids, but while I really wanted to name my daughter rhiannon (I think it would be cool to have 90 million versions of your own song!) I named her Olivia. Which I like, but still would have liked to have gone with Rhiannon. If she was a boy (which they said she was :rolleyes: ) I was going to name her Kalob. I have no idea if that's spelled correctly!
Caleb?
Olivia is a pretty name, too!

[xdreamsunwindx]

I'm not sure whether or not I want kids. That won't happen for a long minute, anyways. I love these names for girls: Veronica (I love this name so much, I'm taking it as my confirmation name.), Victoria, Nathalie, Audrey, Aislinn, Andrea, Christine, Crystal... That's it. If I ever have kids, they better be girls, because I have NO idea about male names. lol.

[WildInTheWind]

Caleb?


:lol: Yes thank you! Good thing she wasn't a boy, or else she (he?) would have had a very miss-spelled name!

[macfanken]

I like Jennevieve and Nigel.

[WildInTheWind]

I'm not sure whether or not I want kids. That won't happen for a long minute, anyways. .
I didn't want kids either. Accidents happen :rolleyes:

[amber]

I like Jennevieve and Nigel.
Niiiiiiiice... :nod: did you spell it that way on purpose? It's usually "Genevieve" I think... :)

[GardenStateGirlie]

Niiiiiiiice... :nod: did you spell it that way on purpose? It's usually "Genevieve" I think... :)

I used to babyit for one of my teachers. She has two daughters...one named Genevieve Marie and Gabriella Rose...I loved those names and the kids weren't so bad either :laugh:

[WildInTheWind]

I used to babyit for one of my teachers. She has two daughters...one named Genevieve Marie and Gabriella Rose...I loved those names and the kids weren't so bad either :laugh:


Those are both very beautiful names. For a girl, I have to have a very feminine, longer name. Those both fit the bill :nod: I'm a bit more traditional when it comes to boys...usually.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I love the Nicole names, too. One of my best friends names was: Alexis Nicole Nicolini Last Name. (Nicolini was a family last name). Her nickname was Lexi, or, of course, sexy Lexi. :laugh: It's a shame Nicollette (sheridan) has ruined it for some people... :distress:

I think Lexi is a cute nickname (or actual name). I still like Nicolette but after all the DH craze, I can't help but to think of her *gag*

[WildInTheWind]

I think Lexi is a cute nickname (or actual name). I still like Nicolette but after all the DH craze, I can't help but to think of her *gag*

Lexie is cute, though I am not big into nicknames. Olivia's grandma on her other side :rolleyes: calls her Liv, and it makes me want to strangle her. I wish people would have never started calling me Becky, Rebecca is so much prettier!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Lexie is cute, though I am not big into nicknames. Olivia's grandma on her other side :rolleyes: calls her Liv, and it makes me want to strangle her. I wish people would have never started calling me Becky, Rebecca is so much prettier!

Well, at least Liv is an actual name as opposed to my "Riss," "Risster," "Sissy," and "Maris" as well as the others that I try to forget :laugh:

I agree with the long names.

[macfanken]

Niiiiiiiice... :nod: did you spell it that way on purpose? It's usually "Genevieve" I think... :)


I think you're right, I saw it spelled Jennevieve earlier today so I guess that's why that spelling was in my head. :)

[amber]

Lexie is cute, though I am not big into nicknames. Olivia's grandma on her other side :rolleyes: calls her Liv, and it makes me want to strangle her. I wish people would have never started calling me Becky, Rebecca is so much prettier!
My mom said one of the reasons she specifically chose my name is that there are no nicknames. :shrug: One of her other choices was apparently "Felice", but she was worried about..."Fleas".... :laugh: I think one of her other choices was...Amethyst, or something like that, which is weird, cause she's not airy fairy at all, but I guess it was 1974... :laugh: My dad's name is Stan, and he suggested "Stanleyanna" :lol: :lol:

[amber]

Well, at least Liv is an actual name as opposed to my "Riss," "Risster," "Sissy," and "Maris" as well as the others that I try to forget :laugh:

I agree with the long names.
those are cute nicknames, as far as nicknames go. :shrug: well, I mainly like Riss, but...Sissy? not so much... :laugh:

[amber]

Actually I think Lux is the most beautiful name. It's short, blunt and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Such beauty.
actually, I really like the name Lux. :shrug: I just forgot I liked it. I like the other name, too. :nod: I'm a sucker for an "X" in a name, though...

[WildInTheWind]

I agree with the long names.
The only problem with them is people are always trying to shorten them! WHY!?! :distress:

[AliP]

I always go for the different names. I doubt I will ever get to use them. Some names I like:

Boys:
Finley
Jasper
Dayne
Jude
Xander

Girls:
Julian
Kasha (Polish for Katherine)
Grace
Matteline

[Johnny Stew]

short, blunt and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.I'll resist the urge to make a joke about my first boyfriend here. :eek: :laugh:

As far as naming children... I don't know. As much as I love Stevie/FM, I don't think I'd really want it to be anything related to them. I'd want my children to have their own identity. (Not that I'm saying anything against naming your child after something Stevie/Mac related, I'm just stating the reason I don't think I'd do so.)

There are some names that I think are really terrific... but, when it comes down to it, I guess I'd prefer the choice of name(s) to be a total collaboration between my mate and I.

Ok, how's that for non-committal? :laugh:

[Vianna]

girls:

Kyra
Louise
Aenor
Eleanor
Aislinn
Rhiannon=:-)

guys:

Lindsey! hehe
Mac
Frederick

[dissention]

I'll resist the urge to make a joke about my first boyfriend here. :eek: :laugh:

Ew.

As far as naming children... I don't know. As much as I love Stevie/FM, I don't think I'd really want it to be anything related to them. I'd want my children to have their own identity. (Not that I'm saying anything against naming your child after something Stevie/Mac related, I'm just stating the reason I don't think I'd do so.)

Wrong thread! That one's on the Stevie board. :laugh:

There are some names that I think are really terrific... but, when it comes down to it, I guess I'd prefer the choice of name(s) to be a total collaboration between my mate and I.

Not I. I have the names picked out already and it will be written in my prenup. Calista for a girl and Jude for a boy.

Ok, how's that for non-committal? :laugh:

I'd be non-committal if that was my boyfriend, too. :o

[amber]

girls:

Kyra
Louise
Aenor
Eleanor
Aislinn
Rhiannon=:-)

guys:

Lindsey! hehe
Mac
Frederick
How do you pronounce "Aenor"?

[amber]

Ew.



Wrong thread! That one's on the Stevie board. :laugh:



Not I. I have the names picked out already and it will be written in my prenup. Calista for a girl and Jude for a boy.



I'd be non-committal if that was my boyfriend, too. :o
What about Calixta? is that different? that's pronounced different, right? :shrug: On another note, you sure are a controlling little thing... :lol:

[dissention]

What about Calixta? is that different? that's pronounced different, right? :shrug: On another note, you sure are a controlling little thing... :lol:

Oh, no. It has to be Cal-isssssss-ta, like Calista Flockhart. I think that is the most beautiful name in the world. :D

I know I'm controlling, but I've been feeling paternal these past few days and though I'm never going to have kids, I'd like to have a Calista and a Jude. :nod:

[amber]

Oh, no. It has to be Cal-isssssss-ta, like Calista Flockhart. I think that is the most beautiful name in the world. :D

I know I'm controlling, but I've been feeling paternal these past few days and though I'm never going to have kids, I'd like to have a Calista and a Jude. :nod:
Ah, yes. I like the name Calixta, too, though. (I think it's pronounced "Ca light a, or something. I came across it in a spanish/creole girl character in a story by Kate Chopin) Calista is pretty, it's a bit consonental for me, but it could make my list, in theory...
Yes, clearly you need to own your kids by yourself, like I've always wanted to.... :lol: How else will I get away with naming one Lynx??? :p
Though, I think it's more fun to think of kids names than to actually have kids... :laugh:
Jude is ok - a bit evocative - like my best friend Lexi who wanted to name her kid Jezebel... :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

My mom said one of the reasons she specifically chose my name is that there are no nicknames. :shrug: One of her other choices was apparently "Felice", but she was worried about..."Fleas".... :laugh: I think one of her other choices was...Amethyst, or something like that, which is weird, cause she's not airy fairy at all, but I guess it was 1974... :laugh: My dad's name is Stan, and he suggested "Stanleyanna" :lol: :lol:

Your mom chose well. :nod:

My mom wanted to name me April but my dad wanted Susan so that I became. My mom has the same name. I wish I had been named April because I would have felt my own identity more strongly rather than feeling so enmeshed with my mother. Maybe I wouldn't have though, but it is also just a pretty name and unique. April Sue, hehe. That would be my stage name for my country singin' career, yeeehawww! :D

I really like the name Sara and may use that one. It's such a pretty name and I love the song. I've often thought of this. For a boy I am not so sure. Oh yeah, I also like the name Grace for a girl but it sort of conjures up different images since Will and Grace than I had in mind. Maybe I would name my son Robert since it is sort of a family name.

[dissention]

Yes, clearly you need to own your kids by yourself, like I've always wanted to.... :lol: How else will I get away with naming one Lynx??? :p

I would never be able to look my kid in the eye if I named him Lynx! :lol:

Though, I think it's more fun to think of kids names than to actually have kids... :laugh:

Most definitely. :laugh:

Jude is ok - a bit evocative - like my best friend Lexi who wanted to name her kid Jezebel... :laugh:

I lurve it. Have lurved it ever since I heard "Hey Jude" years ago from that band I can't stand. I wish it was my name. I hate my name. *pouts*

[SuzeQuze]

Oh, no. It has to be Cal-isssssss-ta, like Calista Flockhart. I think that is the most beautiful name in the world. :D

I know I'm controlling, but I've been feeling paternal these past few days and though I'm never going to have kids, I'd like to have a Calista and a Jude. :nod:

Hmm, never? You've already decided? This reminds me, I like the name Clarissa and Celine. Except we know who ruined Celine. :eek: It was my mom's nana's name and she was divine. :nod:

[amber]

Hmm, never? You've already decided? This reminds me, I like the name Clarissa and Celine. Except we know who ruined Celine. :eek: It was my mom's nana's name and she was divine. :nod:
Celine is (was) on my list. Luckily, I still like Celeste, and Celestine...actually I like them better...

[Johnny Stew]

Ew.I love grossing you out. :laugh:
I don't know why I love it like I do. I don't know why, I just do. ;)

Not I. I have the names picked out already and it will be written in my prenup.*cough*control freak*cough* :laugh:

I'd be non-committal if that was my boyfriend, too. :oYou mean the short, blunt one that leaves a bad taste in your mouth? All my friends referred to him as "The Asshole."
I don't know why I put up with him as long as I did. I guess because he was my first boyfriend and my cajones were still growing. *lol*

My new beau, on the other hand, is someone whom anyone would want to be their baby's daddy. :D

[GardenStateGirlie]

those are cute nicknames, as far as nicknames go. :shrug: well, I mainly like Riss, but...Sissy? not so much... :laugh:

My dog knows me by "Sissy." If my mom says "go get Sissy!" she'll come to me. If she says Marissa, she'll come over to me eventually but generally, that's how it goes. It orginated with my childhood friends little brother and his inability to say my name. He used to call our other friend "DinDin" (Kristen) and his sister, Dawa (Karla). Karla still calls me Sis to this day.

[GardenStateGirlie]

The only problem with them is people are always trying to shorten them! WHY!?! :distress:

Aside from shortening the long names, I don't know but my mom had some lightbulb go off before I was born. I was supposed to be "Marja" but my dad said "no way in hell." They decided on Marissa Leigh but with my last name (it's a long one), she opted against the Leigh and went for Lee citing it would be too difficult for a child to spell completely -_- Do you honestly think those extra two letters make much difference, mom? :distress: I like Leigh better.

[amber]

I would never be able to look my kid in the eye if I named him Lynx! :lol:

I think it's as pretty as the animal. I love "x's" too. And? the Lynx is not for a boy, it's for a girl. I think it's grand to name a child after a beautiful animal. But then, I was raised that way, and you weren't, eh? Not like I would name my kid....deer, or mountain lion, or cheetah...i was considering Coyote once, though... :laugh: but I enjoy the mythology of the coyote in native american lore...see? different. I just think Lynx is a pretty, evocative name. :)
Also, a middle name will probably have to be "Rain". that's my best friend's name, and it reminds me of Stevie, too! One of her kids is named "River". Yep, we're all just a bunch of native american hippies out here.... :lol:

[dissention]

I love grossing you out. :laugh:
I don't know why I love it like I do. I don't know why, I just do. ;)

Beats me. Maybe because you can only manage to do it so infrequently. ;)

*cough*control freak*cough* :laugh:

A control freak who picks lovely names.

You mean the short, blunt one that leaves a bad taste in your mouth? All my friends referred to him as "The Asshole."
I don't know why I put up with him as long as I did. I guess because he was my first boyfriend and my cajones were still growing. *lol*

Eek. I was born with brass balls and piss and vinegar pumping through my veins. :laugh: I was never good at breaking up with people, it is very depressing. Even when I couldn't stand to be around them any longer, I felt sad.

My new beau, on the other hand, is someone whom anyone would want to be their baby's daddy. :D

Not anyone. If I have kids, I want me to be their daddy. :laugh:

[amber]

Aside from shortening the long names, I don't know but my mom had some lightbulb go off before I was born. I was supposed to be "Marja" but my dad said "no way in hell." They decided on Marissa Leigh but with my last name (it's a long one), she opted against the Leigh and went for Lee citing it would be too difficult for a child to spell completely -_- Do you honestly think those extra two letters make much difference, mom? :distress: I like Leigh better.
I think Marissa Lee is a beautiful name. And my best friends brother was named "Leigh" :shrug: so I don't know what your mom was thinking with that. And as far as being too difficult? I have five middle names, and could write them young, so... :shrug: Oh, well, you have a pretty name anyways, so that's good. :)

[SuzeQuze]

I think it's as pretty as the animal. I love "x's" too. And? the Lynx is not for a boy, it's for a girl. I think it's grand to name a child after a beautiful animal. But then, I was raised that way, and you weren't, eh? Not like I would name my kid....deer, or mountain lion, or cheetah...i was considering Coyote once, though... :laugh: but I enjoy the mythology of the coyote in native american lore...see? different. I just think Lynx is a pretty, evocative name. :)
Also, a middle name will probably have to be "Rain". that's my best friend's name, and it reminds me of Stevie, too! One of her kids is named "River". Yep, we're all just a bunch of native american hippies out here.... :lol:

Lynx is sort of a neat name. I like the sound of it. I couldn't give my child a name so different though for fear of scarring him for life! It is a beautiful creature, I still have the lynx picture I posted in Pattie's wildcat thread as my desktop background. It's so gorgeous!

'Night Ledgie peeps! :wavey:

[xdreamsunwindx]

Aside from shortening the long names, I don't know but my mom had some lightbulb go off before I was born. I was supposed to be "Marja" but my dad said "no way in hell." They decided on Marissa Leigh but with my last name (it's a long one), she opted against the Leigh and went for Lee citing it would be too difficult for a child to spell completely -_- Do you honestly think those extra two letters make much difference, mom? :distress: I like Leigh better.

Try having Catherine Emily as a little kid. -_-

[amber]

Lynx is sort of a neat name. I like the sound of it. I couldn't give my child a name so different though for fear of scarring him for life! It is a beautiful creature, I still have the lynx picture I posted in Pattie's wildcat thread as my desktop background. It's so gorgeous!

'Night Ledgie peeps! :wavey:
Thanks, Suze. I like the sound of it, too. I don't think someone would be scarred by having that name... :shrug: It's not like it's "asshole" or something. It's just an animal. And the good part is, it's not regular, so people will remember it. And, in my head, associate it with a pretty animal! yay! :p

[Johnny Stew]

Beats me. Maybe because you can only manage to do it so infrequently. ;)It might happen only infrequently, but when it does, it's never been because I was trying. Maybe that's the part I enjoy most. *lol*

A control freak who picks lovely names.The names you picked, while nice, mostly seemed too modern/trendy/Yuppie to me. But, hey, they're not my kids! :laugh:

Eek. I was born with brass balls and piss and vinegar pumping through my veins. :laugh:It took me a long time to find my "voice"... but it was hard won, and that means a lot to me.

I was never good at breaking up with people, it is very depressing. Even when I couldn't stand to be around them any longer, I felt sad.I was too meek to break up with him at the time, but I'd sure as hell do it now. :laugh:

Not anyone. If I have kids, I want me to be their daddy. :laugh:My child's gonna have two daddies, so.... :laugh:

[dissention]

It might happen only infrequently, but when it does, it's never been because I was trying. Maybe that's the part I enjoy most. *lol*

Most mentions of bodily fluids make me gag, so you've discovered me weak spot. :laugh:

The names you picked, while nice, mostly seemed too modern/trendy/Yuppie to me. But, hey, they're not my kids! :laugh:

:rolleyes:

My cool, trendy kids will not hang out with your kids, obviously. Your kids won't have any playdates. Poor buggers. :p

It took me a long time to find my "voice"... but it was hard won, and that means a lot to me.

I was too meek to break up with him at the time, but I'd sure as hell do it now. :laugh:

Ah, young love. :laugh: I think it took me weeks to finally break up with my first girlfriend. And she wanted to break up, too!

My child's gonna have two daddies, so.... :laugh:

More power to ya. Have you looked into adoption or anyhting like that?

[GardenStateGirlie]

That actually sounds like you intend on Diss being the other daddy.

If that's the case, Le Stew can forget about her being named Bella Donna ;) You know Diss ain't having that :laugh:

[dissention]

If that's the case, Le Stew can forget about her being named Bella Donna ;) You know Diss ain't having that :laugh:

On a cold day in Hell. Calista for a girl, Jude for a boy. That is all. It's in the prenup, black and white, clear as crystal.

[Moony]

I've always loved the names Aidan and Liv.

I probably will never have children, but ... :rolleyes: who knows.

[amber]

Most mentions of bodily fluids make me gag, so you've discovered me weak spot. :laugh:

Honestly, I can't believe you ever have shmex. Are you there all the time with an antibacterial towel? Do you tell people: "that's too gross, I can't do it"? Do you say..."let me put down this plastic first"? and "hey! I just changed these sheets!" or whattabout..."go take a shower, then please leave"? Or maybe..."hey! no kissing! too much slobber!"
:lol: :lol:

[dissention]

Honestly, I can't believe you ever have shmex. Are you there all the time with an antibacterial towel? Do you tell people: "that's too gross, I can't do it"? Do you say..."let me put down this plastic first"? and "hey! I just changed these sheets!" or whattabout..."go take a shower, then please leave"?
:lol: :lol:

Doing the act is one thing, but actually sitting there and discussing actual fluids grosses me out, dear. :cool:

Sweaty, dirty sex is the best, so I can't be that bad. :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

I was with someone for approximately two years who is wide, piercing and leaves excruciating wounds in delicate chasms.I guess there are drawbacks to dating a Knight In Shining Armor after all!

That actually sounds like you intend on Diss being the other daddy.I better go back and re-word that sucker then! :laugh:

[amber]

Doing the act is one thing, but actually sitting there and discussing actual fluids grosses me out, dear. :cool:

Sweaty, dirty sex is the best, so I can't be that bad. :laugh:
All right, all right. I don't like to discuss stuff either. For instance, I hate snot. hate it. But also, I wouldn't say "bodily fluids are gross" b/c that's just not always the case...I would say..."they are gross except in this one context...." :lol: :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

Most mentions of bodily fluids make me gag, so you've discovered me weak spot. :laugh:A lot of people seem to be the same way about bodily fluids, but that's never bothered me.

I remember in high school, right after our annual physicals, we were served some kind of "mystery juice" during lunch. No one could figure out exactly what it was, so I piped up, "it's probably our urine samples."
My friend Mark was SO disgusted that he couldn't finish his lunch (he had only taken two bites out of his burger), and was actually pretty angry with me. I felt bad, but how was I to know he was such a wimp! *lol*

He spent the rest of the schoolyear trying in vain to gross me out and ruin my lunch, but he never succeeded. :D :laugh:

My cool, trendy kids will not hang out with your kids, obviously. Your kids won't have any playdates. Poor buggers. :pSomehow I think my kids will get over it. ;) :laugh:

Have you looked into adoption or anyhting like that?You know, I actually had a long talk about adoption with CV once, and he gave me a lot of great tips and insights into the process.

I'd rather adopt than do the surrogate mother thing. Yeah, it's cool for your kids to have your genes (or your partner's), but there are so many parentless children in this world, that I'd rather give one (or more) of them a home.

[dissention]

A lot of people seem to be the same way about bodily fluids, but that's never bothered me.

I remember in high school, right after our annual physicals, we were served some kind of "mystery juice" during lunch. No one could figure out exactly what it was, so I piped up, "it's probably our urine samples."
My friend Mark was SO disgusted that he couldn't finish his lunch (he had only taken two bites out of his burger), and was actually pretty angry with me. I felt bad, but how was I to know he was such a wimp! *lol*

He spent the rest of the schoolyear trying in vain to gross me out and ruin my lunch, but he never succeeded. :D :laugh:

Bodily fluids and eyes are the only things that can really bother me. Other than that, I'm fine. :laugh: Nothing makes me blush, usually.

Somehow I think my kids will get over it. ;) :laugh:

Yeah, after years of intensive therapy.

You know, I actually had a long talk about adoption with CV once, and he gave me a lot of great tips and insights into the process.

I'd rather adopt than do the surrogate mother thing. Yeah, it's cool for your kids to have your genes (or your partner's), but there are so many parentless children in this world, that I'd rather give one (or more) of them a home.

I agree. Just like with animals, I'd rather get one from a shelter instead of paying for one that will eventually get a good home.

[charmed]

I would like an old fashioned name for a girl... my favorites are:
Emily
Sophia
Greta
Sara
Katherine
Elizabeth

Modern names I like are:
Madison
Nicolette
Taylor

For a boy.. his name would be David. after my father :)

[amber]

I agree. Just like with animals, I'd rather get one from a shelter instead of paying for one that will eventually get a good home.
It sounds good, but I only want a child to pass on my exceptional genes... :lol: So...one of you guys want it? :lol: It will be good at sports, singing, band, choir, acting, school....oh, and can I have it back when it's 3? :lol: :lol: JK!

[GypsySorcerer]

Sophia Grace
Alyssa
Elise


Trevor
Jaden
Stuart

[sparky]

I shall never have any kids. No interest, but if I did...

Boys:

Max
Bart

Girls:

Meredith
Christine

[amber]

I shall never have any kids. No interest, but if I did...

Boys:

Max
Bart

Girls:

Meredith
Christine
Yaaay, Max! love that name. Meredith? Not so much. Christine? Meh. :laugh:

[sparky]

Most mentions of bodily fluids make me gag, so you've discovered me weak spot. :laugh:

Historically, I have had enormous hang-ups about body fluids. But recently, there has been this dude...
Oh hell, Dissention knows all about this already. :lol:

[sparky]

Yaaay, Max! love that name. Meredith? Not so much. Christine? Meh. :laugh:

Mere is the greatest nickname, and one of my best friends is named Meredith so...
I have always loved the name Christine, nothing to do with McVie. And every girl named Chris I ever met was a doll. I like the way the name sounds when I say it.

[hayley]

I have a relatively uncommon name- or at least I did, when I was growing up. It's become very popular now. But for that reason, I've never been a fan of many traditional names, because I like my slightly irregular but not weird name. In my extended family, half the kids have incredibly normal names- Christopher, Harrison, Samantha, Brian, etc.- and the other half have somewhat off the wall ones- Mackenzie, London (middle name is Avalon), Laiken.

I only really like one girl name for myself- for a LONG time now I've wanted to name a girl Flynn. Is that weird? I like Ava, too. And I do really like Rhiannon, I'll admit it. For boys, I like Jack, Jude, Aidan, and Finn.

Aww, ****. I just realized I can't have a Flynn and a Finn. Haaaa. Damn.

[sparky]

I have a relatively uncommon name- or at least I did, when I was growing up. It's become very popular now. But for that reason, I've never been a fan of many traditional names, because I like my slightly irregular but not weird name. In my extended family, half the kids have incredibly normal names- Christopher, Harrison, Samantha, Brian, etc.- and the other half have somewhat off the wall ones- Mackenzie, London (middle name is Avalon), Laiken.

I only really like one girl name for myself- for a LONG time now I've wanted to name a girl Flynn. Is that weird? I like Ava, too. And I do really like Rhiannon, I'll admit it. For boys, I like Jack, Jude, Aidan, and Finn.

Aww, ****. I just realized I can't have a Flynn and a Finn. Haaaa. Damn.

I think Ava ROCKS. Jack and Finn are pretty great too.

Man, am I gonna have to breed, just so I can have fun with these cool kid names ?

[amber]

I think Ava ROCKS. Jack and Finn are pretty great too.

Man, am I gonna have to breed, just so I can have fun with these cool kid names ?
Love Jack, like Ava. Have a friend named Ava, though. She's really pretty, went to USC...

[amber]

Mere is the greatest nickname, and one of my best friends is named Meredith so...
I have always loved the name Christine, nothing to do with McVie. And every girl named Chris I ever met was a doll. I like the way the name sounds when I say it.
I've known girls named Christinna, and they've been popular and pretty. Not fond of biblical names, is the thing, and this one actually has "christ" in it...*shrug*

[sparky]

I've known girls named Christinna, and they've been popular and pretty. Not fond of biblical names, is the thing, and this one actually has "christ" in it...*shrug*

I am such an idiot, I didn't even get that. What a goof.

I hate the name Christina, but love Christine. Go figure.

[amber]

Historically, I have had enormous hang-ups about body fluids. But recently, there has been this dude...
Oh hell, Dissention knows all about this already. :lol:
great...you're doing this on purpose, aren't you? :distress: I'll have to stop reading your posts, lest you allude to a secret I don't know. :laugh: On the other hand, I wish there was someone to listen to my "body fluid fun" :lol: But, i guess if you're not supergay, and you're friend isn't, they won't really want to hear it? :confused: Cause I did this thing recently.... :laugh:

[wondergirl9847]

My dog knows me by "Sissy." If my mom says "go get Sissy!" she'll come to me. If she says Marissa, she'll come over to me eventually but generally, that's how it goes. It orginated with my childhood friends little brother and his inability to say my name. He used to call our other friend "DinDin" (Kristen) and his sister, Dawa (Karla). Karla still calls me Sis to this day.

My nickname is Sis or Sissy too, and I'm an only child. :shocked: My cousins called me Sis growing up and sometimes still do. My parents call me Sis all the time.

[sparky]

great...you're doing this on purpose, aren't you? :distress: I'll have to stop reading your posts, lest you allude to a secret I don't know. :laugh: On the other hand, I wish there was someone to listen to my "body fluid fun" :lol: But, i guess if you're not supergay, and you're friend isn't, they won't really want to hear it? :confused: Cause I did this thing recently.... :laugh:

This sounds just horrifying enough to interest me.

I'm not supergay, and neither is my fave new f-buddy. Which somehow changes the whole body fluid dynamic. It's all about pickup trucks and cowboy boots and sweatstained white t-shirts..oh, man. This is so off topic and inappropriate, and AMber it is ALL YOUR FAULT. :laugh:

[tynan88]

Back on topic I absolutely love my name...It is very unique, I would love to call my daughter maybe Hayley, Victoria, Melissa, Alyssa, Emily, Kirra, Lucia, Sharn, Rhiannon.

For boys, Owen, Rohan, Alan (My Dad), Colin, Alex, Peter, Mark, Anthony.

But out of the fact I am cruel I would pick Gertrude or Clarabell for a daughter, and Aloysius for a son.

[EnchantedSLN]

My last name ruins everything so hopefully I will have married a Smith or something by the time I have kids.

For a girl, I like: Athena, Cora, Naima (this would be frequently mispronounced, though), Lilith, Juliet, Layla, Rhiannon, and Philana (but I have a cousin named that so I wouldn't use it.) I also like Sophie and Stephanie, Stevie association aside, but I think they're too common.

For a boy: Evan (also pretty common I guess), Nolan, Lennon, Orion, Liam, Ansel.

(Diss, I like Jude too).

[dreamongypsydkm]

My sister and I were just having this conversation!

We both like the names Lennon, Jude, Sadie, Rose, and any other Beatles name in existence.

I like the name Paul because of McCartney, and Bono, etc. But, alas, that's Dylan's boyfriend's name. Makes it a bit weird.

I also love the names Mina or Lucy (because of Dracula), Rowan, and Sara

[CreepingDeath]

I'm so fickle that I can't decide on any name for long. I know once I settled on something I would eventually hate it. :o

On a side note, most of my cousin's have named their kids some strange ones IMO.

Some of them-

Girls:

Paris
Sierra
Berlyn
Peyton
McCartney (yes after Paul) her brother is Jude though, which I kinda like.
Zoe
Kensley

Boys:

Daulton
Landon
Griffin

[EnchantedSLN]

Lennon! Are you a fan? I didn't know that, and if you're not then I'd definately rethink that one because there's no avoiding that association.

But of course. Lennon has the honor of being the only non-Fleetwood Mac related poster in my room. I sometimes have a love/hate relationship with the Beatles, but I do adore John and his work.

Hamish is an interesting choice. I think I had a relative on my father's side named that. Or maybe it was Hamlet... I just remember everyone calling him Uncle Ham. He was a loud, smelly old man. That and the food association kind of puts a damper on the name for me, but I like Wesley and William ok.

[dreamongypsydkm]

Prudence? Martha? Oh, how about Yoko?

I thought you wanted to name a child Dylan. Is that after your sister or just because you like the name. I could never grow attached to a family member's name I don't think. Well, it would be like me naming my daughter Anneliese, which makes me want to vomit, not the name but the concept.


Oh I love the name Dylan

Other Beatles names:
Molly, Desmond, Bungalow Bill, Ringo, Prudence, Polythene Pam, Mean Mr. Mustard, Doctor Robert, Julia, Martha, Vera, Chuck, and Dave

[dreamongypsydkm]

JoJo. oh and Loretta and Rita. I don't imagine I'd name my child Polythene Pam, Perhaps Father Mackenzie. Beatles lyrics, there's so much to them. Oh how I love even the more simple Beatles lyrics, they always just.....well they work.

Eleanor Rigby, Abbey, Penny, Michelle (can't believe this wasn't mentioned yet), Lady Madonna, and Me and My Monkey?

[CreepingDeath]

They are unusual. Berlyn? As in a misspelling of the city? That's an odd one.

Yep. As if Berlin wouldn't be bad enough, they thought they would be 'cleaver' by changing the spelling. :rolleyes:

[dreamongypsydkm]

But of course. Lennon has the honor of being the only non-Fleetwood Mac related poster in my room. I sometimes have a love/hate relationship with the Beatles, but I do adore John and his work.

Hamish is an interesting choice. I think I had a relative on my father's side named that. Or maybe it was Hamlet... I just remember everyone calling him Uncle Ham. He was a loud, smelly old man. That and the food association kind of puts a damper on the name for me, but I like Wesley and William ok.


Love/Hate relationship with The Beatles?!?! My temp. just went up. Why?

:( Never hate The Beatles.

[dreamongypsydkm]

Haha, Me and My Monkey. I suppose if you're sadistic enough this works. I didnt' know what to name one of my first films so it became "Sounds of Ten Thousands Monkeys Waiting In The Sun".....get it? *sigh* I'm retarded. Atleast the lecturer said mine had the most interesting (and irrelevant) title.

There's got to be more. There's names were you dont' even notice them. Julia. Actually you might have mentioned that.

I did. Sorry. Actually I loved the name Julia for a long time. It's lovely. Ok, since we ran out of Beatles names - I'll reach a bit. Lovely Linda, Layla (it's a Clapton song but it's about Pattie Boyd, former wife of George Harrison), Mimi (John's Aunt), uhm Olivia....

[EnchantedSLN]

Love/Hate relationship with The Beatles?!?! My temp. just went up. Why?

:( Never hate The Beatles.

Oh don't get me wrong, they were magnificent and innovative and all that. I just don't think they're as untouchable and infallible as they're often made out to be. I don't think every Beatles song is spun with gold, and I resent that you can't tell that to a Beatles fan half the time because OMFG THEY'RE THE BEATLES!!!11.

Don't kill me.

[dreamongypsydkm]

Oh don't get me wrong, they were magnificent and innovative and all that. I just don't think they're as untouchable and infallible as they're often made out to be. I don't think every Beatles song is spun with gold, and I resent that you can't tell that to a Beatles fan half the time because OMFG THEY'RE THE BEATLES!!!11.

Don't kill me.


No, that's OK. You're entitled. I'll admit I'm a bit like that when it comes to them. I can admit that I don't like the songs Paperback Writer or The Long and Winding Road.
I just don't appreciate when people ignore that The Beatles did in 10 years what most bands can't do their entire career. Well, I'll finish ranting.

I promise I won't kill you.

[DownOnRodeo]

D'oh - Long and Winding Road was one of the ones I like. :p I'll never be a good Beatles fan - I should stop trying and stick with FM ;)

[DownOnRodeo]

What would you name your kid(s) if you ever had any?

Dor Jr and Dorette!

:laugh:

[sara1998]

My mom had 2 names picked out for me: Jennifer Ann, and Stephanie Lynn! How crazy is that? But I came out with cole black hair and dark skin, and dad said I looked like a Maria....

There ya go.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I'm a fan of "Isobel."

For guys, I have no idea.
Isabelle was my girls choice when I was expecting my second child. I had a boy tho and don't plan anymore kids. Still love that name though

[ontheEdgeof17]

Sebastian Fritz
Xavier Allen
Toby Lee


I'll have to think about names for girls..... :cool:

[GateandGarden]

I have no intention of ever having children, but...

I love the name Sara, not just because it's one of my favorite songs but also because it's a family name. (Except my family spells it Sarah). I've always been fond of my middle name, Clare, though it seems narcissisitic to name a child after myself. I'm a big fan of Laurana. I think people would find it strange, though. I'm also big on Margaret and one of its shortened forms, Margot, though I don't think many others like that name.

For a guy, sadly, I've always liked the named Nicodemus, though I would never wish it upon someone. I don't like it for the Biblical reference (of course not! :laugh: ), but for the character in Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh. Also, I like Tanis, which is also borrowed from literature, the Dragonlance series, though I know some don't consider that the best literature. :rolleyes:

And when I was a kid, I liked Narcacia and Electra for a girl, which was very unfortunate.

[xdreamsunwindx]

Prudence?


My dad wanted to name me Prudence, or Gertrude. Why, I don't know. But he did. My mom was thinking of Eliza (wtf), Sarah, Victoria, and I think Alicia. I can't remember what else... Oh, yeah, Stephanie.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I have no intention of ever having children, but...

I love the name Sara, not just because it's one of my favorite songs but also because it's a family name. (Except my family spells it Sarah). I've always been fond of my middle name, Clare, though it seems narcissisitic to name a child after myself. I'm a big fan of Laurana. I think people would find it strange, though. I'm also big on Margaret and one of its shortened forms, Margot, though I don't think many others like that name.

For a guy, sadly, I've always liked the named Nicodemus, though I would never wish it upon someone. I don't like it for the Biblical reference (of course not! :laugh: ), but for the character in Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh. Also, I like Tanis, which is also borrowed from literature, the Dragonlance series, though I know some don't consider that the best literature. :rolleyes:

And when I was a kid, I liked Narcacia and Electra for a girl, which was very unfortunate.
My middle name is Clare too!

[GateandGarden]

My middle name is Clare too!Cool!!! I've never met anyone else who spelled it that way! :blob2: :blob1:

[dissention]

This sounds just horrifying enough to interest me.

I'm not supergay, and neither is my fave new f-buddy. Which somehow changes the whole body fluid dynamic. It's all about pickup trucks and cowboy boots and sweatstained white t-shirts..oh, man. This is so off topic and inappropriate, and AMber it is ALL YOUR FAULT. :laugh:

:laugh:

Your new f-buddy certainly isn't supergay but he's obviously got it bad from what I gather.

You lost me with your cowboy boots and the pickup trucks. I like 'em manly, but those would be too much for me. :laugh:

[dissention]

My sister and I were just having this conversation!

We both like the names Lennon, Jude, Sadie, Rose, and any other Beatles name in existence.

I like the name Paul because of McCartney, and Bono, etc. But, alas, that's Dylan's boyfriend's name. Makes it a bit weird.

I also love the names Mina or Lucy (because of Dracula), Rowan, and Sara

Ooh, I like Sadie, too. And Mina. :nod:

[SuzeQuze]

:laugh:

Your new f-buddy certainly isn't supergay but he's obviously got it bad from what I gather.

You lost me with your cowboy boots and the pickup trucks. I like 'em manly, but those would be too much for me. :laugh:

Mmmm, I like 'em manly too, I love the smell of a real manly man. :nod:

Oh snap! That's not what this thread is about... :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

I've always liked the name Micah for a girl except that I've never known any well-adjusted Micahs, they've all been a touch insane :laugh: I also like Isabella, Ezmerelda and Chloe.

For boys...hmmm....I like the name Jackson a lot.

[SuzeQuze]

I've always liked the name Micah for a girl except that I've never known any well-adjusted Micahs, they've all been a touch insane :laugh: I also like Isabella, Ezmerelda and Chloe.

For boys...hmmm....I like the name Jackson a lot.

Interesting. I knew a boy named Micah and he shot himself in the leg accidentally. Oh wait, no that wasn't him, was his best friend. But Micah was nuts indeed. :nod:

[cliffdweller]

If that's the case, Le Stew can forget about her being named Bella Donna ;) You know Diss ain't having that :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: that's a good one.

[cliffdweller]

Interesting. I knew a boy named Micah and he shot himself in the leg accidentally. Oh wait, no that wasn't him, was his best friend. But Micah was nuts indeed. :nod:

See what I mean? If you name your kid Micah you are curisng them for life! I still like the name though. And I have to admit....I like the name Mikalah too and it has nothing to do with American Idol dammit! :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Some of my favorites:
Douglas

?!?!?!?!? :confused:
That? Makes me me think of Michael Douglas. Eeewww.

[dissention]

?!?!?!?!? :confused:
That? Makes me me think of Michael Douglas. Eeewww.

:p I like it. It's very intellectual and smarmy.

[cliffdweller]

:p I like it. It's very intellectual and smarmy.

Perfect choice then! Rock on with your Douglas.

[dissention]

Perfect choice then! Rock on with your Douglas.

Would you prefer I name my kid Apple? :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Would you prefer I name my kid Apple? :laugh:

Oh sonofabitch that's bad. But what else can one expect from loopy Gweneth Paltrow? I feel dumbed down just listening to her give an interview. :]

[dissention]

Oh sonofabitch that's bad. But what else can one expect from loopy Gweneth Paltrow? I feel dumbed down just listening to her give an interview. :]

:laugh: She isn't the brightest crayon in the Crayola box, that's for sure.

Who the hell names their kid after a fruit, though? Maybe I should have a kid just so I can name him Tomato.

[markolas]

Boy: Henry
Girl: Greta

One of the downers to dating someone twice your age is that the odds are good that he isn't going to want children. Not that I want them either, necessarily.

Oh...I almost forgot. At one point I was thinking the name Gilman Abraham would be a good name for a son.

[markolas]

diss, are you looking for ideas or something? :p

[GypsySorcerer]

Would you prefer I name my kid Apple? :laugh:

:laugh:

Apple is better than Hazel and Phinnius, though. :shocked:

[dissention]

diss, are you looking for ideas or something? :p

Oh, hell no. I'd never bring a kid into this world. I just find it interesting what names people would pick for their kids. ;)

[SuzeQuze]

:laugh: She isn't the brightest crayon in the Crayola box, that's for sure.

Who the hell names their kid after a fruit, though? Maybe I should have a kid just so I can name him Tomato.

:laugh: Sesly, what is up with her? How do you respond with "Apple" when someone asks your child's name. I'd be cracking up every time.

"Tomato", now that's funny. :lol: :]

[skcin]

:laugh:

Apple is better than Hazel and Phinnius, though. :shocked:


I must disagree with you on that one, my dear. :nod:

I was supposed to be Jennifer. :rolleyes: Thank God my dad wanted to name me after his dad, who died the day before I was born. No offense to any Jennifers, but I am definitely not a "Jenny."

AND thank God they went with the American version. My grandfather's name was Pavel; I probably could have been Pavla, or Pavela. :laugh:

Always said I'd never have kids. Of course, we always said we'd never get married either, so...

Boys:
Frank (my other grandfather's name. I like Frankie)
Matthew
Jake
Jack
Samuel
Adam

I would like the middle name to be Paul.

As a side note, I hate all boy's names that start with K. No clue why. Keith, Kenneth, Kevin - ick.

Girls:
Hannah
Ella/Ellie
Tess/Tessa
Emily/Emma
Sara
Eve
Samantha
Amanda (but not Mandy)
Victoria (grandmother's name, but I don't like Tori or Vicki, so forget it.)

Middle name Petrana (grandmother's name)

I'll think of more. Working with crazy kids for a few years has certainly ruined several names for me. :(

[TheBlueLamp]

My sister recently had a baby and I desperately tried to get her to call her Stevie...even though I would never actually call my own child that. Her partner vetoed that name though.

I don't think I'll be having children but if I ever had triplets I used to want to call them Kendra, Audra and Marlena.

I remember reading a book when I was a kid that had a talking cat called Arabella...I've never been able to figure out what the book was but I still love that name.

I also like:

Sigourney
Alexandra
Laura/Lauren/Laurel
Margot
Katharine - definitely with two As and a K
Isobel
Christina/Tina (but I'd be tempted to yell "bring me the axe!" everytime I called her name :laugh: )
Bianca
Selena (named after Faye Dunaway from Supergirl or Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns)
India (I've loved this as a name since I saw it in Gone With The Wind)

Eric
Nicholas (which is my father's and my name, so it'd be a tradition even though I hate it when someone calls and we don't know which one of us they're after :laugh: )
Rex

[ryan8472]

For girls: Heather or Stephanie

For boys: Nicholas or Justin

Thoughts? :shrug:

[dissention]

For girls: Heather or Stephanie

For boys: Nicholas or Justin

Thoughts? :shrug:

I like Nicholas a lot. :nod:

If I ever had kids, I'd want to name them something out of the mainstream, something that's original. Calista and Jude are my picks and I'm sticking to them. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

For girls: Heather or Stephanie

For boys: Nicholas or Justin

Thoughts? :shrug:I like Stephanie and Nicholas the most of those. :nod:

[CreepingDeath]

For girls: Heather or Stephanie

For boys: Nicholas or Justin

Thoughts? :shrug:

I like Nicholas too. :nod:

One of my brothers is named Justin, so I could never use that one. My other brother is Ryan. :wavey:

[ryan8472]

I like Nicholas a lot. :nod:

If I ever had kids, I'd want to name them something out of the mainstream, something that's original. Calista and Jude are my picks and I'm sticking to them. :laugh:
Calista Clark.... That's one of those names I'd say over and over and over again just for the way it sounds. :laugh:

I'm partial to Nicholas myself. :nod: And I thought about Josh too, but I knew you'd have a wise comment. :laugh: I think it just sounds too plain. Josh Gates. Maybe I'l just use Chris Gates (my dad). :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

One of the downers to dating someone twice your age is that the odds are good that he isn't going to want children. Not that I want them either, necessarily.That's not entirely true, Mark. I've found that it's usually the older guys who are more interested in being a father.

Hell, a gay guy who wants kids is a major find as it is, no matter what his age! :laugh: Many seem too shallow to make room in their lives for anyone other than themselves.

[dissention]

Calista Clark.... That's one of those names I'd say over and over and over again just for the way it sounds. :laugh:

I'm partial to Nicholas myself. :nod: And I thought about Josh too, but I knew you'd have a wise comment. :laugh: I think it just sounds too plain. Josh Gates. Maybe I'l just use Chris Gates (my dad). :shrug:

Josh is very plain. I hate it. I'll never know what my mother was smoking when she named me.

Nicholas is nice, I do like that name.

[dissention]

That's not entirely true, Mark. I've found that it's usually the older guys who are more interested in being a father.

Hell, a gay guy who wants kids is a major find as it is, no matter what his age! :laugh: Many seem too shallow to make room in their lives for anyone other than themselves.

I think it's more fear than being shallow. :o

[Johnny Stew]

Nicholas is nice, I do like that name.Now, Nicholas is definitely a name I'd lean towards for a son. That's a great, classic name.

I went to school with a Byron, and I always loved that name (plus this guy was just plain HOT :o ), but to name my own child Byron, just wouldn't work. :(

[Johnny Stew]

I think it's more fear than being shallow. :oFor some guys, I'd say you're right about it being fear. But for others, it's definitely shallowness. Their world revolves around themselves, and only themselves, and it always will.

[dissention]

Now, Nicholas is definitely a name I'd lean towards for a son. That's a great, classic name.

See, I don't want to name my kid anything classic or cliched. I want something that's out of the mainstream, something that sticks out in your mind. :D

I went to school with a Byron, and I always loved that name (plus this guy was just plain HOT :o ), but to name my own child Byron, just wouldn't work. :(

Byron sounds like a farmboy name. :laugh: I suppose it's better than Phinnaeus and Maddox, though.

[dissention]

For some guys, I'd say you're right about it being fear. But for others, it's definitely shallowness. Their world revolves around themselves, and only themselves, and it always will.

I don't think anyone is like that forever, they all wise up eventually. Unfortunately, it's too late most of the time, but they do wise up. I know the reasons I would never have kids is because I don't want them to grow up in such a world and because I'd be scared to death of not only ****ing them up, but being a failure at my job as a parent. Too much, man. :laugh: There's also a part of me that does want to have them, but I think there's a part in everyone that wants to have kids, whether they admit it or not.

[Johnny Stew]

See, I don't want to name my kid anything classic or cliched. I want something that's out of the mainstream, something that sticks out in your mind. :DYeah... something modern and trendy. Blech. :laugh:

Byron sounds like a farmboy name. :laugh: I suppose it's better than Phinnaeus and Maddox, though.When I hear the name Byron, I always think of the poet... so it conjurs up visions of a creative soul. Plus, I always remember the Byron I went to school with, and, as I said, the guy was HOT. All well-built, blond-haired, blue-eyed, artistic, intelligent, and yet also incredibly humble and kind-hearted. Dude had it goin' on.

One of life's biggest tragedies is that he's a straight boy. :laugh:

[dissention]

Yeah... something modern and trendy. Blech. :laugh:

I could always call them Tomato and Potato.

When I hear the name Byron, I always think of the poet... so it conjurs up visions of a creative soul. Plus, I always remember the Byron I went to school with, and, as I said, the guy was HOT. All well-built, blond-haired, blue-eyed, artistic, intelligent, and yet also incredibly humble and kind-hearted. Dude had it goin' on.

I just think of a tractor and a pair of overalls.

I love anyone who is artistic. You know you're in good company when you're with someone who is creative and imaginative.

One of life's biggest tragedies is that he's a straight boy. :laugh:

According to Kinsey, there are no such things. :laugh:

[sparky]

I think it's more fear than being shallow. :o

Fear of being shallow ? HA ! It's fear of being part of the new gay trend. Adopting a baby is the Prada sandal of the past two years. I would never adopt a kid with another guy, or do that creepy rent-a-womb thing for the simple reason that I think it is tantamount to a crime to deprive a child of a mother. It is SO about Xeroxing one's self (the rent-a-womb thing anyway...). Talk about self involved. Breeding is for straight people.

[amber]

I kind of like Aubrey for a boys name. It's a little yup for me, though, too. And what if he's nerdy? Course, my kid probably wouldn't be...he could be dorky, though, but that's different. And Auden is neat. still, very yup. hmmm...Adrian is nice too...so is Asher. uh..ok...

[Johnny Stew]

Fear of being shallow ? HA ! It's fear of being part of the new gay trend. Adopting a baby is the Prada sandal of the past two years. I would never adopt a kid with another guy, or do that creepy rent-a-womb thing for the simple reason that I think it is tantamount to a crime to deprive a child of a mother. It is SO about Xeroxing one's self (the rent-a-womb thing anyway...). Talk about self involved. Breeding is for straight people.And giving a parentless child a loving home is what, exactly?

Lots of children grow up with only a mother or only a father in their lives, and they turn out just fine. And I imagine it must be better than spending the first 18 years of life without any parents or stability at all. :nod:

If adopting a baby is the "new gay trend," then I guess I'd rather be part of that than part of the old gay trend. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

I could always call them Tomato and Potato.If you name your children Tomato and Potato, I just might have to name mine ToMAHto and PoTAHto! ;) :laugh:

I love anyone who is artistic. You know you're in good company when you're with someone who is creative and imaginative.That's definitely a pretty good rule of thumb.
I've always been attracted to artistic guys. If you can weed through all the ones with temperamental and/or self-involved personalities, you can find yourself a keeper! :D

According to Kinsey, there are no such things. :laugh:For the sake of gay men everywhere, I sure hope Kinsey's right, and Byron has at least *some* interest in other men! ;) :laugh:

[amber]

I kind of like Aubrey for a boys name. It's a little yup for me, though, too. And what if he's nerdy? Course, my kid probably wouldn't be...he could be dorky, though, but that's different. And Auden is neat. still, very yup. hmmm...Adrian is nice too...so is Asher. uh..ok...
Oh, and another girl name I (cheesily) like is Raven. :D And Jade, but I would never name my girl Jade. I just like it.

[CreepingDeath]

Oh, and another girl name I (cheesily) like is Raven.

I could never name my kid that without thinking of the show "That's So Raven".










Sometimes I'll actually watch it. Since I've just outted myself on that- I'll be leaving now. :o

[skcin]

I kind of like Aubrey for a boys name. It's a little yup for me, though, too. And what if he's nerdy? Course, my kid probably wouldn't be...he could be dorky, though, but that's different. And Auden is neat. still, very yup. hmmm...Adrian is nice too...so is Asher. uh..ok...

My Goddaughter's name in Aubrey Rayne. I love it. I have met both girls and boys with this name (well, not the Rayne part :laugh: )

Josh is very plain. I hate it. I'll never know what my mother was smoking when she named me.



Mark hates his name too. Says it's boring. "What the hell is Mark. Like, I'm a mark on a sheet of paper..." I told him it's a Christian name, to no avail... :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

I could never name my kid that without thinking of the show "That's So Raven".










Sometimes I'll actually watch it. Since I've just outted myself on that- I'll be leaving now. :o I associate that name with that show now, too. I used to like that name and she ruined it for me. I've seen that show a few times and that chick is so annoying that it's like a train wreck.

[dissention]

Fear of being shallow ? HA ! It's fear of being part of the new gay trend. Adopting a baby is the Prada sandal of the past two years. I would never adopt a kid with another guy, or do that creepy rent-a-womb thing for the simple reason that I think it is tantamount to a crime to deprive a child of a mother. It is SO about Xeroxing one's self (the rent-a-womb thing anyway...). Talk about self involved. Breeding is for straight people.

Rent-A-Womb. :lol::lol::lol:

I don't like that kind of stuff, either, mainly because I can't believe there are women out there who would carry a child for nine months and then give it up like that.

[Mari]

a traditional dutch name would be nice, but not the kind that sounds ridiculous to foreigners, ahum. We've quite a few of those.

I wouldn't make the mistake my parents made not to think about baby's initials.. my first names are Stephanie Marieke, figure it out.

[SuzeQuze]

Josh is very plain. I hate it. I'll never know what my mother was smoking when she named me.

Nicholas is nice, I do like that name.

So you're not Joshua? Just Josh kinda like Just Jack? :laugh: ;)

[dissention]

So you're not Joshua? Just Josh kinda like Just Jack? :laugh: ;)

Oh, I'm a full Josh, but I still hate it. It's too plain and...biblical. :laugh: Maybe I should change my name...

[SuzeQuze]

Oh, I'm a full Josh, but I still hate it. It's too plain and...biblical. :laugh: Maybe I should change my name...

To F*ckabees? :blob1:

[GypsySorcerer]

Oh, I'm a full Josh, but I still hate it. It's too plain and...biblical. :laugh: Maybe I should change my name...

I think Josh fits you. :)

But I hate my name too. Five minutes after meeting someone, I'm being called "Kristy," "Krystal," "Kristin", "Krissy," etc. :rolleyes:

[dissention]

I think Josh fits you. :)

But I hate my name too. Five minutes after meeting someone, I'm being called "Kristy," "Krystal," "Kristin", "Krissy," etc. :rolleyes:

Thank you. :xoxo: But it's still plain.

I love Krista, but I'd go bonkers if people called me by those other names, too. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

I love Krista, but I'd go bonkers if people called me by those other names, too. :laugh:Same here. I would hate it if people couldn't get it right, but it is beautiful, and different. :nod:

As it is, so many people call me Haley and Heather. :shrug: For some reason, Hillary is hard to remember.

[cliffdweller]

And giving a parentless child a loving home is what, exactly?

Lots of children grow up with only a mother or only a father in their lives, and they turn out just fine. And I imagine it must be better than spending the first 18 years of life without any parents or stability at all. :nod:

If adopting a baby is the "new gay trend," then I guess I'd rather be part of that than part of the old gay trend. :shrug:

Hmmm...trends aside, I think it should just come down to this: if you want children and want to give them a good home then do it. If you don't, then be honest about it and DON'T! There are too many bad parents out there regardless of their sexual preference. Kuddos to Sparky for knowing what he wants. Too many people enter into parenthood for all the wrong reasons either because of social pressure, pressure form a spouse or partner, or personal pressure. Having someone to carry on your genes is not a good primary reason to have a child. Anyone who says that is DOOMED as a parent!

[John Run]

Well, I would not name them John.

As I my brother once told me....Mom and Dad must have really hated you because they named you a synonym for a toilet and a guy who picks up hookers.

Trevor and Brandon for boys.

[skcin]

Well, I would not name them John.

As I my brother once told me....Mom and Dad must have really hated you because they named you a synonym for a toilet and a guy who picks up hookers.

Trevor and Brandon for boys.

Wow. Did your brother also tell you that you were adopted from a gypsy family & that there is no Santa Claus? :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Would you prefer I name my kid Apple? :laugh:
When she's old and becomes a grandmother she'll be "granny apple" :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Oh, and another girl name I (cheesily) like is Raven.
I think of a big black crow :sorry:

[Jason T.]

The funny thing is I just had a conversation about this with one of my friends. Granted, I think children are the Anti-Christ and I can't stand them.

Boys:
Xavier
-or- Javier



Girls:
Latecia
Alexandra
Stevie

[CreepingDeath]

I associate that name with that show now, too. I used to like that name and she ruined it for me. I've seen that show a few times and that chick is so annoying that it's like a train wreck.

A train wreck is right. That show is very grating, as is all of those 'teen Disney' shows. My cousin is going through a divorce, and she and her daughter are staying with me for while. Anyway, I've been forced into watching 'That's So Raven' and others like it. I think I'm going slightly mad. And not in the good way. :]

[sparky]

And giving a parentless child a loving home is what, exactly?

Lots of children grow up with only a mother or only a father in their lives, and they turn out just fine. And I imagine it must be better than spending the first 18 years of life without any parents or stability at all. :nod:

If adopting a baby is the "new gay trend," then I guess I'd rather be part of that than part of the old gay trend. :shrug:


Giving a parentless child two fathers or two mothers or one parent is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Beats being raised in an institution. Having 1 leg would suck, but it beats having two stumps.

However, I doubt if anyone, given the choice, would put having a mother and a father both raise them at number 2 or 3 on their list of ideal parenting situations.

I am of the mind that fathers and mothers both bring unique and crucial skills to the table in parenting. The balance of those often opposing energies helps to create more balanced individuals. Ideally.

And oh yeah, walk around Chelsea, Weho, Capitol Hill, Hillcrest, or any other gay mecca city...adopting babies is the new rainbow necklace, the new Madonna record, this decade's own handerkerchief code. It's ridiculous. People take it very lightly, and it smacks of playing house and aping straight people. I find it suspect.
Can adopting a kid be a selfless and honorable choice ? Certainly. Is it often in these cases ? Sketchy. Don't get me started on the rent-a-womb or turkey baster phenomenon. The ethics of those situations are pretty damned slippery.

[John Run]

Wow. Did your brother also tell you that you were adopted from a gypsy family & that there is no Santa Claus? :laugh:

No, but he did tell me that When I was 6 years old the youngest male in each family (me) is taken from his family and shipped to Lebanon to live there with a new family that I would be assigned to upon my arrival.

He also would also substitute my orange juice with lemon juice and once dipped my head in a toilet.

[SuzeQuze]

A train wreck is right. That show is very grating, as is all of those 'teen Disney' shows. My cousin is going through a divorce, and she and her daughter are staying with me for while. Anyway, I've been forced into watching 'That's So Raven' and others like it. I think I'm going slightly mad. And not in the good way. :]

Well, I've never watched that show thank God so I associate Raven with my ex's cat who is a little sweetie. In fact, I don't watch it because I didn't want to ruin the name! Plus I don't know anyone who would want to watch it anyway. No, the cat isn't black, he was named Raven because he was born the day the Ravens won the superbowl.

[dissention]

To F*ckabees? :blob1:

:lol::lol::lol:

I could dig that.

[dissention]

A train wreck is right. That show is very grating, as is all of those 'teen Disney' shows. My cousin is going through a divorce, and she and her daughter are staying with me for while. Anyway, I've been forced into watching 'That's So Raven' and others like it. I think I'm going slightly mad. And not in the good way. :]

Bite your tongue. I <3 Even Stevens. :p

[BTFLCHLD]

girls
amber
kalena
shasta

boys
jasper
travis
nico

At one time, I liked the name miranda...
then i found out it was a moon of uranus.

[CreepingDeath]

Bite your tongue. I <3 Even Stevens. :p

Oy, just kill me now. I'd rather have needles stuck in my eyes then watch that little gem again.

[amber]

I think of a big black crow :sorry:
yeah, exactly. :)

[skcin]

No, but he did tell me that When I was 6 years old the youngest male in each family (me) is taken from his family and shipped to Lebanon to live there with a new family that I would be assigned to upon my arrival.

He also would also substitute my orange juice with lemon juice and once dipped my head in a toilet.


You poor, damaged young man... :(

:laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[golddustwoman77]

Girl----Victoria Priestley and call her "Priestley" (After my grandmother and great grandfather), Lashlee (a family name)

Boy--------Mason, Hayden, Vance, or Noah

[ontheEdgeof17]

Chariot Illume? Yes? No?


I'm guessing no..........


I like it, though.

[Johnny Stew]

Hmmm...trends aside, I think it should just come down to this: if you want children and want to give them a good home then do it. If you don't, then be honest about it and DON'T! There are too many bad parents out there regardless of their sexual preference. Kuddos to Sparky for knowing what he wants. Too many people enter into parenthood for all the wrong reasons either because of social pressure, pressure form a spouse or partner, or personal pressure. Having someone to carry on your genes is not a good primary reason to have a child. Anyone who says that is DOOMED as a parent!Well, that's exactly it. Adopting or having a child should be done out of a genuine desire to have children and do the best possible job that you can raising them.

Many people put no more thought into whether or not they can actually provide for a child and raise a child properly, than they do which toothpaste to buy.

[GypsySorcerer]

Thank you. :xoxo: But it's still plain.

I love Krista, but I'd go bonkers if people called me by those other names, too. :laugh:

It's the most insulting thing when someone gets your name wrong. I mean, we're talking about my identity here. ;)

[amber]

It's the most insulting thing when someone gets your name wrong. I mean, we're talking about my identity here. ;)
Don't be so sensitive, Khristie.... :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

Same here. I would hate it if people couldn't get it right, but it is beautiful, and different. :nod:

As it is, so many people call me Haley and Heather. :shrug: For some reason, Hillary is hard to remember.


I bet people want to spell it 'Hilary' too. I get things addressed to 'Christa' all the time.

[Johnny Stew]

Giving a parentless child two fathers or two mothers or one parent is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Beats being raised in an institution. Having 1 leg would suck, but it beats having two stumps.

However, I doubt if anyone, given the choice, would put having a mother and a father both raise them at number 2 or 3 on their list of ideal parenting situations.

I am of the mind that fathers and mothers both bring unique and crucial skills to the table in parenting. The balance of those often opposing energies helps to create more balanced individuals. Ideally.Yes, ideally having a mother and father is the best possible scenario. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world with far too many children who have no parents whatsoever, and I'm sorry, but I feel being raised by two fathers or two mothers is far better than being bounced from foster family to foster family, or languishing in an orphanage.

Lots of people, many through situations that are no fault of their own, find themselves raising a child as a single parent.
Is it ideal? No. But if you're loving, nurturing, supportive, and a good provider, that child will grow into a well-rounded adult, whether they had two parents of opposite genders or not.

And oh yeah, walk around Chelsea, Weho, Capitol Hill, Hillcrest, or any other gay mecca city...adopting babies is the new rainbow necklace, the new Madonna record, this decade's own handerkerchief code. It's ridiculous. People take it very lightly, and it smacks of playing house and aping straight people. I find it suspect.
Can adopting a kid be a selfless and honorable choice ? Certainly. Is it often in these cases ? Sketchy. Don't get me started on the rent-a-womb or turkey baster phenomenon. The ethics of those situations are pretty damned slippery.It all depends on the reasons it's being done.
If, as you said, these couples are doing it simply because "everyone else is," then that's a very sad thing indeed. Hopefully that's not the case... even if it appears trendy at first glance.

But I don't feel that, as gay men and women, we should limit our choices in life out of a fear that it will seem like we're trying to ape straight people.
We're not confined to club-hopping, pill-popping and promiscuous sex anymore. We don't need to straightjacket our own selves and limit our own choices. That's done enough for us.

[Johnny Stew]

The funny thing is....Dude! You're alive! How've you been?

[Johnny Stew]

As it is, so many people call me Haley and Heather. :shrug: For some reason, Hillary is hard to remember.I love the name Hillary, I think it's beautiful.

I went to school with a girl named Cecily... talk about a name people BUTCHER! :distress:

[markolas]

Wow, internalized homophobia (as well as gender stereotyping) is running amok on this thread. :distress:

[WelshWitchPMD]

It's the most insulting thing when someone gets your name wrong. I mean, we're talking about my identity here. ;)


I usually just give the name "Pat" like when I order food or something. You would be surprised at how many times they list me as "Cat" :rolleyes:

I have a friend named "Kim" and sometimes when we make a reservation it will be under "Tim". :laugh:

They are not big deals but they can be kind of funny.

I have people at work just call me "Pat" because they will never, ever spell "Pattie" correctly. Some new people will call me "Pam" or "Peg". :mad: What is wrong with some people? Are they just ignorant or stupid?

[sparky]

Wow, internalized homophobia (as well as gender stereotyping) is running amok on this thread. :distress:

Where oh WHERE might that be ?

:laugh:

[CreepingDeath]

Would you prefer I name my kid Apple? :laugh:

Here's some others for you to ponder:

Speck Wildhorse & Hud (John Mellencamp)
Sage Moonblood (Sylvester Stallone)
Camera (Arthur Ash)
Fuddy (Damon Wayans)
Seven (Erykah Badu)
Jermajesty (Jermaine Jackson)

:shocked:

[dissention]

Jermajesty (Jermaine Jackson)

:lol:

He's got another one crawling aorund called Spermajesty, too, right?

[sparky]

Yes, ideally having a mother and father is the best possible scenario. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world with far too many children who have no parents whatsoever, and I'm sorry, but I feel being raised by two fathers or two mothers is far better than being bounced from foster family to foster family, or languishing in an orphanage.

Exactly what I said.

Lots of people, many through situations that are no fault of their own, find themselves raising a child as a single parent.

And God Bless Em.

Is it ideal? No. But if you're loving, nurturing, supportive, and a good provider, that child will grow into a well-rounded adult, whether they had two parents of opposite genders or not.

In what Movie Of The Week ? I wouldn't bet the rent on that. If only that formula bore itself out consistently. It's way more complicated than that, methinks.


But I don't feel that, as gay men and women, we should limit our choices in life out of a fear that it will seem like we're trying to ape straight people.

Fear ? Hm. That doesn't compute. My issue with gay people making babies for themselves is really about the fact that a choice is made for a kid who doesn't have a voice. I think it's extremely self centered. Sure, people can make the best of it, but it's really about people "fulfilling" THEIR needs, no matter the cost. It is so 70's Me Generation. Sure it can all work out peachy, but I think there's a price paid for it. And it isn't coming out of the parent's pockets.


We're not confined to club-hopping, pill-popping and promiscuous sex anymore. We don't need to straightjacket our own selves and limit our own choices. That's done enough for us.

I certainly don't limit MYself. I wasn't aware that reliving the Mineshaft and Studio 54, or pretending you're June and Ward Cleaver were the only options. That seems like a couple of straighjackets right off the bat. The two utmost extremes.

[GateandGarden]

I bet people want to spell it 'Hilary' too. I get things addressed to 'Christa' all the time.Yes! OMG! Apparently, the one "l" is the most popular spelling. Some people are kind enough to ask if it has two "l"s so they don't make that mistake, but it seems to be everyone's first though to just spell it with one. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

Exactly what I said.I don't know... I kind of felt like what I said was a little different than your opinion that being raised by a same gender couple is only slightly preferable to getting poked in the eye with a stick. :shrug:

In what Movie Of The Week ? I wouldn't bet the rent on that. If only that formula bore itself out consistently. It's way more complicated than that, methinks.I know many people who were raised by one parent... some by their fathers... who turned out a lot more stable than many folks who had two parents.

We certainly know that growing up with both a mother and a father is no guarantee that a person will turn out "right."

I certainly don't limit MYself. I wasn't aware that reliving the Mineshaft and Studio 54, or pretending you're June and Ward Cleaver were the only options. That seems like a couple of straighjackets right off the bat. The two utmost extremes.You referred to raising a family with a partner as the "new gay trend," so I was simply referring to the "old gay trend," which seems to be based on far more shallow pursuits.

But, of course, those aren't the only two options.
All I'm saying is that we can have a "husband" and children if we want them. We're allowed to "nest," if we wish.
Why accuse people who want something deeper and more meaningful in their lives, of copying straight people?

[WelshWitchPMD]

Seven (Erykah Badu)


:shocked:

I wonder if she got that from Seinfeld. :lol: The one where George Costanza says he wants to name his future kid Seven.

[sparky]

I don't know... I kind of felt like what I said was a little different than your opinion that being raised by a same gender couple is only slightly preferable to getting poked in the eye with a stick. :shrug:

That's a figure of speech and there's no slightly about it. If you're talking about idealism, and what's best for kids, BEST is the point. Ideal. We're talking about molding people's lives.

I know many people who were raised by one parent... some by their fathers... who turned out a lot more stable than many folks who had two parents.

That's such a pop psych cop out justification of an argument. I know people who have smoked cigarettes for 60 years and didn't get cancer. It's not a reason to take up smoking. You don't make decisions that affect people's entire lives based on an exception to a statistically proven rule.

We certainly know that growing up with both a mother and a father is no guarantee that a person will turn out "right."

So why bother doing it at all ? And people with seat belts still get killed in car accidents. While we're at it, let's all take off the seat belts. They're really no guarantee at all.

You referred to raising a family with a partner as the "new gay trend," so I was simply referring to the "old gay trend," which seems to be based on far more shallow pursuits.

I don't know that raising kids is any less shallow than going to Studio 54 and doing coke with Andy Warhol. A dominant paradigm is a dominant paradigm. People can go ahead and try and reclaim Leave It To Beaver and call it new and meaningful if they want to. It doesn't make it meaningful. Most people are lemmings. There's a certain element to the trend of gay parenting that is rebellious and is done with a real f-you to society. It's a knee jerk reaction to being told one can't do something and basically that people can do whatever they want to regardless of the consequences just because it fulfills their needs. That is self indulgent. That is coming from an inital statement of "I want" or "I need".


All I'm saying is that we can have a "husband" and children if we want them. We're allowed to "nest," if we wish.

"We" can do whatever the hell we want to with our lives. Life is really all about what we want, after all. Pity we can't consult the kids before they're drug into it. I'm sure most of them would have opinions.

Why accuse people who want something deeper and more meaningful in their lives, of copying straight people?

If the shoe fits.

"Husband" ? Figure of speech or not, that is downright creepy. In all this freedom and doing whatever we want, how about forming some new ideas ?
If people want to break the mold, I say build a new one. The demand to change the cultural/religious institution of marriage is exactly the wrong battle. The Right Wing used that preposterous issue as a barbed club in the last election and kicked the asses of the entire Democratic party into a ditch.
And the subtext of that issue was children. It is a hot button suicide of a political question and took the quiet, steady struggle for gay rights back 20 years.

[GateandGarden]

So why bother doing it at all ? And people with seat belts still get killed in car accidents. While we're at it, let's all take off the seat belts. They're really no guarantee at all.What are you getting at there? I can't see how that coincides with what Brian said.

I don't know that raising kids is any less shallow than going to Studio 54 and doing coke with Andy Warhol. A dominant paradigm is a dominant paradigm. People can go ahead and try and reclaim Leave It To Beaver and call it new and meaningful if they want to. It doesn't make it meaningful. Most people are lemmings. There's a certain element to the trend of gay parenting that is rebellious and is done with a real f-you to society. It's a knee jerk reaction to being told one can't do something and basically that people can do whatever they want to regardless of the consequences just because it fulfills their needs. That is self indulgent. That is coming from an inital statement of "I want" or "I need". I agree that some people are like this, but you don't feel at least somewhat confident that Brian is not one of them?

"We" can do whatever the hell we want to with our lives. Life is really all about what we want, after all. Pity we can't consult the kids before they're drug into it. I'm sure most of them would have opinions.So, what is the answer to that? I wasn't consulted before I was brought into this world, and there were times when I've wished I was consulted beforehand. Those of us who are unhappy should kill ourselves? (I know you didn't mean that; I'm being sarcastic here).



If the shoe fits.

"Husband" ? Figure of speech or not, that is downright creepy. In all this freedom and doing whatever we want, how about forming some new ideas ?
If people want to break the mold, I say build a new one. The demand to change the cultural/religious institution of marriage is exactly the wrong battle. The Right Wing used that preposterous issue as a barbed club in the last election and kicked the asses of the entire Democratic party into a ditch.
And the subtext of that issue was children. It is a hot button suicide of a political question and took the quiet, steady struggle for gay rights back 20 years.If the shoe fits? What about procreation as something basic that a lot of human beings feel inclined to do? (I know, I know--some don't have the right intentions, as you've said, but others do). It isn't a desire that is exclusive to any sexual orientation. How could one by copying the other when people of all sexual orientations have been having children for centuries?

The whole fight for marriage is based on the idea that separate is not equal. If you want a separate instituion because you think heterosexual marriage is so corrupt, that's fine, but to me it's something of the symbolic equivalent of having different schools and bathrooms. :shrug: And I don't see why the word "husband" is so creepy. I think it's what you make it.

[cliffdweller]

In all this freedom and doing whatever we want, how about forming some new ideas ?If people want to break the mold, I say build a new one.


Baby steps. Sometimes you have to take babysteps and THEN break the mold. I agree with you, but I think it's first important to have the people of this country realize that gay marriage falls within the parameters of basic civil rights. To deny gay people the right to marry (and in turn reap the benefits that straight people do) is to invalidate their lifestyle, identity, culture, hence, their very human existence. If we could get past this huge hurdle, then perhaps some mold breaking would be in order. First though, we as a country need to stop the homophobia and this is tall order considering the results of the last election. Those results proved that the people of this country are more afraid of homosexuals marrying than sending their sons and daughters off to die in war. How backasswards is that?

[sparky]

What are you getting at there? I can't see how that coincides with what Brian said.

What I am getting at is just because there are exceptions to rules, it doesn't mean rules and actual results should be ignored in order that we can be free to do what feels fun and good to us.

I agree that some people are like this, but you don't feel at least somewhat confident that Brian is not one of them?


I didn't realize I was discussing Brian and his personal life. I am talking theoretically. This isn't personal.

So, what is the answer to that? I wasn't consulted before I was brought into this world, and there were times when I've wished I was consulted beforehand. Those of us who are unhappy should kill ourselves? (I know you didn't mean that; I'm being sarcastic here).

The answer ? I think the answer is that people shouldn't impose their choices on unwitting bystanders. Let's face it - it's a bitch growing up. And it isn't made any easier having two same gender parents. I am sure you could refer me to a dozen rosy articles written by people who say they wouldn't have it any other way. The fact remains that I don't think it's fair to saddle a kid with what may turn out to be an enormous obstacle. Should it be an obstacle ? Of course not. Should a child's life be used as an element in a social experiment that "wishes" people were kinder, more sensitive and politically correct ? Not on your life. (I will point out again here that I am talking not about adoptions but about making new kids.)

If the shoe fits? What about procreation as something basic that a lot of human beings feel inclined to do? (I know, I know--some don't have the right intentions, as you've said, but others do). It isn't a desire that is exclusive to any sexual orientation. How could one by copying the other when people of all sexual orientations have been having children for centuries?


There's a biological component, sure. I am referring to jumping in and buying into the whole 50's myth of a nuclear family. That is a dynamic with some serious flaws anyway. And BTW, while people of all orientations have been breeding for centuries they weren't hooting and hollering about getting married and registering at Baby Gap. LOL.


The whole fight for marriage is based on the idea that separate is not equal.

Dude, I don't need a class in civil rights history. That wasn't my point.

If you want a separate instituion because you think heterosexual marriage is so corrupt, that's fine, but to me it's something of the symbolic equivalent of having different schools and bathrooms. :shrug: And I don't see why the word "husband" is so creepy. I think it's what you make it.

I don't know that I am interested in institutions at all. I don't particularly care if the city or state approves of my relationships.

"Husband" is creepy because it implies there's a wife. Among other things. I could get into a rant here about semantics and historical power dynamics, but what's the point ? I think the relationship between two men is intrinsically different between that of a man and a woman, and that it is counterproductive to borrow a loaded term to define it. Talk to a few men who were married to women and have then gotten involved with men and I'd love to compare notes. The relationships are different animals altogether.

I am DYING to go on, but I have go to a meeting.

[Johnny Stew]

If you're talking about idealism, and what's best for kids, BEST is the point. Ideal. We're talking about molding people's lives.

You don't make decisions that affect people's entire lives based on an exception to a statistically proven rule.

So why bother doing it at all ? And people with seat belts still get killed in car accidents. While we're at it, let's all take off the seat belts. They're really no guarantee at all.There are no absolute guarantees in life, Sparky.
If we spent our entire lives basing decisions on a guaranteed result, we'd never do anything.

I absolutely feel that people need to think long and hard about whether or not they can properly raise a child, and whether or not they're ready and able to give up selfish tendencies to become the responsible, mature parent that a child needs and deserves.
But I couldn't disagree with you more on the notion that the only situation in which the responsibility of raising a child should be taken on, is if it's by two opposite gender parents.

I don't know that raising kids is any less shallow than going to Studio 54 and doing coke with Andy Warhol. A dominant paradigm is a dominant paradigm. People can go ahead and try and reclaim Leave It To Beaver and call it new and meaningful if they want to. It doesn't make it meaningful. Most people are lemmings. There's a certain element to the trend of gay parenting that is rebellious and is done with a real f-you to society. It's a knee jerk reaction to being told one can't do something and basically that people can do whatever they want to regardless of the consequences just because it fulfills their needs. That is self indulgent. That is coming from an inital statement of "I want" or "I need".You don't see how raising a child... providing for that child, nurturing that child, clothing, feeding, loving, and supporting that child... you don't see how that's less shallow than promiscuous sex and club-hopping (which I'd have to say is about the biggest dismissal of consequences and most profound embracement of need fulfillment there is in the gay community)?

"We" can do whatever the hell we want to with our lives. Life is really all about what we want, after all. Pity we can't consult the kids before they're drug into it. I'm sure most of them would have opinions.You might be relieved to know that the American Psychological Association had this to say:(T)here is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

"Husband" ? Figure of speech or not, that is downright creepy. In all this freedom and doing whatever we want, how about forming some new ideas ?
If people want to break the mold, I say build a new one.I believe we are forming new ideas and breaking the mold.
We're forming the idea that same-sex couples can have a strong, committed relationship, and raise a healthy, happy, well-adjusted child, in that loving, nurturing environment. It has nothing to do with copying some fictional TV family, or with stealing what straight people have. It's about embracing our potential as mates, parents, and human-beings.

If any mold needs broken, it's the one that paints us as amoral sex-addicts who have a preoccuption with our hair, clothes and bodies (and those of others). We know it's just a stereotype, but, sadly, as many gay men buy into it as straight people do.

The demand to change the cultural/religious institution of marriage is exactly the wrong battle. The Right Wing used that preposterous issue as a barbed club in the last election and kicked the asses of the entire Democratic party into a ditch.
And the subtext of that issue was children. It is a hot button suicide of a political question and took the quiet, steady struggle for gay rights back 20 years.The gay marriage issue was handled in the wrong way, absolutely. The debate left many people feeling as if everything they hold dear was being attacked. It rallied many people against us, but it also opened the eyes of many others to our "cause."
Progress was certainly made in many areas, and we'll learn from the mistakes that were made and move forward.

[Johnny Stew]

"Husband" is creepy because it implies there's a wife. Among other things. I could get into a rant here about semantics and historical power dynamics, but what's the point ?The use of "husband" was meant in short-hand. I could have just as easily said "mate," "spouse," "longtime companion," "partner" (a term that I personally loathe because it makes your relationship sound like a business arrangement), etc.

Ironically, many gay men are so preoccupied with identifying each other in terms of whether we're a "top" or "bottom"... which in and of itself is a labelling process to determine one's dominance or submissiveness... that "husband" and "wife" doesn't seem any worse in terms of relationship dynamics. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

What I am getting at is just because there are exceptions to rules, it doesn't mean rules and actual results should be ignored in order that we can be free to do what feels fun and good to us.I see what you're saying now. But why is it a "rule" that children are better off with opposite sex parents? If it is only because of society's perceptions, then that rule can change over time, right?

I didn't realize I was discussing Brian and his personal life. I am talking theoretically. This isn't personal.Well, I guess Brian is my example, then. He's someone who wants to raise children and has good intentions. I don't believe that he is being selfish. (But he already explained all of that in his last post).

The answer ? I think the answer is that people shouldn't impose their choices on unwitting bystanders. Let's face it - it's a bitch growing up. And it isn't made any easier having two same gender parents. I am sure you could refer me to a dozen rosy articles written by people who say they wouldn't have it any other way. The fact remains that I don't think it's fair to saddle a kid with what may turn out to be an enormous obstacle. Should it be an obstacle ? Of course not. Should a child's life be used as an element in a social experiment that "wishes" people were kinder, more sensitive and politically correct ? Not on your life. (I will point out again here that I am talking not about adoptions but about making new kids.) It seems to me that if you're going to say that, then you should tell biracial couples that they shouldn't be having children, either, especially because down here in hell, a.k.a. The Bible Belt, there isn't much acceptance for biracial children. Their lives are difficult. Would you tell those people not to have children as well? Also, how else will society become more accepting of children of gays if there aren't any? I know that the children suffer inevitably, but how else do we change society? Children who are gay suffer, but should we tell them not to come out of the closet to avoid that suffering?

There's a biological component, sure. I am referring to jumping in and buying into the whole 50's myth of a nuclear family. That is a dynamic with some serious flaws anyway. And BTW, while people of all orientations have been breeding for centuries they weren't hooting and hollering about getting married and registering at Baby Gap. LOL.And, even if it's unnecessary or ridiculous to some, shouldn't they be able to get married and register at the Baby Gap if that's what they want, considering those are privileges others are allowed?

Dude, I don't need a class in civil rights history. That wasn't my point.

I don't know that I am interested in institutions at all. I don't particularly care if the city or state approves of my relationships.But this isn't about just you. Why is it that whenever I debate the issue of marriage with another gay person who isn't for it they always say, "I have no desire to be approved of by city, state, government, etc"? If that isn't what you want for yourself, then don't pursue it. But I can't understand why it's okay with you to deny others of it.

"Husband" is creepy because it implies there's a wife. Among other things. I could get into a rant here about semantics and historical power dynamics, but what's the point ? I think the relationship between two men is intrinsically different between that of a man and a woman, and that it is counterproductive to borrow a loaded term to define it. Talk to a few men who were married to women and have then gotten involved with men and I'd love to compare notes. The relationships are different animals altogether.You may have a really good point here. Much of that (perhaps all) is beyond my understanding at this point not only because I'm not a guy but also because I haven't been involved in any of those types of relationships, so I can't really speak about them in that way.

[Johnny Stew]

It seems to me that if you're going to say that, then you should tell biracial couples that they shouldn't be having children, either, especially because down here in hell, a.k.a. The Bible Belt, there isn't much acceptance for biracial children. Their lives are difficult. Would you tell those people not to have children as well?Excellent point, Hillary.
Let's not forget that, in the not-so-distant past, many children were also ostracized if their parents were of different religions or different ethnicities/nationalities.

If we start down the road of determining which types of couples should or shouldn't have children...... well, let's just say that's a frightening notion.

[dissention]

Excellent point, Hillary.
Let's not forget that, in the not-so-distant past, many children were also ostracized if their parents were of different religions or different ethnicities/nationalities.

If we start down the road of determining which types of couples should or shouldn't have children...... well, let's just say that's a frightening notion.

I can hear the flaming already, but here goes. :laugh: And it's not directed at anyone, it's just a general statement.

I think what Sparks is trying to get at, at least what I've gotten from it, is that the desire to have children is essentially a selfish one. I don't think that just applies to gay men and women, but to heterosexuals, too. People want to have or adopt kids primarily because they want to be able to look at the kid and say to themselves 'Look what I've done. I raised a child.' Humans have paternal and maternal instincts wired into them, it's natural to want to breed and raise kids. But that doesn't make it any less unselfish; people have kids for the personal satisfaction of doing so. I mean, why else would people who were ostracized because of their religion or ethnicity or nationality continue to have children? Surely they knew that their children would face the same society that they were faced with. They had them because they wanted them.

In terms of gay couples having children, I always look at it from the child's point of view. For example, how are they going to be treated by their peers and society growing up with two moms or two dads? Whereas one might grow up perfectly fine and not be hassled by it, others won't have that luxury. They might be teased about having "fags" for dads or "dykes" for moms, or have the notion that they're somehow less worthy because of their domestic situation pounded into their brains on a daily basis. How does it affect the kid? I think that's the most important thing that should be taken into consideration when the topic of same-sex couples is broached, the paternal or maternal instincts and wishes to have a child should not, in my opinion, because they are not what is important.

It certainly isn't fair that kids from same-sex homes are treated differently, just as it isn't fair that same-sex couples are treated differently than heterosexual couples. It isn't fair that, as Hillary pointed out, biracial children are treated differently than other children. I find it to be disgusting. But that's the society we live in, unfortunately. While it's nice to say that couples are working to change that by proving that they can be fit parents and can raise healthy children, the reality of the matter is that the general population is not going to adapt to that idea any more than George Bush is going to adapt to liberalism, and that means that the children will possibly be ostracized.

I'm all for same-sex couples adopting, just as I am for heterosexual couples adopting. But unlike heterosexual couples, there's an added element to same-sex couple adoptions that could make life harder on the child. As long as that is acknowledged and the parents are ready to deal with it, though, more power to them. Just make sure that the adoption is in the best interests of the child and not just to fulfill your paternal or maternal desires.

[EnchantedSLN]

It seems to me that if you're going to say that, then you should tell biracial couples that they shouldn't be having children, either, especially because down here in hell, a.k.a. The Bible Belt, there isn't much acceptance for biracial children. Their lives are difficult. Would you tell those people not to have children as well? Also, how else will society become more accepting of children of gays if there aren't any?


Why stop there? Poor people, people of color, people in less stable countries... anyone who is predisposed to having any kind of adversity in his or her life should simply not have children because the children aren't consulted before being brought into the world. By that rationale no one should procreate. Some genetic mutation might occur causing a condition or disability that could make growing up a little harder. Kids don't get to preapprove their parents' DNA.

Obviously, there's an element of choice involved where gay individuals decide whether to have children, while most of us don't know what's going to happen when we mix our genetic stuff up with someone else's, but suggesting that a couple shouldn't have a child in either case is ridiculous. Life isn't perfect. We don't get to sign consent forms before we pop out. If we're lucky, we're recieved by someone who loves us and will do they best they can for us.

I know Sparks isn't trying to say no one should have kids. And yes, I think a lot of people, straight or gay, do have children for selfish reasons, and that's unfortunate, but not everyone who wants to have kids does so because it's trendy.

[GateandGarden]

I agree with most of what you're saying, Josh, except that the inherent desire to have children is a selfish one; I think that applies to only some people. I'm still not sure if that's exactly what Sparky was getting at or not. :shrug:

[The Tower]

Oy. I love how threads turn into this stuff. My two cents...

I think "husband" is soooo creepy, in terms of gay relationships. It screams of the implication that somehow the only way to have a gay relationship is for the relationship to be in the mold of a straight relationship (and who the hell wants that?).

All this baby making is outta control. People hardly ever think of the consequences of having a child. At least gay people actually have to really decide to do it- so that inherently puts a little more thought into the creation of a child.

I personally have no interest in raising a kid. Disposable income, my personal freedom and knowing that I'm not screwing up someone's life are much more desired and enjoyable aspects of my life that I'm glad I don't have to give up (thank heavens I'm gay).

Gay marriage? Eh- marriage is overrated and unnecessary anyways. I don't need no piece of paper from the City Hall, keeping me tight and true- my old man keeps away those blues.

I think the ability to have a child should be licensed, but that'll never happen. Childbirth- the biggest and most far-affecting entitlement program ever. The piles of taxes I pay go towards making sure that all this unregulated baby-making is taken care of with no return whatsoever. I never want to hear anyone bitch to me about having to pay taxes.

[GateandGarden]

Why stop there? Poor people, people of color, people in less stable countries... anyone who is predisposed to having any kind of adversity in his or her life should simply not have children because the children aren't consulted before being brought into the world. By that rationale no one should procreate. Some genetic mutation might occur causing a condition or disability that could make growing up a little harder. Kids don't get to preapprove their parents' DNA.

Obviously, there's an element of choice involved where gay individuals decide whether to have children, while most of us don't know what's going to happen when we mix our genetic stuff up with someone else's, but suggesting that a couple shouldn't have a child in either case is ridiculous. Life isn't perfect. We don't get to sign consent forms before we pop out. If we're lucky, we're recieved by someone who loves us and will do they best they can for us.

I know you're not trying to say no one should have kids. And yes, I think a lot of people, straight or gay, do have children for selfish reasons, and that's unfortunate.Agreed. And I agree with most everything Josh said because he acknowledged potential hardships but never actually said that gay people shouldn't be having children because of them. :shrug: That's not what I'm getting from sparky. Yeah, I could keep going, but you've explained my sentiments well, Tiff.

[dissention]

I agree with most of what you're saying, Josh, except that the inherent desire to have children is a selfish one; I think that applies to only some people. I'm still not sure if that's exactly what Sparky was getting at or not. :shrug:

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness. The desire to have kids is wired into us from birth; we're humans. We have kids to scratch those paternal and maternal itches. I don't understand how anyone could say that having kids isn't selfish. Either we have them because our biological clocks are ticking, or we have them because we believe we have something to offer the child. Or we adopt less fortunate kids because it gives them a better life and it provides us with self-satisfaction. Either way, they're both different variations of selfishness, in my opinion. I'm not looking down on it, don't get me wrong, I think it's natural.

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?

[The Tower]

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?
Selfishness.

[dissention]

Selfishness.

Wiseass. :laugh: :xoxo:

[wondergirl9847]

I've never had the desire to have children. I'm almost 29. Maybe when I hit my 30's, isn't that when the clock really starts ticking? Not a clue. Anyways, I don't have a maternal bone in my body. :laugh:

Of course, falling in love could spur something, but no clue, I've never been in love. :(

[dissention]

That's not what I'm getting from sparky.

He's talking about Rent-A-Womb's ( :lol: ), not adoption.

(I will point out again here that I am talking not about adoptions but about making new kids.)

[amber]

I think the ability to have a child should be licensed, but that'll never happen. Childbirth- the biggest and most far-affecting entitlement program ever. The piles of taxes I pay go towards making sure that all this unregulated baby-making is taken care of with no return whatsoever. I never want to hear anyone bitch to me about having to pay taxes.
Huzzah! :xoxo:

[The Tower]

Huzzah! :xoxo:
Ya know- people in my life (at work mostly) get knocked-up and then have this shock of incredulous disbelief that I'm not ecstatic about the situation. I just don't get it.

I have actually been invited to baby showers.... :eek: :eek: How ****ed up is that??

OY!

[amber]

Ya know- people in my life (at work mostly) get knocked-up and then have this shock of incredulous disbelief that I'm not ecstatic about the situation. I just don't get it.

I have actually been invited to baby showers.... :eek: :eek: How ****ed up is that??

OY!
:shrug:
I dunno. I hate the whole "miracle" aspect myself. :shrug:

[dissention]

I have actually been invited to baby showers.... :eek: :eek: How ****ed up is that??

Pretty ****ed up. I can't tell you how many friends have fallen by the wayside after they've had kids. I swear, they think they're supreme beings just because they let those tadpoles loose.

[amber]

Pretty ****ed up. I can't tell you how many friends have fallen by the wayside after they've had kids. I swear, they think they're supreme beings just because they let those tadpoles loose.
Exactly. The "miracle" thing. As if everything on the planet didn't procreate... :laugh:

[wondergirl9847]

Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a DAD. Insert mother, woman and MOM in the sentence as well. So you are pregnant, yay you, but can you PARENT?

Most of my family wants me to get married and pregnant so bad, for some wierd reason. I guess because all of my cousins are married with kids, divorced and re-married. LOL No thanks, if I marry, I want it to be for life.

I remember I declined to go to one of my cousin's baby showers and my aunt calls to ask if I'm going. I say "No." and she goes "Well, when you have a baby, we won't come to your shower."

Thanks. :rolleyes:

Miracle of life...gag me. It's only a miracle if you are told you'll never have children and then do.

[The Tower]

Pretty ****ed up. I can't tell you how many friends have fallen by the wayside after they've had kids. I swear, they think they're supreme beings just because they let those tadpoles loose.
About four years ago, I made the mistake of allowing my sister to stay with me for four of five days- her, her idiot Dubya loving husband (he referred to me as a "tree-hugger" while sitting on my couch, eating my food, and watching my tee-vee :rolleyes: ), her five-year old, her two-year old and her seven month old fetus.

At one point during her fabulous stay, she complained about the fact that she has actually been to restaurants, movie theaters and entertainment complexes that did not provide baby changing stations in their restrooms.

I didn't even have the desire to invest the energy to point anything out to her, I just wanted her out, out, OUT!!!

Some of the other enchanting things that happened during her stay:

1) Showing up at my house broke and not telling me (she spent all her money during the previous two weeks with other family members).

2) Her husband going to the grocery store with my partner to get dinner stuff and proceeding to load up the cart on all kinds of things such as diapers, etc. and not offering any money-knowing full well that my partner is a gentleman and wouldn't be crass enough to ask for money.

3) Asking me and my partner to babysit their two kids on a Saturday night so they could go visit their friends in Santa Monica- AND asking to borrow our car for no reason rather than drive their own car (they didn't want to use up any more of their gas than they had to).

4) Leaving to go back home during the day while we were at work, and not mentioning the fact that their two-year old had pulled all the strings of off my classical guitar. No mention, no money to fix it, no apology, no nothing.

Charming people, huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness. The desire to have kids is wired into us from birth; we're humans. We have kids to scratch those paternal and maternal itches. I don't understand how anyone could say that having kids isn't selfish. Either we have them because our biological clocks are ticking, or we have them because we believe we have something to offer the child. Or we adopt less fortunate kids because it gives them a better life and it provides us with self-satisfaction. Either way, they're both different variations of selfishness, in my opinion. I'm not looking down on it, don't get me wrong, I think it's natural.

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?I don't know. I've never thought of it as anything other than "natural," though it's not natural to everyone, if that makes sense. I just can't bring myself to call it selfish when I think about my Mom. She would do absolutely anything for me. Y'all just have no idea; she truly is the best. I couldn't have asked for someone better. Was her original desire to have me a selfish one? She has given up so much to ensure my happiness. I can't dream of calling any of her actions selfish. She's very, very rarely a selfish person in my eyes.

And I'm interested to hear from someone who has children. I feel like that person is better qualified to answer that question, no? :shrug:

[wondergirl9847]

At one point during her fabulous stay, she complained about the fact that she has actually been to restaurants, movie theaters and entertainment complexes that did not provide baby changing stations in their restrooms.


Um, yeah, our parents made it without those things, I think ya'll can too.

Yep, they sound great. LOL

[GateandGarden]

At one point during her fabulous stay, she complained about the fact that she has actually been to restaurants, movie theaters and entertainment complexes that did not provide baby changing stations in their restrooms.I think children shouldn't be allowed in a lot of those places, but I suppose that's another thread. I really like the idea of child-free restaurants. I can't stand how some people think they should be able to bring their children anywhere they want to go.

[DrummerDeanna]

I don't know. I've never thought of it as anything other than "natural," though it's not natural to everyone, if that makes sense. I just can't bring myself to call it selfish when I think about my Mom. She would do absolutely anything for me. Y'all just have no idea; she truly is the best. I couldn't have asked for someone better. Was her original desire to have me a selfish one? She has given up so much to ensure my happiness. I can't dream of calling any of her actions selfish. She's very, very rarely a selfish person in my eyes.

And I'm interested to hear from someone who has children. I feel like that person is better qualified to answer that question, no? :shrug:


Right? My sister wasn't a planned pregnancy....so she was not conceived in selfishness :shrug:

And yeah - looking at what my mom had to go through when my dad left? NOT selfish...lets see...working her ASS off just to feed and clothe us...having to saccrifice things she wanted and wanted to do to make our life ok....not selfish :shrug:

I don't know - I don't think there can be a blanket statement that wanting to be a parent is selfish.

I want to adopt children - or be a foster parent and not once have I thought about doing it so that I can bask in who/what they become :shrug: I wanted to because there are so many heinous stories about what foster children have to go through and I would like to be there to offer a bit of stability to children who may not otherwise have any :shrug:

[dissention]

About four years ago, I made the mistake of allowing my sister to stay with me for four of five days- her, her idiot Dubya loving husband (he referred to me as a "tree-hugger" while sitting on my couch, eating my food, and watching my tee-vee :rolleyes: ), her five-year old, her two-year old and her seven month old fetus.

At one point during her fabulous stay, she complained about the fact that she has actually been to restaurants, movie theaters and entertainment complexes that did not provide baby changing stations in their restrooms.

I didn't even have the desire to invest the energy to point anything out to her, I just wanted her out, out, OUT!!!

Some of the other enchanting things that happened during her stay:

1) Showing up at my house broke and not telling me (she spent all her money during the previous two weeks with other family members).

2) Her husband going to the grocery store with my partner to get dinner stuff and proceeding to load up the cart on all kinds of things such as diapers, etc. and not offering any money-knowing full well that my partner is a gentleman and wouldn't be crass enough to ask for money.

3) Asking me and my partner to babysit their two kids on a Saturday night so they could go visit their friends in Santa Monica- AND asking to borrow our car for no reason rather than drive their own car (they didn't want to use up any more of their gas than they had to).

4) Leaving to go back home during the day while we were at work, and not mentioning the fact that their two-year old had pulled all the strings of off my classical guitar. No mention, no money to fix it, no apology, no nothing.

Charming people, huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:shocked:

I would have had a stroke. Family is family, but no one has to put up with freeloaders. I would have asked them to leave until they discovered manners.

I let my uncle stay with me for a week (the one I absolutely despise) when he was getting divorced and I ended up kicking him out. He was a total asshole to begin with, but when I came home from work and saw him smoking when I had specifically told him that I would not allow it in my house, I literally ripped him a new asshole. Told him to pack his rags and leave because I wasn't his sugar tit and if he wasn't going to respect my home, he had no business being there.

[bikerchic]

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?
Oh, I don't know........here's a theory, how about LOVE.

[DrummerDeanna]

I think children shouldn't be allowed in a lot of those places, but I suppose that's another thread. I really like the idea of child-free restaurants. I can't stand how some people think they should be able to bring their children anywhere they want to go.



LOL...and ANOTHER bit of agreement from me :D

My sister and her husband NEVER subjected random people to my nephew's screamin - granted he only tried the tantrum thing once, realized he couldn't get away with it then was a pretty good kid in public.

ANyway - I HATE HATE HATE when parents let their kids scream their heads off at restaurants and do nothing...SO annoying...

The worst was once - I was in a restaurant and these parents brought their toddler...with a TOY PIANO...it was ANNOYING...the whole restaurant was flashing them dirty looks as their kids was pounding away on this stupid toy...:mad:

[dissention]

Right? My sister wasn't a planned pregnancy....so she was not conceived in selfishness :shrug:

And I was specifically referring to planned children.

[GateandGarden]

And I was specifically referring to planned children.But what about the rest of that post? It wasn't just about her sister.

[GateandGarden]

Right? My sister wasn't a planned pregnancy....so she was not conceived in selfishness :shrug:

And yeah - looking at what my mom had to go through when my dad left? NOT selfish...lets see...working her ASS off just to feed and clothe us...having to saccrifice things she wanted and wanted to do to make our life ok....not selfish :shrug:

I don't know - I don't think there can be a blanket statement that wanting to be a parent is selfish.

I want to adopt children - or be a foster parent and not once have I thought about doing it so that I can bask in who/what they become :shrug: I wanted to because there are so many heinous stories about what foster children have to go through and I would like to be there to offer a bit of stability to children who may not otherwise have any :shrug:I agree on all accounts and think it is far from selfish to want to adopt.

[dissention]

But what about the rest of that post? It wasn't just about her sister.


It didn't really address my initial point about the desire to have/bear children. :shrug:

I think it's great that she wants to adopt, too.

[bikerchic]

I think children shouldn't be allowed in a lot of those places, but I suppose that's another thread. I really like the idea of child-free restaurants. I can't stand how some people think they should be able to bring their children anywhere they want to go.

I used to think that way too before I had kids but now that I do have children I feel differently. Provided you keep them quiet and they are well behaved then it's not such a problem otherwise take them to McDonalds or a "family restaurant"!

[dissention]

I think children shouldn't be allowed in a lot of those places, but I suppose that's another thread. I really like the idea of child-free restaurants. I can't stand how some people think they should be able to bring their children anywhere they want to go.


Oy, don't even get me started on the asses who bring their children to adult movies. I want to smack 'em, especially the ones who bring their BABIES. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

LOL...and ANOTHER bit of agreement from me :D

My sister and her husband NEVER subjected random people to my nephew's screamin - granted he only tried the tantrum thing once, realized he couldn't get away with it then was a pretty good kid in public.

ANyway - I HATE HATE HATE when parents let their kids scream their heads off at restaurants and do nothing...SO annoying...

The worst was once - I was in a restaurant and these parents brought their toddler...with a TOY PIANO...it was ANNOYING...the whole restaurant was flashing them dirty looks as their kids was pounding away on this stupid toy...:mad:OMG. They actually brought a toy piano in the restaurant. How impolite can you get? Geez. When my brothers (who were only two years apart) were babies, my parents just didn't go out like that, except on the very rare occasion that someone else was going to take care of them. They weren't dragged to nice restaurants, or movies rated anything other than G or PG, for that matter. When I went to see House of Sand and Fog, I almost screamed at this woman with a screaming baby, in frickin' House of Sand and Fog! WTF? Okay, I'll stop. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

I used to think that way too before I had kids but now that I do have children I feel differently. Provided you keep them quiet and they are well behaved then it's not such a problem otherwise take them to McDonalds or a "family restaurant"!I guess my problem is that I haven't encountered very many children who could behave in that setting. But you're right--it's all a matter of how the parent discipline's the child. Some kids are capable of sitting quietly. Why do they seem like endangered species to me? :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

It didn't really address my initial point about the desire to have/bear children. :shrug:I guess I don't get it. Deanna's mom and mine were being selfish in wanting to have us? I can't say that about my Mom because she made a conscious decision to have me and give up a lot of things in her life that made her happy, for me. She knew, going into it, that her life was going to change dramatically and she was willing to sacrifice for me. How is that desire selfish? I just don't get it. :shrug:

[dissention]

I guess I don't get it. Deanna's mom and mine were being selfish in wanting to have us? I can't say that about my Mom because she made a conscious decision to have me and give up a lot of things in her life that made her happy, for me. She knew, going into it, that her life was going to change dramatically and she was willing to sacrifice for me. How is that desire selfish? I just don't get it. :shrug:


Then nothing I say will make you get how I feel. :shrug: The key word is "want".

[SuzeQuze]

I used to think that way too before I had kids but now that I do have children I feel differently. Provided you keep them quiet and they are well behaved then it's not such a problem otherwise take them to McDonalds or a "family restaurant"!

Right. I love seeing well-behaved kids out. :D They're so cute. It's the anarchic ones that ruin it for the good ones. :distress: I can't believe how much cynicism is here on this board about children. :eek: Waitaminnut, cynicism/this board, um, oh yeah. :p Kids are little miracles! I mean, a couple of cells come together and boom, they start dividing and create this life which we still don't know how to define.

On the other hand I do understand the cynic's point of view because up until my late 20s I thought that babies were just overpopulating the planet and making things worse so it was stupid to have them. :laugh: But it's all about family, man. :woohoo:

However, I'm perpetually single, will be 34 in a month :eek:, and I have no desire to be a single mother so I don't know if I will get to have a child or not. Yes, the clock really starts to tick in your late 20s. But I don't let it guide my life like I'm a crazed thirty something trying to trap a husband! Blech. Only for love. And only if we're both happy!

Oh crap, I'm supposed to be working, how'd I get caught up in this? It's so hard to focus cuz the office is empty due to Good Friday.

[Johnny Stew]

ANyway - I HATE HATE HATE when parents let their kids scream their heads off at restaurants and do nothing...SO annoying...You should see what people let their kids get away with in a library! Some people walk through those doors and seem to develop amnesia, forgetting that the little people who walked in with them are their children and their responsibility.

We once had a woman who sat at one of our public computers, IMing her friends, and watching videos, while her baby laid in a car-seat on the floor next to her and SCREAMED at the top of its lungs for a good 10 minutes.

My co-worker walked over and asked her to quiet the baby or please leave, and the woman laid into her, shouting obscenities and calling her a "heartless old bitch."
Mind you, the co-worker in question is a woman in her early 80s.
I intervened quickly and the patron left amid an additional flood of obscenities and rude comments, and threats of "reporting us."
To whom she thought she could report us, I have no idea.

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother. ;) :laugh:

[dissention]

But I don't let it guide my life like I'm a crazed thirty something trying to trap a husband!

Otherwise known as Ally McBeal Syndrome. "I can't stop this feeling deep inside of me..."

Let us know when the dancing baby appears to you at night. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

Then nothing I say will make you get how I feel. :shrug: The key word is "want".So, any time someone wants anything, regardless of the reasoning behind it, it's selfishness? :shrug:

Deanna "wants" to adopt. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother. ;) :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[dissention]

So, any time someone wants anything, regardless of the reasoning behind it, it's selfishness? :shrug:

Deanna "wants" to adopt. :shrug:

There's always an underlying current of selfishness, whether it's strong or faint, whenever someone wants something. You seem to be using selfish as a negative term when it isn't necessarily so.

[GateandGarden]

There's always an underlying current of selfishness, whether it's strong or faint, whenever someone wants something. You seem to be using selfish as a negative term when it isn't necessarily so.Okay, well, I think you're changing your story. Initially, you said it could only be described as selfish, though it is a natural selfishness. Now you're saying it can be faint, or underlying selfishness. That is more believable to me. Much more believeable, actually. And I understand that selfishness is not always a bad thing, but when it comes to the decision to have or not have children, I think selfishness is a really bad motivation.

[SuzeQuze]

...

But, hey, at least that kid had a mother. ;) :laugh:

Oh and what a mother she was!

[SuzeQuze]

Otherwise known as Ally McBeal Syndrome. "I can't stop this feeling deep inside of me..."

Let us know when the dancing baby appears to you at night. :laugh:

:laugh: :eek: She was rediculous looking for her "one true love". Jesus get a grip lady. I intend to have hundreds of true loves. ;) :lol: Of course I'm exagerating... at least a little bit. :p

[dissention]

Okay, well, I think you're changing your story. Initially, you said it could only be described as selfish, though it is a natural selfishness. Now you're saying it can be faint, or underlying selfishness. That is more believable to me. Much more believeable, actually. And I understand that selfishness is not always a bad thing, but when it comes to the decision to have or not have children, I think selfishness is a really bad motivation.

I'm not changing anything. Selfishness is selfishness and I initially stated:

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness.

[dissention]

:laugh: :eek: She was rediculous looking for her "one true love". Jesus get a grip lady. I intend to have hundreds of true loves. ;) :lol: Of course I'm exagerating... at least a little bit. :p

I loved it the first two seasons, but man, it got awful later on down the road. :laugh:

[The Tower]

We once had a woman who sat at one of our public computers, IMing her friends, and watching videos, while her baby laid in a car-seat on the floor next to her and SCREAMED at the top of its lungs for a good 10 minutes.

My co-worker walked over and asked her to quiet the baby or please leave, and the woman laid into her, shouting obscenities and calling her a "heartless old bitch."
Mind you, the co-worker in question is a woman in her early 80s.
I intervened quickly and the patron left amid an additional flood of obscenities and rude comments, and threats of "reporting us."
To whom she thought she could report us, I have no idea.
Classy. Verrrrry classy....

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.

[GateandGarden]

I believe that everyone has children for selfish reasons, the only thing that fluctuates from person to person and couple to couple is the degree of selfishness. The desire to have kids is wired into us from birth; we're humans. We have kids to scratch those paternal and maternal itches. I don't understand how anyone could say that having kids isn't selfish. Either we have them because our biological clocks are ticking, or we have them because we believe we have something to offer the child. Or we adopt less fortunate kids because it gives them a better life and it provides us with self-satisfaction. Either way, they're both different variations of selfishness, in my opinion. I'm not looking down on it, don't get me wrong, I think it's natural.

But, in all seriousness, what would you call the desire to have children?Okay, pondering all that you've said more, I understand what you're saying, but think that if you presented it to the average person and said "Yes, I do think there is always some amount of selfishness going into wanting to have children" people aren't going to get that you don't mean that in a bad way. It's hard to get around the fact that that word has a really negative connotation. But, honestly, I'm thinking about it and I can't see any selfishness in my Mom wanting to have me. It's not like she really thought so much of herself that she thought she had a world to offer me because was going to be this fantastic parent. She's never been that full of herself. I understand what you're saying in theory, but cannot find a way to apply it to my Mom. I'm guessing others would have that problem, too. Even when I try to look at "selfish" in a good way, I just don't see it. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.If that's practical, then I suppose it works, but I certainly can't afford to do that. :laugh:

[dissention]

Okay, pondering all that you've said more, I understand what you're saying, but think that if you presented it to the average person and said "Yes, I do think there is always some amount of selfishness going into wanting to have children" people aren't going to get that you don't mean that in a bad way. It's hard to get around the fact that that word has a really negative connotation.

I can only present it, it's up to them to think about and ponder what I'm saying. If no one gets it, at least I do. :laugh:

But, honestly, I'm thinking about it and I can't see any selfishness in my Mom wanting to have me. It's not like she really thought so much of herself that she thought she had a world to offer me because was going to be this fantastic parent. She's never been that full of herself. I understand what you're saying in theory, but cannot find a way to apply it to my Mom. I'm guessing others would have that problem, too. Even when I try to look at "selfish" in a good way, I just don't see it. :shrug:

Why did she want kids, if you don't mind my asking? Did she want the self-satisfaction that raising a child provides? Did she want to put her maternal instincts to work?

[DrummerDeanna]

Classy. Verrrrry classy....

Now you know why I never go out anymore. The world is totally being ruined by inconsiderate, classless people. I have no tolerance for it anymore, so I just stay home.


Here here :wavey: I HATE going out in public...I thougt it was just me lol..and that I was becoming unhealthily anti-social...but now I'm beginning to see it's others ...not me :laugh:

[The Tower]

Here here :wavey: I HATE going out in public...I thougt it was just me lol..and that I was becoming unhealthily anti-social...but now I'm beginning to see it's others ...not me :laugh:
Honey, Brian's story is just the tip of the iceberg of the type of behavior that I can't deal with anymore. For me, it's gotten so bad that I almost can't deal with simple stuff like the grocery store anymore.

Hello?? If one is selecting objects from one side of the aisle, don't park your cart next to the other side of the aisle, effectively blocking anyone else from getting down the aisle. And don't give me dirty looks and/or ignore me when I'm polite enough to say "excuse me".

That's just the little, piddley ****- I could go on all day....

[GateandGarden]

Why did she want kids, if you don't mind my asking? Did she want the self-satisfaction that raising a child provides? Did she want to put her maternal instincts to work?Wellllllllll, since you asked that, I think I can see the selfish aspect, though I don't mean that in a bad way, obviously. The first two kids she had weren't planned, so she didn't really know why she was having them. But I was planned because she had had two boys and she told me that ever since she was young, she had dreamed that she could have a little girl. Hence the third try, and the third time's a charm, apparently. So, I understand your point.

[amber]

Apparently, children bring great joy, which is probably something we can't understand until we have them :shrug: My dad says he doesn't really like anyone else's kids... :lol: And actually, I was a choice, too - my dad's choice, specifically. :shrug: My parents thoughtfully kept it to one, though.. :D

[SuzeQuze]

Honey, Brian's story is just the tip of the iceberg of the type of behavior that I can't deal with anymore. For me, it's gotten so bad that I almost can't deal with simple stuff like the grocery store anymore.

Hello?? If one is selecting objects from one side of the aisle, don't park your cart next to the other side of the aisle, effectively blocking anyone else from getting down the aisle. And don't give me dirty looks and/or ignore me when I'm polite enough to say "excuse me".

That's just the little, piddley ****- I could go on all day....

Ahh, the grocery store. I freaking hate it. I identify so much with what you are saying. But I won't let them make me stay in, dammit! One thing that I really hate :mad: is while walking in the city people walking toward you do not give you space enough to get by and I always want to yell, DO YOU THINK I'M F*CKING TRANSPARENT!!!

I flashed this guy in a Jeep the Loser sign today because his light turned green and some people were about to cross. Instead of stopping for the red light he beeped his horn!!! Yes Tower, idiots, they're everywhere and it makes me crazy too. Makes me just want to belt them. :distress: :laugh:

I don't know why people do not have the most rudimentary manners anymore. :eek: I was raised to look out for other people but I have had to reel in that instinct in order to preserve myself! This girl asked me for directions this morning and it always takes me a moment to gather my thoughts when this happens. Most people are patient since I am helping them, but she was sighing and clicking her toungue! Stupid b*tch. Ahh, I feel better. :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

Apparently, children bring great joy, which is probably something we can't understand until we have them :shrug: My dad says he doesn't really like anyone else's kids... :lol: And actually, I was a choice, too - my dad's choice, specifically. :shrug: My parents thoughtfully kept it to one, though.. :D

Or someone close to you has them. My aunt lived with us when she had her baby, Bridgette. So she lived with us for her first year and it was amazing. :nod: I am an idealist of course but it's just amazing to watch an infant go from doing absolutely nothing to smiling, laughing, crawling, etc. But unfortunately her mother wouldn't have passed that parenting license test. She was a good mother to the baby but now Bridgette is 16 and not so much. :distress: Dammit I just negated my point. :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

Or someone close to you has them. My aunt lived with us when she had her baby, Bridgette. So she lived with us for her first year and it was amazing. :nod: I am an idealist of course but it's just amazing to watch an infant go from doing absolutely nothing to smiling, laughing, crawling, etc. But unfortunately her mother wouldn't have passed that parenting license test. She was a good mother to the baby but now Bridgette is 16 and not so much. :distress: Dammit I just negated my point. :laugh:


I know what you mean...I moved in with my sister and her husband when my nephew was born - I was his nanny for a year and a half - it was the greatest experience...I love that little guy - and as a result of my nannying we are very close...I miss him terribly..he's 5 1/2 now - and I want him to stop growing lol...I don't want him to turn into a scary teenager....:distress:

[amber]

Or someone close to you has them. My aunt lived with us when she had her baby, Bridgette. So she lived with us for her first year and it was amazing. :nod: I am an idealist of course but it's just amazing to watch an infant go from doing absolutely nothing to smiling, laughing, crawling, etc. But unfortunately her mother wouldn't have passed that parenting license test. She was a good mother to the baby but now Bridgette is 16 and not so much. :distress: Dammit I just negated my point. :laugh:
Yeah, all my friends and my boss have kids, but still. They're ok, but...they're also squalling uber brats. It is amazing how they develop, though. :nod: god, i lived with my best friend when her first kid was 1 1/2, and I wanted to kill them both. She was a bratty brat brat, though. Now, she's a delightful 11 year old, but still..

[DrummerDeanna]

yikes...now my nephew had some friends that were uber brats - and he did start trying to act up when around them...my sister and her husband are very strict on the behaviour front though....he pretty much tries bad things once and realizes he can't get away with them....and oh yeah....my nephew? Pretty much the only kid I truly adore lol....not a fan of random kids so much....


My nephew is great though (yes I'm completely biased) - he's OBSESSED with animals...LOVES them...he likes just plain animals more than any mass produced shoved in your face kid character or show...it's awesome...and now that he can read?

Apparently he was giving presentations at the zoo yesterday. He's stop and read the stuff at the animal displays for anyone who would listen :rolleyes: I miss him SO much lol....

[amber]

yikes...now my nephew had some friends that were uber brats - and he did start trying to act up when around them...my sister and her husband are very strict on the behaviour front though....he pretty much tries bad things once and realizes he can't get away with them....and oh yeah....my nephew? Pretty much the only kid I truly adore lol....not a fan of random kids so much....


My nephew is great though (yes I'm completely biased) - he's OBSESSED with animals...LOVES them...he likes just plain animals more than any mass produced shoved in your face kid character or show...it's awesome...and now that he can read?

Apparently he was giving presentations at the zoo yesterday. He's stop and read the stuff at the animal displays for anyone who would listen :rolleyes: I miss him SO much lol....
He actually does sound cool. :) He's like, a kid i would want.

[DrummerDeanna]

He actually does sound cool. :) He's like, a kid i would want.


Well I do think he's pretty cool....and recently he got all into musical theater :laugh: My sister and her husband took him to see Guys and Dolls....his rendition of "Luck Be a Lady" is hilarious!!!!

So yeah...my sister and brother-in-law (conservative Republicans) are preparing themselves that their theater loving-animal loving son is going to be a raging liberal :blob1: I have done my job as an aunt ;)


OH - and yes - he can identify Stevie on the radio thanks to his aunt...and he LOVES "It's Late" lol....likes to listen to it with me over and over - ah...I need to plan a trip to NM to see him :(