Still ten percent??

[Villavic]

Just curious, I've been reading or hearing since long ago that the homosexual population in the world is around 10 percent. Is it still true?

It looks to me that it is more than 10%, buy maybe it's because now medias are far more open (and of course also people in general) about this topic so there are more gays "out" of the closet.

Of course this can be relative, since it should include an analysis like.. are you including bi? "ocasional" gays? just who have sex? or also those who fall in love with? etc..

Anyway, does anybody know about recent and reliable statistics?

[dissention]

"Occasional gays."

That made me laugh my ass off, dear. :laugh: Love that term!

[amber]

I've heard that throughout time it has always been 10-25 percent, and i think it tends toward the higher number. Don't have a statistic site, though.

[strandinthewind]

Who knows for sure and it really is impossible IMO to get an accurate number when you have people who will never admit it (due mostly to religious and social stigmatization) and then those who have group sex and get off with the same sex during it and then those who mess around on the side. I personally think everyone is just sexual and to draw lines is ridiculous. I mean what is masterbation - it certainly is not heterosexual sex. In fact, in some places, it is considered a very homo thing to do.

[Villavic]

"Occasional gays."

That made me laugh my ass off, dear. :laugh: Love that term!

Yeah, I know, I couldn't find a better english word,

What I mean is people that sometimes do it (just sex), but I guess they really should be also bi. Of course you ask them and they deny it.,

[dissention]

Yeah, I know, I couldn't find a better english word,

What I mean is people that sometimes do it (just sex), but I guess they really should be also bi. Of course you ask them and they deny it.,

I don't deny it. :lol:

I agree with what Jason said, though. He made good points.

[Villavic]

Who knows for sure and it really is impossible IMO to get an accurate number when you have people who will never admit it (due mostly to religious and social stigmatization) and then those who have group sex and get off with the same sex during it and then those who mess around on the side. I personally think everyone is just sexual and to draw lines is ridiculous. I mean what is masterbation - it certainly is not heterosexual sex. In fact, in some places, it is considered a very homo thing to do.

Interesting point.
In Colombia there was an anonymous survey, I read few years ago. And there was a high increased number of "straight" men who admited they have at least one homo sex relationship, and enjoyed it. But I can't remember the %. I do remember I thought in Peru it would give the same % results

[strandinthewind]

Interesting point.
In Colombia there was an anonymous survey, I read few years ago. And there was a high increased number of "straight" men who admited they have at least one homo sex relationship, and enjoyed it. But I can't remember the %. I do remember I thought in Peru it would give the same % results

The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.

[strandinthewind]

I don't deny it. :lol:

I agree with what Jason said, though. He made good points.

THANK YOU :D :D :D :D :D

Interestingly, Kinsey's study is probably still very applicable today. He really had a way of making people open up.

[Villavic]

The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. .

Yes, however it is changing. It is less hard than in the 70s or 80s. For example, when I was at college, it was unimaginable that a kid could visit a gay disco. Now many guys (18yo) have visited and they don't deny it (of course they say it was just for curious or for the music. But at leas they are not ashame it.
And there is more symptoms about it.


I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.
HA! I'm sure than even more than ten thousand.. ;)

[ontheEdgeof17]

Same here. Reminds me of an article I read that stated an anonymous American politician said, "I'm not gay--it's just my penis that is!" ":laugh:


:laugh: That burns my crawl just like "I'm str8 acting". WTF?!?!

[markolas]

:laugh: That burns my crawl just like "I'm str8 acting". WTF?!?!

It's not as bad as using the words "mangina" and "sh*t p*ssy." Ugh...

[DrummerDeanna]

The Latino culture is esp. hard on gay people. I think it is the whole Machismo thing made severer by the Catholic guilt doctrine. I know more than one Latino who has multiple boy partners outside of his "perfectly happy" heterosexual marriage.

:nod: This is very true....in El Paso, TX there's this big gay culture - we call them the El Paso gay boys...they all look eerily alike and come from similar backgrounds (not ALL - I'm generalizing)....in many cases their mothers accept them - but their fathers not so much....or in some cases they are ostracized by their entire families.

My good friend Matthew is a good example...his father still doesn't know he's gay (I don't know HOW) - actually I think he does know - they make horrible remarks to him when he's home....and his family still talks to him and such - but if he makes any reference at all to being gay or anything gay they yell at him and make him feel like s**t - it's very sad...

[strandinthewind]

. . . I agree with Jason (surprisingly), . . .

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[GateandGarden]

What do y'all think about the conservative sites that say 10 percent is too high? I've visited many and they often say the 10 percent thing is made up by the gay community in order to obtain more recognition, etc. I've seen some sites that claim it's really only about 1-3 percent. Just based on the gay people I've met, I would say that can't be accurate, and I'm in a place where coming out of the closet is, in some cases, comparable to signing your death warrant. Also, I read Eric Marcus' Is It a Choice?, and he thought the 10 percent was very inaccurate as well. (And he's a gay guy--it's a pro-gay book designed to dispel myths). However, he doesn't claim to have scientific evidence or be an expert. But, from what he's seen, he thinks it's about 4 to 5 percent. That is discouraging to me when I think of finding someone to be with! But, as Jason already pointed out, it's really difficult to do an accurate study on this because there are so many people out there who will never admit that they are gay or bi.

[ontheEdgeof17]

What do y'all think about the conservative sites that say 10 percent is too high? I've visited many and they often say the 10 percent thing is made up by the gay community in order to obtain more recognition, etc. I've seen some sites that claim it's really only about 1-3 percent. Just based on the gay people I've met, I would say that can't be accurate, and I'm in a place where coming out of the closet is, in some cases, comparable to signing your death warrant. Also, I read Eric Marcus' Is It a Choice?, and he thought the 10 percent was very inaccurate as well. (And he's a gay guy--it's a pro-gay book designed to dispel myths). However, he doesn't claim to have scientific evidence or be an expert. But, from what he's seen, he thinks it's about 4 to 5 percent. That is discouraging to me when I think of finding someone to be with! But, as Jason already pointed out, it's really difficult to do an accurate study on this because there are so many people out there who will never admit that they are gay or bi.


Well, take my high school graduating class....out of 40 boys, 4 of us are gay. 10% baby. :lol:

But you and J are right....it is hard to be accurate....10% is just a guess-timate.

[dissention]

Well, take my high school graduating class....out of 40 boys, 4 of us are gay. 10% baby. :lol:

But you and J are right....it is hard to be accurate....10% is just a guess-timate.

Ha! The four that you know about. ;) :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Ha! The four that you know about. ;) :laugh:


:lol:

I was just pointing out the minimum percentage possible. :]

[dissention]

:lol:

I was just pointing out the minimum percentage possible. :]

I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.

[amber]

I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.
Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I have always believed (and will continue to believe) that there are no such things as homosexuality and heterosexuality. As Jason said on the other page, we're sexual by nature. Show me a "straight" person who has never had sexual feelings for a member of their own sex and I will sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Sexual feelings of all sorts are natural, they don't need to be connotated as good or bad because of trivial things like religion and what society sees as the norm. If it feels good and it ain't illegal, have fun.


I honestly believe this. Friends think I am crazy that I say that I don't believe in sexual boundaries. I am "gay" because I do perfer men over women....my sexual drive is towards men. However, if I was attracted to a women, I'd go for it. I don't give up opportunities that could arise because I am gay. I guess I have been sucked into society's view of myself.

[dissention]

Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:

I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.

[GateandGarden]

Actually, I think there are people who have never really had a sexual feeling towards their same sex. :shrug:I agree. Honestly, I've never been into the idea of actually having sex with the opposite sex. And believe me, I tried to get into that idea. So hard. But I'm sure everyone can look at any human being and admire his or her beauty, easily. I'm not sure that any of us can jump into the bed with anyone so easily. And what about the minority of the population that is asexual?

EDIT: Oh, sorry. You already addressed the asexuals.

[GateandGarden]

I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.I promise I'm not lying to y'all. :laugh: I guess it depends on what you mean by "sexual feeling." I can look at Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert and think they're sexy, but I can't imagine ever actually doing anything with them. :shrug:

[dissention]

I honestly believe this. Friends think I am crazy that I say that I don't believe in sexual boundaries. I am "gay" because I do perfer men over women....my sexual drive is towards men. However, if I was attracted to a women, I'd go for it. I don't give up opportunities that could arise because I am gay. I guess I have been sucked into society's view of myself.

Exactly. I've been attracted to men, but not on the same level as I am towards women. Until recently, I never attempted to have any type of relationship with another man, but I'm not going to say 'You can't do this, pick one or the other.' If I feel a certain way, that's how I feel. No one has to be categorized as being this or that because it's the kind of thing that cannot be categorized.

[GateandGarden]

Exactly. I've been attracted to men, but not on the same level as I am towards women. Until recently, I never attempted to have any type of relationship with another man, but I'm not going to say 'You can't do this, pick one or the other.' If I feel a certain way, that's how I feel. No one has to be categorized as being this or that because it's the kind of thing that cannot be categorized.That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o

[ontheEdgeof17]

That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o


I don't see it happening for me anytime soon....but the option is always there.....until I find the "one".

[dissention]

I promise I'm not lying to y'all. :laugh: I guess it depends on what you mean by "sexual feeling." I can look at Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert and think they're sexy, but I can't imagine ever actually doing anything with them. :shrug:

Finding someone sexy is a sexual feeling, how could it not be? If they didn't turn you on to some degree, you wouldn't find them sexy.

[GateandGarden]

Finding someone sexy is a sexual feeling, how could it not be? If they didn't turn you on to some degree, you wouldn't find them sexy.Okay, yeah, I see what you mean. But, most of the time, when someone has a "sexual feeling," don't they have the inclination to act on it if that's at all possible?

[dissention]

That's cool for you and Curtis. I believe y'all. (Why wouldn't I?) I think a whole lot of people are that way, actually. But what about me? I just don't see that in myself at all. :shrug:

Remember that this is all coming from a virgin. :o

Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)

[amber]

I don't (unless they're completely asexual). Anyone who says that they haven't is lying is through their teeth, IMO.
How can you presume that? And just because someone really likes someone that is the gender that they don't usually sleep with, doesn't mean that those feelings necessarily translate into sexual feelings. Hell, I've slept with a girl, but I don't really actively desire to sleep with a girl. And I don't think you can presume everyone who says that is "lying". I've known people who have no qualms with any kind of sexual boundaries, but still say things like "well, there is no reason I wouldn't do it, I've just never had the desire to do it" :wavey:

[amber]

Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)
Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Just because you haven't or have no desire to sleep with a man, it doesn't mean that you don't have any sexual feelings for them. That kind of thinking is part of the problem with society and how it categorizes a "sexual feeling" as being one that means you want to jump into the sack with someone. I don't know how you define them, but that's not how I define them. :)I suppose society has f*cked me up in that realm, as it has in others. I think it's a conclusion many jump to. I think if I tell some of my friends that I think one of our professors is sexy, some would most likely say, "So you would have sex with her? Gross!" I suppose I'm not looking at it the right way. The way you worded it, though, makes me think that, yes, everyone has had those feelings for the opposite and same sex at least once. I think some things like that go through our minds and we don't even realize it. I even think Crow on "Mystery Science Theater 3000" was kind of sexy, and he was a, uh, robot. :laugh:

[dissention]

How can you presume that? And just because someone really likes someone that is the gender that they don't usually sleep with, doesn't mean that those feelings necessarily translate into sexual feelings. Hell, I've slept with a girl, but I don't really actively desire to sleep with a girl. And I don't think you can presume everyone who says that is "lying". I've known people who have no qualms with any kind of sexual boundaries, but still say things like "well, there is no reason I wouldn't do it, I've just never had the desire to do it" :wavey:

So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:I may be thoroughly confused here, but I think that contradicts what diss said. :shrug: :sorry:

[strandinthewind]

So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.

I call it being horny :shrug:

[dissention]

Yeah, I don't call it a sexual feeling if you don't have some kind of desire to share sex with them. I call it "love" or "intense like" or "good friendship" or something. :shrug:

By that line of thinking, we can say that things like clothing and scents aren't sexy. If it turns you on in the least, it's a sexual feeling in my eyes. But we're all different in that realm, I suppose.

[dissention]

I call it being horny :shrug:

And horniness is a sexual feeling.

[amber]

So, you've slept with a girl, but because you you don't actively desire to sleep with them, that translates into you never having had sexual feelings for one? :confused:

Everyone has some sort of sexual feeling regarding both sexes, it's human nature and I'll believe it until I die.
I guess i wouldn't call it a sexual feeling, if you don't want to have sex with them. And if you do want to have sex with them, then i call it a sexual feeling. And I think that some people may not have ever had a sexual feeling for their same sex. And i would never keep it so black and white as to say that it is outside the realm of possibility that not everyone on the planet has bisexual feelings. Obviously, I think most people do. But i would never say everyone does, and if they don't admit it, that they're in denial. :D

[GateandGarden]

By that line of thinking, we can say that things like clothing and scents aren't sexy. If it turns you on in the least, it's a sexual feeling in my eyes. But we're all different in that realm, I suppose.I think that's a good point. I think certain scents, clothes, etc. are sexy, but I don't want to have sex with them, so I agree with you there. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

And horniness is a sexual feeling.


is that a line from a Marvin Gaye song :laugh:

My point was people get horny. I think if they get horny enough and are tired of masturbation and they are stuck on an island with another person of the same sex, it is gonna happen :eek: :laugh:

esp. if they ferment the coconut milk :D

[amber]

By that line of thinking, we can say that things like clothing and scents aren't sexy. If it turns you on in the least, it's a sexual feeling in my eyes. But we're all different in that realm, I suppose.
Right, and I was talking about things that don't turn someone on, but that they may still really like. I can really like clothing and scents, without it being a sexual feeling.

[GateandGarden]

I guess i wouldn't call it a sexual feeling, if you don't want to have sex with them. And if you do want to have sex with them, then i call it a sexual feeling. And I think that some people may not have ever had a sexual feeling for their same sex. And i would never keep it so black and white as to say that it is outside the realm of possibility that not everyone on the planet has bisexual feelings. Obviously, I think most people do. But i would never say everyone does, and if they don't admit it, that they're in denial. :DI see what you're saying. By your definition of a sexual feeling (not dissention's) it is really presumptuous to say that everyone is capable of feeling that way for both sexes. So, yeah, I agree with you.

[amber]

I may be thoroughly confused here, but I think that contradicts what diss said. :shrug: :sorry:
Yes, dear, it did contradict him. I have been since i started this discussion. :wavey:

[dissention]

is that a line from a Marvin Gaye song :laugh:

My point was people get horny. I think if they get horny enough and are tired of masturbation and they are stuck on an island with another person of the same sex, it is gonna happen :eek: :laugh:

Yes, dear, but 99% of the population are not sick and tired of masturbation while being stuck on a desert island with only a member of the same sex. Let's be a bit more realistic. ;)

[ontheEdgeof17]

is that a line from a Marvin Gaye song :laugh:

My point was people get horny. I think if they get horny enough and are tired of masturbation and they are stuck on an island with another person of the same sex, it is gonna happen :eek: :laugh:

esp. if they ferment the coconut milk :D


MY DREAM! :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

Yes, dear, it did contradict him. I have been since i started this discussion. :wavey:It took me a minute to sort the whole thing out. :laugh: I thought you were saying it like you were agreeing with him, but then what you were saying was kind of the opposite of what he said. But then I figured it out. Nevermind. Ignore the dumb blonde. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

Yes, dear, but 99% of the population are not sick and tired of masturbation while being stuck on a desert island with only a member of the same sex. Let's be a bit more realistic. ;)Yeah, I was thinkin' Gee, I would hope that if I was stuck on desert island with Dubya, I wouldn't do the deed with him. It can't possibly be that important! :eek:

:laugh:

[dissention]

Right, and I was talking about things that don't turn someone on, but that they may still really like. I can really like clothing and scents, without it being a sexual feeling.

And that makes no sense to me, unfortunately. :woohoo:

How can something you "really like" not turn you on to some degree? If you enjoy your participation in a sexual act, you're turned on. If you have feelings of being attracted to someone but don't necessarily want to jump their bones, you're experiencing a sexual feeling.

[strandinthewind]

Yes, dear, but 99% of the population are not sick and tired of masturbation while being stuck on a desert island with only a member of the same sex. Let's be a bit more realistic. ;)

I have felt that way :laugh:

I know that silly - I was just using hyperbole to demonstrate that if people release their IMO manmade inhibitions - they will realize that sex is sex and it can be fun no matter what it is. I think this whole "I could NEVER do it with another woman" or vice vera thing is a social handcuff. I am not talking about what people are attracted to in general, what they fall in love with, etc. I am just saying that the act of sex is biological and getting off is getting off. I mean look at masterbation - that is not really natural in the scheme of propagation of the species - neither is oral sex or any other kind of erotic stimulation. Technically, nature wants the male to ejaculate in the female as often as possible. Everything else is just fun :cool:

[strandinthewind]

MY DREAM! :wavey:

with me :cool: or in general :(

:wavey: :wavey:

[dissention]

I have felt that way :laugh:

I know that silly - I was just using hyperbole to demonstrate that if people release their IMO manmade inhibitions - they will realize that sex is sex and it can be fun no matter what it is. I think this whole "I could NEVER do it with another woman" or vice vera thing is a social handcuff. I am not talking about what people are attracted to in general, what they fall in love with, etc. I am just saying that the act of sex is biological and getting off is getting off. I mean look at masterbation - that is not really natural in the scheme of propagation of the species - neither is oral sex or any other kind of erotic stimulation. Technically, nature wants the male to ejaculate in the female as often as possible. Everything else is just fun :cool:

And I agree, that's essentially what I said earlier in this thread. :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

with me :cool: or in general :(

:wavey: :wavey:


:o

Both?

[amber]

And that makes no sense to me, unfortunately. :woohoo:

How can something you "really like" not turn you on to some degree? If you enjoy your participation in a sexual act, you're turned on. If you have feelings of being attracted to someone but don't necessarily want to jump their bones, you're experiencing a sexual feeling.
Because I just like things separate from being turned on by them. I love my best friends, I love ranch dressing, I love hamburgers, but i'm not turned on by any of those things to a degree that it becomes a sexual feeling. Ie, I do not want to have sex when i am enjoying a tasty hamburger. I don't know why you don't understand that. Otherwise, I would want to have sex constantly, with millions of things i see and hear that I enjoy. But, I just don't. And I'm sure you know lots of people that you like, but you don't want to have sex with them. :confused:

[GateandGarden]

I am not talking about what people are attracted to in general, what they fall in love with, etc.So, since you brought that up, would y'all say it's fair or unfair to say that many people are capable of falling in love with anyone, regardless of sex or gender? I wouldn't venture to say everyone, but it occurred to me that it may be possible for more people than they are willing to admit. (Does that make sense? :confused: Oh well).

[strandinthewind]

And I agree, that's essentially what I said earlier in this thread. :laugh:

well as usual, I have to start giving examples and arguing over the minutia (sp.?) - it is the lawyer in me :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

:o

Both?

well now I am blushing :xoxo:

[ontheEdgeof17]

So, since you brought that up, would y'all say it's fair or unfair to say that many people are capable of falling in love with anyone, regardless of sex or gender? I wouldn't venture to say everyone, but it occurred to me that it may be possible for more people than they are willing to admit. (Does that make sense? :confused: Oh well).


Is Anne Heche a bad example here? :lol:

[dissention]

Because I just like things separate from being turned on by them. I love my best friends, I love ranch dressing, I love hamburgers, but i'm not turned on by any of those things to a degree that it becomes a sexual feeling. Ie, I do not want to have sex when i am enjoying a tasty hamburger. I don't know why you don't understand that. Otherwise, I would want to have sex constantly, with millions of things i see and hear that I enjoy. But, I just don't. And I'm sure you know lots of people that you like, but you don't want to have sex with them. :confused:

You're being absurd now. I'm talking about sexual feelings regarding members of the same and opposite sexes, I don't understand how you don't get that. Not ranch dressing and hamburgers. I don't imagine that many people feel the need to lather themselves in ranch and thrust away at a slab of meat.

[GateandGarden]

Because I just like things separate from being turned on by them. I love my best friends, I love ranch dressing, I love hamburgers, but i'm not turned on by any of those things to a degree that it becomes a sexual feeling. Ie, I do not want to have sex when i am enjoying a tasty hamburger. I don't know why you don't understand that. Otherwise, I would want to have sex constantly, with millions of things i see and hear that I enjoy. But, I just don't. And I'm sure you know lots of people that you like, but you don't want to have sex with them. :confused:I don't think that's what he meant. (Don't mean to put words in his mouth, though :o ). You can enjoy tasty foods, but they don't turn you on, or you don't find them sexy. There's room for both platonic and sexual feelings for objects and such, right? OMG, I really need to stop because I don't think I'm making a bit of sense. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

You're being absurd now. I'm talking about sexual feelings regarding members of the same and opposite sexes, I don't understand how you don't get that. Not ranch dressing and hamburgers. I don't imagine that many people feel the need to lather themselves in ranch and thrust away at a slab of meat.I think she said that because you mentioned finding clothes and scents sexy, as well as people. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

So, since you brought that up, would y'all say it's fair or unfair to say that many people are capable of falling in love with anyone, regardless of sex or gender? I wouldn't venture to say everyone, but it occurred to me that it may be possible for more people than they are willing to admit. (Does that make sense? :confused: Oh well).

well, love exists in many forms. I mean there is the animal lust part of it, which fades with time. I think many couples in their twilight years are not really sexual yet they still love each other. Then there is the example of a person in a coma - yet their partner stays with them without sex. I know these are not really accurate because the sex probably was once there, but it does show love can exist without it to some degree. So. yes, I think it is possible, but I think it is rare, esp. considering society's taboos.

[amber]

I have felt that way :laugh:

I know that silly - I was just using hyperbole to demonstrate that if people release their IMO manmade inhibitions - they will realize that sex is sex and it can be fun no matter what it is. I think this whole "I could NEVER do it with another woman" or vice vera thing is a social handcuff. I am not talking about what people are attracted to in general, what they fall in love with, etc. I am just saying that the act of sex is biological and getting off is getting off. I mean look at masterbation - that is not really natural in the scheme of propagation of the species - neither is oral sex or any other kind of erotic stimulation. Technically, nature wants the male to ejaculate in the female as often as possible. Everything else is just fun :cool:
That may be true, but I don't think sex is always sex, and that getting off, etc., can be a satisfying end in itself, usually. I would many, many times rather do something else entirely than have sex with someone i feel no desire for just to get off. Because, well, I have no desire to. I'm not going to do it just because i can. I'm sure men feel differently, but to me things aren't really as sexy unless i actually feel sexually attracted to that person. :shrug:

[Serrart]

And that makes no sense to me, unfortunately. :woohoo:

How can something you "really like" not turn you on to some degree? If you enjoy your participation in a sexual act, you're turned on. If you have feelings of being attracted to someone but don't necessarily want to jump their bones, you're experiencing a sexual feeling.

Freud would have loved you. Haven't you ever got a spiritual connection with anyone? Feel that a certain person is part of what you are or feel but it's far away from sex, because it goes deeper?

Romy

[strandinthewind]

Is Anne Heche a bad example here? :lol:

CELESTIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bless her heart :laugh:

[dissention]

I think she said that because you mentioned finding clothes and scents sexy, as well as people. :shrug:

Yes, but she seems to be assuming that I believe ALL people find clothes and scents sexy, when that's not what I was saying at all. It's a rather silly thing to harp on in the context of this discussion, though. My point, and the only one I've tried to make all along, is that everyone has sexual feelings for both sexes.

[amber]

You're being absurd now. I'm talking about sexual feelings regarding members of the same and opposite sexes, I don't understand how you don't get that. Not ranch dressing and hamburgers. I don't imagine that many people feel the need to lather themselves in ranch and thrust away at a slab of meat.
Well, you were saying how you don't understand that if I like something, that isn't a sexual feeling. And i was trying to illustrate that it is veery possible, that i like A LOT OF people, things, that i have no sexual desire for. :confused: And that i think it's possible that not everyone on the planet has sexual feelings for who they don't normally sleep with. :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

Freud would have loved you. Haven't you ever got a spiritual connection with anyone? Feel that a certain person is part of what you are or feel but it's far away from sex, because it goes deeper?

RomyI didn't think there were implications that diss wasn't capable of that or hadn't felt that. :shrug: I understand what you're saying, though. Too much emphasis on sexual things in general, I suppose. (That last part isn't directed at you, diss. I just realized that it might read that way. Sorry).

[dissention]

Well, you were saying how you don't understand that if I like something, that isn't a sexual feeling.

That's not what I was saying at all, dear. ;) :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Well, you were saying how you don't understand that if I like something, that isn't a sexual feeling.I didn't think he was saying that everything you've liked or felt drawn to constituted feeling sexual, just some things, and that didn't necessarily mean you wanted to do something sexual with him/her/it. But, this is all marred by the fact that you and diss have different definitions of "sexual feeling."

[amber]

Yes, but she seems to be assuming that I believe ALL people find clothes and scents sexy, when that's not what I was saying at all. It's a rather silly thing to harp on in the context of this discussion, though. My point, and the only one I've tried to make all along, is that everyone has sexual feelings for both sexes.
My point is, it is stupid for you to say that everyone is anything. :cool:

[dissention]

And that i think it's possible that not everyone on the planet has sexual feelings for who they don't normally sleep with. :wavey:

You may believe that and you're entitled to, but I think it's a load of ****. Just as you think my opinion on the subject is. :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Mommy...Daddy....please stop fighting.

[strandinthewind]

That may be true, but I don't think sex is always sex, and that getting off, etc., can be a satisfying end in itself, usually. I would many, many times rather do something else entirely than have sex with someone i feel no desire for just to get off. Because, well, I have no desire to. I'm not going to do it just because i can. I'm sure men feel differently, but to me things aren't really as sexy unless i actually feel sexually attracted to that person. :shrug:

I am not talking about that. I am talking about the biological need to emit to preserve the species. Nature made it feel good and made us have a sex drive via hormones so we would want to do it. I think nature made males via testoserone and all relevant other hormones tend to have higher sex drives, but females have them as well, e.g. a cat in heat will stick it through a chain link fence so the male can copulate. Thus, I think humans are lucky because we know enough to know that this natural pleasure can be used other than its sole natural function which is to continue the species.

[wondergirl9847]

How can something you "really like" not turn you on to some degree?

I really like chocolate...does that make me a Chocosexual? :confused:

:lol:

[DrummerDeanna]

So, since you brought that up, would y'all say it's fair or unfair to say that many people are capable of falling in love with anyone, regardless of sex or gender? I wouldn't venture to say everyone, but it occurred to me that it may be possible for more people than they are willing to admit. (Does that make sense? :confused: Oh well).

I know I have been in love with both a man and a women - the experiences were different (duh haha) but both were love and both were amazing experiences that I would never trade for anything (even though the girl ripped my heart out, showed it to me, chewed it up, let her dog chew it up, stepped on it etc...I'm not bitter or anything :p)

[GateandGarden]

Mommy...Daddy....please stop fighting.:lol::lol:

[dissention]

My point is, it is stupid for you to say that everyone is anything. :cool:

Just as it's stupid for you to discount human nature when it comes to sexuality.

[strandinthewind]

I really like chocolate...does that make me a Chocosexual? :confused:

:lol:

MEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

In fact , there was that time in Panama when I shared this hotel room and had some melted chocolate . . . :eek:

JUST JOKING :] :] :]

[dissention]

I didn't think he was saying that everything you've liked or felt drawn to constituted feeling sexual, just some things, and that didn't necessarily mean you wanted to do something sexual with him/her/it. But, this is all marred by the fact that you and diss have different definitions of "sexual feeling."

Exactly. :xoxo: :woohoo:

[GateandGarden]

How can something you "really like" not turn you on to some degree?I think the way you worded that threw people, diss. It implied that whenever you really like something, it's a sexual thing, when I don't think you were trying to say that.

[amber]

That's not what I was saying at all, dear. ;) :xoxo:
whatever, you did intimate that, you said "well, if you are attracted to something, then that is a sexual feeling" or something similar. And I think GateandGarden is right, I think our definitions of "sexual feelings" are different. :) so, really, it's pointless now. Except for the lame fact that now i know you actually believe that everyone on the entire planet , without any single exception, ever, has certain feelings. Oh, well. :)

[GateandGarden]

MEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

In fact , there was that time in Panama when I shared this hotel room and had some melted chocolate . . . :eek:

JUST JOKING :] :] :]:lol::laugh::lol:

[dissention]

I think the way you worded that threw people, diss. It implied that whenever you really like something, it's a sexual thing, when I don't think you were trying to say that.

Well, christ, that's the kind of interpretation I'd expect Brown Eyes to have, not Amber. :laugh:

[amber]

Just as it's stupid for you to discount human nature when it comes to sexuality.
I didn't, and i think you know that. In fact i said, I think most people are, but that it is foolish to say everyone is. :rolleyes: Sheesh. I'm gonna smack you when i see you! :lol: (and you're gonna like it!)

[amber]

Well, christ, that's the kind of interpretation I'd expect Brown Eyes to have, not Amber. :laugh:
read that back again, and you'll see why. If you did not mean what those words said, literally, than it was very poorly worded. As were several other things you said.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Sheesh. I'm gonna smack you when i see you! :lol: (and you're gonna like it!)


I'll be there to see that one!

[GateandGarden]

Sheesh. I'm gonna smack you when i see you! :lol: (and you're gonna like it!):lol::lol::lol: OMG, y'all are crackin' me up this afternoon.

[dissention]

read that back again, and you'll see why. If you did not mean what those words said, literally, than it was very poorly worded. As were several other things you said.

Ouch. :rolleyes: I highly doubt that you're the one who should be lecturing others on the wording of their posts.

[GateandGarden]

Ouch. :rolleyes: I highly doubt that you're the one who should be lecturing others on the wording of their posts.You meanie. :mad: :xoxo: Really, I don't think any of us are perfect at that. But I have to agree that some things you posted in this thread weren't worded effectively. :shrug: Don't take offense at that.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I'm gonna smack you when i see you! :lol: (and you're gonna like it!)

which, as humans, we have found is a sexual way of gratification for some if not most (who does not evey now and then like a little swat during the deed :laugh: ) and that is not in any way related to the preservation of the species. Thus, my point :wavey:

[amber]

I am not talking about that. I am talking about the biological need to emit to preserve the species. Nature made it feel good and made us have a sex drive via hormones so we would want to do it. I think nature made males via testoserone and all relevant other hormones tend to have higher sex drives, but females have them as well, e.g. a cat in heat will stick it through a chain link fence so the male can copulate. Thus, I think humans are lucky because we know enough to know that this natural pleasure can be used other than its sole natural function which is to continue the species.
sorry, I guess when i read that, that point was a little "buried" in the rest, to me. really, your words were a little different before. :D

[strandinthewind]

sorry, I guess when i read that, that point was a little "buried" in the rest, to me. really, your words were a little different before. :D


well, I do not think so - but now ya know what I mean!!!! :cool:

[amber]

which, as humans, we have found is a sexual way of gratification for some if not most (who does not evey now and then like a little swat during the deed :laugh: ) and that is not in any way related to the preservation of the species. Thus, my point :wavey:
yeah, but you seemed to imply that everyone will be ok with any way of sexual gratification, at any possible point. At least, somewhat. I just don't agree. :shrug:

[sparky]

I mean look at masterbation - that is not really natural in the scheme of propagation of the species - neither is oral sex or any other kind of erotic stimulation. Technically, nature wants the male to ejaculate in the female as often as possible. Everything else is just fun :cool:

It may not be nature for some. Obviously, the biological imperative drives most sexual desire. Doesn't drive mine. I think homosexual desire comes from somewhere else and it is something that can never be fully explained. The idea that all sexual behavior is biologically based and directed towards propogation was the basis for the school of thought that homosexuals were "inverts" and somehow short circuited in their desire. Kind of makes me twitch. Frankly, the fact that there is no biological basis for my desire has made it less simple to codify and understand. It just doesn't fit into any model I have ever seen. It is nice to have the freedom to define things, but difficult to do it without a map.

I think the 10% thing is off. If you want to talk about people who are "out", I think it closer to 4%. Although in my experience, I would say about 10-15% of men sometimes play around. Lately, I have been a magnet for bi-guys and "straight" guys. The city seems to be crawling with them...There is a LOT of that going on. But, most of those guys will never have emotional relationships with men. It's just sex to them. The guys will be on the side.

[amber]

Ouch. :rolleyes: I highly doubt that you're the one who should be lecturing others on the wording of their posts.
In this case i feel justified. And, besides, I've seen you use circular logic and switch your point before, and also I've seen you deny what you said, or deny the obvious meaning of what you said, to slip out of something, or "win" some argument. Think what you want, I read very well. ;)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: - and you can take your rolly eyes and stuff them. :D

[strandinthewind]

yeah, but you seemed to imply that everyone will be ok with any way of sexual gratification, at any possible point. At least, somewhat. I just don't agree. :shrug:

Well, we, esp. men, are designed to be okay with the act of sex. I mean we have evolved past hitting the girl over the head with the club, but the basic drive is still there. Unless they have some biological error, humans are made to be sexual. I do not think I ever said everyone likes everything esp. when given options and when society declares some as taboo :shrug: I think if the options are reduced, the taboos tend to go out the door :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

It may not be nature for some. Obviously, the biological imperative drives most sexual desire. Doesn't drive mine. I think homosexual desire comes from somewhere else and it is something that can never be fully explained. The idea that all sexual behavior is biologically based and directed towards propogation was the basis for the school of thought that homosexuals were "inverts" and somehow short circuited in their desire. Kind of makes me twitch. Frankly, the fact that there is no biological basis for my desire has made it less simple to codify and understand. It just doesn't fit into any model I have ever seen. It is nice to have the freedom to define things, but difficult to do it without a map.

I think the 10% thing is off. If you want to talk about people who are "out", I think it closer to 4%. Although in my experience, I would say about 10-15% of men sometimes play around. Lately, I have been a magnet for bi-guys and "straight" guys. The city seems to be crawling with them...There is a LOT of that going on. But, most of those guys will never have emotional relationships with men. It's just sex to them. The guys will be on the side.

Its nice to know I can make you twitch ;) :xoxo: :wavey: :D

I think specific sexual desire can come from anywhere. But the biological act of sex (the erection, the ejaculation, etc.) comes from hormones and we all have them and they are not limited in any way to preservation of the species though that is their specific design intent. I think that made sense :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

I'll be there to see that one!

Right on! I really think he's gonna like it. :D :laugh:

Curtis, you have the best one liners which very often make me smile. :) :xoxo:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Curtis, you have the best one liners which very often make me smile. :) :xoxo:


Well, thank ya! They are rather dumb, though.

[SuzeQuze]

Well, thank ya! They are rather dumb, though.

Dammit, they are not, they're often clever. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that because I have often thought it.

On this topic, I have definitely had sexual desire for the same sex but not recently, much more when I was younger. Maybe I short circuited that? Or maybe in my case my "identity" took longer to emerge. Or maybe I was too afraid of boys to really let myself like them. :shrug:

I think everyone has had a sexual response to someone of the same sex. I don't necessarily think this is a "feeling" though so much as a biological reflex. Feelings are a bit more complex and, more than likely, some people have never had sexual feelings for the same sex. However, I bet those people are rare. I hope I am making sense to y'all.

[strandinthewind]

Dammit, they are not, they're often clever. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that because I have often thought it.

On this topic, I have definitely had sexual desire for the same sex but not recently, much more when I was younger. Maybe I short circuited that? Or maybe in my case my "identity" took longer to emerge. Or maybe I was too afraid of boys to really let myself like them. :shrug:

I think everyone has had a sexual response to someone of the same sex. I don't necessarily think this is a "feeling" though so much as a biological reflex. Feelings are a bit more complex and, more than likely, some people have never had sexual feelings for the same sex. However, I bet those people are rare. I hope I am making sense to y'all.


I agree - I mean look at when people get all liquored up and rub on people of the same sex. I think it is inside all of us to have sexual desire outside of the norm (which is to preserve the species) - I mean that example is good in that people for the most part are uninhibited when drunk. I find the whole concept of pigeonholed sexuality archaic.

[amber]

I agree - I mean look at when people get all liquored up and rub on people of the same sex. I think it is inside all of us to have sexual desire outside of the norm (which is to preserve the species) - I mean that example is good in that people for the most part are uninhibited when drunk. I find the whole concept of pigeonholed sexuality archaic.
Me, too - Including the pidgeon hole of everyone doing something.

[strandinthewind]

Me, too - Including the pidgeon hole of everyone doing something.

you are totally missing my argument :cool: but if you do not get it now - ya never will :laugh: :cool:

[amber]

you are totally missing my argument :cool: but if you do not get it now - ya never will :laugh: :cool:
Uh, I think I was agreeing with you and adding my own thought. I think the pidgeonholing of sexuality is archaic, too. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Uh, I think I was agreeing with you and adding my own thought. I think the pidgeonholing of sexuality is archaic, too. :shrug:

I think you think I am saying something other than we are all wired to like having sex and given the right situation, everyone (save medical anamolies) will have it with whatever is available. I am not taking about love, hetero or homosexualituy, or anything like that. I am talking about basic human need, which our DNA gives everyone. But, if you are not, then :sorry:

[amber]

I think you think I am saying something other than we are all wired to like having sex and given the right situation, everyone (save medical anamolies) will have it with whatever is available. I am not taking about love, hetero or homosexualituy, or anything like that. I am talking about basic human need, which our DNA gives everyone. But, if you are not, then :sorry:
I Understand that. I'm not sure I agree with your use of the word everyone, though. But you seem to be talking about it in a very broad, unspecific way, which I assume includes just "having it" with yourself, so - and i'm not sure exactly how far I would extend that "whatever is available" thing. :laugh:
Also, just for the record, this: I agree - I mean look at when people get all liquored up and rub on people of the same sex. I think it is inside all of us to have sexual desire outside of the norm (which is to preserve the species) - I mean that example is good in that people for the most part are uninhibited when drunk. I find the whole concept of pigeonholed sexuality archaic.
highlights different things than what you said in the first quote. :wavey:

[dissention]

You meanie. :mad: :xoxo: Really, I don't think any of us are perfect at that. But I have to agree that some things you posted in this thread weren't worded effectively. :shrug: Don't take offense at that.

I don't. What may seem logical in my head doesn't always translate well in the written word, but those are the pitfalls of message boards. ;)

[Miss Vicky]

I think that the 10% figure is extremely innaccurate.
I wasn't exactly popular in my high school and didn't know very many people, but of the those that I was at least acquainted with 17 of them were either homosexual, bisexual or had acknowledged that they had "experimented" with the same sex or had the desire to do so (or at least 17 that I can think of off the top of my head). There are a few others that I believe to be gay, but they have not yet come out.
There is a lot of doubt as to whether or not those people ever will. I read someone mention the stigma surrounding homosexuals in the latino community, but from what I've seen its just as strong if not more so in the black community and other ethnicities as well. One of the gay boys that I knew in high school was half black. He was about as out and proud as they come. He endured taunts, beatings, and general abuse by the black boys on campus and consequently hated black people. Another boy who was Japanese faced near total rejection from his traditionalist father. And a third boy, who was white, endured many beatings as well. I live in California - a state that is known for being rather liberally minded - and still these things happened.
As for my own experience, I was out amoung my peers but have never bothered to speak to my family about my bisexuality because there has yet to be a need for it. I have never been in a relationship with a woman. Because I have never been involved in a relationship with a woman, even my own friends have questioned whether or not I am truly bi, saying things like "How can you know for sure if you've never had sex with a woman?" It was as if some of them just didn't want to believe it. As it stands now, I've never had sex with a man either (I have not been in a relationship long enough to get to that point), yet if I were to tell someone that I am straight, that statement would not be questioned.
As for what I think my parents would say if and when the situation arrises, I don't know for sure. They both consider themselves to be more liberally minded and are in favor of allowing gays to marry. However, I recently made mention of a bisexual friend of mine and without even listening to what I had to say about her, my mother exclaimed "Don't you have any normal friends?" Since when is bisexuality not normal?
In any case, with the continuance of the religious zealots, the cultural traditionalists, the homophobs, and the plain ignorance surrounding homosexuality and bisexuality, there will always be those who choose to keep silent about their true selves out of fear or the resulting sense of shame or denial. Therefore no accurate census can ever be taken.