Sounds like CENSORSHIP to me

[estranged4life]

LAMB OF GOD is being forced to step aside from one of their arena concerts on the upcoming Subliminal Verses Tour with SLIPKNOT, because of their name Lamb Of God and former moniker BURN THE PRIEST.

The venue, The Forum in Los Angeles, is owned by The Faithful Central Bible Church who decided to impose a ruling to ban Lamb Of God's performance at their venue.

Lamb of God have come off of several extremely successful headline runs through L.A. in the last year, so this move comes completely unexpected for the band and the tour as a whole. Los Angeles is and has always been a huge market for the band, building steadily with each one of their releases and tours as well as and exploding with the bands current CD, Ashes Of The Wake.

In deciding to ban Lamb Of God's performance, The Faithful Central Bible Church are imposing on the publics freedom of speech, choice and assembly; the bands art along with the bands ability to conduct commerce.

Drummer Chris Adler clearly states, "The "situation" in L.A. can only be described as ridiculous. It's already been a huge waste of energy trying to turn this around. The powers that be aren't interested budging - or doing their research apparently - and we've never been a band to placate anyone to get our way, smooth things over or make anyone feel better. They have made it clear that they don't want us because of our name, our show and our crowd - because of that ignorance, Lamb Of God is not being permitted to appear on the Subliminal Verses Concert in L.A. It's truly a shame for the show overall, especially for our friends and fans in L.A. that are being forced to miss our part of the show. Trust that this was not our decision, we'd love to kick some ass in L.A., but apparently the word from the powers that be is that Lamb Of God is not the wholesome family fun that the good people of Los Angeles deserve."

As previously reported, Lamb Of God’s official website (www.lamb-of-god.com) was recently updated with more West Coast and Midwest US dates for their upcoming tour. Most dates also feature SLIPKNOT, SHADOWS FALL and support.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

LAMB OF GOD is being forced to step aside from one of their arena concerts on the upcoming Subliminal Verses Tour with SLIPKNOT, because of their name Lamb Of God and former moniker BURN THE PRIEST.

The venue, The Forum in Los Angeles, is owned by The Faithful Central Bible Church who decided to impose a ruling to ban Lamb Of God's performance at their venue.

Lamb of God have come off of several extremely successful headline runs through L.A. in the last year, so this move comes completely unexpected for the band and the tour as a whole. Los Angeles is and has always been a huge market for the band, building steadily with each one of their releases and tours as well as and exploding with the bands current CD, Ashes Of The Wake.

In deciding to ban Lamb Of God's performance, The Faithful Central Bible Church are imposing on the publics freedom of speech, choice and assembly; the bands art along with the bands ability to conduct commerce.

Drummer Chris Adler clearly states, "The "situation" in L.A. can only be described as ridiculous. It's already been a huge waste of energy trying to turn this around. The powers that be aren't interested budging - or doing their research apparently - and we've never been a band to placate anyone to get our way, smooth things over or make anyone feel better. They have made it clear that they don't want us because of our name, our show and our crowd - because of that ignorance, Lamb Of God is not being permitted to appear on the Subliminal Verses Concert in L.A. It's truly a shame for the show overall, especially for our friends and fans in L.A. that are being forced to miss our part of the show. Trust that this was not our decision, we'd love to kick some ass in L.A., but apparently the word from the powers that be is that Lamb Of God is not the wholesome family fun that the good people of Los Angeles deserve."

As previously reported, Lamb Of God’s official website (www.lamb-of-god.com) was recently updated with more West Coast and Midwest US dates for their upcoming tour. Most dates also feature SLIPKNOT, SHADOWS FALL and support.

But since it is owned by them, isn't it THEIR right to decide who gets to play there? They aren't taking away their freedom to say what they want to in their music or their right to perform...they can do all that...but they do get a right to say WHO can play in their own venu? no?

[SuzeQuze]

How does a Bible Church have enough money to own a venue and why do they own a venue? Technically I think they can say who plays in their venue but then it gets scary because right wing rich wackos can just buy up venues and ban acts? Of course no one in this administration will do anything to support this band. I'm so effing pissed right now. Just give me another reason. Dammmittttt!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :shocked: :distress: :(

[estranged4life]

Updating the situation, the Mercury News (www.mercurynews.com) has issued the following report from the Associated Press:

INGLEWOOD, Calif. - Call it silence of the Lamb.

The church-owned Great Western Forum has canceled an April 9 concert appearance by the heavy metal band Lamb of God because church leaders were offended by the group's previous name, Burn the Priest.

"We do owe something to our congregants. A band formerly known as Burn the Priest caused us pause. We have to draw the line somewhere," said Marc Little, general counsel for the Faithful Central Bible Church, which owns the Forum, the former home of the Los Angeles Lakers.

The band was set to appear with Grammy-nominated Slipknot as part of the Subliminal Verses Tour. In a statement on the band's Web site, drummer Chris Adler called the church's decision "a bit ridiculous."

"If they had taken the time to look into what we do and who we are as a band, I don't think they would have made the same decision," he told The Associated Press.

"They have made it clear that they do not want us because of our name, our show and our crowd," Adler said. "The word from the powers that be is that Lamb of God is not the wholesome family fun that the good people of Los Angeles deserve."

The Richmond, Va., based band took the name Lamb of God in 2000 after performing under the name Burn the Priest from 1994 to 1999. The band dumped the earlier name because it "put us into a corner we didn't want to be in," Adler said.

"So we went with something just as strange but, I guess, in the other way. So to have this kind of backlash is strange," he added.

The band has had people show up at their concerts to protest the band name. But Adler said the band has never been banned from a venue.

But in light of recent events, including the nightclub shooting of guitarist Darryl "Dimebag" Abbott, Adler said he wasn't too surprised by the action.

"I really can't believe it. But maybe it's a new day in what we are finding out will be allowed and what will be censored," he said.

Lamb of God was excited about the Forum date because metal bands do not typically play such large venues.

The band's major label debut, New American Gospel, was released in 2000. Their 2004 release, Ashes of the Wake, garnered critical buzz for its political content. The album's instrumental title track contains a sound bite of a soldier talking about the killings in Iraq.

The band intends to perform in Los Angeles and is fielding other offers.

"There are plenty of venues that will welcome us," he said. "We're looking forward to back out there and playing for the fans."

Faithful Central, which bought the Forum in 2000, is among a small but growing number of churches using sports and entertainment facilities as houses of worship.

Slipknot and other acts in the tour are still scheduled to perform.

[SuzeQuze]

Whether or not it will get them anywhere this band should file a lawsuit on principal. Or, could fans file a suit, like fans in LA who won't get to see the band because of this illegal censorship? It should be done. Even fights that appear futile need to be faught. EFFFFFEEERRRRSSSSS.....:mad:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Whether or not it will get them anywhere this band should file a lawsuit on principal. Or, could fans file a suit, like fans in LA who won't get to see the band because of this illegal censorship? It should be done. Even fights that appear futile need to be faught. EFFFFFEEERRRRSSSSS.....:mad:

HOW IS THIS censorship? If you owned a venue and Ann Coulter was scheduled to speak there and then you say...NO...WAIT. I own this building and I say, NO I will not allow it. Would that be censorship then?

The church that owns this venue are not calling for people to go out and smash CD's...they are simply saying that they don't agree with their message in their music, so therefore we don't want them playing in OUR venue. This band is free to play ANYWHERE else they would like...so HOW is that censorship?

Let's stretch that first ammendment until it bursts right?

[SuzeQuze]

HOW IS THIS censorship? If you owned a venue and Ann Coulter was scheduled to speak there and then you say...NO...WAIT. I own this building and I say, NO I will not allow it. Would that be censorship then?

The church that owns this venue are not calling for people to go out and smash CD's...they are simply saying that they don't agree with their message in their music, so therefore we don't want them playing in OUR venue. This band is free to play ANYWHERE else they would like...so HOW is that censorship?

Let's stretch that first ammendment until it bursts right?

Um, I would say "cha ching" and take the money from the jackasses who actually paid to see her and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank. :laugh:

Again, WHY DOES A CHURCH OWN A VENUE? This seems to be the real issue to me.

[DrummerDeanna]

Several years ago a Marilyn Manson concert was cancled in my town - it was a total act of censorship...the local government just didn't like Marilyn Manson....well it totally f**ked up the venue - no other good band would touch them for YEARS because of that.....

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Um, I would say "cha ching" and take the money from the jackasses who actually paid to see her and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank. :laugh:

Again, WHY DOES A CHURCH OWN A VENUE? This seems to be the real issue to me.

A church can't own a venu? Why not?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Several years ago a Marilyn Manson concert was cancled in my town - it was a total act of censorship...the local government just didn't like Marilyn Manson....well it totally f**ked up the venue - no other good band would touch them for YEARS because of that.....

Hmmm...well first off if you consider Marilyn Manson good music then... :laugh:

[estranged4life]

HOW IS THIS censorship? If you owned a venue and Ann Coulter was scheduled to speak there and then you say...NO...WAIT. I own this building and I say, NO I will not allow it. Would that be censorship then?

The church that owns this venue are not calling for people to go out and smash CD's...they are simply saying that they don't agree with their message in their music, so therefore we don't want them playing in OUR venue. This band is free to play ANYWHERE else they would like...so HOW is that censorship?

Let's stretch that first ammendment until it bursts right?

I would ALLOW ALL...Coulter, Hillbilly Clinton, etc., WITHOUT BEING CENSORED!

I just find it hypocritical that LOB gets yanked whereas Slipknot will play, When IMHO (As a metalhead) there's no difference in the bands sound just lyrically LOB is more politically charged & based.

I live DEEP IN THE HEART of the BIBLE-BELT and not one show has EVER been censored to my knowledge in my 34+ year lifetime, Not even shows by bands/artists/etc. who are openly Satanists! Hell, ORU (Oral Roberts University) in my former home of Tulsa allows rock concert's at the Maybee Center on their campus (Frank Sinatra SOLD OUT his performance their years ago...And ol' "Blue Eyes" is not exactly considered 'correct' to those who are considered religious.)

[BTFLCHLD]

i thought jerry buss still owned the forum?
maybe when when i sued their ass i put em out of business? :]

[SuzeQuze]

Several years ago a Marilyn Manson concert was cancled in my town - it was a total act of censorship...the local government just didn't like Marilyn Manson....well it totally f**ked up the venue - no other good band would touch them for YEARS because of that.....

Good, then this will likely happen to these idiots too. Let karma get them.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I would ALLOW ALL...Coulter, Hillbilly Clinton, etc., WITHOUT BEING CENSORED!

I just find it hypocritical that LOB gets yanked whereas Slipnot will played, When IMHO (As a metalhead) there's no difference in the bands sound just lyrically LOB is more politically charged & based.

I live DEEP IN THE HEART of the BIBLE-BELT and not one show has EVER been censored to my knowledge in my 34+ year lifetime, Not even shows by bands/artists/etc. who are openly Satanists! Hell, ORU (Oral Roberts University) in my former home of Tulsa allows rock concert's at the Maybee Center on their campus (Frank Sinatra SOLD OUT his performance their years ago...And ol' "Blue Eyes" is not exactly considered 'correct' to those who are considered religious.)

Well there's the thing. You havent seen censorship before, and you aren't seeing it now. Just the owners of the building decided..."I'm not to comfy with you guys playing at OUR venue."

I mean don't get me wrong you have every right to be angry because the band isn't going to play there. But I don't understand how its a censorship issue, that's all? They can still play at a different venue in the city...no?

[AliceLover]

LAMB OF GOD is being forced to step aside from one of their arena concerts on the upcoming Subliminal Verses Tour with SLIPKNOT, because of their name Lamb Of God and former moniker BURN THE PRIEST.

The venue, The Forum in Los Angeles, is owned by The Faithful Central Bible Church who decided to impose a ruling to ban Lamb Of God's performance at their venue.

Lamb of God have come off of several extremely successful headline runs through L.A. in the last year, so this move comes completely unexpected for the band and the tour as a whole. Los Angeles is and has always been a huge market for the band, building steadily with each one of their releases and tours as well as and exploding with the bands current CD, Ashes Of The Wake.

In deciding to ban Lamb Of God's performance, The Faithful Central Bible Church are imposing on the publics freedom of speech, choice and assembly; the bands art along with the bands ability to conduct commerce.

Drummer Chris Adler clearly states, "The "situation" in L.A. can only be described as ridiculous. It's already been a huge waste of energy trying to turn this around. The powers that be aren't interested budging - or doing their research apparently - and we've never been a band to placate anyone to get our way, smooth things over or make anyone feel better. They have made it clear that they don't want us because of our name, our show and our crowd - because of that ignorance, Lamb Of God is not being permitted to appear on the Subliminal Verses Concert in L.A. It's truly a shame for the show overall, especially for our friends and fans in L.A. that are being forced to miss our part of the show. Trust that this was not our decision, we'd love to kick some ass in L.A., but apparently the word from the powers that be is that Lamb Of God is not the wholesome family fun that the good people of Los Angeles deserve."

As previously reported, Lamb Of God’s official website (www.lamb-of-god.com) was recently updated with more West Coast and Midwest US dates for their upcoming tour. Most dates also feature SLIPKNOT, SHADOWS FALL and support.


The Church needs to quit its crying.

[AliceLover]

I mean are they religiously protesting against god or the church in any way?

Im sorry but this sounds really stupid to me. :shrug:


Jimmy

[estranged4life]

Well there's the thing. You havent seen censorship before, and you aren't seeing it now. Just the owners of the building decided..."I'm not to comfy with you guys playing at OUR venue."

I mean don't get me wrong you have every right to be angry because the band isn't going to play there. But I don't understand how its a censorship issue, that's all? They can still play at a different venue in the city...no?

what I have seen when it comes to CENSORSHIP? I tried buying albums in the past at Wal#$%&*^Mart to only be told "We don't carry that because it has curse words or objectional material and we cannot sell it unless it is censored".

I should be allowed to decide what is OBJECTIONAL or OBSCENE for myself, Not a bunch of uptight asshats, relig-a-tards, or the TIPPER GORE'S of the world (The REAL reason Al Gore NEVER got my vote in 2000!!!).

[estranged4life]

I mean are they religiously protesting against god or the church in any way?

Im sorry but this sounds really stupid to me. :shrug:


Jimmy

No, They (LOB) are not...Like I said banning LOB from playing but allowing Slipknot to play gives off to me a message of hypocrisy (Considering if ya have ever seen a Slipknot show in person, Which can be very violent & extreme...But nuthin' spectacular, Besides, Shadows Fall will blow 'em off the stage anyways!!!).

But that's alright, The bad BS from this church will work in LOB's favor, Cause as known in rock history "Any controversy is good controversy" (Ask Marilyn Manson...I'm not a fan nor ever been a fan, But I will give him credit for having relig-a-tards believing all the hype surrounding his shows and the supposed "Satanic worship" BS that was rumoured to happened at his shows which never did happen. Those SELF PLANTED HYPED rumours HOWEVER brought in a sold out crowd for more $$$$ in his bank account.)

[BTFLCHLD]

SLIPKNOT and the other bands scheduled to play should pull from this venue

they have four other cali dates at other venues

nobody goes to the forum anymore anyways...obv now why

staples center rocks :]

[estranged4life]

nobody goes to the forum anymore anyways...obv now why

staples center rocks :]

Staple Center is a much better facility from those I know who have seen concerts in LA...

As for the Forum, Place 200 tons of TNT inside, lite fuse and move away fast :lol:

[BTFLCHLD]

Staple Center is a much better facility from those I know who have seen concerts in LA...

As for the Forum, Place 200 tons of TNT inside, lite fuse and move away fast :lol:
:lol: :cool:
T.N.T. and I'll win the fight
T.N.T. I'm a power load
T.N.T. watch me explode!!!

yes, on staples...ive seen shows rafter and front row...and they equally rock...not many venues can say that ;)

[dissention]

Well there's the thing. You havent seen censorship before, and you aren't seeing it now. Just the owners of the building decided..."I'm not to comfy with you guys playing at OUR venue."

Yeah, Faux News certainly doesn't censor itself and the FCC doesn't censor it either, considering that they've aired graphic photos of full-on vaginal penetration.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

what I have seen when it comes to CENSORSHIP? I tried buying albums in the past at Wal#$%&*^Mart to only be told "We don't carry that because it has curse words or objectional material and we cannot sell it unless it is censored".

I should be allowed to decide what is OBJECTIONAL or OBSCENE for myself, Not a bunch of uptight asshats, relig-a-tards, or the TIPPER GORE'S of the world (The REAL reason Al Gore NEVER got my vote in 2000!!!).

Yea I understand that.

for example I didn't by Liz Phair's latest ablum because the versions at Wal-Mart had completley cut out one song (H.W.C)...but I think they are only trying to watch who is buying these CD's...Because alot of youth shop at Wal-Mart. But I agree with you on that.

[gldstwmn]

The venue, The Forum in Los Angeles, is owned by The Faithful Central Bible Church who decided to impose a ruling to ban Lamb Of God's performance at their venue.



Pardon the pun, but this is a blessing for them, really. It will only serve to make them more popular. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

A church can't own a venu? Why not?

Because the venue is for profit and the church is tax exempt, that's why. if they want to be for profit, then they need to pay taxes.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Because the venue is for profit and the church is tax exempt, that's why. if they want to be for profit, then they need to pay taxes.

Well then I guess a little reasearch would have to be done to figure out why this church is owning a venue then. Hopefully they wouldn't be doing it illegally!

[gldstwmn]

Well then I guess a little reasearch would have to be done to figure out why this church is owning a venue then.

Yes, please do research it and get back to me. :)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yes, please do research it and get back to me. :)

I'm not really all that involved in this issue or even familiar with the venue as the others seem to be, so I wouldn't know where to begin looking. But I think that this point would have already been brought up if they were owning the venue illegally? maybe I'm wrong.

[gldstwmn]

I'm not really all that involved in this issue or even familiar with the venue as the others seem to be, so I wouldn't know where to begin looking. But I think that this point would have already been brought up if they were owning the venue illegally? maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know. Why don't you Google it?

[seeker007nmss]

Because the venue is for profit and the church is tax exempt, that's why. if they want to be for profit, then they need to pay taxes.

Yup. I agree :nod: If they have a profit making venture then pay taxes. In fact, As Frank Zappa once said: "Tax ALL the churches". They could have used the money they used to buy the Forum to ...oh I don't know.....Maybe FEED the poor? MAybe, make a program to HELP THEIR FELLOW MAN.....Give it to me so I can hire Fleetwood mac to play in my apartment? (oops how did that slip in?) anyway you get the idea. I think ALL the churches should be taxed.

[amber]

How does a Bible Church have enough money to own a venue and why do they own a venue? Technically I think they can say who plays in their venue but then it gets scary because right wing rich wackos can just buy up venues and ban acts? Of course no one in this administration will do anything to support this band. I'm so effing pissed right now. Just give me another reason. Dammmittttt!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: :confused: :distress: :(
Oh, religion has TONS of money. You'd be hella suprised at what the Mormon church owns, for one example. I don't shop at Albertson's cause they own it.(at least, last I heard)
Yeah, no matter what religion says, they have beaucoup buckage. How do you think they got so powerful? :rolleyes: :mad: That's why it's so important for people who believe in things to put their money where their mouth is. Unfortunately, money does talk. In fact, I believe, in America, it's practically the only thing that does talk! :(
Yay, Capitalism! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

[EnchantedSLN]

Again, WHY DOES A CHURCH OWN A VENUE? This seems to be the real issue to me.

They have congregation there. One of the girls on my floor last year belonged to FCB.

[amber]

They have congregation there. One of the girls on my floor last year belonged to FCB.
Chanti - clear your PM's sometime. :)

[EnchantedSLN]

Chanti - clear your PM's sometime. :)

Sorry, spaz! It's clear now - try again.

[irishgrl]

you asked
How does a Bible Church have enough money to own a venue and why do they own a venue?
you'd be surprised what churches own. I know for a FACT the Mormon church owns stock in Coca Cola and Paramount. I think the short answer to your question is its a way to generate income for the Church. It costs money to keep a church going. What bothers me tho is the Church's being able to keep a non-profit status under those circumstances. I dont see how any money making/investment etc is seen as anything BUT profit.
btw: Brown eyes is right, its their venue and they can do what they want. They may have repercussions from this but I doubt it. They probably make a LOT of dough from those all male revivals that preach to men about being responsible for their families and teach men that they are the supreme head of the house...the name escapes me right now, but it was pretty big in the 90's...

[sunmaiden]

To be honest, I hate censorship, but when I first heard Lamb Of God's name, it offended me terribly. It is a stupid name anyway.

I do not like all those crappy bands- Marilyn Manson is just plain stupid. And Slipknot sucks. Give me some REAL hard rock music like some RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!! FU- to all those bands that think they have to piss the Church off just to sell some records. They need to get a life and some class.

The people who own the venue have every right to turn the band away. I would- they probably suck anyway!

:thumbsup: they can sit on it and spin

[Brwn_eyes0511]

To be honest, I hate censorship, but when I first heard Lamb Of God's name, it offended me terribly. It is a stupid name anyway.

I do not like all those crappy bands- Marilyn Manson is just plain stupid. And Slipknot sucks. Give me some REAL hard rock music like some RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!! FU- to all those bands that think they have to piss the Church off just to sell some records. They need to get a life and some class.

The people who own the venue have every right to turn the band away. I would- they probably suck anyway!

:thumbsup: they can sit on it and spin

Couldn't have said it better myself. :wavey:

[irishgrl]

Couldn't have said it better myself. :wavey:
Ill vouch for that! :laugh: :nod: :D :lol: :]

just funnin ya :woohoo:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Ill vouch for that! :laugh: :nod: :D :lol: :]

just funnin ya :woohoo:

Hey now! lol :laugh:

[estranged4life]

I do not like all those crappy bands- Marilyn Manson is just plain stupid. And Slipknot sucks. Give me some REAL hard rock music like some RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!! FU- to all those bands that think they have to piss the Church off just to sell some records. They need to get a life and some class.


were alright, too bad the singer's ego killed 'em off...RATM weren't my cup of tea (Not into the whole Nu-metal scene with rap/rock).

As for LOB (Who I do like musically) & Slipknot, Their, opening act on tour Shadows Fall will blow 'em both away!!!

[HomerMcvie]

Trust me, Gawd has all the money! When I occasionally do sound for a religious group (once or twice a year, and the church hires me), I charge at least DOUBLE what I would charge a R&R venue.
If I don't get to say f*ck for 8-10 hours, I must be compensated for censoring myself!
So these churches put on big, sellout shows, charging $25 a head. How is that NOT for profit? If these acts make $15,000 for a performance, how is that not for profit? Tax them all, because they've got all the money! Organized religion is bunk(no offense to any sheep). :wavey:

[DrummerDeanna]

you asked

you'd be surprised what churches own. I know for a FACT the Mormon church owns stock in Coca Cola and Paramount. I think the short answer to your question is its a way to generate income for the Church. It costs money to keep a church going. What bothers me tho is the Church's being able to keep a non-profit status under those circumstances. I dont see how any money making/investment etc is seen as anything BUT profit.
btw: Brown eyes is right, its their venue and they can do what they want. They may have repercussions from this but I doubt it. They probably make a LOT of dough from those all male revivals that preach to men about being responsible for their families and teach men that they are the supreme head of the house...the name escapes me right now, but it was pretty big in the 90's...


It's Pepsi the Mormon church either owns or has lots of stock in.....

[sparky]

Yup. I agree :nod: If they have a profit making venture then pay taxes. In fact, As Frank Zappa once said: "Tax ALL the churches". They could have used the money they used to buy the Forum to ...oh I don't know.....Maybe FEED the poor? MAybe, make a program to HELP THEIR FELLOW MAN.....Give it to me so I can hire Fleetwood mac to play in my apartment? (oops how did that slip in?) anyway you get the idea. I think ALL the churches should be taxed.

Of course all churches should be taxed. They never will be, simply because they own too many politicians. And of course they have money. Organized religion exists to build power, exert power, and amass money to further those ends. That's no secret. The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest entities on earth. Although that may change as they continue to pay off all the molestation victims they have pimped out over the years.
As long as people think they are making a down payment on their own personal stairways to heaven with their church contributions, that dynamic will never change.

[estranged4life]

think I'll start my own church (For those tax exemptions):

The Church of Bootlegs & Latter Day DVD-R's

Now where the hell are my tax breaks bitches? :lol:

[estranged4life]

As long as people think they are making a down payment on their own personal stairways to heaven with their church contributions, that dynamic will never change.

about what ya said...Makes me think of a particular song:

"Leper Messiah"-Metallica (From the AWESOME "Master Of Puppets" release)

"Spineless from the start, sucked into the part
Circus comes to town, you play the lead clown

Please, please
Spreading his disease, living by his story
Knees, knees
Falling to your knees, suffer for his glory
You will

Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat
Bow to Leper Messiah

Marvel at his tricks, need your Sunday fix
Blind devotion came, rotting your brain
Chain, chain
Join the endless chain
Fame, Fame
Infection is the game, stinking drunk with power
We see

Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat
Bow to Leper Messiah

Witchery, weakening
Sees the sheep are gathering
Set the trap, hypnotise
Now you follow

Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat

Lie"

[irishgrl]

It's Pepsi the Mormon church either owns or has lots of stock in.....

you got that wrong, its Coca Cola. My father was mid level management at Coke for years and he told me. Btw, he was also Mormon. Do a background check of the shareholders of Coke, you'll see. Pepsi was once owned by Joan mommy dearest Crawford's husband.

edit: ok I did a search and here's what I found:
this info was from a Mormon FAQ site...

There's a common urban legend that has it that the Mormon church owns the Coca Cola company. A less common variant has it that the church owns the Pepsi Cola company. Both are false.

(NOTE: I am not saying the Church OWNS Coke, I am saying it owns STOCK in Coke. the very last sentence allows this "may be true" which is much different than the disavowal of Pepsi ownership)


Since PepsiCo, Inc. is a public company, anyone is welcome to buy shares in its stock. Theoretically, that could mean that there are some members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who own shares in PepsiCo, Inc., and ultimately own a portion of the company.

I have not seen an official statement—from the Church or otherwise—that says the Church itself owns shares in PepsiCo, Inc.


Coca-Cola Company is far too sizeable a business entity for any one person or group to own, even if that group were Bill Gates and Kerry Packer. Big Red is a publicly traded company (New York Stock Exchange ticker symbol KO), with 15% of the shares held by insiders (former and current executives plus the families of those who built up the company) and 9% by SunTrust Bank. The remaining 76% of the company is owned by various and sundry institutional and individual investors, some of whom may indeed be Mormon. you bet yer sweet bippy!

(NOTE: the above as taken from a FAQ website by a privat party. the info below is from an actual LDS website:)
LDS member named to oversight committe for Coke (http://www.mormonstoday.com/010706/B2TBurns01.shtml)
ATLANTA, GEORGIA -- M. Anthony Burns, an LDS Church member and chairman of Ryder Systems, has been named to an oversight task force that will ensure Coca-Cola Co. compliance with a racial discrimination lawsuit settlement. Burns will serve a four-year term as one of seven members of the task force, which will issue annual reports to Coke, the court and the plaintiffs in the lawsuit. He resigned last November as CEO of Ryder Systems, but remains the company's Chairman.
I find it interesting that an LDS member is named to an oversight task force for Coke! Kinda like the Fox guarding the hen house!

edit: after an exhaustive search Im having a hard time finding any definitive info and so Im afraid Ill just have to rely on what my dad the Coke exec had to say..............but Ill be honest, Im a bit curious now.

[sunmaiden]

Of course all churches should be taxed. They never will be, simply because they own too many politicians. And of course they have money. Organized religion exists to build power, exert power, and amass money to further those ends. That's no secret. The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest entities on earth. Although that may change as they continue to pay off all the molestation victims they have pimped out over the years.
As long as people think they are making a down payment on their own personal stairways to heaven with their church contributions, that dynamic will never change.


You are lumping us all together. We're not all the same people. I give to the Church and to many other charities, and not to buy my way into heaven! And it's not like I am rich. I give charity to whomever whenever I can.

There are a lot of people who need to practice what they preach...tolerance...

[sparky]

You are lumping us all together. We're not all the same people. I give to the Church and to many other charities, and not to buy my way into heaven! And it's not like I am rich. I give charity to whomever whenever I can.

There are a lot of people who need to practice what they preach...tolerance...


I certainly don't think everyone who contributes money to a church looks at the money they give as buying their way into heaven. However, many churches, and certainly the bulk of televangelists focus primarily on the money they can raise. It's all about lavish buildings and garish spectacle. Ever seen the Crystal Cathedral ? In my experience, the subtext of those messages about donations is definitely that you are "getting in the good graces" of the establishment by coughing up lots of cash. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say there are plenty of people who think that the more they give, the better the balance book looks on some faraway judgement day. There are many older people who are lonely and scared who fall right into this kind of thinking. Not everyone, but lots.

And by the way, I am tolerant as all get out. Even though I don't recall ever preaching about that. But I also don't pull any punches when it comes to expressing my opinions. :wavey:

[irishgrl]

I think it is heinous the way those televangelists prey on older people. I dont think it is so much that they are buying their way into heaven as they are supporting a cause, I dont know for sure, but I think they get some sort of token "gift" like a book or something for their "donation" but older folks who can feel their mortality creeping (running?) up on them tend to focus on their relationship with God and many DO go overboard in an attempt to make up for slack times when they were younger.

The sad thing is, their hard earned cash (or dearly parted with pension or ssi payments) is not put to worthy use, but rather the further buildup of the televangelistic ministry. Many of those organizations have been found to be corrupt, the front men driving fancy cars, living in estates with pools and tennis courts all bought and paid for with those poor souls' money....It is just a shame.

[estranged4life]

I think it is heinous the way those televangelists prey on older people. I dont think it is so much that they are buying their way into heaven as they are supporting a cause, I dont know for sure, but I think they get some sort of token "gift" like a book or something for their "donation" but older folks who can feel their mortality creeping (running?) up on them tend to focus on their relationship with God and many DO go overboard in an attempt to make up for slack times when they were younger.

The sad thing is, their hard earned cash (or dearly parted with pension or ssi payments) is not put to worthy use, but rather the further buildup of the televangelistic ministry. Many of those organizations have been found to be corrupt, the front men driving fancy cars, living in estates with pools and tennis courts all bought and paid for with those poor souls' money....It is just a shame.

when I read your post.

Robert Tilton used to be a big nationally known Tulsa based (con-artist) televangelist, Who preyed exclusively on the elderly. He would get up on his pulpit and nearly BEG the elderly to send him money, In exchange for payments of over $100 a month (Or you could just send $$$$ in via snail-mail and he would pray over envelope), He would prey for your soul, Your loved one's illness, etc. and it was disgusting to see how many fell for it.

Tilton was making over a million dollars, every few months via his 'televangelism' and without a care that the $$$$ being sent in might be the only money the elderly had left.

I loved when his 'kingdom' came crashing down though, It started innocently with an elderly woman who wanted Tilton to pray for her sick/dying husband...Which Tilton did, For $100 a month. But a problem arose when workers at the Bank, where the elderly woman did business, discovered that her account was being hit for that monthly $100 amount SIX MONTHS after her husband had already passed from this life! So when the Bank called local investigators to explain this major problem with how this elderly woman's bank account was nearly wiped out by "Tilton Ministries", they (Tulsa Police dept) finally had a ossible clue they were longing for, After a lengthy investigation into how Tilton was possibly running his 'con' and past reports of saying he has done this 'con' time-and-time again.

Tilton & his money grubbing/lusting flock of morons tried to deny any wrong doing, and said the money received was legally retained in exchanged for being blessed, and that each letter (Received with $$$$) was personally blessed by Rev.Tilton himself...But that was to be found not true (Keep readin' it gets interestin')

The investigators soon discovered that the address for letters with money that were to be sent to Tilton's "ministries" was instead being forwarded to a local bank, Where they proved that he never blessed anything when they discovered letter-after-letter that those elderly folk sent to him to be blessed, Still in their original envelopes folded up & never read, Only missing the money and worse of all was the letters were found in the dumpster behind the Bank!!

A Bank teller was questioned about the letters found in the trash, And she said that she was instructed by the person who wanted the letters forwarded to the Bank to remove ANY $$$$ from the letters and to dispose of the letters immediately after removing the money, That she was not to read the letters what-so-ever...That person (Who she later identified) was Robert Tilton! Among the letter's discovered in the trash bin, Was a letter from the elderly woman asking why she was still being requested to send $100 a month for her husband even though he had already passed away months earlier.

His jig was up and he was FINALLY busted and later sent to prison after being found guilty of mail fraud (Among other things). After a bit of time had gone by he played the overused 'con' of "I found religion and God will forgive me" ruse which is popular among convicts in prison. Last I heard is that he is starting to do the whole tele-evangelist BS again...

I lived in Tulsa for a few years as I attended Tech School...I would never live there EVER again, There's a church on EVERY street corner of Tulsa, Matter-of-fact, according to an TV news segment about Robert Tilton's downfall, Tulsa has the highest amount of churches per capita of ANY city in the United States of America!

Let's put it like this, Have you ever had an extremely attractive person of the opposite sex, flirt with you endlessly, Taking "NO for an answer" to only find out this person was just flirting with you to get you to attend her church because that's was asked of her by those running the church? I have...And in Tulsa that is no frikkin' surprise to me :mad: