Live 1980 and The Dance 1997

[PenguinHead]

A ramble...

In comparing their two official live albums (excluding the Boston DVD/CD), I feel that the 1980 album is often overlooked by many people, and overshadowed by The Dance, especially for newer fans.

For me, the Live album really embodies the true essence of their peak live performances. Unlike The Dance -- with its numerous side musicians and compressed, steril and safe sound -- the Live album is just the five of them and the overall mix is very airy and organic. Granted --there appears to be some studio tinkering and vocal overdubs -- but generally it's the band -- the "five firelies" at their gritty best. I recall at the time of its release, Christine was quoted "it's a warts and all album."

As excited I was at the time of its release, however, I was slightly disappointed...only because I knew there were other more blistering performances (and song selection) that could have been included that would have made the album even better. Still we get some incredible songs/performances:

Oh Well
Fireflies
Farmer's Daughter
One More Night
Don't Let Me Down Again
Over and Over

In my newfound "re-appreciation" for the Live album, I wonder how other fans feel about these two albums. I wish we'll someday get a live album from their 1975-77 era. Would love to have an official release of some of their rare performances, like:

Frozen Love
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Sunny Side Of Heaven
Get Like You Used To Be
Hypnotized
Believe Me
Spare Me A Little
Why
Green Manalishi
Crystal (Did they really perform this?? There's no evidence of it other than a mention in Mick's book)

When pigs (and penguins) fly. :lol:

[shackin'up]

For me, the Live album really embodies the true essence of their peak live performances.

I'd throw away the dance in a blink of an eye if I had to choose between those two. Live 1980 rocks bigtime. And lindsey is not singing about Come, he just does it. Live in Boston would be my Nr2, if it had been released on audiodisc completely.

[MirrorInTheSky]

Fireflies is currently my favorite Fleetwood Mac song. (Because of course my favorite is never static...)

"The stiletto cuts quick..."

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I love both...although my only problems with the LIVE CD is that I would prefer it to be recorded from one show...it doesn't flow very well..and some of the performances are not from where they actually claim they are from...a few of them are not even from the actual TUSK Tour..although I loved that they listed all the tour dates in there..

The Dance was just incredible...the sound is just so superb it's hard to compare...but the performances on the LIVE CD, like Rhiannon, Oh Well, Sara an Dreams are far better

Chris

[PenguinHead]

I somewhat agree that the album may have flowed better if all the performances were from one show. Still, even The Dance album isn't from one show...it's the best of two.

The Tusk tour was their most massive tour up until that time. I like that they recorded many of the shows and (someone) selected what they thought were the best performances. But having listened to so many shows from that tour, there were some amazing performances that would have better represented the songs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the following songs were the only ones from the Rumours tour:

Monday Morning
Say You Love Me
Rhiannon
Don't Let Me Down Again

Looking at the liner notes, it's noted that there was additional guitar, percussion and keyboards by Ray Lindsey, Tony Todaro and Jeffery Sova, respectively. Ray Lindsey is familiar only because he appeared on stage to provide acoustic guitar for 'Go Your Own Way." Not sure what other songs he or the others play on.

I think they may have "sweetened" things up in the studio. "Not That Funny" seems to have more than just Mick drumming. Yet, on the bootleg of that particular performance, I don't hear that extra percussion, and the song is edited.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I thought DREAMS was also from the Rumours Tour

Chris

[strandinthewind]

All of the songs on the 1980 release show the band in their prime vocally. Therefor, I must say I like it better than The Dance. I personally think had The Dance NOT contained a video performance with Silver Springs and Landslide, it would not have sold as well. Those two sent it skyrocketing. AND - lest I be attacked for allegedly giving La Nicks too much credit, I state here I am not. Though it was her vocal and her song, the BAND played on SS and the passion just flowed :nod:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the following songs were the only ones from the Rumours tour:

Monday Morning
Say You Love Me
Rhiannon
Don't Let Me Down Again




DLMDA is from the White Album Tour.

[joe]

I thought DREAMS was also from the Rumours Tour

Chris


Don't Stop as well. Actually, both of those songs are from the Paris soundcheck....and it was filmed as well which is where the videos are from.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I love both albums. I think Chris' songs on The Dance were better selected(Everywhere, a better SYLM, YMLF). Lindsey's stuff is 10 times better on '80. The NGBA is my favorite version of that song. And call me a freak, but I love Not That Funny live. The only song better on The Dance is ISA. :thumbsup: As for Stevie, it's a toss up. I love Sara, Fireflies, and Rhiannon from '80. Landslide is excellent on both. Her fragile voice on '80 brings a tear to my eye (Fragile as in hoarse :lol: ). SS is of course a highlight from The Dance. Dreams.....both good versions.


If I had to bring one with me to a deserted island....I would take '80....

[77Rumours77]

I'd throw away the dance in a blink of an eye if I had to choose between those two. Live 1980 rocks bigtime. And lindsey is not singing about Come, he just does it. Live in Boston would be my Nr2, if it had been released on audiodisc completely.

Amen to that! I LOVE Live '80, the Dance is great. But Live '80 is more like a piece of history. :thumbsup:

[Cour]

All of the songs on the 1980 release show the band in their prime vocally. Therefor, I must say I like it better than The Dance. I personally think had The Dance NOT contained a video performance with Silver Springs and Landslide, it would not have sold as well. Those two sent it skyrocketing. AND - lest I be attacked for allegedly giving La Nicks too much credit, I state here I am not. Though it was her vocal and her song, the BAND played on SS and the passion just flowed :nod:

It's a shame they couldn't see the potential of Say Goodbye and Beautiful Child from Live in Boston. It probably wouldn't have come close to the airplay and success of The Dance, but The Dance was a reunion and they could have definitely gotten a lot of attention if they had put those 2 LIB live videos in circulation. What the heck did they release for LIB? Stand Back (Stevie twirling in those reebocks) and..... ::::scratches head to remember Lindsey's song:::::???? SHN?

dumb, dumb, dumb :(

[estranged4life]

copy of "Live" in surround sound (Just for ****s & giggles) and it sounds so much better than "the Dance" disc to my ears (But the mix I made of "the Dance" DVD's audio is even more smoking!!!), So my poor ol' copy of "the Dance" is collecting micro-inches of dust bunny breeding ground material :eek:

[strandinthewind]

It's a shame they couldn't see the potential of Say Goodbye and Beautiful Child from Live in Boston. It probably wouldn't have come close to the airplay and success of The Dance, but The Dance was a reunion and they could have definitely gotten a lot of attention if they had put those 2 LIB live videos in circulation. What the heck did they release for LIB? Stand Back (Stevie twirling in those reebocks) and..... ::::scratches head to remember Lindsey's song:::::???? SHN?

dumb, dumb, dumb :(


SG and BC were THE highlights of this last tour for me and many. Come was good (not to me though) but not single worthy on the level of SS from The Dance, etc. So, ITA with you!!!!!!

[strandinthewind]

copy of "Live" in surround sound (Just for ****s & giggles) and it sounds so much better than "the Dance" disc to my ears (But the mix I made of "the Dance" DVD's audio is even more smoking!!!), So my poor ol' copy of "the Dance" is collecting micro-inches of dust bunny breeding ground material :eek:


I think it does because The Dance's plethora of musicians tend to make it sound a tad muddled - at least to me.

[estranged4life]

SG and BC were THE highlights of this last tour for me and many. Come was good (not to me though) but not single worthy on the level of SS from The Dance, etc. So, ITA with you!!!!!!

from the crowd reaction (On the bootlegs of the 2003-2004 shows) of Beautiful Child ya could tell the fans were happy to see a new classic played in the concert setting...But people went "frikkin' fruitloops" for "Sara" in comparison :nod:

[dissention]

SG and BC were THE highlights of this last tour for me and many. Come was good (not to me though) but not single worthy on the level of SS from The Dance, etc. So, ITA with you!!!!!!

It's kind of funny, but NGBA was a highlight for me. I think it sounded better than it ever had. Red Rover was fabulous, too. Beautiful Child was Stevie's best. Wasn't a fan of Sara one bit, I thought it was atrocious and I usually adore the live versions.

[amber]

from the crowd reaction (On the bootlegs of the 2003-2004 shows) of Beautiful Child ya could tell the fans were happy to see a new classic played in the concert setting...But people went "frikkin' fruitloops" for "Sara" in comparison :nod:
Which I think was not as good as BC at all. But then, I don't love Sara that much. I did like it, though, she looked beautiful and I loved the inclusion of the video behind her. Also, she smiled more during that song, which was nice.
BC took my breath away, though.

[Hawkeye]

I think for me the SYW tour will be the tour of Come and Beautiful Child. Those really were the two biggest highlights in a tour FULL of them, but BC and Come were really the best.

[Cour]

It's kind of funny, but NGBA was a highlight for me. I think it sounded better than it ever had. Red Rover was fabulous, too. Beautiful Child was Stevie's best. Wasn't a fan of Sara one bit, I thought it was atrocious and I usually adore the live versions.

I agree and by the very end of the tour, NGBA was even better than the beginning, Lindsey was changing the vocal a bit. Red Rover was amazing....not a Sara fan but just getting something new from FM made it worthy. ;)

[ontheEdgeof17]

Am I the only one who thought Red Rover was a mess? I adore the album cut, but live? A Big thumbs down. I could have taken a bathroom break, and that's rare for me at a Mac show.

[Cour]

Am I the only one who thought Red Rover was a mess? I adore the album cut, but live? A Big thumbs down. I could have taken a bathroom break, and that's rare for me at a Mac show.

I don't think you're the only one. I don't think the song went over well in the large open venues with that fast guitar and it being an unfamiliar song. For the fans who love Red Rover (like me:)) it was one of the highlights of the shows on the 3rd leg.

After all, through the begginning of the tour, SG didn't go over well with casual fans (and many big fans). Most of them talked through it, went for beer and bathroom breaks. It was only by the last leg that a lot of casual fans started listening to SG...and that was in the front section, it got very quiet in the front area by the end of the tour. I'm not so sure the middle or back areas most fans gave the song the time of day.

[amber]

Am I the only one who thought Red Rover was a mess? I adore the album cut, but live? A Big thumbs down. I could have taken a bathroom break, and that's rare for me at a Mac show.
I liked it, Taku was smiling at me the whole time. :lol: Oh, and I thought it sounded good, too. :)

[dissention]

Am I the only one who thought Red Rover was a mess? I adore the album cut, but live? A Big thumbs down. I could have taken a bathroom break, and that's rare for me at a Mac show.

Nah, I saved all my urine for Sara. What a bloated mess that thing was.

[Cour]

Nah, I saved all my urine for Sara. What a bloated mess that thing was.


LOL! I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that. That should become a sig :nod:

[amber]

No.

San Jose was my very first Mac, Stevie, or Lindsey show. When it came to "Red Rover," there was little energy in the arena. Not even from me. I love the album version, but "Monday Morning" in its place would have been better to me. Lindsey and the other band members must like it live, though. :shrug:
Really? I guess I didn't notice the lack of energy, being so close to the front and all...And being mesmerised smiling back at Taku... :laugh: I was pretty fascinated during RR. :shrug: Too bad the sound in San Jose kinda sucked.. :distress:

[Hawkeye]

well I'm the total oppositte, Ithink the studio RR is the one weak spot on SYW but I absolutely adore the live version.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Really? I guess I didn't notice the lack of energy, being so close to the front and all...And being mesmerised smiling back at Taku... :laugh: I was pretty fascinated during RR. :shrug: Too bad the sound in San Jose kinda sucked.. :distress:


I just missed WTWCT too much, I guess. I used to dance and dance and dance to that song. You should have seen me at the LIB taping. It was a hoot.

[Johnny Stew]

It's a shame they couldn't see the potential of Say Goodbye and Beautiful Child from Live in Boston. It probably wouldn't have come close to the airplay and success of The Dance, but The Dance was a reunion and they could have definitely gotten a lot of attention if they had put those 2 LIB live videos in circulation. What the heck did they release for LIB? Stand Back (Stevie twirling in those reebocks) and..... ::::scratches head to remember Lindsey's song:::::???? SHN?

dumb, dumb, dumb :(I think the only video released from 'Live In Boston' was "Landslide." Though "Stand Back" was up for download on several websites.

I'm not sure that there was an "official" single though (ie: for radio play).

They should have definitely released either "Say Goodbye" or "Beautiful Child."
I really think they both would have hit home with radio listeners, the way that "Silver Springs" and "Landslide" did from 'The Dance.'

Plus, in the case of "Say Goodbye," it would have been able to do double-duty and help promote 'Say You Will,' too.

[Johnny Stew]

LOL! I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that. That should become a sig :nod:I don't know... maybe in dissention's early days it would have had more impact.

These days, his pithy comments ring hollow... they seem plodding and careless to me.
I think he just types the first thing that comes into his head and clicks Send. There's no self-editing or refining.

Oh well... what can ya do?! :laugh: ;)

[David]

The Tusk tour was their most massive tour up until that time. I like that they recorded many of the shows and (someone) selected what they thought were the best performances. But having listened to so many shows from that tour, there were some amazing performances that would have better represented the songs.The original plans were to make the album just the last two nights of the tour in L.A. I'd have been really happy with that!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the following songs were the only ones from the Rumours tour:

Monday Morning
Say You Love Me
Rhiannon
Don't Let Me Down AgainAll of those, plus Dreams, Over My Head & Don't Stop, predate the Tusk Tour.
Looking at the liner notes, it's noted that there was additional guitar, percussion and keyboards by Ray Lindsey, Tony Todaro and Jeffery Sova, respectively. Ray Lindsey is familiar only because he appeared on stage to provide acoustic guitar for 'Go Your Own Way." Not sure what other songs he or the others play on.Ray also used to play on Second Hand News & Gypsy. Todaro only played on Tusk from behind a partially opaque backdrup, & Sova stayed backstage & played the brass arrangement on Tusk, as well as some pad on Hold Me on the 1982 tour. All three of those guys were used minimally at best -- a far cry from the backup guys in 1997, who were part of the band, & thus present throughout the entire concert.
I think they may have "sweetened" things up in the studio. "Not That Funny" seems to have more than just Mick drumming. Yet, on the bootleg of that particular performance, I don't hear that extra percussion, and the song is edited.I think there's a fair amount of stuff -- both vocal & instrumental -- that's studio-added. But in general that album is really pretty basic. The members of the band even said back then that they didn't spend much time on overdubs; they just didn't sink much time into that album, & the selection of tapes that tracks were lifted from bears that out. We always complain about there having been "better versions" of things, but that practically prooves Fleetwood Mac didn't spend much time listening to many tapes.

[amber]

I don't know... maybe in dissention's early days it would have had more impact.

These days, his pithy comments ring hollow... they seem plodding and careless to me.
I think he just types the first thing that comes into his head and clicks Send. There's no self-editing or refining.

Oh well... what can ya do?! :laugh: ;)
Was that a play on how Diss always talks about Stevie? If so, it was hilarious! :)

[Cour]

I think the only video released from 'Live In Boston' was "Landslide." Though "Stand Back" was up for download on several websites.

I'm not sure that there was an "official" single though (ie: for radio play).



Didn't they play either Stand Back and/or SHN on VH Classics? I think they've even been playing it in the last month or two.

I don't think they were a 'single' per se. Perhaps if they had spent more than 2 seconds thinking of the "safe" songs to release and took a chance with SG and BC, it could have been picked up by, or put on rotation or top 20 on the regular VH1 channel. I'm not saying anything miraculous would have happened like The Dance, times and economics are different, but the same old dumb songs were a waste. Many fans who loved The Dance didn't even know LIB existed.

[Johnny Stew]

Was that a play on how Diss always talks about Stevie? If so, it was hilarious! :)Yes'm! :D

And thank you, kind lady. :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

Didn't they play either Stand Back and/or SHN on VH Classics? I think they've even been playing it in the last month or two.

I don't think they were a 'single' per se. Perhaps if they had spent more than 2 seconds thinking of the "safe" songs to release and took a chance with SG and BC, it could have been picked up by, or put on rotation or top 20 on the regular VH1 channel. I'm not saying anything miraculous would have happened like The Dance, times and economics are different, but the same old dumb songs were a waste. Many fans who loved The Dance didn't even know LIB existed.Oops... I forgot that a lot of people saw "Stand Back" on VH1-Classic (and one of Lindsey's songs, but, like you, I'm drawing a blank on exactly which).
I only get standard VH1, and they only played "Landslide." :(

They definitely missed the boat when they serviced "Landslide."
It was a nice enough rendition, but it wasn't going to match the 'Dance' version for emotionality or resonance. And given that the 'Dance' wasn't all that long ago, it seemed redundant to release it again.

[Cour]

Oops... I forgot that a lot of people saw "Stand Back" on VH1-Classic (and one of Lindsey's songs, but, like you, I'm drawing a blank on exactly which).
I only get standard VH1, and they only played "Landslide." :(

They definitely missed the boat when they serviced "Landslide."
It was a nice enough rendition, but it wasn't going to match the 'Dance' version for emotionality or resonance. And given that the 'Dance' wasn't all that long ago, it seemed redundant to release it again.

I think the other song was SHN.

I totally forgot they even released LIB Landslide. It didn't hold a candle to the Dance version and with the amount of airplay the original and DC's version received it was a stupid safe release.

BC could have been LIB's Landslide.

DUMB DUMB DUMB

[Cour]

Was that a play on how Diss always talks about Stevie? If so, it was hilarious! :)

thanks, Amber. That totally went over my head. I just thought the original comment was very funny :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

A ramble...

In comparing their two official live albums (excluding the Boston DVD/CD), I feel that the 1980 album is often overlooked by many people, and overshadowed by The Dance, especially for newer fans.

For me, the Live album really embodies the true essence of their peak live performances. Unlike The Dance -- with its numerous side musicians and compressed, steril and safe sound -- the Live album is just the five of them and the overall mix is very airy and organic. Granted --there appears to be some studio tinkering and vocal overdubs -- but generally it's the band -- the "five firelies" at their gritty best. I recall at the time of its release, Christine was quoted "it's a warts and all album."

As excited I was at the time of its release, however, I was slightly disappointed...only because I knew there were other more blistering performances (and song selection) that could have been included that would have made the album even better. Still we get some incredible songs/performances:

Oh Well
Fireflies
Farmer's Daughter
One More Night
Don't Let Me Down Again
Over and Over

In my newfound "re-appreciation" for the Live album, I wonder how other fans feel about these two albums. I wish we'll someday get a live album from their 1975-77 era. Would love to have an official release of some of their rare performances, like:

Frozen Love
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Sunny Side Of Heaven
Get Like You Used To Be
Hypnotized
Believe Me
Spare Me A Little
Why
Green Manalishi
Crystal (Did they really perform this?? There's no evidence of it other than a mention in Mick's book)

When pigs (and penguins) fly. :lol:

great post!

[Kelly]

Dissention...what was it about Sara that you hated? The only complaint I really have is the part when Lindsey comes in with "anywhere...anywhere..anywhere...I would go anywhere...". He sounded like he was screaming into the mic and he did it at every show. I enjoyed the song alot mainly because Stevie actually seemed happy when she was singing it. She smiled and I have always thought she looked stunning in red. It was a nice, refreshing change.

As for Red Rover, I liked it. I liked it much more live, than I did on the album. It was quite amusing watching Stevie mouth all the words.......

Say Goodbye was a gem that the band did not capitalize on. They habitually make bad decisions like that. Not realzing the potential of that song is typical for them. After the success of the Dance...with the emotional punch of Landslide and Silver Springs..it is sort of mind boggling that they did not pursue the Say Goodbye/Stevie and Lindsey interaction angle. Perhaps Lindsey did not want to? Beautiful Child is another one of those wasted opportunities...a live video of that song would have been a much better choice than another Landslide video. Doesn't the label make these type of choices though? I remember reading about Peacekeeper and how WB wanted that to be the first single.
So maybe most of the blame falls on them and not the band?

[dissention]

Dissention...what was it about Sara that you hated? The only complaint I really have is the part when Lindsey comes in with "anywhere...anywhere..anywhere...I would go anywhere...". He sounded like he was screaming into the mic and he did it at every show. I enjoyed the song alot mainly because Stevie actually seemed happy when she was singing it. She smiled and I have always thought she looked stunning in red. It was a nice, refreshing change.

I thought she sounded awful on it for one, her current voice does not suit the song at all. I also don't think she was very into it, it came across more like a chore than something she enjoyed performing. Musically, it sounded rather flat to me. It just went on and on and on and on. I just didn't like it at all and I love it live.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I thought she sounded awful on it for one, her current voice does not suit the song at all. I also don't think she was very into it, it came across more like a chore than something she enjoyed performing. Musically, it sounded rather flat to me. It just went on and on and on and on. I just didn't like it at all and I love it live.


I wonder if it was a "I wanna do Sara live again" or a "You will perform Sara on this leg"?


Personally, I thought it was a gem. I'm very glad that I got to hear it live in my lifetime. It is such a classic FM song. Now if they would whip out some more stuff out of the vault......

[GeminiCusp82]

I wonder if it was a "I wanna do Sara live again" or a "You will perform Sara on this leg"?


Personally, I thought it was a gem. I'm very glad that I got to hear it live in my lifetime. It is such a classic FM song. Now if they would whip out some more stuff out of the vault......

Sisters Of the Moon definately..I did get tired of Gypsy lol...Seven Wonders would be nice but I must be dreaming because that would never happen...On the Destiny Rules Doc if you zoom in on the pieces of paper they have on the post it board during the rehearsals you see that there is a paper saying Storms. I wonder how long it took for them to dismiss that one from the set? I think that would have sounded awesome live. Even Angel would be nice. Thrown Down...who knows what else they could do if they tour again. I didnt get to go to a 2nd leg concert but I managed to get quite a few bootlegs from 04 and I do love Sara but it seems toward the end of the tour she was kind of straining more and more each night to hit those last notes...It is amazing to me because you hear some bootlegs of the 2003 stuff and Silver Springs sounds strained (LIB)..but then some others she sounds wonderful almost like she did on The Dance. What is up with that...lol

[gldstwmn]

It's a shame they couldn't see the potential of Say Goodbye and Beautiful Child from Live in Boston.
(

IMO, the live version of Say Goodbye is far better than the studio version, kudos to Leo Kottke aside. I don't understand why SG and BC were left off the audio disc. :confused:

[gldstwmn]

Come was good (not to me though) but not single worthy on the level of SS from The Dance, etc.

It's too long to be a radio hit. Now, twenty five years ago, it would have been the perfect radio hit.

[gldstwmn]

But people went "frikkin' fruitloops" for "Sara" in comparison :nod:

I think in part that's because the younger fans had never seen it live.

[gldstwmn]

I don't know... maybe in dissention's early days it would have had more impact.

These days, his pithy comments ring hollow... they seem plodding and careless to me.
I think he just types the first thing that comes into his head and clicks Send. There's no self-editing or refining.

Oh well... what can ya do?! :laugh: ;)


Did you just say something negative? :shocked: Good lord, what's the world coming to? J/k, Johnny Stew. :wavey:

[Miss Vicky]

But people went "frikkin' fruitloops" for "Sara" in comparison :nod:

At the last show I went to, people went "frikkin' fruitloops" when Stevie turned her back to them. WTF? I swear for some of the chiffon-heads it's more like they're members of a cult with Stevie as their leader than just being her fans.

Kool Aid anyone? :laugh:

[Hawkeye]

At the last show I went to, people went "frikkin' fruitloops" when Stevie turned her back to them. WTF? I swear for some of the chiffon-heads it's more like they're members of a cult with Stevie as their leader than just being her fans.

Kool Aid anyone? :laugh:

Yeah, it always puzzles me how everyone goes absolutely nuts when Stevie turns her back and spreads out her arms. I would be pissed if I was Lindsey who has to run laps around the stage shedding 5 pounds a night with 4-5 minute guitar solos and Stevie beats his applause by wearing a red shawl and spreading her arms :laugh:

[dontlookdown]

I love Lindsey's tracks on the Dance and all of Stevie's w/ the exception of Rhiannon. Christine falls flat on everyone.

"Live", for me is great from start to finish. I love its flaws - it's electric energy and gorgeous guitar - it's what has always made this band so special.

The extra musicians and back up singers mostly annoyed me during the last few tours.

[Kelly]

I felt like Stevie seemed happier during Sara..like she actually wanted to be there for a change! Maybe it is just my perception but I did not get the feeling she was forced or coerced to perform the song but who knows? The lame ass reasons she has given for years as to why she couldn't perform Sara live went out the window because it did sound good..the band was able to pull it off.... Stevie will never ever be able to say "it doesn't translate to stage well" again.

To stay on topic..I love both albums. The Dance has alot of emotional significance for me but the Live album brings back great memories. I remember my Mom putting that record on in the morning when she would wake me up for school! (Dad put on Willie Nelson...oy...I can still hear it in my head)
A favorite on that album is Fireflies.

[Hawkeye]

Diss, didn't you see Stevie at like the height of her illness. It was the 2 show return she made in the middle of 2 long breaks. You were NOT seeing her at her best.

[dissention]

Diss, didn't you see Stevie at like the height of her illness. It was the 2 show return she made in the middle of 2 long breaks. You were NOT seeing her at her best.

Yeah, but I got the same impressions from the boots. :( I don't like Sara on Tusk, but I adore it live. For some reason, though, I think they should have let it be because I found it unlistenable this past tour.

[amber]

Yeah, but I got the same impressions from the boots. :( I don't like Sara on Tusk, but I adore it live. For some reason, though, I think they should have let it be because I found it unlistenable this past tour.
But, But, she smiled so much during it! :p :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

The lame ass reasons she has given for years as to why she couldn't perform Sara live went out the window because it did sound good..the band was able to pull it off.... Stevie will never ever be able to say "it doesn't translate to stage well" again.I always felt she was doing a bit of artful dodging there, and that her reasons for no longer performing "Sara" were probably personal and had nothing to do with how well or how poorly it may have "translated to stage."

[GeminiCusp82]

I love both...although my only problems with the LIVE CD is that I would prefer it to be recorded from one show...it doesn't flow very well..and some of the performances are not from where they actually claim they are from...a few of them are not even from the actual TUSK Tour..although I loved that they listed all the tour dates in there..

Chris

Well, it just says Fleetwood Mac Live. It doesnt say Fleetwood Mac Live Tusk Tour. Maybe that is why they did it that way. Who knows

[dissention]

I always felt she was doing a bit of artful dodging there, and that her reasons for no longer performing "Sara" were probably personal and had nothing to do with how well or how poorly it may have "translated to stage."

I think it was a master plan she cooked up years ago in an effort to ensure that tickets would still sell 15+ years on.

:lol:

[GeminiCusp82]

I love Lindsey's tracks on the Dance and all of Stevie's w/ the exception of Rhiannon. Christine falls flat on everyone.

"Live", for me is great from start to finish. I love its flaws - it's electric energy and gorgeous guitar - it's what has always made this band so special.

The extra musicians and back up singers mostly annoyed me during the last few tours.

I like the back up singers but only on Stevie's tours where they should be. When they are with the Mac they seem so over powering..even on some of Stevie's solo tours they are much louder sounding than her half of the time. But I agree that the old era of FM without the back up singers was great. I think the Mirage Tour was the last tour they did with just the 5 of them and I think Ray Lindsey but he doesnt really count except when you see him on GYOW. I think that is Ray Lindsey...I could be wrong...

[PenguinHead]

I totally forgot they even released LIB Landslide. It didn't hold a candle to the Dance version and with the amount of airplay the original and DC's version received it was a stupid safe release.

BC could have been LIB's Landslide.

DUMB DUMB DUMB

No only was it dumb...it was redundant, redundant and more redundant. How about a new word to describe some of Fleetwood Mac's foolish marketing decisions: "REDUMBDANT."

I think it's so SHAMELESS how they milk the same small group of songs, twenty-something years after the fact, as if any of the work they have done since then has no merit.

Granted, it's mostly indicative of them bowing to the (mostly) self-impossed pressure to appeal to the masses , i.e. the casual fan who only knows and cares about the songs that brought them massive fame. As a result, we get songs like Landslide released (in various forms) in 1975, 1980, 1992, 1997, 2002 and 2004.

The true, loyal long-standing fans get fed substandard, uninspired product that we often already have in various other forms. The "Live In Boston" audio cd was insulting to me. Shameless! Even the DVD wasn't really up-to-par with similar product from other bands.

In concert we get to hear worn out concert performances of Rhiannon and Dreams, long after they should have been retired, preventing the band from really progressing in order to establish "new" classics. In fact, there seems to be more degression as time goes on. They are now dangerously close to being seen as an "oldies" band.

For a band of their stature and longevity, their miss-steps and play-it-too-safe tactics baffle and frustrate the hell of out me. Maybe it's unfair to compare them to other bands. Yet, I see bands with much smaller stature and fan bases putting out product with inspired design, tailored specifically to their fans.

Take a band like REM. They had a successful career for many years as an "underground band," performing in 2000-5000 seat theaters. When the song "Stand" hit the charts, it made them famous to the masses. Then they they started performing in large stadiums. Did they continue to play "Stand" years and years to come just to placate the casual fan who only really knows them through radio play?

NO! NO! NO! And congrats to them. In actuality, they hated that song....considered it a novelty. It was their biggest hit...and they rarely, if ever, play it. Too bad for the casual fan who attends their concert and feels slighted. WA! WA! WA! Great for the ardent fans who are happy to hear a great band performing a show that embraces and establishes their newer material, and gives referential treatment to lesser known and obscure older songs.

They seem to be entirely in touch with their followers. Fleetwood Mac seems totally out of touch with their followers and very much in the pocket of the hapless, soul-less monalith that is the antiquated record industry.

And I lothe the mindset of the casual fans who attend concerts and expect (and demand) to hear the hits and take bathroom breaks during songs they don't know. I guess it may be a generation gap or something...but when I go see a band I like, I have no expectations other than a good show. When they do the unexpected, it's inspired and special. If they do just what is expected, it's like Las Vegas -- tightly safe and canned.

The independant labels are doing a much better job representing their artists. Fleetwood Mac deserves better.

I could go on...but I'll save my high-blood pressure for something more important. :shrug:

[Jyqm]

Three cheers, and very well said! Couldn't have put it better.

No only was it dumb...it was redundant, redundant and more redundant. How about a new word to describe some of Fleetwood Mac's foolish marketing decisions: "REDUMBDANT."

I think it's so SHAMELESS how they milk the same small group of songs, twenty-something years after the fact, as if any of the work they have done since then has no merit.

Granted, it's mostly indicative of them bowing to the (mostly) self-impossed pressure to appeal to the masses , i.e. the casual fan who only knows and cares about the songs that brought them massive fame. As a result, we get songs like Landslide released (in various forms) in 1975, 1980, 1992, 1997, 2002 and 2004.

The true, loyal long-standing fans get fed substandard, uninspired product that we often already have in various other forms. The "Live In Boston" audio cd was insulting to me. Shameless! Even the DVD wasn't really up-to-par with similar product from other bands.

In concert we get to hear worn out concert performances of Rhiannon and Dreams, long after they should have been retired, preventing the band from really progressing in order to establish "new" classics. In fact, there seems to be more degression as time goes on. They are now dangerously close to being seen as an "oldies" band.

For a band of their stature and longevity, their miss-steps and play-it-too-safe tactics baffle and frustrate the hell of out me. Maybe it's unfair to compare them to other bands. Yet, I see bands with much smaller stature and fan bases putting out product with inspired design, tailored specifically to their fans.

Take a band like REM. They had a successful career for many years as an "underground band," performing in 2000-5000 seat theaters. When the song "Stand" hit the charts, it made them famous to the masses. Then they they started performing in large stadiums. Did they continue to play "Stand" years and years to come just to placate the casual fan who only really knows them through radio play?

NO! NO! NO! And congrats to them. In actuality, they hated that song....considered it a novelty. It was their biggest hit...and they rarely, if ever, play it. Too bad for the casual fan who attends their concert and feels slighted. WA! WA! WA! Great for the ardent fans who are happy to hear a great band performing a show that embraces and establishes their newer material, and gives referential treatment to lesser known and obscure older songs.

They seem to be entirely in touch with their followers. Fleetwood Mac seems totally out of touch with their followers and very much in the pocket of the hapless, soul-less monalith that is the antiquated record industry.

And I lothe the mindset of the casual fans who attend concerts and expect (and demand) to hear the hits and take bathroom breaks during songs they don't know. I guess it may be a generation gap or something...but when I go see a band I like, I have no expectations other than a good show. When they do the unexpected, it's inspired and special. If they do just what is expected, it's like Las Vegas -- tightly safe and canned.

The independant labels are doing a much better job representing their artists. Fleetwood Mac deserves better.

I could go on...but I'll save my high-blood pressure for something more important. :shrug:

[David]

I figure that, for a long time, Stevie Nicks was not in a stable or "good" enough place emotionally to perform "Sara." When she had the cocaine or the tranquilizers or the alcohol to numb the pain or occupy her mind, I'm guessing that the emotional resonance would not be there. She was most likely able to "pick up" after performing "Sara" and go on. Now, sober, Stevie Nicks would have to face the reality that all of the events that inspired her song happened, and that time in her life is over--it will never come again. Perhaps these reasons are why she chose not to perform the fan favorite that it "Sara" for years.This is an excellent hypothesis, & seems very plausible to me. The only thing that is still puzzling is from a comment she made to Jim Ladd back in 1979: "I love performing it onstage. It's the absolute delight of my night."

My own hypothesis concerns the way that sometimes casual remarks made to us insinuate themselves in our consciousness far deeper than they were intended, & fairly haunt us -- sometimes for years afterward. My hunch is that either one of the musicians in her band or one of the musicians in Fleetwood Mac, at some point way back when, made some comment about how mechanical the music of "Sara" is when it's played live, & about how it doesn't capture the weird sonic canvas it developed in the studio. Maybe Stevie reacted to that pretty seriously; I can imagine Christine or Lindsey (or even Waddy or Benmont, solo-side) saying something about "Sara" being a bit boring onstage instrumentally, & because of that, Stevie over the years refusing to play it in concert, partly out of agreement but partly out of a confused hurt.

Imagine you had written something & were playing it live, but someone in your band said something negative about how it wasn't working, perhaps -- you might say, "Well, fine. Let's just not play it at all."

Feelings in band situations are always a lot more volatile & sensitive than they are in other situations. Those of you in bands know what I'm talking about.

[Kelly]

I always felt she was doing a bit of artful dodging there, and that her reasons for no longer performing "Sara" were probably personal and had nothing to do with how well or how poorly it may have "translated to stage."


Agreed. That is why I felt the reasons she gave were rather lame. However, I can understand and empathize with her. Personally, I do not think the song is ALL about what Justin described above, partially perhaps but I think there is alot more to it. The seventeen minute version seems to touch on a variety of subjects/feelings/emotions...so I do not presume to know what Stevie is feeling when performing it live. I do not judge her. My point was that IMO, Sara did go over well live so that particular excuse will be moot in the future if Stevie decides she does not want to perform the song.
Interestingly, Stevie did NOT cite Sara as one of the most emotional to perform live each night when the question was posed to her by Miss Ashley over on the Nicksfix. Perhaps some people just jump to the conclusion that it is a highly emotional or sad song for Stevie based solely on Henley's comments regarding Sara? While that may be partially what Sara is about..I do think there is much more involved in the song like Mick, Don, her career, her writing, Lindsey. Stevie has said it was about what was happening in all the band members lives at the time......

BTW..just making conversation..not trying to be argumentative. I do think Sara is a highly emotional song for La Nicks..just not for the reasons some people do.

[stefan]

They are now dangerously close to being seen as an "oldies" band.

And I lothe the mindset of the casual fans who attend concerts and expect (and demand) to hear the hits and take bathroom breaks during songs they don't know. I guess it may be a generation gap or something...but when I go see a band I like, I have no expectations other than a good show. When they do the unexpected, it's inspired and special. If they do just what is expected, it's like Las Vegas -- tightly safe and canned.

The independant labels are doing a much better job representing their artists. Fleetwood Mac deserves better.

I could go on...but I'll save my high-blood pressure for something more important. :shrug:

A great posting you made.
The problem would be, that they couldn`t fill arenas but would have to play smaller venues. No way they`d consider that. It is the same problem that prevents LB from hiring an indie label and bring his songs out on a regular basis. Once you had this superstar status you can`t be content with less than that. At least they can`t. It is the same reason and problem that makes them re-tell and re-act the silly love and romance and rumours tragedy- story again and again with all the silly rehearsed speeches and gestures on stage. I`d like to never hear that crap again, but as long as I want to hear some LB music I will have to.

There are some examples of famous artists going the way you decribed PenguinHead. I visited Lou Reeds "New York" concert back in 89 and although a lot of 68ers cried out for the Velvet hits or for "Walk on the wild side" he played the entire new album (except of one song out of political reasons) in the first half of the concert. In the second half he played songs from the last album, the album before and also earlier hits. He really mixed it up and he presented his new stuff.

Even the Stones did that back in 89 in opposition to the later tours (unfortunately)

Or take Neil Young, who only played new songs on his last german tour. Were there fans, who wanted older stuff? Yes. But he did it right. He still is a living artist not his own revival band. That`s the way it should be no matter how old you are.

[PenguinHead]

The problem would be, that they couldn`t fill arenas but would have to play smaller venues. No way they`d consider that. It is the same problem that prevents LB from hiring an indie label and bring his songs out on a regular basis. Once you had this superstar status you can`t be content with less than that. At least they can`t.

Wow! You hit the nail...excuse my pun...on the penguin head! A very articulate and accurate assessment!!! That essentially was the subtext of my statements...I just couldn't formulate it as well as you did.

I'm fortunate to live in Portland Oregon (a great city!!) where there are a lot of smaller venues where I get to see -- up-close and personal --artists that I feel represent the highest caliber and integrity of singer/songwriters...people like Aimee Mann, Neil Finn, Elvis Costello etc...and the tickets are usually in the 20-35 dollar price range.

Lindsey doesn't realize how contridictory he is when he speaks ad nauseum about spontenaity. However, we've got to give him credit for pushing the envelope with studio recordings like Tusk and Say You Will. He certainly adds a progressive edge (like it or not) that without, would not give the band the respect that they currently have.

Still, he must feel very artistically stiffled to have to --at this point in his long career - bow to constraints of what Stevie calls "the commerical gods." As a result, they are becoming a parody of themselves.

[HomerMcvie]

A great posting you made.
The problem would be, that they couldn`t fill arenas but would have to play smaller venues. No way they`d consider that. It is the same problem that prevents LB from hiring an indie label and bring his songs out on a regular basis. Once you had this superstar status you can`t be content with less than that. At least they can`t. It is the same reason and problem that makes them re-tell and re-act the silly love and romance and rumours tragedy- story again and again with all the silly rehearsed speeches and gestures on stage. I`d like to never hear that crap again,
I couldn't agree more. They could be FAR more creative in their song selections, but insist on milking a 30 year old breakup. 30 YEARS!!! Let it go, for gawd's sake! :nod:

[PenguinHead]

I couldn't agree more. They could be FAR more creative in their song selections, but insist on milking a 30 year old breakup. 30 YEARS!!! Let it go, for gawd's sake! :nod:

Yet, even here on this board, there are fans that perpetuate this long ago drama. They eat it up like a tired soap opera...and theorize and make suppositions about issues and dynamics in the band that really no longer exist.

I guess many of them are younger, newer fans who are attempting to revive and connect with the drama of band's heyday that they weren't able to experience in real time. (Or maybe they are just flat-out drama queens! lol) I can understand this. But as someone who followed the band ardently since 1977, it's so old!!! "And I'm getting older too." :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

I think Fleetwood Mac does a "fairly decent" balancing act with its concert sets. Not ideal, of course, but fairly decent.
I personally think a band should appeal to casual fans AND die-hard fans.
After all, we shouldn't act as if we're the only ones buying tickets... the "casuals" spent their hard-earned money just the same as we did.

I definitely agree with the notion that the band could be doing more for the die-hards though... I can't and won't argue that. But I do disagree with the idea that they should just strip away the majority of the hit singles and play two hours of songs that 70% of the audience hasn't heard.

Now if they toured more frequently, then I could see them doing a completely "non-hits" set, or, at the very least, one that's much lighter on the hits.
But, as it is, we get a Fleetwood Mac tour one year and then nothing again for four or five years (or longer)... so they probably feel more pressure to cover all of the bases when they do tour. In the best of all possible worlds, it would be skewed more in our favor, but it can't be easy trying to please every type of fan (and, let's face it, even just amongst the die-hards, there are quite a number who still love to hear the big hits, while many other die-hards are sick of them).

Plus, I always think we should keep in mind that we tend to burn ourselves out, in many cases, through the dozens upon dozens of bootleg concerts we have from each and every tour.
If we only saw or heard just one or maybe two concerts with similar setlists, every five years, it might not seem as repetitive to us. But I could be wrong. :shrug:

[MirrorInTheSky]

Brains AND looks. *sigh*

I think Fleetwood Mac does a "fairly decent" balancing act with its concert sets. Not ideal, of course, but fairly decent.
I personally think a band should appeal to casual fans AND die-hard fans.
After all, we shouldn't act as if we're the only ones buying tickets... the "casuals" spent their hard-earned money just the same as we did.

I definitely agree with the notion that the band could be doing more for the die-hards though... I can't and won't argue that. But I do disagree with the idea that they should just strip away the majority of the hit singles and play two hours of songs that 70% of the audience hasn't heard.

Now if they toured more frequently, then I could see them doing a completely "non-hits" set, or, at the very least, one that's much lighter on the hits.
But, as it is, we get a Fleetwood Mac tour one year and then nothing again for four or five years (or longer)... so they probably feel more pressure to cover all of the bases when they do tour. In the best of all possible worlds, it would be skewed more in our favor, but it can't be easy trying to please every type of fan (and, let's face it, even just amongst the die-hards, there are quite a number who still love to hear the big hits, while many other die-hards are sick of them).

Plus, I always think we should keep in mind that we tend to burn ourselves out, in many cases, through the dozens upon dozens of bootleg concerts we have from each and every tour.
If we only saw or heard just one or maybe two concerts with similar setlists, every five years, it might not seem as repetitive to us. But I could be wrong. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

Brains AND looks. *sigh*:o
That was so sweet... thank you. :xoxo:

But I'm really just a dork! :D

[dissention]

But I'm really just a dork! :D

SPORK! :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

SPORK! :laugh:Huh?! :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

Huh?! :laugh: :laugh:

I was saying earlier how the word dork always reminds me of a spork. :laugh: Most unnecessary invention ever.

[Johnny Stew]

I was saying earlier how the word dork always reminds me of a spork. :laugh: Most unnecessary invention ever.Ahh, ok... I missed that comment.
NOW it makes sense! :laugh: