Fleetwood Mac's Best Produced Song [Archive]

AliP

03-01-2005, 05:42 PM

So what do you think is FM's best produced song?? (If it's also your favorite song, that's fine. But don't choose a song ONLY because its your favorite).

I think Fleetwood Mac's best produced song is Little Lies.

I'm no expert on producing music or actually what goes into it, but for the basics I think it involves arranging the song, mixing the song, making the song marektable plus some other things important things, I'm sure. (Anyone, who knows more - please provide your input!)

The reason I think Little Lies is pure production genius (kudos to Lindsey & Richard!) is because I think it is probably Fleetwood Mac's most unique song and even unique to the era in which it was released (1987).

First, the beginning of the song is great. What is that sound anyway? I'm sure it was some sound effect used by Lindsey but it almost sounds like violins or something. It immediately grabs the listener's attention (IMO, anyway) I can remember hearing this song in 1987 (and even though I never knew it was FM until I became a fan) I always remembered that song even though I was still a kid at the time.

Second, the background vocals. Having Stevie and Lindsey echo, "tell me lies" makes the song so much more interesting. Though they can blend their voices pretty well, I like how both Stevie and Lindsey sing separately, rather than as one. Much more effective! Plus, all the other background vocals like "close my, close my, close, my eyes" and "tell me, tell me, tell me lies" compliment Christine's voice perfectly.

Third, Christine's voice is perfect and though I think most of Christine's lyrics are pretty simple - I think this song is one of her best lyrically. Though Little Lies is not my favorite FM song or even my favorite Chris song, I still think it remains one of FMs greatest achievements. :)

dissention

03-01-2005, 05:47 PM

Storms. Sheer perfection. I actually prefer the production on the alternate version floating around out there, though. It's quite a gem.

The Tower

03-01-2005, 05:57 PM

"Gypsy" is absolutely it. The guitars, the voices, everything. "Sisters of the Moon" and "Gold Dust Woman" run a close second.

Hawkeye

03-01-2005, 06:05 PM

Thrown Down- I love the song and while it's definitely not my favorite ever, I think it's the song that benifits most from great production. I'll also go with Gold Dust Woman.

And Diss, are you refering to the Storms on disk 2 of the reissue.

jbrownsjr

03-01-2005, 06:15 PM

Everywhere is really cool.

HomerMcvie

03-01-2005, 06:25 PM

Gypsy, followed by Little Lies.

dissention

03-01-2005, 06:33 PM

And Diss, are you refering to the Storms on disk 2 of the reissue.

Yup. :nod:

I also love Gypsy and Second Hand News.

amber

03-01-2005, 06:35 PM

Gypsy, GYOW. Caroline.

Neal

03-01-2005, 06:37 PM

David

03-01-2005, 08:34 PM

AliP

03-01-2005, 08:57 PM

I'd say "Tusk." If perfection consists in the achievement of every aspect of the design, "Tusk" is it from my point of view. It dispatches every one of its means -- technological, psychological, aesthetic, even sociological -- with complete success so that each element achieves its intended end (at least "intended" as I see it, since I can't speak for the intentions of the artists).

I was going back and forth between Tusk and Little Lies. I think Tusk is absolute production genius. And from what I've heard it broke new barriers ie. nothing compared to it. Plus, it is definitely unique, even by FM standards. It sticks out like a sore thumb on their greatest hits (1988) and that's why I think its cool.

Hawkeye

03-01-2005, 09:15 PM

I'd say "Tusk." If perfection consists in the achievement of every aspect of the design, "Tusk" is it from my point of view. It dispatches every one of its means -- technological, psychological, aesthetic, even sociological -- with complete success so that each element achieves its intended end (at least "intended" as I see it, since I can't speak for the intentions of the artists).

hmm, forgot about Tusk, that would definitely be close to #1 if not #1 along with most of his Tusk songs and Murrow from SYW.

catinthedark

03-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Tango in the Night (the song). Utter perfection. It's not my all-time favourite FM song (it's up there), but I think there's so much happening in this song, and it all contributes to the mood and mystique of it. You can hear the stillness of the night, you can hear the lonliness, and you can hear the desire when those drums start. Very hott.

And, though it's not a Fleetwood Mac song, I also love the production on Space Needle. It has such an eery, dark feeling to me.

amber

03-01-2005, 09:40 PM

ontheEdgeof17

03-01-2005, 10:00 PM

-Brown Eyes
-Dreams
-Gypsy
-Caroline
-The Chain
-Crystal

Sugar

03-01-2005, 10:21 PM

amber

03-01-2005, 10:24 PM

I keep coming back to Dreams and YMLF...maybe even GYOW.

I don't even listen to Rumours that much anymore (it's part of my bloodstream by now), but the production on it seems flawless. It's lush and warm and deep.
:nod: :nod:
LOL @ "part of my bloodstream" I feel the same. Although, with the re-issue, i've got to have me some Crystalline silver springs. I love the two on the reissue.

Sugar

03-01-2005, 10:33 PM

:nod: :nod:
LOL @ "part of my bloodstream" I feel the same. Although, with the re-issue, i've got to have me some Crystalline silver springs. I love the two on the reissue.

Yeah...the studio SS is up there too. :thumbsup:

They never blended those vocals like that again (rarely anyway). For me, there's just a sonic depth to Rumours that they never quite achieved again (perhaps by design).

I can still listen to that album with headphones and get lost in all the parts and harmonies of the songs.

amber

03-01-2005, 10:42 PM

Yeah...the studio SS is up there too. :thumbsup:

They never blended those vocals like that again (rarely anyway). For me, there's just a sonic depth to Rumours that they never quite achieved again (perhaps by design).

I can still listen to that album with headphones and get lost in all the parts and harmonies of the songs.
:nod:
yep, yep, yep, and yep. Will I always be wowed by the Chain? yes. Ditto for the whole album.

strandinthewind

03-01-2005, 11:12 PM

Gypsy - hands down - for me at least :cool:

glitter_fades

03-01-2005, 11:16 PM

:thumbsup: Gypsy - hands down - for me at least :cool:

me too

strandinthewind

03-01-2005, 11:17 PM

:thumbsup:

me too

I mean they have some GREAT songs -- I think Tusk (the song) is just killer - but I have NEVER really encountered the majesty Gypsy has in any of their other songs. That production was just the perfect alingment of the stars :nod:

glitter_fades

03-02-2005, 12:02 AM

I mean they have some GREAT songs -- I think Tusk (the song) is just killer - but I have NEVER really encountered the majesty Gypsy has in any of their other songs. That production was just the perfect alingment of the stars :nod:

Compared to the Bella Donna demos it's a masterpiece. I try to visualize how a video would have looked if the song came out the way Stevie was doing it in the studio with Tom Petty. That gypsy reminds me of a runaway street tramp dancing in a go go bar, not the glamourous gypsy princess dancing in the enchanted forrest you get with the Mirage production. The video was a great interpretation of the song as produced on Mirage. It looks just like I pictured the song in my mind before ever seeing the video. The guitar work and the vocal arrangement, the backing vocals in particular, make that song something special. I don't care much for the song live but I never tire of the album version.

Bumperke

03-02-2005, 05:44 AM

Absolutely
Honey hi, warm ways, never going back again, mistyfied and say goodbye.
Sorry more than one, but with their legacy??

Will
(could write down 20 instead these 5 :] )

ryan8472

03-02-2005, 05:52 AM

I'll have to jump on the Gypsy bandwagon...It's just gorgeous. And unfortunatly it's the only instance where the song is. :laugh:

macfan 57

03-02-2005, 06:38 AM

Not in any specific order:

Why
Hypnotized
Silver Springs(the original version)
You Make Loving Fun
Storms
Brown Eyes
Gypsy
Hold Me
Little Lies
Love Shines

rezamatic

03-02-2005, 09:52 AM

I gotta go with something off "Say You Will". I can't tell if it's the production skills or just the fact that technology makes it sound more efficient/polished, but I think tracks like "Red Rover" and "Miranda" have so much going on that if you have a good pair of headphones you can feel like you're submersed in SO many layers of music. You can't get that in older albums. I guess off of an older album... "World Turning"? Odd choice, but that's what I keep coming back to.

And while we're on the topic of "Gypsy" being pure perfection - that is hands down my favorite guitar part from any song. That ...um, plinkery ending is just the best.

HomerMcvie

03-02-2005, 12:56 PM

I'll have to jump on the Gypsy bandwagon...It's just gorgeous. And unfortunatly it's the only instance where the song is. :laugh:
How true, how true. And that's the problem with making a studio masterpiece. It's usually impossible to pull off the magic on the recording, live. You'd think a witch could pull it off, though... :rolleyes: :shrug: :D

amber

03-02-2005, 01:07 PM

How true, how true. And that's the problem with making a studio masterpiece. It's usually impossible to pull off the magic on the recording, live. You'd think a witch could pull it off, though... :rolleyes: :shrug: :D
:laugh: :lol:
Um, I like Mirage live Gypsy.... :sorry: :wavey: But then, I love stevie debauched and drawling. :D

dissention

03-02-2005, 01:12 PM

:laugh: :lol:
Um, I like Mirage live Gypsy.... :sorry: :wavey: But then, I love stevie debauched and drawling. :D

Ooh, that's the one I can't bear to hear. :lol: I will admit to loving it on the Say You Will tour, especially on Live In Boston. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy. :D I'd love for them to ditch the full-band approach and make it acoustic like at the AHI Benefit, though.

HomerMcvie

03-02-2005, 01:15 PM

:laugh: :lol:
Um, I like Mirage live Gypsy.... :sorry: :wavey: But then, I love stevie debauched and drawling. :D
I like it, too. BUT, she sounds like a monotone during the verses. Seriously, listen to it. She mostly sticks to one note for the entire verse. Droning....imo, but I love the song, so I forgave her! :rolleyes:

dissention

03-02-2005, 01:21 PM

HomerMcvie

03-02-2005, 01:25 PM

Coming from you, my love, that's as complimentary and gushy as you can get about Miss Nicks. :xoxo:
You got that right! :xoxo: FWIW, I used to be a BIG fan, until a couple ****TY solo albums made me completely lose interest in her. Then, I began to focus on Lindsey and Christine, which I still do.

Johnny Stew

03-02-2005, 03:26 PM

And that's the problem with making a studio masterpiece. It's usually impossible to pull off the magic on the recording, live. You'd think a witch could pull it off, though... :rolleyes: :shrug: :DIn my eyes, she did capture the magic of that song on stage... ONCE.
When they did it acoustically for the AHI 2000 benefit.

It was truly as beautiful and regal as the studio version, IMO. :nod:

My kingdom for a professionally recorded copy of that performance.

David

03-02-2005, 03:35 PM

In my eyes, she did capture the magic of that song on stage... ONCE.
When they did it acoustically for the AHI 2000 benefit.

It was truly as beautiful and regal as the studio version, IMO. :nod:Everybody sure loves that one, but I can't figure it out. To me it just sounds like a bunch of strummed guitars.

Serrart

03-02-2005, 03:43 PM

Stevie: Storms, Gypsy, Everybody Finds Out
Lindsey: Go Your Own Way, Tango In The Night, Miranda
Christine: Oh Daddy, Brown Eyes, Little Lies

Romy

glitter_fades

03-02-2005, 04:00 PM

Everybody sure loves that one, but I can't figure it out. To me it just sounds like a bunch of strummed guitars.

That's the only live version I do like. :thumbsup: :blob1:

The bootlegs going around don't do it justice. It's the most memorable thing I've ever seen at a live show. I guess you had to be there to see and hear it. Lindsey tore up his part but it got a little lost to the lousy sound set up. If you were up front you got a different take on it than what came out of the sound system. The sound was lame for that show but the song was still amazing to me.

Moony

03-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Stevie: Gypsy, Sara, Seven Wonders
Christine: Little Lies, Love In Store
Lindsey: Tusk, The Ledge, Big Love

AliP

03-02-2005, 04:50 PM

I like it, too. BUT, she sounds like a monotone during the verses. Seriously, listen to it. She mostly sticks to one note for the entire verse. Droning....imo, but I love the song, so I forgave her! :rolleyes:

I feel like I'm one of the few who loves her performance of Gypsy from the Mirage vid. Recently, though, I kind of realized why some people don't like it. I made a compilation CD of my fave Stevie songs and I put that song on there. After listening to it over and over again, I can totally hear the monotone and the droning. Compared to the other songs I have on there - it just doesn't fit and sounds as if she is trying way too hard.

So, I decided the reason I love the performance so much, is not because of the song by itself, but because of her performance of the song on the Mirage video. I love how she runs out and barely makes it to the mic to sing the first line, I think she looks as beautiful as ever in white, and it may just be me, but I totally can hear and see the emotion in her voice and face that I think makes it all the more awesome.

strandinthewind

03-02-2005, 04:53 PM

I feel like I'm one of the few who loves her performance of Gypsy from the Mirage vid. Recently, though, I kind of realized why some people don't like it. I made a compilation CD of my fave Stevie songs and I put that song on there. After listening to it over and over again, I can totally hear the monotone and the droning. Compared to the other songs I have on there - it just doesn't fit and sounds as if she is trying way too hard.

So, I decided the reason I love the performance so much, is not because of the song by itself, but because of her performance of the song on the Mirage video. I love how she runs out and barely makes it to the mic to sing the first line, I think she looks as beautiful as ever in white, and it may just be me, but I totally can hear and see the emotion in her voice and face that I think makes it all the more awesome.

I like it and I think she is lambent in it. It is one of her most beautiful apprearances every IMO.

I was at a concert one time and someone was playing it on their car stereo. It sounded really good and much lighter than the dark dark video representation - which was just so raw.

The Tower

03-02-2005, 05:03 PM

I mean they have some GREAT songs -- I think Tusk (the song) is just killer - but I have NEVER really encountered the majesty Gypsy has in any of their other songs. That production was just the perfect alingment of the stars :nod:
Not only that- Stevie's lead vocal on it is ...... there aren't words to describe it. It's ..... jeez, I dunno- I really can't explain it. All I know is my eyes always well up with tears at the bridge and I have gooseflesh for the entire song- all of it.

Stevie's voice was at its zenith during this period- look at "Sleeping Angel" and "That's Alright". WOW-EEEEE!!!!!

The bootlegs going around don't do it justice. It's the most memorable thing I've ever seen at a live show. I guess you had to be there to see and hear it.
:nod: I bawled my eyes out when they played it. It was so moving and magical. You really had to be there to get the full impact of that performance.

shackin'up

03-02-2005, 05:44 PM

henryscutter

03-02-2005, 10:00 PM

You got that right! :xoxo: FWIW, I used to be a BIG fan, until a couple ****TY solo albums made me completely lose interest in her. Then, I began to focus on Lindsey and Christine, which I still do.
I guess a couple ****ty solo albums didn't scare you away from lindsey and chris :sorry: :laugh: :p

Moony

03-02-2005, 11:42 PM

Stevie's voice was at its zenith during this period- look at "Sleeping Angel" and "That's Alright". WOW-EEEEE!!!!!

I could not agree with you more, tower!! :thumbsup: :wavey:

HomerMcvie

03-02-2005, 11:50 PM

I guess a couple ****ty solo albums didn't scare you away from lindsey and chris :sorry: :laugh: :p
In my opinion, neither Chris nor Lindsey has HAD a ****ty solo album(a claim the queen of Fairy Farts(copywrite Diss) can't make. And my opinion, is the only one that matters. :nod: :nod: :nod:

dissention

03-02-2005, 11:53 PM

In my opinion, neither Chris nor Lindsey has HAD a ****ty solo album(a claim the queen of Fairy Farts(copywrite Diss) can't make. And my opinion, is the only one that matters. :nod: :nod: :nod:

:laugh:

It's the Queen of Velvet Fountains and Fairy Farts, dear. :p

I don't know, the first time I heard Law and Order, I thought it was putrid. It grew on me faster than a fungus and I now adore it, but the first time I heard Bwana, I almost left this cruel world because the projectile vomiting was so bad.

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 12:26 AM

Everybody sure loves that one, but I can't figure it out. To me it just sounds like a bunch of strummed guitars.For me, part of its beauty is the simplistic arrangement. Lindsey was smart to keep it unfettered.
Meanwhile, Stevie's voice soars... she sounds at once wistful and hopeful. How she can get her oddball little voice to convey such a gamut of emotions is always endlessly fascinating to me.
But she does it -- and she does it in spades on this performance.

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 12:54 AM

:laugh:

It's the Queen of Velvet Fountains and Fairy Farts, dear. :p
That's my abridged version, and I'm sticking with it! :rolleyes:

I don't know, the first time I heard Law and Order, I thought it was putrid. It grew on me faster than a fungus and I now adore it, but the first time I heard Bwana, I almost left this cruel world because the projectile vomiting was so bad.
BUT, you came to realize that it was GREATNESS. ART requires more than pandering to the masses, ala......(you know who - whether it's successful pandering or not :lol: ).
Law and Order is FREAKY DEAKY(how does one spell "deaky"), and I LOVE it!
Is L&O weird? You betcha...
WHILE we're on the pandering subject, rehashing a 30 yo breakup onstage every night, playing the same freaking songs, is the DEFINITION of pandering!

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 01:05 AM

I don't know, the first time I heard Law and Order, I thought it was putrid. It grew on me faster than a fungus and I now adore it, but the first time I heard Bwana, I almost left this cruel world because the projectile vomiting was so bad.I loved 'Law & Order' right from the start. My uncle gave me his LP of it after I became a huge Machead, and I made a copy of it onto cassette and listened to it on my walkman constantly.

For the record, my uncle was a big LB fan, but then got cheesed off with the direction he was going in when 'Go Insane' came out and lost interest in him completely.
I think i've mentioned before that I'm slowly trying to get him back into him, through his more recent work.

wondergirl9847

03-03-2005, 01:14 AM

I scratched my head at Bwana too when I first heard it...and most of L&O. Also, I HATED Time Bomb Town as a 9 year old, but almost 20 years later, it's one of my favorite songs. I love Bwana now too, his vocal on that is insanely cool.

Lindsey's music for the most part is grower-type music. You don't listen to it once and go "WOWIE!! I'm hooked!" Some of his songs are very hooky, but most aren't, they take time. You Do or You Don't took some time to grow on me and most of the Tusk songs are that way too, they are so in your face, and some people don't like that. LOL

amber

03-03-2005, 01:17 AM

I like it, too. BUT, she sounds like a monotone during the verses. Seriously, listen to it. She mostly sticks to one note for the entire verse. Droning....imo, but I love the song, so I forgave her! :rolleyes:
Way late, but I disagree on the one note thing. I thought she was very, uh...inventive on the notes in that version of Gypsy. :wavey:

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 01:19 AM

ART requires more than pandering to the masses, ala......(you know who - whether it's successful pandering or not :lol: ).Now, Now, Homie. To each his own as far as musical tastes, and I'm not looking to start another epic debate here... but we can't bash Stevie for "pandering to the masses" while letting Christine go scott-free.
We're in "Double Standard" territory again with that.

Lindsey has cited Christine as one of the biggest opponents in FM to his more off the wall approach, and her three solo albums definitely demonstrate her "mainstream sensibilities." If one wants to be cynical about it, Christine's music has always been "middle of the road" and "for the masses" (the fact that she's had the most hit singles with the band, is a further demonstration of that fact).

I'm not knocking Christine here, mind you. My opinion is that if you LIKE pop music, and you WANT to make pop music, then there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't.

With perhaps a few exceptions here and there, Christine and Stevie have seemingly always recorded the type of music THEY wanted to record. That's not "pandering to the masses," it's being true to one's own personal preferences.

Christine and Stevie have more mainstream tastes... and sometimes that frustrates fans... but that doesn't lessen the value of their artistry. :nod:

PenguinHead

03-03-2005, 01:26 AM

I'd definitely say any song from TITN is an example of great production. The only downside (IMHO) is that songs overproduced in the studio often don't translate well live; i.e. any song from TITN. :cool:

Fair enough. Yet if we didn't have the studio album to make that comparison, and there was nothing to "translate," how then would you judge those live performances?

It's not my favorite era of the band, but I think the few songs that they did do were fine: Seven Wonders, Little Lies, Everywhere, Isn't It Midnight. I don't compare studio songs against their live performances. I'm not looking for them to replicate their studio sound. I found out very early on, in the seventies, that the live Fleetwood Mac band was a very different animal from their studio band.

When it was just the five of them, I really liked the rough-around-edges interpretations of their live performances. They couldn't replicate their studio
sound, so it was always interesting to hear how they reconciled that.

Once they started adding numerous background singers and musicians, they leaned more toward closer resemblance to the studio versions and lost, in my mind, a certain rock and roll edge. Hmmm...come to think about it, you're assessment is probably accurate!

Now I wonder what the Tango songs would have sounded like if Lindsey stayed and toured with the band, and they didn't add the background musicians. The songs would have been less polished, but maybe better!

Who wants to go to concert just to hear carbon copies of their studio versions? I don't.

henryscutter

03-03-2005, 01:26 AM

Its all subjective; A lot of people don't like Lindsey's solo albums ( not because they dont get it, they do and they still think it sucks) I personally like a lot of it, but most people I play it for don't. I either get comments about it sounding gay ( which there is nothing wrong with to quote Jerry Seinfeld :) ) or they will say something about the movie Deliverance :rolleyes: So if you want label Stevie go ahead, but who cares its just your opinion like the ones above are others opinions. Here's another opinion :laugh: : I don't see anything special about Christine's solo albums

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 02:28 AM

Now, Now, Homie. To each his own as far as musical tastes, and I'm not looking to start another epic debate here... but we can't bash Stevie for "pandering to the masses" while letting Christine go scott-free.
We're in "Double Standard" territory again with that.
Maybe we are, although Christine's never had an OSOTM. My gawd, that thing sucks, and forced me to cash in my Stevie fandom ticket. RAL almost sucked as bad....

Lindsey has cited Christine as one of the biggest opponents in FM to his more off the wall approach, and her three solo albums definitely demonstrate her "mainstream sensibilities." If one wants to be cynical about it, Christine's music has always been "middle of the road" and "for the masses" (the fact that she's had the most hit singles with the band, is a further demonstration of that fact).
Odd you're equating my fandom with Christine, and not Lindsey.... :cool:

With perhaps a few exceptions here and there, Christine and Stevie have seemingly always recorded the type of music THEY wanted to record. That's not "pandering to the masses," it's being true to one's own personal preferences.
Lindsey's a freak, and I love him for that!

Christine and Stevie have more mainstream tastes... and sometimes that frustrates fans... but that doesn't lessen the value of their artistry. :nod:
Perhaps my frustration lies more with how even Stevie's CRAP is worshipped over FAR more artistic contributions by Lindsey and Christine.

amber

03-03-2005, 02:31 AM

Maybe we are, although Christine's never had an OSOTM. My gawd, that thing sucks, and forced me to cash in my Stevie fandom ticket. RAL almost sucked as bad....

Perhaps my frustration lies more with how even Stevie's CRAP is worshipped over FAR more artistic contributions by Lindsey and Christine.
Not that you're talking to me, but RAL and OSOTM are my favorite solo albums, so far. :wavey:
What can we say about stevie's "crap"? There must be a reason people like it - I, personally, can't get enough of the strangeness of the voice quality, the phrasing, the harmonies. She's unusual. And, of course, it's very subjective to call someone's contributions "far more artistic" because none of the three can do what the other does - in my eyes they're separate but equal. :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 02:32 AM

Here's another opinion :laugh: : I don't see anything special about Christine's solo albums
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
And, Newbie, opinions.......are like..........what is it?
Oh yeah! I "think" I remember........(I'm not giving a rude answer, out of sheeeer politeness) :lol: :lol: :lol:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 02:43 AM

Not that you're talking to me, but RAL and OSOTM are my favorite solo albums, so far. :wavey:
(Shudder) :rolleyes: Wow, Bella Donna was/is greatness......Wild Heart was darn good. IMO, the rest rolled straight downhill, like a 10 ton boulder! Look at the SALES. Do you think the public just "got over her"? Sales(IMO=duh) was indicative of the quality of the project. Especially riding the wave she was on. She dropped the ball, errrr, boulder. :rolleyes:

amber

03-03-2005, 02:47 AM

(Shudder) :rolleyes: Wow, Bella Donna was/is greatness......Wild Heart was darn good. IMO, the rest rolled straight downhill, like a 10 ton boulder! Look at the SALES. Do you think the public just "got over her"? Sales(IMO=duh) was indicative of the quality of the project. Especially riding the wave she was on. She dropped the ball, errrr, boulder. :rolleyes:
mmmkay, whatev. I only got all three recently, I guess she could've "dropped the ball" or whatever, but judging now, with all four in hand at once, that's how I feel. The first 4 songs of Wild Heart bore me to tears, and I haven't listened to BD as much, but that's because when I did, i was bored. Except, of course, BD has 2 of my faves of all time, EO17 and SDMHA - It could grow on me, but RAL and OSOTM grew on me first. Cause I liked them better. Cause they have beats. :laugh: mmmm, beats. :wavey:

henryscutter

03-03-2005, 03:05 AM

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
And, Newbie, opinions.......are like..........what is it?
Oh yeah! I "think" I remember........(I'm not giving a rude answer, out of sheeeer politeness) :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll be polite too and won't say anything about an old farts opinion :laugh: ;)

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 03:10 AM

mmmkay, whatev. I only got all three recently, I guess she could've "dropped the ball" or whatever, but judging now, with all four in hand at once, that's how I feel. The first 4 songs of Wild Heart bore me to tears, and I haven't listened to BD as much, but that's because when I did, i was bored. Except, of course, BD has 2 of my faves of all time, EO17 and SDMHA - It could grow on me, but RAL and OSOTM grew on me first. Cause I liked them better. Cause they have beats. :laugh: mmmm, beats. :wavey:
Ewwww, beets, or beats. Don't care much for either! :lol: Amber, BD is a masterpiece! Don't NOT listen to it because it's not a dance record. I'm SURE Stevie will admit it's her masterpiece. It's a well written, cohesive, So Cal rock album. It holds it's own with Rumours and Hotel California, IMO.
Oh, for a time machine!

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 03:12 AM

I'll be polite too and won't say anything about an old farts opinion :laugh: ;)
Good, I've already heard enough about you! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 03:12 AM

Christine's never had an OSOTM. My gawd, that thing sucks....But one could say that Christine's also never had a 'Bella Donna,' a 'Wild Heart' or a 'Trouble In Shangri-La.' :shrug:

Odd you're equating my fandom with Christine, and not Lindsey.... :cool:You seem to be a bit more vocal in your love of Christine than you are in your love of Lindsey. At times I've actually thought you only liked him about two notches above Stevie.

Besides, it's not about who any of us loves "more" or "less"... I was just trying to keep things fair by responding to the "pandering to the masses" criticism. :)

Lindsey's a freak, and I love him for that!As do I.

Perhaps my frustration lies more with how even Stevie's CRAP is worshipped over FAR more artistic contributions by Lindsey and Christine.But then that's hardly Stevie's fault, is it? A larger portion of Fleetwood Mac's audience seemed to connect with Stevie's songs, and they followed her over to her solo career, where she also picked up additional fans.

She lost some folks over the years, and gained some folks. Her popularity ebbed and flowed.
But she maintained a pretty solid core audience who are not of the "fair-weather fan" variety.
If there are a few songs or albums in there that they don't care for, they don't just cast Stevie aside and look for something else to hold their attention.

And, again, "crap" is all subjective.
It seems to me that a song is only "crap" if we can't figure out why other people like it, when we don't. ;) :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 03:24 AM

But one could say that Christine's also never had a 'Bella Donna,' a 'Wild Heart' or a 'Trouble In Shangri-La.' :shrug:
I've never heard TISL, but I will grant you the BD, you Chiffonhead! :xoxo:

You seem to be a bit more vocal in your love of Christine than you are in your love of Lindsey. At times I've actually thought you only liked him about two notches above Stevie.
Where have I dogged him? As for Christine, I'm her sworn protector... Don't **** with CM!!!! :rolleyes:

But then that's hardly Stevie's fault, is it? A larger portion of Fleetwood Mac's audience seemed to connect with Stevie's songs, and they followed her over to her solo career, where she also picked up additional fans.

She lost some folks over the years, and gained some folks. Her popularity ebbed and flowed.
But she maintained a pretty solid core audience who are not of the "fair-weather fan" variety.
If there are a few songs or albums in there that they don't care for, they don't just cast Stevie aside and look for something else to hold their attention.
But WON'T you admit that her fans seem MUCH more forgiving of......some... subpar material?

And, again, "crap" is all subjective.
It seems to me that a song is only "crap" if we can't figure out why other people like it, when we don't. ;) :laugh:
Crap is where you compare The Highwayman to something off OSOTM(I've not heard it since it came out, so I can't remember any titles!)

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 03:28 AM

(Shudder) :rolleyes: Wow, Bella Donna was/is greatness......Wild Heart was darn good. IMO, the rest rolled straight downhill, like a 10 ton boulder! Look at the SALES. Do you think the public just "got over her"? Sales(IMO=duh) was indicative of the quality of the project. Especially riding the wave she was on. She dropped the ball, errrr, boulder. :rolleyes:I won't get into the "look at the sales" argument, because even Stevie's lowest selling albums have sold better than Lindsey & Christine's solo output.

So to say that Stevie's latter-day albums sold less because they were of a lesser quality, is to imply that Lindsey & Christine's albums were of an even lesser quality, based on their sales.
It's definitely an argument with dangerous implications all around.

We're also discussing a women who, for whatever it's worth, maintained a respectable level of success while suffering through setbacks and missteps that would have put the final nail in the coffin of many lesser talents.

Anyway, I've "walked down this road" many times before... just thought I'd make a couple of quick points (which, for me, "quick" always seems to be at least four paragraphs. :o :laugh: ).

amber

03-03-2005, 03:32 AM

I've never heard TISL, but I will grant you the BD, you Chiffonhead! :xoxo:

Where have I dogged him? As for Christine, I'm her sworn protector... Don't **** with CM!!!! :rolleyes:

But WON'T you admit that her fans seem MUCH more forgiving of......some... subpar material?

Crap is where you compare The Highwayman to something off OSOTM(I've not heard it since it came out, so I can't remember any titles!)
Oh, Homie. Suck my bun. :laugh: I don't care much for Highwayman, BTW. :wavey:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 03:48 AM

Oh, Homie. Suck my bun. :laugh: I don't care much for Highwayman, BTW. :wavey:
Okay. Sacrilege! See, here I am DEFENDING her. Oh, that Nicks broad is a two sided coin! :lol:
Love her, hate her, all in the same post!

amber

03-03-2005, 03:52 AM

Okay. Sacrilege! See, here I am DEFENDING her. Oh, that Nicks broad is a two sided coin! :lol:
Love her, hate her, all in the same post!
well, she's very complex. :shrug: :lol:

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 03:53 AM

Just a few quick responses. :)

I've never heard TISL, but I will grant you the BD, you Chiffonhead! :xoxo:If "Chiffonhead" is being used in a derogatory way, then I'd like to think I'm more sophisticated in my tastes and more intelligent in my explanation of said tastes, than the connotations behind that nickname imply. ;)

But if it's being used with affection, then I'll wear the little label proudly. :xoxo:

Where have I dogged him? As for Christine, I'm her sworn protector... Don't **** with CM!!!! :rolleyes:Not that you've dogged him necessarily... just that I've never noticed you being as vocal in your appreciation of his work, as you are regarding Christine's.
Plus, you seem to hate "Come" and "Murrow" and seem to have little-to-no affection for 'Say You Will'... which is half Lindsey, song-wise, and all Lindsey, production-wise (figuratively speaking).

So I didn't figure you hated him, I just figured Christine was at the top of the list, and Lindsey was somewhere higher than Stevie, but much lower than Chris.

But WON'T you admit that her fans seem MUCH more forgiving of......some... subpar material?Forgiving, yes... but more forgiving than Christine & Lindsey's fans are of the same "sin"?
No, I don't believe that to be true.

I see quite a few Chris & Lindsey songs that your typical music lover might dismiss outright as being lame, goofy, boring, crappy, subpar, etc.... yet get praised to the high heavens by their fans (which I am most definitely including myself amongst).
We're fans... we like this music for a reason, and we're always going to like certain songs that would cause most other people to scratch their heads and question our sanity.

Stevie's fans may be louder in their defense of Stevie, because they seem to exist in higher numbers... but they're truly no more defensive or forgiving than Christine's or Lindsey's fans, when it comes right down to it.

Crap is where you compare The Highwayman to something off OSOTM(I've not heard it since it came out, so I can't remember any titles!)"The Highwayman" is probably my least favorite song on 'Bella Donna'... I'd definitely take "Doing The Best That I Can" or "Ghosts" or probably even "Alice" over it.

Again, it's a matter of personal preference. :)

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 04:08 AM

Just a few quick responses. :)

Me, too. I'm too sleepy to answer much here.

[/QUOTE]
But if it's being used with affection, then I'll wear the little label proudly. :xoxo: [/QUOTE]

Well, I did the xoxo thing......duh!

[/QUOTE]
Not that you've dogged him necessarily... just that I've never noticed you being as vocal in your appreciation of his work, as you are regarding Christine's. [/QUOTE]

He HAS his own army of vocal supporters, that I need not....( so tired, my vocabulary is failing me now).....
[/QUOTE]
Plus, you seem to hate "Come" and "Murrow" and seem to have little-to-no affection for 'Say You Will'... which is half Lindsey, song-wise, and all Lindsey, production-wise (figuratively speaking).[/QUOTE]

Come is NOT a FM song. Murrow can slide as one. COME on! Do you REALLY think Come is a FM song? Tacky.

[/QUOTE]
So I didn't figure you hated him, I just figured Christine was at the top of the list, and Lindsey was somewhere higher than Stevie, but much lower than Chris.[/QUOTE]
Well, the order is correct, even if the levels are a tad askew. ;)

[/QUOTE]
Stevie's fans may be louder in their defense of Stevie, because they seem to exist in higher numbers... [/QUOTE]

Nope. I maintain that she could fart in a microphone, and they'd love it.

[/QUOTE]
"The Highwayman" is probably my least favorite song on 'Bella Donna'... I'd definitely take "Doing The Best That I Can" or "Ghosts" or probably even "Alice" over it.[/QUOTE]

Wow. You and AMber are weird. Highwayman is great!

Again, it's a matter of personal preference. :)[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Goodnight, Johnnystewboy. zzzzzzzz

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 04:20 AM

I maintain that she could fart in a microphone, and they'd love it.With all of the weird noises and "found sounds" Lindsey uses in his songs, I'm surprised HE hasn't farted into a microphone yet! :laugh:
And, of course, it would be "art" if he did. ;) :laugh:

I've been on a 'Go Insane' kick lately, so I'll listen extra closely tonight, and let you know if I find anything!

Goodnight, Johnnystewboy. zzzzzzzzNight, Homie!

PM me sometime soon and let me know how Cash is doing, ok? Been keeping you guys in my thoughts, and sending good vibes your way. :xoxo:

PenguinHead

03-03-2005, 07:06 AM

:laugh: :lol:
Um, I like Mirage live Gypsy.... :sorry: :wavey: But then, I love stevie debauched and drawling. :D
Yeah!!! I'm with you! Rock on :thumbsup:

henryscutter

03-03-2005, 07:09 AM

Good, I've already heard enough about you! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
good comeback :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PenguinHead

03-03-2005, 07:22 AM

I find it funny and odd how some fans are so damn fickle. So an artist you like puts out an album you don't like....so you write them off entirely?? In the scope of an artist's career, you should allow them to make a few missteps (which are totally subjective).

For me, that's what makes it interesting. And often, as I've seen stated here many times, often the very songs/albums you initially depised/hated are the ones you come to love over time.

dissention

03-03-2005, 08:55 AM

Way late, but I disagree on the one note thing. I thought she was very, uh...inventive on the notes in that version of Gypsy. :wavey:

Yeah, she certainly invented notes we hadn't even heard before. :laugh:

dissention

03-03-2005, 09:06 AM

dissention

03-03-2005, 09:52 AM

I find it funny and odd how some fans are so damn fickle. So an artist you like puts out an album you don't like....so you write them off entirely?? In the scope of an artist's career, you should allow them to make a few missteps (which are totally subjective).

When it comes to my taste for Stevie, it's a bit more than her simply "putting out an album I don't like." :o

eclipse

03-03-2005, 10:03 AM

eclipse

03-03-2005, 10:05 AM

Sorry- Just my ideas- (not ides...Must be thinking about the ides of March and bewaring them :rolleyes: )
~~eclipse~~

sweetgypsygirl

03-03-2005, 10:53 AM

I guess a couple ****ty solo albums didn't scare you away from lindsey and chris :sorry: :laugh: :p

Right on! That's just what I was thinking. Not to mention, I've yet to come across a ****ty solo album from Stevie...try listening to them more than once, they'll grow on you. Not ****ty at all.

catinthedark

03-03-2005, 11:42 AM

Just been catching up on the last day or so of posts here. I have to chime in on my support for RAL. I LOVE this album. I've never understood the profound disdain many fans have for it. It's stood the test of time for me (and I actually hate synthesizers). I bought the first three solo albums back in 1987, and Rock a Little was the one I connected most to, and to which I listened most. I recently downloaded the RAL demos and have been listening to them non stop. Love them all (except Mirror Mirror). Sure, I also love many songs off BD and WH (and I love almost all of TISL), but if I was going off to a desert island, I'd take RAL. It hangs together better to me, and there isn't one song on it which bores me (which I can't say for BD or WH... *cough* How Still My Love... *cough* Bella Donna.. *cough* Gate and Garden... *cough* Sable on Blond... )

amber

03-03-2005, 12:19 PM

dissention

03-03-2005, 12:23 PM

Villavic

03-03-2005, 12:30 PM

"Gypsy" is absolutely it. The guitars, the voices, everything. .

I agree, though Tango in the Night songs are great also. I think Lindsey and Richard were in their peak skills during the mid 80s

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 12:47 PM

Right on! That's just what I was thinking. Not to mention, I've yet to come across a ****ty solo album from Stevie...try listening to them more than once, they'll grow on you. Not ****ty at all.
I tried listening to OSOTM for months. I came to one conclusion:
Ewwwww. Turn her over. She's done.
I've heard that there were some later albums that were better, however, I'd lost all interest in her solo career by then(and, alot of respect for her). :shocked:
Perhaps there's a lesson for all artists here: Don't put out an album just to be putting out an album. If it's a piece of dung, flush it. :xoxo:

amber

03-03-2005, 12:51 PM

I tried listening to OSOTM for months. I came to one conclusion:
Ewwwww. Turn her over. She's done.
I've heard that there were some later albums that were better, however, I'd lost all interest in her solo career by then(and, alot of respect for her). :shocked:
Perhaps there's a lesson for all artists here: Don't put out an album just to be putting out an album. If it's a piece of dung, flush it. :xoxo:
Perhaps there's another lesson: Just cause one person thinks it's a piece of dung, doesn't mean everyone will. I really like about 6-7 songs on OSOTM. So, again, I have to say, suck my bun, Homie! :laugh: :xoxo: I would never get Christine's solo albums, But you like them :shrug: See how that works? :)

Neal

03-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Fair enough. Yet if we didn't have the studio album to make that comparison, and there was nothing to "translate," how then would you judge those live performances?

It's not my favorite era of the band, but I think the few songs that they did do were fine: Seven Wonders, Little Lies, Everywhere, Isn't It Midnight. I don't compare studio songs against their live performances. I'm not looking for them to replicate their studio sound. I found out very early on, in the seventies, that the live Fleetwood Mac band was a very different animal from their studio band.

When it was just the five of them, I really liked the rough-around-edges interpretations of their live performances. They couldn't replicate their studio
sound, so it was always interesting to hear how they reconciled that.
Once they started adding numerous background singers and musicians, they leaned more toward closer resemblance to the studio versions and lost, in my mind, a certain rock and roll edge. Hmmm...come to think about it, you're assessment is probably accurate!

Now I wonder what the Tango songs would have sounded like if Lindsey stayed and toured with the band, and they didn't add the background musicians. The songs would have been less polished, but maybe better!
Who wants to go to concert just to hear carbon copies of their studio versions? I don't.

Great points. On second thought, 'Isn't It Midnight' and 'Seven Wonders' were pretty decent live. However I've yet to hear a live version of 'Little Lies' or 'Everywhere' (including The Dance) that I like. How these songs would have translated live with Lindsey onboard is anyones guess; and I can only imagine what he would have done with 'Caroline', 'TITN', or even 'Big Love' onstage.

This post came to mind as I was watching Duran Duran (fabulous show, btw) last night. The arrangements of many hits were altered, and the set was more guitar-oriented as opposed to the synth sound that's prominent on their albums. So in this instance, I was more than pleased that the songs I heard were not "carbon copies" of the studio versions.

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:04 PM

Perhaps there's another lesson: Just cause one person thinks it's a piece of dung, doesn't mean everyone will. I really like about 6-7 songs on OSOTM. So, again, I have to say, suck my bun, Homie! :laugh: :xoxo: I would never get Christine's solo albums, But you like them :shrug: See how that works? :)
Which bun, AMber?
And, would you NOT say that there's a CORRELATION between her sales, drug use, quality of the material, and her popularity in general at this time? She was practically in the gutter(and her work shows that, IMO) Lame assed.
She could pass some Fairy gas on tape, and some of ya'all would pay top dollar for it. :rolleyes:

dissention

03-03-2005, 01:09 PM

She could pass some Fairy gas on tape, and some of ya'all would pay top dollar for it. :rolleyes:

I'd purchase it just to see what interesting harmonies she pulled out of her ass...so to speak.

amber

03-03-2005, 01:10 PM

Which bun, AMber?
And, would you NOT say that there's a CORRELATION between her sales, drug use, quality of the material, and her popularity in general at this time? She was practically in the gutter(and her work shows that, IMO) Lame assed.
She could pass some Fairy gas on tape, and some of ya'all would pay top dollar for it. :rolleyes:
Pick a bun, any bun! they're both great. :laugh: I suppose there could be a correlation, but I also think that's the natural arc of a career...and her arc went on longer than most people's. you know, you're hot, then you're not. :shrug: Styles change and new people come onto the scene and all that. And, yes, I would pay for fairy gas,(mmm, fairy gas...drool) but not Stevie's songs I don't like. And honestly, I still don't understand how you could listen to a whole album of Christine songs repeatedly. *yawn* :wavey:

dissention

03-03-2005, 01:15 PM

Pick a bun, any bun! they're both great. :laugh: I suppose there could be a correlation, but I also think that's the natural arc of a career...and her arc went on longer than most people's. you know, you're hot, then you're not. :shrug: Styles change and new people come onto the scene and all that. And, yes, I would pay for fairy gas,(mmm, fairy gas...drool) but not Stevie's songs I don't like. And honestly, I still don't understand how you could listen to a whole album of Christine songs repeatedly. *yawn* :wavey:

There's a pretty good essay floating around out there that talks about how her image changed over the years and how that may have contributed to her career going downhill. I'll see if I can find it for you.

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:18 PM

And, yes, I would pay for fairy gas,(mmm, fairy gas...drool) but not Stevie's songs I don't like.
Ewwwww, old lady, post menopausal gas. I repeat, ewwwwww :rolleyes: And honestly, I still don't understand how you could listen to a whole album of Christine songs repeatedly. *yawn* :wavey:
You know what? I DO find them relaxing. Soothing. They let me know that all is okay in the world. That I still have my Christine by my side.
Not everyone needs a Stand Back dance beat to enjoy music. Dance music actually kinda gets on my nerves(not implying that's what you meant).
I listen to more and more Classical music every year...

amber

03-03-2005, 01:18 PM

There's a pretty good essay floating around out there that talks about how her image changed over the years and how that may have contributed to her career going downhill. I'll see if I can find it for you.
Why? I'm not saying that couldn't be true, I'm sure it is. Her image went out of style. :shrug: so what?

dissention

03-03-2005, 01:19 PM

Why? I'm not saying that couldn't be true, I'm sure it is. Her image went out of style. :shrug: so what?

I don't know, I thought you might like to read it. I guess not. :rolleyes:

amber

03-03-2005, 01:20 PM

Ewwwww, old lady, post menopausal gas. I repeat, ewwwwww :rolleyes:
You know what? I DO find them relaxing. Soothing. They let me know that all is okay in the world. That I still have my Christine by my side.
Not everyone needs a Stand Back dance beat to enjoy music. Dance music actually kinda gets on my nerves(not implying that's what you meant).
I listen to more and more Classical music every year...
fairy gas is not menopausal farts. It's a magical substance that does wondrous things. Not related to stevie at all. :laugh:
And, well, the beat gets on your nerves. I like a beat. So there ya go. It doesn't mean stevie or christine sucks. It just means we don't like one or the other. See? how's that bun taste? delicious? :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:23 PM

There's a pretty good essay floating around out there that talks about how her image changed over the years and how that may have contributed to her career going downhill. I'll see if I can find it for you.
And I've always said that THAT's the problem when you're a sex symbol. Where do you go when you pass 40-45? "Oh yeah, she was HOT, you know, back in the 1970s and 80s."
I'll bet they don't say that about Dylan. :)

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:25 PM

fairy gas is not menopausal farts. It's a magical substance that does wondrous things. Not related to stevie at all. :laugh:
And, well, the beat gets on your nerves. I like a beat. So there ya go. It doesn't mean stevie or christine sucks. It just means we don't like one or the other.
I've said many times, I love BD and the WH.
[/QUOTE]See? how's that bun taste? delicious? :laugh:[/QUOTE]
I think I need some ketchup. :xoxo:

dissention

03-03-2005, 01:26 PM

And I've always said that THAT's the problem when you're a sex symbol. Where do you go when you pass 40-45? "Oh yeah, she was HOT, you know, back in the 1970s and 80s."
I'll bet they don't say that about Dylan. :)

Well, it didn't so much deal with her being a sex symbol as much as it had to do with how her image changed. It talked about how she was a tough but sensitive rocker chick when she hit it big with Bella Donna, but by the time TOSOTM and Street Angel rolled around, she was the epitome of a child-like woman; she had turned into an ultra-feminine fairy princess. I didn't necessarily agree with everything it said, but it was pretty well thought-out and interesting.

amber

03-03-2005, 01:27 PM

I don't know, I thought you might like to read it. I guess not. :rolleyes:
If you post it, I'll probably read it.

amber

03-03-2005, 01:30 PM

I've said many times, I love BD and the WH.
See? how's that bun taste? delicious? :laugh:[/QUOTE]
I think I need some ketchup. :xoxo:[/QUOTE]
ketchup!!!? Blasphemer! Hollandaise sauce is the only way! :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Bring it on. I love Hollandaise sauce! (dammit, here goes my diet for this afternoon).

stefan

03-03-2005, 01:48 PM

Right on! That's just what I was thinking. Not to mention, I've yet to come across a ****ty solo album from Stevie...
No problem, just buy one and you've come across :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 01:54 PM

No problem, just buy one and you've come across :laugh:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wavey: :xoxo:

dissention

03-03-2005, 02:12 PM

No problem, just buy one and you've come across :laugh:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 02:46 PM

No problem, just buy one and you've come across :laugh:But at least someone cared enough to actually buy the album. ;)

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 03:11 PM

Well, it didn't so much deal with her being a sex symbol as much as it had to do with how her image changed. It talked about how she was a tough but sensitive rocker chick when she hit it big with Bella Donna, but by the time TOSOTM and Street Angel rolled around, she was the epitome of a child-like woman; she had turned into an ultra-feminine fairy princess. I didn't necessarily agree with everything it said, but it was pretty well thought-out and interesting.It was an interesting essay, although I didn't agree with all of the arguing points either.

She was always a "child-like woman" and "ultra-feminine"... all the way back to "Crying In The Night," "Rhiannon," "Silver Springs," "Storms," etc.
And she was still "tough but sensitive" on the later albums.
The biggest difference between 1979 and 1989 is that she went from a young singer with a young audience, to an older singer with an older audience.

When people discuss Stevie's career, and her dip in popularity, they usually take a pretty insular view, focusing on Stevie herself and none of the external forces that affect a celebrity's popularity.

If one looks back to the years in which Stevie's popularity began to wane, they'll see that Stevie was not the only female pop/rock artist to "lose favor" with their previously large audience.
Stevie, Pat Benatar, Heart, Chrissie Hynde, Tina Turner, Debbie Harry, Cyndi Lauper, Joan Jett... they all saw a decrease in album sales and ticket sales (well, except Tina, whose concert sales have, since her comeback, consistently exceeded her album sales).

Even many of the male pop/rock artists who had been popular around the same time as the aforementioned ladies, suffered dips in their sales.

Stevie's image by 1989/90 was definitely "fuddy-duddy" in the eyes of the 14-17 year olds whose tastes tend to have the largest influence on dictating what's hip and what isn't.
But even if she hadn't been the 40-something, big hair having, big shoulderpad wearing, Mae West meets Kewpie Doll Stevie Nicks... if she had just come on the scene as the 20-something, dripping chiffon wearing, tambourine-bashing, rock 'n rolling Stevie Nicks that everyone in the 70s and early 80s loved, she still wouldn't have been that popular.

After Stevie and her peers fell from favor in the late 80s, up until Alanis, Liz Phair and the rrriot grrls came along, about the only niche in music that women had any success in, was dance or R&B.

But that's "all in the past now," and I think Stevie has proven her worthiness time and time again.
Her career had its heights, it had its depths, and she has endured to become one of the most respected, most revered, and most recognizable female rock stars of her time. :)

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 03:38 PM

Egads Brian, wipe that drool off your chin! :D

The Tower

03-03-2005, 03:41 PM

Egads Brian, wipe that drool off your chin! :D
:lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

Serrart

03-03-2005, 04:24 PM

I tried listening to OSOTM for months. I came to one conclusion:
Ewwwww. Turn her over. She's done.
I've heard that there were some later albums that were better, however, I'd lost all interest in her solo career by then(and, alot of respect for her). :shocked:
Perhaps there's a lesson for all artists here: Don't put out an album just to be putting out an album. If it's a piece of dung, flush it. :xoxo:

Or... There are more things in heaven and earth, Homer, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. :nod:

Romy

Johnny Stew

03-03-2005, 05:07 PM

Egads Brian, wipe that drool off your chin! :DI only drool when a hot guy walks past. ;) :angel:

AliP

03-03-2005, 05:10 PM

Isn't this thread named Fleetwood Mac's best produced son?
Everyone is blasting/fawning over different aspects of FM- but as for the question....
I will go with Gold Dust Woman-
when you hear Stevie's demo on the Rumour's new release, then listen to what Lindsey and the other producers did with it..... Excellent production.
Tango in the Night is a gimmie-for Lindsey,
I also love the simplicity of When I see you again- Flows beautifully between the vocals and the acoustic guitar and fading sounds....

just my ides...
~~eclipse~~

Yes, I guess it's inevitable that every post is going to boil down to a Stevie vs. Lindsey vs. Stevie solo vs. Fleetwood Mac vs. Lindsey solo etc, etc, etc, which I never understood because I get so flippin' bored reading those same arguments over and over and over. Of course, no disrespect. :xoxo:

So, that's why I tried to come up with an interesting topic that wouldn't lead to such discussions, but alas, I have failed again. ;)

HomerMcvie

03-03-2005, 08:58 PM

I only drool when a hot guy walks past. ;) :angel:
I just realized the irony of you living in BEAVER County! :rolleyes:

dissention

03-03-2005, 09:40 PM

I only drool when a hot guy walks past. ;) :angel:

Really? I drool over everything. I have very overactive salivary glands.

Hawkeye

03-03-2005, 10:34 PM

Really? I drool over everything. I have very overactive salivary glands.

nothing makes me drool when I'm concious, Sleeping is another story.

Hawkeye

03-03-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by catinthedark
Just been catching up on the last day or so of posts here. I have to chime in on my support for RAL. I LOVE this album. I've never understood the profound disdain many fans have for it. It's stood the test of time for me (and I actually hate synthesizers). I bought the first three solo albums back in 1987, and Rock a Little was the one I connected most to, and to which I listened most. I recently downloaded the RAL demos and have been listening to them non stop. Love them all (except Mirror Mirror). Sure, I also love many songs off BD and WH (and I love almost all of TISL), but if I was going off to a desert island, I'd take RAL. It hangs together better to me, and there isn't one song on it which bores me (which I can't say for BD or WH... *cough* How Still My Love... *cough* Bella Donna.. *cough* Gate and Garden... *cough* Sable on Blond... )

I have a disdain for it simply because I find it terrible in every aspect. Vocals, production, and the lyrics especially. Those songs you said you can't stand on BD and WH are among my favorites and the difference in quality between them and RAL is enormous. Sister Honey, the title cut, I Sing For the Things, The Nightmare; they're embarrassingly bad.

I hate to agree so much with Dissention and HomerMcVie but I do. RAL is just awful. Sister Honey is just embarassing. And like even songs that seem like that could be good just never get there. The album is just so freaking bad. The weird thing is save Sister Honey none of the songs are really like THAT terrible that they make you want to cut off your ears ala the The Second Time and I Still Miss Someone, but like every freaking is just blah. No Spoken Word, HAEWAFY, and I Can't Wait are all pretty good and RAL the song is great when I'm in the mood. Its such a sexy vocal. And I like listening to all the former Stevie songs she references in The Nightmare. Now OSOTM I used to hate more then RAL but it's grown on me and now I only hate I Still Miss Someone, Two Kinds of Love and Ooh My Love. Fire Burning and Cry Wolf are very mediocre, but the song I used to despice that is now a favorite of mine is Alice. I disagree with Dissention on Street Angel though. I really like that one. But really BD and WH are untouchable. TISL has some REALLY bright bright spots (title track possibly her best solo song ever) but is veruy inconsistent. Really not until SYW has she finally gotten back to her 1975-83 consistency in "my" mind. All 9 of her songs are gems. But I credit a lot of that to Lindsey, so I really don't know if she can make a truly great solo album again. hopefully she'll proove me wrong.

And How Still My Love and Sable on Blonde are just amazing both easily in my top 10 Stevie Solo songs.

henryscutter

03-04-2005, 02:06 AM

I hate to agree so much with Dissention and HomerMcVie but I do. RAL is just awful. Sister Honey is just embarassing. And like even songs that seem like that could be good just never get there. The album is just so freaking bad. The weird thing is save Sister Honey none of the songs are really like THAT terrible that they make you want to cut off your ears ala the The Second Time and I Still Miss Someone, but like every freaking is just blah. No Spoken Word, HAEWAFY, and I Can't Wait are all pretty good and RAL the song is great when I'm in the mood. Its such a sexy vocal. And I like listening to all the former Stevie songs she references in The Nightmare. Now OSOTM I used to hate more then RAL but it's grown on me and now I only hate I Still Miss Someone, Two Kinds of Love and Ooh My Love. Fire Burning and Cry Wolf are very mediocre, but the song I used to despice that is now a favorite of mine is Alice. I disagree with Dissention on Street Angel though. I really like that one. But really BD and WH are untouchable. TISL has some REALLY bright bright spots (title track possibly her best solo song ever) but is veruy inconsistent. Really not until SYW has she finally gotten back to her 1975-83 consistency in "my" mind. All 9 of her songs are gems. But I credit a lot of that to Lindsey, so I really don't know if she can make a truly great solo album again. hopefully she'll proove me wrong.

And How Still My Love and Sable on Blonde are just amazing both easily in my top 10 Stevie Solo songs.
Sister Honey may be a tad embarassing, but no more than say Soul Drifter, or Honey Hi. We are all gonna like what we like no matter how many "brilliant" post there are that say "um this is crap cuz I say so" :shrug:
I wouldn't give Lindsey all the credit for her SYW songs, if you listen to the demos they are pretty damn good :laugh: I'm all for talking up Lindsey and Christine, but I won't tear Stevie down to build them up. I don't see why others can't compliment C & L without having to insult Stevie :shocked: I am not a "Stevie only" fan it just seems like she needs defending way too often on this board. I am not one bit emotional while making this post so don't accuse me of being a Chiffonhead :rolleyes: or I'll have to bust a cap in your azz :lol: j/k i don't have any caps

ontheEdgeof17

03-04-2005, 08:26 AM

Sister Honey may be a tad embarassing, but no more than say Soul Drifter, or Honey Hi.

:eek: NEVA!

Sister Honey is the shiz....Nothing embarassing about it. One of my favorite songs! Oh YeAh!

seteca

03-04-2005, 10:56 AM

I agree, though Tango in the Night songs are great also. I think Lindsey and Richard were in their peak skills during the mid 80s

I totally agree. I know this thread is about "Fleetwood Mac" albums, but I must say that "Go Insane" has to be one of the most brilliantly produced albums I have ever heard. I cannot even begin to imagine how he went about creating all of those textures using only analogue equipment of 1983/4. Even with the latest digital technology a professional music producer would find it pretty hard to replicate all the subtle parts which happen in each song. The only (famous) band which were experimenting using similar musical techniques to those found on "Go Insane" at the time were Depeche Mode, who have always been famous for being "state of the art of electronica". A while back a friend of mine, who incidently is a big fan of Depeche Mode, heard the "Go Insane" album and his first response was "Being in Fleetwood Mac must be so suffocating for Lindsey!" I thought that was quite.....what's the word I'm looking for..........ah yes.......TRUE.

;)

The Tower

03-04-2005, 11:11 AM

I am not a "Stevie only" fan it just seems like she needs defending way too often on this board. I am not one bit emotional while making this post so don't accuse me of being a Chiffonhead :rolleyes: or I'll have to bust a cap in your azz

Jeezus..... what a Chiffonhead!

;) :laugh:

HomerMcvie

03-04-2005, 12:54 PM

Jeezus..... what a Chiffonhead!

;) :laugh:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

HomerMcvie

03-04-2005, 12:57 PM

Or... There are more things in heaven and earth, Homer, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. :nod:

Romy
What philosophy is that? I don't care for the album, and apparently, quite a few people here(and the record buying public in general) agree(d) with my assessment. :blob1:

wondergirl9847

03-04-2005, 01:11 PM

Souldrifter is embarrasing?! Since when!? That's one of my favorite songs. :( Also, what I want to play at my funeral. :)

HomerMcvie

03-04-2005, 01:14 PM

Souldrifter is embarrasing?! Since when!? That's one of my favorite songs. :( Also, what I want to play at my funeral. :)
That's also what I was thinking. It's a beautiful song. Who couldn't like it?

dissention

03-04-2005, 01:46 PM

That's also what I was thinking. It's a beautiful song. Who couldn't like it?

I'm sure people think the same thing when it comes to our disdain for Sister Honey, Homer. :wavey:

amber

03-04-2005, 01:49 PM

I'm sure people think the same thing when it comes to our disdain for Sister Honey, Homer. :wavey:
Indeedly.....

HomerMcvie

03-04-2005, 01:51 PM

I'm sure people think the same thing when it comes to our disdain for Sister Honey, Homer. :wavey:
Yeah, but Sister Honey SUCKS!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Merf

03-04-2005, 01:52 PM

Gypsy, Hold Me, and Thrown Down are the ones that come to mind for me. I thought that Tango in the Night and Isn't it Midnight were also well-produced (however, I know that "thefaceofaprettygirl" has garnered a lot of laughs, that is my fave Chris song) ;)

amber

03-04-2005, 01:55 PM

Yeah, but Sister Honey SUCKS!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nevertheless, I like it. :laugh: I refer you to "Bun".

HomerMcvie

03-04-2005, 01:58 PM

Nevertheless, I like it. :laugh: I refer you to "Bun".
Have Hollandaise Sauce, will travel! :eek:

amber

03-04-2005, 02:03 PM

Have Hollandaise Sauce, will travel! :eek:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

dissention

03-04-2005, 02:03 PM

Yeah, but Sister Honey SUCKS!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't state the obvious, I hate that. :p

While I do hate that song to pieces, I will admit that the chorus is ridiculously catchy.

henryscutter

03-04-2005, 06:17 PM

[QUOTE=The Tower]Jeezus..... what a Chiffonhead!

;) :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: I knew somebody was gonna say it. While SH isn't one of my favs there is usually something Stevie will do with her voice or with phrasing that will redeem a song for me. I like Soul Drifter if I am in the right mood for it, but it is just too, I don't know, fanciful. It is the queen of fairy farts :nod: :lol:

Serrart

03-04-2005, 06:30 PM

What philosophy is that? I don't care for the album, and apparently, quite a few people here(and the record buying public in general) agree(d) with my assessment. :blob1:

You mean the same public who buys Britney ? And I wasn't referring to that album in particular. Anyway, to say that quite a few people here agree with your assessment is accidental, not really an argumentation. Just kidding. ;)

Romy

Vianna

03-07-2005, 01:15 PM

Best produced:

Gypsy-even Lindsey thinks so=:-)

TITN

Storms-esp the version that's on the Tusk reissue bonus disc.

gibbs1510

03-07-2005, 09:25 PM

:) It's definately Gypsy. It's not only one of my all time favorite songs, but it's so crisp and done to complete perfection. It comes on the radio or in a store, and people who aren't even close to being Fleetwood Mac fans take notice. Stevie's voice is so.. I don't know how to explain it, but all I have to hear is "So I'm back..." and I fall in love all over again. Haha. Ok, done with my little rant. :D

rezamatic

03-07-2005, 11:40 PM

Souldrifter is embarrasing?! Since when!? That's one of my favorite songs. :(

Soul Drifter reminds me of a theme song from a 1980's sitcom. Especially when the guitar solo comes in, I can imagine the cast credits coming up over freeze frames of the characters, like they always did in that cheezy 80's tv style. I never thought about Soul Drifter as embarassing UNTIL I thought of it like that :rolleyes: Great song, love it, but now I can't think of it any other way, lol. :shrug:

That's TOTALLY random, but just wanted to share.